WEBVTT - From the Vault: Dune Technology 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:07.560 Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.840 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.560 The vault lies open, and inside the vault this time 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:18.440 I see not just avoid but a planet on the darkness, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.520 the planet Iracus, Dune itself. We're going back to our 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.479 classic Dune episodes. These were some fan favorites back in 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.480 the day. So there were two episodes on Dune we did. 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.600 We did uh episode about the technology of Dune in 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.160 an episode about the biology of Dune back in September 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.320 and October. So this is going to be the first 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.000 episode of our Dune revival. This this one originally aired 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:48.239 on September and it was called the Science of Dune Technology. Right, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.599 one of the main focuses in this episode is going 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:52.479 to be the still suit. These are, of course the 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.320 water reclamation suits that you see in the movie adaptations 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.600 and of course appears in the original nine book by 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.160 Frank Herbert as well. Right, Robert, are you ready for 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.759 another Dune movie or you just pretty satisfied with our 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.440 with what exists now? I am satisfied with what we 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.040 have now, but I am all in on a new 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.920 vision a new cinematic vision of of the Dune universe. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.720 Listeners out there, I've got homework for you. If you 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.360 have never seen David Lynch's Dune, or if you have 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.600 seen it, either way, you should go watch David Lynch's 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.160 Dune and just take notes on all the scenes that 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.680 have a pug in them. There's a pug, a royal pug. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.560 I don't think the pug was in the book. I 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.280 don't remember anything about a pug. Maybe in the sequels. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.680 Are there are there pug sequels? They should do one. 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.360 They should have like the pugs of House of Tradees. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.400 That would be a wonderful focus for for one of 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.960 the prequel novels. But in David Lynch's movie, there is 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.280 totally a pug in several scenes, like sometimes he's sitting 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.320 in Karl McLaughlin's lap. Sometimes Captain Picard is about to 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.000 run into battle on the planet Iracus and he's just 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.800 gotta do He's got a pug in his arms. Dune pug. Yeah, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.960 it's just one of the mini wonderful visual features of 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:06.720 that film. An imperfect adaptation. But I am I am 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.799 not the sort of Dune fan that can completely hate 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:15.960 upon film adaptation I will kill him. Yes, all right, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.000 Well it's a long episode, so without further ado, let 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:25.520 us enter the vault. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:42.160 Mind from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, this is Edric, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.800 your gul navigator speaking, just letting you know that we've 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.600 begun our approach to a minimal safe departure for our 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.720 one way John to the planet Oracus. This is, of 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.200 course just a precaution, as the Spacing Guild currently holds 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.960 an impeccable record of Holtzmann enabled space fabric distortion travel. 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.520 And as always you can rest assured that no thinking 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.840 machine has taken your lives. It's care, but rather the 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.760 President Lunge augmented powers of the human mind. So set back, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.480 enjoy our in flight presentation of maud By conversations, and 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:30.000 our flight attendants will check in with him shortly. Hey you, 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.760 welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.720 Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and uh, I want 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.480 to thank a musician or Raleigh porter for that bit 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.160 of music there. That's the laxo off his two thousand 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.680 eleven album Aftertime, released by Subtext Recording, and you'll find 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.120 a link on the landing page for this episode to 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.720 learn more about that work. But it's the title of 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.920 this episode and our our intro narration. Um UH Presents 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.000 were of course talking about the Done universe in this 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.400 week's episodes, so we've probably heard us talking about Dune 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.560 on recent episodes of the show. I've mentioned several times 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.920 that I've been reading it. I finally finished reading it. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.720 I loved this book. Yeah, I'm about halfway through my 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.960 my reread of it, and this I think this will 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.200 be the third time I've read it, and it's it's 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.760 a book that has a special place in my heart 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.679 as well. It's very strange to me that a book 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.320 written fifty years ago. That's one of the reasons we're 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.560 doing this is that this year in it's the fiftieth 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.440 anniversary of the publication of Dune, that a book this 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:36.600 old can feel so fresh and imaginative. So much science 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:42.039 fiction is disturbingly familiar when you when you go to it. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.240 I don't know. When I went into the world of Done, 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.880 I was constantly surprised by what I encountered. Yeah, it's 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.760 so unlike, you know, anything that had come before it, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.360 and and and unlike even though it's it's had a 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.080 huge impact on the genre. Um, there's nothing quite like 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.440 it to this day. I mean it's, uh, you have 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:04.480 this space age feudalistic society and it's full of you know, 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:09.080 you have profits, you have fabulous creatures, you have strange science, 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:14.120 strange technology that's changing the shape of life. Yeah. So 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.880 to describe the influencer in terms of the influenced, a 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.520 young person approaching done today might want to think of 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.920 it as sort of like Game of Thrones in space 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.720 because a lot of political intrigues, Yeah, but also with 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:32.120 with a lot of philosophical commentary. And I have to say, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.640 this is the most ecological novel I've ever read. I've 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:40.040 never read anything as concerned with ecology and the conservation 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.400 of resources. Yeah, A tremendous amount of thought went into 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:48.080 the creation of this, this alien ecosystem, an alien ecosystem 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.680 that is not only intrinsically interesting, but but plays an 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.200 enormously important role in the plot. Right, So we're gonna 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.560 do two episodes about the science of Dune, talking about 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.080 the world of imagined by Frank Herbert In in his 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.720 novel Dune and in the larger Doune universe, but then 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.039 also real world parallels to this science and how Doone 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.080 has influenced science fiction. Yeah, so we're gonna be discussing 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.520 some of the science fiction, some of the actual science. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.080 But one of the reasons that they the sci fi 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.839 aspects of Frank Herbert's done, you know, continues to resonate 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.920 so well is, first of all, it's set tremendously long 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.520 period of time in the future, and he does a 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.320 great job about giving me some details but leaving a 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.880 lot of the details a bit ambiguous and unexplained, and 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.680 you're just sort of left to fill in fill in 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.919 the blanks in your own mind, right, and if you 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.640 know how sci fi fans work, they will fill in 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.599 those blanks. Yes. So two of our primary resources here 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.719 um are, first of all, a fabulous new publication titled 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.839 The Science of Doone, edited by Kevin R. Grazier, ps PhD. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.760 It's an unauthorized exploration into the real science behind Frank 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.000 Herbert's fictional universe. And it's a series of essays all 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:04.920 all you know by experts in their in their field, planetologist, cosmologists, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.080 et cetera. It's a fabulous book. We'll have a link 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:09.720 to where you can pick up a copy on the 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.280 landing page. For this episode, we also doug in a 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.040 little bit into the Dune Encyclopedia, which came out in 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.080 It's long out of print, but there are used copies 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.160 out there available for purchase. And this was compiled by 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.160 Dr Willis E. Nick and Nelly and uh. This also 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.000 involved a number of different freelance writers and U and 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.600 some scientists weighing in on not only the science potential 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.360 science underlying the details of Herbert so a Universe, but 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.800 also some of just the cultural aspects as well. Right, 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.400 it's got recipes for frem and flatbread. Yes, I was 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.320 you pointed that out yesterday, and I was very fascinated 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.760 by the top of They're also lyrics to songs. There's 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.040 as well as some uh, some some science into how say, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.920 you know, sandworms or face stand answers may have worked. 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.520 You know, thinking about the recipe for frem and flatbread, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.400 I wonder why the fremen would cook anything, because cooking 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.200 is almost always the cause of much evaporation and loss 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.800 of moisture. Well, perhaps they have a special oven like 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.680 a still of and that captures all that moisture. Yes, 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.040 so they seal off the kitchen and no moisture can escape, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.800 and then you can cook. Yeah, indeed, that makes sense. Now. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.680 I also just wanna don't want to preface here too 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.600 that they were dealing primarily with the nineteen novel Dune, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.680 with some discussion of details that may pop up in 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.400 Frank Herbert's later novels. We don't really get into any 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.079 of the more recent works by by Brian Herbert. Brian 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.600 Herbert is, of course the son of Frank Herbert, and 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.520 he continued the saga, did some prequels in a number 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:53.080 of Legends of Dune books with with his collaborator, But 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.760 I have personally not read them. I know a lot 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.920 of people enjoy them, so um, Yeah, we would love 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.439 to hear from anyone who who has read those books, 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.560 who has additional information they want to share based on 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.360 their enjoyment of that sort of continued universe. Right, But 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:09.679 these two episodes we're doing are going to be primarily 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.880 the first novel, Dune, and then our wonderful supplementary materials. Yeah, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.520 the kind of stuff that I think for the most part, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:17.920 people even who haven't read the book, might be familiar 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.400 with from either the Of course, the David Lynch film adaptation. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.720 Oh and we got to talk about that. Oh yeah, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.440 the Sci Fi Channel mini series from several years back, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.600 or just sort of the general cultural residents of the series. Um, 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:34.920 and we're gonna try and make sure it's not too deep, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:36.920 so if you have little or no understanding of the 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.120 Done Universe, will hold your hand through the stands. So 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.160 we mentioned it's going to be a two part episode. 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.359 This first episode today is going to be about primarily 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.560 the technology of the Done Universe, and then the next 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.720 episode we do or we're going to try to focus 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.600 on the organic components, the biology and the ecology of 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.880 the Done Universe. But before we get into the meat 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.800 of today's episode, I think we should just give a 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.800 very very brief cursory plot synopsis to people who haven't 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.360 read the book but want to be able to have 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.840 a basic idea of what's going on. So what happens 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.920 in the novel Dune, Well, essentially you have a space 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.280 opera in which you have a galactic civilization spread across 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.000 various planets right right, and there is one precious key 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.240 resource in the universe that everybody wants and sort of 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.560 controls all trade, and that resources, the spice milange. It 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.120 comes from one planet in the entire universe, and that 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.800 planet is a raucous also known as Dune. Yeah, it's 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.440 the stuff that really makes uh, ultimately travel between planets possible. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.880 It makes the interplanetary economy possible. So everything is hinging 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.040 on this one precious commodity. It's kind of the It's 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.440 essentially the oil of the done universe, right, and you 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.679 can't get it anywhere else. So the characters that come 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.200 in on the story that there are two main houses 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.199 in the story. There's House of trade Ees and his 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.720 House Harconan. The Tradees are it's it's kind of manniche 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.480 and I guess the Tradees are the good guys and 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.480 the Harconan's are very very bad guys. Yeah, but I 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.480 mean the Hardconans are they're they're they're a product of 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.719 the environment to to a certain extent, but yeah, they're 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.200 they're pretty villainous. Yeah, And they are essentially competing for 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.400 control of the planet that produces spice. And there's a 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:29.280 lot of warfare and backstabbing and treachery and double crossing 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.800 and and tests of loyalty, but ultimately the main thrust 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.680 of the story is the adventure of Paula Tradees, the 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.679 young son of House of Tradees, and his mother Jessica, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.160 while they're learning how to live on the planet Dune 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.559 and eventually participating in a journey of cosmic discovery and 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.800 revenge and drugs. Like at the heart, it's such a quintessential, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.520 like nineties sixties product, right, because it's about a young 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:02.240 man who takes an allucinage and and h then saves 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.840 the calaxy. You know, I never thought of it that way, 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.920 but that's that's pretty much right. We'll get way more 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.400 into the drugs in the second episode. But today we 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:18.160 wanted to talk about the technological theater of the Dune universe. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.000 And I think one of the coolest concepts that's created 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.480 in the book that that Frank Herbert comes up with 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.559 is the idea that this is a future scenario without 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:33.040 computers or robots. Right, yeah, it is a post Buttlerian 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:38.200 jihad world. Uh So, basically, imagine that the singularity has occurred. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.640 We have thinking machines everywhere that are caring for is 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.720 looking after us more of I tend to interpret more. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.800 It's like the beneficial aspects of of a post singularity 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.800 world in which your computers are not like you know, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.959 enslaving you and making you were working their salt minds, 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.520 but they've just become such a ubiquitous aspect of our lives, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.960 and eventually humans rebel against that. Yeah. So there is 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.080 in the past of this universe a great war against 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.200 the machines, and it's it's referred to, as you said, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.640 by the name the but Larry and Jihad from the 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.240 name Butler, but Larry and Jihad. And I like the 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.000 idea that it invokes the concept of jihad. So it's 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.120 not just like in the Terminator movies where there is 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.920 a war for survival against the machines, or maybe like 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.199 you might find in the Matrix or something like that, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.079 the machines take over, they decide they want to kill 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.120 us or enslave us, and we fight back. There is 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.360 there is that element, I think, but there is also 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.200 a deeper, more spiritual element, which is where the concept 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.800 of the jihad comes in. It's a physical struggle, but 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.920 it's also a spiritual struggle for the soul of humankind. Yeah. Indeed, 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.200 like some of the Herbert Frank, Herbert himself didn't really 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.400 give you a lot of details on you left it. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.640 You know, like a lot of the details in the 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.640 universe a little ambiguous, and you're helping. You left to 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.880 sort of um, you know, dwell on the philosophical implications, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.559 but just a few quotes from the fictional tombs such 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.480 as the Orange Catholic Bible that play a prominent role 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.319 in the universe. Thou shalt not create a machine in 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.040 the likeness of a human mind. Thou shalt not disfigure 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.480 the soul. And then this is a great line from 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.680 some of the appendix material uh in novel. Then came 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.080 the but Lerrian Jihad, two generations of chaos, the god 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.440 of machine logic was overthrown among the masses, and a 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:33.440 new concept scept raised man may not be replaced. I've 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.760 been thinking a lot about this, um just in my 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.800 daily life, you know, about not even with like thinking machines, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.440 but just the use of Facebook in your daily life, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.040 you know, the the use of social media, the use 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.040 of all these gadgets. And so for me, when I 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.080 think of this spot Lerrian jihad, it's it seems as 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.560 much rebellion against that as it is against you know, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.280 some robot with a with a laser gun. Sure, and 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:01.720 it's not unusual for our technology change us, right, I mean, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.360 it doesn't just make our lives easier, it changes the 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.680 way we we prioritize things and the way we we 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.520 go about our lives. One way of looking at this 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.080 might be something like agriculture. I mean, that's a technology 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.360 that I think a lot of people would argue fundamentally 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.200 change the human animal Homo sapiens is not the same 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.560 anymore after we invented agriculture. And you could probably look 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.160 at the rise of thinking machines, of computers and perhaps 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.880 the same way it is changing us in a very 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.080 fundamental way. I mean, who knows what that look like 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.880 ten thousand years in the future, as as the done 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.800 universe imagines, But it's doing something to our brains. When 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:47.280 we can have vast computational power, vast power of storage 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.640 of information, and as imagined by this sort of singularity, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.520 future decision making power that we can outsource two machines. Yeah, 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.280 I just think of all the things we outsourced already, 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.880 all the things we no longer bother to remember because 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.560 the machine remembers it for us. So yeah, like you said, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.680 your your interpretation of this coming in I agree with 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.560 this about the butlerry and jihad having something to do 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.480 with the way humans are changed by our dependence on machines. 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.360 So either way, we end up with a situation in 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.560 these these books, in this world where we've kicked out 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.000 the computers. We kicked out humans one, the humans one. 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.240 But now all the humans have to do all the 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.360 things of the machines were doing beforehand. So what do 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.960 you do when suddenly, uh, you know, just think about 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.400 a business, so you can't depend on accounting software anymore, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.400 you need what do you do? You have to turn 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.840 to the human mind to deal with all that accounting. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.120 What do you do when it comes to navigational concerns? 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:41.920 I mean, even in our own lives will become dependent 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.080 on these uh like things like Google maps and ways 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:46.320 right to tell us how to get from point A 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.800 to point B. If we throw that out the window, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.080 suddenly we have to look at maps. Suddenly we have 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.080 to know which way is north and south. It falls 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.160 to the human to know how to navigate. Yeah, and 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.200 it gets even tougher of course when you're in space. 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:04.240 So without the aid of advanced computer computation, um, they 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.480 have to turn to human capabilities uh and they have 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:13.760 to essentially breed and train uh special classes of humans 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.720 to to to take on these varying taxing tasks. Right, 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.240 and so some of these classes that you encounter in 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.560 the Doune universe, well, one of them, the most straightforward 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.720 upgrading of the human mind to replace computers would be 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.440 the mentats. There are several characters in the book who 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:37.119 are explained to be men tats. And this is pretty 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.920 straightforwardly a human computer. It's a person whose mind has 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.720 been trained and I think in some ways stimulated by drugs. Yeah, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:51.160 they're constantly consuming some variation with some wine type eli 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.399 SATs sort of supercharge them. It's kind of like a 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.000 red buy. Yeah. It talks about their purple stained lips. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.199 And these mentats really do in some ways fulfill the 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.840 function of computers. And otherwise they're sort of like advisors. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.760 They're they're sort of the perfect computer human hybrid. They 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.159 can do computation, they can store vast amounts of information. 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.120 They seem to pretty much remember everything like that. They 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.239 do not ever forget any details, or at least as 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.960 far as I can tell from the first novel um. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.160 But then also they they are attuned to human nuance. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.200 It's something that's not true the computers today. They might 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.320 be more replacement for the kind of you know, superhuman 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:36.399 artificial intelligence that we imagine in the post singularity world. Yeah, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:37.959 and it's interesting too that they have kind of an 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.640 ethical guideline to them. And if you want one that's twisted, 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.800 you have to Essentially, it's like a jail broken iPhone. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.640 I want to order a sociopathic mentap Yeah, in that case, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.920 you have to go to the Relaxa and they will 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.040 provide you with one. And of course one of them 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.879 is a is a major character in the early goings 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.520 of the novel. Yeah, that's true. And then of course 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.159 there's the spacing guilt. These are individuals who handle in 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.600 your planetary travel and this is a very complex, dangerous arrangement. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.840 So you have Guild navigators, individuals who have been specially 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:15.720 bread trained and to varying degrees engineered to make the 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:20.399 kind of advanced navigational computations necessary to get from planet 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.640 day to planet B without just popping out of existence. Yeah. Now, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.119 we mentioned that the mentats rely on some kind of 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.840 drug that stains their lips purple. The Guild navigators definitely 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.119 rely on a drug, and that drug is the drug 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.480 we talked about of the opening, Spice. That will will 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.760 go more into the spice and the effects of Spice 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.280 in the second episode, but it's a key part of 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.720 their outlook of their abilities is not just this computational power, 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.240 but also sort of the ability to see the future, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.439 which Spice gives them. Yeah, at least a very limited amount, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.720 just so you can see what where your various choices 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.960 will take you, and you can, at least in the 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.119 next few seconds a avoid the ones that will destroy you. Yeah, 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.520 and therefore sort of feel your way through the dark, 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.560 uh safely from point A to point B. Yeah. And 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.160 then there's a third group of these sort of advanced 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.320 humans that I think is is maybe the most interesting 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.640 of the three and also the hardest to pin down 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.960 and define. But they're the Binny Jesseret. So the main 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.440 character of the novel Poul Trades, his mother is Jessica, 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.200 and she's a Binny Jesseret trained woman. The Binni jesssere 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:34.639 At are a a female order of super smart, very perceptive, 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.920 highly trained priestesses of some kind who haven't they haven't 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.320 They have an aptitude for politics, for one thing like 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.600 that they are tuned into all the finer points of 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.280 human expression that we miss every day. There's sort of 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.119 human lie detectors. They can tell what people are thinking 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.320 and what they're gonna do by micro expressions on their faces, 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.320 tonal shifts in their voices. And they command a sort 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.760 of supreme knowledge of the human animal and how it works. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:11.160 And they play a fascinating long game too, of manipulating mythology, 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:16.600 um mamonics and UH and culture to their benefit. Yeah. 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.560 One of the most interesting examples of this that comes 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.399 up in the novel is the idea of them. Is 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.159 it the called the Missionary of Protectiva? Yes, which is 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:30.119 this fascinating idea that the this order goes throughout the galaxy, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:36.280 seeding planets with mythology that later members of the order 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.880 can rely upon if they're in a pinch. So it says, 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.320 if you went to every city in the country you 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:47.520 live in, spreading rumors about I don't know, prophecies about 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.879 someone who would come to your community and save it 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.480 from poverty and and and everything, and then you tell 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:58.120 all your friends exactly what to do to fulfill those prophecies. Yeah. Yeah, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.159 So it's a factless failsafe. Also, they're gonna laying the 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.680 grounds for future manipulation. Uh. And of course at their 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.040 heart they also have a breeding program, yeah, which has 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:12.159 some I think some creepy similarities to eugenics programs. Yeah, Andy, 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.399 there's definitely a eugenic vibe to it. They're trying to 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.680 breed a specific person a what they call the quistat's 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.400 hat iraq um, a term signifying one who can be 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.679 many places at once. I thought the translation of that 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.200 term was the shortening of the way. Yes, that right, Yeah, 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.399 I believe, Yeah, that is also invoked as well. But 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:36.240 according to the Don Appendix, in simpler terms, what they 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.760 saw it is quote a human with mental powers permitting 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.120 him to understand and use higher order dimensions. So they're 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.639 trying they're essentially trying to breed a superman tat, a 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:52.800 human supercomputer with from some preceientabilities found in the Guild Navigators, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.399 but without necessarily without the without necessarily having to imbue 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:58.960 the spice. Yeah. Yeah, So in a sense, they're trying 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.679 to to get to that next phase of evolution in 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:07.080 terms of human thinking, the human thinking apparatus. I don't 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.480 think you can make evolution happen. You just gotta wait 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.360 on it. They're they're determined them. And then on top 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.119 of that, you have the beneath a laxu who have 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:19.000 continued to refine human form and function, often in ways 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.159 that push the envelope of acceptabilities. Though, and this you 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.680