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Speaker 3: I am more Hand, the creator of PhD Comics.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and definitely not

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Speaker 1: an artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 3: And welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Listeners of the podcast will know that I am particularly

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Speaker 1: fascinated by aliens and the search for alien intelligence, because

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Speaker 1: I hope that those aliens will one day reveal the

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Speaker 1: future and secrets of physics to us. But I'm also

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Speaker 1: equally fascinated in the search for intelligence here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean among the political class, but I

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Speaker 1: mean in our computers. Whether our computers can be intelligent,

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Speaker 1: whether they will be intelligent, maybe they will discover secrets

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Speaker 1: of physics and unravel them for us. Well, today we

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Speaker 1: have an amazing combination of those two ideas wrapped up

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Speaker 1: together in one podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are once again taking questions from some friends

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Speaker 3: of ours. So to be on the podcast, we have

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Speaker 3: the host of a popular podcast here to ask us questions.

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Speaker 3: So to be on the program, we have the host

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Speaker 3: of the podcast Sleepwalkers with listener today, So Kera Price

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Speaker 3: and Oz Washing. Hey guys, Hi, Hi, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having us. We're not just listeners, but we're

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Speaker 4: super listeners and big fans and hoping that you can

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Speaker 4: explain the universe to.

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Speaker 3: Us today, not the whole universe, just some It sounds

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Speaker 3: like a great idea for podcasts. Yeah. So Kara and

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Speaker 3: Oz produce and host the podcast Sleepwalkers, which is also

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Speaker 3: by r Heard Radio, and which is about everything you

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Speaker 3: need to know about artificial intelligence, right, guys.

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Speaker 5: Hopefully it is everything, but yeah, the way it's affecting

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Speaker 5: people's lives in different areas.

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Speaker 4: And I was interested, you know, to hear Daniel that

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Speaker 4: you use machine learning in your work, because we're focusing

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Speaker 4: more on how AI can help us understand complex systems.

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Speaker 4: So not just simple cause and effect, but you know,

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Speaker 4: multifarious interacting causes which produce hard to explain effects. So

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Speaker 4: we were looking today death actually, and how death involves

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Speaker 4: the collapse of all these different systems, and the collapse

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Speaker 4: of one system might affect another system, and how hard

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Speaker 4: it is for doctors to predict time of death because

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Speaker 4: it's hard for people to conceive of the interaction between

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Speaker 4: different types of systems and different types of data points.

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Speaker 4: But that's something that computers are very good at.

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Speaker 1: That's right. One of the things we do is that

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Speaker 1: we take these big, complex pictures of particle collisions and

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Speaker 1: then we have to try to unravel and we have

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Speaker 1: to try to wonder what's going on in the data,

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Speaker 1: and so we use machines, we use computer intelligence to

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Speaker 1: do that sometimes, but we also want to interpret it.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to your podcast last week about making

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Speaker 1: sure these things make sense and how do we understand

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Speaker 1: the decisions these computers have made. And that's the same

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Speaker 1: problem we have here in particle physics, because nobody wants

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Speaker 1: to publish a paper that says the computer found a

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Speaker 1: particle in the data. We can't see it, but trust us,

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Speaker 1: it's there. Very interesting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we were talking to Arthi Prabaka, who ran DARPA

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Speaker 4: for a few years until twenty seventeen. And she was

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Speaker 4: telling us that this concept of explainable AI is a

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Speaker 4: big priority at Dopper right now.

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Speaker 3: So cool to hear you working on it. Start us off,

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Speaker 3: maybe if you can tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 3: yourselves and a little bit about the podcast and how

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Speaker 3: we can find it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you said, my name is Kara Price. I'm

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Speaker 5: the co host of Sleepwalkers, and my background is well

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Speaker 5: in content production, but that's not fun for a podcast.

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Speaker 5: But I did have a show on huff Post called

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Speaker 5: Talk Noted to Me That was a video show where

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Speaker 5: we asked other big questions not only pertaining to the universe,

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Speaker 5: but sometimes pertaining to the universe.

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Speaker 6: So I do have a general understanding.

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Speaker 5: Of some of the things that you guys talk about

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Speaker 5: on your show, and I've gotten to speak to some

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Speaker 5: really interesting folks at NASA, and I've gotten to it

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Speaker 5: was during the time of you know, when they first

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Speaker 5: detected gravitational waves, and so we did a lot of

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Speaker 5: research around that, and I became particularly interested in gravitational

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Speaker 5: waves from that for the show. And also I grew

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Speaker 5: up with a father who was obsessed with both the

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Speaker 5: universe and extraterrestrial life and actually edited a book called

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Speaker 5: the universe, and he was an adult man, so he

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Speaker 5: could not go to space Camp, but sent me to

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Speaker 5: Space Camp when I was ten years old. I think

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Speaker 5: I went there before I went to Sleepway Camp. So

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Speaker 5: I've always had a Solar system consciousness, I think more

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Speaker 5: so than your average middle schooler that has to learn

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Speaker 5: about it in school.

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Speaker 6: At least.

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Speaker 5: I sort of grew up in the shadow of the

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Speaker 5: nineteen sixties and having a parent that really was obsessed,

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Speaker 5: obsessed with the fact that we had landed on the Moon,

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Speaker 5: and obsessed with astronauts and going to space, and also

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Speaker 5: understanding sort of is their life in the cosmos. So

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Speaker 5: from a personal standpoint, these are the things that I

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Speaker 5: think about kind of on a daily basis.

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Speaker 6: So being on your show is quite interesting. And then

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Speaker 6: also you.

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Speaker 5: Know this idea of will we ever find life on

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Speaker 5: Mars or on other earth like plants where they can

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Speaker 5: actually survive.

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Speaker 3: Or will they find us? Or have they or have

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Speaker 3: they found green? And ask tell us a little bit

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Speaker 3: about you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm afraid I don't have nearly quite such a

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Speaker 4: romantic origin story as Cara, But I'm interested in origin stories,

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Speaker 4: origins of the universe, origins of computer science, origins of

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Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, and I was a huge fan of Kara's

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Speaker 4: work on Talk Nerdy to Me, So when I started

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Speaker 4: thinking about Sleepwalkers as a show, you know, she was

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Speaker 4: the first person I reached out to for advice on

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Speaker 4: how to build it, and then I got very lucky

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Speaker 4: that she didn't just want to give me advice on

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Speaker 4: how to build it, but also join the show. So really,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's a show which about technology and about

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Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, but it uses those topics as a way

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Speaker 4: in to have big conversations about our culture, our society,

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Speaker 4: and what makes us human more of the limits of

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Speaker 4: our humanity. And so, you know, as the series has progressed,

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Speaker 4: we've gone from looking at how algorithms are able to

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Speaker 4: understand us and know us in some better than ourselves

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Speaker 4: and thus influence us, whether that's to buy or to vote,

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Speaker 4: or to appear at protests or to keep swiping on

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Speaker 4: dating apps, and then as a series is progress, we've

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Speaker 4: looked at medical applications. As Cara was mentioning what happens

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Speaker 4: in a world where we can use AI to interpret

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Speaker 4: our biological signals, the mess of our biological signals that

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Speaker 4: tell us when we might die or the mess of

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Speaker 4: our genome to tell us what kind of illnesses we

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Speaker 4: may be prone to, how tall our children may be

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Speaker 4: and what color their eyes will be, and whether we

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Speaker 4: want to intervene in that. And our final episode of

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Speaker 4: the series of season one is coming out in two weeks,

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Speaker 4: which features an interview with Yuval Noah Harari, who wrote

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Speaker 4: Sapiens and Homodeus, really asking the question what does all

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Speaker 4: of this new technology mean for our status as humans?

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Speaker 4: Are we on the verge of speciating becoming a new

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Speaker 4: species of people who are technologically enabled. And obviously there's

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Speaker 4: a bunch of people looming in the background like Elon Musk,

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Speaker 4: who kind of constantly ringing the bell for terror, and

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Speaker 4: he's somebody who's worked on transhumanism in the form of neurallink.

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Speaker 4: Also somebody who's interested in the potential for us living

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Speaker 4: in a simulation, Which is an episode of your show

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Speaker 4: I really enjoyed. But we try to take a more

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Speaker 4: neutral line, looking for some of the optimistic things that

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Speaker 4: this new technology will allow for us and for our

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Speaker 4: species to enjoy and perhaps even have more time to.

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Speaker 3: Play or listen to podcasts, listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Well, hopefully that I will make our next podcast, so

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Speaker 4: we would have to Yeah, we can still get from

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Speaker 4: our voice hopefully cool.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you are interested in artificial intelligence, which I

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Speaker 3: think everyone should be at this point, please go check

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Speaker 3: out their podcast. But today we'll be answering questions from

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Speaker 3: us and care related to the universe and aliens and

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Speaker 3: astrology and fate and so let's jump into it.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think I speak for all women now I'm joking.

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Speaker 5: I think astrology is becoming a multi billion dollar industry

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Speaker 5: with absolutely no grounded facts, and so I'm always interested

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Speaker 5: in talking about astrology, but I don't really know so

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Speaker 5: much about how it relates to astronomy, even though I

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Speaker 5: probably should.

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Speaker 6: And so I figured i'd ask.

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Speaker 5: A question about that and maybe you guys could give

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Speaker 5: me a decent answer.

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Speaker 6: So I can, you know, school my friends.

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Speaker 3: So the question is, what does astronomy have to do

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Speaker 3: with astrology?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Besides just trying the word astro in front of him.

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Speaker 1: I think you just answered the question. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: those letters are about all they have in common. I mean,

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Speaker 1: astrology is like, you know, looking at the stars and

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Speaker 1: identifying constellations and imagining somehow that the constellations that were

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Speaker 1: in the sky when you were born might dictate who

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Speaker 1: you are and the events that happened to you in

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Speaker 1: your life. You know, it's really mysticism, whereas astronomy that's

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Speaker 1: like a scientific study of the universe. Let's look out

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Speaker 1: into space and try to figure out it's out there

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Speaker 1: and how does it work, and can we build a

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Speaker 1: model that actually makes sense? And so there's really almost

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Speaker 1: no overlap at all. The overlap might be that astrology

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Speaker 1: relates to constellations, and constellations are kind of weirdly a

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Speaker 1: lot of people's introduction to astronomy, you know, people look

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Speaker 1: up at the stars and they see these constellations and

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Speaker 1: that's fun, and that sort of draws them into the

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Speaker 1: mystery and the majesty of the night sky.

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Speaker 4: Now, is it possible that the way in which we

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Speaker 4: look at astrology today future generations will look at what

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Speaker 4: we think of as astronomy. In other words, would it

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Speaker 4: be a system for understanding the world which future scientific

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Speaker 4: revelations proofs or demonstrates was actually a flawed understanding.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that future generations will look back at our

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Speaker 1: astronomy and they will snicker at our misconceptions. Right, They

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Speaker 1: will think, oh my gosh, they thought that the universe

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Speaker 1: was like this. It turns out.

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Speaker 3: It's like that.

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Speaker 1: But that's you know, that's the part of the process

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Speaker 1: of science is corrections, and there's nothing to be ashamed

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Speaker 1: of in modern day astronom On me, we've made dramatic understandings,

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Speaker 1: and anything that we misunderstand, we're happy to have a

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Speaker 1: new understanding. Astrology is a little bit different, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not a scientific understanding. It hasn't come to

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Speaker 1: be out of a method which has been built to

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Speaker 1: separate fact from fiction. It is really just pure fiction.

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Speaker 1: When I think about astrology, astrology is to astronomy sort

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Speaker 1: of like what weather gods are or rain dances are

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Speaker 1: to meteorology, you know.

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Speaker 3: Like which is a much more precise science.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. You know. The thing that amazes me

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Speaker 1: is that these things are so often linked because they

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Speaker 1: really have almost nothing in common. And I go to

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Speaker 1: plant I take my kids to planetariums, for example, and

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Speaker 1: very often they start off a planetarium show with the constellations.

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Speaker 1: They're like, this is this constellation, this is that constellation,

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking this is supposed to be like an

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Speaker 1: extronomical educational experience supposed to be learning about the universe.

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Speaker 1: But constellations have no insight into the universe at all.

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Speaker 1: They're just they're an artifact of where we happen to

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Speaker 1: be in space. You know, you look at the stars

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Speaker 1: in a particular constellation, they look close together because of

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Speaker 1: where we are, but you know, some of them are

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Speaker 1: zillions of light years apart. You look at them from

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Speaker 1: another perspective, there's no constellation there at all. So it

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Speaker 1: always frustrates me that essentially they begin with astrology, with

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Speaker 1: with the zodiac signs, with basically Bronze Age myths, you know,

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Speaker 1: as an entrance to astronomy. That always frustrates me.

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Speaker 6: So the stars don't ever align really for anybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people have charmed lives, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's because of the stars.

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Speaker 4: Is it possible? I mean I've always wondered, you know,

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Speaker 4: people feel the moon for example, Like I've been with

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Speaker 4: people who want it's a full moon. They feel some

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Speaker 4: kind of connection to the moon, or they feel some

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Speaker 4: sense of excitement and wildness. Is that pure projection? Is

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Speaker 4: there is there any possibility that solo events or planets

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Speaker 4: moving through our galaxy can on a particle level, affect

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Speaker 4: us or connect with us.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know your friends, are they sort of

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Speaker 1: they get sort of hairy and a little more too

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Speaker 1: thye when the moon comes out that light that all

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Speaker 1: the time, Well, they sound fascinating thing. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's not a stretch actually said that the moon affects people, right,

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Speaker 1: because the moon is pretty close and it certainly has

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Speaker 1: a physical effect on the Earth that causes the tides.

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Speaker 1: It affects the things on the planet, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: But I suspect that that's a lot a lot of

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Speaker 1: that is psychostomatic. That you know, seeing the moon affects

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Speaker 1: the way people feel. You have to just do some

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Speaker 1: sort of blind study where people couldn't see the moon

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Speaker 1: and just feel it. But the other planets and stars.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. We were talking about this just

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Speaker 1: recently on the podcast. It is true that you feel

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Speaker 1: the effects of other atoms in the universe. In fact,

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Speaker 1: every other atom in the universe. There's, for example, an

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field that connects you the protons and electrons in

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Speaker 1: your body with the electrons everywhere. But those things are

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Speaker 1: negligible because the power of those things drops as the

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Speaker 1: distance squared, So the electrons in Alpha Centauri have no

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Speaker 1: measurable effect on you and the out and the you

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Speaker 1: know where that we know of where Jupiter is, where

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Speaker 1: Saturn is, doesn't affect whether or not you should like

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Speaker 1: say yes to a date or invest in SpaceX.

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Speaker 5: Alpha Centauri is acting super crazy.

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Speaker 3: Well, to be fair, Daniel, you shouldn't base the decisions

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Speaker 3: on astrology or astronomy either one.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Well, the stock market is just a random

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Speaker 1: chance anyway, so you know, just roll a die and

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Speaker 1: make your investments. That's my advice.

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Speaker 4: But sat is real, and.

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Speaker 3: They start with constellations because it sort of gives you

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Speaker 3: a little bit of context about what we humans see

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Speaker 3: in the sky and what we are yearning to understand

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Speaker 3: how the sky is related to our lives.

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Speaker 4: Right, that's really interesting, So I can I can imagine, Daniel.

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Speaker 4: It must be frustrating on the one hand to have

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Speaker 4: the specter of astrology haunting astronomy. On the other hand,

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Speaker 4: the fact that people have a baseline interest in the

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Speaker 4: stars maybe is you know, net positive?

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Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, I just wish it wasn't diverted

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Speaker 1: into astrology. You know, it's like if somebody asks, oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: tell us about you know, the particles in the universe

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Speaker 1: and what everything's made out of. You don't start off with, well,

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Speaker 1: there's fire, air, wind, and earth, you know whatever, like

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Speaker 1: the four elements the Greeks thought. You know, you begin

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Speaker 1: with things we actually know. You begin with, you know,

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Speaker 1: true facts about the universe. I think, I think there's

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Speaker 1: so much amazing stuff in astronomy that you don't have

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Speaker 1: to begin with astrology to get people excited. Just wow

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Speaker 1: them with reality. The universe is a crazy, amazing place,

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Speaker 1: and there's lots of cool stuff out there.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: When people refer to a whole it's you know, the

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Speaker 5: universe telling me to quit my job, or it's just

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Speaker 5: the universe doesn't think that I, you know, that I

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Speaker 5: should be with this guy or this girl whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know, like the.

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Speaker 1: Universe has a personality and opinions about your new dating.

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Speaker 3: Life, and you would disagree as a degree in psychotherapy

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Speaker 3: right exactly what.

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Speaker 4: It's the same we see in our coverage of AI's

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Speaker 4: people like to anthropomorphize machines and algorithm algorithmorithm algorithm algorithm,

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Speaker 4: you know, and it's kind of a bit of a

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Speaker 4: cop out isn't it to thinking about how we are

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Speaker 4: responsible for our and outcomes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's something really fascinating there. Actually, it

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Speaker 1: says something really interesting about human intelligence and consciousness. You know,

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Speaker 1: And here I'm very far from my area of expertise,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I think that that people are really

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Speaker 1: good at identifying intelligence outside of themselves. Right. It's certainly

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Speaker 1: a survival tactic to say, like, oh, this creature here

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Speaker 1: seems to be aware and intelligent and be an agent.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's how people identify, you know,

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Speaker 1: will in other beings. And it's very natural to extend

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Speaker 1: that to the universe, to say, like, you know, it

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Speaker 1: seems like there's some organizing intelligence it's acting in this

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Speaker 1: way to bring storms or to start wars or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder how easily people will apply that to

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Speaker 1: a you know, when we have AI that is that

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Speaker 1: can mimic human human intelligence that really is interchangeable with

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Speaker 1: a human being, will people be tempted to give them

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Speaker 1: human rights, you know, because they appear to suffer. Do

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Speaker 1: they really suffer? You know, these are really fascinating questions

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Speaker 1: that I think you guys probably should answer in your podcast.

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Speaker 6: Well, if you watch.

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Speaker 5: I mean if you watch, like there's there's videos on

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Speaker 5: the Boston Dynamics YouTube right of or there's there's videos

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Speaker 5: where you watch robots either getting beat up or watch robots,

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Speaker 5: you know, dog fights breaking into dog robot fights or

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Speaker 5: dogs pulling a truck. Am I supposed to feel bad

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Speaker 5: for this robot dog that has to pull a truck

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Speaker 5: as opposed to what dogs should be doing, which is

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Speaker 5: playing and using their minds and building tech companies? So,

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Speaker 5: you know, I think we don't deliver in burritos exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think these questions are going to come up. I

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Speaker 5: think they're already coming up, you know, just in terms

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Speaker 5: of who are we who are we blaming when when

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Speaker 5: algorithms go wrong, and even blame an algorithm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the real question I think obviously all

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Speaker 3: goes back to he.

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Speaker 6: Didn't know what he was making.

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Speaker 1: And when the dog ais takeover, will have to ask

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Speaker 1: them if they're interested in astrology, if they just skip

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Speaker 1: over and go straight to astronomy.

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Speaker 3: What's what's the dog constellation? What's the do fo?

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Speaker 1: I think Orion has a dog? Doesn't ryan have a dog?

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Speaker 3: There you go, maybe the hunter? Yeah, but it seems

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Speaker 3: like Danny, you're saying, the answer is that astronomy is

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Speaker 3: a science, it's based on facts and observations and data,

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Speaker 3: but astrology is really just sort of people making stuff up.

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Speaker 1: Astrology is spiritual mysticism, and you know, some people find

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Speaker 1: it helpful, but it's definitely not science.

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Speaker 4: In this political moment, you know, with you know, you

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Speaker 4: have the ministers in Britain saying, you know, we're past

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Speaker 4: the age of experts, and you have a lot of

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Speaker 4: conversations about fake news in the US, and that's something

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Speaker 4: we've looked at on our podcast is deep fakes and

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Speaker 4: how manufactured media can you disturb the notion that truth

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Speaker 4: exists anywhere? And that's obviously having big implications through our politics.

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Speaker 4: Is that how much of a concern is that in

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Speaker 4: the world of science that you know, in the end,

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Speaker 4: somebody might turn around and say, well, I choose my

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Speaker 4: facts and in my universe astrology is just as bad

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Speaker 4: as astronomy.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that the sort of two answers there. One,

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Speaker 1: I think that general public has already lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of faith in science as an institution, not because science

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Speaker 1: has misbehaved, but because our political leaders have begun dismissing

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Speaker 1: it and pushing it away from having a role at

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Speaker 1: the table. The facts of reality are not always convenient.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's another angle to that, which is

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Speaker 1: fakes in science. And actually there, you know, there are

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Speaker 1: scientists who fabricate data and produce papers with images that

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Speaker 1: are not actually taken from their experiments. But the fascinating

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Speaker 1: thing is that they're very easy to detect. They just

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Speaker 1: take an image that's in another figure in the same

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Speaker 1: paper and like inverted or flip it or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: there might be a day when scientists use sophisticated AI

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Speaker 1: to generate false data for their papers, but that day

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Speaker 1: is not yet here.

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Speaker 5: Well, and you also just have the larger problem of

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Speaker 5: misinformation in the case of, you know, the flat Earth

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Speaker 5: or movement.

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Speaker 1: I still can't tell if the flat earth or movement

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Speaker 1: is a bunch of trolls or people really believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, does anybody actually seriously believe that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's a crazy offshoot of YouTube radicals.

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Speaker 5: I don't think there's going to be much progress made

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Speaker 5: in the scientific establishment.

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Speaker 6: It's an interesting.

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Speaker 5: Example of how the algorithm has impacted people's perception of

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Speaker 5: reality and science because those were Most people who have

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Speaker 5: been radicalized in that way were radicalized on YouTube by

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Speaker 5: being suggested other video like videos.

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Speaker 1: Well, folks just need to listen to our show and

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Speaker 1: they'll understand everything exactly.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 3: The thing about that idea of fake science is that

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Speaker 3: do you think, Daniel, that we can always just verify

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Speaker 3: these things? You know, like if somebody says, hey, I

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Speaker 3: can clone human beings but nobody else can do it,

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Speaker 3: then you know that casts some shadow on their claim, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, That's the nice thing about science is that there's

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Speaker 1: always somebody else out there who wants to prove you wrong,

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Speaker 1: and so fake results don't last very long. We talked

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Speaker 1: about that on a podcast recently about cold fusion, how

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Speaker 1: folks claim to have invented fusion that you could do

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Speaker 1: at room temperature, but then within months lots and lots

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Speaker 1: and lots of groups tried to reproduce it and couldn't,

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Speaker 1: and so it went from a media sensation to you know,

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Speaker 1: to fringe ridiculousness in just a few months. And so

439
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,479
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the real strengths of science

440
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: is that it has this self correction because we can

441
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: always refer to the experiments because in the end it's

442
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: grounded in truth in facts. That's not always the case

443
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 1: about you know, mainstream discussions and the news media.

444
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 3: So you have two other questions. I think those are

445
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: pretty interesting about life and other planets, and also about

446
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: those UFO sightings by the Navy. Yes, and so we'll

447
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: get into those, But first let's take quick break.

448
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,199
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Speaker 7: AI might be the most important new computer technology ever.

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488
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Speaker 3: All right, we're here with Kara Price and Oz Walshin,

498
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 3: the host of the podcast Sleepwalkers, which is about artificial

499
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 3: intelligence and society and culture. And today we're taking questions

500
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: from them to experts in AI, asking one expert about

501
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 3: the universe and one cartoonist deep questions about the universe,

502
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 3: and so Kara, what's your second question?

503
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 5: Well, it really freaks me out to think that there

504
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: could be a bunch of lifelike creatures living on a

505
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 5: planet that I don't know exists. So my question is,

506
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 5: what are the chances that there's such a thing.

507
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: Why do you say life like?

508
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 6: Well, I guess, I guess.

509
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 5: You know what, it really trips me out to think

510
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 5: about there are human beings on another place that don't

511
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 5: know that there are human beings on Earth. So we're

512
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: all we're both living, minding our own business, shopping at

513
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 5: whole foods, living on different planets, and is that happening?

514
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 5: Is that possible that there is that there are supermarkets

515
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 5: on another.

516
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: People I mean like a humans like people, or just

517
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: like weird blobby green aliens who also happen to have

518
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: whole foods.

519
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: I think Kara is worried that maybe on alien whole

520
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: foods the prices are lower.

521
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 3: How do I get That's impossible, That is physically impossible.

522
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 5: No, I guess my point is is, you know, if

523
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 5: there are Earth like planets, could they be producing Earth

524
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 5: like human beings.

525
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, is there life

526
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: elsewhere in the universe, and you know, if they only

527
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: exist as slimy, tentacled creatures, can they still push a

528
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: shopping cart at Whole Foods?

529
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 8: Right?

530
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: That's a deep question about the universe. A lot of

531
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: people have asked, and I think it's a fascinating question

532
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: because it goes right to like the context of human existence.

533
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: You know, are we alone in the universe? Or are

534
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: we one of many? You know, is there other civilizations

535
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: out there? And I think that's something people have wondered

536
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: for a long long time. And the fascinating thing is

537
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: that we still really have no idea what the answer

538
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: to that question is. But the most amazing thing is

539
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: that I think one day we will This is the

540
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: kind of question that we're currently ignorant of the answer. Right,

541
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: we don't know if there's lots of other civilizations out

542
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: there or we're the only one. But one day we

543
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: will know, and people will look back and wonder, like,

544
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: what was it like to be ignorant about this really

545
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: basic question about the universe? And so it's fascinating and

546
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: exciting and also sometimes frustrating to live back in that

547
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: age of ignorance about the universe. But is it.

548
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: Possible that there are other intelligent life forms in the universe,

549
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 4: and we will never until the end of time.

550
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, I mean, all of these things are possible,

551
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: you know. There here's the whole range. Like, we know

552
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: that there's lots of earth like planets out there. We

553
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: know that like twenty percent of stars out there have

554
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: an earth like planet, which is incredible because there's twenty

555
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: percent one in five. Yeah, and you know, we only

556
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: learned that recently. We've known for a long long time

557
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: that there's zillions and zillions of stars in the universe,

558
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: but we didn't know how often they made earth like planets,

559
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: Like is it unusual? And that's that's the problem, is

560
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: that we only have this one data sample Earth, and

561
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: so we're at tempted to extrapolate and wonder if there's

562
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: lots of others, but we don't know if we're unusual.

563
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: And does earth like mean between thirty and forty degree

564
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: or between zero and forty degrees celsius normally with oxygen,

565
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 4: nitestrem carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and water, what what's

566
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 4: the definition of earth like.

567
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: And and whole folds. Yeah, yeah, no, it means a

568
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: rocky planet. So this is a surface and roughly the

569
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: right amount of solar radiation so that you could get

570
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: liquid water on the surface. We don't know if there's

571
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: going to be liquid water there. We certainly don't know

572
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: about oxygen. Oxygen is actually hard to make. You need

573
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: microbes for a long time to produce oxygen typically, but

574
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: just you know, very basic rocky planet with about the

575
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: right distance from the sun so that the water is

576
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: not frozen and so it's not super duper hot. Right,

577
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: that's pretty basic requirement. And so we now know that

578
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: there's zillions and zillions of those, and now the question

579
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: is how many of those have life, and how many

580
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: of those have intelligent life, and how many of those

581
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: have technologically intelligent life, and how many of those have

582
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: technologically intelligent and intelligible life right that we could actually

583
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: communicate with and recognize. And the frustrating thing is that

584
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: that the number is either is somewhere between one hundred

585
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: percent of those planets have a life and Earth is

586
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: the only one right one over like a trillion, and

587
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: we just really don't know the answer. It's that or

588
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: somewhere in between. And the reason is that we've only

589
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: ever seen this one planet where it's happened, which is Earth.

590
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: There's a book called The Unbearable Lightness of Being by

591
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: Milan Condera, beautiful book about love, and the protagonist is

592
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: wondering about his relationship and should he stay or should

593
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 4: he go? And there's this phrase in German which survives

594
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 4: into English translation, which is ein mal is kind mal

595
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 4: or once is none, basically to say that if you

596
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: only have a sample size of one, you can never make.

597
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: A good decision. Scientifically, we only have this one data point,

598
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: and it'll just blow it open once we can visit

599
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: one more planet. Just one more will tell us a

600
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: huge amount, because if that other planet also has life

601
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: on it, boom, life on another planet. We've discovered it.

602
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: We've answered the question. If it doesn't right, then it

603
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: tells us that the number is probably a lot less

604
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: than one hundred percent of Earth like planets have life

605
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: on them. The other reason why it's sort of a

606
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: struggle is that we still don't really know how life

607
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: started on Earth. You know, if we had a really

608
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: detailed mechanistic understanding of that process, you know, to go

609
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: from lifeless but with the ingredients of life to life beginning,

610
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: then we could answer this question scientifically, we can build models.

611
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: We could say how often that happened, but we don't.

612
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: It's still a mystery to us. We know it took

613
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: about five hundred million years or maybe a billion years

614
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: to some controversy, but we don't know how it happened,

615
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: and so we can't really speak concretely about whether it's

616
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: likely to happen elsewhere.

617
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: Well, I kind of have a question for you guys.

618
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: So let's assume that there is an advancedization out there,

619
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: or there are many out there. Do you think it's

620
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: inevitable that they will all be overtaken by artificial intelligence,

621
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: or that they will develop it and maybe taken over

622
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 3: by it, as some people fear will happen to us.

623
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: Do you feel like AI is inevitable?

624
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 4: That's a very interesting question. Yeah, I mean I was

625
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 4: going to say that, you know, if you think about statistics,

626
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: you know, one of retreat and chance that I wouldn't

627
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 4: I wouldn't bet on that. So from that point of view,

628
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 4: you know, I would if I was a gizlin a

629
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 4: fun setti, because I would think that, you know, in

630
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: statistical likelihood is that something does exist out there?

631
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: So what is AI?

632
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: I mean, AI is statistics and probability, and computers are

633
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: able to harness the power of statistics and probability in

634
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 4: order to make predictions about the future. So you would

635
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: assume that other beings of our sentience and intelligence would

636
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 4: also create, you know, computer like machines to help with

637
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 4: mathematical equations. And if they did, the logical progress of

638
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 4: that would I think to be towards artificial intelligence. I'm

639
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: curious for Daniel's thoughts on that.

640
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: I think that's a wonderful question. I actually once wrote

641
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: a science fiction story in which an organic creatures develop

642
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, which then wipes them out. And then and

643
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: then thousands or millions of years later, that machine based

644
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: society develops organic computers, which then grow into intelligence and

645
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: wipes out the machine based civilization comes full circle.

646
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 6: What an organic computer even look like?

647
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 3: Like?

648
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: Oh, you have one in your head right now?

649
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 6: Oh true brain?

650
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: Sorry, neural networks, Yeah, exactly.

651
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: No.

652
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: I think that these are really fascinating questions, and this

653
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: is exactly why I want to meet the aliens, why

654
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: I want to collaborate with them, why I want to

655
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: be first in line to talk to them, Because these

656
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: are deep questions that can only really be answered by

657
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: getting more data. You know, is the physics that we've

658
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: developed the physics of the universe or the physics of humanity?

659
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: Is artificial intelligence and natural outgrowth of technology and computerization,

660
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: or is it just the consequences of human thought and civilization.

661
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: We really don't know the answer to that, and we

662
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: can't really ever tell until we meet those aliens and

663
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: talk to them about it.

664
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of meeting other aliens, we'll get to your

665
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: last question, Kara, which is about does UFO signings by

666
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: the Navy. But first, let's take a quick break.

667
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

668
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

669
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

670
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are US. Dairy

671
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

672
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

673
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

674
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

675
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

676
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk cleans equipment, washes

677
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

678
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

679
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

680
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

681
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

682
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

683
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

684
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

685
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

686
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,680
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687
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699
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700
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701
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710
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Speaker 3: All right, kra what's your last question? It's about something

711
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: that seems straight out of the X files, right.

712
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 5: Yes, it is out of the X files, I think.

713
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 5: I mean, what's going on with the US Navy and UFOs.

714
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 5: I've always followed UFOs sort of casually or just the

715
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 5: hype the crazy, but it seems like it's in the

716
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 5: New York Times now right now, I'm paying attention. I mean,

717
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 5: an unidentified flying object is a drone. No, if we

718
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 5: know what a drone is, it's not a UFO, right.

719
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: I mean a UFO is a technical description of something

720
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: in the sky that is unregistered by whatever. The air

721
00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: traffic control is.

722
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 6: Right to be a teenager flying camera.

723
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: Right, But in this case that's not so glamorous.

724
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: No, it's just the Navy pilots have seen weird stuff

725
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 4: in the sky, and because they're in the Navy, we're

726
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 4: intclined to trust them more than you know, the tin

727
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 4: hat Brigade. But the real question is is what they're

728
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 4: seeing real or is it more likely that their brains

729
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 4: are being, you know, in some sense overwhelmed by all

730
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 4: the censory data of flying that fast and that high.

731
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 4: What's going on?

732
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: Tell us Dan Illinois.

733
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: Let's step back for a second. So I assume that, like,

734
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: for example, I have not seen these latest articles in

735
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: the New York Times. So is there something new going

736
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: on in the world of UFO sightings and spotting.

737
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: There is a little bit. There's there's sort of a

738
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: long history of Navy pilots seeing weird stuff and reporting it.

739
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: And there was like an incident in two thousand and

740
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: four around an aircraft carrier where some pilots reported seeing

741
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: something that could do things that no plane could do.

742
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: You know, it could drop really really quickly towards the ocean,

743
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: it could disappear under the water and come back up,

744
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: and the pilot's there said that it looked like a

745
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: big tic tac And you know, these things happen occasionally

746
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: and people brush them off. But recently the Navy released

747
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: some footage, some video of an encounter in twenty fourteen,

748
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen where the pilots actually got this stuff on video,

749
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: and it shows these aircraft doing some pretty weird stuff,

750
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, making sudden stops and starts and turning really quickly,

751
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: dropping really fast, accelerating really quickly, things that appear to

752
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: do things that that humans couldn't survive, you know, because

753
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: humans can't survive very very fast accelerations. And so there

754
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: were these this footage and the Navy released it to

755
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: the publics and so it's out, there's on YouTube. People

756
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: like watching it and dissecting it. And then there was

757
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 1: just very just a couple of weeks ago, I think

758
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: the Navy briefed a bunch of top lawmakers in the

759
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: United States, you know, about what is the status of

760
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: the UFO thing, and so it's sort of come like

761
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: into the mainstream, away from the fringes, so.

762
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: That I guess that's the big news is that the

763
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 3: Navy is being kind of open about right. I think

764
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: that's what is throwing people off, that it's openly talking

765
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 3: about these sightings and it uploaded video.

766
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the Navy has now like an official

767
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: policy for pilots for how to report UFO sidings. Whereas

768
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: it used to be like something I think pilots were

769
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: loaths to admit, you know, because it made them seem crazy.

770
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: Now the Navy's encouraging pilots and giving them a formal

771
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: process to report this stuff so that we can get

772
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: a clear picture for sort of what's going on.

773
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 5: Which I think says a lot about the times.

774
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 6: In which we live. That now you're not crazy if

775
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 6: you see a UFO, you're just being a good pilot.

776
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: Well, you're probably crazy to be a pilot in the Navy. Maybe, yeah,

777
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: a little bit. No, I'm just kidding.

778
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 5: There is a relationship between this and AI actually, because

779
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 5: it's the same. Senator Mark Warner is one of the

780
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 5: people who's called for a briefing from the Navy is

781
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 5: also today introducing something called dashboard, which stands for designing

782
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 5: a wunting Safeguards to help broaden oversight and regulations of

783
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 5: Data Act.

784
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: And that was a man that is a golden acronyms.

785
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 6: Is it is pretty good.

786
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 4: Here's the guy who's out in front on trying to

787
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 4: compel technology companies to tell users the value they're generating

788
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 4: from their data each.

789
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 6: Month, like literal cash value.

790
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 4: But he's also the guy who, as Cara said, called

791
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 4: these call these closed door hearings. I mean, if they're

792
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 4: closed door, there maybe something going on with the Navy

793
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 4: about these UFO sightings. And his spokesman said something like

794
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what they are, whether it's drones or

795
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 4: little green men. Senator Warner is focused on keeping our

796
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 4: pilots safe.

797
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 5: And getting Google to pay me back from my geode

798
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 5: location data.

799
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: Well, I thought this is really fascinating, and I was wondering, like,

800
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: what do people out there think about UFOs? Do they

801
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: think it's evidence of aliens? Do they think that's impossible?

802
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: So I walked around campus the U s ervine this

803
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: morning actually and asked folks what they thought about the

804
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: latest UFO signings and whether they thought aliens had ever

805
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: visited the Earth.

806
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: Here's what people had to say.

807
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: Do you think aliens have visited us here on Earth?

808
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 5: Uh?

809
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: No, no, why not?

810
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: I don't have proof of that or any signs of

811
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: them visiting us?

812
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, I don't think so. No, why not?

813
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 3: It's because you would have known by then.

814
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 11: Like, I'm not sure, like if we have actual evidence

815
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 11: what about UFOs, I don't know.

816
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: It could be anything.

817
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 8: I think it's possible, but I don't think like there's

818
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 8: any reason to think that they have what about UFOs?

819
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that could be like just stuff in space.

820
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 8: Like, but I think it's possible that there's aliens and

821
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 8: that they visited us, but like, I just don't have

822
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 8: any reason to believe it.

823
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 6: I guess.

824
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 11: I mean there's been that whole thing's to Nadi, right,

825
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 11: So I think it's definitely possible, But I don't know

826
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 11: if there's definitely proof that has happened.

827
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: If they're here on Earth and flying around, why don't

828
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: they just make themselves known?

829
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 11: Right? Unless they're waiting for like a to become a

830
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 11: qute unquote intelligence pieces by their centreds.

831
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: No, no way, not because I'm Egyptian.

832
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 11: So that would mean that the pearance would built pay

833
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 11: undis and I don't like that.

834
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 3: I think there's explanations that don't involve extraterrestrials. But again

835
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 3: I don't know.

836
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: So this is generally skeptical of the alien hypothesis.

837
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 3: Skeptical is a good word. Yeah, So some pretty a

838
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: wide range of answers there. Right, A lot of people

839
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: seem very skeptical, and some people seem very Egyptian and

840
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 3: have strong opinions.

841
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: I think he took that as a cultural threat.

842
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, pyramids they appropriated by extraterrestrials.

843
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think overall there's a lot of skepticism.

844
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: I think, you know, people have heard about stories UFOs,

845
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: but I think they imagine, you know, if aliens came,

846
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: it would be a thing you'd see about, you'd read

847
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: about it, and the cover of the New York Times,

848
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: you'd see the aliens meeting the president, right like. It

849
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't just be one story and then fizzle away. So

850
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: I think because people have heard of these stories lots

851
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: of time, then it's sort of turned into nothing. There's

852
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism now built up in the general

853
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: public about whether aliens have visited.

854
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 6: And that would be the time for aliens to strike,

855
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 6: by the way.

856
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 3: That's right, spoof over a bunch of times, and then

857
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: when our guard is down, they can swoop in.

858
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 6: That's right.

859
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: Why would you imagine they strike. Maybe they're just visiting

860
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: here as a scientific delegation to give us the secrets

861
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: of the universe, right.

862
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: But first they want to play practical jokes on us.

863
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying.

864
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: One of the things I found interesting about this story

865
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 4: is that the Navy pilots, very few of them have

866
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 4: actually seen these things with their own eyes. What happens

867
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 4: is their radar systems or their weapons systems will tell them.

868
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 4: That will tell them there's something there. We'll see an object,

869
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 4: and then they'll fly down to where the object's meant

870
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 4: to be and there'll be nothing that they can see

871
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: with their own eyes, although there was I think one

872
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: case where this kind of ball flew straight past the

873
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 4: window of the aeroplane. So short of aliens, like, what

874
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 4: are the explicable phenomena of physics which would explain what's

875
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 4: happening here?

876
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really fun. Because I look this up

877
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: and I said, like what experts say? And the experts

878
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: have like a list of explanations, but they're all very generic.

879
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: You know, they're like, well, pilots fatigue, basically hallucination. But

880
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, we see these videos, right, so there's something there.

881
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: It's not just the pilots being being tired, or they

882
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: say like weird atmospheric effects or you know, classified government

883
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: programs testing new kinds of aircraft. Basically your list of

884
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: generic explanations. And at the end they always say, of

885
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: course it could be aliens, but you know that's very unlikely,

886
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: and so this's just sort of this go to list.

887
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: But the problem with those explanations for me is that

888
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: they're not specific. They're not saying, well, I looked at

889
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: this video and here's an alternative explanation. There's no specific,

890
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: credible hypothesis that can say here's how this event happened.

891
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: Here's how that event happened. It's just sort of a

892
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: general sort of the same reaction that the folks on

893
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: the street had. It's sort of a general skepticism. So like, well,

894
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to believe it unless I have

895
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: three or four ten pieces of data that show me

896
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: its aliens. They're willing to sort of scoff off one event,

897
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: which is fair? Right, I don't know is it fair?

898
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: I mean, if aliens came to Earth, how would it happen?

899
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: Right?

900
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 8: Like?

901
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of the more interesting question, Like,

902
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: say aliens had come to Earth, right, what would that be? Like?

903
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: Why would they be here and sort of zip around

904
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: playing games over the ocean near fighter near US Navy

905
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: fighters and not make themselves known? Right? That's sort of

906
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: a like, in what scenario does that happen to me?

907
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: That's sort of the interesting question.

908
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: You mean, they could be like tourists or scientists studying.

909
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 3: Is that kind of thing?

910
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean we talked a minute ago about

911
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, the likelihood of finding other life. My personal belief,

912
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: not based on any science at all, is that the

913
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: universe is filled with life. And because it just seems

914
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: very unlikely that the Earth is the only place for

915
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: this to have happened, and we know how many Earth

916
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: like planets there are, and so I imagine that the universe

917
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: is filled with life. And then the question is like,

918
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: why haven't the alien visited? And you might say, oh,

919
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: they're really far away. But it turns out that the

920
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: universe is pretty old in comparison to its size, so

921
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually take that long to explore. Like if

922
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: you're a single civilization and you want to explore the

923
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: whole galaxy, it doesn't take billions of years. It only

924
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: takes tens and tens of thousands of years. And the

925
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: galaxy is very old in comparison to that number. So

926
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: it sort of feels like they should be out there,

927
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: that should be exploring. We should have been contacted. So

928
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: then if you wonder, like why haven't we been, you

929
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: have to come up with explanations, like they have come,

930
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: but they're hiding from us because, like you say, maybe

931
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: they're scientists, they're observing us, or they're tourists or whatever.

932
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 4: When you say it's older and it is large, you

933
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 4: mean it grows very slowly and therefore it's more navigable.

934
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 4: What's the relationship between the age and the size of

935
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: the universe that makes it more likely that we should

936
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 4: have been contacted.

937
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean that the galaxy is big, right, and so

938
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: you might think, oh, it's too far to get to

939
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: those stars, you know, like the nearest stars tens of

940
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: light years away or light years of way way and

941
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: the other side of the galaxies is thousands and thousands

942
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: of light years And that's true, and that means it

943
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: would take a long time to get there. But it's

944
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: been there for a long time. That's what I mean

945
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: that it's older than it is large.

946
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 4: But we also don't have any life forms that live

947
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 4: longer than We.

948
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: Don't have life forms that live hundreds of thousands of years. Sure,

949
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: but civilizations might, right, And that's another question, is like,

950
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: could it be the civilizations only let last for fifty

951
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: years before they get taken over by AI or kill

952
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: themselves in nuclear holocausts. That's certainly another possibility. That's bleak,

953
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: I mean, but you have to.

954
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 3: Find hopefully, hopefully the stars will align and mercury will

955
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: be in the right phase will survive.

956
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you are confronted with that fact, the fact

957
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: that the universe seems like it's filled with places for

958
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: life to flourish and it's not that big. So life,

959
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: if it had developed, might have found us already, but

960
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: it hasn't, And so you have to try to answer

961
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: that question, like why haven't we been just full on

962
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: contacted by alien visitors? But it certainly is true that

963
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: if aliens come to visit us rather than us finding them,

964
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: it's very likely that they're more technologically advanced than we are,

965
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: which means they might have the technology to stay hidden.

966
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: But you know, you have to wonder about the motives

967
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: they're like, why would they stay hidden? If I went

968
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: to another planet, if I found intelligent life on another planet,

969
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: I'd want to go talk to them, meet their scientists,

970
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: talk physics, you know, figure out what math they figured

971
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: out that we haven't. Why stay quiet?

972
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 3: So it kind of sounds like you're saying, Daniel, that

973
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: it is physically and mathematically likely that there are other

974
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: life forms out there, but it's it seems unlikely that

975
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 3: they would come visitors and be so kind of weird

976
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: and secretive about it, right, like that, Yeah, that would

977
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 3: have these beautiful signings without a big splash, or that

978
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: you know, we would see these small glimpses of them,

979
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: and that's it.

980
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that, of course, you know, makes some

981
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: assumptions about alien psychology, which certainly I'm not justifying to make.

982
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: But it seems unlikely to me that they would come

983
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: all this way, spend all that energy, and then just

984
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: sort of like, not engage, and that they would be

985
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: able to They would come all this way, not engage

986
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: and yet still be spotted. That seems sort of like

987
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: clumsy and immaturish in contrast with the amazing technology required

988
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: to get here, right.

989
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: You're like, it sounds like a bad plot point.

990
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 6: There's also the assumption that we would know how to

991
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 6: understand them.

992
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a whole other question, right, could we

993
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: even speak to them? Could we understand their language?

994
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 5: Maybe there are aliens that are here, we just don't

995
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 5: know how to understand them yet or see them because

996
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 5: they're maybe in a different visual plane. I just always

997
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 5: wonder maybe it's not them, it's.

998
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 3: Us, not you, it's me. That would be their answer, Yeah,

999
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 3: why did you want to talk to this? It's not you?

1000
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 1: Well, you know that touches on a whole different, fascinating question,

1001
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: which is could we even recognize alien life? It's possible

1002
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: we could land on another planet and there could be

1003
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 1: life going on, but it's just of a form that's

1004
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: so literally alien to us that we don't even recognize it.

1005
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: Because we're looking for life that's recognizable, because we've only

1006
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: ever seen life on Earth, and life could be you know,

1007
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: could take place on much longer time scales. You could

1008
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: have life that you know, where the beings last for

1009
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years and their metabolism is crazy slow,

1010
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: and so we don't even see them moving. Right, they're

1011
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: talking to us, but there they speak so slowly we

1012
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: only get a tiny little snippet of it. You know.

1013
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: It's we have to broaden our minds when we think

1014
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: about life in the universe because we've only ever seen

1015
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: this one example.

1016
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 4: Why is it I've always wanted to know that water

1017
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 4: is considered to be the crucial ingredient for all life.

1018
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 4: I mean, is it possible we'll look back on water

1019
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 4: as the astrology of twenty nineteen, And why are we

1020
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 4: so convinced that two hydrogen moe oxygen particle which supports

1021
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 4: our life, is crucial to all life throughout the whole galaxy.

1022
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question. And the only argument really

1023
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: is that all life we've ever seen relied on water.

1024
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: But again, that's only life on Earth, and so you're

1025
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: totally right. It could be that there's a completely different

1026
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: way for things to be alive and that doesn't require water,

1027
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: or that they can live in frozen water, or they

1028
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: can live in vapor or something like that. And so,

1029
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, one question is there is there earth like

1030
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: life out there? And that would be fascinating because it's

1031
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: more likely we could speak to them and learn physics

1032
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: from them. But another question is are there weird other

1033
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: forms of life? You know, is there life in the

1034
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 1: sun in currents of energy in the sun? Totally possible, right, so.

1035
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 6: People are living off of the sun.

1036
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: Essentially the sun could be alive for all we know.

1037
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 6: That's Australians.

1038
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 8: We know.

1039
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: I've often wondered if they are aliens. No to our

1040
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: Australian listeners, we love you.

1041
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 6: I feel like our questions have an answered.

1042
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: I'm curious, Kara and Oz, you sort of said that

1043
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 3: this idea of life and other planet really trips you up.

1044
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about why that

1045
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 3: trips you up and why you brought these questions to us.

1046
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 4: I think the question of life is very relevant to

1047
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 4: our Sleepwalkers podcast and AI because you know, people see

1048
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 4: autonomy in algorithms. They see an output, whether it's an

1049
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 4: AI making a song, or whether it's an AI making

1050
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 4: a diagnosis, or whether it's an AI doing a job

1051
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 4: that was previously done by human and the natural response,

1052
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 4: as we talked about, is to say okay, well, you know,

1053
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 4: to a signed personhood and say okay, that's life.

1054
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: But is it?

1055
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 4: I mean, it's such a big definitional question here what

1056
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 4: is life? And one of the questions we're going to

1057
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 4: look at in our final episode of the series is

1058
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 4: there a fundamental difference between carbon life US and silicon

1059
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: life computers. And if we do believe that such a

1060
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 4: thing as silicon life exists, well it doesn't require oxygen

1061
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 4: or water to exist. And so I think the question

1062
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 4: which has been haunting our podcast is what are we

1063
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 4: and how do we define ourselves? And as humans we've

1064
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 4: always you know, I'd like to define ourselves in opposition

1065
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 4: or in the absence of so you know, if you

1066
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: look at the history of theology in the you know,

1067
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 4: in the in the sixteenth century, God was a total

1068
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 4: explanation until you know, you had people who came to

1069
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 4: challenge the status go about the creation and the seven

1070
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 4: days and where the earth was flat, and so this

1071
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 4: concept of the God of the gaps emerged, where every

1072
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 4: phenomena that couldn't be explained was was attributed to God

1073
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 4: until the number of phenomena that couldn't be explained shranked

1074
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,839
Speaker 4: the number that you know, the God who was only

1075
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 4: responsible for those wasn't wasn't so much for God anymore.

1076
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 4: And so I think for me, the reason why we

1077
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 4: wanted to get your incredible insight today into into life

1078
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 4: on other planets is because it really starts to pull

1079
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 4: on the same strings that we're pulling on, which is,

1080
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 4: you know, what is life?

1081
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: And how do we define ourselves?

1082
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 4: And you know, this desire, this human quest to explore

1083
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 4: the universe or understand how AI works is you know,

1084
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 4: is constantly in search of a question I think, which

1085
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 4: often comes back to who we are.

1086
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: Do AI lives matter? Basically?

1087
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 5: Well that and also are our lives at risk? I

1088
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 5: think it's a lot of people's big question. Not at risk,

1089
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 5: but you know, will we be dominated in a certain sense.

1090
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 3: Some of us obsess about what life means here on Earth.

1091
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 3: Maybe there are there's clear evidence of life out there,

1092
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 3: or well, some of us obsessed about life out there.

1093
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 3: Maybe there is really interesting and amazing things redefining life

1094
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 3: right here in Earth right.

1095
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 5: I think it's always interesting to think about the way

1096
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 5: in which you know, alien invasion is depicted in films

1097
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 5: and in science fiction, I mean not always. I can't

1098
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 5: speak so so much on science fiction and literature, but

1099
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 5: the idea that it's somewhat sinister, I think is what's

1100
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 5: interesting to me.

1101
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 4: That we fear what we don't understand, especially when it

1102
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 4: resembles us in some way, right, which.

1103
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 6: It's the same with robots.

1104
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 5: I mean, if you look at truly again, going back

1105
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 5: to this, you know, the sort of Boston Dynamics examples.

1106
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 5: If you look at some of these robots that they're developing,

1107
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 5: it's uncanny. Not that they it's the uncanny valley. It's

1108
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 5: not so much as they look like human beings, but

1109
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 5: they look almost like dogs or almost like human beings.

1110
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 5: And that's what's really scary about it. Not that it's

1111
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 5: some robot version of a person. It's a robot that

1112
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 5: looks like what a person is supposed to be.

1113
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 1: And it makes you feel, right.

1114
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 4: It makes you feel This week, there's been there's been

1115
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 4: two stories, right, There's been the continuing interest in the

1116
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 4: UFOs and the navy hearings, and there's also been the

1117
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 4: methane emerging from Mars, and people don't care so much

1118
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 4: about the methane emerging from Mars because it's not human like,

1119
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 4: and even if it does signify life, it doesn't signify

1120
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 4: any kind of life that we can compute as similar

1121
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 4: to our own, whereas these things flying through the sky obviously,

1122
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 4: you know, bring to mind pilots.

1123
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: That's right. So for those of you who aren't aware

1124
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: about the mythane issue, people have found methane on the

1125
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 1: atmosphere of Mars, and that's usually a hallmark of microbial life.

1126
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 1: These little bugs are producing methane as they metabolize something,

1127
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: and it's convincing because methane doesn't last very long, and

1128
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: so if it's produced, it breaks down in the atmosphere,

1129
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: which means if you find it, it was recently made.

1130
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: And so people wonder if there's microbial life under the

1131
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: ground on Mars, and it raises another fascinating question about

1132
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: whether there's life elsewhere in the universe that we talked

1133
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: about once in this podcast, which is are we the aliens?

1134
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: Because there is one school of thought that says maybe

1135
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: life began on Mars and then came to Earth as

1136
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: microbes and then flourished. Right, we don't understand the process

1137
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: for how this began and it's certainly possible for rocks

1138
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: to get blasted off the surface of Mars and land

1139
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,439
Speaker 1: on Earth. So one not too crazy theory is that

1140
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 1: we are all Martians.

1141
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 5: Well that's the immigration debate, right, No, I mean it

1142
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 5: is when we talk about the United States.

1143
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: No wall, we'll protect us from Mars.

1144
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 3: All right, Maybe we should save that for the next podcast, right,

1145
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 3: But thank you so much Kara and Oz for joining

1146
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 3: us here today. I'm bringing your questions. So if people

1147
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 3: want to find your podcast, what do they.

1148
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 5: Search for Sleepwalker's podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you

1149
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 5: get your podcasts or the iHeartRadio app, or Instagram or

1150
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 5: Instagram Twitter.

1151
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 3: All right, well, thank you for joining us today and

1152
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 3: we look forward to hearing your podcast.

1153
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 6: Hi, thank you so much. That was interesting.

1154
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: Great to talk to you. If you still have a

1155
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: question after listening to all these explanations, please drop us

1156
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: a line. We'd love to hear from you. You can

1157
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Daniel and

1158
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: Jorge that's one word, or email us at Feedback at

1159
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: Danielandhorge dot com. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1160
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: and Jorge explain the universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1161
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1162
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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you

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