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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly reminder that where there's bad things, there's good things,

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Speaker 2: and some things are neither good nor bad, but are

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Speaker 2: instead your host like me, Marta Kiljoy and my guest

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Speaker 2: who is good. I don't know why I'm ontologically describing

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Speaker 2: everything all of a sudden, but Hi, Miriam, how are you?

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Speaker 3: Hi? I think you're good.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Thanks. I got called a paladin by my ex

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Speaker 2: and I think it was like in parentheses, derogatory, but

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Speaker 2: so it goes.

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Speaker 3: I could see it. I could see it.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's just actually accurate. It took me by surprise.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a bard, but it turns out

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Speaker 2: I'm a paladin.

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of paladins who think they're rogues,

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Speaker 3: and it's like, listen, yeah, just because you do a

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Speaker 3: lot of crime doesn't mean you're not a paladin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we do like talking about people who live

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Speaker 2: and die by their moral code. But before I introduce

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Speaker 2: what this episode is about, first I want to say, Miriam,

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Speaker 2: you might recognize from this show or as my new

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Speaker 2: co host on Live Like the World Is Dying, my

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Speaker 2: individual Community Preparedness podcast, or rather our individual Community Preparedness podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also you might recognize from this very podcast our producer

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Speaker 2: Sophie Hi, Sophie, Welcome back, Hi, happy to be here.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Miriam, our audio engineers Daniel Hi, Danel Hi, Daniel Hi, Danel.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music is written forced by unwoman. And before

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Speaker 2: we tell Miriam what we're talking about, a fun preamble. Yay.

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Speaker 2: No one can see as I gesticulate except the people

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Speaker 2: who are on the call with me.

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Speaker 3: Margaret just made a gesture that should have been accompanied

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Speaker 3: by like twinkly music and like animated sparkles.

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Speaker 2: Fame, prominence, notoriety. These are fickle things. Time and time

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Speaker 2: again in my research, I'll run across this thing that's

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Speaker 2: like the best selling novel of its generation and I

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Speaker 2: have never heard of it, right, And they'll be like

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Speaker 2: the most prominent revolutionary in all of sixteenth century France,

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Speaker 2: and I'll be like, I, Nope, I've never heard of

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Speaker 2: this person whatsoever. And what or who we remember is

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Speaker 2: a political choice made by historians, because I often find

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Speaker 2: things that are pretty recent that were a very big

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Speaker 2: deal at the time, that are completely gone. Now. The

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Speaker 2: story we're going to talk about today is not a

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Speaker 2: story that's well known, even though it's about one of

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Speaker 2: the most prominent black men in America in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: tens and nineteen twenties. It's a story about a labor

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Speaker 2: organizer who pulled together the most diverse union the country

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Speaker 2: had ever seen, who went to prison for doing that

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Speaker 2: work and became the second most prominent black political prisoner

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Speaker 2: of his generation after Marcus Garvey, who is more remembered today,

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Speaker 2: although not enough people remember things. But of course I

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Speaker 2: say that because my job is to read history books,

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Speaker 2: and I'm very convinced that it matters.

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Speaker 3: If we all already remembered these things. Margarete, you would

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Speaker 3: have no job.

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Speaker 2: So oh interesting, Well, okay, hear me out. It could

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Speaker 2: be like folklore, or we just tell the same stories

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Speaker 2: over and over again.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Like we'd all just be sitting around the fire

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Speaker 3: and we'd be like, tell us about the IWW.

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Speaker 2: Again And you would be like, I will you read

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Speaker 2: the script? How do you know that?

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Speaker 3: So I still don't know who we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the man we're going to talk about today, we

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Speaker 2: know very very little about his life. We know a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about his work because he was a

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Speaker 2: working class black man who kept no journal and had

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Speaker 2: no children, so there was no one specifically like who

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Speaker 2: made it their job to try and make sure he

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Speaker 2: was remembered. And also the political positions that he took

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Speaker 2: became very unpopular from both the right and the left,

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Speaker 2: and so he's not remembered so much. Most of the

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Speaker 2: letters we have from him are ones that he wrote

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Speaker 2: in prison. I'm gonna tell you who he is, but

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna tell you yet. We know that he

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Speaker 2: was funny, we know that he was fierce. We know

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Speaker 2: that he fought tirelessly for class solidarity across racial lines,

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Speaker 2: and we know that he fought hard for Dear listener,

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Speaker 2: get ready to either take a drink or mark off

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Speaker 2: a space on your Bengo cards. He fought hard for

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Speaker 2: his union, the Industrial Workers of the World.

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Speaker 3: Thank god you didn't say tuberculosis the other square on

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Speaker 3: the Bigo card.

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Speaker 2: There is no tuberculosis in today's episode, so I'm afraid

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Speaker 2: you're gonna have to play without your free space. Everyone incredible.

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Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about Ben Fletcher. You ever

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Speaker 2: heard of Ben Fletcher?

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Speaker 3: I have not heard of Ben Fletcher, and that surprises

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Speaker 3: me because I've read, you know, not as much as you,

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Speaker 3: but I've read about the iww a bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't know or talk about Ben Fletcher. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have remembered his name a year ago. If you

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Speaker 2: had told me the outline of this story, I'd be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that guy. And you know, it's been a like little

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Speaker 2: thing on my list of potential subjects for a very

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Speaker 2: long time, right, and like always, like I started reading

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Speaker 2: about this and I'm like, no, seriously, why don't I

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Speaker 2: know more about this? Why don't more people know about this?

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Speaker 2: Ben Fletcher was one of the organizers of the infamous

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Speaker 2: at the time and completely not remembered today. Philadelphia Dock

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Speaker 2: Workers Union Local eight and I absolutely picked this because

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Speaker 2: it has boats in it.

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Speaker 3: I love boats. I love a Philadelphia dock Workers Union

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 2: I thought about giving you more Pirates just to troy you,

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Speaker 2: and then I was like, no, I'm going to be nice.

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Speaker 3: I like pirates too.

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Speaker 2: One day I'll give you more Pirates. Local eight is

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Speaker 2: not where the one hit wonder band Local AH from

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Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties got its name. No one thought that

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Speaker 2: except me, But what was their one hit Bound for

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Speaker 2: the floor. This is I'm just older than everyone in

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Speaker 2: the world. Okay, were a perfectly fine alt rock band

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Speaker 2: of the late nineteen nineties that had a song that

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Speaker 2: was on the radio.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, honestly perfectly fine alt rock bands. We didn't know

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Speaker 3: how lucky we were in the nineties. We were spoiled

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Speaker 3: for perfectly fine alt rock bands. They were everywhere, you.

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Speaker 2: Mean, because they weren't like Nazis or whatever or like,

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Speaker 2: cause they.

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Speaker 3: Were just like were on the radio and stuff. I

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Speaker 3: feel like you don't hear that stuff anymore.

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Speaker 2: I hate it. I hate alt rock. I grew up

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Speaker 2: in like the worst time musically from my point of view, like.

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Speaker 3: Your contrarian music point of view, you're accordionist music point

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Speaker 3: of view, but.

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Speaker 2: In my mind, like pop music was better ten years

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Speaker 2: earlier and ten years later. But whatever. Anyway, nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with Local eight. We can't piece together an entire

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Speaker 2: biography for him, but historian Peter Cole has done the

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Speaker 2: closest that can be done with his book Ben Fletcher,

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Speaker 2: The Life and Time Is of Black Wobbly, And that

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Speaker 2: was probably the core of my research, supplemented by a

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Speaker 2: bunch of articles written by the labor historians, mostly mostly

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Speaker 2: on Libcom and a few other places that get into

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Speaker 2: the broader context around some of the other unions that

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Speaker 2: were going on and things like that, and strikes in

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia in general. But what we do know about him,

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Speaker 2: we know, for example, that Benjamin Harrison Fletcher was born

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Speaker 2: on April thirteenth, eighteen ninety in Philadelphia. Do either of

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Speaker 2: you know who Benjamin Harrison Fletcher is named after.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm assuming somebody named Benjamin Harrison.

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Speaker 2: But did you know that we had a president of

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Speaker 2: the United States named Benjamin Harrison? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Wait, No, I knew about William Henry Harrison because he

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Speaker 3: was had the best presidential.

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Speaker 2: Tim Oh, this makes so much more sense. Okay, we

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Speaker 2: had William Henderson. I guess I take your word for it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know, you know there was that Simpsons

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Speaker 3: where they had the song about the mediocre presidents, and

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Speaker 3: one of them was William Henry Harrison. I died in

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Speaker 3: thirty days, you know.

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Speaker 2: No, I looked it up Benjamin Harrison. I was right.

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Speaker 2: My script was right. The twenty third president of the

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Speaker 2: United State dates was named Benjamin Harrison.

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, I'm like doing the song in my head

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Speaker 1: of all the presidents that my mom had to learn

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Speaker 1: in school and would sing to me and there he is.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Wait did I make up William Henry Harrison? Did

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Speaker 3: the Simpsons make up William Henry Harrison.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea who William Harrison is. Maybe there

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Speaker 2: is one. I don't know. I don't know all the presidents.

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Speaker 2: This is what everyone's learning.

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Speaker 3: I mean, fuck presidents whatever.

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Speaker 1: No William Henry, No, William hen I'm doing the song

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Speaker 1: about it was like the ninth president. There's two Harrisons. Oh, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: get an original last name people.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: If there's one thing that America seems to love doing,

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Speaker 3: it's electing people with the same last name as previously

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Speaker 3: elected people and then wondering why nothing ever changes now.

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Speaker 1: I want to know if they're related.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: William Henry Harrison is the ninth president and Benjamin Harrison

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Speaker 1: was the twenty third.

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Speaker 2: Twenty third, so there's a big space.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Margaret, your podcast has been hijacked by us trying

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Speaker 3: to solve the mystery of the Harrisons.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, this is now a Benjamin Harrison podcast.

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Speaker 2: We are actually just going to talk about the original

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Speaker 2: Benjamin Harrison. Instead are they related.

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of Old Tip a Canoe

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Speaker 1: Henry Harrison, ninth President of the United States.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're just making things up now, Old tip a Canoe.

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna be.

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Speaker 3: Making up facts about presidents. Now, that's a word I've

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Speaker 3: never had to say out loud.

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Speaker 1: So if I said it wrong, I'm sorry. I've never

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Speaker 1: even seen that in writing.

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Speaker 3: You know, you know what, I just unbidden. The campaign

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Speaker 3: slogan tipp a Canoe and Tyler too has entered my head,

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Speaker 3: and I realized I have read about that president at

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Speaker 3: some point. This is so I don't want to I

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Speaker 3: don't care about this. I want to know about this guy.

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Speaker 2: No, we're gonna go onward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get away from this weird, fucking authoritarian nepotism.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell you a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the president really quickly.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: I described him in the script as AKA the president.

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Speaker 2: That made me be like, there was a president named

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Speaker 2: Benjamin Harrison, And I had to put that back in

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Speaker 2: because it's like my best joke in the script, so

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Speaker 2: I had to like shoehorn it in. Anyway, President Harrison

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Speaker 2: was a Republican and that party was riding high on

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Speaker 2: the were the party that freed the slaves. Thing just then, right,

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Speaker 2: So Republicans were understandably popular with Black Americans, popular enough

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Speaker 2: that Ben was named after the guy. That's it. That's

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Speaker 2: all we're going to talk about, the president.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm desperately hoping for us to get away from

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Speaker 3: these presidents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No. His parents were Dennis and Esther, and they

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Speaker 2: were born before emancipation in Virginia and Maryland, respectively. The

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Speaker 2: overwhelmingly most likely scenario here is that they were enslaved.

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Speaker 2: There's no evidence one way or the other about this,

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Speaker 2: and they were most likely freed by the thirteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: Many people have claimed that Ben Fletcher also had indigenous

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Speaker 2: ancestry as well. This would not be surprising based on

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Speaker 2: where his family was from, but the historian who talked

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Speaker 2: about it wasn't able to confirm Its and Esther fled

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Speaker 2: their respective states to get the fuck away from the

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Speaker 2: failure of reconstruction in the South. They had both given

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Speaker 2: it a shot, and they were like, oh, okay, emancipations,

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Speaker 2: all right, this is going all right. And then they're like, oh, fuck,

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Speaker 2: here comes the end of reconstruction. This is bad. The

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Speaker 2: races are taking over. We're getting the fuck out here.

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Speaker 2: So they went to Philly sometime in the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: They got married in eighteen eighty nine. They only met once.

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Speaker 2: They were in Philly separately, and they had little Ben

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Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety. His mom passed away sometime between nineteen

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Speaker 2: hundred and nineteen oh five. He was like ten to fifteen,

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Speaker 2: but his dad stayed very much a figure in Ben's

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Speaker 2: life most of the time. I'm aware of Ben living

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Speaker 2: somewhere as an adult, it's with his father and his

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Speaker 2: wife in a multi generational household. As a little kid,

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Speaker 2: Ben Fletcher who always went by Ben and not Benjamin

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Speaker 2: Harrison or whatever. Ben was smart as fuck, but there

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Speaker 2: weren't exactly a lot of educational opportunities available to him,

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Speaker 2: and he never graduated high school. He was incredibly well

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Speaker 2: read and worldly, and it was all self taught. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: I like him. He's cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he sounds great.

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Speaker 2: So far. He grew up to be all of a

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Speaker 2: towering five foot four tall, a short king, just like

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Speaker 2: our man John Henry. Inasmuch as anywhere in America could

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Speaker 2: be a decent place to grow up as a black

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Speaker 2: person from the working class. At the turn of the century,

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Speaker 2: Philly was a decent place. There had been a healthy

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Speaker 2: black community in Philly for a very long time. It

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Speaker 2: was also one of the most segregated. I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to paint a rosy picture here, right, but there had

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Speaker 2: been a healthy black community in Philly for a very

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Speaker 2: long time. Pennsylvania has Quaker roots, and the Quakers were

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Speaker 2: pretty big into the like what if owning people is

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Speaker 2: the wrong idea morally? So eighteen thirties, Philly was one

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Speaker 2: of the centers of the abolitionist movement. By the time

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Speaker 2: Fletcher was born in eighteen ninety, Philly had the largest

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Speaker 2: black community in any US city besides the South. It

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Speaker 2: was still racist as fuck structurally, more or less, the

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Speaker 2: only job black men could get was laborer because white

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Speaker 2: people only hired white people. Skilled labor mostly went to

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Speaker 2: native born white Americans of English, Irish and German descent,

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Speaker 2: while textile factory work was mostly Italian and Eastern European

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Speaker 2: Jewish immigrants, which left black men in particular with laborer

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Speaker 2: or sometimes long Shorman. And we'll get to that. We

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Speaker 2: don't know a lot about Ben's teenaged years. We know

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Speaker 2: when he was twenty, so he kind of like appears

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Speaker 2: in history when he's twenty fully formed from the brain

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Speaker 2: of I don't know enough mythology to know what I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to say here, of the like people who appear

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Speaker 2: fully formed. Sure, yeah, great, he told the census his

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Speaker 2: job was laborer in nineteen ten, and that's like kind

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Speaker 2: of like where he shows up in the historical record.

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Speaker 2: As was fairly typical of pre redlining Philly. He lived

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Speaker 2: in a racially diverse neighborhood and his next door neighbor

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Speaker 2: was white, which I always think is like kind of

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Speaker 2: worth pointing out, just because I think people have this

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Speaker 2: conception of racial progress as linear in the United States

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Speaker 2: and forget that there was this massive back turn in

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Speaker 2: the beginning of the twentieth century. Yeah, one of the

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Speaker 2: primary sources of employment for black workers in Philly was

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Speaker 2: the docks. A longshoreman basically means someone who loads and

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Speaker 2: unloads cargo off of boats. You might know this better

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Speaker 2: than me. I tried to do a whole thing about

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Speaker 2: the difference between Steve ADOR's longshoremen and dockers, and then

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, I'm not trying to learn.

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Speaker 3: My Yeah, I mean my understanding is Steve Adoor's work

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Speaker 3: on ships. Long Shoremen work on docks, and I've always

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Speaker 3: thought dockers and long shoremen were kind of the same thing, but.

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Speaker 2: That maps with the like I just didn't want to

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Speaker 2: be wrong. Yeah, it seems like the stevedors are the

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Speaker 2: people who go with the boat to where it's going yea,

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Speaker 2: and the longshoremen slash dockers take stuff on and off

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Speaker 2: the boat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're a long shore.

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Speaker 2: You want to hear me talk shit on the labor

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Speaker 2: movement of the early twentieth century late nineteenth century.

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Speaker 3: Love to what do you think I showed up for?

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Speaker 2: Most of the docks on the East Coast at this

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Speaker 2: time were unionized. Technically. I'm going to call this technically

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Speaker 2: because the more I'm reading about these unions, the more

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Speaker 2: accurate I think it would be to describe the American

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Speaker 2: Federation of Labor at this time as a white supremacist

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Speaker 2: organization instead of a labor organization. It was a segregated union.

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Speaker 2: Many unions that were whites only entirely were part of it,

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Speaker 2: and the unions affiliated with the International Longshoreman's Union the ILA,

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Speaker 2: which is actually a totally separate origin than the modern

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Speaker 2: ILW whatever, the current Longshoreman's Union, which is like way

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Speaker 2: more red. By and large, the ILA served as job

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Speaker 2: trusts for people of certain ethnicities, the quote historian Peter Cole,

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Speaker 2: because the role of unions was to protect white workers,

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Speaker 2: and at least as much to protect them from non

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Speaker 2: white workers as for the bosses. You would think point

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Speaker 2: of a union is to protect you from the bosses,

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Speaker 2: But nah, just maintaining white supremacy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: For a while, the move among white union organizers was like,

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Speaker 3: let's not let black people into the union, and then

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Speaker 3: black people would work non union and they'd be like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, they're scabs. Yeah, and it's like, do

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Speaker 3: you see how you have created this problem by being

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Speaker 3: a racist piece of shit?

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Speaker 2: And they were like, no, no, I don't understand. Why

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Speaker 2: would I think that you don't understand they've offered me whiteness.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I just got this and it's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. All I had to do was give up everything

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Speaker 2: about everything that I love from where my family comes from,

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Speaker 2: and then in exchange, I get to be better than

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Speaker 2: someone else.

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Speaker 3: No one will regret this, No, it'll.

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Speaker 2: Never go badly. We're going to talk a lot about

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Speaker 2: how it went badly. There's this idea in systems theory

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Speaker 2: that I learned about recently that I love. I don't

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Speaker 2: know shit about systems theory, but I know this quote.

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Speaker 2: The purpose of a system is what it does, and

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Speaker 2: it is the way of looking at something where you

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Speaker 2: can be like, I don't care what you claim that

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Speaker 2: this system has as a purpose. The thing that the

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Speaker 2: system does is the purpose of the system, and it

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Speaker 2: is like useless to pretend otherwise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that tracks.

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Speaker 2: Therefore, I'm arguing the purpose of the AFL at this

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Speaker 2: point in history was white supremacy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds exactly right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, in the eighteen forties, the Irish had physically

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Speaker 2: fought to take over working the docks in Philly, but

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Speaker 2: they never actually formally unionized in Philly, unlike in Baltimore

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Speaker 2: and New York, where the Irish took over the docks

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Speaker 2: and unionized with the ILA. So this an ununionized workplace,

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Speaker 2: actually wound up better. Black migrants from the South and

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Speaker 2: Eastern European immigrants showed up willing to work for less,

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Speaker 2: and the docks were diversified right, which meant that the

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Speaker 2: Philly dock workers by the time that they wanted a union.

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Speaker 2: They wanted an anti racist union. They wanted the Industrial

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Speaker 2: Workers of the World, the IWW aka the Wobbleys. Much

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Speaker 2: like you, dear listener, want to take advantage of all

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Speaker 2: of the things the offers services. Advertisement is exciting to you,

364
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:39,160
Speaker 2: just like this. It's the same. Here's ads and we're back.

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Speaker 2: So we you talked about the IWW a thousand times

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Speaker 2: on this show, and so we're not going to deep

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Speaker 2: dive it, but it's worth understanding. We have to do

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Speaker 2: it enough. For this is the first time you've listened

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Speaker 2: to this show. I want you to be able to

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Speaker 2: understand what we're talking about. The IWW is going to

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Speaker 2: go on to change the face of the world in

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Speaker 2: a way that I didn't realize before I started doing

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Speaker 2: this show. Right, they're like, Oh, it's a cool old

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Speaker 2: radical union from back in the day that's technically still around.

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Speaker 2: The more you see how all of these things are connected,

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Speaker 2: the more you realize that this idea that came out

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Speaker 2: of the United States of the IWW changed twentieth century history.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were. I mean they don't just like pop

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Speaker 3: up in everything like in that way of It's not

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Speaker 3: like random that they pop up in everything. They pop

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Speaker 3: up in everything because they were involved in everything, because

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Speaker 3: they were awesome.

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Speaker 2: Right, and they inspired everyone, And they introduced revolutionary unionism

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Speaker 2: that organizes across national, gender, racial, and ideological lines. The

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Speaker 2: core idea of the IWW is summed up in the

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Speaker 2: preamble of its constitution, quote, the working class and the

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Speaker 2: employing class have nothing in common. There can be no

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Speaker 2: peace as long as hunger and want are found among

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Speaker 2: the millions of working people, and the few who make

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Speaker 2: up the employing class have all the good things in life.

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Speaker 2: Between these two classes, a struggle must go on until

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Speaker 2: the workers of the world organize as a class, take

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Speaker 2: possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system,

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Speaker 2: and live in harmony with the earth. You know, I'm

395
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Speaker 2: in my head, I like go with like owning class

396
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Speaker 2: rather than employeing class, right because like middle management's not

397
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Speaker 2: my issue. They're working for a living. If you make

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Speaker 2: your money by working, That's what I'm looking for as

399
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Speaker 2: compared to making your money by owning shit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you work for a living is like really

401
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Speaker 3: the fundamental question that I think divides people Like I'm

402
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 3: sure Elon Musk probably says he works for a living,

403
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Speaker 3: but like, you know, like just because you go into

404
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 3: a place and do stuff like that's not why you

405
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Speaker 3: have money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. The IWW is formed nineteen oh five by

407
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Speaker 2: a collection of socialist anarchists and Marxists who are all

408
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Speaker 2: fed up with the racist, sexist, and gradualist labor organizing

409
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Speaker 2: that was going on around them. Among its founders were

410
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: veterans of the POD, Lucy Parsons, who is a black

411
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Speaker 2: and indigenous anarchist who kind of changed everything, and James Connolly,

412
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Speaker 2: another veteran of the POD, who is a Catholic socialist

413
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Speaker 2: who did at least as much as anyone in history

414
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Speaker 2: to free Ireland from England and therefore promote the dissolution

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Speaker 2: of the British Empire.

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Speaker 3: So, according to star Trek, this is the year the

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Speaker 3: Irish Unification of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: It's oh shit, that's true.

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Speaker 3: We got a few months left, but got to make

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Speaker 3: this happen.

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Speaker 2: Where's our next James Connolly or mass movement whatever?

422
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Speaker 3: I mean. I don't know how it's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: I just note that data isn't usually wrong about things,

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Speaker 3: So that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that every time there's like things eke

426
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Speaker 2: a little bit more towards I mean, Ireland is closer

427
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Speaker 2: to uniting now than it was twenty years ago. Absolutely,

428
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Speaker 2: and Brexit did a real number on it, right because

429
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Speaker 2: a lot of people were like, wait, what, No, we

430
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Speaker 2: like being European. What why do we need to do

431
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 2: what you fuckers want?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it made a lot of people like,

433
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Speaker 3: look at the options around them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The IWW fights for industrial unionism and I always

435
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: misunderstood this. I always was like industrial workers of the world.

436
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, it's like people who like listen

437
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Speaker 2: to throbbing gristle. No, like people who like I.

438
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 3: Should have known you were gonna make that joke, And

439
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 3: yet it caught me completely off guard.

440
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 2: That was perfect, excellent. No, Like I always assumed, it

441
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, it means people who like work in

442
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: industry where they are there's gears involved in like smelting.

443
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: You know, yeah you have a wrench.

444
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't have a wrench, are you an

445
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 2: industrial worker? And the answer is yes, by old timey standards.

446
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 3: Oh, I have.

447
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 2: You heard this? The difference between industrial unionism and trade unionism.

448
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing that everyone talks about at parties.

449
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 3: Tell me more, let's party.

450
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 2: Okay. So, prior to industrial unionism, unions would be like

451
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: the brakeman's union, and that is separate than the conductor's union,

452
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: and that's separate than the like schmoe who lays the

453
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,239
Speaker 2: tracks union. Right, hmm, okay. Industrial unionism is instead of

454
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 2: organizing by trade, you organized by industry. Oh so now

455
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: it's like rail workers.

456
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: Union, right, one big union as it.

457
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: Were, because one of the primary tools of the bosses

458
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: is to privilege certain classes of workers over other classes, right,

459
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: And so then the conductors will be like, I got mine,

460
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: fuck you schmoe who lays the track union, because if you're.

461
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 3: Driving a train, you really want to piss off the

462
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 3: guy laying the track.

463
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, fair enough. But you know, it's like when

464
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: you tangle power in front of people, people usually fall

465
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 2: for it.

466
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: People fall for it every goddamn time. It's just very

467
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 3: disappointing and stupid when they do.

468
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So the IWW fights for industrial unionism and

469
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: they also fight for anti racist and anti sexist unionism

470
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: for the exact same reason. It is both a moral imperative,

471
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: but it's also a strategic one. You do not want

472
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: to give fault lines to your enemy. I've been talking

473
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: about the IWW on the show for years. So guess

474
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: what I did today, Miriam.

475
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: In the IWW.

476
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: I did. I joined the IWW today. Yay. There's a

477
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 2: freelance journalist union as part of the IWW.

478
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, you're a wobbley.

479
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: I know.

480
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: Love that for you.

481
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, they haven't sent me the welcome pack yet, but

482
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: they took my money. I'm not actually complaining about this.

483
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: Step one. Yeah.

484
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: Literally, the reason I never joined the union is that

485
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: I like, don't particularly like need to. I don't like

486
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm fine, you know. And then I was like, oh right.

487
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: The whole point of unions is to not just look

488
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: for what's good for you, but to you know, yeah,

489
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: try and create something. Hell yeah, so you, dear listener

490
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: can join the IWW.

491
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: Two.

492
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: It excels at organizing and fields that traditional unions won't touch,

493
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: such as freelancers, prisoners, and sex workers. But there are

494
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: wobblies organizing in every industry.

495
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: They've been doing some good work on organizing Starbucks employees

496
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 3: right most recently.

497
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: I think, so I don't pay attention to things that

498
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: happened in the twenty first century.

499
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good point.

500
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to sho the modern WW. They actually do

501
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: a lot of good work.

502
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're great.

503
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: But I read more about the IWW from one hundred

504
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: years ago.

505
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: You know, well in one hundred years check back. Let

506
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: me know how the IWW's done with Starbucks workers.

507
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: I will once you finally let me convince you to

508
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: make you a vampire. Two the sun is. You don't

509
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: need it. You'll be fine.

510
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: I really really don't like working the night shift.

511
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: I know, but you'll get used to it. Just take

512
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: some cognitive behavioral therapy to adjust to the changes.

513
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: All right, I'm on the fence. I'll get back to.

514
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: You, Okay, Okay. So the IWW sets up in nineteen

515
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: oh five and they hit the ground running. They've been

516
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: on the show a bunch of times because they did

517
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: a bunch of cool shit. There was the militant free

518
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: speech fights on the West Coast, especially in Spokane, Washington,

519
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: where a bunch of hoboes showed up and like insisted

520
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: on the right to organize and went to prison in

521
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: mass and it was beautiful and wild. We also talked

522
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: about the wobblies who crossed the border to join in

523
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: the anarchist revolution in Mexico with rifles. They were in

524
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: conflict not just with the bosses and the government, but

525
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: also the white supremacist organizing that call itself Unionism, including

526
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: at the docks. So Ben Fletcher we know about him

527
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: because he's a wobbling as far as we can tell,

528
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: he gets political in nineteen ten he joins two organizations.

529
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 2: He joins the IWW Local twenty seven, which is sort

530
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: of the catch all wobbly union that was Wobbly Union,

531
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: Tall Local, whatever the fuck that was in Philly at

532
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: the time. He also joined the Socialist Party. The IWW

533
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: is not an electoral organization and it doesn't fuck around

534
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: with party politics. But there's also like you're allowed to

535
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: do a different organization and be you know, you can

536
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: sure you can cross class that's a D and D reference,

537
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: not a classes of capitalism thing. Also, I got it wrong.

538
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: It's a multi it's called multi classing and D and D.

539
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry everyone. A lot of

540
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: Wobblis started off in the Socialist Party and a lot

541
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: of Wobbley's left Socialist Party. Not all of them did.

542
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: Some people went the other way. Some people started in

543
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: both and left the wobblies and joined the Socialists.

544
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 4: Whatever.

545
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: The Socialist Party was better than average at race politics

546
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: in the US, and this is not saying much. W. E.

547
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 2: Du Bois, for example, left the Socialist Party after two

548
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: years because he was sick of all the racism within it. Also,

549
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: the Socialist Party was far more middle class, just like

550
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: literally in terms of who was in it. Some folks

551
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: called the IWW socialism with its working clothes on.

552
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: Ooh, I like that.

553
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: I know, it's such a good zing too, Like, oh,

554
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: you want to put on overalls and get some shit done.

555
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, like some socialism that's actually working. I am working

556
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 3: in both senses of the term.

557
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: Uh huh. The two groups soon started to drift apart.

558
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: The IWW was fine with sabotage. The Socialist Party was

559
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: not fine with sabotage. The Socialist Party was concerned first

560
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: and foremost with electoral politics. The IWW's line on it, well,

561
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: they kind of didn't have an official party line, but

562
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: Ben for example, put it in nineteen twenty quote, well,

563
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: I do not countenance against the working class striking at

564
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: the ballot box. I am firmly convinced that first and foremost,

565
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: the historical mission of labor is to organize as a

566
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 2: class industrially, which is to say, voting is fine, it's

567
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: not where change comes from. Right, we could learn a

568
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: lesson from Ben Fletcher.

569
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, every few years, I guess every four years round

570
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: about this time, there's just like the endless discourse around

571
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: should should an anarchist vote? Should an anarchist not vote?

572
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: And it's like the most boring conversation and the most

573
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: pointless one, because the issue isn't whether anarchists do or

574
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: do not vote. The issue is what they do in

575
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: addition to voting or not voting.

576
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: Right, yep, I firmly believe that electoral politics is not

577
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: the way to make change. That does not, from my

578
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: point of view, mean that electoral politics don't matter and

579
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: don't impact the world like it seems an ahistorical perspective

580
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: to take. And so it's just not where change comes from.

581
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: Sometimes change for the worst things would get worse than

582
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: the ballot box. That happens a lot. Oh yeah, So

583
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: Ben Fletcher is in the IWW and right away he's

584
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: a speaker and an organizer, but there's scant documentation about

585
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: what he's up to and that's probably because he was

586
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: probably a sault.

587
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: Oh cool, that's like the coolest thing you can be.

588
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: I know, it's a little like it's funny because I'm

589
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: very into being honest about shit, and there's like a

590
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: little bit of like sketchiness with salts. But like the

591
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: idea of assault is that you go get a job

592
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: to organize it, and you're like, oh, hello, I'm just

593
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: here because I needed a job, and oh wow, you

594
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: don't seem to have a union. I do have some cards,

595
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: would you like some information?

596
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: I think it's like absolutely the coolest thing, and I

597
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: would suck at it so bad.

598
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

599
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: I would be like at the job interview like, hello,

600
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: I'm here to be exploited. Y yes, I enjoy being

601
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: exploited and will not say that we are being exploited

602
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: to anybody else here. I'm sure they love their job,

603
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: thank you.

604
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: You know.

605
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: I would.

606
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: I would just suck at it.

607
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: I would love to sell my precious hours that I

608
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: have on this planet for as little as possible, please, just.

609
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: Like just like at the orientation meeting and you're like, sneezing,

610
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: organize that?

611
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: What?

612
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, so that's probably what he's doing, because we

613
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: know there's a bunch of other places he's popping up

614
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: in documentation, but not at the place where the strike

615
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: is about to kick off.

616
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: Like always six months before the strike kicks off. Well okay,

617
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: so it's like a different place. Like we just don't

618
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: know whether or not he worked at the docks. I mean,

619
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 4: we know eventually works at the docks, right, okay, and

620
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: we suspect he primarily worked at the docks, but.

621
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: He's not in a lot of that. He's not being like, hello,

622
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm Ben Fletcher, and I would like to say, you

623
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: know whatever. But he's speaking at rallies. He's the secretary

624
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: of the local of Local twenty seven, which is not

625
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: the dock workers union, it's the catchall union. And he's

626
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: going to the IWW national convention in Chicago. So he

627
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: is like doing the thing.

628
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very involved.

629
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So the Wabbles start specifically as an anti

630
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: racist and anti sexist union, right, there are not a

631
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: lot of black wobbleys at first. The interracial nature of

632
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: the union has been more proven out West, where there

633
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: are Chinese and Mexican wobblies of plenty. I think that

634
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: Fletcher was one of two men at the nineteen twelve

635
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: convention in Chicago. This doesn't mean there's only two black Wobblis.

636
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: It means that two locals had the representatives that they

637
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: sent be black.

638
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: I mean, that's still a very very low number.

639
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: It is absolutely Ben's going to change that, or maybe

640
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: Philly's going to change it, depending on how you want

641
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: to you want to say, the Wobblies of all races

642
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: were working hard to organize black workers. They wrote articles

643
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: that hold up today about how white employers would play

644
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: white and black workers off of each other in order

645
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: to build white solidarity instead of class solidarity. Right, they

646
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: knew what was happening. They're around for the creation of whiteness.

647
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: I mean, whiteness has been around for a long time,

648
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: but they're around to watch it expand you know.

649
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they it was happening right in front of them.

650
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and antagonistically against their organizing and against many of

651
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: the individuals within their movement, you know.

652
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: And this is like also, this is the era when

653
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 3: like bosses are like dudes with like cigars and gold

654
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: diamond studied watch chains who like publicly say things like, well,

655
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: what we have to do is get all the white

656
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 3: workers to turn against the black workers. Wahahahaha, Like they're

657
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: they're not subtle villains, these guys.

658
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not subtle. Yeah, but you know it is

659
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: subtle the insistent, constant stream of advertising that shapes our

660
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: perspective about what is possible, this stream of advertising. And

661
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: we're back and I'm always wondering whether I still have

662
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: a job. So have you.

663
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: Gotten calls from advertisers before? Have you gotten complaints?

664
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: Not a once on this or any show?

665
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, then you're killing it and they love what you're doing.

666
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they know it just doesn't matter, or they

667
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: don't listen and just keep sending money.

668
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: Ideal.

669
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, either way, a win is a win.

670
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: Yep. So soon the IWW starts organizing on the docks.

671
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: The life of a longshoreman at the turn of the

672
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: century was this will be shocking to you, Miriam, not great. Yeah,

673
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: it was not a really good job.

674
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: I mean, if I can speak personally as somebody with

675
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: experience in the maritime industry, still the worst injuries that

676
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 3: I've ever seen a person get on the job was

677
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: a dock worker. Like it's a rough job today, still.

678
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: Makes sense to me and I am very glad that

679
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: it is a primarily unionized job in the US, because

680
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: then theoretically, at least if someone gets injured on the job,

681
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 2: they at least get like some pay for it. I hope,

682
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 2: that's my hope. I haven't paid attention.

683
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: You're you know, you're operating incredibly heavy machinery, often over

684
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: or adjacent to water. Like there's everything, like stuff is

685
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 3: under incredible amounts of strain. It's just like it's incredibly

686
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: dangerous and like, yeah, and that's in an era that

687
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 3: like has safety regulations and yeah, you know, people paying

688
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: attention to that stuff ostensibly.

689
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this in about fifteen years,

690
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 2: it's more like what you're dealing with now than what

691
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: we were dealing with while we recorded this, because we

692
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: still have some safety regulations. Okay, So their jobs involved

693
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 2: a bit of job in security. They would have long

694
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: days of unemployment followed by endless twelve hour shifts. Sometimes

695
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: they had twenty four hour shifts.

696
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: Oh, everyone loves those.

697
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes they had thirty six hour shifts. Oh oh no,

698
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how people got hurt.

699
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, what could go wrong when a sleep deprived person

700
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 3: is handling things that weigh more than a car, like.

701
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's fine.

702
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you probably don't start to hallucinate until hour thirty seven, right.

703
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to remember I have hallucinated from lack

704
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 2: of sleep before. It was right around the thirty six

705
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 2: hour mark. I think, Yeah, I.

706
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,959
Speaker 3: Have also hallucinated from lack of sleep, and I don't

707
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 3: remember what hour it was because I was a little

708
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: disoriented by lack of sleep at the time. Yeah, but

709
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have trusted myself to operate heavy machinery, I

710
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: tell you what.

711
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 2: No, but I was running security on a social space

712
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: surrounded by police. That's why I wasn't sleep is that

713
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: it makes sense everyone else is sleeping elsewhere, and I

714
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: was like a squatter, and so I was like, I'm

715
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: used to getting woken up by cops. I'll sleep in

716
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: the space that's under siege by the police. It's fine.

717
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 2: And by sleep, I mean stay up all night. Anyway,

718
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: Being twenty was fun. So dock workers have no permanent contracts,

719
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: not even month to month. They are working shift to shift.

720
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: You are told to stand around the docks and wait

721
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: unpaid for when ships arrive, and then they start paying you. Jesus,

722
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: there's three shifts per day. You basically like show up

723
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: and try to get hired. Each day at seven am,

724
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: there's like a hiring at seven am, one pm, and

725
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 2: seven pm. And in Philly at this point they're not unionized.

726
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: Half of Philly's longshoremen were black, so it wasn't a

727
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: great fit for the ILA. Most ILA unions were whites only,

728
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: while those like in New Orleans that had to allow

729
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: black workers because otherwise it wouldn't have worked. They kept

730
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: black people segregated and like you know, second class workers.

731
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 2: One day in nineteen thirteen, the Philly dock workers had

732
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: decided they'd had enough. How much of this was pure

733
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: spontaneous revolt and how much of it was the result

734
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: of agitation of Ben and other people like him. We

735
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: will likely never know exactly how the strike began, Like

736
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: the first day of it. I'm having trouble sorting out.

737
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: Here's the most likely version that I can piece together.

738
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: Dockers weren't organized yet, not formally, but they were agitated,

739
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: whether entirely organically or otherwise. Soon enough, in May nineteen thirteen,

740
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: they wanted to strike. On May fourteenth, they put down

741
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: their cargo hooks and walked off the job. Hell yeah, yeah,

742
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: I'm excited for them. I know, fifteen hundred of them

743
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 2: start Within hours, they were talking about how they should

744
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: organize soon enough they have all about four there's about

745
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: four thousand dock workers for most of time we're going

746
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: to be talking about I think it peaks at six

747
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: thousand or so in about ten years or we're talking.

748
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 2: And as soon as they're talking about organizing, both the

749
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: ILA and the IWW are like, all right, vote for us,

750
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: we'll organize it.

751
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: Is the ILA like, vote for us, we'll represent like

752
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: half of you. Is that like their selling point?

753
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: Their selling point is literally, we brought you free booze, compelling,

754
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: and we will pay salaries to branch officers.

755
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: White supremacy and free booze.

756
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, which has worked. And if it had been a

757
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: majority white place, you know, it would have worked.

758
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

759
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: And they were willing to organize the black workers just

760
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 2: it would have been segregated.

761
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So they were offering a deal, but a shitty

762
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 3: deal yes to black workers.

763
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: The IWW's promise was radical equality, that they all fellow workers,

764
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 2: men and women. There's no women dockers, but there's women

765
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: in the IWW black and white would advance towards a

766
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: world without wage labor. The ILA would have formed segregated unions,

767
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 2: leaving black workers and second class members. So the dockers

768
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: formed the Industrial Workers of the World Local number eight.

769
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I'm so proud of them for not being

770
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 3: swayed by the free booze. That's I know. I'm so

771
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: glad they were better than that.

772
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: I know, better than how the Simpsons would have done it.

773
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: You know, you just I mean, you just know that

774
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: that has to have worked a bunch of times.

775
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're probably like, oh, just do what we

776
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: always do. What could go run? I keep saying ILA

777
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: and ILU, and I don't remember which one it is,

778
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: and I put it in the script both ways. And

779
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: I'm terribly sorry, old racist union, but we're gonna get

780
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 2: your name wrong. You don't exist anymore.

781
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: Like we could just say, like ILS for international long

782
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 3: short shitheads, like we don't care, we don't like them.

783
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: Ilkkk. Yeah. So the workers went on strike and they

784
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: did it fucking right. The most privileged workers, the deep

785
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: sea dockers, they got paid a little better, they like,

786
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: got treated a little better. The these are the people

787
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 2: who started the strike, the first people who walked off

788
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 2: the job, and when they did, they said, the demands

789
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: that we're making are for everyone. Everyone will be treated

790
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: as well as we are going to be treated at

791
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: the end of the strike, not just how good we

792
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: have it. Now, we're going to get it better, and

793
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 2: everyone else is also going to get it better equal

794
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: to us.

795
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: Nice, we're bringing everybody with us.

796
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: Because right away the owners were like, our understand, we

797
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: would have just if it had been a normal strike,

798
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: we would have just paid off the deep sea doggers

799
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 2: and it would have ended.

800
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 3: You know, It's like these guys have seen the playbook.

801
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: They know what the strategy is.

802
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. They demanded thirty five cents an hour, which works

803
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 2: out to roughly like eighteen thousand dollars a year in

804
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: modern money.

805
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that still sucks.

806
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Oh, Like they're basically asking for the poverty line, you know.

807
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like, oh, we would like to do this

808
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: backbreaking and dangerous job for like shit money. And I

809
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: guess at this point we're getting half shit money, Like damn.

810
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. And they want a radical reduction in their hours.

811
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 2: They only want to work ten hours a day. They

812
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: want night work, paid time and a half. They want

813
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: double pay on Sundays and holidays, and they want recognition

814
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 2: of the union.

815
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: That is like tragically reasonable demands.

816
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: I know, I know. Decisions were made democratically by the

817
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: rank and file workers. The IWW organizers who showed up

818
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: didn't tell people what to do, They just helped facilitate it.

819
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: The strike committee of fifteen people was elected, with at

820
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: least one representative from each nationality, so that all languages

821
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: were represented. Oh that rules, Yeah, no, I like fucking

822
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: did it right. The day they organized a one hundred

823
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: ships were prevented from loading or unloading.

824
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: And what's cool about a dock workers strike is that

825
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: those ships are being loaded and unloaded, a lot of

826
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: them with perishable goods.

827
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's gonna come up, yeah, okay, yeah.

828
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 3: And like it's one of those like there are some

829
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: types of strike where like if you're at a factory

830
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: or whatever and you're like, we're not going to make

831
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 3: the objects. Yeah, then it's like okay, well then those

832
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 3: won't be made for a while, you know. But if

833
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 3: you're a farm worker or like a transport worker, stuff

834
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 3: just keeps piling up and chaos ensues and it fucking rules.

835
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fucking good point. The next day, the

836
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: bosses attack physically. One wobbly organizer, a guy named Mkelvey,

837
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: was beaten unconscious and then jailed for two months. And

838
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: only three years earlier, he'd been involved in the Spokane

839
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: free speech fight and been prisoned in that that we

840
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: talked about the show a while ago. Oh wow, we'd

841
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: like seeing people die in the jails out there while

842
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 2: he was fighting, you know. Yeah, the boss has used

843
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: every dirty trick they could. The owners of the various

844
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: shipping and docking companies. There's a thing that happens time

845
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 2: and time again, where like capitalism pretends to be in competition,

846
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I'm a company in your company, so

847
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: we hate each other, you know, Like, no they have

848
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: class solidarity, why don't we is basically what's happening, right, Yeah,

849
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: the rich the owners of the various companies united to

850
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: form at Owners Union of sorts.

851
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 3: Wow, I hate that.

852
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. The other dirty trick they would always use they

853
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: hired black strike breakers from Baltimore. And to be clear,

854
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: this is on white supremacist labor organizing that this works

855
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: so well, right, Like if they weren't white supremacist organizations.

856
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: It would not work to hire black which is why

857
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't work this time. Yay, they hire pinkertons to

858
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: like infiltrate and agent provoctur and shit, there's gun battles

859
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: with the strikers and they re route their ships so

860
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: they like send the ships to Baltimore and New York.

861
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: And Ben Fletcher actually goes down to Baltimore to help

862
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: convince dockers there not to touch hot cargo.

863
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 3: Awesome.

864
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the ISLA is trying to snipe workers into its

865
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: own ranks, but had no success at that. And when

866
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: I say that we have won all the rights we

867
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: have in this country by fighting, I mean with violence.

868
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: A week into the strike, on May twenty first, six

869
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 2: hundred strikers and their supporters fought off seventy five scabs

870
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: by the police. Hundreds of women were throwing bricks at cops,

871
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: most likely the family members of the all Mail workforce.

872
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, that's a supportive family thing to do. I know,

873
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 3: somebody is trying to interfere with a member of your

874
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 3: famili's you know, yeah, way of making a living, Like, yeah,

875
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 3: you might need to throw bricks at that person.

876
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then on May twenty eighth, solid already cracked

877
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: among the bosses. Ah, the companies that transported perishable goods

878
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: were the first to crack. I bet yeah, And once

879
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 2: the owning class was splintered, the rest of the companies

880
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: fell to The strike was one in two weeks.

881
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, which is probably about as long as it

882
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: takes for the ship full of whatever it was they

883
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: were trying to ship to start to smell terrible.

884
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. The pace stayed at thirty cents an hour

885
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 2: for the but I think that's a raise for most

886
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: of the workers and the rest of their demands, which

887
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 2: were actually more important to and then even their base rate.

888
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: The overtime, the recognition of union's anti discrimination, all that shit,

889
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: all that was one. The overtime was particularly important, of course,

890
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: because people were working twenty four and thirty six hour shifts. Yeah.

891
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: The joke I wrote in here is what are they doctors?

892
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: I don't want a sleepy doctor.

893
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: I mean I don't want a sleepy nurse either. I

894
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 3: don't want anybody sleepy. I don't want a sleepy guy

895
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: making a sandwich. Like, we should all be at our

896
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 3: best when we do things.

897
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, dreamer is a good job for sleepy. But actually

898
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to work a twenty four hour shift sleeping.

899
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: Mm hm.

900
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: The other time I want to sleepy guys. When it's

901
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, a puppy, a puppy's tired, he can be

902
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: a sleepy guy.

903
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my dog's job is mostly I

904
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: mean he does a few part time things, but like

905
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: mostly couch snuggles.

906
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: Who he's a sleepy guy.

907
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: He's a sleepy guy. He does he crushes it, you know.

908
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: Great job.

909
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the strikes, the union forms, and local aid

910
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: does not waste any time. In IWW fashion, they don't

911
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: sign contracts with employers because they don't want to give

912
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: up any right to strike and things like that. Right,

913
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: they're like, instead of being like, hey, we won't strike,

914
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: into our contracts up, they're like, now you treat us

915
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 2: like shit, we're gonna strike. What the fuck do you want?

916
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: And their contracts are oral and renewed yearly. Anytime the

917
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: bosses would treat them like shit, the doctors would hoist

918
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: the goods up off the ship and then walk away.

919
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 3: Hell yes, yeah, oh my god, I love that. Yeah,

920
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: just leave them in suspense there, uh huh oh literally

921
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 3: because this suspended.

922
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And the Wobblies did a lot more than

923
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: just interrupt work. They planned strategically. They fought to maintain

924
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 2: unity between different races of workers, and they organize cultural

925
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: events for the workers, doing that thing that organized workers

926
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: have done so well in history, which is making sure

927
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: that the working class has as much of an opportunity

928
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: for education and culture as the owning class. As always

929
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: at the time, the racial tension that they were dealing

930
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: with was a three way thing. There were white people

931
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 2: who were Protestants, then there were black people, and then

932
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 2: there were the Catholics in the Slavs, who are neither

933
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: white nor black. Local eight worked hard to keep them

934
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: all united by having like family picnics and shit. Right,

935
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: everyone comes, everyone gets to know each other, All the

936
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 2: languages of different people are there and hanging out.

937
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

938
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: By August nineteen thirteen, they supported the tugboat sailors in

939
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 2: a strike for fifteen dollars a week, ten hour days,

940
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: six days a week. Nice, So twenty five cents an

941
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: hour is what they thought had to fight for what

942
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: radical demands.

943
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 3: Tugboat workers are also some of the most hardcore people

944
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 3: you will ever meet.

945
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: I believe it. This strike was successful and soon the

946
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: sailors were in Local eight. By November they also had

947
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: the docks firefighters in the union. Nice yeah. Local eight

948
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: solved the hiring problem and got DOC workers monthly contracts

949
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: instead of daily ones, and they reversed the power dynamics

950
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: of how hiring worked before. If you're a docker, you

951
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 2: had to line up to get hired every day, and

952
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: the system is called the shape up, and all the

953
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 2: workers are basically in competition with each other. It's like

954
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: you know, schoolroom recess soccer. Now the employers have to

955
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: come to the union hall, show up and be like, hey,

956
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,479
Speaker 2: I need one hundred and twenty people today, and only

957
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: workers with an iwwpen on their clothes could work. Most

958
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: of the docks. There was like one or two on

959
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: unionized docks on the docks. Peer, I don't know how

960
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: the terminology works. The union hall was open every day

961
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: of the week and they offered free classes on all

962
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 2: sorts of topics for the workers and all sorts of languages.

963
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: Any important meetings they had were live translated or I

964
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: guess interpreted as the word for that into Polish, Lithuanian, Spanish,

965
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: and Italian. The Spanish, apparently was the tugboat sailors. Interesting,

966
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: whenever radicals from other countries passed through the port, they

967
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: were invited to come talk. So the working class doc

968
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: workers were like worldly and abreast of the politics of

969
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: the world because like, here's an Argentinian socialist talking about

970
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 2: what's going on there? Yeah, and by general agreement. So

971
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: leadership is very constantly rotated in the wilds at least

972
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: this time period. The president of the union was always

973
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: black and the secretary was always white, and that was

974
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: like a conscious choice that they made. Cool about fifty

975
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: two percent I think of the workers are black in

976
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: this union. On the first anniversary of the union, they

977
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: decided to throw themselves a party, and the bosses were like, no,

978
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 2: you got to come to work, And they were like, no, i'

979
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: is just not going to come to work. What are

980
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: you going to do?

981
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 3: I think they've established pretty well that the bosses cannot

982
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 3: make them come to work if they don't want to.

983
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty five hundred of the workers decided to go

984
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: to the party instead.

985
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: Good call.

986
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: None of them got fired. They marched through Philly with

987
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: three bands in tow and now, like the content of

988
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 2: their chance, but I can't work it out rhythmically. One

989
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: of their chants was no creed, no color can borrow

990
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: you from membership.

991
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:09,919
Speaker 3: Oh yep.

992
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: No.

993
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 3: It was doing well for the first couple syllables there

994
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 3: and then it really went off the rails.

995
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: Yep. The other motto is a chance, was the classic.

996
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: An injury to one is an injury to all, and

997
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 2: that one that one could probably work.

998
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: That one works, yeah, yeah, not if you mess with us,

999
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 3: we'll turn your goods into giant pinatas hanging over the ocean.

1000
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: Maybe it works really well in another language, you know,

1001
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: like could have been the Italian chant. Yeah, and there

1002
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 2: would be like speeches given, which you know, it's like

1003
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: now like when you go to a thing and their

1004
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: speech is at it, you're like, oh god, damn it.

1005
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 3: Right, Oh I tune out. Unfortunately I'm the worst.

1006
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 2: But it's a world without the internet and TV.

1007
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good point.

1008
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 2: Everyone's used to listening to people give talks as that's

1009
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: how bad their entertainment were. Wait we podcast totally listening

1010
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 2: to people was great. Everyone should do oh wit, well.

1011
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 3: This, you know, I'm guessing also there are people who

1012
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: were giving speeches that those are good at it and

1013
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: not always. Is it the case that when you go

1014
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: to a rally, Yeah, the people who will get up

1015
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: to give a speech are good at that. Often they are,

1016
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: but not always.

1017
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: I actually think that that's an important thing because like

1018
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: old fashioned speech, like soapboxers, and that's how Ben Fletcher

1019
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: gets a start, right as soapboxing. You're a stand up comic, Yeah,

1020
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 2: like your job is to keep the audience paying attention

1021
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: and laughing at the bosses. And like I only have

1022
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: a few of Ben Fletcher's jokes in here. It'll be

1023
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: mostly in the second half, but they're good, you know.

1024
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 2: So speeches were probably good. And they also played baseball

1025
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: and they also danced. They had three bands with them.

1026
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 3: Baseball's terrible, but the rest of that sounds great, I know.

1027
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: But it's like Philly in America in the like old

1028
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: America times. Like I'm sure everyone likes it. They probably

1029
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: have like striped outfits and.

1030
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: Those baseball caps with little like little tiny.

1031
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: Brim Yeah, and they're like slow pace of it somehow

1032
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: works for them. It's hard to overstate how big of

1033
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: a deal the fact that they weren't segregated was like

1034
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where you like look back

1035
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, yeah, they hit the bare minimum, right,

1036
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: because that is kind of the bare minimum we ask

1037
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: for people in history, at least white people, is to

1038
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: like not be segregated. Right, This is a really fucking

1039
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: big deal. This scares people. Philly is one of the

1040
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: more segregated cities in the country, according to wb du Boys.

1041
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: And it's nineteen fourteen in the US. This is a

1042
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: segregated time.

1043
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1044
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: Most every year, for the nine years of the union's heyday,

1045
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: they went on strike to celebrate their birthday.

1046
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 3: That's great, you know what that we should bring back,

1047
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 3: just like annual strikes because like, no, we're not striking

1048
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 3: for anything, we're just reminding you that we can.

1049
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's still the case, but the

1050
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 2: trash union in Amsterdam would strike. I think every year.

1051
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 2: They'd like basically be like no, there's just not gonna

1052
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: be any trash pick up next week, and the city

1053
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: of Amsterdam fills with garbage, Like the streets are just

1054
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 2: full of garbage, and it works. Everyone's like, ah, yeah,

1055
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: we should probably treat the trash workers pretty good.

1056
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: Huh, yeah, we sure do. Suddenly appreciate the work you

1057
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: guys put in.

1058
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they go on strike to celebrate their birthday

1059
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: almost every year. There's I feel like I've read both

1060
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 2: ways about whether or not during the war they went

1061
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: on strike every year of the war or just one

1062
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 2: year of Oh, the US was only involved in the

1063
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 2: war for one year, that's why. Yeah, I'm smart. So

1064
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: I used to reading about European countries in World War

1065
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: One that I'm like, World War One was many years, But.

1066
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: Weren't strikes illegal during World War One? How did they

1067
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 3: get did they?

1068
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: Oh, we'll get to that, Okay. Meanwhile, Ben Fletcher and

1069
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: the other organizers go around the Eastern Seaboard and they're

1070
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: trying to organize the dock workers there into the IWW.

1071
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: They never managed to unseat the ILA, though they managed

1072
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: to sign up hundreds of workers, mostly black. Since the

1073
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: Baltimore ILA was a white supremacist organization, was pretty easy

1074
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: to get black workers to sign up for the union.

1075
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: That'll let them come, Yeah, I would imagine.

1076
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: So Ben was down in Norfolk, Virginia, which I keep

1077
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: wanting to call like Nuffolk or something. I don't know,

1078
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: it just looks so British. Anyway, when he ran a

1079
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: foul of the other enemy of black organizers, racist white mobs,

1080
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: a black man and a labor organizer both this is

1081
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: too much for sensitive white Southern racists. He was giving

1082
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 2: a speech in an open air meeting that some racists

1083
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: came to heckel A Matt and they asked him, quote,

1084
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: do you approve of intermarriage or sexual intercourse between whites

1085
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 2: and blacks? Heavin enward marry a white woman. Fletcher responded,

1086
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: I don't see anyone as black as I am, but

1087
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: we all damn no. Well the reason, oh damn yeah,

1088
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: because he's he's not light skinned, right, yeah, and so

1089
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: he's the racists don't like hearing that miscegenation had been

1090
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: the norm consentially or otherwise for hundreds of years.

1091
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, he basically said. Instead of answering whether he approved

1092
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 3: of it, he said, well, it sure looks like some

1093
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 3: of your dad's approved of it.

1094
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1095
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 3: Wow.

1096
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 2: So they decided to lynch him. He does not get lynched,

1097
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 2: And all I know is he has one sentence about this.

1098
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: This is what the historical record seems to have on it.

1099
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: He said, quote oh not quote paraphrase. His friend smuggled

1100
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: him onto a ship bound for Boston. Great.

1101
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 3: I like that he devoted more time to telling us

1102
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 3: about his good z sick line. Yeah that like he was, like,

1103
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: I had a really good singer. You're gonna hear it

1104
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 3: in its entirety. And then yeah, I got to Boston.

1105
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah fucked off. Yeah I left. Yeah. So by March

1106
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 2: nineteen seventeen, he's living up in Boston doing his organizing. There,

1107
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: he starts working in a soap factory and he gets

1108
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 2: married to a white widow named Carrie Dano Bartlett from

1109
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 2: New York City.

1110
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 3: Working in the soap factory is handy for a soapbox speaker.

1111
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, access to boxes.

1112
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 3: He has seized control of the means of production.

1113
00:55:55,520 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: Oh that's true. That's why he did it. Uh, his

1114
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 2: personal life, doesn't. I have hints of his personal life

1115
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 2: here and there, but not a lot about it.

1116
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 3: Wife's guy of history.

1117
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: Not bad to either of his wives. Oh, he does

1118
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: not stay. He's married to Carrie for about five years.

1119
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: His second wife happy with to the end of his days. Great,

1120
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: and he seemed to be also supportive of Carrie had

1121
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: a six year old daughter. They all lived together with

1122
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: his dad for a while in Baltimore. His married life however,

1123
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 2: did not start off super easy. He was only married

1124
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 2: two weeks when the law came after him because of

1125
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: the war. Right, And we'll talk about that on Wednesday.

1126
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 2: There's my cliffhanger, and Wednesday's so far away.

1127
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 3: I don't want to wait till Wednesday.

1128
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 2: Well you can wait like five minutes, Magpie.

1129
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: I personally think you need like a cliffhanger sound effect.

1130
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like an old trashy like TV like I

1131
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: don't even know what it'd be like.

1132
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, but it's just on my brain

1133
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: from the Creature in the Black Lagoon when the monster

1134
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: comes out and it's.

1135
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 3: Like baa yeah, absolutely, yeah, Daniel, like a scare cord.

1136
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 2: Daniel, what you got?

1137
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1138
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 2: It plays now? Okay, So you know anything you want

1139
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: plug here at the end of part one, or anything

1140
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: you want to say about our man Ben.

1141
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 3: I'm excited to see where this goes. I love him

1142
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 3: so far, and I like you, surprised that I hadn't

1143
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: heard all about this guy before. I know for plugs.

1144
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: As you mentioned, I'm podcasting over it live like the

1145
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: world is dying from strangers in a tangled wilderness. Check

1146
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 3: it out. Yeah, it's cool.

1147
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: You can also find me also on Love like the

1148
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: World Is Dying, published by Strangers and Tanglederness. It's another podcast.

1149
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: If you're like I don't here Margaret enough and you

1150
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 2: already listen to this and you also listen to Cools

1151
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: on Media Book Club, well, I'm one of three year

1152
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 2: four hosts of Love like Doorlstein, so I'm sometimes on it.

1153
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 3: And we got other podcasts over there.

1154
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: Too, That's true. If you like nerd stuff and hate cops,

1155
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: we have the Spectacle and if you like weird cultural think, God,

1156
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: how do I describe the podcast Rangers in the Tangled Wlderness?

1157
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: You think I know the elevator pitch for our podcast

1158
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: with our name in it. Who knows. But we're a

1159
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: collectively run publisher and we publish things, and every zne

1160
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: that we put out we put out also an audio format,

1161
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: so you can listen to all kinds of scenes of

1162
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: like poetry and fiction and theory and fun things also

1163
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: unlike those boring things like poetry and history and oh wait, hmmm, Sophia,

1164
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: you got anything.

1165
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: I mean, if you understood the part about whether people

1166
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 3: were paladins or whatever, then you should probably just come

1167
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: on over to Strangers in a tangled wilderness.

1168
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 2: It's true. Yeah, I think sovy.

1169
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. We at Coolcar Media have a new podcast. It

1170
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: is called Weird Little Guys and it is hosted by

1171
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: investigative journalist Molly Conger, who has been on this podcast

1172
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: and is at socialistog Mom on Twitter, which a lot

1173
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: of people know. Molly as and Mollie will take you

1174
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: beyond the headlines to examine some of the worst people

1175
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: on the planet, most of whom you've never heard of.

1176
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: These are the weird little guys trying to ruin life

1177
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: as we know it. And it's really good. I don't

1178
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: mean to brag, but it's really good. Mollie's so good.

1179
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: I'm so excited.

1180
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 3: This is actually the first time hearing about this, and

1181
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 3: this rules. I can't wait.

1182
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: You have Mollie's a delight.

1183
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1184
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: Weird Little Guys trailer August first, so it should be

1185
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 1: out already if you're listening on the day this drops,

1186
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: and then episodes weekly, not a limited run, but a

1187
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: continuous weekly show. Hell yeah until the wheels fall off.

1188
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: Hell yeah.

1189
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 3: Awesome.

1190
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 2: We we gotta go, but we'll see you all on Wednesday.

1191
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1192
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1193
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: visit our upsite folezonemedia dot com, or check us out

1194
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1195
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: your podcasts.