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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, EFFI bast

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, welcome to the Bachdell Cast.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, ready to party, Ready to sausage party?

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Speaker 2: Yes I am, because today is my shameless plugging day.

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Speaker 2: Today is the day where we are doing a movie

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Speaker 2: that is technically about hot dogs but is also I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know, uh, but we're celebrating the

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Speaker 2: release of Raw Dog, my first book. When you're hearing this,

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Speaker 2: it will be out. You should definitely go buy it

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Speaker 2: at your local bookstore. Don't know, Amazon, fuckery. Please I'll

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Speaker 2: accept the Barnes and Noble, but only if you're in

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Speaker 2: a difficult like only if you're not near an independent books,

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Speaker 2: which you probably are, So go get It's my book

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Speaker 2: about the history of hot dogs and a road trip

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Speaker 2: I took in twenty twenty one trying hot dogs across

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Speaker 2: the country. It is about leftist politics, it is about workers' rights,

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Speaker 2: it is about the history of like how American jingoism

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Speaker 2: is connected to the hot dog It's about following people

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Speaker 2: around in the Wienermobile. It's about falling in love with

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Speaker 2: Joey Chestnut. But also it's complicated and I don't really

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Speaker 2: fuck with him, but I do have a crush on him,

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Speaker 2: gross problematic fave Joey Chestnut and my king to Karo Kobyashi,

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Speaker 2: as well as all of the kind of twisted bizarre. Well,

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Speaker 2: this is actually maybe where it overlaps with Sausage Party,

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Speaker 2: which we're talking about today, which mercifully does not come

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Speaker 2: up in the book. I did not there, there is

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Speaker 2: no space, and I didn't want to know. I just

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Speaker 2: didn't want to. But in Professional hot Dog Eating, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of historical issues regarding racism and gender discrimination

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Speaker 2: within that sport. Yes, it's a sport. No, I will

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Speaker 2: not be taking questions or arguments about it. It is

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Speaker 2: a sport, and that is something that has in common

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Speaker 2: with the movie we're discussing today, So shameless plunge.

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Speaker 3: And racism and yes, all of those things, yes huh.

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Speaker 2: But one thing it doesn't have that Sausage Party does

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Speaker 2: is bad writing. It's a good book. I should buy it,

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Speaker 2: and I or if you're not in a position to

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Speaker 2: buy it. We'll link in this episode of different ways

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Speaker 2: to request that it be brought to your local library.

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Speaker 2: That's also a great way. There's also an audio book

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Speaker 2: that's narrated by me, but they're like, hey, podcaster getting

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Speaker 2: that booth and I did. And my audio engineer's name

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Speaker 2: was Tim, and he was a vegan, and he was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, oh gee whiz. We really learned from

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Speaker 2: each other that week. He's from New Zealand, kind of iconic,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, I can't do anyw Zealand accent. But

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Speaker 2: he was like, this country is so fucked and I

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Speaker 2: was like, that's right, Tim, that's right. And that's an

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Speaker 2: example of something that did not pass the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 2: Me and Tim shooting the shit. Yeah. Was it pleasant, yes,

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Speaker 2: of course, but did not pass.

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Speaker 3: And which what a wonderful transition to our show and

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Speaker 3: what it's about. So this is the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Derante.

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Speaker 2: My name is Jamie loftis author of Raw Dog Out Now.

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Speaker 3: And this is our show where we analyze movies through

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Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel It was a

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Speaker 3: weird way to say that using the Bechtel test simply

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Speaker 3: as a jumping off point to initiate a far larger

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Speaker 3: conversation about representation and such in FLIM. The Bechdel test

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Speaker 3: being a media metric sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test

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Speaker 3: that first appeared in Alison Bechdel Queer icon queer cartoonist

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Speaker 3: Alison Bechdel's comic Dykes to Watch out For. Originally intended

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Speaker 3: just as sort of like a one off joke, it

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Speaker 3: was a bit, but it has since been used as

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Speaker 3: this media metric. There are many versions of it. The

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Speaker 3: one that we use is this two characters of a

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Speaker 3: marginalized gender must have names. Those characters have to talk

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Speaker 3: to each other about something other than a man, and

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Speaker 3: we particularly enjoy it when it is a narratively meaningful

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Speaker 3: conversation and not just a hi, hot dog number one Hello.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also, I resent the aggressive gendering of the hot dog

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Speaker 2: expanded universe. Hot dogs are Look, they're beautiful. They don't

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Speaker 2: know gender, and this is I mean it, Katelyn, no love.

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Speaker 2: I love these damn things.

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Speaker 3: I love to eat hot dogs.

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Speaker 2: When they're ethically produced. I'm smiling, and they don't know gender.

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Speaker 2: They transcend gender and class. That's the whole point of

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Speaker 2: a hot dog there for everybody. Why according to this

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Speaker 2: movie that's rogan God, we'll talk about it. Got well,

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Speaker 2: actually I have a lot of hot dog gendering thoughts,

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Speaker 2: which we'll get around to. But yes, this movie, I mean,

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Speaker 2: for it's many flaws. It does pass the Bexel test,

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Speaker 2: not the way as I particularly like. Oh it's heinous,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, but that's why we talk about all the time.

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Speaker 2: It's a flawed metric. It was created as a bit.

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Speaker 2: But there's plenty to talk about. And boy, oh boy,

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Speaker 2: this movie came out in twenty sixteen, but it really

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Speaker 2: feels like it came out in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 2: It has like huge two thousand and four vibes. But

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Speaker 2: it was a I kind of forgot we were talking

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Speaker 2: about this earlier. I forgot that Sausage Party was apparently

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Speaker 2: a huge hit.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was like a box office smash hit. It

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Speaker 3: was for a while the highest grossing R rated movie

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Speaker 3: ever until it was really such a bummer. Oh sorry, okay,

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Speaker 3: I made some stuff up. It was the highest grossing

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Speaker 3: R rated animated film, not R rated film in general,

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Speaker 3: but which R rated animated film because it grossed one

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Speaker 3: hundred and forty one million dollars at the box office

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Speaker 3: against a budget of nineteen million dollars, which is a

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Speaker 3: low budget for an animated feature. And will go into

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Speaker 3: how that happened later. The budget on this movie is

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Speaker 3: low for.

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Speaker 2: A animated and then I have a lot of feelings

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Speaker 2: on animation labor. Yeah, well, sEH, we'll get to Animators

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Speaker 2: are treated so horribly and people across the spectrum in

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Speaker 2: terms of jobs in animation are just treated terribly. And

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Speaker 2: this also it also feels like it ties into conversations

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Speaker 2: that have gone on in the last couple of years

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Speaker 2: around effects workers in Marvel movies, where that's constantly been

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Speaker 2: like people working overtime and then not just being worked

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Speaker 2: to death. And you know, the whole ethos is like

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Speaker 2: you should be lucky to work on a Marvel movie,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, go fuck yourself. Yes, but yees, so

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Speaker 2: it was a pretty big hit and I'm realizing Kaitlyn. I,

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Speaker 2: first of all, I appreciate that you were willing to

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Speaker 2: do a hot dog themed movie to line up.

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Speaker 3: With Oh yeah, this was my idea.

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Speaker 2: Sorry hot Dog, which is which dog out?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: I will say I thought this was the only movie

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Speaker 2: about hot dogs, but shows what I fucking know because

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Speaker 2: my friend Mitch last night gave me a DVD for

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Speaker 2: something called hot Dog the Movie. Why that came out

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four. Well, I haven't read this anopsis yet, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I've had It's definitely share it. Well, of course I can.

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Speaker 2: Let me get the sticker off. Hold on, Okay, there's

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Speaker 2: a booklet inside. How we're gonna just read the beginning

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Speaker 2: good snowballs and powder bunnies, the sex tactic, slapstick slaloam

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Speaker 2: of hot Dog the movie? What hot Dogs the movie?

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Speaker 2: I'm not even following. I think it's a skiing movie

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Speaker 2: is Also what's gonna do? Is the whole thing appears

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Speaker 2: to take place at a Let's find out what Dog

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Speaker 2: the movie is. This is the supreme Bacchanalian Ski movie blowout,

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Speaker 2: toward which all previous Bacchanalian Ski movie blowouts has led,

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Speaker 2: and from which all subsequent Bachanalian Ski movie blowouts have

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Speaker 2: since proceeded. Backward, upside down and drunkenly spinning through the

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Speaker 2: air between snow capped jumping off points, hitting theaters in

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Speaker 2: early nineteen eighty four, at the ascending peak of post

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Speaker 2: Porky's teen sex comedy mania. Oh Boy, hot Dog's protagonists

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Speaker 2: may not have been in high school or college, but

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Speaker 2: the movie's ski lodge setting and r rated raunch landed

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Speaker 2: it squarely in the cannon of high eighties adolescent anarchy farces.

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Speaker 3: Let me just keep us So this is like a bias,

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Speaker 3: a biography of the movie more than a synopsis.

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Speaker 2: I'm under real this is a movie about skiing. Why

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Speaker 2: is it called hot Dog the movie? Wait? Hang on,

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Speaker 2: I'm getting pissed off. I'm getting pissed off. Let's google where? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when is when the hot dogs coming?

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Speaker 3: Are the skiers?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Are the wait?

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Speaker 2: It's about? The film stars Patrick Hawser as Harken Banks,

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Speaker 2: a young and ambitious freestyle skier from Bonners Ferry, Idaho,

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Speaker 2: who's determined to prove himself in the freestyle skiing competition

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Speaker 2: at Squaw Valley. Along the way, he teams with a

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Speaker 2: there's no hot dogs in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just about it's a teen sex comedy about

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Speaker 3: freestyle skiers.

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Speaker 2: Well, that has nothing to do with hot dogs, And

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Speaker 2: I'm pissed. Apparently this movie made it budget back eleven times.

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Speaker 2: Not that he has ever heard of it, and hopefully

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Speaker 2: that's what will happen to the movie we're discussing as

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Speaker 2: today as well, Sausage Party. Caitlin Doranday, what's her history

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Speaker 2: with this movie?

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Speaker 3: I did not see it in theaters, but I did

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Speaker 3: see it shortly after it came out, because there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of buzz about this movie. Not only was

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Speaker 3: it a box office hit, it was critically well received.

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Speaker 2: It has eighty two percent on Rotten Tomatoes, which is

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Speaker 2: unexplained that the male I remember being shocked by that

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Speaker 2: at the time too, because this was shortly before the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast began. Yeah, this came out the summer before

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Speaker 2: mm hm.

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Speaker 3: So I saw it sometime later in twenty sixteen, and

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Speaker 3: remember thinking, and this was before I was like, like

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Speaker 3: you said, this was before we started the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: So even though like representation was on my mind when

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Speaker 3: I was watching movies, you know, we didn't have quite

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Speaker 3: the nuanced takes that we do now.

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Speaker 2: But you don't need a nuanced view of cinema to

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Speaker 2: realize that.

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Speaker 3: I would say that this is one of the worst

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Speaker 3: movies I've ever seen from a storytelling point of view

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Speaker 3: and from a representation point of view, It's just abysmal

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Speaker 3: in every imaginable way.

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Speaker 2: It's a really And it's interesting to read back the

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Speaker 2: good reviews of this movie because there is sort of

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Speaker 2: a lot of like and I do think it has

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Speaker 2: to do with how beloved seth Rogen is by pop

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Speaker 2: culture and by the general culture in general, and general

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Speaker 2: culture in general, Jae come on, and I'm like, we're

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Speaker 2: not knocking Seth Rogen fans, Like I've enjoyed a lot

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Speaker 2: of Seth Rogen over the years, although I did used

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Speaker 2: to say I would deport them to Canada, which was

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Speaker 2: not nice of me, but no, I mean it's like

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Speaker 2: I've I've enjoyed a lot of Seth Rogen's work. This

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Speaker 2: is just really not I don't know. I felt a

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Speaker 2: sort of like in reading a lot of reviews, a

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Speaker 2: lot of bending over backwards to make this movie okay

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Speaker 2: because Seth Rogan made it and like all these beloved

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Speaker 2: comedians of this era made it. And I do wonder

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Speaker 2: what how this movie would be received if it came

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Speaker 2: out now. And also like reading about the ostensible like

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Speaker 2: intentions that the writers had, like where they were like,

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Speaker 2: it's this is something that we'll get into it but

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Speaker 2: it just like never ever, ever, ever, ever works when

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Speaker 2: someone's like, this movie is equal opportunity offensive, no one

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Speaker 2: is safe from my pen and it's just like, well,

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Speaker 2: that completely ignores any dynamics of like privilege or who

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Speaker 2: gets to make most movies, So that does not work.

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Speaker 2: And it's just like I was reading in the reviews

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Speaker 2: of this that I don't know, like the closest I

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Speaker 2: could say to something positive about this movie is that

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Speaker 2: it's attempting to say something about faith. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it successfully does. I understand that it's attempting to. But

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Speaker 2: everything else is just like presenting very broad stereotypes in

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Speaker 2: a way that is not presenting the I was not seeing.

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Speaker 2: The commentary that was implied in some of these reviews

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Speaker 2: is I'm like commenting on what exactly exactly what does

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Speaker 2: Bill Hayter playing a native character in the most broadly

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Speaker 2: offensive way possible on multiple levels? What does that comment anything?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the critical consensus on Rotten Tomatoes.

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Speaker 2: Is which, again, Rotten Tomatoes is like a shitty metric, but.

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Speaker 3: So people consult it like I go on Rotten Tomatoes

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Speaker 3: to be like should I see this movie?

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Speaker 2: I don't know sure?

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Speaker 3: But the critic consensus is Sausage Party is definitely offensive.

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Speaker 3: I agree with that, but backs up its enthusiastic profanity

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Speaker 3: with an impressively high laugh to gag Ratio. I do

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Speaker 3: not agree with that because I did not laugh fucking once.

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Speaker 2: No, it's all puns.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, it's all bad, and I love a pun,

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Speaker 3: but none of these puns are good.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: And then then the final part of this is so

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Speaker 3: it's you know, it backs up the enthusiastic profanity with

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Speaker 3: an impressively high laugh to gag Ratio and a surprisingly

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Speaker 3: thought provoking storyline.

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Speaker 2: Also, no, I like truly the no no like this

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Speaker 2: is I went to a letterboxed on this one as well,

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Speaker 2: just to get a fe I love letterbox reviews a lot.

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Speaker 2: Oh they're great. The top review is I'm only four

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Speaker 2: minutes into this, but I think this is the most

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Speaker 2: evil movie I've ever seen. And I hard agree with that.

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Speaker 2: And this is why we need better movies about hot dogs.

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Speaker 2: And I would I I'm you know, I'm not even

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Speaker 2: throwing my hat in the ring. I am the fucking ring.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna make a hot dog movie that doesn't suck ass.

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Speaker 2: This is my history with this movie is that I

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Speaker 2: saw it similar shortly after it came out, because but

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Speaker 2: I remember like seeing it with a friend that we

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Speaker 2: were watching it again. We hadn't started the Betel cast.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean we weren't feminists or like didn't

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Speaker 2: have a brain that like. I saw it because I

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Speaker 2: thought I would be a like really upset and annoyed

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Speaker 2: by it, and so we watched it kind of as

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Speaker 2: like a joke. Yeah, and you know, sure enough, I

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Speaker 2: fucking hated it. I may have written about it at

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Speaker 2: the time. This was back when I was doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of like writing. I mean, I was like a

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Speaker 2: full time writer on various websites. Wow brag, thank you.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm pretty sure I wrote an essay about

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Speaker 2: it for Paste at the time, not about Sausage Party

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Speaker 2: in particular, but like this like manchild comedy that I

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Speaker 2: think has since this is kind of like as far

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Speaker 2: as I can tell, at least in the hugely popular

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Speaker 2: sense kind of the tail end of it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it had a fucking run. I would say that this

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Speaker 2: like style of broadly offensive humor that employs all of

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Speaker 2: these fucking tropes that says it saying something, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: And it's pretty fucking evil, is they. It had a good,

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Speaker 2: like decade long kind of choke hold on comedy in.

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Speaker 3: Movies, and it was like the Judd Apatow era.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's like yeah, and it's like that's the thing

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Speaker 2: that's fascinating, frustrating whatever about it is like even Judd

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Speaker 2: Apatow and Seth Rogan don't do shit like this anymore

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Speaker 2: because I don't think that they can get away with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know Seth has Seth Rogan not been like, oops,

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Speaker 3: I made some stuff back in the day that I

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Speaker 3: can't really vouch for anymore. Did that happen, Yes, definitely, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he did so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it is kind of interesting that in

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Speaker 2: the last two years, it appears this like started in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Seth Rogan has attempted to sort of

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Speaker 2: address past offensive both like content in movies and treatment

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Speaker 2: of people, if not from him specifically by a production

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Speaker 2: that he was involved whether or in charge of. So.

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Speaker 2: Examples would include i'ma Watson and this is the end

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Speaker 2: Catherine Heigel in Knocked Up, and I'm also seeing an

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Speaker 2: incident regarding a child actor in Good Boys, a movie

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Speaker 2: I did not see having their skin darkened. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: So there was this sort of I don't want to

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Speaker 2: be too reductive and say apology tour like, but a

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Speaker 2: series of like this is such a I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but they're okay in any case. My opinion is that

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Speaker 2: Sausage Party is too recent to be doing but it

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Speaker 2: does feel like this all that to say, Sausage Party

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Speaker 2: feels like arriving at the tail end of this style

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Speaker 2: of comedy being extremely mainstream popular.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it still has a long way to go,

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Speaker 3: but there was kind of like a cultural turning point,

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Speaker 3: like right around this time where media and especially comedy

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Speaker 3: wasn't so reliant on reductive stereotypes and tropes and punching

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Speaker 3: down humor, which we've talked about many times on the show.

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Speaker 3: That became way less popular right around this time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and this it's because the Bechtel no kidding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, we fixed the world. You're welcome, everybody, no

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 2: I do think it like has I mean whatever, We're

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Speaker 2: not historians or anthropologists, but this comes out, you know,

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Speaker 2: the summer before the twenty sixteen election, which I feel

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Speaker 2: like was a marked kind of a huge shift in

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Speaker 2: demanding better representation for sure in movies. Was that successful

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Speaker 2: still TBD, working on it, work in progress. But I

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Speaker 2: do take a little bit of comfort in watching this

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Speaker 2: movie that was a hit in twenty sixteen and feeling

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Speaker 2: pretty confident that it probably couldn't even get green lid

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Speaker 2: here right now. So that makes me feel a little better.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I saw this movie as a joke. I

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Speaker 2: have not thought of it since really, I mean to

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Speaker 2: the point where I literally wrote a book about hot

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Speaker 2: dogs and didn't even think to include it. Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it has no lasting legacy, which is comforting.

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Speaker 2: No, and I don't think I think, especially because of

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Speaker 2: the style of humor being so broad and I think evil,

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Speaker 2: as well as the labor issues that sort of stuck

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Speaker 2: to this movie for several years. I know that there's

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Speaker 2: been interest in a sequel from Seth Rogan, but I

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Speaker 2: just personally I don't see it happening. However, Caitlin. In

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Speaker 2: October twenty twenty two, Sausage Party Food Topia, a sequel

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Speaker 2: series based on the film, was greenlt from Amazon Studios.

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Speaker 2: So too, well, you know, uh, look at look at God,

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Speaker 2: which is what this movie says it's about, but it's not. Yeah,

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00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 2: should we get into. This movie really is viscerally upset. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's there's so many like I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: true of a lot of the there's like a lot

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Speaker 2: of performers I genuinely enjoy in this movie.

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Speaker 3: And there's so many people that are too good for

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Speaker 3: the Why is Selma Hike in this?

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Speaker 2: Oh God? I mean we'll get into I mean, I

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Speaker 2: I at very least hope that people were well some

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't even know. I don't know, I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I'm so like, oh, I don't know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: why did they? I just feel deflated?

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Speaker 3: Same. Well, let's take a quick break and regroup. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and then we'll come back for a recap that will

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Speaker 3: just upset us again. Great, So we'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: And we're back, all right. Can I just quickly read

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Speaker 2: off the cast for this movie? Please? Okay? It really

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Speaker 2: is all okay, seth Rogen, Michael Sarah Kristen Wick, Edward Norton,

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Speaker 2: question Mark, David Crumb, Holds h betrayal, Salma Hayak, Bill Hayter.

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Speaker 2: I think comes out the worst, yeah, out of the

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Speaker 2: whole cast. And that's saying something. Craig Robinson, Nick Kroll,

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Speaker 2: James Franco, Jonah Haill, Andrews Home, Danny McBride, how dare he?

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Speaker 2: Paul Rudd, It's just come on, come on, yeah, all

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Speaker 2: of you, all of you, shame on you, except for

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Speaker 2: I would say Salama hyak, everyone else, shame on you. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But also her character. We'll get there, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. So I don't know. I hope they

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Speaker 2: paid her a lot of money. But also, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: we didn't what they probably didn't. Why would you do this?

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Speaker 2: How I can't imagine outside of money, you know. I

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Speaker 2: just don't know. I just don't know. I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about this the other day when I was watching a

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Speaker 2: video of Bill nigh he O King, who describes walking

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Speaker 2: around the set of Pirates of the Caribbean when he

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Speaker 2: was playing Davy Jones, just saying the money, the money,

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Speaker 2: the money. I was like, I hope, oh wow, oh

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Speaker 2: he's the best of him.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: Sausage party. So most of the movie.

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Speaker 3: Takes place at a grocery store called Shop Wells. We

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Speaker 3: meet a few hot dogs in a pack. Frank voiced

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Speaker 3: by Seth Rogen.

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Speaker 2: As a hot dog. He's Frank hilarious. I'm laughing already. Wait,

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Speaker 2: but do the buns have tits? This is so upset

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Speaker 2: gender essentialism with hot dogs, like oh oh oh, that's nasty.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole spiel I have that's fucking filthy.

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Speaker 3: Another hot dog is Carl voiced by Jonah Hill and

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Speaker 3: Barry voiced by Michael Sarah. These hot dogs, along with

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Speaker 3: all of the other food and condiments and household products

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Speaker 3: in this grocery store, are sentient, and their goal is

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Speaker 3: to be selected by people who the food thinks are gods.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so quick energ I'm gonna try to try my

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Speaker 2: best to enjoy this episode more by interjecting with hot

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Speaker 2: dog facts. I love please that dogs are now sentient. Yes, no,

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Speaker 2: I will say that there is not that. I think

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Speaker 2: that anyone who was writing this movie was thinking a

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Speaker 2: thought the entire time. Correct, But there is a weird

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Speaker 2: precedent for like picturing like hot dogs specifically, but also

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Speaker 2: a lot of food of just like anthropomortiizing food in

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00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: a way that is like begging you to eat it

400
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 2: in a way that's kind of nasty. And there's one

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00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 2: particular hot dog statue that is I've seen it across

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Speaker 2: the country. I want I don't know. I didn't. This

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Speaker 2: was not an international project, so I can only speak

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Speaker 2: to the US. If you're a listener outside of the

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Speaker 2: US that has seen this hot dog statue, please let

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Speaker 2: me know. It's so gross. It is a It's first

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Speaker 2: of all, it's huge, It's like six feet tall, and

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00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: it's it sort of is anthropomorphized in the Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 2: way that that these hot dogs are. They got the

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Speaker 2: white gloves, they got the little legs, whatever, you gotta

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Speaker 2: make them look like something. And I feel like the

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Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse method is most common. But this hot dog

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Speaker 2: is slouching over. He's holding I say he because it

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00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: seems like that's what again, the gender is antalism of

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Speaker 2: hot dogs.

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Speaker 3: People love to gender hot dogs as men and more specifically.

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Speaker 2: Horny man heenuses, okay, whatever, but the hot dog is

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Speaker 2: louched over. He's also got teeth hat that yeah, I mean,

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00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: so does Frank. And you're like, well, it like you

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00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: could have a whole thing that There's this amazing video

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00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: from this YouTuber named Mike's Mike where he breaks down

422
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 2: everything about the movie Cars that is like body horror,

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Speaker 2: and you could have a very similar video about this.

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Speaker 2: But the hot talk statues holding ketch him in one hand,

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Speaker 2: mustard and another squeezing it all over on himself and

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Speaker 2: licking his teeth like he's dressing himself to be eaten

427
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Speaker 2: by you. But he also looks like he's kind of

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Speaker 2: in pain. Oh No, it's disgusting and it's so big.

429
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 2: And then I looked it up online. It costs like

430
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: twelve hundred dollars. I'm like, why would you buy this?

431
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: Why would this be in your house? So this is

432
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: they wanted to put that on the cover of my

433
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: book and I was like, you can't. You can't do that.

434
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: You can't do that. I'm gonna send you a picture please.

435
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: It's so nasty.

436
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 3: So this is like just a piece of like decorative

437
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 3: art question mark that you can buy and have in

438
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: your house.

439
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 2: No, so it's used mostly. I mean I guess you could,

440
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: but it's used mostly in hot dog restaurants. Oh, I see,

441
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: but true. I mean, this thing is being sold for

442
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars on eBay and it's disgusting. It's so gross.

443
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 2: And then in Chicago, what is more common practice is

444
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: they will break off the arm holding the ketchup bottle.

445
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 3: Oh, because Chicago hot dogs are all about mustard.

446
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: They're all no there, it's well, they're they they're all

447
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: about a lot of things, but they're more about like,

448
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: no ketchup. I see Okay, are you seeing this? Oh

449
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: my god, it's it's thank you.

450
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 3: It's even worse than I was picturing in my head.

451
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: The face is really troubling.

452
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: It's perverse. Also, he's like wearing sneakers and socks and

453
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: has teeth, and I'm just like, this is too far.

454
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm just the one I'm seeing. He's like licking

455
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: his lips. Yes, so it has a tongue.

456
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 2: Yes, I've seen variants that have teeth. There's a few

457
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 2: different variants on this. But and then there's also one

458
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: that's wrapped in an American flag, because this is so

459
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: you know, the hot dog is so tied into American jingoism,

460
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: even though it's not an American dish. It's fucking Greek

461
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: and Polish. But whatever, al right, sorry, sausage party.

462
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, we meet all these hot dogs. Also, these

463
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 3: hot dogs are not being refrigerated. They're just on a

464
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: regular ass shelf, nasty next to buns.

465
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: I would rather they refrigerate the buns.

466
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: That's fine, Yeah, right, you can do that, you can. Yeah,

467
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: they last longer probably, but yeah, no, there's just like

468
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: room temperature hot dogs and we're supposed to be rooting

469
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: for them. Yeah right, Okay, So the whole thing is

470
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: that all the food revers humans as gods and they

471
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: want to be taken out of the store to the

472
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: quote unquote Great Beyond. Because the food does not know

473
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: that its purpose is to be eaten. They think that

474
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: they're going to be taken out of the store and

475
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: it's going to be this wonderful paradise because the movie

476
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: is an allegory for religion, and the food believes this

477
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: dogma about the Great Beyond basically being heaven all this stuff.

478
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: Yes, this is like the beginning of this movie's attempt

479
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: to make comment on faith, right, I feel was not

480
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: very well done, but you can tell they're attempting it, yes, right, Yeah, So.

481
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: The main thing with the hot dogs, who again are

482
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: coded as men, and we'll talk all about the coding

483
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: and the gender essentralism of all of this, but the

484
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: hot dogs who are men are excited. The main thing

485
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: that they're excited about is that they will be put

486
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: inside the hot dog buns who are coded as women.

487
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: And also coded as sentient vaginas. Right, and well, here's

488
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: what happens is that the here's the thing for me,

489
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: this is complicated stuff.

490
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: The hot dogs being put inside hot dog buns is

491
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: this very nuanced, subtle metaphor for heterosex. You probably didn't

492
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: know that until I explained it, because it's just so

493
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: subtle or.

494
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 4: Really subtle, and it's like, let's yeah, let's it's it's

495
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: really a hetero. And it's also very uh, everything in

496
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 4: this on this shelf is uh sis hetero. I'm like, correct,

497
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: they're fucking hot dogs.

498
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: Stop it, stop it? What? Uh yeah? The SCENTI and

499
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: I will say that the design, I mean whatever, animation wise,

500
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: the character design of the hot dogs. I'm not super upset.

501
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: I don't love to see teeth inside of a hot dog,

502
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: but I guess it's scarier if there's no teeth, if

503
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: we're anthrop whatever. The buns, Oh no, inexcusable, bad, bad, bad,

504
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: They're all because I feel like there's all these jokes

505
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: that have ablest coding to them of like a smooshed bun,

506
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: or like a hot dog that isn't like the correct

507
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: quote unquote shape or size or whatever, which is not

508
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: just ablest coded, very very clearly. It's also like, but

509
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: the regular buns don't look like hot dog buns because

510
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: regular hot dog buns don't have todays and a big

511
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: old butt like we talk, and like hot dog bus

512
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: are not like famously curvy, like what are you talking about? More?

513
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: And I hate the sideways. Oh they don't have that's

514
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: so okay. Why does seth Rogen hot dog have teeth?

515
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: Christm wigbun no teeth, Sideway's mouth, no teeth.

516
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: The character design in this movie is just I hate it.

517
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the vagina buns I have, really I have,

518
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: it's so hard to look at. Yeah, so, and you're

519
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: just like, but vaginas are literally beautiful, Wow, why would

520
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: you do that? And also it's like I don't like

521
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: it's just all like the fact that I mean, we've

522
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: talked about this in animation before, where anything remotely woman coded,

523
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: and like we've been talking about this since the Ghostbusters

524
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: episode where it's like male coded animated characters can look

525
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: like anything. Women have to have a fucking huge like iftimes,

526
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: like distinct boobs and butt, which is obviously like not

527
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: knocking anyone who has boobs and butt? Like, whatever, how

528
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: dare you so? I have boobs and butt? What do

529
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: you say? I have a butt? I technically have boobs.

530
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: It's fine, Like it's fine, it's body. But like, you know,

531
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: we can't look like anything.

532
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: Right, we It's it's a very specific like western beauty

533
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: standards body shape and size that is ascribed to female

534
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: characters in animation.

535
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: But Kaitlyn, why why for.

536
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: A hot dog bun?

537
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: The hot dog is, well, the hot dog, but even

538
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: by this movie's logic, the hot dog is clearly supposed

539
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: to be penis coated. Right, it's a sentient thick and

540
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: it's horny, because that's how we essentialize male sexuality. Right.

541
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: The bun is vagina, But vaginas don't have boobs. It's

542
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: kind of if that would mean you're so sick if

543
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: that was happening. I just don't know, Like I just don't, like, yeah,

544
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: vaginas don't have butt.

545
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: They don't have an ass, they don't they don't have titties.

546
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: Not to be a woman in stem but they don't.

547
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: But it's like it's so perverse to me that like

548
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: even just making the character a sentient vagina was not horny. Enough,

549
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: they also had to give the vagina. Yeah, boobs and

550
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: a butt. It doesn't make sense and it looks horrible.

551
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: It looks like shit.

552
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: It's so cross not knocking the animators. I'm sure that

553
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: the creatives insisted on this.

554
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the animators aren't designing the characters. No, So whoever

555
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: was responsible for character design really needs to.

556
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: Really, I this movie is like truly chaotic evil on

557
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: every level, and these things are sort of like occurring

558
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: to me as we go, like, Wow, they really put

559
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: boobs and a butt on a vagina. Yes, that is correct.

560
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: We're never gonna be any free. This is just like

561
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: a nightmare. Yeah, okay.

562
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: So the main bun character who we meet and follow

563
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: throughout the movie is Brenda voiced by Kristin Wig. She

564
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: is Frank's girlfriend love Kristin Wig same and the following

565
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: day is the fourth of July, which means that it's

566
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: pretty likely that the hot dogs and buns will be

567
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 3: taken out of the store to the Great Beyond and

568
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: Frank Brenda will finally get to have sex. Yeah, sure enough,

569
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: Frank's pack of hot dogs and Brenda's pack of buns

570
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: are selected from the shelf and put into a cart

571
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: by one of the quote unquote gods aka a woman.

572
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: But before this happens, they have some sort of sexual contact.

573
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: They have touched tips, yeah, which is later used. And

574
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: I saw reviews at this movie that were like, this

575
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: is the commentary on Christian values, and you're like, shut up,

576
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: they're like that they touch tips, They touch fingertips, right,

577
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 2: but it's like a sexually coated like yeah, whatever, touch

578
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: tips fine, which is then used for the rest when

579
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: things go wrong in the movie. As time goes on,

580
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: Brenda thinks that this is because she had any sort

581
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: of pre marital or like pre whatever.

582
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

583
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: She thinks she's being punished by the gods for having

584
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 3: pre marital sexual contact with Frank.

585
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: Which I guess you could argue comes around in the end,

586
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: but not in a very satisfying way. And it and

587
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: also just like the way that they're and again I

588
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: know that this was argued as commentary, but it just

589
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: it didn't argue with me. Were at the beginning, the

590
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: hot dogs are just like, we want to fucking fucking fuck,

591
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: and then the bun ladies are like, we want to

592
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: be loved.

593
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: Me and we went to I wrote it down, it's

594
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: we went to love and hug and feel and share

595
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: me via because women be having emotions and men only

596
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: want to have sex.

597
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: Ha ha ha. I mean I want to love and

598
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: feel and share too, but people of all genders want

599
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: to love and feel in chair and also people, what

600
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: the fuck? This movie is so essential as it's so boring.

601
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: I hate it.

602
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 3: It sucks.

603
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 2: Sorry.

604
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: Okay, So Frank and Brenda have been put in a cart. Yeah,

605
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 3: but there's this jar of honey mustard that had been

606
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: purchased by mistake and gets returned to the store. So

607
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: he went out into the quote unquote Great Beyond or

608
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: the like unknown area beyond the store, write how could you?

609
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: And then the honey mustard ends up in this woman's

610
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: cart with Frank and Brenda, and the honey mustard tells

611
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 3: everyone what he has discovered about what actually happens in

612
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 3: the Great Beyond. It is a hellscape where food is eaten.

613
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 3: So chaos ensues upon hearing this news, and a bunch

614
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: of food goes flying out of the cart, including Frank

615
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: and Brenda because they've gotten loose from their packaging. The

616
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 3: store closes shortly thereafter, and Frank and Brenda, who are

617
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 3: now just sort of like loose in the store. They

618
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: set off to find other packages that they can sneak

619
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: into in the hopes that they will still be chosen

620
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: and taken to the great beyond, although Frank is now

621
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 3: skeptical and once more information because what if the honey

622
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: mustard was right and.

623
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: The honey mustard tells him to go see a bottle

624
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: of firewater? Yes? And also we haven't brought up because

625
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: I don't know why this is like truly writing wise,

626
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: even if we're just looking at this as writers, I

627
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: don't know why the character of Douche, that's right, Oh,

628
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: the big bat of this movie is called Douche. I

629
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: don't know why there's like randomly a villain, Like it's

630
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: not even necessary to the shitty story that's being told

631
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: for there to be this villain, right, Like the crisis

632
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: of faith in the Quest is enough. You don't need. Yeah,

633
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: the villain of the movie's named Douche.

634
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and you're never gonna he's about to come.

635
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 2: Up, which I'm like, do they even sell those at

636
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: the grocery store? I don't know.

637
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 3: But also it's such a clear indication that this movie

638
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: was written by men, and all the major creative makers

639
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: of this movie were men. Because like, and not to

640
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: make sweeping generalizations here, but I have never known a

641
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: person who has a vagina to ever use a douche

642
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 3: in my entire life. And maybe that's just something that

643
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: people tend to keep private, but also like me and

644
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: my friends talk about this stuff all the time, and

645
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 3: like you learn at an early age if you have

646
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: a vagina that.

647
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: Douching is not good for you.

648
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 3: It's like it cause yeast infections, and like my mom, yeah,

649
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: like that's something you learn early on and it's like

650
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: advised that you don't do it. And so no one

651
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 3: I know with a vagina has ever used so a douche.

652
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: But the guys who wrote this movie were like, oh,

653
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 3: what's a product that a woman would buy?

654
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 2: A douche? I have. Unfortunately, I do have some information

655
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: on this from what is health dot Gov about dushing,

656
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: So douching is not necessarily uncommon. I will agree with you.

657
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: I have no I've ever known. I've never I mean

658
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: I've never used one, and I don't know anyone who

659
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: has because my mom told me when I was young

660
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: that it is like you're saying, like, Okay, here's some

661
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: information on douching. Yes, so everyone knows this is from

662
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: the government. Can we trust them? Duching is washing or

663
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: cleaning out the vagina with water or other mixtures of fluids.

664
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 2: In the United States, almost one in five women fifteen

665
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: to forty four years old. Again, the definition of a

666
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: woman being very narrow there because it's the fucking government,

667
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: but almost one in five fifteen to forty four years

668
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 2: old douche. Doctors recommend that you do not douche. Douching

669
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: can lead to many health problems, including problems getting pregnant.

670
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: Douching is also linked to vaginal infections and sexually transmitted infections.

671
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: So and maybe it's a generational thing where it's like

672
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: they just people in our generation sort of learned that

673
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: it was not healthy. But again it's like seth broken

674
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: is like ten years old, Like it's just it. It

675
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: is like a lazy and the way that the character

676
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: it's so clear why they name that, because douche is

677
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: also like shorthand for an asshole, which is you know,

678
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: it happens all the time where anything vaguely feminine, Like

679
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: why is it like Michael Sarah says this at one

680
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: point because he's in this movie where it's like, you know,

681
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 2: if you're you're anything like feminine coded, there's like a

682
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: strong meaning too. That's why I'm very pro asshole. It

683
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: always works as an insult. You mean, yes, yes, it's

684
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: a great equalizer.

685
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: I've replaced almost everything with like asshole or shithead or

686
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 3: something just like very.

687
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: Neutral because poo poo, and that's why we're so sophisticated.

688
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: But there's like Michael Sarah's Michael Sarah's character refers to

689
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: himself as a pussy at one point, which is a

690
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: classic example of like, you know, a vagina being weak.

691
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: You're like sure, but the same with like douche equals

692
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: bad because reasons. And the Nick Carl character is like

693
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 2: a Jim bro who I think, like you know, would

694
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 2: have this, would have douche attributed to him basically right.

695
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: But it's just like, I mean, not that the rest

696
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 2: of this movie. I thought that that was like especially

697
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: not just like more lazy like whatever, but also just

698
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: like weird writing because I don't think this movie even

699
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: needs a villain. I don't get it right.

700
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 3: Also, I did not even know what that was supposed

701
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 3: to be until the douche identifies himself as a douche

702
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 3: because I thought, like, douches aren't packaged that way. So

703
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: I was like, is that like a toilet brush and

704
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 3: it's like toilet brush container. That's what I thought it

705
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: was at first, because like, I like, I don't think

706
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 3: their package douches are packaged that way. Even it's in

707
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: like a Summer's Eve box and it's discreet anyway, So

708
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: I'm about, yeah, I'm about to introduce the douche character.

709
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: But before that, Brenda and Frank, who again are just

710
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: like loose and roaming through the store, team up with

711
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 3: a few other items that also flew out of the cart,

712
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: a levache named Kareem Abdullah Lavash voiced by David Crumholts

713
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: aka Bernard the Elf from the Santa Claus.

714
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: Another massive betrayal. Huge and this is again I'm like,

715
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: I didn't find any information on why this choice was made.

716
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if you did. But the fact that

717
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: like David Crumholt is playing a character who is definitely

718
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: coded as being Middle Eastern and Muslim, which David Crumholts

719
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 2: is not. But David Crumholt is a Jewish Man.

720
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: But the Jewish character aka Sammy Bagel Junior, who is

721
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: a Bagel Jewish by Edward Norton, like doing a Woody

722
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: Allen impression the whole time. And if you're wondering if

723
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: heinous stereotypes are employed here, oh.

724
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean it's it's truly. From what

725
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: I can tell is that the hot dogs are kind

726
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: of coded as Protestant Christian Christian white guys. Yeah, and

727
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: the buns are presented as Christian white girls. And then

728
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 2: everyone everyone else in the movie is I guess, with

729
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: the exception of Douche, is like pretty heavily stereotyped, like

730
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: a heavily stereotyped culture.

731
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, basically, I mean, and we'll get to

732
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: this in more detail, but the movie codes most of

733
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: the food in particular ways, often ascribing a particular race, ethnicity,

734
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: and or religion to several different food items. And with

735
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 3: that comes this just a whole slew of reductive and

736
00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 3: harmful portrayals of marginalized communities. So that's what we're working with.

737
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, that is most of what the movie

738
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: relies on. And we again, it's like Kaylin and I

739
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: discussed this before we started recording, where it's like we

740
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 2: will make note of like where these characters appear, but

741
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: I don't even like, we don't even really want to

742
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: harp on how deeply offense because it's like because.

743
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: To describe the ways in which the offensive things are

744
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: happening is just like upsetting to do, and I don't

745
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 3: even want to like repeat it.

746
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: So it's a yeah, it's a it's a waste of air,

747
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 2: but it is worth mentioning what is being done because

748
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: this was a successful movie fairly recently. It's such a bummer.

749
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So they team up with these couple other characters,

750
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 3: and then meanwhile, a douche voiced by Nick Kroll becomes

751
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 3: a villain because he wants revenge against Frank and Brenda

752
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: for getting him thrown away and damaged after that chart disaster.

753
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 3: So there's this random villain. Frank, Brenda and the others

754
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: make their way through the store. They pass through the

755
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 3: liquor aisle because Frank wants to talk to this Bottle

756
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 3: of Firewater, who is an indigenous coded character voiced by

757
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 3: Bill Hayter Yikes, who seems to know things about the

758
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: Great Beyond and how it might not be all that

759
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: it's cracked up to. Be Yes and Firewater tells Frank

760
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 3: that he and a few other non perishable items in

761
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 3: the store.

762
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: Who don't worry, are also all wildly stereotyped.

763
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: For sure, they invented the idea of the Great Beyond

764
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: in order to keep the food happy and unaware of

765
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 3: their impending doom. However, they note that it's been distorted

766
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 3: along the way, but if Frank wants proof of this,

767
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 3: he should go to the arc Aisle be on the ice. Meanwhile,

768
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: Brenda and the others get tricked by a bottle of

769
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 3: tequila who is trying to lead them to the Douche,

770
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: but a hard taco shell Teresa del Taco voiced by

771
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 3: Salma Hayek saves them. The douche is trying to like

772
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: attack them, but Brenda and the others get away. Then

773
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: this is this.

774
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: Movie is so evil. This movie is horrid, so evil.

775
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: There was a really good I thought piece in Salon

776
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: by Nico Lang when this movie first came out that

777
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 2: unpacked in particular, how infuriating it is that Salama Hiak's

778
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: character is written the way she is, not only because

779
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: it's I mean, because it's like racism and cultural stereotypes

780
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: on top of sexism, like it's just like a two bunch,

781
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: And Salmahayak has been so historically outspoken about how frustrating

782
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: it is to be a Latin actor and be treated

783
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 2: like this repeatedly. I mean, Samahaiak, a Oscar nominated actor

784
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: for playing Freda that has to take parts like this,

785
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: And so I just wanted to share a quick quote

786
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: from Salamahayak. Yeah, because I love Samahaik and I just

787
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: really she says, I had things said to me that

788
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 2: you would not believe. A studio executive once informed Hayak

789
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: that she would be a much bigger star had she

790
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: been born in the United States. He allegedly told her

791
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: the moment you open your mouth, you remind everyone of

792
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: their maid. And there was another time. I mean, it's

793
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: and she's been again. She's been very outspoken about this

794
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: over the years and still has to take fucking parts

795
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: like this, which I think is a systemic failure for sure.

796
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: Another example she gave over the years was when she

797
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 2: was almost in and it wasn't specific about what movie,

798
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: but she was almost the lead in a sci fi

799
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: film that was being directed by a white guy. But

800
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: then the executive overruled her casting and forced uh the

801
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: director to drop Samahayak because they said a Mexican in space.

802
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: Then another movie that like isn't even good that you

803
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: remember that movie grown ups, it's like an Adam Sandler movie.

804
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I didn't see it either, but yeah, I

805
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: know of it.

806
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: It's very an Adam Stanley movie. But Smahaiak, I guess

807
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: plays his wife in that movie, and he had to

808
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: fight for her to get that part. Like it's just

809
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: like she's Oscar nominated, Like it's she's unbelievably talented, Like

810
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: there's no need us to tell you how Hyak is

811
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: fucking awesome, but like, yeah, the way she's treated it

812
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: in particular, where I'm just like this is just fucking unacceptable.

813
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: And also Samahayak is a good like comedic actor too,

814
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: like if they but they're just like, ah, I hate it.

815
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: I hate it. And she's one of the few actors

816
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 2: who is cast as like her own race, where there's

817
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: many where.

818
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 3: That is not the case because it's mostly white actors

819
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 3: voicing non white coded characters.

820
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: I think, with the exception of Craig Robinson and Samahayak,

821
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: that is the case. Bill Hayter as Firewaters. It felt

822
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: like it was pulling from like the animated Peter Pan

823
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: from the nineteen fifties portrayal of Indigenous Americans for sure,

824
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 2: voiced by a white guy.

825
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 3: Bill Hayter also voices Tequila and Elguaco, which are Mexican

826
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: coded characters.

827
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also coded as being predatory. Yeah. And in

828
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 2: addition to this, is also pointed out in Nico Leang's

829
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: article that we will link is casting the only Indigenous

830
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: coded character as Firewater.

831
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 3: As a bottle of liquor.

832
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, I think, pretty clearly mocking alcoholism and

833
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: indigenous can munities, which is a topic we've discussed in

834
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: other episodes. And like it's just cruel, Like it's just

835
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: I it is. It truly blows my mind that any

836
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 2: of this was argued as commentary, like that is you're

837
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 2: just doing the thing.

838
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: It's such punching down humor dialed up.

839
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: In a way that is like worse than the nineteen fifties.

840
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 2: Like what there, it's it's a lot, I mean, yeah,

841
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 2: it just really yeah, all right, so back to the movie.

842
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 3: We then cut to the other hot dogs who remained

843
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 3: in the package and went home with that like Woman's Shopper,

844
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 3: and at the woman's house, Barry watches in horror as

845
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 3: food is peeled and chopped up and boiled and melted

846
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: and eaten. Carl is sliced in half, but Barry survives

847
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 3: and escapes. Back in the store, Brenda and the others

848
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 3: link back up with Frank, but none of them want

849
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 3: to go with him to the Dark Isle because they

850
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: still believe in the Great Beyond, so Frank has to

851
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 3: head to the Dark Isle alone. Back outside of the store,

852
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: Burry the hot Dog manages to stow away in some

853
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 3: dude's car. He thinks he's headed back to shop Wells,

854
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: but they end up at this guy's apartment where this

855
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: guy proceeds to do bath salts.

856
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 2: I think this is the James Franco character. Yes, and

857
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 2: also bad I mean no, not, But like this movie

858
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 2: is already so dated where it's like, god, I don't know,

859
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 2: like bath salts no longer really a subject of discussion, right.

860
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 3: It really puts this movie in a particular time in history.

861
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: The two outside of just being straight up offensive, the

862
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: two things that felt the most dated to me were

863
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: the references to bat and also like the Jim bro humor,

864
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: which is I think it was just like done to

865
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 2: death and people are fucking tired of it and know

866
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 2: it like because that's every everything that comes out of

867
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: Douche's mouth is like, don't fucking leave it, bro, And

868
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: you're like, right.

869
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 3: God know if that's just because I'm swiping left on

870
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: hundreds of men who seem to fit this description on

871
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: bumble and shit like that, but I feel like that

872
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: caricature of a of a man is still very much

873
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 3: a thing. It didn't that didn't even feel that dated

874
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 3: to me, so I decay, Yeah, yeah, it's worse than

875
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 3: we feared.

876
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 2: Anyway.

877
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 3: Because this dude is on bath salts, he and Barry

878
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 3: can understand each other because the drugs enable him to

879
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 3: like see if this fourth dimension where he can see

880
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 3: the sentient food, And so they talk and the guy

881
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 3: promises to return Barry to the grocery store. Back at

882
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 3: the store, Brenda, Sammy, and Ravash finally make it to

883
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 3: their respective ales and part ways. Meanwhile, Frank reaches the

884
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 3: dark isle, which is full of knives and cookwar and

885
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 3: a cookbook that shows all of these recipes for preparing food,

886
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 3: which is proof that people eat food and that the

887
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 3: Great Beyond is a myth. But when Frank shows this

888
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 3: to all the other food in the store over a

889
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: video monitor and loud speaker, he's like, here's the truth,

890
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: and if you don't believe it, you're a fool. And

891
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: the food feels insulted, and they're like, this sounds like

892
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 3: another theory, and I choose to believe the more pleasant thing.

893
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 3: So none of the other food gets on board with him.

894
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: Right, which is another sort of like I don't know,

895
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: I guess if you're listening, you feel however you wanted.

896
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 2: But I was like, this is like sort of another

897
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: like swipe that is at all religions so broadly as

898
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: to mean nothing, and also in kind of a way

899
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 2: that feels very I can't like it's still like twenty

900
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 2: sixteen was a little too late to still be attempting this,

901
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: but like suggesting like atheism is the only method, the

902
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: only way to like to freedom of your mind, which

903
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 2: just feels a little right. What's his name? Bill? Who's

904
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: the guy?

905
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 3: Hmmm?

906
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Bill, Bill, Bill fucking the guy on TV.

907
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: I'll science guy. No, I don't. I think he's respectful

908
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: of other people's religions. I hope. No, I'm thinking of Bill,

909
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: not Bill NYI. And that's what comes from pole him

910
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: all the time. He's on HBO Bill Maher, Bill, Oh

911
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: my god, Bill Mahers, who's just like a kind of

912
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: like fucking asshole who has contempt for anyone that has

913
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: any sort of faith. That's not to say that faith,

914
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 2: that religion cannot be extremely repressive, obviously we know that,

915
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 2: but it's like it just feels like this and again

916
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 2: just a very overly simplistic like, well, if you didn't

917
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 2: believe in anything, maybe your life wouldn't suck so much.

918
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: You're like, well that feels a little a little broad

919
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: to me.

920
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 3: Definitely, Yes, this film. It's almost as if this film

921
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: lacks nuance.

922
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I'm just like we're wasting our time, Like, yeah,

923
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: what are we even doing by Jamie's book? But ya,

924
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: he's by my book. Please buy my book. It's nothing

925
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 2: like this. Oh my god.

926
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 3: No, there's there's lots more to discuss and the movie

927
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 3: is almost over, so yes, Barry shows up after Frank

928
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: has tried to give this speech about what everyone should

929
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 3: believe or should not believe, and Barry's like, no, you

930
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 3: can't tell people that they're fools. If they don't believe you,

931
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 3: we have to do it a different way. So then

932
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: they shoot all of the people in the store with

933
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: toothpicks covered in bath salts. And because bath salts allow

934
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 3: the people and food to understand each other, the.

935
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: People like it's the bath salt like a metaphor for

936
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: like empathy. I don't think they thought about it that hard.

937
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, you're right, you're right here.

938
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 3: But because the people are on bath salts, they start

939
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 3: freaking out and destroying the food, which allows the food

940
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 3: to see how evil and vicious the humans are that

941
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 3: they thought were gods, but they realize are actually monsters,

942
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 3: and they realized that Frank was right. So the food

943
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: fights back against the people. But this is when the

944
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 3: douche shows back up and puts himself up a store

945
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: employees butt and is like puppeting the store employee around

946
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 3: while he's holding a gun and trying to shoot the food.

947
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 3: But I've been so checked out by this point, as

948
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 3: like sure, I was watching it at like two times

949
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: speed by this point, and I feel like I missed

950
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 3: some stuff because I was like, I just need this

951
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 3: to end as quickly as possible.

952
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: I watched it twice to prepare, but yeah, the second

953
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: time I watched it on one point seventy five because

954
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: I'm just like this. It doesn't make a difference. It's

955
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: not like I'm ignoring something.

956
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: There's nothing to take no anyway. Okay, So the villains

957
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 3: are trying to kill the food, but Frank and Brenda

958
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 3: and Barry defeat the bad guys and they save the

959
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 3: food in the store, and then the movie ends with

960
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: an orgy where all the food is having sex with

961
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 3: each other, and then there's another final beat where the

962
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 3: bottle of five water is like, by the way, none

963
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 3: of us are real, We're a cartoon invented by Seth Rogan.

964
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 3: So it tries to have this like clever meta ending,

965
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 3: but it also falls completely flat and sucks the end.

966
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: And it's also weird that the only they're like which yeah,

967
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: which is like a very easy way to be like, yeah,

968
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: it was about nothing, right, it was about nothing because

969
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: it was like even with the ending again just like

970
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: shitty writing, where like the ending being like, oh now

971
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: everyone's like having this big food or a gee and

972
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: it's like not the rigid hetero like but it's still

973
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: like anytime there's queer sex, it's heavily commented on. And

974
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 2: then they even make Brenda Bunson feminist icon, you know,

975
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 2: sit next to Frank the hot Dog after and say like, well,

976
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 2: some like basically say that the queer sexual experience is

977
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: We're okay, but the best sex was with Frank the

978
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: hot Dog. Like you're just playing a hot dog? Did

979
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: you pick that up on that though, where like we

980
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: do get it, Like again, this is a victory for

981
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 2: nobody because again with Samaha playing a taco, that is yeah,

982
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: both racist and sexist vaginas have certainly been referred to

983
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: as tacos. And it's all like you don't need me

984
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: to explain this to you in the world, but like,

985
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: but at the end they do have. Okay, let's start there,

986
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: let's start. Let's start there. Yes, let's take first and

987
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 2: then will be right back. Please buy Raw Dog. Okay,

988
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: and we're back, and we're back. Seth Rogen says Raw Dog.

989
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 2: And I was like, this is bad press, that's blasphemy.

990
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: I've we've reclaimed brad Dog, We've taken it away from him.

991
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: It's not it's not for the hot Dog anymore. But

992
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: let's start with the story between Brenda and what is

993
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: Sama Hayek's character's.

994
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 3: Name, Teresa, And just just to contextualize this a bit

995
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 3: more before we dive in, which we've already mostly done,

996
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 3: but just to make it clear that, like, the hot

997
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 3: dogs are all coded as men and more specifically penises,

998
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 3: because there's all these jokes and even like a whole

999
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 3: storyline about how Bury the hot dog like feels insecure

1000
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 3: because he's not as long as the other hot dogs

1001
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: but he is gurthy and like all this stuff. And

1002
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 3: then the hot dog buns are coded as women slash vaginas,

1003
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 3: but again, like the vagina buns also have boobs.

1004
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: The point is it's very.

1005
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 3: Gender essentialist and reductive, and it's basically just saying like, and.

1006
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 2: Brenda Bunsen says, I'm so tight, and like it's just like.

1007
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 3: Right, all these like attempts at jokes of how hahaha,

1008
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: bond equals vagina, hot dog equals penis, which is like

1009
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 3: the easiest and most unoriginal joke in the world, And

1010
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 3: yet the whole movie hinges on this very lazy, obvious

1011
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 3: joke as if it's some brilliant bit of comedy that

1012
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 3: no one's ever thought of before and.

1013
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 2: Then on top of that, penis equals ma always man, Ye,

1014
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 2: vagina equals always went like, it's very sis normative as well,

1015
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 2: and it's right.

1016
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 3: So not only is it reducing people to their genitals

1017
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 3: in a way that means, oh, like men have dicks

1018
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: and because of that, they're so fucking horny and all

1019
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 3: they want to do is fuck all the time, and

1020
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 3: reduces women to vaginas, and also like they have feelings

1021
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 3: because they have vaginas, and it's very transphobic. And yeah,

1022
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 3: just like reducing people to genitals and saying that only

1023
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 3: you know, to be a man means you have this genitalia.

1024
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 3: To be a woman means you have this genitalia. There's

1025
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 3: no room for anyone on the gender or like intersex spectrum.

1026
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 3: Just like it's just so rigid and binary.

1027
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, it's really difficult to discuss this movie without

1028
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 2: that constantly being the case. So we apologize if if

1029
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 2: we sound like we it's just really it's really hard

1030
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: to talk about this movie without feeling like you're aligning

1031
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: with that. Obviously that is not how we align, but

1032
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: this is just like the interior logic of the movie

1033
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: is so fucked and assumes so much that it's it's

1034
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: just like it's very difficult to have this right conversation. Yes,

1035
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 2: please buy rod Dog, but okay, so we have Teresa

1036
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: del Taco, Yes, okay, Del Taco is. You know, if

1037
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: you live in the US, you probably know an American

1038
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 2: fast food chain. American, but it's like americanized Mexican food,

1039
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: so already yeah lazy. But Teresa is I mean, she's

1040
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 2: a queer character who is immediately interested in Brenda, and

1041
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: like it's like implied that that's why Teresa helps the

1042
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 2: gang is because she has a thing for Brenda. We

1043
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: see a lot of very like again, you're like, what

1044
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 2: are we doing here? From Teresa's perspective, we see her

1045
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 2: constantly looking at Brenda's but like objectifying her. I feel

1046
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 2: like this movie. And then there is like a scene

1047
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: where again it's just like not like Brenda is I

1048
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 2: think like a queer character because she says when she

1049
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: and Teresa go their separate ways, like basically says like

1050
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm interested, but but.

1051
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 3: This religion we believe in.

1052
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: It would be against god right to have, which I

1053
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: think think is like again, the attempt that this movie

1054
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: is making to be like religion is so oppressive. And

1055
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 2: then at the end it comes around and everyone has

1056
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 2: a big orgy and you know, Teresa and Brent dadu

1057
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 2: have sex, or it's implied that everyone kind of has

1058
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 2: sex with everyone. But I do think and like, the

1059
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 2: way that queerness is treated in this movie is obviously bad,

1060
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 2: oh for sure. Okay, well to the point where there's

1061
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 2: a broad stereotype that isn't even like current. I'm like,

1062
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: how old are you? People? Like, we're very but like

1063
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: the entire fruit section of the grocery store is queer

1064
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: coded and mostly queer coded as men, yeah, gay men

1065
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 2: and yeah. So just again, because this movie is so

1066
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 2: gender essentialist, there is no real in between in terms

1067
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 2: of the gender spectrum, and we see queer men even

1068
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: though it's I feel like this was a time where

1069
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: it was like, well, any representation, you should be thrilled

1070
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 2: that we included this. I'm acknowledging, can you exist?

1071
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 3: And that's good enough.

1072
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 2: Where there's already I mean, it's so unshocking that they

1073
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 2: were working on this movie since two thousand and eight,

1074
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: because this feels more twenty eight than twenty sixteen, for sure,

1075
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: but that was when it was released, so you know,

1076
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 2: fuck you, but the like there's a fair amount of

1077
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 2: no homoing oh between hot dogs so much. But then

1078
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 2: when there are queer men, they're treated differently from queer women,

1079
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 2: which I know, again is essentialist, but it's something we've

1080
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: talked about before, where when they're queer women, it's very

1081
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 2: like ooh, this is sexy, this is leering, this is

1082
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and then when it's queer men, it's

1083
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 2: like funny and like it's I don't even I don't

1084
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: even really know what word to describe how because at

1085
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: the end, Sammy Bagel Junior and Kareem Abdul Levache hilarious

1086
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 2: by the way, I have sex, the Bagel says he

1087
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: has a boner. I'm like, well, I understand why you

1088
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 2: haven't attempted to show it, because what does that even mean?

1089
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: What does that mean? What that look like? Yeah, doesn't

1090
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 2: make sense, but those characters are so offensive and like, okay,

1091
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: so anyways, I thought it was interesting that Brenda and

1092
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: Teresa are like acknowledged to be queer by the plot,

1093
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: but like it's just so everything is so halfway because

1094
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 2: even like their interest in each other is still treated

1095
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 2: in a clearly written by straight men perspective.

1096
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 3: Lazy, yeah, mostly played as a joke, nothing interesting or

1097
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 3: meaningful being done with it. Yeah, so yeah, which is

1098
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: also what happens with uh. And again we touched on this,

1099
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 3: and it's not worth going into the details the specific

1100
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 3: examples because they're so upsetting, but just the racism, xenophobia,

1101
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 3: anti Islam, anti Semitic also like and it's so.

1102
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 2: Well that and yeah, that's that's the one. We talked

1103
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 2: about this a little bit as well, where that's I

1104
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 2: think the one. I'm curious what are our Jewish listeners think,

1105
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 2: but they're like, that feels like the only the only

1106
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 2: subject on which this group of writers has any leeway

1107
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: on because the story and the original like concept of

1108
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 2: this movie is by Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, and Jonah Hill,

1109
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: who are all Jewish writers. And you know, I still

1110
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 2: think this movie sucks no matter what, but I do

1111
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: want to acknowledge that there is a pretty well storied

1112
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 2: history of Jewish writers poking at tropes surrounding Jewish characters

1113
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 2: and also surrounding Nazism, which this movie also does. There

1114
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 2: is president for that. It's obviously done way better by

1115
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 2: artists like mel Brooks and like, I but I that's

1116
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 2: the only where I I don't know where to land

1117
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 2: on that because I'm not Jewish and I don't want to.

1118
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about this on the Borat episode

1119
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 3: as well. Yes, yes, on the is that a Matreon episode? Gosh,

1120
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: I've lost all track of what is where?

1121
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that it was when we covered Borat

1122
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 2: on the Matreon where it is like we did that.

1123
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 2: I can't I mean feminist masterpiece, it was said. But

1124
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 2: in any case, I, uh, yeah, I don't want to,

1125
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 2: you know, come down on the side of like Jewish

1126
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 2: writers cannot make any commentary on Jewish history in the

1127
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 2: form of a comedy. There's plenty of it. I just

1128
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: personally don't think anything is well done in this movie, right,

1129
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 2: But that's the one thing that I'm like, well, I

1130
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: don't really feel qualified to have a take on on that.

1131
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 2: I feel the same, however, we would be curious to

1132
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 2: know what our Jewish listeners think. I mean, it's just like,

1133
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 2: I just can't believe anyone liked this movie. It's so

1134
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 2: confusing to me. I wanted to quote a Lindy West

1135
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 2: piece that's also mentioned in this Nico Lang piece. You

1136
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 2: gotta love Lindy West. She said this back in twenty twelve,

1137
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 2: where basically in the press tour for this movie, as

1138
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 2: we've alluded to, the writers would say like, oh, this

1139
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 2: is equal opportunity, like offensiveness, Like we know that it's

1140
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 2: broad stereotypes, like, but it's with everyone. I think that

1141
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 2: that and that's sort of where they're poking at Jewish

1142
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 2: stereotypes come in, where they're like, we're doing it to ourselves.

1143
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 2: Too cool if we do it to everybody. So that

1144
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 2: is sort of the acknowledged ethos of how this movie

1145
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: was put together. It's like we're not exempt, so you're

1146
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 2: not exempt. So this is from a Lindy West essay

1147
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 2: for Jezebel in twenty twelve. She says, quote, the problem

1148
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 2: is that all people are not equal in positions of power,

1149
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 2: which is true because it's like these guys are making

1150
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 2: the movie like they're There is is one listed producer

1151
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 2: who is a woman, Megan Allison, who is, if I

1152
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 2: were to guess what, is probably involved mostly in the

1153
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 2: in the animated portion because she works at Annapurna where

1154
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 2: the animation took place, which we'll get to in a second.

1155
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like there were any women that had

1156
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 2: any say in you know, how this was made. Nor

1157
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: were there any Muslim writers, nor were there any Mexican writers,

1158
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 2: nor were their indigenous writers, nor were their black writers,

1159
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 2: and on and on and on and on and on.

1160
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 2: It was just these guys. So that logic does not

1161
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 2: it doesn't hold.

1162
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 3: Up, does it doesn't work work? And and if they

1163
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 3: were actually like poking fun at everyone, because these these

1164
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 3: filmmakers are only poking fun at already marginalized people and

1165
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 3: not like commenting on fucking billionaires and racists and like

1166
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 3: people who should actually be which which is like criticized

1167
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 3: for their behavior, and.

1168
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: Not that that's the duty of any like of all movies.

1169
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 2: You can have movies that are not like you know,

1170
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 2: explicitly anti capitalist and all this stuff. And this movie

1171
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 2: is trying to say something about religion, but it's just yeah,

1172
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 2: like as far as the stereotypes are deployed, it seems

1173
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: like just for shock value, Like definitely it has nothing

1174
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 2: to really do with the larger plot, which is like

1175
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 2: basically incoherent to me. It's just like it's mean, and

1176
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 2: it's lazy, and it's and it's it's a bit evil, definitely,

1177
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: and I read god, I read, I read an example again,

1178
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 2: read an example that so Evan Goldberg and seth Rogen

1179
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: also said that they consulted friends to make sure their

1180
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: equal opportunity offensiveness wasn't just plain offensive. Carmichael, who is

1181
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 2: not in this movie, but he's in neighbors another seth

1182
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 2: Rogen joint of this area, Drod Carmichael, told BuzzFeed that

1183
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 2: Goldberg would come to him to vet the movies more

1184
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 2: problematic content. Is this racist? Goldberg inquired on more than

1185
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 2: one occasion, and then Nico Lang says, in an industry

1186
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 2: where people of color continued to be stereotyped and shut out,

1187
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,759
Speaker 2: it seems that if Goldberg had to ask, he already

1188
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 2: knew the answer, which I think is an excellent point

1189
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: and it probably very true. I don't even want to

1190
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 2: say what it was going to be. But the Craig

1191
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 2: Robinson character, who is called mister Grits, which Jesus Christ,

1192
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 2: was originally going to be even more offensive. And the

1193
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 2: original version of the Craig Robinson character, which was just

1194
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: explicitly anti black like, tested very very poorly, and there

1195
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 2: was at the movie's original premiere someone I guess confronted

1196
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:44,759
Speaker 2: Zeth Rogan about it and was like, you can't fucking

1197
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: do this, dude, Like this is disgusting. But that's the

1198
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 2: only change that I saw an example of being changed.

1199
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: Everything else stayed as is, which again it's like what

1200
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:00,799
Speaker 2: if someone hadn't said something, and it's.

1201
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 3: Like and and that would just be out in the world.

1202
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 2: I mean, not that what is out, not that mystery,

1203
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 2: but Ris is doing anything, Like.

1204
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 3: It's just mean Levache, Like all of the every character

1205
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 3: fucking fire every I mean, it's like, there's no there's

1206
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 3: no like except for this character, which makes a ton

1207
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 3: of sense, Like no, no, pinous because you brought up

1208
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 3: Lyndy West, who is an activist against fat shaming and

1209
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:27,440
Speaker 3: fat phobia.

1210
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 2: And so just famously one of my favorite writers.

1211
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 3: Oh she's terrific. It just reminded me of how much

1212
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 3: fat shaming there is in this movie, where like the

1213
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 3: other food characters are fat shaming. Brenda the Bun another

1214
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 3: character I forget who it is, but says that people

1215
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 3: like humans are to blame for getting fat because of

1216
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 3: all the all the food they consume. Just like all

1217
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 3: this like horrible fat phobic rhetoric.

1218
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just bullshit like everything, like basically every word

1219
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 2: and this movie is bullshit and all and also like

1220
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 2: it upholds obviously, it upholds all of like all of everything,

1221
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: but even in a way that like I don't understand

1222
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 2: because it's it's like, this is a movie written by

1223
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 2: Jewish writers who are going with their ethos of what

1224
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 2: they say they're doing. We're not exempt either, but the

1225
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: main character seems like he's coded as like a white Christian,

1226
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 2: so it's like, right, so it seems like, oh, well,

1227
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 2: the white Christian hero fucking cis hot dog guy is

1228
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 2: still the most curious of everyone and like finds the

1229
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 2: truth and unites every culture. And it's like that's like,

1230
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 2: what is what are you doing? That's all movies like,

1231
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 2: that's like fucking I I I don't, I don't know,

1232
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 2: I like it. Obviously this movie makes no sense.

1233
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 3: Uh. Well, to piggyback on that, there's there's classic sexism

1234
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 3: happening with that too, because again, Frank is this character

1235
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 3: who's like, wait a minute, I'm a skeptic. Now I

1236
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 3: have to seek the truth, you literally, Bill Maher. Yeah,

1237
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 3: he sets out to make the documentary religulous, you know,

1238
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 3: and he's like, what's going on? But Brenda, his girlfriend,

1239
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: refuses to listen to Frank about the possibility that the

1240
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 3: great Beyond might not be real. And yes, he is

1241
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 3: being very condescending and patronizing while he talks about it.

1242
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 3: But one of the few female characters in the movie

1243
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 3: is presented as being irrational and overly driven by her emotions.

1244
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 3: And again, he's interested in seeking the truth. She's just like,

1245
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna, you know, blindly follow what I already believe.

1246
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 3: I'm not going to interrogate anything. And then she tries

1247
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 3: to like make him jealous. When he's like, well, I

1248
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 3: can't even have a rational conversation with you, She's like, oh, yeah,

1249
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 3: well I'm gonna go fuck a pickle.

1250
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 2: And it's just like, well, it's like also that there.

1251
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 2: This is like because they're like still in their package

1252
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 2: that's supposed to be this really like sophisticated metaphor for

1253
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 2: Virginia purity, but it's still more like so but you know,

1254
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 2: by the hot dog, but blah blah blah, like it's

1255
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: still more emphasized in the female coded uh, Like it's

1256
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 2: more important that the buns are never been used than

1257
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 2: the hot dogs. Which is ridiculous.

1258
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is gross. Also there's all this like

1259
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:45,879
Speaker 3: male gaze ye animation slash cinematography again, Oh my god.

1260
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 2: The shot where dude's just talking about like I can't

1261
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 2: wait to get inside this woman. Guarantee, these writers do

1262
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 2: not know how any of this would actually go. But

1263
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:01,560
Speaker 2: there's this like leering shot of like a cartoon while vagina,

1264
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 2: and you're like, why, yeah, why why why why we

1265
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 2: already have like oh, in case the vagina buns that

1266
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,720
Speaker 2: also have boobs and butts weren't enough for you, like

1267
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 2: got you, got you? Yeah?

1268
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:22,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's gross. Uh. I want to talk about

1269
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 3: the production and animation, Yes, specifically the way that animators

1270
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 3: were treated on this movie. I'm pulling from a couple

1271
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 3: of different sources. One is a Washington Post piece, one

1272
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 3: is a screen Rent piece. So there was this Q

1273
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 3: and a published on an animation news website called.

1274
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 2: Cartoon Brew cartoon ber Rocks.

1275
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 3: And so there's a Q and a with the two

1276
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 3: directors of this movie, Greg Tiernan and Conrad Vernon, And

1277
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 3: the comments section of this Q and a basically turned

1278
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 3: in who the animators commenting anonymously complaining about the working

1279
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 3: conditions on the movie, and so like that's kind of

1280
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 3: how this information came to be a public information. So

1281
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:20,560
Speaker 3: the animators complained about director Greg Tiernan, who runs the

1282
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 3: animation company Nitrogen, who handled the animation for Sausage Party.

1283
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 3: He runs it with his wife Nicole Stin.

1284
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 2: Also, unfortunately, we do have to claim that Sausage Party

1285
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: is Shrekian in that Conrad Vernon, one of the co

1286
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 2: directors on feminist masterpiece Shrek two.

1287
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, really quite Shrekian.

1288
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt your very important discussion of labor rights,

1289
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 2: but no, it's it's It's.

1290
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 3: Also true it's important to know when a show.

1291
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 2: When Shrek's when Shreks go wrong. Okay, but this is

1292
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 2: a very fascinating thing that has can I feel like

1293
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 2: it's a more popular discussion now, this seems like a

1294
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 2: more early example of it.

1295
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 3: Yes, So the animators were complaining that mister Greg would

1296
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:24,600
Speaker 3: have enraged outbursts. There was a lot of micromanagement of

1297
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 3: the animators and most despicably, a lot of labor that

1298
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 3: went unpaid because animators were forced to work overtime and

1299
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 3: would not be paid for it. Yes, I'll quote an

1300
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 3: excerpt from the Washington post piece. The production costs were

1301
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 3: kept low because Greg would demand people work overtime for free.

1302
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 3: If you wouldn't work late for free, your work would

1303
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 3: be assigned to someone who would stay late or come

1304
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 3: in on the weekend. Some artists were even threatened with

1305
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:02,919
Speaker 3: termination and for not staying late to hit a deadline.

1306
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 3: So basically, animators, if they wanted to keep their job,

1307
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 3: were forced to work over time for free. If they refused,

1308
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 3: they would potentially be fired. Many animators who worked on

1309
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 3: the movie were not credited as having worked on the

1310
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:22,759
Speaker 3: movie because many of them quit because of the horrible

1311
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 3: working conditions before the movie was finished, and anyone who

1312
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 3: quit was not credited even though they worked on the

1313
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 3: movie for like over a year. Also, when animators tried

1314
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 3: to quit and like put in their notice, executives at

1315
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:43,640
Speaker 3: Nitrogen would threaten to damage their reputations, which like is

1316
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 3: a pretty big deal because like getting blacklisted in this

1317
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:50,600
Speaker 3: industry is a real concern. Like if you get blacklisted,

1318
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 3: like it is really hard to.

1319
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 2: Fuck your career and they know that permanently.

1320
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 3: Yes, Like yeah, So the animators were just like treated

1321
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 3: horribly and because the animation was happening in Vancouver, and

1322
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 3: Nitrogen is a Vancouver based company, which is like outside

1323
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 3: of the jurisdiction and protections of the Animation Guild in

1324
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 3: the US, they like weren't protected. I did read that. Eventually,

1325
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 3: when Annapurna, which was like the production company that financed

1326
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 3: the movie, learned about all of this like labor mistreatment,

1327
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,759
Speaker 3: they stepped in. They made sure the animators were paid

1328
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 3: for their overtime, and they were like they made sure

1329
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 3: that the animators were being fed because a lot of

1330
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 3: them had to work these late hours in an area

1331
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 3: that was like difficult to get food, and so they

1332
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 3: like unless they brought their own food, they would have

1333
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 3: to work with like.

1334
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 2: No access to food.

1335
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 3: And like it's pretty standard for like especially on like

1336
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 3: film sets, for the production of the movie, to feed

1337
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 3: the cast and crew. Like it's not people's responsibility who

1338
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 3: work on a on a production to feed themselves.

1339
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 2: So this is so, like, this is I've I'm very i'mried.

1340
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,560
Speaker 2: I don't because you said you remember hearing about this

1341
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 2: time at the time. I didn't know about this at

1342
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:15,840
Speaker 2: the time, just because I love I mean, I work

1343
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 2: in animation. I love animation, and this is so this

1344
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 2: is like so I mean labor disputes are typical across entertainment,

1345
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 2: across everywhere, but like in animation specifically, it is like

1346
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 2: improved so little over the years that I'm glad that

1347
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 2: there was a settlement, but I'm also like, there's no

1348
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 2: excuse for someone as powerful as this group of filmmakers

1349
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 2: to accept making this a non union project like that

1350
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 2: is absolutely unacceptable. You can't treat your workers that way,

1351
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: and the reason you do is to save money and

1352
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 2: to mistreat them because like you're saying, like this, this happens, this,

1353
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 2: this has happened on animation shows that I've worked on,

1354
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 2: and I've only ever worked as a writer. But even so,

1355
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 2: it's like there's just still such an issue with how

1356
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 2: animation is treated within entertainment. Not that there aren't major

1357
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 2: labor issues in live action as well, but the unions

1358
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:13,080
Speaker 2: in live action tend to be a little stronger where

1359
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 2: you have SAG that represents uh animation performers as well,

1360
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 2: but not as often the WGA, who are it seems

1361
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 2: about to strike and I'm very thrilled, but the WGA

1362
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 2: still doesn't recognize most animation writers as writers that deserve

1363
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 2: union protections, like ridiculous it blows. Like I love to

1364
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 2: fucking run my mouth about this, but I've worked on

1365
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 2: six television shows, but I'm not in the WGA because

1366
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 2: I write in animation. It's ridiculous and like some are

1367
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 2: fucking high budget, Like why does writing on Star Trek

1368
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,640
Speaker 2: not qualify you for the WGA. It's fucking ridiculous, and

1369
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 2: it's there is very in animators, especially, I mean this

1370
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 2: goes back to like Walt Disney union busting animators, like

1371
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 2: during the production of like Pinocchio, Like this has been

1372
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 2: going back.

1373
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 3: This has been going on in animation forever, getting back

1374
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 3: to the Pinocchio Wars.

1375
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 2: Sorry, oh my god, I still have PTSD from the

1376
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:18,840
Speaker 2: Pinocchio Wars. But like there there's you know, animators have

1377
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 2: had to repeatedly strike and still have I would say,

1378
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 2: generally less protections than their live action counterparts, which is ridiculous,

1379
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 2: especially because animation has grown only more popular and more

1380
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 2: widely like every audience. It's it's like it was like, oh,

1381
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 2: you make Kitty TV, like you don't do it, which

1382
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:43,280
Speaker 2: is also ridiculous. But now it's like there's animation across

1383
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 2: the board. There's no reason that they shouldn't be treated equally.

1384
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: It pisses me off, and I'm glad that they got

1385
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 2: a settlement, but it's just like it's so transparent where

1386
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 2: and this we like sort of talked about this a

1387
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 2: little earlier, but how I think that like a similar

1388
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 2: dispute that you see right now is going on with

1389
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 2: the effects workers who work on Marvel movies, where there's

1390
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 2: only so many production houses that do this. They're desperate

1391
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,799
Speaker 2: to stay in the good favor of Disney and Marvel.

1392
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 2: It's always fucking Disney with this stuff. They want to

1393
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 2: stay in the good graces of these huge contracts, and

1394
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 2: so they'll work people to death and then like there

1395
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 2: this was an issue with a director I generally like,

1396
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 2: but Taiko yit when the last I didn't see it.

1397
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 2: When his last Marvel movie came out, he was like

1398
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 2: making fun of how the effects looked in interviews, which

1399
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 2: prompted employees to be like, you didn't like, Marvel did

1400
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 2: not give us the money or the time to finish

1401
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 2: this fucking movie. How dare you like? It's ridiculous? He

1402
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 2: sucked thor Love and Thunder was like, I didn't see it.

1403
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's like I was like Oh, well,

1404
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 2: you can't always trust rotten tomatoes. But I did trust

1405
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 2: Rotten Tomatoes on that one. Then I didn't see it. Yeah,

1406
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:07,599
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's just animation and effects. Workers are historically

1407
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 2: treated like shit, and it's so like there's no there's

1408
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 2: no excuse for anyone to do it, but particularly people

1409
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:19,120
Speaker 2: who are this powerful and have have access to the resources.

1410
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 2: It's not like we're an indie company and like we

1411
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 2: can only give you this much, which isn't acceptable either,

1412
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 2: but at least there's some context for it. There's no

1413
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 2: reason that this that a production of this level needed

1414
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 2: to mistreat their workers so much, and that sucks because

1415
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 2: then everyone had to work on sausage party like Okay, Well,

1416
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,560
Speaker 2: if you want to read more about labor rights in

1417
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 2: the meat packing industry and also then you should pick

1418
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 2: up a new book. It's out now. It's called Raw Dog.

1419
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 2: I learned a lot about how meat packing employees as

1420
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:03,160
Speaker 2: well as animals are soverely mistreated in the process. Where

1421
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 2: most grocery store hot dogs like frank are made. Also

1422
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 2: do some discussion of vegan hot dogs of kosher hot dogs.

1423
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 2: They're so the world of hot dogs is expansive. It's fast, fast,

1424
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 2: and vast and much, you might even say, and much

1425
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 2: like the animation workers' rights have not improved by very

1426
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 2: much over the last one hundred years. So that's fucking sick.

1427
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:32,600
Speaker 2: We love that. We love that.

1428
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 3: Do you have anything else you want to say about

1429
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 3: sausage Party?

1430
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 2: No, me either, it passes, it passes the vectl as

1431
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter.

1432
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. And the way women interact with each other,

1433
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 3: which is not often because again there's only really two

1434
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 3: there's one major female character in Brenda, and then there's

1435
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 3: a more minor character in Teresa. Other than that, any

1436
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 3: female coded characters have like maybe a line or two,

1437
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 3: and even that's rare, So most of the characters we

1438
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 3: meet are male coded, so there's really very little interaction

1439
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 3: between women. Although Brenda and Theresa do pass the Bechdel

1440
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 3: test because they talk about their sexual urges for each other.

1441
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 2: So right, and sure it counts, I count.

1442
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 3: But but but the way that women or like female

1443
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 3: coded characters interact with each other outside of that is

1444
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 3: like a lot of like the buns will be calling

1445
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:36,160
Speaker 3: each other disparaging like sexist words like oh you bitch,

1446
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 3: oh you skank, stuff like that.

1447
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we referenced this. But I guess the

1448
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 2: only other thing I have to say is the ableism

1449
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 2: that's present in the Michael Sarah character, and also that

1450
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 2: they suggest that he is disabled in some way and

1451
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,080
Speaker 2: that the only way that he could find a partner

1452
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: is to find another disabled partner, which how that plays

1453
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 2: out in the end, which is just I mean, like

1454
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 2: it feels worth me. I don't even want to get

1455
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 2: into it really because it's just so fucked and ugly.

1456
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 2: And this this movie is I agree with letterboxed. This

1457
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 2: movie is is evil. Yeah, I don't I don't want

1458
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,759
Speaker 2: to say another word about this movie. No nipples, don't

1459
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 2: you know.

1460
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 3: I would say negative five nipples and it's like a

1461
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 3: special lea their negative five.

1462
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 2: This movie is evil.

1463
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:29,959
Speaker 3: The last thing I'll say about it is it's especially

1464
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 3: frustrating to me when there there's a movie that's attempting

1465
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 3: to make commentary on some kind of like societal or

1466
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 3: cultural thing, because it is attempting to say things like

1467
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 3: having blind faith in a deity can be dangerous, or

1468
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 3: which sure, attaching shame to sexuality and making people feel

1469
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,759
Speaker 3: shame if they have sex, like quote unquote out of wedlock,

1470
01:29:57,040 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 3: or if they have sexual feelings toward someone of their

1471
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 3: same gender, the way that a lot of religions do

1472
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,840
Speaker 3: you know, saying that that's wrong, or taking a religious

1473
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 3: text and distorting it to push your own agenda of

1474
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 3: prejudice and oppression, that's bad. Yeah, I agree with those things,

1475
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:22,759
Speaker 3: but for the movie to try to make those claims

1476
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 3: and then turn around and put every reductive trope in

1477
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 3: existence into the movie and punch down to so many

1478
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 3: groups of marginalized people. Do you even hear yourself sausage party?

1479
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:39,360
Speaker 2: Anyway? This movie sucks.

1480
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 3: I hate it. Negative five nipples and buy Jamie's book.

1481
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 2: Please buy my book Raw Dog. By changing lattist we're

1482
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 2: gonna put we'll put the link for where you can

1483
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 2: buy it. I prefer to use bookshop dot org. That

1484
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 2: will automatically link you to the closest independent bookstore that

1485
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 2: you can order it from and habit shipped from that

1486
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 2: is carrying the book. And please tell your friends. It's

1487
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 2: really helpful and I'm very proud of it. And also

1488
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 2: if you live in the cities, let's see if I

1489
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 2: remember of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, Portland, Oregon, Boston, Brooklyn, Chicago, Chicago,

1490
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 2: and somewhere in Connecticut called the Mark Twain House. Those

1491
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 2: are the eighth places I will be going to promote

1492
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 2: the book. There will be events and we will link

1493
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 2: tickets as well because I will be leaving this week,

1494
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 2: so please please come.

1495
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 3: Out indeed and all the regular stuff. You can follow

1496
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 3: us on Twitter and Instagram. You can go to our

1497
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 3: Patreon aka Patreon and get access to two bonus episodes

1498
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:56,760
Speaker 3: every month, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes.

1499
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 3: This month of May is my birthday and we are

1500
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 3: doing Office Space and redoing Back to the Future because

1501
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 3: our first Back to the Future episode has audio quality

1502
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 3: that is not great and we have one of my

1503
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:16,799
Speaker 3: favorite movies, so I want to just do an updated

1504
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 3: version of the episode.

1505
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 2: You can check out our merch at teapublic dot com

1506
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 2: slash the Bechdel Cast if you are interested, grab a

1507
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:29,479
Speaker 2: little merch and hope to see you. Hope to see

1508
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 2: you on the road soon. Love you, bye bye.