1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. LA is expansive. There's nearly ten million 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: people living here and it comes with a lot of noise, 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: but if you tune those sounds out and listen close, 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: you'll hear the real LA. What a be marggim I'm 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: going to be a father? Yes, You're feeling This a 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: fiction podcast mixtape about love. Listen to it on the 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: This is the unbelievable but true story of George Ramis. 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: He was an eccentric and genius lawyer who figured out 28 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: how to game the system during Prohibition. Ramis is the 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: biggest man in the business, but George Ramis's wild existence 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: took a dark and shocking turn, leading to betrayal, revenge, 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: and one of the most sensational murder trials in American history. 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Listen to Remus the Mad Bootleg King every Tuesday on 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 34 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: When asked about being on the witness stand, a guest, 35 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: her son Wagner, with tears in her eyes, said, this 36 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: is not easy for me. It rips my heart out. 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: Apparently George or Jake when here having nightmares and George 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: had become a different person, and she brought that up 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: to Billy and Billy apparently told her, I don't know 40 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: why George is having any trouble. He didn't shoot anybody. 41 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: She asked Billy, why so many? He told her because 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: they were there. Billy apparently is a Dounesday prepper. Now 43 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: at the fact that you've now murdered a people and 44 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: you're on the lamb, and Billy was crazy, paranoid. I 45 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: had never in all the years I've been doing this, 46 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: ever seen a case where mother test to fight against shot. Well, 47 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: George's got held played now because he's one's own trial. 48 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: This is the Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County 49 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: season four, Episode twenty, Angela Wagner Takes the Stand, Part two. 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with 51 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that 52 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and has 53 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: maintained his innocence. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, 54 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. In the 55 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: previous episode, we left off with Angelo Wagner test flying 56 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: about the morning after Billie, Jake and George murdered eight 57 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: members of the Roden, Manly and Gilly families. Angela opted 58 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: out her testimony being recorded. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative 59 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: journalists from Cincinnati, now with Local twelve. She gets up 60 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: the next morning and Billy's there and Jake's outside, and 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: they turn on the news and it's already on the 62 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: news and they've identified possibly seven victims. They'm don Kenneth yet, 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: and according to her testimony, she looks at him and says, 64 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: why so many? And he turns to her and he says, 65 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: because they were there. He had already told her that 66 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: the plan was, whoever's there is gonna go. It's collateral damage. 67 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: They had their primary targets in mind, but anybody else 68 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: was gonna have to go too. We heard in Jake 69 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: Wagner's testimony about how their kill list expanded beyond Hanname 70 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: prior to the murders. Here's Angeinette Levy, investigative journalist and 71 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: host for the Long Crime Network. Billy said, well, you know, 72 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: if you kill her, you're gonna have to kill Chris 73 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: and Frankie because they will know who you did it 74 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: and they will come after you. So it was just 75 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: this insane like, oh, we're going to kill her, we 76 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: got to kill everybody else too, And just the way 77 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: that they came up with this, just thinking, oh, I 78 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: have no other choice but to drive up to Union 79 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: Hill Road on an April night and slaughter people. Some 80 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: of the people were killed, you know, they were only 81 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: killed because they were there. I mean, Hannah Hazel Gillie 82 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: was killed only because she was there. Chris Junior likely 83 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: killed only because he was there. Gary Rowden likely killed 84 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: just because he was there. Kenneth Roden, according to them, 85 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: killed because he was a strong guy, protective of his 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: family and he would know who did it and he 87 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: would come an exact revenge. I mean, so horrifying. According 88 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 1: to Angela's testimony, Billy directed the family to not speak 89 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: about the murders. She also confessed to her family agreeing 90 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: on an alibi to tell police that they were all 91 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: at home during the killings. The whole thing afterwards was 92 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: Billy telling her and telling the whole family, you cannot 93 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: talk about anything in front of anybody. To make sure 94 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: nobody finds out that it's us. They would write stuff 95 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: down on paper and walk out to the field and 96 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: the barn and burn it. The day after the murders, 97 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Billy gave Way a truck the Wagners used to get 98 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: to the Rodens households to his niece. According to Angela, 99 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: Jake was the first member of the family to speak 100 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: with law enforcement. She was nervous. The prosecutor asks Angela 101 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: if she thought they would get away with it. She 102 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: also said she didn't think they'd necessarily get away with this, 103 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: which I found interesting. In May of twenty seventeen, the 104 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: Wagners moved to Alaska. Here's Stephanie who was in the 105 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: courtroom during Angela Wagner's testimony. They decide they have to move, 106 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: so they go to Alaska, and Billy really didn't want 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: to move because Frederica was dead against it. She did 108 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: not want Billy moving with the family. In fact, she 109 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: had a private conversation with Angela saying that she would 110 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: pay Angela one thousand dollars a month if Billy didn't move. 111 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: They always wanted to go to Alaska. They felt like 112 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: the job prospects for better there, and they wanted to 113 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: get away from Illinois. They loved Alaska, and they sold 114 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: their house on Peterson Road. They didn't really have any 115 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: other place to go. According to Angela, Billy's father passed 116 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: away while they were in Alaska. Billy started to quote 117 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: lose it and began drinking a lot, becoming unstable. Everybody's 118 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: having a really weird transition. At that point. Billy apparently 119 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: is off the chain's paranoid and has always felt like 120 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: the TVs are listening and kind of rides that line 121 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: like so much so and why two K was happening 122 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: in the year two thousand. He had a bread truck 123 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: and they filled it with water and supplies and then 124 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: they buried it so that when Y two K happened 125 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: that they were prepared for that. So now add the 126 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: fact that you're on the lamb and you're trying to 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: get away with it. Billy was crazy, paranoid, but generally 128 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: speaking would only speak to everybody outside in like a driveway, 129 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: because he was afraid to be around the televisions. She said, quote, 130 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: I told him, I don't think we should have involved 131 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: them in the homicides, the planning, or any of it. 132 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: We should have not have done that. And what she 133 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: meant by that was apparently George or Jake when here 134 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: having nightmares and not sleeping well, and George had become 135 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: a different person, and she brought that up to Billy, 136 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: and Billy apparently told her, I don't know why George 137 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: is having any trouble. He didn't shoot anybody. Meanwhile, in Ohio, 138 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: law enforcement is gathering evidence that ties the Wagoners to 139 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: the murders. In May of twenty seventeen, the Wagoners are 140 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: intercepted at the Canadian border by BCI agents. The agents 141 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: asked Angela if she you have any custody agreements between 142 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah over custody of their shared daughter. At first, 143 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: Angela denied she knew anything. Here's a reminder of the 144 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: portion of their recordings taken of Angela Wagner when she's 145 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: interviewed by the BCI at the Canadian border. Are h okay, yeah, 146 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: I remember. You don't remember that The document appears to 147 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: be a custody agreement saying that in the event of 148 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin's death, that custody of her daughter would go 149 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: to Jake. It has Hannah's signature on the form. Detectives 150 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: tell Angela Wagner they found it at her home and 151 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: this is what we're curious about them, and then it 152 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: was do you know who that is? Your mom? So 153 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: your mom will arise U, I don't remember it. The 154 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: document appeared to be notarized by Angela's mother during the 155 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: same interview. At the Canadian Border, law enforcement also collected 156 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: a writing sample from Angela. Suddenly she's realizing that they're 157 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: looking into things very quickly. In her testimony, Angela details 158 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: would happen next she who basically flubbed that part of it, 159 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: and she was like kicking herself that this was like 160 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: the thing that she messed up. She's the one that 161 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: did the misstep. Here. Now they're like and they could 162 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: tell that she was lying and that the custody papers 163 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: were going to turn around and be a problem too. 164 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: So they get released. They go back and Rita newcome 165 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: person who's signature she just forged, and Billy had a 166 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: secret meeting in this laundry room with the dryer on 167 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: because they didn't want anybody to be able to hear them. 168 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: She basically has to confess to her mom that she 169 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: forged her name and that the police are kind of 170 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: looking into it, and you know, she felt very badly 171 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: about it, and that Rita volunteered to take the fall 172 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: for her just to say, no worries, I'll just say 173 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: it was my handwriting. So Rita apparently very willingly stepped 174 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: into it to take the fall. And then it wasn't 175 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: until much later that Angela found out that Rita in 176 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: fact had confessed and pled guilty far prior and was 177 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: actually working with authorities to get a wire tap or 178 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: some sort of recorded confession from one of the boys, 179 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: so she's actually working for the BCI. On the stand, 180 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: Angela testifies that she forged the custody documents while you're 181 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: admitute to forging the custody documents using her mother, Rita's 182 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: notary public stamp, so that her family would get Sophia 183 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: should Jake Orhanna be killed. Angela Wadner also testifies that 184 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: during the interview at the Canadian border, she knew law 185 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: enforcement was onto them. Here's Stephanie, she's doing this interview. 186 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: They've all been separated, and now she realizes, oh my goodness, 187 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: they have stuff on me, and she's not really prepared. 188 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: For some reason, she's ill prepared to answer the custody stuff. 189 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: She gives the writing sample, and then also there was 190 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: some receipts or something regarding the shoes that we know 191 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: she bought on surveillance and she didn't have a really 192 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: good answer for did you buy these shoes? Her answer 193 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: was no, I didn't get those shoes. And then they're like, oh, 194 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: really surprised here you are on surveillance And apparently she 195 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: changes her demeanor and it's evident in that interview also 196 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: how she can flip a switch a little bit. We 197 00:12:51,400 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: have a receipt flow shoes purchase fire so you remember 198 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: buying him. I've purchaed them that I am telling you. 199 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: They didn't like them, they wouldn't wear you know, they 200 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: wanted them her she do, I always wear hook you do. 201 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: I wought them and they don't. I don't know about that. 202 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: On the stand, Angela admits to buying the shoes that 203 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: love foot prints at one of the crime scenes. She 204 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: told jurors that she bought shoes at a Walmart for 205 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: her sons to wear the night of the murders while 206 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: George and Jake waited outside the store. But a key 207 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: moment was when she said that she talked about the 208 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: shoe prints with George and she said, they're telling us 209 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: there's two shoe prints there. And she said George told 210 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: her one of them was mine. I tried to smudge 211 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: it out and Dad said, no, don't worry about it. 212 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: We gotta go. Come on, and that's a Chris Roden 213 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: Senior's house. She obviously was caught right handed buying the shoes. 214 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: She doesn't remember seeing the boys put the shoes on, 215 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: but she remember saying them on the bag and after 216 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: the night of the murder, the wrong In June of 217 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, while the Wagners were living in Alaska, law 218 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: enforcement issued a press release that included photos of the 219 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: four Wagners and asked anyone with information about the road 220 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: and masker to contact the police. At this point in 221 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: the investigation, Angela is getting progressively more paranoid. Now on 222 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: the stand today, Angela Wagner admitted she's been a liar 223 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: and a thief, and she talked about the paranoia she 224 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: felt as investigators started closing in and asking her family questions. 225 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: In the spring of twenty eighteen, special agent Ryan Scheierer 226 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: sent a text to George Wagner with the photo that 227 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: allegedly showed Jake Wagner holding the twenty two coult nine 228 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: to eleven used in the homicides. They found that and 229 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: the picture of the gun in Jake's hand on the 230 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: backup of his phone that they got on the laptop 231 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: on the Montana border. The prosecution asked Angela about the photo. 232 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: Angela testifies that she didn't recognize the hand at first, 233 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: but then saw the thumb and thought that it looked 234 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: like Jake's. George Wagner, according to his mom, wanted to 235 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: confess long before his younger brother and his mother Angela 236 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: did so. And then also big piece of information. Apparently 237 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: George offered to take the fall for Angela and for 238 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: everyone that George gave the offer that he'll take a 239 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: blame for everybody, and she says, said, I couldn't do 240 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: that to him. We're going to take a break. We'll 241 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: be back in a moment. They say history is written 242 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: by the victors, but you know what they've left out 243 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: a hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Abe Lincoln's assassination. 244 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: Did you know a young couple was sitting right next 245 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: to him when he was shot. It haunted the husband 246 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: so much he later murdered his wife. Ah, we all 247 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: know who invented that, right, We'll think again. Truth is 248 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: Alexander M. Bell stole the idea for the telephone and 249 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: then claimed it as his own. For every pivotal moment 250 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: in history, there's always a backstory, and it's usually way 251 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: more interesting than the big story. From mysterious murders to 252 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: the baffling sleep schedules of yesteryear to the fascinating lives 253 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: of those just outside the limelight. Where going to uncover 254 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: the forgotten pieces of history you didn't know you need 255 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: it to know. Listen to the backstory with me Patty 256 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: Steeles twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts 257 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher 258 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called the girl Friends. Back 259 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of 260 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He 261 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 262 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 263 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted to the point she went unconscious. 264 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 265 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 266 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 267 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 268 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 269 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 270 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 271 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 272 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 273 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I hope nobody thinks I got 274 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: this story because I slept with the guy. So how 275 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: does a half American, half Nicaraguan party girl from New 276 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: Orleans with absolutely no journalism experience break the biggest story 277 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: of the eighties. That's what JOURNALI staff is all of it. 278 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm a woman not wearing a brawl curses like a sailor. 279 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: I got balls bigger than any man, and rather used 280 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: to call me his secret weapon. Blow gave me half 281 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: a pound of cocaine with a wedding. We work hard, 282 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: but we party even harder because you never knew it's 283 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: the next day's battle was going to be the one 284 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: that killed. We were up in the air. I heard 285 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: three somethings. I looked at one soldier and I said, 286 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: that's not a good sound. Is that no we're going dad, 287 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: And I said, what do you mean? We're going down? 288 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: And then we started to go down. Listen to Journalista 289 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 290 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: you get your podcast Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabo here, host 291 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 292 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, Like our ongoing 293 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 294 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: ranking system. Why not throw in a few extra zeros 295 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, learning 296 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: that I kind of have to start over. The tone 297 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: that you had throughout the debate was very similar to 298 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: some of the students that I do work with, and 299 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: that's what I teach them not to do. We're making 300 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: more revisionist history for you this year than ever from 301 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, 302 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 303 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: your thumb up like the US. Are you gonna pull 304 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: the trigger with this finger? Here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist 305 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 306 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. While the Wagners are living in Alaska, 307 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: Jake meets his new wife Elizabeth. When she took the stand, 308 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Armor discussed the alleged abuse, allegations that ultimately turned 309 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: out to be baseless. From Angelo Wagner's testimony, it did 310 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: not appear that she liked Elizabeth, and she didn't feel 311 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: comfortable ever really having Elizabeth alone with the granddaughter. Angela 312 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: did not like her, said she was quote weird, and 313 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: she didn't feel comfortable with her changing in front of 314 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: In fact, she made that kind of a mandate and 315 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: that basically it wasn't with Angela attached to her leg 316 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: then she was with Jake. There's one point in the 317 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: testimony where Angela Wagner says that her granddaughter told her 318 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: other grandmother, Rita Newcome, that Elizabeth had touched her. Angela 319 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: asked the toddler about it, and she allegedly responded no, no, no, 320 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: and took it back. Angela then told Jake, who tried 321 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: to speak with his daughter about it and later confronted 322 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: Elizabeth about the same. Angela was present during the confrontation. 323 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: Jake said that if what his daughter was saying was true, 324 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: he'd beat Elizabeth. Here's Stephanie here she is entering this world. 325 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: If Angela was home and Jake was at work, Elizabeth 326 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: would stay home in her room with the door locked, 327 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: but never alone would and then once in a blue 328 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: moon she would go for a walk, and Angela didn't 329 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: really know where she would go, but we've heard this. 330 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: Elizabeth was writing in her journal and would journal things 331 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: and then she would go out to the driveway out 332 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: front and burn it up, and it was kind of 333 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: her way of therapy, as it, Angela explains. So she 334 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: would write it down in the form of a letter 335 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: to her grandfather and then she would go out front 336 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: and burn it. And Angela after a while was like, 337 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: you cannot be burning things in the front driveway. So 338 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: she was very troubled by that. So one day Elizabeth 339 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: is going out and Angela goes into her room and 340 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: starts snooping through the stuff and finds the letter that 341 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: she had written about her in regards to Angela that 342 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: she hadn't gotten to burn yet. And she's saying this 343 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: so softly, like, ah, it's like a scary movie. It 344 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: legitimately is. She's just saying something sweet and innocent, like 345 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: she was just concerned because I mean, she can't have BCI, 346 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: thinking that they're destroying evidence in the front driveway. So 347 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: she finds like a one subject loose leaf finder and 348 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: it says, you know, dear granddaddy, but it seems like 349 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: a diary entry from a sixteen year old, you know, 350 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: and basically said that there's a lot of fighting in 351 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: the house and a lot of yelling in the house, 352 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: and it was disparaging about Angela in general, nothing super damning, 353 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: but just that it was stressful in there. And when 354 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: she saw that, she took a photograph of it, and 355 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: she took that photo and sent it to George. So 356 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: here they are so paranoid about the BCI, and they 357 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: know that there are cameras everywhere, and they assume that 358 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: their TVs are bugged and that their cars are bugged, 359 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: and that the phones are bugged. Yet Angela took a 360 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: photograph of this journal entry and send it via text 361 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: to George. And now we're seeing a picture of it 362 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: in the big screen at the trial. So she texts 363 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: this picture to George and George is very upset about it, 364 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: and then she tells Jake about it, and then Jake 365 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: is very upset about it. But she also thought that 366 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth was a plant. They thought maybe she was a 367 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: spy working for the BCI. She even says to Angie Kaneppa, 368 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: I don't know she could have been a plant working 369 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: for you, signaling to Angie Kaneppa. Angela testified that she 370 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: drew up a contract before Jake and Elizabeth got married. 371 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: In those roles, it was stipulated that if they were 372 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: to break up, Elizabeth would have no connection to the weekend. 373 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: After the wedding, the Wagners and Elizabeth moved back to Ohio. 374 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: A few months later, Jake and Elizabeth divorce. On the stand, 375 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: Angela speaks about what brought them back to Ohio. She 376 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: started getting visibly choked up when she spoke about Pug, 377 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: her father, and how he passed away. She wasn't there 378 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: when he died, and had she known how sick he was, 379 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: he was in such a state that she would have 380 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: come back from Alaska sooner to be with him, and 381 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: that is in fact why they came back from Alaska. 382 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: So they ultimately ended up living at Pug's house because 383 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: he Since his past in Ohio, Angela Wagner's paranoia grows. 384 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: Here's medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. I think that when 385 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: individuals intend to control others, particularly in a criminal enterprise, 386 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of planning that goes into it, 387 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: there's a certain level of paranoid behavior that kicks in. 388 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: I know that there was one instance where they were 389 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: interacting with someone that had shown up in the house 390 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: and she thought there was gonna be a sniper up 391 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: in the woods that as soon as she opened the 392 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: door that there weren't been a round between her eyes. 393 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: And what kind of person thinks like that? So when 394 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: they're planning the killings, this masker, when they're planning this, 395 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: I think that that hyper self awareness and awareness of 396 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: years surroundings, everything goes into these kind of paranoid beliefs. 397 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: Perhaps In November eighteenth, twenty eighteen, Billy, Angela, George, and 398 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: Jake where a rest didn't charge with murdering the road 399 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: in Manly and Gilly families. Four of them pleaded not guilty. 400 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: Angela testifies that the first time she heard about Jake 401 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: taking a plea deal was on the news Here's Stephanie. 402 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: She only heard that Jake cut a deal while in prison, 403 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: seeing it on breaking news. She saw it and it 404 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: was her heart just got ripped open that day, and 405 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: I wish they had asked why, because it was your 406 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: heart ripped open because now you've been caught and your 407 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: boys just turned on you. Or is your heart ripped 408 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: open because now you're realizing that these murders really happened. 409 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: Five months after hearing about Jake's plea deal, Angela changes 410 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: her plea to guilty. This is in September of twenty 411 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: twenty one. On cross examination, the defense challenges Angela on 412 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: the terms of her plea deal. Now, according to prosecutors, 413 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: this plea deal, Angela was given as a thirty year 414 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: sentence to be served in full so long as she 415 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: admits to her role in the killings of the road 416 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: In family in twenty sixteen. However, the defense argued that 417 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: it was only after Jake pled guilty that she decided 418 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: to as well, claiming that Angela only did so to 419 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: prevent her sons from testifying against her. Now, Angela argued 420 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: back against the defense, saying that was only partly true, 421 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: and claimed there were multiple reasons for her coming forward. 422 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: This is a big jaw dropper. She only took the 423 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: plea deal because she did the math and hoped that 424 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: she could get out at eighty at the bare minimum. 425 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: She could then hug her grand babies and hug her 426 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: sons and husband one last time before she died. Here again, 427 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: investigative reporter James Pilcher. To be honest, I think she 428 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: was telling the truth when she testified. She wanted a 429 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: chance to see her kids again, and see your grandkids again. 430 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: That's her whole life, you know. However twisted this family 431 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: might have been. That family was all she had, and 432 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: so she wants a chance to be reunited with them, 433 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: and in her own worldview, this deal possibly makes that possible. 434 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: The defense argues that Angela got the plea deal of 435 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: the century. The evidence will be that Jake and Angela 436 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: have called the state of Ohio here as well. They've 437 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: called the state of Ohio into the most tainous crime, 438 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: into a thirty years sentence and a sentence most deserving 439 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: of death. He escapes with life. In order to avoid 440 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: the death penalty, they must implicate George. Here's Jeff speaking 441 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: with attorney and legal analyst Mike Allen. Is this a 442 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: sweetheart deal? And did she earn her deal? Oh? I 443 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: think she definitely earned her deal. I think her testimony 444 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: was credible, and you look at it from the state's 445 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: point of view, I mean, I don't think they gave 446 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: up much. She's I believe, will be eighty years old 447 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: when she's eligible for parole. You may not make it 448 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: out other than on a stretcher. Was a smart deal 449 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: for the state because they got a lot of testimony 450 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: from her that does coincide and jibe with some of 451 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: the other testimony, some of the physical evidence in the case. Remember, 452 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: Angela testified that George wanted to take the fall for 453 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: the family months before Jake pleaded guilty. Here's Stephanie. George 454 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: tries to take the fall for all of them. She says, no, 455 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: she could never do that. And then really, the only 456 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: main reason also that she took the plea agreement for 457 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: the thirty years is because she couldn't possibly bear Jake 458 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: going through the trauma of having to testify against her. 459 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: She just wouldn't put him through that, which sounds great 460 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: until you realize you're actually staring at your other son 461 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: right now. On the one hand, she's being so kind, 462 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: yeah to Jake, and she wouldn't put him through it, 463 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: But she's saying that at the trial of her other 464 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: son who she's putting through it. The defense brings up 465 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: a letter that Angela wrote to her mother in law, Frederica, 466 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: after she accepted the plea deal. She wrote a letter 467 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: to Frederica from prison, a handwritten letter, and she had 468 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: to read it out loud, and she wanted her to 469 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: know that basically, everything they're all saying in court is 470 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: not true, and they're just saying that because they want 471 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: to get the plea agreement. And the reason why that's 472 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: a big deal is because again, she just pled to this. 473 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: So just by that letter alone, she's saying she's a liar. 474 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: She's a liar either way. You're lied to your mother 475 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: in law from prison, saying not to believe anything you 476 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: said in court. So why are we believing anything or 477 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: saying in court? Why does she write that letter and 478 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: what does she really mean by it in terms of 479 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: she wasn't really guilty of the things they say she 480 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: was guilty of trying to make her sound like she 481 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: didn't really believe in her own plea deal, and what 482 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: she said she meant by it was, yeah, I pleaded 483 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: the burglary and I pleaded to the gun specs, but 484 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't really there, and I didn't hold a gun. 485 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: That's what she said she meant when she wrote to Frederica. 486 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: And here's another key quote. We're nothing like what the 487 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: media portrays, this says. Nash hits her on this too, 488 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: Nash and La Cross says, not anywhere in that letter 489 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: express remorse for taking the lives of eight innocent people. 490 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: And you're not getting a fair trial for that. And 491 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: she says, to be honest, that's because voters will be 492 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: looking for someone to blame. I wanted to make sure 493 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: that they got the truth. By voters, she meant jurors, 494 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: of course, because the voters are jurors. The defense says 495 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: that Angelo Wagner is lying to satisfy her rant of 496 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: the bargain, with no regard for her son, George. Angelo 497 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: Wagner testified on the stand for three days. Where does 498 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the man on trial stand after all of 499 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: this testimony. Some of the biggest takeaways from Angelo Wagner's 500 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: testimony was she says George knew about the plan to 501 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: murder the Rodents and he helped with the cover up. Well, 502 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: George's got held pay now because he's won his own trial. 503 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: But He's a creature free will, and he made these 504 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: decisions of his own free will. But you know, trust me, 505 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: Angela was daring a background. Jake was a tool in 506 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: her hand. She's like Billy Wills. And you know, we're 507 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: seeing George on trial, and George made a choice. I 508 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: think about the influences that Angela exerted over him, compelled him. 509 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: She was still his mama and anton end of today, 510 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: less more powerful than a lot of other things. Then 511 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: the prosecution finished their questioning by asking Angela whether she 512 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: regretted her actions. She then became visibly emotional in court, 513 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: saying yes, quote because they're my sons. I should have 514 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: protected them from that situation. We're going to take a break. 515 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. At the end of 516 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: evangelist testimony, the defense asked her about her relationship with 517 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: her sons. When Nash asked her if she favored Jake 518 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: over his brother, Wagner told the court, I did not 519 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: have a favored son. I loved George just as I 520 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: do Jake. When asked about being on the witness stand 521 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: a guest her son, Wagner, with tears in her eyes, said, 522 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: this is not easy for me. It rips my heart out. 523 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: The defense continues their cross of Angela here again James Pilcher, 524 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: and then she's asked, this is a tragedy you created, Yes, 525 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: it is, missus Wagner. Do you love your sons? Yes? 526 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: Do you believe they love you? I hope so. She's 527 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: in tears at this point. How difficult has it been 528 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: to testify? Extremely? She's not even looking at him at 529 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: this point. Do you still regret having involved your sons? Yes? 530 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: Obviously those were emotional questions that she was asked. She 531 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: answered them, I think honestly. When she was asked, do 532 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: you think George loves you? And she said she hopes so, 533 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: which was reasonable and probably an honest answer under the 534 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: circumstances for a mother to be testifying against her son. 535 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: I don't think she would know whether he still loved 536 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: her or not, because that's a hell of a thing. Again, 537 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: long crimes and Seinette Levy, Well, she's sorry for herself 538 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: or she's sorry for her son. She had told Billy 539 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: she was sorry they involved Jake and George, like they 540 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: shouldn't have done that. I guess she thought maybe they 541 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: should have just done it themselves. I don't know she 542 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: obviously has feelings for them and loves them, but is 543 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: that real love when you bring your kids into a 544 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: murder plot. Angela barely made eye contact with her son, 545 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: George throughout her three days of testimony. I have never, 546 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: in all the years I've been doing this, ever seen 547 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: a case I don't care if it's a shoplifting case 548 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: or an aggravated murder case where mother testified against son. 549 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's happened somewhere in the world before, but 550 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: I've never seen it. There was that one story, you know, 551 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: that really got my attention. I think he goes back 552 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: to time when George was maybe sixteen, and he had 553 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: had it up to zb also the family, and he 554 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: had his car, he said itself. I think he made 555 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: it into Kentucky and he realized he was going to 556 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: run out of gas, and he turned around and headed back. 557 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: I often think of that sixteen year old kid and George. 558 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: You know, I think if he had to do over again, 559 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: he would have worked and worked until he could have 560 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: paid for several thanks and gasoline, just to put as 561 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: much distance between him and them. I'll certainly think he 562 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: would now consider the position that he's in you know, 563 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: he's on trial right now for his life. Here's Jeff 564 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: and Mike Allen, And what about if he's found guilty. 565 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: Can they write to each other or call each other 566 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: from prison to prison. I don't think they can. He's 567 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: still got obviously Billy's case, Hag and I think they'll 568 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of keep that separation in place until all of 569 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: the cases are over with. But it would be interesting 570 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: to see how they communicate and what they have to 571 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: say to each other, because for now, if there's any 572 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: communication at all, it's kind to be through the lawyers. 573 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: It's just so interesting. I'm thinking, like this could be 574 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: the last time they see each other, or not that 575 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: they really communicated, but that they have any sort of 576 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: interaction for the rest of their lives. In George's defense, 577 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: his attorneys argue that even though George was a part 578 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: of the family, he kept his distance from these crimes. 579 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: George knew his family had done a lot of bad 580 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: things in their life, but he had never known of 581 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: him to ever commit a crime of violence. He couldn't 582 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: believe it, He denied it. At the end of this testimony. 583 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: How did the defense and prosecution do? Is horrible as 584 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: the crime was. I do think she came off as credible, 585 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: and I don't think the defense was able to really 586 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: do any damage to her own cross examination. I think 587 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: for the prosecution it's it's a brilliant move. The dirty 588 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: details in this case are important, but they're not as 589 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: important as an overarching theme. The slight writing of a 590 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: mystery novel or a screenplay. You have an overarching theme 591 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: and it rises in Jake, and it's sasant Angela because 592 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: she's the big finale. I mean, she truly is. She's 593 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: the great, big exclamation point. And I think the really 594 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: sad thing about this is that her life's not new 595 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: every She's not the one that has her life on 596 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: the line here. She's kind of dudle, and I think 597 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: that she's chief among centers, but these others are not 598 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: going to see the line day. I thought the defense 599 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: made good points in their cross examinations of both Jake 600 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: and Angela. But I think that Jake and Angela's testimony, 601 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: coupled with the wire taps, do not bode well for George. 602 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: Even if you believe that Jake and Angela, let's say 603 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: they implicated George just because they had to in order 604 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: to get these plea deals that they wanted the wire taps. 605 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: In a lot of respects, he still sounds like he's 606 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: in the thick of this and he knows exactly what's 607 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: going on. They all lived together and grew up committing 608 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: crimes together. You would think that that would just be 609 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: very difficult for the defense to overcome, for them to 610 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: come into court and feel confident that they were going 611 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: to somehow pokenough holes in Jake and Angelists testimony to 612 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: make George not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not 613 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: saying it's not possible, and the Angela Wagner said, we 614 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: are all guilty. So I think that they've got a 615 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: tough mountain to fine. They may have to put them 616 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: on the stand. More on that next time. For more 617 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on 618 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is 619 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow, 620 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 621 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and 622 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie studios. For 623 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the heart Radio app, 624 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.