WEBVTT - The Cleveland Torso Murders 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.000 Heart Radio. Hey, you're welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:17.040 There's Chuck. Jerry's out there somewhere with a magnifying glass 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.880 and toothpick. We don't know what toothpicks for, but this 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.439 is stuff you should not Yes, content warning episode, everybody. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.360 This is one of our I was about to stay rare. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.320 They're they're fairly rare, but one of our true crime 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.440 episodes that is very grizzly, gruesome, gruesome, but took place 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.199 in the nineteen thirties, so there's something about old and 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.800 gruesome that makes it a little more palatable for me. Totally. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.120 I don't know why, but you're absolutely right time, I 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:54.120 guess you know. Yeah, he heals all wounds to murders. Yes, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.560 it doesn't. Well, heals all wounds except for some of 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.600 the things that happened in the Torso murders, because you 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.960 can't come from that. It's pretty crazy. You you were 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.760 familiar with the Torso murders already, right, I had heard 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.280 of these, and the more I read about them, the 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.039 more I was shocked at that there wasn't a good 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.280 period movie about this. Yeah. Absolutely, so But if you 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.360 haven't heard the Torso Killer, that's fine, You're You're definitely 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.440 not alone. A lot of people haven't, which is kind 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.640 of surprising because these are they're unsolved murders. There were 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.000 a lot of them, and you know, they took place 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.040 in the background of a city that was like driven 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:35.120 into a frenzy by this ghastly serial murderer who was 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:40.680 who continued their murders despite this extraordinarily large, you know, 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.320 man hunt to try to find them, an unsuccessful man 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.600 hunt still to this day. Yeah, I mean, it has 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.160 all the makings of a good movie. Um, it's got 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.640 a and we'll we'll reveal who this person is. We'll 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.040 hang onto it for a second. But they had a 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.640 famous investigator. Oh sorry, yes, and he definitely was the 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:03.600 famous investigating Yeah you thought I meant who the murderer was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.760 you've got some false starts. You've got some um Coen 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:11.600 Brothers esque whimsy with with the dog discovery. I thought 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.560 you'd like that. Yeah, I did like that, And um, yeah, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:15.959 it has all the makings of a great movie in 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:22.079 a cool period setting, which was depression era nineteen thirties Cleveland, Ohia, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:28.080 which is almost indistinguishable from current day Cleveland. Come on, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.840 we love Hey man, I'm from Toledo. I can totally 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.920 backs Detroit. I was. That's my birthright. That is your birthright. Um. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.920 So let's go back to September of when a woman's 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.680 torso is washed up on the shore of Lake Erie. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.079 Her legs are amputated below the knee. There is no head, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.239 which is why I said torso. And it's a suspicious 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.800 way to find a body, a very suspicious way. She 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.600 was never identified. They called her the Lady of the Lake. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.200 And this was just sort of the beginnings. Nothing was 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.640 put together at this point because it would be two 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.600 years before any other murders took place, and that they 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.480 finally sort of put together that the Lady of the 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.799 Lake was perhaps Victim zero, uh, really victim one, but 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.240 they called her Victim zero of who would become known 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:25.560 as the Torso murderer or the mad Butcher of Kingsbury. Yes, um, 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.600 Kingsbury run. And like you said, it would be about 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.640 two years before they started to connect the dots. But 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.840 in that time between the time the Lady of the 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.640 Lake was found, um about a year past and then 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.160 all of a sudden, two more bodies were found, and 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.600 all of a sudden, because two bodies were found together, 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.040 this really started to capture people's attention to the lady 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:48.600 of the lake. It was a weird thing. It was 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.880 a terrible thing to find, but it was singular. This was, 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.840 you know, like by definition, not singular, finding two bodies 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.040 at once that were both dismembered. Um. And they were 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.920 found in the area of Kingsbury Run, which is where 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.280 the mad butcher take takes his name. That's right, Um. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.160 They were both men. In this case, they were uh, 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.640 they were castrated. They were also decapitated, which would become 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.440 sort of a signature. The decapitation and in any kind 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.840 of dismembering really would become the signature hallmark of this murderer. Uh. 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.839 And it's interesting in that victim, one of these two men, 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.520 was actually one of the only ones that they got 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.839 a fairly positive I d for Um actually got some 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.600 fingerprints and it matched a man named Edward Uh Andrewsi. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.920 And he was sort of a petty thief that had 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.960 you know, the police had brought in before. So he 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.240 was believed to be gay and this if he was, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:49.719 you know, which all accounts should say that he was. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.920 This was at a time when in the nineteen thirties, 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.719 certainly it was still illegal, and it was also listed 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.560 as a mental disorder in the to call not the 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:06.200 d m V, d U the d m V. The 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.599 d m V didn't look too highly on it either. No, 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.680 that's right. So he I think was one of only 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.400 two that was ever even positively identified of what would 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:23.560 end up being probably maybe twelve murders. Yes. Um. And again, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.320 these guys were found together, not together, like they were 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.800 like within, you know, a very short distance of one another, 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.599 so that they were found virtually at the same time. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.480 And whenever you find, you know, a body missing its head, 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.240 that that is attention grabbing. And when you find two 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.680 bodies both missing their heads, that really starts to get 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.240 the presses juices running. Um. And like we said, these 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.240 were found around Kingsbury Run, and Kingsbury Run is basically 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.200 like an old riverbed that cuts through Um. I believe 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.599 the west side of Cleveland. Uh No, I'm sorry that 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.200 I think the east side of Cleveland down to the 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.640 Coyahoga River, and it was basically like the place where 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.120 all of the oil companies and all of the heavy 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.640 industry along the river and along the lake would dump 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.200 all of their waste. The city put a sewer in there. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.360 It was just meant to be kind of like a 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:21.960 waste land, like a literal wasteland. Um. And it kind 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.360 of stayed that way until the depression hit. And by 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.920 the time the depression had things were so bad that 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.320 people were looking to to basically live wherever they could 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.599 for free, and they started taking up residents in Kingsbury Run. 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.000 So by the time the Kingsbury Run murders, the Tords, 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.560 the Torso murders started, Um, this was like a full fledged, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.640 full swing shanty town. Basically a Great Depression era Hoover town. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.400 It's what they call them, Yeah, exactly. Um. So it 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.240 was a Graham scene down there anyway. Uh, certainly the 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.479 fringes of society. Um. During the course of the investigation, 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.640 there were accusations of the press that they weren't working 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.680 as hard as they needed to because these were people 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.960 on the fringes of society and sort of forgotten about. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.640 And I think one of the other people identified. It 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.360 was a few months later in January nineteen thirty six, 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:16.600 when they found the body of Flow Palilo Florence Pollilo 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.720 was a waitress and bartender and sex worker who was 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.360 discovered once again dismembered, wrapped in newspaper and a couple 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.520 of bushel baskets, and then about a week and a 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.320 half later found other parts of her body. So she 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.760 was sort of found in in it's very grizzly, but 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:35.640 found in pieces over the course of a week and 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.080 a half in different places. Right, So, so far as 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.840 far as anybody can tell, we're up to three and 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.920 possibly four victims if you include the Lady of the Lake. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.880 But it wasn't until the following June, about six months 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:53.160 after flow Palilo was discovered, because again, remember these people 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.760 were they actually lived on the fringe of society. So 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.960 just like today, just like Robert picked in the pig 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.560 farmer from Vancouver, so many other serial killers um find 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.520 their victims um and like the just I guess, the 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.640 lowest stations of society because they're the most vulnerable, they 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.000 have the least protection, And that's kind of what was 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.960 going on. That's why it took so many victims for 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.880 the press to finally be like, Okay, there's something really 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.920 going on here. And finally in June, I believe of 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:27.160 ninety six, victim number four as far as canonical victims go, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.280 but possibly the fifth victim was discovered. Um, his head 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.320 was found first by two boys who are playing hookey 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:39.600 and fishing along the Coyahoga. No, I can't because they 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.880 found like a bald up pair of trousers and I 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.440 guess grabbed them and found that there's something in it. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.320 When they opened it up, there was the head of 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.080 a man in his twenties. But I've never been identified, 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.280 like so many of these victims. Yeah, and not to 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.960 trivialize any of this, but again, that stuff is very 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.720 ripe for for movie making. Totally, this whole thing is, 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.960 and it really is surprising that no one's done this yet, 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.600 Like you wouldn't you know, you would write something like 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.560 that in a screenplay and this actually happened. There's so 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.480 there's I didn't see. I haven't read it, but there's 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.280 a graphic novel and maybe it's a series called Torso 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.000 that is um about all this, and I'm guessing that 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.120 would probably be a pretty good basis for the movie. Yeah, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.720 so victim for uh, they were making great efforts to 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.199 find out who this man was. So they actually, um, 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.160 the police circulated a photo of his face and made 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.400 a death mask. If you don't know what a death 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:37.840 mask is, I encourage you to go listen to our 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.719 episode on death masks. It's basically what you would think. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.320 It's a it's a recreation of this man's head and 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.000 they put this thing along with a tattoo map. He 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.960 had tattoos all over himself. Um, an illustrated map of 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.920 his tattoos in this death mask on display at the 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.920 Great Lakes Exposition of nineteen thirty six, where you know, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.520 a hundred thousand people could walk. I mean it was 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.760 a smart idea in one way, because they had a 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.120 you know, could blast it out in the best way 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.800 possible to try and identify who this person was. But 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.640 it was also again like something from a movie. These 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.480 people going to an exposition all of a sudden are 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.080 walking behy these this uh tattoo map and the death 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.680 mask of this man. Uh. And I'm sure the question 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.040 came up, like, well, why is it? Where's the rest 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.839 of his body? Why didn't they just show pictures of 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.640 the tattoos. They're like, stop asking questions, do you know 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.880 the guy or not? No, go get some ice. Cream exactly, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.160 move along. Nothing to see here. But yeah, despite that, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.840 you know, very public um search for an identification. He 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.800 was never still has never been identified, and his tattoos 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.640 were really he had people's names tattooed on him. He 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:50.120 had a cartoon character named Jigs tattooed on him. So 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.680 this guy, you know, you could see his face, they 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.240 had all the tattoos, and he still has never been identified. 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.640 But his his discovery, and I think the very public, 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.400 like the cops circle related a photo of his head 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.880 on a gurney in the morgue at first before they 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.559 made the death mass, among other um uh police agencies 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.200 around the area, and I'm sure to the press as well. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.240 Um So it was kind of public, even though it 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.640 was kind of quiet, but it got the press's attention, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.000 and the press started to connect the dots, and all 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.320 of a sudden, we now were connecting the Lady of 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.480 the Lake to this latest guy and all of the 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.640 other ones as well, and it became very clear that 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.520 there was what they call the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.400 run on the loose um in Cleveland, and no one 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.000 had any idea who it was or when or if 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.480 they were ever going to stop. Yeah. I think there 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:46.120 were seven more victims over the next two years. Victim 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.920 eight were skeletal remains, but they did think they identified 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.880 this person as Rose Wallace. Uh, woman in her forties. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.959 She had gone missing about a year earlier, and there 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.280 was quicklime use to decomposed this body. And this one 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:08.480 interestingly had evidence of more of a clumsy dismemberment. Um. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.320 To me, this one stands out a little bit as 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.560 one that possibly might not be a victim and could 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.600 have been misattributed, uh, to the to the mad butcher. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.319 That's just my personal feeling. I don't I don't know 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.439 if anyone else is saying this, but it's the one 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.960 that stands out to me as being slightly different, same 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.360 as the same, same to me. Yeah, she uh, the 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:32.040 killer clearly lacked a dismemberment plan in that case. Is 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:37.600 that a band? Yeah? Are they good? Yeah? They were 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.959 really good. They were maybe math rock. I think they 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.880 were at the very least they were alternative. Victim nine 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:54.040 was had his heart removed. Um. Victim ten had morphine 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:58.600 in her system. And I think they're they're not quite 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.000 sure how they all died. I think at one point 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.920 they thought most of them died by the decapitation, but 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.360 some were found with uh their blood completely drained from 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.480 their body. Like I said, this one woman had morphine 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.320 inter system, which could make sense. We'll get to something 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.080 else later on of a potential victim that never happened, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.960 where drugs might have been a factor. But um, you know, 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:22.600 it's it's sort of all. You know, there were men, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.839 they were women, There were black people, there were white people. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.800 There wasn't any real rhyme or reason, it seemed like, 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.559 aside from the fact that they were probably culled from 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.360 this area of Ohio, yes, uh. And the fact that 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.520 you know the first two men were emasculated, um, that 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.480 there were women involved too. That somebody's hard to been 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.000 ripped out like there was. There was clearly a sexual 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.800 element of the whole thing, which made the idea that 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:51.120 they were men and women victims UM very confounded. You 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.599 just don't normally see that in a sex killer. You 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.080 see one or the other, and it's usually the sex 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.640 that the person is oriented to. Um are the victims. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.400 And then you know, just to kind of to to 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.360 cap that point off, the killer left victims eleven and 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.160 twelve within a few yards of one another um on 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.959 a dump like a trash dump, and one was a woman, 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.600 Victim eleven was a woman, and victim twelve was a man. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.360 Should we take a break? We should because Cleveland doesn't 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.320 know it at the time, but those of us looking 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.720 through uh, looking backwards through history can tell you that 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.600 this was the last canonical victims in August of night. 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.800 So the killer, as far as anybody knows, is done. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.000 That's right, and most of the grizzling stuff is out 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.480 of the way, and we'll be back to reveal the 0:14:38.600 --> 0:15:12.120 famous investigator right after this. How's that for a tease? 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.160 It was I can't take it anymore, Chuck, please, please? 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.720 Who is it? It's my favorite thing when you play 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:23.520 coy Uh. It was Mr Elliott Nessus, very famous for 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.320 being the head of the Untouchables, for putting uh Al 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:33.080 Capone behind bars, good friend of Sean Connery's very good friend. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.560 Oh that was great. That wasn't very good, because you 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.120 don't bring your knife to a gunfight. To bring a 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.760 gun your dummy. Yeah, I think that was the line. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:43.640 If you wanted to do country, well, you gotta have 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.520 ansh in there, right. But there was no sad didn't 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.280 I I thought that was. I thought I nailed it. 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.920 There aren't no s is in that sentence, right, They're implied. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.440 And I would have done that had there been ses 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.440 don't bring a knife to a gun dunch. How's that right? 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:06.120 You're burger gone your job? All right? Back to the 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.680 serious stuff. Elliott Ness was the after that working what 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.760 was that Chicago? I think, oh, yeah, that was He 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.960 became the alcohol uh investigator in charge of the alcohol 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.760 tax unit for Northern Ohio and August of thirty four, 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.800 and then the Republican mayoral candidate Harold Burton, who would 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.320 go on to win, said, you know what, Ness, you're 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.160 a famous guy. I like the cut of your jib um. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.560 Let me make you in December nine the safety director 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:42.120 for Cleveland, and let me nudge you towards this outstanding 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.360 case that we have. So yeah, when he was hired, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.920 the the case wasn't quite clear that it was a 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.520 big old case when he came in just after like 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.480 a couple of months after victims one and two were found, 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:00.200 and just a couple of weeks before flow Polilo was out, 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.440 So it wasn't evident that that there was a serial 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.240 murderer on the loose. Um, but that also means that 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.440 Elliott Nest came in right at the beginning of this thing, 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.840 so he was the public safety director for it. He 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.879 became the face of the frustrated police effort to capture 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.280 the Torso killer, right although the lead investigator, what was 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:26.639 that guy's name, Peter Maurillo, Yeah, he was. He was 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.560 I don't know about obsessed, but it became sort of 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.120 his main focus of work was to tirelessly find out 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.000 who this murderer was. And I assume that it's weird 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.040 because I really don't know what a safety director was. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:45.320 I don't think is that even still a thing? Uh? Yeah, 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.960 I think there's a public safety director position still there. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.760 They basically are in charge of the police department, the 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.800 fire department, all that stuff. You're there the head of that. 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.479 They're like they probably the liaison between the mayor in 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.840 those services, but not the guardian angels because they do 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.960 what they want to do. Hey man, they're staying on 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.320 their own too. Uh. The coroner A. J. Pierce of 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.560 the case, I think he was the first corner on 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.919 the first case, said you know what we need to do. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.560 We need to get together, we need to have a 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.680 little summit and start sharing information. I'm gonna call it 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.760 the Torso Clinic, which was interesting. I don't know if 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.600 he did or the press did, yeah, either way, because 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.040 the press was very much involved in this whole run obviously. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.720 But at this conference is where he first put forward 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.280 a profile, which was this is someone who would not 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.080 stand out in Kingsbury one. Uh, then someone who knew 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.800 the area could blend in, uh, somebody, you know. We 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.640 think it's a man who is a powerful man because 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.280 they need to be able to you know, it takes 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.879 a lot of work to dismember a body and to 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.840 haul these bodies around and drop them off in different places. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.600 And we think he also might have some anatomical knowledge, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.560 not saying that he's necessarily a doctor or a surgeon, uh, 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.040 kind of to jack the ripper thing. But but this, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.760 this person clearsly clearly knows their way around a knife 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.320 in a scalpel. Yeah, because I mean, if you really 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.000 closely examine a body and like look at the places 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.640 where you know the body was separated with the knife, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:18.479 you can find hesitancy marks, you can find the hacking. Um, 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.880 there's all sorts of clues and telltale signs and apparently 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.560 this guy had a lot of confidence and had a 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.640 lot of skill or knowledge about anatomy. So, like you said, 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:30.520 maybe not a doctor, but at the very least a 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.560 very skilled butcher who had studied human anatomy um before. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.199 But eventually they finally were like, this is probably some 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.760 sort of doctor. Yeah, And I think they eventually learned 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.200 that most of the victims died within a few dame 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.800 a few days of being discovered, and most were moved, 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.440 except for victim five, where they found a blood bath. 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.640 You know that was this didn't happen to the other 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.160 crime scenes. It was virtually no blood to be found, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.399 and in fact, I think one was completely drained of blood. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.920 Oh really, so that I mean that takes I don't 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.240 know if that happened naturally just because of the nature 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.680 of of dismemberment or it was a purposeful thing. But 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.400 only one body was found kind of clearly murdered there, right, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.119 So um, yeah, I think that the fact that the 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.159 blood wasn't on the scene and it wasn't in the 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.680 body any longer means that had to go somewhere. So 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.119 that the fact that they were dismembered um and the 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.000 and packaged I mean, like a lot of them were found. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.760 You know. Um, the one unidentified tattooed man, his head 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.760 was wrapped in trousers, but other people's were wrapped in 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:45.440 newspaper or brown paper like they were meat. Um, someone 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.359 was was put in a makeshift box. Um, there was. 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.240 There was a lot of time dedicated to the dismemberment 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.800 of these bodies, and that that that leaves a lot 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.280 of evidence and you need a place where you're not 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.800 going to be in erupted and that's not easy to 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.560 come by. So that became a really like big point 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.479 is you know, we were pretty sure that this person 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:14.800 is is snatching victims from the from the Kingsbury Run area. Um, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.600 but where are they committing these acts? And they tried 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.480 to find that that place as much as they tried 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.639 to find the killer. Yeah, I mean that would be 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.080 a big clue if they had some murder room, uh 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:30.160 Dexter style. Sure, but just giveaway every time. That's coming back. 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:31.640 By the way, I don't know if you ever watched Exter, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.240 what do you mean it's coming back? They're bringing Dexter 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:40.080 back man with the original like Michael C. Hall. No, Yes, 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.440 they are, indeed, And I had mixed feelings because we 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:44.440 love that show for a long time, but it is 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.720 the end. It is one of the shark jump here 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.480 shows of all time. It's it's like the shark itself jumped, 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.320 I think. So it's insane, it's amazing. I mean, I 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.399 love Michael c Hell though. We were just now finishing 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.200 six ft Under again, so I'm always happy to see 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.760 him again. But I'll give it again. You see Colden July. 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.200 M Mmm, no, what is that. It's a little bit 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:12.879 like a straw Dogs type story. Um, but he's like 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.920 having a battle Don Johnson. It's just really like, if 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.399 you want I know, it's weird casting, but if you 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.320 want to just experience like a constant, you know, mid 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.159 to low level dread for two hours, Like, let's go 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.440 ahead and watch that. It's well done in that respect. 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:32.280 Or watch the Lighthouse. Probably it's probably better. It's so good. 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.040 Let's just stop talking about this and talking about the 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.000 Lighthouse for the rest of the time, all right. So, uh, 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.680 Peter Morillo, who, like we said, was a lead detective, 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:43.560 he's sort of obsessed with this thing. He starts not 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.880 only focusing on uh, this land down by the river. 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.520 But I didn't mean that, but that's what it was. 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.840 But he started focusing on the rail roads and these 0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:01.040 these hoboes the railroads. Okay, you know where trains run 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.480 on sure, yeah, I just never heard it pronounced the 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:09.680 way you did, the first railroad. It was hilarious. I 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:11.440 gotta lighten this up. So I were talking about this 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.760 membered towards exactly. Um. So he started looking in these 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.160 box cars and I don't I mean as hobo an 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.000 offensive word. Can you still say that? Don't think so. 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.480 I think it's a point of pride, a term of 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:29.520 pride for people to still ride the rails. Okay. Um. 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.040 So he's still out there doing his thing at this 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:36.080