1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:21,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome to a special set of episodes of The 2 00:00:21,316 --> 00:00:25,556 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab. The now global spread of coronavirus is affecting 3 00:00:25,596 --> 00:00:29,476 Speaker 1: all of us. This disease has brought a host of medical, economic, 4 00:00:29,516 --> 00:00:32,876 Speaker 1: and political problems, but it's also given us a ton 5 00:00:32,916 --> 00:00:36,076 Speaker 1: of uncertainty and anxiety, which are beginning to have an 6 00:00:36,196 --> 00:00:40,396 Speaker 1: enormous negative impact on our collective While being but whenever 7 00:00:40,476 --> 00:00:43,596 Speaker 1: I'm confused or fearful, I remember that looking for answers 8 00:00:43,716 --> 00:00:46,476 Speaker 1: in evidence based science is always the best way to go, 9 00:00:47,076 --> 00:00:53,476 Speaker 1: and that's where I'm hoping this podcast can help. I 10 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:57,036 Speaker 1: often get emails from listeners asking for specific advice, but 11 00:00:57,116 --> 00:00:59,596 Speaker 1: one of the ones I received recently really struck me. 12 00:01:00,956 --> 00:01:03,516 Speaker 1: It was from the director of a hospital emergency department, 13 00:01:04,036 --> 00:01:05,956 Speaker 1: someone who had spent the last few weeks on their 14 00:01:05,956 --> 00:01:09,916 Speaker 1: front lines fighting COVID nineteen. Talked about the fear and 15 00:01:09,956 --> 00:01:13,316 Speaker 1: anxiety so many healthcare workers were facing right now, and 16 00:01:13,436 --> 00:01:15,836 Speaker 1: asked if I could devote a special episode to helping 17 00:01:15,876 --> 00:01:19,156 Speaker 1: medical staff and first responders with some science based tips 18 00:01:19,316 --> 00:01:22,796 Speaker 1: specifically designed to protect their well being during this crisis. 19 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:25,596 Speaker 1: Like many of you, I've been wondering what I could 20 00:01:25,636 --> 00:01:27,356 Speaker 1: do to help the brave folks who are working on 21 00:01:27,396 --> 00:01:30,276 Speaker 1: the front lines of this crisis. But I also didn't 22 00:01:30,316 --> 00:01:32,796 Speaker 1: want to give such advice lightly, and so while I 23 00:01:32,796 --> 00:01:35,316 Speaker 1: desperately wanted to help, I also wanted to make sure 24 00:01:35,316 --> 00:01:38,156 Speaker 1: that I understood what those heroes were really going through. 25 00:01:38,636 --> 00:01:40,196 Speaker 1: So I put out a call to a number of 26 00:01:40,236 --> 00:01:43,476 Speaker 1: my long time doctor friends, a science buddy from college 27 00:01:43,476 --> 00:01:46,236 Speaker 1: who's now a leading oncologist, and my best friend from 28 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:49,996 Speaker 1: elementary school who's now a board certified family physician. I 29 00:01:50,036 --> 00:01:52,636 Speaker 1: asked them to share the specific challenges they were facing 30 00:01:53,116 --> 00:01:55,636 Speaker 1: and what questions they and their teams had about how 31 00:01:55,636 --> 00:01:58,556 Speaker 1: to protect their mental health during this crisis. And then 32 00:01:58,596 --> 00:02:00,316 Speaker 1: I put out a call to someone who I knew 33 00:02:00,356 --> 00:02:03,276 Speaker 1: would do a great job walking me through all these questions, 34 00:02:03,876 --> 00:02:08,076 Speaker 1: doctor Michael Rocha. Doctor Rocha or Mike as I know him, 35 00:02:08,236 --> 00:02:11,556 Speaker 1: is a successful ideologist, but I know Mike in a 36 00:02:11,596 --> 00:02:14,876 Speaker 1: different capacity. We went to high school together back in 37 00:02:14,956 --> 00:02:19,036 Speaker 1: my hometown of New Bedford, Massachusetts. Since graduating, Mike's gone 38 00:02:19,036 --> 00:02:21,996 Speaker 1: on to become one of my town's heroes. He founded 39 00:02:22,036 --> 00:02:25,076 Speaker 1: a group called the New Bedford Wellness Initiative, which provides 40 00:02:25,156 --> 00:02:28,396 Speaker 1: free resources to our community about happiness and healthy living 41 00:02:28,916 --> 00:02:32,076 Speaker 1: In doing so, he's basically retrained as a wellness expert 42 00:02:32,596 --> 00:02:35,876 Speaker 1: and one that really practices what he preaches. He lost 43 00:02:35,916 --> 00:02:40,036 Speaker 1: over eighty pounds through healthy diet and exercise, He meditates regularly, 44 00:02:40,476 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: and he practices many many of the tips that I 45 00:02:42,916 --> 00:02:45,996 Speaker 1: talk about in this podcast. But the reason I really 46 00:02:46,036 --> 00:02:48,396 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to Mike for this episode is that 47 00:02:48,436 --> 00:02:50,476 Speaker 1: he and his medical group have also been on the 48 00:02:50,556 --> 00:02:54,716 Speaker 1: front line tackling COVID nineteen, and like many specialists, he's 49 00:02:54,756 --> 00:02:56,636 Speaker 1: been asked to help out beyond his own area of 50 00:02:56,676 --> 00:03:01,876 Speaker 1: expertise in order to best treat coronavirus patients. Since I 51 00:03:01,956 --> 00:03:04,796 Speaker 1: knew Mike was dealing with these challenges directly, I thought 52 00:03:04,796 --> 00:03:06,756 Speaker 1: he'd be the perfect sounding board for some of the 53 00:03:06,756 --> 00:03:09,436 Speaker 1: tips I wanted to share. I called him home in 54 00:03:09,476 --> 00:03:14,036 Speaker 1: his study to record our conversation. All right, so you 55 00:03:14,036 --> 00:03:17,236 Speaker 1: can start it? Got it? Yeah? It says continue here. 56 00:03:17,276 --> 00:03:19,876 Speaker 1: I'll just hit continue, right, that's all. Yeah, that's your work. 57 00:03:19,876 --> 00:03:21,516 Speaker 1: Here we go. Yeah, So I wanted to start at 58 00:03:21,516 --> 00:03:24,076 Speaker 1: the beginning because we like you and I actually met 59 00:03:24,156 --> 00:03:27,956 Speaker 1: in high school. I think that that's right. I wanted 60 00:03:27,956 --> 00:03:29,516 Speaker 1: you to start with just give me a sense, just 61 00:03:29,636 --> 00:03:31,836 Speaker 1: on the ground just really generally, like, what is it 62 00:03:31,876 --> 00:03:34,516 Speaker 1: feeling like to be someone who's in healthcare right now? 63 00:03:34,676 --> 00:03:38,076 Speaker 1: The feel is is that it's trying to ride a 64 00:03:38,156 --> 00:03:42,796 Speaker 1: roller coaster because the information is coming in incredibly quickly. 65 00:03:43,156 --> 00:03:45,396 Speaker 1: We in medicine are seeing, you know, one study that's 66 00:03:45,436 --> 00:03:48,036 Speaker 1: positive and then the next study that's not so positive. 67 00:03:48,196 --> 00:03:52,356 Speaker 1: Things keep changing, and also in certain places right now, 68 00:03:52,396 --> 00:03:55,796 Speaker 1: there is a very high anxiety as a cardiologist that 69 00:03:55,876 --> 00:03:57,396 Speaker 1: you know, two months ago, I would never thought that 70 00:03:57,396 --> 00:03:59,196 Speaker 1: I was going to be in a situation that, you know, 71 00:03:59,276 --> 00:04:01,516 Speaker 1: going into a patient's room is potentially going to be 72 00:04:01,556 --> 00:04:03,836 Speaker 1: something that I was going to have to wear a 73 00:04:03,916 --> 00:04:08,116 Speaker 1: gown and you know, a mask and an advisor and gloves, 74 00:04:08,116 --> 00:04:10,716 Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of anxiety around that. I mean, 75 00:04:10,756 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 1: it sounds like just the normal care that you would 76 00:04:13,396 --> 00:04:15,716 Speaker 1: normally give, which was this kind of like normal and routine. 77 00:04:15,836 --> 00:04:18,036 Speaker 1: It potentially even could be deadly now, I mean, not 78 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:20,436 Speaker 1: even to take an extreme position. Yeah, I have a 79 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:22,956 Speaker 1: friend of mine, I have someone I trained with that 80 00:04:23,796 --> 00:04:25,596 Speaker 1: was in the front lines of New York and she's 81 00:04:25,796 --> 00:04:28,276 Speaker 1: been admitted to the hospital down there for about ten days. 82 00:04:28,516 --> 00:04:31,316 Speaker 1: She's doing better, but you know, she's my age. So 83 00:04:31,396 --> 00:04:34,836 Speaker 1: you know that's actually for doctors, especially younger doctors. It 84 00:04:34,956 --> 00:04:38,116 Speaker 1: has really caused us to pause because we're young, we're healthy. 85 00:04:38,316 --> 00:04:40,396 Speaker 1: It's not something we would actually expect to have to 86 00:04:40,436 --> 00:04:42,076 Speaker 1: deal with. And so I want to walk through some 87 00:04:42,116 --> 00:04:45,396 Speaker 1: of the things that the science of happiness can help 88 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 1: with in this incredibly scary time. You know, we sadly 89 00:04:48,996 --> 00:04:51,236 Speaker 1: there are major structural problems in terms of the amount 90 00:04:51,236 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 1: of PP access and what hospitals and administrations are doing, 91 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:56,116 Speaker 1: like you know, as a podcast to us, I can't 92 00:04:56,156 --> 00:04:58,596 Speaker 1: help with those, but I think there are certain things 93 00:04:58,636 --> 00:05:00,756 Speaker 1: we can help with in terms of making sure that 94 00:05:00,836 --> 00:05:03,796 Speaker 1: physicians and first responders are protecting their mental health. And 95 00:05:03,836 --> 00:05:05,676 Speaker 1: so I wanted to dig into some of the stuff 96 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:07,636 Speaker 1: that you just talked about. First. Give me a sense 97 00:05:07,636 --> 00:05:10,476 Speaker 1: of the kinds of emotions that positions and first responders 98 00:05:10,476 --> 00:05:12,196 Speaker 1: are going through right now. I mean, one of them 99 00:05:12,196 --> 00:05:14,036 Speaker 1: that I hear a lot in my emails is anger 100 00:05:14,236 --> 00:05:17,876 Speaker 1: that just like you know, this is an awful angering situation. Yeah, 101 00:05:17,916 --> 00:05:19,596 Speaker 1: I think that there's no doubt that there's a lot 102 00:05:19,596 --> 00:05:21,916 Speaker 1: of anger out there. And I think that if people 103 00:05:21,956 --> 00:05:24,676 Speaker 1: get caught in that situation where they're angry, they're not 104 00:05:24,716 --> 00:05:27,316 Speaker 1: actually able to be most effective. But the sense that 105 00:05:27,356 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 1: we don't feel protected in the United States is a 106 00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 1: big thing for people and it's understandable to be upset 107 00:05:34,516 --> 00:05:38,076 Speaker 1: about that because we should be prepared better than what 108 00:05:38,156 --> 00:05:40,116 Speaker 1: we are. And I think that there is a lot 109 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:43,396 Speaker 1: of disappointment. Let's just leave it at that that, you know, 110 00:05:43,596 --> 00:05:47,476 Speaker 1: certain people or organizations that could have made changes and 111 00:05:47,556 --> 00:05:51,116 Speaker 1: could have prevented the potential risk didn't, And I think 112 00:05:51,156 --> 00:05:56,196 Speaker 1: that that emotion rises up and affects the way people 113 00:05:56,236 --> 00:05:59,876 Speaker 1: are feeling these days, especially docs and nurses. And then 114 00:05:59,916 --> 00:06:02,036 Speaker 1: I think another emotion we already talked about it a 115 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:05,476 Speaker 1: little bit is fear. I mean, talk about the ways 116 00:06:05,516 --> 00:06:08,796 Speaker 1: fear is playing out among first responders right now. People are, 117 00:06:09,156 --> 00:06:14,236 Speaker 1: you know, breaking down, they're crying, they're afraid. You know, again, 118 00:06:14,316 --> 00:06:16,596 Speaker 1: we have to take that extra pause, you know. I 119 00:06:16,916 --> 00:06:18,996 Speaker 1: actually had a situation the other day where I needed 120 00:06:18,996 --> 00:06:21,516 Speaker 1: to call nine one one on a patient that was unresponsive, 121 00:06:22,076 --> 00:06:24,556 Speaker 1: and I had to make sure that I told them 122 00:06:24,676 --> 00:06:27,276 Speaker 1: upfront that there was a concern that that person may 123 00:06:27,316 --> 00:06:30,636 Speaker 1: actually have COVID, and that causes everybody to kind of 124 00:06:30,636 --> 00:06:32,676 Speaker 1: sit there and go like, oh my god, right, you 125 00:06:32,676 --> 00:06:35,316 Speaker 1: know again, I think there's a fear amongst cardiologists that 126 00:06:35,356 --> 00:06:37,796 Speaker 1: we you know, it's really hard to tell whether the 127 00:06:37,836 --> 00:06:41,996 Speaker 1: patient actually has a COVID manifestation on an EKG or 128 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:44,596 Speaker 1: their presentation, or they're actually really having a heart attack. 129 00:06:44,956 --> 00:06:47,836 Speaker 1: So now we're kind of like second guessing ourselves because 130 00:06:47,876 --> 00:06:50,356 Speaker 1: if we take somebody to the calf lab to put 131 00:06:50,356 --> 00:06:53,916 Speaker 1: in an emergent stent and they actually don't have a blockage, 132 00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:57,756 Speaker 1: well then we just exposed potentially six people to an infection. 133 00:06:57,836 --> 00:07:01,036 Speaker 1: And that's anxiety for folking because we know that COVID 134 00:07:01,076 --> 00:07:02,876 Speaker 1: can affect the heart, and you know, we hear, we 135 00:07:02,956 --> 00:07:05,396 Speaker 1: keep hearing over and over again how it affects the 136 00:07:05,436 --> 00:07:07,916 Speaker 1: respiratory of the lungs, but it can affect almost every 137 00:07:08,036 --> 00:07:10,876 Speaker 1: organ system. Seems like you're not just afraid for your 138 00:07:10,916 --> 00:07:13,716 Speaker 1: own health and safety. There's a real fear for first 139 00:07:13,756 --> 00:07:16,196 Speaker 1: responders bringing this home to their family, to their kids, 140 00:07:16,236 --> 00:07:21,036 Speaker 1: to people that they care about, right right, Absolutely, you 141 00:07:21,076 --> 00:07:23,636 Speaker 1: know it's caused a lot of isolation. So you could 142 00:07:23,676 --> 00:07:26,156 Speaker 1: be walking around your house with your family and your 143 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 1: concern is that, well, I could have COVID. I don't 144 00:07:28,716 --> 00:07:30,956 Speaker 1: know yet. I don't have symptoms I certainly don't want 145 00:07:30,956 --> 00:07:32,476 Speaker 1: to give it to my family, And I think that 146 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:35,676 Speaker 1: a lot of people in healthcare first responders are actually 147 00:07:35,716 --> 00:07:38,156 Speaker 1: taking extra measures when they come home at night and 148 00:07:38,236 --> 00:07:41,516 Speaker 1: they maybe in in their own room, or actually some 149 00:07:41,596 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 1: people in healthcare are going and staying in hotels to 150 00:07:44,116 --> 00:07:47,076 Speaker 1: stay away from their families. That's a tough one, and 151 00:07:47,116 --> 00:07:49,076 Speaker 1: so I want to talk about strategies that can come 152 00:07:49,076 --> 00:07:52,396 Speaker 1: from the science for how you and other healthcare professionals 153 00:07:52,396 --> 00:07:54,316 Speaker 1: can regulate some of these emotions. I mean, I think 154 00:07:54,756 --> 00:07:56,796 Speaker 1: maybe the first thing to say is that obviously all 155 00:07:56,796 --> 00:07:59,596 Speaker 1: these emotions, the fear and the anger are completely justified, 156 00:07:59,636 --> 00:08:02,476 Speaker 1: Like it's awful that you're in these situations and you're 157 00:08:02,916 --> 00:08:06,476 Speaker 1: really facing a threat that's like incredibly real, and so 158 00:08:06,516 --> 00:08:08,876 Speaker 1: it makes sense to be afraid. The problem, I think 159 00:08:08,916 --> 00:08:11,156 Speaker 1: is know for doctors, it's also not good to be 160 00:08:11,236 --> 00:08:13,836 Speaker 1: angry and afraid, like it feels yucky and it affects 161 00:08:13,836 --> 00:08:16,596 Speaker 1: your decision making. And so if there was something that 162 00:08:16,596 --> 00:08:18,756 Speaker 1: could be done to regulate those emotions, it seems like 163 00:08:18,756 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 1: it would be a smart thing to do. The story 164 00:08:20,796 --> 00:08:23,716 Speaker 1: I'm always reminded of when I hear tales of healthcare 165 00:08:23,716 --> 00:08:26,316 Speaker 1: workers who are facing this stuff. Is this Buddha's story 166 00:08:26,356 --> 00:08:28,076 Speaker 1: about the second arrow. I don't know if we've talked 167 00:08:28,076 --> 00:08:30,196 Speaker 1: about that before, but you know, this is this idea. 168 00:08:30,236 --> 00:08:32,676 Speaker 1: You know, Buddha's telling his followers the story of you know, 169 00:08:32,676 --> 00:08:34,436 Speaker 1: if you get hit with an arrow, you know, is 170 00:08:34,476 --> 00:08:36,436 Speaker 1: that really bad? And the followers say, yeah, that's terrible. 171 00:08:36,436 --> 00:08:38,396 Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you get with a second arrow 172 00:08:38,396 --> 00:08:40,796 Speaker 1: and a third arrow, is that worse? And the followers say, yeah, 173 00:08:40,836 --> 00:08:42,876 Speaker 1: that's worse. And Buddha goes on to say that, you know, 174 00:08:42,876 --> 00:08:46,076 Speaker 1: the first arrow is the circumstances in life. That's like 175 00:08:46,116 --> 00:08:48,596 Speaker 1: the actual bad things that are happening. You can't control those, 176 00:08:48,956 --> 00:08:50,836 Speaker 1: but in some sense you can try to control the 177 00:08:50,836 --> 00:08:54,636 Speaker 1: second arrow, which is your response to those horrible circumstances. 178 00:08:54,676 --> 00:08:56,956 Speaker 1: And I feel like in healthcare now, it's not an 179 00:08:57,036 --> 00:08:59,156 Speaker 1: arrow like you all are getting shot with like AK 180 00:08:59,316 --> 00:09:01,156 Speaker 1: forty seven, like you know, like the first arrow is 181 00:09:01,236 --> 00:09:03,996 Speaker 1: much bigger than like a regular arrow. But I think 182 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:06,996 Speaker 1: there's still there's still a world where there are strategies 183 00:09:06,996 --> 00:09:09,316 Speaker 1: that could be useful to regulate these emotion and so 184 00:09:09,356 --> 00:09:11,436 Speaker 1: I think it's really important. And you know, one that 185 00:09:11,436 --> 00:09:13,196 Speaker 1: I've been talking with a lot of folks about is 186 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 1: just this ability to kind of regulate the threat response 187 00:09:17,156 --> 00:09:19,676 Speaker 1: generally like in the body, like what folks can do 188 00:09:19,756 --> 00:09:21,796 Speaker 1: to sort of shut off there or at least kind 189 00:09:21,836 --> 00:09:24,156 Speaker 1: of calm down your sympathetic nervous system a little bit. 190 00:09:24,196 --> 00:09:26,316 Speaker 1: And so can you give me a two seconds on 191 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:28,676 Speaker 1: like the sympathetic nervous system and just like fight or 192 00:09:28,676 --> 00:09:31,516 Speaker 1: flight response. I mean I could do it too. You're 193 00:09:31,556 --> 00:09:37,156 Speaker 1: the doctor. So yeah, so the fight or flight response 194 00:09:37,316 --> 00:09:39,876 Speaker 1: is you know, I deal with that quite a bit, 195 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:43,676 Speaker 1: and you know, honestly, it means actually, I can't tell 196 00:09:43,676 --> 00:09:46,076 Speaker 1: you how often that comes up in cardiology, where you know, 197 00:09:46,196 --> 00:09:48,436 Speaker 1: your blood pressure goes up, your heart starts to race, 198 00:09:48,676 --> 00:09:52,076 Speaker 1: you know, again, you start taking blood away from various 199 00:09:53,516 --> 00:09:57,716 Speaker 1: peripheral types of otteries. So it's really again that heightened 200 00:09:57,756 --> 00:10:02,076 Speaker 1: sense of awareness. Hopefully, though, that's only a very brief response, 201 00:10:02,316 --> 00:10:04,676 Speaker 1: and you don't want to be in that that mode 202 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:08,316 Speaker 1: for a long period of time because it's very detrimental. Right. 203 00:10:08,356 --> 00:10:10,196 Speaker 1: You know, you may be able to do that quickly 204 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:12,996 Speaker 1: and it may save your life, but if you're doing 205 00:10:12,996 --> 00:10:15,036 Speaker 1: that the whole time, it's not saving your life. It's 206 00:10:15,116 --> 00:10:16,996 Speaker 1: usually going to hurt you. And the beauty is that 207 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:19,076 Speaker 1: even though for the most part, we can't really take 208 00:10:19,156 --> 00:10:21,676 Speaker 1: much action on our autonomic nervous system other than like 209 00:10:21,716 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 1: removing the threats that are out there, which you know, 210 00:10:23,836 --> 00:10:26,276 Speaker 1: obviously if we could do that with COVID nineteen we would. 211 00:10:26,596 --> 00:10:28,476 Speaker 1: But the beauty is there is one way that we 212 00:10:28,516 --> 00:10:30,996 Speaker 1: can kind of chill out our sympathetic nervous system, and 213 00:10:31,036 --> 00:10:33,196 Speaker 1: that is through our breath. You know, the action of 214 00:10:33,276 --> 00:10:36,116 Speaker 1: kind of taking you know, a couple deep breaths, you know, 215 00:10:36,196 --> 00:10:38,796 Speaker 1: especially deep belly breaths where you're going really slow and 216 00:10:38,836 --> 00:10:41,836 Speaker 1: breathing not into your chest, into your belly. That can 217 00:10:41,876 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 1: actually activate the parasympathetic nervous system. And the act of 218 00:10:45,676 --> 00:10:48,796 Speaker 1: doing that, we know, can regulate again these emotions that 219 00:10:48,836 --> 00:10:51,796 Speaker 1: the catecholamine system are signaling, like you know, that fight response, 220 00:10:51,836 --> 00:10:54,156 Speaker 1: which is all this anger and those kinds of emotions, 221 00:10:54,396 --> 00:10:56,356 Speaker 1: or even the fleeting response, which is the fear and 222 00:10:56,396 --> 00:10:58,996 Speaker 1: the anxiety and that panic. Just the act of taking 223 00:10:58,996 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 1: those deep breaths can really make a difference. Do you 224 00:11:01,356 --> 00:11:03,996 Speaker 1: think that's something that kind of doctors and the trenches 225 00:11:03,996 --> 00:11:07,436 Speaker 1: could potentially use in this time? Yeah? I think you 226 00:11:07,436 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: know that that type of breathing is very important, and 227 00:11:09,956 --> 00:11:12,836 Speaker 1: in fact, patients in the office where you know, again 228 00:11:12,876 --> 00:11:15,276 Speaker 1: they come in their blood pressures up, the heart maybe racing, 229 00:11:15,356 --> 00:11:17,796 Speaker 1: and I will go through that. Sometimes you can bring 230 00:11:17,796 --> 00:11:19,876 Speaker 1: the blood pressure down by just twenty points that way, 231 00:11:19,916 --> 00:11:23,036 Speaker 1: So you know, again, activating the vagal nerve and the 232 00:11:23,076 --> 00:11:26,716 Speaker 1: parasitic sympathetic nervous system can be one of our best 233 00:11:26,756 --> 00:11:30,796 Speaker 1: allies to combat the increased adrenaline and the fight or 234 00:11:30,796 --> 00:11:33,196 Speaker 1: flight response, which I think is important. I mean, it's 235 00:11:33,196 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 1: ironic that you say that you do it with your patients, 236 00:11:35,316 --> 00:11:37,276 Speaker 1: but I feel like doctors need to do it with 237 00:11:37,316 --> 00:11:39,316 Speaker 1: each other now, and healthcare professionals need to do it 238 00:11:39,316 --> 00:11:43,236 Speaker 1: for themselves. I have a daily meditation practice, so I 239 00:11:43,636 --> 00:11:46,916 Speaker 1: absolutely and I didn't always have that, and I probably 240 00:11:46,956 --> 00:11:48,716 Speaker 1: would say that it's been more over the last five 241 00:11:48,796 --> 00:11:51,476 Speaker 1: or six years. It's absolutely critical, and it's really made 242 00:11:51,476 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 1: a huge difference in how I'm able to approach things, 243 00:11:54,916 --> 00:11:57,676 Speaker 1: and not just in medicine, in all aspects of life. 244 00:11:58,076 --> 00:12:00,196 Speaker 1: So I want to dig into a second thing that 245 00:12:00,236 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: I hear a lot from medical professionals right now, which 246 00:12:02,636 --> 00:12:05,116 Speaker 1: is how hard it is for them to get self 247 00:12:05,196 --> 00:12:07,836 Speaker 1: care and all these different domains. So I'm thinking about, 248 00:12:08,116 --> 00:12:10,796 Speaker 1: you know, their sleeve, like them eating right and all 249 00:12:10,836 --> 00:12:13,116 Speaker 1: these things. So talk through what you're kind of seeing 250 00:12:13,116 --> 00:12:15,396 Speaker 1: among your colleagues, like in terms of how hard it's 251 00:12:15,396 --> 00:12:18,916 Speaker 1: been to engage with self care during this battle. I'll 252 00:12:18,916 --> 00:12:21,716 Speaker 1: just give it for instance, in terms of nursing. For example, 253 00:12:21,836 --> 00:12:23,876 Speaker 1: you know, some of the nurses that are on these 254 00:12:23,916 --> 00:12:27,996 Speaker 1: COVID units are actually in full regalia or the full 255 00:12:28,196 --> 00:12:32,076 Speaker 1: personal protective equipment, and just by having that on makes 256 00:12:32,076 --> 00:12:34,436 Speaker 1: it really hard to take a break. So you know, 257 00:12:34,516 --> 00:12:38,196 Speaker 1: you've got people that maybe doing your entire eight to 258 00:12:38,236 --> 00:12:41,636 Speaker 1: twelve hours shift on their feet with really not even 259 00:12:41,676 --> 00:12:44,436 Speaker 1: eating well or drinking well. And if you're in that 260 00:12:44,516 --> 00:12:47,756 Speaker 1: situation for eight straight hours at that kind of intensity, 261 00:12:47,996 --> 00:12:50,556 Speaker 1: you've basically got your fight or flight response on the 262 00:12:50,596 --> 00:12:55,156 Speaker 1: whole time, unless you have some adaptive mechanisms to be helpful. 263 00:12:55,596 --> 00:12:57,476 Speaker 1: And then the other thing is is that, no doubt, 264 00:12:57,476 --> 00:12:59,716 Speaker 1: when you're faced with these kind of traumas, trying to 265 00:12:59,756 --> 00:13:02,556 Speaker 1: wind down at night and trying to find the ability 266 00:13:02,596 --> 00:13:05,396 Speaker 1: to kind of be able to decompress to sleep is 267 00:13:05,396 --> 00:13:07,596 Speaker 1: a big problem. And then you know, if people are 268 00:13:07,636 --> 00:13:10,076 Speaker 1: working longer shifts and not get out till late. You know, 269 00:13:10,116 --> 00:13:14,276 Speaker 1: there's sleep is being reduced. You basically you sleep, you 270 00:13:14,316 --> 00:13:16,076 Speaker 1: go to work, and you know, there's not a lot 271 00:13:16,076 --> 00:13:19,676 Speaker 1: of time for people to be necessarily exercising or you know, 272 00:13:19,676 --> 00:13:23,276 Speaker 1: again meditating for an extended period of time. So this 273 00:13:23,796 --> 00:13:28,036 Speaker 1: schedule that is forcing people into is really not one 274 00:13:28,076 --> 00:13:31,676 Speaker 1: that's conducive to self care. And so I guess, you know, 275 00:13:31,756 --> 00:13:34,436 Speaker 1: from my science of happiness perspective, that advice would be 276 00:13:34,476 --> 00:13:36,876 Speaker 1: that people just need to make some of these things 277 00:13:36,916 --> 00:13:40,436 Speaker 1: non negotiable, you know, especially sleep and rest, exercise, you know, 278 00:13:40,516 --> 00:13:42,916 Speaker 1: healthy eating. I mean, these are the things that we 279 00:13:42,996 --> 00:13:45,076 Speaker 1: need to double down on when our mental health is 280 00:13:45,076 --> 00:13:47,076 Speaker 1: in jeopardy. I mean, they're also the things we need 281 00:13:47,076 --> 00:13:49,396 Speaker 1: to double down on when our immune system, you know, 282 00:13:49,796 --> 00:13:52,116 Speaker 1: needs a little rev up too. Right, So this is 283 00:13:52,156 --> 00:13:54,636 Speaker 1: exactly the time when healthcare workers need to protect their 284 00:13:54,636 --> 00:13:57,596 Speaker 1: immune system with all these different practices, and they're not 285 00:13:57,676 --> 00:13:59,516 Speaker 1: doing that. And so what would it look like on 286 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:01,916 Speaker 1: the front lines to really make these things non negotiable 287 00:14:01,996 --> 00:14:05,156 Speaker 1: right now? That's a real challenge because you know, we 288 00:14:05,196 --> 00:14:10,476 Speaker 1: don't have reinforcements or actually currently asking doctors and people 289 00:14:10,476 --> 00:14:13,436 Speaker 1: that have been out of medicine or maybe you've been retired. 290 00:14:13,476 --> 00:14:16,636 Speaker 1: We're asking for volunteers to fill in, so we're really 291 00:14:16,676 --> 00:14:20,676 Speaker 1: out of place where you know, it's it's survival mode unfortunately, 292 00:14:20,796 --> 00:14:22,716 Speaker 1: and you know, you can't be in growth mode when 293 00:14:22,716 --> 00:14:25,196 Speaker 1: you're in survival mode. And that's that's the real challenge. 294 00:14:25,476 --> 00:14:26,956 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the reasons I was excited to 295 00:14:26,956 --> 00:14:28,956 Speaker 1: have you on the show is I feel like you've 296 00:14:28,956 --> 00:14:31,356 Speaker 1: been really good at practicing what you preach eating during 297 00:14:31,396 --> 00:14:34,396 Speaker 1: tough time. So eventually folks are going to come home 298 00:14:34,436 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 1: from these long shifts, like what can they do ahead 299 00:14:36,876 --> 00:14:39,316 Speaker 1: of time to prioritize sleep? I think simple things like 300 00:14:39,596 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: you know, staying off the internet when you get home, 301 00:14:41,996 --> 00:14:44,516 Speaker 1: you know, positive sleep habits like you know, putting the 302 00:14:44,516 --> 00:14:46,556 Speaker 1: phone away, you know, and trying to get to bed. 303 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:49,516 Speaker 1: Maybe even healthy eating like not eating a huge crazy 304 00:14:49,516 --> 00:14:51,556 Speaker 1: meal or drinking. Like what does it look like in 305 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:54,156 Speaker 1: your own life to prioritize some of these things? Yeah, no, 306 00:14:54,276 --> 00:14:57,156 Speaker 1: I actually I usually eat pretty healthy, but over the 307 00:14:57,236 --> 00:14:59,476 Speaker 1: last four weeks, I don't think that I could eat 308 00:14:59,556 --> 00:15:03,236 Speaker 1: much healthier. I have been like ridiculous every day. It's 309 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:06,396 Speaker 1: been regimented, and you know, lots of fruits and vegetables, 310 00:15:06,396 --> 00:15:09,236 Speaker 1: and not some beans and lots of water, and and 311 00:15:09,316 --> 00:15:13,076 Speaker 1: I have really, I've really tried to actually mentally prepare 312 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 1: and physically prepare in such a way that's really important. 313 00:15:16,196 --> 00:15:19,236 Speaker 1: So eating healthy is not just good for our physical wellbeing, 314 00:15:19,316 --> 00:15:21,316 Speaker 1: but we do know that it's good for your mental wellbeing. 315 00:15:21,436 --> 00:15:24,076 Speaker 1: So if you're coming home and eating, you know, sugary 316 00:15:24,156 --> 00:15:27,876 Speaker 1: snacks or having a bunch of drinks, it's first of all, 317 00:15:27,876 --> 00:15:29,996 Speaker 1: those things are going to interrupt your sleep. You're not 318 00:15:29,996 --> 00:15:32,356 Speaker 1: going to sleep well, you're not going to feel any better, 319 00:15:32,356 --> 00:15:34,516 Speaker 1: and you won't be prepared. So you know, again, I 320 00:15:35,036 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 1: personally really believe that the work that I did beforehand 321 00:15:39,116 --> 00:15:40,676 Speaker 1: to get me in the space to be able to 322 00:15:40,716 --> 00:15:43,916 Speaker 1: eat healthy in regiment that has been important sleep by 323 00:15:43,996 --> 00:15:46,916 Speaker 1: making sure that you know seven hours and you know, 324 00:15:46,956 --> 00:15:49,676 Speaker 1: trying to balance all those things is always still a 325 00:15:49,756 --> 00:15:52,276 Speaker 1: challenge because again, next week, some of those things may 326 00:15:52,716 --> 00:15:54,396 Speaker 1: not be completely in my hands. But I'm going to 327 00:15:54,436 --> 00:15:56,996 Speaker 1: have to do the best I can within those circumstances 328 00:15:56,996 --> 00:15:59,316 Speaker 1: of what I've prepared to do. I love two things 329 00:15:59,316 --> 00:16:01,156 Speaker 1: that you said there I think are so important. One 330 00:16:01,276 --> 00:16:03,436 Speaker 1: is this idea that you know, even if the system 331 00:16:03,556 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 1: is against us, there's still a lot of things that 332 00:16:05,716 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 1: we can control. You know, there's still a lot of 333 00:16:07,756 --> 00:16:10,116 Speaker 1: agency that you can take over what you're putting into 334 00:16:10,116 --> 00:16:12,036 Speaker 1: your body, over how you're going to bed and when 335 00:16:12,036 --> 00:16:14,316 Speaker 1: you're going to bed. But I also like that there's 336 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:16,716 Speaker 1: some self compassion there, right, Like you said, you're going 337 00:16:16,716 --> 00:16:18,156 Speaker 1: to do the best you can, and it might not 338 00:16:18,236 --> 00:16:20,756 Speaker 1: be as good as it was before. But even those 339 00:16:20,796 --> 00:16:23,916 Speaker 1: baby steps that healthcare workers can take right now, even 340 00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:27,236 Speaker 1: though you know, increasing your sleep by fifteen minutes, or 341 00:16:27,316 --> 00:16:29,036 Speaker 1: you know, grabbing a piece of fruit instead of a 342 00:16:29,036 --> 00:16:31,436 Speaker 1: candy bar, like those small changes are actually going to 343 00:16:31,516 --> 00:16:33,356 Speaker 1: have a big difference on your health but also on 344 00:16:33,396 --> 00:16:35,836 Speaker 1: your mental health right now. And so these baby steps 345 00:16:35,836 --> 00:16:38,836 Speaker 1: can be so important. Yeah, I've also and this happened. 346 00:16:38,876 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 1: I've done this before. In various weeks that get busy, 347 00:16:41,756 --> 00:16:44,236 Speaker 1: I make sure that I exercise. I'll do a four 348 00:16:44,396 --> 00:16:46,836 Speaker 1: or seven minute workout. I make sure I walk as 349 00:16:46,876 --> 00:16:49,396 Speaker 1: much as I possibly can, you know, and that and 350 00:16:49,436 --> 00:16:51,516 Speaker 1: that can be a good way to distress coming home 351 00:16:51,556 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: after work. You know, maybe my workout in the morning 352 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:56,996 Speaker 1: isn't as long, maybe my meditation and practice is cut 353 00:16:57,036 --> 00:16:59,556 Speaker 1: a little bit in half, or some of the stretching 354 00:16:59,556 --> 00:17:01,956 Speaker 1: that I do. Instead of doing you thirty seconds to 355 00:17:02,036 --> 00:17:04,116 Speaker 1: jump in jacks, I'll do ten. But trying to make 356 00:17:04,156 --> 00:17:07,356 Speaker 1: sure that I still maintain that because that actually has 357 00:17:07,396 --> 00:17:08,996 Speaker 1: made a big difference for me in the past when 358 00:17:08,996 --> 00:17:11,636 Speaker 1: I been in situations where I've had to alter the 359 00:17:11,676 --> 00:17:14,076 Speaker 1: way I do things in order to fit the time 360 00:17:14,316 --> 00:17:17,556 Speaker 1: the timeframe. So in addition to the issues with finding 361 00:17:17,556 --> 00:17:20,156 Speaker 1: ways to prioritize self care, I think we also have 362 00:17:20,196 --> 00:17:23,276 Speaker 1: to just recognize that healthcare workers, especially healthcare workers who 363 00:17:23,316 --> 00:17:25,076 Speaker 1: are on the front lines of this virus, are seeing 364 00:17:25,436 --> 00:17:28,716 Speaker 1: an incredible amount of suffering. I mean, healthcare workers obviously 365 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:31,516 Speaker 1: face life or death situations in some cases all the time, 366 00:17:31,556 --> 00:17:33,596 Speaker 1: but in some ways it's different now. So I want 367 00:17:33,636 --> 00:17:35,556 Speaker 1: you to talk a little bit through the differences and 368 00:17:35,796 --> 00:17:38,556 Speaker 1: the way that suffering is kind of affecting people psychologically. 369 00:17:39,436 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 1: It's the difference between drinking from the FATA and drinking 370 00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:45,356 Speaker 1: from the from the fire hydrant. Right now, you know, 371 00:17:45,396 --> 00:17:47,316 Speaker 1: as you can see what's happened in New York, and 372 00:17:47,356 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 1: I have friends of mine down there, and the overall 373 00:17:50,436 --> 00:17:54,076 Speaker 1: volume of suffering is on a level that we've never 374 00:17:54,156 --> 00:17:57,356 Speaker 1: had to see, you know, I've heard stories and you know, 375 00:17:57,436 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 1: very heart wrenching things. You know that it was really 376 00:17:59,556 --> 00:18:02,076 Speaker 1: sad for me to see that the er doctor in 377 00:18:02,196 --> 00:18:04,996 Speaker 1: New Jersey actually passed away from this. You know my 378 00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 1: experience when I was a resident in the a Medical 379 00:18:08,516 --> 00:18:13,156 Speaker 1: Intensive United a very very busy tertiary care hospital at Tufts. 380 00:18:13,156 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: You know, we would see lots of sick people, but 381 00:18:15,396 --> 00:18:17,996 Speaker 1: it was always even on your worst night, it was kind. 382 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:21,076 Speaker 1: You could still get through it. It was manageable. It 383 00:18:21,156 --> 00:18:23,916 Speaker 1: wasn't enjoyable because you were dealing with some sick people 384 00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:26,956 Speaker 1: and unfortunately, people die in those settings. But I think 385 00:18:26,996 --> 00:18:30,876 Speaker 1: that the volume is so high that it's just so 386 00:18:30,996 --> 00:18:33,836 Speaker 1: loud out there in terms of, you know, the suffering 387 00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:36,076 Speaker 1: that's going on. I mean, we can even hear it, 388 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:38,076 Speaker 1: you know here in New Haven, and friends of mine 389 00:18:38,076 --> 00:18:39,796 Speaker 1: in New York they say, you know, it's all you 390 00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:42,356 Speaker 1: can hear the sirens, right, you know, and that's what 391 00:18:42,436 --> 00:18:44,476 Speaker 1: we're hearing. And it's scary. I can't imagine what it's 392 00:18:44,516 --> 00:18:46,116 Speaker 1: like to be on the other side of those sirens 393 00:18:46,116 --> 00:18:48,156 Speaker 1: and be dealing with those people when they're coming in. 394 00:18:48,236 --> 00:18:50,796 Speaker 1: And so, I mean, the good news though, is I 395 00:18:50,836 --> 00:18:52,716 Speaker 1: think the science really gives us a clear thing that 396 00:18:52,716 --> 00:18:55,276 Speaker 1: we can do about that point, in particular, the sort 397 00:18:55,316 --> 00:18:58,036 Speaker 1: of dealing with other people suffering, and it comes from 398 00:18:58,036 --> 00:19:00,036 Speaker 1: a form of meditation. I know, like you're a big 399 00:19:00,156 --> 00:19:03,356 Speaker 1: practitioner of meditation, but the particular kind of meditation I 400 00:19:03,396 --> 00:19:05,636 Speaker 1: think can be really powerful right now for dealing with 401 00:19:05,676 --> 00:19:07,956 Speaker 1: that kind of suffering is a form of meditation known 402 00:19:07,956 --> 00:19:10,756 Speaker 1: as loving kindness. So this is a kind of meditation 403 00:19:10,796 --> 00:19:13,156 Speaker 1: we've talked a little bit about before on the podcast, 404 00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:15,236 Speaker 1: but it's a form of meditation where rather than just 405 00:19:15,276 --> 00:19:18,316 Speaker 1: focus on your breath, you try to pay attention to 406 00:19:18,516 --> 00:19:21,356 Speaker 1: what it feels like to experience compassion, and you do 407 00:19:21,436 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 1: that through a set of different mantras. You think about 408 00:19:23,516 --> 00:19:25,836 Speaker 1: people in your life and you wish them health. You say, 409 00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:28,076 Speaker 1: may you be healthy, may you be safe, and you 410 00:19:28,156 --> 00:19:30,036 Speaker 1: kind of just like watch your body in terms of 411 00:19:30,076 --> 00:19:32,156 Speaker 1: what it feels when you're doing that. And what the 412 00:19:32,236 --> 00:19:34,956 Speaker 1: data suggests is that that kind of meditation can bump 413 00:19:35,076 --> 00:19:37,996 Speaker 1: up your emotion of compassion. But in doing so, it 414 00:19:38,036 --> 00:19:40,916 Speaker 1: does this incredible thing where rather than see other people 415 00:19:40,996 --> 00:19:43,996 Speaker 1: suffering in this awful way, where you're kind of taking 416 00:19:43,996 --> 00:19:46,956 Speaker 1: on their suffering and feeling it yourself, you actually get 417 00:19:47,356 --> 00:19:49,596 Speaker 1: a motivation like almost like a call to arms when 418 00:19:49,596 --> 00:19:52,436 Speaker 1: you see people suffering in these contexts like compassion can 419 00:19:52,476 --> 00:19:55,356 Speaker 1: actually build in a motivation to take action. And the 420 00:19:55,396 --> 00:19:57,916 Speaker 1: amazing thing is research from folks like Tanya Singer suggest 421 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:01,636 Speaker 1: that this practice of loving kindness meditation can reduce burnout, 422 00:20:01,636 --> 00:20:04,996 Speaker 1: particularly in healthcare professionals, because those are the folks that 423 00:20:05,076 --> 00:20:06,716 Speaker 1: you know, if you're just paying attention to other people 424 00:20:06,716 --> 00:20:09,516 Speaker 1: suffering day in and day out, it can really you out. 425 00:20:09,516 --> 00:20:11,956 Speaker 1: And the way that you're talking about and so do 426 00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:13,796 Speaker 1: you think that that's the kind of practice that you know, 427 00:20:13,836 --> 00:20:15,956 Speaker 1: if more healthcare professionals knew about it, they could kind 428 00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:17,196 Speaker 1: of squeeze in. I mean, this is the kind of 429 00:20:17,196 --> 00:20:18,836 Speaker 1: thing you can do two to three minutes a day 430 00:20:18,916 --> 00:20:21,396 Speaker 1: or maybe even in between patients when you walk out 431 00:20:21,396 --> 00:20:22,676 Speaker 1: of the room. You know, you might not be able 432 00:20:22,676 --> 00:20:24,796 Speaker 1: to take your mask off and take a break and 433 00:20:24,836 --> 00:20:27,156 Speaker 1: you know, grab something to eat, but you actually can 434 00:20:27,156 --> 00:20:29,316 Speaker 1: sit there and watch your breath and kind of feel compassion. 435 00:20:29,436 --> 00:20:31,516 Speaker 1: Is that is that something that people could reasonably add 436 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:33,516 Speaker 1: in in this time? I do? I think they can. 437 00:20:34,076 --> 00:20:37,116 Speaker 1: I actually I've kind of adapted my own way of 438 00:20:37,116 --> 00:20:39,356 Speaker 1: doing I do a gratitude meditation and then I kind 439 00:20:39,356 --> 00:20:42,476 Speaker 1: of close it out with may all people be free 440 00:20:42,596 --> 00:20:45,636 Speaker 1: from suffering, So I kind of I roll all of 441 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:48,036 Speaker 1: that together, and it does. It makes a huge difference 442 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 1: for me. I do that every day. You know. I 443 00:20:49,996 --> 00:20:51,916 Speaker 1: do think that with the practice it could be very 444 00:20:51,956 --> 00:20:54,956 Speaker 1: helpful for people, and I agree it does. It does 445 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:57,316 Speaker 1: have a very profound effect to be able to think 446 00:20:57,356 --> 00:21:00,756 Speaker 1: about that. And I think that the gratitude meditation for 447 00:21:00,796 --> 00:21:03,756 Speaker 1: me has been very important because it really causes me 448 00:21:04,156 --> 00:21:06,276 Speaker 1: to go back and look at all aspects of my life. 449 00:21:06,276 --> 00:21:08,716 Speaker 1: And it also helps me to realize that we're not 450 00:21:08,756 --> 00:21:11,476 Speaker 1: alone out there in this and that I kind of 451 00:21:11,476 --> 00:21:13,836 Speaker 1: think that this is almost our you know, as people 452 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:16,356 Speaker 1: face these challenges of World War one, World War two, 453 00:21:16,796 --> 00:21:20,356 Speaker 1: these kind of uncertain times at such an intensity level. 454 00:21:20,796 --> 00:21:23,316 Speaker 1: I really found a little about about my grandfathers, who 455 00:21:23,356 --> 00:21:25,516 Speaker 1: both of them served a World War two, because this 456 00:21:25,596 --> 00:21:28,516 Speaker 1: is the kind of event in our lives that it 457 00:21:28,636 --> 00:21:31,596 Speaker 1: is called us to step up in a way that's 458 00:21:31,716 --> 00:21:34,036 Speaker 1: very different. Yeah, And I love that strategy for beating 459 00:21:34,036 --> 00:21:35,796 Speaker 1: burnout because I mean it does a couple of things. 460 00:21:35,836 --> 00:21:37,956 Speaker 1: One is, you know, if you think about folks who've 461 00:21:37,956 --> 00:21:40,556 Speaker 1: been through things like this before and made it through 462 00:21:40,996 --> 00:21:43,116 Speaker 1: like that. That gives you confidence that you can do 463 00:21:43,156 --> 00:21:45,116 Speaker 1: the same thing right. It's almost like seeing your own 464 00:21:45,156 --> 00:21:47,916 Speaker 1: resilience in the mirror, which is really profound. But also 465 00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:51,276 Speaker 1: I think gratitude can be a complete like medicine for 466 00:21:51,636 --> 00:21:53,876 Speaker 1: the other things we're talking about earlier, things like anger 467 00:21:53,916 --> 00:21:56,196 Speaker 1: and so on. You know, if you're experiencing the things 468 00:21:56,196 --> 00:21:58,036 Speaker 1: in your life that are a blessing or the people 469 00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:00,396 Speaker 1: around you who are doing great things, it can kind 470 00:22:00,396 --> 00:22:02,276 Speaker 1: of curb the anger at parts of the system that 471 00:22:02,316 --> 00:22:04,516 Speaker 1: could be really problematic. Again, not to say that anger 472 00:22:04,596 --> 00:22:07,236 Speaker 1: is not justified. I think it completely is. It's just 473 00:22:07,556 --> 00:22:09,916 Speaker 1: not functional. So anything we can to kind of curb 474 00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:12,316 Speaker 1: it is really helpful. So we focused a little bit 475 00:22:12,316 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 1: on the emotions that people are facing in healthcare right now, 476 00:22:15,836 --> 00:22:17,956 Speaker 1: and also how to deal with some of the suffering 477 00:22:17,996 --> 00:22:20,316 Speaker 1: you're experiencing and some strategies you can use for that. 478 00:22:20,436 --> 00:22:21,996 Speaker 1: When we get back from the break, I think we'll 479 00:22:21,996 --> 00:22:24,756 Speaker 1: talk about the even harder things, like the existential part 480 00:22:24,756 --> 00:22:27,396 Speaker 1: of this challenge of you know, doctors actually facing their 481 00:22:27,436 --> 00:22:28,876 Speaker 1: own death and what they can do to deal with 482 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:31,076 Speaker 1: that challenge. In the best way possible, and so the 483 00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:41,476 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab will be right back. So, Mike, I wanted 484 00:22:41,516 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 1: to focus in on a different struggle that I hear 485 00:22:44,036 --> 00:22:46,596 Speaker 1: a lot of healthcare professionals facing, which is kind of 486 00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:48,516 Speaker 1: more of a personal one, which is, it seems like 487 00:22:48,556 --> 00:22:51,076 Speaker 1: a lot of healthcare professionals are kind of beating themselves 488 00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:53,636 Speaker 1: up right now about a lot of different things, Like 489 00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:57,116 Speaker 1: it's from this kind of survivor's guilt to folks who 490 00:22:57,116 --> 00:22:59,596 Speaker 1: are feeling like, you know, they're they're they're working long 491 00:22:59,636 --> 00:23:01,676 Speaker 1: hours and they're not there for their kids. It seems 492 00:23:01,716 --> 00:23:04,116 Speaker 1: like a lot of the folks I talk to are 493 00:23:04,236 --> 00:23:06,876 Speaker 1: just kind of not giving themselves a compassion they need 494 00:23:06,956 --> 00:23:08,676 Speaker 1: right now. Do you see that as a problem among 495 00:23:08,796 --> 00:23:13,236 Speaker 1: europe colleagues too. Hopefully medicine changes after this in some ways, 496 00:23:13,316 --> 00:23:16,436 Speaker 1: because in general, you know, we've kind of always been 497 00:23:16,476 --> 00:23:19,636 Speaker 1: trained to be like, you suck it up and you know, 498 00:23:19,716 --> 00:23:22,316 Speaker 1: just do your job kind of thing. But there's a 499 00:23:22,476 --> 00:23:24,996 Speaker 1: lot of data out there that you know, about fifty 500 00:23:24,996 --> 00:23:27,916 Speaker 1: percent of doctors before this happened, we're burnt out, and 501 00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:31,116 Speaker 1: that's just doctors in practice, So you know, we're actually 502 00:23:31,436 --> 00:23:33,676 Speaker 1: a group of people that you're One of our biggest 503 00:23:33,756 --> 00:23:37,356 Speaker 1: challenges is self compassion for doctors, the ideas we're supposed 504 00:23:37,396 --> 00:23:39,916 Speaker 1: to be able to use technology keep everybody alive, and 505 00:23:40,276 --> 00:23:43,076 Speaker 1: that that's not going to be possible right now, because 506 00:23:43,196 --> 00:23:45,116 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have control. And I think some 507 00:23:45,196 --> 00:23:48,836 Speaker 1: of this loss of control in a situation where it's 508 00:23:48,876 --> 00:23:52,716 Speaker 1: just so much that's happening, is really negatively affecting people. 509 00:23:52,756 --> 00:23:55,276 Speaker 1: And I do think that people are beating themselves up 510 00:23:55,316 --> 00:23:58,036 Speaker 1: out there. I do see that that's a real concern 511 00:23:58,076 --> 00:24:00,996 Speaker 1: and something that's going to throughout this crisis is going 512 00:24:01,036 --> 00:24:03,156 Speaker 1: to play itself out with a lot of people and 513 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:06,796 Speaker 1: struggling to cope with those things, which I think is 514 00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:11,116 Speaker 1: unfortunate generally because healthcare workers are complete heroes right now 515 00:24:11,116 --> 00:24:13,316 Speaker 1: and it's awful to feel like they're beating themselves up. 516 00:24:13,476 --> 00:24:16,196 Speaker 1: It's also just bad in terms of their competence on 517 00:24:16,236 --> 00:24:18,756 Speaker 1: the job, because of course, if you're second guessing yourself, 518 00:24:18,796 --> 00:24:20,636 Speaker 1: if you're kind of feeling bad about things, that's going 519 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:22,436 Speaker 1: to be a challenge for the kind of care you're giving, 520 00:24:22,436 --> 00:24:25,356 Speaker 1: because that doesn't lend itself well to good decision making. 521 00:24:25,396 --> 00:24:27,956 Speaker 1: If you're kind of constantly second guessing in your head, 522 00:24:28,396 --> 00:24:30,956 Speaker 1: but again here I think the science of happiness can 523 00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:33,996 Speaker 1: help a little bit because there are lots of techniques 524 00:24:33,996 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 1: that folks can use, practices that you can use daily 525 00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:40,036 Speaker 1: to improve self compassion, which I think can be really powerful. 526 00:24:40,676 --> 00:24:43,516 Speaker 1: One of those practices is just a variant on the 527 00:24:43,596 --> 00:24:46,356 Speaker 1: loving kindness meditation that we talked about before. And so 528 00:24:46,396 --> 00:24:49,356 Speaker 1: a typical loving kindness practice is that you're giving compassion 529 00:24:49,396 --> 00:24:51,556 Speaker 1: to all the folks out there, you know, a compassion 530 00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 1: for the world or compassion for the people around you. 531 00:24:54,396 --> 00:24:57,076 Speaker 1: But at one step in that process, you're supposed to 532 00:24:57,076 --> 00:24:59,596 Speaker 1: take a pause and give compassion to yourself. You're supposed 533 00:24:59,636 --> 00:25:01,876 Speaker 1: to say, may I be happy, may I be safe, 534 00:25:01,876 --> 00:25:04,076 Speaker 1: and so on. And what's funny is that that part 535 00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:06,996 Speaker 1: of the process it affects people differently. Like some people 536 00:25:07,196 --> 00:25:08,876 Speaker 1: find that one really easy, and they tend to do 537 00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:11,156 Speaker 1: that and first because it's so easy in their meditation 538 00:25:11,196 --> 00:25:14,396 Speaker 1: to get started with giving compassion to themselves. But you know, 539 00:25:14,436 --> 00:25:16,356 Speaker 1: for me and maybe for other folks, it's kind of 540 00:25:16,396 --> 00:25:18,596 Speaker 1: hard to say that you should be happy, that you 541 00:25:18,636 --> 00:25:20,476 Speaker 1: should be safe, to kind of put yourself in the 542 00:25:20,556 --> 00:25:23,236 Speaker 1: priority list. But my sense is that it's a technique 543 00:25:23,236 --> 00:25:25,836 Speaker 1: that could be really powerful for your physicians right now 544 00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:29,276 Speaker 1: is to not just be worried about the suffering of 545 00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:31,836 Speaker 1: everyone else, but just to be making sure that they're 546 00:25:31,836 --> 00:25:34,356 Speaker 1: giving themselves some compassion and giving themselves the benefit of 547 00:25:34,396 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: the doubt generally, but especially during this really challenging time. Yeah. Absolutely, 548 00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:42,276 Speaker 1: because you can't pour from an empty cup. I used 549 00:25:42,276 --> 00:25:45,116 Speaker 1: to be my own worst critic. By far, there's nobody, 550 00:25:45,236 --> 00:25:47,836 Speaker 1: there's nobody even close to second. But what I realize 551 00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: is when i'd stop bopping myself in the face, that 552 00:25:50,196 --> 00:25:52,996 Speaker 1: actually I was more effective. And I think that, you know, 553 00:25:53,036 --> 00:25:54,876 Speaker 1: one of the things is is that it's not about 554 00:25:54,916 --> 00:25:57,756 Speaker 1: just working harder, it's working smarter and being more compassionate. 555 00:25:57,796 --> 00:26:02,556 Speaker 1: Because the truth is, when you're in a situation where 556 00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:04,716 Speaker 1: you're just like you said, you're going to lock up 557 00:26:04,756 --> 00:26:06,236 Speaker 1: and you're not going to be able to take care 558 00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:09,076 Speaker 1: of those around you, you also will be in situation 559 00:26:09,596 --> 00:26:12,436 Speaker 1: that you're not able to be connected to your family 560 00:26:12,476 --> 00:26:15,716 Speaker 1: because you're just you're just so isolating yourself if you 561 00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,316 Speaker 1: can't be compassionate to yourself, so not only just at work, 562 00:26:18,356 --> 00:26:21,116 Speaker 1: but also at home. The other way clinicians can help 563 00:26:21,116 --> 00:26:24,036 Speaker 1: with self compassion is to remind their colleagues to have 564 00:26:24,076 --> 00:26:26,476 Speaker 1: some self compassion too. I think this is another time 565 00:26:26,476 --> 00:26:30,236 Speaker 1: where you know, reminding your colleagues that you're grateful for them, 566 00:26:30,276 --> 00:26:32,756 Speaker 1: reminding them that they're doing a good job. Like those 567 00:26:32,836 --> 00:26:35,436 Speaker 1: kinds of things can help. If there's someone on your 568 00:26:35,436 --> 00:26:37,956 Speaker 1: team who's having a really hard time with self compassion, 569 00:26:38,556 --> 00:26:41,276 Speaker 1: expressing gratitude, doing these nice things can really help them 570 00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:44,836 Speaker 1: during this really scary time. That's actually something that I've 571 00:26:44,876 --> 00:26:48,836 Speaker 1: seen that's really been remarkable over the last couple of weeks, 572 00:26:48,916 --> 00:26:51,276 Speaker 1: is to see people's ability to reach out to one 573 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:55,036 Speaker 1: another and be supportive. You know. Interestingly, each doctor thinks 574 00:26:55,036 --> 00:26:57,076 Speaker 1: they know more than the other doctor. But actually what 575 00:26:57,076 --> 00:26:58,996 Speaker 1: we've realized now is that we all have to pool 576 00:26:58,996 --> 00:27:01,476 Speaker 1: our resources. That never was true, but that's kind of 577 00:27:01,476 --> 00:27:03,876 Speaker 1: how we've been trained, which makes it a problem. We 578 00:27:03,956 --> 00:27:06,236 Speaker 1: now have to collaborate in a way that we've never 579 00:27:06,276 --> 00:27:08,276 Speaker 1: done before. And I can tell you that it's happened, 580 00:27:08,356 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 1: you know, even even if it's not a phone call. 581 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 1: But you know, I greatly appreciate when I get text 582 00:27:13,756 --> 00:27:16,036 Speaker 1: messages from friends of mine that just say, hey, how 583 00:27:16,036 --> 00:27:19,116 Speaker 1: are you doing, and randomly and just showing up. It's 584 00:27:19,116 --> 00:27:21,796 Speaker 1: just it's being present. I wanted to save the question 585 00:27:21,796 --> 00:27:24,276 Speaker 1: that I'm getting that I've struggled with the most from 586 00:27:24,276 --> 00:27:28,316 Speaker 1: healthcare workers, which is what the science of happiness says 587 00:27:28,356 --> 00:27:31,516 Speaker 1: about kind of these real existential crises that I think 588 00:27:31,556 --> 00:27:34,556 Speaker 1: doctors are facing right now. A lot of people, especially 589 00:27:34,636 --> 00:27:36,756 Speaker 1: doctors in New York who I'm hearing from, you know, 590 00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:40,236 Speaker 1: they're really afraid of dying because they're seeing young people 591 00:27:40,316 --> 00:27:42,796 Speaker 1: that they're taking care of die all the time. Talk 592 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:45,396 Speaker 1: about the impact that kind of seeing death so closely 593 00:27:45,476 --> 00:27:48,236 Speaker 1: has had on physicians and the way it's affecting them 594 00:27:48,276 --> 00:27:50,076 Speaker 1: in terms of their performance and in terms of their 595 00:27:50,116 --> 00:27:54,916 Speaker 1: mental health. Yeah, so in healthcare, we usually deal with 596 00:27:54,956 --> 00:27:58,236 Speaker 1: people that are older, and you know, when you start 597 00:27:58,276 --> 00:28:00,636 Speaker 1: to realize the people that you may be taking care 598 00:28:00,636 --> 00:28:03,556 Speaker 1: of the younger, you have this kind of transference that 599 00:28:03,916 --> 00:28:06,156 Speaker 1: you could put yourself in that bed sort of speak. 600 00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:09,276 Speaker 1: We've never really had to face that. You know, we 601 00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:12,516 Speaker 1: all in some ways think way off in the future. 602 00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 1: You know, twenty five years from now, I'm going to 603 00:28:14,356 --> 00:28:16,316 Speaker 1: be in a situation where you know, I may need 604 00:28:16,316 --> 00:28:18,956 Speaker 1: to face death or face illness in a way. But 605 00:28:19,236 --> 00:28:22,516 Speaker 1: actually that that really caused me over the last couple 606 00:28:22,516 --> 00:28:25,556 Speaker 1: of weeks to rethink that, hey, you know, there is 607 00:28:25,596 --> 00:28:28,476 Speaker 1: a possibility that I could actually get get sick, and 608 00:28:28,956 --> 00:28:33,156 Speaker 1: that has permeated throughout the profession that everybody's asking themselves 609 00:28:33,156 --> 00:28:36,276 Speaker 1: the same question. And you know, again, we have doctors 610 00:28:36,316 --> 00:28:39,116 Speaker 1: that are actually falling into not just the younger doctors, 611 00:28:39,116 --> 00:28:42,436 Speaker 1: but we have doctors in their sixties seventies that you know, again, 612 00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:45,236 Speaker 1: we know based on age that people are at higher 613 00:28:45,276 --> 00:28:48,836 Speaker 1: risk for complications. So truth is is that you know, 614 00:28:48,956 --> 00:28:51,996 Speaker 1: still if a younger, if a younger physician, the chances 615 00:28:51,996 --> 00:28:54,836 Speaker 1: of getting really sick are still very low. And I 616 00:28:54,876 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 1: think that people we still realize the data. The data 617 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:01,796 Speaker 1: says that we're still going to be mostly okay, but 618 00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:04,996 Speaker 1: not everybody. That's just a matter of percentages, right, you know, 619 00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:07,316 Speaker 1: you just don't want to be the unlucky person. But 620 00:29:07,396 --> 00:29:09,516 Speaker 1: we do know that we've asked some of our colleagues 621 00:29:09,516 --> 00:29:12,836 Speaker 1: that are older to continue to practice and put themselves 622 00:29:12,876 --> 00:29:16,356 Speaker 1: at risk, realizing that their risk may be higher. There's 623 00:29:16,396 --> 00:29:19,756 Speaker 1: also doctors and physicians out there and in nurses and 624 00:29:19,876 --> 00:29:24,076 Speaker 1: healthcare that actually have underlying chronic diseases. But now there's 625 00:29:24,076 --> 00:29:26,556 Speaker 1: a huge concern to say, well, what happens if I 626 00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:28,916 Speaker 1: get sick. And I think that it's really caused a 627 00:29:28,956 --> 00:29:31,596 Speaker 1: lot of people to relook and say, you know, this 628 00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:37,876 Speaker 1: profession is a calling. There there is um you know, 629 00:29:37,956 --> 00:29:42,116 Speaker 1: to be a doctor is, or to be in healthcare 630 00:29:42,196 --> 00:29:45,396 Speaker 1: to care for other people. It's beyond a job. And 631 00:29:45,436 --> 00:29:48,276 Speaker 1: I've never looked at it that way. And it is 632 00:29:48,716 --> 00:29:51,596 Speaker 1: showing up in ways that you know when people need 633 00:29:51,636 --> 00:29:53,916 Speaker 1: you to be there. And I think that at this point, 634 00:29:54,076 --> 00:29:57,156 Speaker 1: even physicians that I think that you know may have 635 00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:00,596 Speaker 1: higher risk of having a complication, I can tell you 636 00:30:00,756 --> 00:30:04,196 Speaker 1: that they almost universally are saying that they're going to 637 00:30:04,236 --> 00:30:08,356 Speaker 1: show up in the face of danger. And that's courage, right, 638 00:30:08,396 --> 00:30:11,436 Speaker 1: you show up, You show up even though you know 639 00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:15,396 Speaker 1: you may be in danger. That's courage. And we usually 640 00:30:15,396 --> 00:30:20,156 Speaker 1: have equated that with our police officers, with our firefighters 641 00:30:20,396 --> 00:30:23,636 Speaker 1: or our soldiers. But this is really the first time 642 00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:26,516 Speaker 1: that we've really had to answer that calling in a 643 00:30:26,556 --> 00:30:28,556 Speaker 1: way that in the face of danger, and people are 644 00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:30,596 Speaker 1: doing it, and they're doing it in such a way 645 00:30:30,996 --> 00:30:33,836 Speaker 1: that is really powerful and is really going to bring 646 00:30:33,876 --> 00:30:37,436 Speaker 1: physicians across the world together at a time that it's necessary. 647 00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:40,476 Speaker 1: And I've said this before. You know, doctors largely have 648 00:30:40,556 --> 00:30:43,916 Speaker 1: kind of gone to work and done their job and 649 00:30:43,996 --> 00:30:47,316 Speaker 1: work really hard for their patients, but we haven't really 650 00:30:47,356 --> 00:30:49,836 Speaker 1: been great advocating for the things that really need to 651 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:52,476 Speaker 1: change out there. And I think that this is actually 652 00:30:52,796 --> 00:30:57,716 Speaker 1: going to really solidify doctors as a voice that's going 653 00:30:57,756 --> 00:30:59,796 Speaker 1: to need to be heard from now on. And I 654 00:31:00,356 --> 00:31:02,996 Speaker 1: I love your answer to that question because I think 655 00:31:03,036 --> 00:31:06,396 Speaker 1: that what the science suggests is that you're doing exactly 656 00:31:06,436 --> 00:31:08,596 Speaker 1: the right thing to do when you're facing a big 657 00:31:08,596 --> 00:31:11,596 Speaker 1: existential crisis, which is to double down on the things 658 00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:14,916 Speaker 1: that you find important, that you find meaningful, that give 659 00:31:14,956 --> 00:31:17,316 Speaker 1: you purpose in life. And it's a strategy that I 660 00:31:17,316 --> 00:31:19,356 Speaker 1: think doctors can use right now to kind of face 661 00:31:19,436 --> 00:31:22,996 Speaker 1: this existential threat with some dignity right to see, you know, 662 00:31:23,076 --> 00:31:25,276 Speaker 1: this is the reason that you jumped into this, because 663 00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 1: you are courageous, because it mattered a lot, because you 664 00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:29,676 Speaker 1: know it was a calling, and so I think it 665 00:31:29,716 --> 00:31:31,396 Speaker 1: can be really powerful to kind of look at it 666 00:31:31,436 --> 00:31:33,556 Speaker 1: from that perspective, to realize that you know, that's what 667 00:31:33,636 --> 00:31:35,796 Speaker 1: this is about. And I love the idea that you 668 00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:38,636 Speaker 1: know that doctors are realizing that they might even have 669 00:31:38,716 --> 00:31:41,276 Speaker 1: more of a voice than they thought before. Right the 670 00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:43,036 Speaker 1: idea that when we get out of this mess now, 671 00:31:43,116 --> 00:31:45,156 Speaker 1: doctors will maybe have a voice to fix the things 672 00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:47,476 Speaker 1: in their professions that we're going wrong, or kind of 673 00:31:47,516 --> 00:31:49,836 Speaker 1: make things better for the next generation of doctors. All 674 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:52,436 Speaker 1: those deep, meaningful things are the kinds of things that 675 00:31:52,516 --> 00:31:55,356 Speaker 1: psychologically speaking, get you through an existential crisis. So the 676 00:31:55,396 --> 00:31:57,636 Speaker 1: more that doctors can double down on those big picture 677 00:31:57,676 --> 00:32:00,436 Speaker 1: things right now, I think all the better. Another cool 678 00:32:00,476 --> 00:32:02,516 Speaker 1: thing I saw when I was looking more about the 679 00:32:02,556 --> 00:32:04,876 Speaker 1: work on you know, people who work in palliative care 680 00:32:04,916 --> 00:32:06,596 Speaker 1: and see a lot of suffering and see a lot 681 00:32:06,596 --> 00:32:08,756 Speaker 1: of death, is that it turns out that the act 682 00:32:08,796 --> 00:32:12,676 Speaker 1: of ing death in your profession actually has in some 683 00:32:12,756 --> 00:32:15,516 Speaker 1: cases can have a strong benefit to your mental health 684 00:32:15,596 --> 00:32:17,756 Speaker 1: because what it does is it allows you to have 685 00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:20,516 Speaker 1: this greater appreciation for a life. So nurses who work 686 00:32:20,516 --> 00:32:23,396 Speaker 1: in palliative care report that they've gotten so many benefits 687 00:32:23,396 --> 00:32:25,796 Speaker 1: out of this because they savor their own life so 688 00:32:25,916 --> 00:32:27,996 Speaker 1: much more, and they don't take things for granted in 689 00:32:28,036 --> 00:32:30,356 Speaker 1: a way that they say they did before they started 690 00:32:30,396 --> 00:32:33,156 Speaker 1: working in that. And so I wonder if again, in 691 00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:34,876 Speaker 1: the midst of all this suffering, there might be a 692 00:32:34,916 --> 00:32:37,876 Speaker 1: real benefit to the people who are in the trenches 693 00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:39,596 Speaker 1: right now, one that you might not see now, but 694 00:32:39,876 --> 00:32:41,636 Speaker 1: after you get out of this, it will cause you 695 00:32:41,676 --> 00:32:44,116 Speaker 1: to look at life in a completely different way. And 696 00:32:44,436 --> 00:32:47,196 Speaker 1: that kind of appreciation is pretty rare. You know, we 697 00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:49,236 Speaker 1: should all have that kind of appreciation, but we don't. 698 00:32:49,236 --> 00:32:51,996 Speaker 1: And so the opportunity to see that so closely might 699 00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:55,116 Speaker 1: bring a powerful mental health benefit that healthcare workers don't 700 00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:58,636 Speaker 1: expect in the years to come. Yeah, I agree with that. 701 00:32:58,716 --> 00:33:02,196 Speaker 1: I think that it's really important for us to be 702 00:33:02,316 --> 00:33:05,276 Speaker 1: able to think about that. And I've meditated that. I 703 00:33:05,836 --> 00:33:09,916 Speaker 1: had that meditation before. Just imagine that today, your last day. 704 00:33:10,036 --> 00:33:11,756 Speaker 1: And I think that what it does is it really 705 00:33:11,796 --> 00:33:17,916 Speaker 1: puts things in perspective that you start to put what's 706 00:33:17,956 --> 00:33:21,076 Speaker 1: really important in your life together. And I do think 707 00:33:21,116 --> 00:33:23,636 Speaker 1: that this has caused us all to hit the pause button. 708 00:33:24,196 --> 00:33:27,356 Speaker 1: You know, we've taken our environment for granted, We've taken 709 00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:31,476 Speaker 1: people for granted, right, you know, we've really placed unfortunately 710 00:33:31,516 --> 00:33:34,596 Speaker 1: certain times, we've put you know, money or technology in 711 00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:37,516 Speaker 1: front of people. That hurts. That hurts as a physician 712 00:33:37,596 --> 00:33:40,516 Speaker 1: to see that certain certain populations are going to be 713 00:33:40,556 --> 00:33:43,836 Speaker 1: more vulnerable with this. But I do think that you're 714 00:33:43,916 --> 00:33:47,556 Speaker 1: taking stock of all the things and all the blessings 715 00:33:47,556 --> 00:33:50,156 Speaker 1: and all the things that really matter is going to 716 00:33:50,236 --> 00:33:52,316 Speaker 1: make a big difference afterwards. And I do think the 717 00:33:52,356 --> 00:33:56,116 Speaker 1: world be kinder and more mindful after this happens, not 718 00:33:56,396 --> 00:33:59,716 Speaker 1: during There is going to be great suffering, and so 719 00:33:59,996 --> 00:34:02,796 Speaker 1: you know, I think that the world will change, no doubt. 720 00:34:03,436 --> 00:34:05,676 Speaker 1: It's been great that you've been able to see these 721 00:34:05,716 --> 00:34:08,076 Speaker 1: deep benefits into get meaning out of these things. But 722 00:34:08,156 --> 00:34:10,436 Speaker 1: I just wanted to add one strategy for any of 723 00:34:10,436 --> 00:34:13,196 Speaker 1: our healthcare workers or first responders who are really struggling 724 00:34:13,196 --> 00:34:15,596 Speaker 1: with how to do that. And this comes from a 725 00:34:15,716 --> 00:34:18,076 Speaker 1: scientist that we interviewed during the first season of our podcast, 726 00:34:18,196 --> 00:34:20,596 Speaker 1: Jamie Pennebaker, and he does a lot of work on 727 00:34:20,636 --> 00:34:22,996 Speaker 1: the power of journaling for allowing you to kind of 728 00:34:22,996 --> 00:34:26,116 Speaker 1: get to these self transcendent emotions. And so what he's 729 00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:27,996 Speaker 1: found is that just the act of taking time to 730 00:34:28,036 --> 00:34:30,556 Speaker 1: sit down and talk about your write down about your situation, 731 00:34:30,596 --> 00:34:32,596 Speaker 1: write down what you're feeling, it can kind of get 732 00:34:32,636 --> 00:34:34,796 Speaker 1: you to that that bigger picture, to kind of see 733 00:34:34,836 --> 00:34:36,516 Speaker 1: the big purpose in it, to see that these things 734 00:34:36,516 --> 00:34:38,716 Speaker 1: are you're calling and to see where you're getting your courage, 735 00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:40,516 Speaker 1: or even just to take a kind of more future 736 00:34:40,556 --> 00:34:43,436 Speaker 1: perspective on things. It can allow you to make sense 737 00:34:43,436 --> 00:34:45,836 Speaker 1: of these things that feel really out of control. So 738 00:34:46,156 --> 00:34:48,076 Speaker 1: if you're listening out there and you need a good 739 00:34:48,116 --> 00:34:50,556 Speaker 1: technique to get to the point that Mike has so 740 00:34:50,676 --> 00:34:52,796 Speaker 1: well through his meditation practice and all the work that 741 00:34:52,836 --> 00:34:55,076 Speaker 1: he's done, you know, just sitting down to scribble it 742 00:34:55,116 --> 00:34:57,356 Speaker 1: down and journal it can be really powerful, And that 743 00:34:57,396 --> 00:34:59,916 Speaker 1: can be a great technique to add into a routine 744 00:34:59,996 --> 00:35:01,716 Speaker 1: or even as a ritual at the end of the day. 745 00:35:01,876 --> 00:35:04,156 Speaker 1: You know, scribbling down your feelings is a great thing 746 00:35:04,156 --> 00:35:05,996 Speaker 1: to do even before maybe you go to bed, because 747 00:35:05,996 --> 00:35:07,756 Speaker 1: you can kind of get it out on paper and 748 00:35:07,836 --> 00:35:10,196 Speaker 1: let your brain process to something else that you can 749 00:35:10,196 --> 00:35:12,756 Speaker 1: fall asleep too. But I wanted to end with asking 750 00:35:12,996 --> 00:35:16,156 Speaker 1: you know, this isn't an awful crisis and people really 751 00:35:16,196 --> 00:35:18,596 Speaker 1: are suffering in you know, as I said when we 752 00:35:18,636 --> 00:35:20,876 Speaker 1: started in my metaphor about the second arrow, I think 753 00:35:20,876 --> 00:35:23,716 Speaker 1: it's not a first arrow that our physicians are getting 754 00:35:23,796 --> 00:35:25,796 Speaker 1: hit with right now. It's like an AK forty seven. 755 00:35:25,956 --> 00:35:28,476 Speaker 1: But do you think that through the through some of 756 00:35:28,516 --> 00:35:30,916 Speaker 1: these interventions, we can make it a little bit better. Again, 757 00:35:30,996 --> 00:35:33,676 Speaker 1: not perfect, but but these are things that physicians can 758 00:35:33,716 --> 00:35:36,636 Speaker 1: do to improve things at least a little bit during 759 00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:42,076 Speaker 1: this challenging time. Yeah. Absolutely. My friend George Mumford, who 760 00:35:42,196 --> 00:35:44,516 Speaker 1: is I spoke with a week ago, who is a 761 00:35:44,556 --> 00:35:48,636 Speaker 1: meditation and mindfulness specialist, you know, he is the concept 762 00:35:48,676 --> 00:35:51,476 Speaker 1: of the eye of the hurricane. And you know, I 763 00:35:51,516 --> 00:35:53,676 Speaker 1: think that that's the important thing. Can you be the 764 00:35:53,716 --> 00:35:56,636 Speaker 1: calm within the storm? You know, ultimately, you know the 765 00:35:56,676 --> 00:35:58,956 Speaker 1: storm is going to be there and there is no 766 00:35:58,996 --> 00:36:02,636 Speaker 1: way to wish this away. But it is our ability 767 00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:06,236 Speaker 1: to stay calm and peaceful despite the things that are happening. 768 00:36:06,636 --> 00:36:09,876 Speaker 1: And also actually you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable, 769 00:36:09,996 --> 00:36:12,796 Speaker 1: and also you have to allow yourself to not be 770 00:36:12,876 --> 00:36:15,236 Speaker 1: perfect on all of those things, because I think that 771 00:36:15,716 --> 00:36:18,316 Speaker 1: you know, it's not about pushing emotions away, It's about 772 00:36:18,396 --> 00:36:20,796 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just sitting there with that. You know. I was, 773 00:36:20,916 --> 00:36:22,316 Speaker 1: I was out for a walk the other day and 774 00:36:23,036 --> 00:36:24,956 Speaker 1: there was a certain amount of sadness that just kind 775 00:36:24,996 --> 00:36:27,596 Speaker 1: of came up out of the blue, and I just sat, 776 00:36:27,676 --> 00:36:29,636 Speaker 1: I just was there with it. I let it go, 777 00:36:29,996 --> 00:36:32,476 Speaker 1: and then eventually it passed away, you know, it just 778 00:36:32,556 --> 00:36:34,916 Speaker 1: moved and you know, one of the things is is 779 00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:37,676 Speaker 1: our emotions don't always stay. They're fleeting. You know, we're 780 00:36:37,676 --> 00:36:40,516 Speaker 1: not happy forever, we're not sad forever. We're not feelful, 781 00:36:40,516 --> 00:36:42,916 Speaker 1: we're not angry. You know, if we stay with those 782 00:36:42,956 --> 00:36:45,956 Speaker 1: things and we realize that it's just an emotion and 783 00:36:46,356 --> 00:36:49,116 Speaker 1: realize that it too will pass, that it's for me, 784 00:36:49,236 --> 00:36:51,196 Speaker 1: that's made a big difference for me, and I think 785 00:36:51,236 --> 00:36:53,476 Speaker 1: that that will help me in the in the coming 786 00:36:53,516 --> 00:36:56,716 Speaker 1: weeks despite whatever whatever storm is going to come, this 787 00:36:56,716 --> 00:36:59,756 Speaker 1: will pass. That's awesome, and I think it's it's powerful 788 00:36:59,836 --> 00:37:03,116 Speaker 1: because again, there's not much we have control over in 789 00:37:03,116 --> 00:37:06,876 Speaker 1: this situation, but we do have control over how we 790 00:37:07,396 --> 00:37:09,676 Speaker 1: react to it. There's a lot of work in science 791 00:37:09,716 --> 00:37:11,756 Speaker 1: that suggests that what you resist persists. You know, if 792 00:37:11,796 --> 00:37:13,556 Speaker 1: you try to push away your fear or push away 793 00:37:13,556 --> 00:37:15,796 Speaker 1: your anger, push away your emotion, it's just going to 794 00:37:15,876 --> 00:37:18,236 Speaker 1: come back to hit you. So just say this is 795 00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:21,156 Speaker 1: the way this is, and it's yucky, but you know, 796 00:37:21,196 --> 00:37:23,356 Speaker 1: freaking out and fighting it isn't going to help. Let 797 00:37:23,436 --> 00:37:24,916 Speaker 1: me just get through what I need to get through 798 00:37:25,156 --> 00:37:27,356 Speaker 1: in as healthy a way as possible. And so, Mike, 799 00:37:27,396 --> 00:37:29,516 Speaker 1: thank you for helping our listeners get through what they 800 00:37:29,556 --> 00:37:31,556 Speaker 1: need to get through in as healthy a way as possible, 801 00:37:32,196 --> 00:37:34,156 Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. And thanks so much for coming 802 00:37:34,156 --> 00:37:36,316 Speaker 1: on the podcast. Oh thanks for asking me. I'm really 803 00:37:37,116 --> 00:37:40,116 Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, but also, 804 00:37:40,596 --> 00:37:42,516 Speaker 1: you know, to share what's going on, because I think 805 00:37:42,556 --> 00:37:46,556 Speaker 1: it's important for people to realize that it is a 806 00:37:46,676 --> 00:37:49,876 Speaker 1: unique physician and healthcare to be sitting where we are 807 00:37:49,956 --> 00:37:53,476 Speaker 1: that we've never faced. I wanted to end this episode 808 00:37:53,476 --> 00:37:56,516 Speaker 1: by expressing my gratitude to all the medical professionals and 809 00:37:56,596 --> 00:37:59,636 Speaker 1: first responders out there. Thank you so much for your 810 00:37:59,636 --> 00:38:02,396 Speaker 1: bravery and service, and I really hope you heard some 811 00:38:02,436 --> 00:38:04,636 Speaker 1: tips that might help you in this fight. And if 812 00:38:04,636 --> 00:38:06,516 Speaker 1: you're not on the front lines but you still want 813 00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:08,716 Speaker 1: to help, there are lots of things you can do. 814 00:38:09,436 --> 00:38:11,756 Speaker 1: You can start a campaign to get hospitals more life 815 00:38:11,796 --> 00:38:15,516 Speaker 1: saving protective equipment. You could consider donating blood, which I'm 816 00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:18,556 Speaker 1: told is running really low right now. Or you could 817 00:38:18,596 --> 00:38:21,236 Speaker 1: even see if your local hospitals are accepting food donations 818 00:38:21,276 --> 00:38:24,236 Speaker 1: for their tired workers. But the biggest thing you can 819 00:38:24,276 --> 00:38:27,316 Speaker 1: do is just stay home, which will help flatten the 820 00:38:27,316 --> 00:38:32,636 Speaker 1: curve and keep everyone, including our healthcare heroes Safe. The 821 00:38:32,676 --> 00:38:35,676 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Delly. 822 00:38:35,756 --> 00:38:38,516 Speaker 1: This episode was mixed and mastered by Evan Viola and 823 00:38:38,596 --> 00:38:42,596 Speaker 1: our original music was by Zachary Silver. Extra extra special 824 00:38:42,636 --> 00:38:45,356 Speaker 1: thanks to the medical professionals who helped me with this episode, 825 00:38:45,836 --> 00:38:50,196 Speaker 1: especially doctor Sanjay chevek Romani, doctor Tanya Fik and doctor 826 00:38:50,196 --> 00:38:54,476 Speaker 1: Amy Commander. As usual, deep gratitude goes to Ben Davis 827 00:38:54,596 --> 00:38:56,276 Speaker 1: as well as the rest of the Pushkin team.