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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, December ninth, everybody, and

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. So here it is,

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Speaker 2: it's coming and it's happening. Everybody, listen up. The federal

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Speaker 2: judges have officially ordered the Epstcene and Gilane Maxwell grand

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Speaker 2: jury records to be released sometime in the next ten days.

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Speaker 2: So that is a very big deal and we did

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Speaker 2: not think that would happen. Also, accused CEO killer Luigi

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Speaker 2: Mangioni is back in court for his pre trial and

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Speaker 2: we saw the most stunning body cam footage today, So

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Speaker 2: more on that to come. And also it's we two

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Speaker 2: still happening, the trial of accused wife killer Brian Walsh,

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Speaker 2: and now there's DNA to discuss. Lots of drama surrounding that,

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Speaker 2: plus a new twist in the Long Island serial killer case,

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Speaker 2: and it's not what any of us have expected. So

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Speaker 2: we haven't talked about that one for a while. But

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Speaker 2: long Island here we come. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of

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Speaker 2: course with Courtney Armstrong and body move in on what

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Speaker 2: I hope has been a beautiful Tuesday for all of you.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely nothing but nothing. You have the best, Okay, good,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to hear it. Taha, Sam and Adam also

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Speaker 3: with us of course in the studio, and of course

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Speaker 3: we want to hear from you if you want to

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Speaker 3: jump in live eight eight eight three one crime, or

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Speaker 3: you can always leave us a talk back on the

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Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app it's free, or you can always hit us

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Speaker 3: up in our socials.

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Speaker 2: Courtney, where should.

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Speaker 4: We begin, Well, let's begin at the beginning, because, as

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Speaker 4: you said, it's here. A federal judge in New York

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Speaker 4: ordered the unseiling of extensive grand jury materials and investigative records.

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Speaker 4: And this is from the Gelaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 4: sex trafficking cases. This of course has been enabled by

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Speaker 4: the new Epstein Files Transparency Act, which was hard fought

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Speaker 4: and hard won.

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Speaker 5: So catching anyone up.

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein was a financier accused of operating a really

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Speaker 4: large scale sex trafficking operation underage girls were involved. He

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Speaker 4: was arrested in twenty nineteen and allegedly died of suicide

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Speaker 4: and custody shortly thereafter, and his long time associate, Gilleen Maxwell,

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Speaker 4: was convicted in twenty twenty one of recruiting and grooming

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Speaker 4: the miners for sex offender Jeffrey Epstein to abuse quite

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Speaker 4: a pair. Gelaine Maxwell, of course, is currently serving a

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Speaker 4: twenty year federal prison sentence for these crimes, though she

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Speaker 4: is doing it comfortably as her prison has been downgraded

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Speaker 4: to something cozier. So Judge Paul Engelbayer approved the Justice

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Speaker 4: Department's request to unseal what's being referred to as a

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Speaker 4: large set of grand jury transcripts as well as discovery

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Speaker 4: documents and investigative materials from sex offender.

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Speaker 5: Gelien Maxwell's case. So it gets interesting.

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Speaker 4: The judge noted that the material does not identify any

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Speaker 4: additional individuals who had sexual contact with minors, nor does

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Speaker 4: it reveal new clients or unknown criminal methods. And he's

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Speaker 4: quoted as saying or as writing, I should say, contrary

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Speaker 4: to DOJ's depiction, the grand jury materials would not reveal

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Speaker 4: new information of any consequence.

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Speaker 5: So I'll pause there, what do you guys, I have

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Speaker 5: to think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so confusing. So just in case anyone's not

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Speaker 2: aware of what a grand jury trial is, it's a

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Speaker 2: quiet trial. We see it happening in real time. We're

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Speaker 2: seeing a grand jury trial happening in the David case,

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Speaker 2: for example. It's not in front of a juror. It's

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Speaker 2: typically very sealed. It's secretive. I've actually been on a

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Speaker 2: grand jury and it's very They like bring you in

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Speaker 2: the back door, and it's it's kind of secretive, quite frankly.

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Speaker 2: And one of the best parts of our constitution is

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Speaker 2: that that typically remains sealed no matter what. And as

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Speaker 2: we've all heard, there have been many calls for these

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Speaker 2: records to be unsealed based on new developments, and this

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Speaker 2: has been happening for over a year now, and it's

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Speaker 2: always gotten shot down for you know, for many reasons

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Speaker 2: that you can point to. So on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty monumental that they're unsealing these documents, particularly because

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Speaker 2: Gilaine Maxwell herself, or according to her attorney last week,

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Speaker 2: did not want that to happen because she feared it

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Speaker 2: would be a problem if she went for an appeal.

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Speaker 2: To get a fair jury of right, so there has

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Speaker 2: to be something that they were fearful of being revealed. However,

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Speaker 2: according to the judge, he's saying, it's nothing really that consequential.

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Speaker 2: So consequential meaning something that would require a consequence.

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Speaker 5: So I'm a little perplexed by it.

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Speaker 2: On the one hand, yes, let's get some transparency, go

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Speaker 2: and keep it coming transactions. Obviously, Gieley Maxwell wasn't convicted

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Speaker 2: for twenty years in a federal prisons based on nothing.

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Speaker 2: So let's just see what those you know, those details are.

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Speaker 4: M hmm, yeah, And it will be interesting because the

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Speaker 4: DOJ does reserve the right to redact. Really, it sounds

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Speaker 4: a little bit at their will. They of course will

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Speaker 4: redact the victim's names, but also anything that involves an

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Speaker 4: ongoing investigation, which may or may not include the investigation

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Speaker 4: that was opened into former President Bill Clinton.

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Speaker 2: Right, that was a big piece of that puzzle. Right,

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Speaker 2: So everyone was saying or speculating, oh, this is fishy

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Speaker 2: because suddenly now they're opening an investigation into Bill Clinton,

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Speaker 2: and in doing so, that's going to prevent or block

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Speaker 2: some of these files to be released. Oh wait, Gilain Maxwell,

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Speaker 2: we heard from her attorney was going to also file

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Speaker 2: for an appeal. And if that's the case, oh wait,

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Speaker 2: suddenly her files can't be released because that could interrupt

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Speaker 2: her appeal. So it seemed as though there were some

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Speaker 2: strategy happening around the edges, and perhaps there still is,

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Speaker 2: but on its nose. If we're just going to take

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Speaker 2: it on its nose and for what it is a

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Speaker 2: kind of a victory, right, I would suggest there's going

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Speaker 2: to be some interactions or emails or something that would

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Speaker 2: suggest convictions. We know that Epstein was in fact convicted

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Speaker 2: in you know, two thousand and seven, two thousand and

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Speaker 2: eight in West Palm Beach twenty nineteen. Obviously there was

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Speaker 2: a grand jury trial prior to his death, but we

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Speaker 2: just didn't know what was in it.

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Speaker 5: So this body has her hand up God, because like

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Speaker 5: this is kind of confusing. So the grand jury is

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Speaker 5: the indictment of Gillane Maxwell. Right, it's not the files

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Speaker 5: that are being released, it's not what people you know,

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Speaker 5: there's no list in these in this grand jury indictment.

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Speaker 5: But she had a trial, right, Yes, so that is correct,

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Speaker 5: and that information is public? Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't seem to be a lot of public a

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Speaker 2: lot of things around dealing as well, which has been

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Speaker 2: probably a bit of the rub. So, you know, on

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Speaker 2: the one hand, we want to have as much information

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Speaker 2: as possible, including it in any you know, financial implications,

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Speaker 2: any transfers of money, bank records, correspondents, emails, anything surrounding

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Speaker 2: the case. There's not just like a weird set of

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Speaker 2: files air quote. I think we're using the words files

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Speaker 2: as an umbrella statements, an.

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Speaker 5: Umbrella statement, right everything the judge. The judge said, I

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Speaker 5: want to repeat what the judge said, Contrary to the

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Speaker 5: DOJ's depiction, the grand jury materials would not reveal new

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Speaker 5: information of any consequence. And I think the reason and

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Speaker 5: he's saying that is yeah, because we had a trial,

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Speaker 5: and the trials are public, well they should be. It's

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Speaker 5: a federal court. Anybody can walk in and watch it.

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Speaker 5: So there's not really going to be any new information

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Speaker 5: because all the information that got her indicted was presented

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Speaker 5: in court at the trial.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious that's why we don't know about the contents

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Speaker 2: of the actual trial itself.

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Speaker 5: Well, and that's see, that's the rub for me. What

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Speaker 5: I would like to know is where's the information from

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Speaker 5: her conviction not her indictment, her conviction, and was.

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Speaker 2: There any kind of motivating incident that actually called for

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Speaker 2: these grand jury filings or you know, findings I should say,

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Speaker 2: to be released. You know, was there something that happened

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Speaker 2: today or last week that made this suddenly a thing

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Speaker 2: or are we just getting piecemeiled pieces of information to

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Speaker 2: keep us say sheated.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think this just.

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Speaker 4: All falls under the umbrella of having the Epstein Files

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Speaker 4: Transparency Act that this you know, as you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 4: it was completely closed and it was a hard pass

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Speaker 4: on releasing anything, and so this is now under that umbrella,

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Speaker 4: and the DOJ says they do plan to release eighteen

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Speaker 4: types of investigative material, so it'll be some search warrants,

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Speaker 4: financial records, the notes from interviews with victims, and data

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Speaker 4: from electronic devices. So it seems like there should be

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Speaker 4: something in there. Listen, if you're just joining us, we

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Speaker 4: are talking about some new information that is being opened

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Speaker 4: up regarding Gilaine Maxwell and her participation with sex trafficking

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Speaker 4: along with Jeffrey Ebstein. If you went a weigh in

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Speaker 4: eight at eight to three one crime the judge Judge Engelmeyer.

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Speaker 4: He also received letters from lawyers from two different men,

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Speaker 4: so one who could have been a witness at sex

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Speaker 4: offender Gleaene Maxwell's trild but was not called, and another

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Speaker 4: whose name appeared in civil court files against Gilaene Maxwell

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Speaker 4: but had previously been successfully redacted. And the lawyers of

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Speaker 4: these men implicated in the files argued that the Epstein

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Speaker 4: Transparency Act does not specifically mention grand jury materials, and

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Speaker 4: so the DOJ's request to unseal them should be denied.

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Speaker 4: If not, they said their client's name should at least

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Speaker 4: be redacted or kept under seal.

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Speaker 5: Interesting. Yeah, because usually grand jury, like you said stuff, right,

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Speaker 5: they're usually very secretive. They're usually not something that you get. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's very it's a vacred, sacred, you know, institution in

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Speaker 5: the country, grand jury. So you know, the Transparency Act

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Speaker 5: doesn't mention grand jury materials. It's interesting that they're releasing them.

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Speaker 5: I would like them to release the trial transcripts, not

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Speaker 5: the grand jury indictment.

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Speaker 2: Bring it all.

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Speaker 5: What do I would say?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, more and more and more, and we want.

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Speaker 5: The being more yeah yeah, yeah, And I feel like

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Speaker 5: maybe most people would just be satiated by the grand

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Speaker 5: jury records, but that's not the totality of what got

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Speaker 5: her convicted, that just got her indicted. We want the

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Speaker 5: totality right, So true. Yeah, so I think it's I

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Speaker 5: think the pressure needs to the foot on the pedal

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Speaker 5: needs to remain, is what I'm trying.

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Speaker 2: To say here here, sister, I couldn't agree with you more.

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Speaker 2: And even going backward, you know, we had some of

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Speaker 2: those those photos that were released last week, and again

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Speaker 2: they're still stuck in my head, and I was finding

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Speaker 2: them troubling. The mess of equipment with the dentist's chair

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Speaker 2: and the medical equipment and those masks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, what was that about those masks? I tried?

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Speaker 4: I was channeling body and was I was like, where

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Speaker 4: are these masks from? Is it from you know, some

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Speaker 4: old Latin culture? It seems so masonic to me, Like

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, what was the implication? I feel

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Speaker 4: like there's symbolism in there that I am not getting.

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Speaker 4: And I've asked some some of my friends who are

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Speaker 4: like history buffs and stuff like that, so they mean something.

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Speaker 5: They're so odd and specific. Yeah, it's like from one

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Speaker 5: specific artist or something.

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Speaker 2: They all have a very simil we wi't they remind

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Speaker 2: you a bit of that movie Eyes White or those

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Speaker 2: masks they don't remember. That's the Stanley Kubrick am I

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Speaker 2: saying that correctly, you are Stanley Kubrick film that you know,

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Speaker 2: Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were infamously in. And it

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Speaker 2: has been reported that the ending was changed in the

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Speaker 2: eleventh hour because somehow, I'm afraid to use the word

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Speaker 2: Illuminati was somehow being referenced in it, and that it

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Speaker 2: was more real than we knew.

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Speaker 5: By the way, when I watched that movie for.

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Speaker 2: The first time, I didn't even totally understand it, So

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Speaker 2: it's number one. Then I watched it again and was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is a good scary movie and definitely worth the watch.

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Speaker 2: But apparently there's some crossover between what we're seeing in

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Speaker 2: epstein Land and Eyes White Shot. That's the chatter, the.

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Speaker 6: Scuttle the scuttle butt. Is that the the scuttle butt, Yes,

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Speaker 6: that has been the scuttle butt before that there's this

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Speaker 6: thing large jurse secret society at play, and there have

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Speaker 6: been reports that again these are reports. We're getting a

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Speaker 6: little off the off.

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Speaker 2: The like fact train right now, but if you want

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Speaker 2: to just go with us for a second, some of

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Speaker 2: the trans you know, some of the chatter online has

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Speaker 2: been that Epstein himself was you know, he was a

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Speaker 2: big thinker. He was a mathematician, and he was obsessed

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Speaker 2: with this idea of transhumanism and extending his life. So

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Speaker 2: they were very often having talks at this island with

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Speaker 2: big world thinkers, probably tech people, about longevity and predictive

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Speaker 2: thinking and all kinds of crazy things that we've seen

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Speaker 2: in the movies. And ultimately the theory being that there

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Speaker 2: was like some super secret society that was happening and

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Speaker 2: gathering on Epstein Island, and these young girls in the

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Speaker 2: trafficking of it all was keeping that business alive.

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Speaker 5: Just to switch real quick, I hope that releasing the

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Speaker 5: jant trans or the grand jury materials isn't going to

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Speaker 5: give Gilaine any excuse, you know, like I can't even

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Speaker 5: appeal now because you know, my indictment materials have been

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Speaker 5: released and get some sort of sympathy from constitutionalists.

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Speaker 4: Well that's that has been laid her attorney. So you know,

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Speaker 4: right now Maxwell's attorneys have said she has no position

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Speaker 4: on the unseiling, But previously they did exactly. They laid

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Speaker 4: out that argument and said that releasing the records could

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Speaker 4: harm a future habeas position petition that she plans to file.

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Speaker 4: And the habeas petition is a legal request by someone

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Speaker 4: in custody and is asking in the court to say, hey,

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Speaker 4: take another look and see am I really being imprisoned

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Speaker 4: lawfully or not?

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Speaker 5: So you're kind of both sides of the coin.

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Speaker 2: And remember there's nothing fun for Acosta, as we've talked

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Speaker 2: about back from two thousand and seven, two and eight.

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Speaker 2: Nobody wants that information out either, So the push and

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Speaker 2: pull is real right now.

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Speaker 5: Listen, stick around.

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Speaker 4: We have another judge who makes a stunning move in

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Speaker 4: the Epstein saga, unlocking other transcripts that were never meant

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Speaker 4: that and more True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong body move in and of course we have

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Speaker 2: producer Taha jumping in as well. So all these things

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Speaker 2: Gilane and Epstein are heating up. So again a little confusing.

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Speaker 2: What's the counter at nine days? Is that what we want?

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Speaker 5: It's the ninth and today and the nineteenth day.

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Speaker 2: Now, hopefully this isn't just like a soft launch to

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Speaker 2: throw everybody a bone so that people feel like, oh,

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Speaker 2: there's stuff happening, and this is not the full release

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Speaker 2: of all the bank transactions, et cetera. But who knows.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'll say, I'll just keep saying better than nothing,

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Speaker 2: better than nothing, keep it coming, keep it coming. I

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Speaker 2: do sense though, that there is sort of this build happening,

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Speaker 2: and nobody's really forgetting that there's a deadline.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely no. People are absolutely talking about it. And again,

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Speaker 4: think of what a big deal that all of the

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Speaker 4: Republicans who did shift, they shifted because they're constituents the

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Speaker 4: people who voted them into power.

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Speaker 5: So literally, the American people are.

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Speaker 4: Like I call ps part pass and it just you know,

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Speaker 4: there is that pressure and listen, politicians want nothing more

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Speaker 4: than to be and stay elected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if in fact it seems like ooh, people

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Speaker 2: may get hurt. You know, I've heard that quote before

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Speaker 2: being said, perhaps even from President Trump himself, What is

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Speaker 2: that even mean?

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Speaker 5: Don't get what did you say during the break trumped? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I guess yeah, in that regard, but yeah, like, is

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Speaker 2: it in fact dangerous? And if so, why so dangerous?

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Speaker 2: Why are these dangerous things in these files that nobody

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Speaker 2: can see. On the one hand, the judge is saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's nothing consequential, and then the other all of the

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Speaker 2: resistance would imply that there is something to resist, and

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Speaker 2: I guess we all just want to know what.

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Speaker 5: So, just to clear things up in my head, I

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Speaker 5: had in my head it's December eighteenth, but it's December nineteenth.

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Speaker 5: The deadline, right, ten, we're counter day ten. To make

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Speaker 5: sure we do it every day. Sleep ten sleeps, Okay,

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Speaker 5: want to make sure sleep.

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Speaker 2: That's great, Courtney, ten sleeps until the Epstein files are released.

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Speaker 2: What is everybody wishing for for Christmas? Ask me for

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Speaker 2: the Epstein files.

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Speaker 5: That's right, and Steph's going to be sitting on her

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Speaker 5: living room with papers all around here.

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Speaker 2: I know, yes, yes, that is my Christmas wish on

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Speaker 2: behalf of all victims anywhere and everywhere.

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Speaker 5: So I'll wait for somebody to make a searchable database.

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Speaker 5: I'll help with that. Okay, there we go in court.

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Speaker 2: You said there was another judge with an update as well.

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Speaker 5: There sure is.

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Speaker 4: So this is a federal judge in Florida who has

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Speaker 4: agreed to the Trump administration's request to release grand jury

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Speaker 4: transcripts from the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein in the

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Speaker 4: mid two thousands.

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Speaker 5: Again, Epstein was a wealthy financier.

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Speaker 4: He was investigated over a really long time for sexually

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Speaker 4: exploiting and trafficking underage girls. Also for a very long time,

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Speaker 4: and he did this with the help of his longtime

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Speaker 4: associate and fellow convicted sex offender, Geelaane Maxwell. So, okay,

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Speaker 4: this happened a couple of days ago. US District Judge

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Speaker 4: Rodney Smith, he was appointed by President Trump, and said

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Speaker 4: that the new Epstein Transparent Yet Transparency Act overrides the

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Speaker 4: usual federal rule that keeps grand jury material secret.

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Speaker 5: So that relates back to the previous issue too. That's

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Speaker 5: exactly right.

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Speaker 4: So this, you know, I had inadvertently punned it and said,

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Speaker 4: you know, this trumps the usual federal rule.

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Speaker 5: This new law rights but a competition of a habeas

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Speaker 5: corpus release. So's going to be an issue anyway.

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Speaker 2: And let's remember the significance of that particular trial. So again,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, we're in

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Speaker 2: West Palm Beach. Jeffrey Epstein, the financier, is brought up

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Speaker 2: on charges allegedly there were many women on this list

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Speaker 2: in many victims, although ultimately he was only charged with

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Speaker 2: sexually assaulting one of them. I believe she was sixteen

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Speaker 2: years old. He pled guilty in an ex change for

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Speaker 2: that guilty plea got a real sweet deal and a

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Speaker 2: deal I can't even call it a deal. It's egregious.

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Speaker 5: It was what happens, and just be just so people know,

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Speaker 5: he got to basically go home, right. He would be

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Speaker 5: at prison to sleep, right, and then he would wake

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Speaker 5: up in the morning and like go home.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and he would go to and then he would

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Speaker 2: go back about his day to.

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Speaker 5: Sleep, okay. Right, it was you could go to the

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Speaker 5: office and let's not forget that non prosecutorial uh you know,

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Speaker 5: to his conspirators.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: So he got the sweetheart deal where I'll plead guilty,

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Speaker 5: but you can't go after any of my.

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Speaker 2: Friends, right, And that's what in this exactly, Okay, So

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Speaker 2: that gets you know, that was the alex Acosta piece

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Speaker 2: of this story. We heard about this originally from Lisa Bryant,

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Speaker 2: the director of Filthy Rich, the documentary on Netflix about

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Speaker 2: both Elaine Maxwell and Epstein. So she brought to our

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Speaker 2: attention at the time alex Acosta, who was then he

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Speaker 2: was the what was he Florida? Yeah, exactly, And somehow

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Speaker 2: this cakewalk deal gets out to this, you know, successful

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Speaker 2: white man who gets to go to jail part time

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Speaker 2: and check out at night even though he's a sex offender,

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Speaker 2: and that's when he has to register as a sex offender.

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Speaker 2: That becomes a big deal because a we all have

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Speaker 2: been curious, you know, via alex Acosta, why did he

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Speaker 2: get that deal in the first place, who arranged for that?

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Speaker 2: And number two, what happened to the other victims on

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Speaker 2: that very large list that we know was in existence

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Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly allegedly And why that little sweetheart deal about

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Speaker 2: not being able to convict any of his co conspirators.

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Speaker 2: Now fast forward decades later, here we are now today,

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Speaker 2: real time. Gile Maxwell is like, oh, yeah, by the way,

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't even be here in the first place. You

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Speaker 2: guys weren't even allowed to bring up charges in the

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Speaker 2: first place, because remember that deal, but alex Acosta made

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Speaker 2: back in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: I should not have been charged in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, body, you have a question, Okay, so I

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Speaker 2: just want to lay let's set the table. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's set the table. Set this table, because I have questions.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I really kind of started learning about Epstein through you, okay,

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Speaker 5: because I didn't really follow the Epstein stuff, but you

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Speaker 5: got me kind of looked. Okay, just being real. Welcome,

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the rabbit hole, right, Okay, Well, okay, so

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Speaker 5: this grand jury situation, they're releasing the grand jury transcripts

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Speaker 5: from Florida from the two thousands. What about the grand

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Speaker 5: jury transcripts that got him in the jail where he

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Speaker 5: quote unquote killed himself?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 5: What about the new ones?

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Speaker 2: What was the what were in the documents for what

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Speaker 2: would have been the upcoming trial had he lived, had

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Speaker 2: he not air quotes taken his own life? Allegedly, there

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Speaker 2: was a grand jury that got him arrested, right, that's

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Speaker 2: what we're saying, and indicted, right, Where are those files

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Speaker 2: and that information, because obviously he was brought into custody

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Speaker 2: and was waiting for trial under very difficult circumstances, and

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Speaker 2: as the story goes, he took his own life.

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Speaker 5: Do we know if he was in do we know

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Speaker 5: if he was indicted back then, or was he just

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Speaker 5: arrested at that point?

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Speaker 2: I believe he was standing trial, so he had to

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Speaker 2: have been indicted.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, well you know what, let maybe we can.

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Speaker 2: Just find out. Let's get in there, get it. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the rabbit hole. Let's get let's do it. Let's

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Speaker 2: do that. Let's get in there together. Yes, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: because it's an interesting play along.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's all these ancillary players.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just going to throw out there in case

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Speaker 2: any of our listeners have any more like inside scoop

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Speaker 2: on it. But for example, we've mentioned this before, and

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Speaker 2: it's again we're in the rabbit hole. Robert Barr was

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Speaker 2: the one who was overseeing the autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 2: when he took his own life. Okay, now, remember that

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Speaker 2: was a little controversial. We've heard from many forensics experts.

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Speaker 2: Are As included that there's no way that that was

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Speaker 2: not a homicide, and that you know, there was a

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Speaker 2: missing minutes from the tape, and then Pam Bondy was saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's what always happens. There's always this missing minute, and

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Speaker 2: then we find out that's not entirely true at all.

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Speaker 2: Then it was actually three minutes. And remember the guards

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Speaker 2: were sleeping like a lot of things had to go

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Speaker 2: wrong that night for that story to hold up, so

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Speaker 2: that now we have Bill Barr in the mix here,

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Speaker 2: I think I said Robert Barr Bill Barr. And remember

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Speaker 2: Bill Barr had a father who, decades ago, was the

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Speaker 2: first person who hired Epstein at the Dalton School in

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Speaker 2: New York City for the teaching job that he was

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Speaker 2: not qualified for because he didn't even graduate college. And

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Speaker 2: we've always wondered, like, what is the connective tissue between

435
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: all of these players. I don't know the answer, but

436
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: it seems like there's a lot of crossover from different

437
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: different policymakers and definitely different whether it was a Democratic

438
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: house or a Republican house. Some of the main players

439
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: have remained.

440
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: Alex Acosta included, right, I mean, it's wealth. You're asking

441
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 4: the connection. It's it's wealth, it's power, it's scratched my back.

442
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 4: I'll go ahead and scratch your back. I'll give your

443
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: son entry into this college. You manage my money, get

444
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 4: me three percent more than I really should be getting.

445
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 5: It's all of the above, is my And just to

446
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 5: answer my own question, Jeffrey Epstein was indicted by a

447
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 5: federal grand jury in July twenty nineteen, So I want

448
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 5: those transcripts and at where those are the transcripts that

449
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 5: were going to be getting right now. We're the ones

450
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 5: from Florida into in two thousand and seven or nine.

451
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 7: Those rights the ones that he was not federally indicted

452
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 7: in the mid two thousands, So those are the ones

453
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 7: that we're wanting to see.

454
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 4: This is from the first which is what this federal judge,

455
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: this Florida stuff. That's right exactly, but we'll see, you

456
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 4: know what could be in there. The judge granted the

457
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 4: DOJ's fast tracked request to unseal the transcripts and modify

458
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 4: the protective order that it was under, and Judge Smith

459
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 4: also proved the request to change any protective orders that

460
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: would block the public from seeing these records. So it

461
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 4: was a multi layer thing that had to be done.

462
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 4: And Judge Smith is one of three federal judges that

463
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 4: the dj has asked to unseal materials involving Epstein and Maxwell.

464
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 4: One of three, okay, correct, Judge Rounney Smith was the

465
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 4: first one to rule, and now a second ruling involving

466
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: the Maxwell files has also been granted today, which we

467
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 4: obviously spoke about earlier, and this is actually the DOJ's

468
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 4: second attempt to get these grand jury materials unsealed. Previously,

469
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 4: they were denied because they were made before Congress passed

470
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: the Ebstein Transparency Act, So that really was kind of

471
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: it was a monumental game changer. Now, Judge Smith's order

472
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 4: doesn't say anything about redacting the documents to protect the

473
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 4: privacy of survivors of Epstein. Orgelene Maxwell, I'm not sure

474
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 4: why that wasn't specifically called out. However, the DOJ maintains

475
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: responsibility for those reactions, and officials have said they of

476
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 4: course will do so before making records public.

477
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's been a ridiculous show of nonsense. So,

478
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: I mean this whole year, honestly, from the day this

479
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 2: show started, we have been yapping about this, right, So

480
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: this has been going on for months and months and

481
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 2: months and months and months, right Honestly, it's let's just

482
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: walk down memory lane. Here's Pam Bondy with all the

483
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 2: files on her desk. How about the photo op when

484
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: they're all holding like the binders and binders of information.

485
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 2: Where are all the tapes that were being dragged out

486
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: of the Epstein Island mansion and estate, because allegedly there

487
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: were cameras everywhere, in videotapes everywhere, in the theory being

488
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: that he was being he was honey potting policy leaders

489
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: and world leaders by bringing them and luring them to

490
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: this island, putting them in compromising positions, and then using

491
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: that video as blackmail. And that's very important because that

492
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: blackmail could be seen as policy that's affecting the entire world,

493
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: us included. And the larger fear is that this level

494
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: of trafficking is happening still real time, largest business in

495
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: the world financially speaking. How do we put an end

496
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: to it if we don't even know what it is?

497
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: So please, please, please release the files. Everybody can agree

498
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: on that we don't want to have pedophilia running the show,

499
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: of course, and everybody knows that the victims are begging

500
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: for answers. We've all seen them on Capitol Hill. We've

501
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: even had one here ourselves. Come on, so we're getting,

502
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, spoon fed a little bit. But again we'll

503
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: take the spoon feeding.

504
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 5: Little by little. That's great.

505
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: Just toss us some more bank statements and where all

506
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: the Deutsche Bank statements and.

507
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 5: YadA YadA, YadA.

508
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: Well, I think you mentioned, you know, the taping of

509
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: people and potential blackmail. So what stood out to me

510
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 4: is one of the things that the Department of Justice

511
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 4: can and is allowed to withhold is, you know, victims' identities.

512
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 4: If we've said a million times or to invade someone's privacy, now,

513
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: it could easily be stipulated that some grown man who

514
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: is having completely illegal and inappropriate relations with some girl

515
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 4: who has been trafficked to him, that could be an

516
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 4: invasion of privacy. So let's go ahead and hold that back.

517
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: That's and I want to be so wrong, but that's

518
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: the rub, right, that's the rub. I mean, they it's

519
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 4: pretty broad with the dj can Redact, and it'll honestly

520
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 4: be be up to them what information does come out?

521
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: How about that Marjorie Taylor, though she's not taking no

522
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: for an answer. Suddenly Marjorie Taylor is like the files,

523
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: the files, this is her last leg to stand on.

524
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: I feel like she's going to go down in a

525
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: fight right now, because this is why she's ultimately leaving, right,

526
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: But she's only there for like a couple more weeks though, Yeah, again,

527
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: we have ten days. Let's get the clock going like,

528
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: what's happening behind the scenes, right, who's calling the shots

529
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: behind the scenes? Are people panicking or is this just

530
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: getting you know.

531
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 5: I pretend in a way in my mind's eye, people

532
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 5: are panicking, you know what I mean? Even people, even

533
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 5: innocent people who might have had like a business relationship

534
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 5: with Jeffrey. I've seen, you know, emails back and forth

535
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 5: about their actual finances are probably panicking. That's how I imagine it.

536
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 5: At least.

537
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: Let's go quickly to a.

538
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 8: Talking Hi, everybody, this is Deanna from Georgia.

539
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 5: Again.

540
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 8: I'm catching up on podcast and heard you talking about

541
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 8: Matthew Perry. I just have to give a shout out

542
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 8: to the audiobook his autobiography. He narrated it not long

543
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 8: before he passed away, and it is amazing. So if

544
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 8: you haven't listened to it, you should try it out.

545
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 5: What a great reprevation.

546
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: I love Matthew Perry and I missed him.

547
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: That's a good call. I think I was lucky enough

548
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 4: to have his voice. I mean, I think we all

549
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: have his voice in our collective heads because be exactly. Yeah,

550
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 4: and so I read them. I was very excited. I

551
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: got it for Christmas. Whenever it came out and I

552
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 4: was actually poking around through it again. But I read

553
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: it very quickly over Christmas vacation, and it is.

554
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 5: It's excellent. It's touching.

555
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: It's a real look into addiction, but also a fun read.

556
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's kind of it's all things. I'd recommend

557
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 4: it nice. But the audio, yeah, always.

558
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 7: Probably would be really touching and I might get choked up, say,

559
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 7: listened to it, but that's a great idea.

560
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you, Dana.

561
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, Luigi, what happened today? Did you guys see

562
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: the body cam video? I did slow mow upside down.

563
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 5: I had forgotten, you know, I had forgotten that he

564
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 5: was wearing that mask initially. And you know what's weird,

565
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 5: you guys, like, can I just go go off subject

566
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: like a little tangent for a second. You Okay, he's

567
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 5: wearing this mask and he's got the hoodie on right

568
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 5: as the cops approach him in this video, right, And

569
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 5: just like the day or two prior was the release

570
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 5: of one you know some you know, like when he

571
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 5: was on the run, they were releasing photos that they

572
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 5: had found of him. The day prior, they had released

573
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 5: the photo of him in the cab wearing the mask,

574
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 5: and it's like this really clear picture, right, he had

575
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 5: to know that this picture was out there, and then

576
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 5: he's wearing a mask in the same outfits. What was

577
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 5: he thinking? Yeah, by the way, if you did, you

578
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: want to get arrested.

579
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: He wanted to get arrested. And by the way, I

580
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: find that so interesting because it makes me think of

581
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: something that I was yapping about in my head today

582
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: as well. Right now we're watching Luigi try to get off, right,

583
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: he's basically saying not guilty, not guilty, so meaning he

584
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: didn't do it, and all these technicalities about the gun

585
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: and you know everything that we're witnessing happening in this

586
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: pre trial. If he had a real or real issue

587
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: with health insurance and he had an air Quotes manifesto

588
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: and he had a statement to the system on trial,

589
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: better the system, right, what a whos move?

590
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I deny that this happened.

591
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: To say you're not guilty and try to get everything

592
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: thrown out on a technicality so you can walk at

593
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: least take it like a man and stand.

594
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: Up for what system on trial exactly and use.

595
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: That platform if and again I never do I think

596
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: for a second that there is any reason to murder,

597
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: Certainly not healthcare that he allegedly didn't even have. Don't

598
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: get me started on that. But if that was the

599
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: hill that he was going to die on, then die

600
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 2: on that hill.

601
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 5: Luigi.

602
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: Now we just see you in Core trying to outsmart

603
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: with your outsmart lawyers about technicalities to the Altuna police

604
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: and how they are protocol now should get him free.

605
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 5: You had the.

606
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: Gun, You had a manifesto, whether you call it that

607
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: or not. You had a journal entry telling yourself to

608
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: cut your own eyebrows and to change a clothes. I mean,

609
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: fakacta on this list, like, how could you not remember

610
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: to change a clothes after you murder a person in

611
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: cold blood? We have you on video surveillance pulling out

612
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: a gun. We have him talking about the three D

613
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 2: gun allegedly allegedly, allegedly allegedly But come on, Luigi, like

614
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: you can't have it always right.

615
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 5: I here, here's dale.

616
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: I agree with what you're saying, except for the fact

617
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: that I think you're trying to apply logic to lunacy

618
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: anyone whose end result is and then I'm going to

619
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 4: put a gun in my hand and a bullet in

620
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: someone else, and I'm going to change the healthcare system.

621
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 5: All rationale falls up. Its true, of course, that's so true.

622
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: But seeing him smiling in court and watching him, watch

623
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: those moments when he's tucked in the corner like a

624
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: little sheep dog in his little cap, in his little

625
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: mask and covering his little eyebrows, eating a hash brown,

626
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, shaken like a little leaf. To me, he

627
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: seemed like a kid. You're like this little kid who

628
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: was raised by a really nice family. By all accounts,

629
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: had a lot of opportunity, went to the fanciest of

630
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: fancy schools, valedictorian in high school, goes on to study

631
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: at ivy league schools. I mean, talk about having opportunity

632
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: given to you. Granted, had a terrible back injury, lots

633
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: of heartache there. I can only imagine Primeier River. Luigi.

634
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: So you decided that you're going to make a real

635
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: dent in the world by right bringing this cause to

636
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: the surface.

637
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 5: And therefore all of these girls and fans.

638
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 2: Are outside the courthouse throwing themselves at this idea of Luigi,

639
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: and this little weasel is like, well, I didn't get

640
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 2: a rest, they didn't read me. My Miranda rites in

641
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: the first nineteen minutes. So therefore, like at least Tim Kazinski,

642
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, at least really stood by his nonsense.

643
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 4: He did, you know what, this is one other side

644
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 4: and then we will get to the details of the trial.

645
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 4: But today I was looking up Luig Manjion body cam footage. Okay,

646
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 4: that was my search, and I came upon body a

647
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: body pillow I came upon.

648
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 5: I'm looking at it right now.

649
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 4: I'm not even gonna say from where it's from, but

650
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: it's it's a literally, it's a pillow. People love this

651
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 4: guy and the one I'm looking at it says Saint Luigi,

652
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: and it's a pillow as this one.

653
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: But it's really took a man's life, allegedly in cold blood.

654
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: Like say what you want about the healthcare CEO, with

655
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: all due respect, that guy was like running every piece

656
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: of the show. Right, regardless of what you think about healthcare,

657
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 2: you don't just murder a guy who had two sons

658
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: of his own and a life that he had to

659
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: go home to until Luigi on a cold wintry one.

660
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 5: Year ago today, by the way, happy anniversary one year

661
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 5: ago today, that he was caught. Cort not think about that,

662
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 5: this Altuna police.

663
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: You know, we're seeing the body cam footage. It was

664
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: one year ago today cold, it was rainy. So in

665
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: a very short amount of time, Luigi's been behind bars,

666
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: got lawyered up with the best of the best, the

667
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: best that money can buy. I feel for his family, Like,

668
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: what a bummer.

669
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 5: You have lost?

670
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: Misgiven everything to Luigi and this is what turns out

671
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: in the end, right, m You're right, So don't get

672
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: us started.

673
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 5: Don't get me started. What do you mean you haven't

674
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 5: started yet. I'm totally done.

675
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: I promise to be done. I'm euthanizing myself right now.

676
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 5: If you're just joining us.

677
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 4: We are talking about Luis Jumangione, the twenty seven year

678
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 4: old who's accused of murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson,

679
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: who was caught five days after the alleged his alleged

680
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 4: involvement in the incident. We'd love to hear from you

681
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 4: eight at eight three one crime. So today is the

682
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 4: fifth day of this pre trial hearing. Again, we have

683
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 4: these hearings to decide what will and will not be

684
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 4: ultimately presented to a jury. And Mangione's defense attorneys argue

685
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: that a search of Mangione's backpack upon his arrest violated

686
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 4: his constitutional rights. Meanwhile, the prosecutors are maintaining it was

687
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 4: justified due to the backpack potentially containing dangerous items which

688
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 4: ps it did, Yes, so good, right, and a loaded magazine.

689
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: Imagine if this guy wasn't like a handsome white do

690
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: we think we would all be having this conversation? And

691
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: I say handsome in air quotes because I do not

692
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: want to attach a look to somebody who allegedly took

693
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: another life. But that seems to be the chatter that

694
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: you know, he's a young, handsome guy and therefore he

695
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: should get away with it.

696
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 9: No, I don't think that's the chatter more the healthcare side.

697
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 5: I think it's more like the martyr side.

698
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: I think that in being a martyr, he's like denying it.

699
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 5: Well, that's the thing, right, Like like I was saying earlier,

700
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 5: like I felt initially like he wanted to get arrested

701
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 5: and put the system on trial. But now I think, well,

702
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: maybe I'm wrong about that. But then I realized then

703
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 5: I watched this bodycam footage today and I'm like, that's right.

704
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 5: He had that mask on. I had forgotten about that,

705
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 5: And it's literally the same photo, like his same fit

706
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 5: in everything, like from the photo that was released like

707
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 5: twenty four hours prior. Like what a dummy.

708
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 4: He had a to do list in his backpack and

709
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: on it was a change hat and I guess he

710
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 4: hadn't gotten that far down his list.

711
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 5: Literally it was on his little weird list.

712
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: I was like, how does this guy not know to

713
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: change his own clothes and like his eye watch movies? Yeah,

714
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: to pluck his eyebrows, like I feel like I've seen

715
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: this movie a thousand times, yes, or at least keep

716
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 2: the hat over your eyebrows.

717
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 5: But he didn't do anything correctly yet.

718
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: He somehow got away from midtown Manhattan and through Central

719
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: Park and evaded lots of police and kne where the

720
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: blind spots were and somehow stayed in the hostel and

721
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 2: used a fake ID and got about for many many

722
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: days before being arrested in this McDonald's.

723
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 5: Right, and he had nowhere to go. He had gotten

724
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 5: off the bus. He tried to check into the hotel,

725
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 5: but they were like, and check ins not until you

726
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 5: know whatever. So he's like, well, I guess I'm gonna

727
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 5: have to go to this McDonald's and hang out there

728
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 5: until check in? Why would he hang out in the

729
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 5: McDonald's too?

730
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: Like what just like it was probably and grows out,

731
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: but he wasn't even trying to hide.

732
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 5: Well, no, he looked exactly the same as the polygraph

733
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 5: that all the news stations like every outlet. You know,

734
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 5: you couldn't get away from this photo.

735
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, he had the dumb bullets with the you know

736
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: the pose. Yeah, like that was so clever, and the

737
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: Monopoly money in the backpack.

738
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 5: Remember Monopoly money.

739
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: Like there was a big It was a big start

740
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: in a really bad finish.

741
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: I mean, do you but I remember when all this

742
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 5: was going down. I mean I remember it so well,

743
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 5: and it was just like the monopoly I mean, it

744
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 5: was just like one thing after another, Like at first

745
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 5: I didn't like bullets with Deny defender, pose, what is happening?

746
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 5: And then like a day or two later, Monopoly money,

747
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: what do you talk? What is going on? Because it

748
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 5: seemed like the Riddler or something that was like in

749
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 5: Golden City, all leaving clues and stuff behind. It was

750
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 5: very intriguing. And then you just see this like kind

751
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 5: of mopey guy sitting in the McDonald's eating a hash

752
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 5: brown and it's like, wait a minute, Yeah, this is

753
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 5: the Riddler. What do you This stinks?

754
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: They see the manifesto and it gets real dope, and

755
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: he has a to do list to change his clothes

756
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: and pluck his eyebrows.

757
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 5: The magazine is in like wet great underwe.

758
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: And like he did have like he was trying to

759
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 2: escape because he had that little sleeve, the farritor sleeve.

760
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: What is that where you?

761
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 5: Yeah?

762
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should all get those, right if I have one? Oh,

763
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: of course you do. I do?

764
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 5: What do I guess you keep your phone in it

765
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 5: all the time, so you're not never I don't. I

766
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 5: got it as a gift. I have ever, it's a

767
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 5: great gift. It is a good gift. It goes. It's

768
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 5: in my fireproof safe, which by the way, is also empty.

769
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, I have the same empty So if

770
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 5: I just got it from I think my birth certificates

771
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 5: in there or something like that.

772
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we were really you would use that if

773
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: the grid went down and we were being attacked.

774
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 5: Or something like God, yah, I mean, when am I

775
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 5: going to use a four solar flare attacks?

776
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 9: I don't know.

777
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: To know, But at the time when this all happened.

778
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: You know, Courtney, you and I were working together on

779
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: this case and we were knee deep, like we were

780
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: going through every photo body too, every single photograph. And

781
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 2: you know, I remember thinking, oh, my god, I cracked

782
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: the case. I see the photo with the spine and

783
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: it must be an injury, and oh, it's his injury,

784
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: and he has been having a hard time getting healthcare.

785
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 5: By the way, none of that ended.

786
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: Up being true.

787
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 5: Yes, he had a back injury, but that was the

788
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 5: extent of it. He really changed at this back injury though,

789
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 5: from my understanding, like that personality really kind of shifted

790
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 5: when this back injury happened and he had moved to Hawaii.

791
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: Again, it was a really popular guy, really sociable by

792
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: all accounts, huge family, right, and then he had gone

793
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 2: and taken a remote job in Hawaii so he could

794
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: exercise and be really healthy because that's what he was.

795
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: And I'm remembering this, I think correctly by his former

796
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: roommate gave a lot of interviews at the time, was Jr.

797
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 5: Exactly Jr?

798
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: And JR remembers the time that he was outsurfing and

799
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, had this back injury, and yeah, it was

800
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: debilitating and stole his joy. Anyone who's ever had back

801
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,479
Speaker 2: injury can only imagine, Yeah, it steals your joy.

802
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 5: You don't go I kill somebody. Though.

803
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: He turns out he was not a United Healthcare recipient.

804
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 2: That's not who he was covered by. But again, if

805
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: he was maybe losing I don't think mind, was it depression?

806
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: Is that the issue?

807
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 5: I don't think that was the point though. I don't

808
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 5: think like him being covered by healthcare by that specific

809
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 5: health care was the point. You know, it was the

810
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 5: big picture, like standing up for all Americans. I mean,

811
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 5: that's how listen. I don't think that's what he did.

812
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 5: I think that's what he thought he did. That does

813
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 5: I don't, Yeah, like he's standing up for The target

814
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 5: is insurance. Remember Healthcare is the biggest cast. They're my

815
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 5: carrier and you know, trust me, they suck. But she

816
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 5: didn't mean that. I am still waiting for my mental

817
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 5: health appointment. United Healthcare. Get it together. But you know,

818
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 5: like I think he was trying to stand up for

819
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 5: all Americans. But in his mind, he thought he was

820
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 5: that riddler hero.

821
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: In his mentally ill mind, no doubt right, right, this

822
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: has to be a case of mental illness, and I'm

823
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: surprised that hasn't been brought into the equation at this point.

824
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, well the trial hasn't begun.

825
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: How bad was his back hurt? Now that he is

826
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: sleeping on ah essentially and one of the most you know,

827
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 2: notoriously uncomfortable.

828
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 5: But it is better actually, because sometimes hard surfaces are

829
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 5: better for back injuries, aren't they. I don't think metal

830
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 5: And at that place fast enough, that place was bad.

831
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 5: When are we going to talk about did he? I started?

832
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 5: Keep it here?

833
00:45:58,800 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: Uh?

834
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 5: Did he? Will be tomorrow in depth and then after

835
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 5: the break.

836
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 4: Brian Walsh trial is entering a new phase and there's

837
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 4: some really interesting DNA revelations that are unveiled. Do not

838
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 4: forget give us a call aighted a three to one crime.

839
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 4: We'd love to hear from you.

840
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

841
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

842
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: and Body and we're already in the second hour. So

843
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: if you have missed any of the shows so far,

844
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: please do not worry, not even for a second, because

845
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 2: you can always catch us right after as a podcast,

846
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: and you can always leave us some talkbacks. Speaking of talkbacks,

847
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: we have Jarrett Farentino with us tomorrow, our favorite prosecutor.

848
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: So if you have any legal questions about any of

849
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: the cases that we've been covering specifically, go ahead and

850
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: leave us talkbacks, or you could always leave a voicemail,

851
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: even overnight at eight eight eight three. One crime, little

852
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: old school, but we will get it and we can

853
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: still play it on the show. So keep them coming.

854
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: So back to Luigi Courtney, because we know that there

855
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: were some new details that you wanted.

856
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 5: To share, and Stephanie and I just were like blah blah,

857
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 5: blah blah. So let's let's hear what happened in court today.

858
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 4: But it's a lot, I mean, all valid and a lot,

859
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 4: you know, a lot to say. But in today was

860
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 4: the fifth day of the pre trial hearings for Luigi Mangione.

861
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 4: If you're just catching us, he Mangio, Knie, it's it's

862
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 4: a really, it's the struggle.

863
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 5: I hear mass.

864
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: I know, I hop over go with Mangion if you want.

865
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 4: Okay, So Mangione, he is the man who's accused of

866
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. And that was one

867
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 4: year and five days ago when the shooting happened, and

868
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 4: one year ago today is when he was captured at

869
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 4: a Pennsylvania McDonald's. So today in court, Officer Stephen Fox

870
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 4: testified about the search and this is all about when

871
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 4: man je oone was approached by local police officers who

872
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 4: came to the McDonald's because one of the managers called

873
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 4: nine on one and said, Hey, I think this is

874
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 4: the guy who the national manhunt is trying to find.

875
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: Stephen Fox was a responding officer and he testified that

876
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 4: the backpack search was conducted as a search incident to arrest,

877
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: and it was done without a warrant, but that was

878
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 4: due to a concern that it contained a weapon. So

879
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 4: it is a search incident to arrest. It is a

880
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 4: legal exception to the Fourth Amendments a warrant requirement, and

881
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 4: it does allow police to conduct a warrantless search if

882
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 4: an arrestor of an arrestee's person and the area within

883
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 4: what they call their wingspan, so anything they can immediately control.

884
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 5: And this is for.

885
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 4: Safety is why why it happens. And Officer Fox had

886
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 4: he did the search and when his colleague who testified yesterday,

887
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 4: Officer Wasser pulled out a loaded magazine wrapped in a

888
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 4: pair of the aforementioned wet gray underpants. You can hear

889
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 4: Wasser saying it's effing him, dude. So at that time

890
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 4: they knew he indeed was the guy who the manhunt

891
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 4: was after. Anyone who's curious. Mangione had a jar of

892
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 4: peanut butter and a knife in his pockets, which he

893
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: alerted the officers to when he was being frisk and

894
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 4: this goes if you guys remember he also had a

895
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 4: loaf of bread.

896
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 5: It reminds me of the sesame tree.

897
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 4: So also included was the to do list, which we

898
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 4: touched on a little bit in the backpack, and you

899
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 4: know the plucking of the eyebrows which he didn't get

900
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 4: var on his to do list.

901
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 2: To do list is that at hand, I can't handle

902
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: the to do list. If you haven't seen it, I

903
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: almost want to post it on our website. The to

904
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: do list is just too much.

905
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and here's just a few little odds and ends,

906
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 4: like little bobbits that came out on the stand. So

907
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 4: Officer Fox testified that Mangione, the accused, expressed concern for

908
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 4: the McDonald's manager's privacy and wanted to know if their

909
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 4: identity was going to be released, and said, oh, it

910
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 4: would be bad for her if.

911
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 5: It did, so, I don't know, just to take thought ball,

912
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 5: so thought ball. He also apologized for being suspicious. Remember,

913
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 5: like the cop approached him and he's like, you know,

914
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 5: they think you're suspicious, and Luigi says, oh, I'm sorry.

915
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then once they had him handcuffed, he must

916
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: have like almost tripped a little bit or something, and

917
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: you know, the officer was like, oh, I'm so sorry,

918
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: you know, realizing he's shackled, and his response was, well,

919
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: I guess i'd get better get used to this being

920
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 2: in shackles.

921
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

922
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 2: Do you think he's losing his mind? At that point,

923
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: he looked pretty relaxed, but nervously pretty.

924
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 5: He looked like a little kid.

925
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: Like I imagined his mother like seeing this today and

926
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: just thinking that is like my little boy, Like where

927
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: did this go? So sideways?

928
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 5: What a waste? What a waste? So sad? I mean,

929
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 5: what a waste.

930
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 4: Brian Thompson who lost his life, Mangione, who life will

931
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 4: not be any family.

932
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: All ruined, you know, Brian Thompson, The victims children's lives

933
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: are forever changed. Obviously in you know, the immediate family, friends,

934
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: all the things, and even Mangioni's family, you know, there

935
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: forever change. It's a real scene.

936
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, it really is. One last thing that stood out

937
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 5: to me.

938
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 4: It is just kind of odd that Officer Fox said

939
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 4: on the stand. So he was one of the people

940
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 4: who helped transfer Mangione to the courthouse for his arraignment.

941
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 4: They at that point were met with a huge group

942
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: of media, and on the stand, Officer Fox said that

943
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 4: Mangione turned to him as they were leaving and said, quote,

944
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: all these people here for a mass murderer.

945
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 5: Why a mask murder?

946
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 9: That's correct himself is a mass murder.

947
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 5: It doesn't make I thought.

948
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: I thought he meant masked because he was wearing his

949
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: actual like mask, so I heard it different.

950
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 5: But I'm sure I'm wrong.

951
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: I'm also deaf in one year, so take that with

952
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 2: a grain of salt. But I didn't hear a mass murder.

953
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: I heard masked.

954
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 5: Well, if you know what he said, give us a

955
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 5: call thirty one Crime and hit us up on the

956
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 5: talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. Right.

957
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 2: I was so curious too, do we see his parents

958
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: or any of his family members in court today. I

959
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: don't know what they look like enough to even know.

960
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 5: No, I don't know. Yeah, we only get still photos

961
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 5: right because it's.

962
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 7: Federal, correct, So I have not seen anything with the

963
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 7: parents as of yet.

964
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I haven't seen anything like much ado outside

965
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: of the courthouse, et cetera. You know, when we were

966
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 2: watching the Diddy trial, for example, you know, you would

967
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: see the family members and Janee his mother walking in

968
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 2: or his children walking in as a show of you know, solidarity.

969
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 2: We also saw this in the Brian Coburger case. So yeah,

970
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I know he has a very loving family

971
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: and like hundred cousins. I'm slightly exaggerating, but I saw

972
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: a family photo of all the manchies and there's a

973
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: lot of them, and they're all just this really lovely.

974
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 5: They not come to like these are pre trial hearings,

975
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 5: so they might not come to those. They might wait

976
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 5: for the trial. If anything, you know, you get to

977
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 5: seek him in person. If it's your.

978
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 2: Baby, you know, I know, I know, yeah, I might

979
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: call him a baby. I'm mad at this baby.

980
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 5: No, and then year old man.

981
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: He a baby.

982
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 4: He's a murderer allegedly, yes, and speaking of Just to clarify,

983
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 4: he the officer on the stand did say mass as

984
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 4: in multiple so just which again has no bearing on

985
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 4: the facts that we're aware of, but that's what was said.

986
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: But now, body, I think that we are going to

987
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 4: turn our attention to mister Brian Walsh.

988
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 5: We are actually are going to go to a.

989
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 9: Talk back good Morning True Crime. G here.

990
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 5: I just find it so strange that in today's world,

991
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 5: this Brian Walsh character would take time to do all

992
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 5: these Google searches. I mean, you know people are going

993
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 5: to find them.

994
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: Where is your brain? Is he just go outside of

995
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 2: his head because of what he just did to his wife?

996
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 4: I don't know.

997
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 2: Crazy world we live in. And by the way, some

998
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 2: of these Google searches, great question, we're asking ourselves the

999
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 2: same ones. He's a douf, he's a duke. But he

1000
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: was also doing these searches prior to her death.

1001
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 5: Prior to her death as well, right, I believe this

1002
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 5: was premeditated murder one. But yeah, no, he's Gigi. He

1003
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,479
Speaker 5: is not the brightest. Every team needed it to do list, Yeah,

1004
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 5: he needed it to do list washing. Something I missed yesterday,

1005
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 5: you know, we were talking about the video of Brian Walsh.

1006
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 5: He's the accused wife killer out of Massachusetts. Okay. He's

1007
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 5: accused of killing his wife, Anna Walsh. Okay. Now, Anna

1008
00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 5: was killed and dismembered and distributed throughout the city of

1009
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 5: Boston area, Okay. And he admits that he's guilty of

1010
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 5: dismembering her, but he says that he did not kill her.

1011
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 5: So that's just the basic synopsis of the case.

1012
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: Right.

1013
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 5: But he is seen on the Loew's surveillance video of

1014
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 5: the cash renster buying these items, right, And we were

1015
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 5: talking about it yesterday how he's kind of like smiling

1016
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 5: into the camera and like, you know, fixing his hair

1017
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 5: and whatnot. I didn't notice this yesterday, but I rewatched

1018
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 5: it again last night because I sent you guys a video.

1019
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 5: And there's a little kid in this video. It's and

1020
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 5: I look, it's his son. He brought one of his kids.

1021
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 5: And I don't know if there's other kids in the

1022
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 5: in the video. I only saw one to buy the

1023
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 5: items to dismember their mother. And he's standing there watching

1024
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 5: his dad check out with hack saws and taivek suits

1025
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 5: and you know, mops and buckets. And I'm just like,

1026
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 5: I just wanted to strangle him myself when I saw

1027
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 5: this again and last night, I was like, we.

1028
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: Even I don't know if we talked about this on

1029
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: the show or during the break because we were curious

1030
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 2: where were the kids during we talked about him.

1031
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 5: So that was one piece of it.

1032
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: And it's funny you bring that up because I had

1033
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: noticed also that here he was checking out his you know,

1034
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 2: saw and things to ultimately, you know, hack up his

1035
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 2: beloved wife, and there's this little like random kid online

1036
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 2: or in the background. I'm thinking, you know, it's funny.

1037
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 2: You go to Low's or any of these stores, you

1038
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: don't think who's around me? Can you imagine You're just

1039
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: like having a regular day shopping after the New year

1040
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: for your home goods, and in front of you the

1041
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: man that looks perfectly normal, who's checking out I assume

1042
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: he's cutting down a tree, but no, he's actually about

1043
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 2: to go hack his wife. And here's a little kid,

1044
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: not even thinking that little kid was his.

1045
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, this guy, this is the child.

1046
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 9: He's doing this to protect the kids.

1047
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 5: A joke I hate.

1048
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 2: Can we hear anything more ridiculous? Walsh for his children?

1049
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, He's today was day seven, and let

1050
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 5: me tell you it was a snoozefest today. There was

1051
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 5: like an it started out with like an hour long sidebar,

1052
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 5: and I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, I'm like

1053
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 5: falling asleep, like when is this going to start? And

1054
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 5: then it starts and I'm like, oh my god, I

1055
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 5: can hear myself just like zoning out, like in my

1056
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 5: head just looking at Brian Walsh in his stupid sweater. Anyway,

1057
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 5: so today was now that I have vented, Here's what happened.

1058
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 5: Today was day seven in the murder trial for the

1059
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 5: accused Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh. Today's proceedings, the prosecutors

1060
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 5: presented the DNA evidence leaking the victim his wife on

1061
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 5: a Walsh two key evidentary items. Brian Walsh's defense emphasizes

1062
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 5: that DNA testing cannot determine when or how the material

1063
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 5: was topopod. The accused killer, Brian Walsh, is on trial

1064
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 5: for first degree murder of his wife, who disappeared on

1065
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 5: New Year's Day twenty twenty three. The accused Brian Walsh,

1066
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 5: has admitted to dismembering the body right, but he continues

1067
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 5: to dispute the murder charge. Claiming she died of sudden,

1068
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 5: unexplained death. Okay, so that's the synopsis. So today the

1069
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 5: forensics expert from the Massachusetts State Police, they all like

1070
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 5: the whole lab. The whole lab was there today. I

1071
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 5: feel like there was just like witness after witness after

1072
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 5: witstness and they all do like one specific thing, all right,

1073
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 5: and it was it was not exciting, but you know,

1074
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 5: they testified that they did confirm DNA from the victim

1075
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 5: on a Walsh. It was found on multiple items. There

1076
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 5: were stains, oh, the basement floor, they lifted up the

1077
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 5: rug in the basement or you know, and it was

1078
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 5: just blood everywhere and they showed the photo. It was horrific.

1079
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 9: Oh god.

1080
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 10: Uh.

1081
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 5: DNA was found on the basement floor, as I just described,

1082
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 5: a rug, a hacksaw blade, and hatchet. DNA linked both

1083
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 5: to Anna and Brian were found on the interior of

1084
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 5: slippers the Tivik suit that were recovered from like the

1085
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 5: trash tap, and Gau's test showed strong DNA links to

1086
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 5: Brian Walsh, but he was not connected to the blood

1087
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 5: stains found elsewhere. Unknown tissue was recovered from a dumpster

1088
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 5: and it matched victim on a Walsh's DNA blood evidence

1089
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 5: of significance was only detected in the basement. No confirmatory

1090
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 5: blood tests were done in other parts of the home,

1091
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 5: which is gonna come up later because the defense really

1092
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 5: questioned that. The defense Larry Tipton cross examined the witnesses

1093
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 5: and he emphasized, you know, the DNA links you know,

1094
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 5: Anna to the accused, because he admits that he dismembered her.

1095
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 5: But basically he's saying, yeah, there's DNA on the hacksaw

1096
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 5: and whatnot, but nothing nothing in the house that you're

1097
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 5: aware of that could be described as blood spatter. And

1098
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 5: the analyst replied, that's correct. So they're basically trying to

1099
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 5: say that. They're basically trying to say that, yeah, the

1100
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 5: DNA is going to be on there, but that doesn't

1101
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 5: tell you how she died. And there's no blood spatter anywhere.

1102
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 5: Isn't that suspicious?

1103
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 10: Right?

1104
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 5: That's basically what they're I think they can't tell if

1105
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 5: that he drugged her or knocked her out those things.

1106
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: And by the way, the kids are home and at

1107
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: this point, while he's hacking her up in his bedroom,

1108
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 2: which she's allegedly in the basement, so the kids are

1109
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: in the house.

1110
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know that. We don't know yet, so

1111
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 5: we're up to stay tuned for that. But there's a

1112
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 5: you know, I really want to talk to Jarrett Farantino

1113
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 5: tomorrow about the defense strategy because the defense I think

1114
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,479
Speaker 5: is doing a good job with this. They're basically saying, yeah,

1115
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 5: we admit that he, you know, dismembered her. Of course

1116
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 5: you're going to find DNA in the hecksaw, But that

1117
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 5: DNA doesn't tell you how she died, right, and the

1118
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 5: guy's like.

1119
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: It, Therefore he should just get three years.

1120
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 5: Well, we'll see, we'll see.

1121
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 2: Coming up, a new wrinkle in the Long Island serial

1122
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 2: killer investigation, and the questions get even deeper.

1123
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 5: Keep it right here, True Brentime.

1124
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1125
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

1126
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: and Vadi, and we've been talking a lot about Luigi.

1127
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about Brian Walsh. If you've

1128
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: missed anything, no problem to catch us after as a podcast. Now,

1129
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: there are these new developments both in the David case

1130
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: and also the Long Island serial killer, who we have

1131
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: not spoken about in a while, body take it away.

1132
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 5: Right, So we haven't talked about the Long Island serial

1133
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 5: killer in quite some time, that's right. But you know,

1134
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 5: there were several victims and there were I believe three

1135
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 5: that were being tied to him. Well, no four, actually

1136
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 5: they were being told but they were like, sure, but

1137
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 5: we've got an answer on two of them now, Okay.

1138
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 5: So a Florida man, Andrew Dykes, was indicted. Of course,

1139
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 5: that starts with Florida. I know, I know. It was

1140
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 5: indicted for the murders of a Tanya Denise Jackson and

1141
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 5: her two year old daughter near Gilgo Beach, and authorities

1142
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 5: have confirmed that their deaths are not linked to the

1143
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 5: Long Island serial killer. The victims, Tanya Denise Jackson known

1144
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 5: as Peaches, and her daughter Tatiana known as Baby Doe,

1145
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 5: they were discovered years apart near Gilgo Beach, right, and

1146
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 5: that's where Rex Humerman, the Long Island serial killer, basically

1147
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 5: would place his victims. So when they found these two,

1148
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 5: there were a lot of assumptions going around that, you know,

1149
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 5: Rex Humorman was probably responsible for these two as well,

1150
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 5: but there was never any evidence and he was hasn't

1151
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 5: never been charged with those with those murders. But they

1152
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 5: arrested this guy, Andrew Dykes, and he is the father

1153
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 5: of the baby do so we don't. He was indicted

1154
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 5: by a grand jury. He's being extradited to New York.

1155
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 5: But we don't know exactly what evidence, like in totality,

1156
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 5: that they have against him yet, but we're gonna definitely learn.

1157
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,959
Speaker 5: For those who don't know about the Long Island serial killer,

1158
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 5: can we just get into that real quick? Yeah, for sure.

1159
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 5: So the alleged uh, let's just say Lisk, Long Island

1160
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 5: serial killer Lisk. It's a lot easier for me to say, Okay,

1161
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 5: the alleged Lisk. His name is Rex Hureman and he

1162
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 5: is an what he was an architect out of Massapeka Park,

1163
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 5: New York.

1164
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 2: Which is a beautiful part of Long Yeah, about forty

1165
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: five minutes outside New York City.

1166
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 5: Right, I have a lot of family right there, do

1167
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 5: you really? Yeah?

1168
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: Right?

1169
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Wow? Well, rex Hureman Lisk. He's been charged with

1170
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 5: killing seven women, six of whom were found along the

1171
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 5: beach area. Three additional charges were added in twenty twenty four.

1172
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 5: So he was initially charged with the Gilgo Beach four

1173
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 5: and then they added three more and people were kind

1174
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 5: of thinking that they were going to add you know,

1175
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 5: peaches to this this list, but never they never did.

1176
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 5: So he's being accused of killing seven women, and you

1177
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 5: know a lot of them were sex workers and he

1178
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 5: would lure them out, and there's a lot of evidence

1179
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 5: against him. You know, Courtney, we were just talking about

1180
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 5: the push pins in the ceiling, you know, during the

1181
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 5: documentaries the what was the documentary called again God, it

1182
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 5: was so good too. It's on Peacock, right, it's on

1183
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 5: Peacock and well, in this documentary they talked about how

1184
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 5: he had this basement, you know, Rex here and I

1185
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 5: had this base area. He was torturing women down there.

1186
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 5: It was just really terrible. I don't want to get

1187
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 5: into all of it because it's just really disgusting. But

1188
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 5: he had this you know, those ceilings with like the

1189
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 5: little holes like it. The time got almost like it

1190
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 5: was almost like yeah, and he he would specifically use

1191
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 5: push pins to like hang things from and dry and

1192
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 5: whatnot because they wouldn't leave like evidence, noticeable marks, noticeable marks, right.

1193
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 4: And the documentary was the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets,

1194
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 4: And in this House of Secrets includes what you're talking

1195
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 4: about was basically a torture chamber, no kind of a

1196
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 4: Lester style, put them in like vices and essentially torture

1197
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 4: them for long periods of time in his family home,

1198
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 4: I might add where he had a wife, and he

1199
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 4: had a daughter, and he had a son of special

1200
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 4: needs with special needs.

1201
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 5: And his wife is from Iceland, and you know, she

1202
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 5: would go to Iceland to visit her family and bring

1203
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 5: the kids, and that's when these murders would happen, when

1204
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 5: the wife was out of town. You know, he basically

1205
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 5: used his his family as like camouflage, right. Really he

1206
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 5: left behind them and his wife was was. I don't

1207
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 5: know she still is because I don't know what her

1208
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 5: standing is now. I know that her house is decorated

1209
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 5: for Christmas, and it's all, yeah, I know, I thought

1210
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 5: that was strange. So a co stroll of things.

1211
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 2: You know. In that same documentary, they do a sit

1212
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 2: down interview with Rex Humerman's wife now ex wife, but

1213
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 2: she stands by her man, and in that interview seems

1214
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 2: pretty devoted to Rex and still in full denial that

1215
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 2: this could be true. Now cut to close to a

1216
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 2: year later, I'm curious if her tune has changed. My

1217
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: vote is that he's going to plead out. I mean,

1218
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 2: the evidence has really stacked against him. And these new

1219
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: developments with Peaches and Peach's child so heartbreaking. Sotas, there's

1220
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: some closure. I'm so glad that it was always sort

1221
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: of an outsider.

1222
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 5: It matched. She had a different circumstance. There were not allowed.

1223
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 5: She was still a military, she was African American. She

1224
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 5: matched the victimology basically, right, That's why she didn't match.

1225
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 5: But she was found in that area. So what happened

1226
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 5: was there was like a training exercise for this canine unit, right,

1227
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 5: and they were out there doing their exercises and they

1228
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 5: stumbled across the first body of the Go Go beach

1229
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 5: four and then you know, the cop is like, oh

1230
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 5: my god, I found this body. And then like a

1231
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 5: day or two later, they found another one, and they

1232
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 5: just kept finding body after body because then they realized,

1233
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 5: oh my god, we got a problem. But this body

1234
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 5: had been sitting out there for years and years and

1235
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 5: years and years. I mean these rex unine killed these

1236
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 5: women over a span of decades and.

1237
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 2: Then would go back to his house and go back

1238
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: to his job as an architect in New York City

1239
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: with his daughter. He would often travel on the Long

1240
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 2: Island Railroad on the daily, like every other Long Islander

1241
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 2: does commutes to the city for their you know, New

1242
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 2: York City job.

1243
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:50,600
Speaker 5: But you know, I'm from the.

1244
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 2: Long Island La gran Konkma, not too far from where

1245
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 2: this all happened. And you know, this case was the

1246
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 2: case that we all talked about all the time. You know,

1247
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 2: there had to be answers. We even believed in our hearts.

1248
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 2: According will laugh, but like I say this so often,

1249
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,879
Speaker 2: for a very long time, we believed that my oldest

1250
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: brother went to high school with the Long Island serial killer.

1251
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 5: But you know, and then there was all.

1252
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 2: This nefarious behavior at the Suffolk County Police Department during

1253
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 2: that time period. By the way, all these things can

1254
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: be true at the same time.

1255
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 5: And it's funny.

1256
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 2: We just never really did this case deeply for either

1257
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 2: a podcast or a documentary sly because it was too

1258
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 2: close to home. Honestly, Like I just it kind of

1259
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:38,959
Speaker 2: that gives.

1260
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 5: You a unique perspective to tell the story that's true. Listen,

1261
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 5: I think you guys do a really good job with

1262
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 5: your podcast, like your you know in Cells and Idaho

1263
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 5: four and you know, most specifically Piked and massacre. I mean,

1264
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 5: you guys do a really good job telling those long

1265
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 5: I think you should. Just my opinion, and I would definitely, I.

1266
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 2: Mean say, I feel like we know so much about it,

1267
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 2: but I always felt a little close to home. And then,

1268
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 2: you know, is it going to turn out that there's

1269
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 2: a person involved that we all knew growing up? Not

1270
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: that we do, but yeah, and now it seems like

1271
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,799
Speaker 2: Rex is really the guy, and I am pretty curious

1272
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 2: to know if he's going to actually go to trial.

1273
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 2: There doesn't seem to be a trial date set in

1274
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 2: any way.

1275
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 4: No, I believe that was His next court date is

1276
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 4: scheduled for January thirteenth.

1277
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, when they the judge made a ruling about some

1278
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 5: DNA that they they basically had to build DNA. And

1279
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 5: you remember we had CC on CC Moore and she

1280
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 5: was talking about this lab in California that had to

1281
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 5: basically build this DNA and it's the first time in

1282
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 5: New York that they've allowed this kind of DNA to

1283
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 5: be you know, brought in. And when that happened, the

1284
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 5: scuttle butt, you know, in the news articles was that

1285
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 5: the trial would was likely to start in the summer

1286
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty six, so we still have a long

1287
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 5: way to go with Lisk. Now, the judge did rule

1288
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 5: in Lisk that all seven counts against him, you know,

1289
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 5: the murder charges against him, can be tried at once,

1290
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 5: which is such a big deal. Yeah, it's a big,

1291
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 5: big deal.

1292
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 7: So tell me, because I don't know if that doesn't

1293
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:22,799
Speaker 7: often happen, and why why does it?

1294
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 5: I mean, there's not a Listen, there's not a lot

1295
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 5: of people that you know, go to trial for serial killings,

1296
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 5: So there's not a I mean the obviously there's history there,

1297
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 5: but there's not a ton right right, right, So sometimes

1298
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 5: what would happen is they'll get charged with one and

1299
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 5: then get convicted of it, and then two years later

1300
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 5: they'll find another body and then they'll get convicted of that,

1301
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So to do all seven

1302
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 5: at once is kind of it's it's definitely a win

1303
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 5: for the prosecution, I will exactly.

1304
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 4: And in this case, the cell phone that the cell

1305
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 4: phone evidence he featured incredibly prominently. I'd have to imagine

1306
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 4: in trial because a lot of the evidence has Huberman's

1307
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 4: burner phones and you see him going from his home

1308
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 4: in long Island to the to Manhattan and back. And

1309
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 4: then also it's lining up with when he's hitting up

1310
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 4: some of the victims on their cell phones.

1311
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 5: I mean, it is well, that seems so clear as day.

1312
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 5: Not only that that's so true, but not only that,

1313
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 5: he also would carry around his victims phones with them

1314
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 5: his burners and they would travel together to the Manhattan

1315
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 5: office and back, or or he would dump in New York.

1316
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 5: And you know what I mean, talk.

1317
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 4: About needing a to do list, and talk about also

1318
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 4: he had that scary list, remember that inventory list he had,

1319
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 4: He had a checklist.

1320
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 2: The only thing positive that came out of this case,

1321
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 2: the only thing that can be gleaned as silver lining,

1322
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 2: is just that all of the moms of these women,

1323
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 2: the victims, got really tossed aside because they were, oh

1324
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 2: they're on drugs, or oh they're you know, she's turning tricks,

1325
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 2: or it is an escort, so okay, therefore she should

1326
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: be in a burla distarted into the dunes.

1327
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 5: On Long Islands, Gilgo Beach.

1328
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: What was always kind of crazy making it was so

1329
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 2: dismissive and and frankly, it was really sloppy police work

1330
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 2: at that time, because who knows why. Bigger story probably there.

1331
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: Listen to the podcast We'll.

1332
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 4: Tell you all about it was just.

1333
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 2: Because that also was very telling. The girls didn't get

1334
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 2: their proper set and it's crazy making and because of

1335
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 2: these moms, the families, they were not letting it go.

1336
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 2: And then they got together, they banned together, they did,

1337
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 2: and then it became they became unstoppable.

1338
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 5: To this day, they are unstoppable. I think there's a

1339
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 5: documentary about them. Yeah, it's excellent on Amazon. Oh, it's

1340
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 5: on Amazon. I think it's on Amazon.

1341
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 2: I could be wrong.

1342
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 5: It was Netflix.

1343
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 2: You're very good. They're all of the so far, the

1344
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 2: two documentaries that I've seen on the topic are both excellent.

1345
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're very good.

1346
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 9: Girl.

1347
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 5: Yeah that was good. It was really good. But yeah, no,

1348
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 5: so so Netflix.

1349
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 9: Anyway.

1350
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 5: I think it's the Gong Girls. Yeah, so anyway, So

1351
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 5: the trial is apparently supposed to happen in twenty twenty six.

1352
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 2: Obviously we'll be following it very closely. Stephanie and Courtney

1353
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 2: both have you know, familial ties to that area, so

1354
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: we'll definitely be following it.

1355
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 5: And the victim, Peaches and her beautiful daughter, you know,

1356
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 5: baby Doe is now they now have names, because for

1357
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 5: a while it was just Peaches and baby dough, and

1358
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 5: she was called Peaches because you know, one of the

1359
01:14:55,200 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 5: identifying features of the of her remains was a peaches tattoo. Yep.

1360
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 5: So for a long time nobody knew who she was.

1361
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 5: It was just Peaches and baby Dough. Well, now they

1362
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:13,440
Speaker 5: have a name, Tanya Denise Jackson and her daughter Tatiana,

1363
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 5: and the father of Tatiana, Andrew Dykes, who resides in

1364
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 5: Florida now, is being extradited to New York for her

1365
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 5: murder there there, So that's a blessing that long over,

1366
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 5: long overdo. And we can put a pin in that that,

1367
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 5: you know, Lisk is not responsible for that murder or

1368
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 5: those two murders, I'd say, But yeah, we should definitely

1369
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 5: unpack this a little bit more, you know, go over

1370
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 5: the list, bring everybody back up to speed on, you know,

1371
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 5: because I mean, there's so many things. There's so many things, right.

1372
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: What were the pushpins for, Like, so he was putting

1373
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,839
Speaker 2: what was he taking the pushpins and putting on the ceiling?

1374
01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 4: Well, it was contraptions, was part of it to this

1375
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 4: sort of.

1376
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 9: I thought it was a protective something like a plastic

1377
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 9: or something.

1378
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 5: The plastic you know, like the Dexter style seating. Yeah,

1379
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 5: you know how Dexter had like those kill rooms Dexter

1380
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 5: the TV show, and he would have those plastic you

1381
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 5: know rooms and he would yeah that he would push

1382
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 5: pin them into the ceilings so that he you know,

1383
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 5: there would the splatter and whatnot would be a fews,

1384
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 5: what a wild If you've seen this house, it's a

1385
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 5: beautiful neighborhood and it's the scariest house on the block.

1386
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: It looks like a dungeon downside, and you don't treat

1387
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 2: a you know, so exactly, you know, if one needs

1388
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 2: blow by, and you know that's a real thing. You know,

1389
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 2: even for his kids, they were probably living in the

1390
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 2: house that everyone was like, what's up with that house? Yeah,

1391
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,639
Speaker 2: and the guy's an architect. I might add he's an architect,

1392
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 2: but you know for the family, like you think you're

1393
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 2: going home and that you would sense it, it doesn't

1394
01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 2: appear that they sensed it. You know, this guy car

1395
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 2: it up his tracks pretty good. Well.

1396
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 5: I know that btk's daughter, cart Carrie is talking to

1397
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 5: the Long Island serial killer's daughter, and you know, because

1398
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 5: they both share this thing in common, and it's in

1399
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 5: that documentary, the conversations, and so I hope that Carrie

1400
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 5: is helping, you know, her kind of get through it,

1401
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 5: because I know she's very torn up about it. You know,

1402
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 5: could you imagine? I cannot imagine. Now I can't either.

1403
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 5: It just has to be the worst feeling. And you know,

1404
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 5: by all accounts, Rex was kind of like a normal dad,

1405
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,639
Speaker 5: you know, and you know, he had this beautiful daughter,

1406
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 5: and she's just like, oh my god, what am I doing?

1407
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 5: I should love them. I think his son is the

1408
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 5: step son, but they were like a little perfect family

1409
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 5: and it's just been shattered by this.

1410
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 9: It's awful.

1411
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 5: Well, stick around because we've got more to dig into.

1412
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 5: I am going to talk some crap about Brian Coberger,

1413
01:17:52,560 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 5: so stay tuned for that. It's Bananas Crime Tonight.

1414
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1415
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Staph here with Courtney

1416
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 2: and Body and listen, we want to go straight to

1417
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,560
Speaker 2: a talkback, but we still have David to get to

1418
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 2: and also Body has an update on Brian Coberger, So

1419
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 2: let's go to the talkback.

1420
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 5: First.

1421
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 10: Good evening, It's Cynthia from Canada calling, just calling regards

1422
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 10: to the lawsuit that was filed by the Idaho victims family.

1423
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 10: I'm surprised it has taken so long for them to

1424
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 10: file the suit against the university, and I hope that

1425
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 10: the outcome is what they're looking for. I also hope

1426
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 10: that the university takes this as a lesson and changes

1427
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 10: their policies and puts better safeguards in place for the

1428
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 10: students that attend their university and the community at Lard.

1429
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 5: Have a great night, bye, good point. You know, it

1430
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 5: took a long time, right, But here's the thing. In

1431
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,679
Speaker 5: contrary to popular belief, the families of victims really don't

1432
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 5: know a lot more than we do. You know, they

1433
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 5: don't because it's the sanctity of the trial, right, So

1434
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 5: they really do. They hear a lot of rumors and

1435
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 5: gossip and think, you know, people feed them things and whatnot,

1436
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 5: but they don't really know everything until we do, right,

1437
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 5: And we only just learned about all these reports. You

1438
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 5: had heard some gossip and whatnot, but you know, the

1439
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 5: the you know, the Washington State University and the Idaho

1440
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 5: State Police, you know, they were able to talk to

1441
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 5: people and get these you know, reports about how Brian

1442
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 5: Coberger was behaving at WSU and so it's kind of

1443
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 5: new information. So it's for you know, the whole thing

1444
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 5: about you know, it took them a long enough kind

1445
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 5: of situation they it. I think it actually happened pretty quick, right,

1446
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 5: So Brian Coberger, if you're not familiar, Brian Coburger is

1447
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:03,600
Speaker 5: in prison serving multiple life sentences for the murders of

1448
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 5: Idaho students Idaho University. I'm sorry, students Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan,

1449
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 5: Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. They were murdered by Brian

1450
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 5: Coberger in November of twenty twenty two. They were stabbed

1451
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 5: to death in their home while they slept. And you know,

1452
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 5: he's a creep of all creeps. He did plead guilty

1453
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 5: to those crimes, and he is serving he's serving many

1454
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 5: many life sentences, and he's now basically saying that he's

1455
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 5: going to harm himself is what we're doing. He's you know,

1456
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 5: he where do I begin with this guy? He It's

1457
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 5: like where do you start with him? The family, of course,

1458
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 5: they filed this lawsuit and the family has initiated all

1459
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 5: this legal you know, work against him, and I'm sorry

1460
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 5: against the Washington State University between August and November of

1461
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:08,520
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two about coworker's behavior, including all those stalking

1462
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 5: reports and how he was like hanging over people and

1463
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 5: like grooming. You know, security had to start walking students

1464
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 5: to cars because of him.

1465
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,639
Speaker 4: So basically also have a collection of some going back

1466
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 4: in his history, of some IDs of women who he encountered.

1467
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 5: That in Pennsylvania when they served a search warrant on

1468
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 5: his parents' home, the Pennsylvania police found in his room

1469
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,720
Speaker 5: in a box in a glove. In that box there

1470
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 5: were two female IDs and at the time nobody knew

1471
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:51,560
Speaker 5: who those ideas belonged to, but they belonged to coworkers

1472
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 5: of his at when he was a security guard at

1473
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 5: the local school. So he apparently was stealing IDs from

1474
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 5: women in and hoarding them in a weird box and

1475
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 5: a glove. Wow, So listen, he's weird. But yeah, he's

1476
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 5: serving for life sentences and he's reportedly fixated on a

1477
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 5: bunch of new grievances behind bars right now. It's the

1478
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 5: type of bananas he's being served. Oh boy, I mean,

1479
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 5: you know, here's the thing I think he needs to

1480
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,600
Speaker 5: control everything, right, and if it's out of his control,

1481
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 5: he just can't stand it. And he's in prison.

1482
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 4: Well what a honestly that would be, like, you know,

1483
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 4: literally helps ridiculous because it's the opposite.

1484
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 5: You control nothing.

1485
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 4: You don't control when you sleep, when you eat, when

1486
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 4: you shower, when you walk outside. So if if his

1487
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 4: own prison and hell could have been crafted, this is

1488
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 4: it sounds like he's where he needs to be.

1489
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 5: This is it, you know, and you know because of

1490
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 5: this Washington State University lawsuit the reason it's being done.

1491
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 5: We learned a lot about Brian Coberger, like how he

1492
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 5: acted when he was in like a position of authority, right,

1493
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,480
Speaker 5: he was very controlling. He wanted to control the conversations,

1494
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 5: he wanted to control the movement of specifically women, you know,

1495
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:09,959
Speaker 5: he would block them in. So he's a very controlling

1496
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 5: guy when he has the ability to be controlling, and

1497
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 5: in prison he don't have the ability. So not only

1498
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,879
Speaker 5: is he complaining about these bananas, but he's also threatening

1499
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:24,799
Speaker 5: self harm. Okay, So Chris McDonough, he's the retired homicide

1500
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:27,759
Speaker 5: detective and he's you know, the cold case funtation director.

1501
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 5: He told several news outlets including Court, TVN News Nation

1502
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 5: that coburgers, I'm sorry Coburger's demand to be removed from

1503
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 5: the J Block. He wants to be removed from the

1504
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 5: J Block to play somewhere else, and that this demand

1505
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 5: is due to his relationship with the inmates in that block.

1506
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 5: And I'm going to quote here. The prisoners are still

1507
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 5: relentlessly harassing him to the point now where he has

1508
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 5: written staff messages saying that if they don't move him

1509
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 5: out of J Block, he is going to harm himself.

1510
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 5: McDonough said he wants out of that J block real

1511
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:03,799
Speaker 5: bad because other inmates are taunting him. Now Brian Coberger

1512
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 5: has turned that into a foundation to use vague threats

1513
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 5: about harming himself in an attempt to get out of

1514
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 5: the situation in J Block. So he wants out of

1515
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 5: the block. But here's the thing. If he goes to

1516
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 5: the S Block, I don't know whatever they're gonna do.

1517
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 9: What they're doing, so yeah, and not.

1518
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 5: Only are they gonna do it because he's like a

1519
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 5: creepy killer, they're going to do it because he's like

1520
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:24,799
Speaker 5: a baby.

1521
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 2: Right, But I like have changed my thoughts on this,

1522
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 2: Like you convinced me that he should have some peace

1523
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 2: and he should be No, I didn't tell a prison,

1524
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,639
Speaker 2: and he should have his vegan meals. And that's how

1525
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 2: we decide what the world is going to look like,

1526
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 2: and that's how we treat our prisoners. Like you got

1527
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 2: me on board with that, So and I understand by

1528
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 2: the complains. I'm like, well, maybe maybe he maybe.

1529
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 5: That's normal for a prison though, right, it's normal for

1530
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 5: a prison to be harassed by other.

1531
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 2: Inmates, right, I mean process in a way. No, but

1532
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 2: he's he's totally detected. He's he's in a cell twenty

1533
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 2: three hours a day. They're just taunting him verbally. He's

1534
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 2: completely safe, right, Like they're talking through the events and yeah,

1535
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:08,640
Speaker 2: they all night, so he's not able to sleep and

1536
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 2: he does.

1537
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 9: Prisoners probably have to deal with the same thing.

1538
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 4: So of course, of course that's also at least where

1539
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 4: my line. Everyone's line is so different and arbitrary, first

1540
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 4: of all, but my line is, again that is the

1541
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 4: other people who are convicted. It's not the prison itself

1542
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 4: providing harassment. It's not a state sanctioned harassment. It's listen,

1543
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 4: here's who you live with now, tough.

1544
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 7: And what do you do if every prisoner now says,

1545
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 7: I don't like this and I don't like that.

1546
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:38,639
Speaker 5: Like a right exactly.

1547
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 2: But what about just going on Devil's advocate here in

1548
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 2: the land. I've never been defending Brian Coberger before, but

1549
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,679
Speaker 2: here we are. I'm a change of allved woman.

1550
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,440
Speaker 5: I just think that possible.

1551
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 2: Is it possible though, that he suffers from some level

1552
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 2: of autism and has oct and as a result, like

1553
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 2: there are certain things that are are more crazy making,

1554
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 2: and I mean that quite literally for him and his

1555
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: condition than they would be for a regular person. So

1556
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,799
Speaker 2: having sleep habits that are maybe out of line, hearing

1557
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 2: taunting through the walls twenty four to seven, which is

1558
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 2: disrupting his sleep, not having his food arrive at a

1559
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 2: certain time, you know, given he has, you know, allegedly

1560
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 2: these you know, things like OCD and autism, is that

1561
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 2: something that needs to be taken into consideration, out of

1562
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 2: out of.

1563
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 5: Humanity in that world. Yeah, I think I think that's

1564
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,839
Speaker 5: probably all true what you said, like with the autism

1565
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 5: and the OCD and the sensory issues that he's going

1566
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 5: to experience from that. But where are they going to

1567
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 5: put him that he doesn't have those things?

1568
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:43,799
Speaker 2: That's a fair question.

1569
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I don't want to have too cushia prison life, right,

1570
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 7: I'm still angry, I mean.

1571
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 2: Of course, right, No, I know, it's like, you know,

1572
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 2: and at the same time, this is a guy that's

1573
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 2: probably loved by somebody. They don't want him to be dead,

1574
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 2: you know, and at the you know, now the victims

1575
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 2: family may have a different opinion of that, of course,

1576
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 2: And I'm not injecting myself into this conversation one way

1577
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 2: or the other. But you know, I was really pouncing

1578
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 2: on it at one point about the meals, and like

1579
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: I feel like I learned, you know, just either through

1580
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 2: you body and listeners about you know, there is you know,

1581
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 2: certain people do have things mentally speaking that make this

1582
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 2: even harder. I don't know, I don't know the answer.

1583
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,479
Speaker 7: You're right, it's it's making me look at it in

1584
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 7: a different way.

1585
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:31,799
Speaker 9: I mean, I'm not saying I don't want.

1586
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 7: To want to throw them into a Venezuelan prison or

1587
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 7: something crazy and suffer, but like.

1588
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 2: I threw the end is way worse.

1589
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 5: I think too is okay, but that's what I mean.

1590
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 7: I also feel like he's, you know, he's done something

1591
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,759
Speaker 7: horrific and I'm I'm fortunately you don't like the bananas

1592
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 7: that they're serving you. Oh well, I'm sure other prison

1593
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,799
Speaker 7: inmates don't particularly care for the meals that they're being served.

1594
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 9: Right, Well, if it's.

1595
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 7: Not analogy related issue, maybe I can stand by that.

1596
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 9: The noise factor, I don't know that one too.

1597
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 4: So I was just poking around as we're engaged in this,

1598
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 4: uh conversation and in Pennsylvania. So there actually are some

1599
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 4: prisons and correctional facilities that are developing neurodiversity wings. Pennsylvania

1600
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 4: is one and has century rooms and specific support for

1601
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 4: intellectual development.

1602
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 5: Psvania is definitely not Idaho. That's correct and kay, But

1603
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 5: you know, I also think that I would have I don't.

1604
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1605
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 4: I looked at this one second ago. Imagine security levels

1606
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 4: are as close to death row as you could be.

1607
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:48,799
Speaker 5: He is on Chad day Bell. Yeah, he's a stepping

1608
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 5: away from death on death row. He is, like I

1609
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:56,880
Speaker 5: think he shares a wall with Chad Daybell him all

1610
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 5: day Yea. I was going to say, I I am.

1611
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: Brand I don't think he'll laugh, but talk about a

1612
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 2: cell block.

1613
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:06,680
Speaker 5: Letters from Chad. Yeah, I need to get back to that.

1614
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 2: Oh, we need to get back to that is right,

1615
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 2: that guy.

1616
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:12,720
Speaker 5: But since entering you know, the prison, the convicticuler of

1617
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:17,679
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger, he's filed the steady stream of complaints, naming them.

1618
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 5: You know. Many of them are very minor, but it's

1619
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 5: about everything from the noise, to cell conditions to interactions

1620
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 5: with all the other inmates. A lot of experts are

1621
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 5: saying that the you know, he often uses these hyper

1622
01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 5: specific grievances as an attempt to assert control in an

1623
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:37,479
Speaker 5: environment where he has none, And in this latest example,

1624
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:41,720
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger is reportedly taking issues with the type of

1625
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 5: bananas he's being served, insisting they don't meet his standards.

1626
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 5: Chris McDonough, the retired detective, quoted in the media he

1627
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 5: said that they're not the kind of bananas he likes.

1628
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 5: The banana the banana complaint. Listen, I feel so silly

1629
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 5: talking about this, but the banana complaint continues a pattern

1630
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 5: of this food related nitpicks from the convicted killer Brian Coburger,

1631
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 5: which prison officials say have little merit. The trivial nature

1632
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 5: of the complaint stands in contrast the severity of the

1633
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:14,720
Speaker 5: crimes that he committed. And you know, as experts are

1634
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 5: saying that it's often linked to attention seeking behavior behind bars. Now,

1635
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 5: he does have this this eating disorder, this arphid, right,

1636
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 5: he definitely has been he's been diagnosed with that. It's

1637
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 5: nothing you can really kind of make up. And he

1638
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 5: kind of has like this irrational fear of choking, and like,

1639
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 5: you know, so he can only have certain kinds of foods.

1640
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 5: So I would imagine in his mind, you know, the

1641
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 5: kind of bananas that he can eat are very specific.

1642
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:46,839
Speaker 5: I'm guessing I'm guessing that texture.

1643
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1644
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,680
Speaker 2: So interesting, It's just so interesting. Like this is a

1645
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 2: person who wanted to be a police officer, who wanted

1646
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 2: to dedicate their lives, his life to law enforcement and

1647
01:30:57,640 --> 01:30:58,839
Speaker 2: keeping the world safe.

1648
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 5: And like this is where I think he was doing

1649
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 5: all that as a mask, kind of like the Golden

1650
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 5: State killer did, or him searching like how do I appear.

1651
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 4: To be a human or But I want to add

1652
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 4: one other thing that the detective you are quoting said, Uh,

1653
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:20,560
Speaker 4: he was a nobody until he murdered four people irrelevant

1654
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:23,600
Speaker 4: to the world, and now he's Brian Coberger who has

1655
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:26,679
Speaker 4: slaughtered for people. And because he didn't have to stand

1656
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 4: up in court, and tell the world how brutal these

1657
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:32,600
Speaker 4: crimes were. He holds the cards and he's trying to

1658
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 4: leverage that, and he says the things perverse. So yeah,

1659
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 4: I think he does feel because he never did have

1660
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 4: to allocue yea.

1661
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 5: And it is that is a controlling thing, right, because

1662
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 5: he holds the power. He knows how desperate, like especially

1663
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:52,599
Speaker 5: the Consolvst family, the you know Kaylee Gonsalass family. She's

1664
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 5: a victim in this crime and she has an enormous

1665
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:58,120
Speaker 5: family and they want to know what happened to their daughter.

1666
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,680
Speaker 5: I mean, all the families want to play. They want

1667
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 5: to they want to play, they buy every day.

1668
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 10: Yea.

1669
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:07,000
Speaker 2: Why there's so many unanswered questions because he's never had

1670
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 2: to actually stand up and face the music in a

1671
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 2: meaningful way.

1672
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:13,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I those answers too, to be honest, A lot

1673
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 5: of people do. I do too. But you know, at

1674
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 5: some point it's like, you know, you you have your

1675
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 5: closing ceremony on a case kind of situation, we had

1676
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 5: to kind of like file the spreadsheet away you and

1677
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 5: I've kind of done that with Idaho, and mentally, you know,

1678
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:31,640
Speaker 5: like okay, it's time to move on. Of course, you know,

1679
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 5: still be respectable to the victims and their families and whatnot.

1680
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 5: But time to move forward. But Brian Coworker keeps popping

1681
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,480
Speaker 5: up his stupid, ugly head and making all these little complaints.

1682
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 5: And you know, I don't know. I don't know. I

1683
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,719
Speaker 5: in one hand, as somebody who's also neurodiversion, I feel,

1684
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 5: you know, his pain. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah,

1685
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 5: but look at what you did. You kind of have

1686
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:55,920
Speaker 5: to be punished. Kind of.

1687
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you describe what his perfect hell is, right is

1688
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 2: ultimately what he's living right now, and I think that's

1689
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 2: well said. Ooh, complicated note to end on ladies. But

1690
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, I call it what a justice? You call

1691
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:10,840
Speaker 2: it what a justice? Fair enough?

1692
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 5: Fair enough?

1693
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:14,120
Speaker 2: I feel confused by it now. I feel all torn

1694
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,679
Speaker 2: about the prison system Vada. You got me all twisted,

1695
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,519
Speaker 2: the producers got me all sorry enough, so you know,

1696
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 2: but again they're not getting out, so we're rehabilitating to what.

1697
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:27,759
Speaker 5: I don't know. This is complicated stuff.

1698
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,439
Speaker 2: But Jared Farantino's going to be here tomorrow, so if

1699
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 2: you have any legal questions about any of these cases.

1700
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 2: We didn't even get to the David update, so we'll

1701
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:38,719
Speaker 2: get to that tomorrow for sure. Obviously we'll be following

1702
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 2: the Luigi man Gioni case as well, and Brian Walsh

1703
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 2: is going to be back at it. Thank you for

1704
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: spending your Tuesday night with us.

1705
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 5: We love you.

1706
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 2: Please be safe and we will catch you tomorrow