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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's cabral All Talk here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking,

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Speaker 1: the markets have performed better when there is divided government.

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Speaker 1: The biggest pressure for physical stimulus is an off taking

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Speaker 1: cases Bloomberg Sound on the insiders, the influencers, the inside.

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Speaker 1: Biden has promised again and again to he will unite

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Speaker 1: the country's state government's control elections AFT in the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: I think that we can expect a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven f m h D two.

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Speaker 1: I'm grass sitting in for Kevin. So really, President Trump

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Speaker 1: makes an extraordinary attempt to overturn Michigan's popular vote. President

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Speaker 1: Like Biden's team is working behind the scenes to try

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Speaker 1: to get Trump's allies to end the transition log jam.

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Speaker 1: Georgia's Secretary of State will certify Biden's win in that

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Speaker 1: state today and the first sign in weeks of possible

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Speaker 1: movement on stimulus. Well, President Trump is making an astonishing

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Speaker 1: attempt to reverse Joe Biden's victory in the battleground state

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Speaker 1: of Michigan overrule the voters and subvert the results of

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Speaker 1: presidential election. The president is apparently trying to get Michigan

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Speaker 1: Republican legislators to ignore the popular vote, which Biden want,

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Speaker 1: and pick a slate of electors whoill award Trump the

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Speaker 1: state's electoral college votes. Joining me is Laurence Lessig, a

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Speaker 1: professor of law and leadership at Harvard Law School and

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Speaker 1: founder of Equal Citizens. Well, no state legislature has ever

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Speaker 1: attempted this so far, So I guess that says a lot.

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Speaker 1: What does the Constitution say that's led to this theory, Well,

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Speaker 1: the Constitution gives state legislatures the power to control how

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Speaker 1: electors are appointed, and many people, starting with the Chief

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Speaker 1: Justice Renquist, I, thought that what that means is the

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Speaker 1: legislatures have a kind of superpower that they can override

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Speaker 1: any other constraint and act whenever they want. So that

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Speaker 1: extreme view is even after an election, they should have

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Speaker 1: the power to pick a slate of electors that fits

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Speaker 1: with their view about who should get the votes from

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Speaker 1: their state. Is that correct interpretation of the Constitution or

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court's recent rulings. So it's not, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's not for two very different reasons. So the first

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Speaker 1: reason is the Constitution does give state legislatures special power

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Speaker 1: over selecting the manner by which electors will be appointed.

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Speaker 1: But it also gives Congress the power to say when

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Speaker 1: the electors have to be appointed, and Congress has said

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Speaker 1: when the electors have to be appointed that is election day.

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Speaker 1: So there's no ability under federal law for a state

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Speaker 1: to pick electors after election day, which is what which

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Speaker 1: is what would happen if the president is successful in

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Speaker 1: for example, Michigan. So that's point number one. Point number two.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court in the case I actually argued in

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Speaker 1: the spring about whether electors were free to vote their conscience.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court said, look, whatever the framers originally thought about

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Speaker 1: whether electors have discretion or not, democracy has overtaken it,

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Speaker 1: and today electors are constrained by what the people say. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, if electors are constrained to do what the

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Speaker 1: people say, then so too must state legislatures be constrained

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Speaker 1: to do what the people say. If the Framer's design

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Speaker 1: of creating a system to select the president not dependent

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Speaker 1: on somebody like state legislatures is to be preserved, so

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Speaker 1: then despite all that, is it possible that, let's say

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Speaker 1: the Michigan state legislators, President Trump is meeting with some

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Speaker 1: of them today, they say that they're going to do

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Speaker 1: this anyway, they try to do it anyway. Is that possible?

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Speaker 1: That's what's so scary here. You know, you can get

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Speaker 1: lawyers on who will tell you what the law is,

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Speaker 1: and I out you'll find any credible lawyer who would

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Speaker 1: say the law is different from how I've described it.

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Speaker 1: But this will not be decided by a court. This

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Speaker 1: will be decided by Congress. And so the question is

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Speaker 1: really if on January six, the day that UM Congress

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Speaker 1: will meet in a joint session, the Vice President opens

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Speaker 1: up the slates of electors, the certificates of the votes

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Speaker 1: of the electors. If he finds more than once late

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Speaker 1: for any state, Congress has to decide which late it's

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Speaker 1: going to count. Now, the law says and constrains how

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Speaker 1: these slates are to be counted UM, and you know

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Speaker 1: Michigan in particular, as a democratic governor. The law says,

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Speaker 1: if there's two slates from one state, then you take

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Speaker 1: the slate that's been signed by the governor. So that

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Speaker 1: would be the Joe Biden slate, But still you require

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Speaker 1: Congress to follow the law, and we could easily imagine,

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Speaker 1: given the kind of craziness that's going on right now,

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Speaker 1: that Congress, the Senate, um Vice President would think it

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Speaker 1: more important to follow their politics other than the law.

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Speaker 1: And if they do that, it's not quite clear what

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Speaker 1: could stop them. That is very scary. Now let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about Michigan, because the Republicans in Michigan,

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Speaker 1: even the ones who have been who are traveling to

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Speaker 1: the White House today, keep saying that there's no way,

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Speaker 1: there's no way in Michigan law that they could do that.

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Speaker 1: And the same thing was suggested in Pennsylvania. Are there

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Speaker 1: any other states where you know the Republicans are President

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Speaker 1: Trump might target in order to try this, Well, they're

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Speaker 1: basically five states that are in Joe Biden's column that

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Speaker 1: have Republican legislatures. Two of them have Republican governors, So

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Speaker 1: Arizona and Georgia have Republican governors and Republican legislatures, but Wisconsin, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania have Republican legislatures but democratic governors. So the

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Speaker 1: real states that the president should be targeting first are

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Speaker 1: the states where there's a Republican governor because of the

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Speaker 1: republican governor signed a Republican slate. Um, despite even despite

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Speaker 1: the argument I just gave you about why they can't

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Speaker 1: appoint in the late right now, you could see them

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Speaker 1: sliding by more easily then if the governor has signed

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Speaker 1: a slate that is not the Republican slate. But I'm

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Speaker 1: sure what's going to happen is that the President is

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Speaker 1: going to bring them into the Oval office. There'll be

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Speaker 1: some fancy lawyer from the Justice Department who sits there,

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Speaker 1: and that lawyer explains to them this theory, the superpower

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Speaker 1: theory about the legislatures, and they say, you're right under

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Speaker 1: Michigan law. Um, nothing tells you you can do this.

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Speaker 1: But the Supreme Court has said that state law does

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Speaker 1: not constrain the legislature. Um. You know, for example, Colorado

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Speaker 1: has a law that says the constitution says that the

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Speaker 1: electors are appointed by I vote. But the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: has been very clear that even the state constitution can't

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Speaker 1: constrain how the legislature decides to allocate its the electors.

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Speaker 1: So at least before an election, the state of Colorado,

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Speaker 1: the legislature could say we're going to pick the lectures directly. So,

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Speaker 1: so this is the theory they're going to try to

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Speaker 1: pitch to the to the Michigan Republicans and the Pennsylvania Republicans,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure every one of those five states, the

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Speaker 1: legislatures in each of those five states, and des by

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Speaker 1: so many of us have been working as hard as

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Speaker 1: we can to blow up the idea that this theory

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Speaker 1: has any basis in law. It's just pure power. It's

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Speaker 1: just a pure power move by people who can't accept

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Speaker 1: the fact that not only did they lose the popular vote,

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Speaker 1: they also lost the electoral college vote. You mentioned who

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Speaker 1: might be in the room when the president meets with

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Speaker 1: the Michigan Republican legislators, and Rudy Giuliani was actually supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the one in the room, and we've heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of strange interpretations of the law from him lately,

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Speaker 1: and yesterday he even said that the fact that two

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Speaker 1: of the people who were certifying the vote in Michigan

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Speaker 1: from the Detroit area, the fact that they had sort

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Speaker 1: of tried to take it back, meant that that vote

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Speaker 1: was subverted. Is that just planing, correct? Yeah? That's incorrect.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the ultimate question of whether Michigan's results get

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Speaker 1: certified is a function of Michigan law. But even if

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Speaker 1: they're not certified, if you've got electors selected from the

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Speaker 1: Democratic slate in Michigan signed by the Democratic governor, Congress

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Speaker 1: is still free to count them, even if they've not

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Speaker 1: been certified. So the certification earns them what's called a

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Speaker 1: safe harbor status, which means that presumptively Congress promises that

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Speaker 1: only if both houses vote against accepting the slate, they

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Speaker 1: will accept the slate um. But the argument that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the claim that because you don't get certified, the electors

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Speaker 1: don't count, is just just a mistake. It's it's certainly

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Speaker 1: not true. So can we breathe easier on I believe

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Speaker 1: it's December? When when the Yeah, so it's on December fourteenth.

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Speaker 1: They will vote um and and even if they are

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Speaker 1: alternative slates, both slates have to gather and vote UM

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Speaker 1: and so on that day we will know how many

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Speaker 1: slates of electors have actually voted, and will be in

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Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety for the next three weeks. If

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Speaker 1: in these critical states like Pennsylvania or Michigan, Um, we

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Speaker 1: see more than one slate of electors casting their votes,

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Speaker 1: because they're at least then capable of being counted, um,

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Speaker 1: depending on what Congress does. But if on the four

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Speaker 1: teenth you only see one slate from each of those

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Speaker 1: states that's voting, then I think we're almost in the clear.

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Speaker 1: There are still games that could be played, but be

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Speaker 1: very very hard to play. Well. Um, I guess we

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Speaker 1: have to watch each state as each state certifies then

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Speaker 1: and then we breathe a sigh of relief later on

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Speaker 1: each state. Five. But the real question is on the

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Speaker 1: day that the electors are to vote December four teens,

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Speaker 1: do more than one slate of electors from any state

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Speaker 1: gather to vote? And if only one slate votes and

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Speaker 1: that state has been certified, those are the votes that

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Speaker 1: will be counted. I can think that. But if more

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Speaker 1: than one slate gets together, you know, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: even have to be approved by anyway, they can just

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Speaker 1: gather and say we're the Republican slate from Pennsylvania and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna all right, we have to let it go there.

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Speaker 1: I won't be sleeping for a while, Thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: professor that, Professor Lawrence Lessing of Harvard Law School. Coming up,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about Biden an anti trust You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven m h D two.

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Speaker 1: I'm Drew Grasso sitting in for Kevin Surreally, Google, Facebook

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Speaker 1: another tech giants are likely to continue to confront dangers

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Speaker 1: to their dominant positions and diversification efforts given Joe Biden's election.

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Speaker 1: But how much will that be mitigated by the fact

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Speaker 1: that the Democrats so far have failed to gain a

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Speaker 1: majority in the Congress. Joining me is Jennifer Ray, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Senior litigation analyst. So, Jen, what does Biden meet

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Speaker 1: when mean without the blue wave that comes with it,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it means for for enforcement, the

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Speaker 1: activity that goes on at the Federal Trade Commission in

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice with respect to anti trust investigations, lawsuits,

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Speaker 1: verger review. I think that that that will become more vigorous.

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Speaker 1: I think it actually has been fairly vigorous during the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, and I think we should just expect that

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Speaker 1: to continue and continue to see these big tech platforms

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Speaker 1: getting investigated. The continuation of the Department of Justice as

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Speaker 1: lawsuit against Google. If the FTC suits Google in December,

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Speaker 1: as has been rumored, you know, a continuation of that

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Speaker 1: suit as well, and maybe other suits UM. And I

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Speaker 1: think that there could be more cooperation with some of

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Speaker 1: the states with those suits as well, because you have

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Speaker 1: a lot of Democratic state attorneys general that have been

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Speaker 1: doing their own investigation and are also talking about bringing

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Speaker 1: a suit. So to the extent that there's some cooperation

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Speaker 1: or work done to consolidate those matters, it may be

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Speaker 1: more likely to happen. With respect to legislation. I think

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Speaker 1: that's where the lack of the blue wave that some

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Speaker 1: thought might happen in this election UM impacts what goes

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Speaker 1: on in the antitrust world, because there really is UM.

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Speaker 1: There are some pretty significant proposals UM as well as

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Speaker 1: already written bills that are out there right now and

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Speaker 1: floating around in the House and the Senate. And we

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Speaker 1: expect more to come from the House UM after we

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Speaker 1: saw report via the Majority Staff UM in terms of

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Speaker 1: proposals for laws. And I think that the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Congress is closely devided means you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to have compromise in order to get anything passed and

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Speaker 1: moving forward and actually enacted. And what that means is,

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Speaker 1: you know, any of these proposals by the Democrats are

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Speaker 1: going to get watered down and they're going to become

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Speaker 1: more moderate than where they start. Alright. So, Jen, it

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Speaker 1: was often said, or at least felt, that the Obomba

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Speaker 1: administration was not that tough on tech and the Internet platform.

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Speaker 1: So why do you think that the Biden administration will

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Speaker 1: be different? You know, I think that they will be

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Speaker 1: different now because it's just for it's it's four years

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Speaker 1: later and things have changed. There's just a lot of

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Speaker 1: momentum right now in terms of going after the big

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Speaker 1: tech platforms and with respect to sort of a movement

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Speaker 1: um of thinkers that believe that they abuse their monopoly positions.

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Speaker 1: And I just don't think that that can be walked

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Speaker 1: back at this point. And I don't even think that

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Speaker 1: Biden really wants to. I mean, he hasn't said very much,

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Speaker 1: but some of the spokespeople for his campaign have said

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Speaker 1: that he's on board with all of this, that he

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Speaker 1: um you know, is thinking about anti trust reform and

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Speaker 1: is concerned about anti trust reform and does have concerns

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Speaker 1: about the way some of these big tech platforms conductor business.

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Speaker 1: So I think that we just see a continuation because

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Speaker 1: it's just sort of, uh, you know, a train that

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Speaker 1: can't be stopped at this point. Now speaking of trains,

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Speaker 1: about the train at the do O J the Antitrust Division,

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Speaker 1: So I assume we expect another head of the Antitrust

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Speaker 1: Division not making del Raheem anymore. How might that change

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Speaker 1: what goes on there? You know, in my view, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's going to change very much. I think

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Speaker 1: it'll be incremental and it will be incrementally tougher. The

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Speaker 1: anti trust enforcement will be slightly tougher. There's always been

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Speaker 1: this belief I think that a democratic administration is tougher

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Speaker 1: on anti trust and Republican administration, but if you go

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Speaker 1: back and look at statistics, it's actually not really case.

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Speaker 1: It's it's maybe on the margins, they're slightly tougher on

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Speaker 1: certain kinds of mergers. So I think a lot depends

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Speaker 1: on who biden a point um and who gets confirmed

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Speaker 1: to be the Assistant Attorney General in charge of anti trust,

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Speaker 1: because that person, you know, has a big role in

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Speaker 1: shaping policy and what they decided to do and how

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Speaker 1: they move forward is going to depend on whether that

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Speaker 1: person is a more moderate Democrat or a more progressive,

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Speaker 1: more activist Democrat, somebody you know who has views like

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warrens, who really believes these companies should be broken up.

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Speaker 1: Just because it's a Joe Biden, I would suspect that

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Speaker 1: it's going to be somebody who's more moderate. Um. But

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Speaker 1: even a moderate at this point, I think is going

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Speaker 1: to look carefully at these big tech platforms and is

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Speaker 1: going to continue these lawsuits that are getting started in

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration. So on that side, UM. On the

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Speaker 1: d O J side, I just see sort of a continuation,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little strengthening. The FTC side though could be

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Speaker 1: quite different. Um. And again that depends on who is

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Speaker 1: appointed commissioner. We have five now, and three of them

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Speaker 1: are Republicans. Now, the funny thing is that those three

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Speaker 1: Republicans don't have terms that end until the first one

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Speaker 1: in two thousand twenty two, and the other two even

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Speaker 1: after that, and they don't technically have to leave, so

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Speaker 1: theoretically they well they I mean they don't technically do

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Speaker 1: they normally leave? Yes, So it leaves the chairperson. This

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Speaker 1: is Joe Simons, m A Republican. Generally the chairperson leaves,

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Speaker 1: but he doesn't have to and he can't be um

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Speaker 1: fired by Joe Biden for political or policy reasons. So um,

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Speaker 1: and we have one Republican at least who said he

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Speaker 1: intends to stay and finish his term. That's Noah Phillips.

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Speaker 1: So normally what happens is if the chairperson stays, they

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Speaker 1: get demoted to a commissioner rather than the chairperson, and

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Speaker 1: one of the Democrats either becomes the chairperson or somebody

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Speaker 1: new is appointed to be the chairperson, and you flip

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Speaker 1: your majority three to two. So yes, June, probably the

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Speaker 1: majority will flip three to too, from Republican majority to

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Speaker 1: a Democrat majority. But you just don't know when. It'll

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Speaker 1: depend on when Joe Simon's decides to step down and

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Speaker 1: when somebody knew is appointed to replace him. But then

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Speaker 1: we don't know. Nothing is normal right now. So in

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Speaker 1: light of the fact that we see the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of different things, for example in the environment,

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Speaker 1: trying to push through regulations issuing permits, is it likely

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Speaker 1: that they might try to file lawsuits against Facebook or

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Speaker 1: Amazon or Apple before Joe Binds inaugurated. Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: have her. You know, there's been a lot of leaks

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Speaker 1: in the news about an FTC lawsuit against Facebook coming

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Speaker 1: in December. So yes, um, I don't think that there's

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Speaker 1: anything that that is political necessarily. I actually think the

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Speaker 1: timing is about right. I mean, when when the FTC

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Speaker 1: investigates a company and they've been investigating for over a year,

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Speaker 1: which is the case here, if they've decided that the

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Speaker 1: it in shows that there is anti competitive conduct that's

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Speaker 1: been going on, that then they bring a suit if

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Speaker 1: they think a suit makes sense and and so I

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Speaker 1: think the timing is right, and I don't really think

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Speaker 1: bringing it now before the changeover is political. I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard anything June about lawsuits against Amazon and Apple, and

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Speaker 1: I've always thought from the beginning of all of this

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Speaker 1: that to those two companies were at lower risk of

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Speaker 1: a suit than Facebook and Google. It doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: Democrats won't down the road bring them, but I don't

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Speaker 1: see lawsuits against either of those companies getting filed before

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Speaker 1: the inauguration on January twentie just about a minute here, Jen,

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Speaker 1: So have you heard any rumors about who might be

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Speaker 1: the next attorney general? You know, I haven't heard a lot,

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Speaker 1: though I have heard rumors that it's more likely to

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Speaker 1: be a moderate, you know, than than a progressive. Um.

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Speaker 1: I do know that Terrol McSweeney, who has been with

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Speaker 1: the d o J in the past and was an

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Speaker 1: FTC commissioner, is the advisor to Biden, and I think

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Speaker 1: might be on that list. Um she is. I would

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Speaker 1: classify her as a fairly moderate Democrat, maybe moderate to

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Speaker 1: slightly left. So that's one possibility. Um. We do know

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Speaker 1: that some of the advisors that he's using right now

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Speaker 1: to help him with these placements are mostly moderate Democrats,

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Speaker 1: and so the likelihood that it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: moderate seems pretty good. All right. Well, they also have

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Speaker 1: to think about the fact that it has to get

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Speaker 1: through the Senate, and if the Georgia runoffs go to

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Speaker 1: the Republicans, that's that's a problem for Joe Biden probably

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Speaker 1: is going to face a lot of problems with some

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Speaker 1: of the people he might want to put in as

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Speaker 1: Attorney General and have to go for a moderate. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, Jen, It's always a pleasure. That's Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Ree Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst. Coming up next on

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Speaker 1: Sound We're going to be looking at what President Trump

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Speaker 1: is doing right now, talking to Michigan legislatures legislators and

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Speaker 1: see whether or not there's a political reason that those

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Speaker 1: legislators might not go along with what President Trump wants

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Speaker 1: to do. I'm Jim Grosso sitting in for Kevin Cirelli.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. Why from our nation's can all

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Speaker 1: talk here in Washington, d C. Turns to President elect

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking, the markets have performed better

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Speaker 1: when there is divided government. The biggest pressure for physical

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Speaker 1: stimulus is an off taking cases. Bloomberg Sound on the insiders,

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Speaker 1: the influencers, the inside riding has promised again and again

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Speaker 1: it he will unite the country's state government's control elections

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Speaker 1: left in the constitution. I think that we can expect

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Speaker 1: a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition. This is Bloomberg Sound On

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Speaker 1: with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg Woman and one oh five

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Speaker 1: point seven f m h D two. I'm Jim Grosso

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Speaker 1: sitting in for Kevin Sarelli. Coming up, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about President Trump seeking to leverage the power of

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Speaker 1: his office today in an extra ordinary attempt to block

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Speaker 1: President elect Joe Biden's victory in Michigan with President Trump

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Speaker 1: calling some Republican lawmakers from Michigan to the Oval Office.

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Speaker 1: Michigan's top Republican lawmakers arrived at the White House this

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Speaker 1: afternoon to meet with President Trump and what many are

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Speaker 1: calling an attempt to circumvent the popular vote from the

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Speaker 1: election in Michigan. Here's Democratic Representative Debbie Dingle. Today, the

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Speaker 1: President is trying to I don't know what word to

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Speaker 1: call it is cheat his way to victory are crushing

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Speaker 1: local officials joining me for this hour are to guests,

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Speaker 1: John said, elitist geopolitical strategists at Trilogy Advisors and diplomacy

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Speaker 1: consultant to the State Department, and Kevin Walling, democratic strategists

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Speaker 1: at h G Creative Media. Welcome to you both. So John,

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Speaker 1: let me start with you. Debbie Dingle said she didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to call it. What would you call it?

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Speaker 1: This meeting that President Trump and is carrying and the

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Speaker 1: effort to keep going with this Michigan UM de certification

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Speaker 1: almost well, it's not just Michigan obviously. June. First of all,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me on your program this afternoon. UM,

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Speaker 1: it's part of a larger strategy that I think is

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Speaker 1: making it more and more difficult for President Trump to

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Speaker 1: explain to the American people that there's a serious pathway

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Speaker 1: to an electoral victory. And I think especially if you

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Speaker 1: look at yesterday's press conference, where there were many allegations

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Speaker 1: that were made about manipulation of votes, and you know

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Speaker 1: systems that were built by the Cubans and the Venezuelans

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Speaker 1: that involved servers in Germany. There are so many allegations.

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Speaker 1: It's a myriad of confusion. And I think the problem

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Speaker 1: for the president right now is that time is running

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Speaker 1: out because in the next two weeks, states will continue

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Speaker 1: to certify the outcome of the collection, and December eighth

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Speaker 1: is heart and fast, and I don't know that he's

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Speaker 1: got time, however legitimate it might be in Michigan or

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania or Wisconsin. Time is his enemy, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know that they have a pathway to his desired outcome. Kevin,

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Speaker 1: I just spoke to Professor Lawrence Lessig of Harvard and

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Speaker 1: he said basically that this is not a legal gambit

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Speaker 1: by President Trump. It's not possible under the constitution. But

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it may not be tried. How

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Speaker 1: afraid are you that it might be tried. Yeah, June,

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Speaker 1: it's good to be with you, and I'll pick up

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Speaker 1: where John just left off. It is a question of

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Speaker 1: timing for the president, and he is running short on time.

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Speaker 1: I think what we saw on that hour in forty

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Speaker 1: five minute press conference yesterday that John reference was you know,

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Speaker 1: wildly uh profused, with allegations of all kinds of wrongdoing,

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Speaker 1: but little on the evidence um that we've actually seen

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Speaker 1: entered into the court the President and his legal team

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Speaker 1: or something like thirty to one in terms of victories

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Speaker 1: in all of these key states that they're trying to

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Speaker 1: move forward. Uh in. And again to John's point with timing,

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Speaker 1: you know, you saw, for example, Georgia certified the results

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Speaker 1: today as the you know, Joe Biden is the president elect.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing Michigan, all eighty three counties have already certified

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Speaker 1: the results. So this invitation that you reference at the

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Speaker 1: top of the conversation, I don't think it's actually going

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Speaker 1: to move the ball down the field because these canvassing

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Speaker 1: boards have already certified the results on the local level.

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Speaker 1: So I think to the point that you raised, June

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Speaker 1: and it's a good one. Lawrence Lessig, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: comment here that this is all now a PR stunt

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Speaker 1: and further efforts to be legitimize the election in the

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Speaker 1: eyes of the American people, and to a certain degree

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Speaker 1: it is working for the president. You know, something like

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Speaker 1: two thirds of Republicans believe that the election is not legitimate.

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Speaker 1: So as this process continues and moves into this PR

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Speaker 1: stage that it has really only been and in the

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Speaker 1: weight to the election, Uh, it is successful in that regard,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of optics, but not in terms of

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Speaker 1: the legal these necessary to overturn the will of the

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Speaker 1: American people. Kevin, let me follow up on that, because

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Speaker 1: even if the president and his lawyers are losing in court,

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Speaker 1: what they could do in Michigan, if they convinced these

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Speaker 1: Michigan legislators to go with them, has nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with the courts at this time. I mean, it would

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Speaker 1: be it would be taken up by the courts on

431
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, on down the road. But right now, could

432
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: if he convinces them, couldn't he then have two slates

433
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: of electors or one Republican slate of electors going to

434
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, to be to Congress. Yeah, No, it's it's

435
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: a good point. I mean, I think the public just

436
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: isn't there. I mean, you know, the president ELECTO, but

437
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want Michigan with the marginal eleven times the

438
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 1: size of what uh Donald Trump won the election by

439
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: four years ago. And yes, it will become a competing

440
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: issue if there's two slates of electors. But you've already

441
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: seen some unwillingness on behalf of those two Republican leaders,

442
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: the Speaker and this Senate President, in their unwillingness to

443
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: overturn what the will of the people in their state

444
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: has been previous to this meeting. We'll see the President's

445
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: power of persuasion like we saw on display with those

446
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: two Republican canvas chairs UH previous to this. But again,

447
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: I don't think the will of the Michiganders and the

448
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: American people there to UH to appoint a different state

449
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: of electors that isn't reflective of the will of of

450
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: of Michigan voters for sure, John, I understand that the

451
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: Michigan legislators were greeted on their way to the at

452
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: the airport UH in Michigan with a lot of protesters

453
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: who were complaining, and that there's been a lot of

454
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: public angst, anxiety, and just anger about what it's seems

455
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: they're going to talk to President Trump about. Is that

456
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: enough to stop them or is the power of the

457
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: presidency and the persuasion that Trump may exert more important

458
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,239
Speaker 1: to them. I would say that it's something far more

459
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: important than both protesters and the president of the United States,

460
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: and that is, you know, something that goes to the

461
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: heart of our constitutional democracy. June, I think it is

462
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: very important, and you know, let the president exhaust every

463
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: legal option so that to Kevin's point, when this process

464
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: is over, however, many people feel today that this is

465
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: not this has not been a legitimate election. Hopefully, as

466
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: each state certifies and we come to agreement, we come

467
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: to recognize as as an American people that we do

468
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: actually have free and fair elections in the United States.

469
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely critical for the future of our democracy, that we

470
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: have a peaceful transfer of power and that the next

471
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: president is accepted by as many citizens as possible as

472
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: a legitimate president. So I think, and I don't know

473
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: these individuals for Michigan, so I can't speak to them personally.

474
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're thinking, but I have to

475
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: believe that most lawmakers in that position of responsibility will

476
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: do what the law says is the right thing to do.

477
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know enough about the Michigan laws here

478
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: to see where the president's arguments can be persuasive. But

479
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: I think, like so much that's happening in the public

480
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: arena right now, June UH. They can talk about allegations

481
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: and accusations and the like, but without evidence. The American people,

482
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: I think, will believe evidence, but if they don't see it,

483
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what rhetoric comes from one side of

484
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: the other, the president's supporters of the president's opponents. Without evidence,

485
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: these will largely be seen as baseless accusations, and I

486
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: think that damages the process in the weeks ahead. Okay,

487
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna agree completely with John.

488
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: And you're seeing some some fractures within Republicans on the Hill,

489
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Republicans on the state level. You saw the Georgia Republican

490
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: Secretary of State out there saying show the evidence. You know,

491
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: Chucker Carlson on Fox News the other night, UH asked

492
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: to have one of the Trump legal team folks on

493
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: UH and say, please produce the evidence. It's it's we're

494
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: getting past the idea and uh and John's point is

495
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: a very good one of you know, you gotta put

496
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: up or shut up. And these handful of AFID Davis

497
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: and things like that, voter intimidation, well, you know, they're

498
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: important to investigate, and I think to John's point, we

499
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: need to make sure that that Democrats, Republicans, independence across

500
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: the board have faith in our election system. But but again,

501
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: it's getting the point where time is of the essence,

502
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: and they have have failed to produce any widespread evidence

503
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: of this fraud whatsoever with it regards to voting machines,

504
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: changing votes, anything of the like dead folks voting in

505
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: massive numbers, any of this kind of stuff. You're just

506
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: not seeing that out of this Trump legal team, and

507
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: they're really grasping at trolls. Alright, coming up, we're gonna

508
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: be talking about more of those straw is that they

509
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: appear to be grasping at. And what we've heard from

510
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: the legal team as well as what President like Biden's

511
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: team is doing behind the scenes to try to get

512
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: Trump's allies to end the transition log jam. I'm June Grosso.

513
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: When you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound

514
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: On with Kevin Surley on Bloomberg and one oh five

515
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: point seven f m HD two. I'm June Grosso, sitting

516
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: in for Kevin CURRELLI. Georgia's top election official certified results

517
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: today showing that Joe Biden won the presidential race over

518
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Republican President Donald Trump. The certification brings the state one

519
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: step closer to wrapping up an election that has been

520
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: fraught with unfounded accusations of fraud by Trump and his supporters.

521
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: But here's Vice President Mike Penn speaking at to defend

522
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: the Majority rally in Kenton, Georgia today. I can tell you,

523
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: as our election contest can sin you here in Georgia

524
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: and in courts across the country, I'll make your promise.

525
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep fighting until every legal vote is counted.

526
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: I've been talking to John Citalitas, geopolitical strategist at Trilogy

527
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: Advisor and diplomacy consultant to the State Department, and Kevin Walling,

528
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: democratic strategist at h G Creative Media. Kevin, as long

529
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: as top Republicans, including the Vice President, say they're going

530
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: to keep waiting until every you know, legal vote whatever

531
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: that means is cast. Will this ever come to an end.

532
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: It's a great question, I mean, and again from our

533
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: our previous conversation, it's got to come to an end

534
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: very quickly. As you point out, with Georgia they certified

535
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the results today, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, the key other battleground

536
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: states that are in question all certify next week. The

537
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: best majorities of American people have already moved on from

538
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: this election and now want G s A and other

539
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: bodies to move forward in terms of this transition. And

540
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, if you're seeing you know, Senator Joni Arnest

541
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: Fresh offer kind of surprise reelection to some in in Iowa,

542
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: uh saying uh that you know, we need to move

543
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: forward with his president life and this transition needs to

544
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: move forward. You saw a really strong statement out of

545
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: Mitt Romney really tearing into President Trump in terms of

546
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: what he's trying to do with these local officials, these

547
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: local election officials. So again you're seeing these cracks. Will

548
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: see if they rise up to the level of Mitch

549
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: McConnell and Kevin McCarthy. I think they both are very

550
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: good at judging where the center of their caucuses, and

551
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: if you start to see, especially in the Senate, more

552
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: and more Republicans fearful of you know, you've got some

553
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: key Senate races that we can talk about two in two.

554
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Even though that you know, two years down the road,

555
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: it's never too soon to start talking about the next election.

556
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: So what right now, Let's finish this one first. You

557
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: c y a mentality in terms of covering you're behind

558
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: with some of these elected officials on the Republican side,

559
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: once you start to see some movement with them. We

560
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: saw some with Larry Hogan, with some of the actually

561
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: conservative governors coming out of a pretty successful call with

562
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: the National Governor's Association the President Life. So it will

563
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: reach a ground swell. Whether it is before the states

564
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: certified next week or after is only the question for UH,

565
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, what will actually move UH the G s

566
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: A and others to really start the transition in earnest So, John,

567
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: my question is whether anyone in those states that President

568
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: Trump is the battleground states that President Trump is fighting

569
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: to overturn the election results. Is anyone thinking about what

570
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: overturned the election results means for local elections there that

571
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: have taken place. For you, know for the Senate elections there.

572
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: I mean, if you just if the if the vote

573
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: isn't legitimate for the president, then it's not legitimate for

574
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: anyone else either. Well, I'm not sure I would look

575
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: at it that way June, because at least the president's

576
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: team has alleged that there are tens of thousands, if

577
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: not hundreds of thousands, cumulative ballots across these battleground states

578
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: that just had a vote for Biden on them, and

579
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: they didn't have any down ballot votes. And I don't

580
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: think anyone is really challenging what has been happening with

581
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: almost every other race. There's very few contested races right

582
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: now except for the presidential and in a few states.

583
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: But if I can add some historical precedents and perspective here,

584
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: I think it's also helpful to the discussion because in

585
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: two thousand, we all remember it took a little bit

586
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: more than five weeks, about thirty seven thirty eight days

587
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: to sort out the chad counting down in Miami Dade

588
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: and Palm Beach and Florida so that Florida could be certified.

589
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: And in ten remember there was a very strong campaign

590
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: by a number of people who were shocked by Donald

591
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: Trump's victories that we're calling for faithless electors to violate

592
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: the wi of the voters and the popular vote in

593
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: each state when it came to the electoral college, and

594
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: so we waited until the electoral college took place. And

595
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 1: I think that's what's going to happen here. June December

596
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: eight is when all of the states will have selected

597
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: their electors, and December fifteenth, the electoral college vote takes place,

598
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: and then the presidential contest is finished. And so unless

599
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: there are some significant legal challenges that almost every attorney

600
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: today is unable to see in the accusations that were

601
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: made yesterday in recent days, um, it looks like it's

602
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: going to be a clean electoral college selection process in

603
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: two weeks and then in three weeks the electoral College

604
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: will do its duty and then we prepare for the inauguration.

605
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: And I am confident that will it will be a smooth,

606
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: peaceful transition to power. But only after the electoral College

607
00:35:53,960 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: has done its duty on December, so can I go in.

608
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: And it's and it's good to have that historical perspective too,

609
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: But but I think that you know that the example is,

610
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: you know Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump at night. And

611
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: while there were some pockets in my party, uh that

612
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: that did not you know, couldn't fathom the fact that

613
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was successful in terms of three six electoral

614
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: College votes and winning the presidency just four years ago.

615
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: No one seriously objected or halted transition to take place

616
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: from the Obama administration and Trump administration. And that started

617
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: nearly immediately after that concession speech. And I think, you know,

618
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: when of the key things too, coming out of Florida

619
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: and the recount that we saw and actually it's interesting

620
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: to see Ron Klaine now as the incoming chief of

621
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: staff to the President elect, was the you know, the

622
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: leader of that effort on behalf of al Gore down

623
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: in Florida. But one of the key things that we

624
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: learned coming out of that extended that shortened transition rather

625
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: and they extended accounting of the ballots and Florida was

626
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: that it really hampered the incoming Bush administration, the Republican

627
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: Bush administration, in terms of you know, September eleventh and

628
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: really getting a sure footing when it came to national security.

629
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: And there are some parallels in terms of what we're

630
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: dealing with COVID on this national level, and how do

631
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: we distribute this vaccine. The great news of the vaccines

632
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: moving forward, something that should be credited to operational work

633
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: suite in this administration. So, you know, it's a bit

634
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: unconsfortable that that this administration is still holding up the

635
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: transition when we have so many issues we need to

636
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: tackle as part of this transition, most especially the COVID

637
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: nineteen crisis. All Right, both of you stay with me.

638
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: Coming up, I want to talk about that. I want

639
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: to talk about the fact that Joe Biden's team is

640
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: projecting this image of calm political is reporting that behind

641
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: the scenes, the advisors are in this midst of a

642
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: fierce lobbying effort to get Trump's allies to crack, and

643
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: they're dispatching emissaries from past administrations. Let's talk about what

644
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: can be done to to solve the log jam of

645
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: this transition. I'm June Brass. When you're listening to Bloomberg,

646
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: you're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surly on

647
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and one on five point seven f m h

648
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: D two. I'm Jim Grosso sitting in for Kevin Sarelli,

649
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: President Elect Joe Biden has been criticizing President Trump and

650
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: says that he's hindering his team's ability to get up

651
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: to date information on the coronavirus pandemic and to fight

652
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: the pandemic when he gets into office. Now, how Speaker

653
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi today criticize the Republican Party for what she

654
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: says is in action on pandemic relief legislation. We are

655
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: in a full blown economic and health catastrophe, and it's

656
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: amazing to see the patients the GOP has for other

657
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: people suffering. I've been talking to Kevin Walling, democratic strategist

658
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: at h G Creative Media and Johnson a leaders geopolitical

659
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: strategists at Trilogy Advisors and diplomacy consultant to the State Department. Kevin,

660
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: I'll start with you, is enough happening behind the scenes

661
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: to allow the incoming Biden administration to to fight the

662
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: pandemic and the way it needs to? Yeah, June, it

663
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: really hasn't. I mean, and you're starting to see. I think,

664
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, half a dozen or so Republican senators have

665
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: come forward, especially you know, I like this quote from

666
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio said that you know it would cause no

667
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: harm to be helpful to this transition, uh, you know

668
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: between the president elect and the Trump administration. I mean

669
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, the president elect can't call

670
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: Tony Fauci directly to run through what the plan is

671
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: and to discuss in any kind of details plan for

672
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: vaccine distribution until the g S A administrator Emily Murphy

673
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: releases uh that those funds and acknowledges the fact that

674
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is the president lest I think is a

675
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: dangerous thing. And we talked about this in the last block.

676
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: You know, one of the the main recommendations coming out

677
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: of the nine eleven Commission report was that abbreviated transition

678
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: between the Clinton administration and Bush administration, which which caused

679
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: the incoming Bush administration to be a bit flat footed

680
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: when it came to national security. We could see the

681
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: same process play out where a vax skey vaccine distribution

682
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: could be delayed for weeks four months because the Biden

683
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: incoming Biden administration hasn't been able to see what HHS

684
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: has come up with. The h S Secretary Alice is

685
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: ours saying my hands are tied. I can't speak to

686
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: the Biden team, and the Biden Harris administration team. Before

687
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, Administrator Murphy uh certified that she believes that

688
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: this election is taken place. Kind of silly because Tony

689
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: Fauci is able to talk to the media, so it

690
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: seems like it would not be much of a stretch

691
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: to have him talk to the Biden people. John, let

692
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: me ask you this. Biden has said he hasn't ruled

693
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: out legal action to try to force the hand of

694
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: the g s A administrator. Would legal action work here?

695
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: Do you think it's advisable. I don't know the answer

696
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: to that, because that could be a constitutional question UH

697
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: in play. But the g s A administrator serves at

698
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: the pleasure of the presidents of the United States. So

699
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: until he is determined that it's the right time to

700
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: proceed with releasing all the funds and making sure all

701
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: of the administrative openings are in place to provide for

702
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: the transition regarding staff and personnel, it's probably not going

703
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: to happen. And I think, you know, one of the

704
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: problems that we have here, June is that you know,

705
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: we haven't really touched on this, and the segment is

706
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: not enough time. But relations are so raw between the

707
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and the president, you know, dating back to

708
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: his campaign being spied on by the Obama administration, the

709
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: Russia collusion story, impeachment. There's just no level of trust

710
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: right now. And now you have a president who's who's

711
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: convinced himself that the election was taken away from him.

712
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: And and don't forget, he still has about ninety support

713
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: of Republicans within the party, and almost every other Republican senator,

714
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 1: a member of Congress knows that. So Kevin accurately notes,

715
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: I think they're about a half a dozen lawmakers Republicans

716
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: who have called for the president to open up the

717
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: transition process, but most of them are remaining very very quiet.

718
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: They are going to let the president make that decision.

719
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: And I think there's one more factor here, June, and

720
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 1: that is that they need the president to help raise

721
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: funds and to motivate voters. We've got the future of

722
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: the Senate at stake in Georgia with the two races,

723
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: and so if Democrats win both of those seats, then

724
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: you've got a fifty fifty tie in the Senate, and

725
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: Vice President Kamala Harris is a tidebreaker, and you've got

726
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: complete Democratic control. So the Republicans aren't just looking at

727
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: what's happening right now, but they're also making sure that

728
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: they're in a position to exercise some level of political power.

729
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: Come Kevin Treasury. Treasury Secretary Stephen Manuchin made a bid

730
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: to revive the stalled simulus talks with Congressional Democrats, proposing

731
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: the use of untapped federal reserve relief funds. And that's

732
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: the first sign in weeks of any movement on stimulus.

733
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: What's the likelihood that we're going to see stimulus before

734
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: the new and the new government. Yeah, it's a great question.

735
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: I mean, if that wasn't a motivating factor for Republican

736
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 1: Democrats heading into the election cycle, I don't necessarily see

737
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: it happening in the Lame Duck unless public pressure gets

738
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: behind some kind of effort. Um. You know, as you know,

739
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the benefits are based on the calendar

740
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: year in terms of unemployment, uh, student loan forgiveness, that

741
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: all comes up at the end of the month of December, um,

742
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, and actually benefits and I think the day

743
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: after Christmas to to some degree. Um. So unless there's

744
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: some public willingness to put pressure on this lane duck, um,

745
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't see necessarily than being more successful than they

746
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: were before the election, when the election should have been

747
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: a huge motivating factor. I know it was for sectary munition,

748
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: but they just couldn't get there in terms of meeting

749
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle with with with with a budget um.

750
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: You know, and you know, we'll see now if there's

751
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: added pressure on Speaker Polos, on Leader McConnell to come

752
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: up with the deal, but again without that election hanging

753
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: over them, that might not be enough to to push

754
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 1: them to do something. Aside from public engagement on this, John,

755
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: what's your take on the possibility of stimulus action. It's

756
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: tough to tell today because we don't know to what

757
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: extent there's urgencies being felt by the Senate and House leadership,

758
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: both from their members and from the general public. Re

759
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: call that there was some significant cracks and Nancy Pelos,

760
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: She's Democratic Party in October with a number of lawmakers,

761
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: including very progressive lawmakers, urging her to take the deal

762
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 1: from Manuchin that was very close to the two point

763
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: two or two point four trillion package that she had

764
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: put on the table, and Manuchin, with Trump's packing, had

765
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: gotten up to about one point eight one point nine trillion,

766
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: and it was really the Senate Republicans under Majority Leader mcconno,

767
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: who were steadfast about a five hundred billion dollars so

768
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: very targeted COVID relief build. So we lost that opportunity,

769
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: and we have deal breakers on both sides, right, So

770
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer absolutely want state and local

771
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: government relief, and you have a number of Republican red

772
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: state lawmakers who don't want to quote unquote bailout governments

773
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: that were profligate pre COVID. And then the Republicans want

774
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: a COVID liability protection. And you've got the trial lawyers

775
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: inside the Democratic Party who are adamantly opposed because they

776
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: see a number of lawsuit opportunities once you get past

777
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: these lockdowns. So I think those are going to be

778
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: some of the dealbreaker issues that make an agreement very difficult.

779
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: But I think in terms of the need for the

780
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: American people to see leadership on the part of their

781
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: Congress and to get relief where it's needed, because a

782
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: number of people millions, are in desperate need of relief

783
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: for a condition they have no responsibility for because of

784
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: these lockdowns. So I think a lot of it will

785
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: also depend on President Trump. I think it's very good

786
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: news that he's got Manuch in, Secretary Manuchin speaking to

787
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: I think Majority Leader McConnell and Republican Leader McCarthy today

788
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: along with White House Chief of Staff Meadows and see

789
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: if we can maybe get the groups to the table

790
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: over the next several weeks. In December, in addition to

791
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: the omnibus appropriations bill that we need to fund the

792
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: government through September, we also have some measure of a

793
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: COVID relief, larger than what the Republicans wanted, but smaller

794
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: than what the Democrats wanted. So, Kevin, just about a

795
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: minute and a half here, do you think it was

796
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: a mistake for the Democrats up to accept what they

797
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: could get in stimulus before the election. I think it

798
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: was a mistake for Republicans not to come up to

799
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: where we were. Just to rephrase the question as a

800
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: democratic strategist. But you know, to to John's point, and

801
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: it's a very good one. That will be interesting. It

802
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, Donald Trump has shifted to at

803
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: least some kind of legacy thinking, uh, maybe he hasn't

804
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: accepted the running on the wall in terms of the

805
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: election but he's clearly looking at his legacy with regards

806
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: to troop involvement in the Middle East and Arctic drilling,

807
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: for example in Alaska. So to John's point, this could

808
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: be an interesting legacy marker for Donald Trump. He was

809
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: very hands off deputizing Steve Venusian, the tragedy Secretary, under

810
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: the first kind of months of around three stimulus talks.

811
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see if the President gets more

812
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: involved with, you know, something that he can accomplish in

813
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: the final two months of his administration for the American people.

814
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: If that's the motivator for the president, if he wants

815
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: to actually move on this in a way that he

816
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: didn't before the election, that could be interesting as well. Okay, well,

817
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: what's going to be interesting coming up is what's on

818
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: our radar. I'm going to ask my two guests what's

819
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: on their radar coming up, and I'll tell you what's

820
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: on mine that's coming up next. On sound On, I'm

821
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to

822
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surley on Bloomberg and one

823
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: oh five point seven f M HD two. I'm June

824
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: Grasso sitting in for Kevin Surilli, and I've been talking

825
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 1: to Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at h G Creative Media,

826
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: and Johnson elitist geopolitical strategists at Trilogy Advisors. So it

827
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: comes time for Kevin's favorite part of the show. What's

828
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: on your radar? Kevin, What's on your radar? Yeah, June,

829
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: So what's on my radar is the fact that the

830
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: President life came out yesterday and said that he has

831
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: chosen his nominee for Treasury Secretary, that he'll likely announce

832
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: it sometime around Thanksgiving before just after Thanksgiving, uh, and

833
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: that he said that it would satisfy both moderate and

834
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: progressive wings of our party. I don't know who that

835
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: potentially could be. I don't think Jesus Christ could satisfy

836
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: a boy the moderate and progressive wings of the Democratic

837
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: Party when it comes to the Treasury sectary. But I'm

838
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: certainly interested to see. Uh. Interesting enough, I think the

839
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: Secretary of the Treasury maybe Secretary Defense, are the only

840
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: two positions to be held only by white men in

841
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: the history of both of those positions. Um, So I

842
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: think there's some pressure to to at least a point

843
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: a person of color, a woman, um to to satisfy

844
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, our party. UM. It will be interesting to

845
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: see who whoo he comes up with. That's that is really,

846
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 1: that is something good to keep on your radar, John,

847
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: what do you think about his about his pick? I

848
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: honestly cannot imagine who that might be. And I think

849
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: Kevin mentioned some very important benchmarks for qualifications beyond just

850
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: sheer talent and the enormity of the responsibility or what

851
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: are some of the other qualities that will be very

852
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: important to Democratic base. But I can't imagine who that

853
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: would be yet. So I think we're all looking forward

854
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: to hearing who that nominee will be. I'm looking forward

855
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: to a lot of nominees, but especially it will be

856
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:31,479
Speaker 1: interesting to see how diverse Joe Biden makes his cabinet. So, John,

857
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: what's on your radar? Well, I've always got to for Kevin,

858
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: if you'll allow me here, June. So, on the national front,

859
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: I think Thanksgiving we're going to see national pandemic fatigue.

860
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: I think so many Americans are just exhausted of all

861
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: of their restrictions and the mask wearing and the like,

862
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: and not that they'll stop wearing masks but I think

863
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: they'll they're asking lawmakers to let them exercise common sense

864
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: to seeing that the rates are falling. Most of the

865
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: cases are among young people. We have better treatments obviously now,

866
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: the hopeful promise of vaccines in the new year, less

867
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: hospital overcrowding, and I think going into Thanksgiving and then

868
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: Christmas and Hanukkah in December, I think people are going

869
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: to be surprised by the level of pandemic fatigue that

870
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: has set in across the country. Internationally, I think President

871
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: Biden and his administration will be far tougher on China

872
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: than most China China watchers believe. Right now, Silicon Valley

873
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: wants intellectual property protections, Democrats want human rights violations to

874
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: be called out, and Republicans want geopolitical expansion reined in.

875
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: But Joe Biden has got to be very careful. Shi

876
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: Jing Ping is going to come to him with the

877
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: sirens song of climate change cooperation, and I hope Biden's

878
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: team reminds him that the Chinese are building hundreds of

879
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: coal fired plants this year and for the next years

880
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: in China and around the world. China's climate claims are

881
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: foolish and lives. I'll leave it at death. So, Kevin,

882
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: I want you to respond to the to the pandemic fatigue,

883
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: because I know I'm feeling pandemic fatigue, but I'm also

884
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: feeling more fear lately with all the various predict you know,

885
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: predictions about how bad it's going to get. So what

886
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: do you think about the pandemic fatigue? Yeah, dude, it's

887
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 1: definitely you know, the John's point of delicate balance. There's

888
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: certainly fatigued that everyone is feeling. There's a lot of

889
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: distress with not being with relatives for for the holidays.

890
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: But we also saw a week in which every day

891
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: we're seeing a hundred and fifty a hundred and sixty

892
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: thousand new infections. We've crossed the quarter one quarter million

893
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: mark with death um. So it is good news that

894
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: vaccines are on the way. It is good news that

895
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: the death rate is going down, but the infection rate

896
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: is out of control, rising in every single state. And

897
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: it is that delicate balance when the CDC says do

898
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: not travel for Thanksgiving. Uh, you know, I think we

899
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: all need to take that seriously. Uh. It is good

900
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: that hospitals and clinics are are better able to respond

901
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: because they've had more time studying the co more abilities

902
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: of of COVID nineteen. But again, it's still a very

903
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: very dangerous time for this country, I think too. I

904
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: think John makes a good point on the China front.

905
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: I do think. And we have to remember Vice President

906
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: Biden and Vice President g came up together at the

907
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: same time, so there's a familiarity there between the two

908
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: of them. In the last one of the last Democratic debates,

909
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 1: you saw then Vice President Biden, now President like Biden

910
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: go really hard on the human rights front with the

911
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 1: weaker's ethnic wakers in China. So I do think John

912
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: makes a good point in terms of accountability from the

913
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 1: Biden Harris administration. All Right, and I'll tell you what's

914
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: on my radar. It's this eleventh our regulatory race. The

915
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: Trump administration rushing to issue permits, finalized major environmental regulations,

916
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: and this week even saying opening the rights to drill

917
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: for oil in the Alaskan Wilderness before inauguration day. And

918
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: I am looking to see whether they can actually accomplish that.

919
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: There's such a tight timeline they'd have to keep to

920
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: in order to get those drilling rights actually to get contracts,

921
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: leases for those drilling rights. And then there are so

922
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: many things that the Biden administration can do after inauguration

923
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: to discount those two to just take them back basically.

924
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 1: So my point, I don't really understand one thing. Why bother?

925
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: Why bother with this last minute pushed to sell drilling

926
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: rights in the Alaskan Wilderness? So John, I ask you

927
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 1: why bother? Again? If we use historical precedent, we'll see

928
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: that there have been many instances June where outgoing presidents

929
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: use the last weeks of their administration to use the

930
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: power of the executive order to implement a number of

931
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: policies that were either too controversial which they couldn't get

932
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: passed through the legislature during the course of their administrations.

933
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: And part of this may also be UM maybe a

934
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: personal peak, in other words, giving UH the president elect

935
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: a number of issues that he would have to undo

936
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: at potential political cost. He would have to explain why

937
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: policies that could be seemingly popular despite the technical aspects

938
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: and the difficulties that you mentioned, but having to roll

939
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: them back and explaining it complicates the incoming administration's policy portfolio.

940
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: And UH and Kevin, what's your take on the regulatory rush. Yeah,

941
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very good point by John in that,

942
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: you know, I viewed through the lens of the true

943
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: patrols in the Middle least, it's far more difficult to

944
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: send troops once they returned home to a spot than

945
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: it is to keep them there or in augment troop

946
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: strength in those different regions. So I've I viewed through

947
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: that lens, is that that's much more difficult, I think

948
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: than the regulatory that. You know, folks you know listening

949
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: often don't understand, you know, the regulatory nuances of federal

950
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: lending policy. Um, they certainly do with sir listen to Bloomberg,

951
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: but the general republic necessarily doesn't understand that. But they

952
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: do understand troop movement, and if those troops are brought home,

953
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: it's far going to be far more difficult to send

954
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: them to that region again when when they're necessary issues

955
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: that have come up that we that we need that

956
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: strength in the region. All right, Well, there's a lot

957
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: to watch in these days before the next administration comes in.

958
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: Thank you both for spending this hour with me. That's

959
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at h G Creative Media, and

960
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: Johnsonalitas geopolitical strategists at Trilogy Advisors and diplomacy consultant to

961
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: the State Department, and as far as those drilling leases

962
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: are concerned, while Biden officials can unwant many Trump rules

963
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: of going to consume time and resources even as the

964
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: incoming administration intends to write new measures regarding pollution, energy efficiency,

965
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: and drilling regulations. So in fact, it may take years

966
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: before the Biden administration can unwind some of the deregulation

967
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: that the Trump administration has put in place to take

968
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: away what the Obama administration put in place. That's it

969
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: for this edition of Sound On. I'm June Grass. I've

970
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: been sitting in for Kevin, so really, Kevin will be

971
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: back with you on Monday evening when I wish all

972
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: of you a great weekend. Take care. This is Bloomberg