1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:01,720 Speaker 1: I don't know what else we're supposed to do when 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: we're here, because it's over so fucking quickly. We should 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: just laugh more, just laugh more. I agree. I agree. Good, 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: and you've got much more time to do it, which 5 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: is good. You can start earlier. I wish someone had 6 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: told me at twenty seven, I cheer up, stop being 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: so sad. When I was twenty seven, I didn't win 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: an Oscar, and I was really upset about it. And 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: my death was like, oh for Fox, say like, go 10 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: over it. You're twenty seven, like loads more terrible ship's 11 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: going to happen to you. Be more worried about that. 12 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: This is literally nothing, you know. I felt the same 13 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: way going back on for Christmas. I said, you know, 14 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm not winning an Oscar this year. I don't get 15 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: it now. I didn't make a film, but I still 16 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: think back in the nineties, my favorite David Letterman joke. 17 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: Every time they would have like Ebert and Cisco on 18 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: you know they do like their Oscar preview, and David 19 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Letterman would say, God, you know what, it's so upsetting. 20 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: Barber Strives in once again snubbed, and Roger would say, well, 21 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: she didn't make a picture that year, like doesn't matter. 22 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: She got snubbed. She got snubbed once again, Barbara, And 23 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: that was you at seven, And it's me to be snubbed. Hello, 24 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm Mini Driver. Welcome to Many Questions, Season two. I've 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: always loved Cruce's questionnaire. It was originally a nineteenth century 26 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: parlor game where players would ask each other thirty five 27 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature. It's 28 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: just the scientific method, really. In asking different people the 29 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: same set of questions, you can make observations about which 30 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: truths appeared to me universal. I love this discipline, and 31 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: it made me wonder, what if these questions were just 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: the jumping off point, what greater depths would be revealed 33 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: if I ask these questions as conversation starters with thought 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: leaders and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. So I 35 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: adapted prus questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions 36 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: that I personally think a pertinent to a person's story. 37 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: They are when and where were you happiest? What is 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real 39 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you 40 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: most like answered what person, place, or experience has shaped 41 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: you the most? What would be your last meal? And 42 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: can you tell me something in your life that's grown 43 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: out of a personal disaster. And I've gathered a group 44 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored and 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: humbled to have had the chance to engage with. You 46 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: may not hear their answers to all seven of these questions. 47 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: We've whittled it down to which questions felt closest to 48 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: their experience, or the most surprising, or created the most 49 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: fertile ground to connect. My guest today on many questions 50 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: is Sam frago So. Sam as the host of Talk 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Easy podcast, which currently has over two hundred and fifty episodes, 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: meaning he knew it was cool to do a podcast 53 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: before all the rest of us. He's brilliant. His guests 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: include musicians like Lord and Janelle Monet, are writers like 55 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: Nikki Giovanni, screen legends like Matthew McConaughey and Law Done. 56 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: He's also a director of writer and I imagine an 57 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: ideal dinner guest. He's a really interesting cat. I'm very 58 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: happy that I met him, and I very much hope 59 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: you enjoy this wonderful conversation first question, when and where 60 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: were you happiest? All these questions are so hard. You 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: have to know that, and someone like me who prepares 62 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: a whole bunch. The first thing I thought of is 63 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: this Normanly philosophy. And I'll explain this. When I moved 64 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles, I had started the show. I've been 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: a year in and he agreed to come on. And 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: back when I started it, you have to understand, like, 67 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: I don't come from money, my family is from Chicago. 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: I don't know anybody. So I'm bringing this microphone, the 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: one I'm talking to two people's homes or offices or whatever, 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: and it's all portable. So I go to his office 71 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: and when you walk in, it's like a president or 72 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: it's like someone who's met the president, and he has 73 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: my every president and we do this interview and it 74 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: goes great, and at the end of it, he says, 75 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: and it's something I thought he hadn't said before, but 76 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: it's something he often says, which is he says, Sam, 77 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: It's taken every split second of my life in this 78 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: case seven years to get here sitting across from you 79 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: in this moment, and it's taken every second of your 80 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: life to get to this conversation too, And I appreciate 81 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: every second of that journey. I hope you do too, 82 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: And so every day it has to be or I 83 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: try to make it the like effervescent moment, which is 84 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: the one we're in. So I'm gonna say you and 85 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: I it's Tuesday morning, I'm talking to many driver on 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: her show. The answer is you right now for right now. 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's a very good thing to have 88 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: co opted a Norman Lair quote. He's extraordinary. Oh god. 89 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: I sang at his birthday party once with a full 90 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: jazz band, and I came in on the wrong count 91 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: and I just had to I just had to do it. 92 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: And it was honestly the most excruciating performance of my 93 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: entire life. I just I never caught up with the band. 94 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: I never found my way through it. It was so bad. 95 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: And he just sat there with his hat on, smiling, 96 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: and I could see in his eyes he was like, 97 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: just don't stop, just keep going and you'll get to 98 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: the end. And I did. I can't believe you've say 99 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: in a jazz band for Norman there, Oh my gosh. 100 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: It was magnificent. He'd actually bought the record label I 101 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: was signed to, which is why. And it was kind 102 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: of this Hollywood affair. It was amazing. Even though I 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: was terrible, it was still the total privilege to be 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: terrible in front of him. I bet you were better 105 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: than you think. I don't think I was, But I 106 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: do like that idea in the unhappiness of this year, 107 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: which has been true for so many people. But honestly, 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: particularly having lost my mom and rend your post about that, 109 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: I was very moved by that. Well, you know, I 110 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: wish I could have a conversation about one's host death 111 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: ruminations about your parents. It's my parents, like the one 112 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: person I want to discuss, like, oh my god, Mom, 113 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: it's so weird how all of this stuff has receded, 114 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: all of the ship between us, and all of this 115 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: amazing stuff comes to the foreground. And the one person 116 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 1: I want to talk about it with is her, because 117 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 1: she would roar with laughter. She would say, isn't that amazing? Gosh? 118 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: I wish I'd known that when I was alive. But 119 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: it's it's less the sound of one hand clapping than 120 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: you'd think when a mother dies. She does involve herself 121 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: in conversations with me. It feels like, when does that happen? Well, 122 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: when I talk to her, I can't help but talk 123 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: to her because it's been a lifetime of doing that 124 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't put any judgment on that whatsoever. 125 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: And I feel like because I did ask her, I 126 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: was like, is this just my brain generating your voice? 127 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: And she was like, well, you know, I don't have 128 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: a brain anymore, so I'm just going to coop yours. 129 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, it is me, but it's your brain, which 130 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: is such a statement. It's weird. Though your grief is 131 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: a funny beast. I feel like my mom's coop in 132 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: my brain in real time. She doesn't need to be 133 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: gone for that to happen. That is a really good point, 134 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: and it's true, like moms just do that. They do 135 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: you do that to your son? Well? You know what 136 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: I think about that because as our relationship is changing 137 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: now that he's thirteen, and I can't bite him and 138 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: booby him like the way that I want to or 139 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: the way that I did. You know, he's this young 140 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: man now it's inappropriate and not cool, and he's very 141 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: tolerant of my love. But I realized that I've got 142 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: to temper it somewhat now and it's kind of heartbreaking, 143 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: but he's so tolerant of me, and I do try 144 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: not to Actually that's not sure. I hardly try it 145 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: all to not be in his brain. But we have 146 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: a weird shorthand maybe because it was all just him 147 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: and me, we still laugh a lot. So I think 148 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: it's okay. Look, if you think it's okay and he 149 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: says it's okay, then it's probably okay. I do think 150 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: about that, the idea that it is still a gift 151 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: every split second of life, because when you really see 152 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: it go, when you really see it gone, I know 153 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: how much we will want it back. So to say 154 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: that that this present moment and every split second this 155 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: is it. This is where I'm happiest is being alive 156 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: in this moment and actually having an awareness of that life. 157 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: And that's the ambition. I mean, I think that it's 158 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: impossible to feel that every day, every moment. Yeah, but 159 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: I did think this morning, when I was showering, I 160 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: was getting dressed, I was like, well, I'm doing a 161 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: podcast with you. We don't even know each other so well, 162 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: I mean almost at all. So I don't know. I 163 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: just love his way of saying, it's taken everything in 164 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: my life to get here, and that's true of all 165 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: of us. It doesn't just mean two people on a microphone. 166 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: It's true of any good thing that happens. It's taking 167 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: everything else to get there. He always says, the two 168 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: most underrated words in the English language are over and next, 169 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: and if there was a hammock in the middle of 170 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: those two words, that would be the best definition of 171 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: living at the moment. Oh well, that's brilliant, that's so good. 172 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: I like that hammock idea. I know, but my mama 173 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: was used to say that you should hate the words 174 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: why and should into the backyard and I take a 175 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: really big hall and bury them, and then you would 176 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: have the hammock over the pit where Wyan should was. 177 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm liking all of this. Are we thinking about this 178 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: a lot? And that things are connecting? There? What person, 179 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: real or fictionalized, defines love feeling? My joke answer right 180 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: away was I was just gonna say Phantom Threat, Oh 181 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: my god, I love that film. Oh I would so 182 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: get that. You literally want someone to poison you and 183 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: then make you better. That's dark. I love it. But 184 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: for the sake of not sounding um like a psychotic person. 185 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: So I'm going to say both of my parents offered 186 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: different things, and I grew up with many divorces over 187 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: and over, and both of them beyond remaining amicable amongst 188 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: each other, they both I don't know. I guess my 189 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: idea of love for my dad is because he didn't 190 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: raise me day today. He was there on the weekends. 191 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: The thing that I always think about is he did 192 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: some things that annoyed me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeaheah whatever, 193 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: But anytime he said he was going to be there, 194 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: he was there. I don't know if that's a tragically 195 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: low bar, but no, to be reliable, to have a 196 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: sense of safety in the world, oh my god. Yeah, 197 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I think that's actually a great unsung tent pole in 198 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: one's life, is being able to depend on someone. Yeah 199 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: he showed up and give a ship. And quite honestly, 200 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: that's basically the philosophy I've tried to take in my 201 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: own life. Quincy Jones father has this quote, and it's 202 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: like I read it every week and everyone on our 203 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: team reads it. Which is um, be the labor great 204 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: or small, do it well or not at all? And 205 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: I think about this about everything it's exhausting. By the way. 206 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: It's like I'm taking out the trash. It's like just 207 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: to take it out and make sure the neighbors don't 208 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: ruin their basket, you know, just do it right, and 209 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: I should just like toss it sometimes because they're rude neighbors. 210 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna get into that. It's just everything 211 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: in my life. I think about that. And that's what 212 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: my dad and my mom both they both that they 213 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: showed up when they probably want to, and they gave 214 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: a ship. And that's that's love for me right now. 215 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: Or it's phanom thread by the way, I think it 216 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: can be both. I think it's fanom thread for you. 217 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean having people who like not so 218 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: much my parents really, but just the relationships that I 219 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: had with men, it was always it was like, ta, 220 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: they showed up. Oh my fucking god, where have they gone? Wait? 221 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: I was just getting settled in this and then something 222 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: would happen for it to disappear, which makes me then think, yeah, 223 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: the phantom thread version that relationships are about manipulation, the 224 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: idea of abandonment, then the opposite of that being somebody stays. 225 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: But oh god, this is getting really dark. I like 226 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: your parents version of the definition of love and the 227 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: phantom thread. Say what you're going to say, Well, it's 228 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: really just that idea that if enough people disappeared, like 229 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: a love relationships, from the relationship when you love them, 230 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: eventually you think, oh, I have to do something to 231 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: make them stay that I'm not doing. So then the 232 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: phantom thread idea of trying to kill some one and 233 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: then you healing them doesn't become quite such a strange idea. 234 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, did you know that someone was 235 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: going to leave before they left or was it always 236 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: a surprise? Well, that's really what any best friend or 237 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: shrink would tell you is in the rubble of your 238 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: relationship to go back and look for the red flags, 239 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: and invariably I could see them afterwards. But at the 240 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: time now no real proper blindness in love, me just useless. 241 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to imagine this because you seem 242 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: very observant, You're self aware, and love was the leveler. 243 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: I could never see it. Yeah, I could never see it. 244 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: In the thing, I could just never see it. And 245 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: then afterwards like, oh my god, how could I not 246 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: see Because one guy who was one of the great 247 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: loves of my life. Like we were on this huge 248 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: cliff walk, like a really dangerously close to a death 249 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: drop of a cliff in Cornwall and England. Oh literally, 250 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: there's not a metaphor you literally we were on with 251 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of people. We were doing this walk. We 252 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: were walking for like five miles to a restaurant, and 253 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: he'd sort of been running and he'd been running the 254 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: path and then running backwards and then suddenly he just 255 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: didn't come back and he was gone, and he was 256 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: gone for like forty minutes, and I thought he was dead, 257 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: and my sister and my mother were like, he's definitely 258 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: not dead. And I was like, how do you know? 259 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: And I got into this hysteria, and both my mother 260 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: and my sister were like, something's up, because when he 261 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: did reappear, he had a really terrible excuse about having 262 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: to go off and peace somewhere private or something, and 263 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: everybody knew something was up, Like everybody secretly knew that 264 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: he'd gone off to call this woman he was having 265 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: a relationship with, which is exactly what he was doing, 266 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: except me, who was like, no, he's dead, He's dead 267 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: and gone, and I mean I just useless at reading 268 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: the tea leaves, Well, I think you're being hard on yourself. Well, 269 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: he was a total dick, So I mean, you know 270 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: I didn't like mother, to be honest, Yeah, exactly. You 271 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: never liked him. He would have You would have told 272 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: me that. I would have said, hey, Minnie, we just met. 273 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: But it does not take four hi men, it's it 274 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: doesn't even take forty minutes to pooh. It doesn't even 275 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: take forty minutes to be like, why he said pie 276 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: and not poo. Also, if you're having an affair with 277 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: someone like why would you try and sanitize anything anymore? 278 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: Goes bananas? Not that good of a liar, a terrible lie. 279 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: And I think he must have on some level been 280 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: rolling his eyes that, like, when is she going to 281 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: get it? I never did get it. You know, I 282 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: want my romantic partners to be good liars and and 283 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: good at breaking up and try and kill you with soup. 284 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: You want to get phantom threaded. Look, if someone's going 285 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: to be a really good and dustarly lover, you want 286 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: them to phantom thread you. I want to be fantom threaded. Hey, 287 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know. It's honest, It's sucked up, 288 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: but it's honest. I love the Phantoms Thread. I love 289 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: that movie. I love how she pulls the coffee. It 290 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: makes me want to punch her. Oh absolutely, you know, 291 00:14:45,240 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: she pulls the water really high on the ground. So 292 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: in your life, can you tell me about something that 293 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: has grown out of the personal disaster. When I was twenty, 294 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: which is not that long ago, it feels long now, 295 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: it's been seven years. When I was twenty, I decided 296 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I was going to leave school, and I got this 297 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: offer from a really tiny, tiny publishing company to write 298 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: a book. The book was going to be called Talk 299 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: Easy Conversations with the Filmmakers of the Future or something 300 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: like that. That's when I was doing that kind of 301 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: interview writing work. And so I left school and I 302 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: started writing this and then by chance, at a film 303 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: festival it was in Toronto, i met someone and they 304 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: were offered a job they didn't want, and it was 305 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: to be the creative director of this art house theater 306 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: in San Francisco where I went to school, incidentally called 307 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: the Roxy. I don't know if you've ever been, but 308 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: it's called the Roxy Theater in San Francisco. It's one 309 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: of the oldest art house theaters in the country. He's 310 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: been around since the late twenties. It's definitely the oldest 311 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: one in California, I'm pretty sure. And they needed a 312 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: creative director, and I had done enough film work I 313 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: guessed to be in the conversation to get this job. Anyway, 314 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: skip ahead. I get the job. Obviously, in hindsight, hiring 315 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: a twenty year old to save an eighty year old institution, 316 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: non for profit with no programmatic experience, not the best idea. 317 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Not the best like junior creative director wearing like a 318 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: bow tie. I didn't wear a bow tie, but you can, 319 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: you get it. And so I do this job, and um, 320 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm not good at it. I mean, honestly, I'm I'm 321 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: not I've never done it before. I'm programming movies and 322 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm helping manage the staff of people, and I'm bringing 323 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: in people from around the country to come and do 324 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: you know Q and I and all these things, and 325 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm doing the best I can. But I'm also twenty 326 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: and then twenty one, and I'm twenty one, like in 327 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: an apartment and trying to be like an adult, and 328 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: it's a joke. I'm just not qualified. And by the 329 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: end of this run of doing it for about eight months, 330 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: I'm let go now. We said I left, but really 331 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: it was I was pretty much asked to leave, and 332 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: I was trying to traumatize because I was a twenty 333 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: one year old in a nonprofit working with other adults 334 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: in the thirties, forties and fifties. The point is I 335 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: didn't do the job particularly well. But the one good 336 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: thing that came from it is that every night I 337 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: had to do these Q and a's on stage. And 338 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: you've done many Q and his Q and a s 339 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: are terrible. They're They're usually horrible experiences where the audience says, 340 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: like ninety seven things and then they asked, like, what 341 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: was it like to work with Matt Damon in your case? 342 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: Oh god, it's so true that that's the question. I 343 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: think I've been asked more than do I want worship 344 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: with my mail? Yeah, which I'm sure if you're not 345 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: going to give a real answer to that, and why 346 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: would you? These Q and a's are terrible, But the 347 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: good part of this is that for seven days a week, 348 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: I had to moderate these conversations, and I had to 349 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: do these interviews over and over and over again. Some 350 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: are great, Some are bad in front of people, in 351 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: front of like an audience that's like trying to be interested. 352 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: And that's where talk Easy was born, the show, because 353 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: it came from me doing these Q and a's on 354 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: stage and kind of failing over and over and then 355 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: slowly getting better. And so what was a traumatic experience 356 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: of doing this job and failing publicly in front of people, 357 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: not just the audience, but amongst the staff, amongst like 358 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: board members, Like imagine like a twenty one year old 359 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: trying to impress board members that have money, Like I 360 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: was so ont of my depths, And what came from 361 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: that is the show. And so I'm grateful for that. 362 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: But it was a personal disaster. And the thing about disaster, 363 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, when a tornado happens, you're not ever thinking, 364 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: but you know in three days, like we're going to 365 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: have a great meal. You're not thinking about the meal. 366 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: You don't even know there is going to be a meal. 367 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: It's just a disaster. It's just a goddamn disaster. How 368 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: do I get out of it? And so that was 369 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: a very long winding story. I love that though, because 370 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: that's a proper It did not work out. It ended 371 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: up with me getting canned, like any which way, you 372 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: apparently splice that it's not good and yet that's couldn't 373 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: be further from the truth. Failia. It's such a weird 374 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: word to me because there's so much gifting in it invariably, 375 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: which doesn't mean it's not agony. But again, two things 376 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: can be true. How have you processed it? Because as 377 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: an actor, it's one of the most agonizing jobs in 378 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: this way of are you getting this ongoing? Yeah, it's ongoing, 379 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: and it's literally you. It's someone saying you're okay, You're 380 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: not okay. It's literally someone going not you. And then 381 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: you think that asking why will make it better, But 382 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: what happens is they actually tell you, and then it's 383 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: even more personal and dreadful because it really is you 384 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: that they are saying no to hard, no to you Mini. 385 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: So how do you? How do you deal? Know? You 386 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: go crazy and you end up doing a podcast like 387 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: this where you sound absolutely bat ship the whole time. 388 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: You know what, you start seeing it as being as 389 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: opposed to the the awful idea of a snake. You 390 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: think it's tale, it's the good version of that, which 391 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: is it is all the same. What you, cause failure 392 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: is also success and vice versa. There are a huge 393 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: senses that I've had that didn't help me at or 394 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: didn't teach me, so I think it doesn't ever stop 395 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: being hard, but now I really can laugh about it more. 396 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: And part of why I like social media it's before 397 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: when years celebrity or an acting, there was no recourse. 398 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: There was no way of rejoining ship that people would 399 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: say about you, And now I love that there is, 400 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: which makes it so much easier. If there has been 401 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: some kind of slight or something that is misunderstood, there's 402 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: a way of actually interrogating and usually humorously putting that 403 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: out there, which I like to make fun of the 404 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: stuff that is hard, to take the sting out of it, 405 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: but also to get over it, you know. And I 406 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: think in my case of this story, when I was 407 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: twenty getting the job, I didn't think, that's kind of 408 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: funny that they're giving job. Well, because we have Hubris 409 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 1: and you're twenty, of course they give it to me. 410 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: I thought, Yeah, the San Francisco Chronicle, they should write 411 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: the story about it. It's going to be great. And 412 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: then in hindsight, I'm my for one, that haircut is 413 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: not good on me, not for bad, bad, the outfit 414 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: even worse, the attitude somehow worse. I mean, there made 415 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: no sense, I mean no sense. I love that. I 416 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: love that for you. You love the failure for me. 417 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: I'd love that failure for you. And it's perfect because 418 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: it gave you something really foundational. You know, if you 419 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: can't remember how you got the good things, then you're 420 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: a real dummy, because how you got the good things 421 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: was what Norman said, that every moment and every second, 422 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: it took all of it to get to that, and 423 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: that required a lot of goofs and gaffs and failures, 424 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: and some have them more public than others, but we 425 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: all have them in our lives no matter what you do. 426 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: But I do wish this is the hope I have 427 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: getting older, that the gap between something good happening and 428 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: making that recognition that it took all these things to 429 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: get there, that that gap lessons and then I'm more 430 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: appreciative more quickly. That is the hope. That is a 431 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: hope I think that does happen. I hope that happens 432 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: for you, has happened for you totally, because it's like 433 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: you realize the crazy expectations you put on yourself when 434 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: you're young, or I know that I did that in 435 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: order to be happy, it has to look like this, 436 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: and it's like, wow, that may happen if you're lucky 437 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: once maybe twice. To stopping having that expectation, that's what 438 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: sets you free. And then things that you didn't realize 439 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: we're going to make you happy make you happy. So 440 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: actually it's in a huge expansiveness that happens with getting 441 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: older that nobody talks about what is the quality, like 442 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: least about yourself. I think because I try to maximize 443 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: every moment, every situation. And that's true not just on 444 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: microphone but in my life with friends, and it's exhausting. 445 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm controlling and it works well as a podcast host, 446 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: it works well as a filmmaker, but there's a part 447 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: of me that has a really hard time being the 448 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: passenger in any situation. To be fair, I have terrible 449 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: motion sickness, So that is true. I just don't I 450 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: don't let go easily. I'd like to figure that out. 451 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm also a big I don't know where this comes from. 452 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: I think childhood, but a big post game review kind 453 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: of person. So I grew up playing sports, and you 454 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: know how, after a basketball game happens, or any sporting event, 455 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: the commentators come on and they say, God, like Lebron James, 456 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: like you really didn't do that? Well tonight will? That's 457 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: like basically what I look forward to sometimes after a 458 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: party is with my friends being like, can you believe 459 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: that fucking idiot? Can I swear in here? Yes you can. 460 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: Sometimes I get too negative. I'm reviewing every interaction and 461 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: saying like, yeah, that person was kind of a schmucker. God, 462 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: I can't believe that person married that person. So I'm 463 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: overly critical and I'm controlling. Those are my answers. What 464 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: do you think would would happen if you did let go? 465 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: Do you have a sort of image of yourself in 466 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: a kind of gauzy state being led by someone else 467 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: and like, finally just feeling sort of like I don't 468 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: agree with Guss And in one of those movies from 469 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: the forties, she's just floating through a garden. Is that 470 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: what letting Go feels like you? Or is it terrible? Yes? 471 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: It feels like every forties film. For me, it feels 472 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: like every single moment of his Girl Friday when it's 473 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: working that film so much. No, I don't know what 474 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,239 Speaker 1: that looks like. And I think if I had an 475 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: image of who that looks like or what that looks like, 476 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: I may be quicker to embrace letting go. But I 477 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: don't know. What I know is what it's not, which 478 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: is not being as anxious or not feeling like I 479 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: have to control the lighting or the music at a 480 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: thing in that part, I would love to let go. 481 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: I would love to let go. Do you have to 482 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: be on the demis switch. I don't have to be, 483 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: but it's better if you are. You know. I'm just 484 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: making some adjustments that I think we'll all agree on. 485 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: Oh my god, ye so funny. I've made sounds with big, 486 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: big personalities, both male and female, and someone was like, 487 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: you're being really I think they said beta. I would 488 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: say beta, you'd be really beta, like on the set 489 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: with this person like, how is that? Because you're really alpha? 490 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, here's the thing. What I'm 491 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: good at is actually realizing that it's more important for 492 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: someone to be alpha than it is for me to 493 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: be alpha. And actually the most alpha thing you can 494 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: do in a situation where someone wants to be alpha 495 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: is be beta. So basically what I'm saying is, if 496 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: you really needed to be on the dimmer switch, I 497 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: would fucking let you. And I have let people be 498 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: on the dimmer switch in movies where it might have 499 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: been better if I didn't. Well, this sounds great for you, 500 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering how it's going to translate for me. 501 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: It's really interesting, particularly people have the expectation that you're 502 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: going to stand up and go funck. Now, you can't 503 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: do this, you can't do that, stop it. I want 504 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: to do that. I think it's just good to think about. 505 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: It's like, in the next moment where you're really wanting 506 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: to be on the dimmer switch, if you go, well, 507 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: maybe if I let them be on it and see 508 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: what happens. I love it. I'm convinced. The next question, no, no, no, 509 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: what I was thinking about it. You said something that 510 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: triggered a whole bunch of memories, which is I have 511 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: let other people. We've really taken this metaphor very far, 512 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: but move the dimmer switch up and down. And what 513 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: happens is if they're used to you controlling the lighting, 514 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: whatever the plans, when you're not, there's almost like a 515 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: paralysis that happens, at least amongst my pals. So I 516 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: have to let go, though, I have to just let 517 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: it be. I think it's kind of interesting just doing 518 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: something differently. Maybe it is this past two years of 519 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: just going, well, what's the fucking worst that can happen? 520 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: It's all happening, so just to see what that looks 521 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: like and if it doesn't work out, that's actually also fine. 522 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: When did you figure that out that you needed to 523 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: sometimes take a step back for the other person to 524 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: step into their element. Honestly, on a set with my 525 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: son was very small with an actor who was really 526 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: there were a lot like it was hardcore, like that 527 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: process was a lot the way that they were on 528 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: set with a lot and this whole idea of going, 529 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: if I've sort of fight for what it is I 530 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: want to do here and how I want to do it, 531 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: it's going to cause so much trouble. And I had 532 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: a panic, going, well, how am I going to do 533 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: my job if I don't get to do it like 534 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: I need to? But if I do it like I 535 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: need to, it's going to piss this woman off. And 536 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: I then realized that it would actually be really interesting 537 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: to go they clearly need it, they need it more. 538 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: And what if it's a high degree of difficulty and 539 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: it's actually more interesting if I try and figure out 540 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: how to do my ship without doing what I normally 541 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: do and asking for the things that I normally need. 542 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: What if I just tried that, Because I could really 543 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: see that she was looking for something to hang her 544 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: stuff on, and it could very easily have been me. 545 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: It did feel like being a superhero or some form 546 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: of like Judah, like you've cracked the code or something, 547 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of like it took all that energy, all that 548 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: expectation that she was going to have a big fight 549 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: with me, and just didn't do anything except allow her 550 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: to get everything that she needed. And I didn't feel smart. 551 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. Actually, I feel like having a kid. 552 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: I think it was probably Henry. It probably was. That 553 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: was like I'm making milk and like feeding my baby. 554 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: If you need to do what you need to do, 555 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: go ahead, I'll just be over here making milk. That 556 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: is the part of parents today. I'm looking forward to, 557 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: not the milk part, but just I don't know something 558 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: about it feels deeply humbling and probably in a good way. Yeah, 559 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: I see those kids with their parents. They don't really 560 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: care about their parents. And they don't care that you 561 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: didn't win an oscar at seven. No, they really don't. 562 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: They don't care about any of the stuff that we 563 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: think we care about, Like, they just don't. There's such 564 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: a relief in that because you actually get to be 565 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: the most unadulterated version of yourself because they don't know 566 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 1: what your best qualities are. They just want food and 567 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: love and pepper Pig. What's that? Oh, you'll find out 568 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: pepper Pig will rule your life one day. Sam, It's 569 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: a cartoon. You sounds like you just joined a cold 570 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: When you've watched every every episode of pepper Pig, it's 571 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: sort of like you have joined a cult, poor signed cult. 572 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: Check it out. Just google pepper Pig and watch it a 573 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: a little episode. It's an English cartoon. Absolutely will not 574 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: what person, place, or experience has most aughted to your life. 575 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: When I was fifteen, I moved to California from Chicago. 576 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: It sounds like I made the move. I was moved. 577 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: People broke up. I moved really strange to go to 578 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: a high school and have to meet three thousand new kids, 579 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: And I did the best I could, but honestly, for 580 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: the majority of my sophomore year of high school, I 581 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: would spend lunch in the library watching old Ebert and 582 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: Cisco videos as they reviewed movies from and nineties. Then 583 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: I would watch them on the late night shows, and 584 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: I would obsess over these tapes. Because at the time 585 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: I was a film critic. I was writing all these 586 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: reviews on the weekends, and in that lunchtime, I would 587 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: immerse myself in these two middle aged guys, in part 588 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: because I didn't have friends. At the end of high school. 589 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: As I continued, I went to a festival called Ebert Fest. 590 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: Roger created it. It's down in Champagne, and again I'm 591 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: from Chicago, so there's added significance, and my father and 592 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I went. At this point, Roger had a cancer where 593 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: he couldn't speak anymore. But at the end of the 594 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: weekend he was signing everyone's book and I was like, 595 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't really want to do this. I really want 596 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: to go home, but my dad said, look, we're not 597 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: going until you go up to him. So I went 598 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: up to him. I gave him my little business card 599 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: that had a sad blog domain where I wrote all 600 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: these reviews, and an email and I wrote a little 601 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: note on the back and he signed the book. We 602 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: went on and at the end of my junior year, 603 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: on lunch break, I remember sitting in my car and 604 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: I get an email from him and it says, dear Sam, 605 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: I read your stuff. It sounds good. You can be 606 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: a writer, film critic or otherwise. But by the way, 607 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't include your age on the website in these times. 608 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: Who knows. And that was it. And that note, you know, 609 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: at seventy eighteen, when you come from where I've come from, 610 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: that changed everything. It basically said, give it a go. 611 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: And if you don't, you know, you're a real idiot. 612 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: So I gave it a go. I think it's so 613 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: amazing that idea of incidental mentorship. I think about the 614 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: things that people have said to me, things that were 615 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: said in passing that had exactly what you just said. 616 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: He was seventeen, sitting in your car, you received this 617 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: email and it actually changed your life. And I guarantee 618 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: he was not thinking about that when he wrote it. 619 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: He was just, Oh, that kid. Oh. I listened to 620 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: a couple of his things that was just him being 621 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: a good just being a good person. It's amazing, like 622 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: that kind of relay. He didn't know that he was 623 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: handing you up baton, but he was. And I love that. 624 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: It's a remarkable thing. And it's something I think about 625 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: all the time because you and I are talking on 626 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: microphones in a fairly charmed existence. And if you don't 627 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: have gratitude and if you don't try to pay that 628 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: forward in some way, even if it's just an email, 629 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: an incident, mentorship. It took a moment for him. It 630 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: took him less than three minutes. Imagine that you changed 631 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: someone's life in three minutes. The doors wing open. I 632 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: like that there's magic in the things that one says 633 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: that you don't know that you were meaningful. It's like 634 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: Norman Lear, Norman Lear laughing and looking so kindly at me. 635 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: Just go and just get to the end of the song. 636 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: It totally blows, but just get to the end and 637 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be done. Like that's really good advice. 638 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: And that was just going a look, I've no I've 639 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: been changed by a lot of people who don't know 640 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: that they helped me. That's for sure, So we must 641 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: do it ourselves. Incidentally, if you're interested in people, at 642 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: least For me, Talk Easy is literally a show about 643 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: other people. I think being preoccupied with other people is 644 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: it's a worthwhile venture. I've never really learned anything from 645 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: talking myself. Maybe we share that. Listening to other people's 646 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: thoughts about the world and what they think is such 647 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: a great respite from being in the echo chamber of 648 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: my own brain not being able to answer questions. I'd 649 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: much rather ask people questions and get them to answer, 650 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: and then I can go, oh, God, yeah, God, and 651 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: then add that into whatever my four o'clock in the 652 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: morning echo e head is saying, I think you're right. 653 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: I've done almost three episodes of the Showdow, it's so impressive, Like, 654 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: that's a lot of talking. Well. I started when I 655 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: was I like specific questions, like all of the kind 656 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: of like speculative looks that goes on and on being 657 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: interviewed for years and years. When you're a hundred, you 658 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: really appreciate the brevity of what did you have for breakfast? 659 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: That I can answer. Well, when you come on Talk Easy, yes, 660 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: I'll ask my specific questions, yes, and I'll try not 661 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: to get to well, we'll get existential. It's impossible not to. Well, 662 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: that's the thing. I mean, I've realized it is good 663 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: to talk about these specific things because I do think 664 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: they lean into other stuff. I think they're big enough 665 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: questions that they balloon into other things so that we 666 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: see the thing is what's revealing about it. The level 667 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: of interrogation is maybe interesting to one person, is scary 668 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: and toxic to another, and will actually reveal stuff that 669 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: they don't want to be revealed. Largely, people want to 670 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: keep their heads in the sand. And I know that 671 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: because I am a fucking Ostrich. You know about a 672 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: lot of things. Part of this show was like, No, 673 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: you have to face it. You have to face these 674 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: hard questions. You have to. I have to. It's funny 675 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: I always say them about you. You're really like an Ostrich. Really, um. 676 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: I think the emotional interrogation is utterly terrifying for most 677 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 1: people because it's a house of cards, Like literally and figurative, 678 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: it is a house of cards, just keeping everything together, 679 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: with the debt, the payments, the social constructs, the parenting, 680 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: the professional success, the love and the sex. We barely 681 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: hold it together most of the time. And it doesn't 682 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: take an enormous man, which is why I think people 683 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: just can't fathom it. I kind of admire that you 684 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: have seven that you hit as opposed to every week. 685 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I have to reinvent the does the 686 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: person though? When you're doing your podcast, doesn't the person 687 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: help you reinvent the wheel a bit themselves because they're 688 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: either super vibos or they're really not a ricalcitrint. You 689 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: have to pull it out of them. I never say 690 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: ricalc I love that word. It's my favorite word. Everything 691 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 1: about me feels ricalcitrant right now, except doing this podcast. 692 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: I know I can feel some of it through you 693 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: in the zoom. I have this quality. It's I unfortunately 694 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: absorbed whatever the other person feels. Oh my goodness, you're 695 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: a zoom em path. What a nightmare for you. I'm 696 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: a normal EmPATH even zoom. It's not broken it. You 697 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: are so amazing, you really are. It is an absolute 698 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: pleasure to have talked to you, and I can't wait 699 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: to come on your podcast many driver, Thank you very much. 700 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: You can hear Sam's podcast Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso 701 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: every Sunday, were ever you listen to your podcasts to 702 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: learn more about his work and view the show's library 703 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: of over two hundred and fifty episodes. Visit talkisipod dot com. 704 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: Coming up soon, you can hear episodes with Stacy Abrams, 705 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: Margaret Atwood and many more. Mini Questions is hosted and 706 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: written by Me Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer 707 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby 708 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: by Mini Driver, Additional music by Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced 709 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: by Me Mini Driver. Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, 710 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: Addison No Day, Lisa Castella and a Unique Oppenheim at 711 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: w kPr, de La Pescador, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, 712 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: And for constantly solicited tech support, Henry Driver.