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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go farther, stay longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by legendary whitetail bow hunter Andy

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Speaker 2: May to discuss the scouting strategies and philosophies that separate

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Speaker 2: the elite deer hunter from the average. All right, welcome

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Speaker 2: back to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by

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Speaker 2: First Light. Today we are talking scouting, all things scouting,

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Speaker 2: and we are joined by one of the very best

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Speaker 2: in the business, my good friend and one of the

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Speaker 2: most renowned, well respected DIY whitetail bow hunter in the world,

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Speaker 2: the one and only Andy May, and our discussion today

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Speaker 2: is going to revolve around the next level or two

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Speaker 2: of scouting. Not the surface level, not the beginner, not

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Speaker 2: the basics of where to scout, what to scout, what

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Speaker 2: sign means, but rather how do you go from being

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Speaker 2: a pretty good scout of white tail sign and of

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Speaker 2: a property and of a deer and instead become elitd

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Speaker 2: What were some of the changes that Andy May had

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Speaker 2: to go through to go from average to great? What

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Speaker 2: are the things that he wished he had known sooner?

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Speaker 2: How do you actually look at all of this, look

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Speaker 2: at all these different pieces of the puzzle and put

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Speaker 2: them together into a cohesive plan and understanding of an area.

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Speaker 2: We discuss all of this and much much more today,

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Speaker 2: with of course a focus on spring scouting, since that's

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Speaker 2: the time of year we're living in right now, but

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Speaker 2: much of this could be applied to the rest of

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Speaker 2: the deer hunting year as well, So we dive into

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Speaker 2: everything from the differences between Andy May ten twenty years

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Speaker 2: ago and what he does now. We discuss different things

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Speaker 2: as far as what he looks at that the average

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Speaker 2: deer hunter maybe doesn't. We discuss what I just mentioned

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Speaker 2: there a second ago, which is connecting all the dots

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Speaker 2: into a single cohesive understanding. We discuss some conventional wisdom

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Speaker 2: around scouting and where some of those things might be wrong.

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Speaker 2: We discuss some of the changes that Andy has been

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Speaker 2: making now with how he scouts because of the increasing

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Speaker 2: understanding that everybody else has about deer behavior or reading

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Speaker 2: maps for understanding where eigh quality deer hunting areas might be,

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Speaker 2: and a whole lot more than that. I will leave

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Speaker 2: it with this. Andy is one of the best in

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Speaker 2: the business. And he's not just a great deer hunter

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Speaker 2: and understander of deer behavior, but also a humble, kind

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Speaker 2: human being. So he's a good person to talk to.

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Speaker 2: He's a great person to listen to, and I think

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Speaker 2: you guys are going to enjoy this podcast. Without any

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Speaker 2: further ado, let's get to my scouting discussion with Andy May.

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Speaker 2: All right, back with me on the show after too

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Speaker 2: long of an absence is the one and only Andy May.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, Bardy.

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Speaker 4: Good to be here, man, it has I didn't realize

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Speaker 4: it's been so long. But yeah, I mean we used

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Speaker 4: to you know, we used to try to do a

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Speaker 4: couple of year, you know, and it's uh, gets by,

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Speaker 4: and but yeah, it's good.

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Speaker 3: Good to catch up with you always.

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Speaker 2: Well it's it's funny, you know, we've we've done so

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Speaker 2: many of these, and I know that you are in

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Speaker 2: such high demand with every deer hunting podcast that I

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Speaker 2: think I've started feeling bad asking you to do them

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Speaker 2: because I know that you're getting these all the time.

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Speaker 2: So all that said, I finally was like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna feel bad anymore. I'm gonna get Andy

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Speaker 2: May on the horn. We got to catch up. The

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Speaker 2: world needs to hear from him on this podcast. But

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Speaker 2: in all seriousness, I'm glad it worked out. I appreciate

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Speaker 2: you making the time, and what I want to do

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Speaker 2: is kind of do a speed round almost see if

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Speaker 2: we can pack as much information as possible into a

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Speaker 2: sprint of a deer hunting conversation. Because you have always

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Speaker 2: been about efficiency, I think if there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: ways we could describe you and your approach, but I

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Speaker 2: think efficient is right up towards the top of the list.

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Speaker 2: So I want to see if we can have one

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Speaker 2: of the most efficient podcasts for teaching people about how

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Speaker 2: to take the next step as a woodsman and as

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Speaker 2: someone who is scouting for Intel. And where I wanted

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Speaker 2: to start was with a little bit of imagination here,

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Speaker 2: So bear with me, Andy. Imagine Andy May of twenty sixteen. Okay,

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Speaker 2: think back to yourself ten years ago and try to

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Speaker 2: recall the things you believed about scouting, the approach that

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Speaker 2: you took, the things that you did ten years ago

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Speaker 2: when you were trying to figure out where to hunt

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Speaker 2: or how to hunt a buck or a piece of

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Speaker 2: public or a piece of private, whatever it was. How

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Speaker 2: does twenty twenty six Andy May's scouting routine and approach

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Speaker 2: differ from yours ten years ago?

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Speaker 3: What stands out is different? Now? Yeah, that's a good question.

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Speaker 3: I haven't really thought about that, but.

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Speaker 4: Well, one thing that comes to mind is, back then,

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Speaker 4: I definitely felt the need, like if I was going

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Speaker 4: to go somewhere new, I felt the need to get

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Speaker 4: eyes on that ground, to walk that ground, and to

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Speaker 4: thoroughly scout it before I really felt comfortable dive it

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Speaker 4: in there and hunting it effectively. And I believe at

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Speaker 4: that time, and and prior to that, I probably did

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Speaker 4: because I didn't have or maybe I was developing a more.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, a more.

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Speaker 4: More, I was developing more experience and more confidence.

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Speaker 3: Maybe at that time that I.

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Speaker 4: Really needed to like see it firsthand, to really feel

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Speaker 4: confident to dive into an area and feel like I

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Speaker 4: was going to be effective.

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Speaker 3: Versus now, I still have that.

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Speaker 4: I still feel that way, and I still do that,

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Speaker 4: but I also feel confident.

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Speaker 3: I feel more confident.

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Speaker 4: Now that I can look at maps and just kind

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Speaker 4: of hit the ground running and and sometimes part of

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Speaker 4: the reason I've kind of tried to do that and

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Speaker 4: implement that into my my hunting a little bit is

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Speaker 4: because I have I have friends and I've talked to

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Speaker 4: some other guys that I respect as hunters, and that's

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Speaker 4: their approach. They actually prefer not to walk ground and

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Speaker 4: thoroughly pick it apart.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 4: The reason they do that is because they don't want

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Speaker 4: to feel like married to a spot. You know, like

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Speaker 4: if you go and you scout it and you walk

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Speaker 4: it and it's like, all right, this is where I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna hunt. These are the trees I'm gonna hunt out of,

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Speaker 4: you almost you almost get married to that spot.

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Speaker 3: So when I.

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Speaker 4: Learned about that approach, I heard about that approach mainly

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Speaker 4: Jared Scheffler, but I have a couple other buddies too,

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Speaker 4: But Jared did I talk about it a lot. We

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Speaker 4: just had a great conversation about you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: touched on this a little bit the other day on

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Speaker 4: my drive.

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Speaker 3: But that's a skill set in itself to.

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Speaker 4: Be able to just kind of briefly look over maps,

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Speaker 4: get the lay of the land, and to based on

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Speaker 4: what you see kind of nowhere to go on that

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Speaker 4: piece of ground where you potentially could or should get into,

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Speaker 4: you know, some good hunting. And that's something that I

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Speaker 4: feel way more confident in doing now and I actually

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Speaker 4: try to do that on purpose in some cases to

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Speaker 4: develop that skill set, where back in twenty sixteen and

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Speaker 4: probably before that, I didn't really have that confidence. Yes,

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Speaker 4: I could go in and I could run and gun

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Speaker 4: and kind of feel things out, but I feel like

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Speaker 4: I really wanted to like explore every inch of a

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Speaker 4: piece of ground, for instance, like if I got a

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Speaker 4: piece of permission ground or something, or you know, I

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Speaker 4: always want to just walk everything and figure everything out,

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Speaker 4: or a piece of public ground when I'm out of state,

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Speaker 4: just walk it all, walk all those good areas and

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Speaker 4: really get a feel for it. And I still like

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Speaker 4: to do that because that's ultimately that's my favorite way.

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Speaker 4: I like taking in information and you know, reading the sign,

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Speaker 4: reading the terrain, and then kind of figuring out where,

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Speaker 4: you know, where where the deer a living, if they're

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Speaker 4: bedding on the property, where they're feeding, how are they traveling,

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Speaker 4: and how can I take advantage of that.

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Speaker 3: But it is a skill set itself to be able

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Speaker 3: to just look at.

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Speaker 4: Maps and aerial photo or a terrain you know, a

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Speaker 4: topographical map, and then just dive in and have that

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Speaker 4: confidence through probably developed through lots of experience, you know,

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Speaker 4: doing that over the years, but just being able to

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Speaker 4: go in there without having to walk every inch of

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Speaker 4: it and get yourself into some some pretty high percentage areas.

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Speaker 4: I think that's a good skill set to have, especially

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Speaker 4: if you're or a traveling guy like me. I can't

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Speaker 4: tell you how many times I've went to a state

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Speaker 4: or piece of ground that I've scouted I feel comfortable

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Speaker 4: with and this is this is where you know I'm

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Speaker 4: going to be hunting, and it's overrun with people or

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Speaker 4: I lost access last minute, and it's like now I

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Speaker 4: have to like, you know, shuffle and find something new.

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Speaker 4: So it's a it's a good skill set to have

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Speaker 4: to be able to kind of make things happen on

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Speaker 4: the fly and and be efficient, you know, being efficient,

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Speaker 4: which you know I do try to be that way

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Speaker 4: because I'm living on time, but you know, being efficient

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Speaker 4: certainly through you know, thoroughly scouting an area and knowing

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Speaker 4: the ins and out of it and knowing where the

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Speaker 4: deer beded, knowing where they're feeding, Knowing how they travel,

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Speaker 4: knowing your access all that stuff really increases efficiency. But

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Speaker 4: sometimes that stuff falls apart a traveling hunter, when you

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Speaker 4: don't own your ground, sometimes that stuff, you know, things

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Speaker 4: have a way of falling apart, or a wrench getting

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Speaker 4: thrown in your plan. And to be able to pivot

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Speaker 4: and make something happen when you're on a short time schedule,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's efficiency also, and that's developed just through

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Speaker 4: a lot of experience and gaining confidence into just diving

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Speaker 4: into a new piece of ground. Looking at a map

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Speaker 4: really quick. Oh you know what I know, Dear like

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Speaker 4: this type of habitat. There's a lot of diversity here.

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Speaker 4: I like the way these terrain features match up with

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Speaker 4: this diversity. It's far away from access points, That's where

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Speaker 4: I'm going to go. So I would say that's the

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Speaker 4: first thing that came to mind when you ask that question,

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Speaker 4: is just that I actually don't feel the need to

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Speaker 4: always walk aground thoroughly to be able to hunt it effectively.

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Speaker 4: And maybe I'm not going in there and killing the

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Speaker 4: biggest buck in the neighborhood, but I feel like I

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Speaker 4: could go in and have a good hunt in most cases.

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Speaker 2: So that ability to be able to you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: you said not not go into the season married to

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Speaker 2: a spot, so instead of kind of studying the maps

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Speaker 2: from a far east scouting and that gives me a

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Speaker 2: game plan. We'll call this swinger scouting. Since you're not

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Speaker 2: married to it. You you're just getting the sense of things,

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Speaker 2: try and dabbling, get getting a taste.

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Speaker 3: Is that something? And I think I know the answer.

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Speaker 2: You kind of alluded to this, but I want you

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Speaker 2: to explicitly say this, whether this is true or not.

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Speaker 3: Can you get to that point.

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Speaker 2: Where you can do what you just described just by

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Speaker 2: having a Spartan Forge or on X subscription and studying

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Speaker 2: maps like crazy and really learning all the mechanics and

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Speaker 2: all the tips and all the little details and really

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Speaker 2: becoming an expert in escouting. Can you do what you

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Speaker 2: just described and be successful simply by becoming an E

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Speaker 2: scouting guru?

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Speaker 3: Or do you first.

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Speaker 2: Have to go through the twenty years of all on

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Speaker 2: the ground, pile on the ground stuff that you described

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Speaker 2: until you can actually then have the ability to be

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Speaker 2: an EAT scouting guru and have it actually pay off

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Speaker 2: on the ground.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another good question.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think if there's a time where you

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Speaker 4: can be effective with just eat scouting, now's the time.

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Speaker 4: Because the maps are incredible. There's tons of information on

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Speaker 4: what white tails do, where they live, the types of

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Speaker 4: terrain that they prefer across all parts of the country.

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Speaker 4: So if you are if you were a kind of

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Speaker 4: a student of that, and you took in a lot

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Speaker 4: of content, maybe read some articles and some books from

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Speaker 4: you know, experienced hunters, listen to podcasts. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 4: a guy probably could you know, be effective doing that.

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Speaker 4: Is he going to be as effective without all that experience,

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Speaker 4: that on the ground experience. I don't believe so, but

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Speaker 4: I think he could. I think he could be successful.

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Speaker 4: Just just the amount of information that's out there now

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Speaker 4: compared to like when you and I started, it's just,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's incredible. And if you learn to read

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Speaker 4: a map, I mean you can watch YouTube videos on

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Speaker 4: how how to read a map like an expert. You know,

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Speaker 4: where you know it took. I didn't really have that.

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Speaker 4: You didn't have that. None of the guys that came

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Speaker 4: up before now really had that. We had to just

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Speaker 4: kind of learn that as we go. Yeah, and lots

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Speaker 4: of trial and eron, and you know, guys that are

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Speaker 4: coming up now, they can bypass a lot of that

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Speaker 4: time and a lot of those mistakes and probably be

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Speaker 4: you know, pretty darn effective. But I do think that

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Speaker 4: experience of you know, walking various types of ground, various

254
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Speaker 4: types of terrain that the white tail calls home. I

255
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Speaker 4: think that's invaluable and I think part of the.

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Speaker 3: Reason that.

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Speaker 4: In some cases I am efficient. I'm certainly not always efficient.

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Speaker 4: I know people think that, but trust me, there's times

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Speaker 4: when I'm not. But it is from that experience, that

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Speaker 4: groundwork that was laid prior to this, you know, all

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Speaker 4: those years of learning and making mistakes and walking you know,

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Speaker 4: different types of areas. I always try to challenge myself,

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Speaker 4: like new areas and new types of terrain.

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Speaker 3: It's just something that.

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Speaker 4: Inside of me that I always wanted to do is

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Speaker 4: just just be like really versatile. And I don't know

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Speaker 4: if it was just that like a strong just urge

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Speaker 4: to learn. I just wanted to learn, and then I

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Speaker 4: feel like I would start to get a grasp on something,

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Speaker 4: and then I'd hear somebody else talk about white tails

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Speaker 4: in a different state or a different type of terrain,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, wow, you know, like, I don't

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Speaker 4: know any of this, and I thought I knew white tails,

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Speaker 4: you know, so then so now I just want to

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Speaker 4: learn all about that. And so that would kind of

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Speaker 4: lead me towards an area or a state where I

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Speaker 4: wasn't super comfortable with, wasn't super confident, but I just

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Speaker 4: wanted to learn. And I mean, I still have that

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Speaker 4: feeling today, even you know, after all these years, I

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Speaker 4: still have that that's.

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Speaker 3: Such a strong urge to learn.

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Speaker 4: And I feel like, yes, I've learned a lot, and

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Speaker 4: I do feel like I know a lot, but I

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Speaker 4: feel like there's just so much that I don't know still,

285
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Speaker 4: and so much that I'm not confident in, and I

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Speaker 4: just there's just that constant, you know, that constant craving

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Speaker 4: for information and experiences and just to learn.

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Speaker 3: Like, for instance, like.

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Speaker 4: I was talking to you a bit before we started

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Speaker 4: the podcast, but I just got back from my second

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Speaker 4: trip in down to Illinois to scout hunt there this fall.

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Speaker 4: I haven't hunted in Illinois in probably eight or nine years.

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Speaker 4: I used to go pretty regularly, and I've already made

294
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Speaker 4: two scouting trips down there, and it's just one of

295
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Speaker 4: those instances where you know, this is the way I'm

296
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Speaker 4: going to tackle this hunt. I want to make the

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Speaker 4: most of this tag, and I'm going to go out

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to scout. We got access to a

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Speaker 4: private piece of eighty acres, and then other than that,

300
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Speaker 4: I've been scouting public land because I don't want to

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Speaker 4: put all my eggs in basket, all the eggs in

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Speaker 4: my basket for that eighty acres. Even though it could

303
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Speaker 4: be decent, I wasn't super impressed with the sign on it,

304
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Speaker 4: to be honest with you, and so I just started walking,

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Speaker 4: you know, various pieces of public ground. And I'm just

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Speaker 4: going to keep doing that. And I'm just trying to

307
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Speaker 4: build this kind of rolodex of information in areas where

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Speaker 4: I find that big deer have been living, or the

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Speaker 4: way it sets up, the way the train sets up,

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Speaker 4: maybe the cover and the diversity.

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Speaker 3: That is then on that ground.

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Speaker 4: It lends itself to bucks surviving, you know, to older age.

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Speaker 4: And it's been you know, I love it. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's just like so much information in new ground. But

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Speaker 4: I'm really starting to feel, already after two trips, like

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Speaker 4: really confident that I'll be able to get something on

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Speaker 4: the ground, and it very well might be on one

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Speaker 4: of the public pieces. That's where I found the biggest

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Speaker 4: sign and the most you know, the most mature buck

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Speaker 4: sign by far. So this hunt in particular, that's how

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Speaker 4: I decided to tackle it, as opposed to just you know,

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Speaker 4: shooting down there in November and getting in some rough

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Speaker 4: funnels that look good. I feel confident I could go

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Speaker 4: do that and probably, you know, if I'm not super picky,

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Speaker 4: probably kill a good deer. You know, I've I've demonstrated

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Speaker 4: that I can do that. But I just chose to

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Speaker 4: tackle this hunt this way. And there's other hunts that

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Speaker 4: I have this fall that I'm going to tackle a

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Speaker 4: completely different way and not scout at all and just

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Speaker 4: kind of show up and try to make things happen.

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Speaker 4: And I do that by choice. A lot of cases.

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Speaker 4: I do that by choice. So what's what's what will

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Speaker 4: help with my efficiency in Illinois is I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna go down again and then.

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Speaker 3: Probably one more time because it's not far. It's only

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Speaker 3: five and a half hours.

337
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Speaker 4: So I picked an area that I can get get

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Speaker 4: to relatively quickly. But what's going to help with my

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Speaker 4: efficiency is that I'm going to have dozens of spots.

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Speaker 4: You know, at least I would say that I'm going

341
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 4: to have confidence in I already found two or three

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Speaker 4: different areas that I can't tell mature bucks were living,

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Speaker 4: found their on their beds, found their sign kind of

344
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 4: know what they're doing out of their beds, got a

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 4: you know, a rough gauge on when that activity happened.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if I strike out with one, some

347
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 4: other spots that I feel confident in, and I'm just

348
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 4: kind of trying to build on that. So I'm going

349
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 4: to have kind of like maybe not playing ABCD like

350
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 4: in order, but I'm going to have lots of options

351
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Speaker 4: where I'm not going to be you know, stuck in

352
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Speaker 4: a situation where you know, I pick out a couple

353
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 4: of rough funnels on that eighty acres and nothing's panning out,

354
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Speaker 4: and then I don't know what to do, and then

355
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Speaker 4: I'm yes, exactly, So I'm going to have some you know,

356
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Speaker 4: I'll be able to pivot and go to something else

357
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 4: really quickly if I need to, and that does help

358
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,479
Speaker 4: with efficiency. That can turn you know, a kind of

359
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 4: a dead end trip or a failed not a failed,

360
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 4: but a struggle a struggle trip into success pretty quickly.

361
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so imagine and maybe you don't need to

362
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 2: imagine this. Maybe you actually have real life examples of

363
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 2: this where a buddy was with you. But imagine you

364
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: had a friend with you when you were scouting there

365
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 2: in Illinois, or maybe you agreed to mentor a hunter.

366
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Speaker 3: And let's say it's not a new hunter.

367
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Speaker 2: This is like your average serious deer hunter, like somebody

368
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: really loves it, but kind of average out all those people.

369
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Speaker 2: Let's like the average wired to hunt listener. Let's say

370
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 2: if you were to have that person walking alongside of

371
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Speaker 2: you while you're scouting this Illinois property, or imagine this

372
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 2: being like a friend of yours.

373
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Speaker 3: What do you think that you would be.

374
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 2: Paying attention to that that person would miss? Like when

375
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 2: you go with your buddies, what's the thing that you're

376
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 2: seeing and thinking about in cataloging and they are like

377
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: off in some other total different world or they totally

378
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: miss this thing and you're like, oh no, AB and

379
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: C was the important thing and they were thinking it

380
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: was E, F and G. Do you have a sense

381
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 2: of what that might be, Like, what is the average

382
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: person missing when they scalp that Andy May is actually

383
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 2: looking at paying attention to and and and seeing as important.

384
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: I think the average guys is.

385
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 4: Probably you know, okay at seeing the obvious stuff. The

386
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 4: obvious stuff would be, you know, you're walking you you

387
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 4: walk into you know, maybe maybe we're talking some some

388
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 4: hilly country or something, and you're walking into the timber

389
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: and you're working the ridges, and you start to see

390
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 4: some rubs and some scrapes, and they're like, oh, you know,

391
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 4: like here's some here's some stuff.

392
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 3: You know, a buck was here, a buck laid this

393
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 3: sign down.

394
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 4: I think probably the average guy, and certainly like early

395
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: on Andy may would have seen that and probably not

396
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 4: really thought about, Okay, why is this here? You know,

397
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 4: where is this coming from? What is this relating to?

398
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 4: What does this sign mean?

399
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: Is this.

400
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 4: You know, is this sign here because there's a buck

401
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 4: living nearby? Or is this an area that a buck

402
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: isn't really vetted by? But a lot of does live

403
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 4: in here in the in the sign is marked up

404
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 4: kind of around in and around this do activity. That's

405
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 4: the kind of stuff I'm picking up on now because

406
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 4: I have more experience where the average guy would probably

407
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 4: just see the sign, get excited, not really understand why.

408
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 3: Not always, but a lot.

409
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 4: Of cases I can find sign like that, And if

410
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 4: I investigate enough, if I look at the maps, I

411
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: see where the sign is, I start checking, you know,

412
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 4: if it's ill country, I start looking for those drainages.

413
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: I look start looking for those little knobs that aren't

414
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 4: shown on a topographical map, you know, in those drainages

415
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 4: where bucks would would typically bet I'm starting to explore

416
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 4: these and see if I can find some evidence of

417
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: a book that's actually like living here in this system,

418
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 4: living here on this ridge system, and you know, I'm

419
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 4: looking for dough betting. I'm looking for all of that,

420
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 4: and I'm trying to put the puzzle pieces together. A

421
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 4: lot of times, when I find that sign, I can

422
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 4: connect all these pieces, and the more pieces I get,

423
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: I can almost, you know, sometimes fairly accurately estimate when

424
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 4: that sign was laid down. I mean, maybe not to

425
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 4: the week, but it could be a mid October type thing,

426
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: or it could be a late October, it could.

427
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: Be more of a rough thing.

428
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 4: So I think the average guy misses that they see

429
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 4: the sign, but they don't know how to tie it

430
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 4: all together. Like maybe they can find rubs and scrapes

431
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 4: and trails, and that's all great that stuff is important,

432
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 4: but how does that relate to what else is going on?

433
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 4: Is there dough betting? Because dough betting is sometimes hard

434
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 4: to identify unless you're open up deer. I mean you're

435
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 4: not commonly finding like depending on the train, like well

436
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 4: used beds down to the dirt near a hill country

437
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 4: you find little little depressions that you I mean, you

438
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't even know it's a bed unless you're really really looking.

439
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 4: Same with the buck beds. He's the one we found

440
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: in Illinois and this ridge system. It wasn't were down

441
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 4: to the dirt. It was just a little knob, a

442
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 4: little depression there, and then when you look, you found

443
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 4: a rub. And then we worked up the ridge we

444
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 4: found another one of his rubes. These are big, you know,

445
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: like the size of my between my calf and thigh,

446
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,239
Speaker 4: and found another rub. It all related back to that

447
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: bed and he was working up the ridge. There was

448
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 4: some little water holes up there. We figured he was

449
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 4: staging there. There was agg corn flat up there. So

450
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 4: we started putting these pieces together and it was it

451
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 4: was clearly a deer that was living in there through

452
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: a fair part of the season. He laid down a

453
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 4: lot of sign and that tells us so, Okay, this

454
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 4: is a deer that's probably in here in October, you

455
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 4: know before he's really moving around searching for doze. So

456
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 4: it's just little things like that, you know, It's just

457
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 4: I think I experienced woodsman, experienced scouter just as able

458
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 4: to gather more of the pieces of the puzzle. And

459
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 4: when you have more pieces of the puzzle, your chances

460
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 4: go up. And the fact that I know, like in

461
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: hill country where bucks tend to bed, you know, there's

462
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 4: certain features that mature bucks tend to bet on, So

463
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 4: I know where to look.

464
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: You know, I can look at a map, I know

465
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: where to look. I can go in and check it.

466
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 4: If it's not there, it's not there, I go to

467
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 4: the next one that has those features that I'm looking for.

468
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 4: Eventually I find it. If it's a marsh or a

469
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 4: swamp or something like that, I know what they like.

470
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 4: I know where they like to bed. Doesn't mean every

471
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 4: feature is going to have that, because there's just not

472
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: that many mature bucks around most cases, But you just

473
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 4: keep searching until you find that. And when you know,

474
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 4: when you know those spots, you know how to find

475
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 4: them and you know how to pick them out from

476
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: a map. You can go right to them and you

477
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: can check them. You can look for that sign and

478
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 4: if it's there. Now I'm trying to tie in those

479
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 4: other things. Okay, what's the timing of this? How can

480
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 4: I figure that out? What's the food sources? How is

481
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 4: he getting from point A to point B? Is he

482
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 4: here during the rut? Is it something that you know

483
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 4: it's a it's a bed, but it's not like super

484
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: well used.

485
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: Or is it a bed that's.

486
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 4: Like worn down to the dirt in the marsh on

487
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 4: a little island or on a little point. That's a

488
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: lot of You know that there's a lot of information

489
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 4: there that you can dissect and then come up with

490
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 4: a hypothesis. And like I said, the more pieces of

491
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: the puzzle you get, the better your hypothesis is. So

492
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 4: the average guy misses out on all of that, and

493
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: the more experienced guy can pick that apart rather quickly

494
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 4: because he knows what he's looking for. As far as

495
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 4: betting food sources, you know, fairly straightforward to find in

496
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: most cases. It can be a little bit more challenging

497
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: in the timbered areas, but you know you're looking for,

498
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 4: you know, prior depending on where you're at. You might

499
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: be looking for honeysucker, you're looking for acorns. You know,

500
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: oak flats, certain acorns produced certain times a year, so

501
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: you know, if you can identify those, and you're finding

502
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 4: the sign near those, that can help you narrow things down.

503
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 4: So there's a lot there, and you certainly don't need

504
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 4: all that information to be successful. But the more that

505
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 4: you can gather, the more efficient you're going to be,

506
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: the more you're going to have just a better chance

507
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: of being successful. And I'm still learning, you know, I'm

508
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 4: still learning. I felt like we put a lot of

509
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: pieces of the puzzle together in a lot of these

510
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 4: areas we searched in Illinois, like where I feel confident

511
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: enough to like go in there or send a buddy

512
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: in there, and he's going to have, you know, a

513
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 4: decent hunt, I feel like, and maybe even a good

514
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: chance to have an encounter.

515
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: And really that's that's what you're looking for. That's all

516
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 3: you can ask for.

517
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I would say the average guy is

518
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: just seeing the obvious. He's seeing the trails, he's seeing

519
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 4: the ropes, he's seeing the scrapes, but he's not able

520
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: to tie everything together. Another example would be, you know,

521
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 4: you might find, like on a certain rich system around

522
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: a point, you might find all this sign and you're like,

523
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: you're so focused on that. But then you know, maybe

524
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: the experience hunter, the experienced scouter sees that sign and

525
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: he's like, all right, there's good sign here.

526
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: There's a good, good mature buck sign. What's over here

527
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: on this part of the ridge? Oh?

528
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: Here, So he's going to explore the rest of it.

529
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 4: Maybe he finds dough betting over here. Now he's looking

530
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: at the train and how that all ties together. It's like, okay,

531
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 4: you know there's bucks sign over here on this point

532
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 4: or on this this drainage. I'm seeing a lot of

533
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 4: dough activity over here, lots of droppings. I'm finding beds

534
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 4: on these flats or on these points. How is this

535
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: all tied together? Okay, Well, there's a nice little drainage,

536
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 4: you know, a little drainage that comes up, and the

537
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 4: way the train works around that drainage, it kind of

538
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 4: connects us.

539
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: That'd be a great ambush you know, an ambush.

540
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: Point, and that's something you know, an experienced guy would like.

541
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 4: He'd find that first bit of information. Now he's looking

542
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 4: for other information in that area, whether it's food, whether

543
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 4: it's does, whether it's you know, water or you know,

544
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 4: brows or whatever, it is the nearest scrape, and then

545
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 4: he's tying that all together and then finding different ways

546
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: the terrain might set up to give him an ambush.

547
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: Spot, especially with a bow.

548
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 4: So that that's kind of like how my brain is

549
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: working when I'm gathering all this information, where the average

550
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: guy is probably going to struggle, you know, tying all

551
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: that together.

552
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the more experience he has, the more he

553
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: does this, you know that that will come. It comes

554
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: with time. I certainly didn't have that.

555
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like it to to rephrase a little

556
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: bit of what you're saying there in my own mind,

557
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: it sounds like the first step and what the average

558
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: guy or girl typically does is they can they can

559
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: identify the pieces of the puzzle. And what the next

560
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: level is is, as you said, it's connecting all those dots,

561
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: is putting all those pieces together. And the way you

562
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: were able to do that is by looking at the

563
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: individual pieces and asking like three questions. It's when, it's why,

564
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: it's how, It's like when did this happen? Why did

565
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: this happen?

566
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: How? Did it get here?

567
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: And by building what that story is in your mind

568
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: to connect all those pieces, that's how you make sense

569
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: of it and then insert yourself into the right place

570
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: at the right time to take advantage of the next

571
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: time that story plays out.

572
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: Right. That's that makes a lot of sense to me.

573
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: But I have a question related to that, to the

574
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: assumption that a lot of people have, which is like, Okay,

575
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: I'm an average hunter. I can identify the pieces, and

576
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: I think maybe that I wonder if that might be

577
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: wrong because these days, if you watch YouTube videos like

578
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: you said, if you listen to podcasts, there's so much

579
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: information out there about how to identify the pieces.

580
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: Right.

581
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: There's so many people saying this is how you find

582
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: betting on a top of map. There's so many videos

583
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: that help you see like, hey, you need to know

584
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: this feature of this feature and this feature and that's

585
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: where they're going to be. You'll hear all these different

586
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: experts say, all right, marsh betting is XYZ, hill country

587
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: betting is ABC. Farm country betting is EFG right, And

588
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: I think there's a whole generation of deer hunters who

589
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: are being raised on that and now are like indoctrinated

590
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: in this conventional wisdom of what betting is supposed to

591
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: be or what travel is supposed to be, and they

592
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: have like a blueprint for it, and it's supposed to

593
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: be replicated exactly how it shows on the map on

594
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: YouTube should be exactly how it is on the ground.

595
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: I know that you have seen all that and have

596
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: heard all that, and.

597
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: We talk about a lot of that.

598
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: But I'm curious, are there any of these pieces of

599
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: conventional wisdom that you've found to not hold up in

600
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: real life as much as either we all think or

601
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: as much as you once thought, even like, you know,

602
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: is there something like, hey, Buck's always bet on the

603
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: end of a point, or Bucks always been in a

604
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: high spot in the marsh, or deer always going to

605
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: take the settle?

606
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 3: Whatever?

607
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 2: Is there any one of those kinds of things that

608
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: now in twenty twenty six you're like, you know what,

609
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: it's not as much that way as everybody says, or

610
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: it's not as much as I thought. Does anything come

611
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: to mind that has now that you've seen some conventional

612
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: wisdom turned upside down or be a little bit different

613
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: than you thought.

614
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think I think the basics are uh.

615
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 3: I guess like the basic information that we've all heard

616
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 3: is certainly it's certainly true. Like those are.

617
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 4: Things that I see, you know, leeward sides of ridges. Yes,

618
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 4: I see I see beds there, I see deer there.

619
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 4: I have encounters there. But I've also seen embedded on

620
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 4: the windward ridge, you know, the windward side. So yeah,

621
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 4: there's there's things that I see that that seem to

622
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 4: go against the grain. But the more I talk to

623
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 4: people that are familiar in that type of habitat, that

624
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: they talk about it all the time, you know, to them,

625
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 4: that's that's pretty normal. But if you were just to

626
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 4: listen to know, you know, certain podcasts or read certain articles,

627
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 4: you wouldn't even think that would even be a possibility,

628
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: wouldn't even look over there. So yeah, you know, that

629
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 4: one comes to mind. Certainly, I've had some great hunts

630
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 4: on the windward side of the ridge, and that's you know,

631
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 4: if you were to just to read about ill country

632
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 4: or listen to certain podcasts, you would think that that

633
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 4: was like a ghost town.

634
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 3: You wouldn't even mess Yeah, it wouldn't even mess with it.

635
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 4: So another thing that kind of comes to mind is,

636
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: you know, you hear. You hear so often about the

637
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 4: down wind side of dough betting and in certain types

638
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 4: of habitat, but there's there's no doubt that that is

639
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 4: an area that bucks gravitate towards. There's no doubt about it.

640
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 4: When when the does are betted and the bucks are

641
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 4: making their rounds, that is a great place to be,

642
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 4: depending on what type of habitat and cover that is.

643
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 4: That like the down one side of betting sounds like,

644
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 4: you know, real cut and dry. Okay, find where the

645
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 4: dose are, I'm gonna set up just down wind of it.

646
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 4: But it's not always that simple. I mean, you know,

647
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 4: in a marsh or something where there's a lot of

648
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: hard edges and the betting is very specific. It's easier

649
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 4: in hill country where there might be three betted on

650
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 4: this little point and there might be you know, four

651
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 4: betted down the ridge on a different point. It's like

652
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 4: they're kind of scattered through all. It can be a

653
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: little trickier. But the thing that I find, the thing

654
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: that I found even more consistent than that. And this

655
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 4: is just my opinion and I've heard other people mention it,

656
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 4: But if you can find like the the the edge

657
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 4: of like say, you know, deer coming from bed to

658
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 4: feed like a bed defeed.

659
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: Pattern like dose.

660
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 4: For the most part, all year long, they're kind of

661
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: on a bed defeed pattern. That's what does do. The

662
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 4: bucks are the ones that really change their behavior throughout

663
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 4: the fall. Food sources can change so that that travel

664
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 4: pattern can change for those does. But when those bucks,

665
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: when it's when it's time to go, and those bucks

666
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 4: are the does are ready and the bucks are looking

667
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 4: finding those food sources or those betting areas, those those

668
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 4: areas that they travel through.

669
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 3: What I'm finding a.

670
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 4: Lot and what I've been able to capitalize on a

671
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 4: lot is these bucks will cross section or perpendicular check

672
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 4: these trails going in and out, not necessarily the downwind

673
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: side of betting, but they'll for instance, like I'm trying

674
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 4: to come up with an example that you guys will

675
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 4: be able to visualize where this makes sense. But in

676
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 4: a marsh setting, you know, you got the marsh betting

677
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 4: up here, you got the food you know, maybe to

678
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 4: the south, Well, those travel routes in between those are

679
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 4: really good checkpoints for bucks when they're on the move.

680
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 4: They're not necessarily hitting the down winds side, which I'm

681
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: sure some bucks are, but that that area where they're

682
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 4: traveling through, either just off the food source or closer

683
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 4: to the bedding, those are great spots to be where

684
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: there might be several travel routes of different dough groups

685
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 4: coming back to bed are going to feed. But those

686
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 4: bucks can cross. They could take one route and they

687
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 4: can cross several trails. They can cross several dough travel

688
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: routes and they can instantly know what dose are in heat,

689
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: or if there's one in heat, or where she's at,

690
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: what trail she took. And he's taking one route where

691
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 4: you know, if there's scattered do betting everywhere, he has

692
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 4: to really make the rounds and check those individuals.

693
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: So I have seen that. I don't I don't think

694
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 3: that necessarily goes against the grain.

695
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 4: But I haven't heard that talked about as much because

696
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 4: there's there's been many times where I've sat down end

697
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 4: of doll betting and then I you know, it's like

698
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 4: the does are in there, it's the rut and it's

699
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 4: like nothing's happening.

700
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: And I've killed there too.

701
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 4: But that's something that I've really seen and I've been

702
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 4: able to capitalize on, especially in a scenario where you

703
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 4: do have that like main betting. It could be like

704
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 4: a river bottom system, and there's there's different no groups

705
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: or a or a marsh or a swamp or anything,

706
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 4: but they're all kind of coming out in the jet

707
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 4: same general direction, going to a destination, food source, that

708
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 4: line of movement, and then you're looking for that perpendicular

709
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 4: movement that the bucks would take. That's been that's been

710
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 4: very very consistent. I found that to be very very consistent.

711
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 4: So that's something.

712
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 2: Well, let me let me let me pause you there

713
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: and and pivot you just a little bit, because I've

714
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: seen that same thing. And as you were describing that,

715
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: my mind wandered just a bit to how you know

716
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: we all kind of kind of to the beginning of question.

717
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: Everyone kind of knows this stuff. Now, if you are,

718
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: if you're a half decent, half serious deer hunter these days,

719
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: we all know where they're supposed to be, right, we

720
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 2: all know what they're supposed to do.

721
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: There's a whole lot.

722
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 2: Of folks that are pretty competent now with your conventional approaches.

723
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: But if you hunt public land or public land or

724
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: pressure private that you share with other people, that means

725
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: that everyone that you're out there competing with to some

726
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: degree also likely knows the same stuff you know, and

727
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: is also likely looking for the same things you're looking

728
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: for and approaching things the same way. So if we're

729
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: all doing things the same way, we're all going to

730
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 2: get the same results, which on pressure ground or public

731
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 2: ground means you're probably all not doing all so well

732
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: because you have to be exceptional. You have to be

733
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: doing the opposite of the average if you want success

734
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: in those settings. So when it comes to your scouting

735
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: in these pressured places, whether it's public or private, today

736
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, when there's more people than ever

737
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: who know this stuff, when there's more people than ever

738
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: who take it really serious and spend a lot of

739
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: time out there doing this stuff, maybe there's maybe there's

740
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: not more total hunters total, but I still believe there's

741
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: more super serious hunters than there's ever been. So that

742
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: being the case, do you scout differently at all, knowing

743
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: like oh yeah, everyone's looking for the same stuff, or

744
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: oh yeah everyone has seen this, betting they already know,

745
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 2: like this high spot in the swamp is it got

746
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: to go check this? Or if you come across the

747
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 2: no brainer obvious like oh wow, there's a buck living here.

748
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: This is amazing. All the sign screams it, but it's

749
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: almost too obvious. And you know that there's four other

750
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: guys that hunt here and they probably have all seen

751
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: the same thing, and so they probably are all going

752
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: to be camping out in this spot. Have you ever

753
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: found yourself having to almost like reverse psychology the other

754
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: hunters to try to find the next peel, the next

755
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 2: layer of the onion back to avoid these obvious places

756
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: to some degree? Is that Are you to that point

757
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: where you're thinking about that at all?

758
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a way, because I do feel that way.

759
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 4: This example came up when we were in Illinois. I

760
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 4: looked at them app I looked at all the access

761
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 4: routes or all the all the parking spots. I looked

762
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: at the hardest to get to place on the whole property.

763
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 4: And this was a big, decent sized chunk, not huge,

764
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: but you know it was a good clip back there.

765
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: I found the hardest to get to. You had to

766
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: cross a river, you had to go over several ravines.

767
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: It was the longest walk.

768
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 4: And then I looked for the terrain that I like

769
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 4: to find, you know, potential betting, some good funnels, good

770
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 4: terrain that you know, if a buck was, if there

771
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 4: was a mature buck living on this property, that's where

772
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 4: I would guess he would be. And we hiked back

773
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: there immediately found the big buck bed almost where I

774
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 4: dropped the pin, Literally almost where I dropped the pin.

775
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 3: In fact, we were, we were, we stopped. I was

776
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: with my buddy, Justin Wright.

777
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 4: And another guy, my other buddy, Luke Levitt, and we

778
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 4: were sitting on this ridge and I said, I said,

779
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 4: you see that knob right there.

780
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: We went to this main drainage, I go, you see

781
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: that little knob right there.

782
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 4: Because Luke hadn't hunted a lot of public land, he

783
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,479
Speaker 4: had had a lot of permission land. And I said,

784
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 4: that's exactly the type of setup I see mature bucks

785
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 4: betting in this type of pill country. You notice how

786
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 4: it's not the main point. It's like we're in this

787
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 4: main drainage and there's the main point over there, the

788
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 4: main point over there, but this is just this little

789
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 4: knob that doesn't even show up on a topographical map.

790
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 4: That's where that buck beds. And I said, you get

791
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 4: in here. The wind's swirling. He's sitting there, he can

792
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 4: see deer dumping, dumping off all the points around him.

793
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: If something approaches from behind, he'll be able to hear it.

794
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 4: He's got the wind blowing over his back. I was like,

795
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 4: it's it's perfect. It's almost bulletproof. And you know, Justin

796
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 4: chimes in. Justin's super, super experienced with hell country. He goes,

797
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 4: I see the same exact thing, man, I said, Justin.

798
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 3: Go over there and check that.

799
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 4: I said, I go, I go go over and check

800
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 4: that nob and he goes over there. He goes, there's

801
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 4: a huge bed here. And that's that's the one where

802
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 4: we started scouting, you know, up the ridge. We found

803
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 4: the rub, we found the rube line, we found we

804
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 4: determined where he was going. Come to come to find out,

805
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 4: that's where all the trail cameras were. Also like the

806
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 4: hardest to get two plays. We found cell cameras, we

807
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 4: found SD card cameras like literally all along this deer

808
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 4: sign And I was like, man, there's just like it's

809
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 4: just people just know now. So how do you beat

810
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 4: that the way? I don't know if you can beat

811
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 4: it with scouting. I think you can beat it with

812
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 4: just being relentless. As far as the amount of scouting,

813
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: you do, you're gonna run into that. And that doesn't

814
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 4: mean I wouldn't hunt that spot, because when I see

815
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 4: cell cameras and hard to reach spots, that's telling me

816
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 4: a guy's probably not hunting it unless he's getting pictures. Yeah,

817
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of guys like that right now.

818
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 4: So I don't let the cell cameras, specifically the cell

819
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 4: cameras deter me too much. But they also probably known

820
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 4: when that buck's in there. You know, potentially, you know,

821
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 4: some bucks wise up to that pretty quick. So you

822
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 4: can be relentless with your scout. You can find you

823
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 4: could almost make yourself undeniable. Like you you're going to

824
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 4: find spots like that. We you're gonna find a hundred

825
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 4: more like that, so that you can just boom boom boom,

826
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 4: and you're you're going to be so prepared that you're

827
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 4: just going to outwork the competition. I like that, you know,

828
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 4: I think the guy that works the hardest and is

829
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 4: the most thorough should be the most successful. But that's

830
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 4: a grind, and that's a lot of time, and you

831
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 4: know it's hard to do, and you know, the more

832
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 4: experienced you are, you can probably be more effective with that.

833
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: Another thought is, you know you can be more versatile

834
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 4: than the next guy. And that's what I lean into

835
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 4: with my hunting. Yes, Like there's the basic kind of

836
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 4: ambush type hunting. You know, you're scouting the sign, you're

837
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 4: looking for an ambush point, you're setting up, and you're

838
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 4: trying to make it happen, you.

839
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: Know, when that deer is on the move.

840
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 4: I think being versatile as a hunter, being able to

841
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 4: hunt off the ground, being able to you know, still hunt,

842
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 4: still hunt through an area and you know, read and

843
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:21,240
Speaker 4: react to what's.

844
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 3: Happening right now.

845
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 4: Where Like I'm going in there and I'm scouting that

846
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 4: sign in Illinois and we just found it, you know,

847
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 4: a couple of days ago, trying to.

848
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: Gauge when that's happening. And that's all great, and.

849
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 4: We might nail it and we might go in there

850
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 4: and have a great hunt. But a lot of guys

851
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 4: would shy away from just slipping around the timber. You know,

852
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 4: there's pressure everywhere. Okay, you know, I'm gonna keep moving.

853
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 4: I'm gonna keep scouting. I'm hunting while I while I scout,

854
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 4: I'm slipping along, I'm glassing, I'm moving trying to just

855
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 4: read and react to what's in front of me. I

856
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 4: love to hunt that way, and that's led me into

857
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 4: It's got me some skills.

858
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: It's led me.

859
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 4: Into the next spot where I might set up an ambush.

860
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 4: It's led me into bumping deer and now it's like,

861
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 4: oh man, I just bumped a big one. Now I'm

862
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 4: in the game with this deer. There's that, there's decoy strategies,

863
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 4: there's calling, there's all these things that you can become

864
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 4: more versatile and not so like one dimensional as a

865
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 4: deer hunter. And that's one thing. Like when guys asked

866
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: me about my style of deer hunting, I really have

867
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 4: a hard time answering that because, like when I start

868
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: thinking about all the bucks I've taken it specifically in

869
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 4: the like last fifteen years, like they're all so different.

870
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: I've called them in.

871
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 4: I've snuck into their beds, their betting areas and hunted

872
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 4: them from the ground because I was so close I

873
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 4: didn't want to get up in a tree. I've tickled

874
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 4: the antlers together when I know they're they're betted sixty

875
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 4: yards away and got them to come investigate because they thought,

876
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 4: you know, there's a there's a buck in my betting area.

877
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: What else? You know, how could it be another person?

878
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 4: Because I knew he was there or I had a

879
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 4: good feeling it was there, and I was able to

880
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 4: slipping close. And it's just like you're in that bubble

881
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 4: and you're making realistic sounds like of course he's convinced

882
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 4: that that's a that's a deer, and not you know,

883
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 4: not a guy that's twenty five up and up in

884
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 4: the tree banging his antlers together. You know, it's like

885
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 4: these little things that make the biggest difference. But that

886
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: versatility has allowed me to, I think, find success when

887
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 4: maybe some of the basic stuff isn't working or everybody's

888
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 4: using the basic stuff. Now. I know that doesn't answer

889
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 4: like the scouting question, but I do think. I do

890
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 4: think being versatile as a hunter and having that mindset

891
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 4: as you're scouting, you know, you might be able to

892
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 4: you might be able to conceptualize a different approach to

893
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 4: the information you're getting that might say like one step

894
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 4: ahead of the competition.

895
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: That's I was curious about it. If you're going into

896
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: a hunt with that goal of being versatile, Like if

897
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: I were going into this and I, let's play hypothetical.

898
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: Let's say like I've always been a one trick pony hunter.

899
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: I've always just ambushed. I know how to scout for

900
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: that style of hunting. But what if this year my

901
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: goal is like, Man, I'm gonna go outside of my box.

902
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try this stuff. I'm gonna try still hunting.

903
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go in and work my way in. I'm

904
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: gonna hunt from the ground sometimes, I'm gonna try these

905
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 2: different things. Should I be looking for different things when

906
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: I'm scouting or thinking about my scouting differently in any

907
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: way if I'm opening myself up to that kind of

908
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: hunting now or is it all like I no matter

909
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: what style of hunting, you should still be looking for

910
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: the same things. You should still be, you know, connecting

911
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 2: the dots like we talked about. Is it the same

912
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: or is it different when you have this new approach.

913
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 4: I think you can still scout and still look for

914
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 4: that sign and still try to put all those pieces together,

915
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 4: but have an open a mind of have an open

916
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 4: mind of different ways to hunt that situation. You know,

917
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 4: it might be Yes, I found the perfect funnel that's

918
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 4: you know, between two betting areas.

919
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 3: It's great.

920
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 4: It's a great pinch point. And I'm gonna get twenty

921
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: five feet up and I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna wait.

922
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: That's great.

923
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 4: But you, like you said, you might find yourself. That's

924
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 4: where everybody goes because it's so obvious.

925
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: So when you find.

926
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 4: That, Okay, maybe that's obvious, maybe there's guys doing that.

927
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 3: Well.

928
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 4: I still know where the betting areas are. I still

929
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: know where those dope betting areas are. Now maybe I'm

930
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,919
Speaker 4: gonna slip in from a different direction and I'm gonna

931
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 4: hunt hunt my way in and get in tight. I'm

932
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 4: gonna get in real tight to that betting, and I'm

933
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 4: gonna hunt from the ground where those deer aren't expecting me.

934
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 4: You know, maybe you find something there that you can

935
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 4: capitalize on. That's just kind of off the top of

936
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 4: my head. But I think like just still scouting, but

937
00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 4: having having that open mind of different way to to

938
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 4: hunt in different ways to maybe capitalize on the situation.

939
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 4: We were talking a little bit about that today, like

940
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 4: I sent justin a polo. I said, do you remember that,

941
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 4: I said, the buckbed that we found on the first

942
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 4: public piece we walked. I said, you know, just going

943
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 4: by what you saw, the sign that you read. We

944
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 4: were there together, we saw all the same stuff. I said,

945
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 4: tell me how you would hunt that deer, you know,

946
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 4: what would what would be your approach? And he told me,

947
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 4: you know, he sent the polo back. He told me,

948
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 4: and he said, well how would you hunt it? And

949
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 4: I said, well, that's certainly one way that like, that's

950
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 4: one way I would do it. And then I thought,

951
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 4: you know, because we found some other sign a little

952
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 4: ways away, a big primary straight down in a thermal

953
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 4: hub that was just over I saw to the north,

954
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 4: you know, he he had he had worked his way

955
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 4: to the south. That buck had worked his way to

956
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 4: the south. That's where the sign went. There was water

957
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 4: holes up there. I had a feeling he was going

958
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 4: up there out of bed, staging around that water, waiting

959
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 4: till dark. And then I noticed to the north there's

960
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 4: giant crop fields. So it goes public and a piece

961
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 4: of private ground that had great thick cover and.

962
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 3: Then crop fields.

963
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 4: I said, depending on you know, the oak production you

964
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 4: know here in this in this this timber here on

965
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 4: this ridge, you know, he might be working all the

966
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 4: way to those those fields, like after dark.

967
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: So even though the sign led to the south.

968
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 4: I almost had a feeling he was going up there,

969
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 4: maybe having a drink, marking some sign up on the ridge,

970
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 4: and then actually working down into the bottom and working to.

971
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 3: Those crop fields at a certain point season.

972
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 4: So I had like three different scenarios where I was like,

973
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 4: I could hunt him this way, I could hunt him

974
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,280
Speaker 4: this way, I could hunt him over at that primary

975
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 4: scrape in the next thermalhob that's that's really just over

976
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 4: the ridge. So there was there was three situations there

977
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 4: that I thought that book potentially could be killable. So

978
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 4: you know, if I were to go to hunt it,

979
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,479
Speaker 4: I might try one approach, and if I'm running into

980
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 4: people or you know, I don't have the encounter, I

981
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 4: might I might go to that second approach. That was

982
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 4: an example of that that I thought was really interesting

983
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 4: that we had. We had similar thoughts, but then when

984
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 4: we started talking about different tactics, different options with that

985
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 4: same buck, with that same general information, there was a

986
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 4: lot of possibilities there, you know, and depending on the terrain,

987
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: different types of habitat and stuff, like I hunt a

988
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 4: lot of you know, kind of open country, open ground

989
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 4: a lot of times, like guys want to be up

990
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 4: in a tree. I feel like a lot of times

991
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 4: I'm at an advantage in the ground. You know, I'm

992
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 4: an advantage. I have an advantage out.

993
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 3: In the open.

994
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 4: I can I can decoy while everybody else is in

995
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 4: the little bit of timber there is. So I'm trying

996
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 4: to do things a little different. Even though those spots

997
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 4: that are in are it's a great funnel man, that's

998
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 4: a great betting area. Like yeah, I would hunt that too,

999
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 4: but like that's where the people are, That's where the

1000
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 4: guys that know all this information, that's what they're doing.

1001
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 3: They found it.

1002
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 4: So my approach might be, Okay, I'm gonnahunt away from that.

1003
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 4: I'll be open, try to catch these bucks coming and going,

1004
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 4: or get these these bucks that are getting pressured out

1005
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 4: of there that are living, moving, searching in the open.

1006
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 4: And maybe I have a decoy, or maybe I'm spotting

1007
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 4: and stalking on the ground, or I'm slipping around, you know,

1008
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 4: from cover to cover and trying to you know, take

1009
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 4: advantage that way. So that's an example of like when

1010
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 4: you can be versatile or you have that that those

1011
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 4: skills to pull from. Maybe when the textbook style or

1012
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 4: the textbook you know, ambush spots that everybody knows about

1013
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 4: that everybody's trying to do. That's that's what can set

1014
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 4: you apart, and not everybody has that, you know, in

1015
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 4: the repertoire you do like I've seen you do it,

1016
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 4: You've done it well, you've done it successfully, so you

1017
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 4: have that confidence like, yeah, there might have been you know,

1018
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 4: on some of those Nebraska hunts, there might have been

1019
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 4: an area you wanted to hunt, but man, some guys

1020
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 4: moved in and you had to pivot, you know, so

1021
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 4: you had to figure something out. Next thing, you know,

1022
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 4: you're on the ground with a decoy and you're having encounters,

1023
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 4: so you know, and there's more and more guys getting

1024
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 4: versatile too and more skilled, so the competition is elevating.

1025
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 4: You know, there's no doubt, so you can adapt and

1026
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 4: elevate yourself or things.

1027
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 3: Are going to get tough.

1028
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 4: So it's it's it's certainly in a lot of ways

1029
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 4: more challenging than it used to be because there just

1030
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 4: wasn't that many hardcore guys back then and now there

1031
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 4: are and there are guys that have hunted for less

1032
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 4: than ten years that are way more now eligible or

1033
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 4: you know, as you know, as knowledgeable as some of

1034
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 4: the you know, the great really, you know, because if

1035
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 4: you think about it, a lot of those guys were

1036
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 4: hunting at a time where there was less bow hunters,

1037
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 4: less bow hunting competition, and now there's all kinds of stuff.

1038
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 4: There's all this information. Guys are taking it in. Guys

1039
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 4: are out there just grinding and you know, quitting their

1040
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 4: day job and hunting NonStop, and it's just like blows

1041
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 4: my mind. There's a lot of great hunters out there.

1042
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 4: But I also see things going a different way too.

1043
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 4: I see guys getting lazy with the cameras. They're letting

1044
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 4: their cameras do the work for them. They're letting the

1045
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 4: cameras tell them when and where to hunt. And the

1046
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 4: guy that has that woodsmanship, the guy that has that versatility,

1047
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 4: the guy that can put the pieces together when he

1048
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 4: sees them through scouting, is going to have that edge

1049
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 4: because there are a lot of guys that are just

1050
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 4: planting cameras everywhere and then hunting or that biggest buck

1051
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 4: you know, pings on that camera. So there's a mix.

1052
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 4: There's guys that get after it and there's guys that

1053
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 4: hunt that way. And if there's guys that are hunting

1054
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 4: that way. There seems to be a big portion of

1055
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 4: guys hunt that way. Now, I do think that guy

1056
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 4: that you know has that woodsmanship and puts in that time,

1057
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 4: has that versatility that he's working on. I think I

1058
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 4: think that guy will in the long run continue to

1059
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 4: be successful.

1060
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, kind of like you you kind

1061
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: of led with this. You mentioned how oh you know

1062
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: now today I don't have to go and scout as

1063
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: much as I did. I don't have to do I

1064
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: don't need to pound the payment all the time like

1065
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 2: I used to, because there's all these I know how

1066
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: to use these tools to be more efficient and to

1067
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: e scout and understand these things. And there's all these

1068
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: tools like cameras, like the knowledge we have about the

1069
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 2: conventional places that deer do X or dear do Y

1070
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 2: or all that stuff, and that's available to everybody now.

1071
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: And like you said, so many people have access to

1072
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 2: that and know that that it's it's easier than ever to.

1073
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 3: Reach a certain level of like competency.

1074
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 2: But then if you want to take that next step,

1075
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 2: which is having success above and beyond the average despite

1076
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: all the competition, despite those challenges, it still comes down

1077
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: to what you said in the very beginning, which is

1078
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,479
Speaker 2: like the actual experience that got you to the point

1079
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: where you can leverage those tools to their fullest, so

1080
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: you can actually have that on the grounds, on the

1081
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 2: ground insight to pivot when you need to pit, to

1082
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: pivot to understand how the puzzle pieces actually come together,

1083
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: not how they're supposed to come together, not what the

1084
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: experts say it's supposed to mean, but what your real life,

1085
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: true lived experience has told you, and how you can

1086
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 2: adjust to what you know. The on the ground circumstances

1087
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, it's great to be efficient, and there

1088
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: is definitely efficiencies to be gained, but the only way

1089
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: you get to that point is with good old fashioned

1090
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 2: hard work and developing that well of experience and that

1091
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 2: you know, all the podcasts, all the social media, all

1092
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: the YouTube videos, it can't shortcut that, truly. You still

1093
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: you still need that. So so tell me this to

1094
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 2: wrap it up, Andy, if you could go back in time,

1095
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 2: Let's let's kind of end where we began. Let's go

1096
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: back to twenty sixteen, Andy, twenty years back. Let's go

1097
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: back to two thousand and six. Andy, All right, so

1098
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: you were you were killing a lot of deer back then.

1099
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 2: You were definitely in the in the heat of it still,

1100
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 2: but not old salty Andy that we have now, what

1101
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 2: what do you wish you could go back to that

1102
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: guy and tell him about about this topic? What do

1103
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: you wish you could tell two thousand and six Andy

1104
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: May about scouting that. Of course, you know you can't

1105
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: shortcut the twenty years of experience, But what do you

1106
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 2: wish that person knew that could have helped you better

1107
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 2: take advantage of the experience that you would gain for

1108
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: these next two decades.

1109
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 3: M hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question.

1110
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 4: You know, when I when I think about two thousand

1111
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 4: and six, Andy, I.

1112
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 3: Was scouting a lot like I do now.

1113
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 4: To be honest with yeah, I didn't have the knowledge,

1114
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 4: but I was scouting maybe even harder than I do

1115
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 4: now in a lot of ways. It was just at

1116
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 4: that age where things were really I was really fired

1117
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 4: up and I was really in that learning phase. And

1118
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 4: yeah I was I was shooting some nice deer that

1119
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 4: were mostly rut related deer. But gosh, what would I

1120
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 4: tell him to do differently that would help me? I

1121
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:58,479
Speaker 4: certainly wasn't very versatile back then. I was a rut hunter,

1122
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 4: you know pretty much much. That's that's when I killed

1123
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 4: my deer, even though I was trying to kill.

1124
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 3: Him in other ways.

1125
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 4: So if I could go back and tell maybe two

1126
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 4: thousand and six Andy and maybe tell it, give him

1127
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 4: a few tips of how he could be more successful

1128
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 4: back in two thousand and six, or maybe kind of

1129
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 4: just insert that that knowledge into him, or insert that

1130
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 4: that scouting, that type of scouting tactics into him. Would

1131
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 4: be to learn to scout for other parts of the season,

1132
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 4: you know, try to put more emphasis on finding dough,

1133
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 4: betting on individual buck beds, try to gain more knowledge on.

1134
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: The variety of food choices that the deer have in

1135
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 3: the areas of your hunting. Like I didn't really.

1136
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 4: Know any of that back then, you know, I knew

1137
01:02:55,240 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 4: oaks and apples and water, you know, But now, you know,

1138
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 4: I'm still learning that stuff, especially as I traveled a

1139
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 4: different I'm learning about all these oak trees that like,

1140
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 4: some of them I've never even heard of, you know that,

1141
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 4: because we don't have them here, and you know, some

1142
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 4: of them like post oaks and chestnut oaks and black

1143
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 4: oaks like not like stuff that we just don't have

1144
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 4: a lot of and how you know how valuable those

1145
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 4: can be at certain times of the season. Like, I'm

1146
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 4: learning that stuff more and more as the years go by.

1147
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 4: But I would insert that knowledge into two thousand and

1148
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 4: six Andy of you know, yes, you're pretty good at

1149
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 4: that scouting during the run.

1150
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 3: You can pick out those funnels, you can read.

1151
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 4: Some sign you can find some dough betting areas, you

1152
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 4: can find those those good funnels, and you can you

1153
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 4: grind it out. You can do those all day sits

1154
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 4: and you can you know, you'll never quit. You're you're

1155
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 4: so stubborn and you're you're willing to sit all day

1156
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 4: every day and you're gonna kill some stuff. But there's

1157
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 4: so much that you don't know. And this is why

1158
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 4: you're not killing them early. This is why you're not

1159
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 4: killing them late. So I would I would insert that

1160
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 4: those scouting tactics into two thousand and six Andy of

1161
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 4: learning to scout through for other parts of the season

1162
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 4: outside of that rut. I was very kind of locked

1163
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 4: into that timeframe. So, Yeah, identifying a variety of food

1164
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 4: that's available to the whitetail in the area of your hunting,

1165
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 4: I think that's I think that stuff is so overlooked,

1166
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 4: and it's so important too, because there's so much out there.

1167
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 4: A very high percentage of their their diet is brows, right,

1168
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 4: you know, a super high percentage. So like being able

1169
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 4: to identify you know, different brows, dreambrier, red osier, dogwood,

1170
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 4: and all these different things that are out there that

1171
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 4: most people don't even talk about. Those are so important

1172
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 4: and they can lead you to you know, leads you

1173
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 4: to deer in the in the late season when everyone

1174
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 4: else is struggling and they're looking at their know, they're

1175
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 4: cut cornfield expecting deer to come out, but the combines

1176
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 4: are so effective. Now there's no corn loft. Yeah, you know,

1177
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 4: so those types of things. I really didn't have that knowledge.

1178
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 4: I really didn't know what to look for, and I'm

1179
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 4: I'm getting more of that now over the past.

1180
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 3: Like ten ten years or so.

1181
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 4: So I would insert that into two thousand and six

1182
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 4: Andy to kind of make him more effected, more deadly

1183
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 4: throughout the season, as opposed to just break there in

1184
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 4: the rut.

1185
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you one thing.

1186
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 2: I am glad that this is just a thought exercise

1187
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: and not something that's actually possible, because if two thousand

1188
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 2: and six Andy, had all the knowledge that you have now,

1189
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 2: there wouldn't be a mature buck left in Michigan for

1190
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: the rest of us to hunt. So I'm very glad

1191
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 2: that you didn't figure that out until later in life. Andy,

1192
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 2: And I appreciate you. Know I've said it before, I'll

1193
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 2: say it again. I appreciate the that not only are

1194
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 2: you a great deer hunter, but you're a humble one

1195
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: and one willing to share your knowledge and help others too.

1196
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 2: That's that's a unique quality, and it makes you not

1197
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 2: only a good friend, but also a really good person

1198
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 2: to be a part of our community. So thank you

1199
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 2: for that, and thanks for taking time late tonight to talk.

1200
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate, I appreciate the kind words, and I value,

1201
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 4: always value our conversations on our friendship.

1202
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 3: So thank you.

1203
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: Let's do it again sooner than it's taken to get this,

1204
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: to get this chat in the calendar, and good luck

1205
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: with that Illinois trip.

1206
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks buddy, all.

1207
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 2: Right, and that's going to do it for us today.

1208
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for being here. I hope this one armed you

1209
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: with a few new ideas that you can take into

1210
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: the field this week. It's coming weekend, Great time to

1211
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 2: be out there scouting. So get out there, put some

1212
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: miles on the boots, get to know your property or

1213
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 2: your local public land a little bit better. Take that

1214
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 2: next step, and I guarantee you it's going to help

1215
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: you this come hunting season next time. Thanks for being here,

1216
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 2: and stay wired to hunt. Mm hmm