1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Improvisations really important in writing, because you discover things as 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: you write if you already know everything. This is what 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: I always say to students. If you know everything you're 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: going to write, then it's not worth writing. 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino Usa. I'm marieo 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 2: Josa Today, one of the most influential anthropologists of our time, 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: tells us about her creative process on the page and 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 2: on the dance floor. Ruth Behar had to learn the 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: rules of anthropology to know she wanted to break them. Today, 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: Ruth is a well known name in academic and literary circles, 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 2: but before all that, Ruth was a PhD student at Princeton. 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: There she was taught that anthropologists had to be impersonal, 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: objective observers of the people and cultures that they study, 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: And for years Ruth was a good student, exceptional student. 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: In fact, Ruth was the first Latina to be awarded 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: a MacArthur Genius Fellowship in nineteen eighty eight, when she 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: was just thirty two years old. But in nineteen ninety six, 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: Ruth published a book she thought might end her career. 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: She titled it The Vulnerable Observer Anthropology that Breaks your Heart. 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: It's a collection of personal and ethnographic essays where she 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: argues that objectivity in cultural anthropology is a myth. This 22 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: approach changed the field as we know it. 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: I still get emails and letters from people who have 24 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: read the book and they said, thanks to you, I 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: did this, so I wrote this, or I would never 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: have done this, or would never have talked about myself 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: in my scholarship. So it did open a door for 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: others who wanted to write in a different way than 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: they had been taught to write. 30 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: Ruth was born in Cuba to a Jewish family. 31 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: Later she was raised in Queens, New York. 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: Her heritage as informed not only her anthropological career, but 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: her career as a writer as well. In recent years, 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: Ruth has written numerous books for children and young adults 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: like her granddaughters. Her latest young adult novel, Across So 36 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 2: Many Seas, was released in early twenty twenty four. Producer 37 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: Elisaveena has been fascinated with the work of Ruth Behar 38 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: for years, and while getting to know her, Elisa discovered 39 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: they have a unique connection. Not only are they both 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: Cuban American writers, they're both also salsa dancers. 41 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 4: Who are an anthropologist, but you are a dancing. 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: I'm a dancing anthropologist, and as Ruth will tell you, 43 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: her experiences on the dance floor translate rather poetically to 44 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: the page. Today, we're bringing you a story about a multifaceted, 45 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: multi talented scholar, told by a person touched by her work. 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: And I'm going to let Elisa Veena take it from here. 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 5: A few months ago, Ruth Baihar and I made plans 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 5: to go to salsa class together, but before we made 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 5: it to class, she came over to my apartment to 50 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 5: chat for a while. The first thing on our agenda 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 5: was her latest book, Across so Many Seas. I spent 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 5: the day on the beach reading the book. 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: You're getting paid to do this? Wait, what's going on here? 54 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 5: The book centers on four twelve year old girls from 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 5: the same Sephardic family, spread across space and time. 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: We're going to see how they're thinking, how they're living, 57 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: how they're feeling, what they're doing, what dreams they have. 58 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: We don't stop being twelve year old girls when we're 59 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: twenty five or when we're sixty something, right, I mean 60 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: that that girl is still inside of us. And I 61 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: tried to make it a very poetic book as well, 62 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: so that it would interest a young reader, because I 63 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: think young readers like poetic writing, but I think older 64 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: readers do too, so I was hoping it would be 65 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: kind of an old ages book. 66 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 5: I was excited to learn about this book because I 67 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: always learned something from Ruth. I first discovered her work 68 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty two when I was a fellow at 69 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 5: Latino USA. During my fellowship, I worked on a radio 70 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 5: essay about the condo collapse that killed ninety eight people 71 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 5: in Miami Beach a year earlier. 72 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: Right to that breaking news tonight where we continue to 73 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: follow the latest on this condo building collapse. 74 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: These videos and images out of Surfside, Florida show unbelievable destruction. 75 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 5: It was a tragedy that happened blocks away from the 76 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 5: apartment I lived in with my grandmother, where I spent 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 5: a lot of my childhood, And every day that I 78 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 5: sat down to write felt like I was breaking my 79 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 5: heart open again and again. One of my friends and 80 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 5: colleagues knew I was struggling, so she emailed me the 81 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 5: first chapter of The Vulnerable Observer. 82 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: As a storyteller opens her heart to a story listener 83 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: recounting hers that cut deep and raw into the gullies 84 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: of the self. 85 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: Do you the observers. 86 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: Stay behind the lens of the camera, switch on the 87 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: tape recorder, keep the pen in hand. 88 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 5: At the time, I didn't know who Ruth was, or 89 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 5: that this book caused a sea change in anthropology. I 90 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 5: just knew that reading her words, her prose mixed with poetry, 91 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 5: mixed with ethnography, it gave me the momentum I needed 92 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 5: to keep going. 93 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: Vulnerability doesn't mean that anything personal goes. The exposure of 94 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: the self, who is also a spectator, has to take 95 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: us somewhere we couldn't otherwise get to. 96 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 5: I soon learned that Ruth and I had friends in common, 97 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 5: because that's just how Miami and the Cuban diaspora were. 98 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 5: We were eventually connected when she was visiting family in 99 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 5: Miami Beach, and while we were talking about writing, we 100 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 5: somehow started talking about dance, and we realized that we're 101 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 5: both salsa dancers. 102 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: Dance is this wonderful nonverbal communication, and in fact, you 103 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: don't have to talk right It's this wonderful universal language 104 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: where you lead the steps and you can dance with 105 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: each other and you don't have to speak the same 106 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: spoken language at all. 107 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 5: So now whenever Ruth is in Miami, we go to 108 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 5: salsa class together. Dance has allowed us to cultivate a 109 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 5: friendship that's been so nourishing for me as a young writer. 110 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 5: Ruth has shown me that writing is about trusting your instincts. 111 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 5: It's just like trying and use salsa step. Your ego 112 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 5: has to get out of the way to let the 113 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 5: real magic happen. 114 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: You have to be humble when you're writing and you 115 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: don't know how the writing is going to happen. Sometimes, 116 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: like I'll sit there and go, I don't really know 117 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: what's going to happen next. You know this story, I 118 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: hope I can figure it out. You've got to take 119 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:04,679 Speaker 1: each step as it goes. 120 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 5: Roots insights shape my own approach to writing. In the 121 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 5: case of Across so many seas, Roots process was all 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 5: about building a strong structure and following the beats laid 123 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 5: out before her. 124 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: For me, having a structure of format is really helpful. 125 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: In my previous book, Letters from Cuba, it was all letters, 126 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: and it didn't seem so daunting somehow that I was 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: writing a letter instead of a chapter. 128 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: Right. 129 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: And with this book, it was knowing that it was 130 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: going to be each girl, that each section would be 131 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: about forty or fifty pages, because it couldn't be that 132 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: long if I was going to have the fourth story. 133 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: So here are four girls, four places, four time periods. 134 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: How is this going to work? How am I going 135 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: to put this together so it's readable? And somebody isn't thinking, well, 136 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: these are four different stories or four different short stories, 137 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: but they're not. They're all part of the same big story. 138 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: I just decided it would start in fourteen ninety two 139 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: and then it would end in the present day, and 140 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: these different time periods were something cataclysmic is happening in 141 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: their societies. 142 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 5: There's a big gap in time between the first two 143 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 5: protagonists in across so many seas. The first girl, Miminida, 144 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 5: lives in fourteen ninety two when her family is expelled 145 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 5: from Torlelo during the Spanish Inquisition. The next character is 146 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 5: Miminida's descendant, who lives in Turkey in nineteen twenty three. 147 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 5: Ruth connected both these characters through an instrument called an ood. 148 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: Such a beautiful instrument, and the ood plays a very 149 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: important role in the story because well, for a few reasons. 150 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: For her personal reason, because my paternal grandmother, who was 151 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: named Rebecca, she traveled to Cuba with an ood. She 152 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: literally brought an ood with her from Turkey to Cuba. 153 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: And then we knew that she sang these old songs, 154 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: the old Sephardic or Spanish songs. So we knew that, 155 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: and that's basically all we knew about her, and that 156 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: she had been sent to Cuba, that she had been 157 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: sent to Cuba by her parents, and then she never 158 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: saw her parents. And again, so these were the things 159 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: I knew about that grandmother, and they seemed very mysterious. 160 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: So she really inspired the story kind of the mystery 161 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: of what was going. 162 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: On in her life. 163 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: She also didn't like to talk, I think, as much 164 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: about her story. She didn't share as much. And when 165 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: I asked my aunt about it, she goes, oh, no, no, 166 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: we never asked questions that would have been very disrespectful. 167 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: The one story that we heard was that she was 168 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: sent to Cuba on an arranged marriage. The legendary family 169 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: stories that then she was living with an uncle, this 170 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: was her one relative in Cuba. There was a hallway 171 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: where she would sit and play the ood and sing 172 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Sephardic songs, and that the man who became my grandfather, 173 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: my grandfather Isaac, that he was walking along the street 174 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: and heard her playing the ood and that was what 175 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: attracted him. This is the sad part of the story. 176 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: She married and she had four children, and my father 177 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: was the third. After she married, she stopped playing the ood. 178 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: She didn't have time to play the ood. And what 179 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: they all said is that the ood hung from a 180 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: nail on the wall. So the arranged marriage is kind 181 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: of there in my book, but in a different way. 182 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: In the book it becomes a punishment. But I definitely 183 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: felt very close to her in writing the book, as 184 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: I was thinking about her so much and trying to 185 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: imagine her youth and Turkey and what it would have 186 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: been like to have gone to Cuba from Turkey as 187 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: a young girl. So it was just great to create 188 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: a life for her in the story. I wrote most 189 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: of it at my desk at my home in ann Arbor, Michigan, 190 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: and I have an altar right next to my desk, 191 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: and usually Jewish people don't have alters, so I can't 192 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: call it exactly an alter, but it's like an altar. 193 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: It has images of all of my ancestors and relatives 194 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: who have departed, so both grandparents, my great grandparents, other relatives. 195 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: A friend who passed away this past year as well. 196 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: I've got something of his there too, and candles and 197 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: so on. And I'm writing, I'm always like looking at 198 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: the pictures of those ancestors. So I do feel very 199 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: connected to the ancestors, and I don't forget them, and 200 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: their spirits are very important to me, and I think 201 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: about them all the time. So maybe that energy somehow 202 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: travels through the writing. It's like talking about intangible heritage, 203 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: things like songs or poems or stories or traditions that 204 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: are passed on. There isn't like a palpable artifact, maybe, 205 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: but it's still very real. So like in this book 206 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: and across so many seas, it's like these songs that 207 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: got passed on. It's an intangible heritage, you know, as 208 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: opposed to say the Sephardic Museum, that's a tangible heritage. 209 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: But it was a fourteenth century synagogue, and you know, 210 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: beneath all the blaster and all the walls that they 211 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: built around it, that material remained, and that's a tangible heritage. 212 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: That's an actual synagogue that existed all those centuries ago, 213 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: but it's now a museum. 214 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 5: Roots work as an anthropologist often focuses on connecting women 215 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 5: across generations, cultures, and borders, especially Cuban women on and 216 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 5: off the island. I've never been to Cuba myself, but 217 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 5: ruth stories make me feel like I have. You know, 218 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 5: I don't really feel like I have an ancestral home. 219 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 5: You know, I'm not in a position where I can 220 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 5: go and live in Cuba. I'm not in a position 221 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 5: where I can. 222 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 4: Go and live in you know, La Hi, La Canadias 223 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 4: in Spain, where part of my family's originally from as 224 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 4: far as I know. But this apartment where I spent 225 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 4: my childhood, that's like the most concrete version of my 226 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: ancestral home. 227 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: No, that makes sense, And I think, you know, the 228 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: idea of what an ancestral home is can also shift 229 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: over time, Like this is what you feel now, At 230 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: a later stage of your life, you might feel something different. 231 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I feel. 232 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: This is twenty five, what you feel at twenty five, 233 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: and when you're sixty five you might feel something different. 234 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: And so think keep that in mind, and I think 235 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: with my book, you know, I really wanted to think 236 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: about Sephardic identity and take it back to fourteen ninety two. 237 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: It probably goes back much before that, but it was 238 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: this idea of Jewish people lived in Spain for over 239 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: a thousand years, you know, it's really incredible. 240 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: It's a long time. 241 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: They were really part of the history of Spain, and 242 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: sometimes people don't know that, and that was one of 243 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: the things that I wanted to address in the book. 244 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: And you know, and to go that far back in 245 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: a lot of Spaniards will tell you that they think 246 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: they might have Jewish ancestry rights because the Combersos were 247 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: Jewish people that converted to Catholicism and they converted in 248 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: order to be able to stay And so to me, 249 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: that's so fascinating and that people now think about how 250 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: we have these connections with one another. Sephardic Jews are 251 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: connected to Spaniards in some way because we share this history. 252 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: So that's been so interesting to me that there's kind 253 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: of this we've sort of come full circle in this 254 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: is there's been a kind of reconciliation. 255 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 5: As it often does. Our conversation turned to dance. The 256 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 5: first time I met Ruth felt like writing an essay 257 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 5: in real time about the parallel experiences of writing and dancing. 258 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 5: Each word is a step, each set of moves is 259 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 5: a paragraph. The way you connect them is what gives 260 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 5: you your style. And some conversations flow so easily they 261 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 5: feel like a dance. And even though we've danced together, 262 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 5: I never asked Ruth why she started dancing in the 263 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 5: first place. 264 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: Oh, I love dancing. Well, you know, I was a 265 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: child who had a broken leg for a long time, 266 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: and I was in a body cast for a year 267 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: when I was ten, and I write about that in 268 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: my first novel for young readers, Lucky Broken Girl. So 269 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: I was lucky and I was broken, and that's very 270 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: much something that informed I think. 271 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: The person I became. 272 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I was a very active girl before this car accident, 273 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: before the body cast, and then after the body cast 274 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: and learning to walk again, I became much more afraid. 275 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: That I would get hurt again. I didn't want to run. 276 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: I really stopped doing a lot of physical activities and 277 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: became more of a reader and more contemplative. And similarly 278 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: in college, at through graduate school, I just didn't really 279 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: do a lot of exercise or dancing. For that matter, 280 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: and I think it was really when I was pregnant 281 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty nine, pregnant with my son, 282 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: the one child I had. That was when I started 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: to want to do exercise. I started doing aerobics and 284 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: things like that to stay in shape during the pregnancy. 285 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: And then after after I had the baby, that was 286 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: when I think that was when I started taking dance classes. 287 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: And then I discovered rouela de casino, which I love. 288 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: Would you dance in a circle you change partners with? 289 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: I love that, and I was coming every time I 290 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: would come to Miami, I would dance another way that 291 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: here in Miami, and that was great. So I did 292 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: that for a long time, and then for a while, 293 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: for many many years. I haven't danced now for the 294 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: last four years, but for many many years I danced tango, 295 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: and I love tango. 296 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 5: Through dance, Ruth has witnessed the themes of her writing 297 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 5: in her own life as a member of the Cuban 298 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 5: and Jewish diasporas. Her relationship with tango embodies that story. 299 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: My maternal grandfather was actually supposed to go to Argentina 300 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: instead of Cuba, but he somehow got on the wrong boat, 301 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: so he ended up in Cuba, and his sister was 302 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: waiting for him in Argentina. 303 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: So the descendants of that sister still live. 304 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: In Buenos Aires, and when I've been to Buenosidas, I've 305 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: seen them. So I have these cousins, so I feel 306 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: like I have a connection also to the Argentine culture 307 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: and citango. So tango and salsa very important. I mean, 308 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: I think they've just helped me to feel comfortable in 309 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: my body. 310 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 5: I get what she means. Salsa also helps me building 311 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 5: relationship with my body as an adult woman and not 312 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 5: a teenager in a leotard. I grew up dancing ballet 313 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 5: and still associated dance with structure and discipline instead of 314 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 5: creative expression. When I started salsa dancing, though, I realized 315 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 5: that technique is important, but dancers who get stuck there 316 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 5: can't experience meaningful connections with themselves or their dance partners. 317 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: The dancers that start telling you what to do one, two, three, five, 318 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: six seven, those are the worst dancers. The best dancers 319 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: know how to lead you gently and gracefully with you, know, 320 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: with their hands, with their body movements, with their shoulders, 321 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: with how they look at you. That's the way to dance, 322 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: and so you're also kind of cultivating this other way 323 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: of communicating, which is also important. You could dance with 324 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: somebody you hate, but you could potentially understand each other 325 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: through dance. So if we come back to the theme 326 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: of understanding and empathy, you can understand each other through dance. 327 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 5: I should have known that Ruth is a dance before 328 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 5: we even met her. Writing touches your hand, makes eye contact, leads, 329 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 5: and follows. I remember thinking that the first time I 330 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 5: read her work. 331 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: Despite all the ways I've interrogated anthropology, despite not always 332 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: feeling proud of being an anthropologist, I am an anthropologist 333 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: at heart. An anthropologist not in the credential or academic sense, 334 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: but in the sense that I have cared and will 335 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: always care about vulnerability as a shared experience and the 336 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: way profound and unfathomable encounters can take place between strangers 337 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: that will change our lives forever. 338 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 5: Ruth has changed my life forever, and I can tell 339 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 5: you that, Seamed Bena. But that's enough talking for now. 340 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 6: We have a salsa class to get to. 341 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Alisa Baena and edited by 342 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Grusado and Alejandra Salasad. 343 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: It was mixed by Stephanie Lebou. 344 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: The Latino USA team includes Victoria Estrada, Renaldo Leanos, Junior, 345 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: Jodi mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Noor Saudi and 346 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: Nancy Trujillo. Pannile Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our 347 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 2: senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. 348 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Zenie Robinos, I'm your 349 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: host and co executive producer Marienno Posa. Join us again 350 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: on our next episode. In the meantime, look for us 351 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: on all of your social media and I'll see you 352 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 2: on Instai ram Jadu, savez by bye. 353 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 7: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 354 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 7: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, 355 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 7: the Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more 356 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 7: at hsfoundation dot org, and the John D. And Catherine T. 357 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 7: MacArthur Foundation