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Speaker 1: You know reggaeton, but do you know the whole story?

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Speaker 2: Hi?

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Speaker 3: I'm Gini Monzadbo, Senior producer and sound designer of Loud

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Speaker 3: The History of Reggaeton?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear the news?

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Speaker 3: Loud is back by a popular demand. Listen to all

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Speaker 3: ten episodes that break down the beats, politics, and power

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Speaker 3: behind the genre, Hosted by herself Evie Queen. Listen now

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Speaker 3: only on Spotify.

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Speaker 4: To make miscutten harvester's first shaved down the spiky leaves

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Speaker 4: of agaved plants in order to reach its core, turning

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Speaker 4: a large agavid plant into something that looks more like

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Speaker 4: around large pineapple. In Mexico's most indigenous state, Waka families

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Speaker 4: have been producing miscutt like this for generations, but starting

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Speaker 4: in the twenty tens, US consumers have been wanting more

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Speaker 4: and more of this traditionally made drink. By twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 4: Mescale had become the fastest growing spirit in the US,

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Speaker 4: with a global market estimated to be a half a

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Speaker 4: billion dollars by twenty twenty eight, and celebrities are cashing in.

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Speaker 1: This is a bottle of dos ombres. It's mescal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, please stop telling us you love our tequila.

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Speaker 4: It's mescal brands like Dos Ombres created by Breaking Bad

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Speaker 4: co stars Aaron Paul and Brian Cranston. It was important

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Speaker 4: for Aaron and I to do this right. Are buying

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Speaker 4: into the authenticity of the traditionally made spirit and bottling

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Speaker 4: it up for us consumers. The plant that makes mescale

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Speaker 4: actually takes years to grow, and as the popularity of

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Speaker 4: this guy increases, gaved plants are facing different pressures from

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Speaker 4: both the climate as well as the challenge of extinction.

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Speaker 4: So what does it mean to have so much interest

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Speaker 4: from business people outside of Mexico? Can you in fact

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Speaker 4: model up qahaka and sell it from Fudurro Media It's

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Speaker 4: Latino USA. I'm Maria Josa, and today to understand and

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Speaker 4: to appreciate Misca's production process and how to become a

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Speaker 4: better consumer of this traditional spirit, We're going to bring

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Speaker 4: you a story that aired first a few years ago

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Speaker 4: because there is a lot going on the world right now,

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Speaker 4: and you may need to come together this week to

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Speaker 4: be there for each other in some challenging times, but

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Speaker 4: it's also important to reflect on the positive. So we

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Speaker 4: hope you get to enjoy time with your fa meidia

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Speaker 4: and be thankful that you aren't together. So if you

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Speaker 4: raise a glass with some great Mexican mescal for sentences Sally,

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Speaker 4: there's a saying that goes, barto mal mescale bart dambien,

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Speaker 4: which essentially says, for everything bad, there's mescal, and for

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Speaker 4: everything good, there's mescal as well. Although tequila is the

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Speaker 4: most popular Mexican distilled beverage for a lot of people

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Speaker 4: outside of Mexico, mescal, it's much older sibling, is proving

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Speaker 4: to be an international popular cultural sensation in ways that

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Speaker 4: tequila never was. The way mescal is traditionally made can

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Speaker 4: put the world's finest wine makers to shame. What you

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Speaker 4: hear in the background is an agave farmer in the

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Speaker 4: central valley of Wahaka. He's chopping the prickly leaves from

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Speaker 4: a nagave plant that will eventually make its way through

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Speaker 4: the vigorous process of distilling in order to create miscale.

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Speaker 4: The drink is seriously mystical. Its origins are disputed, but

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Speaker 4: it is nonetheless considered the elixir of the gods of

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Speaker 4: the sapotech world. Due to the commercialization of tequila and

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Speaker 4: bureaucracy and the high cost of authenticating a spirit to

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Speaker 4: governmental standards, mescal was pushed to the shadows and was

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Speaker 4: left to be a drink of the poor. In fact,

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Speaker 4: when I first bought mescal in nineteen eighty one, I

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Speaker 4: got it in a plastic jug because you couldn't get

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Speaker 4: it in the liquor stores. But now mescal is finding

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Speaker 4: its way to Instagram feeds and to trendy barkers across

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Speaker 4: the United States, and producers of mescal are trying to

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Speaker 4: strike a balance between mass commercialization and ethical farming of

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Speaker 4: the crop that makes miscale. Most importantly, they want to

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Speaker 4: make sure those in the business and consumers alike understand

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Speaker 4: and appreciate the culture behind the millinery.

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Speaker 5: Drink.

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Speaker 4: Producers Juan Dio Ramirez in New York and Aredi Morales

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Speaker 4: in Wajaca are gonna tell us more.

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Speaker 5: It's the beginning of the pandemic. And I found myself

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Speaker 5: doom scrolling through Instagram. Then a picture published by the

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Speaker 5: La taco An independent news outlet in La catches my eye.

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Speaker 5: It was from a protest against ICE, the Immigration and

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Speaker 5: Customs Enforcement Agency. The post depicted people in support of immigrants.

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Speaker 5: They held Mexican flags and a woman had a sign

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Speaker 5: that read.

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Speaker 6: I drink my orchata warm because fuck Ice.

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Speaker 5: That is Hilberto Marquez, bartender and global brand ambassador for

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Speaker 5: Illegal Mescal, a brand with operations in the US and Mexico.

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Speaker 5: Like me, Hilberto was also bored on Instagram, but I

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Speaker 5: don't like me. He clicked on the comments and noticed

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Speaker 5: something that I completely missed.

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Speaker 6: Towards the top, someone said that it was not fair

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Speaker 6: to blame Ice because they were just doing their job.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, WHOA, Who's this?

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Speaker 5: He clicked on the profile.

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Speaker 6: And then I just started seeing just all of these

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Speaker 6: racially charged posts or maybe even on a personal level, triggering.

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Speaker 5: The person who had made that comment was also in

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Speaker 5: the liquor business. He was a partner at another Mescale brand.

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Speaker 6: And so that really hit home for me. I'm like,

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Speaker 6: what is the deal with someone who doesn't appreciate the

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Speaker 6: struggle of the immigrant and the culture in general that

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Speaker 6: wants to consume, sell, and profit from the culture. I

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Speaker 6: didn't understand it. I don't understand it to this day.

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Speaker 5: I've always had a close connection to Mescale. After all,

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Speaker 5: I'm from Whaka, the capital of Mescale, so I'd reached

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Speaker 5: out to a Li Morales, my friend and freelance journalist

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Speaker 5: living in Wohaka, to help me understand the Mescale business

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Speaker 5: culture and its connection to the American market.

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Speaker 1: Hi Relli Ola Juan Diego.

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Speaker 5: Really, First of all, Okay, many people know about tequila,

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Speaker 5: but what exactly is mescale?

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Speaker 2: Oh, tequila is mescal, but not all mescal can be

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Speaker 2: considered tequila.

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Speaker 5: Hmm, what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Well, like champagne, which can only be made in the

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Speaker 2: city of Champagne in France, tequila can only be produced

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Speaker 2: with blue agave in the city of Tequila Northwestern in

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Speaker 2: the state of Gali.

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Speaker 4: School.

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Speaker 2: Mescal, on the other hand, can be produced using a

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Speaker 2: variation of agaves in other Mexican states, although most popularly

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Speaker 2: in Wahaka.

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Speaker 5: I see.

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Speaker 2: The main factor is a denomination of origin. The tequila

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Speaker 2: denomination of origin was created in nineteen seventy four. Mescale

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Speaker 2: obtained its own denomination only twenty years later, in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four.

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Speaker 1: You must have it to.

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Speaker 2: Sell and export your agave based product as authentic Mescale.

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Speaker 2: As of today, only nine out of thirty two Mexican

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Speaker 2: states hold the denomination of origin for mescal.

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Speaker 5: What about mescale, Where does that term come from?

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Speaker 2: Well, the term mescale or mescali as it's known in

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Speaker 2: Naguat the language of the Aztecs, means cocta gabe, and

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Speaker 2: it was originally a catch all term for any Agab

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Speaker 2: based looker.

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Speaker 5: Speaking as a Juahakan, I know mescal is embedded in

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Speaker 5: our culture and it's as important as corn, beans and squash.

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Speaker 5: And there's evidence that shows that at least one form

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Speaker 5: of mescale has been consumed for over ten thousand years. Jahaka,

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Speaker 5: which is in the southern part of Mexico, produces ninety

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Speaker 5: percent of all mescal made in the country, and it

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Speaker 5: accounts for eighty percent of all exportation.

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Speaker 4: You brek metal, centro, proactive, little chio.

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Speaker 1: As parsia.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've visited many of distilleries or pilenkas as we

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Speaker 2: call them, and I've spoken to many myros mescalleros who

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Speaker 2: are the masters of the mescale making process.

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Speaker 1: They work on every step of.

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Speaker 2: The production, from farming to the harvesting, cooking and fermenting

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Speaker 2: to the stilling.

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Speaker 7: When the plant is ready, you go to where it is.

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Speaker 7: It can be the fields of the mountains and then

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Speaker 7: you shave the leaves off of it. And when you

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Speaker 7: shave the leaves off of the plant, you just left

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Speaker 7: with the core of the plant that has the shape

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Speaker 7: of a pineapple. So that's what they call it pina.

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Speaker 5: This is a Mara Alonso, more popularly known as Wahaking,

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Speaker 5: a tour guide and cultural ambassador in Wohacka. I talked

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Speaker 5: to him about the process of making mescale.

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Speaker 1: The cooking process.

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Speaker 7: They call it tapada because they cover it. So it's

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Speaker 7: usually main in a conic oven that has the shape

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Speaker 7: of a cone. It's about three to four meters deep.

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Speaker 7: They throw rocks that they collect from the mountains or

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Speaker 7: from the rivers. They throw rocks and they at fired

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Speaker 7: to it and they're gonna let it sit for about

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Speaker 7: five to eight hours. They're gonna wait for their rocks

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Speaker 7: to get red hot. Once the rocks are red hot,

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Speaker 7: they use fiber of a gave that has.

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Speaker 1: Been previously distilled.

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Speaker 7: They put it on top of the rocks and they

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Speaker 7: wet it. They wet it so the rocks and touched

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Speaker 7: the plants, otherwise it's going to burn them. So like

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Speaker 7: cushion in between rocks and the plants.

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Speaker 5: They'll then throw the pinas into the pit and add

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Speaker 5: yet another fiber of agave before covering it with some

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Speaker 5: plastic or dirt, forming some sort of mountain.

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Speaker 7: From the moment you start to clean up the oven

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Speaker 7: until the moment you're ready to cover it takes about

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Speaker 7: fifteen to twenty hours.

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Speaker 5: Then they'll let the agave cook onderground for about five

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Speaker 5: to six days before removing the dirt and the plastic

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Speaker 5: to take out the fiber of the agave. After that,

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Speaker 5: they'll cook the pinas and let them call off for

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Speaker 5: a couple of days or a couple of weeks. Even

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Speaker 5: then comes the process of smashing the cook pina.

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Speaker 7: Some of them use a tawa, which is the circular

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Speaker 7: rock that is pulled by a horse or by a

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Speaker 7: donkey and circles, and in other regions they do a

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Speaker 7: more traditional machin it by hand.

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Speaker 5: Once that process is complete, they put the fiber and

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Speaker 5: the juices of the agave into the wooden fermentation tanks

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Speaker 5: for approximately five days, and finally they distill it in

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Speaker 5: clay pods or copper steels twice.

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Speaker 7: Sometimes you have to wait twenty years for a plant

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Speaker 7: to be ready, and then you have to dig it out,

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Speaker 7: take it to the through the whole process, and then

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Speaker 7: when you drink it, it's like eight hours of these

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Speaker 7: guys mashing it by hand, you know, seven days in

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Speaker 7: the fermentation, two days in the tessellation, you know, and

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Speaker 7: it's like you have learned to appreciate.

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Speaker 4: It coming up and let you know usay, we learn

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Speaker 4: more about the production of escali and now the growing

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Speaker 4: demand is in fact in endangering agave. Stay with usas hey,

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Speaker 4: we're back before the break. We learned about the laborious

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Speaker 4: process of making escal. Now we're gonna look at what's

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Speaker 4: at stake with mass production when it comes to the

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Speaker 4: cultural and environmental impacts. So let's get back to a

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Speaker 4: piece from our archives by producers Juan die Or Ramirez

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Speaker 4: and Areli Morales from Waka.

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Speaker 2: Since before I moved to my family's ancestral land this

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Speaker 2: past year, I've been critically researching brands and the sustainable

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Speaker 2: and social impacts of the boomy mescal industry due to

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Speaker 2: all of the work and resources that go into the

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Speaker 2: production process. For example, espadin agave is the most commonly

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Speaker 2: used agave plant To produce musca.

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Speaker 1: Espadin only takes about five years to mature.

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Speaker 2: Compared with let's say agave silvestres or wild agavez, which

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Speaker 2: can take up to.

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Speaker 1: Twenty years to mature.

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Speaker 2: Espadina is just one of a handful of agada that

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Speaker 2: can be formed, and that's the easiest to make mescale

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Speaker 2: with and eventually export to the US, the world's number

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Speaker 2: one international.

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Speaker 1: Buyer of mescal.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the rich in distinct flavors and aromas

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Speaker 2: of mescales depends largely on the type of magae agave

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Speaker 2: is used, and we are seeing that the over harvesting

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Speaker 2: and production of agavez silvestrees is leading to scarcity and

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Speaker 2: even possible extinction of some variations like agaba and fukrea matdugali.

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Speaker 2: Many of these zagavez are harvested off the sides of

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Speaker 2: the mountains where they naturally grow. The very few producers

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Speaker 2: are reforced in the zagavez. Let's listen to Gonzalo Martinez,

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Speaker 2: a fourth generation Maro mescalo from Santego, Matatlan, Matatlan, the

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Speaker 2: world hapital of mescal.

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Speaker 8: Crouque falta mass mescal qula hinti quamas in masquegesiosis Pola

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Speaker 8: Parte Economicistas en contra tradition.

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Speaker 2: He says that there needs to be more of a

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Speaker 2: mescale culture so people understand more so they are more

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Speaker 2: passionate producing it. Only for the money goes against the culture.

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Speaker 8: Those pocos quintin and del minti at vida iste yoia

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Speaker 8: millenaria sono los qilo as in Nolan mitillos campos loscilo

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Speaker 8: producing zinco percento rel mintez.

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Speaker 2: For Gonzalo, the few who understand this millinery beverage are

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Speaker 2: those who are in the fields. It's really physically taxing

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Speaker 2: to make mescal, he says, adding that maybe just five

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Speaker 2: or ten percent of all producers are really passionate about

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Speaker 2: this beverage.

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Speaker 8: Gabe to the calo no de todos olympia man no

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Speaker 8: no metemos pesticidas.

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Speaker 2: He says that they grow agabez the same with it.

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Speaker 2: Their grandparents did everything by hand, never with pesticides. Gonzalo

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Speaker 2: also highlights another issue, which is water. He says that

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Speaker 2: ten years ago there were maybe twenty producing distilleries in

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Speaker 2: San Diego Matatlan, which accounts for more than seventy percent

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Speaker 2: of all Wahaka's total mescale production, but virtually every family

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Speaker 2: in town and many across the Vaya Centrel where Matatlan

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Speaker 2: is located, live up the production of meska. Driving along

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Speaker 2: the Ruta Camino de Mescal on International Highway one ninety,

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Speaker 2: you'll spot hundreds of producers in agave farms. So that

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Speaker 2: means that basically everybody is digging to extract water from

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Speaker 2: the same vital source.

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Speaker 8: The start avida, las pilas pus mammals, h yes, loos

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Speaker 8: Salio or las.

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Speaker 2: Gonzalo says that if they don't rain in the mass

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Speaker 2: production of viscal, it will get out of hand if

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Speaker 2: it hasn't already, and he's not exaggerating. Water is scarce

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Speaker 2: in my municipality, where we have running water only twice

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Speaker 2: a week. Rain and water are an everyday conversation. Here

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Speaker 2: Santevo Matatlan and its water rights work under USO's costumbres,

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Speaker 2: the indigenous system of community governance that's still a stronghold

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Speaker 2: in many communities.

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Speaker 1: In the state.

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Speaker 2: Each community has its different roles, roles and services. You

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Speaker 2: basically must be born into the community to share the

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Speaker 2: land rights and privileges. In Brizil Scarbonposos, he says that

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Speaker 2: water is a very big problem with large companies digging

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Speaker 2: deep deposits.

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Speaker 5: And while producing a bottle of mescale consumes all local resources,

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Speaker 5: gains from its sales do not necessarily stay in Wahaka.

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Speaker 5: Very few of the brands with the funds to export

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Speaker 5: to the US are Mexican producers. Many outsourced some, if

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Speaker 5: not all, of their mescale making, from farming, to distilling,

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Speaker 5: and even bottling and labeling. Some large companies purchase mescale

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Speaker 5: from small producers while they bottle it and label it

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Speaker 5: for the US markets and exporters have an increasing pool

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Speaker 5: to choose from. Mexico's production of mescal doubled from one

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Speaker 5: million liters in twenty fourteen to almost two million liters

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Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, and by twenty nineteen, almost five million

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Speaker 5: liters were being exported. In twenty twenty alone, seventy percent

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Speaker 5: of all mescale exports went to the US.

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Speaker 2: The farmers I've talked to did not want to go

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Speaker 2: on record to name the brands that they worked for

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Speaker 2: out of pure financial repercussion. Still, many of them say

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Speaker 2: that they believe that these companies that distance themselves from

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Speaker 2: the ancestral earth to bottle process are contributing to the

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Speaker 2: degradation of not only the way of life, but an

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Speaker 2: entire ecosystem. Never mind that the rising cost is already

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Speaker 2: making mescale more expensive for locals to consume. Many small

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Speaker 2: and generational producers do not have the means to regulate

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Speaker 2: and attain the Official Normal Mexicana, the official Mexican Standard

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Speaker 2: certification for exportation. The application itself costs over one hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty four dollars. That doesn't include marketing, bottling, or regulation,

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Speaker 2: opening up mescale makers to sometimes predatory investors. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Juan Diego, as you see, there's more to mescale than

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Speaker 2: just its unique taste.

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Speaker 4: We'll be right back. Yes, hey, we're back, and Juan

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Speaker 4: Diego and Areli are going to finish our story.

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Speaker 5: Now, okay, realie, So let's go back to where the

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Speaker 5: story started. How can we explain the journey of mescale

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Speaker 5: from Wajaka to New York City, Los Angeles, or via

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Speaker 5: Instagram anywhere in the world for that matter.

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Speaker 2: Well, some people would be surprised to hear that there

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Speaker 2: was a time when mescal was looked down on, seeing

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Speaker 2: as a beverage for the poor, drunk almost exclusively by

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Speaker 2: the indigenous people who never started drinking it. It was

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Speaker 2: relatively recent that mescal began experiencing a popularity boom in

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Speaker 2: Mexico and across borders. Mescale bars and Mescale cocktails are

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Speaker 2: found in every city, particularly in the US, thanks in

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Speaker 2: part to social media and its horizon mixology. In the

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Speaker 2: city of Long Beach, California, the line for a mescalero

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Speaker 2: a mescalebar seem to have never died down.

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Speaker 1: Despite the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: Las Perlas Madre Nativo in La are some of the

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Speaker 2: many Mescale bars that pop up in my daily feed.

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Speaker 2: Mescala has even made it to Hollywood due to those

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Speaker 2: badin a Mescal brand created by Brian Craston and Aaron Paul,

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Speaker 2: the co stars of AMC's hit TV show Breaking Bad.

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Speaker 2: But of course, the US connection goes far beyond filtered

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Speaker 2: photos on Instagram right.

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Speaker 5: Many mescalletos and farm workers were for to migrate to

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Speaker 5: the US in the eighties and nineties after NAFTA, the

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Speaker 5: North American Free Trade Agreement, undervalued their agricultural products. This

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Speaker 5: contributed to the growth of the Mexican and documented population,

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Speaker 5: which went from one point three million in the nineteen

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Speaker 5: eighties to five point seven million in nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 5: It was almost impossible to make a living from the

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Speaker 5: production and selling of mescal in Mexico. So when you

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Speaker 5: take all this into account, it's easy to argue that

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Speaker 5: mescal's popularity in the US is a direct result of

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Speaker 5: the cultural exchange that came with that migration.

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Speaker 9: Yes, of course, my dad grew up in a big family,

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Speaker 9: ten siblings, and he's one of the oldest. You know,

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Speaker 9: back then, there weren't many opportunities like there's opportunities right now,

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Speaker 9: like selling mescal. That mescal wasn't popular. Mescal wasn't like

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Speaker 9: something that you could have just sell and make a

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Speaker 9: living out of it. So he decided that one day

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Speaker 9: he wanted a better future. Right in the eighties, he

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Speaker 9: migrated here in the United States.

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Speaker 2: This is a lot for Lopez, who resides in the US.

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Speaker 2: He is the US Director of Operations for Lopereal Mescale

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Speaker 2: in Santa Monica, California. His father, Mario Lopez, was a

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Speaker 2: Maestro mescallero, the expert mescale maker for Loperreal Mescale until

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Speaker 2: February of this year, when he unfortunately passed away from

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Speaker 2: COVID nineteen. While in the US, the Mario worked in

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Speaker 2: La Kitchens, saving to open what eventually became the palenke Loperreal.

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Speaker 9: We have our own Agaba plantations, we have our own distillery.

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Speaker 9: Everything is within the family. We do not source from

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Speaker 9: other distilleries, We do not buy from other agavi growers.

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Speaker 9: This is completely a family oriented company.

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Speaker 2: In recent years, however, he's seen how businesses have exploded.

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Speaker 9: Ever since Mescal took this booming, a lot of families

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Speaker 9: started to produce for a lot of brands. They're outsiders

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Speaker 9: that go and buy the juice and just battle it

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Speaker 9: with a different name, with a different brand, with a

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Speaker 9: different story. It is good and bad. It's good because

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Speaker 9: you know, it creates jobs and it creates opportunities. But

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Speaker 9: at the same time, it's also a downside because they

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Speaker 9: just work for other brands. They just work for other

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Speaker 9: companies or for several companies.

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Speaker 1: But being truly independent isn't easy.

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Speaker 9: It takes a lot of work and a lot of

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Speaker 9: effort and a lot of time that goes into creating

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Speaker 9: a brand, you know, creating and starting a brand. And

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Speaker 9: even when you have all of that, then what how

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Speaker 9: do you sell it? And I think that's very hard,

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Speaker 9: and a lot of people don't have that opportunity. You know,

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Speaker 9: it gets expensive along the way with everything that goes

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Speaker 9: into it.

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Speaker 2: My fear, and I think you share this with Mejuan Diego,

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Speaker 2: is that the international appreciation of mescale is threatening the

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Speaker 2: indigenous sovereignty land and people who resilientely kept miscyle living

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Speaker 2: before it was hit. It's impossible for populations experiencing poverty

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Speaker 2: to turn down every opportunity that provides on funding now,

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Speaker 2: regardless of the depletion, pollution, and future repercussions.

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Speaker 5: So any what can we do to become better consumers?

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Speaker 2: Well, you have to drink responsibly, educate yourself. Don't be

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Speaker 2: afraid to ask your bartender who produced your miscyle and

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Speaker 2: where it came from. Rita bottle's label which includes basic

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Speaker 2: information about the mescal that you're about to drink, like

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Speaker 2: the name of the Maestro Mescaleto. Remember that there's more

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Speaker 2: to mescale than just the liquid.

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Speaker 1: It's ancestral knowledge. Stiggish mescale is an inheritance.

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Speaker 2: Like the Sypotech language spoken by Maestro mescalleto in Matatlin.

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Speaker 1: Two s.

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Speaker 5: Cheers Salu dishpell that means cheers, and Matt Gspeli gispel ndego.

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Speaker 4: This episode, which originally aired in twenty twenty one, was

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Speaker 4: produced by Juan Dieo Ramirez and Areli Morales. It was

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Speaker 4: edited by Andrea Lopez Cruzado and mixed by Lea Sha Damron.

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Speaker 4: Fernanda Echavari is our managing editor. The Latino USA team

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Speaker 4: also includes Roxanna Guire, Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Rebecca Renaldo,

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Speaker 4: Les Junior, Stephanie Lebo, Luis Luna Lori, mar Marquez, Juvieta Martinelli,

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Speaker 4: Monica Morales, Garcia, j j Carubin, Adrianna Rodriguez and Nancy Trujillo.

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Speaker 4: Beniei Amidis and I are executive producers. I'm your host

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00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: Mariao Hosa. Latino Usa is part of Iheart's Michaela Podcast Network.

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00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 4: Executive producers at iHeart are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana.

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00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 4: Join us again on our next episode, Dear Listener. In

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Speaker 4: the meantime, I'll see you on all of our social

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Speaker 4: media and Dear Listener, don't forget to join Futuro Plus.

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Speaker 4: way of supporting futuro media, which we know you love,

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Speaker 4: so do it now. Esta approxima, la teva, Yes.

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Speaker 2: Chiao Latino USA is made possible in part by the

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00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: William and Flora Hewlett Foundation for more than fifty years

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Speaker 2: advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world

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Speaker 2: at Hewlett dot org, The Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge,

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Speaker 2: opportunity and possibilities more at hsfoundation dot org, and Michelle

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Speaker 2: Mercer and Bruce Golden