WEBVTT - Businessweek Daily Special: MBA Programs & Artificial Intelligence 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios.

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<v Speaker 2>Podcasts.

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<v Speaker 3>Radio.

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<v Speaker 4>News.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio. Well, when we last spoke, Tim,

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<v Speaker 1>the world was a very different place. President Trump hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>been elected again. The U.S. and Israel hadn't launched the

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<v Speaker 1>war against Iran. We were talking about AI a little bit, like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>this is this thing, chat GPC, it's kind of cool.

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<v Speaker 1>But not many people were worried about the existential threat

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<v Speaker 1>to humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>That is, though, what we talk about a lot. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure all of the global MBA programs are trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out what is the role of AI? What

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<v Speaker 2>do they need to teach the next class of MBA

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<v Speaker 2>graduates about all of this? We bring it up because

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<v Speaker 2>if you're trying to train those leaders for the global

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<v Speaker 2>business environment, you have got an awful lot to think about.

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<v Speaker 1>We've got with us Stefano Caselli, Dean of SDA Bocconi,

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<v Speaker 1>along with the person who oversees all of our coverage

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<v Speaker 1>of business schools, Dimitra Kessiniti. She's Bloomberg News Senior Editor.

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<v Speaker 1>They both join us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Dean Caselli, welcome back. Dimitra, always good to have you

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<v Speaker 1>with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>And thank you for you bringing us all of these

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<v Speaker 1>great deans. Dean, I want to start with you and

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<v Speaker 1>just the change in the business environment that we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>because the focus on getting these executives ready for a

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<v Speaker 1>world that is changing, I think it's fair to say.

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<v Speaker 1>Very rapidly. More quickly than at any, we've had some

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<v Speaker 1>authors on this week.

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<v Speaker 4>I was just thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>The disruption that we've seen has been like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>typically a hundred year cycle. We've been seeing that in

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<v Speaker 1>the last 25 years. It is true.

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<v Speaker 3>But let me say this time is not just simply

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<v Speaker 3>a cycle.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a shift.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we have to do in a business school,

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<v Speaker 3>running our programs or running the MBA is is to

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<v Speaker 3>try to explain that AI and geopolitics, that are the

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<v Speaker 3>two factors that combine together, can change completely the playground,

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<v Speaker 3>need to be understood. And what you have to do

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<v Speaker 3>in class is to push our students to invest more

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<v Speaker 3>on what we need, the pillars, the fundamentals of knowledge. Otherwise,

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<v Speaker 3>the risk is AI is a fantastic super tool, but

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<v Speaker 3>if you don't have, as we say in finance, the

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<v Speaker 3>underlying asset, the risk is that, you know, you don't

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<v Speaker 3>have anything in your hands. So the investment is on

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<v Speaker 3>the pillars of knowledge, much more than that.

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<v Speaker 2>So knowledge still matters. That hasn't gone away. And recruiters

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<v Speaker 2>tell you that, that you want MBA candidates that understand AI,

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<v Speaker 2>but they have to have an understanding of whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>reading a balance sheet or understanding business strategy. That still matters.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly. And it is obviously easy and difficult in the

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<v Speaker 3>same time, because when students arrive in class, they're very

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<v Speaker 3>worried about the world, which is changing. And what you

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<v Speaker 3>have to do is not only to combine, let me say,

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<v Speaker 3>with the art knowledge of the fundamentals. with the new tools,

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<v Speaker 3>but what you have to do is to work really

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<v Speaker 3>one to one with every candidate and every student and

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<v Speaker 3>to design a sort of personalized journey within the frame

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<v Speaker 3>of the MBA. That means more energy, more time, more

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<v Speaker 3>passion on our side, but also the right usage of

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<v Speaker 3>AI to help much more students. to have a personalized journey.

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<v Speaker 2>Denise, it's not like you've been dealing too much with AI,

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<v Speaker 2>have you?

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<v Speaker 1>No, not at all.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, this is all definitely underscoring so much of

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<v Speaker 4>what we've spent the last, well, it's been a few

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<v Speaker 4>months that we've been reporting it and talking to deans

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<v Speaker 4>and faculty.

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<v Speaker 3>About all of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Demetra, forgive me.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know why I said Demetra.

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<v Speaker 1>No worries. It's not like you two grew up together.

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<v Speaker 4>I know we did. We did grow up together.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like you've known each other your entire lives.

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<v Speaker 4>Practically.

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<v Speaker 1>I am having quite a week.

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<v Speaker 4>Demetra.

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<v Speaker 1>But you guys are spending a lot on AI. We have.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it was clear.

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<v Speaker 1>I really wanted to call it by our nickname. That's why.

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<v Speaker 4>We were kind of coming at it a little too late.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>But then it all converged in that week when Dario

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<v Speaker 4>Amode came out with his statement about pulling back and

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<v Speaker 4>being more cautious. And suddenly in every leading news interview,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, outlet, we were seeing so many considerations of this.

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<v Speaker 4>It is definitely, as Stefano says, essential. It's not something

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<v Speaker 4>I think that anybody today leading any of the MBA

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<v Speaker 4>programs that we rank, and we spent a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>time surveying them also about how are they using it.

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<v Speaker 4>But the question is, you know, how are they going

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<v Speaker 4>about it? The investment of time. Do they have the resources?

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<v Speaker 4>Really sort of trying to make the best decisions possible about,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, in what way is this very powerful tool

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<v Speaker 4>going to then interact and work kind of in concert

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<v Speaker 4>with the brains of your students and with their abilities,

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<v Speaker 4>which are not going to be removed from the equation

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<v Speaker 4>by any means.

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<v Speaker 2>So what do you want to know most from... A

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<v Speaker 2>dean like this.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, sometimes, I mean, I did ask him. I said,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, are we heading down a path where we're

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<v Speaker 4>really going to see... a dramatic change in, in what

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<v Speaker 4>these programs look like that, that can really, the answer

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<v Speaker 4>to that change is depending, I think, on where you,

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<v Speaker 4>where you sit. Stefano sits at the head of a

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<v Speaker 4>school where the MBA program itself is one piece of

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<v Speaker 4>many other things. And it's maybe the, even it might

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<v Speaker 4>be the sort of jewel on top, but it might

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<v Speaker 4>be the smallest piece. But what is AI? How is

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<v Speaker 4>it going to fundamentally change what, what that means, what

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<v Speaker 4>business education means?

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean, I think Dean Caselli, for me, had

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<v Speaker 1>I had this technology available, I would have been much

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<v Speaker 1>more effective, to be honest, in business school. Like if

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<v Speaker 1>I had trouble learning some equation that the professor moved

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<v Speaker 1>past and I needed to catch up, it would be

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<v Speaker 1>very easy for me to ask an LLM. Sometimes I

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<v Speaker 1>would go back and watch the recordings of class and stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was such a painstakingly long, inefficient process. Like

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<v Speaker 1>This type of thing seems great. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>it does seem like it can do a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>what you can learn from a professor. So how do

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<v Speaker 1>you make the experience in a classroom something you cannot

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<v Speaker 1>get from a chatbot? I got the point.

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<v Speaker 3>But in a certain sense, our job is to tackle challenges.

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<v Speaker 3>And the challenge this time is to raise the bar.

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<v Speaker 3>And to raise the bar means my performance this time

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<v Speaker 3>needs to be incredible. And an incredible performance is not

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<v Speaker 3>just simply I'm a performer, but it means that when

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to teach, I'm to write on the whiteboard,

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<v Speaker 3>and I say this is the equation, this is not

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<v Speaker 3>the issue. The assumption is, okay, you have to know

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<v Speaker 3>the equations. And now I have to explain, stay in class,

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<v Speaker 3>in which way we can apply, which kind of problems,

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<v Speaker 3>in which way we have to shape decision, which is

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<v Speaker 3>much more complex for me. But it means that the

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<v Speaker 3>learning process could become much more effective because they have

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<v Speaker 3>more time to discuss with me, not only with me,

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<v Speaker 3>with any kind of professor, and to, let me say,

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<v Speaker 3>to understand much better in which way knowledge can be

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<v Speaker 3>applied to the real world. It is exciting, in my opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to put the question to Dimitra because

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<v Speaker 1>as somebody who spent so many years in the world

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<v Speaker 1>of MBA programs and business schools, both in the U.S.

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<v Speaker 1>and internationally, at least here in the U.S., supposedly a 30%

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<v Speaker 1>of your education is about networking and meeting other people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not about the actual classwork. It's about recruiting 30%, 30%

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<v Speaker 1>networking and spending time with other people. That can't be

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<v Speaker 1>replicated in an LLM.

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<v Speaker 4>It can't be replicated in an LLM, no. And we

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<v Speaker 4>see in comments that they give us in response to

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<v Speaker 4>our surveys for the rankings that it's actually what they

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<v Speaker 4>value the most out of what they're getting is the

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<v Speaker 4>human interaction. But the LLM is going to change... what

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<v Speaker 4>they're going to be expected to go into that job with.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't know, I think in some ways it's

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<v Speaker 4>going to affect every piece of that experience because it's ultimately,

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<v Speaker 4>it's going to seriously affect not just what job are

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<v Speaker 4>you going to get, but what are you going to

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<v Speaker 4>be expected to do and how are you going to

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<v Speaker 4>do it?

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<v Speaker 2>So go to executive education, Dean Caselli. Like, I am

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<v Speaker 2>curious how much you've got companies and executives coming back

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<v Speaker 2>and saying, help me here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's growing, it's growing. If I consider, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the pie of what I do, you know, the portion

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<v Speaker 3>devoted to exec education, customized exec education for corporates is growing.

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<v Speaker 3>Why it's growing? For three reasons. The first one, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>companies want to give a recognition to their people. They

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<v Speaker 3>want to keep their talent inside and they have to

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<v Speaker 3>give education in a certain sense. Second, you know, challenges

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<v Speaker 3>are much, much more complex. And it's not enough to

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<v Speaker 3>stay in the company and to understand. They need to

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<v Speaker 3>have an outsider, you know, running the exercise together. And

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<v Speaker 3>the third one is to explore uncertainty together. What is

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<v Speaker 3>happening to me, not every day, but let me say

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<v Speaker 3>every week, is to talk with CEOs or decision makers

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<v Speaker 3>of companies saying, you know, I have this kind of problem.

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<v Speaker 3>I have these question marks here. We don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>find the right answers, but we want to co-design together

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<v Speaker 3>with the business school what could be the journey. And

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<v Speaker 3>this is quite exciting because it means to work together

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<v Speaker 3>with a company to try to shape, let me say,

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<v Speaker 3>the future and to work on education. And this is exciting.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a quick question.

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<v Speaker 1>CEOs.

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<v Speaker 2>I am curious about CEOs having to have an understanding

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<v Speaker 2>of AI so they know what to implement at their firms.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you working with CEOs directly?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as well, as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And let me say decision makers, obviously.

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<v Speaker 3>A CEO represents a company and then you have the

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<v Speaker 3>C-level and the team. And they have question marks because,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, leaders need to be humble and they have

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<v Speaker 3>to admit, OK, it is an unbelievable challenge. We don't have.

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<v Speaker 3>the answers and we work together to to try to

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<v Speaker 3>find the path. Let me say to enhance the capability

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<v Speaker 3>of their people to have more agility. and to understand

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<v Speaker 3>better what could be the options on the table. And

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<v Speaker 3>it is quite exciting. Many companies, let me say, will

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<v Speaker 3>be destroyed because they don't have time to say, AI

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<v Speaker 3>is the big problem. We don't have the answer. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a disaster. I'm not here to say it's a launch

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<v Speaker 3>for free. But the number of companies willing to work

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<v Speaker 3>more on education is increasing.

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<v Speaker 4>We're seeing that. I mean, conversationally in our interviews and

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<v Speaker 4>in some surveys that have come out recently, It's very similar.

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<v Speaker 4>In Europe, at least, we can see that with many

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<v Speaker 4>of the leading business schools, right? We're not talking about MBA,

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<v Speaker 4>but this executive education, customized executive education, very, very major companies,

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<v Speaker 4>big-name companies recognizable all around the world, not just in Europe,

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<v Speaker 4>not just in North America, also in Asia. And that

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<v Speaker 4>need is there, and a lot of what these programs

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<v Speaker 4>and these schools are doing now is addressing that.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes sense. Do you want to go back and

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<v Speaker 2>do your MBA?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was telling someone yesterday if I could go

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<v Speaker 1>back and do it with what I know now based

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<v Speaker 1>on the reporting that I've done over the last decade

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<v Speaker 1>and the world I've been in, it would be great.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it would be kind of interesting. Love having you back.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Come back, both of you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>I did want to call you by your nickname, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's why I like this.

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<v Speaker 1>I love this. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not privy to do that. Dimitra Kassanidis, Bloomberg News

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<v Speaker 2>Senior Editor.

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<v Speaker 4>I love.

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<v Speaker 2>Stefano Caselli, he is Dean at SDA. Bocconi joining us

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<v Speaker 2>here in studios.

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<v Speaker 1>Travel well.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you.