WEBVTT - Ep. 43: Mark Kenyon 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.880 Hey, everybody, Welcome to another episode of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.040 I am Ben O'Brien, and this week I am in 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.880 the offices of the Meat Eater here in Boseman, Montana, 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:20.160 and I am joined by the great and powerful Mark 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.279 Kenyon of Wired Hunt. Now you're gonna know Mark as 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.400 a personality in our little Meat Eater family, which are 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.840 also going to know him from all of his wonderful 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:35.960 Wired Hunt media products. He's a white tailed dude, you know, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.839 self described white tail guy, and uh, I like him 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:43.400 for that because I grew up as a white tail 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.280 guy really on the eastern East Coast over there in Maryland, 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.239 and I can relate to a lot of things that 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.720 he loves to do. I love to do him too. Um. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.640 And so it's a great conversation around um our meat 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.920 Eater Christmas party, but it broke into some more serious 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.640 conversation around the imperfect because a bow hunting around some 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.920 of the imperfections around finding deer once you've hit them, 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.840 and then should you tag a deer or not if 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.080 you wounded it. A bunch of heavy topics, a bunch 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.800 of laughs, a bunch of fun stuff. That's Mark Kenyon 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:22.800 right now. Hey Mark Kenyon, Hey Ben O'Brien. We're just 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.120 talking about the amount of podcasts, Like how many podcasts 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.160 you feel like you've done both you've been involved in 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.880 but then also hosted. It's gotta be a lot of them, 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.320 a whole lot to under sixty years so Wired Hunt 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.319 sixty five or so of another series I did and 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.160 guests on a lot. You were like the you were 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:46.840 like the pioneer of one of the pioneers podcast. You 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.760 had to be one of the pioneers. Yeah, there's a 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.840 few others before me, but definitely I launched it, launched 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.440 the wire un podcast back in the spring of two 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.680 thousand and fourteen. Wow, Okay, who's around then? Was there 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.200 any other podcast around then? Because I certainly wouldn't listen 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.080 to podcast. You know, the first hunting podcast I ever 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.440 listened to was called bow Cast, I think, and I 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.480 listened that way back in two thousand nine. I don't 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.919 think that podcast lasted. I think it was around for 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:16.280 a little bit and then it was off the rator 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.200 by the time I started podcasting. Um, but I listened 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.600 to that one. Peterson's Bow Hunting had a podcast way 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.120 back in two thousand nine for a little bit too 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.960 that I listened to, but then that kind of faded away. Um, 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.160 so there's a couple that started early, and maybe it 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:30.640 was almost a situation where it was a little bit 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.200 too early for critical mass. Yeah, that that might that 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.160 might have been it, because I think Christian Burgh had 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.760 one that was that was the Peterson's. Yeah, way back 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.639 when I was was at Peterson and he is the 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.040 only person I knew that it had a podcast, and 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:50.360 I thought that's kind of a weird underground radio show. Yeah, 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.880 I mean it's a it's a great medium, and I 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:54.760 kind of got lucky in that when I dove into 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.440 his was kind of a perfect meeting of the right 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.760 time and the right kind of content. Yeah. Just uh, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.680 you know, uh, something or everybody should know is that 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.520 we were coming off the meat Eater Christmas party. So 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.520 if we sound signed a little sluggish to begin, you 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.000 know that we I mean there's a little bit of 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.000 booze there. It was a little bit of booze. So 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.400 I got a full cup of coffee in from of 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.280 me that I haven't got to dive into yet. Yeah, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.799 I feel free to just to I mean, people enjoy. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.440 I'm all, I don't drink coffee, So I'm drinking hot chocolate. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.799 That was really interesting me. But he told me a 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.440 few minutes ago that you never even tasted a sip 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.519 of coffee, not that I can remember. Now. I don't know, 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.760 you know, saying it, don't recording like that. I don't know. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.720 Maybe one time I did, but I don't remember. I 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.000 don't remember doing it. I've certainly never took an intentional 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:47.400 drink of coffee. Are you susceptible to peer pressure? No? 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.880 So if I were to tell your podcast audience that 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.600 we needed to all comment and message you and tweet 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.240 you enough, if that was, if there's a landslide of 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.800 of protests that been needed to try coffee, would you 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.840 give in for your listeners, for your beloved, for my people. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.440 I probably, I mean, like I said, I'm not I 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.240 don't necessarily I'm not a staunch, you know, anti coffee person. Yeah, 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:20.360 pro pro yes, I think that. Um, I would probably 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.640 try it, and then I would probably just you know, listen, people, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.839 it taste tastes terrible. You probably wouldn't like it. It doesn't. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.159 It doesn't taste good. It's not that tastes like a sock. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.200 I heard, you know. That's not a bad way to 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.559 describe it. But socks are inquired taste. Yeah, and listen, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.719 it's got it's got drugs bill into it that gets 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.920 you all addicted and next thing you know. So I 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.280 I um not against it. I have very many, many 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.120 friends and colleagues and family members who I think I'm 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.560 foolish for not for not doing it. But it more 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.640 power to you if you don't need be given to 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.799 the caffeine drug and you can still be productive and effective. 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.640 And I happy, dude, go for it. Yeah, I mean 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.640 I think I'm doing all right. He's like, I'm tired 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.760 a lot, like I probably get these little energy like 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.480 if I drank if I drank a five hour energy, 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:16.320 I would die, like if I immediately if I just 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.479 drank a fool one of those things like chugged one. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.919 I had a boss one time who would drink like 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.000 three or four of those things in a day, which 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.560 really covers all the day about four hours if you 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.560 drink four of them. And she would like three during 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.919 the workday, have three of those things. And uh, I 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.359 did try to sip of that one time and I 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.360 had almost had to go home, Like, yeah, that sounds dangerous. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.520 Drinking that many, and so that that was part of it. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.040 Like yeah, but I still you know, now we're getting 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.800 really deep, deep into my like what's going down in 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.880 my life? Which is all we want to know. That's 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.479 all it is. I eat a lot of sugar, So 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.200 I'm not I got I got. No. We had Janna 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.680 tell us his wife made this, like they call him 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.440 adult cookies. I don't know why not because they're calling them, yeah, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.200 because I think it takes so long to make them 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.680 that they don't want to have the children eat him 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.240 because they want to appreciate it. I would have thought 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:05.960 it was something else. That's what I was thinking. I'm like, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.279 let's go, let's get it done for these adults cookies. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.600 I've had some in Colorado exactly. But I wonder why 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.160 you're lingering that corner all night. You wonder why it 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.760 has a bit the chippies in the cookies. Um, I 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.920 must eating like a leven and these cookies that can't 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.800 be I mean, that's not good for you, probably not great. Um, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.159 but I'll yeah, I don't. I don't drink a whole town. 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.839 I don't. I don't smoke, I don't dip. I don't 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.440 drink coffee. But boy, like I'll rock a cake man, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:42.560 like half a cake. I don't even care. So listen, 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.440 I'm not without like I can't make fun of the 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.640 coffee drinkers for having advice, like because most people drink coffee, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.720 Like I can't get my morning started with a coffee man, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.560 And that's how you are with talcol cake. Yeah, like 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.800 I'll have I need my jool cake. Well, yeah, I 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.839 see you saw my truck this morning. It's full of 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.040 cake wrappers and yeah yeah, yeah yeah, like a nice 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.800 sparkling water, yeah they say that, right, yeah, well no, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:08.039 those were Pellegrinos greenos, like giant bottles are huge. I 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.160 thought you had giant bottles of open wine bottles, like 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:17.720 sparkling white wine. This guy's about it's Christmas season. No, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.040 I do like I do like a nice sparkling water. 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.040 That's good. I required that taste when I worked at 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.800 Yett and they had free Lacroix. That's one thing I 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.400 never got into. But I know a lot of people 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.840 like it. But that's like that, it's nice. This is 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.760 the plan for the whole podcast, right, it's just talking 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.840 about beverages consumption habits. Yes, that's actually got I have 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:41.440 a special announcement. That's we're changing the subject matter. Hunting 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.360 is getting a little bit old. Um, we feel like 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.520 we've done it all and we're just gonna yeah caffeine 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.440 and caffeine related beverages. But yeah, that the meat eater 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.600 Christmas parties every good time. Had a very good time. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.120 It was fantastic. It's cool, like we was telling me 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.360 a little a little earlier. Just cool to see this 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.360 whole group of people that to this point has largely 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.640 been scattered all across the country, everyone kind of doing 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.680 their own thing. Um. It was it was just an 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.760 idea six months ago in a lot of ways, um, 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.440 and now all of a sudden, we're here with a 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.720 whole group of people all together, working towards a common 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:20.920 cause and seeing that physically manifested that was. That was exciting. Yeah, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.200 we've talked about it before. I know, Like, but companies 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.120 are these imperfect you know, entities that that have all 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.360 these imperfections. And then a lot of times, um, we 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.920 focus on those imperfections because we're trying to fix them, right, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.400 and that's for good reason. But it's nights like last 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.800 night where you just in your people everybody's having fun, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.280 everybody's having a drink, and everybody's eating good food. We 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.840 had like fresh oysters and Dungeoness crabs and seeking Dear 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.400 Him and all kind of stuff, and um, it's fantastic. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.120 And and you kind of forget about those imperfections for 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:53.719 a while because you don't have to, like there's no 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.880 problems to solve any more. Um, not that you know this. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:58.760 It's not a bad thing. It's just how it is. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.320 But I needed its needed. Every once in a while 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.839 you need to just kind of like sit back and 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.360 and and the holiday seasons are good for that, but 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:11.360 like take stock and like what's really going on here? Um, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.920 and we get overstated for marketing purposes. But it's a 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.520 pretty pretty cool thing to be a part of. I 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.720 would say I would. I would say so too. Um yeah, 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.440 I don't know if I haven't even know. There wasn't 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.679 anybody who was like that guy at the Christmas party 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:28.120 I left pretty early. Yeah, but nobody, nobody. Uh, I 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:29.800 didn't see anyone who's going to be getting like a 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.160 terse email this morning or anything like dear sir. Yeah, 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:39.240 none of that appropriate behavior in the subject. That's good. Yeah, No, 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.400 we we had a white Christmas party, Christmas gift party. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.199 I think it's called a white elephant. Was that? What 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.480 is white? What I say white Christmas Christmas? Like white 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.679 white elephant is the white elephant Christmas? Yeah, white elephant. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.439 Whereas you get a gift and then you steal other 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.880 people a gift and steal them all that it's it's 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:02.400 very very ruthless. You got kind of yeah, you were 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.720 a frequent victim. Yeah. We had a deal, like at 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.520 the very start of the party, before the booze started flowing, 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.480 we had a deal where you would shoot the There 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.040 was a squirrel target on the back fence at our 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.760 CEO's house, and if you could hit it with the 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.280 twenty two, you got squirrel. And that squirrel we gave 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.760 you like special powers at the White Christmas Elephant gift 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:30.000 exchange that we helped and like I had a squirrel 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.760 because I hit this hit the thing with the two 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.600 and I was very confused about how to use the squirrel, 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:38.839 but it gave you like a power to like steal 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.719 at any time or whatever. I ended up with a 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:47.280 suite like a lever action NERF gun and had a 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.079 sheriff's badge with the sheriffs badge. I feel like was 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.600 the part that you liked the most. And I stole 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.199 this from a coworker and I put on the sheriff's 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.599 likely and I thought, well, I've got this, and like 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.000 I've got the squirrel, nobody can take this from me. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.480 I'm going to go ahead and like unpack the gift 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.839 and put on the sheriff's badge like like I was. Yeah, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.520 I think everybody noticed that I was. And there was 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:16.079 there apparently was an access of evil, like three people 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.200 in the corner that we're conspiring to take the person's 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.160 gift who seemed the most excited about what they had. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.439 Annie was very, very excited about ruining you. And we 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.600 need to call her. Annie Razor is our VP of production. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.520 She's really the magician behind me either TV and all 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.000 these fancy commercials you're seeing. But she at this moment 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.080 and Josh Prestin as well, and Brodie Henderson. I think 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.439 I can't remember the three, but they conspired to take 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.520 away my joy. Yeah, when they walked over and pulled 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.040 that sheriff's badge off you, you could see it in 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.679 your eyes, could like crestfallen. Several of us knows that, like, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.360 did you see Ben's a little sparkle? Do you see 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.199 that just a little bit of soul? Dead? Have that 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.120 little sparkle just just disappeared and you'll never You'll never 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.680 get it back. I'm sorry. Yeah, but I end up 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.480 with M and m's I don't know, with like a 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.920 yard long Eminem's good for the sugar guy, that's good 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.800 for me. Maybe that's probably better because I would definitely 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.320 shoot everyone around the office. You laid in bed undneath 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.240 the covers last night, slowly weeping and eating so many 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.040 of it. But yes, I mean those things devolved into 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.440 like you know, fun time, fun times, but they did 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.160 steal my joy. Um, so I'd like to call those 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:32.880 people out for there. I think it's good. And they 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.440 told me later. They came over and they said, well, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.400 you definitely conspired against you, only because I seem to 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:43.320 have the most joy man some people. But the world 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.400 is a tough place, smart Kenyon, I've noticed, Yeah, which 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.199 is why we need podcasts like this. Yeah, talk it through, Yes, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.720 otherwise I wouldn't you know? That just feels pretty cathartic. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.960 I feel a little better about my life. That's all 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:57.920 this podcast ever was for right, just to stroke your 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.760 ego and make you feel better. It's that's all it is. 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.000 I think I said that at the beginning, like this 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.800 is for me. I don't know, think I'm sorry about 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.800 if you don't like me talking about the Christmas party. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.240 I don't have ever done. That's all I ever done. 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.320 Word too. But yeah, yeah, you're the vet. I mean, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.240 there's no way to pivot from the Christmas party to 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.079 deer hunting, so we might as well just yeah, I 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.040 want how how do you make that transition? Just do it? 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.160 I don't know, I'm not sure, but I like, you know, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.120 I would say I said this when I had Ryan 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.280 Callahan on the podcast, that I felt like a good 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.920 segment might be like the ship that's bothering me? Not say, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.920 we don't have segments here on this program, but we 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.559 do have things that I like to talk about pretty 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.280 much every episode to annoy folks. But also so can 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.240 we call that a segment? Should I like to talk 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.880 about on pretty much every episode? Pretty much every episode? Yeah? 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.560 Sponsored by Mark Kenyon's, sponsored by Coming for That, Sponsored 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.200 by Black Rifle Coffee, which is it looks like it's 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.880 a nice company. I haven't friends, We have like a 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.120 big pile of it here in the for that last track, UM, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.760 I have a lot a lot of nice people work there. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.720 I just don't you know, I've never had their product. 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:11.280 Did they pay you for this promotion? They did? Chit chen. Um. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.679 There's some things in the white tail world that bothered 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.880 me now. But you know, for for point of fact, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.320 I am you know, I grew up a white tail hunter. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.720 I once wrote a white tail column for Peterson Sunny 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.560 Magazine and and um a white tail blog for an 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.920 RaSE American hunter. So growing you know, coming up in 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.800 the industry and growing up, I think the at some 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.280 level I was like, I'm gonna be a white tail guy, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.320 you know, like a white tail expert guy, um, or 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.520 at least somebody that wrote a lot about white tails. 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.600 M And you realized early on that was a path 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.440 for despots and the low i Q types like me. Yeah, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.240 it's a path for the caveman like you. No. I 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:56.120 just I think I just um ah hunted other things 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.800 that I could hunt everything. But I still think white 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.080 tails man. I would say that the best thing in 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.880 the world is sitting in a tree and in like 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:11.880 knowing every corner of an area where you're set of 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:18.000 stand and then finally hearing that like, yes, and it's 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:23.840 not a squirrel this time, because before it was. And 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.240 I have to try to explain it to my wife 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.560 a bunch of times around, like I can tell you 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.600 what a squirrel sounds like and what a deer sounds 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.960 like in a raccoon, and I can tell you abou 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.400 an armadillo sounds like from living in Texas. Um, but 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.600 there's I still feel like I've heard help bugle, I've hunted, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.320 go through all the things I've hunted, I've heard moose 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:49.880 doing their thing. Um. But man, that like is um 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:56.480 the pinnacle I believe, And it's the pinnacle enough in 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.080 a very different way from those other experiences you mentioned, 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.840 because those other experiences like an elk bugling or seeing 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.360 a gown a mountaintop, those things are are are quite intense, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.760 while the moments as a white tail hunter are are 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.560 punctual or there they are what they are because of 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.520 the lack of intensity. For so much of the time, 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.920 it's it's long stretches of monotony where hopefully you can 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.680 fall into an almost zend state where you're just taking 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.320 in the world around you and it's opportunity to to 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.360 kind of yeah, I do that every time in the 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.400 treesta and literally make that noise. Maybe that's why I'm 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.800 not seeing doing it too loud. They can hear the vibrations, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.120 but but you do kind of slip into like the 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.720 stream of consciousness of the woods. When you sit there 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.400 long enough and it quiets down, you're just kind of 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.000 part of it. And then though that is occasionally punctuated 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.080 by these moments of this adrenaline burst of something happening. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.200 And it's those those contrasts that make it really exciting, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.120 and in a very different way than an elkhin is exciting. 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.640 They're both really great, um in their own way. But 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.600 what hunting is, I just grew up spending so much 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.760 time and and you know like tall timber country that um, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.240 that's just that you know, that feeling you know, East Coast, 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:17.320 big tall oaks and you know like pretty you know 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.359 where we were, mountainous country, and so I just just 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:26.879 being in that setting, watching leaves falling out of the tree, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.879 the heightens, like said, the heightened sense of awareness of 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.440 you know, animals move birds. When the birds first start, 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.159 you know, they're usually the first to sound off, but 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.680 also things like when a squirrels chattering at you and 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.399 you're like, okay, well that's that's an announcement to everything 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.960 else around that what I've been up to. So yeah, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.160 I mean I think there is I have an appreciation 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.159 that because like signifies everything that, like the foundational elements 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.080 of my hunting life, you know, it signifies all these 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.840 like none of this other stuff would have happened if 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:05.280 it wasn't four before that. And so I'm um living 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:06.960 here though, I mean living in Montana, there's there's some 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.520 white tails around, but I'll never get the feeling of 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.120 like being in a tree stand in a large set 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.119 of timber, you know, leaves falling around me with with 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:25.400 you know, listening for that, it's more yeah, it squirrels, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.320 Like there's a certain cadence with you've got the front 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.160 step or the front leg in the back like coming 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.360 up and there's like bum bum bum bum. Yeah, that's 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.040 the rhythm that you here that you realize, yeah, yeah, 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.960 and that's in you know, there's a lot of stuff 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:44.960 that comes to mind, but that that ends up for 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:50.720 me being it's the pinnacle. It really just from it 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.600 kind of and I think about it I think, like, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.960 let's let's rewind the calendar a couple of months. I 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.879 can go do it right now. So I worry that 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.200 because you you prelided all this by saying that we 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.440 are entering the at the bother's bend segment, and so 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.080 I feel like you're really setting me up, like all 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.120 this stuff is so good. But no, no, I think 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.000 that I got a lot of ship that bothers me. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.720 I mean, I'm from the East Coast and I'm Irish, 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.000 Like this is pretty much that. This is all. That's all. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.880 That's all we have speaking of Christmas parties. Yeah, I mean, 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.240 drink and be bothered by things is just about all 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.480 that we do. Um, I'd love to be one of 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.919 those family unions. I feel like, yeah, it's just I mean, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.040 it's I got something I got. This is what grinds 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.000 my gears. She grinds my gears. Um, so sorry, I 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.040 didn't mean derail you know, no I did. I was 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:37.680 kind of setting you up a little bit there, Like 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.480 that's one of those compliments sandwiches. Well one with another compliment, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.159 I say, all this is a like part of my um, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.560 it's the self Estations podcast is because there are there 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.880 are some things. Loving deer hunting so much and having 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.360 worked around at some point in my career the North 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.280 American White Hole Crew, getting to note those folks and 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.760 working on their website a little bit, and getting to 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.320 know a Winkie over the years, getting to know John 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.200 Dudley over the years, getting to know some of the 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.960 best you know, Lee and Tiffany, getting to know some 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.879 of the best that do it, and seeing um the 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.480 way they expressed their deer hunting, and seeing some of 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.639 the changes really in the the deer hunting culture that 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.199 you have driven. A lot of which you have driven, UM, 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.760 there's still some things that like, there's still some wise 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.479 that I think um or worth talking about. Let's do it, okay. Uh. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:33.720 The first of them is around um, how like how 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.359 long do you leave a deer lay? I think in 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.160 the prevailing I came up watching like The Hunter Specialties 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.000 DVDs and Real Tree, Monster Bucks. I came up doing that, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.399 and I feel as though there's some things in the 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.200 culture like we're seeded there and it just remained um 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.680 just because that's that was the media that was available 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.600 at the time, and then that kind of got seated 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.199 into out their TV and just became like Paul Art 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.320 of the thing that you do right, You shoot a 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.040 deer and you leave it leg Now these are very 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.160 general statements, but in general, I feel like, no matter 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.680 if it's a big mature buck or it's I'm just 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:18.000 shot a dough or whatever the case is, I've still regardless, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.000 I'm still thinking meat first. And you know, once I've 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.560 got got a hole in the deer them, you know 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.480 I was targeting or or wanting to kill, and so 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.879 I'm still thinking meat first. So it comes down to 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.560 for me, like i've shot a deer, either have an 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.320