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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, an IVY league grad turned

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Speaker 1: assassin now charged with murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Breaking a person of interest identified in the United Healthcare

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Speaker 2: CEO shooting. A man taken into custody in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Chief of Detectives NYPD Joe Kinney, A.

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Speaker 3: Man was taking it to custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania

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Speaker 3: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born

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Speaker 3: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

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Speaker 3: He has no prior arrest history in New York. This

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Speaker 3: case was brought to a successful conclusion based on the

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Speaker 3: co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the Intelligence

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Speaker 3: and counter Terrorism Bureau, of federal partners at the FBI,

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Speaker 3: the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of

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Speaker 3: the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: Repeat for those.

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Speaker 1: Of you just joining us, bombshell. An arrest has been

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Speaker 1: made in the so called health Boss murder of all people,

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Speaker 1: an IVY League grad turn assassin born with a silver

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Speaker 1: spoon in his mouth right now in isolation and a

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania CI Correctional Institute at Huntingdon.

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Speaker 2: What happened?

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Speaker 1: How did a guy with everything turn into a cold

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Speaker 1: blooded assassin? Joining me in All Star Panel Straight Out

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Speaker 1: to Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Dailymail

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Speaker 1: dot Com and star of the podcast The Trial of

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Speaker 1: Didi Hermania.

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Speaker 2: Tell tell me about the arrest? Right.

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Speaker 4: So, finally, after a five day manhunt, police found a suspect,

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Speaker 4: Luigi Mandiano, at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Actually, police now

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Speaker 4: say that he had been in the state, moving back

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Speaker 4: and forth between Pittsburgh and other places for days. It

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Speaker 4: appears that an employee at McDonald's called police after someone

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Speaker 4: recognized him and said he was acting suspicious. Police said

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Speaker 4: yesterday that when they approached him, he gave the same

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Speaker 4: fake ID from New Jersey that he had given to

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Speaker 4: check into the hostel in New York. Now, when police

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Speaker 4: asked him if he had recently been to New York,

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Speaker 4: that's when he started shaking and became very nervous, and

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Speaker 4: that's when he was arrested. And now he's been now

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Speaker 4: charged with the murder of Brian Thompson.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Tyler Fry.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is a rookie police officer, was formerly with

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department.

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Speaker 2: Listen whatever we got on to.

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Speaker 5: Seeing there, we were able to pretty much find where

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Speaker 5: he was at the in the restaurant, and as soon

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Speaker 5: as he pulled he was wearing a blue medical mask.

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Speaker 5: As soon as we pulled that down, or we asked

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Speaker 5: him to pull it down, we me and my partner

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Speaker 5: and I recognized him immediately. He didn't even think twice

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Speaker 5: about it. We knew that was our guy, but he

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Speaker 5: was very he was very cooperative with us, didn't really

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Speaker 5: give us too many issues. Once we found out his identity,

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Speaker 5: we took it from.

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Speaker 1: There time or Fry being lauded today in making the arrest.

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Speaker 1: That's where our friends at eleven Alive. To Dave Matt,

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Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter who's been on the

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Speaker 1: case from the very beginning. Dave Matt, the big conflicting

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Speaker 1: reports did to MacDonald's employee, I d him or was

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Speaker 1: in an elderly patron who identified Maggioni, Luigi Maggioni and

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Speaker 1: that patron then alerted an employee.

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Speaker 2: And the employee he called nine one one. How did

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Speaker 2: it go down, Mack?

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Speaker 6: That is exactly how it happened, Nancy. An elderly couple

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Speaker 6: looking over noticed him. He was sitting in the very

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Speaker 6: back of the restaurant. He's got his little blue mask up.

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Speaker 6: He's sitting there eating breakfast, looking at his laptop. But

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Speaker 6: an elderly man inscribes him back there and goes to

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Speaker 6: an employee says, I think that's the guy. So the

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Speaker 6: employee calls and the police were right there.

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Speaker 1: Now I've heard that he was acting suspiciously. To Cheryl

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Speaker 1: mccollumy's joining me, forensic expert and director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, star of hit podcast Zone seven.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl, you have to have a.

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Speaker 1: Reason to detain, Okay, not arrest, but to detain.

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Speaker 2: It's an age.

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Speaker 1: Old similar case us versus Terry.

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Speaker 2: Okay, to stop someone.

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Speaker 1: Just to ask for ID so to say he was

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Speaker 1: acting suspiciously, the guys in the back booth out of

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Speaker 1: McDonald's on his laptop. I don't know what is suspicious

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Speaker 1: about that. I'll tell you what I think, Cheryl. I

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Speaker 1: think they identified him. The patron identify, find him and go, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's the guy I'm seeing on TV that's shot down.

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Speaker 1: The CEO and the employee call nine one one. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's suspicious about that, but a police officer

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Speaker 1: has the right, based on intuition, to ask you for ID.

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Speaker 2: That is okay.

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Speaker 7: They were called there because two people, not one, thought hey,

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Speaker 7: that looks like the guy, and if he's eating breakfast,

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Speaker 7: he's having to move that mask a little bit to

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Speaker 7: take a bite. Once they approach him, law enforcement says, hey,

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Speaker 7: we were called here. Let me just go ahead and

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Speaker 7: see your ID. The ID that he gives them is

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Speaker 7: the same sake New Jersey ID that he gave to

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Speaker 7: the hostel. At that point, they're like, this is the guy.

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Speaker 7: We also recognize him from the photograph that NYPD put out,

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Speaker 7: And I just want to say that is absolutely fantastic

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Speaker 7: police work that they put his face out so fast

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Speaker 7: that somebody in Pennsylvania is going to recognize him.

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Speaker 2: Joining you right now.

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Speaker 1: High profile lawyer, defense attorney Jason Oceans, who practices in

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, Jason Oceans, don't you just hate it as

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney when the cops do it by the book,

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Speaker 1: there's really nothing for you to complain about.

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Speaker 2: And can't you just see it. After my dad retired.

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Speaker 1: From the railroad, a group of his friends he would

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Speaker 1: occasionally go, very rarely, but they would get together at McDonald's. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're not paying five dollars for a cup of coffee

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Speaker 1: at Starbucks. And they would be there every day, many

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Speaker 1: of them military vets like my father. And can't you

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Speaker 1: just see people that go to McDonald's every day and

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Speaker 1: they're sitting there going, Oh my stars, that's him.

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Speaker 2: And the police did not screw it up. This rookie

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Speaker 2: formally a sheriff, however, comes.

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Speaker 1: In, he's got a suspicion and he does a terry

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Speaker 1: goold terry stop.

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Speaker 2: I think you highlighted that way.

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Speaker 8: And know as a defense attorney, listen, you're presented the

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Speaker 8: evidence and the facts as they are.

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Speaker 2: Nancy, you know, we don't make that up.

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Speaker 8: We might highlight things or focus on different aspects to

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Speaker 8: ensure you.

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Speaker 4: Know, justice, if you will.

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Speaker 2: But it was a great stop.

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Speaker 8: And you quite properly note that he was experienced as

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Speaker 8: a sheriff. So we might have been a rookie to

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Speaker 8: the Altuona PD, but certainly his instincts kicked in, moved

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Speaker 8: the mass, secured the scene, made sure that he was

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Speaker 8: safe and his partner, and you know, kudos to DENYPD

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Speaker 8: and getting the information out the picture, as it's been

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Speaker 8: noted that was widespread national news and really just good

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Speaker 8: old police detective work.

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Speaker 1: Hey Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective, thirty years

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Speaker 1: in the city, now star.

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Speaker 2: Of the Goldshield Show. It's a podcast, Tom Smith, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with me. Tom.

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Speaker 1: You know how wrong this could have gone, how sideways

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Speaker 1: it could have all turned. You know, he had the

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Speaker 1: ghost gun with him, and one of the gun charges

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Speaker 1: against him, he's got multiple gun charges is a he's

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Speaker 1: got a suppressor aka silencer. But also he had a

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Speaker 1: loaded illegal gun. There wasn't just some amo in his backpack.

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Speaker 1: That gun was loaded.

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Speaker 2: You know how wrong this takedown could have gone.

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Speaker 9: They could have gone terribly wrong. The good thing was

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Speaker 9: they got him kind of by surprise. They got him

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Speaker 9: in a confined area, and the deputies who showed up

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Speaker 9: did a masterful job at doing this. They got on

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Speaker 9: top of him quick before he could do anything or

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Speaker 9: think about anything. And like I said, being in that

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Speaker 9: corner helped them a lot and they took advantage of that.

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Speaker 1: You mean him sitting in a back booth in the corner. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was nowhere for him.

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Speaker 9: To go, absolutely, And that's what you're talking about, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 2: You know that's what Smith. This is when I asked

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Speaker 2: you what could have gone wrong?

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Speaker 1: I was a rookie ADA Assistant District attorney in inter

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Speaker 1: city Atlanta and had befriended a cop, a rookie cop

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Speaker 1: that had testified in a lot of I was putting

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Speaker 1: up to the grand jury, Randy Shapani, and he made

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Speaker 1: a routine traffic stop.

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Speaker 2: Routine traffic stop. That was it.

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Speaker 1: The guy rolled down, the driver rolled down the window,

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Speaker 1: took a gun and shot him in the head, just.

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Speaker 2: Like that for nothing. So you never know when is

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Speaker 2: going to be your last day all the police force.

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Speaker 10: Tom Oh.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I lived with that for thirty years. And that's

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Speaker 9: what I mean by the great actions of this deputy.

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Speaker 9: He didn't let him get in upper hand. He took

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Speaker 9: control of the situation and had him covered, giving him

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Speaker 9: no way to get out of that area or to

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Speaker 9: any overt act towards the officers.

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Speaker 1: According to a friend of his, his vertebra were about

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Speaker 1: a quarter to a half inch disaligned. The pain was

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Speaker 1: excruciating and possibly had pinched a nerve.

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Speaker 2: Dave Matt Crime Online.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that he confided her friends and his

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Speaker 1: coshier on the fortieth floor of a Hawaii high rise

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Speaker 1: that he couldn't have sex because.

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Speaker 2: Of back pain.

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Speaker 6: It's a constant, agonizing feelings that he had all the time,

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Speaker 6: and talking about not being able to have sex was

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Speaker 6: just a way of him expressing that this was a

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Speaker 6: chronic situation with no relief insight. It's like rusting from

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Speaker 6: the inside.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining me.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of Body

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Speaker 1: Bags with Josephcott Morgan. Joe Scott explain the intense pain,

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Speaker 1: intense pain that comes along with a back ailment like

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Speaker 1: that and how that factors in to a young man

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Speaker 1: twenty six years old they can have sex.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it would be horribly frustrating Nancy over this period

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Speaker 10: of time, and you can see the horrific appearance of this.

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Speaker 10: The surgery in and of itself is something that he

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Speaker 10: would have been laid up with for a protracted period

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Speaker 10: of time. We've got four screws that are being demonstrated here,

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Speaker 10: and this is a crucial pivot point in the axis

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Speaker 10: of your body. So he would have been dealing with

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Speaker 10: chronic pain, Nancy. One of the things I'm wondering about,

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Speaker 10: and I talked to Bethany about this off air, I

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Speaker 10: really wonder if he was taking medication for pain management

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Speaker 10: relative to this, because this is not something that would

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Speaker 10: have just you know, he would have just healed from

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Speaker 10: it very easily. We have to understand how far post

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Speaker 10: surgical he is to try to understand this. Was he

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Speaker 10: under the influence of any kind of medication and did

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Speaker 10: he even have a doctor that he was following.

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Speaker 1: I know where you're going with this. This is like

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Speaker 1: pouring gas on the fire. For Jason Ocean's defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: whether he was on pain meds or not does not

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Speaker 1: change intent to fire the weapon. He is currently charged

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Speaker 1: with at least three crimes one murder two in New York.

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Speaker 2: Why not murder one? Murder one in New York? Correct

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Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, Jason Oceans.

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Speaker 1: Murder one is usually reserved for a police officer. A

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Speaker 1: correctional officer that has been killed, torture is used. That's

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Speaker 1: when we see a murder one. Charged with murder one, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can get life without parole murder two, Jason, Police,

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Speaker 1: I don't mind if you interrupt.

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Speaker 2: Murder two is when you intend to do the act.

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Speaker 2: It's not an accident.

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Speaker 1: It's not drunk driving, it's not voluntary manslaughter. It's not

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Speaker 1: a heat of passion. You mean to.

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Speaker 2: Pull the trigger.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the sentence from murder II in New York is

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Speaker 1: fifteen to life. There is no life without parole for

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Speaker 1: murder two. He's charged with that. He's charged with forging

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Speaker 1: and that's probably going to be his passport, and he's

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Speaker 1: charged that is called forged document, either the passport or

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Speaker 1: the driver's license, and he's yeah.

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Speaker 2: And he's charged with.

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Speaker 1: One count of criminal possession of a weapon including a suppressor,

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Speaker 1: a silencer, and I believe he's going to be charged

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Speaker 1: with possession of live AMMO and a gun. Also, he

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Speaker 1: had a weapon without a serial number on it.

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Speaker 2: We know it was a ghost gun.

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Speaker 1: Now And unless I'm wrong on those charges, Jason, do

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Speaker 1: I have any of that wrong?

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Speaker 2: Quickly, no great recitation.

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Speaker 8: The top count would be a murder two, you know,

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Speaker 8: murder one referred as you did reference only to law

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Speaker 8: enforcement officers.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is talking about isy on pain medication.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 1: Save it for the jury because he had this intense,

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Speaker 1: intense period of time, an extended period of time where

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Speaker 1: he planned this, and there is no way he's going

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Speaker 1: to walk because he says, oh, I took a xenax.

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Speaker 1: He may have been on pain medication, although we have

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Speaker 1: not been told he had it with him.

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Speaker 2: We know he was exploring.

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Speaker 1: Alternative methods of healing and pain release, such as magic mushrooms,

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Speaker 1: but he had the wherewithal to have a gun with

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Speaker 1: him and a fake passport, according to the NYC Police Commissioner.

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Speaker 11: Tish, Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously

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Speaker 11: and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a

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Speaker 11: US passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on

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Speaker 11: his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with

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Speaker 11: the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing,

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Speaker 11: including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted

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Speaker 11: individual Bombshell.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, an arrest goes down of the

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Speaker 1: so called assassin wanted and the cold blooded execution of

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Speaker 1: health care boss that ran United health Care raking in

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars a year. While zany theories circulated on

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Speaker 1: social media that Thomson had actually hired someone to kill him.

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Speaker 1: There were illusions that Thomson's wife was somehow involved and.

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Speaker 2: It set up a hit. All of that is bogus,

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Speaker 2: All of that is bs.

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Speaker 1: Instead, what we've got is a twenty six year old

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Speaker 1: Ivy League grad double major from University of Pennsylvania. Yet

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Speaker 1: that's him if you look at his social media. He

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Speaker 1: and his family have traveled all around the world. He

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Speaker 1: had the best of everything. His grandparents Italian immigrants that

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Speaker 1: can be traced back straight to Sicily work their fingers

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Speaker 1: to the bone to build a financial empire, bought country clubs,

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Speaker 1: golf course, started them home health care, living facilities for seniors.

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Speaker 1: All that money, all that education, all that privilege, and

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Speaker 1: what does he do, According to.

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Speaker 2: Police, guns down United.

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Speaker 1: Healthcare CEO and boy, according to them, did he have

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Speaker 1: it all planned out, including the use of a three

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Speaker 1: D manufacturer at home. Ghost gun, no serial number, no

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Speaker 1: way to identify it. As a matter of fact, if

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Speaker 1: you do your research, you will learn that ghost guns

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Speaker 1: are only trace less than one percent.

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Speaker 2: Of the time.

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Speaker 1: He thought he had it all figured out until an

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Speaker 1: elderly patron having coffee at McDonald's saw him and raised

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Speaker 1: the alarm.

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Speaker 11: What mortem I listen also recovered was a fraudulent New

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Speaker 11: Jersey ID, matching the ID our suspect used to check

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Speaker 11: into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally,

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Speaker 11: officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his

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Speaker 11: motivation and mindset.

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Speaker 2: Oh my stars, another manifesto.

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Speaker 1: Nothing can make me happier than to have an accused

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Speaker 1: killer write a manifesto about their feelings.

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Speaker 2: Joining me.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho an wants to joining us

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Speaker 1: out of la author of deal Breaker. You can see

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Speaker 1: her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: We hear.

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Speaker 1: Veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean's jumping on something. Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan rightly said, could this guy have been on pain meds?

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Speaker 1: But did you just hear the New York City Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner Tish state that he had this very well thought

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Speaker 1: out manifesto? He had fake IDs. The degree of pre

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Speaker 1: planning is off the chart. Now, why he decided to

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Speaker 1: keep his beloved ghost gun with him, which absolutely ties.

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Speaker 2: Him to the murder, is beyond me.

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Speaker 1: I guess that Ivy League grad from graduate degree from

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Speaker 1: University Pennsylvania didn't help anything when it comes to this. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this photo of the fake ID that he apparently obtained

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Speaker 1: from New Jersey under the name Mark Rosario. That took

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Speaker 1: some thinking or from our friends at CNN. So doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: could you help me shoot down what Scott Morgan and

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Speaker 1: Jason ogens have concocted. I took his annex, and therefore

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing.

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Speaker 12: Well, Luigi Mangioni's actions are consistent with multiple pathologies psychopathologies.

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Speaker 12: First of all, he's extraordinarily entitled to think that he

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Speaker 12: could solve the whole healthcare crisis, that he's going to

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Speaker 12: get rid of these parasites. He's anti capitalists. He's also

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Speaker 12: very that's grandiose, it's entitled to take somebody's life. I

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Speaker 12: don't believe this whole thing about the relative who was sick.

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Speaker 12: I think that's just a rationalization for murder. I think

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Speaker 12: he's been homicidal since his youth. He wears what we

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Speaker 12: call the mask of sanity.

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Speaker 2: On hold on, doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 1: He's brought up a really good point, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want it to get lost in the sauce.

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Speaker 2: People are trying to rationalize it. They can't believe, Oh, what's.

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Speaker 1: A millionaire boy like Luigi Manngioni with his Ivy League degree,

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Speaker 1: Why would he do such a thing? You know what

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Speaker 1: about it gives it that much thought when it's street crime, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: book him, he's guilty, But now we're like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, why did he do it?

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Speaker 12: I think, actually there's a clear motive, and to me,

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Speaker 12: he has this type. He would be consistent with the

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Speaker 12: type of psychopathology where the person attacks the very institutions

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Speaker 12: of people who are.

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Speaker 2: Trying to help them.

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Speaker 12: Okay, so think of the person in a restaurant who

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Speaker 12: screams at the waiter who's trying to do everything for them.

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Speaker 12: They just think they can't get enough service, these babylike people.

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Speaker 12: So he's anti capitalist, but he comes from a very

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Speaker 12: wealthy family from whom he has benefite.

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Speaker 1: How can you be anti capitalist when you were at

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Speaker 1: the trough of capitalism exactly eating more than anybody else

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Speaker 1: you're a pig.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, well, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. In other words,

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Speaker 12: people who want more and more and more and never

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Speaker 12: works out well for them. And also, you know he

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Speaker 12: has this Ivy League education. He's also anti medicine, anti insurance.

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Speaker 12: I bet he build I bet insurance covered for that

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Speaker 12: very extensive procedure that he had.

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Speaker 2: So this again is.

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Speaker 12: Where he's attacking the institutions that are there to help him.

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Speaker 12: So some people's pathology is such that they always think

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Speaker 12: things are being done to them rather than for them.

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Speaker 12: And when these people go to the hospital, they think

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Speaker 12: the doctors, the nurses, everybody's you know, torturing them, not

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Speaker 12: giving them what they need, and they have a difficult

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Speaker 12: time putting themselves in the doctor's shoes, the fact that

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Speaker 12: the doctor is there to help them. In terms of medication, Nancy,

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Speaker 12: the only role I could see is that opioids, and

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Speaker 12: most surely he has prescribed those activate the MEW receptors

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Speaker 12: in the brain, and that those are the same receptors

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Speaker 12: that are activated when our mothers hold us as children.

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Speaker 1: So given that, Ethne, why just a moment plays We're

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Speaker 1: showing photos of him on the each in Hawaii. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who can I work every day, my

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Speaker 1: husband works every day, My twins go to school every day,

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Speaker 1: and they work in the summer. Who has time to

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Speaker 1: take this much time off in Hawaii and live in

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Speaker 1: a luxury high rise.

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Speaker 2: How does that happen? Yet, you're anti capitalist. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense to me. Two and two is not equally four.

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Speaker 12: No, it doesn't equal four unless you think of somebody

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Speaker 12: who is extremely disturbed and they are resentful and envious

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Speaker 12: of the people who are.

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Speaker 2: Giving something to them. Think of babies.

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Speaker 12: The minute the mother leaves the room, the baby screams

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Speaker 12: and cries and wants the mother even more. And that's

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Speaker 12: appropriate for infancy. But the baby doesn't really care or

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Speaker 12: is not able to grasp that the mother might be

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Speaker 12: tired or depressed or whatever, has other siblings to take

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Speaker 12: care of. And so if someone gets stuck in that

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Speaker 12: developmental phase, nothing that they're given is enough, and they

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Speaker 12: don't care about anybody around them.

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Speaker 2: They scream and cry for whatever they want.

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Speaker 13: In high school, he is the valedictorian of the Gilman

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Speaker 13: School for Boys, a private school in Baltimore. As an

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Speaker 13: Ivy League graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. He is

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Speaker 13: a tech whiz, but somewhere along the way, Luigi Mangioni

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Speaker 13: developed a grudge against the medical community, either due to

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Speaker 13: how a sick relative is treated or maybe his own treatment.

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Speaker 13: An X ray photo on his ex account shows four

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Speaker 13: pins in a spine, and he has five books involving

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Speaker 13: chronic back pain on his reading list on his Goodreads account.

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Speaker 14: So the class of twenty sixteen that only explored new

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Speaker 14: frontiers but also maintained Gilman's most important traditions. I think

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Speaker 14: this combination of preservation and exploration is what Gilman is

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Speaker 14: all about. Gilman maintains his classic core values by cultivating minds, body,

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Speaker 14: and spirit and its students, but also champions and environment

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Speaker 14: of acceptance and diversity while selling in his technological endeavors.

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Speaker 14: Our imagination, drawsmir ins, and our courage largely depends when

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Speaker 14: your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields, and on

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Speaker 14: the stage. So parents and faculty, thank you for all

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Speaker 14: you have done for us today is as much an

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Speaker 14: achievement for you as it is for us.

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Speaker 1: That is from the Gilman School, which is a private

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Speaker 1: college preparatory school for boys only costs.

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Speaker 2: I think over forty grand a year.

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you he wasn't bussing tables to pay that

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Speaker 1: tuition bill.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensic expert and street cup.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: So often when we prosecute and investigate crimes, we see

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Speaker 1: the defendant and this is not an excuse at all,

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Speaker 1: comes from low income, a low education or no education,

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Speaker 1: no job, and.

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Speaker 2: They end up committing crimes. That's not an excuse.

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Speaker 1: There is no justification for a violent crime, period. But

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Speaker 1: rarely do you see an ivy league grad with multi

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Speaker 1: millionaire family members commit a crime like this, And even

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Speaker 1: more rare, it's when the first crime, now true, he

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Speaker 1: had a Hawaii violation of going into some part of

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Speaker 1: a public park that was closed off to the public.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: You rarely see someone go from zero to one twenty

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Speaker 1: mph a premeditated murder. So you got the silver spoon

442
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: and you got the zero to one twenty mph going

443
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: on here.

444
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 7: Well, let's talk about Wales. You got you got intelligence

445
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 7: versus streets marts, which he doesn't have any which is

446
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 7: the reason he was caught. If you look and you

447
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 7: think of back pain, imagine severe back pain. But you're

448
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 7: hunched over, right in a manifesto. You're hunched over building

449
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 7: a ghost gun. You're hunched over white known bullets. You

450
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 7: decide to take a bus which is gonna take you

451
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 7: four times as long as you if you drove yourself,

452
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 7: and then you're gonna hop on a freaking bicycle. It

453
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 7: doesn't look like back pain to me. It looks like

454
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 7: his motive is clearly in his mind. Only in my opinion.

455
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: Well true, he may have been driven to distraction by

456
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: the back pain, we.

457
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: Know that, But murder is not Murder is not the answer.

458
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: We were listening to Luigi Mangioni as the valedictorian at

459
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: the Gilman School, speaking about all the values that the

460
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: Gilman School maintains.

461
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: This guy came from so much privileged. Listen.

462
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 15: The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes

463
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 15: from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew

464
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 15: up poor as a first generation American who built a

465
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 15: real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments.

466
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 15: Mangoni is the cousin of a Republican Maryland House of

467
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 15: Delegates member, Nino Mangoni. His mother, Kathleen Zan Nino Mangoni

468
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 15: owns a travel company and his sister, Maria Santamanngoni, is

469
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 15: a respected doctor, a medical resident at ut Southwestern Medical

470
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 15: Center in Dallas after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School.

471
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: Right now, the information we're getting from Altuna is that

472
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: the gun appears to be a ghost on may have

473
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: been made on a three D printer. The capability of

474
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: file with firing a nine millimeters round. Obviously that will

475
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: come out during all ballistics testing.

476
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, but now straight out

477
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now co

478
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: host of the gold Shields podcast.

479
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: Tom, I want to talk about the ghost gun.

480
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: What's your experience with ghost guns and guns made from

481
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: three D printers you can make when at home, you

482
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: get the parts, you can even get them online.

483
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: Hey, here are some photos from our friends at CNN.

484
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 9: What do you know, Tom, Yeah, they're extremely dangerous and

485
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 9: kind of taking over a criminality today. And the way

486
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 9: it's done, it's really simple. You can buy a three

487
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 9: D printer for anywhere from three hundred to three thousand

488
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 9: dollars and literally create this is what I'm holding in

489
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 9: front of you, the frame of a nine millimeter You

490
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 9: can create this. It's polymer, it's plastic, and this is

491
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 9: what's created in these three D printers. Then you go

492
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 9: and just separately buy all the metal parts that you

493
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 9: need to make the gun functional. Those are done and

494
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 9: bought in kits or separately. And the problem with the

495
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 9: ghost gun is there's no identifying marktings on it. There's

496
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 9: no serial numbers, there's nothing.

497
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 10: They are clean.

498
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: And then when you go and.

499
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 9: Buy the parts or the kits, those also have no

500
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 9: identifying numbers on them or serial numbers. So that creates

501
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 9: a very very dangerous weapon that police cannot trace when

502
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 9: a crime is committed.

503
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: Now, generally speaking, firearms or manufactured my licensed companies, and

504
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: they all have serial numbers displayed on the frame of

505
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: the gun.

506
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: That allows cops.

507
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: Like you to trace the gun back to the manufacturer,

508
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: the firearms dealer, and the original purchaser.

509
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: Not true with a ghost gun.

510
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 9: Tom, No, they're absolutely untraceable. There are no identifying markings

511
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 9: on them whatsoever.

512
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: So even if you commit the crime with.

513
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 9: It and discard it, it's still not going to come

514
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 9: back to anything if it's recovered. Much less in this

515
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 9: and since catching him with it, there's no traceable evidence

516
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 9: to it, to where it came from, who manufactured it,

517
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 9: or anything. It's going to be strictly on his statements

518
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 9: of having that gun on him.

519
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, Thoma Smith.

520
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but not out loud to

521
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: a jury, of course. But sometimes I wonder who is

522
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: going about their day and.

523
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: They suddenly think, Hey, I'm going to go online and

524
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm going.

525
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: To get the parts to three D build a ghost

526
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: gun with a silencer aka suppressor. Who a has time

527
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: to think about building their own gun with a three

528
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: D printer thinks about a suppressor aka silencer?

529
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: Who does that? Why not just you have to have

530
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: a gun? Why don't you just go down to the

531
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: gun shop and buy one. I mean, I think I

532
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: know the answer, but let me hear you tell it.

533
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's just it's another aspect of criminality, and it's

534
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 9: dangerous and it's a horrible heartbreak for what's going on

535
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 9: in this country with untraceable weapons.

536
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: It's just constant.

537
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 9: And the thing that you just said, Nancy, you can

538
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 9: make this gun and put it together in a couple hours,

539
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 9: by the time is dried, and you're able to break

540
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 9: it apart in.

541
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: A couple of hours.

542
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 9: If you have the mechanical parts to it already in

543
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 9: your possession, you can.

544
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: Get these online and put them together at home.

545
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: How hard is it, Tom, It's not hard at all.

546
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 9: I mean, look at the Internet today. You can build

547
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 9: anything step by step. All you got to do is

548
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 9: watch a video.

549
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: You know, the first one was fired back around I

550
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: think around twenty thirteen.

551
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: And look how they have taken over, Tom Smith.

552
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, you now, it's not even handguns. It's long

553
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 9: guns as well. You can get you know, the receivers

554
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 9: to this made and then by the other parts to

555
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 9: a long gun now in ar or anything like that.

556
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 9: It's taken on a world of its own, which is

557
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 9: really dangerous.

558
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Harmonion Rodriguez joining US chief

559
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: US reporter for deallymail dot com.

560
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: Harmonia with all.

561
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: The plate, the pre planning, the meticulous uh visiting the scene,

562
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 1: going to a hostel under a fake name, getting a

563
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: fake jersey ID, getting a fake passport, wearing a mask everywhere,

564
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: his getaway on the bike, going through Central changing clothes

565
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: SA almost out of a James Bond movie, except he

566
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: kept the ghost gun, he kept the passport, he.

567
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: Kept the fake ID.

568
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: He kept about ten thousand dollars which he can tests

569
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: cash with him and foreign currency.

570
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: Is it true he still had the ghost gun on him.

571
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: Correct.

572
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 4: That's one of the interesting things about these cases. He

573
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: did go through so much preparation, yet he made several

574
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 4: mistakes that got him caught. The first one, of course,

575
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 4: being when he pulled down his mask to flirt with

576
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: an employee.

577
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: At the hostel.

578
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: That's how police were able to get his image, which

579
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 4: eventually led to his arrest. And as you mentioned, he

580
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 4: had on him at the.

581
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: Time of his arrest.

582
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 4: All these clues that then, aside from his face, of course,

583
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: made it clear to police that this was their guy.

584
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: I mean, he kept the same ID that police already

585
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 4: had issued a picture of because the hostel had a

586
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 4: picture of that fake ID from New Jersey. He also

587
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 4: had the same sad to weapon as well as the

588
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 4: silencer in Nancy. So yeah, a lot of preparation, but

589
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 4: there were several things that he overlooked which eventually led

590
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: to his demida.

591
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Howy you think about it, Cheryl McColl explain, It's not

592
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: hard to break down a gun.

593
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: Oh, the photos of the gun are from my friends

594
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: at seen in Cheryl.

595
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: If he could put the gun together, he couldn't think

596
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: to break it down and lay various parts of it

597
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: and bodies of water or different trash cans along his

598
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: bus route.

599
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 7: He was proud of this gun nancy he made it.

600
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 7: He took the time to get the plans, to get

601
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 7: the equipment, to get all the material. He was never

602
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 7: going to throw that gun away. This is something that

603
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 7: means more to him than the average person could understand.

604
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 7: It is also associated with the biggest thing he's ever

605
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 7: going to do in his life. He's proud of that moment.

606
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 7: If you look again what he did, the time that

607
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 7: he took, stay in for the ten days, building the guns,

608
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 7: taking a bus ride, getting the monopoly money right, the manifesto,

609
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 7: waiting on the victims. This was not something he planned

610
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 7: in a day or week. This is something that meant

611
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 7: a lot to him.

612
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: You know, Jason Oceans, we are now looking toward extradition. Extradition.

613
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: I've handled one hundred of them. They take about ten minutes.

614
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: It's not about finding guilt or innocence. Extradition it can

615
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: be from another state, like from Pennsylvania in this case,

616
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: to New York.

617
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: It can be from Mexico or Paris to the US.

618
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: If we've got an extradition treaty, but nobody's saying did

619
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: you do this? There's no jury trial. It's just very simple.

620
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: It's a are you Luigi Mangioni? And TOI are you

621
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: the Luigi Mangioni named? And this warrant for your arrest?

622
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 8: That's all it is, right, It's just you have some

623
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 8: speedy trial issue issues that come into play in terms

624
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 8: of extradition, and from the time that you have, you know,

625
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 8: a suspect in custody, and so that's exactly as you said,

626
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 8: that's in play now. Simple extradition and YPD detectives will

627
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 8: take them.

628
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 4: I don't know that he'll object.

629
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 8: It doesn't make any sense to it just prolongs the

630
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 8: process and they bring them.

631
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: To New York. Here's a technical legal term. I don't

632
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: know if they taught you this at your law school,

633
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: but a lot of times in extradition hearings you run

634
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: into a world class a whole and they just won't

635
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: agree to extradition then rather languish. In this case, Pennsylvania

636
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: CI in Huntington as opposed to facing the music in

637
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: New York it's going to happen. All you have to

638
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: do is get a fingerprint and go. He is not

639
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: telling us, but this is Luigi Mangioni, and he is

640
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: the Luigi Maanngioni in this warrant. That's a solid is

641
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: this two questions? But sometimes because the defendant is an

642
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: a whole technical legal term, they won't agree. So you

643
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: just send them back to the zielta. You get the fingerprint,

644
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: and you say, enjoy your stale.

645
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 2: Sandwich exactly, And you're sitting County not assigned a prison

646
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: cell in a group setting.

647
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 8: At that point, take the extradition and deal with the

648
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 8: notoriety and at least perhaps you'll have your own cell

649
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 8: instead of being in a group.

650
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: It's about all he's got.

651
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: Looking forward to him.

652
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: You are hearing Jason Oshins, who has handled many, many

653
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: extradition hearings, but now listening to Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.

654
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: We're going to have to work that out with the

655
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: Manhattan District Attorney's office in Altuna, Pennsylvania. He's going to

656
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: be facing gun charges there, and at some point we'll

657
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 3: work out through extradition to bring him back to New

658
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: York to face charges here. Working with the Manhattan District

659
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: Attorney's Office.

660
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 15: Luigi Mangoni has been ordered held without bail and does

661
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 15: not enter a plea. In his first court appearance in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania,

662
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 15: Manjoni is escorted to his preliminary arrayment in handcuffs, with

663
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 15: multiple police officers from different departments walking with him, as

664
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 15: he is facing five charges, including one fellony kount of

665
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 15: forgery and one fella he kind of carrying a firearm

666
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 15: without a license. Manjoni is the loan person of interest

667
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 15: in the brazen murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson

668
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 15: in Manhattan last week, but he's not charged with that crime.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure defense attorney Jason Ohs doesn't want to hear this,

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00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: but Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor forensics. He stated,

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00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: very plainly, Hey, you know what, I respect the FBI.

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00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: You guys have done so much for our country. Let

673
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: me just save you some time. I acted alone. He's

674
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: perfectly coherent. So, Joe Scott, here's my question. What do

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00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: you think will be the single most important evidence in

676
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: this case? And I'm guessing it's going to be forensics.

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00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 10: Yeah, it will be, But I think maybe in a

678
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 10: different area. It's going to be electronic forensics. Let's think

679
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 10: about what we have. He's going to be tracked moving

680
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 10: along now that we know who this guy is, his

681
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 10: movements on the bus line, did he have multiple phones?

682
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 10: Did he have an actual phone that had his name

683
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 10: attached to it as well as a burner phone that

684
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 10: maybe was tracked concurrently with the burner phone. Also, you know,

685
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 10: we haven't talked a lot about Brian Thompson here. What

686
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 10: did this guy do to stalk him? You know, we

687
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 10: go back to this idea that he knew he was

688
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 10: in Manhattan, that he knew he was at this meeting.

689
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 10: Is his history digital history going to have a big

690
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 10: reveal about this relative to him following him day to day?

691
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 10: Did he ever actually make any trips to Minneapolis to

692
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 10: kind of inspect that area. That's going to be a

693
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 10: big part of this is putting all of this together.

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00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 10: I think that, yeah, the ballistics are unique, I think

695
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 10: if you can even attach it, But I think one

696
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 10: of the biggest, biggest pieces of evidence here is all

697
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 10: of this electronic data that's going to come into play.

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00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 10: And also, don't forget this, Nancy, he has a real

699
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 10: understanding and a real love for Ai. We've seen this

700
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 10: throughout throughout his social media post the life that he lived,

701
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 10: his bachelor's and master's degree in computer science. H the

702
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 10: three D ghost gun. You know, he's familiar with that.

703
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 10: That's a big part of new technology and just being

704
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 10: able to generate false IDs, all of that along the

705
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 10: way is going to be a big, big dagger in

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00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 10: the heart for him.

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00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. You know what, let me just give you

708
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: an example.

709
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 1: The ghost gun, fore's sake, is the sing most important

710
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. I tie it with a fingerprint.

711
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 7: The single most important piece of evidence to me is

712
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 7: we've got him on freaking video commit murder. Everything else

713
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 7: is going to be tied to it. The gun, the clothing, fingerprint,

714
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 7: everything else is coming DNA.

715
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Single, single, single most important piece video and quickly to

716
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: Hermania Rodriguez Dailymail dot Com. What happens now, we're just

717
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: waiting on the extradition hearing.

718
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: Correct.

719
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 4: So he's supposed to appear in court again in Pennsylvania today,

720
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: and now the process of extradition moves along. Charges have

721
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 4: already been filed in New York, so we don't have

722
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 4: to wait for him to be physically in New York

723
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 4: for that. But now that process starts and we are

724
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 4: yet to hear what his defense is going to be.

725
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 4: Is he going to oppose extradition as you mentioned, and

726
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 4: that's what's going to start now the legal process and

727
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 4: all this evidence is going to emerge.

728
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: Tonight we honor two American heroes. Number one, the so

729
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: called elderly patron having his or her coffee at a McDonald's,

730
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: just like every single morning, who took it upon themselves,

731
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: whether they knew it or not, to risk their.

732
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: Lives to catch an alleged killer.

733
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: We discussed earlier how very often arrests go sideways, much

734
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: less the arrest of a violent criminal who's carrying a

735
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: loaded ghost gun. And also hero Tyler fry A beat Cup,

736
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: a patrol officer in Altoona PD. He knew he was

737
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: going to apprehend the health boss assassin as he has

738
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: been called. Did he shrink back, No, he strode in

739
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: and he made the arrest.

740
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 2: By the book. If it weren't for.

741
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: Those two individuals, Brian Thompson's two boys may never have answers,

742
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: but tonight they do. Thank you to that patron at

743
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: McDonald's and to patrol Officer Tyler Frye.

744
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 2: We wait for justice. Two unfold.

745
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,