Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind a
Speaker 2: listener mail. My name is Robert Lamb.
Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and Hey, today we're going
Speaker 3: to be reading back a batch of messages from our
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Speaker 3: being featured on a listener mail episode like this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and hey. We also have a discord server.
Speaker 2: If you want to join that, email us at the
Speaker 2: same address and we'll send you the like.
Speaker 3: Let's see, Rob, how about we start off with this
Speaker 3: response to our shield Wall episodes from our listener, Ahmed,
Speaker 3: do you want to read this or should I?
Speaker 2: Sure? Sure, I'll read this one, Ahmed says, Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: Ahmed again here. I just listened to your first episode
Speaker 2: about the speculation around captured Roman legionarias in Western China
Speaker 2: and thought of another firmer example of different cultures meeting
Speaker 2: and our knowledge of that via armor cling it coin
Speaker 2: armor Here's one example, but you can easily find others online.
Speaker 3: And then Rob, I pulled in a couple of images
Speaker 3: of what Ahmed linked here into the outline, but I
Speaker 3: think it's some kind of hide or leather base. And
Speaker 3: then on top of that, there is just this array
Speaker 3: of metal coins, all side by side, sort of strung
Speaker 3: together that creates a scale like formation. Actually, to come
Speaker 3: back to the image of fish scales.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's quite impressive. You know, I believe I
Speaker 2: had read about this at some point in the past,
Speaker 2: but I don't know that I've ever seen an example
Speaker 2: of it in person, and for that matter, I'm not
Speaker 2: even sure i've seen a photo of it before. I
Speaker 2: think I just read like a casual mention somewhere or another.
Speaker 2: But Ahmed continues and says the Tlinket of Pacific Northwest
Speaker 2: were involved in both conflict and trade with Russians looking
Speaker 2: for fur in the sixteen hundreds of the eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 2: and through them were exposed to Chinese Chian coins, whose
Speaker 2: central doughnut hole made for an easy way to secure
Speaker 2: the coins into a layer. This is one of those
Speaker 2: examples that exist squarely in the historical record, But I
Speaker 2: often think about how nuts it would seem if it
Speaker 2: did not, and we had to guess that the links
Speaker 2: that brought Chinese currency into this use in North America.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Even beyond this example, I think the Tlingett and other
Speaker 2: Pacific Coast people like the Hata had some of the
Speaker 2: coolest and most unique armor in North America, with elaborately
Speaker 2: carved heavy wooden armor, often covering the trunk as well
Speaker 2: as the neck and head, leaving just a slit for
Speaker 2: the eyes.
Speaker 3: And again here rob I pulled in a picture that
Speaker 3: Ahmed linked into the outline. This is of armor, the
Speaker 3: armor he mentioned in a museum collection today and this
Speaker 3: also looks very interesting, very cool, Like the armored part
Speaker 3: on the torso is composed of kind of ribs, like
Speaker 3: vertically aligned ribs that all all go side to side
Speaker 3: around the lower part of the torso, and then a
Speaker 3: narrower plate of ribs like that coming up through the chest. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then the helmet part of it is fascinating. It's
Speaker 3: sort of bullet shaped, coming up into a cone on
Speaker 3: the top with beautiful like red and orange decorations, and
Speaker 3: then below that the carvings on the face have a
Speaker 3: kind of monstrous marine mammal face kind of design. Is
Speaker 3: that what you're seeing too?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's very cool. Ahmed continues
Speaker 2: here and says, for anybody interested in this, I highly
Speaker 2: recommend the book Native North American Armor, Shields and Fortifications
Speaker 2: by David Jones. It makes it clear that while we
Speaker 2: do not typically think of the indigenous people of North
Speaker 2: America being armored, that's because we imagine them largely in
Speaker 2: the firearm age. Just like contemporary European armies who came
Speaker 2: from a tradition of heavy armor. Think of a medieval
Speaker 2: versus a Napoleonic soldier, Indigenous Americans put protection aside in
Speaker 2: favor of mobility. Once firearms made heavy armor and shields obsolete,
Speaker 2: with some interesting exceptions in areas like the Great Plains
Speaker 2: and the Pueblo cultures where shields had spiritual significance. It's
Speaker 2: a great look at the very diverse cultural spheres in
Speaker 2: pre colonial North America seen through the lens of military defenses. Anyways,
Speaker 2: keep up the great work, Amed.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much, Ahmed. Yeah, this was really interesting.
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing with us. In fact, you always
Speaker 3: write such great emails. Please get in touch after every
Speaker 3: series we do.
Speaker 2: All right, looks like we received some listener mail related
Speaker 2: to our series on cynicism.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's see, Rob, you want me to do this
Speaker 3: one from Tea? Yeah, Tea says morning fellas loved the
Speaker 3: series on cynicism. If you'd be so kind to throw
Speaker 3: it back into the Saturday Mix in a few months,
Speaker 3: I'd like to listen to it again after some time
Speaker 3: to reflect. Can't promise anything, Tea. Usually we let it
Speaker 3: around a year ago by maybe before we do a rerun,
Speaker 3: but it varies some but you will probably hear it
Speaker 3: again anyway. Of course, you can listen to it anytime
Speaker 3: you want, right, Yeah, yeah, the magic of asynchronous media,
Speaker 3: So Tea goes on to say, one thing I did
Speaker 3: want to point out is that legitimate companies are training
Speaker 3: their customer base to be cynical to anything that seems
Speaker 3: to be communication from them. The fish and the smishers
Speaker 3: have gotten so good. I'm not sure if I know
Speaker 3: the phrase smishers fishers of course, is you know, people
Speaker 3: fishing for information through like emails and stuff smishers? Would
Speaker 3: that be SMS fishers.
Speaker 2: Text message pad too that I just I know from
Speaker 2: context of the sentence that they're bad as well, and
Speaker 2: I don't trust them. Actually, JJ just confirmed for us
Speaker 2: that smishers does in fact mean that, which is nice
Speaker 2: because now I have a nicer name for them than
Speaker 2: the one I usually call them when when I get
Speaker 2: one of these messages on my phone.
Speaker 3: But if it's SMS, why are they smishers and not smissshers?
Speaker 2: I think you answered your own question there.
Speaker 3: Anyway, Tea Rights, I'm adjacent to the mortgage industry, and
Speaker 3: part of our product sends out emails about paying your
Speaker 3: mortgage or things that happened on your account. We actively
Speaker 3: avoid putting links to anything in those emails, simply so
Speaker 3: the instructions to the customers can be to never click
Speaker 3: on links and emails that seem to be about your mortgage.
Speaker 3: Always go log into the portal. The text messages we
Speaker 3: send out never have an actionable link in them. They're
Speaker 3: all essentially this payment was made to your account. If
Speaker 3: you have questions, log into your portal. And this is
Speaker 3: also the customer service can reiterate to the customers to
Speaker 3: not click on things about your mortgage. If you've bought
Speaker 3: a house recently, likely there are footers at the bottom
Speaker 3: of your agent's emails, your lenders emails, your title attorney's emails, etc.
Speaker 3: Saying to not trust any wiring instructions without verifying first.
Speaker 3: There are some real horror stories of fishers getting to
Speaker 3: a buyer at just the wrong time and having them
Speaker 3: wire their down payment for the house to them instead
Speaker 3: of the Escro agent. Thanks as always, Tea from Florida. Yeah,
Speaker 3: te this is really interesting and I have a number
Speaker 3: of thoughts here. This actually connects to something I've said
Speaker 3: on the show. I think months or even years ago
Speaker 3: before we did the Cynicism series, and so I'll come
Speaker 3: back to that in a minute. But I remember when
Speaker 3: I was not too long ago going through the mortgage process,
Speaker 3: we got lots of warnings exactly like this, that we
Speaker 3: would likely be hammered with attempted scams, you know, while
Speaker 3: you're involved in getting a mortgage, or when you've recently
Speaker 3: gotten a mortgage, Just be aware of that. Also, all
Speaker 3: this stuff you're mentioning, don't wire money except to this
Speaker 3: exact account. Ignore emails giving you a link to click on,
Speaker 3: or saying that account details have changed, stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And I would argue that this kind of particular preparation
Speaker 3: within the mortgage lending scenario falls more under the reasonable
Speaker 3: social skepticism umbrella than under social cynicism. And remember in
Speaker 3: the series, we made the distinction that, at least as
Speaker 3: we were using the terms, skepticism is like doing your
Speaker 3: best to either grant or withhold trust on the basis
Speaker 3: of evidence. You're looking for objective clues, objective information about
Speaker 3: the trustworthiness of a person or situation, whereas cynicism is
Speaker 3: a bias, it's an evidence neutral bias against trust. So
Speaker 3: another way I'd put it relevant to your example t
Speaker 3: is that I would not call it cynical to be
Speaker 3: cautious of scams in a situation where scams are very
Speaker 3: common and very dangerous. It would be cynical to be
Speaker 3: cautious of scams in a situation where you have no
Speaker 3: good reason or evidence to suspect a scam is taking place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, it's cynical to assume everyone is Jason Vorhees,
Speaker 2: but it's it's healthy to assume that anyone wandering through
Speaker 2: the woods in a hockey mask with a big old
Speaker 2: machete is Jason Vorhees. And that's what and that's the
Speaker 2: thing most of these sketchy emails and texts are. They
Speaker 2: are very sketchy for a reason, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess some are more convincing than others, obviously, But yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a healthy amount of skepticism that people are
Speaker 2: employing here.
Speaker 3: Great analogy, exactly right. So yeah, so I would call
Speaker 3: this like reasonable situation skepticism rather than cynicism. On the
Speaker 3: other hand, tee, I think I get exactly the point
Speaker 3: you're driving at. We looked at a bunch of studies
Speaker 3: in the Cynicism series pointing to the fact that a
Speaker 3: person's level of social cynicism is I think partly an
Speaker 3: aspect of their fixed personality, but it's partly, not partially.
Speaker 3: It is something that can fluctuate, According to our experiences,
Speaker 3: and so I would suspect that having to deal with
Speaker 3: a lot of situations in which a reasonable evidence based
Speaker 3: approach is to be very wary and stingy with trust,
Speaker 3: that having those sorts of experiences could sort of bump
Speaker 3: up your general cynical biases in unrelated areas of life,
Speaker 3: whether or not those biases are actually protecting you the
Speaker 3: same way they would in these situations rife with scams.
Speaker 3: And another thing is beyond just like the mortgage process,
Speaker 3: certain things about modern life I would say, especially about
Speaker 3: communications technology, I think have the toxic effect of creating
Speaker 3: a digitally ever present threat of scams because the Internet
Speaker 3: and also various forms of computer based automation have made
Speaker 3: scamming so much more efficient in the last couple decades.
Speaker 3: Like you can you know, it used to be real
Speaker 3: work to develop each scam lead, you know, back in
Speaker 3: the day, and now you can just spam millions of
Speaker 3: people with attempts to initiate an email or text message
Speaker 3: scam at extremely little cost. And even more, sort of
Speaker 3: customized or targeted scams are easier to confect with the
Speaker 3: digital tools available today. So even though in most aspects
Speaker 3: of life, most people most of the time are still
Speaker 3: very trustworthy. The fact that you are always digitally a
Speaker 3: few clicks away from an ever present threat of having
Speaker 3: your identity still in or having somebody steal your life savings,
Speaker 3: that the proximity of that threat throughout your entire life now,
Speaker 3: I think, just kind of waters the weeds of cynicism
Speaker 3: so that they grow everywhere in your mind, not just
Speaker 3: where they belong, like which is like on sketchy looking
Speaker 3: emails and text messages. And so given all this, I
Speaker 3: think I've said this on the show before, I believe
Speaker 3: that it is underappreciated how maliciously influential internet and phone
Speaker 3: based scams are in our culture today, not just because
Speaker 3: of people's material losses. I mean, I think almost everybody
Speaker 3: knows somebody or has a has a close relative who's
Speaker 3: lost a bunch of money to some like, you know,
Speaker 3: to an email or phone scammer. But it's not just
Speaker 3: the material losses which can be devastating. It's because the
Speaker 3: presence of these types of scams viciously undermines general social trust,
Speaker 3: which I think we now have even better reason to
Speaker 3: believe and a better underst standing of how that kind
Speaker 3: of generalized cynicism is a really really bad thing for
Speaker 3: each individual and for the culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like it's honestly ruined some
Speaker 2: forms of communication, Like I don't answer my phone. Like
Speaker 2: if someone calls me, I just assume that it's some
Speaker 2: sort of at worst nefarious force, but perhaps just some
Speaker 2: sort of like a cold call, you know, trying to
Speaker 2: get me to donate money and sometimes to a good cause.
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to do that over the phone
Speaker 2: because of all the scammers. So you know, I just
Speaker 2: been like, all right, let it go to voicemail and
Speaker 2: I will probably delete it there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, our digital and communications environment has created an asymmetrical
Speaker 3: scam thread where it's weird that I think it really
Speaker 3: still is the case that you can trust most people
Speaker 3: most of the time, but at the same time, through
Speaker 3: electronic communication, a scammer is always just is right there
Speaker 3: waiting for you. You know, they're like a picked up
Speaker 3: phone call or a text message reply away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've made the world smaller in a lot of
Speaker 2: wonderful ways, but also in a lot of terrifying ways.
Speaker 2: So I might not put my faith in phone calls anymore.
Speaker 2: Maybe I should put my faith instead into mystery cults.
Speaker 2: We of course did a series on mystery cults, and
Speaker 2: we continue to hear back from some folks about this topic.
Speaker 2: This one comes to us from Lex like says, super
Speaker 2: short message, but this was too funny and on point
Speaker 2: not to send your way. In your episodes about mystery cults,
Speaker 2: you discussed that certain techniques or special special effects might
Speaker 2: be off putting because they seem deceptive or irreverent in
Speaker 2: some way. Looks like some churches are really towing that line,
Speaker 2: and they included a link for us to check out here.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to tell you how to define this.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe you're sure familiar with this already,
Speaker 2: but it involves some sort of a church environment where
Speaker 2: there's like a big drop cloth that presents the this
Speaker 2: kind of like puppet Jesus that rises up from the tomb.
Speaker 2: Am I interpreting this correctly? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's like an altar and then behind it,
Speaker 3: by the way, it looks to me like it's an
Speaker 3: Easter service, but I can't tell for sure, and I
Speaker 3: don't know where or what church this is, but yeah,
Speaker 3: there's like a tapestry in the background showing a golden
Speaker 3: archway and a sunrise landscape. Also electronic dance music is thumping.
Speaker 3: It's like a four on the floor beat. But then
Speaker 3: suddenly the tapestry falls away and it reveals a different painting.
Speaker 3: It's like a blooming garden and a blue sky. And
Speaker 3: then a spring loaded Jesus statue launches up out of
Speaker 3: some hidden device in front of the painting, so that
Speaker 3: his head is framed by like a big painted halo
Speaker 3: on the backdrop. Jesus is also holding a flag looks
Speaker 3: like a red velvet flag. And no judgment by the way,
Speaker 3: you know, religious art and special effects. It's a matter
Speaker 3: of taste to some degree at least, But the switchblade
Speaker 3: Jesus was indeed funny to me. I think the funniest
Speaker 3: part was the speed at which Jesus rises up. He
Speaker 3: had just risen slower, it would have been less funny.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm all for it. Yeah, throw some production
Speaker 2: into it, you know. Puppet Jesus'. Like I say, puppetry
Speaker 2: is a legitimate and very ancient medium. It is an
Speaker 2: art form. Therefore, I think it's perfectly fine. It's great
Speaker 2: that it should be involved in religious rites. It has
Speaker 2: been since time out of mind anyway, Le says, love
Speaker 2: the show and appreciate your hard work to bring it
Speaker 2: to us.
Speaker 3: Happy Friday, Lex, Okay, general call the listeners here, please
Speaker 3: send us more examples of puppetry, animate statues and automata
Speaker 3: used in earnest not for laughs, in religious services. I
Speaker 3: want to see more of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean there are some terrific example. You know,
Speaker 2: very recently my family went and saw a performance of
Speaker 2: Javanese puppetry here at Emory here in Atlanta, Emory University,
Speaker 2: and you know, these are generally they're telling retelling Hindu epics,
Speaker 2: you know, and it is a very traditional and like
Speaker 2: sacred performance. So yeah, I'd love to hear more examples
Speaker 2: of that sort of thing, as well as like contemporary examples,
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of church puppetry out there, like
Speaker 2: in Protestant services, and yeah, that that stuff can be
Speaker 2: can be interesting in its own right as well.
Speaker 3: All right, let's see here we got a message from Carlos.
Speaker 3: This is in response to our series on pretend play
Speaker 3: subject line in defense of Vygotsky. So, Rob, it's been
Speaker 3: a little while since we did this episode, so I've
Speaker 3: kind of forgotten the context of The person here that
Speaker 3: Carlos is talking about is the twentieth century Russian psychologist
Speaker 3: Love Vygotsky. Can you can you remind me what the
Speaker 3: context was in the episode that Vygotsky came up.
Speaker 2: Basically, I think we were talking more about the ideas
Speaker 2: of doctor Sandra Russ. There's a paper talking about her
Speaker 2: ideas and also comparing some of her ideas to those
Speaker 2: of Viogotsky. If memory serves though, I don't think any
Speaker 2: of Russ's ideas were like necessarily tearing down Vogotsky, but
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like building upon them. But then again,
Speaker 2: I think that the comments here that Carlos wrote in
Speaker 2: about it are fair. So yeah, let's good and hear him.
Speaker 3: Okay, Carlos says, Hey, y'all just wanted to write in
Speaker 3: to defend Vygotsky, whom you featured in your recent episodes
Speaker 3: on imagination and play. In your episode, he came off
Speaker 3: as stodgy and anti play, but I'm not sure that's fair.
Speaker 3: I was already acquainted with his work as it pertains
Speaker 3: to art and literature, especially his the psychology of art.
Speaker 3: In this work, he seems to really appreciate the value
Speaker 3: of art. While this isn't quite the same as play,
Speaker 3: it definitely gets into the importance of the imagination. Just
Speaker 3: a couple of quotes from the Mit Press Edition nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy one. Quote, Thus, poetry or art is a special
Speaker 3: way of thinking which, in the final analysis, leads to
Speaker 3: the same results as scientific knowledge, but in a different way.
Speaker 3: And then also quote, psychological investigation reveals that art is
Speaker 3: the supreme center of biological and social individual processes in society,
Speaker 3: that it is a method for finding an equilibrium between
Speaker 3: man and his world in the most critical and important
Speaker 3: stages in his life. And then Carlos picks up again,
Speaker 3: not directly related to play, but he does seem to
Speaker 3: have a great appreciation for the role of creativity, perhaps
Speaker 3: above and beyond productivity in society.
Speaker 2: Thanks Carlos, Yeah, yeah, well, thanks for writing in, Carlos,
Speaker 2: A point well taken. And these are also some wonderful
Speaker 2: quotes here. All right, let's get into a little weird
Speaker 2: house cinema listener mail. It looks like we're continuing to
Speaker 2: hear from folks about the telephone box. This one comes
Speaker 2: to us from Bo. Bo says, Hi, guys, I love
Speaker 2: your show and have listened for years. I'm a little
Speaker 2: behind in the moment, but I was thrilled to hear
Speaker 2: your episode on La Caabina. This struck a chord with me.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that some films or movies viewed as a
Speaker 2: child may leave a lasting impression, and for me this
Speaker 2: was the one. I'm Norwegian but lived a few years
Speaker 2: in Spain as a child in the seventies. At the time,
Speaker 2: there were only two TV channels there, both controlled by
Speaker 2: the regime. TV one was the news propaganda channel and
Speaker 2: TV two was a bit more for entertainment. Mind you,
Speaker 2: no channels apping, as you had to go over to
Speaker 2: the TV and push a button to change the channel.
Speaker 3: Good old days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, one day, watching whatever was on TV two,
Speaker 2: this film was shown. This was in seventy three or
Speaker 2: seventy four, so it was a rerun. I was twelve
Speaker 2: or thirteen, and it started out as funny, that is
Speaker 2: until the end, which scared the Bejesus out of me
Speaker 2: and gave me nightmares for some time, and it definitely
Speaker 2: became unforgettable. At the same time, of course, I had
Speaker 2: no idea about the symbolism of the film. The director
Speaker 2: says that the film can be interpreted in many ways,
Speaker 2: which is true, but for me, in the grown up hindsight,
Speaker 2: it is clearly a political statement. Remember that disappearances actually
Speaker 2: happened at this time under the Franco regime. What happened
Speaker 2: to those people, Well, obviously they did not end up
Speaker 2: in telephone boxes in a bunker. But this is what
Speaker 2: the film carefully addresses. And then we get a bullet list. Here.
Speaker 2: The surveillance view of the plaza may may be someone
Speaker 2: pushing the button. If someone suspicious enters the box, the
Speaker 2: tie is key as a symbol of nonconformity, a slash suspicion.
Speaker 2: The other guy caught in a separate box also has
Speaker 2: an unusual tie. We talked about the pattern a bit above,
Speaker 2: all these times with a dotted pattern. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: there is a short scene during the transport where a
Speaker 2: guy who exits a red telephone box with no problem.
Speaker 2: He wears a nice neutral gray tie.
Speaker 3: H I didn't notice that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the mindless telecompany workers, non thinking and just doing
Speaker 2: their job, actually symbolizing normal people not wanting to upset anything.
Speaker 2: The apartment complex building, the uniform, the uniform frame for
Speaker 2: the followers, and the circus performers are the marginalized weirdos
Speaker 2: that are non threatening to the regime, providing plausible excuse
Speaker 2: for openness. I could go on, the bottom line is
Speaker 2: that this film deeply touched me and I am glad
Speaker 2: that you covered it. Bes regards Bo now living in Copenhagen.
Speaker 3: Well thanks, Bo, I think, yeah, you make some great
Speaker 3: points there. I think we talked about this in the episode.
Speaker 3: But my take on it was despite the director saying that,
Speaker 3: you know, the film could be interpreted as being about
Speaker 3: whatever kind of box metaphorically you are trapped in, it
Speaker 3: just struck me as that it had to at some
Speaker 3: level be a political analysis like that it was a
Speaker 3: political comment, especially when some of the comments the director
Speaker 3: made about it not being a direct critique of the
Speaker 3: Franco regime were made early on, where it seems like
Speaker 3: he may have thought he had to say that, right,
Speaker 3: you know, in order to actually get it out, he
Speaker 3: had to say no, no, no, this isn't a threatening
Speaker 3: piece of art. It seems to me like it obviously is.
Speaker 3: It's clearly supposed to be politically subversive, though I can
Speaker 3: also believe that it had these secondary meanings as well,
Speaker 3: that it's not just a political allegory. It's just like
Speaker 3: it can mean a lot of things, and there is
Speaker 3: one thing especially that it seems to mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting thinking about how repressive regimes take
Speaker 2: art that is open to interpretation, because I think, you know,
Speaker 2: there are plenty of examples of skilled artists being able
Speaker 2: to sneak something by them sneak commentary and criticism and
Speaker 2: so forth past the sensors. But then there are, you know,
Speaker 2: any number of cases where the sensors are latching onto
Speaker 2: things that maybe do not have a political intention, but
Speaker 2: since you know, they're vague enough, since they are open
Speaker 2: to interpretation, they are open to criticism from any given
Speaker 2: regime anyway, Both, thanks for writing in. I do always
Speaker 2: enjoy hearing about how listeners encounter these different movies and
Speaker 2: shows in the wild in their lives and the influence
Speaker 2: of those films had over their lives. So yeah, thanks
Speaker 2: for writing in.
Speaker 3: Totally Thanks both, all right, This next Weird House Cinema
Speaker 3: message is from Megan. Meghan says, Hello, I would like
Speaker 3: to recommend a film for Weird House Cinema. The nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty eight Canadian horror film called pin Pi. In Canadians
Speaker 3: around my age of forty nine, may remember it, however,
Speaker 3: I know I always conflated it with The Changeling, a
Speaker 3: more well known Canadian horror movie, since the box ard
Speaker 3: for both films use imagery of a spooky wheelchair both movies. Also,
Speaker 3: both movies always looked very frightening to me, so I
Speaker 3: only recently decided to finally watch Pin. I would classify
Speaker 3: it as odd and uncomfortable and having some Freudian slash
Speaker 3: adult themes, but not really scary. Two fun facts, the
Speaker 3: male protagonist acted in a Canadian classic you've just talked
Speaker 3: about in listener mail, and that is Cube, not Jim
Speaker 3: Henson's The Cube, but the Canadian I don't know puzzle
Speaker 3: horror movie Cube, where people are in a bunch of
Speaker 3: cubes and most of the cubes have like a razor
Speaker 3: that cuts you apart or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we may coming back to that one in
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema. It's become a classic in its own way.
Speaker 3: Did I mention this last time that Cube is one
Speaker 3: of those movies where I saw its terrible sequels before
Speaker 3: I saw the original.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't remember if you did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I first saw Cube two Hypercube. I
Speaker 3: don't know if i'd say that one's worth it, but
Speaker 3: I worked my way back to the original and it's
Speaker 3: been many, many years, but I remember liking it at
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: I remember the scene in which the dude is cut
Speaker 2: into little cubes by wires being like just super impressive
Speaker 2: at the time. I think the cubes within cubes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was the main thing I connected with back then,
Speaker 2: was that that was a really cool that was a
Speaker 2: quality kill, not so much some of the the ideas
Speaker 2: bound up in the concept, so that one would be
Speaker 2: a fun one for me to revisit, for sure.
Speaker 3: Let's see. Megan goes on to say, I have a
Speaker 3: personal connection to pen because a second cousin of mine,
Speaker 3: Bronwyn Mantle, plays the mother. Okay, anyway, this film isn't
Speaker 3: as wild as my previous recommendation, treasurer of the Four Crowns,
Speaker 3: but it might be a good one to watch if
Speaker 3: you like, if you'd like to explore some Canadian content. Megan,
Speaker 3: that was you. We actually took your recommendation and covered
Speaker 3: Treasure of the Four Crowns on Weird House. Absolutely not
Speaker 3: one of the better movies we have watched, but I
Speaker 3: have very fond memories of covering it on the show.
Speaker 3: That one often comes to mind when I think about
Speaker 3: how the quality of our Weird House episode seems to
Speaker 3: be kind of unrelated to the quality of the films.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you never know what's gonna Sometimes it's just
Speaker 2: great to talk about a great film. Other times, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe more often than not, the ones I really get
Speaker 2: into are films that are rougher around the edges, but
Speaker 2: have those gems embedded in them that he's kind of
Speaker 2: have to dig out with your fingernails. I don't call
Speaker 2: what the real gems inside that particular movie were, but
Speaker 2: I think we did find a few.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it had fewer gyms than most I think, but
Speaker 3: it was still. Like I've said about several things recently,
Speaker 3: it is not good, but it's a good time anyway.
Speaker 3: Megan says, as always, thank you for all the wonderful content,
Speaker 3: both the regular science episodes and all the fun bonus content.
Speaker 3: I love it all. Smiley face emoticon Megan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have not seen Ken, but it is notable
Speaker 2: that it's based on a novel by and Andrew Niederman,
Speaker 2: who also wrote the book that the Devil's Advocate is
Speaker 2: based upon the al Pacino Devil Lawyer movie from the nineties.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We were just talking about that movie off Mike
Speaker 3: before we started here today, and I have a very
Speaker 3: specific memory of being a kid in the nineties and
Speaker 3: thinking about the Devil's Advocate. This is a serious movie
Speaker 3: for grown ups?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it did have that air at
Speaker 2: the time. I have not seen it since it came out,
Speaker 2: though I have.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a serious movie for grown ups,
Speaker 3: but anyway, looking at Pin, it looks to me so
Speaker 3: it's like a kind of bizarre psychological horror thriller. It's
Speaker 3: got like weird family relationships and murders. The main premise,
Speaker 3: from what I can tell, is that there's a doctor
Speaker 3: played by Terry O'Quinn who creates an anatomically realistic human
Speaker 3: dummy named Pin to use in educating his small children
Speaker 3: about medicine and the human body. Unfortunately, I think at
Speaker 3: least one of his children sort of turns into Norman Bates,
Speaker 3: but sub in this dummy instead of Norman Bates his mother.
Speaker 2: Hmm, all right, that doesn't sound good.
Speaker 3: Also, Robie attached a screenshot of what the dummy looks
Speaker 3: like there appear to be a couple of varieties. There's
Speaker 3: a skin on and skin off variety, and yeah, super creepy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I agree, this is a very creepy
Speaker 2: looking dummy for sure. Skin on also it's pretty bad
Speaker 2: skin skin off is creepier skin but I don't know,
Speaker 2: skin on is also kind of creepy, So yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: You know, I've actually been very interested in doing some
Speaker 2: sort of ventral equos dummy horror film at some point
Speaker 2: or Another one that I had been considering already is
Speaker 2: the film Devil Do all black and white picture that
Speaker 2: some of you remember from Mystery Science three thousand. But
Speaker 2: then we also had listeners. A listener write in with
Speaker 2: a recommendation for another one that's kind of been on
Speaker 2: my radar.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, right, So our listener, Chris says, Hey, Joe
Speaker 3: and Robert, I would like to recommend the nineteen seventy
Speaker 3: eight film Magic, starring Anthony Hopkins and Burgess Meredith. It's
Speaker 3: sort of an evil dummy made Me do it movie,
Speaker 3: though there's more to it than that, Chris says. Hopkins
Speaker 3: does an outstanding performance for what is this essentially a
Speaker 3: ninety minute episode of Tales from the Crypt to keep
Speaker 3: up the great work, guys, Chris.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, Yeah. Attenborough screenplay by William Goldman, based on
Speaker 2: his novel So yeah, it's there are a number of
Speaker 2: attractive elements here. You know.
Speaker 3: I think I was just browsing recently and there's a
Speaker 3: vinegar syndrome blu ray of devil doll.
Speaker 2: Ooh okay, yeah that's right. I think I got an
Speaker 2: email about that. Yeah, have to check that one out.
Speaker 2: That's one that I remember, even in its Mystery Science
Speaker 2: Theater three thousand and form, I found pretty unsettling, just
Speaker 2: something about it. Its tone, and there's kind of like
Speaker 2: a dead pan uncanniness to it. This next one comes
Speaker 2: to us from Oh it's another Robert. That's why I
Speaker 2: was thrown off guard there this Robert says. Dear Robert
Speaker 2: and Joe. First, thanks for a wonderfully varied podcast. I
Speaker 2: listened regularly on my walk to and from the university,
Speaker 2: where I can each creative writing. I just heard the
Speaker 2: listener Mail episode from April third, twenty twenty five, and
Speaker 2: noted one of the suggestions for the upcoming anniversary is
Speaker 2: the Japanese film Wild Zero. Hearing it brought me back
Speaker 2: to seeing the film in grand style at the Fantasia
Speaker 2: Festival in Montreal in nineteen ninety nine. The director Tatsuro
Speaker 2: Takuci was in attendance, and I recall him looking fab
Speaker 2: in a silver sequin blazer and a feather boa, along
Speaker 2: with an entourage of twelve or fifteen comrades, all dressed
Speaker 2: in the over the top Shibuya chai style popular in
Speaker 2: Tokyo at the time. The film's a science fiction rock
Speaker 2: and roll, zombie apocalypse comedy romance gender bender, and it
Speaker 2: holds a very special place in my heart. The real
Speaker 2: life band at the center of the story, Guitar Wolf,
Speaker 2: was the inspiration for a fictional band that appears in
Speaker 2: one of my children's novels, The Creature Department, a band
Speaker 2: with a name I know you'll enjoy, Boris Minor and
Speaker 2: the Carlofs. It might not make the anniversary episode, but
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear Wild Zero get the weird House treatment.
Speaker 2: Very kind regards Robert.
Speaker 3: As I think I said last time, I saw this
Speaker 3: movie way back when I was in high school, and
Speaker 3: I remember it made a very positive impression on me
Speaker 3: then it I remember it had the feeling of a
Speaker 3: movie with a real zest for life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually never saw it, but I'm very familiar
Speaker 2: with seeing it's poster art, you know, definitely, you know,
Speaker 2: going to places where I could rent or see movies
Speaker 2: or learn about movies. I do remember seeing this box
Speaker 2: art a lot.
Speaker 3: All right, This next message is from uber Cthulhu. Uber
Speaker 3: Cthulhu says, And by the way, you know, friends, you
Speaker 3: can always write in with the pseudonym. Just specify. We'll
Speaker 3: use whatever name you give us, and if you use
Speaker 3: your real name, we'll just use your first name. Uber
Speaker 3: Cuthulhu says, Hey, guys, I absolutely love your shows. I
Speaker 3: listened to them regularly. You have a masterful way of
Speaker 3: dissecting and appreciating the films you feature. Thank you. I'm
Speaker 3: curious if you have ever done a show on the equinox.
Speaker 3: It is a film that I saw once at about
Speaker 3: age eight and never came across again for many years,
Speaker 3: but it really made an impression on my youthful, malleable brain.
Speaker 3: Fast forward about thirty five years and I was having
Speaker 3: a conversation with a great, dearly departed friend of mine
Speaker 3: about strange films that we had seen. He turned out
Speaker 3: to be the only other person I had ever met
Speaker 3: that had seen it. In any case, I sought it
Speaker 3: out and after a long search in almost eighty dollars,
Speaker 3: I procured it. Wow, it's just as strange as I remember.
Speaker 3: In a few words, I will describe it as young
Speaker 3: couples in a woodsy area trying to picnic, beset by
Speaker 3: demonic possession, other dimensions, and Ray Harryhausen type creatures. Oh boy,
Speaker 3: you know how to get our attention, Uber Cuthulhu says,
Speaker 3: and get this. It features a young young Herb Tarlik
Speaker 3: from WKRP in Cincinnati. Anyway, sorry to be long winded,
Speaker 3: love your shows, please feature it. Uber Cthulhu out peace,
Speaker 3: Love getting tidings of peace from uber Cuthulhu. But also, wow,
Speaker 3: I was not previously aware of this movie. I looked
Speaker 3: it up and it looks good. According to what I've read,
Speaker 3: it sounds like a combination of the original Evil Dead
Speaker 3: and a movie that I've seen called The Daytime Ended One. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like where a family goes to a house in
Speaker 3: the desert to be repeatedly subjected to encounters with special
Speaker 3: effects reels. It's mostly stop motion dinosaurs, but also there's
Speaker 3: like a looks like a Betamax camera that floats around
Speaker 3: in the air.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I compare it to that because so, like
Speaker 3: Uber Cuthulhu said, Equinox is about a group of young
Speaker 3: people who go up for a picnic. I think they're
Speaker 3: in southern California. But the Evil Dead comparison is, I
Speaker 3: think they find a book which allows them to summon
Speaker 3: various demons. And then the other element is these demons
Speaker 3: are of a of Harry House in Persuasion. So I've
Speaker 3: found a stream of it online and I was just
Speaker 3: like skipping through to various parts. There's one part in
Speaker 3: the middle where a cabin in the woods is being
Speaker 3: attacked by a giant land squid with green thorny arms.
Speaker 3: Then there's another section that's got a monster with like
Speaker 3: three fins on his head and big ribs protruding out
Speaker 3: of his body. Also, at some point, the human characters
Speaker 3: are fighting a big green guy in a pelt who
Speaker 3: looks like a combination of Ega and the Incredible Hulk.
Speaker 3: You see this guy here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen some clips from this film. I've never
Speaker 2: watched it in full. It's my understanding that it's that
Speaker 2: the effects are largely the work of David Allen, who's
Speaker 2: come up on the show before because he's had his
Speaker 2: hand in stop motion effects for so many films, including
Speaker 2: two that we've watched before, The Dungeon Master and Robot Jocks.
Speaker 3: There we go.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd be up for Equinox at some point.
Speaker 2: One I've never seen, but it's kind of been on
Speaker 2: the list for a long time.
Speaker 3: I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Speaker 2: All Right, we're going to close things out here with
Speaker 2: a message from our discord server. This one comes to
Speaker 2: us from hot Nae Palm Death, who writes and it says,
Speaker 2: I was thinking you guys might consider doing the Denzel
Speaker 2: Washington trilogy since you did Virtuosity, Fallen, and Ricochet complete
Speaker 2: the triumvirate of Denzel versus Psycho. You did the sci fi.
Speaker 2: Ricochet is hard drama, but Fallen is supernatural. Otherwise, basically
Speaker 2: the same idea Denzel versus super smart Psycho all came
Speaker 2: out in the nineties.
Speaker 3: I remember Fallen was like a movie that a bunch
Speaker 3: of my friends in high school thought was really cool,
Speaker 3: and I never saw the whole thing. I think I
Speaker 3: saw like a few minutes of it on TV and
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was on in the background, like
Speaker 2: when I was in school or something. Now. Ricochet. I
Speaker 2: do remember seeing that one, because this is something that
Speaker 2: the listener here gets into. But John Lithgow is in
Speaker 2: it playing the villain, and he's a deliciously over the
Speaker 2: top psycho villain in that picture. All right, So they
Speaker 2: continue in there, right. Also, The Quick and the Dead,
Speaker 2: which we mentioned, is particularly good and provides connections to
Speaker 2: so many other things. Russell Crowe, Gene Hackman, Sharon Stone,
Speaker 2: Leonardo DiCaprio, Lance Hendrickson, Keith David All directed by Sam Raimi.
Speaker 2: I fully believe John Lithgow is the most versatile actor
Speaker 2: of his generation. He is great as a villain, both
Speaker 2: subtle dexter realistic but extreme Ricochet and completely over the
Speaker 2: top Buckeroo Bonzai.
Speaker 3: Oh where he's doctor Lizardo in Buffer Bonzai.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he is equally at home in subtle comedy world.
Speaker 2: According to Garth, a normal comedy third Rock from the
Speaker 2: Sun to Zany Buckeroo Bonzai again, or dramatic roles like Footloose,
Speaker 2: Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Terms of Endearment
Speaker 2: and so forth. Yeah, I think that's a solid read
Speaker 2: on John liftgot he he has such a wide range
Speaker 2: and he is He's proven himself believable in so many
Speaker 2: different sorts of roles. I don't know that he's played
Speaker 2: a or I haven't seen him in a villain role
Speaker 2: in a while. So it's at times it's almost it
Speaker 2: almost shakes me to remember that, Oh yeah, this guy
Speaker 2: playing like the sweet old man character has played some
Speaker 2: just vicious psychopaths in his past.
Speaker 3: This is funny. I'm like apparently unusually underexposed to John Lithgow,
Speaker 3: so I know him from Buckaroo Bonzi, where of course
Speaker 3: I love him as he's the villain there. He's got
Speaker 3: like sharp teeth and he's usually got electricity coming out
Speaker 3: of him and stuff. But I never made it to
Speaker 3: his season on Dexter. Never seen Ricochet, never seen the World,
Speaker 3: according to Garp, never seen Third Rock from the Sun
Speaker 3: or Footloose or terms of endearment. I'm just all behind.
Speaker 2: Harry and the Henderson stuff.
Speaker 3: I think I have seen that. It's been a while.
Speaker 2: The most recent thing I think I saw him in
Speaker 2: is the the what they did the two seasons of
Speaker 2: of an new Perry Mason series on HBO that I
Speaker 2: think was underappreciated. I thought it was excellent. John Lithgott
Speaker 2: plays Perry Mason's this this lawyer that he looks up
Speaker 2: to and works for early in his career, and it's
Speaker 2: just it's it's a great performance.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, I did catch him in he was in Conclave.
Speaker 3: I don't want to spoil any spoil anything about Conclave,
Speaker 3: but he's got an interesting role in that.
Speaker 2: That's the movie where they picked the next pope, right,
Speaker 2: that's where they picked the next I don't want to
Speaker 2: spoilers on the pope selection, so I'm not gonna watch
Speaker 2: it until until we get a new Pope.
Speaker 3: I guess actually quite enjoyed Conclave.
Speaker 2: All right, Well i'll have I'll have to give it
Speaker 2: a look. I'll put it on the list of new
Speaker 2: releases right under Death of the Unicorn, Death of Unicorn Conclave.
Speaker 3: For a second, I was mixing up characters though, because
Speaker 3: I was like, wait a minute, is John lithgow the
Speaker 3: the pope candidate who vapes? No, he's not. That's a
Speaker 3: different pope candidate in it. It's got a vaping, perhaps Pope.
Speaker 2: Is this a part of the Jude law? Young Pope
Speaker 2: Hot Pope universe or is this separate?
Speaker 3: No? No, oh, it's not hot. No, it's not especially
Speaker 3: hot or young or hip, but it is interesting.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, We're gonna go ahead and close up
Speaker 2: the mail bag for this episode, but we'd love to
Speaker 2: hear from you all of your Conclave related thoughts and more.
Speaker 2: You can write into us at that email address that
Speaker 2: we reference to the top of the episode, and Joe
Speaker 2: will throw it out again here in a minute as well.
Speaker 2: Let's see other places you can find us on Instagram
Speaker 2: where stbim podcast. If you're on letterbox dot com, you
Speaker 2: can follow weird House there. Use your name weird House.
Speaker 2: We got a nice list of all the movies we've
Speaker 2: covered over the years, and sometimes a peek ahead at
Speaker 2: what comes next Huge things.
Speaker 3: As always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If
Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with
Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a
Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you
Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.
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