Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York
Speaker 1: and Ed Lovelow in sentrancs go.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up, AI and crypto anxiety.
Speaker 2: It sends stocks on a wild ride amid volatile trading.
Speaker 3: Will have the details.
Speaker 2: This is Open AI teams up with fox Conn design
Speaker 2: AI data center hardware in the United States, and we
Speaker 2: speak with the CEO of Cerebrus about the US's approval
Speaker 2: of selling advanced AI chips to the Middle East. All
Speaker 2: of this coming in the context of deepening market anxiety.
Speaker 2: After we are whip swored time and time again, let's
Speaker 2: just check out what's happened on the markets over the
Speaker 2: course of the five trading days. What a week it
Speaker 2: has been. It is off by four percent for the Nasdaq.
Speaker 2: This is the worst week we seen for the Nasdaq
Speaker 2: one hundred April since, of course, the first concerns about
Speaker 2: trade tariffs came into the market. We are seeing significant
Speaker 2: pressure on some of your biggest AI winners. Let's move
Speaker 2: on and see how some of the nazdac key Points
Speaker 2: contributors are doing on this day in Vidio off by
Speaker 2: two point seven percent and Video is now down eight
Speaker 2: percent over the course of five training days, but Oracle
Speaker 2: on course for its worst week since March twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: The AI bubble anxiety continues, and we want to dig
Speaker 2: into all of that and the market reaction this week
Speaker 2: with bluem egxecut's reporter Carmen Rhinikey, who has been across
Speaker 2: the story day in day out. Carmen, why are we
Speaker 2: seeing this ongoing pressure on some of the biggest winners.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really interesting, and like what a week it's been, right,
Speaker 4: you know, we have in Video with this blowout innings
Speaker 4: report and then two down days immediately following it. Really,
Speaker 4: what it seems to be happening is there are so
Speaker 4: many macro pressures on the market right now that that's
Speaker 4: adding a lot of weight and dragging down the major indexes.
Speaker 5: But at the same time we're seeing.
Speaker 4: That in Video's report, as good as it was, wasn't
Speaker 4: enough to quell some of these overall AI fears, right,
Speaker 4: and so we're seeing a sell off. We're seeing very
Speaker 4: risk off mentality in.
Speaker 5: The markets right now.
Speaker 4: And one thing that has been kind of interesting is
Speaker 4: looking at the stocks that are up today, we're actually
Speaker 4: seeing Apple outperform and it usually has lately sort of
Speaker 4: been opposite of these big AI names because it doesn't
Speaker 4: have a huge AI piece of the puzzle. And then
Speaker 4: we're also seeing Google up, which is still really big
Speaker 4: optimism after Gemini three. So it's just interesting to see
Speaker 4: a little bit of the split that's happening there in
Speaker 4: the market.
Speaker 2: And much of this, of course has been built into
Speaker 2: the worry about yes in Nvidia has the demand people
Speaker 2: starting to dig into account's receivable into inventory.
Speaker 3: But that felt like a bizarre.
Speaker 2: To try and in retrospect understand why we were seeing
Speaker 2: a sell off rather than seeing that and then seeing
Speaker 2: a stock sell off.
Speaker 3: So can you talk to us about how things are
Speaker 3: happening in timing wise?
Speaker 5: The timing has.
Speaker 4: Been so interesting, and I think you're totally right that
Speaker 4: we you know, I speak to a lot of investors
Speaker 4: and people were sort of pulling on different things, but
Speaker 4: there was no real, like smoking gun, great answer as
Speaker 4: to why you know, we were seeing this sell off.
Speaker 4: But we have been seeing the market sort of react
Speaker 4: more to things around a fed cut. If there's going
Speaker 4: to be a great cut in December. So this morning,
Speaker 4: you know, it looked like things were kind of positive,
Speaker 4: and then around the Williams comments, but then you know,
Speaker 4: we get you mish out, and so it just seems
Speaker 4: like there's a ton of macro and that is really
Speaker 4: what's moving the market.
Speaker 2: I think one discourse that has been throughout is debt
Speaker 2: and debt particularly among players like Core Weave in the
Speaker 2: Neo clouds, but Oracle in particular, the CDs.
Speaker 3: The credit to fault swaps of Oracle have become.
Speaker 2: Almost like a way in which we show anxiety in
Speaker 2: the great debt parlor of certain companies.
Speaker 3: Is it rational? No one thinks.
Speaker 2: Oracle is suddenly going to default, but it is being
Speaker 2: used as some sort of hedge here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I mean the stock is just comped,
Speaker 4: completely fallen off. You know, it had that huge jump
Speaker 4: and then we've erased all of that. And the debt
Speaker 4: question is a really big thing on investors' minds, and
Speaker 4: I think it really plays into the fears of the
Speaker 4: AI bubble or the debate around it being a bubble,
Speaker 4: because if these companies start loading up on debt, there's
Speaker 4: the potential that it could they could become over lever
Speaker 4: that could be a bigger issue down the line. And
Speaker 4: you know, with everything as circular as it is, even
Speaker 4: though these companies keep addressing it, you know, Jensen spoke
Speaker 4: about it in videos calls. Investors are just not convinced yet.
Speaker 4: You know, they're just seeing the house of cards. They're
Speaker 4: worried about it.
Speaker 2: They need to see the return on aiblu most common.
Speaker 2: Rhinochy has been across this story. Have a feeling she'll
Speaker 2: continue to be, so we thank her. Let's turn to
Speaker 2: the world of digital currencies.
Speaker 3: There's volatility there too.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin on track for its worst month since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: Look how much it shed twenty five percent of its
Speaker 2: value in November alone.
Speaker 3: It's not just bitcoin though, According to data from coin.
Speaker 2: Gecko, the total market value for virtual coins below three
Speaker 2: trillion dollars the first time since April.
Speaker 3: James Siefert is with us Bluemeg Intelligence.
Speaker 2: You cover alternative investments and talk us through some of
Speaker 2: the selling pressure. You look at it particularly from the
Speaker 2: ETF lens, but more broadly, is it institutional money that's
Speaker 2: stepping away ever since that big sell off leverage wash
Speaker 2: out in October?
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I absolutely think this is still hangovers a
Speaker 6: little bit from that October tenth sellout that you just mentioned.
Speaker 6: There's no way to know for sure it's institutional or retail,
Speaker 6: but there's some big sellers out there. And what I
Speaker 6: would say is the ETFs have mostly held strong. I
Speaker 6: mean we as on a percentage basis. The amount of
Speaker 6: outflows we saw from the ets was way bigger. In April,
Speaker 6: it was about six billion that came out. Right now
Speaker 6: we're about five point three five point four billion that
Speaker 6: have come out of the ETFs, but it's from a
Speaker 6: much higher base, so the percentage basis is way smaller,
Speaker 6: So most of the selling is happening from, you know,
Speaker 6: the actual spot crypto markets. A lot of people like
Speaker 6: to look at the ETFs and they think like, oh,
Speaker 6: they're causing this problem or they're exacerbating things, but really
Speaker 6: they're just a piece of the pie. And right now,
Speaker 6: like I said, it's only about five point three billion
Speaker 6: that have come out of the ETFs the US spot products,
Speaker 6: So for most of this is happening actually to the
Speaker 6: coins directly.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that many who have been in this space
Speaker 2: for a very long time don't see this as a
Speaker 2: particularly anxiety inducing moment because they've seen sell off some
Speaker 2: pressure before.
Speaker 3: It's a volatile asset class.
Speaker 2: But when you say exacerbating the situation, how much a
Speaker 2: digital asset treasuries exacerbating the situation. The sudden move we
Speaker 2: saw for companies to put digital assets on their balance sheet.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I absolutely do think that the dats are
Speaker 6: exacerbating things here. So right, I think they were a
Speaker 6: bit of a flywheel on the way up right, they
Speaker 6: were trading at a bit of a premium. They're issuing
Speaker 6: stock to buy the underlying currencies. They were issuing debt,
Speaker 6: preferred stock and vertible debt to buy the underlying currencies.
Speaker 6: And when they're trading at a premium, that's spinning in
Speaker 6: one direction. Right now, things are spinning the opps direction.
Speaker 6: There are some dats out there that are selling underlying
Speaker 6: assets we know, with some ethereum ones and things along
Speaker 6: those lines. So I think this is And then also
Speaker 6: there's a lot of traders out there that are doing
Speaker 6: things or they're hedging the underlying asset and hedging against
Speaker 6: the actual DAT company themselves, So that whole interaction is
Speaker 6: definitely kind of spinning the opposite direction of the way.
Speaker 7: It's been spinning for the last few months.
Speaker 6: And then also there's a lot of concerns about quantum
Speaker 6: computing from there's a blogger who everyone kind of respects
Speaker 6: in the space has moved up his timelines, and a
Speaker 6: lot of people like to say it's fun, it's not
Speaker 6: real concern, but people are starting to take the seriously,
Speaker 6: including the leader and founder of Ethereum Metallic. So I
Speaker 6: think there's a whole bunch of things here that are compounding.
Speaker 7: Obviously you just spoke about it.
Speaker 6: There's a bunch of risk off in AI names and
Speaker 6: just equity risk assets in general. And then I think
Speaker 6: also maybe this might be we often see a bit
Speaker 6: of selling around this time of year, maybe into December,
Speaker 6: particularly DTS for tax loss harvesting.
Speaker 7: Maybe that's being pulled forward a little bit.
Speaker 3: That's interesting. What I want to go back to is
Speaker 3: the quantum side of the equation.
Speaker 2: Look, we know that the dat situation digital asset treasuries
Speaker 2: has been a case in point is Michael Saylor and
Speaker 2: what he did with strategy, and people worrying that maybe
Speaker 2: that even falls out some of the key benchmarks and
Speaker 2: that adds to the selling pressure. But quantum is more
Speaker 2: about cryptography and how that might be broken. Briefly, James,
Speaker 2: is that what people are worrying about?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I won't pretend to be an expert
Speaker 6: on quantum cryptography or cryptography in general, but essentially the
Speaker 6: concern is that that quantum computing would be able to
Speaker 6: hack the encryptions that basically keep you know, Bitcoin and
Speaker 6: other cryptocurrency safe. There are you know, quantum resistant cryptographies
Speaker 6: that can be used and are planned to be used
Speaker 6: in other cryptocurrencies and even proposals for bitcoin, but they're
Speaker 6: not instituted yet. So the concern is is this going
Speaker 6: to happen faster than most people are expecting, But the
Speaker 6: industry is on top of it. It's just, you know,
Speaker 6: it's a genuine concern at this point as far as
Speaker 6: I'm concerned.
Speaker 2: As you say, hashtag fud fear, uncertainty, doubt. Haven't had
Speaker 2: that acronym in a little while. James Siefert of Bloembag Intelligence,
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for breaking things down. Let's get an
Speaker 2: investor perspective for you now. Eric Bailey, Executive Managing director
Speaker 2: of the Bailey Group at Stewart Partners, joins us now
Speaker 2: and fun Fear uncertainty, doubt is that what is ripping through.
Speaker 8: The markets clearly, Yeah, yesterday was certainly eye opening with
Speaker 8: the action and the markets, and it shows investors are nervous.
Speaker 8: We've seen it pretty much this whole month, and then
Speaker 8: yesterday really really was clear that this sell off has
Speaker 8: more legs and big parts of the market are in
Speaker 8: a correction. In Nvidia now down seventeen percent from its high.
Speaker 8: You were talking earlier about Oracle that's down forty percent,
Speaker 8: and you're seeing investors are getting more defensive. You're seeing
Speaker 8: sectors like utilities, pharmaceuticals outperforming the growth parts of the market,
Speaker 8: and so this could continue. Right as we get through
Speaker 8: the end of the year. You do see rebalancing, tax selling,
Speaker 8: and that could continue as we need a little more clarity,
Speaker 8: a little more confidence to come into the market to
Speaker 8: get the growth trade back back heading up.
Speaker 3: What more clarity could you wish for?
Speaker 2: We got a retotive amount of clarity coming from the
Speaker 2: world's most valuable company, Jensen Wong doing his best to
Speaker 2: try and make clear the our line of sight he
Speaker 2: has on future revenues. People questioning maybe the inventory build
Speaker 2: up now. But we did get a lot of tangible
Speaker 2: evidence there. We had people such as Michael Burry saying
Speaker 2: who are the auditors on open AI? And yes, there
Speaker 2: was a lot of anxiety in the private markets, but
Speaker 2: many have pushed back on that sort of concern.
Speaker 3: What charentage do you want to see?
Speaker 7: Eric?
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, you bring up great points. I think, right
Speaker 8: it's a valuation issue and right now investors are weighing
Speaker 8: what's the value of these names. They're not clearly sold
Speaker 8: that the growth can continue, even though you look at
Speaker 8: the analyst community, you look at Nvidia, the average price
Speaker 8: target is two hundred and fifty. That's a thirty plus
Speaker 8: percent move from these levels, so you would think at
Speaker 8: these prices it's pretty attractive. So a lot of this is, again,
Speaker 8: you know, just market reaction going through kind of a
Speaker 8: correction phase. And I think the buyers will come back in.
Speaker 8: It's always unclear when and what levels, but I do
Speaker 8: see the buying coming back into the markets.
Speaker 2: Is an element of catch affording life. But is the
Speaker 2: FED the key question? So are indeed cut in December?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 8: The FED adds a level of confidence to investors, and
Speaker 8: investors clearly want to see the FED is taking action
Speaker 8: that's positive for the economy, and that right now is
Speaker 8: clearly with rate cuts, and so a rate cut would
Speaker 8: in my view, bringing confidence to the markets and should
Speaker 8: help equities, especially growth equities. Growth equities typically do well
Speaker 8: as rates come down, and so that would be a
Speaker 8: big boost next month.
Speaker 2: Some of these particular numbers that I relate to on
Speaker 2: a weekly basis do look really ugly, as I say,
Speaker 2: now's that worst week since April video, worst week since
Speaker 2: about April, and you see a similar thing for Oracle,
Speaker 2: worst week in fact since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: But looking at a year to.
Speaker 2: Date basis, we're still in a pretty great spot, right Eric.
Speaker 8: Oh, absolutely yeah. I mean the SMP is still up
Speaker 8: north of ten percent. Overseas markets have had an incredible
Speaker 8: year up you know, across the board, north of twenty percent.
Speaker 8: So investors, right, they have to step back and be
Speaker 8: patient and be calm and actually look at these selloffs
Speaker 8: as an opportunity because this is where you can make
Speaker 8: solid returns right by great companies at lower levels. I mean,
Speaker 8: that's the key to investing and not panicking and not
Speaker 8: selling when everyone else is selling and take losses and
Speaker 8: hurt yourself long term.
Speaker 2: Eric, your thesis with AI do you think it's a
Speaker 2: bubble or do you think this is a sort of
Speaker 2: capital expenditure that's necessary to read the productivity in the future.
Speaker 8: You know, the numbers you're seeing committed to this space
Speaker 8: is certainly eye opening and nervous, and it seems like
Speaker 8: it's a few of the big, you know, massive players
Speaker 8: in that space, and so it does bring concern. On
Speaker 8: the other hand, without a doubt with with these earnings
Speaker 8: results we've seen, you know, just from Nvidia and you
Speaker 8: saw from Alphabet and the strength there clearly AI you
Speaker 8: have to be invested in it a long term. It's
Speaker 8: the growth Benjim. And so if you want growth, AI
Speaker 8: is the place you want to be.
Speaker 3: Alphabet at a new record high today.
Speaker 2: Bailey of the Bailey Group at Steward Partners, thanks for
Speaker 2: your time, Happy weekend. Coming up open AI Well, it's
Speaker 2: partnering up with Honhai also known as Boxcon to design
Speaker 2: AI data sent to hardware in the United States. Details
Speaker 2: next this is Brumberg Tech.
Speaker 10: To keep pushing the frontier. We need to build these
Speaker 10: new types of AI infrastructure hardware at scale, and I'm
Speaker 10: excited for that to happen in the US and with
Speaker 10: Fox con. Fox Cohn's experience building complex infrastructure and hardware
Speaker 10: at massive scale makes them the ideal partner for this,
Speaker 10: and I'm looking forward to exploring together what this can
Speaker 10: look like. We'll share insight into emerging hardware needs across
Speaker 10: the AI industry, and Foxcom will use that to design
Speaker 10: and prototype new equipment that can be manufactured in America.
Speaker 2: Open Ai CEO Sam Altman joining fox Con also known
Speaker 2: as hon Hi Tech Day in Taipei remotely to weigh
Speaker 2: in on the company's partnership with of course fox Gone
Speaker 2: to design AI data center hardware in the United States.
Speaker 11: Look.
Speaker 2: Under the partnership, fots GONE will co design and develop
Speaker 2: data center server racks with open AI and work to
Speaker 2: ensure such racks can be manufactured across the United States
Speaker 2: look blomeg Texts and Animel Drowders. She caught up with
Speaker 2: Honhaigh chairman Jong Nu to discuss the plan and his
Speaker 2: goal for scaling up compute capacity.
Speaker 12: Take a listen, the giga wand per week will be
Speaker 12: the goal.
Speaker 3: Okay, one giga wa per week.
Speaker 12: That would be SINS goal. But we can start with
Speaker 12: one giga wand per.
Speaker 13: Month, So you think you can add one gigawat per
Speaker 13: month next.
Speaker 12: Yeah, studying next the second half of the year.
Speaker 13: Second half of the year, So you think you can
Speaker 13: add six gigawats next year?
Speaker 12: Sure, it really depends on our starting on our new
Speaker 12: way of doing things. It takes time, but eventually we're
Speaker 12: going to get there.
Speaker 13: Let's talk about then, this opportunity in the US, because
Speaker 13: as you said, the part of this is about making America.
Speaker 13: It is very ambitious. What's the capex that you need
Speaker 13: to also dedicate to the States.
Speaker 12: The kpex wise is in maybe one to five billion
Speaker 12: to star wars to build the factories, to build on
Speaker 12: these centers, but to build the working capital required to
Speaker 12: build the data center, that's totally different. That requires a
Speaker 12: huge amount of money. Yeah, and with that we are
Speaker 12: going to work with sol Bank.
Speaker 13: What are the biggest challenges with scaling up.
Speaker 5: In the US?
Speaker 12: Shortage of labor, as I mentioned, is not labor. Cast
Speaker 12: is a charge donation labor.
Speaker 3: How do you get around that?
Speaker 13: What are the conversations like and what are the biggest
Speaker 13: shortfalls that you see?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 12: We had to work closely with schools and the government,
Speaker 12: which we were very familiar When we build our factories,
Speaker 12: all over the world. We had to work with local
Speaker 12: agencies or local government to get their people ready for
Speaker 12: the kind of a job that we we require.
Speaker 2: Hon High Chairman Young New there with our own Annabelle Drulers,
Speaker 2: let's break down that agreement between open AI and Honhai
Speaker 2: Neuberg's AI. Sir Seth Fiegermann is here. It's interesting timing
Speaker 2: giving the anxiety around capital expenditure, and we're hearing about
Speaker 2: how Honhaig is using SoftBank perhaps for some of that
Speaker 2: capital expenditure and investment.
Speaker 3: Seth, but there.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem to be any purchase agreements here, right.
Speaker 14: That's right, We really don't have any numbers here. I
Speaker 14: mean it is a testament to the scale of a
Speaker 14: Bonnie's ambition in particular on the infrastructure front, as well
Speaker 14: as fox CON's desire to diversify away from its reliance
Speaker 14: on Apple and really gain momentum on the AI. But
Speaker 14: I think stepping back from it, the really important to
Speaker 14: take away, apart from a lot of the record around
Speaker 14: what it means for US manufacturing, is what it means
Speaker 14: for open AI as it tries to not just move
Speaker 14: faster on the infrastructure front, even in the face of
Speaker 14: anxiety about AI spending, but also begin to build more
Speaker 14: of remote or competitive advantage on the infrastructure side. We
Speaker 14: talk a lot on the show and elsewhere about you know,
Speaker 14: how much and how quickly am models are being commodetized,
Speaker 14: and whether the compective advantage there. But I think what
Speaker 14: you've seen all Menualpennie I do is try to get
Speaker 14: certain more ownership over the supply chain for data center
Speaker 14: build out and chips in a way they could give
Speaker 14: it a different kind of competitive advantage and lower costs
Speaker 14: in the long term.
Speaker 2: Again, it's a foreign company investing in the United States.
Speaker 2: One to five billion dollars is what they're thinking is
Speaker 2: spending to grow fox CON's US manufacturing footprint. But here
Speaker 2: this seems to be about the understanding of inefficiencies within
Speaker 2: data centers, right, what can go wrong, and how open
Speaker 2: AI can lend a hand on telling them that that's right.
Speaker 14: I mean, look, most people are probably more consumed by
Speaker 14: thinking about the models that we use in the chatbots,
Speaker 14: but they're talking about a lot of the key components
Speaker 14: that go into setting up and operating data centers, from
Speaker 14: the data center server racks, to cooling and power equipment
Speaker 14: to the cabling. These are not the sexiest things, but
Speaker 14: they're essential as trying to build out a massive scale
Speaker 14: of data centers here and abroad.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, open Ai is trying to field a ton of
Speaker 2: questions right now. They are of course under some duress
Speaker 2: about how they're raising funds in and of themselves to
Speaker 2: spend on all the data center build out. You had
Speaker 2: Michael Burry like questioning auditors, and it seems as though
Speaker 2: they've got some clarity from that and ft reporting set
Speaker 2: But how much pressure is Sam Altman and team feeling.
Speaker 3: At this moment.
Speaker 14: Immense And we're gonna given mentioning what they feel from
Speaker 14: Google now, which seems to have built a model though
Speaker 14: either rivals or outcompetes anything. They're opening eye paralize on
Speaker 14: the market, which gets back to again, they want have
Speaker 14: a competitive advantage not just on the model side, but
Speaker 14: on the infrastructure that supports it. And increasingly they're tying
Speaker 14: themselves to all different corners of the market and all
Speaker 14: different key players and tech to make it they're too
Speaker 14: big to fail.
Speaker 2: Seth Figerman. Yeah, great context, thanks for bringing it. Happy
Speaker 2: weekend shares of Ubisoft. They're climbing today in Paris as
Speaker 2: Trading resumed up to week long suspension for the gaming
Speaker 2: company Look. It had delayed its second quarter results after
Speaker 2: auditors found it improperly recorded revenue from a partnership who
Speaker 2: was soft helped reassure investors today by saying it will
Speaker 2: pay off debts with funds from an investment it received
Speaker 2: earlier this year from ten Cent Holdings. Meanwhile, Meta is
Speaker 2: making a big.
Speaker 3: Push into AI.
Speaker 2: We know that, and to assist in that expansion, the
Speaker 2: social media giant is actually adding another business to its portfolio,
Speaker 2: Power Trading, hoping to help plant developers by committing to
Speaker 2: long term energy contracts who most Wiley Griffin covers Meta
Speaker 2: extraordinaries story. The amount of diversification these companies are having
Speaker 2: to do to fulfill the energy and requirements for data centers.
Speaker 15: It truly is amazing, and it comes back to this
Speaker 15: idea that Mark Zuckerberg has pitched as front loading capacity,
Speaker 15: bringing on the energy they anticipate, the compute they anticipate
Speaker 15: for that big day that they are gunning towards, which
Speaker 15: is the idea of super intelligence. But in the interim
Speaker 15: you Meta anticipates a lot more energy needed and so
Speaker 15: it is going to enter this power trading market in
Speaker 15: an effort to ensure that long term capacity.
Speaker 2: There was a great interview you did with ov Perek,
Speaker 2: who is heading up Electricity Trading or META. Why is
Speaker 2: she indicating this move and what ultimately is she thinking
Speaker 2: about doing to build this out.
Speaker 15: Yeah, so she said that too few buyers are willing
Speaker 15: to commit to long term electricity contracts that would justify
Speaker 15: building new power plants. So, really, the AI demands are
Speaker 15: clashing with the demands of the grid and META is
Speaker 15: taking matters into its own hands here by becoming a
Speaker 15: power trader. It would essentially lock in these long term
Speaker 15: deals to support its AI ambitions.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that sudden analysts out there, you talk to
Speaker 2: the managed to direct to a power modeling from Habitat
Speaker 2: saying that this is actually a natural extension of tech
Speaker 2: companies investors understanding that that we're all going to become
Speaker 2: basic infrastructure companies, energy companies, raised in companies too.
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's a kind of managing a risk that we've
Speaker 15: seen in other industries. It allows you to lock in
Speaker 15: energy and then if you have too much, you can.
Speaker 16: Ultimately sell it back. And Meta is not alone here.
Speaker 15: So we've seen Apple, Microsoft, other big players make this
Speaker 15: attempt to so Meta isn't alone, and I think that's
Speaker 15: a reassuring thing to investors. The other very interesting comment
Speaker 15: you heard from Mark Zuckerberg on the last quarterly earnings
Speaker 15: call was that they're thinking about managing that kind of
Speaker 15: risk when it.
Speaker 16: Comes to excess compute as well.
Speaker 15: So we're watching closely to see if they make any
Speaker 15: moves to diversify into.
Speaker 16: That API business, that cloud business, to sell that too.
Speaker 2: Look, everyone's a hyperscaler, everyone's a cloud provider. Now everyone's
Speaker 2: an energy trader too. Bloomberg's Riley Griffin. Fascinating, Thank you
Speaker 2: very much, indeed, welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 3: Let's check in on these markets.
Speaker 2: Let's give you what we did for the week, because
Speaker 2: it's been under pressure for the course of the week.
Speaker 2: On the day then AzaC is actually trading higher. We're
Speaker 2: up about a tenth of a percent on the course
Speaker 2: of the week, though we are lower to the tune
Speaker 2: of three percent. Let's call it the worst week since April,
Speaker 2: since the real torrid anxiety around trade tariffs really hit
Speaker 2: the market. We look at individual movers and when you're
Speaker 2: thinking under the hood, which are the key players have
Speaker 2: been dragged to the downside. Today is a day of
Speaker 2: volatility as we think about what the Fed does in
Speaker 2: December on the week's anxiety of AI bubble or not,
Speaker 2: about whether we can afford the capital expenditures.
Speaker 3: And video is off by nine tens percent.
Speaker 2: Again after stellar numbers, after more than sixty percent grow
Speaker 2: in terms of revenue yesterday for the fiscal quarter just gone,
Speaker 2: and pointing to the fiscal quarter to come. And yet
Speaker 2: that line of sight on half a trillion dollars worth
Speaker 2: of revenue not enough to cool market anxieties.
Speaker 3: Instead, we're talking about accounts, receivables, what they're owed by
Speaker 3: their customers.
Speaker 2: What are the owed bi oracle, What is the oracle
Speaker 2: having to do in terms of debt issuance. That's what
Speaker 2: the market is questioning. We're off by six percent. It's
Speaker 2: having its worst week since March twenty eighteen. We're off
Speaker 2: by six percent on the day. Let's talk about all
Speaker 2: of this, the big tech binge on debt, that's what
Speaker 2: people are talking about. While in the absence of a
Speaker 2: leverage underpinning the AI build out has long been used
Speaker 2: to dismiss bubble concerns, but there has since been a
Speaker 2: bit of an uptick in borrowing and it's starting to
Speaker 2: change the narrative. Your most tech equity reporter around, Valastelica
Speaker 2: is here and look, we're not talking that Alphabet or
Speaker 2: Amazon or Microsoft are suddenly gonna go broke. Here they
Speaker 2: have huge cash on hand. But why are Oracle CDs
Speaker 2: in the line of fire?
Speaker 7: Hey, good morning, thanks for having me.
Speaker 9: So yeah, Oracle is really sort of the focus when
Speaker 9: people are starting to pay attention to the debt that
Speaker 9: is being issued by all of these tech companies. I
Speaker 9: think the five big spenders on AI, which is Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon, Meta,
Speaker 9: and Oracle together they have raised more than one hundred
Speaker 9: billion in debt this year. That is more than three
Speaker 9: times the average over the past decade. Or so Oracle
Speaker 9: in particular, because they are seen as having one of
Speaker 9: the weaker balance sheets of them, They're going to have
Speaker 9: negative cash flow this year. That's expected to deepen in
Speaker 9: the coming years as they invest aggressively into their cloud business,
Speaker 9: which has been a big benef sharry of AI. But
Speaker 9: if you look at their credit, the fault swaps for
Speaker 9: the next five years, which is really being used as
Speaker 9: a kind of proxy for AI risk. Those have skyrocketed
Speaker 9: over the past couple of months. I think they are
Speaker 9: around forty four basis points in September, they're over one
Speaker 9: hundred now. So this just shows you how people are
Speaker 9: growing concerned about all of this capex. When is it
Speaker 9: going to pay off? What is this doing to the
Speaker 9: balance sheets of all these big tech companies, and really
Speaker 9: how should that impact the way we are valuing them.
Speaker 3: Rating companies are keeping an eye and.
Speaker 2: I think Oracle has been put on negative watch in
Speaker 2: case it does need a downgrade from its debt issuance.
Speaker 2: But what's interesting is there's have a lot of creative
Speaker 2: financing around this. Look there was eighteen billion dollars issued
Speaker 2: by Oracle, and there was thirty eight billion dollars of
Speaker 2: bonds issued for Oracle Data Centers, but not BI Oracle
Speaker 2: at all. And then we think about the private credit
Speaker 2: markets and what Blue OU's been up to with Meta.
Speaker 2: How much is this actually not being seen at the moment.
Speaker 9: That's a great question. I think this kind of gets
Speaker 9: to the bigger picture concerns right now about just all
Speaker 9: of this spending, how it's being done. We've seen so
Speaker 9: much these circular financing deals you've seen this off balance
Speaker 9: sheet debt, all of these things, it just seems like
Speaker 9: they add to the risk of the market or people
Speaker 9: are saying like, we don't really know the full picture
Speaker 9: of all this stuff. We have one of the biggest,
Speaker 9: most important companies in AI, which is Open AI. They're private,
Speaker 9: we don't have as much information about them as we
Speaker 9: do public companies. When you get all that, it's like,
Speaker 9: this is just more things that are people are uncertain
Speaker 9: of about numbers you can't fill in, and that just
Speaker 9: causes people to think, maybe this is more risky than
Speaker 9: we thought. This is a good opportunity to be taking
Speaker 9: risk off the table when you see all these things
Speaker 9: sort of building on each other.
Speaker 2: Ryan Vastelica always a must read, some of the most
Speaker 2: best stories throughout the week.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Look, let's talk about some of that anxiety in the
Speaker 2: private markets.
Speaker 3: Concerns about an AI bubble.
Speaker 2: They swell there to Rebecca Lynn, managing director at Canvas Prime,
Speaker 2: is one who's saying, we are in a bubble. Look,
Speaker 2: you're here to tell us a little bit about what's
Speaker 2: impacting your investing approach, and first give us your thesis
Speaker 2: and why it's obviously an AI bubble.
Speaker 17: Right, Well, I think we can debate whether we're in
Speaker 17: a bubble or not, you know, for the for the
Speaker 17: better part of the day, I definitely think we're in
Speaker 17: a bubble. But what's more interesting I think to talk
Speaker 17: about is how we as early stage investors react and
Speaker 17: how we invest in incredible companies that will be the
Speaker 17: next you know, sort of five trillion dollar companies, and
Speaker 17: how we execute on that no matter where we are
Speaker 17: in this hype.
Speaker 2: Cycle, Rebecca, for example, those that would say we're not
Speaker 2: in a bubble or not in similar to dot com,
Speaker 2: is that actually a lot of these companies are very profitable.
Speaker 2: In Nvidia, very profitable, Alphabet, Amazon, all the likes, but
Speaker 2: open Aye and the private side, we know that thus
Speaker 2: far they haven't been profitable because I'm having to invest
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 3: So let's time on touch the private side.
Speaker 2: What security you getting from the companies you want to
Speaker 2: invest in that they are keeping pace with growth trajectory
Speaker 2: on the bottom line and the top line.
Speaker 5: Very interesting.
Speaker 17: So what we're doing is we're really having to dig
Speaker 17: in and the companies we invest in on the customers
Speaker 17: and go in and talk to their core customers and
Speaker 17: ask questions questions I haven't had to ask, honestly, and
Speaker 17: since I've been an in venturer, like, let me see
Speaker 17: all of your contracts for every single deal that you
Speaker 17: have signed up. Because what we're seeing in private markets
Speaker 17: is the arr is probably the most overused term in
Speaker 17: the English language, and so people are misused. Let's just
Speaker 17: say misused.
Speaker 3: That's what you're trying to get.
Speaker 2: The idea that you look at what revenue've had in
Speaker 2: the month past and you can extraculate that out on
Speaker 2: a twelve month basis.
Speaker 5: Exactly, or annual recurring revenue.
Speaker 17: How much have they contracted with these with their customers,
Speaker 17: And when a company gives you that number, you really
Speaker 17: have to peel back the onion.
Speaker 5: You have to go and talk to the customers.
Speaker 17: You have to look at the contracts, and then the
Speaker 17: contracts oftentimes what they're accounting as annual recurring revenue is
Speaker 17: not at all. They're things like pilot revenue or you know,
Speaker 17: very like installation revenue. Things like that very ephemeral revenue,
Speaker 17: or the revenue could go away with a thirty day
Speaker 17: out clause at any point in time. So we really
Speaker 17: look for companies where customers have used, are using the
Speaker 17: company not just as a trial or an R and
Speaker 17: D experiment, but are really using that company and count
Speaker 17: on that company for their day to day operations, either
Speaker 17: in financial services or healthcare.
Speaker 2: I think back to the lessons learned in FTX and
Speaker 2: when we all suddenly realized this company that everyone appiled
Speaker 2: into thinking it was a winning formula was actually I
Speaker 2: think using quick books in terms of its own accounting methodology.
Speaker 2: How much have investors vcs become so savvy to the
Speaker 2: cult of a personality, to the CEO, to a story
Speaker 2: that is of growth but actually really trying to peel
Speaker 2: that on you and as you say you're doing.
Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean it's just what we stay focused on.
Speaker 17: I tell my team, do the right deal, not the
Speaker 17: hype deal.
Speaker 5: And it's hard.
Speaker 17: It's hard when they bring a company in and you know,
Speaker 17: people are piling in at you know, five hundred million
Speaker 17: dollars valuations with really no revenue, and they're great, they're
Speaker 17: great firms. We call them the big box firms here
Speaker 17: in Silicon Valley. Who have you raised hundreds of you know,
Speaker 17: or over a billion two billion dollars in to invest
Speaker 17: and they just have a fundamentally different problem. Right now,
Speaker 17: I think they're not doing a lot of the diligence.
Speaker 17: They can't do that really deep diligence because they simply
Speaker 17: have too much capital to deploy.
Speaker 5: And when I talk to my my.
Speaker 17: You know, brethren over there that they'll say things like you,
Speaker 17: you know, our job is in part just deploying capital,
Speaker 17: and so I think sometimes unfortunately they skip over the
Speaker 17: part that I think is the most important part of
Speaker 17: the job, which is diligence and governance on these deals
Speaker 17: and really diving deep to say is this a company
Speaker 17: that can make it for the long term and really
Speaker 17: return a lot of capital, or is this a company
Speaker 17: that might be running on quick books.
Speaker 3: Like you said, the thing is you're in the Series
Speaker 3: A and Series B.
Speaker 2: I think of just the extraordinary numbers that we were
Speaker 2: talking about. A potential project that Bezos is launching with
Speaker 2: initial seed funding of six billion dollars. You've got Mara
Speaker 2: Marati raising a company's funding at potentially a fifty billion
Speaker 2: dollar valuations. What's being reported by Bloomberg when ultimately a
Speaker 2: seed round was giving her evaluation a twelve billion in
Speaker 2: rate two billion on that?
Speaker 3: What are the numbers that you're seeing to get into these.
Speaker 17: Rounds, well, I think first of all, what you have
Speaker 17: to realize is that you know, the large majority of
Speaker 17: capital is going into a handful of deals. I think
Speaker 17: sixty two percent of all the money that went in
Speaker 17: last year and adventure or actually this year.
Speaker 5: Is going into eight deals.
Speaker 17: And so I actually see that as an opportunity and
Speaker 17: it's a feature, not a bug in terms of what
Speaker 17: I'm doing.
Speaker 5: And we are seeing deals.
Speaker 17: We're seeing series as that we were interested in initially
Speaker 17: with sub five sub ten million dollars of actual revenue
Speaker 17: going for five hundred million plus invaluation. But I think
Speaker 17: the more interesting thing I actually walked away from two
Speaker 17: deals in the last I would say thirty days that
Speaker 17: had that profile. But even if you could get comfortable
Speaker 17: with the valuation, what people really aren't talking about right
Speaker 17: now are the governance issues. And so in both of
Speaker 17: the deals I walked away from, the founder demanded in
Speaker 17: the series a complete and total board control, not just
Speaker 17: in voting shares, but on every major decision that the
Speaker 17: company could make going forward. And what I've seen, and
Speaker 17: you know, I was around for the dot com bubble,
Speaker 17: and as an operator, I've been investing through multiple cycles,
Speaker 17: and what I've learned is that that is a recipe
Speaker 17: for a disaster in most situations. And so I'm actually
Speaker 17: more concerned with the lack of governance going on right
Speaker 17: now even than the actual evaluations and the money going in.
Speaker 2: People not talking about it, but you're talking about it,
Speaker 2: and you're talking about it on this show. We so
Speaker 2: appreciate that you do. We love the right deal, not
Speaker 2: the hype deal. Rebecca Lynn, come back soon, we hope.
Speaker 2: Managing director at Canvas Prime, thank you. Coming up, We're
Speaker 2: going to be speaking with the CEO of Cerebra Assistance,
Speaker 2: Andrew Feldman. The US approves the selling of advanced AI
Speaker 2: chips in the Middle East, how it affects his startup.
Speaker 2: And we're watching, of course, publicly traded shares to Netflix, Paramount,
Speaker 2: Comcast initial offers have been put on the table for
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers Discovery.
Speaker 3: Paramount wants the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Remember up one point three percent of Paramounts guidance today,
Speaker 2: Comcast up almost two percent of Netflix under pressure.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2: Let us check in on chips stops because it has
Speaker 2: been a wild week. It's been a wild day as well,
Speaker 2: we are currently off in negative territory. If you're looking
Speaker 2: at the Semiconductor index, the Philly one, we're currently flat,
Speaker 2: just down on the socks as we see apply Materials
Speaker 2: trying to do its best to lift us higher. But
Speaker 2: on the downside, broad come from a point's perspective. In
Speaker 2: video off by five tens percent. This is the question
Speaker 2: mark we still have about how much customers owen video
Speaker 2: and indeed their ventury backclock is being thought about. But
Speaker 2: AMD off by two percent TSMC even being dragg lower
Speaker 2: by one point four percent, as we still question some
Speaker 2: of that anxiety in the market regarding AI bubble or not.
Speaker 3: But this is all is.
Speaker 2: This week we saw the US actually approved the sale
Speaker 2: of advanced AI chips into the UAE into Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: That's boosting the Gulf nation's AI expansion efforts so should
Speaker 2: be a key area of demand. Andrew Fellman, CEO of
Speaker 2: Cerebra System is praising the move, saying we're grateful for
Speaker 2: the administration's decision which allows us to scale US built
Speaker 2: wafer scale AI systems into one of the world's fastest
Speaker 2: growing AI hubs.
Speaker 3: Andrew joins US now for more so.
Speaker 2: You of course, have the CS three system, new class
Speaker 2: of AI supercomputer. You want to be able to ship
Speaker 2: it more into partners. You have G forty two. You're
Speaker 2: working with the UAE.
Speaker 3: How much will you be working with Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 18: I think we've begun working with Saudi Arabia. We do
Speaker 18: have salespeople on the ground in the Kingdom. It is
Speaker 18: a new effort for us, and it's not as far
Speaker 18: along as we are in the UAE in some other territories,
Speaker 18: but it's an exciting opportunity. And I think the move
Speaker 18: by this administration to allow our allies and our partners
Speaker 18: in the Middle East to gain access to advanced a
Speaker 18: compute is a good one and thoughtful. And I think
Speaker 18: having US technology from chips to software to the full
Speaker 18: stack in the hands of our allies is good policy.
Speaker 2: Hands of our allies, you have CS three system, which
Speaker 2: he says quickly, easily clustered together, you make it the
Speaker 2: largest AI supercomputers the allies are in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: but there's always been worry that it would be a
Speaker 2: backdoor into China. How do you make sure that your
Speaker 2: IP has protected?
Speaker 18: Andrew Okay, I think we work closely with G forty two.
Speaker 18: There are strategic partner and we have been working with
Speaker 18: them for more than three years now, and they have
Speaker 18: developed a restricted Technology environment, an approach that sort of
Speaker 18: surrounds the technology with security. I think it is both
Speaker 18: forward looking and extremely sort of rigorous. We're really confident
Speaker 18: that it will keep the technology both physically from being
Speaker 18: transported to China as well as used by by Chinese agents,
Speaker 18: and so we're very confident. We've visited facilities, we've seen
Speaker 18: the restricted Technology environment in action. I think they're doing
Speaker 18: an extraordinary amount of work to earn the President's.
Speaker 2: You do have that relationship with G forty two. How
Speaker 2: does the relationship of expansion sales groups on the ground
Speaker 2: in Saudi Arabia square with that relationship. How many sales
Speaker 2: do you think you're going to be able to get
Speaker 2: right away?
Speaker 18: Andrew, I think sales in any territory take a little
Speaker 18: bit of time. You have to build relationships, you have
Speaker 18: to build credibility and legitimacy. But I think our success
Speaker 18: with G forty two, the work we're doing with other
Speaker 18: customers like Meta, like IBM, the work we're doing with
Speaker 18: large enterprises like Mayo Clinic and Galas of Smith Klein
Speaker 18: and the work we're doing with leading AI startups like
Speaker 18: Mistral and Cognition. All of these make entry into new
Speaker 18: markets a little bit easier. You have examples you can
Speaker 18: point to, You have large customers that they or partners
Speaker 18: they can buy from. And I think this is what
Speaker 18: it means to be expanding quickly in a global environment.
Speaker 2: It's the US government doing enough to help startups such
Speaker 2: as your Visa VI Nvidia, which in many ways gets
Speaker 2: a lot of the voice support from the administration.
Speaker 18: Briefly of course, and sort of they've gone through this
Speaker 18: process too, right. They weren't always a giant company. I
Speaker 18: think it's taken them twenty twenty five years to earn
Speaker 18: their position at the top. And so you know, we
Speaker 18: have extraordinary access. We do a big business with the
Speaker 18: Department of Defense with the DOE. Actually, I was with
Speaker 18: Jensen and Lisa Sue of a m D with Secretary Wright.
Speaker 18: The DOE is is a leading organization for US AI policy.
Speaker 18: It's been I think you always want more, but I'm
Speaker 18: proud of what we've been able to accomplish with the government.
Speaker 2: Andrew Felman come back soon. We hope revers system. CEO
Speaker 2: appreciate you joining on the day. Canvas Affinity suite of
Speaker 2: creative tools, well it's topped two million tantos since it's
Speaker 2: launched just free software a few weeks ago. The free
Speaker 2: product offering is part of canvas increasing effort. We need
Speaker 2: to challenge rivals like Adobe. Let's talk about this with
Speaker 2: camas Co foundery Cliff Obect Cliff, extraordinary level of uptake.
Speaker 3: Were you expecting that?
Speaker 11: To be honest? And thanks for having me first and foremost.
Speaker 11: We've been absolutely blown away by the level of uptake.
Speaker 11: It probably really speaks to the creative community screaming out
Speaker 11: for choice and us delivering on it. But yeah, we'll
Speaker 11: be absolutely blown away with the pickup so far.
Speaker 2: Affinity is about professional design in many ways, but how
Speaker 2: are you seeing being adopted more broadly and who is
Speaker 2: it that really wants to lean into this type of sophistication.
Speaker 11: So Canva is a design tool. When we launched Canva,
Speaker 11: there were only professional design tools.
Speaker 7: So we launched Canvas to.
Speaker 11: Enable the ninety to ninety nine percent of the world
Speaker 11: who couldn't design, to be able to design and express
Speaker 11: their creativity. And what we did with the acquisition of
Speaker 11: Affinity we acquired that company and we just launched it
Speaker 11: one hundred percent for free, and that really gives creative
Speaker 11: freedom and the ability to create and design to the
Speaker 11: other one to ten percent of the organization. So now
Speaker 11: we have both professional designers and everyone else able to
Speaker 11: design for free and with ease and not let the
Speaker 11: tools or cost get in the way of people achieving
Speaker 11: their goals through visual communication.
Speaker 2: Now I'm looking at some analysis that was put out,
Speaker 2: one analyst calling it from a virt visual suite to
Speaker 2: a comprehensive.
Speaker 3: Creative operating system.
Speaker 2: They say that launches Canva into beyond the tool for
Speaker 2: simple graphics and to challenge Adobe's long standing market dominance.
Speaker 3: Is that what you're doing, you're challenging Adobe here.
Speaker 11: I think we really just think about how do we
Speaker 11: help organizations achieve their visual communication goals. How do we
Speaker 11: People don't wake up in the morning wanting to create
Speaker 11: a social media graphic or wanting to create a presentation.
Speaker 11: They wake up wanting to achieve a goal. Whether that's
Speaker 11: a small business trying to raise money, whether that's a
Speaker 11: large organization trying to win more customers or deploy great
Speaker 11: marketing content to grow their business and revenue. We're really
Speaker 11: in the business of helping businesses achieve their goals. And
Speaker 11: that's quite a complex process in a large organization to
Speaker 11: create on brand content at scale, and we really have
Speaker 11: connected all of that complexity through the Creative operating system
Speaker 11: and help businesses deliver on that promise.
Speaker 2: The promise is being born out with the statistics and
Speaker 2: the money. The rolls in three and a half billion
Speaker 2: in terms of annual revenue uses two hundred and sixty million,
Speaker 2: You've been profitable for eight years.
Speaker 3: All of this seems to hint that you're.
Speaker 2: On the path becoming a public company, Is that right, Cliff, Uh.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's probably imminent in the next couple of years, that's.
Speaker 3: For sure, eminent.
Speaker 2: And what therefore do you need to streamline before that?
Speaker 2: How much a you're thinking about your talent. I know
Speaker 2: you've done a raise where you're able to offer a
Speaker 2: qui to those that have been working with you, But
Speaker 2: how are you able to get the right talent in
Speaker 2: the door and retain them at this moment?
Speaker 11: I mean, cam is one of the fastest growing companies
Speaker 11: in the world right now, and so that helps is
Speaker 11: a great product, solving real problems for customers and delivering
Speaker 11: lots and lots of value. So people are excited to
Speaker 11: work at a company that really helping that company that
Speaker 11: is helping their customers achieve their goals and is delivering
Speaker 11: on that success and is growing fast. And we've hired
Speaker 11: an incredible leadership team over the last well since the
Speaker 11: start of Camevra, and a lot of our leaders have
Speaker 11: been with us for eight plus years. But we have
Speaker 11: also brought in a really great c suite of folks
Speaker 11: like our CFO Kelly who came from Zoom, and a
Speaker 11: bunch of others to really sort of like pad out
Speaker 11: that leadership muscle in the lead up to an Ipol
Speaker 11: and beyond.
Speaker 2: You are really augmented by Ai many ways. But some
Speaker 2: would say that open ai is a key competitive of yours.
Speaker 2: How do you see that with Sora, how do you
Speaker 2: see innovation as your lifeblood?
Speaker 11: Open Ai are an absolutely fantastic partner of ours. And
Speaker 11: you can even start a design within chat GPT now,
Speaker 11: So if you're creating a presentation outline, you can simply
Speaker 11: say you can I please have that as a Canva design,
Speaker 11: and it will give you that Canva design straight into
Speaker 11: Chat GPT and then you can click through to Canva
Speaker 11: for the final mile of editing, collaboration, deployment, and then
Speaker 11: understanding how that content actually performs in the world. So
Speaker 11: we have an absolutely fantastic partnership with open Ai and
Speaker 11: we really build the tools around the models like Sora.
Speaker 11: So in order to create a video, there's a lot
Speaker 11: more than just PROMPTU short clip. You need to create character, consistency, audio,
Speaker 11: there's so much more. So we really create that end
Speaker 11: to end workflow that enables video creation, design creation, and
Speaker 11: now were the first company in the world that's launched
Speaker 11: a layered design model that really generates a Canva design
Speaker 11: that you can edit straight away rather than having to
Speaker 11: every time you make a change, redesign or re recreate
Speaker 11: that image or piece of content.
Speaker 3: Nomenon.
Speaker 2: I know you're off to trying to next enjoy that trip,
Speaker 2: Cliff Overreckt and the CEO co founder, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 3: What a week. Check in on the markets as we
Speaker 3: go to break.
Speaker 2: We're higher on the day, but it's been a sell
Speaker 2: off of a week. As a Bloomberg Tech