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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people, get cool stuff. My

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Speaker 1: name is Margaret Kiljoy. And I will not continue the

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Speaker 1: bit where I set up the expectation that I will

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Speaker 1: tell a new joke eating introduction, because if I do,

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Speaker 1: my life will get so much worse and I don't

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Speaker 1: have enough jokes. Sophie, you got joke, Sharen, anyone.

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Speaker 2: SuRie is like the funniest person right now. Hey, no pressure.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I have a joke right now.

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Speaker 2: A lot of my jokes are like annoyingly visual, Like

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Speaker 2: my go to is like the daddiest joke, not Daddy's Like.

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Speaker 1: Daddy joke is very different joke.

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Speaker 2: But let me think. I mean I just explaining to

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Speaker 2: you can use yourragination. But basically you put your hand

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Speaker 2: up as like a little cup, like you're making your

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Speaker 2: hand into a U shape. Uh, and you ask people

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Speaker 2: what is that? What is this? And they're like, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing? You're a weirdo. And then you put

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Speaker 2: your upper forearm from the other arm on it and

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Speaker 2: you're like, it's a gun.

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Speaker 1: Rack.

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Speaker 2: I love that joke.

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Speaker 1: Because muscles are guns.

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Speaker 2: Hellya guns?

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'm gonna.

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Speaker 2: I think it's funny because that's the only gun that

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Speaker 2: I approve of. Everybody knock who's there? Eats too me?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Sophie, Okay, I got a knock knock joke. Ea,

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Speaker 1: start knock, knock, who's there?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is your joke. That's the point of the joke.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is your bit, Like you know, I got nothing. Okay.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Sharene Shreen. How are you doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good. I actually am excited about the

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Speaker 2: continuation of the story because you've definitely got me intrigued,

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Speaker 2: and not much can do that these days.

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Speaker 1: So hell yeah, cliffhangers for the wind. Yes, Sophie is

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Speaker 1: our producer, Hi.

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Speaker 2: Sophie, him Margaret, Hi Scheren. I like this little trio.

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Speaker 1: I like, hey, this is fun. And Ian is our editor.

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Speaker 1: He's in charge of editing. Now the parts where Sophie

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Speaker 1: reveals the secret of the Alchemist's Stone and unwoman wrote

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Speaker 1: our theme music. So this is part two of our

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Speaker 1: two part series of women who murdered their husbands, or

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Speaker 1: rather well the people who provided the poison. Good times

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Speaker 1: were had by all, except potentially the husbands.

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Speaker 2: Which deserved it probably, So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Many of them. So we heard about the legend of

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Speaker 1: Aqua tafauna, the cosmetic poison made by one brilliant poison lady.

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Speaker 1: So let's figure out what we know of the truth.

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Speaker 1: We will start in pal Marrow, a city in southern Italy.

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Speaker 1: Well it's in Sicily, which is part of Spain at

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Speaker 1: the time, where we meet two aspiring widows, so Fania

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Speaker 1: Diadama and Francesca Lasarda. And they were part of a

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Speaker 1: thriving scene in Italy which someone describing a similar community

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Speaker 1: in Paris referred to as the criminal magical underworld.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm.

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Speaker 1: Rome, for example, at the time, had upwards of two

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Speaker 1: hundred magical practitioners. We don't actually know how many Palmero had.

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Speaker 1: But you know, as a capital of the region.

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Speaker 2: What qualifies as magical question?

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Speaker 1: Oh, we will tell you.

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Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah.

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Speaker 1: Did I set that up perfectly? Everyone who couldn't go

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Speaker 1: to the proper channels of like doctors with leeches, would

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Speaker 1: go to magicians on the street who would sell them

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Speaker 1: shit that honestly was probably about as effective as what

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Speaker 1: the leech doctors had on offer. There were witches, they

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Speaker 1: were sorcerers, and they were priests. The underworld included and

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Speaker 1: possibly revolved around these priests who had gone all in

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Speaker 1: for evil shit and lived double lives and led black masses.

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Speaker 1: And this, okay, I'll get to what I do and

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Speaker 1: don't believe of this particular part. But these evil priests

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Speaker 1: would live double lives, lead black masses with naked women

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Speaker 1: as the altar in order to imbue different potions and

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Speaker 1: saves and shit with magic. And they chanted in a

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Speaker 1: made up mystical language that they all came both together,

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Speaker 1: that was just Latin and Greek and Hebrew while stuck

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Speaker 1: together basically like all the old timy languages they had

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Speaker 1: access to.

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Speaker 2: That's fun.

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Speaker 1: And they weren't quite like Satanists. Their magic supposedly came

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Speaker 1: from God, just in really weird ways. They would use

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Speaker 1: blessed wands to make potions in the shadow of a

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Speaker 1: cross that contained a fragment of the true Cross, while

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Speaker 1: like leading black masses with naked ladies as the altar.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't sure I believed any of this shit,

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Speaker 1: uh huh, But there are a ton of documents from

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Speaker 1: the time attesting to it and lots of confessions. Although

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Speaker 1: come on, witch huns and inquisitions. I don't trust the confessions,

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Speaker 1: but I think some of the shit was actually real.

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Speaker 1: I believe it. Yeah, to quote the historian Mike dash

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Speaker 1: this quote, just because it's fucking cool. Raids conducted by

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Speaker 1: the police on the Paris underworld of the sixteen eighties

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Speaker 1: uncombed quantities of Grimour's incense, wands, and a rich vervariety

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Speaker 1: of ingredients used in sexual magic, including breast milk and

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Speaker 1: bags of powdered menstrual blood.

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Speaker 2: Humm, how do you make that into a powder? I

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Speaker 2: guess it's like you just dry it out and crush

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Speaker 2: it up. That's interesting. Well, I also we still do

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Speaker 2: not everybody, but the culture of witchiness is still alive

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Speaker 2: and well, whether it comes to like crystals or even

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Speaker 2: like even meditation, in my opinion, can be a form

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Speaker 2: of that kind of energetic change. So are even like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know it, just I think it's very interesting

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Speaker 2: how it's evolved, but it's still here.

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Speaker 1: Very much, totally opinion, And like a lot of it

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Speaker 1: is super legit and a lot of it's not. And

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Speaker 1: it's impossible to tell who's a grifter and who's legit,

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Speaker 1: just like back then. Mm hmmm, Because I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of the shit that people did probably fucking worked, right,

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Speaker 1: because you could go to the magical underworld and get

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Speaker 1: an abortion, and you could get poison and you get

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Speaker 1: general heat, you could get fortunes and horoscopes, you could

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Speaker 1: get love charms, you could get cures for your bad breath.

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Speaker 1: Whatever ailed you, they'd take care of you, no questions asked.

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Speaker 1: They would sell stillborn fetuses to gamblers who used them

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Speaker 1: as good luck charms.

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Speaker 2: WHOA.

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Speaker 1: They also dealt with quote unwanted babies, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether that means abortion and fanticide or selling children

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Speaker 1: through underground adoption services or to slave traders. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea, Honestly, I kind of think it was all

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Speaker 1: of the above at the time. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: you have this magical not underworld that was flourishing, right

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Speaker 1: because science and magic are fucking at the time, and

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Speaker 1: Royalty was dumping tons of money on alchemists, who the

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Speaker 1: most famous thing that alchemists were trying to do was

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Speaker 1: like transmute base metals into gold. They were like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: turn lead into gold or whatever. But then they were

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Speaker 1: also trying to cure disease and live forever and improve

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Speaker 1: crop yields and basically just like do science and magic

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Speaker 1: all put together. And while not everyone involved in madge

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Speaker 1: alchemy were up to the poison thing, these two women

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Speaker 1: they They might have done some other shit. They probably

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Speaker 1: sold charms and potions or whatever, but they also sold poison.

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Speaker 1: It's likely that Tofania was who invented aqua tafauna named

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Speaker 1: after herself. It's also possible they just sold people arsenic

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Speaker 1: and I suspect that they were breaking the law by

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Speaker 1: working without their husband's permission, which is just terrible. I

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Speaker 1: bet their husbands and even what they were doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they did. They reached their main aspiration, which was

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Speaker 1: to become widows. As best as I could tell, they

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Speaker 1: both off their husbands in order to return to the

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Speaker 1: status of free people. But it didn't go well for

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Speaker 1: these two particular women. First Francesca and then Tofania went

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Speaker 1: down for the magic trick of turning their husbands into corpses.

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Speaker 1: So the state pulled the magic trick of turning them

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Speaker 1: into corpses by a bit more gruesome of a method.

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Speaker 1: So for all of the like, oh, these like evil poisoners,

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Speaker 1: like the shit that happens to people is from the

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Speaker 1: state is so much worse than what these fucking poisoners

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Speaker 1: are doing. So Fanio was either hang drawled, and quartered,

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Speaker 1: or one account at the time says that she was

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Speaker 1: sewn up alive into a canvas sack and then thrown

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Speaker 1: from the roof of the bishop's palace into the street

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Speaker 1: in front of a large crowd. Well that's brutal, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think they pulled off being poisoners for a

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Speaker 1: long time though, and maybe had a good run of

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Speaker 1: it before they got thrown from sacks from the bishop's roof,

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Speaker 1: so maybe it was all worth it. And most everything

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Speaker 1: focuses on this other woman, Julia Tufana, who was born

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Speaker 1: Julia Mangiarti and legend hazrus to Fania's daughter who learned

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Speaker 1: the trade from Mom and then after Mom's execution, took

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Speaker 1: off to Rome with some of the other students to

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Speaker 1: set up a poison shop in the big city. And

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Speaker 1: apparently it was a vaguely normal thing at the time

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Speaker 1: in Italy or Sicily or whatever for a woman to

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Speaker 1: take her mother's first name as her own last name.

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Speaker 1: It seems just as likely that she took the name

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Speaker 1: Tafauna as a last name because she was selling Aqua tafauna.

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Speaker 1: It also seems possible that she never went by Tafauna

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Speaker 1: and this is the name that folklore has described to her,

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Speaker 1: and she spent her whole life going by Menngiarti. There's

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Speaker 1: no evidence that she was Tefani's kid Tefania's kid, but

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Speaker 1: there is also no evidence that she wasn't whatever. It's

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Speaker 1: also possible she left for Rome before any of that. Okay, whatever, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but aqua tafauna. The symptoms, according to a public notice

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Speaker 1: that was put out later once everyone got busted, were,

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Speaker 1: to quote the book Toxicology in the Middle Ages and

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Speaker 1: Renaissance in a chapter by Mike dash the symptoms were

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Speaker 1: a burning pain in the throat and stomach, vomiting, extreme thirst,

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Speaker 1: and diarrhea, all of which point to arsenic as the

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Speaker 1: active ingredient of the poison. The suggested antidote was lemon

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Speaker 1: juice and vinegar, and to continue the quote, Aqua tafana

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Speaker 1: was described as clear and tasteless, suggesting that a key

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Speaker 1: part of the manufacturing process was masking the character as

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Speaker 1: stick metallic taste of arsenic. It was also considered to

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Speaker 1: be a relatively gentle poison which did not produce so

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Speaker 1: much vomiting as and hence aroused less suspicious than other

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Speaker 1: preparations known at the time. So basically all of the

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Speaker 1: different poisons that you would get in on the street

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Speaker 1: that were any good were just different concoctions of arsenic

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Speaker 1: and it was just like people figuring out different ways

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Speaker 1: to like prepare the arsenic, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is interesting. I wonder how they did

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Speaker 2: mask that taste, because that's impressive.

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Speaker 1: I know, And I think that there's some suspicion that

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Speaker 1: they like did some masking to the taste, but not

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Speaker 1: actually as much as people claim. It was not as

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Speaker 1: perfect of a poisonous people claim it was a very

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Speaker 1: good poison. But mostly it was added to wine because wine.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, I was gonna say, like, if you had like

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Speaker 2: a couple drops to wine, it's probably not even traced, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or like you can't taste it at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Tafana wasn't alone. Her stepdaughter who just

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Speaker 1: happened to be a widow surprised there named Jialamas, Spara

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Speaker 1: or Spawna, depending on which book you read. Both books

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Speaker 1: are people are very committed to these different spellings, and

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Speaker 1: they're very legitimate seeming sources. Spara sold to the aristocratic

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Speaker 1: circles that she worked in as a professional astrologer, right,

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Speaker 1: so she would get hired to predict the future and

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Speaker 1: find missing objects and tell people about themselves and shit. Well,

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Speaker 1: Giovanna de Grandie sold to working class women. Mostly she

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Speaker 1: was a beggar, and she would hang out outside churches,

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Speaker 1: because churches where women could gather and talk. And there's

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Speaker 1: all these like cartoons at the time about how like

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Speaker 1: when women talk at church, it's the devil talking through them,

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Speaker 1: which most of the time is bullshit. But I guess

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Speaker 1: sometimes they were conspiring to kill all their husbands or whatever,

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Speaker 1: so whatever.

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Speaker 2: Every joke they say is a layer of truth.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and they also sold other shit, right. They

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Speaker 1: weren't just poisoners. They worked as cunning women or sometimes

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Speaker 1: wise women or divine arresses, and they were selling charms

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Speaker 1: and you know, telling portions and shit. Started exporting poison

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Speaker 1: to other cities too, through women they trusted, and they

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Speaker 1: had this whole regional distribution network for husband killing poison.

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Speaker 1: They found their clients not by you'll be shocked to

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Speaker 1: know this. They don't just like hang up a sign

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Speaker 1: and that like the you know, just like go into

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Speaker 1: an alley and there's a sign that it's like kill

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Speaker 1: your husband five dollars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They were fortune tellers and likely abortionists and all of that,

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Speaker 1: and so they would slowly learn who they could trust,

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Speaker 1: and they also learned who was stuck in unhappy marriages.

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Speaker 2: So it's like they're they're witches and tarot readers and

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Speaker 2: fortune tellers and therapists.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: like it's a necessary thing for society to have or

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Speaker 1: these people who provide all of these services. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: to make their poison, they needed arsenic and then actually,

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Speaker 1: theoretically the best guesses about Aqua tafauna is that it

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Speaker 1: had antinomy and lead and maybe mercuric chloride, which was

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Speaker 1: a treatment for venereal disease at the time, and my

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Speaker 1: guess what killed Bathory's husband, but I don't know, rather

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Speaker 1: than Bella Donna, which is what was like rumored to

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Speaker 1: be in it, because Bella Donna's a poison and it

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Speaker 1: you know, has a romantic sounding name, right right. There

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Speaker 1: are other things that were rumored to be in it,

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Speaker 1: including many of which I've never heard of before toad, flax,

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Speaker 1: Spanish fly, snap dragon, penny wart, and the spittle of

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Speaker 1: mad men.

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Speaker 2: The spittle of mad men.

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Speaker 1: I know, Like imagine being like someone whose job it

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Speaker 1: is to be like the madman who sells his spittle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like what if you went to therapy and you were

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Speaker 1: like feeling better, b to be like, no, I got

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Speaker 1: to keep it up. I might. My job depends on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I also because I am a dummy sometimes I

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Speaker 2: wanted to make sure I want. I don't know exactly

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Speaker 2: or I didn't know before I read it right now,

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Speaker 2: like where arsenic actually comes from? Okay, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Well it sounds like okay. Inorganic arsenic compounds, they're found

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Speaker 2: in soils, sediments, and groundwater. They either occur naturally or

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Speaker 2: as a result of mining or smelting and industrial use

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Speaker 2: of arsenic. Organic arsenic compounds are mainly found also in

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Speaker 2: fish and in shellfish. So I'm wondering, like how did

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Speaker 2: these women procure Ah?

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Speaker 1: This is perfect? That is literally the next sentence in

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Speaker 1: the script.

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Speaker 2: Oh hell, like see it was worth the little flip

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Speaker 2: fumble there, but like, yeah, it says arsenic is found

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Speaker 2: in the natural environment in some abundance in the Earth's

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Speaker 2: crust and in small quantities in rock, soil, water and

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Speaker 2: air like that is that's wild.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just a yeah, something to think about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So they needed arsenic. So they found a priest. They

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Speaker 1: found one of these sort of fallen priests that was

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier in the Magical Underworld. His name was

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Speaker 1: Father Girolama and his brother was an apothecary, and so

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Speaker 1: he hooked them up and this religious overlap continued. They

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Speaker 1: didn't always sell it as Aqua Tafauna, and it's actually

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Speaker 1: possible they never sold as Aqua tafauna, and that's just

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Speaker 1: like the myth name that gets attached to it. But

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Speaker 1: they definitely sold it for a while under the name

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Speaker 1: Mana of Saint Nicholas. And because when I first started

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Speaker 1: researching this, it would talk about how sold as holy

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Speaker 1: water or cosmetics. But the wacky thing is that it

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Speaker 1: was both at once. Speaking of skincare routines, Mana of

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Speaker 1: Saint Nicholas was meant to be the oil that dropped

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Speaker 1: from Saint Nicholas's bones where it was held in a church,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they like pour the oil over his bones.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, and this holy oil got sold in

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Speaker 1: the street as not as poison as a as a

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Speaker 1: kind of regular scam. So this holy oil when it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just poisonous, regular scam and it was sold for

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Speaker 1: the purpose of fighting acne and other facial blemishes. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: So this is what they labeled their poison as because

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Speaker 1: basically it's like the woman will have all of the

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Speaker 1: different you know, cosmetics on the shelf and the man

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Speaker 1: never touches any of it whatever, Right, so it's a

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Speaker 1: safe place to put it. And so they labeled it

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Speaker 1: in these like vials that look very holy and they

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Speaker 1: have Saint Nicholas on them or whatever. But it's just

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Speaker 1: meant to be this like fucking you know, face blemish

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Speaker 1: cream oil whatever.

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Speaker 2: Hey, facial oils are still used today. Oh yeah, people

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Speaker 2: stand by them. So it's like you're onto something again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't use an oil, use a cream. But

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Speaker 1: I also but I'm like, I like my crow's feet.

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Speaker 1: I want everything else to stay youthful, but.

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Speaker 2: I like my crows feet is like a sign of

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Speaker 2: like you've lived happy time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I get out in the sun enough the

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Speaker 1: forehead wrinkles. I would take some oil that dropped off

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Speaker 1: of Saint Nicholas's bones. Maybe the blood of innocence, especially billionaires,

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Speaker 1: the blood of Yeah, can we can, Sophie, can we

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Speaker 1: be sponsored by the blood of billionaires?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Why not?

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Speaker 1: Hell? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow, she's the best?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, it is it is that time? It's

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Speaker 1: that time. Well that you did that without even trying.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a husband, is he a great person?

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Speaker 1: If he's not a great person, are you living in

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Speaker 1: a time when divorce is not an option? Well, aqua

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Speaker 1: tafauna four drops administered to wine over the course of

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Speaker 1: four months, and you will be a widow. Here's some

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Speaker 1: other ads. We are back and speaking of people who

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Speaker 1: are mostly in it for the money, these women were

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Speaker 1: mostly in it for the money, right, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: their whole thing, which is like people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're in it for the money. I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're in it for the like means by which they

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Speaker 1: feed themselves and take care of their families, like win

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Speaker 1: a bunch of fucking monsters, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, because but I mean it's like freedom in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, like freedom from their husbands, but

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Speaker 2: also like money will give you freedom as.

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Speaker 1: Well, and in a lot of ways too right, totally,

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Speaker 1: it's the it's it's a agency in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that people have too much agency and

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Speaker 1: other people too little agency. But they did have some

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Speaker 1: altruistic moments, and in particular, they would give the poison

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Speaker 1: out for free to women who couldn't afford it, who

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Speaker 1: really needed to reach widowhood. Decades into her poisonous career,

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Speaker 1: at least twenty one years into it, probably longer than that.

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Speaker 1: Juliet Tafana died peacefully in her bed in sixteen fifty one.

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Speaker 1: She was like seventy years old. She didn't die from poison.

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Speaker 1: She'd never been caught. She lived her whole fucking life

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Speaker 1: as fucking and she's Actually it's possible she invented to

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Speaker 1: fauna and then like named it after her mentor you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and her friends, including possibly her stepdaughter,

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Speaker 1: carried on without her. And I tried really hard. I

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Speaker 1: think that I think this is enough of a pop

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Speaker 1: culture reference that I'll get Sophie's attention and love, which

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Speaker 1: is why I make this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I you get that for free.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks. So I tried to find an earl killed

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Speaker 1: by the gang because of the country song about killing

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Speaker 1: earl or almost die. Yeah, yeah, thanks, because I want

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Speaker 1: to make an earl's got to die doike. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't find an earl, but I did find a duke.

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Speaker 1: Francesco Ses, the Duke of Siri, was thirty years older

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Speaker 1: than his wife when he suddenly died, and she was

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Speaker 1: suddenly doing way better in life. But in sixteen fifty

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Speaker 1: eight the Poisoner's gang came to the attention of the authorities.

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Speaker 1: And I that's the way it's always phrased, right, I

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Speaker 1: struggle to imagine that they kept it up for thirty

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Speaker 1: years unnoticed. I bet they were paying someone off. They

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Speaker 1: were protected by some kind of crime syndicate or just

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Speaker 1: I don't know the Catholic Church, which was basically the

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Speaker 1: biggest crime syndicate in Rome at the time, because why

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Speaker 1: would they protect them, though I presume money is my

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Speaker 1: main guess. I presume that they were paying someone off

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Speaker 1: or power, right right, right, yeah, like giving them poison,

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Speaker 1: I you know, of providing abortions for their mistresses.

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Speaker 2: Like hmmm.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point, because the magical underworld was an

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Speaker 1: open secret. And the reason we know this is that

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Speaker 1: the women who are selling this poison shit. They like

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Speaker 1: kept receipts, and they like would like issue written promises

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Speaker 1: of payment like wow. And I think it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: payment for services rendered, dead husband or whatever. But they

387
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Speaker 1: were like being very above ground about how they handled

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Speaker 1: a lot of their finances. M But history doesn't like

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Speaker 1: talking about whether or not they were in the bed

390
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Speaker 1: with Catholic Church or some other crime syndicate or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know exactly, but it seemed

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Speaker 1: like an open secret and I doubt that they were

393
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Speaker 1: doing this for thirty years unnoticed. Right how did they

394
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Speaker 1: get caught? Multiple versions of the story you will be

395
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Speaker 1: shocked to know. One version of the story is that

396
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Speaker 1: so many people were fessing up in confessional that the

397
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Speaker 1: pope decided had to do something about it because I

398
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Speaker 1: guess the people, you know, the priests would like to

399
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Speaker 1: turn around and tell the confessions to the pope or whatever.

400
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Speaker 2: I don't believe that one.

401
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Speaker 1: It's also possible that de Grandis, the lower class poisoner,

402
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 1: got entrapped by a woman working for the police who

403
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: showed up with a sob story and desired to kill

404
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Speaker 1: her husband. My guess, m H. And this is I'm

405
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Speaker 1: not a historian. I'm not allowed to make whatever I'm

406
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,719
Speaker 1: making his guess. I think they went down because they

407
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: killed that earl because he died a year before the

408
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: investigation into them started, right the duke. They didn't kill

409
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Speaker 1: an earl, only killed a duke. Interesting, And because when

410
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Speaker 1: you're helping random people kill people like whatever, but then

411
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: when you when you get to a duke, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a step two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but I guess like if you're if they're

414
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Speaker 2: doing pro bono poison poison services, then the earth the

415
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: duke client must have been a good It's like there

416
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 2: was probably money and that how do you turn that down?

417
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Speaker 1: I know? And like maybe the duchess was like, sh

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Speaker 1: it's really bad, right, and she's married to some thirty

419
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 1: year old older than her dude that like yeah, I

420
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Speaker 1: mean whatever, maybe there's a happy no, you know what

421
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: I mean, if you are forty and your date a

422
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Speaker 1: seventy year old, I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: Anyway, Also around that time they might have been stepping

425
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Speaker 1: up their murders around the time that they started to

426
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: get caught, because there was a plague going through Rome

427
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: at the time, which was a particularly good time for

428
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: men to die unnoticed, So either they were stepping up

429
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: their murders or suspicion of them being murderers was going

430
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Speaker 1: through the roof, because all of these people were dying right.

431
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Speaker 1: Either way, the poisoner's ring goes down. After at least

432
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Speaker 1: thirty years, easily fifty years, five poisoners are put up

433
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: on trial, mostly poor women. Several of them are are beggars.

434
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: One of them Maria Spinola. Her nickname is Griffola, which

435
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: is a type of mushroom more commonly known as head

436
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: of the woods. And it's just a sick name, and

437
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: anyone out there is looking for a new name. Yeah, yeah, Griffola,

438
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: you know the yeah. And not all of the five

439
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: who went down were widows. Two of them were happily married,

440
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: although one was married to her like fourth husband. I

441
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: wonder what happened to the first three.

442
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: I know she really, I don't know, had some trial runs.

443
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Tefana herself had remarried and stayed remarried. And

444
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 1: actually it was like her husband's daughter who continued on

445
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: the gang after she died. And I would say, the

446
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: kind of man who is willingly married to a crime

447
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: lord poisoner who helps people murder their husbands. Is a

448
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: keeper mm hmmm, he's an ally. Yeah, that man is

449
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: an ally.

450
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah man. Yeah, God bless whoever whoever those people are.

451
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, he knows, he's he knows he's part of

452
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: the problem or is his type you know?

453
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, and I suspect it would never occur to

454
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: him to do anything abusive or cruel to his wife.

455
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 2: That's yes, exactly, But you hear that that's how you

456
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: become an ally everybody.

457
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the first poisoner who got arrested

458
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: de Grandis. She named names, presumably after torture m Spawna

459
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: or Spara. The astrologer she held out for months of

460
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: torture before she confessed, and the torture they faced was

461
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: another one I'd never heard of, called strepato, where your

462
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: wrists are tied together behind your back and you're hung

463
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: from your arms while your shoulders slowly dislocate. What the

464
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: fuck medieval era? No that I don't like that either, Yeah,

465
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: not sticky, I know.

466
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: I hate the people that like made these up, like right,

467
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: it's just like what not into it?

468
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: Right? And then they turn around and they're like that

469
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: woman is an evil murderous as they're like, how else

470
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: do you think we could make people unhappy?

471
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I want to hear them scream more to hear

472
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 2: my migraine.

473
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's what it was. There's a lot of

474
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: migraines going around from like the smoke in the air, burning.

475
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: Trash, yeah, air pollution.

476
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, can you blame them? Yes, the answer is yes,

477
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: but worth noting for any listeners today. A couple of

478
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: the women named names right away, and they were hanged

479
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: with the rest because snitching doesn't pay. Only for yeah,

480
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: only starting off rich pays unfortunately when it comes to crime.

481
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: Based on who survived this sort deal, I mean also

482
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: true today. So yepomp forty six murders get hurt out

483
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: in court and the five woman women plus one of

484
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: their clients were hanged in front of a huge crowd

485
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: in sixteen fifty nine, and before her execution, Spanna said,

486
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: I've given this liquid to more people than I've got

487
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: hairs on my head, which fucking.

488
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: Hell Yeah that rules. I love that. Also, just like

489
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: even if they got caught, they helped so many women

490
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 2: probably you know what I mean, they like not all

491
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: those women that their clients like, their clients didn't get caught.

492
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, right, Yeah, many of them did, but about

493
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: forty of them got put on trial. But out of

494
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: six hundred, yeah, no more than forty. Lower class widows

495
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: get put on trial. Most of them get life in prison.

496
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: One of them got hanged. And Okay, the fucked up

497
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: thing we know. The men who were killed were pretty

498
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: monstrous because of the court record, because all of their

499
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: abuse against their wives was heard in court as evidence,

500
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: but it was evidence for the prosecution because the fact

501
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: that the men like beat their wives and shit was

502
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: considered not as justification but as motive.

503
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 2: Mm.

504
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: So it would be like, how do you know this

505
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: woman you know murdered her husband and someone would be like, well,

506
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: her husband used to beat her, and so they'd be like, aha,

507
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: she's the murderous.

508
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: Interesting and cruel I know. Well, also, I guess it

509
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: was like legal right to be your wife.

510
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I presume so. Yeah, damn the a complicated part.

511
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: To complicate no one's perfect. A few of the husbands

512
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: were murdered, maybe for being gay, basically like he was

513
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: fucking boys instead of me. But at least in one

514
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: of the cases, it was he was bringing home boys

515
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: and making me watch and I don't know what is

516
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: meant by boys in this context, and also forcing someone

517
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: to watch as fucked up, so like maybe deserved a murdering.

518
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: Maybe it's I guess you can't just sell poison and

519
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: expect it to only be used in good ways as

520
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: another moral of the story, unfortunately. But you know who

521
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: didn't have to go on trial? Streen? They're rich clients.

522
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, so the duke's the duke's person, wife

523
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: person probably just had a great rich life after that.

524
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: Well yeah, like basically, okay, so the priests that hooked

525
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: them up with the arsenic and the clients weren't put

526
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: on trial. The Pope himself intervened to keep the names

527
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: of the rich ladies out of the trial. They were

528
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: interrogated separately for information, but not dragged in front of

529
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: the judge, and faced no charges. So basically they were

530
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: just like turn state's evidence.

531
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and assumably like they paid off, like they were

532
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: like they bribed them or something like.

533
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it was a bribe thing or

534
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: whether it was a like we don't want to look

535
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: bad and these women matter and these other women don't.

536
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: But I'm not I'm not sure. I mean it was

537
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, I think you could buy indulgences from the

538
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: Catholic Church at the time, where you'd be like I

539
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: did a sin, they'd be like, all right, a hundred bucks, right,

540
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, because they definitely had bucks. Dollars was the

541
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: currency of choices.

542
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: Mhm.

543
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: Renaissance in vidioid Lane. Yeah, George Washington, Yeah, totally yeah,

544
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: Like who is this guy? Oh, you'll know one day

545
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: h m hm. And the priest guy, no one knows

546
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: why he wasn't put on trial. He could have honestly

547
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: been dead by then, or the church could have taken

548
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: care of their own. Who fucking knows. But while only

549
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 1: forty six of the murders were heard in court, the

550
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: Holy Roman Emperor Charles the sixth later had legaled the

551
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: papers describing the death of six hundred people caused by

552
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: that particular poison. So that's where we get the six

553
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: hundred head count from them, and the court records from

554
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: the whole trial were locked up in a castle because

555
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: the pope didn't want anyone knowing how to make the poison.

556
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: They weren't uncovered until eighteen eighty, So there was two

557
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: hundred years of like myth making in folklore that muddy

558
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: to historic waters and are part of why we have

559
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: such a hard time like tracking what happened the name aquaitafauna.

560
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: It lived on. It became a folkloric term alongside water

561
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: from Palmero Rennie quote slow poison, and for centuries men

562
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: lived in fear of this slow poison. Mozart when he

563
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: died admittedly kind of suddenly thirty five years old, which

564
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 1: is like one hundred years later or whatever, he's like,

565
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: I have been poisoned by aqua tafauna, he said, And

566
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: no one actually knows how he died. It could have

567
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: been poison. It could have been syphilis, it could have

568
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: been food poisoning poisons like young though, I know, yeah,

569
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: there's like one as like maybe it was like undercook

570
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: pork chops or whatever.

571
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: It could have been a variety of things.

572
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: You're right at that time, Yeah, And actually one of

573
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: the main things that people thought was poisoning but wasn't

574
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: was friend of the pod tuberculosis. Anytime anyone died of tuberculosis,

575
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: people will be like it was poison. Like no, honey,

576
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: you're just living in the pre antibiotic era.

577
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I mean I guess it's like if you

578
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: have no way of knowing how someone dies and then

579
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: you assume it's like this magical or like out of

580
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: nowhere thing and you can't exactly like prove otherwise, then

581
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, poison seems likely if it's like also

582
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: this like fear mongering, like big rumor right.

583
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: Totally, like yeah, yeah, everyone's afraid that there's all of

584
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: these you know, women run around poisoning everything, and some

585
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: of them are right, Like hundreds of men you know,

586
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: met their end because of this. But was kind of

587
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: interesting is that there were ways to find out. Sometimes

588
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: you could tell an autopsy if someone had been poisoned,

589
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: and you know, you cut them up and you look

590
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: to see what happened to their intestines and guts and

591
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: stomach and shit, see if there's like different kinds of damage.

592
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: But the thing about aquatafauna that became sort of magical,

593
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 1: it was this poison that defied autopsy and shit. And

594
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: it's like yes and no, this concept of the slow

595
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: poison that you could if you control it just right,

596
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: you could poison someone one drop of time over months

597
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: and they die of natural causes months later. That's not real,

598
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: or at least it wasn't real then and I think

599
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: it's not real now. And it was basically this like

600
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: boogeyman moral panic thing help men become more afraid of

601
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: women because they're like, oh, I'm slowly getting sick and

602
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: then died. I've been slow poisoned by my wife. Like

603
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: most poisons that kill people at the time, including arsenic

604
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: and probably including the actualk with tafauna, you put some

605
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: drops in someone's food or wine or whatever and then

606
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: they fucking die. Like yeah, and awkward to Fana was

607
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: really good and that you didn't vomit all over the place,

608
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: and you know, it was like a it was a

609
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: better poison, but and it was like harder to detect

610
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: the damage to the organs and shit.

611
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: Also, have you seen the movie Phantom Thread.

612
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: I have not.

613
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: This is I mean, I guess I don't know if

614
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: it's spoiler alert if I mean, if you want to

615
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: go watch it, go watch it. But essentially the couple,

616
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: the woman is poisoning her husband over time because she

617
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: wants him to like need her so she can take

618
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: care of him. Oh yeah, totally, So maybe like there

619
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: was love behind all these motives, you know, like they

620
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: just wanted to the men to be like little babies

621
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: that they should take care of. But I mean, it's

622
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: just a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, and he deserves to

623
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: be in jail solely because of how he treated you

624
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: on Apple. But that's another story.

625
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's another I mean, okay, I

626
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: don't know that particular story, but in some ways, I

627
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: don't think it's another story because I think that's a

628
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: misogynist take. This concept of the woman who is poisoning

629
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: the husband, whether it's a literal poison or whether it's

630
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: the like draining his soul to make him reliant on

631
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: her or whatever, is this misogynist myth and it kind

632
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: of has the roots in that's very true.

633
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: Well in the movie too, it's very much romanticized because

634
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: he eventually finds out and he just keeps going along

635
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: with it because it's like she loves me or whatever

636
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: the moral that was. But yeah, wow, but I guess

637
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 2: that's a really good point. That is also a misoge

638
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: take to be like, oh, she wants his attention so bad,

639
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: or like she like is so desperately wanting to seem

640
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: valuable to someone.

641
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm I am sure there is someone in

642
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: history who has done something like this, you know, but yeah,

643
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: just like concept. But the one upside, right, so you

644
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: have all of these these women, so these men now

645
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: like if men die, people are like it was the wife, right,

646
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: And I'm sure like a lot of got people got

647
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: murdered for being poisoners who weren't poisoners. The one upside

648
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: is I bet a lot of men stayed their hand

649
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: because they realized the power that women had because of

650
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: the existence of Aqua tafanna.

651
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, put them in place.

652
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so as as this thing became a legend, right,

653
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: more poisoners took the name Tofauna. At least one that

654
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: we have a record of as a prisoner in seventeen

655
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: thirty one hundred years after the Heyday, she took the

656
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 1: name Tofuna. Another Italian poisoner, which who was still in Palmaro,

657
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: was Giovanna Bana and her nickname and I'm literally including

658
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: her in this because I like her nickname was the

659
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: old vinegar Lady, oh which ruled her poison got called

660
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: vinegar and it was a mixture of arsenic white wine

661
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: and vinegar. And she worked as a beggar and a poisoner,

662
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: and she was hanged in seventeen eighty nine because I

663
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: guess being a poisoner is illegal for some reason. Yeah, weird,

664
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: But old Vinegar Lady also a sick name might not

665
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: be as good of a choice for someone who's looking

666
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: for a new name. Up to you.

667
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but has a bite.

668
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. No, no, no, twenty years there's

669
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: more poison hell, yeah, twenty years.

670
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel maybe I'm maybe I'm too

671
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: excited about this, okay.

672
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: Goo, no, no, whatever, like this is cool. People do

673
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: cool stuff, like like it's complicated, right, but like overall,

674
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: like what do you fucking want you create a society

675
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: where women the only way that they can have freedom

676
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: is to poison people. They're gonna fucking poison people, and

677
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: that's on fucking you. Women did not create that society.

678
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 2: If anything, equality at that point would have helped the men,

679
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like if they want killing

680
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: to stop happening, they can just treat women like human beings,

681
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, but that they would rather not have, like

682
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 2: they would rather the casualties than actual freedom for women,

683
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 2: which is another interesting shitty thing.

684
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of us will die so that we can

685
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: all hold our power over our lives. That makes us

686
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: miserable too, because the fucking patriarchy's a prison for everyone.

687
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: Twenty years after the main circle of poisoners from sixteenth

688
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: seventy to sixteen eighty two, King Louis the fourteenth Court

689
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: in France was rocked by a scandal called the Affair

690
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: of Poisons that was kind of just a moral panic,

691
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: but with some actual poison involved.

692
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: Oh.

693
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: It started with an aristocratic lady, Madame de Brenvillier, who

694
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: killed her father and two brothers and tried to kill

695
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: her husband. And she theoretically did this to get all

696
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: their shit, like if they're a dates or whatever, right,

697
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: that's the easy answer of why she did it. The

698
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: real answer is we shocked to know patriarchy. She supposedly

699
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: and I think this part is not true, but the

700
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: legend against her claims that she practiced her poison by

701
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: poisoning poor people in the hospital. First, like she killed

702
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: thirty peasants in the hospital, and she was accused of

703
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: the murder of her brothers and dad, which was true.

704
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: She murdered them, She fled, she got arrested, and then

705
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: she was tortured, because let's be real, fucking whatever.

706
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: That feels like, there's no death without torture.

707
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: At this Yeah, there's one historian who claims that she

708
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: wasn't tortured. This whole thing became a bigger deal because

709
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: it goes all the way up in the court. But

710
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: the torture it gets now called the water cure. At

711
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: the time it was called being put to the question

712
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: in France, and basically she was forced to drink sixteen

713
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: pints of water, drew gallons of water. She confessed, and

714
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: she was beheaded. Wow, but so she probably did it.

715
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: But when she confessed, it came out that she'd been

716
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted, probably by her dad, as a kid. When

717
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: she was seven, she had been sexually assaulted, she didn't

718
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: say by whom, and also that she started sleeping with

719
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: one of her younger brothers who she later murdered. And

720
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: I have no idea what age that happened or what

721
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: direction the abuse went in that setup. Then she grew

722
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: up and got married, even though she didn't want to

723
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: get married. She wanted a divorce because she liked fucking

724
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: around and she liked being a free person who was

725
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: in charge of herself, and specifically, she knew a divorce

726
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: wasn't possible, so she tried to separate her money from

727
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: her husband's money. And this pisses off her dad because

728
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: it would ruin his reputation because royalty is fucking dumb.

729
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: So her dad had her lover, a captain in the army,

730
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: thrown into prison. In that prison, her boyfriend meantime Italian

731
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: poisoner named Aksilli, who had been the court the court

732
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: poisoner for a bunch of royalty in a bunch of countries,

733
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: and he teaches boyfriend the art of poison. And boyfriend

734
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: gets out of prison and he becomes a licensed alchemist

735
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: so he can get arsenic and all that shit, and

736
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: starts making poisons. And the cool thread is that Axilly

737
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: might have gotten his information. Who might have gotten his information?

738
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: I read this whole article tracing the lineage between Tofauna

739
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: are our heroes from last time, right and Exsilly and

740
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: therefore all of these other murders. So this whole long line,

741
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah,

742
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 1: her boyfriend gets pretty good at making poisons, or maybe

743
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: he just bought the poisons. Fucking stories change.

744
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 2: I have a question. Yeah, alchemists, they're there are legal

745
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: profession back.

746
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: Then, apparently what are they?

747
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: What are they doing? So what are what is alchemy?

748
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,280
Speaker 2: As far as like, if they're not killing people, are

749
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: you like having little potions that heal you?

750
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: Like?

751
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: Is that the like? What is what is it?

752
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: So alchemy was like in some ways was it kind

753
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: of the word for science before science? And so it

754
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: was like people who were like studying shit and trying

755
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: to invent different chemical shit again with the theoretical long

756
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: lineage of trying to create the Philosopher's stone and make

757
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: gold out of lead or whatever. But mostly alchemists, I

758
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: believe at the time were essentially apothecaries and were like

759
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: druggists and you can go to essentially Yeah, And I

760
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how the licensing thing worked in France

761
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: at the time, but apparently he was able to get

762
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: his license to be an alchemist in the same way

763
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: that the arsenic that the other people got was through

764
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: an apothecary, you know, someone who had legal access to

765
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: it who then turned around and sold it on the side.

766
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: And the suspected poison this time was arsenic, and the

767
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: essence of toads, And it really seems like all the

768
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: poison at the time was just arsenic with something for flavor.

769
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: You know, they're like, what if you mix arsenic with this,

770
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, yeah, it's going to kill someone

771
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: because it's fucking arsenic. It's like the fucking I don't know. Yeah,

772
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: it's like your style, your brand. But one of the

773
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: things that is interesting, she actually killed her husband, and

774
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry her. She didn't kill her husband. She tried

775
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: to kill her husband. She killed her brothers and her

776
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: dad with like a super basic poison that was like

777
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: really obvious when they like cut open, cut them open

778
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: and looked at their organs. And when they found her,

779
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: they found super basic, shitty poison which I don't even

780
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: think was arsenic based. I can't remember what it was

781
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: based on. And they also found clear vials of a

782
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: suspected arsenic based one, and in order to test it,

783
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: they gave it to stray dogs and killed those dogs. Wow,

784
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: which happened a lot at the time. But did you

785
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: know that aquatafana would never kill a dog. Aquatafana only

786
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 1: kills husbands. It will kill one hundred percent of husbands

787
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of the time. It is available for

788
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: purchase where ever you get your magical charms. Any person

789
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: you meet on the street who will give your fortune. Actually,

790
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: don't go accost actual fortune tellers asking them for poison.

791
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: But they can get twenty percent off, right, Yes, with

792
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: the with the code cool people.

793
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go in and say I'm with cool people,

794
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: and you get twenty percent off your aqua tafauna. Remember

795
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: to ask for aqua tafauna. Margaret Kiljoyce sent you, and

796
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: then murder your huh Nope, Okay, Sophie is shaking her head.

797
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: Advice ADS. We are back from ADS and we are

798
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: talking about how some poison shit poisoned. But the husband

799
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: may have been making sorry, the boyfriend may or may

800
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: not have been. I'm just using boyfriend and shit because

801
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: if I started writing it all out with all their

802
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: names used every time, and then I was like, I

803
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: can't keep track of this many names, and if I

804
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: was a listener, I would also not keep track of

805
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: this many names, and so I'm just going with boyfriend.

806
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: You can look up the affairs of the poisons if

807
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: you want to learn all of these people's names. He

808
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: wasn't very good at security culture. He might have been

809
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: good at poison, not good at security culture, because he

810
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: saved all of the letters from his girlfriend that said

811
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: things like, oh no, hey, babe, what if I killed

812
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: everyone in my family so we could own more land

813
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: or whatever? He dies, I actually don't know how he dies.

814
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't find out how he dies. He's a captain

815
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: in the army. It's the seventeenth century, and he had

816
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: just murdered some people. So stabbed with a sword, hanged

817
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: by the state, and tuberculosis are my three guesses. After

818
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: he dies, they found all the letters, and that's how

819
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: she gets found out and tortured and executed.

820
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: Well.

821
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: During her confession she says, half the people of quality

822
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: are involved in this sort of thing, and it could

823
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: ruin them if I were to talk, and by basically

824
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: hating that, she sent everyone into a panic wow and

825
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: put serious fear into the men at court. And my

826
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: argument would be, if you don't want to be murdered

827
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: by women, then don't create an economic system by which

828
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: women can only inherit wealth that they murder you. But whatever,

829
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: And this is the start of the affair of the poisons,

830
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: because her killing the people isn't the affair of the poisons,

831
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: that's just the actual poison murder. Instead, it's this like

832
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: breakup of the magical underworld scene of Paris. And I'm

833
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: not going to do the whole details of the affair

834
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: of the poisons because it's not actually cool. I think

835
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: the underworld people are super cool, but I don't give

836
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: a shit about royalty. It led to this crackdown of

837
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: the criminal magical underworld of France. All the fortune tellers

838
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: and alchemists. Everyone's selling afrodisiacs and horoscopes and shit, and

839
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: they might have sold poison and called it quote inheritance powder, which.

840
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: Rules they're inventive with these names.

841
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: I know, I know, oh yeah, one woman who gets

842
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: called a witch and fuck it, I don't know she's

843
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: a witch. That's cool. She might have been in charge

844
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: of it all. She might have been in charge of

845
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: this whole poisonous ring, or there might not have been

846
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: a fucking poisonous ring in the magical underworld at the time.

847
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 1: I don't fucking know. Her name was Levoison, which means

848
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: the neighbor, which is a sick name for a witch.

849
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: Anyone searching for new names whatever, Okay, that one might

850
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: come off oddly. She made her living selling love potions

851
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: made with like afterbirth and shit. She was also maybe

852
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: responsible for poisoning more than a thousand people, And after

853
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: hours of looking into it, I cannot decide whether I

854
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: think it's true. She ends up burned at the stake

855
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: and it I kind of think that the whole thing

856
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: was made up after the woman murdered the husband, the father, right,

857
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: and the brothers. But yeah, the affair of the poisons

858
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: leads to thirty six people being executed, possibly as witch hysteria,

859
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: or there might have been pre with black masses, an

860
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: incestin poison, and a garden with the bones of two thousand,

861
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: five hundred infants Lavoisen's garden.

862
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: Can you repeat that?

863
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so supposedly when they caught Levozen, I'm just gonna

864
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: say the neighbor because they can't pronounce French. When they

865
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: catch the neighbor in her garden is buried the bones

866
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: of two thousand, five hundred infants. Oh, and here's a

867
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: contemporary description of one of the black masses from from

868
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: the poison affair, which I'm guessing didn't happen, whatever, maybe

869
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: it did. There's a lot of evidence it did. It's

870
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: actually literally my skepticism is the only thing holding me

871
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: from just saying this is true. Everyone else is like,

872
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: this fucking happened, and I'm like, I don't fucking know

873
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: about this. Right, historians say this shit happened. It probably

874
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: fucking happened. Maybe not the Garden of Bones, We're not sure.

875
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: And this is talking about the King's mistress, and who

876
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: was implicated in the whole affair but ended up surviving

877
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: because she was the King's mistress. So here's a contemporary

878
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: description quote. A long black velvet pall was spread over

879
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: the altar, and upon this the Royal Mistress laid herself

880
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,479
Speaker 1: in a state of perfect nudity. Six black candles were lit.

881
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: The celebrant robed himself in a chawsible embroidered with esoteric characters,

882
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: wrought and silver. The gold patten and chalice were placed

883
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: upon the naked belly of the living altar. All was

884
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: silent save for the low, monotonous murmur of the blasphemous liturgy.

885
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: An assistant crept forward, bearing an infant in her arms.

886
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: The child was held over the altar, a sharp gash

887
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: across the neck, a stifled cry and warm drops fell

888
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: into the chalice and streamed upon the white figure beneath.

889
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: The corpse was handed to olivo's in, who flung it

890
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: callously into an oven fashioned for that purpose, which glowed

891
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: white hot in its fierceness. Yeah, the incantation of the priest,

892
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: in case anyone needs the incantation, asked her off as Medeus.

893
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: Princes of friendship and Love, I invoke you to accept

894
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: the sacrifice this child that I offer you for the

895
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: things I ask of you. They are that the friendship

896
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: and love of the King and the Dauphin may be

897
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: assured to me, that I may be honored by all

898
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: the princes and princesses of the court. That the King

899
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: deny me nothing I ask, whether it be for my

900
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: relatives or for any of my household.

901
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, first of all, what a pathetic little chant,

902
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 2: very desperate.

903
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: I know, what if he loves me? What if he

904
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: loves me? Yeah?

905
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Also, the Princess of friendship in love threw me off,

906
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:44,959
Speaker 2: like that's assurance has confirmed not a sleigh. But also

907
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: I mean like most of that stuff for me definitely

908
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: sounds kind of made up, Like the he right.

909
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that is I mean this was written

910
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 1: as a thing that happened at the time. I don't know.

911
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: I like the affairs of the poisons, like gets reported

912
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: on is like all this shit happened, and I don't

913
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: really believe a lot of it. I know that the

914
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: I know that people got hanged. I think it was

915
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 1: witch hysteria. And probably someone listening knows ways truth.

916
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's probably a starting point of truth.

917
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: And then people get scared and take up a bunch

918
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: of stuff and yeah, yeah, just implement misogyny over and over.

919
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: Yea. The infants that were supposedly used in these rituals

920
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: were alleged to have been acquired from sex workers or

921
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: maybe are the fate of the people who come to

922
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: the magical world asking for help getting rid of a baby.

923
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: The priest involved was arrested and confessed, But again that

924
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: means nothing to me, because everyone's gotting fucking tortured, you know.

925
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: But he theoretically confessed to that black mass, and he

926
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: died in prison, and in his confession he claims that

927
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: he sacrificed several of his own newborn children. I I

928
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: don't believe anything people who are confessing saying that's fair,

929
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: But there were several homes for wayward priests around Europe

930
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: for priests who started doing weird shit like that, like

931
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: having black masses and things, so maybe it was actually

932
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of a big problem, or maybe the moral panic

933
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: was everywhere and every priest who seemed a little sketchy,

934
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: throw them in the fucking home for Wayward Priests and

935
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: the whole conspiracy. Right, I'm curious, like, yeah, I don't know,

936
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: I don't know.

937
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean, do you can the baby stuff be true?

938
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 2: Like do they really kill little babies for blood?

939
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 1: Maybe? Uh? I bet that some of the magical underworld

940
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: shit included killing babies, but also killing of babies and

941
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: shit with blood is like the core of like bullshit

942
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: conspiracy type stuffy and moral panics and things. So like

943
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: I bet mostly there were abortionists and they were like

944
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, love filter people and whatever like mm hmm.

945
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: But and I and I bet you the the I

946
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: bet you the evil priests were just like also making

947
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: love potions where they were like hell, yeah, I'm gonna

948
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: use my like holy powers of God to like you know,

949
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: make some love potions people or whatever, and and they

950
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: all like had mistresses and were like doing like or misters,

951
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: I guess, and doing all kinds of shit that they

952
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: like weren't supposed to. Yeah, I don't know.

953
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean I can't. I can't stop thinking about Resputin.

954
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I feel like he's like a

955
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: very famous man, witch or wizard or whatever.

956
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 1: Mystic, right, I like man, which I'm just saying he's a.

957
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 2: Man, which that's funny, but it's interesting that I don't know,

958
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: like he was a very public royal, like yeah, mystic

959
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: or essential you're mystic, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

960
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 2: it's just very Uh that was like not even that

961
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 2: long ago. That was like late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen

962
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: hundreds or something, so damn yeah.

963
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: I mean like this underworld existed like h and a

964
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: lot of times it was really out in the open.

965
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: And the question for me is just like whether or not,

966
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: because I mean I could imagine, like I don't know,

967
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: if you came to my house and arrested me, it

968
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: would look real bad some of the shit I keep

969
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: around and the shit that I talk about on this

970
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: podcast and whatever, right, but I don't like sacrifice babies

971
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know. Yeah, but if they would be

972
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: like it'd be easy to make these jumps with a

973
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: moral panic. Mm hmm. Yeah, the collapse of this whole

974
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: conspiracy of poisoners, this particular new conspiracy of poisoners apparently,

975
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: and this woman probably was a poisoner, right, She probably

976
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: was a selling people poison person. And I think the

977
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: neighbor was too. She she was a widow and a

978
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: fortune teller, and she bragged drunk at a party. It

979
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: was her like girlfriend's party. She bragged drunk at a

980
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: party that she was doing so well in the poison

981
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: game that she could retire soon, which got the cops

982
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: onto her, who were like, hello, I would like to

983
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: buy a poison please, and she was like, hell, yeah,

984
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: I got you. Here's some poison and they were like,

985
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: just kidding, we are the police. And so her whole

986
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: family gets arrested and her and her kids are all

987
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: executed I think, burned at the stake. Oh no, So

988
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 1: don't brag drunk at parties about felonies are doing and then.

989
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:38,879
Speaker 2: Maybe good tip.

990
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: Her whole family slept in one bed, all incest style.

991
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 1: And this is a messier episode that I'm used to doing.

992
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: Her lesbian lover whose party it was died under torture,

993
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: and in the end the state killed thirty six people,

994
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: not including two who died under torture and an unknown

995
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: number who killed themselves. During the repression. Renegade priests were arrested,

996
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: many of whom got life in prison or I think

997
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: that probably translates to scent to those homes for wayward priests.

998
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: But the affair got kind of shut down once it

999
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: reached the King's mistress and she was never put up

1000
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: on charges, and the whole thing fucked France's reputation internationally,

1001
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: so much so that when the next crew of occultist

1002
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: poisoners cropped up a couple decades later, because apparently there's

1003
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 1: a social need. In seventeen oh two, they just kind

1004
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: of quietly imprisoned the ring laders and definitely without trial,

1005
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: and just were like, we're going to make this problem

1006
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: go away. We're not going to make it do another

1007
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: big stink. But anyway, men everywhere can rest a little

1008
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: bit easier knowing that divorce is legal and their wives

1009
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: have an easier way out of a bad relationship than arsenic.

1010
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, why are they complaining? Now? You know what I mean?

1011
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 2: Y'all have it easy. Y'all have it so easy.

1012
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: Wait too, the men or the men, yeah, men.

1013
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: They should There should not be any reason for any

1014
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 2: complaints at this juncture. But I mean, like you brought

1015
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 2: up a good point though about it being in need.

1016
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: It kept popping up generation after generation or whatever, right,

1017
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 2: So it's really it's pathetic actually how long it took

1018
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: them to even consider making men or women and men

1019
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: equal you know what, I mean, to hold on.

1020
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: To that power, yeah, or even just able to leave

1021
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: each other, yes, exactly.

1022
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: Like the concept of someone being property was also a

1023
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: huge issue obviously, but like.

1024
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 1: No, I never never affected anything else, right now, that's

1025
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: not even sure, Yeah no, yeah, absolutely, yeah yeah yeah.

1026
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: And it kept like like white men to be the

1027
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: people that can wield power and only them, and so like,

1028
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, power is a disease, and I don't

1029
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: know most people when they get it, they I don't know,

1030
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: they'll do anything to keep it. And that's un settled

1031
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 2: to me.

1032
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: Would you say that the cure for the power disease

1033
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: is arsenic? Maybe not in a legally binding way, you.

1034
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: Know what I would the fact that it's like literally

1035
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: in our earth is really magical to me. If you

1036
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: want to use that word. It's pretty sick the fact

1037
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: that like I mean, a lot of things grow that

1038
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: are bad for us, or or even just like real

1039
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: is bad for us. Yes, arsen is bad for us.

1040
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: There's like certain berries you can't eat. But I mean,

1041
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we are on this

1042
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: globe and the Earth is deciding what happens, you know

1043
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 2: what I mean. If the Earth wants to have some

1044
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: things that float around, it can kill us. Yeah you do,

1045
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: you like I support her?

1046
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1047
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 2: You know?

1048
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well, thanks for for coming on my How

1049
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: to Kill Your Husband episode. It was fun to do

1050
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: something a little bit out of my usual wheelhouse, know.

1051
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm honored I was chosen for this.

1052
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: It was very fun. I learned a lot and uh yeah,

1053
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 2: this is the only I think podcasts or the way

1054
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 2: I learn things now, and so I appreciate when they're good.

1055
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I learned a lot from Sharene's history

1056
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: episodes on It Could Happen here, And if other people

1057
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: want to learn from Sharen, they can do so by

1058
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: listening to Shreene on It Can Happen Margaret.

1059
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm on that. I am also the co host

1060
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: of Ethnically ambiguous, and you can follow me on social

1061
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: media if you want, Share Hero, Instagram, Shure, Hero, sixt x'

1062
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: six Twitter. Also, after we're going.

1063
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: To have a joke to wrap this up, Okay, well,

1064
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: my love that blug that you can before you wrap

1065
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: it up with a joke, you can also follow me

1066
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: on social media. I also wish I wasn't on social media,

1067
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,959
Speaker 1: but I feel more hooked into it than I want

1068
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: to be. I'm on Twitter at Magpie Killjoy and on

1069
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: Instagram at Margret Kiljoy and I have a book called

1070
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: We Won't Be Here Tomorrow that is available now in stores.

1071
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: Buy it, go buy it.

1072
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, we like kind of shot ourselves in the

1073
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 2: foot because I also don't like social media and hate

1074
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 2: that I'm that connected, but like I feel like if

1075
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 2: you're on a podcast, you kind of have to be

1076
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: front facing in a lot of ways.

1077
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: Right, Yep, that's why I love on social media.

1078
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: That's called self sabotage. Yeah, are you ready for my joke?

1079
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: I am absolutely.

1080
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 2: What kind of tea is hard to swallow?

1081
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: Honesty?

1082
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good one, but I's all the answer,

1083
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: But I take it. I will take that though. I mean,

1084
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: honesty is better I was gonna say reality.

1085
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: A true so true.

1086
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: So uh yeah, that's that's my joke. Thank you for

1087
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: coming to my.

1088
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: Joke next week Joke Hour with Jerine. That wasn't a

1089
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: very good joke. That's why it's with Serena, not me.

1090
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: We'll be We'll be We'll be back next week. We'll

1091
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: be back, We'll be bad, and you'll you'll be here too,

1092
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 2: and you'll listen to it because that's what you do.

1093
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: We'll be.

1094
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 2: Cool.

1095
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: People who did Cool Stuff is a production of cool

1096
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit

1097
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: our website.

1098
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 2: Cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1099
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple

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00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.