1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: the Monday edition of the program and it is a 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: super newsworthy one. We just got finished with an Oval 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Office meeting between Trump and Zelensky, and I would say 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: as we work towards the idea of a trilateral meeting, 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Trump is effectively playing the role of mediator. There are 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: also probably more European leaders in the White House at 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 1: one moment than we've almost ever seen before. I mean, 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: you've got the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, England, the 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: head of NATO, basically everyone arrayed there for a meeting 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: to discuss the future of the Ukraine Russia conflict. And 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: I do think the meeting that we just saw between 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: Trump and Zolensky was light years, light years different than 15 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: the last time we saw Zolensky in the Oval Office 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: when they were negotiating the so called Mineral Rights agreement. 17 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: And all of this is moving in rapid speed. One 18 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: bit of news that came out at the end of 19 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: the press conference, and I don't think we've hardly even 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: mentioned it, if at all, on this program. Milania Trump 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: wrote a letter that Trump hand delivered to Vladimir Putin, 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: calling on Putin to end the war and stop the 23 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: murder suffering that is going on in Europe. That matters 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: on some level because Milania Trump, Buck, you may remember 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: the exact country was it. She was from the Czech 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Republic area. If I remember, where is Milania's from, Slovenia. Slovenia, 27 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: So she is familiar as someone who was born and 28 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: raised in in that region in some way, with the 29 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: influence of Russia and all of those all of those 30 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: angles associated with it. Just now, Zolenski's wife has written 31 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: a letter to Milanya, thanking her reportedly for trying to 32 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: do whatever she can to stop the war, and Zolensky 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: is going to deliver that letter from his wife to Milanya. Trump. 34 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: I mentioned that only in the context of personal relationships 35 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: is everything to Trump, and you can argue, Hey, that 36 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the case. There's huge state departments. Trump wants 37 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: to look in the eye of someone else and have 38 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: a handshake, agreement, or a relationship. It seems to me, Buck, 39 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: that the relationship between Trump and Zolensky is actually much 40 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: stronger now than it was back in was it February 41 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: when they had the Oval Office blow up? If I 42 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: remember correctly, I think it was February they had that 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: iconic head to head meeting after the Pope died in 44 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: Rome in the Vatican City, and it seems like their 45 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: relationships have been improving since. Slovenia, by the way, for 46 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: those of you who are not geographic experts, and I 47 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: would put myself firmly in this category, Slovenia was a 48 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: part of Yugoslavia prior to becoming an independent nation in 49 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. Just fyi, okay, let me play some 50 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: of these cuts that all just came out in the 51 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: last hour or so. Let's see. Trump says there could 52 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: be a trilateral meeting right off the top here cut 53 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: thirty two. Let's listen. 54 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna have a meeting. I think if everything 55 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: works out well today, we'll have a trilad and I 56 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: think there will be a reasonable chance of ending the 57 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: world when we do that. 58 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: Is this the end of the road for American support 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: or where Frank is Today's meeting deal or no deal? 60 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: I can never say that. It's never the end of 61 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: the people are being killed and we want to stop that, 62 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: So I would not say it's the end of the road. No, 63 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: I think we have a good chance of doing it. 64 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: It's been almost four years now that a lot of 65 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: people were killed last week, A lot of people last week. 66 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: I mean millions of people killed, but a lot of 67 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 2: people last week for whatever reason, a big number, a 68 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: lot of soldiers, both on both sides. And I know 69 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: the president, I know myself, and I believe Vladimir Putin 70 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: wants to see it ended. 71 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: And as you know on Friday, so you've got President 72 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: Leslie here, as you listen to Russia and Ukraine, which 73 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: side has the better to carus? 74 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to say that. I'm just going 75 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: to I'm just here to be Look, this isn't my war. 76 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: This is Joe Biden's war. He's the one that had 77 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: a lot to do with this happening. And we want 78 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: to get it ended, and we wanted to and good 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: for everybody we wanted to end. 80 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: Good. 81 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: The people of Ukraine have suffered incredibly. 82 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: Okay, let me hit you with a couple of others here, buck, 83 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: and then we'll break down what we think the significance is. 84 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: Here cut thirty seven. Trump says we want a long 85 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: term piece. We're not looking for a short term deal. 86 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: I think that's important. Cut thirty seven. 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: We're going to work with Ukraine, We're going to work 88 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: with everybody, and we're going to make sure that if 89 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: this piece, the piece is going to stay long term. 90 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: This is very long term. 91 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: We're not talking about a two year piece and then 92 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: we end up in this mess again. We're going to 93 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: make sure that everything's good. We'll work with Russia, We're 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: going to work with Ukraine. We're going to make sure 95 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 2: it works. And I think if we can get to piece, 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: it's going to work. I have no doubt about it. 97 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So Buck and let me play one more time, 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: because I think this is probably the most newsworthy element. 99 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: Trump not ruling out sending American troops to Ukraine. This 100 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: is cut thirty four. I think that was the biggest 101 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: news that came out of this press availability in the 102 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: Oval Office. Cut thirty four. Your teams talked about security guarantees. 103 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 4: Could that involve the US troops would be ruled that 104 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 4: out in the future. 105 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: Will let you know that maybe later today we're meeting 106 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: with seven great leaders of great countries also, and we'll 107 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: be talking about that they'll all be involved, but there'll 108 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: be a lot of uh, there'll be a lot of help. 109 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: When it comes to security, there's gonna be a lot 110 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: of help. It's going to be good. They are a 111 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: first line of defense because they're there, they're Europe, but 112 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: we're gonna help them out. Also, we'll be involved. 113 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest thing of 114 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: all here, the land issue, the swaps. 115 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: You get this. 116 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 4: I get that it's gonna be painful for Ukraine because 117 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 4: they don't think they should lose anything to Russian aggression. 118 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: But the realities are what they are right. 119 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 4: Now, and that I think you can get to a 120 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 4: negotiated settlement right now. The challenge is how does that 121 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: settlement in and how to is it endure, specifically without 122 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 4: US either guarantee of security, meaning we would send in 123 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 4: actual military to help repulse another Russian I'm just laying 124 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: it out everybody, this is where we are. I'm not 125 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 4: advocating for it. I'm talking about what it would mean. 126 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 4: I think we can all see what it would mean. Or, 127 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 4: as Clay was laying it out before, the possibility of 128 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 4: a US military presence in Ukraine as the ultimate guaranteur of. 129 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: Peace in the region. 130 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: Uh, because you know, if you have Russian tanks rolling 131 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 4: over and shooting at Americans. Uh, that's going to mean 132 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: immediately we're involved. But I understand what that also means 133 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 4: Russia thousands of nukes, major military, first world, first world military, 134 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 4: if not a first world economy. 135 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: Uh. 136 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 4: And it's it's a challenge. I wonder how now the 137 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 4: Trump has to be clear. Trump hasn't said that's happening. 138 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: Maybe that doesn't happen. But we are trying to think 139 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: here through Clay. What is a guarantee is a very 140 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 4: powerful word. What is a guarantee acceptable to Ukraine at 141 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 4: this point that does not involve a clear US maybe 142 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 4: an EU contingent instead. But I don't see how you 143 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 4: get around that. I think there's so many ways to 144 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 4: tiptoe up. 145 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: First of all, when we did the mineral rights agreement, 146 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: it is a backdoor acknowledgment that will defend American interest 147 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: in Ukraine. That's why Ukraine wanted to do the deal. 148 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't talked about a lot. But when you say, hey, 149 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: America owns fifty percent of this mine effectively, then you 150 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: are saying we're not going to let somebody come in 151 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: and take away American property. So it is a backdoor defense. 152 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: Part of me wonders whether they're going to get really 153 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: skillful in the way that this is drafted. Maybe Europe 154 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: is providing some secondary and maybe let me use my vocabulary. Well, 155 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: here the Americans are the tertiary troops, and so you 156 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: have think about this, and again this is just me 157 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: kind of sketching out. You have the Ukrainian troops on 158 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: the front line, and Ukraine is staring right across at 159 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: Russia in some sort of newly designed battlefield setup that 160 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: is not dissimilar to what we have in Korea. In 161 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: secondary support, you have so called European peace peace keeping 162 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: troops that are basically a secondary line of defense further back, 163 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: maybe it's fifty miles, sixty miles, whatever you want to do, 164 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: but do have the ability to move to the front 165 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: rapidly as needed. Then in a third tier, in a 166 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: tertiary level, you have American troops on the ground, protecting, 167 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: securing all of the economic interests of the United States. 168 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: But that is all the way back, maybe in Kiev, 169 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: right very far from the front line. Is that an 170 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: acceptable backdoor ish NATO Article five protection without officially being it, 171 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: meaning Russia has to invade in order for those troops 172 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: to get called in from line two in line three. 173 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: And then the other part of this buck that I 174 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: wonder about is how much does Trump just trust that 175 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: Putin's not going to test him? That matters, but only 176 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: for the next three years. Oh, because if you suddenly 177 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: had President Kamala Harris, do you feel comfortable that Putin? 178 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: Who knows again, Putin can play the long game a 179 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: bit here, because he's got twenty years in theory to 180 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: still be president, and he knows at some point sadly 181 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: in those twenty years, maybe the United States has Joe 182 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: Biden two point zero and he takes advantage of that. 183 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, we all know Kamala is not going 184 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 4: to run again, Clay, But besides that point, if it's 185 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 4: President Newsom or President Kamala Harris, that will change the 186 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 4: calculation for Vladimir Putin, no question about it. I do 187 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 4: think though, that we're in a situation where Trump is 188 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 4: he's going to be negotiating and this thing, and he 189 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 4: might have to come out and tell the magabase, Hey, guys, 190 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: this is the only way to get this done or else, 191 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 4: This thing grinds on forever, and then there's a greater 192 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 4: risk of possible American Russian direct conflict. And then of 193 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 4: course there's always that specter in the background of some 194 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 4: kind of a tactical nuclear exchange on the front lines. 195 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 4: Now nobody wants that. I hope it doesn't come to 196 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 4: US troops as the guarantee. I'm just trying to think 197 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: of what this was why we talked about the sanctions thing. 198 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: Anything that is, oh, we're going. 199 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 4: To make Russia's economy beg for mercy is not a 200 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 4: guarantee of Ukrainian security. That's what we've already seen. Okay, 201 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 4: there is nothing that they can promise on the economic 202 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 4: warfare front against Russia that would make any savvy Ukrainian 203 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 4: think that that's actually a guarantee. It's a stumbling block 204 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 4: to Russian aggression at best. So with that, it's got 205 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 4: to be military. I'm also reminded here of Clay of 206 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 4: how right Trump was all along, even in his first term, 207 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 4: about how NATO needs to step up, NATO needs to 208 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 4: spend more in its defense, Europe needs to stop being 209 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 4: a bunch of free riders. EU is the largest economy 210 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 4: in the world. 211 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: Everybody. 212 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 4: The EU is the largest economy in the world, you know, 213 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 4: the Eurozone. Now, obviously it's a lot of different countries 214 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 4: put together, but why is America by far the biggest 215 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 4: contributor to this in materiel? And why isn't you know, 216 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 4: why isn't Europe stepping up and realizing, you know, all 217 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 4: those fancy social welfare states you got running, guys, it's 218 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 4: only because the American security guarantee You've been able to 219 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 4: get that going. 220 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: And I thought part of the press conference that was 221 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: actually interesting and illuminating in that aspect was Trump pointing 222 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: out NATO spending has gotten to basically five percent or 223 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: they have that target. Now, the way that this is 224 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: structured since Trump came into office is we sell weapons 225 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: to NATO, and then NATO then provides those weapons to Ukraine. 226 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: In some way, it sounded like that was the way 227 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: that he was describing it. 228 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 4: This is the role of Pakistan, by the way, in 229 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 4: the Soviet Afghan War and the Pakistani ISI Interservices Intelligence Agency, 230 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 4: they were the cutouts for us to get the stingers 231 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 4: and the other weaponry. You know, you guys, remember Charlie 232 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: Wilson's War to bring that up again, But it was 233 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 4: the Pakistani intelligence services because they could operate in that region. Obviously, 234 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 4: the Europeans are already in country and can pass along 235 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 4: whatever we need them to pass along. 236 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: I would also point this out. President Trump has got 237 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: such a connection with his base and with the Republican 238 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: Party in general. I think that a lot of people 239 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: just trust him to get a deal done, and I 240 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: think that gives him the flexibility to do some things 241 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: that other Republican leaders couldn't. I think people trust Trump 242 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: to keep us out of war. I really do, and 243 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: I do think that that gives him negotiating leverage to 244 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: try to get a deal done. The thing that Russia 245 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: wants again, I think is always so important. What do 246 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: the people want? Russia wants land, Ukraine wants security. That's 247 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: their number one goal. We can provide some of that security, 248 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: but how is it structured is the key, and that's 249 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: the devil in the details, so to speak. 250 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 4: We want you to be secure in your home and 251 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 4: that means having the tools you need, and Saber can 252 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 4: provide them. You know, nearly twenty million college students go 253 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 4: away to college this fall. If you've got a son 254 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 4: or daughter, a grandchild heading off to college, you want 255 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 4: them to have some self protection tools. The truth is, 256 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 4: a lot of great schools are in really crappy neighborhoods. 257 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 4: I can start naming them dangerous neighborhoods. That's just the reality. 258 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 4: There are a lot of great universities and colleges that 259 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 4: are in some dangerous spots. And having self protection tools 260 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 4: from Saber that are non lethal but can stop the 261 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: bad guys and get your son or daughter out of 262 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 4: a danger situation makes a whole lot of sense. 263 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: Uh. 264 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 4: Sabers, pepper sprays, pepper jels, and projectile devices all proudly 265 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 4: made here in the USA, and they can stop the threat. 266 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 4: But they're non lethal and a lot of jurisdictions. I 267 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 4: might add, you're able to carry this stuff, whereas you 268 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: couldn't carry a lethal option like a firearm. Again, go 269 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 4: up into the Northeast, go up to some of these places. 270 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 4: You won't be able to carry a lethal option as 271 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 4: a student, even if you're twenty one years old. But 272 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 4: Saber has those non lethal options and that is a 273 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: great tool for the defense of yourself, your son, your daughter. 274 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 4: Be ready to defend yourself with Saber Home Defense projectile launchers, 275 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 4: non lethal, easy to use. Act Now to protect yourself 276 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: and your family, say fifteen percent on sabers megabundle with 277 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 4: extra projectiles, magazine and practice targets. Go to saberradio dot com. 278 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 4: That's Sabre radio dot com or call eight four four 279 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 4: A two four safe eight four four A two four safe. 280 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: News if you can count on, and some laughs too. Clay, 281 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: Travis and Bucks find them on the free iHeartRadio app 282 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back 283 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: into Clay and Bucks. 284 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 4: So the biggest thing right now in this huge summit 285 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 4: at the White House with European leaders and Vladimir Zelenski 286 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 4: of Volosmir Zelenski of Ukraine is the possibility of US 287 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 4: security guarantee for an end of the Ukraine War. This 288 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 4: we're not just talking ceasefire here, We're talking durable peace. 289 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: That's the goal. That's the goal. 290 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: Well they get there, we don't know, But Clay, another 291 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 4: part of this is Zelenski. So the security guarantee, I 292 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 4: think is the biggest question. We'll talk to Frank Gaffney 293 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 4: about that here. Momentarily, he was a high stakes negotiator 294 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 4: for the Reagan administration. I know many of youre familiar 295 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 4: with Frank, but we'll talk to him about this. 296 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: Clay. 297 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: The other thing, though, is Zelenski saying in the Oval office. Yeah, 298 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 4: I'll sit down with Putin. Let's go, let's have this conversation. 299 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 4: Let's see where we are. So we're at at least 300 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 4: getting more data or at least moving this thing. The 301 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 4: process is moving. The result is what is uncertain. But 302 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 4: you've got to have that process to get to the 303 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 4: result you want. 304 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: Until you get these individuals sitting down in some sort 305 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: of agreement that they might in any way into the conflict, 306 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: you can't into conflict, so you have to meet with 307 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: them sooner or later. And it does seem like there's 308 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: a good chance that we're gonna get Trump in the 309 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: role of mediator, maybe by the end of the week, 310 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: for Zelensky and Putin face to face. So we will 311 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: give you the absolute latest on that. How does this end? 312 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: And again, the security guarantees versus the land being given 313 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: up seems to be the primary concern of both sides, 314 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: Ukraine and Russia. In that respect. We'll break more of 315 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: that down for you in a sec but good Ranchers 316 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: gets their proteins from American ranchers and farmers. No antibiotics, 317 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: no hormones, no seed oil. 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That's sixty five dollars off on 328 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: your initial order when you use code Clay again. Free 329 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: meat for life as well, whether it's chicken nuggets, bacon, 330 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: wagu burgers, You're gonna love it. You can pick your 331 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: own meats. Go to good ranchers dot com code clay 332 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: right now, go check it out. You're gonna love it 333 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: like my family does. Sixty five dollars off Good ranchers 334 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: dot com code Clay. 335 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 4: Welcome back into Clay and Buck guys. Just a quick 336 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 4: cleanup on ale buck here. Sorry I got that wrong, 337 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 4: and it's an important one, so maya Kulpa give me 338 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 4: a code read. At one point in the twenty first century, 339 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 4: the EU had a larger economy than the US. I 340 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: think was around two thousand and eight. The team just 341 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 4: pulled up all the numbers. 342 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: But we have. 343 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 4: Absolutely smoked the EU over the last fifteen years or 344 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 4: so in terms of GDP growth. So we're at about 345 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 4: what is it like, we're the day They all the 346 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 4: European countries combined are about twenty trillion. We're about thirty trillion. 347 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 4: So sorry, sorry, sorry. Their population is larger than ours. 348 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: They've got about four hundred and fifty million. We've got 349 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 4: about three hundred and thirty depending on how you want 350 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 4: to count the illegals. But you know, it's the whole 351 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 4: other thing. But so they have a bigger population manpower. 352 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 4: But in terms of you know, we're talking about the 353 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 4: Ukraine situation, but in terms of material monetary resources. What 354 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 4: an astonishing stat in favor of the US approach of things. 355 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 4: By the way, it's not even close. Over the last 356 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 4: fifteen years, we have absolutely it turns out, working twenty 357 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 4: hours a week and like three days a week. And 358 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 4: you know, having eight weeks off a year doesn't make 359 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 4: you as rich as what Americans do, So Maya coulp 360 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 4: all VIPs. I'm sorry, Buck is fallible on both serving 361 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 4: and stats, although the serve game is not over yet. 362 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 4: Let's take our friend Frank Gaffney here. Frank Gaffney was 363 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 4: President Reagan's Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy. 364 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: Also served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for 365 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 4: Nuclear Forces and Arms Controlled Policy. 366 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: Frank, appreciate you being here. 367 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: I'm sure you saw what's going on in that Trump 368 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 4: White House in that meeting. Can we just dive into 369 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 4: the security guarantee part, because that's the sticky situation that 370 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 4: seems to be emerging right now. 371 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: What do you make of it? 372 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: Well, it's sticky all the way around, as best I 373 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 3: can tell. On the one hand, I'm incredulous that Vladimir 374 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 3: Putin will actually accept it. I'm also somewhat surprised that 375 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 3: President Trump apparently had in some form or another. And 376 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: you know, whether it's enough to persuade the Ukrainians to 377 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 3: relinquished territory that they've lost, to be Frank, but nonetheless, 378 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 3: seek to recover remains very much to be seen. So 379 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 3: it is what Britz would call, I think a sticky 380 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: wicket in the cricket. 381 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Gain Frank, it seems that basically this is boiled down 382 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: to Russia's going to demand territory, Ukraine's going to demand 383 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: security guarantees. I mean that seems to be the primary 384 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: goal of each side at this point. How does this 385 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: resolve itself? Is there any parallel in the Cold War? 386 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: The analogy we've been using is Korea. You have a 387 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: demilitarized zone. It's been a tenuous piece, but it now 388 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: has lasted for seventy five some odd years. Ish, is 389 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: there any precedent there? How would you solve this this situation? 390 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: If you were given the ability to act as mediator, well. 391 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 3: I would do one thing that, as far as I 392 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: can tell, is not on the table or even being discussed, 393 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: and that is I would hold the Chinese Communist Party 394 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 3: accountable for the fix that we're in at the moment. 395 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: I believe that they Jijing things specifically green lighted the 396 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 3: invasion of Iraq, exue me out of Ukraine, and in 397 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 3: so doing has been ever since the enabler of this war. 398 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: I think they did it for selfish reasons. I believe 399 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 3: that it is to distract the United States and the Europeans, 400 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 3: to tie us down, to bleed us in terms of 401 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: military equipment and financial means, and that all serves the 402 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 3: purpose China for its own agenda on the Pacific. So 403 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 3: I would start by saying, those guys have to be 404 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 3: held accountable for what's being done here, and without that, 405 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 3: I honestly am not sure that the Russians will agree 406 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: to anything. I think as long as the Chinese believe, 407 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 3: as they've indicated, that this war should continue, the much 408 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 3: junior partner in this so called no limits partnership name 409 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: with Vladimir Putin is probably going to be heating his 410 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 3: bosses in Beijing. So it's a challenge that is not 411 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 3: currently being addressed, as I said, and I think that 412 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 3: until it does, it's not clear to me that any 413 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 3: of these negotiations about the bunch. 414 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: So we're still hoping for breakthrough. Breakthroughs yere Frank, and 415 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 4: we're going to get more details about where the Ukrainian 416 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 4: side comes down on this. It seems like there's a 417 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 4: willingness for Zelensky to sit down with Putin, which is 418 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 4: certainly a necessary precondition for the trilateral Trilottle discussion, if 419 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 4: not trilatal agreement to come out of this. What, though, 420 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 4: do you think what can Trump do to pressure the 421 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 4: Russians to actually be willing to end this thing, Because 422 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 4: that's one thing that's getting a lot of attention right now. 423 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 4: As this is going on, as these discussions are happening, 424 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 4: and Trump was saying it in the Oval Office, the 425 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: Russians are escalating their offensive. The Russians are trying to 426 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 4: run up more casualties on the Ukrainian side as we're 427 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 4: supposed to see conversations about peace. So do you think 428 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 4: all the economic levers have been pulled? How can Trump 429 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 4: get through to Putin that he won't just continue to 430 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 4: get more if he keeps fighting. 431 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: Well again, Trump has placed secondary sanctions on India for 432 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 3: buying Russian oil at this kount of Prisis. The Chinese 433 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 3: are also doing that, and I think if Trump wants 434 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: to bring real pressure to bear on Putin, put those 435 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 3: secondary sanctions on China and I think you'll see that 436 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 3: there's prob a willingness to get to an agreement that 437 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 3: doesn't exist at the moment, That's what I would do. 438 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: How do you preserve Okay, let's pretend that Ukraine, because 439 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: this is where I do think Zelensky has a maybe 440 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: the most important argument. Let's say that he says, Okay, 441 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: we're going to give you some of the territory that 442 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: you have invaded that we don't think you deserve. But 443 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: you took this land, and we're going to draw a 444 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: new border. But based on the way Putin has behaved 445 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: over the last ten years, how do you, if you're Zolensky, 446 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: knowing that Trump only has three and a half years 447 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: left in office, keep any kind of security apparatus or 448 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: faith in this deal when Putin has shown that he 449 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: will not abide by any sort of agreement not to 450 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: invade again, meaning as soon as Trump leaves and you 451 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: end up with another week democrat in office, Putin tries 452 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: to take another bite at the apple. In other words, 453 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: I'm actually sympathetic to Zelenski. The security guarantee seem to 454 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: be to me, the most important thing for Ukraine. I 455 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: don't understand how you change that dynamic. 456 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 3: I'm not sure you can again unless there is some 457 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 3: disincentive to buten that is not evident at the moment. 458 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 3: To the contrary, I think that what he is signaling 459 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 3: in his behavior to date, for sure, and arguably in 460 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 3: some of his posturing at the moment, is he's leaving 461 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 3: his options open, and that means that a security guarantee 462 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 3: is necessary. I'm just not sure that the United States 463 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 3: has the appetite for it, and if it does, whether 464 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 3: it will be broadly supported by the American people, who 465 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 3: we've tucked ourselves into a position where a lot of folks, 466 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 3: particularly in the Maga community, are persuaded that Ukraine's not 467 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 3: our problem, and we certainly don't want to put America 468 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 3: and boots or lives on the line to protect it. 469 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 3: I like you, I think have some sympathy for the 470 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 3: argument that the Ukrainians are making, especially because back in 471 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 3: ninety four we gave them security guarantees if they gave 472 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: up nuclear weapons and that went over the side, and 473 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 3: they're rightfully, I think, very reluctant to buy that pig 474 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: in a poke Again, what do you make. 475 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 4: Of the argument that has been out there among some 476 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 4: of the more hawkish Ukraine supporters in this country that 477 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 4: if Putin isn't stopped, definitively in Ukraine, he will go 478 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 4: into other countries in Europe. Because you're hearing less of 479 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 4: that right now, because I think everyone's focused on this 480 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 4: current negotiation. But that has certainly been something that people 481 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 4: have been saying about Russia's intentions. 482 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: I think that is Putin's intention. He's made no secret 483 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: that he thinks the greatest disaster of the twentyth century 484 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: was the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think 485 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: he seeks to, if not re establish it fully than 486 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: some fashion of the Russian Empire, and that means bites 487 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 3: of parts of Europe again, and I hate to belabor 488 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 3: this point, but I think in some measure it's a 489 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 3: function of whether he's going to have the backing and 490 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 3: support of China to do such a thing. And unless 491 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: we get serious about dissuading the Chinese from thinking that 492 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 3: more chaos, what I call strategic arson, is something that 493 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 3: they can pursue with impunity, you're going to find I 494 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 3: think Putin believing that he can in fact similarly act 495 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 3: with impunity, if not immediately down the road. 496 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's say we don't get any settlement at all, 497 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: We're coming up on the winter. Typically things kind of 498 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: grind to a halt just based on the difficulties in 499 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: moving men and material l based on the weather there. 500 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: How long would this go on? In your mind if 501 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: both sides just continue basically on the trajectory were on 502 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: right now. 503 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: Well, something that's changed in the course of this war 504 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 3: is that it's not all about you know, the movement 505 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 3: of mechanized divisions that gets that gets very tricky in 506 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 3: the winter time, especially the muddy periods at the beginning 507 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: and end of it. But what I think you're going 508 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 3: to be seeing more of is more attacks of rockets 509 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: and drones especially the war can continue. That is a 510 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: question of resources on the part of the Ukrainians, particularly 511 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 3: human resources, and seemingly the Russians being bankrolled by you know, 512 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: the Chinese again and getting all kinds of equipment for 513 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: the war from Iran. If it's well as they're still 514 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: in power there, I hope that that will be something 515 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 3: else that we attend to and bring to a close. 516 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: Rank a god. 517 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 4: With Reagan, you were privy to high level discussions of 518 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 4: this nature. You know what the feel is like, what 519 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 4: the tone is like when things are progressing versus when 520 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 4: things are stalling. How would you gauge your optimism at 521 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 4: what we've seen so far today, added to what we 522 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 4: saw Friday in Alaska. 523 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 3: I think it's a work in progress. And my guess 524 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: is that what we're going to see more of is 525 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: posturing and a decision that there's more meetings to be had. 526 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: So I think that this is not yet ripe for 527 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 3: a conclusion. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there 528 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 3: are pieces of this that haven't yet been addressed, as 529 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 3: I say, and that means this will continue at the 530 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: talking stage, I suppose, as well as the warring stage 531 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: while the talking goes on. 532 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, Frank. We appreciate the time and you coming 533 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: on and sharing your expertise with. 534 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 3: Us, happy to do it. Thanks for having me. 535 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Look, it's football season, and I know people maybe need 536 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of an uplift as there's been some 537 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: some dour things out there on the global stage, and 538 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: one of the best things to just kind of kick back, 539 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: have a beer is football. And I know my son's 540 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: football season kicks off on Thursday. That is high school football. 541 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: But a lot of you out there gearing up too, 542 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,239 Speaker 1: whether it's the NFL, whether it's college football, and our 543 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: friends at prize picks right now in forty plus states, 544 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: including California, including Texas, including Florida. We're gonna make you, 545 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: hopefully I'll have a lot more fun with football than 546 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: you otherwise would. Every week we're going to give you 547 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: picks once the season gets rolling. Prizepicks dot com. Code Clay. 548 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: You put in five dollars right now, you get fifty 549 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: dollars to just make football a little bit more fun 550 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: than it already is. This is America sport. All of 551 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: you you pretty much are going to be watching at 552 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: some point in time. Go get hooked up now. Forty 553 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: plus states, thirteen million players. Pricepicks dot com. My name Clay, 554 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: that's Clay for fifty dollars. When you play five dollars, 555 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: that's price picks dot com, my name Clay. Making America 556 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: great again isn't just one map, It's many. The team 557 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: forty seven podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay 558 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app 559 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. 560 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 4: Back into Clay and Buck. We're closing up shop here. 561 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 4: We'll continue to assess the progress of these High Sticks negotiations, 562 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 4: so we will get into all of that with you tomorrow. 563 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 4: We'll also go back to the DC crime issue and 564 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 4: something we didn't get We didn't get you today just 565 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 4: because it's fun but not well, it's kind of important. 566 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: MSNBC Clay, We'll have fun with this school. I want 567 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: to die, You want to save the whole thing? Well, no, 568 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: I think we can tell people, but just say, hey, 569 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: put a pen. We're gonna have some fun. But there's 570 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: been so much breaking news. Yeah today, but MSNBC go 571 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: ahead and tell people if they happen to miss it, 572 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: it is dead. 573 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 4: They are changing the name. There is no more MSNBC. 574 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 4: They are changing the name of MSNBC because the brand 575 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: is so trash and everything at Trump has This is 576 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 4: just an absolute victory of Trump over the left wing 577 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 4: media lunatic brigade. I mean, it's it's astonishing and as 578 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 4: I said on Twitter, I think this alone should get 579 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 4: Trump added to Mount Rushmore. The destruction of MSNBC, the 580 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 4: destruction of the CNN propaganda machine, and we have Trump 581 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 4: to thank for this. 582 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: So we'll get into this more tomorrow. We'll have fun. 583 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: On a light note. 584 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 4: On a light note from the world of high stakes negotiations, 585 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 4: Trump Zelenski fashion. 586 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: Clay and I are. 587 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 4: Sympathetic to those who get abused for their sartorial choices. Clay, 588 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 4: I can't, depending on Hugh ask my tennis shorts too 589 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,239 Speaker 4: long or too short. I'm just I'm wondering, you know, Like, 590 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 4: how am I supposed to win here? 591 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: Loo? Why are you're shorts so short? They're just shorts? 592 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: Why are you're shorts so long? What am I supposed 593 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: to do? I don't understand perfect? This is perfect. I've 594 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: joked with my wife that there is truly nothing I 595 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: can do in clothing, and by the way, it's never women. 596 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm kind of stunned. I don't know if social media 597 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: wildly over indexes the number of men that care about 598 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: what other men wear. Like you have a pretty wife, 599 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: I've got a pretty wife. I can be standing next 600 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: to my gorgeous wife dressed in a perfect, you know, 601 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: evening gown and people are like, why are you wearing 602 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: that color shoe? Where's your why's your belt buckle? Focused 603 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: that way, I'm like, who looks at the guy? I 604 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: don't ever look at a dude. When there's a pretty 605 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: girl next to a guy, I don't care about the dude. 606 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 1: At all. All my eyes go to the pretty girl 607 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: on social media. There's a lot of dudes out there 608 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: that want to look at the guy. But this is Zolensky. 609 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: This is pretty funny. Remember Zelensky used to be a comedian, right, 610 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,479 Speaker 1: I mean, this was how he became famous. Uh and 611 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: uh he last time he was in the Oval Office, 612 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: there was a question about why he wasn't in a suit. 613 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: The same guy followed up with the same question, Pretty funny. 614 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: This happened just a little while ago in the Oval office. President, 615 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: you look fabulous in that suit. I said, yeah, Look 616 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: you look good. I said the same thing. 617 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I said, the one that attacked you last time. 618 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 2: I remember that. 619 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: I apologize to you. Look you look wonderful. No, my 620 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: first question for you, President, the suit I changed. That's 621 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: pretty funny if you had trouble hearing, Zolensky said, but 622 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: you're in the same suit. After the same reporter asked 623 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: him about his outfit, I changed, I changed, but you 624 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: have not, was his final line. Did you hear how 625 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: Zelensky's outfit was described by that White House reporter? Fabulous? 626 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: That White House reporter said he looked fabulous, not me, 627 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,919 Speaker 1: the white I do. 628 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 4: Think the word fabulous when you're discussing when you're discussing fashion, 629 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 4: I think the word fabulous is particularly appropriate. 630 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: Play thank you, thank you. It's just that I have 631 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: such a buoyant, optimistic worldview that I want to layer 632 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: out compliments on everyone across the entire culture. When we 633 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: come back tomorrow, we'll find out we're going to have 634 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: a press conference that is starting right about now, so 635 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: I imagine for those of you listening to Sean Hannity 636 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: there will be updates on exactly what it's said, and 637 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: tomorrow we will break down the ongoing fallout, and the 638 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: number one question will be has this set the table 639 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: for some sort of trilateral meeting and are we moving 640 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: closer to peace potentially in Ukraine? All that tomorrow we 641 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: will break down for you. Thanks for hanging on, Clay 642 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: and Buck