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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to another episode of The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I am Ben O'Brien, and this week I am in

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Speaker 1: the offices of the Meat Eater here in Boseman, Montana,

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Speaker 1: and I am joined by the great and powerful Mark

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Speaker 1: Kenyon of Wired Hunt. Now you're gonna know Mark as

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Speaker 1: a personality in our little Meat Eater family, which are

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Speaker 1: also going to know him from all of his wonderful

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Speaker 1: Wired Hunt media products. He's a white tailed dude, you know,

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Speaker 1: self described white tail guy, and uh, I like him

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Speaker 1: for that because I grew up as a white tail

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Speaker 1: guy really on the eastern East Coast over there in Maryland,

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Speaker 1: and I can relate to a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: he loves to do. I love to do him too. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so it's a great conversation around um our meat

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Speaker 1: Eater Christmas party, but it broke into some more serious

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Speaker 1: conversation around the imperfect because a bow hunting around some

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Speaker 1: of the imperfections around finding deer once you've hit them,

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Speaker 1: and then should you tag a deer or not if

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Speaker 1: you wounded it. A bunch of heavy topics, a bunch

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Speaker 1: of laughs, a bunch of fun stuff. That's Mark Kenyon

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Speaker 1: right now. Hey Mark Kenyon, Hey Ben O'Brien. We're just

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Speaker 1: talking about the amount of podcasts, Like how many podcasts

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Speaker 1: you feel like you've done both you've been involved in

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Speaker 1: but then also hosted. It's gotta be a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: a whole lot to under sixty years so Wired Hunt

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Speaker 1: sixty five or so of another series I did and

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Speaker 1: guests on a lot. You were like the you were

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Speaker 1: like the pioneer of one of the pioneers podcast. You

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Speaker 1: had to be one of the pioneers. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: few others before me, but definitely I launched it, launched

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Speaker 1: the wire un podcast back in the spring of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen. Wow, Okay, who's around then? Was there

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Speaker 1: any other podcast around then? Because I certainly wouldn't listen

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Speaker 1: to podcast. You know, the first hunting podcast I ever

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Speaker 1: listened to was called bow Cast, I think, and I

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Speaker 1: listened that way back in two thousand nine. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that podcast lasted. I think it was around for

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Speaker 1: a little bit and then it was off the rator

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Speaker 1: by the time I started podcasting. Um, but I listened

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Speaker 1: to that one. Peterson's Bow Hunting had a podcast way

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand nine for a little bit too

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Speaker 1: that I listened to, but then that kind of faded away. Um,

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Speaker 1: so there's a couple that started early, and maybe it

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Speaker 1: was almost a situation where it was a little bit

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Speaker 1: too early for critical mass. Yeah, that that might that

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Speaker 1: might have been it, because I think Christian Burgh had

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Speaker 1: one that was that was the Peterson's. Yeah, way back

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Speaker 1: when I was was at Peterson and he is the

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Speaker 1: only person I knew that it had a podcast, and

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Speaker 1: I thought that's kind of a weird underground radio show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a great medium, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of got lucky in that when I dove into

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Speaker 1: his was kind of a perfect meeting of the right

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Speaker 1: time and the right kind of content. Yeah. Just uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, something or everybody should know is that

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Speaker 1: we were coming off the meat Eater Christmas party. So

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Speaker 1: if we sound signed a little sluggish to begin, you

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Speaker 1: know that we I mean there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: booze there. It was a little bit of booze. So

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Speaker 1: I got a full cup of coffee in from of

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Speaker 1: me that I haven't got to dive into yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel free to just to I mean, people enjoy.

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Speaker 1: I'm all, I don't drink coffee, So I'm drinking hot chocolate.

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Speaker 1: That was really interesting me. But he told me a

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Speaker 1: few minutes ago that you never even tasted a sip

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Speaker 1: of coffee, not that I can remember. Now. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, saying it, don't recording like that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe one time I did, but I don't remember. I

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Speaker 1: don't remember doing it. I've certainly never took an intentional

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Speaker 1: drink of coffee. Are you susceptible to peer pressure? No?

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Speaker 1: So if I were to tell your podcast audience that

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Speaker 1: we needed to all comment and message you and tweet

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Speaker 1: you enough, if that was, if there's a landslide of

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Speaker 1: of protests that been needed to try coffee, would you

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Speaker 1: give in for your listeners, for your beloved, for my people.

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Speaker 1: I probably, I mean, like I said, I'm not I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily I'm not a staunch, you know, anti coffee person. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pro pro yes, I think that. Um, I would probably

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Speaker 1: try it, and then I would probably just you know, listen, people,

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Speaker 1: it taste tastes terrible. You probably wouldn't like it. It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't taste good. It's not that tastes like a sock.

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Speaker 1: I heard, you know. That's not a bad way to

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Speaker 1: describe it. But socks are inquired taste. Yeah, and listen,

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Speaker 1: it's got it's got drugs bill into it that gets

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Speaker 1: you all addicted and next thing you know. So I

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Speaker 1: I um not against it. I have very many, many

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Speaker 1: friends and colleagues and family members who I think I'm

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Speaker 1: foolish for not for not doing it. But it more

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Speaker 1: power to you if you don't need be given to

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Speaker 1: the caffeine drug and you can still be productive and effective.

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Speaker 1: And I happy, dude, go for it. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I think I'm doing all right. He's like, I'm tired

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Speaker 1: a lot, like I probably get these little energy like

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Speaker 1: if I drank if I drank a five hour energy,

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Speaker 1: I would die, like if I immediately if I just

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Speaker 1: drank a fool one of those things like chugged one.

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Speaker 1: I had a boss one time who would drink like

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Speaker 1: three or four of those things in a day, which

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Speaker 1: really covers all the day about four hours if you

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Speaker 1: drink four of them. And she would like three during

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Speaker 1: the workday, have three of those things. And uh, I

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Speaker 1: did try to sip of that one time and I

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Speaker 1: had almost had to go home, Like, yeah, that sounds dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Drinking that many, and so that that was part of it.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, but I still you know, now we're getting

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Speaker 1: really deep, deep into my like what's going down in

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Speaker 1: my life? Which is all we want to know. That's

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Speaker 1: all it is. I eat a lot of sugar, So

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Speaker 1: I'm not I got I got. No. We had Janna

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Speaker 1: tell us his wife made this, like they call him

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Speaker 1: adult cookies. I don't know why not because they're calling them, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think it takes so long to make them

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Speaker 1: that they don't want to have the children eat him

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Speaker 1: because they want to appreciate it. I would have thought

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Speaker 1: it was something else. That's what I was thinking. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: let's go, let's get it done for these adults cookies.

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Speaker 1: I've had some in Colorado exactly. But I wonder why

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Speaker 1: you're lingering that corner all night. You wonder why it

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Speaker 1: has a bit the chippies in the cookies. Um, I

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Speaker 1: must eating like a leven and these cookies that can't

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Speaker 1: be I mean, that's not good for you, probably not great. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I'll yeah, I don't. I don't drink a whole town.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't smoke, I don't dip. I don't

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Speaker 1: drink coffee. But boy, like I'll rock a cake man,

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Speaker 1: like half a cake. I don't even care. So listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm not without like I can't make fun of the

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Speaker 1: coffee drinkers for having advice, like because most people drink coffee,

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Speaker 1: Like I can't get my morning started with a coffee man,

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Speaker 1: And that's how you are with talcol cake. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: I'll have I need my jool cake. Well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: see you saw my truck this morning. It's full of

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Speaker 1: cake wrappers and yeah yeah, yeah yeah, like a nice

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Speaker 1: sparkling water, yeah they say that, right, yeah, well no,

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Speaker 1: those were Pellegrinos greenos, like giant bottles are huge. I

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Speaker 1: thought you had giant bottles of open wine bottles, like

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Speaker 1: sparkling white wine. This guy's about it's Christmas season. No,

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Speaker 1: I do like I do like a nice sparkling water.

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Speaker 1: That's good. I required that taste when I worked at

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Speaker 1: Yett and they had free Lacroix. That's one thing I

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Speaker 1: never got into. But I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: like it. But that's like that, it's nice. This is

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Speaker 1: the plan for the whole podcast, right, it's just talking

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Speaker 1: about beverages consumption habits. Yes, that's actually got I have

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Speaker 1: a special announcement. That's we're changing the subject matter. Hunting

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Speaker 1: is getting a little bit old. Um, we feel like

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Speaker 1: we've done it all and we're just gonna yeah caffeine

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Speaker 1: and caffeine related beverages. But yeah, that the meat eater

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Speaker 1: Christmas parties every good time. Had a very good time.

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Speaker 1: It was fantastic. It's cool, like we was telling me

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Speaker 1: a little a little earlier. Just cool to see this

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Speaker 1: whole group of people that to this point has largely

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Speaker 1: been scattered all across the country, everyone kind of doing

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Speaker 1: their own thing. Um. It was it was just an

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Speaker 1: idea six months ago in a lot of ways, um,

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Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden, we're here with a

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Speaker 1: whole group of people all together, working towards a common

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Speaker 1: cause and seeing that physically manifested that was. That was exciting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about it before. I know, Like, but companies

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Speaker 1: are these imperfect you know, entities that that have all

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Speaker 1: these imperfections. And then a lot of times, um, we

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Speaker 1: focus on those imperfections because we're trying to fix them, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's for good reason. But it's nights like last

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Speaker 1: night where you just in your people everybody's having fun,

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Speaker 1: everybody's having a drink, and everybody's eating good food. We

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Speaker 1: had like fresh oysters and Dungeoness crabs and seeking Dear

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Speaker 1: Him and all kind of stuff, and um, it's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: And and you kind of forget about those imperfections for

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Speaker 1: a while because you don't have to, like there's no

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Speaker 1: problems to solve any more. Um, not that you know this.

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Speaker 1: It's not a bad thing. It's just how it is.

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Speaker 1: But I needed its needed. Every once in a while

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Speaker 1: you need to just kind of like sit back and

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Speaker 1: and and the holiday seasons are good for that, but

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Speaker 1: like take stock and like what's really going on here? Um,

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Speaker 1: and we get overstated for marketing purposes. But it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty cool thing to be a part of. I

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Speaker 1: would say I would. I would say so too. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I haven't even know. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: anybody who was like that guy at the Christmas party

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Speaker 1: I left pretty early. Yeah, but nobody, nobody. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: didn't see anyone who's going to be getting like a

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Speaker 1: terse email this morning or anything like dear sir. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: none of that appropriate behavior in the subject. That's good. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: we we had a white Christmas party, Christmas gift party.

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Speaker 1: I think it's called a white elephant. Was that? What

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Speaker 1: is white? What I say white Christmas Christmas? Like white

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Speaker 1: white elephant is the white elephant Christmas? Yeah, white elephant.

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Speaker 1: Whereas you get a gift and then you steal other

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Speaker 1: people a gift and steal them all that it's it's

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Speaker 1: very very ruthless. You got kind of yeah, you were

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Speaker 1: a frequent victim. Yeah. We had a deal, like at

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Speaker 1: the very start of the party, before the booze started flowing,

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Speaker 1: we had a deal where you would shoot the There

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Speaker 1: was a squirrel target on the back fence at our

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Speaker 1: CEO's house, and if you could hit it with the

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Speaker 1: twenty two, you got squirrel. And that squirrel we gave

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Speaker 1: you like special powers at the White Christmas Elephant gift

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Speaker 1: exchange that we helped and like I had a squirrel

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Speaker 1: because I hit this hit the thing with the two

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Speaker 1: and I was very confused about how to use the squirrel,

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Speaker 1: but it gave you like a power to like steal

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Speaker 1: at any time or whatever. I ended up with a

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Speaker 1: suite like a lever action NERF gun and had a

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Speaker 1: sheriff's badge with the sheriffs badge. I feel like was

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Speaker 1: the part that you liked the most. And I stole

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Speaker 1: this from a coworker and I put on the sheriff's

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Speaker 1: likely and I thought, well, I've got this, and like

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Speaker 1: I've got the squirrel, nobody can take this from me.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and like unpack the gift

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Speaker 1: and put on the sheriff's badge like like I was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think everybody noticed that I was. And there was

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Speaker 1: there apparently was an access of evil, like three people

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Speaker 1: in the corner that we're conspiring to take the person's

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Speaker 1: gift who seemed the most excited about what they had.

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Speaker 1: Annie was very, very excited about ruining you. And we

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Speaker 1: need to call her. Annie Razor is our VP of production.

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Speaker 1: She's really the magician behind me either TV and all

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Speaker 1: these fancy commercials you're seeing. But she at this moment

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Speaker 1: and Josh Prestin as well, and Brodie Henderson. I think

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the three, but they conspired to take

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Speaker 1: away my joy. Yeah, when they walked over and pulled

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Speaker 1: that sheriff's badge off you, you could see it in

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Speaker 1: your eyes, could like crestfallen. Several of us knows that, like,

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Speaker 1: did you see Ben's a little sparkle? Do you see

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Speaker 1: that just a little bit of soul? Dead? Have that

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Speaker 1: little sparkle just just disappeared and you'll never You'll never

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Speaker 1: get it back. I'm sorry. Yeah, but I end up

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Speaker 1: with M and m's I don't know, with like a

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Speaker 1: yard long Eminem's good for the sugar guy, that's good

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Speaker 1: for me. Maybe that's probably better because I would definitely

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Speaker 1: shoot everyone around the office. You laid in bed undneath

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Speaker 1: the covers last night, slowly weeping and eating so many

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Speaker 1: of it. But yes, I mean those things devolved into

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Speaker 1: like you know, fun time, fun times, but they did

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Speaker 1: steal my joy. Um, so I'd like to call those

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Speaker 1: people out for there. I think it's good. And they

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Speaker 1: told me later. They came over and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: you definitely conspired against you, only because I seem to

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Speaker 1: have the most joy man some people. But the world

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Speaker 1: is a tough place, smart Kenyon, I've noticed, Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is why we need podcasts like this. Yeah, talk it through, Yes,

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Speaker 1: otherwise I wouldn't you know? That just feels pretty cathartic.

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Speaker 1: I feel a little better about my life. That's all

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Speaker 1: this podcast ever was for right, just to stroke your

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Speaker 1: ego and make you feel better. It's that's all it is.

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Speaker 1: I think I said that at the beginning, like this

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Speaker 1: is for me. I don't know, think I'm sorry about

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Speaker 1: if you don't like me talking about the Christmas party.

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Speaker 1: I don't have ever done. That's all I ever done.

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Speaker 1: Word too. But yeah, yeah, you're the vet. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's no way to pivot from the Christmas party to

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Speaker 1: deer hunting, so we might as well just yeah, I

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Speaker 1: want how how do you make that transition? Just do it?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not sure, but I like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would say I said this when I had Ryan

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Speaker 1: Callahan on the podcast, that I felt like a good

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Speaker 1: segment might be like the ship that's bothering me? Not say,

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Speaker 1: we don't have segments here on this program, but we

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Speaker 1: do have things that I like to talk about pretty

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Speaker 1: much every episode to annoy folks. But also so can

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Speaker 1: we call that a segment? Should I like to talk

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Speaker 1: about on pretty much every episode? Pretty much every episode? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Sponsored by Mark Kenyon's, sponsored by Coming for That, Sponsored

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Speaker 1: by Black Rifle Coffee, which is it looks like it's

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Speaker 1: a nice company. I haven't friends, We have like a

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Speaker 1: big pile of it here in the for that last track, UM,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot a lot of nice people work there.

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Speaker 1: I just don't you know, I've never had their product.

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Speaker 1: Did they pay you for this promotion? They did? Chit chen. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's some things in the white tail world that bothered

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Speaker 1: me now. But you know, for for point of fact,

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Speaker 1: I am you know, I grew up a white tail hunter.

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Speaker 1: I once wrote a white tail column for Peterson Sunny

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Speaker 1: Magazine and and um a white tail blog for an

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Speaker 1: RaSE American hunter. So growing you know, coming up in

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Speaker 1: the industry and growing up, I think the at some

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Speaker 1: level I was like, I'm gonna be a white tail guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a white tail expert guy, um, or

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Speaker 1: at least somebody that wrote a lot about white tails.

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Speaker 1: M And you realized early on that was a path

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Speaker 1: for despots and the low i Q types like me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a path for the caveman like you. No. I

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Speaker 1: just I think I just um ah hunted other things

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Speaker 1: that I could hunt everything. But I still think white

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Speaker 1: tails man. I would say that the best thing in

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Speaker 1: the world is sitting in a tree and in like

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Speaker 1: knowing every corner of an area where you're set of

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Speaker 1: stand and then finally hearing that like, yes, and it's

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Speaker 1: not a squirrel this time, because before it was. And

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Speaker 1: I have to try to explain it to my wife

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Speaker 1: a bunch of times around, like I can tell you

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Speaker 1: what a squirrel sounds like and what a deer sounds

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Speaker 1: like in a raccoon, and I can tell you abou

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Speaker 1: an armadillo sounds like from living in Texas. Um, but

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Speaker 1: there's I still feel like I've heard help bugle, I've hunted,

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Speaker 1: go through all the things I've hunted, I've heard moose

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Speaker 1: doing their thing. Um. But man, that like is um

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Speaker 1: the pinnacle I believe, And it's the pinnacle enough in

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Speaker 1: a very different way from those other experiences you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: because those other experiences like an elk bugling or seeing

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Speaker 1: a gown a mountaintop, those things are are are quite intense,

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Speaker 1: while the moments as a white tail hunter are are

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Speaker 1: punctual or there they are what they are because of

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Speaker 1: the lack of intensity. For so much of the time,

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Speaker 1: it's it's long stretches of monotony where hopefully you can

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Speaker 1: fall into an almost zend state where you're just taking

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Speaker 1: in the world around you and it's opportunity to to

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Speaker 1: kind of yeah, I do that every time in the

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Speaker 1: treesta and literally make that noise. Maybe that's why I'm

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Speaker 1: not seeing doing it too loud. They can hear the vibrations,

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Speaker 1: but but you do kind of slip into like the

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Speaker 1: stream of consciousness of the woods. When you sit there

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Speaker 1: long enough and it quiets down, you're just kind of

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Speaker 1: part of it. And then though that is occasionally punctuated

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Speaker 1: by these moments of this adrenaline burst of something happening.

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Speaker 1: And it's those those contrasts that make it really exciting,

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Speaker 1: and in a very different way than an elkhin is exciting.

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Speaker 1: They're both really great, um in their own way. But

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Speaker 1: what hunting is, I just grew up spending so much

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Speaker 1: time and and you know like tall timber country that um,

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Speaker 1: that's just that you know, that feeling you know, East Coast,

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Speaker 1: big tall oaks and you know like pretty you know

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Speaker 1: where we were, mountainous country, and so I just just

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Speaker 1: being in that setting, watching leaves falling out of the tree,

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Speaker 1: the heightens, like said, the heightened sense of awareness of

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Speaker 1: you know, animals move birds. When the birds first start,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're usually the first to sound off, but

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Speaker 1: also things like when a squirrels chattering at you and

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Speaker 1: you're like, okay, well that's that's an announcement to everything

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Speaker 1: else around that what I've been up to. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think there is I have an appreciation

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Speaker 1: that because like signifies everything that, like the foundational elements

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Speaker 1: of my hunting life, you know, it signifies all these

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Speaker 1: like none of this other stuff would have happened if

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Speaker 1: it wasn't four before that. And so I'm um living

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Speaker 1: here though, I mean living in Montana, there's there's some

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Speaker 1: white tails around, but I'll never get the feeling of

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Speaker 1: like being in a tree stand in a large set

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Speaker 1: of timber, you know, leaves falling around me with with

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Speaker 1: you know, listening for that, it's more yeah, it squirrels,

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Speaker 1: Like there's a certain cadence with you've got the front

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Speaker 1: step or the front leg in the back like coming

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Speaker 1: up and there's like bum bum bum bum. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the rhythm that you here that you realize, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's in you know, there's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: that comes to mind, but that that ends up for

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Speaker 1: me being it's the pinnacle. It really just from it

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Speaker 1: kind of and I think about it I think, like,

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Speaker 1: let's let's rewind the calendar a couple of months. I

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Speaker 1: can go do it right now. So I worry that

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Speaker 1: because you you prelided all this by saying that we

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Speaker 1: are entering the at the bother's bend segment, and so

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're really setting me up, like all

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Speaker 1: this stuff is so good. But no, no, I think

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Speaker 1: that I got a lot of ship that bothers me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm from the East Coast and I'm Irish,

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Speaker 1: Like this is pretty much that. This is all. That's all.

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Speaker 1: That's all we have speaking of Christmas parties. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: drink and be bothered by things is just about all

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Speaker 1: that we do. Um, I'd love to be one of

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Speaker 1: those family unions. I feel like, yeah, it's just I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's I got something I got. This is what grinds

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Speaker 1: my gears. She grinds my gears. Um, so sorry, I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean derail you know, no I did. I was

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Speaker 1: kind of setting you up a little bit there, Like

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Speaker 1: that's one of those compliments sandwiches. Well one with another compliment,

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Speaker 1: I say, all this is a like part of my um,

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Speaker 1: it's the self Estations podcast is because there are there

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Speaker 1: are some things. Loving deer hunting so much and having

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Speaker 1: worked around at some point in my career the North

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Speaker 1: American White Hole Crew, getting to note those folks and

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Speaker 1: working on their website a little bit, and getting to

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Speaker 1: know a Winkie over the years, getting to know John

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Speaker 1: Dudley over the years, getting to know some of the

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Speaker 1: best you know, Lee and Tiffany, getting to know some

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Speaker 1: of the best that do it, and seeing um the

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Speaker 1: way they expressed their deer hunting, and seeing some of

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Speaker 1: the changes really in the the deer hunting culture that

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Speaker 1: you have driven. A lot of which you have driven, UM,

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Speaker 1: there's still some things that like, there's still some wise

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Speaker 1: that I think um or worth talking about. Let's do it, okay. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The first of them is around um, how like how

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Speaker 1: long do you leave a deer lay? I think in

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Speaker 1: the prevailing I came up watching like The Hunter Specialties

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Speaker 1: DVDs and Real Tree, Monster Bucks. I came up doing that,

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Speaker 1: and I feel as though there's some things in the

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Speaker 1: culture like we're seeded there and it just remained um

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Speaker 1: just because that's that was the media that was available

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Speaker 1: at the time, and then that kind of got seated

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Speaker 1: into out their TV and just became like Paul Art

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Speaker 1: of the thing that you do right, You shoot a

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Speaker 1: deer and you leave it leg Now these are very

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Speaker 1: general statements, but in general, I feel like, no matter

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Speaker 1: if it's a big mature buck or it's I'm just

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Speaker 1: shot a dough or whatever the case is, I've still regardless,

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Speaker 1: I'm still thinking meat first. And you know, once I've

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Speaker 1: got got a hole in the deer them, you know

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Speaker 1: I was targeting or or wanting to kill, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm still thinking meat first. So it comes down to

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Speaker 1: for me, like i've shot a deer, either have an

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Speaker 1: idea where the hit is. You know, we're talking archery

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Speaker 1: here probably, but rifle as well, rifle less. So, but

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Speaker 1: I have an idea where the hit is. I feel

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Speaker 1: like it was a good shot. Um, A lot of

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Speaker 1: folks don't film, you know, don't have film of every

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Speaker 1: deer they've shot, so you can't go back and look

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Speaker 1: at the video tape. A lot of times, like you know,

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Speaker 1: your mind is moving so fast and you're you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of this is reflex and instinct and in

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Speaker 1: arch read in these close quarter situations, you think you

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Speaker 1: hit him, well, you're not sure the blood you know, here.

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Speaker 1: Another point of this is like what kind of how

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Speaker 1: to read blood and how to understand how to track

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Speaker 1: an animal that guys culturally are pushed to leave a

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Speaker 1: deer lay overnight or for eight hours or the the

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Speaker 1: Would you agree that the the prevailing thought is the

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Speaker 1: longer you leave it lay, the better the chance of

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Speaker 1: recovering the deer. I would say not entirely, But there

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Speaker 1: are certainly situations where a common belief is better safe

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Speaker 1: and sorry a lot of times, and I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: that's warranted, sometimes not. And I can expand on it

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Speaker 1: if you want, please, So I get what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Your issue is that too many people are letting these

424
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: deer lay because they just want to make sure they

425
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: get that buck or whatever, not taking two count the

426
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: fact that they're letting something away for eight hours and

427
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: it's hot out and when they get that the meat

428
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: soured and they don't recover that meat. Yeah, and or

429
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: um cootes come into play. So that is certainly a

430
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: risk in waiting to track a deer in certain situations.

431
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: I would argue that there are some situations where if

432
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: you feel very confident with where you saw that shot placement,

433
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: if you saw you were were able to check the

434
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: shot site of impact and saw this type of blood

435
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: at the at the site, there's certain indicators that will

436
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: tell you, you know what this is a this is

437
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: a dead deer, Like this is this is a deer

438
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: that was hit double lunged. Um, we've got great lung blood.

439
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: That's kind of thing where there's just there's simply no

440
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: need to wait that long, wait an hour, two hours max.

441
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Something like that. Um, your your meat is not gonna

442
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: go bad in that shorter time frame, assuming it's not

443
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: a twenty degrees or something. Um, in that kind of situation,

444
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: give it just a little bit of time. Because there

445
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: are situations where like a single a single long hit deer, Um,

446
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: that might look like a great shot if it just

447
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: if if the angles a little bit off and you

448
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: just get one long, that deer can can go a

449
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: little bit longer than you'd want it to. So the

450
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: situations where you don't I would never say, go out

451
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: there five minutes later, go bouncing right now, yeah, nor

452
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: would I mean, I think you have to understand a

453
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: lot of things, right. You have to understand how far

454
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: can a deer go with a double up right? In

455
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: generally a hundred yards is what. Yeah, I would say

456
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: if I had ballpark it most of the time. Yeah.

457
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: So I think this comes down to though. That takes

458
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: a level of understanding of where you saw that arrow

459
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: or bullet hit, what the sign looks like, what the

460
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: situation was, and knowing, um, what the right next step

461
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: is based off of that. And I think there might

462
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: be a lot of people who see people on TV

463
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let it lay, gonna let it lay. You

464
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: see that ton on TV and wait overnight and waitever

465
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: night and whatever night, and a lot of people I

466
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: think maybe just start assuming or do that no matter what.

467
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: And so I would say in the situation, I just

468
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: outlined where it's that kind of hey, this buck is

469
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: here within a hundred yards, barring some kind of crazy,

470
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: um shocking surprise. In that kind of situation, it does

471
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: not make sense to to risk anything with that meat,

472
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: especially if it's a warm days. Need you need to

473
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: take temperature into account. So if it's a hot day,

474
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: I'm moving all my time frames up because yes, there

475
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 1: would be nothing more devastating to me than walking up

476
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: on a deer that I killed and not being able

477
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: to recover that meat. Except for having the hind end

478
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: gun that is accept the one alternative. There's one thing

479
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: that is more devastating to me than that, which is

480
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: knowing that it hit a deer and knowing that deer

481
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: is probably going to die because of where that shot was,

482
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: but not recovering it at all, Which is why I

483
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: still believe that there are some situations where it is

484
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: right to wait, because it is better to recover a

485
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: deer that's missing behind quarter or maybe a little bit

486
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: of his his salard. It's better to make that recovery.

487
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: It's not ideal, it's not what you want, but it's

488
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: better to get that recovery than no recovery at all. Yeah,

489
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: you're understand right, I mean, and I don't UM when

490
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: I say this bothers me. I think it bothers me

491
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: for the reasons you outlined around UM just depth of

492
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: thought around these types of things. And let's not fall

493
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: back on some prevailing the idea that leaving it lay

494
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: is the right thing to do because you're being cautious

495
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: and you're trying to recover that deer in um in

496
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: the first place, that's the goal. You hit a deer,

497
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: you need to recover it. And so you know, having

498
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: a having a bigger conversation around the balancing act that

499
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: occurs there. And I think you said a lot of

500
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: what I think about what you have to as a

501
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: deer hunter have to understand, right. You have to understand

502
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: shot placement, shot angle, You have to understand the effectiveness

503
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: of different types of shots. You have to understand. Then

504
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: once you determine that, then the next step is determined. Okay,

505
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: what's the temperature, right? What's the variabilities here? What's the temperature?

506
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: What the levels of predation? Predation in this air? Where?

507
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: Did what direction did this dear run? Did he run downhill?

508
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: Did he run uphill? Is there a dry creek bed here?

509
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: Is there a ravine he might is there a thick

510
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: spot where he I know he might go. There's a

511
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: ton of variables here. So but I think understanding that right,

512
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: and so then you have you set that stage, paint

513
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: that picture like, Okay, I hit him hard. I know

514
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: I hit him hard. Hit him in a good spot,

515
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: likely one long but probably too he ran downhill? You're like,

516
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: what you know? His his front end was, you know,

517
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: looking wobbly as he went downhill? Probably better way to

518
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: say that, but that's that's what you're looking for. Yeah,

519
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: go get that buck. Yeah, he ran downhill right, Well,

520
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: he ran uphill, stood for a while and chased a

521
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: dough off. Then I'm thinking, I don't know, um, but

522
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty warm, and we've seen a lot of coyotes today,

523
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: and he ran into a place where he's probably just

524
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: gonna stay right, So I'm thinking, okay out. I don't

525
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: want to leave him lay over night in this scenario,

526
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: but man, I've seen on TV like guys just leave

527
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: lay over night and and I gotta recover him. I'll

528
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: get get the antlers and maybe get the backstraps. But

529
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: at this stage, I'm sure I'm not going to get

530
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: I think I hit him good, but I'm sure I'm

531
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: not gonna get the meat. At this point where I'm

532
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: not gonna get all the meat. My philosophy there is

533
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: just like I'm gonna find a way to determine where

534
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: this tears at um. And then you have the other

535
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: scenario where he runs close to a neighboring property, or

536
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: he runs to a place where you're not if you

537
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: push him, you push him on the public land, or

538
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: push him into a place where he's gonna get whacked. Um,

539
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: so I have for sure been I've been in a

540
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: lot of these situations. You surely have as well. So

541
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: um comes back to nuance. You gotta you gotta in in.

542
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: There's some folks that are just getting to this that

543
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: just haven't had the opportunity to have those experiences and

544
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: learn yet. And that scenario, I would just caution people

545
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: to not just see something on TV and say that's

546
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: what's supposed to do. How to dive into it. There's

547
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: a lot of great resources out there that that can

548
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: walk you through what different colors of blood indicate. As

549
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: far as shot impact, there's different resources that you can

550
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: look at that will talk you through. Okay, if you

551
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: see the arrow hit here, this is likely with the

552
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: vitals that hit, this is likely. How much time you

553
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: we would recommend you wait. Well, the Deer and Deer

554
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: Hunting used to do like three D renderings of a

555
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: app Yeah that show like show you exactly what vitals

556
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: it probably went through. I don't know if it's still around,

557
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: but it was a handy toolback on the day. Well,

558
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: and then you also had a you know, different types

559
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: of blood you can look you know, there's plenty of

560
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: resources around what that looks like. If it's got it's

561
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: bright red and has got bubbles in it, that's pretty

562
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: surely long blood. If it's a the darker the blood,

563
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: I mean you have dark like liver type blood, then

564
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: you have if you're finding any bile or any types

565
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: and chunks of greenys of green stuff, that's that's guts, Like, yeah,

566
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: there's there's that's that's the kind of scenario. If you

567
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: get a gut shot, pawn shot, that is the one

568
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: scenario where you're probably not gonna over that deer unless

569
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: you wait, because you're not gonna get a blood good

570
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: blood trail at all. But that deer, if you do,

571
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: let it lay down. And this is the the imperfect

572
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: part of deer hunting. Yeah, right, And we talked about

573
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: this sometimes that there's there are some scenarios where things

574
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: even if you did everything you possibly could have done right,

575
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: there are so many variables when it comes to any

576
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: kind of hunting, well it's deer hunting, elk hunting, cabra hunting,

577
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: there are variables outside of our control. Sometimes sometimes the

578
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: shot does not go just perfect and you get a

579
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: you get a gut shot for whatever reason. Something that happens.

580
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: That what happened then is water under the bridge. But

581
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: any time like this, this is what happened. It is

582
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: not what I want to happen, is that it is

583
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: a bad situation, but that is what happens. So how

584
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: do I make the very best out of this less

585
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: than ideal scenario? And in that case, let me let

586
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: me stop you there, because this is something that I've

587
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: wrestled with and I think I've come to this conclusion recently.

588
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: Just over UM. I had there was a scenario last

589
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: year or two years ago I had where somebody I

590
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: was hunting with shot of deer and we argued about

591
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: I said, go get at damn deer. Man. We've seen

592
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: six coyotes in this five days we've been hunting. This

593
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: is it was a big giant buck I mean it

594
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: was the buckets shot. I'm arguing that was it was

595
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: like a one lung through the liver, quartering two angle

596
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: shot that wasn't the best shot in the world, right

597
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: without the worst shot, not the worst shot in the world,

598
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: a lethal shot. Because I filmed it, so we had

599
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: filming went able to watch it. Um watched what the

600
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: deer did. The deer ran down into a dry creek

601
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: bed that kind of fingered off into two areas, and

602
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: the guy was hunting with who on the property knew

603
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: that this deer was likely going to get down in

604
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: that and run that dry creek bed until it ended.

605
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: And somebody somewhere in there like we kind of know

606
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: where this deer went to lay. And I'm and he's like, well,

607
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: we'll just leave it laver night. I'm like, if you

608
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: leave later night, you're you're losing the meat, Like you're

609
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: not getting it. It was cold enough for the meat

610
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: to be But those guys are gonna find it. They're there.

611
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw three kids within the hundred yards

612
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 1: where the deer is gonna end up, Like they're going

613
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: to find it and they're going to get chew on it. Um.

614
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: And it's also you know, partly shot in the guts,

615
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: shot in the vitals, but also in the guts, so

616
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: you know that thing is gonna be sour by the

617
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: time you get to it. I was like, I know

618
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: it's gonna die. I think it's gonna die in four

619
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: hours or five hours, it would be my guess, um.

620
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: And they shot at about eleven am. I'm so just

621
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: wait till three or four. Um, then you have a

622
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: hunter that's like not it wasn't necessarily in this case,

623
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: but some hunters like it's a hundred a inch buck,

624
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: I gotta get those anilers like like, well, I'd much

625
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: rather have that deer run to tim Buck two and

626
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: die over there and me never find him than me

627
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: find him and not be able to eat the meat. See,

628
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: that's where I would disagree with you, because you don't know,

629
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: you won't be eating any to meat if you wait. Now.

630
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: I would argue that in that situation, the US outline

631
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: where you think that that book is gonna die in

632
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: three or four hours or something like that, it's like

633
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: a very safe than Yeah, I'm all for I go.

634
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: I would go and get him. Then I would not.

635
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: I would not let a buck lay overnight unless I

636
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: absolutely thought that it was necessary. So the question come

637
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: becomes how safe is safe? Yeah, And that's that's a

638
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: that's a judgment called each person gotta make. But I

639
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: there as I like I told you, like, there's nothing

640
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: that would make me more sick. I'm very fortunate I've

641
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: not yet lost the meat from a deer here, because

642
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: that would just devastate me. I would feel I I

643
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: personally cannot justify killing an animal unless I'm eating it

644
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: from That's where I draw my line for myself. Um.

645
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if I shoot a deer

646
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: and I think it's a gut shot, and I know, man,

647
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: if I go in there right now, I'm bumping that

648
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: deer and I'm never going to find it, um, then

649
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: you have, in my opinion, that you have the way, because,

650
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: like I said, it's better to recover, better, recover some

651
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: portion of that animal then to completely go to waste.

652
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: But it is, it is. It's a shitty situation and

653
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: to be and you don't want to be in that situation.

654
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: You you're doing your best to make the right judgment

655
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: call yeah right or wrong? Right? I mean you're again

656
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: it comes back to the responsibility of a hunter. Um.

657
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: The last podcast I did with you know du Sean's Motana.

658
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: I saw him on the website. I'm not familiar with otherwise.

659
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: He's just a wonderful human. Um. But he grew up

660
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: in Czechoslovakia and they had this thing called I'll butcher

661
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: the pronunciation of it. But Micklovic and their culture means

662
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: like hunter. What it also means thinker. That means like

663
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: the way he describes that is like the hunter has

664
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: to be um, has to be the well, has to

665
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: be well studied, has to be well studied in the flora,

666
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: like they take classes before they can go hunting on

667
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: the flora and the faun on have to learn these things,

668
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: and like the respect for the hunter comes from the

669
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: depth of thought and knowledge of the outside world. And

670
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: the way he describes that as like, that's your responsibility

671
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: because you're selecting an animal. You have to know the

672
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: animal because you're I take it from the herd to

673
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: be taken and you're eating it, and then you're you

674
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: have to be efficient to find it and kill it

675
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: and then once you know, in this case, once you've

676
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: killed it, recover it. So I always think about that.

677
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: So at this you know, there's like a if this

678
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: was you know, teetering on, how do you all do

679
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: you push forward and find the deer or do you

680
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: let it lay? I don't think there's a clean answer.

681
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: I think what bothers me is that some hunters think

682
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: there's a clean answer there that's like always leave it

683
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: lay or fall back on any lay. So that's what

684
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: bothers me, there's a lot of hunters out there that

685
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: do it the right way. I think most people will

686
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: do their best job at it. But I think some

687
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: of the cultural, the just relevance of leave it lay

688
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: needs to be explored. And I think that's a good

689
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: I think it's a good point, and I do think

690
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: that it probably stems from media where there's not I

691
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: can't I can't claim to know the thought process for

692
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: the folks on TV saying this, but I would guess

693
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of people at a out a lot

694
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: of the thought process and just say, well, we're gonna

695
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: let it lay, be safe, And maybe there was some

696
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: serious thought in there and trying to find what their

697
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: right judgment was, um, and then the viewer just misses

698
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: out on that. So then it's just like thinking, well,

699
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: this is just what you do. You just always let

700
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: it lay. Or or maybe there is UM. Maybe there

701
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: are people who are knowingly saying, well, I don't really

702
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: care about the meat and I just want to get

703
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: those antlers. I hope that's not the case. I pray

704
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: that's not the case, but you know, there might be

705
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: some folks out there like that. Yeah, And I'm sure

706
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: you know it's hard. These conversations hard because you want

707
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: to generalize in any way, right, you just can't. It's

708
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: not fair to people to generalize anyway. UM. I'm sure

709
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: there are people out there that are like, I'd rather

710
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: like I either get the meat or the deer runs off.

711
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: I don't care. And there's people out there that say,

712
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: I don't care about the meat very much. If I

713
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: get something, great, If not, I'm not really worried about it.

714
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: As long as I get those antlers. That's what I'm

715
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: That's what I'm here to do. Um. So you know,

716
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: I think these complex issues always goes back to like

717
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: it'll be a you know, be a thinker and make

718
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: and you know, be the Mick lvic And I really

719
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, man, it's the hunter and thinkers should

720
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 1: be synonymous. Yeah. And so these are things that require thought.

721
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: And I think, UM, in the white tailed world, like

722
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: there has there's so much media out there, there's so

723
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: much noise out there about um, this big buck or

724
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: that big buck or that experience like this is one

725
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: of those things that just it requires lots of knowledge.

726
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: You know, you have it. I have some of it,

727
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: Like I've tried to you know, as a function of

728
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: my hunting. Learned these things, but it's worth three writing.

729
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: These aren't with it? You can't really do it without

730
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: these things. And I think it's there's nothing we do

731
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: in our entire lives. I think that. And it's interesting

732
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: because sometimes we grow up hunting and you just do

733
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: it because it's what you do and just because it's

734
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: what your dad or grandpa or whatever family member friend

735
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: did and as a kid, it was fun and you

736
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: used to it. And you know, myself, growing up, I

737
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: didn't really put a whole lot of thought into it.

738
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: I just knew I loved it. But as an adult

739
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: now and having had the tune to think on these

740
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: things a little bit more, I don't think there's anything

741
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: more deserving of thoughtfulness and critical thinking in our lives

742
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: and then hunting, because that's there's nothing more serious. There's

743
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: nothing we are taking a life. Can you name one

744
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: thing more serious than taking a life? So without a

745
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: doubt that action should be something that serious thoughtfulness should

746
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: be required. Yeah, yeah, that's how I like that, like

747
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 1: the cultural significance of that, and that's and that's again

748
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: it gets you know, we get real deep in this conversation,

749
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: but it gets back into like what is a hunter

750
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: traditionally in our society and our culture. I mean the hunter,

751
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: a hunter was a provider. A hunter was you know,

752
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: to be you know, really at you know, lack for

753
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: lack of a better term. And there's a pun that

754
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't like, but like at the top of the

755
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: food chain within a tribe, within a group of people,

756
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: the hunter was seen, um was was seen with great significance.

757
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: And I think, UM, I find our culture to be

758
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: a little bit loose when it comes to that. Deer

759
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: hunting cultures is the prevailing culture within the hunting world.

760
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: More people go deer hunting than do anything else, by far, UM,

761
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: and there's more dear than any other you know, game animal.

762
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: America's big game animal by far. So there's a lot

763
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: of influence that goes into that. So that's one that's

764
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: one that UM, I think spends into another thing that

765
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: we've been talking about lately here in the office, and

766
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: you and I've talked about song is it just um

767
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: the wound rates and you know, the way you put

768
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: is like the imperfections of bow hunting right and some

769
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: of the difficulties around how we treat archery as as

770
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: a group and then the results UM and how and

771
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: how open we are about the results for fear of

772
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: for fear of UM, I would imagine for fear of attack, UM.

773
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: You know, what's your take me through? Like as as

774
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: somebody who hunts, you know, mainly with a bow, Like

775
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: your thought processes when you're talking about archery on your

776
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: podcast or when you're trying to get people into two

777
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: hunting and lead them into hunting and say pick up

778
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: a bow first, you know that's what you ought to do, Like,

779
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: what are you what are you thinking about that? Well?

780
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if I wouldn't necessarily recommend that, Yeah,

781
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: that probably wouldn't be what I was. If there's someone

782
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: new to hunting, that might not be my first option

783
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: I would, uh, I think rifle hunting or crossbow hunting

784
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: if that's the thing. UM is easier to perfect as

785
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: far as the effectiveness of the UM be able to

786
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: kill an animal like that, that process is simply easier

787
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: to to become competent at, I guess than shooting a

788
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: vertical ball, shooting compound ball or traditional ball. UM. So

789
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: for someone getting started, that's probably great way to start,

790
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: because there's a whole heck of a lot of things

791
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: you've got to figure out when you're figuring out how

792
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: to deer hunt. Um, it's nice to at least know

793
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: that your methodology for take is going to be as

794
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: relatively of assure things you can possibly get it. Um.

795
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: So that being said, I am right, it is. It's

796
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: clear then by way of me saying that using a

797
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: vertical compound bow is more difficult, it is less is

798
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: more difficult to become competent, it's more difficult to be consistent.

799
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: There's more room for error. Um, there's more room for

800
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: for things go bad, for imperfections. And this is where

801
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: this weird like dichotomy comes into play, because on one hand,

802
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: I would tell you that as a deer hunter, my

803
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: number one goal is to make as quick and clean

804
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: and ethical of a kill as I possibly can. If

805
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to take the life of an animal, I'm

806
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: gonna do so, um the best way I possibly can

807
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: to limit any kind of suffering to make sure I

808
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: recover that animal. I mean that that's I would say,

809
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: that's first and foremost. At the same time, though it

810
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: it might seem very hypocritical then to tell you that

811
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: I actively choose to use a compound bow for my hunting.

812
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: How do I how do I justify that? Yeah? And

813
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have a perfect answer to that,

814
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: but I can tell you that there is an experience,

815
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: um and and maybe this is inherently selfish. Maybe this

816
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: is something that we as as as bow hunter. Maybe

817
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a flawed, selfish human because I love to

818
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: bow hunt or I'd like to engage in hunting in

819
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: that way. But but but the experience I have as

820
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: a bow hunter is a very different experience than I

821
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: have as a gun hunter. And that experience, that way

822
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: of engaging with an animal, with the habitat, the skill

823
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: and time and effort and practice, the amount of work

824
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: that has to go into that to be successful, um

825
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: makes it um incredibly compelling, addicting interesting, forces me to

826
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: to become a more well rounded outdoorsman. But yes, it

827
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: does opening things up to the possibility of things not

828
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: going right. Um. And So so with that said, what

829
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: I find is that I simply have a greater obligation

830
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: if I If you're choosing to be a bow hunter

831
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: and you're choosing to engage with animals and wildlife and

832
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: stuff in this way, you just have a greater obligation

833
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: to work your tail off, to do as much as

834
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: you possibly can to become more perfect. You're never gonna

835
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: become perfect. A bow hunter can't be perfect. There will

836
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: always be perfect, yes, um So, mistakes will happen sometimes.

837
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: I mean it is tough. There are a lot of

838
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: things that can go wrong. Animals can move. Um So,

839
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: no one, even the very best archers out there, even

840
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: like John Dudley or someone, stuff is gonna go wrong

841
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: sometimes for these guys or girls. So I think the

842
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: obligation just becomes then for us as hunters bow owners

843
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: to do everything we possibly can to every day become

844
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: more perfect, get closer and closer and closer to minimizing

845
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: any kind of air and hopefully, um hopefully because of

846
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: how because of how uniquely engaging bow hunting is. This

847
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: is a hypothesis, I guess, but because of how deep

848
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: that interaction is that I think I think is unique

849
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: with bow hunting. I think I think you could dive deeper.

850
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: Not saying that you can't achieve some of these things

851
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: as a rife hunter, but if I were to generalize,

852
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: I'm over generalizing here, but I think via bow hunting,

853
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: it forces you to get deeper into this thing, deeper

854
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: into how you interact with these animals, understand these animals,

855
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: all those things. I hope and I think it fosters

856
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: a different level or a deeper level of care and

857
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: in a desire to give back and to to find

858
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: ways to make sure that we just don't take from

859
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: this resource, but we also we also give. UM And

860
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: I think maybe, I hope, maybe that is how bow

861
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: hunting um provides a net benefit. Let me just say that,

862
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does. Um.

863
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: And here's what happens. And my this is my and

864
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: my estimation, and I've done it in my life. Um.

865
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: And I will start by saying, I feel like I've

866
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: sometimes been peer pressured into bow hunting because that's it

867
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: was like a trendy thing to do. You got it's

868
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: like we got a dog fight in the office. Um.

869
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: I've been peer pressured into bow hunting because that's the

870
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: trendier thing to do, right, the cool kids seem to

871
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: be doing it. Um And nobody, I actually, no one's

872
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: thinking that because they're looking at me bo hunting. I

873
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, yeah, people know what we gotta

874
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: get into. What the guy said, I know, and also

875
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: the text that I sent you. Those are two things

876
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: with UM. But I think when it comes to this

877
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: relatively serious subject, I always fall back on. Hunting is

878
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: a very personal endeavor and in it in its nature

879
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: and it's modern sense, right, because we could go to

880
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: the store and get meat. Because there's other ways for

881
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: us to to UM take on take on the act

882
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: of conservation. Right, I could go help for the translocation

883
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: help UM go help pick up trash on public lands,

884
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: and be doing just as much for conservation air quotes

885
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: as UM I would if I will go out and

886
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: buy a license and shoot a deer. Right, So all

887
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: the things that we use as reasoning, like what you

888
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: were just doing there was a very like noble attempt

889
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: to talk around. Hey, look, this ship is selfish. It

890
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: is personal, UM. But it's selfish and personal because the

891
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: end result is this thing that it enriches you to

892
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: such an extent that it's appropriate. At the end of

893
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: the day. It fosters caring for animals, and it fosters

894
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: caring for the natural world. Like but at the end

895
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: of the day, it's a very selfish and personal endeavor. UM.

896
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: And I guess we do need to own that and

897
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: just own that. If you start from that owning, then

898
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: you can then the rest of it just becomes simple. Right. Um.

899
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: We talked about that with Kesh and Releaves fly fishing,

900
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: like just own that ship, just own that. It's a

901
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: very part it's a very selfish endeavor. But like this

902
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: opportunity could side railist right now, going we're not going there,

903
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: Mark and I had one time, like a two hour

904
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: it was like seven o'clock at night, We're trying to work,

905
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: and then we're not gonna do that here, we promise you. Um.

906
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: But I think that that bow hunting is is selfish

907
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: a lot of times. And it's like this, I admit it,

908
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: like it's a selfish thing. I I enjoy the experience

909
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: more with a bow in my hand than with a rifle.

910
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: You know. Um, it does that complicate the ethical endeavor? Fuck?

911
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: Yes it does, boy, it does a lot. Um. But

912
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: I also just realized that I'm not out there just

913
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: for meat. I'm not out there just for conservation. It's

914
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: not at its core an altruistic thing that I'm doing.

915
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: It is very much for me, but it's for me

916
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: for a good reason, you know, because it enriches my

917
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: life and it gives me something and the by products

918
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: of which meat conservation I dearly love, and I think

919
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: I like there. I think those byproducts are the some

920
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: of the most important things that I've given to your

921
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: fucking world around me, or whatever however you say it, so,

922
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: you know, addressing what you said, I just think my

923
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: opinion would be, after all that is that that this

924
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: is just like what you said, is it's a very

925
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: sometimes a selfish endeavor. I think when a fella puts

926
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: on an orange vest and picks up a bow and

927
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: goes out, like I would have to like, here a

928
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: really good reason for that choosing to bow hunt during

929
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: gun season when he could be with a gun. Yes,

930
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: and there's you know, obviously we know that in the

931
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: in wildlife management, in biology, like there's a reason why

932
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: you can bow hunt from September to January, but only

933
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: rifle hunt from you know, November one, November eleventh or whatever,

934
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: you know, just making those numbers up, obviously, But um,

935
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: there's reasons for that, right, There's wildlife management reasons and

936
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: wildlife managers and state game agencies are taken in wound

937
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: loss numbers as they look at how many year can

938
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: be killing from a certain state or a certain unit.

939
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: So we know that too as we go into it. Um,

940
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people are tree hunt deer doing just fine,

941
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: and so the system we have in place is working. Yeah,

942
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: so it's it's selfish this thing. Maybe it's a working

943
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: system and it's got a lot of good that goes

944
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: into it. So um yeah. I mean the end, I

945
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: think the imperfection of bow hunting are clear and present,

946
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: but but not so damning that we should never do it. Yeah.

947
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: I think it's as long as we own it and

948
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: as long as the only thing that does bother me

949
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: is the guy or girl who who has experienced the

950
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 1: imperfections of bow hunting and doesn't try to do anything

951
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: about it. Like I'm just gonna grab a boat for

952
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: the season. Yeah, I wound a couple of deer every year,

953
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: but I got my buck, uh, put it up at

954
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: the end of the season. And then next year, September three,

955
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: I grabbed the ball out that I feel that shows

956
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: up a disregard for the his nature of what we're

957
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,919
Speaker 1: doing and for life. And I would caution I would

958
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: I would just want anyone. Yeah, I would go back

959
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: to du Shaun and his his Mechlovic. But like in

960
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: that area of the world and much of Europe, bow

961
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: hunting is thought to be unspeakable. Like I've hunted in Bulgaria,

962
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: hunting in Germany. It's starting to change the Scandinavia two.

963
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, bo hunting is catching on in some of

964
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: these areas. But traditionally they believe we have a rifle.

965
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: This is ethical. Um, it's more ethical and and more

966
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: responsible to use a rifle some and some of these

967
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: areas and countries in Europe, b hunting is illegal for

968
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: that reason, because we have a more powerful and more

969
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: lethal weapon to choose not to use it as foolish. Um.

970
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 1: There's arguments against that, like for us longer hunting seasons

971
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 1: and things of that nature that that certainly we would

972
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: argue for. But even that's very selfish. Um. But at

973
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: the same time, you go over to Germany and they

974
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: do driven months and they shoot rifles at running animals

975
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: as a tradition, as part of their tradition. So all

976
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: of this is oxymen roonic at some level, But there

977
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: is if you think about the reverence and the culture

978
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: and the European tradition for hunting there's more reverence, there's

979
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: a little bit more thought, and they don't use bows. Um.

980
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: But so that's just another another way to go about it.

981
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: You know. So I think for us, we think hard

982
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: about why we choose our tree. You know, I'm friends

983
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: with a lot of folks that only pick up a

984
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: bow and say that out say that out right, I

985
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: only pick up a bow, I only hunt with a

986
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 1: bow hashtag whatever, hashtag bow hunting only, um, and use

987
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 1: that as a bow and use a bow to shoot geese,

988
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: and use a bow to shoot turkeys, and use a

989
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: bow to shoot all types of things. They could just

990
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: as well a shot with a shotgun or a rifle.

991
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: And you have a problem with that? Is that what

992
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: you're saying? I mean, it'd be hard to explain. See

993
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: I I don't have a problem with that for the

994
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: same reasons that I just said in general, because I,

995
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, it's personal and it's a different wave.

996
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: It's it's a very different wave of hunting, right, the interaction,

997
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: the experience you have with a rifle hunting a deer

998
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: versus being forced to get that deer within thirty yards.

999
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: It's just it's a totally different thing. It's you could

1000
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: set it up ethically where you're like, I'm only going

1001
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: to take these shots. I'm only gonna do But who

1002
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: in the world has never done right? That's right? So

1003
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: I think do I have a problem with it? I

1004
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: don't think that's one of the things I would go

1005
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: after as a hunter. Like if some other hunters said,

1006
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: like I just huntled about it all right, well you

1007
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: better be pretty good, then they're pretty good. But there's

1008
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: something there's there's there's something I think now I understand

1009
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: your point of view and the other but I do

1010
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: think there's also something admirable about self limiting and increasing

1011
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: the level of challenge because it's not just the actual

1012
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: execution the shop, but it's everything else that happens around

1013
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: that everything. You must be a whole lot more just

1014
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: be in the right position, being at the right time,

1015
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: understanding they're so um. There's so much more that goes

1016
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: into getting within dirty yards of an animal than um.

1017
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: And that that's why bow hang is so compelling to me. Yeah, no,

1018
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: bohun is much more compelling than rifle. I mean, it's

1019
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: not even close. Um. And I do most of my

1020
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: hunting with a bow, and so I'm not certainly not

1021
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: challenging that as much as I am just saying, hey,

1022
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: look like we all know it, and let's just be

1023
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 1: more open about it, and let's just be let's let's

1024
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: look at win loss rates, and let's look at these

1025
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: things and try to um talk it through. Yeah, own

1026
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: it and get better. Yeah, for sure. And I think,

1027
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: um looking at these other examples in the world of

1028
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: where these things, how these things are being treated, is

1029
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: it provides some perspective. I haven't spent a ton of

1030
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: time in Europe hunting and around those cultures, but the

1031
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: time I have is has given me a lot of like, Okay,

1032
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: there's a different way to think about it. Here's a

1033
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: different way, you know, um And and Sweden in a

1034
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: lot of parts of Scandinavia, Um, you have to take

1035
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: a competency test with your weapon before you have to

1036
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: shoot a running steel plate, shoot a running moose to

1037
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 1: to be able to get a license to go hunt.

1038
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: It was much that way for Ducheon and keep going

1039
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: back to him, but much that way for him and

1040
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: the Chechoslovaki growing up. Um And So there's there's probably

1041
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: some things we can implement around bow hunting to just

1042
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: ensure that as a group. You know, we're holding ourselves

1043
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: to a standard because there should be a standard, right,

1044
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean I think so. The counterpoint

1045
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: to that would be, well, we are already struggling to

1046
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: recruit hirings. You want to put more barriers in the

1047
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: way of that. I'm with you. I'm not like a

1048
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: barrier do. I'm not like a like let the government

1049
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: figure that ship. I'm never that guy. I'm always like

1050
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: less of that is always is always good. Hopefully we

1051
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: can self regulate. Yeah, that's why. Yeah, self regulation, I would,

1052
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I think that ends up

1053
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: being the best way to do it. Yeah, and we

1054
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: and when we're on nobody's arguing against hunter safety classes.

1055
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: Nobody's like that sucks. And that's a great opportunity to

1056
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: incorporate more of this education. I think there's an opportunity

1057
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: to prove what we're doing. They're probably it's a long

1058
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: time since I've done that, so I don't know exactly

1059
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 1: what they're doing today, but I don't. I never shot

1060
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: a boat during I shot a shotgun. I remember during

1061
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: mine and a rifle shoot anything during ours, it was

1062
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: all classroom and well, when I grew and in my

1063
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: growing up, we didn't really hunt with archery tackle until

1064
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: I was like maybe eighteen sixteen, seventeen eighteen, and I

1065
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 1: think it was like thirteen or fourteen. Yeah, we it

1066
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: was two weeks out of the year and get a

1067
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: rifle out and you know, poke holes and animals. Thanks

1068
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: for me. It was poke holes and trees for a

1069
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: while for a while. But also, you know, you know,

1070
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: if if, and we'll look at this on the mediator

1071
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: dot com and hopefully in some articles to come by

1072
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: you and others, but look at is this really true?

1073
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: Is is is the wound loss rate on average for

1074
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: rifles you know, and and our tree? Where is that?

1075
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: Where is that level? Because there's a lot of over

1076
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 1: confidence with fire firearms, there's a lot of UM. I

1077
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: think we may find that we're completely off base. I've

1078
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: wondered about that because I do think shot selection with

1079
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: certain people with a firearm is much looser than much

1080
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: much looser. So that and and the number of hunters

1081
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: using that weapon significantly higher, So you've got a way

1082
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: higher number of hunters out there. And now again over generalizing,

1083
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: but a much higher number of hunters, a much higher

1084
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: percentage of those taking low UM quality shots probably. Um. Now, yeah,

1085
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: the weapon itself might be more effective, but only when

1086
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: when used to use the right way, And there might

1087
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: I would be very interesting to see to what I

1088
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: because I think I don't know what the answer is.

1089
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: But you know, the imperfecional about hunting being what they are,

1090
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: there's not that doesn't mean picking up a rifle is

1091
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: a perfect thing to do. I mean it goes back

1092
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: to an example you up earlier, like shooting a moving animal.

1093
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: That's something that people do with firearms quite a lot.

1094
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,280
Speaker 1: Uh deer drives in Iowa. I think it's still illegal.

1095
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: It's a big thing of Michigan. Big things in Michigan.

1096
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: It's a big thing down south, you know. I Um,

1097
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: but I think there's there's it's it's a traditional used thing.

1098
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: It's something that a lot of people do. I'm not

1099
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna sit here and tell anyone what to do, but

1100
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: I will just tell you that growing up for me, um,

1101
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: my grandfather, who was kind of the the patriarch of

1102
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: our family and our hunting camp and who everyone kind

1103
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: of he'd he'd set the laws. If you were to

1104
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: shoot it a moving animal, you were out. You're out.

1105
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: We had a an uncle of mine brought a friend

1106
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: up to her deer camp one year and they saw

1107
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: a buck chasing a dough across the field with inside

1108
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: a deer camp, and that guy ran outside the camp,

1109
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: grabbed his rifle off the side of the cabin, start

1110
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: pole pole, shooting that buck. He was gone. That wasn't

1111
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: acceptable because that in my grandfather's eyes, that is not

1112
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: you can't guarantee you're not gonna win an animal. Talk

1113
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: about self freak relation. That's um. So that was that

1114
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: was the world and the tradition I grew up, and

1115
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: so that's where my perspective comes from. Um. But I

1116
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: understand that there's different views. Yeah, there certainly is, and

1117
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: that's that's something we're here to explore. Man. Like, I

1118
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: think that's the beautiful thing about what we've got going

1119
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: with this company is that we're all willing to engage

1120
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: in these conversations and poke holes on our own assumptions.

1121
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: Like I got some assumptions about what bothers me, and

1122
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: I know that some of it's wrong, but what like

1123
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: they can't be all right right, um, But identifying these things, like,

1124
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, you've been pretty forward and talking about writing

1125
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: a piece on on on this subject, and I think

1126
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: that's what it's the beauty of what we're gonna try

1127
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: to do is take these issues that we all have.

1128
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: We all know they're there. Um, I think I don't

1129
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: know if you would agree with this, but I think, um,

1130
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: maybe our father's generation and then some parts of our generation,

1131
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: UM would have rather pushed it on the rug for

1132
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: year of you know, persecution, then um, then talk it through.

1133
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: I think having those conversations is important. It's always something

1134
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: I've I've thought so too, like where we may not

1135
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: agree on everything, but I think it is a positive

1136
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 1: step to at least put it out there. Talk about it. Yeah,

1137
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: think about I think through these things. This is something

1138
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: I know you'll um you're right about soon. But talk

1139
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: about if you have a tag, right, Every state is

1140
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: different for how they doll out their tags and licenses

1141
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. But let's just build a

1142
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: scenario where I've got one tag for a deer every

1143
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: year with the bow. Let's just use a bow as

1144
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: an example. Um, the big buck that you we're chasing

1145
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: comes by, something happens and you plunk one into his

1146
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 1: high quarters, plunking arrow in his high quarters. He runs

1147
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: off your relatively positive that he's not he's not deceased.

1148
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: You try and try and try, you try to make

1149
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: it happy, and um, even in this you know, even

1150
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: we'll just make up in this hypothetical that you hunt

1151
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: around the area where he was last seeing there is

1152
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: blood but not a lot, there's hair. You know, you

1153
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: know that you put a arrow into an animal and

1154
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: then he's likely not dead. Um, do you not your

1155
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: tag or not? Yeah? So I've been in this situation myself,

1156
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: and um, it's almost twice a two situations kind of

1157
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: similar to this, and I had two different perspectives on it.

1158
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: One was like six years ago. One was this year,

1159
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: and I thought differently about it this year than I

1160
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: did six years ago. And it's again, it's another one

1161
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: of these issues that it's, uh, there's a weird line

1162
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: somewhere in here. It's hard to know where to draw

1163
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: that line, I think. Um, but that first scenario, hit

1164
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: a deer and saw where the arrow hit and it

1165
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: was it was back and low, and my first gut

1166
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: was that, you know that that should be a dead deer.

1167
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: But we tracked and tracked and tracked. I looked for

1168
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: him for three days, never found him. Very little blood. Um.

1169
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: I was devastated. It was this buck I've been watching

1170
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: for two years, the biggest deer at that point I

1171
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: ever got a shot at it. Just it was like

1172
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: a in my mind and head, it was like it

1173
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: was really it was a really Um, I just really

1174
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to have end that way. Um. So it's

1175
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: pretty devastated. Drove home that night. I'm not hunting anymore. Um,

1176
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: I got pulled over speeding on the way home. Um.

1177
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't a bad place for a week, but then

1178
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: after a week, I was like, you know what, you know,

1179
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that bucks still out there. I thought when

1180
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: we should have found him, he was dead. We should

1181
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: have found him. Um, the shot was low, might have

1182
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: been just like low brisket. Um. Just you know. I

1183
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: eventually convinced myself that I should keep hunting. And I

1184
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: got a picture, and I'm like, that's I got a

1185
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: picture of him. So he made it. I thought I

1186
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: thought he made it. I got a picture of a

1187
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: buck to look like him, So all right, I'm gonna

1188
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: keep hunting. And uh so this is two weeks after

1189
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: having that first shot and not being able to cover

1190
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: that buck. I'm hunting I see this buck come walking

1191
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: and and oh my god, that's the job breaker. It

1192
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: was real fast, how was happening? So I got in

1193
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: this picture of him alive. The night before I checked

1194
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: the camera scene it alive, and the next morning I

1195
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: made a move to go into that buck's core are

1196
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: again to try to get him set up like a

1197
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: hanging hunting type. The deal within like and I don't

1198
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: know what it was an hour of day later or

1199
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: something to hear that buck comes big, tall frame deer

1200
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: um and I got shot him. Oh my gosh, I

1201
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: just got this buck. It was amazing that all came together.

1202
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: Had been like the lowest of lows and then the

1203
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: highest highest. Now fast forward a few hours and I

1204
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: recovered the deer. Walk up with the deer. I look

1205
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: at him like, oh, that's not him. It's a different buck,

1206
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: And I was like, whoall he looked a lot like him.

1207
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: He was like a slightly smaller version of that deer.

1208
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: But then I realized I'd kill a different buck. And

1209
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,959
Speaker 1: then as the season progressed, I kept checking trail cameras

1210
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: and stuff because my buddy was still hunting there, and

1211
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: no pictures of the original buck. No pictures of the

1212
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: original buck. No pictures of original buck, so maybe he

1213
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: didn't make it. Maybe was this buck all along that

1214
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: spring I go shed hunting right there in the area

1215
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: where this buck where I shot this buck, not far

1216
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: from that the original buck, and it was also close

1217
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: where I shot that other one. I find the original

1218
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: buck dead, and so that I'm thinking, man, you had

1219
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: killed that dear he holed up in this little bottom

1220
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: of a ditch and you just missed him. And me

1221
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: we grid searched, type I brought two different dogs in

1222
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: to try to find him. So either we just somehow,

1223
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: by some horrible struggle of fate missed him, or it

1224
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: had been like a several day thing he came back.

1225
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: So that was like, that was really shitty. Um, that

1226
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: was really shitty, And that was like, that was that

1227
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: first example of my life as a bow hunter where

1228
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: that happened and where it really made me like think

1229
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: about this whole top of the imperfection of ball hunting

1230
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: and the when that happens, what do you do? How

1231
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: do you process that? What does that mean if you're

1232
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: moving forward as a hunter, how do you how do

1233
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: you do everything you possibly can to make sure something

1234
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: like that doesn't happen again, etcetera, etcetera. UM, So that

1235
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: was that situation. That's how I dealt with that situation

1236
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: at that point. Now fast forward to this past season.

1237
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: I get a shot at a deer um in Montana

1238
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: on a hunt, and the shot seem pretty darn good

1239
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: from what I re meant from the shot, like I

1240
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: had video was consumed out, But I was like, yeah,

1241
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good shot, Like that's a dead deer.

1242
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: There's no way that deer is not gonna die. But

1243
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't find blood. I couldn't find blood, not that

1244
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: part of it, because I've got some red green color blindness.

1245
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't pop to me and I'm by myself in

1246
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. So it wasn't like maybe I

1247
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: missed some blood that I should have, but I was

1248
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: having a hard time finding blood. Eventually, that grid search

1249
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: wasn't find anything that night. The next morning came back

1250
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: in daylight because I couldn't see anything anymore because how

1251
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: dark was that night. Came back in the next morning,

1252
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: search and search and search, find a little blood. Grid search,

1253
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: grid search, grid search, and I was devastating, like, oh

1254
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: my god, you are You're not gonna find this buck

1255
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: in here. I mean, it's just so thick, and I

1256
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: was unbelievably upset about it, so frustrated. Um And and

1257
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: that's all right, you're done hunting, like that deer is

1258
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: dead and you have to find that deer or you're

1259
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: going home with a punch tag like you're you're You're gonna.

1260
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I've got five more days here until I

1261
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: have to go home, and I'm gonna walk every single

1262
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: hour of daylight and five days and if I don't

1263
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: find that deer, then I'm done. UM. So, I don't

1264
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: know what the right thing for someone to do. I

1265
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: think that if if I can understand, if you know

1266
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: that you hit a deer in a way that is

1267
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: clearly not fatal, like if you shoulder blood shot deer

1268
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: and it gets two inches of penetration, or if you

1269
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,919
Speaker 1: just graze a deer there's a little bit of pair.

1270
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: But if there's some way you feel very very clear

1271
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: that that is a non lethal hit, and then you

1272
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: but you still did everything you possibly could do to

1273
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: make sure of that, um in that situation, or especially

1274
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: if you can see him again, I get a picture

1275
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 1: again in that situation, I totally. I can understand continued

1276
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: hunting that kind of situation. And again, this is just me.

1277
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: This is the way I think. I know, there's different

1278
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: perspectives on I would say if that if you shoot

1279
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: a buck and it's a clearly lethal hit, I personally

1280
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: would have a really hard time now not punching that

1281
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: tag like um. But that took a while for me

1282
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: to get to that point. Like that first year, I thought, well,

1283
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: because there's something that people the thing you hear is

1284
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: you gotta get back in the saddle, like the only

1285
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: way to get over this is to start hunting again.

1286
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: And I understand that from like a how to make

1287
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: you feel better standpoint? Like maybe, but is that the

1288
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: right thing? I don't know. I mean, I don't there's

1289
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: not necessarily I don't know if there's a clear cut

1290
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: answer from like from a how I don't know, but

1291
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: I think we're my heads at now. For me to

1292
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 1: feel okay with what I'm doing, I would have punched

1293
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: that montante um. Yeah, And it becomes that right like

1294
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: we we could have a wildlife manager come in here

1295
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: and tell us like, oh, where you know, as far

1296
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: as woon loss rates got an we take into account

1297
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: when we're doing the equation of population studies, we're taking

1298
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: into account the population of deer plus the population of hunters,

1299
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: and then we're putting wound loss rate in there somewhere

1300
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: in that equation. I'm sure. I'm sure that happens um

1301
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: and we'll endeavor to find someone that can give us

1302
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: some more information on that future articles and podcasts and

1303
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: things that we do. But but for sure that's happening.

1304
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: So given that it becomes a personal thing when managed

1305
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: from a larger macro management perspective, it's not the end

1306
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: of the world. It's like, that's so we're we're not

1307
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: saying like, wow, man, you know, as a as a hunter,

1308
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: who's responsible for these things, like don't do this? No, No,

1309
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: that's not it. It's more like, and I think as

1310
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: a kid, you don't really have the caring for like

1311
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: the animal. You just don't have the capacity to have

1312
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: the caring and empathy empathy for the animal as you

1313
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: do um when you've developed this really these relationships with

1314
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: these dear and you've tracked them and hunted them, you know.

1315
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: So I think I would also argue that white tail

1316
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: hunters have the most empathy for the animals. People always

1317
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: talk ship and I have in the past about naming

1318
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: dear but yeah, we we'll continue to. But one of

1319
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: the good things is that you develop empathy for that animal.

1320
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 1: It's based on your relationship with it. It's a very unique,

1321
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 1: weird kind of relationship. And then again the like one

1322
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: of the more complex relationships, and it's um, the hunter's

1323
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: paradox is what I would have very much so. And

1324
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of folks I've written and been philosophized,

1325
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: if that's the word about about these things, but you know,

1326
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: they'd like to put a point on it. I think

1327
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: it's a personal thing, but I think um, as a hunter,

1328
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: it's something to consider, like, it's something to have in

1329
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: your like, don't don't discount that scenario. Don't say I

1330
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: always unless I get like, I only tag it if

1331
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: I have the actually animal. Leave yourself some room to

1332
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: make that. Just make that choice when it's necessary, you know,

1333
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: And don't don't write it off in any way. Keep

1334
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: it because it's it's useful. Yeah, I definitely agree, and

1335
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: for me, it's it comes a lot of people. You

1336
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 1: don't have to do this. A lot of people don't

1337
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: do this, but I think more and more, and and

1338
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: definitely myself. The more time I the deeper I getting

1339
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: hunting just from just the activity participating in it. The

1340
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: more I think about it, and the more I think

1341
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing, the more I think about why

1342
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: am I doing it? Or how is this okay? Or

1343
01:09:57,680 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 1: how is what I'm doing? How do I justify this

1344
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: to my stuff? How do I Those things are just

1345
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: in my mind a whole lot more. And it's those

1346
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: kinds of questions that lead me to the debates that

1347
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: we just had had that own debate my own head

1348
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: and the decision I made this year versus what I

1349
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: made that one year. I think the more and more

1350
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,480
Speaker 1: you think about these things, the more it will influence

1351
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: some of these decisions around all these tricky, hairy, complex times.

1352
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: And I've been we were talking last night, I've been

1353
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm not like a staunch opponent of the grip and

1354
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: grand but I'm just like kind of over it. And

1355
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: there's a million reasons why not to do it, I think, um,

1356
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: but I get why people do. If you look at

1357
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: my Instagram account, you'll see plenty of grip and grins

1358
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: on there from years past. I haven't done one in

1359
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: a while, but it's I've done them recent enough that

1360
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 1: you could call me a hypocrite or a flip flopper. Um,

1361
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: and I'd have to defend that. But that's just it's

1362
01:10:55,560 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: keep evolving, keep thinking about the thing that we're doing. Um.

1363
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: And like I said, I mean, white del hunting is

1364
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 1: is it? Man? It is the core of what we do.

1365
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: It is the most prevalent type of hunting, and it's

1366
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: the most the relationship with the animal we have the

1367
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: most as a society and a culture, I think. I mean,

1368
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 1: we can talk about charismatic mega faun in our relationship there,

1369
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: but it's not as tense on a daily basis. I mean,

1370
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: I've lived in Texas, deer lived in my backyard. I'm

1371
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: here in Montana. There's deer in my backyard. Last night. Um,

1372
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: we went to the media Christmas party and they were

1373
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: deer walking around all over the place. So our relationship

1374
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: with these animals are is much more tangible than our

1375
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: relationship with others. I think is the point that you're

1376
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: getting to with this that we can clearly point to

1377
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: where to hunt being the most important cut podcast. This

1378
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: is it. This is the white tail podcast. You better

1379
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: listen to that or your a loser. And to close

1380
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: this all out of tell I gotta tell a quick story.

1381
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: Here's um. We were in a meeting the other day

1382
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: and my wife texted me, but I've been it's very intense, right,

1383
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 1: a couple of days worth of UM meetings. My wife's

1384
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: texted me something around the like missing you. Of course

1385
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: I missed her too, and so I texted her back,

1386
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: what do you have it there? Did you pull it up?

1387
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: Ben texted his quote unquote wife, busy meeting day, but

1388
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: can't wait for a weekend with my lovees. Are you okay?

1389
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: And I responded, I can't wait. You text your buddy,

1390
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: sweet nothings that are meant for your lady. Yeah, we

1391
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: we got a good laugh out of that one. We're

1392
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: going to have a good weekend, you and I this weekend.

1393
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait for it because what we are love.

1394
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 1: I'm glad we established that early on. Yeah, it's good.

1395
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 1: That's where we're gonna end it right there, Thanks buddy,

1396
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, Ben. That's it. That's all. Another episode of

1397
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: the Hunting Collective in the books. Thanks Mark Kenyan A

1398
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: great conversation as a white tail hunter. White Tail lover.

1399
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,759
Speaker 1: It's good to hear his perspective on some of those different,

1400
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: more difficult topics. But it's just good to hang out

1401
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: with that guy. He's a good, good, good man. UM.

1402
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: It's very caring and the way he approaches hunting, and

1403
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: really enjoy enjoy talking to him as always. What else

1404
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: is on the docket to talk about? Hey, UM, there's

1405
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: a little thing online. It's a big controversy, big, big

1406
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: controversy online this last week about UM stickers. I got

1407
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 1: what like three negative comments. Basically the whole internet was

1408
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: talking about the sticker gate. I called sticker gate. Yeah,

1409
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: that's a good name for it. UM posted about, Hey,

1410
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 1: go go to the uh the meat eater dot com

1411
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 1: store you know there and buy some stickers. Well, apparently

1412
01:13:57,920 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: the sticker was four bucks, but the shipping was six pot,

1413
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 1: making it a ten dollar sticker. That better be a

1414
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 1: damn good sticker for that much money. So that was

1415
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: something I didn't know. I didn't know about the shipping.

1416
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: So now that I know that, UM, we'll try to

1417
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: get that changed. But in the meantime, UH, there's more

1418
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 1: stuff there, so you could order, for example, a pro

1419
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 1: nuance anti bullshit T shirt. You can also order a

1420
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: kick ass hoodie with the Hunting Collective podcast logo on there,

1421
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: and then you can also um order a sticker right

1422
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: those three things are there right now. So if you

1423
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: go to store dot the meat Eator dot com or

1424
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: just go to the metator dot com click on shop,

1425
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: you'll find those items there. You can buy them now

1426
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: and buy them in any quantity that you want. But

1427
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: I think we'll get over sticker Gate all three folks

1428
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: that can claimed. Hopefully you will also get there and

1429
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: buy a shirt or a hoodie or something cool like that.

1430
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: Um It's it's fun to have put that stuff out there,

1431
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 1: so I hope that you like it. And while you're there,

1432
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,560
Speaker 1: if you have a little more time, click on the

1433
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: newsletter button up there. It's a subscribe Click on there.

1434
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: You put your email in and then every Wednesday, the

1435
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 1: Mediator Crew, which I'm a part of, send you an

1436
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: email with all this awesome content in it. It's got

1437
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: Pat Durkin, it's got Brodie Henderson, Steve Ronella me, it's

1438
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: got Mark Kenyon, it's got a pril fokey, it's got

1439
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff they're in So you're gonna want

1440
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: to go and do that. It's been to be very important,

1441
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: uh for everyone. So we thank you, thank you for listening,

1442
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 1: thank you for commenting, and really appreciate um all the

1443
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 1: support we've had recently. UM, all the downloads and the

1444
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: listens that that we've been getting been that that's been

1445
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: growing precipitously and I'm thrilled about that and never thought

1446
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: um we'd be in a position where are today, but

1447
01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 1: I'm happy about it. So thank you again for listening

1448
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:02,879
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time on the Hunting Collective.

1449
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: Bye m