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Speaker 1: Hello, people in Vancouver and Portland's we're coming to see you,

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Speaker 1: uh in March. Okay, did I step on you? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I stepped on you, I think. Man. All right, well

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Speaker 1: this is as clunky as we usually are. Uh, we

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Speaker 1: are going to be coming to those two fair cities

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Speaker 1: that I learned don't have direct flights yesterday and I

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Speaker 1: can't wait regardless, So we're gonna be in Vancouver on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: March twenty nine at the Chance Center. That's right. We're

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Speaker 1: kicking it up a notch there, so we need your support, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for real. And then the next day we're really kicking

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Speaker 1: it up a notch maybe two. In Portland. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: be at the Schnitzer Concert Hall on Monday, March that's right,

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Speaker 1: and we need your support there to Portland because uh again,

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Speaker 1: these are bigger venues. We're giving it a whorld. Don't

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Speaker 1: don't put egg on our faces for God's sake. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So you could get all sorts of information, you can

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Speaker 1: buy tickets, everything you need to go to s Y

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Speaker 1: s K live dot com and we'll see you in March.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know. A production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios. How stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Brian over there,

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Speaker 1: and there's Jerry Um abominable snowman rolling, sorry, abominable snow

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Speaker 1: person rolling. I think she's more of a Burger meister,

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Speaker 1: Meister Burger, Do you think so? Yeah? I guess you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, Chuck. Who would be the abominable snowman of

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Speaker 1: the three of us? I think clearly me. Do you

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Speaker 1: think so, I'm the most horrific? Yes? But your um,

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Speaker 1: your attitudes, your general view on life is very much

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Speaker 1: not like that abominable snowman. Well, I'm fairly likable too.

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of like the Harry and the Henderson's big

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Speaker 1: foot that's right, scary looking but soft on the inside. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so then Jerry's John Lithgow and I'm one of the

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Speaker 1: trees in a scene. Okay, what was John liftgo? But

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Speaker 1: I missed that Harry and the Henderson, So I just

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Speaker 1: got confused. I do remember him being hearing the Henderson's

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Speaker 1: But because of what we're talking about today, I thought

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Speaker 1: you were making a reference to the Stallone. Uh what

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Speaker 1: was that movie where he was like a climber. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't No, that was the troll to movie face off.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I know what you're talking about. But

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Speaker 1: wasn't John liftgaw in that I think so. But actually

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Speaker 1: the big twist to all this is I wasn't making

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Speaker 1: it Harry and the Henderson's reference. I was making a

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Speaker 1: raising Caine reference. Oh good lord, this is all the rails. Cliffhanger, right, cliffhanger.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah yeah, and John Lull

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Speaker 1: was in it boom yeah. And it was stillone yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, from the master filmmaker, Rennie Harlan. I like

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Speaker 1: Renny Harlan. I don't care what anybody says. I saw

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Speaker 1: The Long Kiss good Night finally that that's been on

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Speaker 1: your list for twelve years. World class movie starting at

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Speaker 1: about this halfway mark. Okay, all right, So we're talking

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Speaker 1: ice climbing today, and I guess I should probably start

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Speaker 1: by asking just verifying, Um, no, I haven't have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen I uh, I have seen ice, I've never

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Speaker 1: ice climbed. And you know, another funny little thing is

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you notice that my friend Debbie

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Speaker 1: Ranka wrote this from the old House Notice Yep, that's

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Speaker 1: quality stuff. She puts out the good stuff. Well she does.

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Speaker 1: She did a great job researching. But it's just funny

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Speaker 1: knowing Debbie. She is uh about as far away you

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Speaker 1: can get from someone who might ice climb. But wasn't

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Speaker 1: she into Roller Derby's sure? Okay, So I mean so

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Speaker 1: there's a sense of adventure. Yeah, but I was surprised

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Speaker 1: she did roller Derby. Uh, okay, I got you. So

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Speaker 1: it's a surprise you to roller River. Yeah, there's no

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Speaker 1: way she's gonna ice climb, even she doesn't like the

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Speaker 1: cold weather, so nothing about it, even from what I

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Speaker 1: can understand from ice climbing, I mean, we're far from experts.

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Speaker 1: We just did some research on ice climbing for ice

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Speaker 1: climb before. I haven't either. Um, and we'll probably get

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Speaker 1: some stuff from but please be forgiving. We're trying our

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Speaker 1: best here. But um, from what I can tell, even

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Speaker 1: rock climbers don't typically ice climb. They are a very

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Speaker 1: niche cadre. I think if you're an ice climber, you

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Speaker 1: started I was a rock climber. But just because your

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Speaker 1: rock climber does not automatically mean you can you can

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Speaker 1: be an ice climber there. They seem similar at first,

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Speaker 1: but when you really start to dig in, the nuance

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Speaker 1: between the two is pretty significant when you're out there

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Speaker 1: on the face of a glacier. Yeah, and I also

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Speaker 1: think that, um, there are plenty of rock climbers who

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Speaker 1: just want to go like shirt off or tank top

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Speaker 1: and shorts and not. Yeah, because part of ice climbing

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Speaker 1: is it's really cold. Yeah, it's a it's cold, it's

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Speaker 1: equipment heavy. Yeah, there's a lot, there's just a there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of differences. We'll go over some of the

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Speaker 1: differences as they pop up, but just suffice to say

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Speaker 1: that if you're familiar with rock climbing, that doesn't automatically

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Speaker 1: mean you're gonna be familiar with ice climbing. No, And

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Speaker 1: I don't think you need to sweat get in details

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Speaker 1: wrong because there's probably like a six ice climbers Max

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Speaker 1: who might listen to this show. Yeah, Oh, I think

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Speaker 1: that's a generous number. Have you seen the Free Solo

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Speaker 1: documentary yet? No? I haven't didn't it. It was either

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Speaker 1: up for an oscar at one and I think it

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Speaker 1: won a couple of years ago. Yeah, No, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it, really, really, really good. I'm sure I would

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Speaker 1: faint they just watching it. You know, it's pretty tense.

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Speaker 1: Although I will say this, Chuck. On the other day,

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Speaker 1: I was on a flight and um, everything just kept

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Speaker 1: bottoming out. We ran into some terrible weather and I

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Speaker 1: was just like filing my nails like it was nothing.

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Speaker 1: That's why you have to like tend leading in front

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Speaker 1: of me. They ache because I file them too too deeply.

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Speaker 1: All right, ice climbing, Okay, so your story, Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was it. I just thought you'd appreciate that. Afraid of flying,

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, talking about heights and all that. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so there is talking about um, what was it called free,

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Speaker 1: free solo? What's the name of the documentary? So that

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Speaker 1: actually applies also kind of to ice climbing, as we'll

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Speaker 1: see later. So there are some some similarities, but there's

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Speaker 1: also some big differences. But ice climbing really more than

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Speaker 1: anything evolved out of mountaineering, because when you're climbing an

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Speaker 1: alpine mountain or a mountain that's really at a really

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Speaker 1: high altitude, it's not all just like green grass and

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Speaker 1: the von Trapp family and you know, birds singing in

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Speaker 1: your ear. It gets really cold up there. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of snow, there's a lot of ice, and you

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Speaker 1: are going to eventually face a point where either you

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Speaker 1: have to turn back around and go back down and say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna summit this mountain, or you have to

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Speaker 1: figure how to climb ice. And some of the earliest

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Speaker 1: mountaineers had some real trouble with this. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until a guy named Oscar um Ekenstein, right probably thank you,

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Speaker 1: very very nice, Um invented something called crampons that really

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Speaker 1: um change the game. I guess. Yeah. These are those

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Speaker 1: super cool looking, uh toothed claws that you originally you

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Speaker 1: would just strap them to your boots. They're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: super sharp cleats basically that you could strap to your boots.

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Speaker 1: You can still strap them to your boots, but you

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Speaker 1: can also get boots. And of course that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of pepper this with what I would do that

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Speaker 1: was a nice climber. I would get the built ins um,

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Speaker 1: but you can still go by the ones you strap

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Speaker 1: on as well. I have to say, that's all I

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Speaker 1: saw were the strap on ones. Really, I think they

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Speaker 1: have them built in now. I looked, I couldn't find him.

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Speaker 1: I saw some reference to him, but it looked more

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Speaker 1: like like actual cleats where it's like a crampon. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's it's different then. Also, I really hope I'm

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Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly. Is a crampon? I think so. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're a mountaineering couple and you need

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Speaker 1: to be very sweet, if your wife asked you to

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Speaker 1: go buy a box of crampons, right, you got to

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Speaker 1: do that. So when you you know there, they are

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Speaker 1: cleat like in in you know, design, But when you

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Speaker 1: really get down to it, I mean, the teeth on

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Speaker 1: those things are really long and really sharp, and they

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Speaker 1: have to be because you have to dig into some

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Speaker 1: serious stuff, some really hard ice with them. So from

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Speaker 1: what I saw, the everything I came across was all

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Speaker 1: like the strap on crampons. Strap strap on crampon. Right,

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Speaker 1: I love it. So when Oscar Etkenstein, I'm sorry, Ekenstein

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Speaker 1: invented the crampons. Um he was a mountaineer. He was

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Speaker 1: an early proponent of what's called bouldering, which is basically

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Speaker 1: climbing up over big rocks free solo wing. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of even even lighter gear than rock climbing. And this

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Speaker 1: guy was doing this at the turn of the last century.

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Speaker 1: He was actually friends with Alistair Crowley too, it turns

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Speaker 1: out who wasn't interesting cat though. So um Oscar oscar

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Speaker 1: Etkenstein just changed everything with these crampons, because suddenly you

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Speaker 1: could walk through um a walk on a glacier at

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of a grade. And it just kind

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Speaker 1: of was the first big step, and it was a

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Speaker 1: very big step toward this um this sport extreme sport

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Speaker 1: of ice climbing. Yeah, and I think, um, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we mentioned did we that? Before this? You could

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Speaker 1: still do that, but it would take a long long

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Speaker 1: time because you would have to literally it's called step cutting.

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Speaker 1: You would have to cut your steps into the ice

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Speaker 1: um as you go, instead of just having these death boots.

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Speaker 1: That's a better name for him. Could you imagine getting

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Speaker 1: kicked with one of those, No, you would just bleed out.

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Speaker 1: Surely that's been done in a movie, probably in Cliffhanger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: death by crampon. Surely there is no way that doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen Cliffhanger. Maybe that's how John lythgo goes down. I

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Speaker 1: don't I didn't see Cliffhanger. Is it ice or is

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Speaker 1: it just Mountain. I think it's both because I remember

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Speaker 1: on the movie poster it's like Stallone hanging by one

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Speaker 1: hand from like a Rocky Craig, but he's wearing like

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Speaker 1: a north Face jacket. So I'm thinking it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of both. Alright, mixed climbing, I think is what

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Speaker 1: they call it. Well, you know Stallone, he likes to

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Speaker 1: mix it up. He definitely does so. History wise, things advanced,

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Speaker 1: as they do with all sports. And about five years later,

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Speaker 1: twenty years later, there was a climber named Laurent Grivelle

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Speaker 1: who these first crampons were just sort of on the

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Speaker 1: bottom like cleats. He said, hey, you know what these

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Speaker 1: things need. They need fangs coming out of the toe,

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Speaker 1: out of the front, like those cowboy boots, to have

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Speaker 1: like a switchblade. Totally. You know, I think Roadhouse had

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Speaker 1: some of those who I'm not mistaken, probably because Cliffhang.

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Speaker 1: There's one point where I think it's Sam Elliott and

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Speaker 1: a bar fight says right boot, and there's just a

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Speaker 1: knife in this guy's boot. Sam Ellie is so helpful, man,

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Speaker 1: he really is, right boot. That was just a quote

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Speaker 1: my old friend, uh, my dear departed friend, Billy used

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Speaker 1: to say in college. Right, that's a good quote. So

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Speaker 1: the fangs coming out of the front really change things

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Speaker 1: because now they're like, hey, not only can we walk

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Speaker 1: up fairly steep slopes, but we can get near vertical

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Speaker 1: with this stuff, because we can just kick our toes

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Speaker 1: right into this and just climb. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you said it or not, but um uh was

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Speaker 1: it Lauren Grivel? No, I'm sorry, I von Schwinard. No,

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Speaker 1: we've just gotten to him in the nineteen sixties, the

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Speaker 1: swinging sixties. So um, with that, with that cramp on,

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Speaker 1: with the thing that comes out of the front. I've

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Speaker 1: seen it called a point. I've seen it called fangs,

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Speaker 1: but it can be like one point or two points,

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Speaker 1: and they have kind of like their ups and downs.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about them a little bit later. But now

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Speaker 1: finally you start to get to what most people think

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Speaker 1: of ice climbing, because we should say, um, it took

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Speaker 1: me a little while to understand just walking basically up

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Speaker 1: a very gentle slope in in the mountains over ice

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Speaker 1: is really difficult to do, and that that qualifies as

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Speaker 1: ice climbing. That's like a certain grade of an ice climb.

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Speaker 1: Um what most people think of, if they've ever heard

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Speaker 1: of ice climbing, is somebody climbing up the sheer face

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Speaker 1: of a glacier with those cool looking death right. And

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Speaker 1: those are both two different types of what are called climbs.

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Speaker 1: Climbing straight up as a climb, climbing at an angle

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Speaker 1: a very shallow angle as a climb. Um just traversing ice,

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Speaker 1: whether using crampons or pick as we'll talk about in

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Speaker 1: a second, or both, those are those both qualifies ice climbs.

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Speaker 1: And we've got to say that. But now that we've

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Speaker 1: got the fangs in the front of the crampons, so

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Speaker 1: that that that switchblade and right boot, Now you're starting

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Speaker 1: to get into things like vertical climbs where you can

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Speaker 1: climb up the face of a glacier. Now, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: previous to Yvonne, how do you pronounce that? Nard? I

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Speaker 1: think so he went on to become a billionaire because

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Speaker 1: he founded Patagonia, by the way, and I want you

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Speaker 1: to know this, he's a billionaire plus um. He is

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Speaker 1: the guy that said, you know what, we've got these

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Speaker 1: axes that we've been using, and I think we need

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Speaker 1: to tweak them. I'm gonna chop off a few inches,

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Speaker 1: go from about to about two inches. I assume it

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Speaker 1: just made it a little more manageable, big part. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then he changed that shape from this. It was

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Speaker 1: previously straight at a really shallow angle at the shaft

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Speaker 1: of the ax, you know the head. The head was

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Speaker 1: kind of angled down right, yeah, But now I think

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Speaker 1: he curved it right. Yeah. So it looks very sist like.

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Speaker 1: It looked vicious before, but it was basically a straight

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Speaker 1: line and angle downward. Now it's like angle downward and

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Speaker 1: a straight line and then it curves back up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's really it's cool looking. And it's got

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Speaker 1: a little uh barb at the bottom, which I'm not

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Speaker 1: entirely sure what that's for. I think for probably smacking

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Speaker 1: ice around, basically chipping at it away. But so this this,

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Speaker 1: the the changes to this mountaineering axe were radical enough

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Speaker 1: that it's an entirely different tool now. Right Whereas before

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Speaker 1: the mountaineering x was, um you kind of use it

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Speaker 1: as a walking cane if it was long enough, because

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Speaker 1: it was longer than the ice ice axes what are

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Speaker 1: called ice tools. Um, but mostly it was if you

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Speaker 1: started to slip backward down the ice, you you. You know,

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Speaker 1: you picked the ice in front of you forward and

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Speaker 1: held on like you you stopped yourself. It's called self arrest.

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Speaker 1: You kept yourself from sliding down the mountain. Basically, that's

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Speaker 1: what your mountaineering access for. What you're um your ice tool,

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Speaker 1: your ice axes for is to actually just like the

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Speaker 1: front of the crampons, right, the little the fangs that

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Speaker 1: come out these ice tools. Your is an act. You

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Speaker 1: swing above yourself and you basically pull yourself up with

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Speaker 1: until you get another footing with the front of your crampons,

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Speaker 1: and then you use your leg and then use your arm,

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Speaker 1: and then use your leg, and then little by little

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Speaker 1: you move up the vertical face of a glacier or

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Speaker 1: more spectacularly, something like a frozen waterfall. Yeah, it looks

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Speaker 1: um beautiful and striking, and it looks like an awful

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Speaker 1: thing to do. It looks really hard, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's I've read everywhere I've read it, it's it's said

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Speaker 1: that it's even harder than it looks. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: love him. Here Teddy said something like anyone can learn

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Speaker 1: to do this if you you know, I mean, technically

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Speaker 1: she's you know, sort of right, But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: like it's more like one percent of you could probably

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Speaker 1: do this right or want to do this. So now

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Speaker 1: all this, all the stuff is in place for ice

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Speaker 1: climbing to become an extreme sport. And this is by

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Speaker 1: the sixties, and I really started to pick up I

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Speaker 1: think in the seven these and eighties, and definitely by

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Speaker 1: the nineties it was an established thing. Um. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's take a little break, shall we, and then'll come

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Speaker 1: back and kind of drill in a little more to

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Speaker 1: the equipment that you're gonna need if you're going to

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Speaker 1: start climbing. Get glaciers. Great, So with this, Oh, welcome

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Speaker 1: back everyone, we're here, right, cheez chuck, get right to

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Speaker 1: the point already. Right, So we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: tools in these uh these axes, which you I think

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Speaker 1: they call them sticks sometimes. Oh oh, I had no

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Speaker 1: uncovered that, and go maybe might I might be wrong.

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Speaker 1: They're probably one of the coolest looking things you could

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Speaker 1: buy at an outfit or yes, have you seen them?

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, I'm a big fan of the petzel Ergo,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, they're really cool. Petzel makes good stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got a lot of information from some of Petzel's blogs.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, yeah, so there are a couple

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Speaker 1: of ways you can go with this. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are all kinds you can get. They're all sort of

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Speaker 1: variations of the same thing. But um, and when I

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Speaker 1: was reading Debbie saying, it was funny because there you

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Speaker 1: can get one leashed or not leashed. And my first

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Speaker 1: instinct was, why would you ever not want to leash

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Speaker 1: on that thing? Because you drop it and it's gone.

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Speaker 1: It's a big deal if you drop your your um

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Speaker 1: ice tool. Yeah, it's not good. But she makes a

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Speaker 1: very good point. You know, these it's not just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just take the leash off of your wrists, Like you've

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Speaker 1: got on heavy gear and heavy gloves and it's not

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Speaker 1: easy just to slip that thing off your wrist. So

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Speaker 1: if you want to use you might have two or

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Speaker 1: three of these for different uh you know, for different

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Speaker 1: terrains or whatever, different kinds of ice, and switching them

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Speaker 1: out as a pain. So what I gathered was, if

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Speaker 1: you're a really experienced ice climber, you probably don't want

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Speaker 1: to leash. No. No, And that's actually becoming um much

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Speaker 1: more prevalent called uh it unleashed, leashleashed is unleashed, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's be that's becoming much more prevalent. And one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons it is becoming prevalent because some of

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Speaker 1: the UM, some of the fine makers of ice tools,

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Speaker 1: like Petzel, who is not a sponsor of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I'm just a fan UM, they have

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Speaker 1: started to create ice tools that have like real grips

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Speaker 1: on them, that have like ridges for where your fingers fit.

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Speaker 1: They're curved in and upward, and there's like something that

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Speaker 1: goes underneath the heel of your hands. The upshot of

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Speaker 1: all this is it's getting tough, are and tougher to

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Speaker 1: drop your your ice tool, even if it is unleashed.

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Speaker 1: But there's still plenty of people who use leashes, and

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Speaker 1: it's and when we say leash, it's it's very much

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00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 1: like UM a surfboard leash, whereas like a thing of

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00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 1: velcro that goes around your wrist and there's like, you know,

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00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: some unbreakable nylon rope that UM connects to a carabineer

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00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 1: that connects to your your ice tool. So UM I

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Speaker 1: would go with with leashed. I think if you're gonna start,

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Speaker 1: you probably are going to have it leashed for a

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Speaker 1: while until you get used to it, which which petzel

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Speaker 1: did you like the ergo? Okay, Yeah, it's beautiful and

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00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 1: it looks like it looks like they're at least three

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Speaker 1: different ways you can kill someone with this. Yeah. See

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Speaker 1: so so do you see right here where it's like

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Speaker 1: curved and like at the bottom this grip right here

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Speaker 1: totally it looks like a little pistol grip. It is,

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Speaker 1: and it's a really well made It's a work of arch. Chuck,

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Speaker 1: let's just call it that. I have a feeling you

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Speaker 1: might just get one of these, just a half, that

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00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: would be great. Keep it under the bed. Yeah, frame now,

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Speaker 1: I'd frame it in a shadow box and just make

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00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: up stories about all the all the glaciers. That's the one.

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Speaker 1: Just dig it up a little bit, you know, right right,

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Speaker 1: because like Josh, that looks brand new. It's got the

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Speaker 1: price tag on it. Still. So you were talking about

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the crampons earlier, and you mentioned briefly

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Speaker 1: the you know, some of them have a mono points,

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00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: just the one fang summer duel point, and I, as

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Speaker 1: a newbie, was like, man, I want fangs everywhere I

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00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: can get them, But that's not necessarily beneficial, is it

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00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: no and um you Well, if you have one fang,

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00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: you can really dig in deeper because you're putting all

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00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 1: of that force from the kick um onto the glacier

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00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: into that one point, hence the name mono point. So

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00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: you can really get in there and get a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of stability um or a lot of

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Speaker 1: um what's the word I'm looking for, chuck, A lot

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Speaker 1: of purchase. Okay, but it's not as stable as the

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Speaker 1: two fanged ones, the two pronged ones, because those have

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Speaker 1: that pressure spread out a little bit, so you have

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Speaker 1: a little more side to side stability, so you're kind

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Speaker 1: of trading one for the other. I think both work

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00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 1: is probably a matter of taste. I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: also a matter of terrain. I think the model point

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00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 1: works better in rocky terrain and they're able. Yeah yeah,

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00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 1: and you can get heal spurs um, not the dreaded

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Speaker 1: foot problem, but spurs coming off the rear. And again,

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Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a multi give me all the things

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00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: that you can get on my boot. Sure, I'm with you,

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00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, just yeah, like like concertina wire wrapped around

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Speaker 1: your feet basically. Sure. So, um, you've got the next

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00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: big thing you need, and this is really basic stuff.

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Speaker 1: If you go online and really start to dig in,

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00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: out door research had some pretty good like a Beginner's

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00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: Guide to ice climbing. Um, there's a guy named Will

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00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: Gad who's just like maybe the premier ice climber in

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Speaker 1: the world, or has been for a while now. Um

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00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: he he writes a pretty technical blog. So there's a

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00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: lot of information you can get out there. But if

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Speaker 1: you ever look at a list of like the basic

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00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: necessities you need, it is really really extensive. I mean,

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Speaker 1: your ice tool and your crampons are just one of many,

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00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: many things that you need to have on just a

395
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: basic ice climb. But another thing that you have to

396
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: have are what it's called ice screws. And if you

397
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: have ever um done any rock climbing, Um, when you're

398
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: climbing up a rock, especially if it's a well traveled rock, um,

399
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: there's gonna be bolts in place in the rock and

400
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: you you know, clip onto those things and suspend yourself. Well,

401
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: when you're climbing up ice, that ice that you're climbing

402
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: might not have been there last year, or it's not

403
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: gonna be there three years from now, so and you're climbing.

404
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: You have to put in your own bolts and what

405
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: they've developed or what are called ice screws that are

406
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: exactly what they sound like. They're they're long screws that

407
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: you bore into the ice and then you clip your

408
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: carabine or two and um ballet from or at least

409
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 1: hang from. This is where it gets terrifying to me,

410
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: because it's ice. You know, apparently ice can be just

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00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: as strong as rock. But you know, I've had some

412
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: ice in my mouth before. Sure I can chew that

413
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: with my teeth, It's true. So it's a little bit

414
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: unnerving to me to think about screwing into ice and

415
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: supporting my body weight, which, of course I wouldn't be

416
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: up there like this. That'd be a death sentence. Right. Well, apparently,

417
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: if you ever want to get as physically fit as

418
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: you ever will be in your life, just start ice climbing. Well,

419
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: we would do it before you start ice climbing. Problem. Well, yeah,

420
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: you have to train for it. But I'm saying like,

421
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: if you're a nice climber, you're about in the peak

422
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: physical fitness that any human being is. Yes, I would

423
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: agree with that. Um, so you got your ice screws,

424
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: you've got your crampons, you've got your axe, you've got

425
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: all kinds of little spawn divots and do hickeys, you've

426
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: got your super cold weather gear, and you've got to

427
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: have that helmet because ice does chip away and fall

428
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: and you don't want to get clunked on the bean

429
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: when you're hanging off of a sheet of ice. Right,

430
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: And that's like another big difference between ice climbing and

431
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: rock climbing, or the overhead hazards are way more prevalent

432
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: with ice climbing them with rock climbing. I mean you

433
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: can still you know, a rock slide can happen, Little

434
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: rocks can fall off if um, you know, you go

435
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: for a ledge or something when you're rock climbing, like

436
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: debris can fall down, and it is a problem. But

437
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: with ice climbing, it's just a matter of fact of

438
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: the climb. There's going to be ice flying everywhere. Sometimes

439
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: way more ice comes off then you intended to um,

440
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a little bit, but there's

441
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of ice falling, so you

442
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: have to have a helmet when you're ice climbing, that's right.

443
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: You're gonna be doing this. You can do it kind

444
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: of anywhere in the world where there is ice on

445
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: a mountain. Plenty of places in North America. You can

446
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: go to Norway, you can go to Iceland, you can

447
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: go to the Alps in Europe. Grease kind of surprised me,

448
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: but I was just being kind of naive and dumb

449
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: with my geography. Of course, Greece has big mountains with

450
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: ice and snow. I just for some reason I was

451
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: thinking their mountains in Greece. Yeah, you think of like

452
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: olives and wine and stuff, you know, and then Mount

453
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: Olympus of course. Oh yeah, there's that. It's kind of

454
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: a famous one, right. I also saw Scotland actually has

455
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: some really um intense ice climb interesting. Yeah, and there's

456
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,239
Speaker 1: plenty of places in the United States. There's actually an

457
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: ice climbing park called the ray Um that is has

458
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: an ice climbing competition every year where like the best

459
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: of the best, and actually, from what I understand, everybody

460
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 1: comes in and competes. Is it fake ice? I mean

461
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: not fake, but it's it's built. It's built, but it's

462
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: not like it's built on rocks. Like I think they

463
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: found a a spot in the world where they could

464
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: kind of grow ice. I'm not exactly sure how they

465
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: do it. I just saw that it's like human enabled basically,

466
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh you need it's a garden house, right and cold temperatures.

467
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: There's some dude in bermuda shorts and a panama hat

468
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: and like dark socks up to his knees. Just with

469
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: this hose. Just go squirt that down for the next

470
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: three days, right stand there, Walter. Uh, there's different kinds

471
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: of ice though, and uh, when you're an experienced ice climber,

472
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: you can you can look at a face and kind

473
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: of know what you're getting into before you even come

474
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: close to it, depending on how it's laying there and

475
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: what color it is, how clear it is. Um. I

476
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: tried to get a read on what would be the

477
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: ideal ice, and I really couldn't quite suss that out.

478
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: This is what I saw, so, um, you want ice

479
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: that has has been around for a while, So probably

480
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: alpine ice, which started out as fallen snow. Snow that's falling,

481
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: because that creates different kind of ice. But there's a

482
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: big heavy snowfall that dumped on a mountain and then

483
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: the temperature is cooled and all of that snow started

484
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: to turn to ice, and as it did, um the

485
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: air got squeezed out of it by the heaviness of

486
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: the snow to begin with, but as the ice formed,

487
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: it should have as well, and then it bonds to

488
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: the actual mountain side, so it's real solid to begin with,

489
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: and then temperatures get around freezing maybe a little above

490
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: for about five consecutive days, and on that fifth or

491
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: sixth day of that kind of temperature, um the ice

492
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: should be just perfect for ice climbing because it takes

493
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: on the state of what's called plastic where your ice

494
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: pick just goes right in and it stays in and

495
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: it's you can just tell it's very satisfying. It there's

496
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: a lot of strength to it. But at the same time,

497
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: it's not like chipping into a rock because, like we said,

498
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: like one of the reasons you have to be so fit,

499
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: and you are so fit just by virtue of being

500
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: an ice climber as you expend a tremendous amount of

501
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: energy with each swing of your ice tool. Because if

502
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: you're working with just plastic ice, that's going to be

503
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: a pretty easy, satisfying climb. But that's a that's ideal,

504
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: that's not the norm most of the time. When you

505
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: swing that that pick and again you're on the side

506
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: of a glacier, say you're hanging on by your feet,

507
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: the fangs on the front of your feet, um, and

508
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: you are swinging above your head an axe that you're

509
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: hoping to get on the first try, just a really

510
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: good solid stick, but that very unlikely. Instead, you might

511
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: do three, four or five times to get a good

512
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: stick in there, and each one of those is expending

513
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: a lot of energy. And you're doing this for meters

514
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: and meters depending on how high this this ice climb

515
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: is um and it's it requires a tremendous amount of

516
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: energy and a lot of it is redundant um redundant effort,

517
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: having to swing that pick multiple times just to get

518
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: that one stick. Yeah, because my again my naivete thought, Man,

519
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: I want to go when it's thirty below zero because

520
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: I want that ice to be so frozen. I think so,

521
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: you'd think so. But the colder it gets, if it's

522
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: like really really below freezing, the ice might get brittle. Uh,

523
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: it might break off. And that's called dinner plating, I assume,

524
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: because ice pieces about the size of a dinner plate

525
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: will come falling off into your face. Yeah, you not

526
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: want that, man. No, So, like you said, you want

527
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 1: temperatures right at about freezing. Um, even a little bit

528
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: above freezing is is ideal. Yeah, but yeah, I mean

529
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: just right around there, not not too much above, because

530
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: then the ice turns into slush, and slush doesn't hold

531
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: you very well. So it's almost like the very first

532
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: step towards this long path towards slush is where the

533
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: ideal ice is. And I saw actually one reason why,

534
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: maybe even the only reason why, that dinner plating happens

535
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: when it's really cold, when ice becomes less stable when

536
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: it's really really cold, because I thought the same thing,

537
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: but um, it's because the colder it gets, the more

538
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: the ice shrinks. Well, if the ice is attached like

539
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: to the top of a cliff and the bottom of

540
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: a cliff, it can't physically shrink very well, right, it

541
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: doesn't have that shrink so instead it thins out. It

542
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: gets tense, So there's a tension in the ice and

543
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: when you hit it with your pick, it just shatters.

544
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: That's why you don't want it to be just ridiculously

545
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: cold out and have been for a while, because that

546
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: ice is far more tense because it's constricting under the cold.

547
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. And that alpine ice we were talking about,

548
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: is that really pretty blue ice that you see. Uh.

549
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: If ice is really really solid and climbable, it'll be

550
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: blue or blue green. Sometimes it might have a little

551
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: yellow to it because of the minerality to it. Uh. Really,

552
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: really white ice isn't great. Well, I mean it's not bad.

553
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: It's it's got air in it and it makes a

554
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: little bit easier to climb, but it gets a little

555
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: dicey with the screws. Yeah. And the reason why is

556
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: because that air that um can form when say, like

557
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: a waterfall freezes, and it's essentially a flash freeze. It

558
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: doesn't happen for a very long period of time. Yeah,

559
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: people climb those, dude. I've seen pictures climbing of Rosen waterfall.

560
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: It's yes, it's nuts. But the reason why, and you

561
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: can see it's it is very it's very opaque. Um,

562
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: it's very white. And the reason why it's because there's

563
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: a lot of air trapped in there. Same thing with

564
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: um when it's falling snow that's turning to ice, not

565
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: snow that was already fell and then turned to ice,

566
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: but it's turning to ice as it's falling. That traps

567
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: a lot of air in there too. And yeah, you

568
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: can get a pretty good you know, pick stick in there,

569
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: but it's not going to support you because it's inherently

570
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: less dense. It's less solid because there's so much air

571
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: trapped inside. That's right. Uh. And I don't think we

572
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: mentioned the chandelier ice. It's very pretty. Um, these are

573
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: icicles that have fused together, but it's not great for climbing.

574
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: It's doesn't hold the screws very well. Uh. And if

575
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: you're if you're an ice climber, you know your way

576
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: around all this stuff. You know where to head toward

577
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: your down there at the bottom looking at your route anyway, Um,

578
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: you know which way do I want to go to

579
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: get the best ice. But you can navigate most of

580
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: this stuff pretty well, and you know to stay away

581
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: from I mean, people still die doing it. Of course,

582
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: mistakes and accidents happen, but you know what you're getting into,

583
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: and you know what kind of ice. You're not gonna

584
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: just try and stab into a chandelier. No, but I

585
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: did see. Um, it's called reading the ice where you're

586
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: just standing there basically visually mentally, um, doing your climb,

587
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: going through it in your head. And there's plenty of

588
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: like you know, perennial ice sheets that aren't going anywhere

589
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: for you know, well for and for the next couple

590
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: of decades at least, but um, they've been there for

591
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: a really long time and people climb them. And then

592
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: once you climb them and you get a good pick

593
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: stick in there, when you pull your pick back out,

594
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: that stick is still there. So the people who follow

595
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: after you use the same things. Right, It's like a

596
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: allege or something in rock climbing. It stays there well,

597
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: so um that makes the climbing a lot a lot

598
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: more easy. Hum. Um. One of the coolest things about

599
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: free solo was and this was something I didn't know.

600
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: I kind of thought, like, you go to climb a

601
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: rock and you kind of just do your thing and

602
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: what route you think is best. But established places like

603
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: El Capitan, which is you know what this one focused on,

604
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: there are only certain ways you can even climb it,

605
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: and they're very well established routes. They're named and um,

606
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: you should see this, dude, You're gonna you're gonna love it. Okay,

607
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: I'll see you it's really I will, I will watch

608
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: it simultaneously. When you watch Uh, it's a wonderful life. Okay, Um,

609
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: but I would suggest if you don't know anything about

610
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: the story, you're not like googling into it, just watch

611
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: it because there are some there's some stress as to

612
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: what you think might happen if you don't know the

613
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: real stories, the real story I will, I liked. I'm like,

614
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: I'd like to go in fresh Okay, so um, but

615
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: what you're saying is is like there is a set way,

616
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: maybe a handful of different ways you can climb El Capitan.

617
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: Same thing with these climbs, but depending on whether this

618
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: is new ice that's not going to be there at

619
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: the end of the season because it's like a frozen waterfall.

620
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: It's gonna unfreeze and freezes differently every single time, every

621
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: single year year. Um, you may be the first person

622
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: to make this climb, and so you have to get

623
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: super inventive or it could be you know, one that's

624
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: been climbed by a bunch of people, and um, it's

625
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: a lot easier because you don't have to exert quite

626
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: as much energy. I saw, I saw, Um, you know,

627
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: one climb of the same grade. We'll talk about grades

628
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: in a second. Can be you know, can take an

629
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: hour or can I should say, not me, but can

630
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: take that? Will gad guy an hour? But one that's

631
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: been picked through already, Um, it will take him like

632
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: ten minutes. What fun is that I would forge my

633
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: own path? Yeah, I guess, and you can you could maybe,

634
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. Actually you should probably just follow the

635
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: existing path. All right. Should we take another break? Yes?

636
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: We should. All right, let's do that and then we'll

637
00:35:50,160 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about technique right after this. Alright,

638
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: So remember ice climbing also includes going up very gentle

639
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: slopes on glaciers at the top of the mountain. Like

640
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: basically when you're watching somebody, you're like, oh, they're just walking,

641
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: but it's there's ice that they're walking on, so it's

642
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: really hard to walk on. So there's actual techniques that

643
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: are involved in that level of ice climbing. Um. And

644
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: the first one is just flat footing, which is well,

645
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: you would just basically call it walking, but you're walking

646
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: with your feet kind of turned out like a duck

647
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 1: going along the ice with again with your mountaineering axe. UM,

648
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: to keep yourself from sliding down the mountain if you

649
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: start to slip. Yeah, and you may the French technique

650
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: is what it's also called. You may not eat and

651
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: be used in your acts at this point. But like

652
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: you said, it's just sort of like a duck walk.

653
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: If you look up, you're walking with your um. There's

654
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: a lot of stress on the inside part of your feet, right,

655
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: which is tough. And if you do this a lot, um,

656
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: it's tough on your ankles. You might want to switch

657
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: to something called side stepping. Um. That's exactly what it

658
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: sounds like. But you know there's an inherent risk there

659
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: because you're you're bringing those boots with those crampons which

660
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: are highly snagg able over each other, and it would

661
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: be very easy and tricky to snag one ft and

662
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that. No, And not only that,

663
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: if you are smart, you're probably using a rope line

664
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: um that you're connected to, uh to keep you from

665
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: actually falling off of the mountain, So you're having to

666
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: step over that as well, or to step with that

667
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: connected to the front of your body. Um. Yeah, so

668
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: it's it's got to be extremely difficult to do. But again,

669
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: it's a lot easier than cutting like a foothold like

670
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: they used to do in the old timing days, like

671
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: oct oscar Exstein. I wonder people free solo ice They do, yes,

672
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: so yes, if you just have crampons and the pick axes.

673
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: Some people like climbing a waterfall. There might not be

674
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: anywhere to put screws in um and you just you

675
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: just use that. You use the axes above you and

676
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: the crampons uh in in front of you, and you

677
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: just climb up a waterfall. That's a form of ice climbing.

678
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: I think it's very rare. I think most people are

679
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: much more safety conscious and stop. Put in an ice screw,

680
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, clip into that and then you know, move

681
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: up and we'll talk a little more about that in

682
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: a second. But I think that's the norm. But people

683
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: do free solo ice climb with just their tools and

684
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: their crampons. Yeah, and just like free solong on on

685
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: a rock. That's the that's the subset even of experience

686
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: rock climbers, right, because it's you know, one as they say,

687
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: one fall does it all? It's kookie, man, Yeah, it's

688
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: a nerve wracking one fault does it at all? That's good? Thanks? Uh,

689
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: then we need to talk about the German technique. This

690
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 1: is what I would do. Uh. And this is where

691
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: those front fangs come into play, because the Germans got

692
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: in there and they were like, I don't want to

693
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: walk like a duck, I don't want to sidestep, I

694
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: don't want to look goofy. Why don't you just kick

695
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: into that thing and climbate like a ladder? Yeah, And

696
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: I think it's depending on what type of um, what

697
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: what type of technique you're using. It very much depends

698
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: on the degree or the angle of the terrain. Yeah,

699
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 1: Like you can't front point if that you know, there's

700
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: not enough of an angle in front of you. So

701
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: by the time your front pointing that things that like

702
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: a fifties sixty degree angle by now and then onward

703
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: to nine degree plus. Yeah. And I also saw a

704
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: lot of pictures of p people using too, That's all

705
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: I saw. But that's not always the way though. No.

706
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 1: And in fact, Debbie basically describes like as the basic

707
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: technique that you're just using one ax so that you're

708
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: forming a triangle with your body with your feet at

709
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: about shoulder with the part beneath you, and then your

710
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: acts like in the center above you forming a triangle.

711
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: Um which I didn't see anybody. She is right, she

712
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: knows a lot more than we do about that. But um, yeah,

713
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: I didn't see anyone using that. Everyone was using technique

714
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: that she called um uh traction, which is basically what

715
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: I described. You've got two axes, one just above each shoulder,

716
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 1: and your feet are shoulder at the part, and you're

717
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: just climbing up one bit at a time like a

718
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: like a human fly. Yeah, I would want to I

719
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: want three. I would grow another arm and I would

720
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: have three axes in that right, I would just stay

721
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: at the lodge. Oh man, A little hot cocoa, maybe

722
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: some whiskey. Whiskey and hot cocoa. I don't know how

723
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: that would be nice? Fire? Yes, what else? I think

724
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: that's it? And maybe um yeah, no, that's it. That's

725
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: all you need? Flannel body suit? Uh yeah, I was

726
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: gonna say, really nice like sweater. Sure yeah, maybe some meatballs?

727
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: Sure this sounds great. Oh fonn do? How about that?

728
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: There you go, Chuck, I can always go for some

729
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: fonn do. I haven't done had that in a while. Um,

730
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: have you ever had roclette? I don't think so what

731
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: is so Umi's aunt and uncle got us into it.

732
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: It's like the seventies thing in the vein of fawn do.

733
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: But it's like this this cook top, but and you

734
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: end up in bed with another woman. It's this cook

735
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: took up that you cook like vegetables or you know, um,

736
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: whatever you want. I mean, typically it's like mushrooms or

737
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: onions or something like that. And then just underneath there's

738
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: another heating element and you put hunks of cheese typically

739
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: green air or um, I think gree air usually uh,

740
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: and then you melt it and then you put it

741
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: all together on your plate. So it's just melted, gooey,

742
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: awesome cheese over like you know, freshly um saute vegetables.

743
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: It's really really good, and it's also fun because you're

744
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: just sitting there cooking, talking and everything. It's just like

745
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: a good little social what's it called seventies dinner? Recolette

746
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: And originally reclett was a big wheel of cheese pushed

747
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 1: close to a fire so that it was kind of melty,

748
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: and you just walk up with hunks of bread and

749
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: like you know, scoop out hunks of gooey cheese with it. Um.

750
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: This is like kind of a like the Milton Bradley

751
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: version of Raclette that I'm talking about. But is the

752
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: reclette the actual cheese or this you? I think it

753
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: was originally the cheese, but now it's both the cheese

754
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and the unit. Okay, look at there, you'll see what

755
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah, I can quite picture it, right, So, yeah,

756
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: it is kind of tough to describe in my own defense,

757
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: but it's it's really cool. It's so is the idea

758
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: that the juices dropped down into the cheese or is it?

759
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: Why is it even together? Then? Just efficiency? You got

760
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: one one unit? All right. I guarantee whoever invented that

761
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: never envisioned two dudes in talking about it calling it

762
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: a unit. You know. Yeah, no way, man, that looks good.

763
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: It is. It is good. We'll have to have a

764
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: Reclette party sometime. Fantastic. You're gonna love it too. Uh So,

765
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: where were we here? We're talking about reclette, right, but

766
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: were we climbing high up an ice waterfall? Uh? We?

767
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: I think we're talking about the techniques, and we both

768
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: agreed that we would want at least two acts. As

769
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: you said, you would grow a third arm for a

770
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: third ax, but you're using both feet and both arms

771
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: in what's called the um the traction technique attraction technique.

772
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: You're looking to not dinner plate, so you're looking for

773
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: the strongest ice. If it's convex, that's probably not a

774
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: good place to to throw that ax into. It'll probably

775
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: shatter and dinner plate, although occasionally you might dinner plate

776
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: and find a very much stronger piece of ice underneath

777
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: that ice. Yeah, and so um Debbie suggests if you are,

778
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: you know the best way to prevent dinner plating is

779
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: to just kind of not use your full force if

780
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: you can swinging that pick and uh, maybe kind of

781
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 1: testing to see what kind of resistance you get. Also,

782
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: you want to listen out for sounds to hollow sounds

783
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: or not good vibrations in the ice when you swing

784
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: your your tool into it not good either. You don't

785
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: want to trust that ice, So you're listening out, you're

786
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: feeling out, um, and if it looks like the area

787
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: is gonna dinner plate or just chip away or fall

788
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: away or fracture, um, sometimes it is best to just

789
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: hit it and get rid of it and then find

790
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: that better ice underneath. If you think the ice is

791
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: thick enough, right, and you know you are using your

792
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: arms to be sure, But like with any kind of

793
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: climbing sport, most of the work is being done by

794
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: your legs. Yeah. Yeah, you want most of the weight

795
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: on your legs for sure. Angle no no, no, no no,

796
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 1: But that does happen. So you know you're talking about

797
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: one fall, does it all? With ice climbing, that is

798
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: pretty true unless you have like a good repelling system

799
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: going on, uh, and you're clipped into some good ice

800
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: crews that have a good purchase into the ice. If

801
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: you fall, um, you're going to be in big trouble

802
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: because usually when you fall while your ice climbing, a

803
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: lot of ice falls with you. So even if the

804
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: impact with the ground doesn't hurt you, something else falling

805
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: on you might. So don't forget. Your tools are really

806
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: really they're as sharp as they look. And um, I

807
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: was reading about the ray competition and how I think

808
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: within the last couple of years, Um, there was some

809
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: guy who lacerated his arm so badly and kept climbing

810
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: that they had to shovel out the bloody snow at

811
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: the foot of the climb. That's unsightly. No one wants

812
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: to see that, and he wasn't the only one to

813
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: do that, Like some guy had to go to the hospital.

814
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: If you wor it might have been the same guy

815
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: with another laceration. So the tools are really dangerous. And

816
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: that's a really big difference from what I understand between

817
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: rock climbing and ice climbing. If you rock climb, falling

818
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: is it's not great, but it's not unheard of. You

819
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: might even say it's kind of a common thing to

820
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: fall during rock climbing, and the chances are you're probably

821
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: going to survive it with a recoverable injury, if you're

822
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: injured at all. With ice climbing, it's very infrequent that

823
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: people fall because when you do fall ice climbing, it's

824
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: a really big deal and you can you can be

825
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: seriously hurt or killed from that fall. And I mean,

826
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: look at those icicles. Yeah. There was a woman named

827
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: Um Sue Not who was a premier ice climber. Um.

828
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: She and a woman named Carrie McCarry McNeil, another premier

829
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: ice climber. They were lost. As far as I know,

830
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: they've never been found. Back in two thousands, six m

831
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: Mount Foraker in Denali National Park, in Alaska and Mount

832
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: Forker has something called the Infinite um. Oh, I can't believe.

833
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: I don't remember the name of it. Um fang. I

834
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: think man pretty good band name. I know it's a

835
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: great it's a great name for it. But um, anyway,

836
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: they were lost on this. It's like one of the

837
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: one of the hardest, most difficult climbs ice climbs in

838
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: the world. And these two like the kind where you

839
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: have to like, um, you know, camp out on the

840
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: side of a mountain over multiple days and nights to

841
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: like make these climbs. This is like some serious stuff

842
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: and um, these two were perfectly capable of doing it.

843
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: They just happened to get caught in some bad weather

844
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: and have never been heard from again. But this is

845
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: in two thousand six and eight years before in a competition.

846
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: It might have been at ray Uh. Sue Not was

847
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 1: climbing and she was injured when she fell and some

848
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: ice speared her. Wow, yeah it does. It's called the

849
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: Infinite Spur. Yeah. So, um they were climbing the Infinite

850
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: Spurring got lost. In two thou six was a bad

851
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: year for ice climbing deaths in general. Not only were

852
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: Sue Not and Karen McNeil lost, but a guy named

853
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: Harry Burger, Okay, well he was lost in just like

854
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: a routine training practice. That was just a freak accident.

855
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: And I read about it and they said there was

856
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: no amount of training, there is no amount of preparation,

857
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: there's no amount of caution that could have saved him.

858
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: This was just a Greek accident that happened. But he

859
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: was trapped under ice, like a hundred and fifty tons

860
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: of it fell on him. He was while he was

861
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: climbing it. And I mean this guy was world class

862
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: from what I read. So we're soon not and Karen

863
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: McNeil and these are just this is a really really

864
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: dangerous extreme sport. Yeah, I mean that's that's the thrill

865
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: with any extreme sport deep down, as you know you

866
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: could die that day. You don't want to, but that's

867
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: part of what makes you know, that adrenaline kick up

868
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: to such a level. Yeah that, uh, that these people

869
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: do those things. Yeah, it's true. And I mean, you know,

870
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: you're in the mountains and there's a lot of chance

871
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: for things like avalanches to happen, and um ice can

872
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: fall on you. You can hurt yourself with your tool

873
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: you can lose your tool, you can get caught in

874
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: a blizzard. Um, the wind can get so bad that

875
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: it can blow you off the mountain. There's just a

876
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: lot of things, and there's definitely you know, precautions you

877
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: can take, like, um, if you were an ice climber,

878
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: you have an avalanche beakin with you. It's just part

879
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: of your gear. You have a first aid kit with you,

880
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: that's part of your gear too. You know how to

881
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,479
Speaker 1: use your ice cruise and you're clipped in everywhere. Um,

882
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of precautions you can take. But it

883
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: is an inherently dangerous sport for sure, of course, and

884
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: you always need to remember that you've got to get

885
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: back down unless you're like being helicoptered out or something,

886
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: which I don't even know if it's a thing. It's

887
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: probably a thing for the richies. But you know you're

888
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 1: going down as well, and you, uh, you gotta plan

889
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: out your day so that you're doing that safely and

890
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: at the right time of day. And um, you know

891
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: they always say that even hiking downhill can be tougher

892
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: on you than hiking up hill, right, because you're already

893
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: worn out at this point and that's when mistakes can happen.

894
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: So uh, and we keep saying experience ice climbers. I

895
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: guess you always have to do something for the first time,

896
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: but it seems a little redundant to say experienced ice climber,

897
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: you know, right, yeah, yeah, you're definitely doing it for

898
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: the first multiple times with a very knowledgeable guy who's

899
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: telling you how to do everything, and you're probably already

900
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: an experienced rock climber. I doubt if you start off

901
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: with ice climbing, it would have would probably be really weird.

902
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: I wonder if anyone ever has, you know, like I

903
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: never climbed a rock before, but look at that frozen waterfall.

904
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: But one thing I'm not I would like to be

905
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: able to do this. I don't know if I ever will.

906
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: But one thing that really caught my attention was you know,

907
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: when you're fueling up in the morning before your ice climb,

908
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: you want to eat um. What I saw was like,

909
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 1: think the Trucker's special breakfast at a diner pr and eggs,

910
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: and I could I could get into that kind of

911
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: sport where that's what you eat, and they're like, bring

912
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: food that doesn't freeze, so don't bring bananas, bring Oreo

913
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: cookies instead. I was like, I really like this ice climbing. Wow.

914
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: You know the It's sadly not there anymore because Atlanta

915
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: has just really changed in the past fifteen years. But

916
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: there used to be a place called Austin Avenue Buffet.

917
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever went there. It was

918
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: a long long time ago. It's on obviously Austin Avenue,

919
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: which is not kind of chey, but this place was

920
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: a great dumpy dive and they served food and they

921
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: had in the mornings, they had the painter Special, which

922
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: was eggs, bacon, toast, and a tall Boy PBR. I

923
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: thought it was kind of funny. Wow was the food good? No, okay,

924
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: I'm swimming. I didn't eat. I just drink. I guess

925
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 1: I was in there in the morning for eggs painting.

926
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool place. So so there was one

927
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to mention. Two. There's a very

928
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: controversial side to um ice climbing. The ice climbing community

929
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: and the rock climbing community are frequently one and the same,

930
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: but also separate in some ways. And one of the

931
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: ways they are separate and is that sometimes ice climbers

932
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: will say hey, I'm I'm gonna practice, but I don't

933
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: feel like driving up to the mountains. Um, so I'm

934
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: gonna use my tools on a rock climb, which is

935
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: called dry tooling, and it has all sorts of negative

936
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 1: effects on a rock climbing course. Um. It can chip

937
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 1: away ledges and all sorts of stuff. It leaves scars

938
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: on the rocks. It's it's rock climbers do not like that.

939
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: So there's kind of like a little bit of a

940
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: civil war in the climbing community between people who um

941
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: rock climbing people who dry tool climb and uh get

942
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: the impression. Dry toolers are not very well liked and

943
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: sounds kind of dirty too, dry tool Okay, UM, oh,

944
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: one other thing, since we're just throwing stuff out at

945
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: this point, I ran across the website called jyvass anchors

946
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: dot com and it basically is just this blog that

947
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: makes fun of people's ridiculously dangerous and ill advised anchors

948
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: for their climbs, like you know, things they're um they're

949
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 1: they're um connected into with their their carabineers. And all

950
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: that was verbatim the description of the blog, including all

951
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: the us I believe it. You do not all, Right,

952
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: listen to ice climbing once and for all, shall we? Yeah,

953
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about ice climbing, there's

954
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: a lot to go read and then try and make

955
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: sure you do it safely. So there you go, and

956
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: in the meantime, it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna

957
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,919
Speaker 1: call this Gifted and talented. Uh, this is great. Hey, guys,

958
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 1: I'm a Gifted and Talented GT specialist at an elementary

959
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: school and my students range from kindergarten to fifth grade.

960
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: We have an ongoing side project that was inspired by you.

961
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: We have two posters where we've created a list of

962
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: band names and song names and someone here's something they

963
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: say that'd be a good band name, I write it down.

964
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: They do the same thing for songs. They also have

965
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: decided the genre of some of these bands, which is

966
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: your job. Uh. They even took it a step further

967
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: like the GT kids often do and decided they need

968
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: to create a synopsis of the songs when they think

969
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: of one. I'm just picturing kindergarteners doing this and it

970
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: delights me to know. End Really, So, here's some of

971
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 1: the band names and what genre used. Mirrors not bad

972
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: Mr ma'am, I love that one. That's a great one. Yes,

973
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: she said, that's a pop group, ancient falls, she said,

974
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: either well, she said, alternative or maybe jazz. But you

975
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: are the authority, dumb and dangerous. Ah, that sounds like

976
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: an old man band. Okay. And then the loud mouths

977
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: or just loud mouths, which she said is clearly punk

978
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: it is or um yeah, punk, post punk, alternative loud

979
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: mouths yea. She closes with this, knowing these kids they

980
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: will take on one of these band names one day

981
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: and become the most successful band ever seen. My students

982
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: are absolutely amazing, so I'm not surprised by anything they do.

983
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: I enjoy listening while I'm completing all the hours of

984
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: paperwork apt to do. Keep up the good work and

985
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: big big shout out to Angie kind of and heritage

986
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: elementary gifted and talented kids. That's awesome. Thanks Ms Cannell

987
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: and your class for writing in those are awesome. What

988
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: was my favorite? Chuck again, Mr ma'am, that's a good one.

989
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: That's so good. Uh. If you want to get in

990
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 1: touch with this, like Ms Cannell did and her class,

991
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: you can send us an email. Wrap it up. Spank

992
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: it on the bottom and send it off to Stuff

993
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know

994
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works for

995
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart radio because at the iHeart

996
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

997
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: favorite shows.