1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to our weekly classic episode Ridiculous Historians. Hey, nol 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: you remember Isaac Newton. 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: He's the apple guy, right, figs or something. It's a 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: fruited cake, cake, fruited cake. But isn't This isn't the 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: old tale of Isaac Newton discovering gravity when the apple 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: fell not too far from the tree and conked him 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: on the knoggin. 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: That's the anecdote for sure. And he also did a 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: lot of other stuff. We know him for his scientific pursuits, 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: like you were saying, But before we did this episode 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, we were not aware that he spent 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: some time as the Master of the Royal Mint. 13 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: He was an absolute salute when it came to spotting 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 2: fake currency. 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and unlike some royal positions, this was not ceremonial. 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: He took the job of bird dogging forgers seriously, and 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: he was getting a kind of Sherlock holmesy in about it. 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: No, there's a bit of a Holmes Moriarty rival in 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 3: this story and the Moriart two. Newton's Holmes was a 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: fellow by the name of William Challoner, a counterfeiting kingpen 21 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 3: and super villain Big Bat of today's tale. 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Oh Man, oh Man, 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: oh Man. Friends and neighbors, Fellow Ridiculous historians, Welcome to 24 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: the show. I for one, am excited because today's episode 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: concerns one of our favorite genres of historical individuals, the con. 26 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: Artist flim flat a man, which our last episode did 27 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 3: as well. 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: We have we have a preponderance of con artists in 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: the show, and I have no regrets about it. Who 30 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: am I? I'm Ben. 31 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: That's who you are. I'm Nol. This is Ridiculous History. 32 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: And who's that handsome man outside of the booth? Why 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: that devil as I live and breathe. That's super producer 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. Oh my goodness, gracious, I love it what 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: people say as I love it breathe. Well, it's funny too, 36 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: because when you said that sound, yes, I do a 37 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: lot that expression. But when you said that and then 38 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: the sound happened, a beautiful glint on Casey's pearly white, 39 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: very straight teeth lit up the room. It's true, It's true. 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: We off air Nol and I spend a lot of 41 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: time just sort of staring at Casey when we think 42 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: he's not looking. 43 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: You know, he always sees though. 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry I had to find out on air casey. 45 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fine. Though, it's fine. It's endearing, not creepy 46 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 2: at all. 47 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: Not creepy at all. Let's make that a T shirt. 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: We have so many ways to begin today's story. I 49 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: guess one of the easiest ways to begin it would 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: be to give a brief shout out to the King 51 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: of Gravity, Isaac Newton. 52 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: Can we have an airhorn? 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: There we go? 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: Yes, a boy, Isaac Newton invented gravity. 55 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: He did it beforehand. It was pandemonium and it was nuts. 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton was an English mathematician, an astronomer, a theologian. 57 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: He was described in his day as a natural philosopher, 58 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: one of the predecessors to what we would call a 59 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: scientist today. He was born in December of sixteen forty two, 60 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: the twenty fifth of December, and he lived until the 61 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: seventeen twenty seventeen twenty six, seventeen twenty seven. Today's episode 62 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: does not concern his many many innovations and his scientific pursuits. 63 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: It concerns something much more noir. 64 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: Can I also point out that in his day, he 65 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: was a dead sexy sob really asexual. 66 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: No way, He's like a sort of a Morrissey figure, 67 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: a less problematic Morrissey figure. 68 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: It's it's not too controversial to say that a lot 69 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: of people are less problematic than. 70 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: Morrissey, Right, I think that's very fair. 71 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: So he did. He did, by all accounts, die a virgin. 72 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: So maybe it's unfair to give him that term asexual 73 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: or ace, but he did divergin. 74 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: I put forth that he just didn't have time for 75 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 3: that kind of shenanigans. He was occupying his time with 76 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: more important pursuits, celestial pursuits and terrestrial pursuits. 77 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: Also true, Yeah, it's it's true. Maybe he was just busy, 78 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: sort of a a Tesla figure. We often hear about 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton in relation to his many many scientific pursuits 80 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: as well as some of his more spiritual or esoteric pursuits. 81 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: But what many of us may not know, I'll come 82 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: clean what I did not know before we began researching 83 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: this episode. He also he also worked as a lawman 84 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: of sorts. 85 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, now not only a lawman, like a sleuth, like 86 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 3: a Batman level detective. 87 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's put it. He took his scientific acumen 88 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: and his cognitive prowess and he applied it to the 89 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: problem of crime. Journey with us back to sixteen ninety five, 90 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: England's Royal Mint found out that they had a very, 91 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: very alarming problem. They had a bunch of currency in circulation, right, 92 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: A large portion of that currency was fake. It was counterfeit, 93 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: it was phony, and this is not a good look 94 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: for the Royal Mint, it's not a good look for 95 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: the economy at large. And the counterfeitting operations were growing 96 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: increasingly sophisticated, sort of like in the Terminator franchise, when 97 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: the original robots are easily distinguishable from humans, but then 98 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: they get better and better and better and increasingly difficult 99 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: to identify, unless. 100 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 3: We forget to mention that the man who discovered this 101 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: problem of counterfeit coin was Isaac Newton himself after he 102 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: was made the Warden of the Royal Mint. Not to 103 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: be confused with like Warden of the North or something, 104 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: but it really does carry quite a weighty aura the 105 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: term warden, you know, yeah, yeah. 106 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: Oh, and we just got new business cards and I'm 107 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: kicking myself. We could have chosen some time. Do you 108 00:06:58,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: think they would have led. 109 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: Us supervising Warden of Production. That sounds very Yeah. 110 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: When I first got business guards here way way back 111 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: in the day, because I've been here forever, they allowed 112 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: me to choose my own job title. Casey, you remember 113 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: this because I was I was pulling everybody, and I 114 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: got very close to changing my job titled to a 115 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: life coach or the experience like the Edge? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 116 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: but good. 117 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: This guitartoon is very influential. 118 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: I just think meeting someone and having to call them 119 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: the Edge, it's a preposterous expectation. 120 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: He also seems like a pretty boring dude, does he 121 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: just he's got likes his whole look. He just doesn't 122 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: seem I could be wrong. 123 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: I'm sure he's a great guy, but he seems like 124 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: the least edgy type of dude, especially when you go 125 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: by the name of the Edge. 126 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: You know, nicknames are weird, and he's not hurting anyone. 127 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad he's happy. I hope he's happy with the name. 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: I hope he doesn't feel trapped in that Moniker. 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you who wasn't happy. 130 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: It was Warden of the Royal Mint, Sir Isaac Newton, 131 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: in the year of sixteen ninety six when he made 132 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: that shocking discovery that twenty percent of the coins that 133 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: the Mint was circulating were in fact counterfeits, and he 134 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: decided to set out on a fact finding expedition. 135 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: Dare we say an investigation? 136 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we dare, because you see, Newton, it turns 137 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: out was quite talented as warden of the Mint, and 138 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: he was able to catch quite a few counterfeitters. Yet 139 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: there was one fellow very high in the world of 140 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: forgery and counterfeiting, a man named William Challoner, who kept 141 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: escaping Newton's grasp time after time. William Challoner is someone 142 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: who could be the subject of Gosh, a multiple episode 143 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: series all his own, and. 144 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: Much like our friend mister Fritz duff Kine in the 145 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: previous episode, this gentleman was also something of a villainous figure, 146 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: a villainous renaissance man if you will. 147 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, A grifter. William Challoner was born sometime in 148 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty to a poor family in Warwickshire, but he 149 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: eventually attained a great financial success through his career in 150 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: counterfeiting and through his career in con artistry. He started 151 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: by forging Birmingham groats. That was a English and Irish 152 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: silver coin that was worth fourpence, or it could also 153 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: be a Scottish coin originally worth fourpence. And from that 154 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: point he moved on to creating counterfeit Guiney's crowns, half crowns, banknotes, 155 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: even lottery tickets. There's one side note that we have 156 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: to get out of the way. He didn't just uh 157 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: make counterfeit currency for a time. Uh, he also made 158 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: and sold uh sexual aids. 159 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sexual coming in aids. 160 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: Can we say it on the show? 161 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: Come a third time? 162 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: Can we say it on the show? 163 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: You think surely we must? Dildosy dildos. 164 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, see, that was such a funny word because to 165 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: too many it would be considered a swear. 166 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: But it is such a silly, silly word. Yeah, it's you. 167 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: Know, it's still somehow sounds less dirty than the phrase dongle. 168 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: Dongle's way worse. Oh it's so bad. But yeah, A. 169 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: A false fallus, Yes there you go, Yes, a counterfeit fallus. 170 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: Oh my, you know we out there, we know we 171 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 3: talked about this off air, we did, and it's totally true. 172 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: So he was counterf not only was he counterfeiting money, 173 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 3: he was also counterfeiting penises. 174 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: So this is this is a a funny episode for 175 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: us because we had intended to record it earlier and 176 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: before we had to before I had to leave town 177 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: for a second, and when we got back together after 178 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: I came back, we had an extensive, I think what 179 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: over over an hour and a half kind of quest 180 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: to figure out if we had recorded this episode or not. 181 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 3: And I think it was because of the false Fallis discussion, 182 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 3: because we talked about it so much off air that 183 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: we were like, I think we maybe did do it, 184 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: you know, oh yeah. And then Casey, you know, on 185 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: the Case to the Rescue, let us know, to our 186 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 3: delight in fact, that we had not recorded this yet. 187 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: And this is what you hear before your very ears. 188 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: It was. It was hilarious because, as we do so often, 189 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: the two of us couldn't figure out what we were 190 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing, and so we basically flamed Casey, say, 191 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: please tell us what we have or have not done. 192 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: In Casey, by the way, thank you so much for 193 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: keeping the ship on course my pleasure. 194 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 2: Casey always on the case, always perpetually on the case. 195 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: So here we are William Challoner. He is described as 196 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: a wilful youth with dishonest tendencies. He is originally apprenticed 197 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: as a nail maker before he begins working in the 198 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: thriving counterfeit industry of London. In the sixteen seventies, he 199 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: purchased a largest state in the country so he could 200 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: move his minting process away from the heat, away from 201 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: the heat of London's law enforcement, and he had a 202 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: pretty good workflow set down. He would hire middlemen who 203 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: would pass the fake coins into circulation, and those guys 204 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: had the tough gig in his operation because the middlemen 205 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: were the ones who were often caught, and when they 206 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: were caught, they were hanged. Yikes, yikes indeed, and because 207 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: this was such a risky business, he garnered a reputation 208 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: sort of a Moriarty of finance, you know, a shadowy kingpin. 209 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: Holy crap, no, you're dead on, because there is like 210 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: this kind of Batman and Joker or Sherlock and Moriarty 211 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: relationship between these two men. He's sort of like the 212 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 3: one that got away the white whale, you know, for 213 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: our buddy Isaac Newton, who this guy was a thorn 214 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: in his side, because, like you said, he did a 215 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: pretty good job of cleaning up the counterfeit scene, but 216 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 3: this gentleman. 217 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: Continued to slip through his fingers. 218 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a big part of this comes about because 219 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: in the sixteen nineties English currency was moving away from 220 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: purely coin based stuff enough to note banknotes and paper money, 221 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: and Chaloner, although he had a lot of close calls 222 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: for a long time, he avoided the law or the 223 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: punishment for his crimes because the development of paper money 224 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: was in advance of the laws created to ban forging 225 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: paper money. Which sounds a little bit word salady. A 226 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: better way to say it is that technology will typically 227 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: outpace legislation, where running into it in twenty nineteen will 228 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: be running into it in the year three thousand, totally 229 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: sixteen nineties no different, because the wheels of justice grind 230 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: ever so slowly, while the wheels of commerce and progress 231 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: tend to be a little more lightning quick. Yeah, and 232 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: his success became as undoing because he got squarely in 233 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: the crosshairs of Sir Isaac the Warden himself and Chaloner. 234 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: Although he had escaped jail for numerous years and had 235 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: never had to serve time he had not escaped unscathed. 236 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: He had a long paper trail of arrest and accusations, 237 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: and this helped paint a picture of a guy who 238 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on the wrong side of 239 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: the law, and he was also a rat. Did you 240 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: hear about this? 241 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: No? No, I didn't, but nobody likes a rat. 242 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 243 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: He managed to get out of legal trouble multiple times 244 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: by selling out other counterfeitters, and so of the counterfeitters 245 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: that he had sold out who had been imprisoned or 246 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: punished and not killed or not executed, Sir Isaac was 247 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: able to question these guys and gather many people who 248 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: would say, yeah, I'll go to court. I will point 249 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: out that dirty rat Billy Challoner because I want my revenge, 250 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: to which Isaac's all right, let's make it, let's make 251 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: it official. 252 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's make a deal. 253 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: He may have slipped the news spend, but he did 254 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: not slip the clink because Newton was able to amass 255 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: enough evidence and these witness testimonies to get him locked up. 256 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 3: But it didn't really take did it. 257 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: No, No, he bribed the prosecution star witness, paid the 258 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: witness enough money to flee to Scotland, and then Chaloner 259 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: was released and he accused Newton of framing an innocent man. 260 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: We should step back for a second and say that 261 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: Newton knows and despise his challenger at this point, because 262 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: earlier Chaloner had appeared before Parliamentary Committee and he said 263 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: that Newton was incompetent, terrible at his job and that 264 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: the Mint employees were the ones responsible for the epidemic 265 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: of counterfeit currency. So this is two strikes against the 266 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: guy in Newton's mind, and this attack on his integra 267 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: enrages him. So he decides that he is going to 268 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: play dirty as well as you will call it an 269 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: old dirty pool. He began bribing crooks for information, He 270 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: started making threats. He found not only Challoner's associates, but 271 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: the wives and mistresses of his associates and started intimidating 272 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: and threatening them. In short, as Judy Dutton says in 273 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: an excellent article of Mental Floss, Newton became the dirty 274 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: Harry of his time. 275 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: I don't understand that reference. 276 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: Dirty Harry. Are you serious? 277 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: What is he like? Is he a cop? I don't 278 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 2: know what dirty Harry is, Casey, He's. 279 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: A cop that doesn't follow the rules, doesn't like a 280 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: lot of red. 281 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: Tape, so he's sort of like a Surpaco type figure. 282 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: He asks punks if they're feeling lucky. 283 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: Clint Eastwood, did he have to be at a big 284 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: giant gun? Didn't he a big old magnum? 285 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? 286 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Casey on the case. 287 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: Can we get a do you feel like he punk? 288 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 4: I know what you're thinking, Bunker, You're thinking did he 289 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 4: fire six? 290 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: Shots? 291 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 2: Are only five? 292 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 4: Now? 293 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: I tell you the truth? 294 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 4: Ever, haud myself and all this excitement, but being this 295 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 4: as a forty four bag in the most powerful handgun 296 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: in the world and will blow your head clean off, 297 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 4: you could ask yourself question, do I feel lucky? Well? 298 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: Do you punk? Perfect? 299 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: So yes, the comparison does hold because he was operating 300 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: outside of the law, and he spent two more years 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: chasing down Challenger, and eventually his ethically questionable methods give 302 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: him enough evidence to put Challenger away for good. 303 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 3: I picture Isaac Newton with his you know, very expertly 304 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 3: quaffed ringlets, you know, and his kind of a ruffel shirt, 305 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: you know, in some sort of velvet. Would you call 306 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: that a doublet or something like that like waterboarding dudes 307 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: and back room you know, dunking their heads and toilets 308 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 3: and stuff like that, just to get to this guy, Chaloner, 309 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: you know, and who knows. 310 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: It could have happened just like that. 311 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: This is sterio. But for some reason, I see I 312 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: see a dildo with the intimidation tactics. Can we we 313 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: should probably cut that? 314 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: No, no, no, okay, let's let's let's get your mind 315 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 3: out of the of the gutter. He clearly would have 316 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 3: used it as more of a blackjack kind of thing. 317 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 3: That's what I'm thinking, because I could probably beat somebody 318 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: with a dildo and it wouldn't leave a mark. 319 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: I'm not like a sack of oranges. Yeah, I'm not. 320 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not thinking of something sexual. I'm thinking 321 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: of just an intimidation. 322 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: I know I was helping you out to thank you, thanks. 323 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: For the safe. On March third, sixteen ninety nine, Challoner 324 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: is found guilty of high treason, and he is sentenced 325 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: to hang the very next day. Before his sentence is 326 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: carried out, several days before, Challoner has written Newton a 327 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: long letter proclaiming his innocence, And we have a little 328 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: bit we can read an excerpt, but we're not going 329 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: to read the whole letter, because he writes them a 330 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: series of letters that go on. And here's one example. 331 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: I have been close prisoner eleven weeks, and no friends 332 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: suffered to come near me but my little child. And 333 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: I am not guilty of any crime. And why am 334 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: I so strictly confined? I do not know. I doubt sir, 335 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: you are greatly displeased with me about the late business 336 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: in parliament. But if you knew that truth, you would 337 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: not be angry with me, for it was brought in 338 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: by some persons against my desire. 339 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: My favorite line exert that was wonderful read Ben, is. 340 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 2: I Am going to be method? It says m u 341 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: r t h e r ed, but then later spells 342 00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 2: it correctly. 343 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 3: I'm not sure this is a typo on this website, 344 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 3: the Newton Project dot ox dot AC dot UK, but 345 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 3: I like to believe that he chose to spell murdered mirthod. 346 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 3: So he says I'm going to be method, although perhaps 347 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: you may think not, but tis true. I shall be 348 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: madered the worse of all murders, that is, in the 349 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: face of justice with an I. So it's like iftis 350 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 3: and unless I am rescued. 351 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: By your merciful hands. Yes. Yeah. 352 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: One of the very last lines he has is, bras 353 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: consider that these persons that those accuse me are those 354 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: formerly convicted for crimes, and hope your worship nor the 355 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: court will believe the suggestions of such evil persons against me. 356 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: That's a very similar argument to what's going on right 357 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 3: now in the trial of drug kingpin El Chapo. Apparently, 358 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 3: you know, the prosecution had dozens and dozens of witnesses 359 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: and El Chapo's lawyer had I think no witnesses, and 360 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 3: El Chopo didn't even take the stand, and his lawyer's 361 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 3: whole defense was, all of these witnesses are scum and 362 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: they're just trying to, you know, get out of their 363 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 3: own problems. 364 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: Right, get their own plea deals. 365 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: And he signs this lettered y're near murdered, humble sevants 366 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: w challoner. It's quite pitiful because he's literally begging this 367 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: man for his life. He's been bested by his nemesis, 368 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 3: and now he's behind bars, awaiting the noose. 369 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: Yep, this did not work. No, Newton felt no pity. 370 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: He even adding an insult to injury. Did the ultimate snub. 371 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: He did not attend the hanging. He stayed home. I 372 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: guess he was busy. Maybe something was on the seventeenth 373 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: century netflix, maybe he was you know, it. 374 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 3: Was probably the crown, it was probably the crowd. Maybe 375 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 3: he was at home nursing his ego. But everybody knew 376 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: he's guilty. Quick correction is said that he was supposed 377 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: to be hanging to the next day. He was sentenced 378 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: the day after the trial, and he had a fortnight 379 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 3: in which he wrote those letters. 380 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: What is that two weeks time? 381 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a period of two weeks. And over these 382 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: two weeks, that's when he writes these series of increasingly 383 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: desperate letters, not just in Newton, but to Justin Railton, 384 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: who was the supervising magistrate. And you can see the 385 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: stages of grief. They are apparent in these letters. 386 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: Let's go through them. 387 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: Of course, there are five stages. The first is denial, 388 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: which he was obviously doing. Then there's anger, he was 389 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: aggressive in these letters. Then there's bargaining, which he had 390 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: dubbed before by saying he would name other people. Then 391 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: there's depression, which was probably a personal thing for him, 392 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: and acceptance, which I don't think he really reached. So 393 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: Newton had written during Chaloner's first trial, the one where 394 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: he got away, that the counterfeiter had formed a quote 395 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: confederacy against the Wold and Chaloner could have lived a long, 396 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: honest life had he let the money and the government alone. 397 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: After this is very interesting, and this is kind of sketchy. 398 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: After Chaloner is executed, Newton takes all the records of 399 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: his investigation and burns them. He destroys all records of 400 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: his involvement in the investigation, and nowadays scholars believe that 401 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: is solely to cover up the ways that he broke 402 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: the law in pursuit of this counterfeiter. Jeez, so he 403 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: definitely did some dirty cop tactics. He continues working in 404 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: law enforcement until seventeen o three, when he turns in 405 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: his badge figuratively speaking, and becomes President of the Royal Society, 406 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: returning to the world of academia. 407 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, to live out his twilight years. But man, he 408 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 3: had a stretch there for a while. He was something 409 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 3: of a bad cop. Badass, wasn't it. 410 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely And there ends the story of the counterfeit Kingpin 411 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: William Challoner, who was hanged on the twenty second March 412 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: sixteen ninety nine, The Physicist and the Forger, The Physicist 413 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: and the Forger. That's wonderful. This also reminds me I 414 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: have a great book I would like to recommend, called 415 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: The Professor and the Madman. Did we ever talk about 416 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: this on air? We had to. We did an episode 417 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: related to this guy, The Oxford English Dictionary. 418 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: Oh okay, it doesn't ring about Ben. It's all a 419 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 2: blur for me. 420 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: It's The Professor and the Madman, a tale of murder, 421 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: insanity and the making of the Oxford English Dictionary. Reminds 422 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: me of the strange pairing we have here with Newton 423 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: and Challoner. And what, you know, what it inspires me 424 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: to think about would be other stories of these great rivalries, 425 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like the Untouchables and organized crime. 426 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: I wonder what other stories are out there. There's something 427 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: so compelling, so there's a high drama to it, you know. 428 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 2: Big time. I'd love to see a film adaptation of 429 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: this rivalry. 430 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: Who would play Newton? 431 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 3: I'm going to say, I don't know, maybe Benedict Cumberbatch. 432 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: Are you are you? Are you getting a Sherlock? I 433 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: would be interested to see Steve Buscemi play either of 434 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: these characters. I think he would make a fantastic Newton. 435 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 3: I think you're right, but I honestly think he might 436 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 3: do better as the weird, twitchy villain guy. 437 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: Because of his eyes. 438 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: Yep, those eyes. 439 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: Let us know what stories of personal crime rivalries have 440 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: captured your attention, and don't just let us know. You 441 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: can also let your fellow listeners know by finding us 442 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: on Instagram, by finding us on Twitter, or by finding 443 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: us on our Facebook community page, Ridiculous Historians. 444 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 3: Big thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, to Alex Williams, 445 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: who composed our theme, to Gabe, our delightful and talented 446 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 3: research associate, and to you Ridiculous Historians for checking out 447 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 3: the show. 448 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: Speaking of checking out, if you want to see our 449 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: off air, sometimes non ridiculous history related adventures, you can 450 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: follow us on our very own instagrams. I am in 451 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: a burst of creativity at Ben Bullen. 452 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 2: And I am at Embryonic Insider. 453 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 1: Which I don't think I've ever said this on air. 454 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: I don't think i've said this to you in person ever. 455 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: We've known each other for years, but I think that's 456 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: a cool name. 457 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 3: Oh thanks, man, it's actually it was a name of 458 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 3: a song in a band that I was in, a 459 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 3: kind of a little bit embarrassing, tidbit for my youth, 460 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: kind of like a new metal type band that you 461 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 3: cannot find anywhere, so don't even look around for it. 462 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 3: We had a song called Embryonic inside and changed it. 463 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 2: It goes It's the inside scoop. 464 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: Peep Peek behind the Curtain for more inside scoops on 465 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: the ridiculous, bizarre and hilarious tales of human History. Stay 466 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: tuned for our upcoming episodes, and swing by our website, 467 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Hisstoryshow dot com. We're in the t shirt business, 468 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: as I think we've mentioned before, and you know it's 469 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: probably time for us to add some new t shirts. 470 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: Noll. 471 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: My favorite and our newest is Casey on the Case. 472 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 2: Does it exists? 473 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's there. It's really cool. Casey. I don't 474 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: think I didn't hear you slip in that other Casey 475 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: on the Case sound cute. No, seriously, man, you don't 476 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: have to do it every time. 477 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: We say the phrase, but it's fine when he does. 478 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: It's so good. See you next time, folks. 479 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 480 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.