1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from stuff 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Then welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: and today I'm joined by a very special guest host. 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: Say hello, do Hi, I'm Joe McCormick. Yes, from Forward Thinking, 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: coming over to visit our our our friendly little neighbor 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: podcast Text Stuff. Right. For those of you who may 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: not have listened to a Forward Thinking podcast, you should 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: fix that. I mean, Lauren, who was my former co host, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: is still on Forward Thinking, and so is Joe, and 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 1: so am I, and we talk about future stuff. They 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: just want to hear Lauren. You need to that's they 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: can still They can still hear her by going to 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Forward Thinking. So but Joe, you had this idea that 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: was kind of milling around for a blog post, but 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: it just never quite fit anywhere, right, Yeah, but I 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: finally wanted to talk about it with you. And it's 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: about ways that technology could, or at least people thought 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: could end war as we know it, so about world peace. 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: You've got a lot like people who are are real innovators, 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: really uh, forward thinkers, for lack of a better word, 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: often get kind of idealistic and optimistic, sometimes perhaps unrealistically 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: so right, And so we have some examples here of 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: people who very confidently at the time proclaimed that the 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: technology either they invented or that they were an advocate 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: for would be the end of war for one reason 26 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: or another. And they fall into different kinds of categories. 27 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about all of them. Yeah, So 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: there are several different ways I guess you could imagine 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: that war between humans could end, and me, on one hand, 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to imagine that because it's just 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: such a fundamental part of human nature and human history, 32 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: and obviously it would be a fantastic thing for us 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: to not violently kill each other in great numbers at 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: intervals of time. But there are a few ways you 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: could look at how this might happen. So one would 36 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: be to sort of make war too risky so that 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: it's just not in your self interest to pursue it, gotcha. 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: So the idea of being that even if you feel 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: you have an advanced military that to wage war of 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: any type would would encourage such losses as to nullify 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: any positive effect that that war might have, so it 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: just cannot be of a net advantage to you. The 43 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: only way to win is not to play. I guess 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: another way, though, this is kind of harder to imagine 45 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: how it would be done, would be to say that 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: you would make war completely impracticable or physically impossible. So 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: it's just you somehow create a technology that makes it 48 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: so that people cannot actually do it. You want to 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: shoot somebody, but your gun doesn't work. It's just filled 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: with crayons. Yeah, that would be a more difficult kind 51 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: of technology to imagine, but some people have sort of 52 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: gone down that road and it will blur together with 53 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: the category I just mentioned. Um. Another way would probably 54 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: be to sort of make war irrelevant, like to eliminate 55 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: the motivations that would drive people to war. So you 56 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: imagine that you might come up with a list of 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: different reasons people would declare war on one another, and 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: if you can eliminate all of those reasons for people 59 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: wanting to go, hypothetically they won't go. Gotcha. So this 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: would be kind of the Star Trek future where you 61 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: have created a world where where you've eliminated need. Therefore 62 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: war is a thing of the past. Yeah. Got The 63 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: other one would be to sort of change us, to 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: to change our outlook or to change our nature or 65 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: at least give us some kind of perspective that would 66 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: make war ridiculous to where we just realize it's no 67 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 1: good and we don't want to do it. And we've 68 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: got some some actual examples that fall into these various 69 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: categories in more than one well, and they're One of 70 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: the funny things is you don't have to go digging 71 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: into the annals of crank history to find people who 72 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: thought world peace would come about by one of one 73 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: of these methods. In fact, you can find really smart, famous, powerful, 74 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: influential people who thought technology could get us down one 75 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: of these roads to world peace. And I think the 76 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: first one we should talk about is a guy who's 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: very Internet famous these days, Nicola Tesla. Although you did say, 78 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: you know you don't have to look at cranks, Well, oh, 79 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: you're you're getting on your anti Tesla. Look, I just 80 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: electrical Horse. The episode that just published was a rerun 81 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: about our episode on Tesla where I talked about advocating 82 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: for Tesla and the Tesla versus Edison debate. Well, I mean, 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: it's it's not that I'm against Tesla, but it's pretty 84 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: true that he had some mental health issues. But at 85 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: any rate, let's talk about this idea, this idea of 86 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: a of an invention that negates war. Right, Tesla thought 87 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: that you could build something that would make war impossible. 88 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: What was that thing, Well, it's Tesla's famous death ray, 89 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: which immediately, as soon as you hear the name, you think, yeah, 90 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: that that sounds peaceful. I don't know if he actually 91 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: called it death ray. I don't think those were The 92 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: New York Times called it a death ray. Yeah. So 93 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: we've got a quote from Nikola Tesla. This is from 94 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: an article from nineteen thirty seven called a Machine to 95 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: End War, which featured an extended interview with Nikola Tesla, 96 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: where he gives the following quote. We cannot abolish war 97 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: by outlawing it. We cannot end it by disarming the strong. 98 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: War can be stopped not by making the strong week, 99 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: but by making every nation week or strong able to 100 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: defend itself. Hitherto, all devices that could be used for 101 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: defense could also be utilized to serve for aggression. This 102 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: nullified the value of the improvement for purposes of peace. 103 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: But I was fortunate enough to evolve a new idea 104 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: and too perfect means which can be used chiefly for defense. 105 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: If it is adopted, it will revolutionize the relations between nations. 106 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: It will make any country, large or small, impregnable against armies, airplanes, 107 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: and other means for attack. My invention requires a large plant, 108 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: but once it is established, it will be possible to 109 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: destroy anything men or machines approaching within a radius of 110 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: two hundred miles. It will, so to speak, provide a 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: wall of power, offering an insuperable obstacle against any effective aggression. 112 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: So when he says plant, he of course means power plant. 113 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: He does not a venus flag rout, not yet, not 114 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: an enormous redwood or something. So this death ray, as 115 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: as was referred to in the article I was never 116 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: actually fleshed out as far as we know. Tesla, first 117 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: of all, was famous for not writing a lot of 118 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: stuff down. He or at least that's why he claimed. 119 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: He claimed he could envision inventions completely fully formed in 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: his head, and even take them apart virtually in his 121 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: head and examine them to see how they worked, and 122 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: then eventually build the things, and they worked exactly the 123 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: way they were supposed to. Uh, that's part of the 124 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: Tesla story. Whether or not that's true, I don't know, 125 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: But at any rate, we don't have any evidence that 126 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: Tesla had anything remotely resembling a death ray or what 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: the actual mechanism would have been. Well, and he says, 128 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: my apparatus projects particles which may be relatively large or 129 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: of microscopic dimensions, enabling us to convey to a small 130 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: area at a great distance trillions of times more energy 131 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: than it's possible with rays of any kind, which doesn't 132 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: really sound like it means anything, but at any rate, UH. 133 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: During this time of Tesla's life, he was in his 134 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: seven these and this was when he was really kind 135 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: of mentally, it appeared he was breaking down. He had 136 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: already shown some signs of obsessive compulsive behaviors, possibly even 137 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: some paranoid schizophrenia, because it was around this time also 138 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: when he claimed that he had received transmissions from people, 139 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: either from Venus or Mars, so you know, it's things 140 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: were a little rough for Tesla. He was also in 141 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: the process of moving from one hotel to the other 142 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: because he would get evicted due to incurring enormous debts. 143 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: But because he had such a rock star status as 144 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: a physicist and UH an electrical engineer, he would be 145 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: invited to go live in another hotel until he had 146 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: run up the debts there. So he may very well 147 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: have just been trying to earn as much money as 148 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: he possibly could selling this idea. Uh. And you know, 149 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily. I don't mean that he didn't think it 150 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: was real. He may very well believe that he could 151 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: in fact produce this advice, but he didn't. So uh. 152 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: But this definitely falls into the realm of let's make 153 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: war impossible to happen by creating something that would prevent 154 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: the very act of aggression from reaching the intended target. 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: Once another country knows that you have this capability to 156 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: stop any incoming attack, there's no reason they would ever 157 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: attack you because it wouldn't work, right, of course, I 158 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: mean that's the that's the logic behind it, and the 159 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: idea actually. Now, whether you're talking about array or a 160 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: thing that he doesn't want to call array but is 161 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: instead projecting particles or whatever it is, this idea has 162 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily died the basic idea of creating a technological 163 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure that would repel automatically all incoming attacks and make 164 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: them pointless. How about the Star Wars initiative, Yeah, the 165 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: Strategic Defense initiative in the nineteen eighties, often referred to 166 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: as the Star Wars program derisively. Yeah, I've really wanted 167 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: to do a full episode about this, to really explain 168 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: what the concept was, what the motivations were, because this 169 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: is this ends up being a very political, uh, a 170 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: very political story, not just a technology story. In fact, 171 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: it's more political than technological in many ways. The whole 172 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: strategic defense initiative was fueled by the Cold War between 173 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: the United States and the then Soviet Union, and the 174 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: idea was that if you have a system in place 175 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: that can block any incoming missile attack, then your country 176 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: is going to be at an advantage and be safe 177 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: from aggression. Uh. This was during an era that we'll 178 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: talk about very shortly, the whole idea of mutually assured destruction, 179 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: but we'll get to that in a little bit. So 180 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: very similar idea. Yeah. There's another idea that's a lot 181 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: like this, which is actually in use today, Israel's Iron 182 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: Dome system. Have you read about this has been in 183 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: the news lately. Yeah, it went into effect in two 184 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: thousand leven. This is an anti rocket defense system, so 185 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: it's meant to intercept rockets that are fired from outside 186 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: of Israel. Into Israel, and it does this by firing 187 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: off interceptor missiles. They're called tamire surface to air missiles. 188 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: And you've got a radar system that first to texts 189 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: an incoming rocket, and then you have computers running predictive 190 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: software that will look at the pathway of the rocket, 191 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: predict which way it's going, and then send an interceptor 192 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: missile to destroy that rocket before it reaches its intended target. 193 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: It's even supposed to only focus on rockets that are 194 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: aimed at populated areas, So if a rocket were to 195 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: be aimed at an open area where there's not likely 196 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: anyone to be harmed, it won't target that rocket. The 197 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: reason being that interceptor missiles are expensive. We're talking like, sure, 198 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: just shy of a hundred thousand dollars a pop. So 199 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: also I'm imagining that this is him at large must 200 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: just be incredibly expensive and complicated, because if it's actually 201 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: able to calculate the trajectory of an incoming rocket to 202 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: figure out whether it needs to intercept or not, I 203 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: mean wow. And there's been some criticism of the system. 204 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: One is based on just a skepticism that it's really effective. 205 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: The idea being that it's possible that in a display 206 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: of its effectiveness when because just recently there was a 207 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: news story where the system was able to shoot down 208 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: fifteen different incoming rockets that were fired simultaneously. Uh, and 209 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: that that's really impressive. But there's some critics who suggest 210 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: it's kind of in a conspiracy theory way, that it 211 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: could just be the is the Israeli government firing off 212 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: the interceptor missiles and then having them detonate because you 213 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: can't see these rockets with the naked eye when they're 214 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: flying through the air. They're they're too small for you 215 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: to notice, and they fly too high for you to notice. 216 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: So it's possible that you could detonate in receptor missiles 217 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: then uh, and then say, oh, that's a successful interception. 218 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go so far as to say 219 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: that that conspiracy theory holds merit. I more inclined to 220 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: believe that this is in fact an actual demonstration of 221 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: it working. Um. But there are also critics who say 222 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: it gives any system that's like this, whether it's the 223 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: Strategic Defense Initiative or the Iron Dome initiative, it can 224 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: create an unhealthy political environment, meaning that if you have 225 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: this kind of technology at your disposal, you may feel 226 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: that you are to some degree invulnerable. It's weird to 227 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: say to some degree, but at any rate that you 228 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: are largely invulnerable to incoming attack, which some argue means 229 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: that you have less of of an incentive to pursue peace. Well, yeah, 230 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: if we want to transition to the next item on 231 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: our list here, some people might say that it's very 232 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: important that we all feel vulnerable in order to maintain peace. Yeah. Yeah, 233 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: this is where we get into the idea of mutually 234 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: assured destruction. So this is, uh, it doesn't have a 235 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: very friendly name, but believe it or not, for the 236 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: past century, there have been a lot of people who 237 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: thought that this was one of the best technological routes 238 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: to world peace. Yeah, and in fact, this is this 239 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: is kind of piggybacked onto Tesla's idea, right, the idea 240 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: that if you are in possession of enough firepower of 241 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: whatever sort, that that's enough to to deter people or 242 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: other countries from attacking you. This ends up being repeated 243 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: over and over again up and up through the Cold 244 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: War and before the Cold War or the Cold War. 245 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: Really yeah, Hiron Maxim, who invented the machine gun, said 246 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: this device is going to end all war because it's 247 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: so dangerous that no one would dare attack. Yeah, and 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: that ended up being very much wrong, especially in the 249 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: whole story of World War One and World War Two. 250 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: Certainly proves that Orville right believe that the airplane would 251 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: end war. The airplane would be such an incredibly superior 252 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: are your vehicle that there'd be no reason to ever 253 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: declare war for fear of what would rain down upon you. Obviously, 254 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: that became a very important tool in war. In fact, 255 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: I think there are some people who would look at 256 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: those two examples you just cited and say that those 257 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: might have been some of the leading causes of World 258 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: War One obvious at least the leading tools. Well, I 259 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: mean causes in the sense that obviously there was a 260 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: lot of international political tension. I mean, does anybody really 261 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: know what caused World War One? I think it's a 262 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: lot of confusion, But uh, certainly an opinion that I've 263 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: heard before, and I don't know enough to dismiss it 264 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: out of hand, is to say that a major factor 265 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: in what led to World War One was the acquiring 266 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: of new warmaking technology and people building up their military 267 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: stockpiles and basically looking for a way to test this 268 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: new stuff out. Well, that's part of it. I mean, 269 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, you had 270 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: all these different countries in Europe, including Germany, which had 271 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: just formed as an actual country tree I mean odd 272 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: people forget that Germany as a unified country didn't really 273 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: exist until the mid nineteenth century. Uh, you know it, 274 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: since it had previously been part of of various empires. 275 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: These different countries were all trying to make sure they 276 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: cemented their stability, that they made sure they were safe 277 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: from other nations, which meant investing in militaries. For Germany 278 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: and for the United Kingdom that was largely naval, they 279 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: were investing heavily in their navies. Um. But what it 280 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: what it also meant was that you had these these 281 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful armies around Europe that were ready to go 282 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: at any moment with no particular opponent. But you also 283 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: have these incredibly complex treaties between countries, so when there 284 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: would be a precipitating event, it wasn't in at least 285 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: in hindsight, it wasn't a huge surprise to see it. 286 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: Kind of escalate into the major conflict that Kane. Well, 287 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: just that historical onion headline about World War One. I 288 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: think it's something like war declared by all. It's a 289 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: that's fairly accurate. I mean, it certainly didn't all happen simultaneously, 290 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: but it it's again, in hindsight, you can totally see 291 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: how it happened. But at the time, I'm sure people 292 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: just thought it was it was unimaginable, but that that 293 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: philosophy continued beyond World War One. Yeah. Well, so it's 294 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: quite obvious that machine guns and airplanes have not made 295 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: war obsoletely, but there's a more questionable proposal, which is 296 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: that maybe nuclear weapons have. Yeah. Alright, so you've heard 297 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: of the The scientist Edward Teller is born in Hungary 298 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: and uh immigrated to the United States, and he had 299 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: this to say about scientists in general, which was, the 300 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: scientist is not responsible for the laws of nature. It 301 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: is his job to find doubt how these laws operate. 302 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Is the scientist's job to find the ways in which 303 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: these laws can serve the human will. However, it is 304 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: not the scientist's job to determine whether a hydrogen bomb 305 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: should be constructed, whether it should be used or how 306 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: it should be used. Now, the reason he said that 307 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: was that he worked on the Manhattan Project, all right, 308 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: he was one of the science In fact, he was 309 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: one of the three scientists who convinced Albert Einstein that 310 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: he should tell the President about the powers of nuclear fission, 311 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: which then of the United States. The President United States Yes, 312 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: in order to precipitate the development of the atomic bomb. 313 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: And then there became another discussion within the same group 314 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: of the Manhattan Project about the development of what they 315 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: were calling a superbomb, a thermonuclear weapon, and Teller was 316 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: very much on the side of we should make this thing. 317 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: This this is something we should invest in. Uh. And 318 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: then there were other scientists like Oppenheimer, who said this 319 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: is a bad idea, we should not do this thing. 320 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: And there was a lot of disagreement, which led to 321 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: some pretty controversial stuff down the line. But at any rate, 322 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: you had Teller advocating for this. Now, why did he 323 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: had the cap for this? Well, he grew up in 324 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: Europe during a very tumultuous time and developed a distinct 325 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: dislike for fascism and communism before leaving to come to America. Yeah, 326 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: he saw Europe being torn apart. I mean it was 327 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: already uh, it had already gone through World War One 328 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: and was entering World War two, or was about to 329 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: enter World War two by the time he was leaving, 330 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: and things just got worse from there. So in his mind, 331 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: one of the worst things in the world was the 332 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: formation of the Soviet Union. He saw communism as being 333 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: probably the greatest danger to the human race, and his 334 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: argument was that if we don't pursue this sort of 335 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: weapons program, this arms race, the Soviet Union certainly will. 336 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: So if we don't do it, we're gonna be left 337 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: behind and we'll be vulnerable. The only way to ensure 338 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: that we're safe is to also engage in an arms race, 339 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: to develop these incredibly destructive weapons and thus be a 340 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: big enough threat where the Soviet Union would never attack us. 341 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we would surely never attack anyone else unprovoked. 342 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: So this is just for us to make sure that 343 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: they don't attack us. That was the That was the 344 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: general philosophy. So build up your arms to the point 345 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: where you would be such a destructive force that it 346 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: would be crazy to attack you, which is again very 347 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: similar to what we've already talked about right. So now 348 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: we have gigantic nuclear stockpiles on Earth, yes, as a 349 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: result of this doctrine. But this is this is interesting 350 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: because I feel like, while on one hand, it's not 351 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: a very friendly sounding doctrine, some people might still argue 352 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: for the wisdom of mad Well, it's there. I mean, 353 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: there would be a lot of people. I think it 354 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: is completely wrong to say that it would make war obsolete. 355 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean, there have been tons of wars since nuclear 356 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: weapons were invented, you know, involving nuclear powers. But it's 357 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: some people I think might still say that, well, maybe 358 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: the presence of all these nuclear weapons did prevent all 359 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: out war between say the United States and the Soviet Union. 360 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: We just have to keep in mind that there have 361 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: been tons of proxy wars throughout the years, fought by 362 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: these powers sort of through other countries. And sure so, 363 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: so essentially what you're saying is the existence of thermonuclear 364 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: weapons has prevented a thermonuclear war. That without the existence 365 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: of these thermonuclear weapons in one or other of the parties, 366 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: the possibility of thermonuclear war rises. But because you have 367 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: this this balance where you have people, you know, who 368 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: realized what the implications of starting such a war would 369 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: be it hasn't happened. Yeah, even if you were to 370 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: agree with this idea, you might not necessarily think it's 371 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: good for the world as a whole. It might be 372 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: better for the people living in the United States and 373 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,959 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and not so much for their allies. Uh. 374 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: But I'm not even saying I agree with this. I 375 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: just wanted to say, well, this is one that we 376 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: can't put it in the totally ridiculous camp because I 377 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: think there are still people who think that mutually assured 378 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: destruction had some kind of effectiveness. Now, this has also 379 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: led to the very popular trope of creating a doomsday 380 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: device that is so dangerous that that's what protects you 381 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: from attack, right right. The idea of a fail deadly 382 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: device as depicted in the movie Doctor Strangelove, which how 383 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: how would something like a fail deadly device work? Well, 384 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: Doctor strange Love. The way it works is that it's 385 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: a device that, once initiated, cannot be canceled and and 386 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: and Dr Strangelove. It's it's the Soviet Union that has 387 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: built a device that will automatically activate if any sort 388 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: of oncoming attack, bombing attack were to target the Soviet 389 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: Union and wants it detects such an attack, it then 390 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: initiates this device, which is you can't turn it off, 391 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: and it's designed to kill essentially everything. It's automatic. Yeah, 392 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: and because you can't turn it off, then the ideas 393 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: that's the perfect deterrent, because you just tell everyone, hey, 394 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: if you attack us, this thing goes on. It kills everybody, 395 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: and we can't stop it. We even if we want to, 396 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: we cannot stop this thing. And uh, the the main 397 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: character or the title character of the movie, Dr Strangelove, 398 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: he's not the main character, but he is the title character, 399 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: points out that this particular kind of device is only 400 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: useful if the world knows about it, if it's secret, 401 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: as it is in the movie. But then it turns 402 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: out like the Russian and the Russian Inveastador was like, well, 403 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: we're going to have a big event next week, unfortunately 404 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: forgotten type of thing. And uh, supposedly Dr Strangelove himself 405 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: was based off of Teller. Yeah, that's the that's the rumor. 406 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: Although whether or not that's true, I do not know, 407 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: but it's um, it's certainly interesting that, uh, you know 408 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: this this kind of idea has filtered into the fiction 409 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: as well as into reality. This is also what fed 410 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: into that Star Wars program we talked about earlier, the 411 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: idea that, well, if the Soviet Union also has these major, 412 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: massive weapons and we have these massive weapons, do we 413 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: really feel comfortable that just the presence of those weapons 414 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: is enough to deter a thermonuclear war? What if we 415 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: could end up creating a system that would shoot down 416 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: enemy weapons so that we remained safe. And that was 417 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: what really led to this, that strategic defense initiative. And 418 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: tell her was a major opponent for that. He he 419 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: really wanted to see this enacted. Uh. Ultimately, that technology 420 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: did not prove to be very reliable and it didn't 421 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: really seem like it would actually do what it was 422 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: supposed to do. Um at the time. We probably could 423 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: develop much better technology now, but it's a very different 424 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: world now because the Cold War is over. Sure, So 425 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: even if we accept that, Okay, what if we believe 426 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: that mutually shared destruction prevented all out nuclear war between 427 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: the United States and the Soviet Union, it still didn't 428 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: prevent all kinds of other smaller wars during that time period. 429 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: And we can't say that it will necessarily always work 430 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: in the future. I mean, it's something that depends on 431 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: everybody being sort of rational and self interested, and on 432 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: your technology being reliable and not breaking and not just 433 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: There are a lot of contingencies that go into this 434 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: being a good strategy for avoiding major warfare, right, Not 435 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: mistaking a flock of geese for incoming missile attack that 436 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: kind right. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you could argue that 437 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: saying mutually assured destruction is the reason we haven't had 438 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: a nuclear war is equivalent to saying, hey, I've got 439 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: this magic rock that keeps tigers away. Do you see 440 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: any tigers here that proves it works? Right? I meant, yeah, 441 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: So we don't want to just be doom and gloom here. 442 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's so let's stop talking about weapons and 443 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: look at other ways technology could in fact prevent all 444 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: war in the future and lead to a happy, peaceful 445 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: flower time. Yeah. This is more of the idealistic version 446 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: of people who came up with technologies and and the 447 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: their reasoning behind why they thought the technology they had 448 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: either developed or advocated for would end war. And one 449 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: of them goes back to uh a fellow named Mark Coni. 450 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: You know, he didn't just play the momba. No, he 451 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: did not listen to the radio. UD listen to the radio. 452 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: He made the radio make noise. Uh so Marconi often 453 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: credited as the inventor of the radio. Can you pronounce 454 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: his first name? Can I? I could try Googli Elmo, Googli, 455 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: Googli Elmo. Yeah, I would say, but my my, sorry, 456 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 1: I imagine Elmo from Sesame Street, but with googly eyes. 457 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: My my. Italian is worse than any of the other 458 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: foreign languages I don't speak. It's probably the worst out 459 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: of all of them. Well, Greek is maybe worse. Please 460 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: enjoy our ignorance at any rate. Yeah, so Marconi, who 461 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: is credited as the inventor of the radio. I know 462 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: the Tesla fans out there are up in arms, and 463 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: I agree. Marconi used a lot of Tesla's patents, according 464 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: to Tesla's like, he's a good fellow. He's using seventeen 465 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: of my patents. But but he is the first person 466 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: to transmit a an encoded letter in Morse code across 467 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, and that's why he is often referred to 468 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: as the inventor of the radio. So he's into wireless 469 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: very much. So. He believed that we were going to 470 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: enter a wireless age where we wouldn't just have wireless communication, 471 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: we'd have wire a less power, which goes back to 472 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: what Tesla believed to He was very much an advocate 473 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: for that as well. But he also thought we'd have 474 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: wireless commerce and wireless fertilization. I don't know what that means, 475 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: but yeah. There was an article where a reporter had 476 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: interviewed Marconi's in a Technical World magazine in October nineteen twelve. Yeah, 477 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: so this way back in nineteen twelve, and and Marconi 478 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: was kind of just thinking out loud about the possibilities 479 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: of the future. I mean, think about this. This is 480 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: an era where we just had really mastered the the 481 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: harnessing of electromagnetic radiation for the purposes of communication. It 482 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: seemed to at this point like anything could potentially be possible. Well, 483 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: and let's go right ahead and say it. I believe 484 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: radio certainly did change the world absolutely. I mean it 485 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: changed the world even you would say changed the world 486 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: almost definitely for the better in lots and lots of ways. 487 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: But when he says, quote, the coming of the wireless 488 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: era will make war impossible, because it will make war ridiculous. Yeah, 489 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: it turned out a little bit wrong. Now, I greatly 490 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: admire the reason behind what he said, you know, because 491 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: it now grant it assumes that people will try to 492 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: comport themselves with compassion and rationality and also let go 493 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: of things that are culturally ingrained for generations, sometimes millennia 494 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 1: in some areas, and that is a lot to ask for. 495 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: But his idea was that this wireless era would result 496 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: in a world where we are able to understand one 497 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: another and communicate with one another so freely that we 498 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: would end up resolving disagreements before it would ever get 499 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: to a point where warfare would even be a consideration. 500 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to say this about someone 501 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: who's obviously a brilliant man, much smarter than me. But 502 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: that's so naive, it is, it's but it's so sweet 503 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: you want it to be true. Yeah, the the idea that, well, 504 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: maybe we're just having lack of communication. Yeah, we're not 505 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: getting through to each other. But if we have wireless 506 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: radio going from every country to every other country, we 507 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: can just talk it out. Now. The truly ironic part 508 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: of this is that radio would play an instrumental role 509 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: in warfare. Everything from communication to radar and all sorts 510 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: of other applications. I mean, not to mention just stoking 511 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: anger around the world with talk radio hosts. Yeah, well, 512 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: propaganda is a huge part of it. I mean, and 513 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: in fact, propaganda, you could argue, would be the opposite 514 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: of what Marconi was envisioning, instead of it being this 515 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of nationalistic approach where you know, it's it's a 516 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: very simple US versus them story where you make us 517 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: as as noble as possible and them as evil and 518 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: wicked as possible in your in your narrative. I mean, 519 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: that's hell, that's that's probably. It seems to me exactly 520 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: the opposite of what Marconi's idealistic vision of the future 521 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: would have been. He also thought with this wireless age 522 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: that we would probably have more access to resources than 523 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: we do now, which would help alleviate the reasons for 524 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: going to war in the first place, not just communication 525 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: but resources. Well, he's not the only person in history. 526 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: In fact, he's not the only famous, brilliant person in 527 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: history to have predicted that changes in access to resources 528 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: would be able to obviate the need for war. I mean, 529 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: there is an idea that Okay, at least a large 530 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: number of the struggles that we experience in our lives 531 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: are over resources. We need food, we need water, we 532 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: need space and shelter, and so we are I mean, 533 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: life is a struggle. We are competing for things that 534 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: we need. I wonder how much you can really chalk 535 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: war up to this. But let's take a look at 536 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: somebody who thought that you basically could. So you're talking 537 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: about the chemist Pierre Yogene Mascelen Bertel Yeah, Bertolo say 538 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: important chemist, very important chemist, brilliant man, absolutely brilliant man. 539 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: And uh he had some pretty pretty amazing things, some 540 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: amazing predictions that he made. He was also interviewed for 541 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: a magazine article. This was in McClure's magazine in September 542 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: eight and the article was titled Foods in the year 543 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: two thousand Professor Bernelow's theory that chemistry will displace agriculture. Now, 544 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: some of his predictions in here, while they haven't exactly 545 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: come true, are kind of perceptive of some of the 546 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: food innovations we might see coming down the road. I mean, 547 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: obviously not by the year two thousand, but still on 548 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: the way, and not not not solely through chemistry, which 549 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: was his his vision. He was we now have lab 550 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: grown beef. Absolutely yes. So he was looking at the 551 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: world through the eyes of a chemist. And this is 552 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: right of the era where synthesizing chemicals was starting to 553 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: really become, uh, you know, an amazing industry. And he 554 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: foresaw an era where we be able to synthesize organic 555 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: compounds as easily as anything else, to the point where 556 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: we could synthesize in the lab anything. We could synthesize meat, 557 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: we could synthesize vegetables, we could synthesize alcohol and tobacco. 558 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: And his idea was that once we get to this world, 559 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: which he thought would be around the year two thousand. 560 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: I've got more of his quote in a second that 561 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: um will will really kind of pull in his idea 562 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: of why this would change the world. He was sure 563 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: that this kind of development would mean that one you 564 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: would end up eliminating a lot of the problems of 565 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: the world because you would have a surplus of resources, 566 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: no longer scarcity, which would be a good thing on 567 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: its own, of course. And keep in mind this is 568 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century Europe, a time when there were some 569 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: serious famines going on around Europe that were leading to 570 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: lots of of strife, and so hunger was definitely one 571 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: of the big motivators. And he thought, well, if you 572 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: can eliminate hunger, you've eliminated a large reason why countries 573 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: go to war. Take care of that resources problem. He 574 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: also thought that we would develop food that is so 575 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: delicious and nutritious and edifying that it would improve the 576 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: moral nature of mankind itself. So in other words, you 577 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: would eat this food and you would become a better person, 578 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: and that would also help lead to the end divorce. 579 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: So not only would we have a surplus of resources, 580 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: but we'd be better people, and therefore we would not 581 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: go to war because we would have compassion for our 582 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: fellow men, which is again an interesting concept. Uh, the 583 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: idea that you know, make sure you get your your 584 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: fruits and vegim otherwise you'll go to war with Spain. 585 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of well, there were a lot 586 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: of weird ideas floating around at the time about how 587 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: nutrition like created the personality of a nation and stuff 588 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, they thought weird stuff in Europe in 589 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. This is true. Here is one of 590 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: his longer quotes, and I think it's absolutely charming. Again, 591 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: you probably would have to chalk this up as being naive, 592 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: but still very charming. Man should grow in sweetness and 593 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: nobility because he will have done with war, with existence 594 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: based upon the slaughter of beasts. Perhaps this is only 595 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: a dream. Remember, synthetic chemistry, or something that we might 596 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: call spiritual chemistry, will develop means to as profoundly alter 597 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: man's moral nature as material chemistry will change the conditions 598 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: of his environment. There is no fear that art, beauty, 599 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: and the charm of human existence are destined to just appear. 600 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: If the surface of the earth ceases to be divided 601 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: and i may say disfigured by the geometrical devices of agriculture, 602 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: it will regain its natural verdure of woods and flowers. 603 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: Man becoming familiar with the principles and responsibilities of self 604 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: government will be more easily governed. The favored portions of 605 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 1: the earth will become vast gardens in which the human 606 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: race will dwell amid a peace, a luxury, and an abundance, 607 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: recalling the golden age of legendary lore. These are dreams, 608 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: of course, but science may surely be permitted to dreams. 609 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes if it were not for our dreams, where would 610 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: it be our impulse to progress, which I think is 611 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: a beautiful thought. Yeah, sure, I I wish it had 612 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: turned out that way. Yeah. Well, I mean this is 613 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: like Tesla's case. This is one where we haven't actually 614 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: achieved the technological advance that he says is required to 615 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 1: bring about this future. So unlike mutually assured destruction or 616 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: unlike wireless radio, it's not one we can look at 617 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: and say, well, the technology is here, and your prediction 618 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: fell flat. The technology is just not here yet, and 619 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: maybe it never will be so well yeah, and even 620 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: if it does get here, and even if we get 621 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: to a point where it's incredibly nutritious, I think this, 622 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: this moral improvement is probably based upon more nineteenth century 623 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: philosophy than than our current understanding. Also, you know, unless 624 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: you just take it off the menu, you're not gonna 625 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: stop me from eating some of the horrible, horrible food 626 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: I love. The other thing I would say about this is, obviously, 627 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,959 Speaker 1: at the ground level, the struggle over resources does matter 628 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: very much. But we're talking about war here, and we're 629 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: talking about nations mobilizing vast organized forces and superior weaponry. 630 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, at that level, how many wars are started 631 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: by people who aren't getting enough to eat? Yeah, a 632 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: lot of those. A lot of reasons for war are 633 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: outside of resources. Resources often play a very important part, 634 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure, but there they might be resources beyond 635 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: what we need to survive and be healthy, you know, 636 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: we might. I can see a world where everybody has 637 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: complete access to nutritious pills that are delicious and fill 638 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: you with happiness and butterflies and all that, and and 639 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: that would be a great thing in itself. But I 640 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: still can see in that world people going to war 641 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: over other things, over boundaries of national territory, over ideologies 642 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: certainly whether religious or or over ethnic division, and just hatred. 643 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there are lots of reasons that people do 644 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: the horrible thing we call war, and not all of 645 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: them have to do with competing for resources, right, There 646 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: are a lot of other fundamental issues that would have 647 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: to be addressed, and this particular approach would not necessarily 648 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: address us. So how do we get to a point 649 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: where we're able to get a different perspective, be able 650 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: to to expand our minds and and see what's really important? 651 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, what does it take? Maybe once we colonized space, 652 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: Does this sidmire civilization? Is that what we're doing now? No, No, 653 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: I want to tap into one more idea here. And 654 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: this isn't so much a specific prediction of one person, 655 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: but there's a general idea that's been propagated by several people, 656 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: including some former astronauts, known as the overview effect. Now, 657 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: that was coined by Frank White, right, that particular term. Yeah, 658 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh So. The idea is when astronauts go 659 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: up into say the International Space Station, or to a 660 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: space capsule, or orbiting the Earth and traveling to the moon, 661 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: whatever it is, and they look back down on the Earth. 662 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: It's striking that many astronauts have independently report did this 663 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: feeling of euphoria and connectedness and togetherness with all of humanity, 664 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: where national boundaries seem to fade away and the idea 665 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: of human strife suddenly seems very ridiculous and points because 666 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: we're all in it together, right. I mean, it's when 667 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: you're from that distance and you see that everybody, every 668 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: single human being that is alive, with the exception of 669 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: less than a dozen people, are in your field of view, 670 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: right then, because they're all on that planet. It's hard 671 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: to say that, you know, why are why are their divisions? 672 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: I mean, why aren't they're more? Why isn't there more 673 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,720 Speaker 1: of a connectiveness? Were clearly all in the same place. 674 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: We're all on this one planet. This is also where 675 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: you get this idea that a lot of astronauts report 676 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: feeling that the world is is ultimately a acentual place. 677 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: It's this tiny blue spec the tiny blue dot that 678 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, you heard Carl Sagan talk about another phrase 679 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: you often here, hanging in space. I mean it is it. 680 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: It's it's floating out there, just vulnerable to the universe, 681 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: and this is where we all have to live, and 682 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: that this results in this cognitive shift, that that is 683 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: a phrase that's come up, cognitive shift because it's not 684 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: just reported as a sort of momentary feeling of euphoria revelation, 685 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: but something that stays with astronauts after they return to Earth. 686 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: And so if it really does happen to to everybody. Now, 687 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: obviously not all astronauts have talked about this, but not 688 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: all astronauts have been asked about it, So it may 689 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: very well be that this is a universal or near 690 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: universal experience. But some have chosen to talk about and 691 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: some may not have right now. Sure, yeah, so we 692 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: don't know yet, but the fact that so many of 693 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: them experience this does make someone wonder, well, if we 694 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: become a space faring species and everybody can have that 695 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: profound moment of looking back at the Earth and realizing 696 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,320 Speaker 1: the togetherness that we really must feel in the face 697 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: of the vast universe that wants to kill us all, 698 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: then maybe it would become widespread enough in humanity that 699 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: war just couldn't happen anymore. Yeah. That's a tough solution, right, 700 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: getting a lot of people, I mean we're talking. I 701 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: like the idea of it. I mean, if you if 702 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: you narrow it down to say, let's get the people 703 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: who would be the ones responsible for waging war in 704 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: the first place, like the ones who would be the 705 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: ones to initiate war, take all the executives in generals 706 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: and everybody up into space, then maybe that's a little 707 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: more mageable than say everybody. Um. Yeah, this is one 708 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: of those things where I don't doubt that there is 709 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: a really profound moment that a person experiences when they 710 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 1: are able to look back on the Earth and see 711 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: it as this hanging globe in space. I don't doubt 712 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: it at all. I wish I could experience it. It's 713 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: one of those things that I think would really mean 714 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: a lot to me personally. But because I seriously doubt 715 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 1: that this is ever going to become something within the 716 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: near future anyway that the average person or even the 717 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote important people would be able to do, it's 718 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: it's one that I fear is moot in this discussion, 719 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 1: at least for you know, the the near future, like 720 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: the next twenty to fifty years. Um, maybe I'm wrong, 721 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 1: which would be the best That would be the best 722 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,800 Speaker 1: mistake I ever made. I would love to be wrong 723 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: about that. Well. I mean, as with what we were 724 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: just talking about with Berna Low having widespread nutritious food, 725 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: this is something that would be good in its own right, 726 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: and we can see reasons that it would be great 727 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: to get lots of people into space for exploration and 728 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: scientific discovery, even if it didn't cause this. So I mean, 729 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: if this is a side effect of something that would 730 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 1: be good anyway, that that's a sort of double plus, 731 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: unlike something like mutually issued destruction, where you're just hoping 732 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: it works out and it's not a side effect of 733 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: something that's nice. Yeah, so Joe, what if, um, what 734 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: if during this era of space exploration, the astronauts go up, 735 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: they look back on Earth, they have this profound moment, 736 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: they go to Mars and then declare war on each 737 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,879 Speaker 1: other because they're like, this is Mars. It's totally different. Well, 738 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: and it's Mars, the planet of war. Yeah, it's it's 739 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: it's it's a named Mars Mars. I think it was 740 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: the Mars bar Candy Company if I'm not mistaken. You know, 741 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: I have a need to renew their contract with NASA 742 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: or it's gonna expire and become the Snickers planet. Yeah. 743 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven research that. I mean, I know 744 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: Disney Disney name Pluto, so um yeah, I don't know. 745 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: I have to they did not. Okay, look this is stopformation. 746 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: This isn't stuff to blow your mind. I don't know science. No, no, obviously, 747 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm just having a little goofy fun here. But 748 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: this is really like, on one hand, you could say 749 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: we're kind of bumming everybody out because we're talking about 750 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: these technologies that were meant to end war but have 751 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: it and at least in a couple of cases, the 752 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: jury could still be out. But I like to think 753 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: of it as there's no reason why we can't truly 754 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:47,720 Speaker 1: examine the the concept of war and really work towards 755 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: eliminating it, whether technologically or otherwise. I think probably otherwise, 756 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: because a lot of the technological solutions pretty much end 757 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 1: up with, well, we won't have war because we'll wipe 758 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: everybody out. Yeah, I mean, there are also plenty of 759 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: doomsday science fiction scenarios about that. Right, you create the 760 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,240 Speaker 1: perfect artificial intelligence that's super smart, it's super humanly smart, 761 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: and you asked the computer, you say, I want you 762 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: to end all war on Earth, and the computer then 763 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: runs through all the various scenarios and says that the 764 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: most realistic one is to wipe out all of humanity. 765 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,800 Speaker 1: Therefore you cannot have war anymore. And then the humans go, whoops, 766 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: that's not a great it's not a great outcome. So 767 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: but you know, I am, I am a peaceful kind 768 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: of person myself. I really hope that that we continue. 769 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: I like the optimism and the idealism, even if it 770 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: does border on the naive. It appeals to me that 771 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,399 Speaker 1: people who are really sincere in that and who really 772 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: uh pursue that are also these folks who are far 773 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: more intelligent than I am. I mean not one of 774 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: these people is a dummy. No, they're all like absolutely brilliant. 775 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: I mean they're their discoveries, their contributions to science. You know, 776 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: I talk about Teller and his he's often called the 777 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 1: father the hydrogen bomb. He made so many different contributions 778 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: to science that have nothing to do with war, but 779 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: that's what he's known for. But all of these people 780 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: had made amazing contributions to the world knowledge and too 781 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: technology and science. And so I certainly hope that we 782 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: see more idealistic innovators out there. Uh Like I feel 783 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: that that. Uh In some ways, Musk comes across as 784 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: that he Elon Musk. He's certainly also an entrepreneur, but 785 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: he does seem to genuinely believe in a lot of 786 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: the idealistic things he talks. Well, he's one of those 787 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: big thinkers, he is. He's certainly he's certainly more intelligent 788 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: than I am as well. I have no problems. Don't 789 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: mean like he has a big brain. I mean like 790 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: he has big projects. He's he's willing to take on 791 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: things that might see ridiculous at first glance. And I 792 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: think it's good to have people like that absolutely, because 793 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: even when we say this on forward thinking all the time, 794 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,879 Speaker 1: even if you fail in your efforts, along the way, 795 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: you learn and by learning probably going to be useful 796 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: to somebody down. Yeah, and of course there are scientists 797 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,919 Speaker 1: who say you learn more by failing than you ever 798 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: do by succeeding. If you succeed, all you do is 799 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: confirm something you thought. If you fail, you realize you're 800 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: wrong and you have to learn something else. So that's 801 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,360 Speaker 1: kind of an interesting perspective as well. Well. Joe, thank 802 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today and thank you 803 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: for the amazing concept here. This was a lot of 804 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: fun to talk about what it was much pleasure. I 805 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: appreciate it, and I'll probably be asking you on again 806 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,880 Speaker 1: in the future. I'd love to be back. Meanwhile, you 807 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,360 Speaker 1: can hear us chatter about all sorts of futuristic stuff. 808 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: I'll run forward thinking, so definitely go do that. And 809 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,760 Speaker 1: for those of you who have any suggestions about future 810 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: topics for tech stuff, make sure you let me know. 811 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: Send me an email. My address is tech stuff at 812 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,799 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, or drop me a line 813 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,439 Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter or Tumbler. We handle at all three 814 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: is Tex stuff hs W, and I'll talk to you 815 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:11,560 Speaker 1: again really soon for more on this and thousands of 816 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: other topics because it has stuff works dot com