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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode one nine and

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Speaker 1: today the show we were joined by one of the

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Speaker 1: most successful d I Y deer hunters in my home

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Speaker 1: state of Michigan and across the country, John Eberhart, and

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Speaker 1: in this episode we dive deeper than ever into his

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Speaker 1: secrets for hunting tough to kill big bucks. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick Gear.

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Speaker 1: And today in the show, we've got a repeat guest,

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Speaker 1: John Eberhart. And you've probably heard me say it before.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear me say it again later in this interview.

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Speaker 1: But John was one of the most influential people in

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Speaker 1: my evolution as a deer hunter. About a decade ago,

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Speaker 1: I read his book Precision Bow Hunting, and it completely

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Speaker 1: turned how I hunt and how I think about hunting

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Speaker 1: upside down. From that point, for my level of success

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Speaker 1: has increased exponentially. So if you were not familiar with John,

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Speaker 1: he's an outdoor writer, frequently published and outlets like Deer

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Speaker 1: and Deer Hunting magazine, and he's the author of three books,

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Speaker 1: including the aforementioned Precision Bow Hunting, Bow Hunting I Think

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Speaker 1: It's Bow Hunting Pressured white Tails, and Bow Hunting white

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Speaker 1: Tails of Eberhart Way and John specializes in sharing tactics

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Speaker 1: and strategies for hunting mature white tail bucks in heavily

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Speaker 1: pressured areas, these types of places where deer are particularly

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Speaker 1: spooky and hard to hunt because of the constant presence

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Speaker 1: of other hunters. If you hunt in an area like this,

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Speaker 1: John's advice is golden. But even if you hunt in

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Speaker 1: a less hunted area, the level of detail and focus

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Speaker 1: that John puts into his hunting and tactics it can

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Speaker 1: be applied just as successfully and probably probably even more

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Speaker 1: so in lesser pressured regions. I've always said that if

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Speaker 1: you can find success in a heavily pressured hunting area

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Speaker 1: and perfect the tactics for those deer, and then apply

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Speaker 1: those tactics to lesser hunted areas, you know you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna be an absolute terror to those unexpecting deer. So

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Speaker 1: today that's exactly what we're gonna try to do, where

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Speaker 1: you're going to arm you with the strategies and tactics

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Speaker 1: to finally wrap a tag around the biggest, baddest, oldest

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Speaker 1: buck in your area, whether that's in Iowa or Michigan,

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Speaker 1: or Georgia or Indiana or anywhere in between. And if

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard our first episode of John, I would

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Speaker 1: highly recommend you listen to that one too. It's episode

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Speaker 1: number sixty two, I believe, and we cover a lot

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Speaker 1: of great material in that discussion, and today that we

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Speaker 1: try to head into new territory. We discussed some very

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Speaker 1: different details and subjects and then dive into specific examples

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Speaker 1: of some of John's hunts to illustrate the concepts that

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Speaker 1: led to his success. So that's the plan for today.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about this one. It is a really really

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Speaker 1: good episode, I think, in my possibly biased opinion. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that, we do not have my

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Speaker 1: coach Dan along with us for this one. So in

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Speaker 1: this little extra time we have, I want to give

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Speaker 1: you a bit of homework to take care of after

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Speaker 1: you listen to this one. Um. On this same day

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Speaker 1: that we published the episode you're listening to right now,

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Speaker 1: I also published a new episode of my other podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Wild Podcast, and that episode is a particularly interesting

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Speaker 1: one as well as it features Mark Dury. You know,

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Speaker 1: we all know Mark Jury, the mad Scientists of Drew Outdoors,

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Speaker 1: and it features Mark discussing aggressive hunting tactics for mature bucks,

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Speaker 1: including an in depth analysis of his hunt and thought

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Speaker 1: process while targeting a giant buck in two thousand and sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And I think this conversation with Mark on the Wild

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Speaker 1: podcast and the conversation you're gonna here today with John

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Speaker 1: they kind of provide an interesting illustration of how different

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Speaker 1: tactics and philosophies can work in different areas and circumstances.

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Speaker 1: I mean, both Mark and John have had a tremendous

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Speaker 1: level of success, and they both put in a ton

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Speaker 1: of work into those hunting efforts. You know, I admire

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Speaker 1: in respect both of these guys and have learned so

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Speaker 1: much from the two of them. But I bring this

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Speaker 1: up because I think it's important for for all of

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Speaker 1: us hunters really to open our minds to as many

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Speaker 1: different concepts and the ideas as possible. You know, whether

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Speaker 1: it be from someone like Mark hunting a carefully managed

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Speaker 1: farm in Iowa, or from someone like John hunting small

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Speaker 1: public and private pieces in Michigan, taking all these things

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Speaker 1: into taking them all in and filtering through these new

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Speaker 1: ideas to find what sticks, what doesn't, and what could

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Speaker 1: be applied to your own situation where you hunt. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you listen to both of these conversations,

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna hear some very different ideas, but

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Speaker 1: you're also going to notice some underlying currents of consistency

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Speaker 1: despite those very different circumstances, and that that's pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: to me. I'd encourage you to to chew on those

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Speaker 1: differences and similarities, and I think if you do that,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna find a few things you can apply to

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Speaker 1: your own hunting style and circumstances and methodology. I think

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Speaker 1: it's safe to say that we all can grows hunters,

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Speaker 1: no no doubt about that. And I think it's important

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Speaker 1: that we not get too locked into only considering and

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Speaker 1: hearing advice from people just like us. You know, new

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Speaker 1: and different perspectives are so key, and that's I think

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Speaker 1: that's true in life and in hunting. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to deer hunting, opening yourself to these new ideas

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Speaker 1: and then properly filtering and thinking about how they may

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Speaker 1: or may not apply to your own hunting. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the very most important skills that you can play

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Speaker 1: to improve your success in the field. So all this

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Speaker 1: to say, when you finish this one, go download episode

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Speaker 1: number forty one of the Wild Podcast with Mark Dury,

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Speaker 1: Compare and contrast these ideas, do some thinking, and I

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Speaker 1: bet you'll find some ideas from both of these cocks

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Speaker 1: that can help you this upcoming season. I know we

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Speaker 1: certainly have. So with that long and winding introduction out

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Speaker 1: of the way, let's take a quick break to think

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Speaker 1: our partners at Sick of Gear and today we've got

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Speaker 1: an interesting Sick of story from our producer Spencer new

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Speaker 1: Hearth as he throws things back to a turkey hunt

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Speaker 1: of his from this past spring. For this week's Sitka story,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about my final turkey haunt of this

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Speaker 1: last spring that took place in the last week of

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Speaker 1: April in South Dakota's Black Hills. Now, the Black Hills

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Speaker 1: are known for a couple of things, one of them

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Speaker 1: being their Merriam's turkeys, another one being there very volatile

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Speaker 1: weather and the reason for that is they have a

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Speaker 1: total mix of of different climates, like they have the

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Speaker 1: Subarctic climate in one area like that of Alaska, and

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Speaker 1: then they have a subtropic climate in another area like

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Speaker 1: that of Florida, so planning a hunt there can be

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Speaker 1: very difficult. I went out there scouting the day before

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Speaker 1: and it was like mid seventies, beautiful weather, and the

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Speaker 1: following day we got about eight inches of snow and

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Speaker 1: the weather, the temperature was down in the teens. So

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Speaker 1: it totally changed up what the turkeys were doing, and

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Speaker 1: it totally changed up what I was doing now. On

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Speaker 1: that haunt, I was really struggling to not only fine birds,

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Speaker 1: but even get an idea of where they were at all.

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Speaker 1: My scouting was thrown out the window because of the

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Speaker 1: blizzard and the birds were now in survival mode, So

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Speaker 1: rather than making your typical turkey setups and calling them

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Speaker 1: in um, I had to just go after them and

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Speaker 1: put a lot of miles on my boots that day,

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Speaker 1: hoping to just come across flocks of birds, And that

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Speaker 1: finally happened in the late afternoon when I cut the

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Speaker 1: tracks that were crossing a snowy gravel road, and so

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Speaker 1: the tracks were pretty small, and I followed them with

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Speaker 1: hopes that it was at least a jake and when

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Speaker 1: I got up on the tracks, I was bummed to

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Speaker 1: find that it was a hen until that hen turned

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Speaker 1: and showed me that she had a beard down South Dakota.

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Speaker 1: It so you got to take any bearded turkey with

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Speaker 1: a male turkey tag, And so I was really excited,

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Speaker 1: childered my gun and dropped her with one concluding shot. Now,

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Speaker 1: on that hunt, I was wearing Sitka's Stratus system, which

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Speaker 1: worked out really well because the day before and I

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Speaker 1: was scouting, it was perfect as a standalone set up,

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Speaker 1: and the following day when the blizzard came, I was

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Speaker 1: able to layer with it and keep on hunting. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like to create a Sitka story of your own,

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Speaker 1: or to learn more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit

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Speaker 1: sitka gear dot com. Alright here with us now on

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Speaker 1: the line is John Eberhart. Thanks for joining us back

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Speaker 1: on the show again. John. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: the offer to come on the show. You guys have

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Speaker 1: a very popular show and definitely looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I um, you know, we were just

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Speaker 1: talking a second ago before we started recording, and I've

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Speaker 1: said this on the podcast several times in the past,

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Speaker 1: but not to um to build you up too much,

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Speaker 1: but you really are one of the most influential people

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Speaker 1: on my hunting journey. UM. Your books early on, UM

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Speaker 1: really kind of helped shape my focus areas and things

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Speaker 1: that really took me from that guy who could maybe

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Speaker 1: shoot a four corn buck to a guy that can

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Speaker 1: maybe shoot him acture bucks. So I gotta thank you

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Speaker 1: for that, and then I just guess I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show. Well, thank you very much, Mark, I,

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. That's always been my goal is

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Speaker 1: to help hunters be more successful because if you're a

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Speaker 1: passionate deer hunter and you're successful at it, killimure books.

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Speaker 1: It kind of almost changes your life, how you interact

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Speaker 1: with people, how other hunters interact with you, how you

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Speaker 1: deal with your family during your season. It's just the

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Speaker 1: life changing experience. It definitely definitely isn't and our and

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Speaker 1: our wives might say a consuming life experience as well.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so, so we had you on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I think it was two years ago now, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe it's been that long ago. UM, But for those

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Speaker 1: you know, we introduced you before we got you on,

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Speaker 1: But just for those who aren't familiar. Can you give

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Speaker 1: us like the Johnnyberhart one oh one, Like how would

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Speaker 1: you introduce yourself to other deer hunters. I'd probably have

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Speaker 1: to give myself a little bit of a bio, like

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Speaker 1: when I'm doing seminars in the Midwest to expose Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty six, have been bowing fifty three years. I've

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Speaker 1: got thirty bucks in the Michigan record book with a bow.

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Speaker 1: Uh that's off nineteen different properties public land and knock

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Speaker 1: on doors exclusively and no less don't own anything you

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Speaker 1: don't not over bait and end up taking one out

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Speaker 1: of state trips and I've killed nineteen bucks on those

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Speaker 1: p and y bucks on those trips in those game

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Speaker 1: off thirteen different properties in five different states. I love

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Speaker 1: the fact that you've got all the data you quantify

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Speaker 1: very well. That's awesome. Most people don't keep track of that,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's it's really interesting to hear that and

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Speaker 1: the numbers that are impressive, no doubt about that. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious you weren't always John Eberhardt the big buck Slayer, though,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, like, what was that evolution like for you?

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Speaker 1: When you're just getting into it because I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: early on, I think I remember chatting with you once

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Speaker 1: and you said you you first really got an archery

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Speaker 1: and then slowly made your way into hunting deer and

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Speaker 1: then eventually old or dear um. But what was that

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Speaker 1: like for you? Was that really challenging? And at what

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Speaker 1: point did that light switch flip where you started being

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Speaker 1: able to kill these these older, bigger deer. I've always

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Speaker 1: been a person that likes to be challenged. I do

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things like fish, I play pool,

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Speaker 1: like golf. I do a lot of different things. And

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Speaker 1: when I got into bow hunting, I you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: back then I had no mentors, I had nobody in

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Speaker 1: my family hunted. So I took it on by myself.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I just started off trying to shoot

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Speaker 1: anything and typically and I shot a couple of fons

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Speaker 1: and I'm going back into the early sixties and shot uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, then a doze. And then it got to

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Speaker 1: the point where I kind of targeted subordinate year and

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Speaker 1: a half old bucks and was getting pretty good at that.

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Speaker 1: And it was just a succession. The better, the better

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Speaker 1: I got, the more depth I became, the higher I

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Speaker 1: set my goals, and it got to the point where

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Speaker 1: in the mid seventies, um, I was pretty good at

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Speaker 1: killing mature buck bucks in the areas that I was

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Speaker 1: hunting so um And back then Michigan, I live in

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Speaker 1: Michigan and it had a million gun hunters and there

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Speaker 1: was no q DM, there was no you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: killed anything that had legal three inch spikes, so you know,

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Speaker 1: two and a half year old bucks were rare. Three

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Speaker 1: and a half year olds were almost non existent. So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until probably the mid eighties into the early

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Speaker 1: nineties when a lot of people started managing and passing

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Speaker 1: up buck that I really started totally concentrating on three

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Speaker 1: and a half and four and half and year old

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Speaker 1: and older bucks and became very proficient that I didn't

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Speaker 1: read anything anybody else wrote. I just did everything on

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Speaker 1: my own. I still did this day. I've never read

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Speaker 1: anybody's books. I don't read hunting articles, I don't watch

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Speaker 1: TV shows. I don't know who most hunting personalities are.

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Speaker 1: And it's just all been kind of self duck taught,

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Speaker 1: and it's just been a competitive of deal with me.

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Speaker 1: I just like to compete with myself and keep pushing

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Speaker 1: myself to do the best I can do. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of where its went. So I think something you said

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Speaker 1: there is is a good point to emphasize for people.

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Speaker 1: Increate me if I'm wrong here, But it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you started hunting in the sixties and it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: the mid eighties that you were consistently killing mature bucks.

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Speaker 1: And by bringing up I just I mean to point

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Speaker 1: out that it takes time, right, It's not something that

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Speaker 1: can just happen you start hunting right away, you're killing

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Speaker 1: mature bucks, right, It takes time to get to that point.

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Speaker 1: Market totally depends on your situation nowadays with the high

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Speaker 1: end leases and manage properties. You know, you know TV guys,

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Speaker 1: their wives can you know, because they're hunting such exclusive

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Speaker 1: properties with no competition, you know, their kids and wives

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Speaker 1: to go out and start killing monster bucks immediately because

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Speaker 1: they're hunting property with no competition. So I worked. I

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Speaker 1: you know, I hunted in areas, public lands and knock

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Speaker 1: on doors for free provision properties. I always had competition,

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Speaker 1: so I was working to separate myself from the other hunters.

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Speaker 1: So I was killing even in the mid mid to

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Speaker 1: late seventies, I was killing the biggest bucks the area

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Speaker 1: had to offer, which was typically a two and a

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Speaker 1: half year old, you know the fourteen, sixteen and eight

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Speaker 1: eight or ten point um. But then as time progressed

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Speaker 1: and people started passing up up bucks on regular hunting

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Speaker 1: properties you know ten acre acre for acre parcels and

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Speaker 1: public lands, then I started killing three and a half

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Speaker 1: and four and a half year olds because they existed

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Speaker 1: where I was hunting in the seventies, they rarely existed

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Speaker 1: because there's just so many gun hunters. They just kept

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Speaker 1: everything mowed down. Um So, so I I guess I

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Speaker 1: progressed to be proficient at killing mature bucks because of

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Speaker 1: where I hunted. Today is different. You know, if somebody

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Speaker 1: buys a big please is a big piece of property

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Speaker 1: and micromanages that, you know they can go out and

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Speaker 1: kill mature bucks relatively quickly because it doesn't take a

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Speaker 1: lot of experience and knowledge because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: mature bucks in the area, because they don't have any competitions.

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Speaker 1: So that needs to be like the TV guys for instance,

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Speaker 1: most TV guys, if they had to get hunt in

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Speaker 1: a pressured area, they wouldn't have a cool word to

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Speaker 1: start right, Very very different circumstances, that's for sure, totally

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Speaker 1: so okay, So what about this for someone that's in

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Speaker 1: a similar situation to you, that just hunts private land

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Speaker 1: by permission or public do you think it's easier or

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Speaker 1: harder now for someone today in that situation versus you know,

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, maybe twenty years ago, harder or easier

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Speaker 1: to kill deer, or harder or easily already kill mature

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Speaker 1: deer to kill mature deer in the same type of

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Speaker 1: circumstances that you're talking about. I think it's actually easier.

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Speaker 1: I think it's easier nowadays because I don't care where

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Speaker 1: you're at in this country anymore. Even you know, whether

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Speaker 1: you're in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New York where

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Speaker 1: there's extreme hunting pressure, there's a there's a higher percentage

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Speaker 1: of hunters now that are not happy shooting year in

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Speaker 1: half hold bucks, and a lot of them will shoot

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Speaker 1: two and a half year old bucks, and some of

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Speaker 1: them will even pass up to an a half and

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Speaker 1: kill three and a half. So there are more bucks

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Speaker 1: even on public lands that are surviving to two and

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Speaker 1: a half, three and a half and even maybe four

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Speaker 1: and a half years old in their quarterback in the

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Speaker 1: sixties and the seventies point, they just didn't heavily hunted

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Speaker 1: public lands that they just didn't exist because everybody was

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Speaker 1: trying to kill any legal antword buck. Yeah. What do

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Speaker 1: you see in regards to pressure increasing in that time

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Speaker 1: from from like the nineties till now on private and public?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like the narrative a lot of

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Speaker 1: times that there's more and more people trying to get

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Speaker 1: access on fewer and fewer properties, um and maybe the

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Speaker 1: same on public Do you think have you seen that

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Speaker 1: to be the case in your own hunting or what

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Speaker 1: do you think? Uh? Yeah? And I also see a

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Speaker 1: lot of people just giving up because there's so much

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Speaker 1: emphasis now on trophy bucks and so many people now

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Speaker 1: are buying up properties or leasing large parcels of properties

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Speaker 1: keeping everybody off. It's it's extremely hard to get hunting

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Speaker 1: permission anymore. So you know, it's pushing people to public lands.

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Speaker 1: In some public lands, like in southern Michigan, for instance,

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Speaker 1: where there's egg and a lot of huge pop general population,

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Speaker 1: there's so much hunting pressure that people hunt there a

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Speaker 1: few times, and a lot of people just if they're

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Speaker 1: not that passionate about it. They just stopped out of

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Speaker 1: hunting altogether. Our our gun hunting numbers in Michigan have

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Speaker 1: went from a million back in the seventies to like

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Speaker 1: seven thousand now. So the gun hunting, the gun hunting

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Speaker 1: numbers have dwindled, and archery numbers have came up. Thought,

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Speaker 1: and especially now that a lot of gun hunters are

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Speaker 1: converting to the crossbows. What's the latest number you've seen

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Speaker 1: there for archery hunters in Michigan About three. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of competition in the woods out there, force, isn't

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Speaker 1: there absolutely? Yeah, keeps us on our toes, I guess, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and that's happening kind of everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I think. You know, last couple of a a few years,

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Speaker 1: I've struggled to getting a permit for Kansas because Kansas

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Speaker 1: now allows full inclusion crossbow hunters to apply for the

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Speaker 1: same archery tags as a as a bowl hunter. So

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Speaker 1: they didn't raise the amount of permits available, but the

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Speaker 1: number of applications coming in are a lot higher, So

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Speaker 1: your odds getting drawn are like a lot smaller. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I actually, um, I was expecting to draw my Iowa

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Speaker 1: tag this year, and I got with the number of

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Speaker 1: points I had. I'd been able to draw this tag

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Speaker 1: in the past twice, so I thought this would be,

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Speaker 1: you know, a gimme this year, but did not get

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Speaker 1: it this year. So I think that you said that

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Speaker 1: there's more non residents going in some of these places

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Speaker 1: now than ever probably and more like you said, the

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Speaker 1: crossbow influx. And I mean, I think it's a good

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Speaker 1: thing that people are given, you know, archery, hunting a

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Speaker 1: shot and experiencing you know how much fun it is.

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Speaker 1: But it does make for some challenges too. Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: And I believe I was probably one of the few

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Speaker 1: dates that has not allowed full inclusion crossbow yet. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they have one of the very few. I

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Speaker 1: may be mistaken, but I don't think they. Okay, most

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Speaker 1: areas in Iowa does take three preference points to get drawn,

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Speaker 1: so you get drawn every four years. Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: definitely one of those spots that you need to be patient,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. Yes, very very true. So before we

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Speaker 1: go any further, um, and we're gonna go down all

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Speaker 1: sorts of warmholes here, John, because I've got about seventy

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Speaker 1: two different questions I'd like to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: pepper you with everything I can possibly think of here

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Speaker 1: Before we get to that, though, UM, I got wind

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Speaker 1: of the fact that you've got a new project going on.

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Speaker 1: Um kind of related to some of the things where

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here today. Can you kind of feel

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Speaker 1: us in on that real quick? Yes I can. I'm

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Speaker 1: starting a new venture. It's called Eberhart's White Tailed Workshops,

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Speaker 1: and I'm also scouting properties, travel scouting to scout properties

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Speaker 1: and kind of what's different about what I'm doing. You know,

378
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys that do land management scouting

379
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Speaker 1: for people, tell more to hinge cut and put food

380
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Speaker 1: plots and put wind rows and berms to funnel deer

381
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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But uh, you know they're they're

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Speaker 1: speaking to a very limited audience of people at own

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Speaker 1: and control their own property. You know, what I'm doing

384
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Speaker 1: is whether you hunt public land or ten acres or

385
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Speaker 1: uh you've you own forty acres or your leaf a

386
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Speaker 1: hundred acres, doesn't matter what you're situation, or you're strictly

387
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Speaker 1: a travel hunter, you travel out of state a lot,

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Speaker 1: no matter the situation. My workshops are designed to teach

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Speaker 1: people how to actually hunt in other words, Um, it's

390
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: they're gonna be to day events. One's going to be

391
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Speaker 1: in field on a piece of property. I have free

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Speaker 1: permission to hunt. It's seventy acres, but it's only thirty

393
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Speaker 1: seven acres of huntable land, the rests and crops. And

394
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Speaker 1: I've hunted it for nine years and I'm taking five

395
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Speaker 1: five book bucks off it. And there's two other guys

396
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Speaker 1: that hunt the same property and they've punted it for

397
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Speaker 1: twenty plus years and they've never taken a book buck

398
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Speaker 1: off it. So I've got fourteen locations on this property

399
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: and basically gonna walk everybody on the in field day

400
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: through the locations and show them how I set up

401
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 1: a location. Why this location may only have one shooting lane.

402
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: Why this location is strictly a morning spot, this one

403
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: strictly an evening spot, this one is strictly a rut spot.

404
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: Why this entry route and this exit route per location,

405
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: because a lot of the may have different entry and

406
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: exit routes. And basically, you know, showing people how I

407
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: set stuff up in and I think that would help

408
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: people a lot more than going out and scouting their property,

409
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Speaker 1: because when you scout somebody's property, you were basically telling

410
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Speaker 1: them what they're showing them, what they may need to

411
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: do on that particular given piece of property. Whereas when

412
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Speaker 1: you look at a situation where you're looking at fourteen

413
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Speaker 1: different locations and each location is set up for a

414
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: very specific reason in time of season and time of day,

415
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: you get a lot better overview of what to look

416
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Speaker 1: for no matter where you go hunting. And that's really

417
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Speaker 1: important because a lot of people don't just hunt one property.

418
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Speaker 1: They hunt multiple properties, and they travel on and it's

419
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Speaker 1: really nice to be able to go out of state

420
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Speaker 1: and you know, be able to set up on the

421
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Speaker 1: best the best bucks in the area and have an

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Speaker 1: awesome chance of killing one in a one week period. Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So these workshops, when are they starting? Where they at?

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Speaker 1: How do we how do we learn more? Uh? On

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Speaker 1: my website, I have a web I just revamped my

426
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: website cost me a lot of money. So so it's

427
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Speaker 1: the website is www dot d e e r heisen

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Speaker 1: j o h N dot net or ww dot eber

429
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Speaker 1: Hearts white Tail Workshops dot com or if anybody just

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00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: googled my name, I'm sure that they would come up.

431
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: And the website goes the website has the workshops, explanation

432
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: of what the workshops are um, and then the scouting properties.

433
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: It has testimonials from industry industry professionals like I've got

434
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: testimonials on there from the executive director of the Pope

435
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: and Young Club, uh, the editor in chief Nian Schmidt

436
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: of Deer and Deer Hunting, Tom Nelson from American Archer.

437
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: And these are all very good, awesome testimonials that I'm

438
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,479
Speaker 1: pretty proud that they gave them to me. And I

439
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: got a ton of hunter testimonials from people that have

440
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: read my books or watched my instructional DVDs over the years. Great,

441
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: And are these coming up the summer or this fall

442
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 1: or oh yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, the we're gonna I'm

443
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: gonna have four of them and not we this is

444
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: totally a me deal. The first one is going to

445
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: be July. These are Saturday Sundays. Uh, second one will

446
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: be July twelve thirteen, or I'm sorry, August August twelve

447
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: and thirteen, and then the third one will be August

448
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: nineteen and twenty, and the fourth one will be September four.

449
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: So I've got four of them this year, and then

450
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: I will probably have more next year and during the postseason,

451
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: which would be February, February, March in April. It sounds

452
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: sounds like an awesome event. And are these taking place

453
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: somewhere in mid Michigan? Is that right? Yes? The yeah.

454
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: I actually the thirty seven acres is in Edmore. And

455
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: then the second day, which will be the seminar day,

456
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: is going to be a Jay Sporting Goods which is

457
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: in Claire, Michigan, which is the largest sporting goods store

458
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: in the state. And they're going to be given out

459
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: all the attendees a fift discount uh voluture for anything

460
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: they buy over fifty dollars. And they actually have a

461
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: seminar room with nice office chairs, so it'll be a

462
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: very comfortable seminar. Tons of stuff. I'll have all my

463
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: scouting gear and they have my There's gonna be a

464
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: big portion of this will be on sunt control because

465
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: I'm a huge, huge advocate of activated carbon and a

466
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: total sunt control regiment. I don't pay any attention to

467
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: wind direction ever, a right. I remember we talked about

468
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: that last time, and that that was definitely even a

469
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: shocker for me, even though I've read your work in

470
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: the past, um you have, You've had a lot of

471
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: confidence in your sun control. I don't get winded. I

472
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: can have dear cross my entry routes have deer done wind.

473
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: I have deer donet wind me all the time because

474
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: I hunt my locations based on the sign at the time.

475
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: I don't wait for the proper wind. I spent years

476
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: and years hunting the wind for thirty five seasons, and

477
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: there was certain rock phase locations. I never got to

478
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: hunt that strictly because on my day's off work, I

479
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: didn't have the right wind direction. And that's no longer

480
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: the case. If you can beat the wind, you've made

481
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: a big, big, huge difference in your hunting hunting success.

482
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, So so before we go too far

483
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: down that road, I want to rewind a little bit

484
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: um you mentioned in your Seminaris're gonna be talking about

485
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: some of your scouting gear and some different things like that.

486
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: And right now when we're talking right this is early July. UM.

487
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: So at this time of year, John, what are you doing,

488
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: if anything, to get ready for the upcoming season? Is there?

489
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: Are you still doing any scouting or still doing any

490
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: stand preppers? All that done post season already that is

491
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: done of all my scouting and the location preparation is

492
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: done by the end of April, and that's no different

493
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: this year. Uh So, basically on this property that we're

494
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: going to be doing these workshops on, I'm gonna totally

495
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: trash amount. It's gonna definitely affect my early season hunting,

496
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: but I'm willing to g that up. So to answer

497
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: your question, all my locations are prepped. I'm ready for season.

498
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm always ready for season by the end of April.

499
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: But I do what I call speed touring. In other words,

500
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: I may go into season with, you know, on three

501
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: different pieces of property, thirty plus locations prepared and ready

502
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: to hunt, and I hunt out of the saddle, so

503
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: I can hunt any one of them at any point

504
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: in time. So let's say let's say ten of those

505
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: locations are early season locations. In other words, they are

506
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: they are located where there may be an apple tree

507
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of perimeter security cover or a white

508
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: oak tree, you know, with perimeter security cover and transition

509
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: security cover from a betting area to it. So just

510
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: prior to season, usually after September, because I know all

511
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: the big bucks are rubbed out by usually the fifth

512
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: September up here in Michigan, all the big your bucks,

513
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: so there's gonna be Buck signed. So after September fift

514
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: I'll do a speed tour wearing my total suntlock suit

515
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: and boots and you know, carbon backpack if I'm carrying

516
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: anything in backpack, and I'll do a speed tour of

517
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: all my early season locations, which are typically feeding locations

518
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: in isolated feeding areas. And if I see that, obviously,

519
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: if I prep something in postseason at an apple tree

520
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: or white oak, I have no clue if it's gonna

521
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: have apples or eggcorns. So during the speed tour, I

522
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: see if they do actually are producing master fruit, and

523
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: if they are by the September fift they're going to

524
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: have some semblance of Buck signing around him in the

525
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: former rubs. And typically apple trees if they're dropping apples,

526
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: will have scrapes. So I do I do an early

527
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: preseason speed tour, but it's not a scouting tour. I'm

528
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: not repreparing any locations. I'm just checking them to see

529
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: if they're going to be suitable for early season hunting locations. Okay,

530
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: so can you elaborate on a little bit. So when

531
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: don't you actually is it like Nmber eighteenth or something.

532
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: Is there like a few daytime frame when you try

533
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: and knock out all these speed tours or are you

534
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: waiting on a specific set of conditions? Are you do

535
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: you wait for a windy day or rainy day or

536
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: anything that maybe lessons the impact you have? Is there

537
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: anything as far as specifics when it comes to doing

538
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: those speed tours? Man Mark, I can tell you read

539
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: my book, Yes, I definitely do. I wait. Obviously there's

540
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: a two week window in there because our season opens

541
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: October one, and if I can look forward on the

542
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: weather and see that there's going to be a day

543
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: that is going to be raining, a hard rain or

544
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: a really windy day, yes, those are the days that

545
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: I will do those speed tours because it rain or

546
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: hard winds will not only dissipate your noise, it will

547
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: dissipate your any residual odor you might have left. Because

548
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: a lot of times when you go in there and

549
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: let's say you prep the spot you know in April

550
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and it said at an apple tree, and you know

551
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: there's there's typically something you may have to do, you know,

552
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: some new growth that maybe you know, encumbering your shooting

553
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: lane or something that you may have to trim out

554
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: so so it knocks your noise down, and if you

555
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: do leave any trace elements of human odor, it will

556
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: also you know, knock that down as well. Would it

557
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: be safe to say that most of your early season

558
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: locations are also places that are not going to require

559
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: you go busting deep into the core of a property

560
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: through betting areas. Absolutely, yes, I hunt within betting areas.

561
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I think anybody that doesn't hunt within betting areas if

562
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: they don't own a lot of piece a lot of property,

563
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: and then the deer can leave their betting area during

564
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: rough phases, which is usually gun seasons, and get shot

565
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: on board and property. I think people that don't hunt

566
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: within their betting areas and do it smartly are making

567
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: a huge mistake. But no, I do not scout within

568
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: my betting areas during that speed tour. My betting areas

569
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: are all set up postseason and I don't go in

570
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: them until I have a bow in my hand and

571
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: I'm actually physically hunting. Yeah, that's what I assumed. It

572
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: seems like if you're going to do these very last

573
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: minute scouting sessions. It has to be precision, it has

574
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: to be low impact. Um Because to your point, anything

575
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: at least, you know, from my perspective, I've always thought,

576
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, after at the beginning of September, I'm so

577
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: so paranoid by any type of impact within those areas. UM.

578
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: So you gotta be smart about it, right, Absolutely in Michigan,

579
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: and I've shot bucks in Missouri and Kansas and Iowa

580
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: and Ohio, and in Michigan, anytime you walk, even preseason

581
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 1: on the property, it's like walking on eggshells. It takes

582
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: such a minute amount of anything to turn them a

583
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: jure buck nocturnal because there's so many hunters hunting them

584
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: during your season, and they don't know you're scouting. They

585
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: don't know you're just out there looking. They view your

586
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: your presence as a threat to their existence, and they

587
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: turn nocturnal until obviously they are testesterone testosterone levels rise

588
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: and they start thinking with other body parts than their brain.

589
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: And that's when your opportunities come. And that's when I

590
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: hunt within the bedding areas is during the pre rot

591
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: and rout phase lokay rough phase time frames. I don't

592
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: hunt them until the rough phases. Yeah, that that was

593
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: one of That's one of the key things that it

594
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: was transformational for me as a hunter is just understanding

595
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: the proper timing. Like growing up as a hunter, I

596
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: just hunted whenever, wherever. And I think it was really

597
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: your book Precision Bow Hunting. That was one of the

598
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: first things that really locked this or knocked this into

599
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: my head that you have to have certain places for

600
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: certain times of the year and you don't invade into

601
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: You're not pushing into your pre rut places on October one,

602
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be hunting necessarily where you're

603
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: one hunt m on October and you need to have

604
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: that timing right. And that's such a key concept I

605
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: think when you're trying to tire out those older bucks,

606
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: especially in high pressure areas, absolutely because a lot of

607
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: people don't don't even consider, well, Okay, I'm gonna go

608
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: hunting in this spot. It's October tenth, and you know what,

609
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: I hunted here. I saw some doz I didn't I

610
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: didn't get a shot, the big buck didn't come in.

611
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: I'll go on it again. Hey, at least I saw

612
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: some doughs. And then the next time they see, yeah,

613
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: fewer dos. You know, they saw four the first time,

614
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: now they see three, and then they on it again

615
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: and they see one, and then then on it again

616
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: and they see zero. What people don't understand is all

617
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: buck activity during the rut phases revolves around dough activity

618
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: at that location. So if you're hunting a destination location

619
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: and you you know, prior to the rut phases, and

620
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: you are altering dough traffic because you're hunting it, and

621
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden there's no dough traffic, well

622
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: then you quit hunting it. Then you go back to

623
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: hunt it during rud phases, you've totally altered that dough

624
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: traffic away from that location during daylight hours. So obviously,

625
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: if the buck traffic is revolving around the dough traffic,

626
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: there's no reason for them to be there because there's

627
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: no doughs there during daylight hours. It's such a simple analogy. Yeah,

628
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: but to your point, so many people are guilty of

629
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: not doing that because they want to hunt right, they

630
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: want to go to their best spots, and they're excited

631
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year and they go all

632
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: gung ho into these areas and uh, little do they

633
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: know that they're ruining it before they even really had

634
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: a good chance there. Absolutely, and in kind of hate

635
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: to knock on the TV guys again, but when you

636
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: watch the TV shows, all you know they well, well

637
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: we got this plan for hunting during the October wall,

638
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, when nobody else is killing deer. Yeah, we

639
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: know how to do that. Well, they're hunting micromanaged areas

640
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: where there's no other hunting competition. Those deer, you know,

641
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: they were they have grown to maturity without having any

642
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: hunter consequences. They don't target those bucks still are four

643
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: years old, so obviously their daylight movement habits have remained

644
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: somewhat intact because when they've had any hunter interactions, it

645
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: hasn't been any consequences for it. So you know, those

646
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: guys can kill bucks during that October lull because the

647
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: mature bucks are not as fearful of human intrusions as

648
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: they are in pressured areas and pressured areas, everything matters.

649
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: Everything has to be detail oriented. It's that important. Yeah, Yeah,

650
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: I think it's important for people when watching hunting TV.

651
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: You know, hey, it's all well and good if you

652
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: look at it as entertainment. It's fun, you know, you

653
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: can see big deer, and that's great, but realize that

654
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: in many cases these are just different circumstances than what

655
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: you may or may not have, and and just have

656
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: realistic expectations based on that, and then also realize how

657
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: you hunt will have to be different if you don't

658
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: have those same circumstances. I think more and more people

659
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: are starting to figure that out. I don't know, but um,

660
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: but it's an important thing to just to always remind

661
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: people because to your point earlier, when people start having

662
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: this expectation that every time they hunt they're supposed to

663
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: see a trophy buck, if that's the expectation you go

664
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: into your hunting season with and when the reality turns

665
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: out to be very different from that, like you said,

666
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: it can be pretty discouraging. And um, this is supposed

667
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: to be fun, you know. So I think if we

668
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: go in there with realistic expectations based on our circumstances,

669
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: based on where we're at, go out there and try

670
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: to hunt the best you can, but have a good

671
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: time with it and not get two worked up about

672
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: the fact that you didn't kill the two or something.

673
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: And I think if we if we go about it

674
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: with the mindset like that, I think people are really

675
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: gonna enjoy this activity a whole lot more and not,

676
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, not the other way. I you couldn't have

677
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: laid that out any better. Mark that was absolutely perfect,

678
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: you know what. I actually look at a lot of

679
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: TV guys and uh, I look at where they're from,

680
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know one that's from a state like

681
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: a p A or New York, or a Michigan or

682
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: a West Virginia that has any bucks in their record

683
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: book in their homes. Eight. They're killing lots of bucks

684
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: in Ohiowa, Oowa, and Kansas and Nebraska and the you know,

685
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: the Dakota is where it's relatively simple because they're so

686
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: doing many of them and there's no lightning pressure. But

687
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: they've got nothing in their credential background from their home state.

688
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: So to me, unless you can kill mature bucks in

689
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: a pressured state, um, I don't know. Kill credentials don't

690
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: don't really mean a whole lot to me. I think

691
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: that's a pretty crude way of putting it. But it's

692
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: a realistic way of putting it. And I love watching

693
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: the TV shows. I take them with a grain of

694
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: salt and like, just like you said they're they're fun

695
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: to watch, But those guys, I view them as entertainers

696
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: just like anything else. That's how they're making their living,

697
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: their entertaining hunters. Yeah, nothing nothing wrong with that, just different,

698
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with that at all. So okay, So speaking

699
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: of intrusion though, right, if we're if we're worried about

700
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: our intrusion and the pressure we're putting on our deer,

701
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: there probably are a lot of people. I'm guilty of

702
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: this myself. Actually, I still have some projects I'm doing

703
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: in the woods. Um so for people like me who

704
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: are not as prepared as you were and had things

705
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: done in April, if we're still hanging stands right now,

706
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: or maybe doing some quick scouting or something, how can

707
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: we do that in as best away as possible. What

708
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: types of things should be thinking about this time of

709
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: a year to keep that impact low? And also, you know,

710
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: I guess I guess what I'm trying to say also

711
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: is how do we keep it low? Impact low? But

712
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: then also what would you be doing in April that

713
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: we could be doing now in July? If you know

714
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: what I mean, Well, you know, July depends on the state.

715
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: I know some states open in September one. Some states

716
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: open mid September, you know, Michigan happens to be October one.

717
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: So even even right now, you've got one July August

718
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: in Michigan, you've got almost three months before seasons. So

719
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: if if you went out there and did a late

720
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, hail Mary, set a few stands and you've

721
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: got them done by the end of July, they still

722
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: have two months to calm down um and go back

723
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: on about their regular routines. That's a cool thing about

724
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: postseason scouting. You can scout your property. You can scout

725
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: properties every day from daylight till dark for a month straight.

726
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: You can spook every deer in the area out of

727
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: the out of the area, and it doesn't make any difference.

728
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 1: I got six months come back, and everything will be

729
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: hunky dory as normal by the time season starts. But

730
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: this time of year, when you go in and you scout,

731
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: you're definitely making an influx of human activity. You're going

732
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: to be spooking deer. You want to do it as

733
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: sent free as possible, which is impossible in this type

734
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: of heat. You god, I don't even care if you

735
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: were in all seltlack and you know, if you've got

736
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: everything perfectly sent free, you're still going to leave some

737
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: human older because you're gonna be working on stuff, you're

738
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: gonna touch stuff, and you're gonna sweat, and you're gonna leave.

739
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 1: You leave a human order. So this time of year,

740
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 1: you can go in and prepare some stuff and odds

741
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: are might not affect you in the early season. But

742
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: one of the things I really hate doing is this

743
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: time of year, everything is in full foliage. So when

744
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: you go in and you prepare shooting lanes, you're making

745
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 1: a major visual difference. So you're not only leaving a

746
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: a human intrusion, maybe a faint scent ribbon throughout the

747
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: woods and wherever you're paying a locate preparing a location,

748
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: but you're also making a visual change. You know, most

749
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: most locations you're cutting two, three, maybe even four shooting

750
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: lanes if you're within any type of security cover, and

751
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: so you're making visual changes. Whereas during post season, you

752
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: know you're cutting stuff where there's no foliage on it,

753
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: and then everything greens up the same as it does

754
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: as it comes into spring and summer, and there is

755
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: no real visual change because everything is just happening at

756
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: the same, you know, as everything grows so um, but

757
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, right now, you could go out

758
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: and it probably maybe wouldn't affect too much. It depends

759
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: on the state. In the area of public lands. I

760
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: don't know public lands. I think they get pounded. And

761
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: definitely would you know the place I the place I

762
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: hunted opening morning, for probably twenty plus years, there was

763
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: a minimum, an absolute minimum of thirty bow hunters and

764
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: trees in the section, which is sixty acres on opening day.

765
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 1: At that you say wow. But in zone three in Michigan,

766
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: that's not that abnormal. That's relatively normal. And you look

767
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: at states like like West Virginia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York,

768
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: Massachusetts that that's a pretty common number people. People might

769
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: not think that, but when you look at you know,

770
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: you've got sixty acres, and you've got twenty acre parcels,

771
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: ten acre parcels, forty acre parcels, eight acre parcels. You

772
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: put two or three hundreds on each one of those.

773
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: That adds up real quick. It's true, it's true. I

774
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: hate to think about that in my own in my

775
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: little sections. But as I sit and I start thinking about, okay,

776
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: such and such probably be hunting, and so and so

777
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: is likely be hunting, and this section, you're right that

778
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: it adds up quick. Yeah. And and obviously opening morning,

779
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be in the woods. You know, they've

780
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: been waiting all year for that. And that's a that's

781
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: another thing, you know, I have a ton of hobbies.

782
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: I I think people that just dwell one of their

783
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: life on deer hunting and trying to kill them into

784
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 1: your buck every year to actually overthink things, it's it's

785
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: you do. You have to be very detail oriented and

786
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: very cautious of everything you do. Uh. Once you get

787
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: to a certain point, Uh, you tend not to overthink things.

788
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: You just hunt smart and then things come relatively consistently.

789
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: And and I don't know things nowadays. I had less

790
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: hours than I ever used to come back in the

791
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, and I'm I'm far more consistently successful

792
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: on mature bucks. I just hunt a lot smarter. Yeah.

793
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: That that definitely is to be consistent. Trait with those

794
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: most successful hunters is they don't necessarily hunt harder, they

795
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: hunt smarter. And if you can do that, that that

796
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: really is a one of those major lege thresholds. Once

797
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: you've kind of passed through that in your journey as

798
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: a hunter, I feel like you start seeing significant differences.

799
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: So all right, now, let's let's go back to we're

800
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: doing some summer scouting, maybe and we found a location

801
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: that looks that looks good. Maybe we'll just say for

802
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: early season, I see a spot. This looks like a

803
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: good early season spot to me. Um, you're there with me.

804
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: Let's say you're walking the property with me, we say, hey,

805
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: this is a good early season spot. Take me through

806
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: your why why is it? Why would you think it's

807
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: a good early season spot? Well, that was going to

808
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: maybe be my question for you, but let's have I'll

809
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: throw hypothetically. I'll throw a hypothetical situation out there, and

810
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: let's just say this is a stand location that is

811
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: easy to access. I'm not gonna bump any deer when

812
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to come in for an afternoon set. I'm

813
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: going to say, there is an isolated food source that's

814
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: within cover. Maybe like you mentioned earlier, little apple tree,

815
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: and um, the prevailing winds are likely gonna at that time,

816
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna be coming from a betting era that's not

817
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: too far away. It's going to be coming towards me,

818
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: so I can be now, I I worry about the wind,

819
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: So that's something that would matter to me. Um. But

820
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: so that's that's our high level situation. We're standing in

821
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: this area, we're looking around. I'm curious to hear your

822
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: thoughts on what's going through your mind when you're trying

823
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: to choose that right tree? What does the right tree

824
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: look like for you? What do you think about when

825
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: choosing where you're standing? Needs to be set up in

826
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: a general area? Um? Anything and everything related to that

827
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 1: I'm curious about. Okay, let's pretend you just did find

828
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: an apple tree, because use an apple or let's say

829
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: a white oak? Which do You're obviously prefer white oakgate

830
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: corns over red olk cakecorns. So either one of those

831
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: two trees. Uh. If I backed my career up seventeen

832
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: years before I learned how to properly care for and

833
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: use snot lock, which most people that do well in

834
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: sunt lock don't know how to properly care for and

835
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: use it. Um. But if that if that were the case,

836
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: and I did pay attention to win like I used to,

837
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: I would obviously want to set up on the down

838
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: wind side of the actual destination location. Uh Me, personally,

839
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm not the most phenomenal archer in the world. I'm

840
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: a twelve or eighteen yard guy. I like shots within

841
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: twenty yards, so I would set up within twenty yards

842
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: of the actual destination spot. I'm not that guy that

843
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: you know. If I see a scrape area, you know

844
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: I set up on runway leading to it. I want

845
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: to set up at the destination spot. I want that

846
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: particular hunt to be the most potential possibilities possible, So

847
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: I'm setting up at the destination spot. So if I'm

848
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: gonna set up in an apple tree where you're gonna

849
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: come in, especially doozen fauns and more than bucks, they're

850
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna feed at that location for five to

851
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: ten minutes before before they move on and go to

852
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: go someplace else. So, anytime you set up at a

853
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: destination spot where deer will be lingering for a period

854
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: of time, you have to set up. And because I

855
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: hunt out of a sling I set up on the

856
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: back side the tree, So I'm gonna be on the

857
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: down wind side. If I'm paying attention to the wind,

858
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on the down wind side of the

859
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: actual tree, and I'm gonna be on the back side

860
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: where the tree is going to be a blocker between

861
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: me and the apple tree. Now that's a negative. With

862
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: a tree stand or a climber or a ladder stand,

863
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: a conventional stand, you can't typically do that because with

864
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: a sling you can just swing around to the side

865
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: of the tree when your shot opportunity comes and make

866
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: the shot. So but anyway, I'm gonna be on the

867
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: back side of the tree, peeking around the tree or

868
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, at the deer, and that way I'm not

869
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: going to get picked. Anytime you're at a destination location

870
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: and you're on a hang on or you're at a

871
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: ladder stand, you're typically hanging to the side of the tree,

872
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: whether your shot is to your left if you're right handed,

873
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: so basically your body figure is sticking out to the

874
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: side of the tree. So you're a protrusion, so you're

875
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: easy to pick, especially if it leaves your down. But

876
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: if it's an early seasonal location, the leaves are probably

877
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: gonna be up and you're probably gonna have some background

878
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: security cover. So that that's what I would do, and

879
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: I have several locations prepared like that. You know, I'm

880
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: not necessarily on the down one side because I don't

881
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: pay attention to win. But anytime I'm hunting in a

882
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: destination location, I always want to be on the back

883
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: side of a tree where I've got it blocking me

884
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: from the deer that are going to be lingering there.

885
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 1: Because in Michigan and pressured areas, deer always looking around

886
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: for people in trees. They're just always the ears or

887
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: movement eyes are looking around. And anytime you get three

888
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: or four deer, they're going to funds and maybe two

889
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: dolls and two funds. Your odds are getting picked sticking

890
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: out on the side of a tree are real high.

891
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: So you know, I would suggest if you were a

892
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: conventional tree stand hunter, you'd want to be up there

893
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: a minimum of twenty ft maybe twenty five, so you're

894
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: kind of up out of their peripheral vision. The lower

895
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: you are, the more apt you are to get picked.

896
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: So then how does that factor into how much trimming

897
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: you do. Are you the type that does not do

898
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: a lot of trimming for lanes because you want to

899
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: have as much cover in the tree, or do you

900
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: want to make sure you're not going to miss a

901
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: shot opportunity because of a limb at a destination location.

902
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably one shooting lane, and it's going to

903
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: be to the actual destination location, whether it be a

904
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: primary scrape area underneath white oak or at an apple tree.

905
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: Now I've got two apple trees on this property that

906
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: my workshops are gonna be held at where I've got

907
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: single lanes cleared to the actual tree in at one

908
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: of them, which is my favorite tree in the entire

909
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: property until two p and y bucks. At this spot,

910
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: I've raped half of the tree, and the farmer allowed

911
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: me to do that. In other words, I've got a

912
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 1: big V cut out of the center of the tree

913
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: because on the back side of the tree from where

914
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: I'm actually hunting, i'm hunting, I'm sitting. I'm hanging in

915
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: my sling in a red oak, and it's about i'd

916
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: say fourteen yards from the base of the apple tree.

917
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: But on the back side of the apple tree there's

918
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of brush, and any time a mature buck

919
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: comes into that apple tree, he comes through that heavy

920
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: cover and he just steps out and he'll eat a

921
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: few apples. On the opposite side of the tree from

922
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: where I'm sitting, and then he'll turn around and he'll

923
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: exit back out that security cover, and he's coming in

924
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: to check for Doze, And while he's there, he's just

925
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: eating a couple of apples linger like Doz and Subordinate

926
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: Bucks do. Whereas when Dose and Subordinate Bucks come in,

927
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: they will actually come over onto my side of the

928
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: apple tree, which is much more open, and it's kind

929
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: of on his side. He'll slant and they'll be totally exposed,

930
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: and they'll just walk around and eating apples for you know,

931
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen minutes before they leave. But the mature

932
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: bucks always come in through this heavy security cover, eat

933
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: a few apples, you know. They'll pop out on the

934
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: back side that just off that security cover, eat a

935
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: few apples, and they'll turn around and go. So I

936
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: had to physically clear out a huge portion of the

937
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: tree so that I could shoot through the tree to

938
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: the opposite side. But there's only any time I'm in

939
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: a destination location. It's extremely rare that I have more

940
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: than one shooting lane, you know, and it's focused right

941
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: on the destination spot. Now, if I'm setting up a

942
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: destination spot, let's say it like a scrape area, I

943
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: will even though I'm not paying attention to wind, I'm

944
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: not fearful of getting winded. I may set a tree

945
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 1: up on the typically downwind side of the prevailing winds,

946
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: which is northwest winds usually, so I'm on the southeast

947
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 1: side of the scrape, because there's been several times when

948
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: I've had dear mature bucks come down wind of the

949
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: scrapes and set check it with the wind, as opposed

950
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: to actually physically going to the scrapes and work in

951
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: the scrapes and work in the licking branches. So I'll

952
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: set up maybe twenty yards from the scrapes where I

953
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: got a chip shot to the scrapes. But if the

954
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: deer comes in and checks from twenty to forty yards

955
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: down wind, I've also got a shot at that. Now,

956
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: what about a location where you're expecting where it's not

957
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: necessary destination, but a spot where you're catching travel. So

958
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: let's maybe hypothetically a rut type stand site where you're hunting,

959
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: maybe some kind of terrain funnel or pinch point where

960
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: you're just expecting deer to be coming through, and there

961
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: might be a couple of different places they're coming from.

962
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: Will you open up multiple other student lanes in that case,

963
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: or is it still as minimal as possible. Typically, when

964
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: I'm hunting a transition zone, that's what you're talking about,

965
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: from let's say, a betting to a feeding area during

966
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: the early season, or from a betting area to a

967
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: betting area during the road phases when bucks are sent

968
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: checking for estrous does in the middle of the day. Uh. Typically,

969
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: in a pinch point, I will just have a shooting lane,

970
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: two shooting lanes, one each direction to the outside edge

971
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: of the pinch point, as far as I can shoot

972
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: to either side. There's no reason to have more than that,

973
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: because the deer going through that pinch point either on

974
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: my right up to my left. There's no reason to

975
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 1: have more than two shooting lanes. Now, if I'm setting

976
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: up a location within a betting area during postseason, within

977
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: a betting area, I can have as many as five

978
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: shooting lanes. They're like spokes on a tire because it

979
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: during the rough phases when does are chasing chason estrus does.

980
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: They can come from any direction and they can go

981
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: buy at any time, at any and at any place.

982
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: There is no rhyme nor reason, there is no routine.

983
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, people that sit on the edge of perimeters

984
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: of betting areas and listen to bucks chasing inside betting

985
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: areas while they're sitting on a perimeter know exactly what

986
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. When you're within the perimeter, when you're

987
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: within the betting area, you have to have multiple lanes

988
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: so that you don't miss opportunities because you're not going

989
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: to be hunting in there more than two or three

990
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: times during the course of the season during the run phases.

991
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: So if an opportunity arises, you want it, you want

992
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: to capitalize on it, so you have multiple, multiple shooting

993
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: lanes as many as five. That makes sense. Okay, now

994
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: real quick, before we get to my next question for John,

995
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: we need to pause briefly to think our partners at

996
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: White Tailed Properties for their ongoing support of this podcast

997
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 1: and for this week's white Tail Wisdom segment, our producer

998
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: Spencer has brought in another Michigan hunter and a White

999
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: Tail Properties land special list, Tony Hansen, and Tony has

1000
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: a few thoughts to share here on topics very similar

1001
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,919
Speaker 1: to that which we've been talking about with John. This week.

1002
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: With White Tail Properties, we are joined by Tony Hansen

1003
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: aid Land specialists out of Michigan, and Tony is gonna

1004
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: be telling us about what factors matter most on a

1005
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: property in high pressure areas well. To me, it's it's

1006
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: a variety. So even though I mean I own and

1007
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of hunt a lot of small properties, you got

1008
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: to look forward a mix of things you need. You

1009
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: need food for sure, but you need cover probably even more. So.

1010
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: You know, I need to have all of the pieces

1011
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 1: that the deer needs because I don't want them traveling

1012
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: very far, and I don't want them to feel like

1013
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: they have to travel very far because you know, especially

1014
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: during our gun season when there's nearly a million guys

1015
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: out there, if a deer moves, it's it's got a

1016
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: real pigance of getting shot. So I try to find

1017
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: properties that have everything you need right there. And yes,

1018
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: neighborhood matters, but it doesn't matter quite as much as

1019
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: what you can, you know, do right there on your

1020
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: own property. So you want to make sure that you

1021
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: have food and cover and um, you know, betting areas,

1022
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: security places and actuaries are a big thing with me too,

1023
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: So I looked for a lot of variety, and that's

1024
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: in the property. If you'd like to learn more and

1025
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: to see the properties that Tony currently has listed for sale,

1026
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: visit white tail properties dot com backslash Hanson. That's h

1027
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: A N S E N. So I want to hear

1028
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more about your betting area stands sites.

1029
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: But but before we get that, maybe we can work

1030
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: through it to that sequentially. Can you give me an

1031
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 1: example of a few of your ideal locations for you know,

1032
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: we talked a couple of examples for early seasons, like

1033
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: an oak tree or an apple tree, but are there

1034
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: any other early season locations that you would say just

1035
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: high level generic this and that, and then could move

1036
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: me through the season until we get to that rut

1037
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: betting area stands side. Ah. Yeah, early season it's it's

1038
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: not extremely uncommon to find scrape areas in September. So

1039
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: if I'm out doing my speed touring and uh, you know,

1040
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: I happen to go through a lot of times, I'll

1041
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: actually also look at my transition my transition funnels basically,

1042
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: and if there's scrape areas and in a type pinch point,

1043
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'll those are spots where I'll hunt during

1044
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: the early season as well. So, but that's about it.

1045
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: Typically early season if it's not as a scrape area

1046
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: or white oak or apple tree, I'm typically not hunting it.

1047
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: I key on some you know, a key on destination areas.

1048
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: I don't hunt a lot, you know, maybe on the

1049
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: first three or four days of season, and then I

1050
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: really slack off on my hunting. So I don't need

1051
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: a lot of early season locations to to actually hunt. Now,

1052
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: I do have a not one other spot that's um

1053
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: it's on the edge of September and there's about a

1054
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: fifteen yard gap from the edge of the timber, and

1055
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: it's tall weeds. It's a buffer zone between the timber

1056
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: in a crop field. Now the in the edge of

1057
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: that timber is all red oaks, and but there's no

1058
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: white it's in the area, and they will they will

1059
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: eat red o'kakecorns if there are no whites, because if

1060
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: there's whites, and they'll eat those first. So during the

1061
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: years that that crop field is in standing, corn dear

1062
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: will bed in the crop fields or they'll bed back

1063
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: in the timber, and they'll transition back and forth just

1064
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, because they've got security cover from one spot

1065
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 1: to the next. So that's another spot that even though

1066
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: there's no scrape area. The full the full tree line

1067
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: is red oaks, so there's no that's not really a

1068
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: destination area. But but typically there will be scrapes, even

1069
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: prior to October first, when they're dropping acorns, there will

1070
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 1: be scrapes along that timberline. And dear, I will put

1071
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: a motion camera, which I don't use motion cameras much

1072
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: in Michigan, and if I do happen to see something

1073
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: worth shooting, I will set up it strictly an evening spot.

1074
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: I can't hunt that spot in the morning. UM I will.

1075
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: I will hunt that spot. And I did kill a

1076
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: UM twenty two inch wide ten point there, wide ten

1077
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: point there two years ago in early season. Does water

1078
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: factory new yearly season strategy at all? Uh? It used to.

1079
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: It depends on the area. You know. If I'm hunting

1080
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,919
Speaker 1: an area that's pretty much devoid of water and I

1081
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: find a water source, yeah, then it definitely factors into

1082
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: my into my my plan. But the properties that I'm

1083
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: hunting now, one of them has a lot of swamp

1084
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: on it, so there's water everywhere, so water is not

1085
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: a factor. Uh. And the other's the other spot's got

1086
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: a crook running through it. So you know, water is

1087
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: not a factor there. But there has been periods of

1088
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: time in my hunting life because I've probably hunted fifty

1089
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: to seventy different parcels of property where there hasn't been

1090
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: any water to speak of. You know, the area has

1091
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: been pretty devoid of water, and if you find a

1092
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: water hole, it's a phenomenal spot to hunt um. In fact,

1093
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: I've actually made water holes before where they didn't exist

1094
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: because the area had no water. As soon as you

1095
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: put something put water there, you know dear will come.

1096
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: It's they have to drink water. Do you find any

1097
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: difference in how dear um prefer moving water versus standing water?

1098
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: Do you find that they tend to prefer like a

1099
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: pond or a water hole over a stream or it

1100
00:58:53,840 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: does not matter. I find that mature deer exclusively pressured

1101
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: areas like to drink water wherever they have security cover.

1102
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: Matured bucks and pressured areas like to have security cover.

1103
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: I don't care what they're doing, I don't care if

1104
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: they're drinking, swimming party in laying on a tube. They

1105
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: like security cover. That is an absolute critical must. So

1106
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: if they have if they have a pond that has

1107
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: a forty yard buffer of grass. Odds are they're not

1108
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: going to drink water there during daylight hours. It's going

1109
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: to be strictly during the security of darkness. Whereas if

1110
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: they have a little water hole mud puddle, it's a

1111
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: hundred yards off that pond and it's got security cover

1112
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: all around it and it's got security transition covered to it.

1113
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: That's where they will drink their water, and that they

1114
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: if they're drinking it in daylight hours. So what's the

1115
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: fast forward now from the early season to mid to

1116
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: late October. I know historically you tend to not hunt

1117
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: as much during the quote unquote October low Um. Is

1118
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: that still the case or are you starting to do

1119
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: a little more during that time period? That's it's still

1120
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: the case. I still hunt some secondary spots, uh. You know,

1121
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: basically there's spots where I'm not impeding or doing any

1122
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: intrusion close to any my rugphase locations. As long as

1123
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: you can pick up find secondary spots where you're not

1124
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: interrupting any deer activity, dough activity, or otherwise that your

1125
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: rudphase locations, It's okay to hunt during that low period, Um,

1126
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: but it's very rarely productive. I think, Oh, I'm trying

1127
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: to remember. I've probably killed three bucks in my lifetime

1128
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: that made book in Michigan in you know, mid October. Okay, Now,

1129
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: out of thirty that's a pretty low number. The odds

1130
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: aren't great killed. Let me put that in perspective. I

1131
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: think I've killed five during the first three days that

1132
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: made book three during the mid October time frame, and

1133
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: then the other twenty two between Halloween and the fourteenth

1134
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: in November. So you get twenty two and to basically

1135
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: a two week time frame and only eight in the

1136
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: other month. Yeah, yeah, start start comparison, no doubt about that.

1137
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: And I've done the statistics in all my books, and

1138
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: statistically I don't make I don't care what state you're

1139
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: hunting in. Sixty plus percent of all trophy bucks entered

1140
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: in the p n Y Record Book are taken during

1141
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: that state's RUD phases. You know, in every state has

1142
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: a different RUD phase period for pretty much not every state,

1143
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: but when you get down south, some of them rindy

1144
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: summer and even January. Yeah, things get a little wonky

1145
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: down there. Um. Now, there are exceptions to the rule

1146
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, which you have killed some bucks during

1147
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: mid October. Specifically, I want to point out your recent

1148
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: success in two thousand fifteen, just a few months after

1149
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: we talked last time in the podcast, you killed a

1150
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: great buck on October, and I'm really curious to hear

1151
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: how that happened. How were you able to make the

1152
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: best of that tough time period. Well, that was actually

1153
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: at that location where I was talking about, where I

1154
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: was hunting that red oak timberline and had that fifteen

1155
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: foot weed buffer, and then they were standing corn. So

1156
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: basically what I did is I parked on the road,

1157
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,479
Speaker 1: I walked through the standing corn. Because once I walked

1158
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: through the standing corner, you don't really spook much for

1159
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: deer when you're walking in standing corn, even though deer

1160
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: are betting in it. If you do happen to spook,

1161
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: and they just go off to the sides and go

1162
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: out into the corn. They don't leave the corn and

1163
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: go in the woods. They just go out and chill

1164
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: out and go back to the normal thing. So basically,

1165
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: I walked through the cornfield and once I got through

1166
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: the cornfield, I've just got a like I said, a

1167
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: fifteen yard buffalo weeds. I just walked right to the

1168
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: dream and got up the tree, so I'm not really

1169
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: intruding on anything. And that particular day, uh, there must

1170
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: have been an early estrus doll in the area. That's all.

1171
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: That's basically all I can say is because I saw

1172
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: this big buck back behind the timber line, probably fifty yards.

1173
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: The woods is a relatively open and then there's a

1174
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: big area just really really tall weeds and that's where

1175
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: the dew that's where dear bed as well as in

1176
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: the corner. And I saw this big buck come out

1177
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: of that weedy area and kind of cut sideways and

1178
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: go over into these the standard pines that spruce trees

1179
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: that grow right down to the ground. And it was

1180
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: like fifty yards away, so obviously I didn't get a shot.

1181
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: And uh as though they're probably half an hour later,

1182
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I've seen this dough and followed

1183
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: by two phones come running out of that pine area,

1184
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: made a big circle, went back by the weeds, turned

1185
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: and came and she ran right under my tree into

1186
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: the cornfield, turn right under my red oak, right through

1187
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,959
Speaker 1: the weed buffer, right into the cornfield, and the two

1188
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: funds stood there. They just kind of right at the

1189
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: tree line. They just kind of loitered, and they just

1190
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: kind of moved off to the side a little bit,

1191
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden I heard this scrunt, and

1192
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: sure enough, here comes that big buck. And he followed

1193
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: her exactly on her exact route and alose to the ground.

1194
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: And when he got to the tree line, he was

1195
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: six yards from my tree. He stopped. He did not

1196
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: want to cross that fifteen yard open buffer of weeds,

1197
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: of weeds, He did not want to leave the timber,

1198
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: and he stopped. Now, maybe she wasn't in heat. I

1199
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: think if she would have been actually in heat, she

1200
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: may have been close to it. But I don't think

1201
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: she was actually in heat. I think if she had been,

1202
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: she would have followed her. But he stopped there, and

1203
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: he was broadside. And because I hunt out at a sling,

1204
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: he was to my right, and obviously, with a sling

1205
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: shots to your left, I'm right handed. I had to

1206
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: lift my ball up over the sling lead strip and

1207
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: spin around and shooting an awkward position. But I practiced

1208
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: that shot, and I'm probably twenty eight ft up, and

1209
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: so I was not worried about him picking me at

1210
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,959
Speaker 1: six yards. His peripheral vision, he had to look straight

1211
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: up to see me. So I flipped my ball up

1212
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: over the lead strap and I made that shot, and

1213
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: he ran about a hundred yards and what was kind

1214
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: of weird, he ran out of sight and the two

1215
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: fonts ran after him. When he ran back into the timber,

1216
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: he didn't go into the weeds. He ran off sideways

1217
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: into the timber, and the fawns kind of took off

1218
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: after him, which I thought was really strange. I'd never

1219
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: seen that before. And about ten minutes later, you know,

1220
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: the two fonts came back, you know, probably looking for

1221
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: Mom and one of the fawns, a button buck fawn.

1222
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: I kept looking back, kept looking back to where the

1223
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: the buck, where I last saw the buck go, and

1224
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: finally they went and you know, into the corn after Mom.

1225
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: But him looking back just kind of let me know

1226
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: that he had expired over there. But I still didn't

1227
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: look for him until the next morning and he was

1228
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: laying right there. Wow. So, if I had to if

1229
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: I had to drill down from what you said, if

1230
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:15,919
Speaker 1: I had to drill down, like the why behind why

1231
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: that worked out for your why you hunter there and

1232
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, But would it be safe

1233
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: to say that you chose to hunt there that day

1234
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: because A it was a transition area from bed to feed.

1235
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: B it was low impact, like you could go in

1236
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: there and you weren't going to mess up anything because

1237
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: you had that great access to the corn. You could

1238
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: pop right into the tree. So it's a safe place

1239
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: for you to go at a time frame when you

1240
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 1: weren't really expecting great action. But you're an easy to

1241
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: get to place where there's the potential for that bed

1242
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: defeed transition? Is that at a high level? Correct? You

1243
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: said that perfectly? Yes, perfect spot on low impact entry. Uh,

1244
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: didn't affect my road face hunting locations. Now, something you

1245
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,919
Speaker 1: mentioned at the beginning of that story intrigued me when

1246
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: you're talking about the fact you could you know, you

1247
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: can walk through standing corn and not worry too much

1248
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: about spooking deer. And this is something I always like

1249
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: debate myself when I'm hunting a property has standing corn.

1250
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: I'm always torn between should I access through the middle

1251
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: of the corn because of that, because I don't think,

1252
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, you're less likely for something to see you

1253
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: off in the timber, bettered or something um Or should

1254
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: I walk along the edge of the field where it's

1255
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: quieter usually because you're not hitting against all the cornstalks,

1256
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: but you might spook more deer that way. And then also,

1257
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: I feel like you get so much travel along the

1258
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: edge of the corn fields. Uh, and I worry a

1259
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: my leaving a centrail when I'm traveling that. So is

1260
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: it better to access your stands right through the middle

1261
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: of standing corn and try to use that as a

1262
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: way to mask your access or is it better to quieter? Okay? Absolutely,

1263
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: you hit it right out, you hit the mail right

1264
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: and it's absolutely better to access through the corn anytime.

1265
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: One piece of property that I hunted for years, uh.

1266
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: For the first few times for me to access an

1267
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: evening location, I'd walk down the edge of the corn

1268
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: and I would always spook dear bedded in the timber

1269
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: to my right, you know, to the side of the corn.

1270
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: And when I started going coming and entering through the corn,

1271
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: and you know, through the corner I could get when

1272
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 1: I was relatively close from the tree. From the tree

1273
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: outline in the skyline above the corn, I could tell

1274
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 1: where my tree is, so I would just move over

1275
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: until I you know, once I exited the corn, I'm

1276
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: right there at my tree. And I love hunting transition

1277
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: zones from corn to timber or corn corn to swamp. Um. So, yes,

1278
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: you are absolutely correct on that. Uh, you're definitely better

1279
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: off going through the corn. In fact, last year, UM,

1280
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: I had a guy on saddle hunter dot com, which

1281
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: is a hunting talk for him. He invited me to

1282
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: come down in Ohio and bow hunt at ten point

1283
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: that him and his buddy had been wanting all season,

1284
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: and they gun hunted that buck all season, and they

1285
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: missed him twice during gun season and they hunted. Invited

1286
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: me to come down in December and I went down

1287
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: there and I prepped a tree and I spooked some

1288
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: deer when I prepped the tree, and um, which I

1289
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: didn't like. But I was I was gonna hunt for

1290
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: five days, and I had one day. The first day

1291
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: was set aside for scouting and prepping a couple of locations.

1292
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: So when I went in and prepped the locations and scouted,

1293
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: I just figured out there's no way I'm going to

1294
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: be able to hunt this property in the mornings. So

1295
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: I immediately excluded half of my hunting time. Now I'm

1296
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: down to when I'm down to down down to five

1297
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: evening hunts. Because the property was just knit, not laid

1298
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: out in a in a type of It was just

1299
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: wasn't laid out where I can hunt mornings without spooking deer.

1300
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: And I refused to do that because I know in

1301
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: this area there was considerable unting pressure, not like Michigan,

1302
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 1: but enough to know that if I started spooking deer

1303
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: with my entries in the morning, you know, my odds

1304
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: are getting shots the rest of my five days, they're

1305
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 1: going to be pretty slim. So I totally negated morning

1306
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: hunts and I ended up killing that buck on my

1307
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: third evening hunt in a snowstorm on I think it

1308
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: was December. But what I did differently than them the

1309
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: one guy was walking during season. He was walking there

1310
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: was like a five or six row buffer of pine trees,

1311
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: and they were white pine trees, and they were mature,

1312
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: so they were dead underneath. The bottom six ft were dead,

1313
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 1: so you could see through him. And he was walking

1314
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: down the edge of those pines from a big weed

1315
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: field and it kind of dropped down as soon as

1316
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 1: you left those pines down into some brush, and he

1317
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: was spooking deer with his entry without even I don't

1318
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: even think he knew it. And so what I did

1319
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 1: is I prepped a tree. I prepped one of the

1320
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: pine trees coming from down over the hill where the

1321
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: deer were coming from their bedding area up through the pines,

1322
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: and there was a couple of scrapes along the pines.

1323
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: But what I did is I walked out into the

1324
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: middle of the weed field. There was a little drainage ditch,

1325
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 1: and I walked that drainage ditch, so I was low.

1326
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: And then I got out into the middle of wheat

1327
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 1: field and I walked through the wheat field, which would

1328
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: be the same as walking through corn. And I walked

1329
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: through the weed field right to the pine tree that

1330
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: I had propped, So I wasn't spooking anything by walking

1331
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,719
Speaker 1: down the edge of that field the edge of the pines,

1332
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: if you're understanding what I'm saying. And I got in

1333
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: that pine tree, and there was a blizzard bed day

1334
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: and I killed that buck on that third evening at

1335
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: fourteen yards. He actually came out of that low spot

1336
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: below the pines, came up and and was actually making

1337
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: fresh scrapes where he had had scrapes, you know, before

1338
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: it snowed, and that he was actually opening in them

1339
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: back up. It's amazing what a difference access can make.

1340
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: It's one of those details that huge is so so important,

1341
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: but gets over looked far too often. I think huge.

1342
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: And also when when he would when the other guy

1343
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: that was hunting there was when he was entering, his

1344
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: body was spooking deer with his entry, and even if

1345
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: it was a rainy or wendy day when he might

1346
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: not have spooked much with his entry. Then when he

1347
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: exited after an evening hunt, because he was primarily an

1348
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: evening hunter, he would exit through the wheat field or

1349
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: down that you know, he'd walked down the edge of

1350
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: that wheat field again. So when I exited, you know,

1351
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: because I hunted that the day before and I didn't

1352
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: kill anything, I saw a big six point. But when

1353
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 1: I exited, I exited down through the pines, through the

1354
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: bedding area. I gave it about a half hour to

1355
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: forty five minutes after dark before I exited. But I

1356
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: exited where the deer were coming from up into the

1357
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: wheat field. So I wasn't spooking deer with my exit

1358
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: or my entries. And that's a big deal. People think

1359
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: just because well I'm spooking deer, I'm done hunting, I'm

1360
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: spooking deer with my exit. That doesn't affect anything. Well,

1361
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: that's totally not correct. Yeah, at least if you want

1362
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: to hunt there again, right, because that's definitely changes things. Yes,

1363
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: Going back to the corn topic. Um, I feel like

1364
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 1: so many times hunters get frustrated when they have standing corn.

1365
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: There's you know, oh you know it was bad season,

1366
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: standing corn left up too late. Um. How do you

1367
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: feel about standing corn versus you know? I feel like

1368
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: in a lot of parts of the country there's corn

1369
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 1: one near beans one year and it rotates on these properties. Um,

1370
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: when you have that rotation and property that you're hunting

1371
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 1: near or on, how does that impact your hunting? Do

1372
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: you like the standing corn? Do you like the beans?

1373
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: Do you like it when it's cut? What are your

1374
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: thoughts there? I love finding when they're standing corn. I

1375
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,759
Speaker 1: would prefer standing corn over beans or hey or wheat

1376
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: any day or the week in a pressured area without

1377
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: a doubt, because because dear, you can set up in spots.

1378
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: You know, I always have spots set up in transitions

1379
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: loans from the crop field where there's security cover. The

1380
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: butts right up to a crop field and goes into

1381
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: the timber or whatever, you know, back into a ridge

1382
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:03,759
Speaker 1: with acorns or white you know, a oak trees or whatever.

1383
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: And when they're standing corn, that's just a natural transition

1384
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: from betting to betting. You know, they've got security cover

1385
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: all the way, so you can actually hunt those transition spots.

1386
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: You can't hunt those transition spots if it's anything short

1387
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: crop field because the deer, mature bucks are just not

1388
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: going to in pressure areas, be exposed out in an

1389
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 1: open area during daylight hours. It's just it's just very

1390
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: very rare. You know Kansas, ioway, Yeah, they will see

1391
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: then walk across the grass field two inches tall in

1392
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: the middle of the day. But in pressured areas that

1393
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: just doesn't happen on any consistent basis. So I would

1394
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 1: much much rather hunt standing corn. And plus my a

1395
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 1: lot of like that red old tree that I was

1396
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: talking about how I killed that big buck, There is

1397
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: no way God's green earth I would have killed that

1398
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: deer if that would have been a bean field, because

1399
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:54,759
Speaker 1: that doll would not have ran into that bean field

1400
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 1: because there was no security cover. So horn is to me,

1401
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: is a huge factor. Also, if you're setting up in

1402
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: trees a lot of times you can have trees prepped

1403
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 1: the long crop fields and deer will actually transition down

1404
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: the edge of corn when during the rud phase, as

1405
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: if it's still standing, which it rarely is by that

1406
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: time of year, but if it is, you know, they'll

1407
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: transition down the edge of of standing corn searching, you know,

1408
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: scent checking for those that came in and out of

1409
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: the corn early in the morning or came the end

1410
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,679
Speaker 1: of the corn in the evening. So I think standing

1411
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: corn is a huge advantage. Most people just don't know

1412
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 1: how to react to it. And I love hunting within

1413
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 1: standing corn. A lot of times during mid October, I'll

1414
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: actually hunt the corn, you know, if I want to

1415
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,839
Speaker 1: kill a couple of dolls or something for the freezer,

1416
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: if I just love stock and corn. Any advice on

1417
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: how to pull off the corn field stock, Yeah, it's

1418
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: real simple. You basically you want to go, you know, uh,

1419
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 1: opposite the corn rows. You you kind of look at

1420
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 1: the yield. You go thirty forty yards in from the edge,

1421
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: and you just you just walk directly parallel or not parallel,

1422
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: perpendicular to the corn rows and you kind of get

1423
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: a visual. You know, some corn there's weeds in it.

1424
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: Some corns are some corn fields are real clean. But

1425
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 1: I try and move to the side however far I

1426
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: can see. So let's say I can see fifty yards

1427
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: down the corner, down the corn rows, I'll move fifty

1428
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 1: yards into the cornfield, and that's where i'll do my

1429
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: first walk Once I walk down. The first walk through.

1430
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: Basically what I do and how I walk walk the

1431
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: corn is I'll take my left foot, I'll put it

1432
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: at the base of a corn stock, and I have

1433
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: not I do not have an arrow knock. My bow

1434
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: is over my shoulder. I'll put my foot on the

1435
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: edge of the corn stock. And this has to be

1436
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: in a windy or a rainy day. Can't be on

1437
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: a calm day. It's got to be a noisy day.

1438
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: I'll push the corn stock to the side, you know,

1439
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: stick my head through, look both directions that there's nothing

1440
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: bettered there. I'll move into that row and do the

1441
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: same thing in the next row. And once you do

1442
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: that for a while, you know, you get relatively fast

1443
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: at it. Once you get through the field, you move on.

1444
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 1: If you can see fifty fifty yards down each row

1445
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:13,720
Speaker 1: or thirty yards whatever, you double that distance you go

1446
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,719
Speaker 1: double that distance and then you come back the other direction.

1447
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:19,680
Speaker 1: So if you could see fifty yards, you go a

1448
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,719
Speaker 1: hundred yards down that way. You're looking at the fifty

1449
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,679
Speaker 1: yards you didn't see, and then fifty yards the other direction,

1450
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: and you just keep doing that, and you do it

1451
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 1: relatively slowly. But if it's the wind ear, it is

1452
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: the rainier, it is the faster you can go because

1453
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: the deer can't hear you. And when you see something

1454
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: within shooting distance, and it's not uncommon to you know,

1455
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: have a dough or whatever bettered walk stick your head

1456
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: through and have a dough five yards away from you,

1457
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:51,799
Speaker 1: and you just back up knock an arrow. I usually

1458
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: would move maybe five yards down the row, so I

1459
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: don't have that short of a shot because you've got

1460
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: to step into the row. So there's is going to

1461
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: be a visual Uh yessue step into the row and

1462
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: take my shot. That'll be pretty intense. I've got three

1463
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 1: does in one in one hunt. Yeah, I mean, and

1464
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not the type of deal where

1465
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill big mature bucks. But you know, you

1466
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: typically I save filling my freezer until you know, December,

1467
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:24,759
Speaker 1: late December but if there's corn and I need some venicine,

1468
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 1: that's what I do. That's the way of doing it.

1469
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: And I have killed one nice buck in a corn

1470
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: doing that, but that wasn't my plan. It sounds like

1471
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: a sounds like a fun way to go about it.

1472
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: Though it's a riot. I love it. It's a lot

1473
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 1: of fun in it really teaches you patients. Oh yeah,

1474
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:44,679
Speaker 1: I imagine you got to be very careful with each step,

1475
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: each movement, each each next process. Yeah, but you'd be

1476
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: surprised when it's when it's a windy day and or raining,

1477
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 1: you can get away with a lot. And set control

1478
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,600
Speaker 1: is a big issue there too, because if if you

1479
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: don't have a good scent control, always half of the

1480
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 1: deer are going to be downwind of you. You know,

1481
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 1: if you see deer, obviously half of the field that

1482
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: you're looking, you're gonna have deer downwind of you. Yeah, yeah,

1483
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 1: definitely gonna keep that aligned. Yeah, So I want to

1484
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 1: wear something beige that kind of matches the corn, so

1485
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: if you do step in the row for a shot,

1486
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: you don't stick out like a sore thumb. And I

1487
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: actually have some old corn corn cameo. That makes sense

1488
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I was going to go back to uh.

1489
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: We were talking through some early season locations, we were

1490
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: talking through some mid October locations, and in the last

1491
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 1: podcast we did together, we spent a lot of time

1492
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 1: talking about how you use primary scrape areas during the

1493
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: rut and pre rut time period. We covered that really well.

1494
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: Um but but from what I understand, two other general

1495
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: types of areas that you focus on during that rut

1496
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: time period are rut staging areas and then, as you

1497
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: mentioned briefly earlier, betting areas. Can you elaborate on both

1498
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: of those typically what those look like, what you're looking for,

1499
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:05,880
Speaker 1: and then how you hunt them. Rud staging areas I've

1500
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: kind of abandoned. I don't hunt rud staging areas anymore.

1501
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,680
Speaker 1: I think in my first two books I wrote that

1502
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 1: I've had I know, in the first book I had

1503
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: a chapter on it, but I kind of abandoned that

1504
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: practice because, um, you know, I just hadn't had a

1505
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 1: lot of success with it. So I always look at

1506
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: my percentages of where my best opportunities are, and it

1507
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: was not at staging areas. You know, a lot of

1508
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: hunters at hunting lightly pressured areas. It's a Turkey common

1509
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: for deer to actually get out of a betting area

1510
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: and go and move closer to a feeding zone and

1511
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: bed in some sort of security cover and wait for

1512
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: est you know, for those and hopefully they get one

1513
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: in estris moving through that zone. Um, and that's a

1514
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: still they'll actually stage there in the evening or else

1515
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: they'll stage there in the morning and wait for those

1516
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: to come back you you know, after daylight. But I

1517
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 1: just haven't had a lot of success in Michigan doing that,

1518
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: so I kind of abandoned that. Okay, interesting And what

1519
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 1: was the other one betting areas? Uh? And what did

1520
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: you want to know about that? Well? So just I'd

1521
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: be interested in hearing about how you know, we talked

1522
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 1: about briefly, but when it comes to hunting betting years

1523
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 1: during the rut um you mentioned kind of alluded to

1524
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: that you're going right into the middle of them um

1525
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 1: for some of these hunts rather than on the edge.

1526
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: But can you kind of expand on that, you know,

1527
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 1: what other types of betting ears you're looking forward during

1528
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: the rut you know, how are you at, what are

1529
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 1: you thinking about when you're setting up there, etcetera. Etcetera. Okay, dude, Well, obviously,

1530
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 1: as I've mentioned, I only set up in betting areas

1531
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:47,600
Speaker 1: during post season, so you know they I totally scrutinize

1532
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: all the betting areas on the property I'm hunting during postseason,

1533
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 1: and um, it's pretty rare that I don't set up

1534
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 1: a location or two in in each betting area. And

1535
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: what I'm typically looking for is an open area. You know,

1536
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 1: a lot of people think when I'm talking about a

1537
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:07,200
Speaker 1: bedding area, it's all dense. Everything is dense. That's not

1538
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 1: the case. Anytime you go in a bedding area, there's

1539
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 1: gonna be open areas. There's gonna be convergence points, there's

1540
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: gonna be little openings where there's three or four runways

1541
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 1: coming through. There might even be at lost apple tree

1542
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: in the bedding area that maybe a couple of oak trees. Uh,

1543
01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: there may be those pricker bushes that have that real

1544
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:28,360
Speaker 1: light green leaves, and that's a preferred browse for deer

1545
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: that are in bedding areas. You know a lot of

1546
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 1: times it's it's it's advantageous to know what deer prefer

1547
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: to browse on. If there are no mass or fruit trees,

1548
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,640
Speaker 1: or crop crops in the area, and um, you know

1549
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,920
Speaker 1: those little pricker bushes with those nice green leaves. Deer

1550
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: love eating on those. So that's what I kind of

1551
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: key on. And and once in a blue moon, not

1552
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: very often, but if you find an opening in a

1553
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: in a betting area, a lot of times they'll be

1554
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: occasionally there'll be some scrape areas, and obviously I key

1555
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: on scrape areas. Of the bucks that I've killed over

1556
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: the last three years have been at primary scrape areas.

1557
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: You know, it might have been at an apple tree,

1558
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 1: but it's got a primary scrape area. It might have

1559
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: been in a white oak, but it's got a primary

1560
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: scrape area. It might have been in a funnel transition

1561
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 1: zone between two betting areas, or betting in a feeding area,

1562
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: but because it's a pinch point, there's a lot of

1563
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: dough traffic there, there's a scrape area there. Scrape areas

1564
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: are always located where there's a lot of dough activity.

1565
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: So plus of my bucks have been killed at scrape areos.

1566
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: So a lot of times you might find a scrape

1567
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:36,720
Speaker 1: area within a betting area because there's a lot of

1568
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 1: doughs in the betting area. And if there if they

1569
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 1: have a convergence point in an opening or at a

1570
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: feeding location, there could be a scrape area. So that's

1571
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: kind of what I ken on. I I still key

1572
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: on the same thing. I key on a destination spot,

1573
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,480
Speaker 1: hopefully a feeding spot within the betting area because of

1574
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 1: a mature buck and pressured areas. Typically, even during the

1575
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: rough shases, he'll come in to his betting area prior

1576
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: to daybreak. So I'm usually in them and set up

1577
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 1: an hour and a half before daylight. Uh So he

1578
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 1: comes in before daylight, and once he's in a secure

1579
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: betting area, he's pretty he feels pretty comfortable, So you

1580
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 1: know he's gonna move around, he's gonna browse, he's gonna

1581
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,599
Speaker 1: do whatever he may even it's possibly might even bet

1582
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:23,720
Speaker 1: down before daylight. But then midday during the road phasesn't

1583
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 1: that's the only time I hunt there. He's gonna get

1584
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: up and he's gonna start set checking that betting area

1585
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 1: for possible ester stows. And if he doesn't find anything

1586
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: in that particular betting area, and there's another betting area

1587
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:41,560
Speaker 1: within his core zone, and it has adequate transition security

1588
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 1: cover from this betting area to that one, he's going

1589
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: to take that route and go check that one as well.

1590
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,600
Speaker 1: And if there's a third or fourth, he'll do that

1591
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 1: as well. So betting areas are just key locations to

1592
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,600
Speaker 1: hunt during the road phases. And and as always I

1593
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: try to set up in a destination spot it if

1594
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 1: I can't find a apple or something sort of a

1595
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 1: food source, I'll try and find wherever I can find

1596
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: the most convergence of runways or sign within the betting area.

1597
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 1: And a lot of times if a buck, mature buck

1598
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 1: is betting in a betting area and you're scouting it

1599
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 1: during postseason, I've seen it many many times where there

1600
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 1: will be a cluster of rubs in a real small zone,

1601
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: which means he's betting. That's his betting spot. He's betting

1602
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 1: within fifteen yards of these rubs. And I've seen it

1603
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 1: where a buck will be bedded right in a little

1604
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: cluster of like small pines or spruce trees, and all

1605
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 1: the trees around him they're just shredded to shredded to pieces.

1606
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 1: And obviously I bolted out of there whatever time it

1607
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 1: season that I you know, postseason, I did, but it's

1608
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: six months before I'm going a hunting, So it's not

1609
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: a big deal. He's gonna definitely be back in that spot. Now,

1610
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: when you're when you're hunting these betting areas during the

1611
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: rough phases, are you specifically trying to hunt close to

1612
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 1: that buck betting are or do you focus on the

1613
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 1: dough betting areas because that's where these bucks are all

1614
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 1: coming to to look for the females. I focus on that.

1615
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 1: I focus on where dot drafting is always all buck

1616
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: activities during the rough phases revolves revolves around do activity. Yeah, okay,

1617
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:18,639
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Um, Now, I think I think most

1618
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: hunters know what we're talking about when we're talking about

1619
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 1: finding these betting areas. But can you just just in

1620
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,599
Speaker 1: case someone is still at that point in their hunting

1621
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 1: fate or journey where they're trying to fare? Okay, where

1622
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,559
Speaker 1: the heck are these dear betted? You're in a high

1623
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,599
Speaker 1: pressure state like Michigan or Pennsylvania, where do you typically

1624
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,360
Speaker 1: see these dear bed That the perfect answer for you, Mark,

1625
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 1: And this is really simple, and I say this at

1626
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,959
Speaker 1: my seminars all the time. When you're scouting a property,

1627
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,760
Speaker 1: depending on the hunting pressure in the area, you have

1628
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:52,640
Speaker 1: to pretend every single person is trying to kill you, okay,

1629
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 1: but he's trying to kill me. Where on this property,

1630
01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:59,600
Speaker 1: of all the places I can look, might I possibly

1631
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: feel feel comfortable standing up and moving during daylight hours?

1632
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,560
Speaker 1: That's what you have to look at. Everybody's trying to

1633
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 1: kill me. That's going to be a betting area fair

1634
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: enough that most betting areas are going to be the

1635
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 1: typically the best available security co available on the property

1636
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be sult but it's got to be

1637
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 1: dense enough where most humans do not want to go there.

1638
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: That's why they are comfortable being in there. That's where

1639
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: people That's where the hunters pushed the deer to during

1640
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 1: preseason scouting ventures. In early season mounting, that's where the

1641
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 1: deer are pushed to not only mature bucks, but mature

1642
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:44,560
Speaker 1: does as well. Because it typically if you're hunting in

1643
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: a pressured area, there's a lot of hunters are targeting dose.

1644
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 1: They're targeting everything, you know. It's unlike managed property where

1645
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: they're only targeting mature bucks. Typically, in pressured areas, a

1646
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 1: lot of the hunters are targeting any legal landward buck,

1647
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 1: and a lot of them are targeting dose. During any

1648
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:05,080
Speaker 1: time of the season, So you gotta pretend everybody's trying

1649
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: to kill you. And where's the places on this property

1650
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: where I might feel comfortable with getting up and moving

1651
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 1: during daylight hours. That's the easiest way to put it.

1652
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: That's a healthful exercise. I definitely think that's a that's

1653
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 1: a good way to think about it when trying to

1654
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: figure this out for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, because it takes

1655
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: everything down to its simplest point in my opinion. All Right,

1656
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 1: so let's continue. We've we talked early mid rut time period. Uh.

1657
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 1: That's important timing, right, figuring out where to hunt at

1658
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: the right time of year. But I also know other factors,

1659
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 1: at least in my hunting are really important as to

1660
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: when I go into some of these spots I've prepared. Um.

1661
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: We've talked in the past about the fact that you

1662
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: like hunting and preceptation, rain and snow. Um, but we

1663
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: didn't really get to a couple other factors like cold

1664
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: fronts or bare back of pressure or the moon some

1665
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: of these other things that other hunters talk about. Do

1666
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 1: any of those things factor into when or how often

1667
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:05,120
Speaker 1: you hunt? No, not at all. Uh, Nope, I paid

1668
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: zero attention to moon phase. When I have a day

1669
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 1: off to hunt, and I feel the circumstances are right,

1670
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:16,679
Speaker 1: and it's the right seasonal time of season, and it's

1671
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 1: the right time of day for that particular location, I

1672
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: go hunted. Um. Back in the sixties, when I was

1673
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: in high school, I used to go shining a lot,

1674
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 1: and it was very common back then. You don't see

1675
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: it much anymore, but I mean, it was not uncommon

1676
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 1: to see three people shining the same field back then,

1677
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: and and it was there was one thing that I

1678
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:43,440
Speaker 1: always paid attention to. I always paid attention to weather conditions.

1679
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: If it was a rainy night, I saw a lot

1680
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 1: more dear activity, and I saw a lot more buck activity.

1681
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 1: If it was a full moon, I saw very minimal

1682
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 1: buck activity. I'd see dough activity, but I wouldn't see

1683
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: bucks out at night. Um, at least not any two

1684
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 1: and a half year old. Back then, you two and

1685
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 1: ALFs were about as good as good as it got,

1686
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:08,800
Speaker 1: so you wouldn't see any two and a half year

1687
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 1: old bucks. But if it was a full moon and

1688
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:15,640
Speaker 1: it was overcast or it was raining at night, I

1689
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 1: would see the deer. So it wasn't necessarily the full

1690
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: moon phase that stopped them from moving being out there

1691
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: at night after dark. It was just that it was

1692
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:35,679
Speaker 1: so bright out. So I think the full moon thing

1693
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 1: is not that big a deal. It may affect when

1694
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: the actual rout phase is that I do not know,

1695
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: and neither does anybody else. But during a when there

1696
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: is a full moon, I have found and there and

1697
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 1: there's no cloud cover. I have found the next day,

1698
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: during the day, mid day to be a really good

1699
01:30:56,280 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: time hunt because the nighttime movements were very minimal. The

1700
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 1: next day, daytime movements are a little bit stronger than

1701
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:07,920
Speaker 1: normal during the Rod phases. And I'm not talking about

1702
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,639
Speaker 1: early season or you know, October low. I'm talking about

1703
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: Rod phase. The During the Rod phases, the daytime activity

1704
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:18,240
Speaker 1: was a lot better, especially during midday. And that was

1705
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I miss it. That was

1706
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 1: the day after full moon. Yes, that was that would

1707
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: be the day after There was a full moon that

1708
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: night the previous night with no cloud cover and as

1709
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 1: far as windy, rainy, unless there's a tornado. If I've

1710
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: got the day off, I'm hunting. I've killed deer in

1711
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: thirty five mile winds when it was probably a wind

1712
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 1: chill at three below zero of hunted of killed deer.

1713
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 1: In rainy conditions, my preference is a drizzly day, just

1714
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 1: a nice steady drizzle. You don't see as many deer,

1715
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:58,679
Speaker 1: but bucks tend to move better in that type of weather. Yes,

1716
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 1: I see more doze and in subordinate bucks on nice

1717
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: bluebird days. But as far as seeing mature bucks, I

1718
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 1: definitely see more mature bucks in inclement weather than I

1719
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,559
Speaker 1: do in nice sunny day weathers. Because if it's sunny

1720
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: and it's calm out a mature buck and you know

1721
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 1: this mark as well as anybody. Every time a mature

1722
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 1: buck takes a step, they crunch leaves and they stand

1723
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 1: there and wait for a reaction. And when it's raining

1724
01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 1: and the grounds weather, it's windy and and they're not

1725
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:35,679
Speaker 1: concerned about their noise. Ah, they moved steadily through the woods.

1726
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: They don't. They don't stop and wait for a reaction

1727
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 1: to every step they takes. Yeah, I've definitely seen the

1728
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: same thing. It's those kind of nasty days, like you said,

1729
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: there's drizzles, cool, drizzly, or some rain coming on in

1730
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 1: and out. Those almost always are the days I'm seeing

1731
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 1: a mature buck. If I'm going to see a mature

1732
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,799
Speaker 1: buck during the year eight times at ten, it's probably

1733
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: gonna be a day like that. Yep. But that one,

1734
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you this one one. I may have

1735
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:05,720
Speaker 1: mentioned it on the last podcast. I don't know, but

1736
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 1: I was hunting in Illinois on state land with a

1737
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 1: forty poundbo because I messed up my shoulder that year.

1738
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 1: And this was in December, so it was a late season,

1739
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: after gunning season, and it was this was that thirty

1740
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: five win day with seven degrees when I left the hotel,

1741
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:29,600
Speaker 1: and that was without a windshill, thirty five winds. I

1742
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 1: was so cold. I had so many clothes. I had

1743
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 1: on five body warmers, and about a half hour before dark,

1744
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen a thing. And I'm sitting in a

1745
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 1: big oak tree next to a locust tree. Seven seven

1746
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: seventeen yards from me is a locust tree with those

1747
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: big long beans. And I almost got out of the

1748
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 1: tree and went back at the hotel. But I sat

1749
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 1: there and I thought to myself, you know what, I know,

1750
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill anything in the hotel. I've

1751
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: only got a half hour to forty five minutes left

1752
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: to sit here and suffer. So I'm just gonna sit

1753
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 1: here and suffer. I saw five bucks in that last

1754
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: half hour, and one of them was a twelve point

1755
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 1: and I killed him. He was a monster. Twelve point,

1756
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: just perfect twelve point makes it all worth it. Oh,

1757
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 1: you got that right, A well earned reward, I imagine. Yes. Yeah.

1758
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 1: And the guy that I was running with, I was

1759
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 1: actually hunting with a guy. Took a guy down there

1760
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: with me, which was kind of rare, and he was

1761
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: he couldn't believe we were even hunting it now like

1762
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:40,960
Speaker 1: you're nuts. I'm going you don't have to go all

1763
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 1: things being equal, let's take let's take weather out of it.

1764
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: Let's take precipitation, all that kind of stuff out of it. Um,

1765
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: if you had to just pick let's say three days

1766
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 1: during the season, if you had to pick the three

1767
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:54,640
Speaker 1: very best days of this season, you had to be

1768
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 1: in a tree, what would those three days be? Halloween,

1769
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 1: which I leave is the beginning typically you know the

1770
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: weather based of course, uh, beginning of pre rut. I'm

1771
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 1: a big pre rut guy because dear mature bucks have

1772
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: a routine during pre run. Once once the peak rut

1773
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,760
Speaker 1: starts and all the mature all the most of the

1774
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:19,360
Speaker 1: doses are coming into heat, all the routines go out

1775
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: the window. They're chasing those on you know routines that

1776
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 1: there are no routines. So I'd say Halloween through the

1777
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: fifth of November that those are my favorite time and

1778
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: I and Opening Day. I love Opening Day because I

1779
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:38,799
Speaker 1: look forward to it so much. Okay, speaking of those routines, UM,

1780
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 1: do you I've heard a couple I think as I'm

1781
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:42,880
Speaker 1: thinking back through some stories and stuff, I feel like

1782
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:44,920
Speaker 1: I've heard a couple of examples where you've talked about,

1783
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, zeroing in a little bit on a specific deer.

1784
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 1: But how often do you actually pattern a specific deer

1785
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 1: over the course of a season or a few hunts? Um,

1786
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: Is that a big part of what you're doing or

1787
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 1: are you jumping from place to place and you know

1788
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:00,800
Speaker 1: if he's showing up, it's cann me out one day

1789
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:05,160
Speaker 1: and you kill them. I rarely patterned deer. I rarely

1790
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,840
Speaker 1: look for deer. I rarely put out motion cameras, uh

1791
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: to see what's there. Um, I'm hunting destination locations where

1792
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 1: there's dough traffic, and I know if there's do traffic,

1793
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:18,639
Speaker 1: the best bucks in the area aren't going to come

1794
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: through there. So I'm I'm specifically targeting destination locations and

1795
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: sign That's what I do now when I go out west,

1796
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:30,479
Speaker 1: when I go to Kansas or Iowa, I hunt my cameras.

1797
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 1: I hang cameras at every location. And I totally hunt

1798
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 1: my cameras because I can check them every day and

1799
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 1: the deer I hate to use the word stupid, but

1800
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 1: they don't care. I can go in and intrude my

1801
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 1: spots and it doesn't seem to make any difference on

1802
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: the deer activity in in in pressure areas, that's just

1803
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:52,559
Speaker 1: not the case. So so out there, I totally hunt

1804
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,680
Speaker 1: my cameras on what I'm seeing on my cameras. And

1805
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: in Michigan, I'm totally hunting destination spots. I'm hunting destination

1806
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: spot out there too. I'm hunting primary scraper is for

1807
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 1: the most part, or rub lines or something or pinch

1808
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 1: points and draws. But um, in Michigan, it's it's totally

1809
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:15,800
Speaker 1: destination areas. Michigan. Then last year, UM, if I if

1810
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 1: I heard you correctly a little bit earlier before we

1811
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 1: start recording, you mentioned that you killed two bucks last

1812
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,040
Speaker 1: year in Michigan with your bow. One I think you

1813
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: mentioned was la October one was like the second week

1814
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: of November. Could you tell us the story of both

1815
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 1: of us hunts, how specifically those came together, why you

1816
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:36,760
Speaker 1: were successful on those those hunts. Well, the one was

1817
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:39,160
Speaker 1: a ten point and that was on Halloween. I just

1818
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 1: mentioned Halloween a minute ago. I was on Halloween evening

1819
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: and I had seen this buck in a different part

1820
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 1: of the property, thirty seven acre parcel. I've seen him

1821
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 1: over on the other side of the property. Oh god,

1822
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,720
Speaker 1: second or third day of season, walking along the edge

1823
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 1: of the standing cornfield. Oh this once. Remember me telling

1824
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 1: you about the apple tree a while ago where I've

1825
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: got it cleaned out through the to the opposite side. Okay,

1826
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,639
Speaker 1: Halloween night, my first set at this tree. I'm sitting

1827
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: in this red oak next to this apple tree. And

1828
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: just like I said, he came out through the heavy

1829
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:23,439
Speaker 1: cover on the opposite side of the tree. He fed

1830
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the tree for maybe three minutes,

1831
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 1: eight three or four apples, turned around and went right

1832
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: back the where he came from. And because he was

1833
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 1: always facing me, I did not get a shot. He'd

1834
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:38,599
Speaker 1: never turned broadside. So and that was that was probably

1835
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 1: an hour and a half before before dark, and uh,

1836
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 1: just about the time I was getting ready to think

1837
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 1: about getting out of the tree, I heard a doll

1838
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:52,599
Speaker 1: coming and coming down through the swamp. She ran right

1839
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:56,360
Speaker 1: through the opening. Remember me saying on the side of

1840
01:38:56,360 --> 01:39:00,560
Speaker 1: the tree that I'm on. The apple tree on eyeside

1841
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 1: was open and it kind of a little downhill slide,

1842
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 1: but it was wide open. She ran right through there,

1843
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 1: right through that opening. And it wasn't twenty seconds later

1844
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 1: I heard a running and you know, I didn't know

1845
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: it was going to be that dear, but obviously I

1846
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 1: got ready and it was that that ten point and

1847
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:22,639
Speaker 1: I shot him. Um, he was going. He was falling

1848
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 1: exactly obviously, and nose to the ground following her and

1849
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: I came a full draw and I made a man

1850
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: and he stopped and I shot him. And then the

1851
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 1: second one was on a two acre parcel that I

1852
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 1: had just gotten permission from and it just happened to

1853
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 1: be a spot where there was it was the headlands

1854
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: of a big cattail marsh, and um, I prepped a

1855
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,280
Speaker 1: tree there and there was some rubs and stuff in

1856
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,479
Speaker 1: that area, probably just prior to season. When I went

1857
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: and speed toward it, and I sat in that tree.

1858
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:58,400
Speaker 1: First time I sat in that tree, it was I

1859
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:01,960
Speaker 1: think it was November ten through eleventh, and it was

1860
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: pretty late. It was like a quarter to ten maybe,

1861
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: you know. I'd seen two little bucks going to the

1862
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:11,280
Speaker 1: cat Tail Marsh, and about a quarter to ten uh,

1863
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 1: out of that cat Tail Marsh came this eleven point

1864
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 1: and I did not know he was in the area

1865
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:23,160
Speaker 1: at all. I've never seen him, and he was chasing

1866
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:25,600
Speaker 1: some dolls around and I shot him at about I

1867
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 1: don't know, twelve twelve yards maybe, and he ended up

1868
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 1: I shot him a little too far back, and he

1869
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:33,679
Speaker 1: ended up dying in some uh a little pond. Anytime

1870
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 1: you hit a deer, I hit him in the liver,

1871
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: and anytime he hit a deer too far back, they

1872
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: gave him a lot of time, and he ended up

1873
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 1: dying in that pond because they liked to soothe their wound.

1874
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 1: I think the cool water. Why do you think or

1875
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 1: why I'm curious why you set up there. You mentioned

1876
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:50,719
Speaker 1: it was near cat Tail Marsh and you saw some rubs.

1877
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,200
Speaker 1: Um was that? Was it just that that made you

1878
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 1: set up there? Or did you did you think there's

1879
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 1: some betting in the marsh or can you leverage a

1880
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 1: little bit on specifically why you dropped that tree where

1881
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 1: you did. Yeah, anytime, any time you have a dry

1882
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,599
Speaker 1: marsh cat tail marsh, dey are going to bet in it.

1883
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:07,080
Speaker 1: If you're in a pressured area and there's a dry

1884
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:09,320
Speaker 1: cat tail marsh, de're gonna bet in it. So I

1885
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 1: knew there was going to be dear betting in it.

1886
01:41:11,479 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 1: And there was some timber that butted up to this

1887
01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:18,479
Speaker 1: cattail marsh right on the corner of this little two

1888
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: acre parcels. So I went in and I set up

1889
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 1: a tree postseason, and I didn't hunt it until November.

1890
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 1: And I did hunt it one other time in November,

1891
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:33,960
Speaker 1: and I did not see him. I think I saw

1892
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:37,080
Speaker 1: a little late pointer in a four point. But then

1893
01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:39,679
Speaker 1: the second time I went back and for the morning hunt,

1894
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: and it's primarily a morning spot um, and I was

1895
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 1: in there probably two hours before daylight. He came through

1896
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:52,559
Speaker 1: the quarter at quarter ten o'clock. Now I'm making an

1897
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:55,360
Speaker 1: assumption here, but I feel like if I'm like making

1898
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:57,840
Speaker 1: an assumption about the average deer hunter, and maybe if

1899
01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:00,240
Speaker 1: I'm I'm basing that on maybe what I used to

1900
01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:02,400
Speaker 1: do ten years ago or something would be. You know,

1901
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 1: I've got my one property hunt and maybe I've got

1902
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:07,479
Speaker 1: my best stand or my best two stands. And so

1903
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 1: when it gets to that rut, it's the first week

1904
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:12,040
Speaker 1: in November something, I'm gonna be sitting there over and

1905
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:13,720
Speaker 1: over and over again, because that's where I think all

1906
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:16,680
Speaker 1: these deer going to be. UM. When I hear you

1907
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:19,320
Speaker 1: talk about the way you're hunting, and I read your things,

1908
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you are bouncing from place

1909
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 1: to place often, um, and that you're not hunting the

1910
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:27,679
Speaker 1: same place over and over and over again. Is that accurate?

1911
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:29,519
Speaker 1: And even during the rut it sounds like you're on

1912
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:31,240
Speaker 1: this property for a hunt or two and then over

1913
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 1: on this stand farther away or that property. Um. Is

1914
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 1: that accurate? Or that's very accurate. But I have to

1915
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:44,639
Speaker 1: put a disclaimer in there, because if I'm hunting, let's

1916
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: say an apple tree that's been dropping apples for a

1917
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:50,600
Speaker 1: few weeks and it's got you know, there's three or

1918
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:53,640
Speaker 1: four scrapes there, it's a primary scrape, and I hunt it,

1919
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, to Let's say I go in there in

1920
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 1: November and I hunted, and I see three or four

1921
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:03,720
Speaker 1: dolls and some some fauns and a subordinate buck. Uh,

1922
01:43:04,280 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 1: And I didn't spook anything because of my entry and

1923
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:10,240
Speaker 1: exit routes, I didn't spook anything. I'll hunt it again.

1924
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:12,639
Speaker 1: Then the very next hunt, I'll hunt that spot again.

1925
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 1: If it's a morning spot hunt, it's the next morning.

1926
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:16,519
Speaker 1: If it's a morning and an evening spot, I'll come

1927
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:19,880
Speaker 1: back and hunt it that evening. And as long as

1928
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing a difference in my visual deer sightings

1929
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: and the activity remains the same, i will continue to

1930
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 1: hunt that spot. As soon as I see where my

1931
01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: intrusions are affecting the dough traffic at that spot, I'll

1932
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: go hunt someplace else and put that one off for

1933
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 1: a week. So it totally is depending upon my visual

1934
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:46,360
Speaker 1: sightings and the active you know, the scrapes being actively hit,

1935
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 1: you know at night, because you know he may be

1936
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 1: with a dough. The buck that I'm pursuing maybe with

1937
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:54,759
Speaker 1: a dough during her twenty eight to thirty two hour cycle,

1938
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 1: so you know, my kinding maybe off. You know, just

1939
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 1: because you hunted spot does mean he's gonna come through

1940
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,519
Speaker 1: there that time. He may be doing something else someplace else,

1941
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:08,599
Speaker 1: So as long as you're not interrupting the activity. It's

1942
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 1: okay to hunt a spot three or four times in

1943
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 1: a row, and you know, because then there's a good

1944
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 1: chance he's going to come through one of those times,

1945
01:44:16,360 --> 01:44:18,840
Speaker 1: because if he wasn't with a hot dough, she's gonna

1946
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 1: be out of her cycle, and then he may be

1947
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: searching for the next one and come and check out

1948
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 1: that scrape area in doing so. Yeah, to your point,

1949
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: atually depends on the situation, But yes, I do like

1950
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:31,600
Speaker 1: to bounce around a lot so that I'm not you know,

1951
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:34,000
Speaker 1: even though I'm not worried about my cent, you're still

1952
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:37,000
Speaker 1: making a visual or not a visual, but you're still

1953
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 1: making an intrusion. You know, you may be spooking something

1954
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,439
Speaker 1: with an entry or whether you're exit. I try not to,

1955
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:45,160
Speaker 1: but as you well know, that's impossible not to do

1956
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 1: all the time. So stuff happens, that's for sure. Yes, absolutely,

1957
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious. Um, I want to want to

1958
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:55,880
Speaker 1: shift a little bit for just a moment here before

1959
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:57,599
Speaker 1: we wrap this up, since I've kept you a pretty

1960
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 1: long time here. But you did mention um, you know

1961
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 1: the fact that you are hunting differently when you had

1962
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,920
Speaker 1: to you know, farther west, some of these other states

1963
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:08,200
Speaker 1: like Kansas or I or or whatnot. Um, can you

1964
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 1: give us like a the Eberhart Way one on one

1965
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 1: on pulling off these d I y hunts to the

1966
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,160
Speaker 1: less pressured Midwest? You know how you pull off these

1967
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:22,360
Speaker 1: weeklong hunts. Oh yeah, I do not go out in

1968
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:26,840
Speaker 1: pre scout. Uh. I've been hunting Kansas now. I've got

1969
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:29,760
Speaker 1: two or three farms, the free permission farms. Again, I've

1970
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 1: never paid on any place in my life. Um, and

1971
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 1: so I kind of know the locations already. I know

1972
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 1: the areas, and primarily in Kansas, it's a lot of draws.

1973
01:45:39,040 --> 01:45:42,559
Speaker 1: You know, ninety five per cent of property out there

1974
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:46,519
Speaker 1: is in crops or weed fields or CPR, and there's

1975
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:49,080
Speaker 1: not a lot of timber. And that's what I love,

1976
01:45:49,439 --> 01:45:51,360
Speaker 1: you know. So anytime you see a draw, there maybe

1977
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:53,680
Speaker 1: a draw every half a mile or three cords of

1978
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:56,879
Speaker 1: a mile, and it just kind of meanders through the sections.

1979
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:00,280
Speaker 1: And those draws have pinch points and they have rights.

1980
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:04,360
Speaker 1: That's basically during the daylight hours, you know, the deer

1981
01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 1: are kind of they're not up on the flats and

1982
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:09,040
Speaker 1: the crops, they're down in those draws. That's where they

1983
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 1: bet because there's a lot of weeds. It's more moist

1984
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:13,880
Speaker 1: down there, it's more fertile, and that's where the dear

1985
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 1: bed and that's where they transition through. So it's very simple.

1986
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:18,960
Speaker 1: You just kind of walk me indus through those draws.

1987
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:23,520
Speaker 1: On your first day there, leave scouting and prepping locations,

1988
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 1: and you prepare whatever locations and the tightest pinch points possible,

1989
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:30,040
Speaker 1: and you just put a camera and on him accordingly,

1990
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:36,160
Speaker 1: and typically will always out there. There's always scrapes and rubs. Always,

1991
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 1: there's so many mature bucks. There's always scrapes and rubs.

1992
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 1: So it's just getting access to some decent properties and

1993
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:46,960
Speaker 1: walk on properties or whatever. Blowing off your first day

1994
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,360
Speaker 1: even day and a half. That's one mistake a lot

1995
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: of people make because they go out there and they

1996
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:54,400
Speaker 1: feel like, oh my god, I've got to hunt this evening. No,

1997
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:59,280
Speaker 1: don't worry about this evening, don't stress out totally. Spend

1998
01:46:59,320 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 1: the first day scouting and prepping locations, and then haunt

1999
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 1: according to what you visually see on the locations you're prepped.

2000
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:08,400
Speaker 1: I usually will set up blow off the first day

2001
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:11,640
Speaker 1: and a half, set up the nine or ten eleven locations,

2002
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 1: put cameras at each and then hunt according to what

2003
01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:16,760
Speaker 1: I see in the cameras. Can you elaborate on the

2004
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:20,519
Speaker 1: camera strategy? Are you know, are you putting these actually

2005
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,479
Speaker 1: at the tree stand location? And how often are you

2006
01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 1: checking those to make decisions? We are putting them And

2007
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:30,080
Speaker 1: then when I say we, my son John and another

2008
01:47:30,080 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 1: friend of mine go out, have been going out there

2009
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,559
Speaker 1: last few years, and we put them at the actual

2010
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:37,679
Speaker 1: hunting location correct right that we have them targeted right

2011
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:40,519
Speaker 1: at either the runways in the tightest part of the

2012
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:43,680
Speaker 1: funnel or at the scrape areas themselves. And then we

2013
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:47,320
Speaker 1: will visit those cameras every day, and it's not uncommon

2014
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:49,679
Speaker 1: for us to drive to those cameras, which you would

2015
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: never do in Michigan, and we will check the cameras

2016
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:56,519
Speaker 1: and we might even spook deer when we're driving or

2017
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 1: walking in checking cameras. And it just doesn't seem to

2018
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:02,040
Speaker 1: matter because there's the rut out there because there's so

2019
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 1: many mature bucks in the buck of door ratio mature

2020
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:06,600
Speaker 1: buck to mature doll ratio is so close to me,

2021
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:09,719
Speaker 1: and even the rut is so competitive, it just doesn't

2022
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 1: seem to make any difference. You know, you get in

2023
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:15,280
Speaker 1: a pressure area. There's so few mature bucks in and

2024
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:17,920
Speaker 1: the rut is not that competitive for the dominant bucks

2025
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:20,960
Speaker 1: because they just don't have much competition out there. There's

2026
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 1: a ton of competition. And even if you both the

2027
01:48:24,280 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 1: deer up, they they still continue to move, you know,

2028
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:29,920
Speaker 1: the next day or even that evening through that thing area.

2029
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 1: And at that time of year two a lot of

2030
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:34,160
Speaker 1: the activity. You could have a buck coming through that

2031
01:48:34,280 --> 01:48:36,559
Speaker 1: was half a mile or a mile away yesterday. When

2032
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:39,720
Speaker 1: you check the cameras. Now when he comes through, he

2033
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:42,599
Speaker 1: has no idea what was going on there yesterday, right, Yeah,

2034
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:45,640
Speaker 1: And that's that's a very good point mark because it

2035
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 1: is very common out there for us to put up

2036
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 1: a camera and get the same buck on cameras two

2037
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:56,719
Speaker 1: and a half miles apart in one day. Because the draws,

2038
01:48:56,960 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, up in the crop fields, up in the flat.

2039
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:04,160
Speaker 1: You know that once the deer all converged down into

2040
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:07,000
Speaker 1: the draws during the daytime, which is five of the

2041
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:11,000
Speaker 1: landscape at best, they travel a long waist through those draws.

2042
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:14,840
Speaker 1: The draws run for miles, and so it's not uncommon

2043
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:18,200
Speaker 1: whatsoever to get pictures of the same bucket, you know,

2044
01:49:18,479 --> 01:49:21,240
Speaker 1: a couple of miles apart. Yeah, it's pretty incredible how

2045
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:25,519
Speaker 1: much they move different. Yeah, it's refracting, let me put

2046
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:29,559
Speaker 1: it that way, because it's so easy. I do enjoy

2047
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 1: any trip to somewhere different than Michigan, just because you know,

2048
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:35,960
Speaker 1: it is very different, and and the just the if

2049
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,719
Speaker 1: nothing else was different, just the number of mature bucks,

2050
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 1: the target, the pool of potential targets is so much

2051
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:45,960
Speaker 1: larger that you just see different behavior and it's just

2052
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:47,880
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I always encourage anyone if you

2053
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 1: hunt in a state like Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, or

2054
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:53,559
Speaker 1: the Northeast or somewhere like that, it's worth saving up

2055
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: some money and time to to do a trip like

2056
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 1: this to experience it, because it's just fun. It's different

2057
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:01,320
Speaker 1: and it's a lot of fun. It's like being single

2058
01:50:01,479 --> 01:50:04,600
Speaker 1: and going into a bar. You're the first guy in

2059
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:08,360
Speaker 1: a bar after the Chippendale's performed, and it's nothing but

2060
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 1: women in there, and they're all crazy. I think, I

2061
01:50:13,200 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: think you just got a lot of guys to buy

2062
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:17,360
Speaker 1: a plane ticket out to Kansas or Iowa. Now after

2063
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 1: that analogy, well that's a good analogy. Is that very true?

2064
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:30,000
Speaker 1: Very true? All right? So John, this is uh as

2065
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:32,280
Speaker 1: I knew it would be. This has been really interesting.

2066
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:36,160
Speaker 1: I wanna ask one final question, and that is, of

2067
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:38,880
Speaker 1: everything we've talked about, or maybe things we haven't talked about,

2068
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 1: if there was like one thing that you could get

2069
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:44,559
Speaker 1: the average haner to change, or if there was just

2070
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:47,519
Speaker 1: one parting word of wisdom, or maybe it's the one

2071
01:50:47,560 --> 01:50:49,840
Speaker 1: thing that you see that separates the average honer from

2072
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:52,400
Speaker 1: the best hunters. You know, what's that one thing you

2073
01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:54,680
Speaker 1: want everyone to walk away from this conversation with and

2074
01:50:54,920 --> 01:51:01,799
Speaker 1: take action on. That is really easy sent control period,

2075
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:06,040
Speaker 1: end of discussion. If you can control your sun where

2076
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:08,040
Speaker 1: you don't have to pay attention to the wind, that

2077
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:11,400
Speaker 1: makes a monstrous difference, and it can be done. Most

2078
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:14,800
Speaker 1: people think it's a scam. That is absolutely not true.

2079
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,160
Speaker 1: It is not a scam. It can be done. I

2080
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:19,719
Speaker 1: do it all the time. I do not pay attention

2081
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:23,400
Speaker 1: to wind, and that makes hunting so much easier. I

2082
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:25,519
Speaker 1: every time you say that, it kind of blows my

2083
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:27,240
Speaker 1: mind a little bit. It's hard to believe that, but

2084
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 1: I will take your word for it. John. I know

2085
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:32,720
Speaker 1: my workshops, my workshops, both on the infield day and

2086
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: on the sum of our day. I'm going to go

2087
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,760
Speaker 1: over sun control with a fine tooth comb. I think

2088
01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:40,760
Speaker 1: I do not disagree with you at all, and the

2089
01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:44,360
Speaker 1: fact that everything you possibly can do to manage that

2090
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: sunk control, just like anything I think if we like.

2091
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 1: Maybe the moral of a lot of what we talked

2092
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:51,360
Speaker 1: about here is that the details matter, right, It's it's

2093
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 1: paying attention to the little things. It's being attentive to

2094
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:57,360
Speaker 1: all every little piece of the puzzle matters, and sink

2095
01:51:57,400 --> 01:51:59,519
Speaker 1: controls is a very important piece of that. And if

2096
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:01,760
Speaker 1: you can push the odds a little bit more in

2097
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 1: your favor with that, that's gonna you know what blows

2098
01:52:03,880 --> 01:52:06,880
Speaker 1: me away? Mark. You know, I watched the TV shows,

2099
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: even the guys being sponsored by Sunlock. They got beards exposed,

2100
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:14,000
Speaker 1: faces exposed. Next they wear a logo cap with their

2101
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:16,920
Speaker 1: hair hanging out. You know, any one of those things

2102
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:19,120
Speaker 1: they were face paint to look cool. Any one of

2103
01:52:19,160 --> 01:52:22,240
Speaker 1: those things totally in the gates. Everything else you've done.

2104
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:24,559
Speaker 1: On the suntlock side, you can be wearing a perfectly

2105
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:28,240
Speaker 1: pristine suntlock jack and pants, rubber boots. You can have

2106
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:31,120
Speaker 1: a sunlocked backpack, And if you've got any one of

2107
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 1: those other flaws, you better pay attention to the wind

2108
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:37,439
Speaker 1: or you're gonna get busted, or you may have sent

2109
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:41,400
Speaker 1: control regiment. You were in the proper headgear with dropped

2110
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:44,320
Speaker 1: out face mask, You've got your mouth covered, your next covered,

2111
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:47,200
Speaker 1: everything's covered, your boots, and yet you go out there

2112
01:52:47,200 --> 01:52:49,680
Speaker 1: with a backpack that you've never washed. You get into

2113
01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:51,639
Speaker 1: it with your bare hands every day. So you've got

2114
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:53,680
Speaker 1: this huge human scent wick in the tree with you.

2115
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: And then if you get win, did you blame it

2116
01:52:55,080 --> 01:53:00,560
Speaker 1: on your suntlock suit when in reality, if your backpacks,

2117
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 1: it's all of it's all a matter of degree. If

2118
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 1: you don't do it correctly, you better pay attention to

2119
01:53:07,479 --> 01:53:10,000
Speaker 1: the wind. And if you get busted because you didn't

2120
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:11,960
Speaker 1: do it correctly, don't blame it on the suit. Blame

2121
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:14,600
Speaker 1: it on yourself. It's your fault. Right. Yeah, there's a

2122
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 1: lot of again, the little things, even your your bow

2123
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 1: release or your poll rope, anything like that. So I've

2124
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:26,360
Speaker 1: been busted years ago because of my bowl rope. So

2125
01:53:26,479 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 1: that's that's a great point. Well, John, If people want

2126
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:31,439
Speaker 1: to check out these workshops or if they want to

2127
01:53:31,439 --> 01:53:33,360
Speaker 1: pick up your books or your DVDs. Can you just

2128
01:53:33,400 --> 01:53:35,280
Speaker 1: remind us again what that website was that we should

2129
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:38,080
Speaker 1: that we can go to. Yeah, you can google my

2130
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:40,640
Speaker 1: name Johnny berharton and I'm sure it'll pop up. Or

2131
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:46,000
Speaker 1: the easiest one would be www dot d E E

2132
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:51,400
Speaker 1: R dash, the little hyphen j O h n dot

2133
01:53:51,439 --> 01:53:57,320
Speaker 1: net perfect deer John Deer hyphen John dot net. Or

2134
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:00,240
Speaker 1: you can you can be you can call me on

2135
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:06,120
Speaker 1: my phone number at nine six four four six zero

2136
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:08,840
Speaker 1: six seven. I'd be more than happy to talk to

2137
01:54:08,840 --> 01:54:11,559
Speaker 1: you about it. That's a dangerous move you did there, John,

2138
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:14,519
Speaker 1: That's I don't know. I'm impressed that you're willing to

2139
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:19,599
Speaker 1: share the phone number. That's good. Well, that's awesome. Well, John,

2140
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:23,120
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. Um, this is always an

2141
01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:26,040
Speaker 1: interesting chat with you, and this definitely lived up to that.

2142
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:29,639
Speaker 1: So I appreciate it, and I hope you have another

2143
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:33,920
Speaker 1: great season this year. Good hunting everybody out there, absolutely

2144
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:37,200
Speaker 1: and that is going to be it. I hope you

2145
01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:39,320
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one as much as I did. And like

2146
01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:41,680
Speaker 1: I said in the intro, take a listen after this

2147
01:54:41,840 --> 01:54:45,280
Speaker 1: to the Mark Drewy episode I mentioned. Obviously, these two

2148
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:48,040
Speaker 1: guys hunting very differently and are in very different places

2149
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:51,600
Speaker 1: and circumstances, but it offers an interesting study in contrast

2150
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:54,680
Speaker 1: and a good example for us to look at. And

2151
01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 1: I just think it's good stuff all across the board.

2152
01:54:56,760 --> 01:54:59,880
Speaker 1: We can learn different things from each and I think

2153
01:54:59,880 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 1: that it is pretty cool. So I also want to

2154
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:04,400
Speaker 1: remind you all that I will be at the two

2155
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:09,960
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen Quality Deer Management Association National Convention later this month,

2156
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 1: and I really really would like to see a bunch

2157
01:55:12,480 --> 01:55:15,560
Speaker 1: of you there. I'm speaking and recording a live podcast

2158
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:18,680
Speaker 1: on July one, and we're gonna be doing some live

2159
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:20,560
Speaker 1: Q and A from audience members, So it would be

2160
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:22,640
Speaker 1: super cool if some of you were there to ask

2161
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,080
Speaker 1: your questions and to be in the podcast. So head

2162
01:55:25,120 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 1: over to q d m A dot com as soon

2163
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 1: as possible to learn more and a register for the event. Again,

2164
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:34,360
Speaker 1: that's July one, it's down in New Orleans. It's gonna

2165
01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:36,240
Speaker 1: be a good time. I would love to see you there.

2166
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,360
Speaker 1: And finally, I want to offer a big thank you too.

2167
01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:43,600
Speaker 1: Sick a gear YETI Coolers. Matthews Archery, Maven Optics, White

2168
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:47,320
Speaker 1: Tail Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and hunt Terra

2169
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:50,520
Speaker 1: maps and of course thank you to all of you listening.

2170
01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:53,520
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, I appreciate your support. I hope

2171
01:55:53,560 --> 01:55:57,760
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this one and until next time, stay wired

2172
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:02,440
Speaker 1: to the port to be compet