WEBVTT - How Ice Climbing Works 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.720 Hello, people in Vancouver and Portland's we're coming to see you, 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.920 uh in March. Okay, did I step on you? No? No, 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.400 I stepped on you, I think. Man. All right, well 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.120 this is as clunky as we usually are. Uh, we 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.520 are going to be coming to those two fair cities 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.720 that I learned don't have direct flights yesterday and I 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.800 can't wait regardless, So we're gonna be in Vancouver on Sunday, 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.280 March twenty nine at the Chance Center. That's right. We're 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:29.360 kicking it up a notch there, so we need your support, yeah, 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:31.800 for real. And then the next day we're really kicking 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.440 it up a notch maybe two. In Portland. We're gonna 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.400 be at the Schnitzer Concert Hall on Monday, March that's right, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.720 and we need your support there to Portland because uh again, 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.480 these are bigger venues. We're giving it a whorld. Don't 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.760 don't put egg on our faces for God's sake. Yeah. Yeah, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.040 So you could get all sorts of information, you can 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.400 buy tickets, everything you need to go to s Y 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.920 s K live dot com and we'll see you in March. 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:00.760 Welcome to stuff you should know. A production of I 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:09.880 Heart Radios. How stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.360 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Brian over there, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:21.280 and there's Jerry Um abominable snowman rolling, sorry, abominable snow 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.280 person rolling. I think she's more of a Burger meister, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.200 Meister Burger, Do you think so? Yeah? I guess you're 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.319 absolutely right, Chuck. Who would be the abominable snowman of 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.840 the three of us? I think clearly me. Do you 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:39.480 think so, I'm the most horrific? Yes? But your um, 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:45.280 your attitudes, your general view on life is very much 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.960 not like that abominable snowman. Well, I'm fairly likable too. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.840 I'm sort of like the Harry and the Henderson's big 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:57.120 foot that's right, scary looking but soft on the inside. Okay, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.720 so then Jerry's John Lithgow and I'm one of the 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.080 trees in a scene. Okay, what was John liftgo? But 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.440 I missed that Harry and the Henderson, So I just 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.200 got confused. I do remember him being hearing the Henderson's 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.880 But because of what we're talking about today, I thought 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:21.880 you were making a reference to the Stallone. Uh what 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.720 was that movie where he was like a climber. It 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.480 wasn't No, that was the troll to movie face off. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.320 I don't remember. I know what you're talking about. But 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.880 wasn't John liftgaw in that I think so. But actually 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.360 the big twist to all this is I wasn't making 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.640 it Harry and the Henderson's reference. I was making a 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:46.119 raising Caine reference. Oh good lord, this is all the rails. Cliffhanger, right, cliffhanger. 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.639 That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah yeah, and John Lull 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.400 was in it boom yeah. And it was stillone yeah, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.320 you know, from the master filmmaker, Rennie Harlan. I like 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.720 Renny Harlan. I don't care what anybody says. I saw 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.280 The Long Kiss good Night finally that that's been on 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.080 your list for twelve years. World class movie starting at 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:11.560 about this halfway mark. Okay, all right, So we're talking 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.320 ice climbing today, and I guess I should probably start 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.840 by asking just verifying, Um, no, I haven't have you 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:26.840 ever seen I uh, I have seen ice, I've never 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.320 ice climbed. And you know, another funny little thing is 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.520 I don't know if you notice that my friend Debbie 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.400 Ranka wrote this from the old House Notice Yep, that's 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.240 quality stuff. She puts out the good stuff. Well she does. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.280 She did a great job researching. But it's just funny 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.080 knowing Debbie. She is uh about as far away you 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.440 can get from someone who might ice climb. But wasn't 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:54.080 she into Roller Derby's sure? Okay, So I mean so 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.600 there's a sense of adventure. Yeah, but I was surprised 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:02.040 she did roller Derby. Uh, okay, I got you. So 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.120 it's a surprise you to roller River. Yeah, there's no 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.080 way she's gonna ice climb, even she doesn't like the 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.560 cold weather, so nothing about it, even from what I 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.600 can understand from ice climbing, I mean, we're far from experts. 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.040 We just did some research on ice climbing for ice 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.880 climb before. I haven't either. Um, and we'll probably get 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.040 some stuff from but please be forgiving. We're trying our 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.640 best here. But um, from what I can tell, even 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.520 rock climbers don't typically ice climb. They are a very 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.400 niche cadre. I think if you're an ice climber, you 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.600 started I was a rock climber. But just because your 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.280 rock climber does not automatically mean you can you can 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.400 be an ice climber there. They seem similar at first, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.520 but when you really start to dig in, the nuance 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.719 between the two is pretty significant when you're out there 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.839 on the face of a glacier. Yeah, and I also 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:53.080 think that, um, there are plenty of rock climbers who 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:57.160 just want to go like shirt off or tank top 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.200 and shorts and not. Yeah, because part of ice climbing 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.480 is it's really cold. Yeah, it's a it's cold, it's 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.720 equipment heavy. Yeah, there's a lot, there's just a there's 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.200 a lot of differences. We'll go over some of the 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.160 differences as they pop up, but just suffice to say 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.800 that if you're familiar with rock climbing, that doesn't automatically 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.279 mean you're gonna be familiar with ice climbing. No, And 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.200 I don't think you need to sweat get in details 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.120 wrong because there's probably like a six ice climbers Max 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.040 who might listen to this show. Yeah, Oh, I think 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.440 that's a generous number. Have you seen the Free Solo 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.719 documentary yet? No? I haven't didn't it. It was either 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:35.440 up for an oscar at one and I think it 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.680 won a couple of years ago. Yeah, No, I haven't 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.960 seen it, really, really, really good. I'm sure I would 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.680 faint they just watching it. You know, it's pretty tense. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.880 Although I will say this, Chuck. On the other day, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.240 I was on a flight and um, everything just kept 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.200 bottoming out. We ran into some terrible weather and I 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.159 was just like filing my nails like it was nothing. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.040 That's why you have to like tend leading in front 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.320 of me. They ache because I file them too too deeply. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.800 All right, ice climbing, Okay, so your story, Yeah, that 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.520 was it. I just thought you'd appreciate that. Afraid of flying, 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.560 I was, you know, talking about heights and all that. Sure, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.440 so there is talking about um, what was it called free, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.839 free solo? What's the name of the documentary? So that 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.160 actually applies also kind of to ice climbing, as we'll 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.280 see later. So there are some some similarities, but there's 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.920 also some big differences. But ice climbing really more than 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:37.480 anything evolved out of mountaineering, because when you're climbing an 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.760 alpine mountain or a mountain that's really at a really 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.359 high altitude, it's not all just like green grass and 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.800 the von Trapp family and you know, birds singing in 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.760 your ear. It gets really cold up there. There's a 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.800 lot of snow, there's a lot of ice, and you 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.479 are going to eventually face a point where either you 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.440 have to turn back around and go back down and say, well, 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.640 I'm not gonna summit this mountain, or you have to 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.240 figure how to climb ice. And some of the earliest 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.839 mountaineers had some real trouble with this. And it wasn't 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:13.960 until a guy named Oscar um Ekenstein, right probably thank you, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.320 very very nice, Um invented something called crampons that really 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.560 um change the game. I guess. Yeah. These are those 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:28.040 super cool looking, uh toothed claws that you originally you 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.160 would just strap them to your boots. They're like, you know, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.480 super sharp cleats basically that you could strap to your boots. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.440 You can still strap them to your boots, but you 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.320 can also get boots. And of course that I'm gonna 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.720 kind of pepper this with what I would do that 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.640 was a nice climber. I would get the built ins um, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.160 but you can still go by the ones you strap 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.320 on as well. I have to say, that's all I 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.160 saw were the strap on ones. Really, I think they 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.360 have them built in now. I looked, I couldn't find him. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.640 I saw some reference to him, but it looked more 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.960 like like actual cleats where it's like a crampon. Okay, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.520 maybe that's it's different then. Also, I really hope I'm 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.440 pronouncing that correctly. Is a crampon? I think so. So, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.760 you know, if you're a mountaineering couple and you need 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.440 to be very sweet, if your wife asked you to 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.800 go buy a box of crampons, right, you got to 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.760 do that. So when you you know there, they are 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.240 cleat like in in you know, design, But when you 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:26.760 really get down to it, I mean, the teeth on 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.120 those things are really long and really sharp, and they 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.000 have to be because you have to dig into some 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.560 serious stuff, some really hard ice with them. So from 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.559 what I saw, the everything I came across was all 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.959 like the strap on crampons. Strap strap on crampon. Right, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.319 I love it. So when Oscar Etkenstein, I'm sorry, Ekenstein 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.160 invented the crampons. Um he was a mountaineer. He was 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.600 an early proponent of what's called bouldering, which is basically 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.319 climbing up over big rocks free solo wing. It's kind 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:03.280 of even even lighter gear than rock climbing. And this 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.280 guy was doing this at the turn of the last century. 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.679 He was actually friends with Alistair Crowley too, it turns 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:14.160 out who wasn't interesting cat though. So um Oscar oscar 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.080 Etkenstein just changed everything with these crampons, because suddenly you 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.160 could walk through um a walk on a glacier at 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.000 a certain amount of a grade. And it just kind 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:25.920 of was the first big step, and it was a 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.440 very big step toward this um this sport extreme sport 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.079 of ice climbing. Yeah, and I think, um, I don't 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.200 think we mentioned did we that? Before this? You could 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:36.920 still do that, but it would take a long long 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.439 time because you would have to literally it's called step cutting. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.240 You would have to cut your steps into the ice 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.640 um as you go, instead of just having these death boots. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.360 That's a better name for him. Could you imagine getting 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.800 kicked with one of those, No, you would just bleed out. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.720 Surely that's been done in a movie, probably in Cliffhanger. Yeah, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.640 death by crampon. Surely there is no way that doesn't 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.840 happen Cliffhanger. Maybe that's how John lythgo goes down. I 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.800 don't I didn't see Cliffhanger. Is it ice or is 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.400 it just Mountain. I think it's both because I remember 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.200 on the movie poster it's like Stallone hanging by one 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.640 hand from like a Rocky Craig, but he's wearing like 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.080 a north Face jacket. So I'm thinking it's a little 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.640 bit of both. Alright, mixed climbing, I think is what 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.000 they call it. Well, you know Stallone, he likes to 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.199 mix it up. He definitely does so. History wise, things advanced, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.880 as they do with all sports. And about five years later, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.920 twenty years later, there was a climber named Laurent Grivelle 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.840 who these first crampons were just sort of on the 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.440 bottom like cleats. He said, hey, you know what these 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.520 things need. They need fangs coming out of the toe, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.760 out of the front, like those cowboy boots, to have 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.800 like a switchblade. Totally. You know, I think Roadhouse had 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.000 some of those who I'm not mistaken, probably because Cliffhang. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:05.560 There's one point where I think it's Sam Elliott and 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.880 a bar fight says right boot, and there's just a 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:14.600 knife in this guy's boot. Sam Ellie is so helpful, man, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.520 he really is, right boot. That was just a quote 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.120 my old friend, uh, my dear departed friend, Billy used 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.120 to say in college. Right, that's a good quote. So 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.880 the fangs coming out of the front really change things 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.040 because now they're like, hey, not only can we walk 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:35.400 up fairly steep slopes, but we can get near vertical 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.520 with this stuff, because we can just kick our toes 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.080 right into this and just climb. And I don't know 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.240 if you said it or not, but um uh was 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.679 it Lauren Grivel? No, I'm sorry, I von Schwinard. No, 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.800 we've just gotten to him in the nineteen sixties, the 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.120 swinging sixties. So um, with that, with that cramp on, 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.360 with the thing that comes out of the front. I've 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.040 seen it called a point. I've seen it called fangs, 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.079 but it can be like one point or two points, 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:03.959 and they have kind of like their ups and downs. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.360 We'll talk about them a little bit later. But now 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.760 finally you start to get to what most people think 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.040 of ice climbing, because we should say, um, it took 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.400 me a little while to understand just walking basically up 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.920 a very gentle slope in in the mountains over ice 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:25.360 is really difficult to do, and that that qualifies as 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.080 ice climbing. That's like a certain grade of an ice climb. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.240 Um what most people think of, if they've ever heard 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.280 of ice climbing, is somebody climbing up the sheer face 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.960 of a glacier with those cool looking death right. And 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.760 those are both two different types of what are called climbs. 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.960 Climbing straight up as a climb, climbing at an angle 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.680 a very shallow angle as a climb. Um just traversing ice, 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.679 whether using crampons or pick as we'll talk about in 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.600 a second, or both, those are those both qualifies ice climbs. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.520 And we've got to say that. But now that we've 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.160 got the fangs in the front of the crampons, so 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.600 that that that switchblade and right boot, Now you're starting 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.360 to get into things like vertical climbs where you can 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.160 climb up the face of a glacier. Now, yeah, and 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.760 previous to Yvonne, how do you pronounce that? Nard? I 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.360 think so he went on to become a billionaire because 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.880 he founded Patagonia, by the way, and I want you 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.880 to know this, he's a billionaire plus um. He is 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.880 the guy that said, you know what, we've got these 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.040 axes that we've been using, and I think we need 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.680 to tweak them. I'm gonna chop off a few inches, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.280 go from about to about two inches. I assume it 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.880 just made it a little more manageable, big part. Yeah, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.320 and then he changed that shape from this. It was 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.920 previously straight at a really shallow angle at the shaft 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:53.959 of the ax, you know the head. The head was 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.880 kind of angled down right, yeah, But now I think 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.480 he curved it right. Yeah. So it looks very sist like. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.880 It looked vicious before, but it was basically a straight 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.040 line and angle downward. Now it's like angle downward and 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.199 a straight line and then it curves back up. Yeah. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.439 I mean it's really it's cool looking. And it's got 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.840 a little uh barb at the bottom, which I'm not 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.480 entirely sure what that's for. I think for probably smacking 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.840 ice around, basically chipping at it away. But so this this, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.600 the the changes to this mountaineering axe were radical enough 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:29.120 that it's an entirely different tool now. Right Whereas before 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.000 the mountaineering x was, um you kind of use it 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.960 as a walking cane if it was long enough, because 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.480 it was longer than the ice ice axes what are 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.960 called ice tools. Um, but mostly it was if you 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.120 started to slip backward down the ice, you you. You know, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.960 you picked the ice in front of you forward and 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.360 held on like you you stopped yourself. It's called self arrest. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.920 You kept yourself from sliding down the mountain. Basically, that's 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.600 what your mountaineering access for. What you're um your ice tool, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.880 your ice axes for is to actually just like the 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.080 front of the crampons, right, the little the fangs that 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.800 come out these ice tools. Your is an act. You 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.000 swing above yourself and you basically pull yourself up with 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.440 until you get another footing with the front of your crampons, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.360 and then you use your leg and then use your arm, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.600 and then use your leg, and then little by little 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.920 you move up the vertical face of a glacier or 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.120 more spectacularly, something like a frozen waterfall. Yeah, it looks 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.880 um beautiful and striking, and it looks like an awful 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.000 thing to do. It looks really hard, and I think 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.680 it's I've read everywhere I've read it, it's it's said 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.360 that it's even harder than it looks. Yeah, and I 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.280 love him. Here Teddy said something like anyone can learn 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.360 to do this if you you know, I mean, technically 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.600 she's you know, sort of right, But yeah, I think 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.280 like it's more like one percent of you could probably 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.720 do this right or want to do this. So now 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.040 all this, all the stuff is in place for ice 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.320 climbing to become an extreme sport. And this is by 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.960 the sixties, and I really started to pick up I 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.600 think in the seven these and eighties, and definitely by 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.120 the nineties it was an established thing. Um. So let's 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.800 let's take a little break, shall we, and then'll come 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.760 back and kind of drill in a little more to 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:12.760 the equipment that you're gonna need if you're going to 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:43.600 start climbing. Get glaciers. Great, So with this, Oh, welcome 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.920 back everyone, we're here, right, cheez chuck, get right to 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.520 the point already. Right, So we were talking about the 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.400 tools in these uh these axes, which you I think 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.160 they call them sticks sometimes. Oh oh, I had no 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.560 uncovered that, and go maybe might I might be wrong. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.160 They're probably one of the coolest looking things you could 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.200 buy at an outfit or yes, have you seen them? 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.439 Oh sure, I'm a big fan of the petzel Ergo, 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:18.120 oh yeah, yeah, they're really cool. Petzel makes good stuff. Yeah, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.440 I got a lot of information from some of Petzel's blogs. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.200 I have to say, yeah, so there are a couple 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:25.719 of ways you can go with this. I mean, there 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.280 are all kinds you can get. They're all sort of 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.800 variations of the same thing. But um, and when I 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.439 was reading Debbie saying, it was funny because there you 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.359 can get one leashed or not leashed. And my first 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.560 instinct was, why would you ever not want to leash 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.000 on that thing? Because you drop it and it's gone. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.520 It's a big deal if you drop your your um 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.840 ice tool. Yeah, it's not good. But she makes a 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.880 very good point. You know, these it's not just like, oh, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:53.720 just take the leash off of your wrists, Like you've 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.800 got on heavy gear and heavy gloves and it's not 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.680 easy just to slip that thing off your wrist. So 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.439 if you want to use you might have two or 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.399 three of these for different uh you know, for different 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.520 terrains or whatever, different kinds of ice, and switching them 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.479 out as a pain. So what I gathered was, if 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.760 you're a really experienced ice climber, you probably don't want 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.960 to leash. No. No, And that's actually becoming um much 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:28.200 more prevalent called uh it unleashed, leashleashed is unleashed, right, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.159 So that's be that's becoming much more prevalent. And one 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.840 of the reasons it is becoming prevalent because some of 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.879 the UM, some of the fine makers of ice tools, 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.280 like Petzel, who is not a sponsor of the podcast, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.359 by the way, I'm just a fan UM, they have 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.720 started to create ice tools that have like real grips 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.120 on them, that have like ridges for where your fingers fit. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.119 They're curved in and upward, and there's like something that 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.560 goes underneath the heel of your hands. The upshot of 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.159 all this is it's getting tough, are and tougher to 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.840 drop your your ice tool, even if it is unleashed. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.119 But there's still plenty of people who use leashes, and 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.400 it's and when we say leash, it's it's very much 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.159 like UM a surfboard leash, whereas like a thing of 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.399 velcro that goes around your wrist and there's like, you know, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:20.960 some unbreakable nylon rope that UM connects to a carabineer 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.199 that connects to your your ice tool. So UM I 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.240 would go with with leashed. I think if you're gonna start, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.639 you probably are going to have it leashed for a 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.320 while until you get used to it, which which petzel 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.879 did you like the ergo? Okay, Yeah, it's beautiful and 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.640 it looks like it looks like they're at least three 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.960 different ways you can kill someone with this. Yeah. See 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.080 so so do you see right here where it's like 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.320 curved and like at the bottom this grip right here 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.560 totally it looks like a little pistol grip. It is, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.200 and it's a really well made It's a work of arch. Chuck, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.440 let's just call it that. I have a feeling you 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.679 might just get one of these, just a half, that 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.920 would be great. Keep it under the bed. Yeah, frame now, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.200 I'd frame it in a shadow box and just make 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.280 up stories about all the all the glaciers. That's the one. 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:09.880 Just dig it up a little bit, you know, right right, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.000 because like Josh, that looks brand new. It's got the 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.000 price tag on it. Still. So you were talking about 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.840 we're talking about the crampons earlier, and you mentioned briefly 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.520 the you know, some of them have a mono points, 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:28.160 just the one fang summer duel point, and I, as 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.240 a newbie, was like, man, I want fangs everywhere I 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.800 can get them, But that's not necessarily beneficial, is it 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.320 no and um you Well, if you have one fang, 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.480 you can really dig in deeper because you're putting all 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.880 of that force from the kick um onto the glacier 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.960 into that one point, hence the name mono point. So 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:50.720 you can really get in there and get a lot 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.760 of a lot of stability um or a lot of 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.240 um what's the word I'm looking for, chuck, A lot 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:02.000 of purchase. Okay, but it's not as stable as the 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.840 two fanged ones, the two pronged ones, because those have 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.439 that pressure spread out a little bit, so you have 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.880 a little more side to side stability, so you're kind 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.200 of trading one for the other. I think both work 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.159 is probably a matter of taste. I think it's probably 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.960 also a matter of terrain. I think the model point 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:24.200 works better in rocky terrain and they're able. Yeah yeah, 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.640 and you can get heal spurs um, not the dreaded 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:33.879 foot problem, but spurs coming off the rear. And again, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.639 I'm a I'm a multi give me all the things 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.760 that you can get on my boot. Sure, I'm with you, 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.760 you know, just yeah, like like concertina wire wrapped around 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:52.280 your feet basically. Sure. So, um, you've got the next 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.000 big thing you need, and this is really basic stuff. 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.400 If you go online and really start to dig in, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.879 out door research had some pretty good like a Beginner's 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.560 Guide to ice climbing. Um, there's a guy named Will 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.240 Gad who's just like maybe the premier ice climber in 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.000 the world, or has been for a while now. Um 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.800 he he writes a pretty technical blog. So there's a 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:16.359 lot of information you can get out there. But if 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.160 you ever look at a list of like the basic 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:24.200 necessities you need, it is really really extensive. I mean, 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:29.040 your ice tool and your crampons are just one of many, 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:30.720 many things that you need to have on just a 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.359 basic ice climb. But another thing that you have to 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.560 have are what it's called ice screws. And if you 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:40.680 have ever um done any rock climbing, Um, when you're 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:45.760 climbing up a rock, especially if it's a well traveled rock, um, 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.600 there's gonna be bolts in place in the rock and 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.640 you you know, clip onto those things and suspend yourself. Well, 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.840