WEBVTT - Anti-Vax America: Could It Happen Here? 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:05.400 Al Zone Media. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to the final episode of Anti vax America, a 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.640 special mini series from It could Happen Here. I'm your host, 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.759 Stephen Monachelli, a journalist in Dallas and sometimes contributor to 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:22.759 cool Zone Media. Over the past episodes, we've explored the 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.000 origins of the current measles outbreak, the historical roots of 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.600 the anti vaccination movement, the overlap between vaccine hesitancy and 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:36.080 conservative Christianity that upholds a strong belief in spiritual healing, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.320 and the eugenic implications of contemporary anti vax ideology and 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.360 the Maha movement. In this episode, we'll explore the future. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.240 Could the United States see a massive return of viral outbreaks, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.720 How would a nationwide collapse and vaccination rates impact our 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.720 public health? And what are we to make of the 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.520 rise of alt medicine and whether that could continue to 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.880 spread if people like RFK Junior elevate these hucksters into 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:09.759 national figures. These are not just academic questions. If vaccination 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.600 rates continue to decline, we could see the return of 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.960 diseases like polio, which had been eradicated in the United 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.240 States for decades. In recent years, there have been cases 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.839 of polio found in waste water, and one confirmed case 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.280 of a man with polio in an unvaccinated community in 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.360 New York. An expert warned that these isolated incidents could 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.680 spread into larger outbreaks, and these concerns are well founded, 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.119 particularly given that RFK Junior has said as recently as 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.280 twenty twenty three that early batches of polio vaccines caused cancer, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:50.160 something that has never been demonstrated in the research. Vaccination 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.760 is the most effective tool we have to prevent the 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:58.480 spread of communicable, deadly diseases. Without widespread vaccination, we face 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.440 the very real possibility of devastating public health crises, and 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.480 the resurgence of diseases like measles and polio, and smallpox 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:11.200 and more would put our most vulnerable populations at risk, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.960 especially the elderly, the immunal compromised, and others who cannot 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.760 be vaccinated. We don't have a crystal ball that will 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.280 allow us to see into the future, but as the 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.359 anti vaccination movement grows, it is clear that the risk 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.160 of large scale outbreaks is increasing, and if we don't 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.000 correct the course soon, we could see a public health 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.120 disaster unlike any we've seen in recent history. Perhaps even 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.880 worse than COVID, which took more than one point one 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.840 million American lives. In this episode, we will explore what 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.760 could happen here in the United States if the anti 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.679 vaccination movement continues to get their way. As I conducted 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.920 interviews with medical doctors and public health experts featured in 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.680 this series, I asked them all the same question, where 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.320 do you see this going? Each had their own answer, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.360 and all of their answers pointed in the same direction. 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.080 Here's Catherine Wells, the head of public health in Lubbock, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.600 the largest county in West Texas where the measles outbreak began. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.720 I do worry that, you know, we are going to 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.440 see other vaccine preventable diseases. You know, measles is the 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.680 most highly infectious. But for all of those people that 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.359 are becoming infected with measles, you know they'll be immune, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.480 But that doesn't mean they're immune from mumps and rubella 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:37.120 and other vaccine preventable diseases that could easily enter a 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.640 community with lower vaccination rates, and those can come next. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.920 So I mean that is concerning. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.640 Measles is sort of like a canary in the coal 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.120 mine when it comes to vaccination rates. It's the first 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:56.240 sign of a collapsing system. Here's doctor Peter Hotez, the 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:57.960 vaccine scientist in Houston. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.160 You know, with the formation of anti vaccine groups in 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.280 the twenty tens in Texas, you started to get these 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:09.520 steep rise in parents requesting non medical exemptions that their 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.560 kids could get out of being vaccinated for school. And 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.360 it was particularly strong in the same places where people 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:21.240 were refusing COVID vaccine. Years later, especially in conservative rural 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.600 areas of West Texas East Texas, the vaccination rates continue 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.919 to be strong in our cities of the Texas Triangle, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.280 Dallas where you are, in Houston where I am, and 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.480 San Antonio and Austin. But you know, in the more 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.000 conservative rural areas of West Texas East Texas, that's where 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.880 you saw big declines in kids getting vaccines. And once 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:48.359 you go below a certain threshold, roughly below ninety percent 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.599 and bam, that you start to see break through childhood infections. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.080 And usually the first one you see is measles. You 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.000 can ultimately get all of them, but measles is the 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.840 first one you see because it's so highly transmiss it's 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.680 the most transmissible virus we know about. So measles is 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.120 kind of the whatever you want to call it, the 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:12.000 early biomarker of a problem with your vaccination system. And unfortunately, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.960 now it's just tearing through West Texas and the Panhandle, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.520 and now it's in four states, all more or less 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.880 in the Great Plains area of the country. Right it's 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.000 the Panhandle in West Texas at the southern end of 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.200 the plain's been into joining areas in New Mexico, then 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.240 going up into Oklahoma and now Kansas. In my worry 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.760 is that this is a very large probably much larger 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.680 than is actually being reported. I mean, I don't see 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.360 this thing wearing down anytime soon. And I'm worried about 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.360 really prolonged measles epidemic to the point where we could 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.920 even lose measles elimination status in the US if it 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.720 goes on a full year. Between twenty twenty three and 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.240 twenty twenty four, we've had a fold rise in measles 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:06.080 epidemics outbreaks. We've had a sixfold rise and whooping cough 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.080 Protessa's cases. We've had polio upear in the wastewater in 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.479 New York State. So we're already trending in the wrong 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.360 direction even before this current administration because of all the 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.880 anti vaccine sentiment rhetoric out there. Now you throw on 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.479 top of it efforts to actively dismantle our vaccine ecosystem, 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.360 and I can only imagine what's going to happen. I 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.919 really worry about the widespread return of all these childhood illnesses, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.520 just like we're seeing now with measles. I mean, we're 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.000 looking at the potential of sustained transmission going on for 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.240 months and months to the point where we could lose 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.880 our measles elimination status, and then it goes on from there, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.720 because measles is the most highly transmissible I worry about 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.120 the same with whooping cough protessis. I worry about even 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.360 potentially polio returning, and not only in the US, because 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.840 you know, as we both know, the US is very 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.279 good at exporting its called. Sure, we export our music, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.760 we export our movies. I worry about exporting this stuff, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.120 and I worry about the impact on Latin American countries, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.800 on low and middle income countries in Asia and Africa, 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.920 and in Europe as well. So a complete unraveling of 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.880 our vaccine ecosystem and global goals, and that really gives 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:20.720 me a lot of pause for concern. 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:34.920 And on that note, a quick ad break. It's probably 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.679 safe to assume that the majority, if not the entirety, 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.000 of the audience of this show grew up in a 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.480 time when vaccinations were widely embraced and considered beneficial. That 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.760 also means that most of us have never lived during 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.440 a time when children and adults were regularly disabled or 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:56.600 killed by diseases like smallpox or folio. In the twentieth century, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.520 three hundred million people were killed by smallpox in the 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.480 nineteen forties and nineteen fifties, Polio killed nearly half a 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.720 million people world wide annually and paralyzed hundreds of thousands, 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.120 but both of those diseases were effectively eradicated decades ago. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.320 The last person living in an iron lung, the medical 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.360 device that keeps people who were paralyzed from polio alive, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.640 died in March of twenty twenty four, and even measles, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.880 which is considered a relatively less dangerous illness, was routinely 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.240 deadly before vaccination was widespread. There was a time when 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.920 thousands of Americans died from the disease every year. All 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.400 of that was due to the creation of vaccine policy 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.360 and infrastructure over time. But now RFK Junior and the 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.520 MAHA movement threatened to tear all that down and send 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:49.480 us back in time. Here's doctor David Gorsky. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.240 I'll start with vaccines and then I'll try to move 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.880 more to MAHA. So with vaccines, what I think we're 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:04.920 seeing is the systematic intentional dismantling of federal vaccine infrastructure 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:11.199 and policy, this whole call for placebo controlled trials. If 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:16.000 they define new vaccines as any new vaccine, it will 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.160 mean that there will be no new vaccines approve until 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.280 it's changed, which would at the earliest be after Trump 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.720 is out of office. If they define it as just 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.640 new vaccines for diseases that don't have vaccines, it might 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:36.800 be less of an issue either way, though contrary to 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.840 what they claim they want to do, which is increase 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.680 public confidence in vaccines, it will almost certainly have the 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.000 opposite effect. I recently wrote I think yeah. It was 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.640 last week's post. I wrote about a study that modeled 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.960 what would happen with certain percentage declines in vaccine uptake 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.280 for four different vaccines, including the measles vaccine, of course, 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.760 and it estimates did you know some pretty catastrophic numbers, if, 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.840 for instance, vaccine uptake declined even ten percent or fifty 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.360 percent over the next twenty five years, you know, millions 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.840 of cases, thousands of deaths, you know, in other words, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.760 going back to basically the way it was before the 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.560 measles vaccine was licensed in the early nineteen sixties. You know, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.120 you sure you can. You can complain that, you know, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.520 the model was somewhat simplistic, but if anything, I think 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.800 it was probably conservative because they used a lot of 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:36.400 conservative assumptions. We could well be heading for that sort 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.920 of future, although it takes a while for things to change, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:45.720 even with this sort of radical action that RFK Junior 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.080 is taking, and likely we would not see the worst 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:54.200 effects really take off until after Trump's out of office, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.160 assuming he leaves office in twenty twenty nine, so you know, 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.880 it'll be left to his successsessors to deal with the mess. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.680 And it's always easier to destroy than it is to 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.679 rebuild out. Obviously. Now the interesting counterpoint to you know, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.040 Maha saying, oh, we must increase the gold standard science 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.040 applied to vaccines and make the standards for approval and 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:22.480 licensure you know, much more stringent. The exact opposite is 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.800 what they're talking about. For things like stem cell therapies, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.080 you know, they're on the vast majority of which are 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:33.760 unproven and often very expensive. A lot of other you know, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.960 wellness treatments and that sort of a thing. So we 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:43.160 could be seeing a lot less novel pharmaceuticals and vaccines 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:49.200 being approved because the anti pharma you know, suspicion will 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.160 be such that the bar for approval will be higher, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.600 arguably too high. I realize that in the past I 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.160 once argued that that maybe our bar for approving some 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.120 drugs was too low, but that was more based on 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.240 the various accelerated approval programs that had come into being 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.640 in the years before that, where I thought that perhaps 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:16.800 the follow up after the initial accelerated approval was not adequate. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.720 At the same time, it could become more and more 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.480 like the Wild West. When it comes to everything else, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.640 we could very well have the equivalent of you know, 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.880 the traveling snake. Oil salesmen going across you know, the 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.319 planes in their cart, you know, selling There are various lineaments. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.480 I'm not exactly sure what that would look like. I 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.960 do know that, for instance, it's already pretty much like 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.880 that for a lot of quote unquote stem cell therapies 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.600 that have never really been demonstrated to be effective and safe, 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.760 and you know, the same randomized clinical controlled trials that 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.760 they demand, you know, for vaccines. One thing I have 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.800 little doubt of is that public health is going to 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.839 be degraded significantly over the next four years. And how 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.640 we recover from that, I don't know. I'm struggling with 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.400 thea of what can be done to resist it or 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.520 slow it down, given that you know, the entire Republican 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.640 Party doesn't seem to want to put any sort of 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.400 checks on this administration mm hm. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.040 And you know, if we were to have some other 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:29.319 sort of major pandemic, either a new virus that breaks 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:34.880 through or a return of some disease that was once 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:41.520 out of circulation, there's no real guarantee that deaths or 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:47.320 widespread illness or disability as a result of those possible 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.880 events will even spur a reaction in a way that 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.520 would set us on a path back towards confidence in 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.160 public health and vaccination. You know, the outcome of COVID 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.920 was you know, it's it's quite clear that COVID was 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.520 sort of an accelerant for a lot of the anti 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.600 vaccination beliefs that had long been incubating. And you know, 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:15.319 our public discourse and broad distrust of public health entities 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.840 in general. And you know, like you said, you know, 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.560 Trump's successor will be left to clean up whatever mess 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.880 is made. And it's possible that Trump's successor could be 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.320 someone like JD. Van's, Yes, it could, or someone who 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:36.600 shares this affinity for you know, quasi eugenic statements or beliefs, 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.360 or this general disregard for the consequences of a sort 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.440 of social Diarwinist approach to public health. And so, you know, 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:50.320 we don't want to overstate the risks and be doomsayers. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.360 But on the other hand, there's this real potential for 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.800 the return of you know, God forbid something like polio 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.560 or a breakthrough a and flu. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.480 You just reminded me polio was one of the diseases 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.800 modeled in that study, and the results was coming back 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:12.040 and hundreds or even thousands of cases of paralytic polio. Right. 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.760 And we live now in a time in which it's 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.440 always been the majority of people who have never had 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.000 someone in their family who was in an iron lung 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.800 but we live in a time now where like the 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.680 historical memory of that is somewhat lost because it's not 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.920 even in the popular consciousness. It's not something that is featured, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.440 you know in media. You know, used to read books 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.320 or watch films or even in television. You know, there 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.600 would be examples of something like that, someone who had 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.000 been impacted by polio and whether they were left disabled, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.400 you know, and had less use of their limbs, or 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.480 you know, if they ended up in an iron lung. 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.680 You know, that was something at least people were aware 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.720 of the risk, and it's it's kind of paralleled with 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.840 something Another public health official I spoke with talked about 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.880 how there's been like two decades of doctors who went 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.920 through their residencies never even seeing a case of measles, 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.080 and so now we're having to sort of re educate 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.760 not just our doctors, but really the whole population, and 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.960 that's a massive undertaking. We'll hear a bit more from 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.200 doctor Gorsky right after the sad break. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:31.880 You know. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.280 One of the things that anti vaxers like to do 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.160 is to try to claim that, oh, back before the vaccine, 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.760 people didn't think measles was a big deal, and they 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.160 will point to that famous episode of The Brady Bunch 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.240 that I don't know if you ever heard of, where 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.880 all the kids got the measles, and it was played 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.760 mainly for laughs, you know, like they're all happy about 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.880 being home from school and they're not very sick. They 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.120 just have little thoughts painted all over them, because I 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.200 guess that's how they showed them having the measles. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.480 This is a life, isn't it. Yeah, if you have 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.640 to get sick, she can't beat the measles. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:03.400 That's right. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.000 No medicine insider out like shots. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.000 Me don't even mention shots. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:15.680 Yeah, measles, measles, measles. Well, all the kids have now 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.280 had the measles so far, lot of them years ago. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:19.720 Looks like the Brady's are. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.480 Finished with a meaz There was also an episode of 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.439 The Flintstones that, believe it or not, they played the 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.399 measles for laughs, And there was an episode of The 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.600 Donna Reid Show from the fifties. They would point like 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.400 those and go, oh, they didn't consider measles a big deal. Well, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.080 if you read the actual medical and public health literature, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.439 you know they did. And you know there were hundreds 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.480 of thousands of confirmed cases a year, maybe millions of 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.359 cases a year, and at least averaging about four or 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.120 five hundred deaths a year, which doesn't sound like a lot, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.879 but in anything having to do with children, that's a 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.720 lot of death because we don't expect children to die. 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.639 Children should not die. They usually, you know, it's not 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:06.520 like elderly people where you know, it's expected that that's 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.000 when you know, the body starts giving out and people 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.600 are reaching the end of their lives. Children's death rates 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.080 should be low. That's why that's why we look at, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.159 you know, childhood cancer, and there was such an effort made, 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.000 you know, over from like the fifties on to try 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.840 to decrease the rate of death from childhood cancer. And 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.080 you know, the results have been pretty spectacular. About eighty 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:35.560 five percent of children with you know, cancer live, which 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.160 you know, before it was you know, a pretty small number. 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.080 And the funny thing is the number of childhood cancers 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.480 is very small compared to a lot of other things 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:51.000 that cause death. We viewed it as sufficiently important to 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.280 try to do something about it. At least we did, 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.480 the question of whether we will continue to because you know, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.280 anti kenemotherapy and various cancer nonsense tends to go right 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.520 along with maha and the other thing. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:06.720 You know. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.600 For instance, when RFK Junior made his one of his statements, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.760 was it in early March I believe, or it was 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.680 in March sometime about you know, where everyone was like, oh, 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.880 he said, the MMR works and is the best way 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.439 to stop the spread of measles. Yes, but you know, 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.159 instead of the traditional messaging that you would come out 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.640 of the CDC, which would be, you know, get vaccinated. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.800 You know MMR is the best way to put a 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:38.119 stop to this. Please, please, parents, get your kids vaccinated. Instead, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.359 what he sort of said is, yes, the vaccine, you know, 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.840 vaccination is good, you know the best way to stop 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.520 the outbreak. But then he buries it instead of baffling 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.960 with bullshit, it's more like burying it in bullshit. He 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.639 talks about, you know, vitamin A supposedly to treat measles. 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.280 He talks about how children die with measles rather than 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.560 of measles, which should sound very familiar because they pulled 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.800 the same rhetoric out for COVID and the idea being 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.760 that only the children who were already sick were harmed 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.440 by measles, and that you know, your middle class healthy 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.560 children are not in any danger. You know. One way 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.359 to look at the anti vaccine movement, besides the eugenesis undertones, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.600 sometimes not even undertones, one way to look at it 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.680 is as a purity cult. You may remember the whole 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.400 pure blood thing from a few years ago, like those 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.560 who were not vaccinated refusing to mingle with those who are. 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.280 Who are you know whose blood has somehow been contaminated 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.320 by the vaccine. It's the same as all. And think 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:45.720 of how much of alternative medicine involves quote unquote detoxification. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.159 I like to call it ritual purification because it's like 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.080 more of a religious concept than it is actually a 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.520 medical concept. And look at how treatment of quote unquote 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.359 vaccine injury involves something like elation therapy to pull the 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.680 evil heavy metals that are supposedly causing autism out of you. 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.320 So the idea that you have control of your health 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.879 if you only make your terrain in your body hostile 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:16.320 to microbes through your superior lifestyle. The one example of 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.080 this that I like to point out, and the best 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.919 retort to it that I like to point out, comes 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.400 from about two thousand and nine. If I recall right, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:29.920 it was Bill Maher on his HBO show, and Bob 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.320 Costas was the guess, and he was going on about how, 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:34.880 you know, this was around the time of the each 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.080 one in one flu pandemic, and he was going you knowing, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.000 he was going on about how he didn't need the 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.159 flu vaccine because you know, his terrain was so hostile 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.080 to the flu, because you know, of his superior lifestyle. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.399 Caused me to roll my eyes. But and that if 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.800 he were on an airplane with people coughing with the flu, 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.040 he would not get the flu. What did Costas say 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:03.800 to him? I love this retort? He said, Oh, come on, superman. 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.840 Bob Costas could have easily used a different word in 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.800 his retort, given the eugenic tendencies of the modern anti 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.919 vaccination movement, and the word I have in mind is 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:22.480 uber minch. But I digress. If the uber mensch of 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.280 the anti VAXX movement like RFK get what they want, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.320 we will live in a world where preventable communicable diseases 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.520 run rampant, the deaths of children are justified as either 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.720 a part of God's plan or a survival of the 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:40.280 fittest herd. Immunity strategy, where snake oil and beef tallow 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.320 salesmen are heralded above doctors and scientists, and where only 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:46.920 the strongest will survive at the expense of the week. 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.560 Diseases long thought defeated could return, and our ability to 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:55.000 address new viruses will be diminished. If RFK Junior successfully 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.560 dismantles what remains of our public health bureaucracy, and he's 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.879 doing it at a steady clip. In other words, the 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.520 future may end up looking a lot like the past, 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.240 more than it already does, and that's terrifying. The last 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:14.280 time deadly pandemics, religious fervor, and resistance to medical science 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:20.119 and eugenic policies all coincided historically with global trade breakdowns, 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.520 things did not work out so well for anyone involved. 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.320 And unfortunately, if I've taken one thing away from my 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:31.600 exploration of anti vacs America, it's that things will likely 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:35.160 have to get worse before they get better. It's really 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.520 hard to get people unstuck from their beliefs. Despite more 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.159 than one million Americans dying of COVID, the reaction to 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:47.160 pandemic restrictions combined with the anti vaccination movements convincing misinformation 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:52.360 around vaccines radicalized many people against vaccines and public health 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:59.480 measures in general. Before I recorded this final statement, the 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.560 Texas House voted to advance a bill that will expand 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.200 the ability for parents to seek exemptions for child vaccination 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.880 requirements for school. And this is happening as a measles 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.800 outbreak is ongoing, and things aren't looking good, But there 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:17.439 is at least one sliver of hope that I've found. 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:22.400 As my conversation with Gere illustrates, it's possible for people 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:27.000 who grow up in communities where vaccinations are avoided or 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.520 where there is no belief in them to get out 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:33.800 of those communities and to get themselves vaccinated. And as 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.800 my conversation with Catherine Wells illustrated, it is also possible 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.520 for people who had been hesitant to get their children 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:43.639 vaccinated for something like measles to be spurred into action 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.320 given reporting around an outbreak. But the question that ultimately 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:52.480 remains is whether enough people will have their minds changed 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:55.359 and embrace what the science tells us we should do. 0:24:56.160 --> 0:25:01.200 Given doctor Gorsky's astute observation that the anti vaccine movement 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:05.520 is someone like a purity cult and Gear's comment that 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:09.479 escaping their anti vax upbringing was sort of like escaping 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.359 a cult. Unfortunately, I think we will have to temper 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:17.080 our expectations for how quickly we can extricate our nation 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:23.040