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Speaker 1: Welcome to forties and free Agents. It is crossover week

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Speaker 1: here between NFL Media and ESPN, so we've got one

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Speaker 1: of their biggest stars, Mina Kaimes, joining Daniel and I.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know we're repaying the favor sending one

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Speaker 1: of our biggest stars DJ to NFL Live later in

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Speaker 1: the week, and I'm also here. Welcome to the show, Nina.

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Speaker 1: It's good to see you.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. I've been listening, first

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Speaker 2: of all, really enjoying this view element of your podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whose side to take, because you guys

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Speaker 2: have that kind of married couple bickering thing going on,

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Speaker 2: and I was thinking I could come on and like

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Speaker 2: take a side, but I'm friends with both of you,

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Speaker 2: and I really don't want to pick a side, but I.

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Speaker 3: Do think you. Doesn't it say a lot about Greg

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Speaker 3: that he tries to dress like he's in a Seattle

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Speaker 3: Grungeman just to try and curry favor.

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Speaker 1: Like that's a little DJ as always played into the

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Speaker 1: network audience, not even thinking about the podcast audience out there.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just trying to be.

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Speaker 3: Close your eyes and imagine every flannel we were in

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Speaker 3: high school, and then you all know exactly what Greg

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Speaker 3: looks like.

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Speaker 1: Everything old is new again. And it's not a fair

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Speaker 1: fight between me and DJ on this show because this

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Speaker 1: is his time of the season. Like, we're only a

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Speaker 1: week out from the NFL Draft, so we're gonna really

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Speaker 1: skip sort of talking about the NFL side of things,

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Speaker 1: at least to the start of the show. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: as we've gotten deep into this draft process, obviously DJ

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Speaker 1: has been talking about these guys forever, Mina has been

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Speaker 1: studying them. At this point in the process, who are

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Speaker 1: the players we're most excited to talk about that you

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Speaker 1: never get sick of talking about that you love watching

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Speaker 1: on tape. So we're keeping it simple to start the show.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to do favorite players to watch in

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Speaker 1: this draft. And Mina, you are a guest, why don't

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Speaker 1: you get us going? I'm curious who you go with.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is a player that I have definitely texted

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Speaker 2: DJ about, which, by the way, this is my relationship

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Speaker 2: with him. Is this time of year. As soon as

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Speaker 2: the NFL season ends and I start cramming these players,

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Speaker 2: I just text DJ, oh my god, this guy, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, this guy, and he very graciously replies, Yes,

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Speaker 2: that guy I've been watching him for months and he

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Speaker 2: probably knows where I'm going with this, because this is

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Speaker 2: the first one where I felt like that Kyle Hamilton

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Speaker 2: like love affair watching his tape. That's John Campbell, the

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Speaker 2: off ball linebacker out of Alabama. I love him. I

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Speaker 2: haven't felt this way about an off ball linebacker maybe

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Speaker 2: since Roquan I was trying to think of the last

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Speaker 2: prospect guys where I've really felt like they had he

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Speaker 2: had the tools, the physical and mental tools to become

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Speaker 2: a special middle linebacker in the NFL, and I feel

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Speaker 2: that way about Campbell. The athleticism is insane. I know

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Speaker 2: he showed out at the combine, but it also shows

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Speaker 2: up all over his tape. True sideline to sideline ability.

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Speaker 2: That's the aspect that reminds me of Rokwand he's a

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Speaker 2: plus pass rusher. You saw that on display you game

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Speaker 2: and other games, and he can cover. I think there's

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Speaker 2: still elements that need refinement. As any line line marker

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Speaker 2: is a really hard position to play in the NFL.

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Speaker 2: It's going to take a second in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 2: the route recognition, diagnosing some of the misdirection in the backfield,

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. He can be a little bit

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Speaker 2: over aggressive, but DJ I just feel like his ceiling

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Speaker 2: is up there with any young linebacker scene lately.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, two points, which I'm a huge fan of his game,

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Speaker 3: as we've discussed in the past, But I always love

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Speaker 3: length off the ball. Like to me, everything with the

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Speaker 3: shell coverage you're gonna see like that just makes windows

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Speaker 3: shrink when you can, you know, use your length and

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Speaker 3: clog lanes. People think about length, Oh, as a pass rusher,

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Speaker 3: you know in coverage, you know it can help. No,

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Speaker 3: this is like you as a zone dropper. That's just

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Speaker 3: that's a huge asset. To have to navigate around that

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Speaker 3: offensively is very challenging. So I love that about him.

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Speaker 3: I love the fact that the guy is an edge

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Speaker 3: rusher in high school, so he has that background. So

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Speaker 3: you know, as a blitzer, he's dynamic, he's very comfortable

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Speaker 3: with that. But yeah, he's such a good football player

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Speaker 3: that when he got to Alabama with two you know,

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Speaker 3: first round edge players, they're like, we still have to

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Speaker 3: figure out a way to get this guy on the field.

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Speaker 3: Like that. That says a lot, not just what you

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Speaker 3: see on the tape, but what you hear in his

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Speaker 3: background and how impressive he was there.

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Speaker 1: I am annoyed by mean on this, So I guess

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Speaker 1: he's going to take d just DJ side because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to take to Hot Camp. I only have so

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Speaker 1: many hot draft takes. Not that liking to Hot Campbell

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Speaker 1: as a hot draft take, but I'm with you. Like

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Speaker 1: watching him track down, you know, running backs and quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: Like he told me he'd be the ideal guy that

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Speaker 1: you'd want going up against the mobile quarterback to just

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Speaker 1: make sure he's not getting to the edge. She reminded

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Speaker 1: me a little bit of Navarro Bowman and any of

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Speaker 1: the things that you look at where Okay, it's going

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Speaker 1: to take him a little bit to recognize routes and

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Speaker 1: things like that. We talked about this earlier. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: true of every off ball linebacker in the entire college

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Speaker 1: football landscape. So that's not going to be different for him.

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Speaker 1: And this draft is so interesting because I feel like

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Speaker 1: after the top four were anyone could go in the

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Speaker 1: top seven or so and it wouldn't be that shocking,

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Speaker 1: Like why couldn't Jah hot Cambell go that high? I

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Speaker 1: feel like he could exactly crazy.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking to see, Yeah, look at the draft, I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's my ninth player, so I'm right. Yeah, if he

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Speaker 3: was the fifth pick in the draft, that wouldn't that

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Speaker 3: doesn't floor me. He'd be a fun he'd be a

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Speaker 3: fun chess piece to work with. Now he's a little

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Speaker 3: beat up, which I think if you if you draft

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Speaker 3: a linebacker from Alabama like beat up is going to

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Speaker 3: make his way its way into the report because that's

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Speaker 3: just how physical they play in practice as well as

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Speaker 3: as the conference they play in. So maybe that could

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Speaker 3: ding him a little bit. He's not healthy going through

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Speaker 3: the end of the process here. But gosh, his tape

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Speaker 3: is really good.

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Speaker 1: All right, DJ, you give us one of your favorite

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Speaker 1: players that they you've had a chance to watch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've talked about him, but Jday Barron to

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Speaker 3: me has been kind of my my guy through this

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Speaker 3: process of the tape is so good and he could

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Speaker 3: play anywhere. But I you know, to me, just leave

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Speaker 3: him as a nickel, let him, let him cover in there,

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Speaker 3: let him be a forced player against the run where

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Speaker 3: he does not miss tackles. Let him be a dynamic blitzer.

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Speaker 3: He takes the football away. Now there's a little there's

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Speaker 3: little intricacies that are a little different in his game

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Speaker 3: than Cooper de Gene and then Brian Branch, but they're

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Speaker 3: definitely from the same family. And I thought the league

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Speaker 3: unfairly punished those two players and they slid to the

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Speaker 3: second round. And I think this is an opportunity for

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Speaker 3: the league to have a do over on Baron. I

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Speaker 3: just love the way he plays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say those two players come to mind.

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Speaker 2: It's not a comp with Den Witherspoon with the Seahawks

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Speaker 2: per se, but in terms of thinking about like ceiling

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Speaker 2: and regarding that position in the cornerbacks with maybe who

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Speaker 2: can play only inside, but how much they can still

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Speaker 2: impact a game. He brings that same physicality they desire

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Speaker 2: for hitting the The way he closes on the ball

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Speaker 2: is really special, I think. I think guys, if I

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Speaker 2: was to say, what's the difference between him and a Weatherspoon,

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Speaker 2: he's a little I'm a little less confident in him

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Speaker 2: in man coverage. You saw Witherspoon in college had like

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Speaker 2: some really good reps on the perimeter, and Barren at

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Speaker 2: times I thought he gave up us a little bit

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Speaker 2: too much underneath. But I really just love the way

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Speaker 2: he plays. I feel like for him the question for

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Speaker 2: a team and how high he goes is just going

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Speaker 2: to be like do you think he can play outside?

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Speaker 2: And if not, how high would you value it? Nickel?

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Speaker 2: In today's NFL, I.

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Speaker 1: Feel like you would value it almost the same as outside.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you would disagree, DJ or especially in this draft.

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Speaker 1: And I'll keep going back to it where it's you're

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Speaker 1: just looking for guys who can come in and contribute

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Speaker 1: at a high level, Like that's that's a starting position.

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Speaker 1: Did did GM's look at that differently? DJ?

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Speaker 3: It has been. It has been a starting position for

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Speaker 3: a long time. But they speak out of both sides

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Speaker 3: of their mouth because it's in the room like it

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Speaker 3: is its own position. It is a full time player

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Speaker 3: in the league right now. And yet we get in

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Speaker 3: the draft and every year these inside guys fall and

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Speaker 3: then they end up, not all of them, some of

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Speaker 3: them picking off passes and winning Super Bowls. And then

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Speaker 3: you sit there and go like, maybe maybe you guys

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Speaker 3: should have you know, believed your own words about the

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Speaker 3: value of that position. So I don't know, it frustrates

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Speaker 3: the credit out of me if you can't.

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Speaker 1: Tell M and I like that you are trying to

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Speaker 1: be the change that you want in the world. DJ

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Speaker 1: putting them out podcast real.

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Speaker 3: Quick, real quick. I got a text. This is totally

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Speaker 3: off the subject, but I just thought of it. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to read you this text real quick again. This

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Speaker 3: is just totally uh, totally unrelate, but I think you're

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Speaker 3: two of the people that would appreciate this. This is

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Speaker 3: from John Spanouse for the Chargers. This is the end

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Speaker 3: of his text. I should add, as a co chairman

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Speaker 3: of the Future of Football Committee, we were the ones

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Speaker 3: pushing the virtual line to gain measurement. I apologize for

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Speaker 3: all the grief you've taken over your podcast name. So

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Speaker 3: I got an official apology for move the Sticks now

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Speaker 3: being an antiquated name. So I just wanted to get

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Speaker 3: that out there.

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Speaker 1: Are you Are you going to change it or you're

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Speaker 1: sticking with it?

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Speaker 3: No, No, those sticks are still there. They're backup. They're

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Speaker 3: not necessarily h you know they're not, but they're those

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Speaker 3: gentlemen are still going to be holding those sticks way

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Speaker 3: in the periphery if if they're needed, if they're called upon,

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Speaker 3: they'll be ready.

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Speaker 1: All right. I want you guys to go more than me.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what you say on these but

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Speaker 1: I will throw out one favorite player because I finally

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Speaker 1: got finished with the wide receivers this week, and I

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Speaker 1: don't see him on DJ's top fifty. So I am

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Speaker 1: picking a bone with him, and that's Kyle Williams of

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Speaker 1: Washington State. I was just watching these wide receivers one

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Speaker 1: after another after another, and I really like a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. I totally am with you about Matthew Golden.

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Speaker 1: Why you would view him as your number one receiver

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Speaker 1: after Travis Hunter. There's a lot of good receivers, but

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Speaker 1: he was the first one that I looked at a

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Speaker 1: little bit like Brian Thomas Junior a year ago, where

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Speaker 1: I thought, just he moves different, and I understand why

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Speaker 1: maybe he's not going to go in the top twenty picks,

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Speaker 1: but I don't understand why he doesn't have a little

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Speaker 1: more pop, because man, he is beating guys off the

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Speaker 1: scrimmage so fast. His footwork and beating press for someone

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Speaker 1: his size seems so incredible. He's got yack, he's got attitude.

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Speaker 1: I would draft him just for the touchdown celebrations. Give

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Speaker 1: me that. With Kyle Williams, like he just seems like

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Speaker 1: he is going to translate, I don't get why he's

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Speaker 1: not a top fifty player. So I'll start with DJ

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Speaker 1: just like what what what? What gives here? Like, well,

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Speaker 1: what is he missing?

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Speaker 3: I like Kyle Williams. I like him a lot, and

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Speaker 3: and the Senior Bowl was a great example what you're

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Speaker 3: talking about. And you know you watch those cutups there.

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Speaker 3: His releases are as good as anybody. He can separate

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Speaker 3: at the top. The name that I wrote down when

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Speaker 3: I watched him was he gave me like an Emmanuel

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Speaker 3: Sanders vibe, like a young Emmanuel Sanders, just because of

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Speaker 3: his quickness and separation and the way he runs routes.

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Speaker 3: He's not going to be the most physical guy, but

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Speaker 3: he's he's a winner. Like he can win at the

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Speaker 3: line of scrimmage, he can win at the top of route.

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Speaker 3: So I think he's gonna go. My My guess is

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Speaker 3: he's going to go early. Third round. But yeah, Greg,

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Speaker 3: we see guys go on that range all the time,

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Speaker 3: where the next year we sitting there going why the

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Speaker 3: heck didn't this guy go faster? I would love nothing

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Speaker 3: more than to fight you, but I really I can't

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Speaker 3: fight you on this one.

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Speaker 2: Did he run only like he ran like a four

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Speaker 2: to four right, believe it the com something I remember

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Speaker 2: thinking it would be.

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Speaker 1: He ran.

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Speaker 3: He ran a four to four flat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I okay, I thought it would be faster.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of like the inverse Golden where Golden

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Speaker 2: ran a lot faster than I thought his tape looked

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Speaker 2: to me, Kyle Williams, that's a little slower than his

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Speaker 2: tape looks. I'll throw something out with him. DJ's a

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Speaker 2: way on this yesterday and the NFL Live we had

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Speaker 2: to do like wide receiver team fits. I threw him

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Speaker 2: to the Chargers because I don't think they're going to

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Speaker 2: go wide receiver early in the draft. They desperately need speed.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he is that classic deep Z pardon me,

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Speaker 2: who can stretch the field create some room for Lad

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Speaker 2: McConkie to work underneath. What do you think of that fit?

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Speaker 3: I like it to me. That was when I left

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Speaker 3: the stadium in Houston in the playoffs, so it was like,

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Speaker 3: this team has to get faster and more dynamic, and

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Speaker 3: Lad McConkie's unbelievable. But imagine him with either a field

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Speaker 3: stretching tight end or a vertical over the top receiver.

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Speaker 3: It's just going to create more space for him. So

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Speaker 3: I think that's just like a production multiplier there. Not

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Speaker 3: only would a guy that can get up the top

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Speaker 3: like Kyle would have his own production, but I think

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Speaker 3: it would be great for a lad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was playing with on an offense that

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Speaker 1: was tough to watch, with a quarterback that was not

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Speaker 1: putting the ball really in the right spot for him,

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Speaker 1: and he was making those catches. So you talk about strength,

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Speaker 1: but to me, he was good at the catchway. I'm

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Speaker 1: all in on Kyle Williams. Maybe I was just just

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Speaker 1: hoping for a guy that could be my guy, and

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Speaker 1: I finally got to him, and I was excited about

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Speaker 1: Kyle Williams. Let's hear from you mean another favorite player

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Speaker 1: to watch?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna skip Carsons Schwuessire. That just did a

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Speaker 2: linebacker but I like him do And I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do a corner who is a little bit well, I

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Speaker 2: don't I think he could bear end of the first

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Speaker 2: maybe being the second that's Trey Miss. Yeah, we'll miss

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Speaker 2: the corner. So I guess the commonality between Campbell is

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Speaker 2: I just love long arms and it is the first

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Speaker 2: thing you noticed DJ when you watch train. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I just the way he uses his lengths to disrupt,

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Speaker 2: and also the timing of it, by the way, because

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Speaker 2: sometimes guys with long arms can get caught interfering. At

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Speaker 2: the college level, you really didn't see that. I thought

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Speaker 2: he did a really good job of being cautious and

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Speaker 2: timing it well. I also like the fact that he

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Speaker 2: is I think coverage agnostic. You could play himpressed man,

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Speaker 2: they played him off. I thought he was good at both.

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Speaker 2: There are still elements of his game that need refinement.

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Speaker 2: I think some tackling issues show up. That's like every

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Speaker 2: cornerback in the draft. But he's decent against the run too,

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Speaker 2: and he's got just I feel like the size that

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Speaker 2: a lot of teams need for an outside corner right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I had him going to the Rams

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Speaker 3: bottom and it just felt like kind of a Rams

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Speaker 3: Rams type player too, because he's just he's instinctive. He's

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Speaker 3: been through a full process, like you've seen him. He's

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Speaker 3: got a long track record. He's gone against elite players,

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Speaker 3: so you've got a chance to make a pretty good

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Speaker 3: evaluation on him. I go back through my notes, and

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Speaker 3: you know, outside fluid smooth, the only question I had

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Speaker 3: was off the LSU game because they ran away from

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Speaker 3: him a little bit there, So I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: how much like pure deep speed recovery speed does he have?

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Speaker 3: And he ran four four three, So I mean, at

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Speaker 3: least from a time standpoint, he cleaned that up. But

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Speaker 3: I thought he had instincts from off. I thought in

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Speaker 3: press like, he'll vary what he's doing. He can be patient,

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Speaker 3: doesn't lunch. I think he cut out a position, but

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Speaker 3: like Mina said, can use his length to his advantage

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Speaker 3: there and especially at the catch point. He's aware he

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Speaker 3: can poke the ball away. So literally, if if I

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Speaker 3: didn't see the LSU game, I'd probably have him like

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Speaker 3: in the twenties, you know, like early twenties on my list.

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Speaker 3: When it's all said and done, he'll end up in

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Speaker 3: the mid thirties on my final list. But I can't

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Speaker 3: divorce myself from the LSU game because he is going

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Speaker 3: to see he's going to get challenged vertically like that.

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Speaker 3: So that was my only negative.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he said, you like cornerbacks with long arms.

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Speaker 1: At what other traits are you generally looking for? And

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Speaker 1: are they all just like recreating great Seattle seahawks of

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Speaker 1: the past.

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Speaker 2: It's I think, I really like, is there something do

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Speaker 2: you have, like a signature? Trait is kind of something

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Speaker 2: I'm looking for in the first couple of rounds because

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Speaker 2: you know, pretty much, to be honest, every cornerback in

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Speaker 2: this class is somewhat flawed. There's no top five process,

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Speaker 2: even like.

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Speaker 3: Will Dirk Stingley's not walking through that door.

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Speaker 2: Oh Hunter, Sorry, Travis Hunter.

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Speaker 3: He's his own thing though, he's his own conversation.

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Speaker 1: I know, But like, I also feel like doing an

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Speaker 1: entire segment of favorite players in the draft, and not

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Speaker 1: just at least saying Travis Hunter would be the number

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Speaker 1: one overall player at least to me, just as a

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Speaker 1: cornerback er, just as a receiver.

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Speaker 2: No, I keep doing that. I'm like, well, they're no

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Speaker 2: really truly special this and then go way. I forgot

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Speaker 2: to mention Travis Hunter. Do they have something special? I think?

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Speaker 2: And like Baron, it's the physicality to me, that's my

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Speaker 2: favorite thing about him. Amos, it's the length, Hairston, it's

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Speaker 2: the speed. So I'm kind of just looking for can

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Speaker 2: we build up of something and then if you have

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Speaker 2: a flaw, is it something that can be improved pond

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Speaker 2: or are you just frankly too slender and the frame

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Speaker 2: is never going to fill out to the point that

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Speaker 2: was such a miss for me with Forbes a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago. And that's something I've been watching out for,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I don't want to jump to the inclusion.

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Speaker 2: He'll fill out, He'll get some stand you know, be

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Speaker 2: able to tackle. It's like some guys never do. So

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Speaker 2: I think that's it. Looking for one special trade and

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Speaker 2: then if the flaw can be fixed.

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Speaker 1: This is the last show we'll do DJ before your

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Speaker 1: final prospects list come out, So any any chance I

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Speaker 1: can convince you to just move Travis Huner up to

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Speaker 1: one to finish it.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of I thought you're gonna ask me if

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Speaker 3: I was going to take a Mason Graham out of

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Speaker 3: my top fifty. I thought that was you're gonna want there.

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Speaker 3: Now you know he hates Mason Graham.

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Speaker 2: Atta.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen somebody despise another human being so much.

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Speaker 2: No, Mason Graham quietly a little bit divisive with some

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Speaker 2: uh some people that I've chatted with. You know, he's

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Speaker 2: still my DT one, but yeah.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't think you should be drafted. Question.

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Speaker 1: None of this, none of this is true. I was

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Speaker 1: just trying to like find little knits to pick with

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Speaker 1: your rankings. But I do. I do think when you

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Speaker 1: have like Babe Ruth and Shohei Otani in the draft,

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Speaker 1: you might now you know, in the end, when we

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Speaker 1: look back in a few years, you're gonna want him

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Speaker 1: at one. So that's us my final push. Who's another

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Speaker 1: one of your favorites?

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Speaker 3: DJ I can go through a couple one of them.

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Speaker 3: This is like my here's my hot scouting take or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Tyler Warren, It's like he's definitely getting prospect fatigue going

385
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Speaker 3: through this process. And so, like I talked to somebody

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Speaker 3: the day and they were like, you know, they use

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Speaker 3: him at quarterback and some wildcat stuff and then they

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Speaker 3: move him around and use him here and use him there,

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Speaker 3: but like, you know, how much is that all going

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Speaker 3: to translate? And what?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: This that and the other stripping that a lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff away. I'm like, so to summarize, he's really good

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Speaker 3: at football, like like that's I'm okay with that. Like yeah,

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Speaker 3: and was just dominant and they had to figure out

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Speaker 3: every which way possible just put the ball in his

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Speaker 3: hands and make other human beings try and get him

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Speaker 3: on the ground like that's I'm a fan. I think

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Speaker 3: there's a little more nuanced and polish to him. And

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Speaker 3: you can even see on the highlights we're showing here.

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Speaker 3: If you're listening to it, just take my word for it.

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Speaker 3: He can't separate like he he is so big and

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Speaker 3: he's kind of a strider. So I know we didn't

404
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Speaker 3: get a chance to run a forty you know, going

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Speaker 3: through the process, and it's you know, I can't remember

406
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Speaker 3: a year we've had this many guys that don't run.

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Speaker 3: That's just the future. It's here, that's not going to happen.

408
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Speaker 3: He would run a much faster forty time than people think.

409
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Speaker 3: It is my prediction on him, and I talk to

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Speaker 3: guys who were at live games with him and they're

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Speaker 3: there that you feel his speed. You might not see

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Speaker 3: it on the video when you're watching the tape, but

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Speaker 3: when you get around him and see how strong his

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Speaker 3: stride is and he covers ground, you feel it. I

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Speaker 3: just think he's a fantastic football player and he's one

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Speaker 3: of my favorites.

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Speaker 1: I get that. I also get why some teams would

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Speaker 1: be scared of I think I would be this a

419
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Speaker 1: little bit like if you were looking for a tight

420
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Speaker 1: end and you have this guy, Colston Loveland available who

421
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Speaker 1: just fits. Okay, that's what we see in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: That's leg and play right, that's that looks like a

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Speaker 1: top ten potential tight end. And then you have this

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Speaker 1: other guy who's really just this unique guy, and you

425
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Speaker 1: have to figure it out, Like I get I get that.

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Speaker 2: I on my pod, I didn't. It's not a player

427
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Speaker 2: comp But I found myself talking about Deebo Samuel when

428
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Speaker 2: I was talking about Tyler Warren, which is to say, oh,

429
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Speaker 2: he's an absolute freak, an absolute mismatched nightmare. With the

430
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Speaker 2: ball in his hands, he's a human monster truck, and

431
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Speaker 2: he just has a lot of very unique, unicorny type traits.

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Speaker 2: And so with the right coach, in the right situation,

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Speaker 2: I think he has the ability to be one of

434
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 2: the three best tight ends in the NFL. But I

435
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 2: will say, and this is the thing that I don't

436
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 2: think it's quite fatigued so much as like as I

437
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 2: thought about it, if he ended up with the wrong team,

438
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: who's just like, hey man, just stand in line of

439
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 2: block and you know what wants to play action, I

440
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,479
Speaker 2: don't think he'll ever reach his potential. So I do

441
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 2: think fit does matter a little bit with him. I

442
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 2: don't think it's limiting. I'm not saying he's like Boom

443
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 2: or bust per se. And because I feel like sometimes

444
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: when you say fit matters, it sounds like you're denigrating

445
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,679
Speaker 2: the player a little bit. Yeah, yeah, certain. And he's

446
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 2: a tight to, which is a unique position a little bit, right,

447
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: So I do think the right I mean, how cool

448
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 2: would it be a Ben Johnson got his hands on him,

449
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 2: for example, just to throw that out there in Chicago.

450
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's good, but I just, you know,

451
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: I just wanted to land with the right team.

452
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 1: Reminds me a little of Jeremy Shackey coming out and

453
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: maybe a little like Shocky, a little like Debo and

454
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: and some like. He reinds me a little tasto some

455
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: Hill in a way. It's like you might that first

456
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: contract might be the big one because the way he plays.

457
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: Who knows how how he's going to age. But that

458
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: that that's fright.

459
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: Why am I blank and helped me with the name.

460
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 3: Why am I blanking on the Steelers tight end from

461
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 3: like a decade ago? Heith Millerith Miller, Heith Miller. Yeah,

462
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 3: when he I was in the Ravens draft room and

463
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 3: Heath Miller, you know, had a back injury so he

464
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 3: couldn't run, and we're watching him slide down the board

465
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 3: and Ozzie Knew some really early said this guy is

466
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 3: going to fold the Steelers, isn't he like? This guy's

467
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 3: going to fold the Steelers? And it was like, oh

468
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 3: my gosh, of course, and it was like he was

469
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 3: this just a Maller brawler and he was perfect for

470
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: the Steelers. Had an unbelievable run. So I do like

471
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 3: Mina's idea there with the Bears, But selfishly, I'm like,

472
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 3: can this league be dumb enough to let the Chargers

473
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: get the hands on this guy and we can recreate

474
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 3: the Stanford offense.

475
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: From years always thinking about his Chargers. More to come

476
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: on forties in free agents back in a minute, all right, Well,

477
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: we'll fly through a couple more quickly. It did say

478
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: favorite players to watch, so this is not projecting who's

479
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: going to be the best pro But I haven't had

480
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 1: a chance to talk about Jalen Milroe with DJ. And

481
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: if you put him in the NFL right now, DJ,

482
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: how many quarterbacks are better at running the football than

483
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: Jalen Milroe. I would argue it's possible. The answer is zero.

484
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean, at this point in Lamar Jackson's career and

485
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: Josh Allen, it's like the most efficient play in football

486
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: when he runs the ball. He is one of the

487
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: best runners of the ball at quarterback I've ever seen

488
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 1: coming out of college. And you can find like the

489
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: great games where he does make key throws that help

490
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: them win the game. So it's not like they're not there.

491
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: And I get why he's not gonna go in the

492
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: top twenty picks or maybe even the first round of

493
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: though they did invite him to the draft. But if

494
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: that's your baseline, to me, that's such an exciting baseline

495
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: that at worst, I feel like he's a better Taysom Hill.

496
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: And to me, that's more exciting than any quarterback in

497
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: this draft. It's more fun to watch other than cam

498
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: Warden Shedur Sanders. So like, he's just one of my

499
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: favorite players, and I would just I just want to

500
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: be the team that's dumb enough to take a chance

501
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: on him and at least find a role. Hopefully he

502
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: gets the right coach. We talked about fit I don't

503
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: know who you think would be the right fit or

504
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: if you agree with me at all, but I think

505
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: people are underrating that as a baseline, that he would

506
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: be that good unless you disagree.

507
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: That same logic got Anthony Richarson picked in the top five.

508
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: Right, which is why it's a good like late second

509
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: or third pick. I'm not saying you take him that early.

510
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like you could do something with him.

511
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 3: He is a phenomenal runner. And we talk. We were

512
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 3: talking because I love baseball before about baseball, and like

513
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 3: on baseball, they have a skill like all the way

514
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: up to eighty. He is an eighty runner, like he

515
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: is in top of the shelf, elite, elite runner. His

516
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 3: running trait is of this entire quarterback class. He's the

517
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 3: only quarterback that has a singular trait that's at the

518
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 3: very top of the ladder. So that's what I would

519
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: agree with you wholehetly. He's a dynamic runner. Whereas to

520
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 3: the point where it's like you'll get crucified if you

521
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 3: ever talk about players switching positions. But I'm like, gosh,

522
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 3: it is intriguing watching him. By gosh, what if he

523
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: was playing running back Because he's such a talented runner,

524
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: not to you know, to insult him, but the other component,

525
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 3: the vision, the decision making, that it's so troubling and

526
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 3: it's so below the line that it's like, how early

527
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 3: do you make that move there? It's just been not

528
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 3: enough evidence. He had a couple of games early in

529
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 3: the year where you get excited about, but the more

530
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: like the Oklahoma game, I can't get that out of.

531
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: My head, might be pertinent to the I know we're

532
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: talking production versus traits, but the thing I find concerning

533
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: about him as a quarterback is that he's played so

534
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 2: much quarterback, you know, right at a high level. So,

535
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: and this is kind of the production versus traits, right,

536
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: It's a thing that gets thrown into that discussion when

537
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: you're asking can be cause I think part of the

538
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 2: optimism for Anthony Richardson came from the fact that he

539
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: had played so little, right. So when you take a

540
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: guy like this who's been in a you know, top

541
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: shelf program, played with the best coaches, and you're seeing

542
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: some of these issues in terms of at the quarterback position,

543
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: it gets you a little bit concerned about. Okay, yes,

544
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: there's logic, so let's get him the building and see

545
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: if we can develop him. But he's already been in

546
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: some pretty damn good buildings. That said, I think with

547
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: the running the thing I want to just say. And

548
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: you guys are kind of hitting on this, especially when

549
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: you talk about a potential position change. He is doing

550
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: the nuanced things with the bona his hands that it's

551
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: not just like, oh he's big and fast, right. He

552
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: runs with exceptional vision. He sets up defender like I

553
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 2: I found his runs in like entrancing. So I hear

554
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 2: you Gregor saying he's fun to watch. I have a

555
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 2: lot of skepticism abou whether or not you be corbying

556
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 2: in the NFL. But you know what, it's all in

557
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: where you take him. I think it's all where you take.

558
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 1: It, right. I mean, uh, I know I'm dating myself here,

559
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 1: but Pat White got taken uh in the in the

560
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: second round of the draft. We've almost over corrected so

561
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: much that if even if you only did look at

562
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: him as a guy that could be a package player,

563
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: like a Taysom Hill type of guy. To me, if

564
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: I would take a plus Taysom Hill in the third round,

565
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's crazy at all.

566
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: He's going to go in the second round.

567
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: I would take a plus Taysom Hill and hope that

568
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: he could have You know, he's not gonna be Malik

569
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: Willis that that quick Probably of a developmental track, but

570
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: you would hope maybe he gets there in a couple years,

571
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: all right, I would know we've honked a lot. Why

572
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: don't you guys do like one more speed round if

573
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: if you want each just because I want to hear

574
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: more from from you two me and why don't you go.

575
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: For go ahead?

576
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: I'll be quick Mari and Hampton. I since I've done defense,

577
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: I'll skip Harman. I just think in a lot of

578
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: drafts he would be RB one, just so complete. He's

579
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: kind of good at everything. I think like he's has,

580
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: you know, ideal size, He's got short area bursts topping

581
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 2: long speed is good too. He's explosive, he can get

582
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: north south and move guys. He has a really good balance. Frankly,

583
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: he forces a lot of mistackles. He can even pass.

584
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 2: But he's still got a little bit of work to

585
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: do there. But I think he can be a plus

586
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: pass protector in the NFL. He can catch passes. I mean,

587
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: DJ like what can't this dude, I think maybe like

588
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: the agility is an elite, but other than that, he

589
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: just is such a complete prospect to me.

590
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just looks the part too, I mean he is.

591
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: He is a big, physical guy and interesting thing when

592
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: I talk to the folks, I think I told Greg

593
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: about this previously, but talk to the guys that worked

594
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: him out and trained him. When they do their onboarding,

595
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: they do all the physical testing and this guy had

596
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 3: a lot of touches. He carried the ball a ton,

597
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 3: so a lot of usage. And they said when they

598
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: checked him in and did the full medical work up,

599
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: like he was full go, ready to go day one, Like,

600
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: did not have a hangnail like he his body handled

601
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: that beautifully. So he just built for it. He's built

602
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 3: for the NFL. He can catch it, he can hit

603
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 3: home runs, he can get you know, talk about the

604
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 3: North South stuff. He hits, it goes like there is

605
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: a legit burst to him. Now, he doesn't have elite

606
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 3: like wiggle, you know, side to side, make you miss,

607
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: but it's not He's not tight either, So he's just

608
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: kind of middle of the road in that aspect of it.

609
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 3: But I don't know what else is wrong with him.

610
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: I think he's like my twelve or thirteenth player in

611
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: the entire draft, and I don't I don't see any

612
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: way he doesn't go in the first one.

613
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what happened here. I'm sure it wasn't

614
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: on purpose. I mean, I feel like picked a lot

615
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: of DJ's favorite players too, guy like just where he's

616
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: higher than consensus. But I'm with you. We all agree

617
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: on Omriy and Hampton, we all agree on Todd Campbell.

618
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: They're all They're both incredible. All right, finish it up.

619
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: DJ got a couple different ways I could go here.

620
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 3: I talked so much about Treyvon Henderson's past protection. It's

621
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 3: it's been said, it's been done. It is very fun,

622
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 3: like just entertainment. Though his pass protection real is as

623
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 3: fun as anything in this whole draft. I've used the

624
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 3: phrase it's like and it's like the it's like the

625
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 3: matrix when he hits guys, because the guys that he hits,

626
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: you'll see the arms go flailing and like get knocked back,

627
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: like it's the sight. It's a it's aesthetically pleasing to

628
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: watch him buckle guys in pass protection. But Jack Bash,

629
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: I love the story. I love the kid. I love

630
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: the you know, I hate the unfortunate, awful situation he

631
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: was put in with his brother's passing, but the way

632
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: he navigated that handled that. And then we're at the

633
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 3: Senior Bowl and the guy catches the game winning touchdown.

634
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 3: Like everything about this guy just screams. He's a total

635
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: stud and he competes for the ball up in the air.

636
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: He's just everything he does is physical and tough. The

637
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: first guy rarely gets him on the ground after the catch,

638
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: like he's just it's not a scouting term and it's cliche,

639
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: but like the guy's just a freaking war daddy. Like

640
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: he's I'm betting on him, Like he's gonna be a

641
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: good player.

642
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: Former tight end who has like the physicality of a

643
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: tight end. You can see him using him a little

644
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: like a tight end. Maybe not the blocking, but just

645
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: that the power.

646
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: He's Joe Juravicious on steroids. Not to make the white

647
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: guy to white guy receiver comparison, but like he is

648
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: like when young Joe Jerivisius in the league. He couldn't

649
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: really run, but nobody could tackle him. Like he could

650
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: just get open and nobody could get him on the ground.

651
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: Like he's just well beyond that.

652
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: I think I said I had him much more. People

653
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: are getta be bad at this. I said he was

654
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: Bobo plus on my pod jacobat which it's another white

655
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: guy cop, Hey, Bob underrated, underrated, Bbo plus is actually

656
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: a good player. I just think there's so many schemes,

657
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: so many coaches in the f on right now who

658
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: want wide receivers you can block and get yards after

659
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: to catch, and are physical and reliable to catch. So

660
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: I just think there's gonna be a place for him

661
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: in this league.

662
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe mac Hollands. So we can cross races and

663
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 3: I'll go mac Hollins. There is my comp Do you

664
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: like that?

665
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: I like it. I don't know. Uh yeah, I don't

666
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: know where I'm taking.

667
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: So there's there's not a pure comparison there, but yeah.

668
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: Matt Collins Day one free agency signing by the New

669
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: England pageots. All right, let's take a quick break on

670
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: forties and free agents. We will be back in just

671
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: a minute. Back on forties and free agents. Mina. I

672
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: couldn't help but notice this post you put on Blue

673
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: Sky this week. You said you've been listening to forties

674
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: and free agents lately and you sent out the ideal

675
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: two person podcast has one fairly upbeat normy usually the host,

676
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: and one grump who loves to complain unbeatable formula. Am

677
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: I the fairly upbeat Normy? Is this our formula?

678
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: No, you're revert the m Yeah? Come on you know

679
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: that Greg. You know he's the beat normy.

680
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: You had Mason Graham playing in the CFL for crying

681
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: out right? Come on?

682
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: Did we inspire that? The first thing I thought I

683
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: was like, who is she talking about? There?

684
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: Well, apparently every podcast, because every single podcast Earth weighed in.

685
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: They were like, Yeah, this is my dynamic.

686
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: I like to think of myself as a normy DJ.

687
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about something that I know you wanted

688
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: to dive into a little bit about production and traits.

689
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think this draft's defined by a couple of themes,

690
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: and one of them is with these edge rushers is

691
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: we've got guys with all the physical traits. They're explosive,

692
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: you know, Shamar Stewart kind of the poster boy for that.

693
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: Then we've got the other guys who have all this

694
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: production who maybe you know, lack some of those traits.

695
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: The elite physical gifts, and it's well, what's better, Like

696
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: these teams are having to make these decisions in the

697
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: draft room, how you stack these guys and how you

698
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: rank them what's better? So we put our guy Jack

699
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: Andraid in research on it and had him pull you know,

700
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: the way we approach was, let's look at all the

701
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: guys the top pass rushers in the league, so everybody

702
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: with ten plus sacks. Then let's try and work backwards

703
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 3: to what they were in college and Mina I was

704
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: hoping we were going to get the Welp, Well there

705
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: you have it. It's all the trades, guys you know

706
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: worked or didn't work and vice versa. And it turns

707
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: out it's a completely mixed bag, which makes this debate

708
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: and discussion all the more interesting.

709
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are examples of pass rush shirts we were

710
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: just talking about who had minimal college production and went

711
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: on to have great NFL careers. Daneil Hunter, right, is

712
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 2: the poster child for this. I mean, gosh, I had

713
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: forgotten the so if I remember him being raw in college,

714
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: but holy smokes like he so this is last seventeen games.

715
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: He had three and a half sacks in college. But

716
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: so it is all over the place. There are examples

717
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: of guys with little production who went on to have

718
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: success for the most part, though there's more examples of

719
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: guys who just didn't pan out. I would say, so

720
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: it is I think still a pretty big red flag

721
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: for me, and I've spent a lot of time watching

722
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: and thinking about Stuart in particular. It comes down to

723
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: a lot of things you got to look at. First.

724
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the underlying numbers, so it's not just sacks.

725
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: You're looking at pressure rate, past rush wind, things like that.

726
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: Numbers are getting better and better, and seeing if there's

727
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: something like maybe he was getting a lot of pressure

728
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: but not a lot of sacks. Stuart got a decent

729
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: amount of pressure. Finishing was clearly the problem. I'm looking

730
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: at positional changes like Michael pars is on here, but

731
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: obviously he played off the ball, so you know, was

732
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: this player given the opportunity? And then speaking of opportunity,

733
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: I'm also just trying to figure out how are they

734
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: used in the offense. The guy who was asked to

735
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: line up inside a lot I remember we were you know,

736
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: that's earily the case with some of these Actually, some

737
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: of the guys here and Trebron Walker comes to mind.

738
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: So you're trying to like paint as much of a

739
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: picture as you can to try to understand are there

740
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: any extraneous factor? Is that explain why this player didn't

741
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: have the production that would merit a first round pick?

742
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think And sorry, Greg, I'll just jump in

743
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: here real quick on that, because Georgia is a great

744
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: example of this.

745
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: If you look at Georgia, Trayvon Walker, Nolan Smith, Jalen Walker,

747
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: mikel Williams, so some in the past and some in

748
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: the present, And to me, they're easier for me to

749
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: explain when I look at Trayvon Walker lined up in

750
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 3: tid alignments and not being loosened up to be able

751
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: to use his gifts, you know, to rush the quarterback.

752
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: When I look at a team that he played on

753
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: that was blowing the doors off of everybody, and they

754
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 3: had a deep defensive line group, he didn't get quite

755
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 3: as many opportunities. So and Nolan Smith the same way.

756
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 3: So I was I could project what they were going

757
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: to be and what they were going to do, and

758
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 3: I felt comfortable with that. Now that being said, Trayvon Walker,

759
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: if that was him and Hutchinson. That was the debate.

760
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: I was Hutchinson. To me, Hutchinson had the traits as

761
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: well and the production. So that's why I was a

762
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: Hutchinson guy, you know, comparing those two players. But like

763
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: with Stuart, Stewart is freed up. He has opened up

764
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: to get those opportunities. You know. He he does have

765
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: a good pressure rate. He does. He has a lot

766
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: of win the battle lose the wars when you study him,

767
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 3: and I think finishing is a is a gift and

768
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 3: is a trait and being able to locate the quarterback

769
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 3: on the move, being able to bend and rap and finish.

770
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: He doesn't do that very well. He's very twitched up.

771
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: He's very explosive. But like that's why with him I

772
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 3: come down more on the like is iraqu side of things.

773
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 3: And I might be, you know one, I might be

774
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: in the minority on that, but I just think this

775
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: guy knows how to rush the passer. It's going to

776
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: take him a little while to develop some more you

777
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: know power. I think it's in his body. He's got

778
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 3: long arms, he's compact. I think he's going to be

779
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: fine that way. I just to me, I had a

780
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 3: harder time with Shamar Stewart than I did with those

781
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: Georgia guys.

782
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, as Iraku was on my list

783
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: if we kept going on and on about my favorite

784
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: players to watch in this draft, because he's got so

785
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: much he can do. And you look at the guys

786
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: who did test well and then did get taken pretty high,

787
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: that our relative success story. Let's say, like von Walker

788
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: and the Dafeo way, and you still see as pros

789
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: what held them back from production in the NFL in college,

790
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: and so like a way I would I would say

791
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: is a good example of a guy who didn't do

792
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: much in college and has been a solid enough pick,

793
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: but still kind of doesn't have that complete game. And

794
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: I think you could say that about Travon Walker even

795
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: though he's improved at all. It makes me think, though, DJ,

796
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: with less of these players testing, what positions do you

797
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: think are the most important? Because there's not a lot

798
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: of examples either of guys who didn't test that tested

799
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: really poorly and had had great numbers as pros. There's some.

800
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: Jonathan Grenard is an interesting one who didn't test well.

801
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: Kyle Van Noys had a great career. There's different ways

802
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: you can look at it, but what positions to you

803
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: are the most important? Where you want to get that athletic.

804
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 3: Testing corner first and foremost, because that's where your speed

805
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: matters more than any other position. So you know, you

806
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 3: can go off of GPS stuff from the college tape,

807
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 3: and but there's teams that don't trust that necessarily. If

808
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: a guy's not challenged, very often, he's only running as

809
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: fast as the guy that he's covering, so you don't

810
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 3: get to see him open up a ton, so they

811
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 3: and they don't just totally trust those numbers. So the no.

812
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: Forty thing I think has more of an impact on

813
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 3: that position. But even pass rushers, like there's so few

814
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: guys that ran and it has been a pretty good tell,

815
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: Like there's very few exceptions, as you mentioned Greg of

816
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 3: guys who can't run and attend split don't have that

817
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 3: burst and explosiveness that translate because so much of winning

818
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: as a pass rusher as you get off. So I

819
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: was talking to teams like how are you getting around this?

820
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: And one team I talked to said they have force

821
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: plate jumps, you know, from the combine, and they've used

822
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: that as an indicator of explosiveness and they've tried to

823
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 3: a lot on that. Other coach I talked to said,

824
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: it's never been more important for us to get out

825
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: and work these guys out, to be able to feel

826
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 3: feel it, like you know, you got you got a

827
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: little pad in front of you and you guys doing

828
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 3: to get off. You can feel his takeoff, you can

829
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: feel you know when he gets in you with his hands,

830
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: like what type of explosiveness they have. But it's I

831
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: think it's it's more important to have people to understand

832
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: the scouting side of it now because it's harder than numbers.

833
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: It's a buffet. It's like I'll take I'll take a

834
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: vertical jump. I'm not going to do this. I'll take

835
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 3: one of these, I'm not going to do that.

836
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: Along those lines, I just pulled up Shamar Stewart's relative

837
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: athletic score data, which I think is so he was

838
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 2: a nine nine nine right absolutely, oh yeah, ran super

839
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: fastest straight line, vertical broad There's no agility testing. And

840
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 2: to DJ's point about, well, what are he's seeing on tape,

841
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: I kind of think that shows up and the agility

842
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: is like a big part of the issue.

843
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 3: To me, it's the finish.

844
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 2: It's at the top of his it doesn't quite have

845
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: the bend. It's funny because all of Yeah, So the

846
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: other thing I think that would be concerning about me

847
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: just from because I, like I said, this is almost

848
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: like a mystery, right, Like, Okay, this dude is like

849
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 2: a Donnis. What is going on? So we have to

850
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: solve that mystery. So we try to solve it by

851
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: getting all the contacts. I talked about, how was he used?

852
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: Is it the Georgia defense, how much did he play whatever?

853
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: For me? Like guys, I was like literally just like

854
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: sitting there and watching his reps over and over trying

855
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: to figure out, like, what's going wrong here? What am

856
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: I missing? And something that jumped out to me outside

857
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: of the flexibility is it also shows up against the

858
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: run like he can set a really hard edge and

859
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: he can win and handle you know, pretty much anyone

860
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: who's in his face, but he misses tackles too. He

861
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: kind of flies by here and there. And that's also

862
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: concerning because when we think about production, we're talking just

863
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: about sacks, but I actually think it shows up in

864
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: the run game as well, and that makes me worry

865
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: about whether or not this can be fixed.

866
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you can see in the Missouri game

867
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: he chucks Membu, who's a big, powerful guy. He'll chuck

868
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 3: him at the point of attack like that one off

869
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: play and you show it like oh gosh, like it's

870
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: all in there and set the edge, do all those things.

871
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: And then as Mina's talking about, I love the effort.

872
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 3: He chases plays from the backside like crazy. You'll see

873
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: him run past teammates. He runs past teammates on to

874
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 3: the ball. It plays hard, but then you just kind

875
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: of look down at your paper and you look down

876
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: at your notes, and I'm like, well, I don't really

877
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: have the tackles for loss. I don't really have the

878
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: like impact plays. And you know, so he's a tricky one.

879
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 3: I love how big, strong and explosively is. Combine that

880
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: with how hard he plays, how competitive he is. I

881
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 3: don't want to say that. I mean, the guy's like

882
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: my twenty six or twenty seventh player, first round pick.

883
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: But to me, it's just not an easy evaluation.

884
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah there, that's gonna be the case, maybe more and

885
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: more as these players skip testing. Obviously, he wanted to

886
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: test because if you can test like him, you're going

887
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: to But it was weird, like you said, the futures

888
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: here in terms of not testing DJ this year, it's

889
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of great, Like Tyler Warren didn't test, as you mentioned,

890
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: So that's just gonna be a mystery. Guys that you

891
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: think would test well. For instance, Walter Nolan, who I'm

892
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: fascinated by because to me, his twenty best plays are

893
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: probably better than any defensive player in this draft other

894
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: than Travis hunder And so I was hoping he would

895
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: test and he would pop and it's like that would

896
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: be a fun guy. But he didn't. He didn't test either.

897
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: No one like no one's testing, and I don't know

898
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: that's maybe that's just.

899
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 3: Real quick, just real quick, if you've been paying attention

900
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 3: Dur in the draft process, I'm just gonna this is

901
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 3: just edge rushers, Okay, did not did not run a

902
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 3: forty Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Mike Green, Donovaniza Roku, Nick Gorton,

903
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 3: Jack Sawyer, Josiah Stewart, TJ A. J. T. Tamalau, like

904
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: Oladejo from U C. L A. I mean, like freaking

905
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: almost all of them, like they they just they almost

906
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 3: like they got together and did a blood oath of

907
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 3: like I'm not running, You're not running. None of us

908
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: are running. That's just where we are.

909
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: I feel like you should take it personally, DJ, They're

910
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: just making your life harder, and they're they're doing it

911
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 1: to avoid people like you and and Mina and I again.

912
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 3: But see, I'm a I'm a company guy, and I

913
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: appreciate intrigue at the draft. So now we have more intrigue.

914
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 3: Nobody knows anything that's fair.

915
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk finally about the teams with the most

916
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: draft capital in this twenty twenty five NFL draft. So

917
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: we thought this would be a fun exercise for our

918
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 1: research department to do the teams with the most draft capital.

919
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: The Jaguars are number one on the list, and this

920
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: is using the trade value chart, which you know isn't perfect,

921
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: but there's no perfect one out there. The Jaguars are

922
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: actually number one on this list. They have ten picks.

923
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: The Seahawks, your Seahawks are number two. They had to

924
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: trade away DK Metcalf and Gino Smith to get it,

925
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: but they are number two with an extra second and third.

926
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: The forty nine Ers and Bills to me were really

927
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: interesting names near the top of this list. Extra picks

928
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: throughout the draft for both of those teams. I'm going

929
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: to start with the Jaguars because when we interviewed James Gladstone,

930
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: their GM during the NFL scouting combine, I mentioned to

931
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: him that he had ten picks and he said, well

932
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: for now, and that was his immediate response. So they

933
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: are a team I think could be trading. I assumed

934
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: that they would be trading the surplus of those picks

935
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: to move up and get guys that you want. Like

936
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: looking at that list, mina who stands out to you

937
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: the most.

938
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: As controlling the draft?

939
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: Well, just like that, that are interesting, especially like when

940
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: I thought about the Jaguarts with that, and maybe this

941
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: is a different question about this. This is a draft

942
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: where teams I think are going to get favorites and

943
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: maybe it'll be easy and there's just got to be

944
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot of trades moving up and down.

945
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I think New England is the most fascinating

946
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 2: team in this entire draft to me, outside of any

947
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 2: team that could take a quarterback and was going to

948
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 2: pass in a quarterback is interesting obviously the top three,

949
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: but also the Saints are really interesting too. We can

950
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: tire with them too. But the Patriots I find fascinating

951
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: because I genuinely believe no one is really sure what

952
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: they're going to do it for, right depending on especially

953
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: if Hunter and Carter off the board, whether or not

954
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 2: they feel that's too high for one of the guys

955
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 2: that they've been linked with, or they'd like to trade down.

956
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: Is that even possible? I think though they have all

957
00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: that draft capital, there's such a mandate in this draft

958
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: to make life easier for Drake may and I think

959
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 2: they're especially I compare it on my pod to going

960
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 2: to the grocery store hungry. It's like they didn't address

961
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: their needs on offense. I liked the deg signing, but

962
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: they go into this. They came into free agency with

963
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 2: laring knees and they came out of it with laring needs.

964
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: So that leads me to wonder, not just about pick four,

965
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 2: but are they going to be aggressive to get an

966
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: offensive tackle or ride receiver at any point in this draft?

967
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: Because I hope so frankly for Drake Maysake.

968
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gosh, I please get a left tackle. And

969
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 3: that's the thing. It's like, I know, you know, the

970
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 3: these tackles have holes in them, and it's like, gosh,

971
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I love the value of where

972
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 3: they're picking. Ideally you slide back, get some extra picks

973
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: and still get your tackle. But if they're stuck almost man,

974
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 3: they can't run out there with what they ran out

975
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 3: there with last year. They just can't. So that that

976
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 3: is intrigued there with to me. The fascinating one that

977
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 3: I think is just to huge draft is San Francisco. Yes,

978
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 3: this team is they are venturing into a new world.

979
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: They've been living in before contract and now they're getting

980
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: to venture into the after contract world. And we've seen

981
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 3: it Mina. You saw it with Seattle, Like there's just

982
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 3: that's they already saw the damage, the carnage in the

983
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: off season of who's gone and who left this team,

984
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: and you can say, okay, well some of them were

985
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 3: beat up and hadn't played as well, and yeah, yeah, yeah,

986
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 3: that's a lot of names that they lost a lot

987
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 3: of guys, And so that look not saying they can't win.

988
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 3: They still have their core group of stars. And I

989
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: do like Brock and I think Rock's a perfect player

990
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 3: for that offense, and I have no problem that they're

991
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 3: going to pay him, and that I think that they should.

992
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: But It's gonna put a lot more pressure on them

993
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: to be able to hit on draft picks, and not

994
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 3: just top top of the draft. They're gonna have to

995
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 3: find some cheap Day three starters on.

996
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 2: This team, sneakily. So many needs on this roster, right,

997
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: I mean, offensive line, multiple positions, gotta start planning for

998
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: a post George Kittle future at tight end, even take

999
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: a receiver, entire defensive line, you go anywhere there corner

1000
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: is a glaring one. Yeah, safety, I mean, god dang,

1001
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: they could go in any direction.

1002
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: I think has to have who has to have a

1003
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: higher batting average than them, Like looking around the team,

1004
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 3: they have to have a high batting average in this draft.

1005
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: Miami stands out to me as another one. But you're

1006
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: absolutely right when you look at San Francisco's roster, it's

1007
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: just the defensive line is decayed so bad. It's not

1008
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: necessarily just worrying about the brock Party contract that's gonna come.

1009
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: It's the contract that didn't work out on the defensive line,

1010
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: like Javon Hargrave. That was an injury ultimately, but their

1011
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: defensive tackle group is about as thin as any group

1012
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: in the league. They don't have a second edge, and

1013
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: that's what you think about. They don't have a second

1014
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: linebacker necessarily. They love next to Fred Warner. They have

1015
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: eighty point nine million dollars in dead money this year.

1016
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: The Rams who have a ton too, they have fifty million.

1017
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: Should be looking at the forty nine Ers and Seahawks

1018
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: as the two highest teams in dead money this year

1019
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: and think of like this is go time. Can we

1020
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: can win this division right now? Because these other two

1021
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: teams are hurting And it's crazy because the forty nine Ers,

1022
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: they still have a lot of great players and I

1023
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 1: don't want to discount them because ultimately, if you're power

1024
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: ranking the best teams over the last five years, like

1025
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: they're probably number two to me and behind the Chiefs

1026
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: even though they haven't gotten that Super Bowl title. And

1027
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: yet this is absolutely a transition year and John Lynch

1028
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: has to earn that money and he's done such a

1029
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: great job over the years. But you do wonder if

1030
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: they had another bad year like this has been an

1031
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: arranged marriage him and Kyle Shannan for a long time.

1032
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: Does that do they stay together forever? He's he's almost

1033
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: talked about wanting to move on Mina.

1034
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: He never had to get egg on his face over

1035
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: the Tree Lance trade because things just worked out for them.

1036
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: A lot of what we're talking about is kind of

1037
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: the consequence of like the lack of trade, you know,

1038
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: draft capital over the last few years. It's actually it's

1039
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: weirdly like it's taken a second to hit the roster.

1040
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: But I actually think we are seeing it a little

1041
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: bit in the roster now because they haven't had a

1042
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: lot of picks in the past, and now they have

1043
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: all these holes on their team. So yeah, it's a

1044
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 2: great pick. By the way, I was thinking about them,

1045
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: DJ when you were talking about Baron, because you know,

1046
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: I was thinking about like, if they take a corner

1047
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: there Baron, they might like him better, but they might

1048
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: not need him with diambdarlonor so could be an interesting

1049
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 2: decision for them in terms of the cornerbacks. But there's

1050
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: a lot of directions they could go in. I have

1051
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: to think they're praying that one of the tackles falls

1052
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 2: to eleven.

1053
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially once you write that check that they're going

1054
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: to write, and you look at all the hierarchy of

1055
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 3: needs on that team protecting the guy you're just getting

1056
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 3: ready to pay all that money too, is pretty high

1057
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 3: up the list.

1058
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: I don't think the seahawkx DM John Schneider has quite

1059
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: as many needs to fill, although there's plenty on offense.

1060
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: But I think he would be high on that list

1061
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: of gms who need to have a good draft to me,

1062
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: and he's got those extra picks, so he's got to

1063
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: make them count. That probably mostly on the offensive side,

1064
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: but it'll be interesting to see like what they do.

1065
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: And then I've got to give the Bills some credit

1066
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: just seeing them on that list. They're a great example

1067
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: of how to stay competitive and it felt like they

1068
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: were retooling their roster for a while, but they have

1069
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: that extra second. They were patient, that was the Stefan

1070
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: Diggs trade. That's why they have the extra second. And

1071
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: they have a bunch of extra late picks too, and

1072
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: they've been good on hitting some late picks. So just

1073
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: just shout out to the Bills I have.

1074
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 3: I have a lot of They're in a weird spot though,

1075
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 3: because they feel like of any team, like who's going

1076
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: to like make the bold move, like just go get

1077
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 3: the last piece of the puzzle. But it's like this draft,

1078
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 3: I don't know who that guy is, Like, who would

1079
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: they view as that piece that they would want to

1080
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 3: use some of this capital and just run up the

1081
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: board and go get I don't. I don't really see

1082
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 3: who that.

1083
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: Is, so I it's gonna be fascinating. One of the

1084
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: most unpredictable drafts I think is coming of our lifetime,

1085
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: very predictable. That it was fun having you on MINA.

1086
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: I know DJ is joining you later in the week.

1087
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: Is that true he's on NFL And is he joining

1088
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: the mena Time Show featuring Lenny as well? Or no,

1089
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: he is.

1090
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: He's doing my final war Room mock draft, which I've

1091
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: done three of them thus far. Very fun. It's like,

1092
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: as we speed around the first round, I give two

1093
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 2: choices to the guest. I've been doing trades. I'll see

1094
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: if I do trades. So far, nobody has bit by

1095
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: the way on my cam Ward with one, or I've

1096
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: offered like mega halls for that pick from the Giants.

1097
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: I might have to make it so enticing that I

1098
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: forced the issue with DJ, but we'll see. You have

1099
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: to listen to find out. Go check out the Meda

1100
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: Time Show.

1101
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah that would be great, and yeah, we are only

1102
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: a week away from the NFL Draft. Thanks Mina and DJ.

1103
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: We got we got one more of these before the

1104
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: big day. That's it for forties and free agents. Next

1105
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: time we talk to you, it will be draft week.