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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to

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Speaker 1: start today's episode with a look at something that happened

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Speaker 1: very recently in American history, and that is the controversy

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Speaker 1: taking place in American football, not what the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world calls football, as the controversy taking place in

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Speaker 1: American football regarding players taking a knee in protest during

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Speaker 1: the national anthem. I refuse, wait, are you supposed to

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Speaker 1: take any You're you know, you're not supposed to take

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Speaker 1: a knee. It's disrespectful to take in me. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the NFL, I believe, just came out with new rules

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Speaker 1: that UM require players contractually to stand for the national anthem.

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Speaker 1: But as you say, Ben, yes, it was an act

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Speaker 1: of defiance UM, a way of standing up or taking

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Speaker 1: a knee rather for their particular cause. Is that okay?

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Speaker 1: Casey was great. Oh, and that's our super producer, Casey Pegram,

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Speaker 1: who was in fact on the case. And I'm Ben

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Speaker 1: and you are oh, and that makes this ridiculous history. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are not the It's no secret that you and

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Speaker 1: I are not die hard NFL fans, But like many

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Speaker 1: people in this country and in other countries, we were

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Speaker 1: fascinated by this story, by this process of protest and

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Speaker 1: counter protest and nol As you pointed out just a

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Speaker 1: second ago, the NFL did in May of eighteen ban

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Speaker 1: the practice of taking a knee. Although this is a

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Speaker 1: tremendously controversial ban. Yeah, I think it's being appealed or

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Speaker 1: picketed or you know, protested in some way by the union,

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Speaker 1: the players union, I believe, because come on, man, like,

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Speaker 1: if you can't we can't protest as a multi millionaire

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Speaker 1: overpaid sports figure, you know, what does that say for

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Speaker 1: the rest of us? And what does it say about

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Speaker 1: free speech as well? Exactly? Um, but we're talking about, uh,

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Speaker 1: not this exactly. Kind of it's weird that it's part

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Speaker 1: of the story, but we're talking about kind of the

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Speaker 1: opposite of this, which is using sports as propaganda. Right.

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Speaker 1: I would say that we're talking about a a larger

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Speaker 1: context because this specific event in modern history provides an

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Speaker 1: excellent point of comparison to the earlier events that I

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Speaker 1: think surprised both of us when we began digging into this,

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Speaker 1: and sporting events on an international scale have long functioned

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Speaker 1: as acts of propaganda, you know, iconic moments in history

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Speaker 1: occurred at Thelympics, for instance, right, absolutely, And what is

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Speaker 1: the Olympics if not a chance for various countries to

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Speaker 1: achieve perhaps not global dominance and hegemony, but at least

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Speaker 1: dominance on the field of sports foe battle. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we see it in the World Cup, we see it

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Speaker 1: in the World Series, we see it in the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: And today's episode involves a tremendously important political event that

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Speaker 1: took place on a soccer field. We have to go

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Speaker 1: into some political context, I think first, right, I think

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Speaker 1: we do, Ben, It's true. Um, so we're talking about Germany,

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Speaker 1: right And and the second half of the nineteen thirties, Um,

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Speaker 1: the Nazi Party that had taken over Germany was really, really,

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Speaker 1: really becoming quite aggressive, weren't they been. In nineteen thirty five,

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Speaker 1: they publicly announced that they were going to rearm their military,

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Speaker 1: which flew in the face of a little something called

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Speaker 1: the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War One. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that right? Then? That is correct? Null. And We've talked

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Speaker 1: a little bit in the past about the enormous cost

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Speaker 1: Germany bore as a result of World War One and

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Speaker 1: has had dangerous effects on their economy. And it's one

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Speaker 1: of the factors that allowed the very aggressive, expansionist Nazi

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Speaker 1: regime to come into power. And at the time, other people,

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Speaker 1: other countries and heads of state couldn't agree on what

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Speaker 1: the proper unified response to this aggressive German government should be.

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Speaker 1: The question was, should we contain the Nazi Party and Germany,

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Speaker 1: should we openly combat them, or should we attempt to,

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Speaker 1: you know, appease the make it make nice. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's run with that word band. Let's let's make a

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Speaker 1: whole set them out of this policy. We'll call it appeasement.

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Speaker 1: We go about that. But you can understand why. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people were shell shocked from the havoc that was wreaked

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Speaker 1: by World War One all across Europe. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: was no fun. It was utter devastation many parts of

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Speaker 1: the country, and the Treaty of Versailles, even the Allies

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Speaker 1: kind of realized people on the ground, at least from

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Speaker 1: what I've read that the Treaty of Versailles wasn't particularly

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Speaker 1: fair to a lot of the countries that involved, specially Germany,

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Speaker 1: because under the treaty they were limited to having a

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand strong military. But again in thirty five, after

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Speaker 1: they've been kind of amassing weaponry all these years, they

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Speaker 1: got the confidence under Hitler to come out and say, Yo,

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Speaker 1: we are building up our military again. Boo on your treaty.

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Speaker 1: We could care less, and they escalated that thirty six

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Speaker 1: they occupied the Rhineland, which is an area a region

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Speaker 1: of small region in the middle of the country, also

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Speaker 1: totally against the Treaty of Versailles. Yes, and this appeasement

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Speaker 1: policy sound may sound strange to us today because we

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Speaker 1: have the benefit of knowing what happened after this policy

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Speaker 1: was in place. But the appeasement policy is often pointed

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Speaker 1: out as the worst decision that Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain

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Speaker 1: ever made. But there were other British prime ministers who

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Speaker 1: followed the same policy, including Ramsay McDonald and Stanley Baldwin.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't just um made for Germany. It also was

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Speaker 1: applied to uh Italy, which was under the control of

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Speaker 1: a fascist regime at that and it lasted from nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty five to nineteen thirty nine. Our story today takes

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Speaker 1: place during that time. It takes place in nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: eight at a soccer game. It's true and just to backtrack,

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Speaker 1: ever so slightly, to go back into appeasement. Every time

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Speaker 1: the Nazis did these kind of brash moves like occupying

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Speaker 1: the Rhineland. In the year of our story, they annexed

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Speaker 1: Austria UM, and they actually like did a coup data

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Speaker 1: within their not already pretty strong Nazi party within Austria,

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Speaker 1: and Austria being Hitler's boyhood home. Right, We're going to

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in this episode going from

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Speaker 1: the specific events to the larger context. So before we

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Speaker 1: get to the famous event that occurred in May May four,

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Speaker 1: let's go back earlier in the year to April, where

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Speaker 1: we saw another precedent set an example of protests through sport. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the one we kind of alluded to at the top

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Speaker 1: of the show, because, like I said a minute ago,

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Speaker 1: it was in nineteen thirty eight that Germany really UH

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Speaker 1: went hard in the paint and totally annexed Austria, as

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Speaker 1: I said, over to the government in UM an effort

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Speaker 1: to combine the two countries UH in an event they

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Speaker 1: referred to as the a Schloss, and UM Austria had

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Speaker 1: a pretty balling pun totally intended UH soccer team football

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Speaker 1: team headed up by a guy by the name of

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Speaker 1: Matteias Sindler or Schindler I've heard, I'm gonna I think

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Speaker 1: it's similar. There's no sc h s I M d

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Speaker 1: e l a r um. And then he had a

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Speaker 1: really cool nickname, didn't name, Yeah, it was the Paperman

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Speaker 1: or paper in uh sindelar s I n d e

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Speaker 1: l a r was known as the Mozart of football

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Speaker 1: as well. Saw that one. He played as the center

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Speaker 1: forward for the Austria national team that was known as

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Speaker 1: the Wonder team, and he captained the nineteen thirty four

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Speaker 1: World Cup. This guy is a football superstar. And this

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Speaker 1: game that occurs on April third and nineteen thirty eight

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Speaker 1: was meant to celebrate what Germany was calling. Get this,

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Speaker 1: Austria's coming home to the Reich. Come on home to

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Speaker 1: the Reich, Come on home to the Reich. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: but here's a problem. Simdler hated the Nazis predictably. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they totally came into his his country, took

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Speaker 1: it over, tried to change everything about his way of life,

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Speaker 1: including trying to smush his football club in with the

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Speaker 1: German football club. That sucked by the way Germany was

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Speaker 1: not good at at a Can I call it soccer?

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call it soccer. Yeah, just call it

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Speaker 1: soccer all. As a matter of fact, we have a

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Speaker 1: fun firebomb to throw for you ridiculous historians. If you

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Speaker 1: were football or soccer fan, actual Molotov cocktail, it might

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Speaker 1: be a bit ince injury for some people. I found

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Speaker 1: this article in The Atlantic called why Americans called soccer

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Speaker 1: soccer by Uri Friedman. It's a British term, us term,

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Speaker 1: and we hear in the States picked it up from England.

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Speaker 1: The word soccer originated in England, fell into disused there

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Speaker 1: and became dominant in the States. And there are some

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Speaker 1: people who have studied this who found. What they did

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Speaker 1: is they looked at the frequency with which the words

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Speaker 1: football and soccer appeared in American and British news outlets

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Speaker 1: dating back to nineteen hundred. Soccer was a recognized term

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Speaker 1: for the game we're describing for the first half of

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Speaker 1: the twentieth century, but it wasn't widely used until after

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Speaker 1: World War Two, when it became interchangeable with the phrase

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Speaker 1: football and sometimes used together soccer football. Okay, but I'm

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Speaker 1: an American. I'm an American I'm proud of it, So

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Speaker 1: I call hitting that that ball? What what would you

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Speaker 1: hit your foot with the ball game? I'm gonna call

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Speaker 1: it soccer, so just just as not to confuse, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to American football. That sounds ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: so I had to say it in a British acts

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Speaker 1: exactly say American football, although the fact the Brits have

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Speaker 1: been dominant in the sport since the very beginning. I

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Speaker 1: want to sew this up real quick because I'm sure

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Speaker 1: this is going to interest several of you ridiculous historians,

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Speaker 1: especially if you've had an argument with one of your

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Speaker 1: friends across the pond about this. It traces back to

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Speaker 1: World War Two. Most likely American troops stationed in the

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Speaker 1: UK during the war came back and started using that phrase,

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Speaker 1: and that led to a backlash against the word in Britain.

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Speaker 1: And now this word has completely immigrated to the US.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? If you still haven't given me the automology,

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Speaker 1: it's just like it said about the socks, the knee socks,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you're socking the ball around with your

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Speaker 1: foots it's a shortening of association footballer that's stupid. So soccer,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the worst possible. But you can't. You can't

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Speaker 1: go in and expect a language to conform to what

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Speaker 1: you as an individual. I'm not mad at you, then,

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean that to come off like I was

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Speaker 1: your fault that the the the origin of soccer is

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Speaker 1: so dull. But I'm disappointed. I think it's fascinating. It

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Speaker 1: is fascinating, Ben, you know what else is fascinating. Back

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Speaker 1: to Sindler, let's do it um so again, super salty

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Speaker 1: about the Nazis coming in and invading his home turf

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Speaker 1: and trying to you know, jam up his his soccer club.

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Speaker 1: Um and so they this this game in question in

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Speaker 1: what do we say, April of nineteen April third, nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty eight. That's right, it's meant to be, on paper,

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Speaker 1: at least, a celebration of the historical legacy of the

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Speaker 1: Austrian Soccer club and the last match that the team

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Speaker 1: would have as an independent Austrian team before it gets

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Speaker 1: smushed in with the uh far inferior German club. So

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Speaker 1: so they began protesting the moment they hit the field

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Speaker 1: kind of well, the what I what I had seen

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Speaker 1: in an amazing documentary from the BBC called Fascism and Football,

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Speaker 1: was that it was very clear that the Austrians had

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Speaker 1: been told to lose. Yeah, to throw the game, throw

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Speaker 1: the match to show the symbolic or propagandistic importance of

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Speaker 1: aligning with Germany. That's right. And and and just to one

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Speaker 1: quick aside, one quote that I think is so amazing

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Speaker 1: from this documentary Fascism in Football Orther. You can find

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Speaker 1: the whole thing on YouTube and it's just great. Is

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Speaker 1: the idea that um sports were such a powerful tool

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Speaker 1: for propaganda because when you win, you win, and you

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Speaker 1: can't like, no one can accuse you of lying. Because

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Speaker 1: if you win an are dominant in a sport, then

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Speaker 1: that's just before everyone's very eyes. You are the clear,

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Speaker 1: you're the winner. You you won and you played by

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Speaker 1: the rules. It's what we today would refer to as optics.

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Speaker 1: Optics are And so the star player of Austria's team Sindelar,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It refuses to go along with this plan.

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Speaker 1: He says, I am not going to pay obeesience to

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Speaker 1: this invading power. And furthermore, I'm not going to cheapen

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Speaker 1: the most important thing in my life when the funny

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Speaker 1: thing is too like, yes, you're absolutely right, he definitely

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Speaker 1: did not go along with it, and that he did

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Speaker 1: not look like he was trying very hard. He made

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Speaker 1: it very clear that he was just kind of farting along,

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Speaker 1: very lackluster lee right. Um. I think he was like

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Speaker 1: shaking his head and disdain kind of and refused to

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Speaker 1: wear the uniforms. They were supposed to wear their traditional

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Speaker 1: white and black. They replaced it with uncendolars orders. More

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Speaker 1: or less, the Austrians played in red white red outfits

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Speaker 1: the national flags colors and uh and yeah, like you're saying,

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Speaker 1: the audience knew something was up because it seemed like

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Speaker 1: they just weren't trying. They were just farting around until

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Speaker 1: what the last twenty minutes Yeah, and then uh and

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Speaker 1: then Simdler the paperman um scored one of two goals

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Speaker 1: and Karl Sesta got the second one, who I think

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Speaker 1: was his bestie. I think I think they were they

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Speaker 1: were like really really close, and yeah, they totally totally humiliated.

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Speaker 1: The Nazis apparently kind of did one of those like

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Speaker 1: end zone kind of cocky yeh, cock of the walk

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Speaker 1: kind of dances right in front of like, can you

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Speaker 1: imagine the scene ben the stands full of Nazi officials,

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Speaker 1: high senior Nazi dignitaries, and they celebrated extravagantly. They owned

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Speaker 1: the moment because they really had publicly humiliated these officials.

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Speaker 1: And it's we don't have solid historical proof of this,

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Speaker 1: so this is entirely speculation on my part. But I

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Speaker 1: would not be surprised if some of those pro Nazi forces,

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Speaker 1: knowing in theory the outcome of the game, had decided

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Speaker 1: to gamble on it a bit. So they were out money,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, they were out public credibility, oh app solutely.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing, as you might imagine, similar was

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Speaker 1: made persona non grata at that point. He was declared

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Speaker 1: in their internal Gestapo memos on him that declared him

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Speaker 1: pro Jewish among other uh death sentence were they distinctions

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Speaker 1: like a social democrat that's it's uh. He about it.

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Speaker 1: Within the year or within a year after these events,

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Speaker 1: he was dead at the age of thirty five under

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Speaker 1: the most suspicious circumstances. I think he had been out

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Speaker 1: partying that night and gambling in a coffee shop that

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Speaker 1: he was a part owner of, or the guy that

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Speaker 1: talks about his buddy in the documentary, referred to it

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Speaker 1: as his coffee shop. I'm not sure if that was

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Speaker 1: just a translation thing or if it was just like

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Speaker 1: the place where they would all hang out. But they

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Speaker 1: were gambling, playing cards. A lot of money was on

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Speaker 1: the table and a lot of drinking. And then he

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Speaker 1: went back with his girlfriend to her apartment, and you know, YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: One thing led to another. They go to sleep and

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Speaker 1: they never wake up because they died of carbon Actually,

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Speaker 1: she ended up in a coma that she never recovered from,

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Speaker 1: and he died in his sleep of carbon monoxide poisoning,

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Speaker 1: which was recorded as an accident. Because super cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because according to Egon Old Brick, lifelong friend of Sindelar,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy I was talking about that. I was

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Speaker 1: talking about the gambling night. Yeah yeah, he uh, he

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Speaker 1: says in the documentary, And then also in an article

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Speaker 1: called Football Fascism in England's Nazi Salute on the BBC

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Speaker 1: by Jonathan Duffy, he says that the truth of the

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Speaker 1: story was that a local official was bribed to record

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Speaker 1: Sindelar's death as an accident, ensuring that he would receive

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Speaker 1: a state funeral, because when we have a great quote

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Speaker 1: from Old Brick about this, because Nazis had particular rules

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Speaker 1: about this, that's right, this is the quote. According to

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Speaker 1: Nazi rules, a person who had been murdered or who

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Speaker 1: has committed Sue's side cannot be given a grave of honor.

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Speaker 1: So we had to do something to ensure that the

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Speaker 1: criminal element involved in his death was removed. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: wild man, and it continued escalating. Yeah, the Germans were

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Speaker 1: very very serious about the value of propaganda, and from

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Speaker 1: their perspective, this sort of insolence could not stand. So

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Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious that he was murdered, no doubt. And

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Speaker 1: did we mention the fact that for a while, as

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Speaker 1: the Nazis rose to power, maybe this is obvious to

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Speaker 1: everybody but me, they kind of masked their awful racist ways.

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Speaker 1: But they didn't reveal the full nature of their final

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Speaker 1: solution or their idea of you know, pulling up the

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Speaker 1: Jews in the roma Um people, or any of the

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Speaker 1: just horrible, horrible racist leanings until a good bit later.

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Speaker 1: And this was still during that time where obviously they

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Speaker 1: meant business, but the true nature of their evil was

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Speaker 1: not on full display. Yet well, it was also in

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Speaker 1: that time. This is unfortunate and ugly truth. In that time,

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Speaker 1: anti Semitism was widespread, we know that, Yeah, just like

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Speaker 1: throughout Europe, definitely also clearly in the US. And the

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Speaker 1: same prejudices applied to Roma as well and other quote

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Speaker 1: unquote you know, subversive elements or what they would call deviance.

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Speaker 1: So these people, this group had existed throughout various countries

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Speaker 1: in Europe for centuries, right, And the shocking racism, the

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Speaker 1: anti semitism, uh, the iron clad and puritanical attitudes about

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Speaker 1: sex were normal. If you read a German textbook about

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Speaker 1: the concept of living space for the German people, it's

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Speaker 1: not that different from many other textbooks of the time

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Speaker 1: that also argued the innate superiority of certain ethnic groups,

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Speaker 1: and it might change during the country. So people didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I think the point you're making this really important is

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Speaker 1: people did not know that there was genocide on the horizon. Privately,

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Speaker 1: members of the Nazi regime were already thinking of ways

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Speaker 1: to forcibly deport elements of the population they didn't improve up,

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to figure out where to put them,

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Speaker 1: like would it be Madagascar, would it be some other

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Speaker 1: country and then eventually, as we know, this led to

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Speaker 1: one of the most horrific occurrences in human history. God,

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Speaker 1: and I hate to get political about it, but it

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Speaker 1: feels like when you start reading about the early stages

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Speaker 1: of the Nazi takeover and the kind of rhetoric that

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Speaker 1: kind of this nationalistic rhetoric, while not overtly racist, very

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Speaker 1: dog whistle racist in a very similar way that we're

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Speaker 1: experiencing in our country right now, And it scares the

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Speaker 1: crap out of me reading this, thinking about history repeating

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Speaker 1: multiple countries, right, absolutely, So we've got this, We've got

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Speaker 1: this context with this Sindelar who now we know was murdered,

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Speaker 1: but originally we don't really know. I mean, yeah, you can't,

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Speaker 1: it couldn't. Come on, You're right, we don't know for sure,

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Speaker 1: those those classifications. I mean, he was everyone says that

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Speaker 1: was a death sentence. Somebody had their eye on him,

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Speaker 1: and not in a good way. So in this, in

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Speaker 1: this context, we have the precedent for protests, and then

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Speaker 1: we have the precedent for sport events overall, especially football, soccer, football, soccer,

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Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it. We see this as a

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Speaker 1: medium for propagandistic communication. Let's get back to this concept

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Speaker 1: of appeasement. Let's talk a little bit about Neville Chamberlain yea,

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Speaker 1: and how far this idea of appeasement went in in

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Speaker 1: the way it played out on what the Brits referred

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Speaker 1: to as the soccer pitch. Yeah yeah, we talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about media manipulation in the modern day, but it

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Speaker 1: was a known, tried and true technique here in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties as well, so much so that going back

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Speaker 1: to May ninety four, of May English soccer players traveled

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Speaker 1: to Germany to play the German team in a soccer match.

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Speaker 1: That's right, but minus uh yeah, minus there there as

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Speaker 1: in the whole uh Siindler who was still living at

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Speaker 1: this time, but he refused, probably another reason he was

347
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Speaker 1: blacklist than the way he was to add insult to injury,

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Speaker 1: he refused to play for the new combined Austrian Germany team,

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Speaker 1: which obviously was just called the German team. Um, he said,

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Speaker 1: We cited old age, but he was like thirty five

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Speaker 1: I think, and also simultaneously injuries, so it was just

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Speaker 1: a bit of a f you two old. So let's

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Speaker 1: set the scene, casey, could we have maybe the sound

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Speaker 1: of a of a crowd at a at a soccer match,

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred thousand soccer fans file into Berlin's

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Speaker 1: Olympic Stadium and the countries. At this point everybody knows

357
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Speaker 1: war is escalating. Things are ratcheting up right, and these countries,

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Speaker 1: Britain and Germany are still playing nice. They don't trust

359
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Speaker 1: each other, but they're still going through the motions and

360
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Speaker 1: the gestures of diplomacy, and swastikas and British flags are

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Speaker 1: flying side by side. The German national anthem is being

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Speaker 1: played over the speakers, but on the field below. If

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Speaker 1: you can imagine this in your mind, fellow historians, something

364
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: very strange occurs. The German and the British players raised

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Speaker 1: their arms in the infamous Nazi salute. The hile let's

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Speaker 1: hear the Cliff Cup final enthusiasm prevails in Berlin when

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Speaker 1: England meat Germany on the soccer field. All the cutticis

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Speaker 1: are observed before the stop God to save that the

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Speaker 1: king just played and the English team in White churchs

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Speaker 1: get the Nazis salute during the German national anthem. So

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Speaker 1: that was newsreel footage from the Associated Press on the

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Speaker 1: day of this infamous event. Um. And and it's reported

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Speaker 1: eerily in a matter of fact kind of way. Um,

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Speaker 1: But there was a lot of controversies around in this

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Speaker 1: game because by this point, if not their full final solution, level,

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Speaker 1: complete and utter evilness was on display. People knew that

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Speaker 1: the Nazis were fascists oh yeah and big time yeah.

378
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Speaker 1: And the British press, despite efforts a media manipulation to

379
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Speaker 1: make the population pro appeasement, the British press had had enough,

380
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Speaker 1: absolutely outrage and it was even there was even more

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Speaker 1: insult to injury because it turned out, despite this gesture

382
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Speaker 1: on the part of the English team, Adolf Hitler wasn't

383
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Speaker 1: even at the game. It wasn't present. They were just

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Speaker 1: saluting the idea of Nazis. No, it's true. In fact,

385
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Speaker 1: like I think the very first game he ever attended

386
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Speaker 1: earlier in this story, the Germans lost two. I think

387
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Speaker 1: it was the Netherlands or a smaller team that was

388
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Speaker 1: seen as being less uh skilled than the German team,

389
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Speaker 1: and he was really irritated about that, so he he

390
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Speaker 1: didn't always make appearances. Um. But no, he was not

391
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Speaker 1: at this game. And the thing is, the Germans did

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Speaker 1: lose this game. Um, they got there. Uh, they're brought

393
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Speaker 1: worse handed to them by um the Brits, who again,

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Speaker 1: as we said, we're pretty damn dominant in the sport. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's an interview in this documentary with the guys like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really that big of a surprise because pretty

397
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Speaker 1: much everyone lost to the UK. Yeah. Can we play

398
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: that guy's clip? I just love his voice. To lose

399
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 1: to England at that time was nothing unusual because basically

400
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: everybody lost to the British team at the time. Uh

401
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: So I think for Hitler, the propaganda effect of that

402
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: game was a lot more important than everything else. Right,

403
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: they were known to be one of the best teams

404
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: on the planet. They won the game six to three,

405
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: six England three Germany, and the weird thing about the

406
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: scores it was somewhat of a footnote because the thing

407
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: everybody was focusing on was this bizarre attempt at diplomacy.

408
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't spontaneous on the part of the English team.

409
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: Neville Chamberlain had in advance told them to do it,

410
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Speaker 1: and the from what we understand, the intent of this

411
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: was to make ice and show that Germany was not

412
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: considered to be a quote pariah state, despite the fact

413
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: that they pac manned up Austria, and that was also

414
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: kind of part of Germany's propagandistic way of looking at

415
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: this was to show that, hey, we're just like you.

416
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: We we we like to play sport and we like

417
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: to goose step around in our strange Nazi uniforms and I, oh, wait,

418
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: something's wrong here. Showcase our superior because I want to

419
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: go back a little way, just because I think this

420
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: is a really important point. Um. The real stage center

421
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: for Hitler's use of sport in this way was the

422
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six Olympics, Berlin Olympics UM, which is super

423
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: interesting because that was like a world stage. Everyone's watching

424
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: it's in Berlin. Hitler's there. He used it as an

425
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: opportunity to showcase, like he said, the efficiency, um, the

426
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: militaristic might of the Nazi state. UM. But there was

427
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: a little kink in Hitler's idea here of showcasing the

428
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: you know, might and prowess of the Aryan supremacy or

429
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: what have you. Um this mythos he was trying to create.

430
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: When Jesse Owens, an African American competitor, won four gold medals,

431
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: that's right. Then four gold medals. Uh, it was in

432
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: the hundred meter two D long jump and four by

433
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: one hundred meter relay race, just completely in front of

434
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: God and everyone crushing that idea. Hitler was none too pleased, right,

435
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: which is which is weird because this is such an

436
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: iconic moment, and you know we're going to brag a

437
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: little bit. Jesse Owens is American, so take that Nazis. Indeed,

438
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: do you like our bragge as if we had anything

439
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: to do with her? Yeah? But there's an interesting tidbit

440
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: here because so this occurs in August of August first,

441
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: I think is the first day of competition. There was

442
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: a newspaper editor named Robert L. Van, himself African American,

443
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: who was at the scene, and in an article dated

444
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: to August four, he says, wonder of wonders, I saw

445
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: Harry Adolf Hitler salute the lad I looked on with

446
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: a heart which beat proudly. Is the lad who was

447
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: crowned king of the one event got an ovation the

448
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: like of which I had never heard before. I saw

449
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: Jesse Owens greeted by the Grand Chancellor of this country

450
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: as a brilliant son peeped out through the clouds. I

451
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: saw a vast crowd of some eighty five thousand or

452
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: ninety thousand people stand up and cheer him to the echo.

453
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: And that is winning hearts and minds, isn't it. I

454
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: think it's so easy to underestimate the importance that these

455
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: sorts of events can play in human history. Yeah. Now,

456
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: because people, I mean I've seen um pieces whole you know,

457
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: paper has written about the idea of sport as a religion.

458
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: People put as much credence in you know, baseball players

459
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: and basketball players they do, and you know God right

460
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: like King James the name for Lebron because it's a

461
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: stand in for our hopes and dreams. You know, even

462
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: if it's sort of a false dichotomy. It's because you

463
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: win a soccer game as a country doesn't doesn't really

464
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: translate in reality to your might or prow ass. It's

465
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: sort of a micro cosmic view of that, which is

466
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: why so many countries spend so much money and time

467
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: and occasionally so much uh effort at skullduggery when it

468
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: comes to winning international sports competitions. I have a thing

469
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: I'd like your take on, and you as well folks,

470
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: do you think sport the concept just sports games? Do

471
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: you feel like it has taken in the most powerful

472
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: parts of religion, the most powerful parts of war, and

473
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: the most powerful parts of economy. I feel like it has.

474
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: Thank you just answered your own question. What do you think?

475
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: I think it's a very no. I think that is

476
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: an astute point. And Um, I think that's absolutely true.

477
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: And I think we see that too with what we

478
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: opened the show with. Um, the idea of the power

479
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: that these players have, and when it when it doesn't

480
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: jive with the money behind the power, or like the

481
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: organizational power behind the scenes, there can be issues. Sometimes

482
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: it involves people getting carbon monoxide poisoned to death in

483
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: their sleep. Sometimes it involves getting you know, players being

484
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: suspended for not for taking a knee during a national anthem. Um.

485
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: It's just interesting the way politics and sports can be

486
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: so intertwined. And I think it all goes back to

487
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: even earlier than this. This is just probably the biggest,

488
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: most obvious political example that we have. But to your point, Ben,

489
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: as far back as the Romans and Gladiators and bread

490
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: and circuses and all that, sport has always been a

491
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: powerful tool to manipulate the minds of the people. And

492
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: manipulate maybe is the wrong word. I don't know, what

493
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: do you think. I feel like manipulate is a perfect

494
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: word for this. Also, we have to we have to

495
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: point out spoiler alert for World War two everyone, so

496
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: tune out if you don't, if you don't want to

497
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: get spoiled for this. Uh. We have to point out

498
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: that Chamberlain's in Britain's appeasement policy did not work. It

499
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: was just a little more than a year before tensions

500
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: broke the war began, correct, Yeah, it was September of

501
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: nine the Nazis invaded Poland. Uh, and that was just

502
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: a bridge too far for the Allies. They'd finally had enough. Um.

503
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: The Germans leagued up with the Soviets to partition Poland

504
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: into their own, uh, separate spheres of influence. And that,

505
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: my friend, is um the story of how World War

506
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: two really began in earnest Uh. And that's the story

507
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: for another time. No. I really enjoyed this episode, Nolan.

508
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: I hate to close so soon. Hey, what do you

509
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: say we do a little bit of listener mail? Huge fan?

510
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: So the first one I want to pull from a

511
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: Facebook post that is is a really good summary of UM.

512
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: A myriad of emails we got Facebook posts of some

513
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: few few people slid into our d M s on

514
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook. I loved all of them, by the way,

515
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: thanks for writing to us folks, no doubt, but they

516
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: very gingerly shreded us on our pronunciation of a few

517
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Philadelphia ms. Let's say it together three to one

518
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: school kill only as some people that even quibble with

519
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: that one, which is why it makes me feel good

520
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: about it. This guy says, laughing at Ben Bowling and

521
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: Noel Brown butchering school kill River, I believe we said

522
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: shore colation of shoy kill, sholl kill whatever it was wrong, UM.

523
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: This guy John C. Says it's pronounced school all caps

524
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: dash kill and then added you added John a smiling,

525
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: laughing emoji, so we knew that we hadn't fatally offended,

526
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: you know. He shredded us with love and then Ben

527
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: um as as we're want to do on Ridiculous Historians,

528
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: UM posted a delightful response saying we murdered that pronunciation

529
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: so hard that this episode counts as true crime. Hey,

530
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: thanks for us, and he says thanks for listening. As

531
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: well for the valuable correction. I did say thanks for

532
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: you just quoted me to yourself. You that's weird, but yeah,

533
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: but check out this thread. This is part of the

534
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: reason why we love the Ridiculous Historians page because some

535
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: of your fellow listeners didn't just point out the correct

536
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: or accepted pronunciation of this river. Uh. Some of them

537
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: also began bantering back and forth, disagreeing on their own

538
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: ideas about pronunciation right big time. And then we had

539
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: one Oliver Ce pop in with a little Georgia centric

540
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: thing saying, here in Georgia they call the old Muddy

541
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: River okmulgi ok muggi okamogie, and that's spelled o c

542
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: m u l g e e. But the funny thing is,

543
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: I am from Georgia and I've always said okmulgi and

544
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: I've heard it pronounced that way. But whatever you say, um,

545
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: and then ge like clarified, buttermogi. Okay, no, no no, that's right, okamogi.

546
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: That's right, I've heard it that way. Um. And what

547
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: you would think would be Houston County is actually Houston County,

548
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: which I've noticed. Yeah, that happened to me one time. Yeah.

549
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: And then we've got a guy Rob s saying Jersey

550
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: born and raised here, I always heard it as school kill. Yeah,

551
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: dropped the L and John C comes back in in

552
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: the thread and says, I don't know with Philadelphians have

553
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: much room to talk about pronunciation, and he shared this

554
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: fascinating Washington Post article about the unique Philadelphia accent, which

555
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: I highly recommend you check out, like wooter ice yeah,

556
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: which is basically like what like a like a freeze

557
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: pop or like kind of Italian ice beach towels beach

558
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: towels yet uh. And we've got a question that I

559
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: think will interest a lot of us in the audience,

560
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: and it is this, what are the strangely pronounced places,

561
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: landmarks or things in your neck of the woods. Because

562
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: for instance, you know, there's Worcester in Massachusetts, which is

563
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: completely not pronounced how it sund There's there's Peabody in Boston,

564
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: I believe, or in massachuse as well, where it's apparently

565
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: pebody Pbody, which is another um county or town in

566
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: in in Massachusetts. Yeah, so it takes all kinds. Let

567
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: us know, we want to hear We're not exaggerame, we

568
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: want to hear the weirdest ones who knows you. You

569
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: may save us from you may you may save us

570
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: from a future internet post. You bring it on, babies,

571
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: I love it. So we want to thank you, of

572
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: course for journeying with us through this story of sports

573
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: and protest and appeasement. We want to thank Casey Pegram

574
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: and we want to thank Christopher haciotis our research associate

575
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: who hipped us to this story. Have a sound effect, Jim,

576
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: Let's see who else do we think? Oh, Alex Williams,

577
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: who can post our track? And you Noel brown Man. Yeah,

578
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: that's why I'd like to thank you too. Man. Oh boy.

579
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: So stay tuned for our next episode, where he delved

580
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: into a strange story about Heineken which was actually really

581
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: inspiring to me. Heineken dead perhaps Blue Redding? All right, yeah, well,

582
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: I mean it takes all beers. Uh, you know, I'm

583
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: a PBR man. Yeah, you're you are a PBR man.

584
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: But you know what, You can't build a hut at

585
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: a PBR cans. Oh well you could, it just wouldn't

586
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: be as cool. Now, what the heck are we talking about?

587
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: You maybe asking yourself tune in to find out. In

588
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: the meantime, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter,

589
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: and yeah, we we were about to roll out that

590
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: in interest page. I think that I'm doing a vision board.

591
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm keeping an analog bro. I like, really, yeah, you're done,

592
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: You're off the net. No, the vision board at least

593
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: is it's just it's a wall in my house and

594
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: I just paste up different pictures. I've been going through

595
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: a laser tag phase that oh cool, like like like

596
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: you you're gonna go laser tag fashion from here on out.

597
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: You're gonna come to work looking like Tron and stuff.

598
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: That would be cool. Are you in? You're interested in this,

599
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: shut man? I'll try anything, you know, a bunch of

600
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: times awesome. In meantime, if you don't want to do

601
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: any that stuff, which you should, um, you can also

602
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: join the Facebook rep Ridiculous Historians, or you can send

603
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email at Ridiculous at how

604
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com