1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, I've been thinking about black hole. Watch out. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: That's a real rabbit hole. Yeah, I'm definitely stucked in. 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: But here's my question. Can you make a black hole 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: out of anything? Like? Even rabbits? Theoretically you can, but 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: that's a lot of rabbits. But you don't actually need 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: a lot of rabbits, right, Like you can just take 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: a few rabbits and squeeze them together a lot, right, 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: as long as they started a release of liability, I 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: suppose anything is possible. Well, I got their pop prints. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: I think that counts right, But I guess my bigger 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: question is does that mean you can make a black 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: hole out of anything? Yeah? I think so, even dark matter? Yeah, 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: anything with energy? About a black hole out of photons? Absolutely? 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: And you know the truth is, I'd rather you sacrificed 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: photons than rabbits. What if they're light rabbits. I am 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: or hammy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, 17 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I'm at least forty seven rabbits. You 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: wave forty seven rabbits or you own forty seven rabbits, 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: or you are forty seven rabbits in the costume of 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: a human. I think philosophically, I'm somewhat equivalent to forty 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: seven rabbits and intelligence, civil arm or ability to eat carrots. Yeah, 23 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: you know, you link two rabbit brains together, you get 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: something which is much smarter than just two rabbits. So 25 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: now you have forty seven rabbits. It's like rabbits to 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: the power. Oh my goodness, that is one massive bunny brain. 27 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in which 29 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: we apply our human brains and our bunny brains and 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: our hamster brains to the deepest and biggest questions of 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: the universe. We don't hold. We tackle questions like how 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: did the universe get here? And where is it going? 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: What's it made out of? And how does it all work? 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: Because we think the universe is comprehensible. We don't know why, 35 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: but human brains have somehow managed to chisel into the 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe and gain little shards of understanding. 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: And our goal on this podcast is to take those 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: and explain all of them. To you, as well as 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: the deepest, biggest open questions that remain for humans and 40 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: bundies to unravel. Yeah, because it is a pretty mysterious 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: universe full of questions and things that we have yet 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: to discover, from what is most of the universe made 43 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: out of to what is the fundamental units of space 44 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: and time and matter in this cosmos? Or is there 45 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: even a fundamental unit of space and time in this cosmos? 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: Or is it just rabbits all the way down? One 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: of my favorite things about asking questions of the universe 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: is that anybody can do it. You look around you 49 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: in this weird, wild, crazy, violent, do full universe, and 50 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: so many things are puzzles. So many things beg you 51 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: to ask questions about them. Yeah, daniel A re allowed 52 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: also hair brained questions was in Rabbits. Sorry, I just 53 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: had to get that in because I realized after we 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 1: had our earlier exchange that that was such a little 55 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: hanging fruit for a pun and a joke. I know, 56 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe you didn't hop up to that joke earlier. 57 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: I'll keep my ears out for funnier jokes, But yeah, 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: it is an interesting universe full of questions. And full 59 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: of inquisitive minds with questions about the universe, because I 60 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: think we all look out there into the cosmos, into 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: the night sky, and we look at ourselves, and we 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: we gotta wonder, like, what's going on? How does it 63 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: all work? What's it all made out of? That's right, 64 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: and we are not the only ones actually thinking about 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: the overlap between cosmic questions and small furry creatures. Last 66 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: night I got a fun question over email from a listener, 67 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: Evan Cleave, who wanted to know something deep and important 68 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: about the universe. But really, what was the question? Well, 69 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: I have to read it to your word for word, 70 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: because otherwise you won't believe it. It says how Low Daniel. 71 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: I have a very serious and important question. How many 72 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: hamsters floating in space would it take to have enough 73 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: mass to come together gravitationally to achieve nuclear fusion and 74 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: become a star? The world needs to know. Well, that's 75 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: the kind of world I want to live in, where 76 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: everybody needs to know how many hamsters you need to 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: make a hamster sun? Is that what you would call it? 78 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: A hamster star? A hamstar, a hamstar exactly? Yes, But 79 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: I swear that we had written this cold open about 80 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: rabbits and black holes before we got this important question 81 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: from Evan about hamsters and stars. It just goes to 82 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: show you how there's some sort of connection between rodents 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: and massive space objects. Science needs to probe this a 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: little more deeply. I think, Yeah, who knows how many 85 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: flying hamsters are there are out there in space? Right? Like, 86 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: we literally don't know. There could be a lot that's 87 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: true beyond the observable universe. It could be just all 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: hamsters to the edge of the universe. Most of the 89 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: universe could be hamsters. You're saying, yeah, we could be 90 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: living in a hamstar. We don't know. I think we're 91 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: all hamstars. Really, it's a pretty hammy podcast for sure. 92 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: Do you have an answer? Did you calculate how many 93 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: hamsters you need to achieve fusion or is that even possible? 94 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: Can you make a star out of hamsters? Oh? I 95 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: have an answer, and you know, given the urgency and 96 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: clear importance of this question, I cleared my afternoon and 97 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: shared an emergency task force just to address this question. 98 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: I pulled in international experts of planetary scientists, fusion professors, 99 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: hamster owners, you know, and we've met for an entire afternoon, 100 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: did some calculations, and you know, essentially to make a 101 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: star that achieves fusion, all you really need is enough stuff. 102 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: You get enough mass together and gravity will pull it 103 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: together and create the conditions you need for fusion. And 104 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: the minimum threshold there is about eighty times the mass 105 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: of Jupiter, which is about one point six times ten 106 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: to the twenty nine kims. So it's a big mass. Wow. 107 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: I'm glad that was a productive afternoon and you didn't 108 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: just sit there spinning your wheels in a hamster wheel. No, 109 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: I didn't just weasel out of this question. I really 110 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: took it seriously. But you're saying that if I had 111 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: an eighty jupiter's worth of hamsters, it would become a son. 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: It would become a son. Now, technically that calculation is 113 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: done assuming that you have eighty jupiter's worth of hydrogen, 114 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: and you know, hamsters are made of heavier elements. That's 115 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: carbon in there other stuff. But mostly the same calculations 116 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: will work. Really, you can, like, if you had, you know, 117 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: eighty jupiter's worth of carbon, it would turn into a star. 118 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily the same, is it. It's not exactly 119 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: the same but approximately as long as it's lighter than iron, 120 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: then gravity can do its thing and compress it. It 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: won't burn for nearly as long as a massive hydrogen will, 122 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: but carbon and oxygen will still fuse, and you'll get 123 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: further up at the periodic table. I see you need 124 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: gassy hamsters, not iron hamsters. You can't have tony star hamsters. 125 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 1: That wouldn't work. Hamster iron man would be a different. 126 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: So you need about eighty Jupiter's worth of hamsters to 127 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: ignity hamster. That's right. And since hamsters are about thirty 128 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: grams each, averaging over the various kinds of hamsters, that 129 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: means it requires about five times ten to the thirty hamsters. 130 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: That's five point three million YadA hamsters. M that's a lot. 131 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: You know, you'd be counting them and then you'd be like, YadA, YadA, YadA. 132 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: It's a YadA hamsters for sure. All right. Well, um, 133 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: I guess that's good that there aren't hamidy hamsters on Earth, 134 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: because then we'd be toast or the hamsters would literally 135 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: be on five. Well, those are the kinds of questions 136 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: you get on the internet, and Daniel, you get those 137 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: a lot, right, and you always answer them. That's right. 138 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: We answer every question you send us, the serious ones, 139 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: the deep ones, the silly ones. We write all our 140 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: listeners back because we think that science is just part 141 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: of being human and we want everyone to get to participate. 142 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: So if you have a question about the nature of 143 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: the universe or how many rabbits it takes to form 144 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: a black hole, please write to us to questions at 145 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge dot com. Yeah, and Daniel always ask 146 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: for this emails. But sometimes we answer those questions here 147 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: on the podcast live in front of thousands and thousands 148 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,239 Speaker 1: of people. Yeah. Sometimes people ask the question and I think, oh, 149 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: I bet a lot of folks would have that question, 150 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: let's dig into it on the podcast, or it just 151 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: sounds like a lot of fun, and so we select 152 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: some subset of those questions to be explored right here 153 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: on the podcast. Yeah, so today we're gonna go full 154 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: hamster on three pretty interesting questions we got over the 155 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: internet about electrons and when they radiate light, about the 156 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: curvature of space and equals mc squared, and also about 157 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: the Higgs field and how long has it been around. 158 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: That's right, and these are just questions from people being 159 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: curious people trying to fit together their pieces of understanding 160 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: into a larger mosaic so they can have in their 161 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: minds the entire universe. And when two pieces don't quite 162 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: fit together or don't give you that satisfying click, that's 163 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: when you're doing physics, when you're applying your knowledge and 164 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: trying to understand the whole universe at once. So if 165 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: you get stuck in that situation, please write to us 166 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: so to be on the podcast. We'll be answering listener 167 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: questions number seventeen. So we've done seventeen of these listener 168 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: questions podcast, Daniel, that's about something like fifty something listener 169 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: questions we've answered live. Yeah, that's right exactly. And I'm 170 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: really glad that the listeners get to hear their questions 171 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: get answered, and they get to participate in the science 172 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: process because this right here, this is science happening. I 173 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: feel like you just demoted science, Like if this counts 174 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: as science, it's a big tent, man, it's a big, 175 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: big tent. We're way in the outskirts of the tent, 176 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: like halfway in getting wet on one side of our body. 177 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm not about science gates keeping man science is for everyone. 178 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's crash the gates and let's go 179 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: full science here and well, the first question will tackle 180 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: here is from Tim who has a question about electron radiation. Hello, 181 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Daniel and Johe love podcas casts. You're doing great work. 182 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: While discussing a listener question, you mentioned that electrons moving 183 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: up and down antenna generate photons. That sent me down 184 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: a Google rabbit hole where I found that syncotron's use 185 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: electrons going around in a circle to generate X rays. 186 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: Similar concept, but it got me thinking why do electrons 187 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: bound to atoms going around in a circle not produce 188 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: photons as well? Can't wait to hear the answer and 189 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: look forward to hearing from you. Keep up the good work. 190 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: All right, thank you for that awesome question. I'm not 191 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: quite sure I understand the question though, Daniel. The question 192 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: is about when electrons give off light, and we did 193 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: a fun episode with listener questions where we talk about 194 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: essentially how electrons make photons. Like, somebody asked how you 195 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: get an electron to shoot off a photon? What makes 196 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: that happen? And when answering that question, we explained that 197 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: the way you get an electron to radiate is essentially 198 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: you accelerated, you wiggle it like the pick. Sure I 199 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,479 Speaker 1: have in my mind is that the electron is surrounded 200 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: by an electric field. An electronic tracts positrons and it 201 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: repels other electrons, and it does so using its electric field. 202 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: So it's electric field sort of fills space around it. 203 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: What happens when you wiggle that electron is that the 204 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: electric field also wiggles. Is like a ripple in that 205 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: electric field isn't change instantaneously, and so that's what we 206 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: call a photon. So the answer we gave there was 207 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: that to generate a photon, to get an electron to 208 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: radiate a photon, to shoot off a little piece of light, 209 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: all you have to do is accelerated. But his question is, 210 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: what about electrons and atoms? Aren't they moving in a circle, 211 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: which is acceleration, So why aren't those electrons just shooting 212 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: off photons all the time? Right, Okay, I think I 213 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: got it. So you're saying electrons generally, if you wiggle them, 214 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: if you accelerate them, they give off light. And then 215 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: is that just electrons or anything that you know electromagnetic, 216 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: anything that has electric charge will give off a photon 217 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: if you accelerated, so amuan or any other particle that 218 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: has electric charge, if it accelerates, it will give off 219 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: a photon because it's acceleration changes the electromagnetic field and 220 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: the information moving through that field. That's what a photon is, man, right, 221 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: And then it loses some energy or is it always 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: just giving off photons in every direction forever? No, it 223 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: loses some energy exactly. That's how an electron essentially breaks. Right. 224 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: An electron changes direction by like pushing off a photon 225 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: in the other direction. Like, how can an electron turn, Well, 226 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: the only way for it to like change its trajectory 227 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: is the same way you would in space, which is 228 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: throwing something out the back. An electron turns in space 229 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: changes direction, which is essentially acceleration by tossing a photon away. So, 230 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: for example, if you want electrons to move in a 231 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: circle the way we have and some accelerators like singletrons, 232 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: for that to happen, electrons have to constantly be radiating 233 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: off photons to push them in the circle. And you're saying, 234 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: that's kind of how antenna work, because there's electrons wiggling 235 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: inside of an antenna, and that gives off the photons 236 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: and the electrical signal. Yeah, in both directions. You can 237 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: generate photons using electrons by taking them and using current 238 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: from your signal to wiggle the electrons, and that generates photons. 239 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what an antenna is. That's how, for example, 240 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: those tall towers from radio stations generate radio waves as 241 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: they have like electrons moving up and down those antennas, 242 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: and the frequency of the electrons motion is the frequency 243 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: of the photon that they generate. It's very simple and 244 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: direct connection between the motion of the electron, the motion 245 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: of the electric field that it's connected to, and the photon, 246 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: which is just wiggling of that electromagnetic field. All right, 247 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: So I guess the question is that if a wiggling 248 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: electron gives off a photon, then wouldn't electrons wiggling around 249 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: an atom also be giving of photons all the time? Yes, 250 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: And it's actually a really deep and important question about 251 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: how atoms were and something that people struggled with for 252 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: decades in the early part of the century because remember 253 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: that the first picture of atoms, and the one that 254 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: Tim describes, is sort of of electrons moving around the 255 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: nucleus like in a little orbit. The sort of Neil's 256 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: bore picture of the atom was that it was sort 257 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: of like a little planetary system. You have these electrons 258 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: whizzing around like little classical objects, like tiny little balls, 259 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: moving around in a circle around the nucleus. And if 260 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: that were true, if electrons actually were moving in those 261 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: little circles around the nucleus, they should be radiating, they 262 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: should be losing energy, should they should be giving off photons, 263 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: And if they would, then they should just fall right 264 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: into the nucleus and they should collapse. So if you 265 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: do the calculation, is suggests that like the hydrogen atom 266 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: should only last for like ten to the negative twelve seconds. 267 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: But of course we see that hydrogen is stable. Electrons 268 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: can hang out in these atoms and they don't collapse 269 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: and tend to the negative twelve seconds. So this was 270 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: a big puzzle in physics, not just for tim but 271 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: for like the brightest minds in physics for many years. Right, 272 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: because that's the classical view of the atom. Right, It's 273 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: like you imagine, or you draw a little dot, and 274 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: then you draw some electron dots like whizzing around in 275 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: like elliptical orbits around the nucleus of the atom, right, 276 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: And so if that picture is true, then you're saying 277 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: that that would not be sustainable because you know, the 278 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: electrons are moving in a circle, which means we're accelerating 279 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: and decelerating, and that means that they should be giving 280 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: up light all the time exactly. And this is just 281 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: what I was talking about earlier. You like take your 282 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: understanding of something and you apply the rules to you said, well, 283 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: if this picture is true, then why doesn't this happen 284 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: or why doesn't that happen? Right? That's the core of 285 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: doing physics, of doing science, of trying to link together 286 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: all of your understanding and make sure that it all 287 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: like fits together in a way that makes sense, because 288 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have different rules for different situations. And so 289 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: that's the fundamental question that Tim is asking is why 290 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: doesn't the electron essentially collapse into the nucleus instantaneously? M alright, 291 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: So then what's really going on here? Why don't the 292 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: electrons moving and on the nucleus of the atom give 293 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: up light? The reason is that they are not really 294 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: little classical objects. They're not really tiny little balls in 295 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: orbits that are moving with circular motion the way that 296 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: we imagine them in that picture of the atom. They 297 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: are fundamentally very, very different and strange objects. There are 298 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: quantum mechanical objects that don't have a path. Like an 299 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: electron is not like a tiny little object that really 300 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: is moving along some path in space and time. We 301 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: just don't know exactly what it is. It doesn't have 302 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: a path, that doesn't have a well defined location as 303 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: a function of time. It's a quantum object. It's fundamentally 304 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: very different, right. I think you're saying that the electron 305 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: orbiting around the nucleus of the atom is not really orbiting, right, 306 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: like the center of mass or the center of the electron. 307 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: It's not really like going in a circle. It's more 308 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: like kind of stationary, right, Or it just has sort 309 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: of a mathematical equivalent of orbiting. Yeah, it's not even 310 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: really mathematically equivalent to orbiting. It's like not really orbiting. 311 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: Act all. The way to think about it is not 312 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: as a tiny little grain of matter in motion around 313 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: the nucleus. It's something really totally different. It's a quantum object. 314 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: What you should think about is that the electron is 315 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: a tiny little packet of energy you know, just the 316 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: same way the photon is a little packet of energy 317 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: in the electromagnetic field. The electron is a little packet 318 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: of energy in the electron field. So what you should 319 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: think about it instead is like a little blob of stuff. 320 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: And as you said, it's in a stationary state. It's 321 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: like in a stable configuration. It's like if you've trapped 322 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: this little thing in a container. It's just hanging out 323 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: in there. It's not actually in motion. So the best 324 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: way to think about this is a little pack of 325 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: energy in its lowest possible state. So then I guess 326 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: why do we always use the word orbiting and like, 327 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about electrons and then the 328 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: end we always say, you know, the electron is orbiting? 329 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: Is it? Because it's sort of like an analogy, you know, 330 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: like an orbit is kind of like a stable energy level. Yeah. 331 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: I think we probably shouldn't use the word orbit because 332 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: it's very misleading, but I think it's historical. It shows 333 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: the sort of the development of our thinking. We've started 334 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: from a classical idea and we've been gradually moving more 335 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: and more towards these quantum ideas. So now we talk about, 336 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, orbit tolls which represent like energy densities. Still 337 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: that this sort of suggestive because you're suggesting the electron 338 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: has a location, it just has like a probability to 339 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: be here in a probability to be there, when really 340 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: the location of the electron and its motion is not 341 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: well defined until something actually interacts with the electron. And 342 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: so often these classical analogies are easier to understand, but 343 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: they're often misleading as well. All right, well, then it 344 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: sounds like the answers to the question is that electrons 345 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: in atoms don't radiate photons because they're not really accelerating, right, 346 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: they're not really moving, and so nothing would sort of 347 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: prop them to shoot off a photon. That's right, and 348 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: sometimes they do shoot off a photon. Remember that there 349 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: are electrons in like higher energy states. There's a ladder 350 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: of states there, and if you're in a higher energy state, 351 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: then you can actually move down onto a lower energy state, 352 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: and the way you do that is you shoot off 353 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: a photon. So, for example, anytime you see a gas 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: that's like glowing, you know that's gas that's been energized. 355 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: The electrons have extra energy and they give off photons 356 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: and go down to a lower energy, but most atoms, 357 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: the electrons are at their lowest energy level. And one 358 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: really interesting thing about quantum objects like an electron is 359 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: that they have a minimum energy level. Like the electron 360 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: can't go into the nucleus. They can't like settle down 361 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: to a zero energy state, because there's a minimum energy 362 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: to every quantum field. This is called the quantum zero 363 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: point energy. So the electron can't collapse into the nucleus 364 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: because it's already at the lowest possible energy level. I see. 365 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: All right, So then electrons and atoms can radiate photons, 366 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: but it's not because of the wiggling or the exploration. 367 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: It's because they jump from one energy state to another. Yeah, 368 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: all right, Well, hopefully that answer is Tim's question, and 369 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: so let's get into our two other questions for the episodes, 370 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: one about the curvature space and the equals mc square 371 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 1: and the other one about the Higgs field and whether 372 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: or not we can live without it. But first let's 373 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we are answering listener 374 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: questions today, and our next question comes from Pete, who 375 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: has a question about energy and the curvature of space. Hi, 376 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge my name is Pete. I have a 377 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: question about spacetime curvature. According to the general relativity, we 378 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: know space curves in the presence of matter or energy density. 379 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: But can we detect the curvature of space or ripples 380 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: in spacetime from just energy density alone and not through 381 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: the effects of matter like black holes and neutron stars 382 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: and stuff. Given that E equals mc squared, you would 383 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: think that energy has tremendously more influence throughout the universe 384 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: than just matter. But can we detect gravity waves from 385 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: things like supernova or quasars? Thanks very much, I love 386 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: your podcast. Awesome, Thank you, Pete Daniel. I feel like 387 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: I need an episode that explains these questions much less 388 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: trying to answer. I feel like I need a listener 389 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: questions questions episode about this one. You picked some pretty 390 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: tough ones today. Did you do that on purpose? Yeah? 391 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: I thought you needed a challenge. No, I just thought 392 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 1: these were fun. Some of these made me go off 393 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: and do some research, which is always something I enjoyed doing. 394 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about this podcast is that 395 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: it gives me an excuse to go off and read 396 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: about areas of physics I've always been interested in but 397 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: never had time to dig into m All right, well, 398 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: let me see if I can interpret this question. So 399 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: I think Pete is saying that we know that gravity 400 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: and mass bend space and curve space, right, and we 401 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: also know that energy does that too. So I think 402 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: this question is can we detect this bending of space 403 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: from just energy, because there should be a lot of 404 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: energy in the universe, especially if the equals empty squared, 405 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: because that means that the energy is much more powerful 406 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: than matter. Yeah, exactly. I think that's the question because 407 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: general relativity doesn't just say that mass bend space. Mass 408 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: does bend space, but mass is just an example of 409 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: the category of stuff that can bend space, which is 410 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: anything essentially with energy density. And it's actually, for those 411 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: general relativity nerds out there, a little bit more complicated. 412 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: There's a stress energy tensor, so it's also dependent on 413 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: how that stuff is arranged, but it's close enough to 414 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: say that anything with energy can change the shape of space, 415 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: and not just matter. Matter is an example of energy. 416 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: So I think his question is why don't we see 417 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: space being bent by energy because equals mc squared suggests 418 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: that energy should be super powerful in the universe, right, 419 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: meaning like, if I see a neutron star giving off 420 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of light, do I see space bending because 421 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: of all that light coming out of it? And I 422 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: think it's useful to sort of dig into the second 423 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: part of his question first, like this question, but E 424 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: equals mc squared and what that means. It's certainly true 425 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: that mass contains a lot of energy. Right, equals mc 426 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: squared means that mass is very dense with energy because 427 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: the C squared is a big number, right, ce is 428 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: the speed of light, which is three million meters per second. 429 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: So you take a little bit of mass and you're 430 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: multiplied by a big number squared to get how much 431 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: energy is stored inside that mass. And we know that, 432 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: for example, because you can make like a huge bomb 433 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: with a tiny little bit of fuel by getting that 434 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: energy out of mass. That's how nuclear weapons work. Right, 435 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: So we know that mass is very very dense with energy, right. 436 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: And I know from our conversation is that basically you 437 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: can also say that mass is just energy, right, or 438 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: in a way, mass is just like a measure of energy. Yeah, 439 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: So it's all sort of the same thing anyways, Exactly. 440 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: That's the point I want to make, is that what 441 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: is that mass anyway, It's really just the energy inside 442 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: the object. Like most of your mass doesn't come from 443 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: the stuff that makes you up, the little corks and 444 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: the electrons. It comes from the energy of those objects 445 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: being held together. So your mass, how much your bending 446 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: space is actually just from your internal energy. Like the 447 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: bond between your objects is what gives you mass and 448 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: helps you bend space. So even if you're just looking 449 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: at a neutron star or a black hole, the reason 450 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: it has mass is because it contains a lot of energy. 451 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: So basically, every time you're seeing space bend, it's just 452 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: because of energy. Right. Well, I think most of my 453 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: mass comes from French fries. But there's a different topic altogether. 454 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a term in Einstein's equation for 455 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: French fries, but maybe you should have added one. Well, 456 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: he was German, so I think he's worn too sausages 457 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: or something. What is the French friese density of the 458 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: universe anyway, another deep question of physics we can't answer. 459 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: I mean, French fries do you need to make a star? 460 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: I don't know your star. How many French fries have 461 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: you eaten? That's probably more than the number of hamsters 462 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: in the universe more than the number of hamsters you've eaten. 463 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: I hope somethings that even with him. Then then we 464 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: get a black hole. But I think what you're saying 465 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: is that mass is energy, and so you know energy 466 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: is causing the bending of space out there. But I 467 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: think maybe Pete's question is born like can we see 468 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: the bending of space just from energy that's not associated 469 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: with mass, right, because there is energy that's not related 470 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: to mass too, right, Yeah, there is absolutely. Like you 471 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: take a photon, A photon is just energy. It has 472 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: no mass, right, So lots of radiation can be massless, 473 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: like gravitational waves are also a form of radiation. They 474 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: have no mass, but there's a lot of energy there. 475 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: And so I think his question really is like, can 476 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: you just take photons or gravitational waves massless energy and 477 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: use that to bend space? Whoa wait, so it's not 478 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: a gravitational wave was a bending of space. You're saying 479 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: that the bending of space can cause the bending of space. Yeah. Absolutely, 480 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: That's the crazy thing about gravity that's sort of nonlinear 481 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: that way, right, sort of keys off of itself, and 482 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that makes it so difficult 483 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: to develop a quantum theory of gravity, like gravitons would 484 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: interact with other gravitons, and you know the way that 485 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: like photons don't write, photons don't interact with other photons. 486 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: That's one reason why electromagnetism is easier to calculate and 487 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: think about, and then other theories like the strong force 488 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: where gluons interact with other gluons or gravity where things 489 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: get nonlinear for similar reasons. M M all right, Well 490 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: then Pete's question I think is can we detect the 491 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: bending of space from just photons and or all that 492 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: energy flying around the universe or is that somehow in 493 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: a different category of space bending. Yeah. I think there's 494 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: two different answers here. One is like is it possible? 495 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: Could you do this? And the other is like why 496 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: don't we see it more happening in the universe today? 497 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: And to answer the first one, we think that you 498 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: could in principle, if you took enough lasers that were 499 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: powerful enough and you focused them on a single point 500 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: so you overlapped huge number of photons in a tiny 501 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: little space, then you would create a black hole. Mmmmm wait, wait, 502 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: if you shoot enough photons into one space, you might 503 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: create a black hole. That sounds crazy, right, nobody would 504 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: ever try to do that. Would day supervillains out there? 505 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Take note in your layers underneath volcano. We are giving 506 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: the prescription today for how to create a black hole. 507 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: At the Large Hadron Collider, we shoot protons together a 508 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: very high energy. The idea is the same. If you 509 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: have enough energy in those collisions, you might have enough 510 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: energy density to create a miniature black hole. Same idea 511 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: with photons, just different kind of particle. If you build 512 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: enough big lasers and overlap their beams in one tight 513 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: little spot, you could create a black hole. That people 514 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: have done the calculation, and you'd need to have like 515 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: a single laser pulse have the same amount of energy 516 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: that the Sun produces in a tenth of a second. 517 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: So we're not talking about like the kind of lasers 518 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: that humans can build currently. We're talking about like enormous 519 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: alien terra scale projects lasers to build a black hole. 520 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well, first of all, I feel like you 521 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: just admitted to being a supervillain, Daniel. No, no, no, 522 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: I'm a consultant for supervillain. Isn't that what all these 523 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: listener questions are really about you're just a betting the 524 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: villains right for money. I'm just a scientist answering hypoth 525 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: medical questions about how to build a Doom's Day device. 526 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: That's all. That's right. You're just asking for a friend 527 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: while stroking a cat in their lap, all right. So 528 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: it is possible to bend space with just energy, with 529 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: just photons, and you can even make a black hole 530 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: if you overlap enough photons in one spot. Now, the 531 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: other part of Pete's question was why don't we see 532 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: more of that in the universe, because like there's a 533 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: lot of light in the universe, there's a lot of 534 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, radiation being admitted and sing everywhere. Do we 535 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: see a general bending of space from that energy? So 536 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: the answer is that radiation does contribute to the overall 537 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: general bending of space. Like when we measure the curvature 538 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: of the whole universe, we measure how much energy density 539 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: there is, like per volume, and that affects the whole 540 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: bending of space. And part of that budget is radiation 541 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,239 Speaker 1: is like includes the photons and the gravitational waves and 542 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: all the other kinds of radiation that are in every 543 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: unit of space. So the answer is Yes, that happens, 544 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: and we can measure it. We can measure the radiation 545 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: component of the universe, and we know it does contribute 546 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: to the bending of space. But there isn't very much 547 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: radiation in the universe. Like if you look at the 548 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: pie chart of the energy budget for the universe per 549 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: like unit of space, it's mostly not radiation. Most of 550 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: the energy in the universe is dark energy. Some other 551 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: fraction of the energy and universe is matter. Very very 552 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: tiny sliver of the energy of the universe is in 553 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: the form of radiation. So it's there. It contributes, we 554 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: can measure it, but there's just not very much radiation 555 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: in the universe right now. I see. So you're talking 556 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: about like a specific type of energy, which is like 557 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: light or radiation. You're saying, that's a pretty small percentage 558 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: of the matter and energy, right except the non dark 559 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: energy stuff in the universe. Yeah, exactly what you have 560 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: to include the dark energy. Dark energy also contributes to 561 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: the overall curvature of the universe. And you know that's 562 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: super interesting, Like we have just about as much energy 563 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: per unit volume as you need the universe to keep 564 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: the universe to be flat. So the overall curvature is 565 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: basically zero. That's something we don't even really understand very well. 566 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: All the energy adds up to like exactly the right 567 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: number to make the universe have like flat curvature, which 568 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: is weird. But photons and gravitational waves and other kinds 569 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: of radiation are a tiny little sliver of that. But 570 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is that that didn't used to be 571 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: the case. There was a time in the history of 572 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: the universe when radiation dominated the energy budget right at 573 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: the beginning of the universe, right, that's right, very early on, 574 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: the universe was like crazy lousy with photons, Like photons 575 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: were everywhere. It was mostly photons. They were bouncing around, 576 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: they were being created. The place was hot and dense. 577 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: So the first like fifty thousand years of the universe 578 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: we think was radiation dominated. Then of course things cooled down, 579 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: and when things cooled down, that radiation turns into matter 580 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: and then doesn't oscillate back into radiation. So for example, 581 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: a photon whizzing around becomes an electron and oppositron, and 582 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: maybe those guys go off in opposite directions and don't 583 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: recombine to make an electron. And because the universe is 584 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: cooled and more dilute. There aren't like other particles for 585 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: them to annihilate into, so instead of matter and antimatter 586 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: annihilating each other, they just sort of like go their 587 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: own ways. And then we have the universe being matter 588 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: dominated for like ten billion years, So the universe was 589 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: radiation dominated, but only for a very short while in 590 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: the early universe, right, I think you're saying that right now, 591 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: like where we are now in the history of the universe, 592 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: the universe is too cool or not bright enough to 593 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: really see the effects of like right energy space bending. Yeah, 594 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. But there is dark energy, but that's 595 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of a different kind of energy, Like we don't 596 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: love dark energy in with all of the other types 597 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: of energy. Yeah, exactly, even though it has the word 598 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: energy in the name. Well, it is a kind of energy, 599 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: but it's not a kind of radiation or a kind 600 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: of matter as far as we know. So if you 601 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: have those categories, dark energy is most of the energy, 602 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: and the universe is like the rest of it is 603 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: matter and radiation, but of the matter and radiation portion, 604 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: most of that is matter. So yeah, there is radiation 605 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: in the universe, but it's a tiny sliver, and the 606 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: history I think is super fascinating. In the first fifty 607 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: thousand years it was all radiation, then the next ten 608 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: billion years was matter dominated, and the last four billion 609 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: years or so have been dark energy dominated. So we've 610 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: seen like these different phases of time where different components 611 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: are dominating the energy budget of the universe, until we 612 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: expand our serviable universe, and then it's hamster dominated universe. Right, 613 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: the hamsters belong in the matter of category, the radiation category, 614 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: or are they their own kind of energy? All of 615 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: the above. It's a hamster powered universe or none of 616 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: the above. It's right, We're all just the giant wheel 617 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: spinning because of the hamsters. Feels like it sometimes. All right, well, 618 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: I think that answers Pete's question. Can we detect the 619 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: curvature space from just energy? And the answer is yes, 620 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: But right now it's pretty faint, although it used to 621 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: be much more significant. So let's get into our last 622 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: question of the EPISO. So this one's about the Higgs 623 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: field and whether or not we can live without it. 624 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: So let's get into that. But first let's take another 625 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: quick break. All right, we're answering listener questions, and we're 626 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: at our last question of the episode. This one is 627 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: from Alex and Ward from Belgium, who are a father 628 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: and son question asking team, or maybe they're a hamster 629 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: and rabbit, but who knows talking hamster and rabbit. Do 630 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: you think they're eating French fries, Daniel or Belgium fries? 631 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: What do they call them in Belgium? I think they 632 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: call them palm freed. And if they're eating them, they're 633 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: probably eating them with mayonnaise, which is awesome. I am 634 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: definitely in the mayor with fries camp. What about you? 635 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you serious? Wow, We're gonna have 636 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: to revaluate his entire friendship. Yeah, I love it. And 637 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: if that's the end of our friendship, then I'll stand 638 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: by that line in this thing. It's delicious. Mayo is 639 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: delicious and basically everything I like mixing them together. Actually 640 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: a little mayo, a little catch up. I think you're 641 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: a magic thought. That's right. I mixed the light and 642 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: the dark sides of the force, the matter and the 643 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: antimatter of condiment. All right, Well, Alex and White have 644 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: a question about the Higgs Field. Hi, Daniel and j 645 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: you'r Alexander and what's two huge fans from Belgium. We 646 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: love your book and podcasts. Alexander, who is twelve years old, 647 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: read in a science magazine that the Higgs field was 648 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: created sometime after the Big Bang, and you asked me 649 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: the following question about us. If the universe started expanding 650 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: at at a big bang, and the Higgs field was 651 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: created after the Big Bang, and the information cannot go 652 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: faster than speed of light, and the expansion of space 653 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: goes faster than light, then shouldn't there be a place 654 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: in the universe where there's no Higgs field even today? 655 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: A really hard question and I really have no maybe 656 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: you can help, thank you. All right, I agree, it's 657 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: a pretty tricky question, and I'm glad we're here to 658 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: answer father's questions. Should we tackle purity next? And that's right. 659 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: We are the backup parents online and the Birds and 660 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: the Bees and the Hamsters. I think that's a different 661 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: podcast though, we should, you know, stick to our specialty. Yeah, 662 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: you should go listen to Creature feature for that one. 663 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: All right. Well, the question I think here is I'm 664 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: trying to wrap my head around it because it's it's 665 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: a little tricky. I think I think he's saying that 666 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: if the Higgs field was created after the Big Bang, 667 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't there be a part of the universe with no 668 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: Higgs field, Because I think he's thinking that maybe there 669 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: was a big emptiness, or there was larger universe, and 670 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle there was a big bang which 671 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: started the creation of the Higgs field, and so shouldn't 672 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: there be parts of the universe without the Higgs field. 673 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that's what's going on in his head. Yeah, 674 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,919 Speaker 1: I think that's the question. And so there's a bunch 675 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: of interesting stuff there, like this idea that the Higgs 676 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: field is created after the Big Bang and where it 677 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: was created and then how it spreads out through the universe. 678 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: Has a bunch of fun ideas there to disentangle. All right, Well, 679 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: let's recap really quickly. What is the Higgs field in 680 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: the first place. Yeah, So the Higgs field is this 681 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: thing we discovered about ten years ago. We suspected it 682 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: existed for like fifty years, but it only found confirmation 683 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: at the Particle collider in twelve. And if a field 684 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: that we think fills the whole universe and interacts with 685 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: particles in a way, that gives them mass. So the reason, 686 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: for example, an electron doesn't have zero mass is that 687 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 1: it flies to the universe and interacts with the Higgs field, 688 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: which changes the way it moves so that it looks 689 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: like it has some inertial mass. It means that it 690 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: takes a force to push the electron to speed it up, 691 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: or also forced to slow it down. So the Higgs 692 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: field affects how particles move in a way that gives 693 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: them mass. Cool, and we knew about it for a 694 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: long time, but we discovered that recently. So that's the 695 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: Higgs field. But what does it mean that it was 696 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: created after the Big Bang? Like it wasn't always there, 697 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: or was it there but not active? This is actually 698 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: a really anxiest and deep question that goes to like 699 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: how we think about our physics. You know, we are 700 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: trying to find the deepest rules of the universe. We 701 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: think that maybe, as you were saying before, there are 702 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: like fundamental rules to the universe, like the equations that 703 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: cover everything. Now we don't think we have found those equations. 704 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: We have a standard model of particle physics that works 705 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: really really well, but we don't think that the equations 706 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: we have are like the ones that are really fundamentally true. 707 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: We think the equations we have sort of work for 708 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: the conditions that we have studied, and we don't think 709 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: that they're like the deep and true equations. So what 710 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: that means is that the laws we're talking about, including 711 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: like the existence of the Higgs field, are really just 712 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: like effective laws. It's sort of like if you are 713 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: living in ice and you've been studying the way ice works, 714 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: the crystal structure of it, and how it moves, and 715 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: how energy moves through it. The laws of how the 716 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: ice works are not like fundamental to the universe. They're 717 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: just descriptions of how the ice works, the physics of 718 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: that ice. And so in the same way, we suspect 719 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: that the universe used to be hotter, used to be denser, 720 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: and so it's effectively different laws of physics were at play. 721 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: So when we say the Higgs field was created, what 722 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: we really mean is that the universe cooled down to 723 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: a point where it makes sense to talk about the 724 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: Higgs field. Where the Higgs field is like a useful 725 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: mental idea for doing physics. I see, It's just we 726 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: don't know if the Higgs field is a fundamental thing. 727 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 1: You're saying, like there may be like higher laws or something, 728 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: But at least from what we know and what we 729 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: can see around, the Higgs field is a pretty good 730 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: description of what's going on. But that's not always the 731 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: case exactly. We're pretty sure that it isn't the case. Like, 732 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: if you try to take our theories and apply them 733 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: to really really crazy scenarios at the very beginning of 734 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 1: the universe, they just don't work. So we're pretty sure 735 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: that our laws, including the Higgs field, are not the 736 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: true laws of the universe. They're just the ones that 737 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: we have found that describe the situations we've been able 738 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: to explore. So if somebody says the Higgs field was created, 739 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit misleading. What they really 740 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: mean is that the universe cool to a point where 741 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: the Higgs field makes sense as a way to think 742 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: about the universe. M But I guess the weird thing 743 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: about it is that the Higgs field feels really fundamental, right. 744 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: It gives things mass. So does that mean that at 745 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: some point we didn't have mass? It like mass didn't 746 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: make sense in the universe. It could be It could 747 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: also be that there are just different rules, different ways 748 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: to get mass, or it could be like mass is 749 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: not an important concept. You know, everything that we're talking 750 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: about in the universe, we don't know if they are fundamental, 751 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: like essential elements of the universe or just emergence stuff 752 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: that like comes out of the complexity of the universe. 753 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 1: And you know, that's easy to think about for some things, 754 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: like for example, we have ice cream in the universe. 755 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: Ice Cream feels important, especially in a hot summer, but 756 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: it's not fundamental. You can imagine there could be universes 757 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: without ice cream, right, no big deal. Well, I beg 758 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: to different Daniel, what's the universe without ice cream? It 759 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: might not be worth living in. But you know there 760 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: are other things to difference rise into. But you can 761 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: also think that same logic and applies to other things 762 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: in the universe, like the Higgs field or even like 763 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: space it's self. Right, we talked in the podcast about 764 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: whether space itself is actually fundamental to the universe or 765 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: if you could have a universe without space. And we 766 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: physicists feel like, well, we don't really know the true 767 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: nature of the universe. We've just been studying this one 768 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: particular slice of the universe in a certain energy range, 769 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: a certain temperature range, because that's the one we live in, 770 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: and we know that our theories we try to do 771 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: calculations don't work at higher temperatures, and so we suspect 772 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: that some of the stuff that seems fundamental is actually 773 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: just emergent. It's just like an interesting property that comes about, 774 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: but isn't like deeply true about the universe. I guess, 775 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 1: going back to Alex's question, you're saying that the universe 776 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: at some point cooled down enough to where the Higgs 777 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: field came into effect, basically, and so I think his 778 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 1: question is like, did that happen everywhere at once or 779 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: did the universe sort of cool differently in different places, 780 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: and so what does that mean? Or is it cooling 781 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: right now in different places differently. So it's that there 782 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: are spots with the Higgs field and spots without the 783 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: Higgs field. Yeah, that is a really cool question. I 784 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: think the origin of his confusion is that he imagines 785 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: that the Higgs field was created in one place and 786 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: then would have to spread out through the universe. And 787 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: he's right that because information travels at the speed of light, 788 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: and space expands faster than the speed of light that 789 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: if that were the case, then the information wouldn't be 790 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: out through the whole universe, and there would be parts 791 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: of the universe without the Higgs field. But as you say, 792 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: we don't think the Higgs field was created just in 793 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: one place. The universe cools simultaneously everywhere. Remember, the Big 794 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: Bang is not like the explosion of a tiny, little 795 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: dense blob of matter in the early universe. It's the 796 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: expansion of the entire universe simultaneously. It happened everywhere at 797 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: the same time, and it's happening still. This expansion, this dilution, 798 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: this cooling of the universe, still happening everywhere. And so 799 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: we think that the whole universe cooled at once, and 800 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: this like moment when the Higgs fial was relevant probably 801 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: happened all over the universe. Now, it may have happened 802 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,280 Speaker 1: at slightly different times. There were different quantum fluctuary sations 803 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: in the early universe, so some bits were a little 804 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: hotter and some bits were a little cooler. So some 805 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: parts of the universe probably got the Higgs field before 806 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: other parts of the universe, as we say, but what 807 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: probably wasn't a very big difference. But you're saying there 808 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: was a moment in time in the universe where there 809 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: were spots like patches of Higgs field. Some places had it, 810 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: in some places maybe didn't. Yeah, and I can remember 811 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: we're not talking about like the physical creation of something. 812 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: We're talking about the universe transitioning from sort of a 813 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: phase where you can talk about the Higgs field where 814 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: it makes sense, to a phase where it doesn't. And 815 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: we don't really know what those phase transitions are alike. 816 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: You know, is it like going from a solid to 817 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: a liquid where it's really sudden and in one moment 818 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: at one set of rules applies, like motion through a crystal. 819 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: In another moment you're doing fluid dynamics, or is it 820 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: very gradual, the way like gases turned into plasmas. So 821 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: we really just don't know what that transition is like 822 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: we do, I have no idea what the physics was 823 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: like on the other side. That's one reason we want to, 824 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: for example, build bigger particle colliders to recreate those conditions 825 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: and like see the physics and those scenarios. Does the 826 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: Higgs field still work? What kind of theory do we 827 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: need to describe super duper high energy scenarios We just 828 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: don't know. Man, you just have to work in a 829 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: commercial for your job, like more funding to find out 830 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: the answer. Look, if we're talking to supervillains that have 831 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,399 Speaker 1: the capacity to build planet busting black holes, and yes, 832 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to pitch of twenty billion dollar project. Excuse me, great, 833 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I was thinking that the universe 834 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: sort of all cooled everywhere at once, and so maybe 835 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: there was a time from what we know that there 836 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: were patches of Higgs field or no Higgs field. But 837 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,839 Speaker 1: now as what we know what we can see, it's 838 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: all pretty cool down and everywhere that we know has 839 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: the Higgs field. Yeah, everywhere in the universe, the big 840 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 1: variations of temperature from here to the center of the Sun, 841 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: for example. But we think that all those places are 842 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: still described by the same physics where the Higgs field 843 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: is important. So we think that there's the Higgs field 844 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: all the way through the whole universe as far as 845 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: we are aware. I guess we have to add that 846 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,399 Speaker 1: caveat like it's there as far as we know. It's 847 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: as far as the observable universe, right, Like they could 848 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,240 Speaker 1: be that maybe our observable universe is in a patch 849 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: of cooler universe, and there might be patches of horder 850 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: universe elsewhere without a Higgs field. Yeah. If past the 851 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: edge of the observable universe it's really hot and dense, 852 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: crazy with hamsters eating French fries, then possibly the Higgs 853 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: field does not apply. Yeah. Wow, So I guess the 854 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: answer for Alex is that there are no patches of 855 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: no Higgs field as far as we know in the 856 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: observer world universe. But you know, who knows what's out 857 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: there beyond the observable universe, That's right? Who knows what 858 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,320 Speaker 1: those hamsters are dipping their French fries into mayonnaise, ketchup 859 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 1: ice cream, some weird combination. They're crazy and no coincidence. 860 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: Both hamsters and Higgs started with an age, So I'm 861 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,479 Speaker 1: sensing some sort of connection here. Maybe that's right. Maybe 862 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: it was a hamster field all along, that's right. Yeah, 863 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: twist ending called en Knights Shimelan, that's right. It's not 864 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: about the journey, it's about the hamsters you made along 865 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: the way. Al Right. Well, I think that answers Alex 866 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: and Ward's question. There might still be parts of the 867 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: universe without a field, in which case nobody has any 868 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 1: mass there, and so you can eat all the French 869 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: fries you want. That's right, you have the physicist approval 870 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: to eat all the French fries you want. No, technically speaking, 871 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: if there are portions of the universe too hot for 872 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: a Higgs field to apply, that we have no idea 873 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: what mass even means out there, So be careful and 874 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,919 Speaker 1: stick to your diet. All right. Well, that answers all 875 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: three listener questions. Thanks again for sending in your questions 876 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: and sharing your curiosity with us and with everybody else. Yeah, 877 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: we think that everybody should be asking questions about the universe, 878 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: and everyone's questions deserve answers. So don't be shy. Unleash 879 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: your intellect upon the cosmos and wonder if things fit together, 880 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: if things make sense to you. Because you might ask 881 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: a question that cracks open everything. You might ask a 882 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: question that breaks the hamster wheel off the universe. Well, 883 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,879 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed that. See 884 00:45:51,880 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel 885 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I 886 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio or more podcast from my heart Radio. Visit 887 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 888 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Ye