1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Ash Wednesday services break attendance records around the globe, and 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: some are praising a papal mass featuring female altar servers. 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: What does it mean while the cause of a controversial 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: Central American bishop is raising some serious questions. We'll get 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: into all of it on this Prayerful Posse. Welcome to 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: the Prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe to the show. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful way to support our work and totally free. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: Or visit Raymondroyo dot com if you'd like to contribute. 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Let's convene the Prayerful Posse. I'm joined by canon lawyer 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: and priest of the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: and of course editor in chief of the Catholic Thing 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: dot org, Robert Royal. Gents, thank you for being here. 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: On February fifteenth, Pope Leo celebrated his first parish visit. 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: This is typical for a pope, they go and visit 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: local Roman parishes. This one was on the Ostia coastline 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: in Rome, where he was assisted by female altar servers. Now, 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: this marked the first time in his pontificate that he 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: was served by altar girls during a public mass. Footage 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: showed the servers, with one now famously wearing Adida sneakers 20 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: participating in the procession. Of course, Father James Martin quickly 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: took to x to proclaim the use of female altar 22 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: service has proven controversial in some US dioceses and among 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: some bishops, but apparently not in the Diocese of Rome 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: or for its bishop now Bob. John Paul the Second 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: famously allowed altered girls back in the nineties, and they've 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: certainly been part of every parish mass, but the Vatican 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: has really kept this at bay. Nothing happens liturgically at 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: the Vatican or with the Pope by chance. What's the 29 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: message do you think being sent here? Or is there one? Well? 30 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: I think there is. It's not simply the fact that 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: there were. These are not girls either. They look like 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: they're in their late tea. 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're a big girl, grown girl. 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: And the thing that was striking to me, I don't 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: know if we've got an image up, but they're dressed 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: in what you can only call vestments. They're in these 37 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: these elaborate green vestments. Now, you know, I was an 38 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: altar boy. I'm sure all of us have been altar 39 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: boys in the past, and usually you're wearing white with 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: maybe black or red or something. And in that same picture, 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: behind the girls are some altered boys and they're in 42 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: sort of typical white you know, habits. So to me, 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: I don't know that this was intentional, but you would 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: have to think why put them into what almost looked 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: like vestments? And it raises that whole question is are 46 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: we now introducing women into not just this position of 47 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: being altered servers as we've been forced to call them 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: over the past few years, but there seems to be 49 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: almost a liturgical element in the way that they've been dressed. 50 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: So I'm a little I'm a little worried about. 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: This from yeah, father, your thoughts as a parish priest, 52 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: I mean, look, altar girls have been regular fixtures in 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: a lot of parishes, but it has been extremely non 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: existent in paper liturgies until Pope Francis and now Leo 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: your thoughts. 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: Yes, well, I'm not in favor of alter girls. I've 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: written about this in the past. Basically the story is 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 3: that alter boys were called they're called little clerics in 59 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: Italian because they were boys substituting for clerics. You know, 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: Altar servers are acolytes, and acolyte was a minor order, 61 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: and the minor orders were not established in most parishes, 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: so to replace them, they took young boys and even 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: teenagers to serve, and even adult males. But they were 64 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: always male because acolytes were men. And the reason is 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: service at the altar was sort of an extension of 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 3: what the priest was doing. So the priests is male, 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: therefore all those who assist him are male. Now this 68 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: all changed after Vatican two. Popeoul the six allowed women lectors, yes, 69 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 3: and then John Paul the Second allowed women to serve 70 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: at the altars. So while they did not do this 71 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: as regular custom at the Vatican, I think it'd be 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 3: very exceptional to have female altar serve as the Vatican, 73 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 3: this was actually done in the Suburbican diocese of Ostia, 74 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: So it was another bishop that was there. That's his diocese. 75 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 3: That's what they do there. It's just it's the way 76 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: it is there. It's the way it is in most places. 77 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 3: It's sad to say I'm not in favor of altar 78 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: girls at all. I think it disrupts liturgical harmony that 79 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: we're striving for. 80 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 81 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: Well, and as Bob mentioned, when you see it doesn't 82 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: matter whether it was a local parish visitor in Saint 83 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica. The image is there of the pope flanked 84 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: by these two young ladies dressed in what doesn't look 85 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: like the black and white you know vestment of an 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: altar boy. 87 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 3: Well, they do that in Europe, they use different outfits. 88 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 3: I've had this have scene over time, so I'm wasn't 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 3: so surprised about that. But you know, when Pope Joppo 90 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 3: the second allows altar girls and every going to show 91 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 3: up at the side of the Pope. 92 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: I want to move on to a story that's frankly, 93 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: really disturbing, hard to believe. Actually, Pope Leo the fourteenth 94 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: has apparently approved the cause of sainthood for a man 95 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: named Alejandro Labaca. He is a capution bishop in Ecuador 96 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: who was murdered by the indigenous people in the Amazon 97 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven. A martyr, the promoters of his 98 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: cause say, but here's the catch. In Labaca's own autobiographical writings, 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: he describes allowing these indigenous youth to touch his private parts. 100 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: He describes lying naked in a bed under a mosquito 101 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: net with a young man who had previously made and 102 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm quoting him directly provocative homosexual attempts end quote. Now 103 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: some are calling this inculturation. Leo declared him, I guess 104 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: venerable in May of twenty twenty five, at the dawn 105 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: of his pontificate. So my question is, Father, from your 106 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: perspective as a canon lawyer, what on earth or why 107 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: would the Dicast for the Cause of Saints have ignored 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: or overlooked something so flake in this man's records. 109 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: I certainly hope they overlooked it. 110 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: I can't believe they would know about this and then 111 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 3: yet propose this man for eventual canonization. Now that this 112 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: stuff has become forward, it's time for this dossier, as 113 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: we say, to be archived, and the expression the US 114 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: in the Vatican that is put into a drifile draw 115 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,559 Speaker 3: never seen again. This man went to if you visit 116 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 3: a tribe that practiced nudism, and he himself did the 117 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 3: same thing when he was there. And then, as he 118 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: himself described, this also involved sexual activity in the sense of, 119 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: you know, naked, lying in bed with a boy and 120 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: having somebody touching your private parts. If there was ever 121 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,559 Speaker 3: a case that could easily be closed in about one minute. 122 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: It's this one. 123 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 3: There should go no further, there should be no more 124 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: consideration of this candidacy, Bob. 125 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: At what stage in this process would these autobiographical writings 126 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: have been reviewed? I mean, I know, when you assemble 127 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: a cause that was part of the Sheme cause we 128 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: talked about last week, you have to collect everything they've 129 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: written privately published the whole thing, and that's part of 130 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: the acts, and those boxes go to the congregation. Why 131 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't they have flagged this before declaring this individual venerable 132 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: and God forbid passing it on to the pope. Yeah. 133 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: Now, I think it is worth saying that it doesn't 134 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: say from the documentation that we've heard about that he 135 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: actually engaged in any of these activities, but he came 136 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: up right to the edge of perdition with even what 137 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: we know right now, and it beggars belief that they 138 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: did not know about this. It just seems to me 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: that someone wanted to push the story that he was 140 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: a martyr because he was killed by this very tribe 141 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: that was trying to evangelize. Now, there is a whole 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: history in missionary work of people taking on trying to 143 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: identify within the cultures that they're trying to evangelize. Elements 144 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: that can be used that are, you know, roughly analogous 145 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: to this, acromans are something whatever. But fooling around with 146 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: your private parts. I don't think that it's very easy 147 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: to move from that as an evangelical tool. That you're 148 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: living along with these people and you're going in that direction. 149 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously what you wouldn't want to be doing 150 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: is moving them in a direction of greater chastity, of 151 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: greater humility, et cetera. It just it seems to be 152 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: a very bad judgment. And why allow I mean, look, 153 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: we want to respect the fact that the man was 154 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: a evangelizer and was killed by the tribe, but why 155 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: allow that to outweigh everything else. It just sends the 156 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: wrong message to the church at this point in our history. 157 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: And as I mentioned earlier, some are already calling this inculturation. 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: The Labaca himself wrote that he lived as the Haweranni, 159 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: that's the tribe. He lived as they lived in order 160 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: to reach them, and that they had quote extraordinary sexual 161 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: maturity end quote, and lived a morality as in paradise 162 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,239 Speaker 1: before sin father. How does that comport with Catholic moral theology, 163 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: and and and why do it at a time when 164 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: you're paying billions of dollars in sexual abuse violations all 165 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: across the church. 166 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I completely disagree with that bishop's evaluation of 167 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: what this was. This was a tribe sad to say that, 168 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 3: in the darkness of paganism was involved in sexual immorality. 169 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: And you should not be doing that. A teenage boys 170 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 3: should not be lying in bed with men. This is ridiculous, 171 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 3: naked and all the rest. No, this is naievte combined 172 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 3: with you know, kind of a false notion of how 173 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: you bring the Gospel to people. You draw people to 174 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 3: the light, you don't plunge into their darkness. 175 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 4: That's what he was doing. 176 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: It's no, this was profoundly mistaken approach. And we can 177 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: see that this cause has no validity. 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That short route liturgically marks the 201 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: beginning of Lent, and in Leo's Lenten message he encouraged 202 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: the faithful to quote abstain from harsh words and rash judgments. 203 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: Here's the fuller quote. Let us begin by disarming our language, 204 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: avoiding harsh words, rash judgment, refraining from slander and speaking 205 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: ill of those who are not present and cannot defend themselves. Instead, 206 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: let us strive to measure our words and cultivate kindness 207 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: and respect in our families, among our friends, at work, 208 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: on social media, in political debates, in the media, and 209 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: in Christian communities. Bob, is there a tension between that 210 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: call for restraint, which I really like, and the way 211 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: that some traditional Catholics have been treated by Rome in 212 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: recent days. 213 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just telling someone the other day about 214 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: if we remember, way back at the beginning of Francis's papacy, 215 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: he was always talking about mercy, mercy, whatnot, And all 216 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: of a sudden one day a bunch of posters showed 217 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: up around Rome in the old Roman dialogue saying, Hey, Francis, 218 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 2: where's the mercy? Because he was such a tough talker 219 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 2: at the time. Now, I agree with you entirely. I'm 220 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: glad that he said that because an awful lot of 221 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: people have gotten into the habit of just thinking that 222 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: they can say anything whatever on social media. There is 223 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: no place in the world where we should not be 224 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: practicing Christian charity. We should tell the truth, of course, 225 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: when there's truth that needs to be told. But to 226 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 2: tell the truth is one thing to tell people that 227 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: they can just go to hell, or they can you know, 228 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: you like to murder them. I mean, there's there's very 229 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: nasty stuff that's out there that people have to be 230 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: reminded is not the way human beings should be reacting 231 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: to one another. So, look, there is a tension there, 232 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: you know, with some things that we've seen in the past. 233 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: I just want to caution that we don't sometimes the 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: truth is harsh, we don't have to make it harsher 235 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: than it has to be right. Sometimes the truth is 236 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: something that we have to say out of love for 237 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 2: the very people that we're talking to. But that does 238 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: not mean abusing them. It does not mean cutting down 239 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: their characters. You respond to the error and you try 240 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: to lead people towards the light. That is what the 241 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: event The Gospel of Jesus tries to do. 242 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, this year, I've kind of adopted Mother Angelica 243 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: had a great line. She said, you know, you don't 244 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: you all you don't have to give up things like, 245 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, sweets or drinking or little things like that. 246 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: Adapt a new habit, make that abstain from your temper, 247 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: abstain from you know, yelling at people. And that's sometimes harder, 248 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: but that can be a habit that you're not only 249 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: practice in Lent, but it continues on. So I think 250 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: the Pope's practical. The practical side of this suggestion is 251 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: valid and wonderful, I think. And speaking of Lent, Father, 252 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: the bishops of the Philippines are calling for peace and 253 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,479 Speaker 1: what they're framing as interfaith solidarity. As Lent and Ramadan 254 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: converge on the calendar this year, they're starting on the 255 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: same day, on Wednesday, last Wednesday, and now they're speaking 256 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: of both seasons almost as if they're parallel spiritual journeys 257 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: towards the same destination, the same God Father. Does that wash. 258 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: Well, you know, we have to go back to the 259 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: origins of Islam that Mohammad started Islam in the context 260 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: of his knowledge of Christianity, paganism and Judaism, and fasting 261 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: times were present in the Old Testament and Judaism, and 262 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 3: then our Divine Savior himself faster for forty days in 263 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: the desert, and then the Church adopted that as the 264 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: practice for Lenten fasting for believers, you know, a preparation 265 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 3: for Easters. So there's a common orientation toward penance and 266 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: self denial. But of course Lent is bent on the 267 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: based on forty days Christ spent in the desert. Islam 268 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: doesn't recognize that to be the reference point at all. 269 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: So they are two different experiences. Because of course, fasting 270 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: for a Christian is to be conformed to Christ. That's 271 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 3: not why Islamic believers follow the Ramadan fast. 272 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: Bob, is there a danger in equating the march toward 273 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: the passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, all of 274 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: which Islam rejects, And I mean, are they doing anyone 275 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: favors by kind of trying to combine these two very 276 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: separate practices and belief systems. 277 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: Well, look, we've talked about this before, and it's fine 278 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: to want to live and let live in societies where 279 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: you're pluralistic religious societies, and it's just simply a fact 280 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: that it's better for people to get along than to 281 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 2: be constantly clashing with one another. But the danger here 282 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: is one that goes all the way back to the council. 283 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: When the councils start to talk about humanism, the voices 284 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: were raised that they were worried that what was coming 285 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: out of what they feared was coming out of the 286 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: document was what sometimes it's called indifferentism, that you know, 287 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: everybody is on a pathway to God, whatever path they 288 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: happen to be on, or universalism that everyone is going 289 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: to get there eventually because God calls everybody. So look, 290 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: I don't know the circumstances and Philippines all that. Well, 291 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: maybe it helps right by the way, there's a lot 292 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: of Muslim violence against Christians and the Philippines, and we 293 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: ought to just register that for the people who are 294 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: listening or watching tonight. But at the same time, I 295 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 2: would be cautious for theological reasons because we don't want 296 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 2: to see, I mean, we don't need any further suggestions 297 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: in the modern world that everybody is the same. Christianity 298 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: stakes out an absolute claim, and it's a scandal. It's 299 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 2: sometimes been described as a scandal of particularity that only 300 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: through Jesus Christ can we come to God. No man 301 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: comes to the Father except through me. Jesus says, Now, 302 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 2: we don't have to say that in an ugly way. 303 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: We don't have to say that in a way that 304 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: puts people off. But that's the truth of things. Now, 305 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 2: people may slowly begin to arrive at that vision. There 306 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: is something called the baptism, a desire where people would 307 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: like to follow what the truth is. But I think 308 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: that the Church needs to be very careful that we 309 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: don't encourage this idea that basically everybody, you know, they're 310 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: good people in every religion, and so it doesn't matter 311 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: what religion you are. 312 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it matters. Pope Leo confirmed thirty new members of 313 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: the Dicastre for Bishops, including Cardinals Blaze Supitch of Chicago 314 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: and Joseph Tobin of Newark. Father, what does adding two 315 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: of the most progressive American prelates to the body which 316 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: recommends future bishops tell us about the next generation of 317 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: the American episcopate and what it might look like. 318 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 3: Well, they were already there, Raymond. You know, these are 319 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: the people who were put in by Poe Francis, and 320 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: so Leo basically confirmed everybody who was present from the 321 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 3: Francis era, so it's more or less a move of continuity. 322 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 3: He added a nun sister bram Billa, so it's you know, 323 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 3: that was the only change he made to the list. 324 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 3: I was a little surprised because this is an opportunity 325 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: in naming this to replace some people. There was one 326 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: cardinal who was named who's seventy nine years old, so 327 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: he's only going to got one more year before he 328 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: has to retire, and a couple of others were older. 329 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so a little surprising. 330 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: I'm going to guess that Leo is still taking time 331 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: to figure out who the people are that he would 332 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: like to assist him in the direction of the pontificate. 333 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: So in the meantime, he's just continuing with the arrangements 334 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 3: that Francis had put in place. 335 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: Bob sister Simona Brambila, who father just mentioned. She's also 336 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: been appointed as the prefect for the Dicastro for the 337 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: Institutes of Consecrated Life, and as prefect she has authority 338 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: over cardinals. I mean that has never happened in the 339 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: church before. Your thoughts on this. 340 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about this before too. This is of 341 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: course a big change, and there have been some attempts 342 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: made by Cardinal Willette among others, to try to describe 343 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 2: what is the theological justification rationale for this. 344 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: Now. 345 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: Some people claim that the Pope is the supreme legislator 346 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 2: in the church and you can just designate whoever he wants. 347 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 2: Others have claimed that sometimes the spirit shows us leadership, 348 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: that the Pope w recognized by the person he puts 349 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: in charge of something. I don't know what's going on 350 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: exactly with these particular appointments, but it requires some fancy 351 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: theological footwork to see how you put a woman like this, 352 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: who maybe I don't know her, she may be quite 353 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: competent in a number of ways, but put her in 354 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 2: authority over the authorities in the church other than the 355 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: Pope himself. So, look, something is going on here that 356 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: has to be I think studied more carefully. And if 357 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: there is going to be this kind of this kind 358 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: of move including by the way there's been there's been 359 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: talk about laypeople being appointed as to positions like this, 360 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: not even religious. If that's going to be the case, 361 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 2: I think we need to know why this is why 362 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: certain people are being chosen. Is it the case that 363 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: these are the best people? You know, I'm sorry to 364 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: say this, but when we have this kind of affirmative 365 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: action mentality in the politics as well as in the church, 366 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 2: you look at appoint like that and you say, really, 367 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: there was no prelate that was a better choice than 368 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: a woman. Is this just trying to earn points with 369 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: certain people in political in certain political quarters. To me, 370 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: it's it's a situation that is up in the air 371 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: and that really needs to come down to earth and 372 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: be thought through in a much more concrete. 373 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: Well, father is a canon lawyer. Is this a legitimate 374 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: development of doctrine? I mean, well, that is putting forward 375 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: the idea that if the pope sees a competent person, 376 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: he can basically give them jurisdiction over that particular part 377 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: of his ministry. 378 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: Is this an innovation, Well, it's an innovation without a basis. 379 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 3: In the sacramento theology of the episcopal the pope is 380 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: a bishop. Therefore he rules in the name of Christ 381 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 3: and with the power of the Christ is given to 382 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: the bishops, and in his case is the supreme authority. 383 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 4: The successor of Peter. 384 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 3: Ordination constitutes you priest profiting king in the church. Those 385 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 3: are the three monera we say in Latin, the three 386 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 3: officers or roles in the life of the church. It 387 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 3: essentially comes down to this. Governance in the church is 388 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 3: not assumed by those who want to exercise it. It's 389 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: given to those who receive sacred orders and then are 390 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 3: chosen by the ones who already have sacred orders. Why 391 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 3: is this important because the bishop is standing as the 392 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: vicar of Christ. You know, the vicar of Christ is 393 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: the Pope, but every bishop to a degree is also 394 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 3: a vicar of Christ in his diocese. In other words, 395 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 3: they're acting in the name of Christ. Christ's authority was 396 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: not conceded to him by the people, you know. It 397 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 3: was Christ's authority, his God's authority, given to the incarnate 398 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: son of God. So the hierarchy rules us, not because 399 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 3: we agree to that arrangement, but because God put it 400 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 3: in place. So what Pope Francis said was he can 401 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: delegate his authority to anybody, to allay person or none, 402 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: a deacon, a priest, another bishop. And that's where we 403 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 3: have to draw the line. You can exercise the role 404 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 3: of a shepherd if you're not ordained as a shepherd. 405 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 3: And because the bishops in the Roman Curia were acting 406 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: with papal authority, but they would exercise it because they 407 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: themselves shared with the Pope that sacred character being bishops. 408 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 3: So very complicated move by Pope Francis, which has to 409 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 3: be solved, because, believe. 410 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 4: Me, is not. 411 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 3: If this is left in place, then we have an 412 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: arrangement where you have people equal to bishops without being ordained. 413 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 3: And that's what this nun is being placed to do. 414 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: She can command a bishop with the authority of the 415 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: Pope to do something. She has no right to do 416 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 3: that because she's a layperson. 417 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 4: It's just not right. 418 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, this is something we're gonna have to look 419 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: at much more. In the days they had and I 420 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: remember when it first happened. You know, people didn't realize 421 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: the depth of this or the implications. Maybe now they are. 422 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: Cardinal Timothy Radcliffe's spiritual director of the Synod. He's now 423 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: a cardinal himself, appointed by Pope Francis. He's praising Pope 424 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: Leo for quote advancing sinidality in an exciting way while 425 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: celebrating what he called Pope Francis's passionate commitment to changing things. Now, Bob, 426 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: when a cardinal of the church talks about the previous 427 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: pontiff's legacy passionate, you know, passion for changing things. Is 428 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: changing things the be all and end all of the 429 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: church's ministry or is this lobbying? Is this really lobbying 430 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: to try to move Pope Leo in a certain direction. 431 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly sounds like that. I mean, Cardinal Moratcliffe 432 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 2: has some very heterodox views that we've gone over in 433 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: the past, and we don't need to be labor here. 434 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: But look, change is good. When it's good change that 435 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: the Church is a living it's the living body of 436 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: Christ on earth. As Cardinal Lewman said, there is our 437 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: legitimate developments with in the church that show that the 438 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: Church is alive, living things change and they grow, and 439 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: that is a natural thing. But there are changes, which 440 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: he also called corruptions, and that means departures from what 441 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: has always been the root of what the church is. 442 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: So when we hear someone like Cardinal Radcliffe talking positively 443 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: about homosexuality, for example, I mean, it isn't hard to 444 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: see that there is a departure from what has been 445 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: the living trunk of the Church for the last two 446 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: thousand years. So look, you can tell you as a 447 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: kind of a raw rah, Yeah, he's doing this in 448 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: an exciting way, Okay, But I actually don't see that 449 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 2: as the character of Leo. See, Leo is a much 450 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 2: more thoughtful, methodical kind of person approaching things. He may 451 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: do some things that surprise us in a bad way, 452 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: he may do some things that surprised us in a 453 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: good way, but this kind of I don't think anybody 454 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: is energized by the idea of sinidelity. And actually what 455 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: I hear from some people in Rome is that Leo 456 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: continues to use the term but he isn't really Yeah, 457 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: you know, it isn't like the biggest thing that he's 458 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 2: thinking about when he wakes up before breakfast every morning. 459 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: The Father Vatican's Secretary of State, Pietro Paoline has confirmed 460 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: that the Holy See will not participate in President Trump's 461 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: Board of Peace that was to oversee the rebuilding of Gaza. 462 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: Is that the right call, I mean, the Vatican and 463 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: the Church are traditionally all about peace and the promotion 464 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: of peace. Your thoughts on this, I realize a number 465 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: of America's allies also are not taking part in this 466 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: board of peace. 467 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 4: No, I think it's a very good decision. 468 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 3: I don't think the Holy See should be part of 469 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: any organization which is going to authorize the use of 470 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 3: military force. That is not the role of the Pontificate. 471 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 3: The Pope is a shepherd and pastor of souls. He 472 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 3: certainly wants to promote peace, and at times there is 473 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 3: just wars that have to be fought, and the Holy 474 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 3: See you can praise those who defend the innocent. But 475 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: the idea that the Pope and or his delegate, the 476 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: Cardinal Powerline, would be sitting there voting about, you know, 477 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 3: what to do with Gaza. Note, leave that to the 478 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 3: countries involved in the organizations that are going to assist 479 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: that border piece, because if any place needs a peace 480 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 3: it's Gaza. The Ukraine needs a border piece, by the way, 481 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it was a good decision. 482 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: Well, curiously, Bob Cardinal Powerline suggested that the UN should 483 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: be the appropriate forum for deciding what happens in Causa. 484 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I realized the Holy See is a permanent 485 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: observer to the UN. But the UN endorses and embraces 486 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: things that are at vast polar opposites from Church teaching 487 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: and belief and practice. 488 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I was going 489 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: to bring it up by myself because it just seems 490 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 2: to me that it's a I agree with Father that 491 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 2: I don't like the idea of the Vatican being involved 492 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,719 Speaker 2: in that peaceful but at the same time to expect 493 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: the U n to do anything about this, it really, 494 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: you know, it's one of the sad things about the world. 495 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 2: But these multilateral institutions like the UN just aren't effective 496 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: at doing much of anything. I mean, there is a 497 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: Security Council that you can turn to, but they're you know, 498 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: the members that the permanent members of the Security Council 499 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: are countries like China, Russia, the United States. They have 500 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: their own interests and so that is not going to 501 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: be a kind of an impartial force in the world. 502 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: The EU. I mean, I wouldn't turn to the EU, 503 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: which has many anti Catholic elements in it as well. 504 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe this peaceport isn't the best thing that 505 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 2: is out there. But to point, I think it's really 506 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: whistling past the graveyard to think that there are international 507 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: institutions that do have the authority. Maybe you'd want them 508 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: to have the authority. Maybe that's what they were originally 509 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: created to be able to do, but they have not 510 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: delivered on the promise. 511 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to move on to another. So another 512 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: place that hasn't delivered on the promise. The controversial Bishop 513 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: of Charlotte, North Carolina, Michael Martin. He issued a seven 514 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: minute video message to the parishes in his diocese on 515 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: February fifteenth, outlining his pastoral vision for the diocese. Now. 516 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: This after his decision to severely limit the celebration of 517 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: the traditional Latin Mass, banning it from parishes. It's all 518 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: relegated to one new installation somewhere, but it's not a parish. 519 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: In his video, he calls for renewed evangelization and the 520 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: formation of missionary disciples. 521 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 5: Watch for us, our parish is primarily the place where 522 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 5: we encounter the Family of God, and yet too often 523 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 5: we come to church looking to be served, rather than 524 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 5: to serve as. 525 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 6: Guests rather than hosts. More importantly, the parish cannot be 526 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 6: a place of serving God's family if our homes are 527 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 6: not the first and most important place where we live 528 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 6: as God's family. 529 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: Now, Father, Bishop Martin never directly addresses the Latin Mass 530 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: controversy here, But how can people encounter God's family in 531 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: the parish when he just tossed them out of their 532 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: parishes because of their traditional worship. 533 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: Well, this does pose a problem, and it's sort of 534 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: part of the subtext of what's going on here. I 535 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: think he's trying to re establish that he wants to 536 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 3: lead people in faith and in bringing Christ to others. 537 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 3: And I support that he's actually a realist in which 538 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 3: he says two thirds of Catholics have already decided that 539 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 3: they're not interesting because they don't go to church on Sundays. 540 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 4: How are we going to get to them? But let's 541 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 4: be blunt. One of the most. 542 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 3: Successful outreach efforts that was happening in his diocese was 543 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: traditional liturgy, both the Old Mass and the New Mass. 544 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: And he's shown hostility to those things. 545 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 4: I mean, how do you. 546 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 3: Tell people we get to treat well, we want to evangelize, 547 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: meaning bring the Gospel to people, bring the gospel me, 548 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 3: teaching them what Jesus said and did. Jesus said, this 549 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 3: is my body, and he refuses to allow you to 550 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 3: kneel to receive communion he's made that ruling in his diocese. 551 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: You can't put alter rails and kneelers for people to 552 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 3: receive community in. So you said, you's a bishop, You're 553 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 3: right about the need to bring people closer to Christ. 554 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 3: But there's a mistake here. You bring people closer to 555 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 3: Christ and say, kneel before your Lord and God, who 556 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 3: loves you so much that he died on the cross 557 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 3: for you and gives his own body and blood for 558 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 3: your nourishment, and you want to kneel down in gratitude. 559 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 3: You know this is you know, it's like it's like 560 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 3: in movies. You know, you come upon there's some great 561 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 3: aspiring scene and everybody falls to their knees and puts 562 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 3: their hands out. You know, they just don't stand there 563 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 3: and say, well, what's next. So you know, this is 564 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 3: why kneeling for communion is much more than simply a 565 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: ritual thing from the past. It's a living expression of faith. 566 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 3: And the bishop is hostile to it. That's a problem. 567 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, there is this disconnect, Bob, between the practice 568 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: and what's happened in that diocese and the words spoken here. 569 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: They are kind of at odds. And the question is 570 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: is Vishoon Martin trying to pick up the pieces here. 571 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 2: Well, I hope so, because there are a lot of 572 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: pieces that are lying around it at this point. You know, look, 573 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to be too critical. I don't know 574 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: that document very well, and I just heard the part 575 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 2: that you read out Raymond. Even in that part, it 576 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: seems to me that there's a false dichotomy. You too 577 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: often we come to the church wanting to be served. Well, 578 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: we do go to church in part because we want 579 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: to worship God, and we want a liturgy that inspires us, 580 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 2: that brings us closer to God. I mean, he's talking 581 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: as if, you know, Catholic should be out, you know, 582 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: kind of like banging tambourines out in the streets the 583 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: way certain evangelicals do well. And in fact, the church 584 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: is both. It is something that nourishes us within. And 585 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: let's face it right now, an awful lot of people 586 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: are hurting because of what the culture is like, and 587 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: they need a kind of a refuge from that existing 588 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: in the church. And it's from that being fed at 589 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 2: church that enables you to go out to be an evangelizer. 590 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: So it's not one or the other, it's both. But 591 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 2: I think you have to begin with drawing people in 592 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: and energizing them there in their worship. And we know 593 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: that there's more than one way that he seems to 594 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: He thought he was going to go down a sort 595 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: of a singular path, and I don't think it's working. 596 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: So now the people aren't buying it. So now we're 597 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: doing video addresses. We'll see if it works. The flap 598 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: over the appointment of a pro abortion professor at the 599 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: University of Notre Dame continues this week. At least nine 600 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: bishops are now on record nine opposing Notre Dame's appointment 601 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: of this pro abortion professor. Her name is Susan Austerman. 602 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: She's going to lead this lou Institute for Asian Studies, 603 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: and the committee that grants Notre Dame's Pro Life Award 604 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: is calling for the appointment to be rescinded. Meanwhile, in 605 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: Rome this week, and father, I want you to react 606 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: to this. The president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, 607 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: Monsignor Renzo Pegorarro, was asked by e WT and News 608 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: about the controversy. 609 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 7: He said this, we need a dialogue and how to 610 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 7: understand with the university and the academic people how to 611 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 7: understand and to manage some questions. So it is a 612 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 7: big challenge, and we try to see how to maintain 613 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 7: a debate about it and which wait to stress more 614 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 7: the ethical and some social aspect, not the immediately only 615 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 7: the legal aspect of the problem. 616 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: Father the Man Senior never addressed the issue of why 617 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: Notre Dame would even consider appointing this professor who said 618 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: odds with their teaching and their mission. What does it 619 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: tell us though, that the head of a pro life 620 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: office of the Vatican can't get this answer straight. 621 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 3: Well, he doesn't want to give the answer because he 622 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,959 Speaker 3: answers another question that wasn't asked, And then he got 623 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 3: into a discussion of all kinds of ways in which 624 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 3: people can meet together and discuss what is of interest 625 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 3: to them individually. That's not the question. The question is 626 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 3: should someone who thinks killing unborn children is not only 627 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 3: a right, but it's something that has to be supported 628 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 3: by the government and made absolutely protected in law, is 629 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 3: that the person that a Catholic university should place at 630 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 3: the head of its Asian studies institute. He wouldn't answer 631 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 3: the question, this is so how bad things have gotten? 632 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 3: The Pontific Academy for Life was gutted under Poet Francis. 633 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 3: You used to have to take an oath to uphold 634 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 3: the dignity of human life, get and to be against abortion. 635 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 3: Po Francis abolished that. You know he put in thet 636 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 3: They put in a different frisproach. They basically has to 637 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 3: become a discussion society for people on all sides of 638 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 3: the question. We don't need any of that. You want 639 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 3: a discussion about about abortion, go read the New York Times. 640 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 4: You'll hear the other side. The Catholic Church teaches God's truth. 641 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 3: I'm frustrated if they had appointed a racist who thought 642 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: that certain races that people were inferior to head that institute. 643 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 3: Would he have given an answer so that we've got 644 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 3: to discuss the complexities of how things happen in life. 645 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 3: No would have said, no, racis should head a Catholic 646 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 3: institution of education. 647 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: Bob, your thoughts on this. I mean, when the head 648 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: of the Pontifical Academy for Life can't get this right, 649 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: why have an Academy of Life at this point? 650 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it needs to be entirely reformed, and 651 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: I wish Popo Leo would take take the bull by 652 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: the horns for that. Look, I'm tempted to say, and 653 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 2: I don't mean to be even flip about this, that 654 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 2: that seemed to me to be a statement that had 655 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: come out of the Kamala Harris school of political rhetoric. 656 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,959 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, talk about word salads, it's all 657 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 2: over the place. That means absolutely nothing other than I'm 658 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 2: going to talk a bit in a way that sounds 659 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 2: like I'm saying something so that we don't have to 660 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 2: come down to actually look at the facts. 661 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 4: That are here. 662 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 2: Now, you can dialogue until you're blue in the face 663 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 2: with people who are pro abortion. And she is militantly 664 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 2: pro abortion, and she's going to be handling the study 665 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 2: committee at the University of Notre Dame that deals with 666 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 2: places like India and other places in the Asian subcontinent. 667 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 2: Well we know where that is going to head. I mean, 668 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: they can keep saying that she's a very accomplished professional 669 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: and she's competent in all sorts of ways, but you 670 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: know what, there are lots of others who are competent 671 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: in those same ways and also believe what the Church 672 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: believes and will not try to kill babies in foreign 673 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 2: countries because they belong to the cult of abortion. I 674 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 2: think it's a gross scandal. We've got bishops, we've got scholars, 675 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 2: we've got pro life activists in the country who are 676 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 2: telling Notre Dame don't do this, and Rome doesn't seem 677 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 2: to be able to add its voice to what to 678 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: tell the university to do what they should know they ought. 679 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: To be doing. I want to go out with a 680 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: ray of hope and goodness. We need it after these stories, gentlemen. 681 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: This week the French daily Le Figero is reporting that 682 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,439 Speaker 1: Ash Wednesday masses across France broke all records and there's 683 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: an unprecedented surge of French adults and teenagers seeking to 684 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: be baptized. France has been hemorrhaging Catholics for decades that 685 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: seems to be nearing an end. Father, what's happening there? 686 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: And is this the genuine beginning of something? Is it? 687 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: Do we need to be cautious before we call this 688 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: a revival. 689 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly a revival in the public sense that 690 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 3: people are going to church and people are noticing it. 691 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 3: So I mean statistically, when you have more people going 692 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 3: to church, that speaks for itself. Now, what are the 693 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 3: reasons this is happening. Well, the lively and vibrant sections 694 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 3: of French Catholicism are those that support orthodoxy, tradition and 695 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 3: spiritual life. It's not those who are, sad to say, 696 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 3: have dominated, which are very politicized left wing approach to Catholicism. 697 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 3: Since the Count's in France, France has a very vibrant, 698 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 3: small but vibrant movement of priests and religious and lay 699 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 3: people who love the Catholic faith, and they love the 700 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 3: Latin Mass, they love beauty and liturgy. I think that's 701 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 3: having an effect. 702 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 4: Now. 703 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 3: The secularization in France has been going on since the 704 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 3: French Revolution, is not a new story. But as Bob 705 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: said earlier, you know, people seek refuge from the destructive 706 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 3: way of life that secularists promote. You know, the Jeffrey 707 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 3: Epstein scandal has revealed to us anyone who's followed it, 708 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 3: the depths of depravity that go with the cult of 709 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 3: money and sex, and sad to say, that's a big 710 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 3: part of what European culture is promoting. Why are they 711 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 3: always talking about abortion and birth control because it enables 712 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 3: them to live hedonism. People tired of hedonism because they 713 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 3: realize it's self destructive and the faith is an answer 714 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,959 Speaker 3: to it. So, apart from God's grace, which of course 715 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 3: is the root of it all, France is a fertile 716 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 3: ground where people are saying, yes, let me go back 717 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 3: and say, why is every town named after a saint 718 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 3: in my country? Well, because this country is largely based 719 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 3: on the fact that the Catholic civilization made it what it. 720 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: Is, Father and Bob. In the US, we're seeing similar surges, 721 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: like I mean the Dominican parishes and New York. Father, 722 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: the young people are flooding into r CIA. Saint Patrick's Cathedral. 723 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: On Wednesday was the quadruple lines for ashes. I mean, 724 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: it was out the door. People who were there told me, Bob, 725 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: is this a reaction to the culture? 726 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, And I want to point out that 727 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 2: I think it's a specific type of reaction. I mean, 728 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 2: I don't want to take anything away from evangelicals who 729 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: are going out and trying to bring people to Christ. 730 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 2: But you know, it's like in all the old Devil movies. 731 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 2: I mean, what is the only thing strong enough to 732 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 2: carry out an exorcism? It's a priest who speaks a lot, 733 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 2: and so I think that one of the intuitions, and 734 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 2: it may be kind of even an intuition that people 735 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 2: aren't all that consciously aware of, but one of the 736 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: intuitions is when you've got a culture that is so 737 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 2: deeply immurred in pornography and self aggrandizement and whatnot, you 738 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: need a strong countermeasure. And you know, the kind of beige, 739 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 2: milk toasty Christianity that a lot of people practice for 740 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: many years, that's not strong enough. What is strong enough 741 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 2: is real Catholicism. And I think that in this country 742 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 2: and elsewhere. I remember that those twenty thousand kids who 743 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 2: walk from Paris to Notre Dame de chart back during 744 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 2: the summer and then had a Latin Mass at the end. 745 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 2: Twenty thousand. Yeah, to walk for three days, sixty miles 746 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: looks it may be the first drops of something that 747 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: is happening. And let's pray that it becomes a flood, 748 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 2: because that is what the world needs, and only the Church, 749 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 2: only the Roman Catholic Church in the West. 750 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: Is able to deliver it. And you see young men 751 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: all of these polls, when you look at the Barner research, 752 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: the Pew research, it's young men returning to church, going, 753 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: returning to the church, because I think they grew up 754 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: with nothing firm, and they're looking for guardrails, and they're 755 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: looking for something that's lasting and true to hitch their 756 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: lives and build their lives upon. And when you talk 757 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: to them, they'll tell you that and mention some of 758 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: the struggles you just mentioned. Pornography and you know, the 759 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: hedonistic lifestyle all around them. They know that's not the 760 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: path for them, and it's great that they're at least 761 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: responding in this way. So a happy note, we will 762 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: leave it there and grateful to y'all as always, And 763 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: if you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, 764 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or the 765 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande podcast wherever you get yours on the behalf 766 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray. Until the Posse rides again, 767 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: stay the course, follow the light. I'm raiming Arroyo. We'll 768 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: see you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership 769 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: with DP Studios and iHeart Podcasts, and it's available on 770 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. 771 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 3: Spokes consonants focused podcasts, focus contents 772 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 7: Focused, percast