1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hey, fam, Hello Sunshine. 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, Award winning economist and New 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 2: York Times best selling author Emily Auster is here for 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: an all new segment. It's called mom Friend. We're talking 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: about mindful parenting, cutting through the noise and bringing the facts. 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: Emily brings research to the questions that we've been asking 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: for years, everything from can you have wine or sushi 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: during pregnancy to what the data says about screen time. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, July thirtieth. 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe and I'm Simone Boyce and this is 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 3: the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 3: we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: brighten near day. 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: So Simone, you know, I'm not a parent yet, but 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: I am very excited about today's guests, mostly because she's 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: freaking brilliant. 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 3: She's such a genius, and she is such a gift 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 3: to anyone who is a parent or is considering becoming 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 3: a parent. I can remember exactly when I came across 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 3: Emily Oster's work. Tell me I was nine months pregnant. 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: I was a reporter on the campaign trail when word 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 3: of this highly contagious virus began to spread and we 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: were in an information vacuum at the time. I'm normally 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 3: a pretty chill person, but I started to get really nervous. 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: I mean I can imagine why. 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, first baby, first time giving birth, obviously, first pandemic. 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 3: And I turned to Emily's research to help me understand, Okay, 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 3: what do I need to do to keep my baby 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: safe during this time? What kind of precautions do I 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 3: need to take? I mean, we all remember what it 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 3: was like then, we were washing our groceries, all that 32 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: crazy stuff. But since then, her research and her platform 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: parent data, they continue to add so much value to 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: my parenting. Like take sleep training for instance. I don't 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: know if this has made its way into your algorithm, 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 3: but there are all these accounts online, these mommy accounts 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: that love to parent. Shame anyone who decides to sleep 38 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 3: train their kids. You're gonna love this because this means 39 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: that you get your kids and yourself on a nightly 40 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 3: sleep schedule. 41 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a lot of my friends do this. 42 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's paramount during that time when you are so 43 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: sleep deprived. And also I just think I think it's 44 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: the best thing for your kids. It's the best thing 45 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: that you can do for them, and after doing my research, 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 3: my husband and I decided that this was going to 47 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: be the best plan for our family. And Emily's research 48 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: actually shows that all that parents shaming that takes place 49 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: around this topic is not founded at all, because sleep 50 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: training improves sleep for babies and parents without causing long 51 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: term harm to children. 52 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: What you're talking about is really taking a lot of 53 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: the guesswork away because I hear stories from my friends 54 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: who are parents all the time, and a lot of 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: the advice is anecdotal, it's behavioral, and Emily comes from data. 56 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 2: She's a numbers and data person because she's an economist 57 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: and she earned her PhD in economics from Harvard and 58 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: is now a professor of economics at Brown University. 59 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: And she's a sensation. 60 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: Online and I understand why she's bringing peace to people 61 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: during this constant barrage of parenting advice, and she's determining 62 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: what's fact from what's fiction. What I think is really 63 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: interesting is that her career path came from this personal 64 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: pain point that she had because when she was pregnant 65 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: with her first child, she felt really overwhelmed by all 66 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 2: of the information and the options that she was given. 67 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: So she decided to put on her researcher's hat and 68 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: began crunching the data to guide her decisions. 69 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: And thank god she did, because from that work came 70 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: her book Expecting Better, Why the conventional pregnancy wisdom is 71 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: wrong and what you really need to Know. And in 72 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 3: the pages of that book, she debunks all these long 73 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: standing myths about pregnancy to empower women while they're expecting. 74 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: That word is so key to feel empowered. You know. 75 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: I've heard some people refer to this book Danielle as 76 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: the Bible of modern parenting, because it is that comprehensive, 77 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: that thorough, that clarifying. I mean, she breaks it down 78 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 3: from trimester to trimester, from conception all the way to 79 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 3: labor and delivery. 80 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: She also sources data on fertility too. 81 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: I have a feeling everyone listening is going to want 82 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: more Emily even after our conversation, so I want to 83 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: share with you exactly how she supports families. She's the 84 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: founder and CEO of parent Data, which is a data 85 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: driven guide to pregnancy, parenting and beyond that includes a 86 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: weekly newsletter and a podcast. 87 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: Well, our new favorite mom friend is here. Let's bring 88 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 3: her in, y'all. Emily welcome to the bright Side. I 89 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: am so delighted to be here. Thanks for having me, Emily. 90 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: You are in Rhode Island, which I am so jealous about. 91 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 2: There is no summer better than a summer on the 92 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: East Coast. 93 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 4: It is true. We suffer. We suffer in the winter, 94 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 4: and then we get a couple of incredibly nice months 95 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 4: to go to the beach, so wonderful. 96 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: Well, today is about data driven parenthood, and that's a 97 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: term that is that actually new for me. Can you 98 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: explain data driven parenting and what does it mean to 99 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: be a data literate parent? 100 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 4: So my core belief is that we can make better 101 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 4: decisions in our pregnancy and parenting if we have evidence 102 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 4: and data that can inform them. And data comes from 103 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 4: studies typically, So I spend a lot of time in 104 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: the academic literature looking at what we learn from surveying 105 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 4: people or from doing experiments on people, and so a 106 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 4: lot of what I do is I try to provide 107 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 4: people with answers to the questions like can I have 108 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 4: sushi when I'm pregnant? What does the data say about that? 109 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 4: Or what does the data say about potty training? And 110 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: it's not so much that data is going to give 111 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 4: you the answer to your question. But for many things 112 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 4: it's either very relaxing or it will help you frame 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 4: how you might make the best decision for yourself. 114 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 3: So what I think is so interesting about what you do, 115 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: Emily is that most of the parenting advice out there 116 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: as a mom that I run up against is feelings focused. 117 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 3: It's all about centering emotion and the child's feelings, and 118 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: it's all very nebulous and abstract, and having the data 119 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: is so helpful and it's so grounding. So can you 120 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: talk about for a moment, why are numbers so important 121 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: in this conversation that so often skews into behavioral territory. 122 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 4: I think numbers are really important because they ground us 123 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 4: in something we can connect on. If we're not able 124 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 4: to say what we're trying to accomplish, or how could 125 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 4: you measure what you're trying to accomplish with a number, 126 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 4: I think it's very difficult to imagine making a decision. 127 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 4: So for me and I think for many of the 128 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 4: people that I think this approach resonates with a lot 129 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 4: of what resonates is being able to say, Okay, this 130 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: is the question I'm trying to answer here's what it 131 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 4: would mean to get the right answer, and here's the 132 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 4: piece of evidence that I need to answer that we 133 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: can like touch and connect on and be like, we 134 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 4: agree on this number being important, and let's figure out 135 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 4: what it is and let's use it in our decisions. 136 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 4: And that, I think is the key part. That it's 137 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 4: a concrete fact that disciplines the way that we approach 138 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 4: decision making. 139 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: So what do you do you, Emily Auster? Whenever you 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: run up against a parenting situation that you feel unprepared 141 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: to deal with, do you start thinking of that thesis 142 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 3: question first and then you go seek out the evidence? 143 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: How do you approach your parenting philosophy? 144 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 4: So my kids are pretty big, My kids are old, 145 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: and so one of the things about having old kids 146 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 4: is one encounters fewer problems, but when you encounter them, 147 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 4: they're very large. And so when something comes up that 148 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 4: we really need to engage with, it does require often 149 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 4: much more time. So usually I first I just panic 150 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: and say something I don't mean, and then later I say, well, 151 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 4: actually let's revisit that conversation. But it is I think 152 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 4: very amenable to this kind of more discipline and approach 153 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 4: to say Okay, what are we trying to decide. Let's 154 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 4: think about what's the question we're trying to answer, and 155 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 4: then let's think about what's the evidence, logistics, data, what 156 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 4: are the things we need to know to answer this question? 157 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: And then let's try to make a decision. 158 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 4: And with bigger kids, it's more like, let's make a 159 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 4: decision with together with the kid. With smaller kids, it's 160 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 4: more like, let's make a decision with your partner. But 161 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 4: in my own parenting, one of the things I try 162 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 4: very hard to do is, at least for large decisions, 163 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 4: make them very deliberately, So actually try to not make 164 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 4: decisions on the fly, but really think through carefully what 165 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: the right approach to the decision, and then how can 166 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 4: we make a decision we're happy with at least feel 167 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: like we have made the decision in the right way, 168 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 4: even if it turns out to be wrong, which sometimes 169 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: it does. 170 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: What does the data say about the generational divide in 171 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: terms of parenting approaches between boomers, gen X and millennials. 172 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 4: So there's something things that are very clear in the 173 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 4: data that have changed because evidence has changed. So sometimes 174 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 4: when I see people running into generational conflict around data, 175 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: it's like, literally what we know has changed. So, for example, 176 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 4: should you put your baby to sleep on their back? 177 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 4: This is something where people are always coming to me 178 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 4: and saying, oh, my mother in law says, you put 179 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 4: it to sleep on its stomach, it sleeps a lot better. Like, yeah, 180 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 4: but since you were a kid, we learned it's safest 181 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 4: to put your baby to sleep on the back, and 182 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 4: that's the new rule. 183 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: And your you know, input is not changing. That we're 184 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: done with that, you're just straight up wrong. 185 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 4: And then some of these things are places where maybe 186 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 4: we've gotten a little bit of data or a little 187 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 4: bit of a sense of something, but also just norms 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 4: have changed. So when we talk about discipline, it is 189 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 4: true that the presence of physical punishment has declined a 190 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: lot over time. Some of these kind of gentle parenting 191 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 4: strategies have risen. Some of that is for data reasons, 192 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 4: some of it it's not. So you can certainly see 193 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 4: in the data that change in the way people approach this. 194 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 4: And I think it's useful sometimes to separate out the 195 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 4: places where we learned more versus the places where we 196 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 4: just decided that one thing was better. 197 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: We're learning so much, but we have to take a 198 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: quick break. 199 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: We'll be right back, and we're back with economist Emily Oster. 200 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: I have a lot of friends who are struggling with 201 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: their parents and explaining why they're doing things differently. Do 202 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: you have any advice in that realm in terms of 203 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: effective ways to defend or explain a new approach to 204 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: the older generation. 205 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 4: I often tell people two things. One, your parents or 206 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 4: parents in law did raise you. So there's sometimes I think, 207 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 4: a moment to listen and to hear what they think 208 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 4: about how you could do things differently, And then there 209 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 4: is a moment to just say, thanks very much for 210 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 4: your input, this is how we're doing it. 211 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: And I think. 212 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: People feel often so strongly about explaining and so strongly 213 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 4: about like I've got to convince you that I'm right, 214 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 4: and sometimes you just have to let it go. My 215 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 4: mother in law, when I was pregnant with my daughter, 216 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 4: told me that she knew it was going to be 217 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 4: a girl. So before we knew about the jenner and 218 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 4: knew it was going to be a girl because the 219 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: heartbeat was fast. 220 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: And then I had pulled up this. 221 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 4: Paper hundreds of people which showed that there was no 222 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 4: correlation between heart rate and the baby's sex completely, like, 223 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 4: totally clear, obvious with tables. 224 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: Anybody could see it. 225 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 4: I explained it to her, it's my job to explain things, vinature, 226 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 4: not to be a girl. And she was like, see 227 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 4: I was right. And I was like, but here's this evidence, 228 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: and she was like, nah, I don't know. I just 229 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 4: think probably I was right, and like, I've never been 230 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 4: able to convince her. 231 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: I had to let it go. I had to let me. 232 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: Why would any mother in law go up against you? 233 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 5: Though? 234 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 4: No, she doesn't read, she doesn't read my I love 235 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 4: her very much, but she doesn't really think much of 236 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 4: She doesn't. 237 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: You know, Ah, you could be right, but I'm not 238 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: sure to that point. 239 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: What does the data say about mother in law daughter 240 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: in law relationships? 241 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: They're fraught, they are fraught. You don't need data. You 242 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: don't need data that's not really We get. 243 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: Plenty of anecdotal Here's the thing about being pregnant. Everyone 244 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: has an opinion about how you should be pregnant, what 245 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: you should do with the baby after it's here. And 246 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 3: in your books Expecting Better crib Sheet, the Family Firm, 247 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: The Unexpected, You explore parenting and pregnancy myths, and there 248 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: were so many that I turned to you for and 249 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: you helped me sort through a lot of my own questions. 250 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,599 Speaker 3: But one major area of ambiguity for a lot of 251 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 3: women is drinking during pregnancy and then also drinking during breastfeeding. 252 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: What does the data tell us about that? 253 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: Can you have that one glass of red during your 254 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: last trimester pumping dumping? 255 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: Sort it out for us? 256 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 4: All right, So let's start in pregnancy. So we know 257 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 4: that heavy drinking, especially early in pregnancy, is very damaging 258 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 4: and can cause birth defects and long term neurological problems. 259 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 4: The question people often come to me then with, though, 260 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 4: is like, what about having an occasional drink particularly later 261 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 4: in pregnancy? And when we look at data that focuses 262 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 4: on that level of drinking, and there's a lot of 263 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 4: this because it's much more common to having occasional alcoholic 264 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: beverage in Europe or Australia, and there's a lot of 265 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 4: data that comes from there. When we look at data 266 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 4: on that, we actually don't see those kind of negative outcomes. 267 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 4: We don't really see much of anything in terms of outcomes. 268 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 4: So this doesn't mean everybody should drink during pregnancy or 269 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 4: has to. Obviously, but if one is asking about an 270 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 4: occasional drink, particularly in the second and third trimesters, there 271 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 4: just isn't any data to suggest that that would cause 272 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 4: bad outcomes. 273 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: And then in terms of breastfeeding, and then in. 274 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 4: Terms of breast feed it's in some ways even more 275 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 4: encouraging because with breast milk, it's actually very easy to 276 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 4: test for how much alcohol is in the breast milk. Right, 277 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: So the only reason your baby would be exposed to 278 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 4: to alcohol is through the breast milk. So you could 279 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 4: have somebody drink a lot and then you could test 280 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 4: the alcohol content of their breast milk. So in studies 281 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 4: that do this, they would have women drink say four 282 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 4: tequila shots in an hour, which would definitely impair your 283 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 4: ability to parent and is not an encouraged amount of 284 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 4: drinking at all. But when you test the breast milk 285 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 4: after that level of drinking, it has the same alcohol 286 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 4: content as a glass. 287 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: Of orange juice. Basically wow. 288 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 4: So it just turns out this idea that breast milk 289 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 4: is an important source of alcohol is not true. So 290 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 4: people ask me, oh, I'm going to Cabo and I 291 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 4: want to have like one margarita, Absolutely have two MARGARINAE. 292 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: Four, you can have four tequila shots in an hour exactly. 293 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 4: Don't do that because you will feel terrible in the 294 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 4: morning and you will regret this nighting kavo. But from 295 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 4: the breast milk standpoint, it's okay. 296 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: Wow, that is wild. I feel like this is new data. 297 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 3: Even since I was breastfeeding, I didn't know that the 298 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 3: transferable alcohol was so small. 299 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 4: So if you think about it, it's about the same 300 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 4: concentration as in your bloodstream. If you really were like 301 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 4: I definitely am nervous about any idea that there would 302 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 4: be anything one drink two hours and then it's out 303 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 4: of your bloodstream. I sometimes people have this sense with 304 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 4: pumping and dumping, like it like builds up in the 305 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 4: breast milk and then you have to pump to get 306 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 4: it out. But that's not the way it works. You 307 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 4: don't store tequila in your boobs. 308 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: That was a myth that I heard, and I investigated 309 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 3: to the best of my ability and discerned that it. 310 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: Was not valid for my life. 311 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about screens, because this is a 312 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: huge part of the national conversation right now around parenting. 313 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: We're seeing so many schools starting to crack down on 314 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: banning cell phones in kid twelve classrooms. Florida, Indiana just 315 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: a couple of the states who have implemented some of 316 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: these measures. What does the data say about introducing screens 317 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: to kids even before we get to the classroom? What 318 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: is the day to say about the right time to 319 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: introduce screens to kids? 320 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 4: I want to totally change how we talk about this 321 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 4: because they think so much of the conversation around screens 322 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 4: adopts this idea that like, screens are bad and at 323 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 4: some point you'll be forced to introduce them. But every 324 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: moment that your kid spends in time on the screens 325 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 4: is basically a moment in which you're a bad parent, 326 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 4: and you're just like bad parenting it up. And I 327 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 4: would like parents instead to just think about time and 328 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 4: think about screens being something that is a part of 329 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 4: a balanced diet of time, and thinking when you use screens, 330 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 4: when you have your kids in front of screens, about 331 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 4: what else they would be doing with that time. Are 332 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 4: kids on screens ten hours a day and so they're 333 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 4: not really engaged with school, They're not really engaged with 334 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: their family. Is everyone watching screens at dinner instead of 335 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 4: talking to each other. We are screens getting in the 336 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 4: way of homework. Those are the kinds of things where 337 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 4: you say, like, that's not a good use of screens. 338 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 4: If your kids are watching forty five minutes of television 339 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 4: every night so you can cook dinner in peace and 340 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 4: then everyone can get together and be more relaxed, that 341 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 4: is a really good use of screens. If the alternative 342 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 4: is you screaming at them and not having any time 343 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 4: to yourself and not being able to parent, it is 344 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 4: clearly better to have them watch screens. So I would 345 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 4: just really encourage people to think about screens as not good, 346 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 4: not bad, not any particular way, but just something that 347 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 4: you incorporate in a way that balances with your families 348 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 4: overall life. 349 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: Emily, I could kiss you through the screen right now. 350 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 3: I just I think this perspective is so refreshing because 351 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 3: I beat myself up all the time when my kids 352 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 3: are watching TV. My oldest son, Logan, he's four years old. 353 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: He's obsessed with movies. I genuinely think he's going to 354 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: do something with movies day, but it's such a point 355 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 3: of contention because he always wants to watch it, and 356 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: we're always trying to moderate how much TV he gets. 357 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: And I am really committed to raising kids who are 358 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 3: outdoors more than they are hooked up to a screen 359 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 3: or they're reading more, Like that's very important to me. 360 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: But the amount of times I have beat myself up 361 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: and felt guilty over like my kid's screen time, this 362 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 3: was like a godsend for me, this whole conversation. 363 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 4: And people ask me things like is it okay for 364 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 4: my kid to watch television on the airplane? 365 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: Like what are you kidding? 366 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 4: The alternative is they're ruining everyone else's day, Like of course. 367 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 4: So I just think that is almost like we've gotten 368 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 4: into a place where it's not the conversation is not helpful, 369 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 4: and it's not helping people make good decisions. 370 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: It's just making people feel good. Yeah, but I will. 371 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 4: Say I would separate this, and I think in general 372 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 4: we should separate some of the screen stuff from the 373 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 4: question about phones in schools. Yeah, So I wish that 374 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 4: these conversations didn't get quite so mingled, because there is 375 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 4: a reason not to have phones in schools, which is 376 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 4: that they are distracting that it's just not a good 377 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: idea to have kids with effectively a handheld video game 378 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 4: when they're supposed to be doing math. 379 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Emily, can you share an example where the data 380 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: contradicted a widely accepted. 381 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: Parenting myth or traditional advice. 382 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 4: So there's a good example in pregnancy, which is about 383 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 4: bed rest. 384 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: So a lot bed rest. 385 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 4: Has been like a commonly prescribed both folk wisdom based 386 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 4: and medical based treatment for a lot of complications in 387 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 4: pregnancy with preterm labor or other things, more or less 388 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 4: just like why don't you just lay down and then 389 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 4: you know that'll fix it right up. And it turns 390 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 4: out in randomized trial data there's basically no complication for 391 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 4: which bed rest is actually helpful. 392 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 2: Huh. 393 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: Interesting, and it seems like it would be helpful. 394 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 4: I mean, this is what it's really tricky about anecdote 395 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 4: versus data, and why studies are so important. 396 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: Because if you have a bunch. 397 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 4: Of people who were in threatened preterm labor, you know, 398 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 4: they start having contractions at thirty three or thirty four weeks, 399 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 4: and you put them on bed rest, most of the 400 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 4: time they will go to term. Because most of the 401 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 4: time people who were in threatened pre term labor will 402 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 4: go to term. 403 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: But that would happen if they weren't on bed rest. 404 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 4: But if what's happening is you're just putting everyone on 405 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 4: bed rest, you kind of never learn that, Like, it 406 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 4: isn't the bed rest, it's just that's the baseline rate. 407 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 4: So when they do randomized trials, that's how you learn, Oh, 408 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 4: actually the group we didn't put on bed rest also 409 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 4: had the same outcomes, and then you can do better. 410 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: Still a lot of people are put on bed rest. 411 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a great example, Emily. 412 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: If you are chronically online like me, I am sure 413 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: that you come across parenting videos that just set you off, 414 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 3: and I'm sure you've got some hot takes locked and 415 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 3: loaded in there. This is your opportunity give us a 416 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 3: hot take something you've come across on social media recently 417 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 3: that you got to sound off on. 418 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 4: So I spend a lot of time talking to people 419 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 4: about daycare, and a lot of people send their kids 420 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 4: to daycare. And I will preface this by saying that 421 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 4: the evidence is quite clear that high quality daycare is 422 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 4: great for kids, and it does not lead them to 423 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 4: have terrible outcomes and turn into serial killers. And in fact, 424 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 4: the outcomes are very very similar for kids who go 425 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 4: to daycare. 426 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 2: Kids. 427 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 4: It's all very neutral, and I spend a lot of 428 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 4: time in my books talking about these data. 429 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: The other day, I saw a. 430 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 4: Reel on Instagram in which someone was interviewing someone else 431 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 4: and the person said, do you know what happens when 432 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 4: you dropped your baby at daycare? 433 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: They think you died? I just Lenny. 434 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 4: People sent me this like, oh my god, does my 435 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 4: baby think I got I was like, first of all, 436 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 4: how would you know? Okay, one of my friends was like, well, 437 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 4: when you come back, do they then think that you're resurrected? 438 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: Because that all so it seems kind of amazing. 439 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 4: But it was such a clear illustration of the way 440 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 4: we like hit people with these panics, like your baby 441 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: thinks you're dead. Every day they think you're dead because 442 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 4: of this selfish choice you made. It's like, there's no 443 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 4: evidence for that, there's no reason to think that, and 444 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 4: yet we're pushing this out on people, and you're just 445 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 4: opening up your Instagram trying to look at makeup ads 446 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: or watch Ballerina farm and then it's like here, that's 447 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 4: right there, your baby thinks you're dead. 448 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: This is why the world needs Emily Oster. It's like, see, 449 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: your baby doesn't think you're dead. 450 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 3: Wait, while I have you here in your brilliant brain, 451 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: I have so many parents in questions. I want to 452 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 3: ask you the whole toxic dies in children's food like popsicles, candy. 453 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm getting an eye roll. I like where this 454 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: is going. 455 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 3: Should we be as panicked about red dye in our 456 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 3: children's food red forting? 457 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah? 458 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 4: No, There's a lot of this evidence is in this 459 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 4: flavor of like coral versus causation. People are like, oh, 460 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 4: you know kids who there's more hyperactivity, kids who eat 461 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 4: a lot of foods with red dye. Well, also, all 462 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 4: the demographics of those families are really different, the diagnoses 463 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 4: rates are really different. 464 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: There's tons of things that are really different. 465 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 4: It's like a very classic place where seeing that people 466 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 4: who consume a lot of something are different, how do 467 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 4: you know it is that versus any of the other 468 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 4: differences across the groups. And we do not have any 469 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 4: direct evidence, in fact, some small amounts of direct evidence 470 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 4: that this does not matter. 471 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,239 Speaker 3: So no, okay, So we can't just keep all of 472 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: this delicious Emily Oster wisdom for ourselves. We've got to 473 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: broaden it out with questions from you, our listeners about 474 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 3: pregnancy and fertility. 475 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: Yep, that's what's coming up after the break. Stay with us. 476 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: We're back with economists and New York Times bestselling author 477 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: Emily Oster. So Emily, our bright Side besties have some 478 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 3: questions for you when it comes to pregnancy. 479 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: I'm ready. Here's our first question from a bright Side 480 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: bestie named Antonia. 481 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 6: Hi, I am thirty two and trying to get pregnant, 482 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 6: and i recently had a blighted ovum and I'm curious 483 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 6: how common they are and also if there's anything that 484 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 6: can be done to try to prevent having one again 485 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 6: in the future. 486 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 7: Thanks. 487 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: Can I just ask a question? Yes? What is a 488 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 1: blighted ovum? 489 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 4: A blighted ovum is a type of early miscarriage in 490 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 4: which there's an implantation but it doesn't develop into an embryo. 491 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: Got it. 492 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: It is a reasonably common issue and a reasonably common 493 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 4: cause of early miscarriage, and often you would not necessarily 494 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 4: know if an early miscarriage was because of this or 495 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 4: because of something else. 496 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: In general, we. 497 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 4: Talk about early first trimester miscarriage. It is very common, 498 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 4: much more common than many people think. Something like a 499 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 4: quarter of pregnancies will end in miscarriage. In the first trimester, 500 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 4: and fortunately most of those people will go on to 501 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 4: have healthy babies later, and having had one miscarriage does 502 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 4: not put you at much higher risk for later miscarriages. 503 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 4: If people have had two or more, it's good idea 504 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 4: to have more follow up on that, but for the 505 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 4: most part, there is very very good prognosis. 506 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: Here's another question from Natalia. 507 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 7: If you're thinking about delaying your motherhood, what age is 508 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 7: a good age to start thinking about freezing your eggs 509 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 7: and when is it potentially too late. 510 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 4: The answer to this is a general answer about how 511 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 4: fertility changes with age. 512 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: Our fertility is very high. 513 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 4: When we are teenagers, but mostly we're not ready for 514 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 4: other reasons to have a baby at that time, and 515 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 4: your fertility is declining to some extent throughout your entire 516 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 4: reproductive life, and it then declines more precipitously in your forties, 517 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 4: typically leading to menopause in the early fifties. So if 518 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 4: people ask it when is the optimal time to freeze eggs, 519 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 4: it's probably in your twenties when you are most likely 520 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 4: to have the most number of eggs that are healthy 521 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 4: and are normal genetically. As people age, their eggs are 522 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 4: more likely to pick up chromosomal issues, and so you're 523 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 4: less likely to have many eggs which could be fertilized. 524 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 4: But there's no point at which you'd say this is 525 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 4: a complete waste of time to do. We don't actually 526 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 4: know that much about egg freezing and how likely it 527 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 4: is to result in live births later. We just don't 528 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 4: have that much follow up. Egg freezing is a pretty 529 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 4: new technology. 530 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: I did it. 531 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 2: My doctor's office said the same thing, Emily, But that 532 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: under thirty five is really preferred. 533 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this under thirty five rule relates to 534 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 4: a kind of general idea that we have that like, 535 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 4: after thirty five you enter the realm of geriatric pregnancy 536 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 4: and begin to fall off some kind of old Lady cliff, 537 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: And that's not really well supported in the data. Fertility 538 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 4: doesn't tank at thirty five. You know, it's lower at 539 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 4: thirty five than at thirty four. It's lower at thirty 540 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 4: four than at thirty three. There's no sharp cliff at 541 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 4: thirty five. But many places will nevertheless adopt a kind 542 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 4: of thirty five cliff, not for super data based reasons. 543 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Our next question comes from janus Hi. 544 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 5: Emily, so I am just starting to learn about perimenopause, 545 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 5: and I wanted to ask what are the chances of 546 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 5: getting pregnant during perimenopause? 547 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 4: So first of all, I have to plug on parent data. 548 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 4: We have a newsletter written by an endocrinologist called hot 549 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 4: Flash which is all about perimenopause and menopause. So for 550 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 4: those of you like me who are in perimenopause, it 551 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 4: is very helpful. Fertility declines through your forties as it 552 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 4: keeps going, but it is possible to get pregnant during perimenopause. 553 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 4: Women continue to have avulatory cycles. Maybe not every cycle 554 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 4: is ovulatory, but about a quarter of women in their 555 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 4: last cycle, the last menstrual cycle before menopause, will have 556 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: an ovulatory cycle, which means that they could get pregnant 557 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 4: during that cycle. So it is less likely that you 558 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 4: will get pregnant during perimenopause, and particularly less likely that 559 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 4: you'll have a pregnancy that would carry to term, but 560 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 4: it is definitely still possible, which is why if you 561 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 4: do not want to get pregnant, you should be using 562 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 4: some form of birth control. 563 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 3: If you are sexually active. I have one quick question 564 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 3: follow up. As an economist and a statistician, I mean 565 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 3: you are assessing data all the time. I'm curious, when 566 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: you are surrounded by so much evidence, do you still 567 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 3: continue to form deeply held beliefs or do you hold 568 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: everything a bit more loosely. 569 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: Yes, it's an interesting question. 570 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 4: I think that because of understanding better how evidence evolves, 571 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 4: I am probably more comfortable with the idea that we 572 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 4: might change what we are thinking as more evidence comes in. 573 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 4: So there are things where I'm more convinced, say, like 574 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 4: I think the evidence for that is really strong for 575 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 4: this reason or that reason. But the idea that we 576 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 4: think something now, but later we might think something different 577 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 4: when new evidence comes in. 578 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: That's like the core of. 579 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 4: Being an academic, of doing science, and so I think 580 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 4: it's much easier to be in that mindset than if 581 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 4: you have this idea that like, some of these rules 582 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 4: or guidelines are stated by some authority which knows for 583 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 4: sure that they're true. 584 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 2: Do you find yourself parenting similar to how you were 585 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: parented in some ways? 586 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 7: Yeah? 587 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 4: I mean I think in some ways very similarly. And 588 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 4: then there are some things which I want to try 589 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 4: to do differently. But there are so many, like simple 590 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 4: things which I remember as a kid, my mom would 591 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 4: get this peanut butter, you know, the natural peanut butter. 592 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: That you have to like stir up. And I was like, 593 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get Jiff. 594 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 4: There was this commercial that was like choosy moms choose Jeff, 595 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 4: and I always wanted. 596 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: I was like, I want that, Like it's spread so nice. 597 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: You know. 598 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 4: There's like this commercial and it looks like peanuts and 599 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 4: then you spread it. And it was like, I have 600 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 4: such a vivi memory of being like, when I'm a parent, 601 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 4: we're gonna have Jeff. 602 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: And here I am with like the stir up natural 603 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: peanut butter. And it's like you ended up not being 604 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: a choosy mom. 605 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 4: I was not a choosy mom. Just like I'm just 606 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 4: like an old lady mom with natural peanut butter. 607 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: I love it. 608 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Emily Oster, We love your brain. Thank you so much 609 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: for talking with us. Thank you so much for having me. 610 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: Emily Asker is an award winning economist, Professor of economics 611 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 3: at Brown University, and New York Times bestselling author. Emily 612 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 3: is also the founder and CEO of parent Data, a 613 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 3: data driven guide to pregnancy, parenting, and beyond. 614 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: Emily will be back soon for another iteration of mom 615 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: Friend so if you have a parenting question that you'd 616 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: like her to answer, please send it to us at 617 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: Hello at the Brightside podcast dot com. 618 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. 619 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: Tomorrow, financial therapist Lindsey Bryan Podvin is here to talk 620 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: money and mental health for another iteration of Wellness Wednesday. 621 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 622 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 623 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boye. You can find me at Simone Voice 624 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok. 625 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's r O 626 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: b A. Y. See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on 627 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: the bright side.