WEBVTT - S1: Ep 6 - The Third Floor 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:03.880 Hey, everyone, I want to let you know that we 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:06.840 talk about suicide in this episode. There are some links 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:17.160 to resources in the episode description if you need them. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.639 I loved everything about my life, and then I joined 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.920 this convent to follow God, thinking in my mind that 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.479 everyone was gonna love everyone and it was gonna be 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.839 double what I had at home, and it was completely different. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.120 I said, meet me up on the third floor, and 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.720 then she came up and I just was crying and saying, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:48.360 I just I can't do this anymore. So I sent 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.280 her can you. I don't know how to get out, 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:53.760 like how do I get out. 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.680 From a cocoa punch? And iHeartRadio. This is the Turning. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:06.839 I'm Erica Lance, Part six, the third Floor. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.919 I'm Sue Weber. Do you want like that little brief 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.160 bio blah blah or just the whole bio? Okay? So 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.360 I'm Sue Weber and who are you? I'm Joan Worcester 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.200 And how do you two know each other? We're sisters. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.560 So let me clarify. Joan and Sue are former sisters 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.680 with the Missionaries of Charity, but they're also sisters, like 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.600 actual real life sisters. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.800 And we're the same age for thirteen days. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.440 Joan and Sue live in Pennsylvania. They huddle over a 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.280 computer at Jones's house to video chat with me, squeezing 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:46.840 together so they can both fit in the frame. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:53.160 I'm I'm far more stubborn than you are. Wouldn't you say, Oh, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.320 you're pretty star. We're all stubborn. It's a family trade 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:58.960 in a posit way. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:01:59.960 Yeah. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.040 I don't take a lot of things personally at all. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:07.560 I'm more sensitive. Yeah, she's much more sensitive. You're super 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.240 protective too for people who get hurt. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.400 I seek for justice a lot. That's a commonality, and 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.280 I think that has to do with the convent. But 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.080 I've come to seek justice and truth in everything that 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.400 I do and say. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.320 Joan, the younger sister, has a certain gentleness. Sometimes she 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.320 goes for a while without saying anything. She just listens. 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.639 Joan says her intimate relationship with God drives everything she does. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:35.480 I was the type of person that was always trying 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.760 to please God, and then I realize that he loves 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.680 us unconditionally, and he loves us no matter where we 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:43.400 are in life. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.160 Sue, the older sister, is bold and open, short haircut, 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.280 big personality. Says it like it is. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:52.800 I'm out there, I'm like it up for anything. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.880 Joan and Sue both joined the MCS andi. Like every sister, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.239 they followed the vow of obedience. The vow commits sisters 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.919 to the power structure in the MCS You vow to 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.360 obey God. By obeying your superior promptly and without question, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.800 you become a pencil in God's hand, as Mother Teresa said, 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.240 or as a former sister put it, a tool without 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.280 will or opinion of your own. That didn't work for 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.320 Sue and Joan. Their story shows how power works in 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.360 the order who has power, what happens as a result, 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.760 and what happens when you push back on it. Sue 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.520 would grapple with this from above as a superior Joan 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:41.080 from below. Joan and Sue grew up in the nineteen 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.240 seventies in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, a small city in the middle 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:48.760 of Amish Country. They went to Catholic school. At the time, Joan, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:50.840 the younger sister, toyed with the idea of going to 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.160 college on a track scholarship. But she told me, in 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.800 my soul until I die, I know I was meant 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.240 to be a nun. So in nineteen eighty going to 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.640 Franciscan Order of Nuns. She was nineteen years old, but 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.760 something was missing. The Franciscans she was with took a 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.800 vow of poverty, but she didn't feel they took it 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.560 far enough. Life was too comfortable. And then she learned 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:13.680 more about Mother Teresa. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.440 I started reading some books about her and I'm like, oh, 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:17.280 my word, she has it. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.400 While Joan was thinking about switching to the Missionaries of Charity, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.520 Sue beat her to it. She joined the MCS herself. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.280 Sue was twenty and she says the life suited her, 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.320 especially helping the poor. When I asked her to tell 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.520 me about some of the moments she found beautiful, she 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:32.480 didn't know where to start. 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:39.920 Thousands, literally, there are thousands of incredible, incredible beauty working 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.960 among the poor, potentially making a difference in their lives. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.360 Six months in, Sue got some news. Her mistress told 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.080 her that Joan was joining the MCS. She was leaving 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.640 the Franciscans and coming to the same convent as Sue. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.840 The mistress cautioned Sue, remember no preferential love, even for family. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.960 When Joan joined, she learned the MCS had a different 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:05.279 approach for starters, no psychological test. The Franciscans required aspiring 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:06.320 nuns to take one. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.520 I actually think it's super important because I think what 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.039 happens is you're getting women who have mental issues, right. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.719 And mother would just say, just love the sisters no 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.560 matter what. But we had to live with. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.640 Them daily life was different too. The MCS were much 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.599 more regimented, and she noticed that the MCS didn't hug 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:23.960 each other. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:24.240 Well. 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.200 The Franciscans she'd been with hugged all the time. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.479 Nobody looks at anybody, nobody talks to anybody. It's grand silence. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.160 And Joan felt the MCS did poverty right. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:38.159 The poverty was, in my estimation, sensational, like everything we 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:45.560 owned fit in a bucket. I love the simplicity. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.560 Since Joan was new, it was nice to see a 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:50.360 familiar face. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.760 But my sister was rooted into the Missionaries of Charity 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.799 way of life, right, So when there was complete silence, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.599 you know, I'd walk by her and kind of wink 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.960 and do the things that I would do because I 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.200 was just beginning. I'd nod or smile, and you know, 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.479 she did do that when it was just her and I. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:09.520 But when she was in the group. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.159 She would pass me and not look at me, and 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:12.720 I'd be like. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.359 Oh, because I was following the rules. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:18.280 She was a good nun. 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.320 Oh, no, justin in the beginning. 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.520 A year later, though, when they'd both be in a 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.080 convent in San Francisco, they'd be more flexible. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.400 And then the vishit we did sneak off a lot 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:37.320 of times on the really third floor. On the third floor, well, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:41.080 my mom would send care packages, like of cookies, and 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.279 especially around the holidays. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.960 They had to turn any packages over to the superior. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.640 From there it was usually given to the poor or 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.080 shared with the whole convent. But sometimes Sue would say 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:53.159 to herself. 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.880 Oh, these are my favorites, these are Joan's favorites. So 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.200 then I would like hide them and then I would 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.039 see Joan in the I'd be like, meet me up 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.200 on the third floor. And then we would sit up 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.680 on these stacks of mattresses and eat the cookies. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.880 And enjoyed every moment, be worth any penance that. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.480 We never got caught. No we didn't. We're good. 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.120 You guys have both referred to penance, and I was 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.280 just wondering, when you say penance, are you thinking of 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.920 the discipline. Change that kind of thing. 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:33.520 You can go first, good, Okay, So I only share 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.440 with very intimate people, which is like my fellow sisters 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.440 who left. I don't know if Mom even knows that she. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:42.040 I think she does. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.360 She does, Okay, well she saw you change. It's a question, 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:46.960 she's true. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:47.760 Questions. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.360 So I didn't the bracelet. But here's the thing, and 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.920 I will make my full confession right here, right now, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.240 that I was not faithful to my penances because I 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:00.840 thought they were It's crazy. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.880 Joan's group of aspirants learned about the discipline a few 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:04.320 months in. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.240 So then they said, you can go to the bathroom. 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.720 But I go into this stall and I just I 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.160 couldn't do it. And I heard the sister next to me, 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.600 who was totally independences, and she was beating herself. I 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.360 could hear her. I'm thinking, dear God, i'd be yelling ow, 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.840 you know, And I thought, okay, I gotta do something 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.160 because they're probably listening to me as I'm listening to them. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.239 So I hit the sides of the walls of the toilet, 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.880 and I was just going, you know, hitting the sides 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.679 instead of hitting myself because I couldn't do it, and 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.120 then gradually I began to do it, and I then 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.480 didn't have problems with it, because I do believe that 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.040 if you do sacrifice yourself, I can gain grace with 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.000 myself and I can also help someone else's soul. I 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:49.480 believe that to this day. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:50.040 I believe that. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.160 Soon Joan took the discipline every day. Then she got 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.079 the spiked arm chain, which she wore during mass. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.440 So I put it on, and you're supposed to fold 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.079 your hands because then it digs into your arm, and 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.600 I felt Christ. I felt him as I've never felt 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:11.960 I mean, I felt him. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:18.080 I think the injustice came when rules were different for 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.600 different people. So for example, one of the rules was 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.680 you can't go home because we have to live a 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.120 life of poverty. But then a regional superior who really 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.520 liked another sister, she got to go home for her 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.840 parents funeral. Everybody's at the mercy of whoever has power. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.440 They become the voice of God for you. That's all 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.480 they keep saying. I'm the voice of God for you 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.920 at this moment, under your valive obedience, right, no matter 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.160 what it is, and they use God as the weapon. 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.440 Joan felt that weapon, and this is where her story 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.079 diverged from sus in New York. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.480 I got something in my stomach where I was really, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:09:59.040 really sick. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.560 She was in so much pain she had to crawl 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.600 down the stairs. Her mistress didn't offer support. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.480 I would go to her and said, I'm really sick, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.600 and she would say, just you know, give it to Jesus, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.240 offer it up, you'll be fine. 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.720 One day, a volunteer saw Joan and the condition she 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:15.319 was in. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.680 And she said, this little child needs to go to 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:18.240 the doctor. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.920 But Joan's mistress said no, it was the superior's decision 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.120 to make and the superior was away. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.679 So I just continued on every day crawling down the stairs. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.040 She'd maybe come down to church no matter what, whether 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.319 I was sick or not, I had to come in 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.520 to try to work, which I couldn't. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.520 When the volunteer came back, she decided to take charge. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.120 She said, sister, go get your shoes. You're going to die. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:44.880 You have to go. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.560 Joan found out she had pancreatitis. Left untreated, it can 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:49.679 be really serious. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.280 So that's how it started. 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.040 Joan stayed in the hospital for a week. When she 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.960 returned to the convent, she says something change with her mistress. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.720 She targeted Joan, and she was relentless. First she accused 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.640 Joan of being too friendly with a man, a seminarian 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.679 who had prayed with her while she was in the hospital. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.360 Then of trying to seduce the men coming into the 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:14.719 soup kitchen for meals. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.080 I was like shocked. I was shocked that she was 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.880 saying it. I'd never even thought it. I'm not going 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:25.160 after anyone. So she accused me of that and so 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:25.760 much more. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.800 Joan says it was impossible to please her, Like the 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.920 time her mistress told her to teach English to some 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.320 sistress from South America. Joan didn't know any Spanish. She says. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.560 She did her best to teach them, but every time 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.040 one of the sisters made a mistake in English, the 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:42.800 mistress made Joan do penance. 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.440 So I used to tell them to not speak. I said, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.600 can you please not just speak and save me from 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:49.559 my penances. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.000 Sometimes her mistress made her kneel in silence beside the 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:58.280 refectory table while everyone else ate and talked. These humiliations, 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.600 the accusations, the little dig they all piled up. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.200 She would tell me I wasn't holy, tell me I 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.400 was prideful. Tell me that Jesus knows you're a fake 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.599 and a phony, and all these kinds of things. She 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.160 would say to me, right, So. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:14.559 That must have been really hard to hear. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:16.079 It was very hard. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.720 Joan began to question her vocation. Is this really what 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.720 God wanted for her? After six months, she was sent 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.400 to a convent in Chicago for postulancy with a new mistress. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.680 I've thought I died and went to heaven. She was wonderful, beautiful. 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.640 Free from the belittling mistress in New York, Joe could 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.679 focus on the parts of religious life that fueled her 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.120 visiting shut ins, working at the soup kitchens and shelters. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.360 But then words spread that the mistress in New York 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.640 might be transferred to Chicago. Panic set in. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.679 One sister in my group she took an iron and 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.280 burnt her leg as penance. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.080 Penance so the mistress wouldn't be assigned to Chicago. 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.040 That's how much people did not like her. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.600 But the penance was in vain. The mistress transferred to Chicago, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.079 and Joan says she started right in again. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.600 She would call me in and she would scream at 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.720 me and tell me that I'm very irresponsible, and she 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.760 would yell at me and say, you're stupid. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.360 There were times when Joan had no idea what she'd 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.199 done wrong. She cried in the chapel and prayed, why. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.040 Is this happening? Why are you allowing this to happen 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:22.880 to me? I only wanted to come and serve you. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.120 I was angry and hurt and sad, and I was 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:27.760 all of those. 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.240 Finally, Joan spoke with her superior, the nun above her mistress. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.400 She tried to explain it all, but the superior told 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.200 Joan to forgive her mistress. 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.800 She said, can you try and love her? I said, okay, 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:41.320 I'll try. 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.720 But there was only so much Joan could take. She 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.319 was at a breaking point, so she turned to the 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:53.240 one person she thought could change things, Mother Teresa. When 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.160 Mother Teresa visited, Joan had a one on one meeting 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.160 with her. She says. She told Mother Teresa everything that 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:00.000 happened with her mistress. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.800 And I was crying and sobbing, and I said, I 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.000 don't I don't think Jesus wants to hear. Mother. I 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.600 don't know what to do, And she said, Sister Maria 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:12.240 Fatima be only all for Jesus. And of course in 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.640 my head, I'm thinking, really, that's all you got. That's 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.000 what you're going to tell me. You're not going to 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.280 take this evil woman away from me. You're not going 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.120 to stop this abuse. You're not going to do anything 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.240 about it. You're just going to let me continue to suffer. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.160 That's how I say no. I was thinking I'd say 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:28.840 a word. It's mother, Teresa. You know what I mean. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.480 I say a word. That's the difference between me and 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.280 my sister. My sister would have told her. I would not. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:36.760 I just skip quiet. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:38.240 I just accepted it. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.880 By now, Joan had been in the order for a year, 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.320 it was time to become a novice, which for her 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.200 meant to transfer to San Francisco, the same convent as Sue. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.160 Before she left, she had a meeting with her mistress. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.720 And she said, I know that I've been very very 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.080 hard on you. I wanted to break your spirit. I 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.400 wanted you to become humble because I know you're going 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.760 to be something great in this community. And I said 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.920 to her, and I'm going to tell you something. You 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.200 as a mistress have the power to make or break 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.960 a vocation, and you have broken mine and. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:23.080 You live with that. In California, Sue had no idea 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.080 what her younger sister was going through. Even now that 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.120 they were in the same convent, they couldn't really talk 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.920 about it. Joan hung on, but she was fragile. And 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.240 then she got a package from her mom. It was 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.040 full of family photos. 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.400 Pictures of our family reunion. And I think because I 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.200 was struggling so much there at that moment, that when 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.080 she sent those pictures, it was a trigger for me. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.520 So that day Joan found her big sister and told 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:47.520 her to go to their spot. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.520 I said, meet me up on the third floor. And 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.120 then she came up and I just was crying and saying, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:54.920 I just I can't do this anymore. 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.040 I know me too, because we're both going to be 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:01.760 crying right here. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.720 And so I said to her, can you I don't 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.320 know how to get out, Like, how do I get out? 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.600 You could tell that she was suffering, like you could 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.560 just physically tell she was suffering, and I was super 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:23.400 clear if she stayed, it would have been so massively unhealthy. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.240 And she said, the only way you can get out 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.560 is if you say that you can't live the celibate life, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.800 because every other way they would talk you into staying. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.440 So I went down to the sister and I said, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.000 I can't live the celibate life, like every time I 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:40.440 go on a tram car look at guys. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.520 It was all lies. It wasn't true. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.440 But I told her that, and she said, if you 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.880 would have said anything else, I would have asked you 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.200 to stay. But because you said you can't live the 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.520 celibate life, I understand that that's a gift from God. 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.880 And from there it was kind of quick, like call 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.320 your parents and I said to meet me and that 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.120 I was getting on this flight. And then it was 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:05.119 all like kinda quietly done, like hush, hush, go down 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.520 and get clothing. At this time, I was super skinny 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.800 and kind of sickly looking, but I put clothing on, 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.119 and I still felt that I was called. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:19.640 She truly felt called. And then there was no healthy 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.000 soil for that call to grow. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.160 The saddest part for me was that my soul didn't 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.439 want to leave because I loved the work and I 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:35.040 loved the prayer. I loved the whole life. But mentally 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:45.080 I was losing jone. And then I went into the 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.560 chapel and my name was sister Maria Fatima, and everybody 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:54.879 there was singing this Our Lady of Fatima's song, and 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.439 I was kneeling and I was crying. It was like 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.639 I was having an out of body experience. When I 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.280 walked out the door, I left my soul in the chapel. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.440 The very depth of my soul was still there because 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.240 I didn't really want to go, but my body was 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:11.120 taking me out. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.679 And it was so painful to watch. And then for 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.920 me the fear of like is that going to happen 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:20.159 to me? 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:20.919 Like? 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.280 Am I going to lose myself? 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.000 Even though Joan left, Sue stayed. She progressed through the 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.760 ranks of the order, took her first vows, took her 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.680 final vows, She became a superior, and she stayed in 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.159 the MC's for over a decade, working all over the 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.199 country in women's shelters and soup kitchens. Sue says her 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.520 outspoken nature helped and she knew how to navigate the system, 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.280 Like the time Mother Teresa visited the EMC house in 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.560 Baton Rouge, where Sue was running a summer camp. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.760 She'd be like, how's it going, And I basically lied, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.560 I basically said, oh, it's just really hard because I 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.920 knew she went transfer me. Wow. But if I would 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.040 have went in and said, oh I love it here, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.840 and I probably would have got transferred. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.199 You kind of learned the code to continue doing what 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.320 you wanted, because I've definitely heard from other people, you know, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.639 expressing a lot of enthusiasm for something and then getting 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.119 pulled off to that job, like, oh, she's enjoying that 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:31.720 too much. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.199 Yes, I think that happened a lot. And I'm super 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.440 intuitive in that way, so as soon as I know 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:39.520 the code, I'm in. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.520 Sue had been an EMC for about ten years. When 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.440 she became a superior, she was transferred to the MC 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.000 eight's hospice in San Francisco. It was a three story 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.800 wooden house. The sisters lived on the first floor. 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.199 So when I first got there, there were six of 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:02.120 us total, and there were three that I would say 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.000 could function and carry out duties well, and there were 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.400 three that were really struggling. 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.520 First, she had to learn to manage the house with 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.160 no training. So you kind of go in blind. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.840 You don't kind of go in blind. You go in blind. 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.199 Just pray and you'll get the grace to do what 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.520 needs to be done. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.040 So she relied on her intuition. In the hospice, it 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.400 was rewarding to care for these men with aides who 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:27.919 were dying. 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:33.439 Most of these men were rejected from their families. Like 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.080 when we tried to reach their families, they didn't want 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.359 anything to do with it. I mean that was the 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.360 early nineties. The stigma was still there. This one young man, Lamont, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.640 and he was young, beautiful, funny. We contacted his family. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.359 I mean at this time, he couldn't get up, he 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.960 couldn't sit up. I mean, he was completely bedridden. And 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.240 so I said to him, hey, I have a surprise 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.120 for you. Said what First, I just brought his mother 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.600 and he just burst into tears, and she burst into tears, 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.000 and then she came over and held him almost like 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.280 a child again. I got underneath him and held him 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.640