Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sex Podcast,
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen version. Yes, we're doing this remotely from
Speaker 1: my bed room to the world. My guest today is
Speaker 1: manager Jake Gold, who happens to be in Toronto as
Speaker 1: we're speaking. Jake, how you doing, Hey, Bob. It's the
Speaker 1: first time I've done this with you remotely. But but
Speaker 1: it's fun. You know, seeing your face is good. It's
Speaker 1: been a while, absolutely, so, Jake. When is the live
Speaker 1: business going to return? Well, it looks like in my mind, um,
Speaker 1: I mean, there are some festivals that are saying this fall.
Speaker 1: I doubt it. I think the earliest is second quarter.
Speaker 1: I think it will be different country by country. I mean,
Speaker 1: Canada's in a little better shape. But I don't see
Speaker 1: the borders opening up that quickly. And if they do,
Speaker 1: it will still be for for other types of services
Speaker 1: I don't see. I think they already announced in l
Speaker 1: A that no large gatherings till the end of from
Speaker 1: what I heard. Yeah, well, you know, it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting thing because Zekiel Emmanuel and it's kind of interesting
Speaker 1: because he's the brother of both Rom and Ari, and
Speaker 1: Ari of course is the Majordomo at w M e UH.
Speaker 1: He has gone on record in the New York Times.
Speaker 1: He of course is the ethics professor at University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: Do you see him on TV occasionally? And he has
Speaker 1: been posting in the New York Times and he said
Speaker 1: he didn't expect concerts to come back to the fall
Speaker 1: of one. The Mayor of Los Angeles said the beginning
Speaker 1: of one, which is what you said. But no one
Speaker 1: really knows, no. I think I think the uh, the
Speaker 1: jury is still out on that. There are some people talking.
Speaker 1: I think some of the festivals that have announced that
Speaker 1: in oh, we're gonna reschedule for October November, I think
Speaker 1: that's wishful thinking. I also think part of it is
Speaker 1: they don't want to have to give a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of refunds back to people. If they say, oh, we're
Speaker 1: just rescheduling until next year and saying, okay, you can
Speaker 1: keep your tickets, but they're good for next year, well,
Speaker 1: you know, let's slow down for a second there, because
Speaker 1: that's become a big issue, big scuttle but online about
Speaker 1: refunds and you know, so what's your viewpoint on that?
Speaker 1: Because it first it seemed that Live Nation was going
Speaker 1: to give refunds. Now it seems that they're not. Well
Speaker 1: it's it's Ticketmaster, even though they're the same company, but
Speaker 1: they're operating as separate in that way. Um I I
Speaker 1: think that I think that in this stage, if people
Speaker 1: want to refund, they should be able to get a refund. Um.
Speaker 1: I think there are some people that are saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: when's the date going to be, and if it keeps
Speaker 1: getting pushed back at some point, people aren't going to
Speaker 1: be available or they're not gonna want to go out.
Speaker 1: I think, um, I think they should be getting refunds.
Speaker 1: I also wonder, um if if if there are some
Speaker 1: promoters that are saying, Okay, well we're going to reschedule
Speaker 1: this for a year from now, hold your tickets for
Speaker 1: a year from now. Well, I know the money sits
Speaker 1: in trust, someone's holding on to that money. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: this has been a big change over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years in the music business, and the concert tickets
Speaker 1: can be sold in excess of a year out, and
Speaker 1: there's obviously an advantage to holding that money. But we're
Speaker 1: in an interesting era. We're in an era of musical chairs.
Speaker 1: Everybody is taking a hit. So do we make the
Speaker 1: customer whole, because the customers not a whole. At work,
Speaker 1: a lot of people are laid off or not laid off,
Speaker 1: you know, or put on furlough. And these are public
Speaker 1: companies in some cases. So if Ticketmaster, which as we say,
Speaker 1: is part of Live Nation, if they give all the
Speaker 1: money back, that's a huge financial hit for a Ticketmaster
Speaker 1: stop Hub. Most people believe if stop Help gives all
Speaker 1: the money back, they're going to go out of business.
Speaker 1: Well that and and um, what did I read today
Speaker 1: that watch for a big announcement on event right for
Speaker 1: tomorrow that Friday at four o'clock there's going to be
Speaker 1: a big amount announcement with event right. Well, by time
Speaker 1: this finally airs, we will know the essence of that.
Speaker 1: But do you think that event right, which is also
Speaker 1: a ticketing company, will give money back. I don't know
Speaker 1: if they're going to give money back or maybe it's
Speaker 1: more about to do with the company. I'm curious. You know.
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone today, we were making a
Speaker 1: date for a month away from now for for another conversation,
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, that's the day I was supposed
Speaker 1: to go see Miss Saigon. But wonder, like, what about
Speaker 1: the big Broadway shows that people buy tickets? All you know,
Speaker 1: you're a manager. Let's stay with that. Okay, let's start
Speaker 1: with the basic concept. If these acts, and I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about acci or playing club you know who are
Speaker 1: scraping by to begin with, but the big acts playing theaters,
Speaker 1: playing arenas, can they survive not working in excess of
Speaker 1: a year? So most acts work on a cycle at
Speaker 1: some point where there they could be working a record
Speaker 1: for a year and a half, then they're not on
Speaker 1: for a year, than they're back on for a year
Speaker 1: and a half. Those acts could probably survive because they
Speaker 1: have other sources of revenue, which are what are those
Speaker 1: other sources royalties? Um uh, mostly royalties, whether it's the airplay,
Speaker 1: whether it's sound exchange, whether it's all the other sources
Speaker 1: of revenues that artists can. But we do know that
Speaker 1: a lot of those revenues are going to be much lower. Um.
Speaker 1: I was sent a document today that from Europe about
Speaker 1: what's going on on that side of things. Broadcast revenues
Speaker 1: are down. If broadcast revenues are down, then performing rights
Speaker 1: revenues are down. Okay, so in Europe it's a percentage
Speaker 1: as opposed to same in Canada, it's percentage of gross revenue.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And like in Canada, recently the Canadian government
Speaker 1: um uh gave gave the broadcasters a thirty million dollar
Speaker 1: like okay, hold off, you don't have to pay right now, Okay,
Speaker 1: just so I know, because in America we tend not
Speaker 1: to know the rest of the world. To what degree
Speaker 1: is radio in Canada the CBC controlled by the government,
Speaker 1: and to what degree is it private? So the CBC
Speaker 1: is all is all not government, but it's I guess
Speaker 1: it's public. Let's just call it public broadcast but supported
Speaker 1: by the government. But most of real radio outside of
Speaker 1: the CBC is all private. The all big radio chains. Um,
Speaker 1: you've got Chorus, You've got Bell Media, uh shaw, You've
Speaker 1: got tons of big, big radio chains out there. So
Speaker 1: those are the commercial radio stations. Okay, So let's go
Speaker 1: back to acts. You know, there are some acts from
Speaker 1: the eighties even the seventies who played sheds every year.
Speaker 1: And I was discussing this actually with Irving days off,
Speaker 1: and I said, why are they going out every year?
Speaker 1: Said they need the money so we all can expand
Speaker 1: to our lifestyle. You know, if you're planning on making
Speaker 1: a million dollars and make nothing, you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: able to pay for all your houses. Oh listen, it's
Speaker 1: a problem. It's a problem for managers too. It's a
Speaker 1: big problem on the management side. My business is not
Speaker 1: just mine, but almost all managers it's decimated. There's nothing there. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's a real problem you're seeing. I was talking
Speaker 1: to one manager the other day and they manage basically
Speaker 1: theater size acts and they have about four or five
Speaker 1: of them that are regularly touring. They figured that this
Speaker 1: year alone, from now till the end of the year,
Speaker 1: as the manager side, is gonna lose seven hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in commission. Now, if you're a mid size or
Speaker 1: small to midsize management company with five employees, and that's
Speaker 1: that's your nut for that's the money you're gonna make
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Because you're acts are on
Speaker 1: cycle right now. That can put you out of business
Speaker 1: in it if you don't have all that money. So
Speaker 1: it's not just it's not just the acts, it's the
Speaker 1: managers too. So it's a practical matter because what we
Speaker 1: do know is live business is going to come back
Speaker 1: last probably even after the movie theaters. And because everybody
Speaker 1: is side by side, So the question becomes, how are
Speaker 1: these people gonna make it through? Well, that's the big thing.
Speaker 1: I mean right now, you know, we're looking everybody, like
Speaker 1: in the States, just like here, are all looking for
Speaker 1: government bailants. They're looking for a way for the government
Speaker 1: to support the industry. It's a big problem. Um, it's
Speaker 1: not going to go away that quickly. And and we're
Speaker 1: looking we're looking for we're being asked by government to say, okay,
Speaker 1: what's your short term needs and what are your long
Speaker 1: term needs? And when we're looking at the long term needs,
Speaker 1: we're looking at two year needs, not just six month
Speaker 1: needs or nine month needs. And and it's a big problem.
Speaker 1: And especially for the artists. I mean, we recently did
Speaker 1: a survey up here amongst artists and managers and um,
Speaker 1: you know, se or more of the artists and managers
Speaker 1: income came from live That's a problem. Okay. Now, the
Speaker 1: uh in the US, the music business has gotten together
Speaker 1: to try to get money. In Canada, is the business
Speaker 1: already getting money. So what they've done in terms of
Speaker 1: they've done not sector business because they look at culture
Speaker 1: as one sector, so that includes film TV because we've
Speaker 1: always had a lot of grants and things like that
Speaker 1: for I P. So if you're a record company making records,
Speaker 1: you can get grants. If you're an independent artist, you
Speaker 1: can get money to make records, touring, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But there's no money per se to cover lost revenue.
Speaker 1: And if the lost revenue is how you're supposed to
Speaker 1: pay all your bills, it's a problem. Um. There has
Speaker 1: been some um, some money put out there, uh two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month for self employed people, but right
Speaker 1: now it's only for four months. There's obviously there's talk
Speaker 1: about that being extended for longer. Um. There's grants. There's
Speaker 1: labor grant subsidies, so you can get um subsidized for
Speaker 1: up to of your your salaried employees. There's loans that
Speaker 1: being offered, not as big as the ones that are
Speaker 1: being offered in the States, but um, you know, we
Speaker 1: have a different size economy. So there's some loans that
Speaker 1: are partially repayable and and partially forgivable, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: But every day they keep announcing new versions of the
Speaker 1: same thing, because every time they announced something, people come
Speaker 1: back and say, well, that's not gonna work. That's not
Speaker 1: gonna work. Today they announced a rent subsidy for for businesses,
Speaker 1: you know, like restaurants that are going to be closed
Speaker 1: let's say for three, four or five months, but their
Speaker 1: landlords still need to get paid. So now there's a
Speaker 1: rent subsidy. But the way they positioned it is they'll
Speaker 1: give the money to the landlords so they won't have
Speaker 1: to charge the tenants. But everyone's wondering, well, how you're
Speaker 1: gonna know if your landlord actually got that subsidy or not.
Speaker 1: So there's a question on one of the checks and
Speaker 1: balances there, and it's a moving target because everyone's still
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how this is all going to work. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's start at the very beginning. I've have people actually
Speaker 1: gotten money from the government as we talk. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: let's just assume you're a bar band, and let's say
Speaker 1: you can play outside your own town. But you're playing,
Speaker 1: let's make the number somewhat big, somewhere between seventy five
Speaker 1: and three fifty seats at night. Can you get money
Speaker 1: for that? Yes, you can't get money replacement for that,
Speaker 1: but you right now you can get each person in
Speaker 1: the band can get two thousand dollars a month, Okay,
Speaker 1: But if someone is self employed and they're not in
Speaker 1: the music business, they're going to get the same two thousand. Yeah. Like,
Speaker 1: I have a friend who was a server, who's an
Speaker 1: actor who makes her money serving when she's not acting, Um,
Speaker 1: she's making She was on unemployment insurance or employment insurance,
Speaker 1: let's call it. But when the two thousand came out,
Speaker 1: it actually worked out to higher than her employment insurance,
Speaker 1: so they actually put her on the two thousand a
Speaker 1: month instead of the employment insurance. When that two thousand
Speaker 1: a month runs out, she'll go back to the other insurance.
Speaker 1: But for now they may be extending it. I mean
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be for four months, going back to
Speaker 1: the middle of March. So most people in the arts
Speaker 1: are going on that program for now, and it's eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars minimum that they're gonna get, Okay. So in
Speaker 1: America we had uh this, you know, it's funny everybody
Speaker 1: keeps labeling. Paul Krugman said, it's not truly a stimulus.
Speaker 1: But there were these uh this two trillion dollar amount,
Speaker 1: and there's been a big argument over where this money
Speaker 1: is coming from and whether there should be more money.
Speaker 1: Is there a big argument about that in Canada. Yeah.
Speaker 1: In fact, we're going to the UH to the to
Speaker 1: the government over the next couple of days and early
Speaker 1: next week to present what the short term needs are
Speaker 1: for our sector and and what the long term needs
Speaker 1: are for our sector. UM. And I think they're probably
Speaker 1: gonna come up with sectors specific UM relief programs UM
Speaker 1: across the board. Because you're hearing it. Oil and gas
Speaker 1: have their own problems, UM. Obviously, the restaurant business has
Speaker 1: their own problems. We're approaching it. UM. There's there's been
Speaker 1: a coalition that we've worked together on other issues like
Speaker 1: copyright and things like that. So it's gonna be all
Speaker 1: the industries together as a coalition trying to UH to
Speaker 1: talk to the government about the needs of our sector. Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess being more specific. Is there a backlash from
Speaker 1: more conservative people saying this is too much money being spent.
Speaker 1: We haven't heard none of that yet. I think that
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, UM, I haven't seen it. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: active on Twitter, Um, I'm I'm I'm paying attention to
Speaker 1: the news. I'm even watching the Conservative you know, we
Speaker 1: have a liberal government and power. But um, if you
Speaker 1: don't understand the parliamentary system, the second party is the Conservatives. Um.
Speaker 1: Whatever they've been talking about, the one thing they're not
Speaker 1: talking about is not spending more money. They're talking about
Speaker 1: how do we get more money into the hands of
Speaker 1: people and things like that. So everyone's on the same
Speaker 1: page that it's all about relief, relief, relief, relief. Okay,
Speaker 1: not that you can answer this question, where's this money
Speaker 1: going to come from? Well, you know they have this
Speaker 1: big printing press and they just they just printed out
Speaker 1: like in the like in Money Heist, you know how
Speaker 1: they printed the money and then the money just appeared. Okay,
Speaker 1: what do you want? What are you watching? What are
Speaker 1: you screaming? Well, on a couple of year recommendations, I
Speaker 1: went through Money Heist. I wasn't Ozark fan already. I
Speaker 1: went through Babylon Berlin. Um, I haven't decided to start
Speaker 1: anything yet. Uh. I saw an ad for something and
Speaker 1: I was like, did I see that? And I went, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw the whole thing. Because it's like it's all
Speaker 1: where I will tell you. I just watched the Gordon
Speaker 1: Lightfoot documentary, which was really really good, and I was
Speaker 1: thinking of you when I watched it because I didn't
Speaker 1: realize he went to UM college. He went to music
Speaker 1: college in Los Angeles. That's where he went to school.
Speaker 1: He went to like some special music school at eighteen
Speaker 1: nineteen years old in Los ange to us and he
Speaker 1: was in like this. He was the singer in this
Speaker 1: big band that was from the school and it's all
Speaker 1: in the dock and I was like, I had no
Speaker 1: idea about all that. Uh, well, my question becomes, how
Speaker 1: come all the conversation in the media and amongst friends
Speaker 1: is about TV as opposed to music. Well, it's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing that you say that because we know streaming
Speaker 1: is down. Like streaming is down. No, it's gone back up.
Speaker 1: It's gone back like. That was a guy. I got
Speaker 1: a big bone to pick. Uh. He's a nice enough guy,
Speaker 1: but that's tim ingam. He's also in Rolling Stone. He
Speaker 1: fancies himself and analyst and he looks at dat and
Speaker 1: it seems to me he comes up with a theory
Speaker 1: and then has the data to establish that. Just after
Speaker 1: he published that music streaming was down, Uh, Spotify put
Speaker 1: out a press release saying that was not true. And
Speaker 1: then this last week, there's a story that's streaming has
Speaker 1: gone up. Yes, streaming syne ups have gone up. Talking
Speaker 1: all the I'm telling you no, No, the actual number
Speaker 1: of tracks has gone on. I'm talking to all the
Speaker 1: independent labels that I'm on a regular like every other
Speaker 1: day conference call an email with and in fact I
Speaker 1: was just on a big email trail with all of
Speaker 1: them before we even got on here. All of them
Speaker 1: are saying their numbers it's down. Well, I can't speak
Speaker 1: to those specific people, and I'd rather not argue while
Speaker 1: we're doing this podcast. But one thing we do know
Speaker 1: is it's irrelevant because as long as people are paying
Speaker 1: their subscribing fees, whether volume goes up or down, there's
Speaker 1: still the same pot of goal, right, But it does matter.
Speaker 1: I guess maybe if you're dealing with a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of independent labels that have more independent type acts that
Speaker 1: don't live in the pop world, that maybe in the
Speaker 1: pop world it's gone it's gone way up. But on
Speaker 1: the well that that goes to another point, and this
Speaker 1: has got little to do with COVID nineteen. But uh,
Speaker 1: when you look at the streaming numbers, it's sort of
Speaker 1: like the rest of the world certainly United States, and
Speaker 1: there's winners or losers. If you're Drake who happens to
Speaker 1: be from Toronto or someone of that caliber, you're making
Speaker 1: more money on c on singles than you ever were.
Speaker 1: But if you're not Drake and you're someone who's playing Americana,
Speaker 1: you can't live off the royal No. No. And in fact,
Speaker 1: the other thing that people aren't even realizing is that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of money is being made on the
Speaker 1: on the sinc side of things, from from putting your
Speaker 1: music in film and television. Well, all the productions are down,
Speaker 1: there's nothing going on, so that money goes to artists
Speaker 1: on the writer's side, it goes to publishers, it goes
Speaker 1: to labels on the master's side. So there's we're missing
Speaker 1: out on a lot of that money too. So it's
Speaker 1: not and as I say, in Canada, they're giving too
Speaker 1: grand to everybody. Supposedly every bed in America is getting
Speaker 1: or there's big There seems to be some bumps on
Speaker 1: the road to them getting them. But don't you don't
Speaker 1: you get an autograph with it? Yes, we do so,
Speaker 1: uh without making it specifically about our president. Um, do
Speaker 1: you think this is a good time or a bad
Speaker 1: time for developing acts. UM. Well, I think there's there's
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of opportunities there. When I've
Speaker 1: sat on a lot of m zoom UH gatherings amongst
Speaker 1: I'm the vice president of the MMF, which is the
Speaker 1: Music Managers Forum, which hasn't didn't really catch on as
Speaker 1: much in the US as it has around the rest
Speaker 1: of the world. It's very strong in Canada and very
Speaker 1: strong in in the UK and a lot of other territories.
Speaker 1: UM And so we've been hosting a lot of these
Speaker 1: get togethers with other young managers and what we've been
Speaker 1: saying is now is a great time to cultivate an audience.
Speaker 1: If you can get music out there, if you can
Speaker 1: get content out there, if you can do live stream
Speaker 1: things like that, you could probably gain some fans and
Speaker 1: build some fans. So when you actually do have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to release the music and get out and play
Speaker 1: in front of people, maybe your constituency will be that
Speaker 1: much bigger because you have somewhat of a captive audience.
Speaker 1: And just like watching you know, streaming uh UH TV
Speaker 1: series or movies, people are constantly looking for something new
Speaker 1: to uh to check out, so I think, however, you
Speaker 1: know if you check out Live Nation. I was dealing
Speaker 1: with Michael Rapino and I suggested he did an excellent
Speaker 1: job of listing the streams, and what we do know
Speaker 1: is just like streaming music, it's kind of overwhelming. So
Speaker 1: many people are streaming shows, yeah, but there's just just
Speaker 1: many people that don't want to watch the biggest artists
Speaker 1: out there and want to want to discover something new.
Speaker 1: Are the same people that go to the grimy clubs
Speaker 1: because they want to find a new band that they're into.
Speaker 1: And and that's where you're going to cultivate your audience
Speaker 1: from anyways, And at some point it's gonna be word
Speaker 1: of mouth. Anyway, someone watches it, another friend tells another friend,
Speaker 1: and you know you're building your audience. But to sit
Speaker 1: there and do nothing is not the answer. It's okay,
Speaker 1: you're a manager. You famously built the tragically Hip. If
Speaker 1: you had an act today, an act that could sustain
Speaker 1: on its income, let's say it Soul Theaters hundred or
Speaker 1: three thousand seats, what would you be telling that act
Speaker 1: to do today? I'd be telling them to engage their
Speaker 1: audience and keep them interested and keep them, keep them,
Speaker 1: keep them engaged with, you know, doing some live streams.
Speaker 1: UM the hip hop world right now. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've seen this, Bob, but some of them are
Speaker 1: doing these UM these live streams and they're attracting three
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people to the live streams with
Speaker 1: tip jars, and they're actually generating a lot of revenue
Speaker 1: from people. Even if people put in a dollar, it's
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars. So there is ways to do it
Speaker 1: out there, especially if they can't get to it um. So,
Speaker 1: so depending on the size of your act, if you
Speaker 1: have an audience and your audience really wants to see you,
Speaker 1: and you're offering something that they probably would never get
Speaker 1: to see anyways. Because if you think about it, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're an act playing theaters, but now you're
Speaker 1: gonna do acoustic performances in a living room, a lot
Speaker 1: of people would be yeah, I'll pay to see that.
Speaker 1: People are charging through Patreon, they're charging you know, twenty
Speaker 1: dollars or ten dollars or tip jars. I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of ways to generate income. I don't think
Speaker 1: you're not gonna make You're not gonna make what you're
Speaker 1: making selling out a theater that if you're managing an
Speaker 1: act and you're trying to both sustain and grow an audience,
Speaker 1: would you say to give it away for free or
Speaker 1: to charge? I would say to charge. I would say
Speaker 1: to charge for some things and other things to give away.
Speaker 1: But i'd also you know, one of the ways you
Speaker 1: can you can give it away by saying, you know,
Speaker 1: provide us with your your phone numbers so you can
Speaker 1: be part of our text team, or provide us with
Speaker 1: your email address so we can help build the database
Speaker 1: so we have a way to connect with you with
Speaker 1: other things. Maybe you make special merch just for quarantine. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you can find someone to print it,
Speaker 1: or maybe um, I I know someone that's that's working
Speaker 1: on a system. Um. You know, there's there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of ways to do it where you can you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the way some of
Speaker 1: the crowdfunding things worked, where people pay in advance to
Speaker 1: buy merch and when the merchants made, they get it
Speaker 1: sent to them. So there's other ways to generate that
Speaker 1: kind of income. UM. I think it's easier for bands
Speaker 1: that actually already have a following because they have an
Speaker 1: army that they can enlist, especially if their fans are
Speaker 1: used to seeing them all the time. Uh. With the
Speaker 1: younger bands, you've gotta you've gotta work that much harder
Speaker 1: because you're trying to build a constituency. Okay, now, what
Speaker 1: do we know that when everybody uh in the middle
Speaker 1: of March started to hunker down in their houses, people
Speaker 1: started to do these livestream meaning acts started to do
Speaker 1: the live streams. At first it was people with the
Speaker 1: following people were known, then all the wannabes came in
Speaker 1: hearing from them. They're trying to grow their audience. Since
Speaker 1: we're talking about a lockdown that will certainly be nine months,
Speaker 1: could be the better part of eighteen months. Do you
Speaker 1: think that we'll see just like flattening the curve, we'll
Speaker 1: see a reduction of these free live streams and an
Speaker 1: increase in paid live streams. I think that's the only
Speaker 1: way it's going to go. I think I think that
Speaker 1: it's a re education in a lot of ways. Um,
Speaker 1: I think we're I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: may come out of this overall is people actually learning
Speaker 1: how to do stuff online that for a lot of
Speaker 1: people that never actually played online, whether it's ordering groceries
Speaker 1: or anything like that. I think there's there's a re education.
Speaker 1: And they say it takes twenty one days to change
Speaker 1: someone's behavior on what they did before, what they're gonna
Speaker 1: do now. Think about eighteen months of what that's gonna
Speaker 1: be like. And I think, you know, I think you know,
Speaker 1: we may get to a point where social distancing may
Speaker 1: not be the same. So you actually could put a
Speaker 1: band together in one room. Uh Like, if you think
Speaker 1: about look at w w E. Their business model is
Speaker 1: pay per view. Well, how different is this if it's
Speaker 1: pay per view? And no one ever thought pay per
Speaker 1: view would work in music. But if that's all you
Speaker 1: can get, maybe you would pay for it. Well, it's
Speaker 1: interesting because the w w E is considered an essential
Speaker 1: business in Florida. So uh arguing whether their business is
Speaker 1: essentially no comment? But but but okay, but what is
Speaker 1: go on? But to their point, their business model has
Speaker 1: always been a pay per view. Right, pay per view
Speaker 1: concerts historically haven't worked. Um remember the Who Final show
Speaker 1: in nineteen eight one which was pay per view or
Speaker 1: eighty two whenever it was, I was at it and
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be the last time him
Speaker 1: I saw the Who, But um, I don't know how
Speaker 1: successful that was. But you can still goes and see
Speaker 1: shows if there's no other options. Well, well, you know
Speaker 1: what we do know is House of Blues Concerts. That
Speaker 1: was originally an internet play and that was a big
Speaker 1: component in terms of filming live stuff. They outfitted all
Speaker 1: the venues and it didn't work, and they sold it
Speaker 1: to Live Nation ultimately. And we also have Fish using
Speaker 1: nugs net. It appears that Fish fans and other fans
Speaker 1: of the Almond Brothers there is a very small hardcore
Speaker 1: who will watch online now of course for once in
Speaker 1: a lifetime event, and it turns out like this one
Speaker 1: may literally be a once in a lifetime event, which
Speaker 1: was the final Dead Shows in Chicago. They also did
Speaker 1: well with pay per view, staying staying with pay per view.
Speaker 1: What's an appropriate price, Well, I guess it's going to
Speaker 1: be depending on the act. I mean, if an act
Speaker 1: says I'm gonna do a show, you know, twelve shows
Speaker 1: a year, once a month, versus a one time show,
Speaker 1: it's a different thing. You know. Obviously, you pay more
Speaker 1: for exclusivity, and you pay more for um for availability. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you have to look at it
Speaker 1: that way. Uh. You know, if if the Dead were
Speaker 1: only doing one show, then people would pay a lot
Speaker 1: more for the ticket than if they were touring that show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of like pay per view boxing switching gears
Speaker 1: a little bit. What's the future for the movie business
Speaker 1: in an era where the studios are the theaters are closed? Well?
Speaker 1: What did I just read that AMC is filing for
Speaker 1: chapter eleven? And yeah, well that you know that we're
Speaker 1: talking about two levels of business. Many people are unsophisticated
Speaker 1: when it comes to how these public corporations work. They
Speaker 1: go to chapter eleven because they can't pay their debts
Speaker 1: and they try to reorganize. It's chapter seven, I believe,
Speaker 1: which is permanent go out of business. But what I'm
Speaker 1: really asking is is there a future in pay per
Speaker 1: view movies on demand on the flat screen? Well, it's
Speaker 1: interesting you say that. Um, I think for certain kinds
Speaker 1: of movies, I think, you know, um, the dark side
Speaker 1: of thing I think will suffer. Um. You know, the
Speaker 1: Hot Doc Festival in Toronto, which is one of the
Speaker 1: best documentary festivals in the world, just announced, Um, they're
Speaker 1: going with their regular slate of films and and what
Speaker 1: they've done is they've made broadcast deals with all the
Speaker 1: broadcasters in Canada to carry those films. So the revenues
Speaker 1: coming in it actually gives these documentaries a bigger audience
Speaker 1: than by having them play, you know, for a week
Speaker 1: in a theater somewhere. Um. So it's not technically the
Speaker 1: same kind of film festival because people aren't going to
Speaker 1: movie theaters, but um, for the for the actual filmmakers,
Speaker 1: they're getting a bigger audience out of it. So well,
Speaker 1: my question would be, because I'm unfamiliar, that would ultimately
Speaker 1: be free to the audience in Canada. With those documentaries.
Speaker 1: You're not paying twenty dollars for a forty eight hour
Speaker 1: or five day window to watch, but but you're paying
Speaker 1: for your your cable bill or your streaming costs or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is. Like I saw an ad for a movie
Speaker 1: this morning, and and it looked like and then it
Speaker 1: said opening this day, and then very quickly there was
Speaker 1: a flash at the end of the commercial and it
Speaker 1: said only on Netflix. But up until I saw that,
Speaker 1: I thought, whoa, they're opening a movie somewhere and then
Speaker 1: it was only on Netflix. But well, It's interesting because
Speaker 1: the New York Times in the l A Times, the
Speaker 1: two entertainment centers in the United States, they were reviewing
Speaker 1: movies all the way through March, which made no sense
Speaker 1: because no one could go to see them. But now
Speaker 1: I was noticing because movies tend to open on Friday,
Speaker 1: noticing last Friday the movie they reviewed all were available
Speaker 1: on demand. Right personally, not that I watch movies or
Speaker 1: television hours and hours every day, but I'm paying for
Speaker 1: so many services. I've got my cable bill, i got
Speaker 1: my Netflix bill, I've got my Amazon bill. Are people
Speaker 1: really going to pay for video on demand on a
Speaker 1: one shot basis? Or do they want it biked into
Speaker 1: Netflix like you just said. Well, it's interesting because I
Speaker 1: do both. If there's a movie I really want to
Speaker 1: see that I want to see now that hasn't come
Speaker 1: out on UH and I'm a sample of one, but
Speaker 1: I know other people that do the same that hasn't
Speaker 1: come out on Netflix or hasn't come out on any
Speaker 1: streaming services yet, but I want to see it now.
Speaker 1: I'll pay the five ninety nine or to watch the
Speaker 1: movie at home, and if it's in four K, even better.
Speaker 1: I've done that many times? How often in a quarter?
Speaker 1: How often do you do that? I'm doing it nowadays
Speaker 1: probably now days, which is more often, but I'm doing
Speaker 1: it once a week. Okay, So my question will become,
Speaker 1: because you're talking about windowing, there a movie that has
Speaker 1: played theatrically and is ultimately going to cable and then
Speaker 1: we'll see it forever for free on some free channel.
Speaker 1: My question would become that movie has probably the beneficiary
Speaker 1: of fifty to a hundred million dollars in marketing. Can
Speaker 1: you open a movie only on video on demand? Can
Speaker 1: you reach the customers? That's the first question. They have
Speaker 1: to know about it before they pay for it. Well,
Speaker 1: I think like if you're talking about the new Star
Speaker 1: Wars and movies like that with hardcore fans, that if
Speaker 1: they know that this is how they're gonna see it
Speaker 1: and it's gonna cost them seven bucks, they'll put they'll
Speaker 1: probably do it, and they'll probably have giant viewing parties,
Speaker 1: you know, with a couple of their friends that are
Speaker 1: that are in their family. You know, I think know
Speaker 1: my brother he buys movies, he actually owns them, right,
Speaker 1: he buys them through in what format he's buying them from?
Speaker 1: My iTunes, he's buying him a disk, He's buying him
Speaker 1: out on He's buying him on Google. Um, anybody, what's
Speaker 1: the logic there? He wants to own them so he
Speaker 1: can see them over and over again, like his He
Speaker 1: loves his his sci fi movies, and he wants to
Speaker 1: own them so he can see them over and over again.
Speaker 1: He buys you know, as I say, I'm someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't read a book twice, almost never watches a movie twice.
Speaker 1: But I believe that's a fetishism or just a fetish
Speaker 1: in this particular case, because everything is available on demand.
Speaker 1: You know, I hear from people all the time, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not signing up for Spotify a because what if
Speaker 1: there were I'm out of range. Well, the sophisticated people,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be that sophisticated. No, you can
Speaker 1: seek it to the handset as long as you're hand
Speaker 1: set as juice, doesn't matter whether there's a signal. But
Speaker 1: I believe you know that we live in an on
Speaker 1: demand culture, which brings me to another fashion of your
Speaker 1: life where you gave up your car. Yeah yeah, and
Speaker 1: my audience about that, Well, I got in a car
Speaker 1: accident and my car was written off. And uh, this
Speaker 1: was how long ago? Two years ago October? I think
Speaker 1: it was maybe three years ago through maybe three years ago.
Speaker 1: Now I think it's two years ago, yeah, um and uh.
Speaker 1: And what happened was, Uh, I had been thinking about
Speaker 1: getting rid of my car, and the accident kind of
Speaker 1: made the decision for me, because when I looked at
Speaker 1: getting a new car, and then looked at looked at
Speaker 1: what it would cost me to take Uber's use public transit,
Speaker 1: which I had been using anyways, because parking downtown Toronto
Speaker 1: was a pain in the ass. And the fact I
Speaker 1: could rent down my parking spot and saving on insurance
Speaker 1: and gas and upkeeping everything else, I was ahead of
Speaker 1: the game by about ten twelve thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have to worry about a car. And
Speaker 1: if I need a car for anything really important, I
Speaker 1: just rented. So I live in I live in the city.
Speaker 1: I live in the core. Um. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: I chose to live in the course I had lived
Speaker 1: in New York, and I liked that lifestyle of not
Speaker 1: having a car and walking places. Um, So I chose
Speaker 1: to live like that, and I wanted to live that
Speaker 1: same lifestyle I had when I was living in New York.
Speaker 1: And again, cars are easy to access if you need one.
Speaker 1: Um and between between ubers and public transit. Nowadays, I'm
Speaker 1: not spending any money. I'm not going out for dinner,
Speaker 1: I'm not taking any ubers anywhere. Um So, actually costs
Speaker 1: are way down for me. Now, let's drill down on
Speaker 1: the cost. When you had your old BMW, was it
Speaker 1: completely paid for? You were paying per month? No. By
Speaker 1: the time I not, I smashed it up and had
Speaker 1: been paid for for a little over a year. So okay,
Speaker 1: So what did you estimate your cost of owning a
Speaker 1: car for your and A relative to what it's if I,
Speaker 1: if I had to make payments on it, you know,
Speaker 1: it was cost to me, you know, four or five
Speaker 1: a month, plus insurance which was another couple of hundred
Speaker 1: dollars a month, plus gas plus parking, plus you know upkeep,
Speaker 1: which is you know you're wear and tear on any car,
Speaker 1: whether it's tires or oil, you know, whatever you're spending.
Speaker 1: So if I priced out, if I was going to
Speaker 1: get a new car and have to pay payments on
Speaker 1: the car with all the costs in, it was going
Speaker 1: to be close to twenty dollars a year to carry
Speaker 1: a car. And I figured that if I spent even
Speaker 1: thirty dollars a day on an uber, that's only ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year. Right, how much did you You
Speaker 1: ended up spending about ten k a year? No, not
Speaker 1: even close, not even close. Because I work. What's your
Speaker 1: what's your reading? My office is in my house. What's
Speaker 1: your rating on Uber? I think I'm a four seven five? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're a nice guy in the Uber. Not it's
Speaker 1: definitely the guys that don't know which way they're going.
Speaker 1: So I tend to be a bit of a backseat
Speaker 1: driver on directions. So yeah, but if you've got four
Speaker 1: point seven, you know they're not too angry about it.
Speaker 1: I'm a friendly backseat driver. So to what degree are
Speaker 1: you self quarantining? Um? I've been out twice in thirty
Speaker 1: three days, and that was just to go to the
Speaker 1: to the store to pick up last minute stuff. I've
Speaker 1: been ordering my groceries in UM, I've been cooking. I UM.
Speaker 1: I've my brother dropped off a mask to me, but
Speaker 1: he just left it at my door. My assistants still working,
Speaker 1: so he uh, he'll pick up stuff and leave it
Speaker 1: at my door. If I have mailed for him, I'll
Speaker 1: leave it at my door. We don't actually have any contact. Um.
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of Zoom meetings. I had
Speaker 1: a Zoom birthday party was which was fun um it
Speaker 1: psych Over thirty people showed up, which probably be more
Speaker 1: than if I had a regular party, and people came
Speaker 1: from There were people on it from all over North
Speaker 1: America and even a couple from Europe. It was pretty
Speaker 1: late there, but they showed up, so it was interesting,
Speaker 1: you know. It was Uh, that was kind of overwhelming
Speaker 1: actually to have that much attention. I did a Zoom
Speaker 1: sat with you and your friendly so I got to
Speaker 1: meet all of your families, so that was fun um
Speaker 1: and offer my Canadian perspective on things, which so how
Speaker 1: is you know? You seem very upbeat now, how is
Speaker 1: your state of mind in the sequestion I had I
Speaker 1: had a session with my shrink today, so of course
Speaker 1: I'm up beat today. Uh, overall, it was overall, you
Speaker 1: know what, because I work from home, it's not that
Speaker 1: much of a disruption for me in terms of being
Speaker 1: in the house all the time. I'm used to it.
Speaker 1: I've been doing it now for two and a half years,
Speaker 1: I think, um uh, And I'm communicating with a lot
Speaker 1: of people. You know, I'm face timing with different friends
Speaker 1: every day, which I never did before. Now people are
Speaker 1: instead of just making texting you or calling you, their
Speaker 1: face timing you like it's and it's and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to message them back and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to face right or whatever. So I think,
Speaker 1: I think we're actually communicating a lot more than we have.
Speaker 1: But I mean, how are you finding it in that way? Well,
Speaker 1: as I say, I go up and down in a
Speaker 1: couple of things. I go up and down on fear. First,
Speaker 1: I was very fearful, and then I wasn't fearful for
Speaker 1: a while. And then I read that crazy case of
Speaker 1: the doctor on the front lines Washington State. They had
Speaker 1: to put him in the cardiac unit, and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, this could be really bad. And of course
Speaker 1: some people we know died. So there's I wax and
Speaker 1: Wayne on the fear I am. So I haven't seen
Speaker 1: anybody face to face in excess in real life, you know,
Speaker 1: in excess of a month, but desidside your girlfriend, beside
Speaker 1: your girlfriend, yes, who lives in the house we lived together. Um,
Speaker 1: in terms of state of mind, you know, well, I'm
Speaker 1: very busy. You know, I'm busier than I normally am.
Speaker 1: And I live in Los Angeles. You know, those hours
Speaker 1: in the car I'm missing out on. It's like Howard Stern.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not as addicted as I once was,
Speaker 1: only because I don't have that window. However, I haven't astern.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have the I have the app, and
Speaker 1: I pay for it to listen to your show and
Speaker 1: to listen to Stern. But I've been like I've been
Speaker 1: busy too, i haven't listened to Stern normally in the
Speaker 1: in the mornings, I'll have it on. I'll be listening
Speaker 1: on my phone or on my computer, you know, before
Speaker 1: I actually sit down at my desk. But now I'm
Speaker 1: answering emails and I'm messaging with friends and how how
Speaker 1: are you doing? How did you do last night? Everyone's
Speaker 1: checking in on each other, and I'm playing I'm playing
Speaker 1: Words with friends with random with random people. But it's
Speaker 1: it's good brain exercise to play scrabble, So I'm staying
Speaker 1: staying on Stern. He had Cuomo on, which was very good.
Speaker 1: You could get onto me and then again, Chuma has
Speaker 1: appeared in many places, especially with his brother. But I
Speaker 1: got to the first I felt it was Groundhog Day,
Speaker 1: the same day every day, and then I was so
Speaker 1: then I didn't quite know what day it was. And
Speaker 1: then the other day I worked really hard, and then
Speaker 1: I was burned out. The problem is with modern communications,
Speaker 1: you can never disconnect from Monday morning to Friday afternoon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm hearing from people seven you You you
Speaker 1: have a hard time saying, well, I'm not gonna have
Speaker 1: my phone right by me if I don't have my
Speaker 1: phone right by me, that I really can't concentrate me.
Speaker 1: If I have my phone right by and I really
Speaker 1: can't concentrate on something else. But if I leave my
Speaker 1: phone in the other room, I'm afraid. It's not only fomo,
Speaker 1: it's business. And as you say, it's our way to connect.
Speaker 1: And then you say, well, I'm gonna lay low on
Speaker 1: the weekends. But then everybody, I mean, this is the
Speaker 1: way it normally is. But I'm trying to say every
Speaker 1: wee traction on the weekend. Anyway, I'm trying to see
Speaker 1: where the normalization is. But you, but you're more productive
Speaker 1: because you're not spending all that time, so you're basically
Speaker 1: liv in my lifestyle now where you're not in the
Speaker 1: car right right, so so so you found all these
Speaker 1: extra hours to write, to read, to do the things
Speaker 1: that you didn't do before, because I say, an experiending.
Speaker 1: You know. The interesting thing is the other day I
Speaker 1: found I had more time to listen to new music.
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, I listened to new music when I'm hiking.
Speaker 1: And the story with new music is unless unless you're calm,
Speaker 1: everything sounds like ship and you know, you pull up
Speaker 1: the Spotify top fifty say you know they hit the
Speaker 1: ship ratio is terrible. This is another thing I can't
Speaker 1: rant enough about. You know, everyone thinks that playlists have
Speaker 1: solved the problem. No, it used to be DJs were
Speaker 1: experts and they read and they played certain songs. Now
Speaker 1: these playlists, there's so many crappy songs. Who can listen
Speaker 1: to that many crappy songs. However, I was listening to
Speaker 1: some songs the other day, even that I'd heard before,
Speaker 1: and they resonated more because I was calm. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: if you're driving in the car and you're listening to
Speaker 1: music opposed to Howard, you have a similar thing, but
Speaker 1: it's not like the old days because there's so many stations,
Speaker 1: certainly on satellite radio, and you can stream your phone.
Speaker 1: You know, this is something that's overwhelming to me in
Speaker 1: terms of new music. There is great new music out there,
Speaker 1: but connecting with the people who actually like it is
Speaker 1: so difficult, and as I say, you can waste so
Speaker 1: much time looking for the great stuff. Same thing with television.
Speaker 1: I read about television. People inundate me with shows. Some
Speaker 1: of them are good, and then you end up watching
Speaker 1: a show. I mean, I started watching the show which
Speaker 1: was rated the number one foreign show in the New
Speaker 1: York Times called Prisoners of War in his rarely show
Speaker 1: about two guys who come back from being held prisoners
Speaker 1: of war seventeen years in Syria. Very intense, but I
Speaker 1: could I feel like I could be the only person
Speaker 1: watching it. Well, I'm gonna watch it now, you said that.
Speaker 1: But but Fouda is coming back this week, Well Found
Speaker 1: is coming back on the twenties six in the US,
Speaker 1: and also Bosch is coming back the day after we
Speaker 1: have this conversation. Is let's go back to the music
Speaker 1: business for a couple of seconds. Here. You were one
Speaker 1: of the first people to embrace the Internet. If you
Speaker 1: have a developing act, Now, what platforms should you use?
Speaker 1: How important is social media? How often should you be posting? Well?
Speaker 1: I think right now because the audience is there, I
Speaker 1: think you could be posting more because they're they're chewing
Speaker 1: it up so fast. Um. I still think Instagram and
Speaker 1: Instagram Live seems to be the place where people are going.
Speaker 1: You're seeing bands that are breaking stuff off TikTok TikTok
Speaker 1: and and and stuff like that. I think Twitch is
Speaker 1: becoming a big thing, but I think that tends to
Speaker 1: lean more in the pop world. I'm not seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of indie acts and rock bands doing stuff on TikTok,
Speaker 1: you know. Um So, I still think Instagram of Facebook
Speaker 1: to a certain degree just because there's an audience there,
Speaker 1: regardless of the age and everything else. But I do
Speaker 1: think that Instagram has got to be the number one
Speaker 1: place to be right now. Um. Now, you maybe you
Speaker 1: personally are very active on Twitter. Is that just a
Speaker 1: personal thing or is there something that you can break
Speaker 1: bands there or you believe other people should be on it? Um.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a great source for information.
Speaker 1: I think you can build an audience there and you
Speaker 1: can direct them to your other places. I don't see
Speaker 1: a lot of I haven't seen one live stream on
Speaker 1: Twitter yet. You know, uh it's not well they broadcast
Speaker 1: football games. There's a way to do it. But I
Speaker 1: agree with you haven't seen it. Yeah, so I haven't seen. Oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, in Canada found it starts today. I
Speaker 1: envy you, so I'll be going deep. So great show.
Speaker 1: So back to I still think Instagram it's interest thing.
Speaker 1: If you if you go on Instagram now and I
Speaker 1: noticed that you recently got on Instagram. Um, if you
Speaker 1: go on Instagram you know in the top of the
Speaker 1: the app is all the stories, and the stories used
Speaker 1: to be one person, used to be all one person
Speaker 1: just doing their thing. Now that the top of the
Speaker 1: app is where the stories are, it's all live. Everything
Speaker 1: is live. Multiple people that you know are on that
Speaker 1: live stream because obviously you know a lot of friends
Speaker 1: who know other friends, and so now all you're seeing
Speaker 1: is Instagram live, Instagram live NonStop. So everyone's going there.
Speaker 1: There's um there's this app house Party. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've heard of it, were heard of it, so
Speaker 1: you can only put it absolutely was started a while ago,
Speaker 1: and it was bought in two thousand and nineteen by
Speaker 1: the guys who own Fortnite because they were noticing that
Speaker 1: gamers were communicating on house Party while they were gaming.
Speaker 1: The only thing about it you can only put eight
Speaker 1: people on it. But maybe that's another place where artists
Speaker 1: can go and say, Hey, we're gonna do a concert
Speaker 1: for only eight people. It's gonna be really exclusive, or
Speaker 1: for seven people and I'm gonna be the eighth I'm
Speaker 1: the artist, and I'm gonna do a house concert for you.
Speaker 1: No different than when you know a lot of artists
Speaker 1: are doing these house concert tours. So maybe that's another
Speaker 1: thing that artists could do is they could certainly charge
Speaker 1: a lot for that, right. And the thing about house
Speaker 1: Party that's different than some of the other things Zoom.
Speaker 1: If you send the link, anybody can just click the
Speaker 1: link and get in on it house Party. If I'm
Speaker 1: on a conversation with you on house Party, I can
Speaker 1: hit the lock and it means no one else can
Speaker 1: come in and we're in a locked room. And if
Speaker 1: you go onto the app, it will say Jacob Bob
Speaker 1: are in a locked room, you know, or if they
Speaker 1: if they're only connected with me on the app, it'll
Speaker 1: just say Jake's in the locker room, and it won't
Speaker 1: tell them who I'm with, so they can't enter the room.
Speaker 1: As I say, In terms of social media, and if
Speaker 1: you even want to call social media, yes, I'm dedicated
Speaker 1: follower of Twitter terms of the other formats. You know,
Speaker 1: I've had an accounted Instagram. I didn't post for years,
Speaker 1: and I did post a couple of times. It's an
Speaker 1: interesting time because it's also because of all the messages,
Speaker 1: it's harder than ever to uh build an audience. But
Speaker 1: I found that these platforms are littered with self promotion,
Speaker 1: which I find a turn off. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think that's the other thing is that it's it's how
Speaker 1: do you engage your audience now without coming off as
Speaker 1: inauthentic or unauthentic, like you know, authenticity. People are are
Speaker 1: really clamoring for authenticity. And it's it's one of the
Speaker 1: things that drives me crazy. You know. It's um the
Speaker 1: Instagram model who spouts off beautiful things about wellness and
Speaker 1: here's a picture of me of my ass and the thong.
Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't work for me. There's a it's
Speaker 1: not there's no connection there, and I think I think
Speaker 1: that um that you know, it's it's the line that
Speaker 1: seems to be running around everywhere now is read the
Speaker 1: room is you know, you've got to be able to
Speaker 1: know how to uh how to market and how to
Speaker 1: uh engage your fans in an authentic way right now,
Speaker 1: and you've got to be smart about it. Um, you're
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of ads. I saw someone on Twitter
Speaker 1: the day talk about all these ads coming from the
Speaker 1: big corporations about how and how fast they're turning these
Speaker 1: ads around to buy my product in these trying times,
Speaker 1: Like you know, who's writing the copy and how difficult
Speaker 1: a job that is to write that kind of copy. Um,
Speaker 1: I think everyone's still trying to figure it out. The
Speaker 1: one thing I am doing more often than not is
Speaker 1: I think I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 1: because I know everyone's trying to figure it out, and
Speaker 1: everyone's everyone's a little lost, and some people are doing
Speaker 1: it really well and some people aren't doing it as
Speaker 1: well all, and I think maybe we should be a
Speaker 1: little bit more forgiving to those people because they haven't
Speaker 1: figured it out yet. Well, however, there's been a huge
Speaker 1: you talk about reading the room, huge celebrity backlash, you know,
Speaker 1: to Gal Gadot and imagine with her other celebrities, David
Speaker 1: Jeffen in his yacht. And that's an interesting situation because
Speaker 1: in reality that's been going on for years, and that
Speaker 1: the celebrities are not who don't have the status and
Speaker 1: the adoration they used to have before. Well, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting you're saying that because um I
Speaker 1: read an interesting article in Vanity Fair. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I sent it to you or not, but it
Speaker 1: was all about you know, that that that this could
Speaker 1: be the death of the so called influencer right right,
Speaker 1: and I did that and whether and whether whether, and
Speaker 1: that goes with artists too, because there are plenty of
Speaker 1: artists out there who are who have market themselves more
Speaker 1: as sort of an influencer or someone who does this
Speaker 1: one thing, but they also do these other things and
Speaker 1: music may not be there no or one thing, but
Speaker 1: they're trying to sell music off the back of what
Speaker 1: they're known for, you know. Um uh. I think the
Speaker 1: only one that's ever done it really successful and managed
Speaker 1: to come out the other side was Jack Johnson, who
Speaker 1: was not an artist when he first started, who right right.
Speaker 1: But most of the rest we kind of have looked
Speaker 1: at and went there's not a lot of credibility there.
Speaker 1: I think that the influences who are as I like
Speaker 1: to say, famous for being famous may not may not
Speaker 1: last through. The ones that are really really big in
Speaker 1: the Kardashian level, I think they're teflon at this point.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's interesting because in today's New York
Speaker 1: Times Style section they have a whole story how the
Speaker 1: fashion business is being hurt by the postponement of Coachella.
Speaker 1: This really shows that it's not about the music. They
Speaker 1: happen to have a picture of an influencer there wearing
Speaker 1: her outfit that you go there to parade your look
Speaker 1: and if the other thing, which is sort of amazing
Speaker 1: with fast fashion, they say, a lot of these people
Speaker 1: just by the clothes for the weekend and literally throw
Speaker 1: them away. Yeah, However, Jake, why are Canada and Toronto's
Speaker 1: such epicenter of musical innovation and stature? You mean, why
Speaker 1: is the weekend and Drake number one in two the charts?
Speaker 1: That's we well, not time before that you had uh
Speaker 1: broken social scene from Montreal, etcetera. Arcade fire. You mean
Speaker 1: from from Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that we like a lot of European countries for what
Speaker 1: it's worth is we invest in the arts as a
Speaker 1: as a country. Uh. We have a great um, we
Speaker 1: have a great uh system of supporting the arts from
Speaker 1: grants UM, grants to companies, grants to artists. Um, there's
Speaker 1: an infrastructure. There's infrastructure grants. UM. There's so you know,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, if if if a record company,
Speaker 1: independent record companies getting a grant to make a record,
Speaker 1: they're they're able to give the artists, um uh an advance.
Speaker 1: It's not a major label type advance, but it's also
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna not gonna have as much debt to recoup. Um.
Speaker 1: There we're supporting recording studios, were supporting video production. UM.
Speaker 1: There's grants for film and television. So those people will
Speaker 1: get more money for their grants, um if they use
Speaker 1: Canadian music, because you get you know, based on how
Speaker 1: much Canadian content you put in your films dictates how
Speaker 1: much of the grant you can get. So there's all
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff like that. So when you look at that,
Speaker 1: how it supports an overall echosystem, ecosystem and then here
Speaker 1: we are kind of a training ground because we can
Speaker 1: get our feet wet. And you know, most Canadian bands
Speaker 1: that tour are really good live bands, and a lot
Speaker 1: of them by the time they get to America, they're
Speaker 1: they're all formed entities that know how to go out
Speaker 1: there on the road. And I remember in the days
Speaker 1: of the Hip when we would go into places in
Speaker 1: America to play, they would all say, wow, like, you
Speaker 1: guys are like really together. You know, we'll be playing
Speaker 1: three clubs and most of the band's playing three clubs.
Speaker 1: We're not that together. Like, you know, we were like
Speaker 1: a machine and and and we were also nice to
Speaker 1: the people there, and they would be like and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, you guys must be Canadian, you're nice. You know.
Speaker 1: It was like that was I hate to say it,
Speaker 1: but that's what we used to get all the time.
Speaker 1: And so we're kind of we have this great, um,
Speaker 1: great training ground per se to get it going. Now
Speaker 1: that that wasn't always the case, but but and it's
Speaker 1: almost like a proof of concept in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: um and everyone's looking for proof of concept today, so
Speaker 1: that has a big part to do with it too. Okay,
Speaker 1: is we're doing this remotely in our COVID nineteen initiation.
Speaker 1: Anything we haven't covered, Um, I don't know if if
Speaker 1: there's anything we haven't covered, but but I want to
Speaker 1: ask you a couple of questions since we're since we're
Speaker 1: back and forth. UM, one of the things I noticed
Speaker 1: is is obviously and for a lot of reasons, and
Speaker 1: you and I have discussed this, you know ourselves internally,
Speaker 1: let's just call it. UM. You know you're really getting
Speaker 1: political these days. You're spending a lot of time on politics.
Speaker 1: I noticed you backed off the last few days and
Speaker 1: you've been um, you've been writing, there's you know, back
Speaker 1: to more music stuff and everything else. How are you
Speaker 1: dealing with the crap that you're getting? I saw that
Speaker 1: hold on. I saw one post and I it gave
Speaker 1: me shivers. The guy with the guns that said he's
Speaker 1: coming for Sean Marmelo was let's continue to hear from him,
Speaker 1: and you continue to print his name too, as anybody
Speaker 1: written back and said, I know that guy like you
Speaker 1: know everyone's written about because you know today everybody's searchable online,
Speaker 1: right so they can see it. He is a country
Speaker 1: singer from I forget the state, but I have not
Speaker 1: heard from anybody who knows him. In terms of writing
Speaker 1: about politics, there's a lot of things going on. Let
Speaker 1: me try to break it down a little bit. Um one.
Speaker 1: That is the story of our time, just like music
Speaker 1: was the Canarian the coal mine for digital disruption, and
Speaker 1: it's amazing. If you look at television. New York Times
Speaker 1: did a number of streaming services. There's like thirty pace
Speaker 1: streaming services. It's just crazy where we can get everything
Speaker 1: on one service, although there are a few services, and uh,
Speaker 1: we have it figured out now. The fascinating thing is
Speaker 1: all of the people who said the Internet is going
Speaker 1: to kill the music business, that was untrue. C D
Speaker 1: did not survive. They were left in the past. So
Speaker 1: is that equivalent in this political thing? You know, are
Speaker 1: we going to see breakthrough? We're going to see a
Speaker 1: change in government in the United States and it's literally
Speaker 1: life and death. So what do I know? If I
Speaker 1: write about we'll call it politics. And the coronavirus responses voluminous,
Speaker 1: just like in the days of Napster. If I write
Speaker 1: about music, it's much much smaller. I get all these
Speaker 1: daily newsletters, a record of the day from England. And
Speaker 1: the funny thing is they're not shorter whatsoever. It's just
Speaker 1: the news is more irrelevant. So ultimately comes down to
Speaker 1: the music, and we're focusing on music at this time. Yes,
Speaker 1: by writing about politics, I lose some subscribe it. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts. I could do twenty minutes on this,
Speaker 1: but I won't. First, if you listen to the audience,
Speaker 1: you're screwed. If you're an artist, you have to do
Speaker 1: what residates the plastic person here being Neil Young. If
Speaker 1: you look back at Neil Young's history, he had a
Speaker 1: gigantic album with Harvest, which was his fourth album after
Speaker 1: the gold Rush. Before that was pretty big. He went
Speaker 1: on an arena tour and he played all new music
Speaker 1: and would say and then he said, okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: play something you know and you've heard already. Then he
Speaker 1: played a song from the same gig. Needless to say,
Speaker 1: he could not play arenas thereafter. But people are still
Speaker 1: interested in the new music of Neil Young. They're not
Speaker 1: interested in the new music of Crosby Stills or Nash,
Speaker 1: certainly not in that volume. So the other thing was
Speaker 1: I did a podcast with Pete Tongue and this is
Speaker 1: really resonated with me. We're talking about his live career, Pete.
Speaker 1: You know, it's got many enterprises doing very well. It
Speaker 1: was fabulous. But one thing he said that really is
Speaker 1: stuck with me is that, Okay, his live business is
Speaker 1: not as big as it used to be. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: could it be that big again? And he said he
Speaker 1: would have to reinvent himself. Now, this is an interesting
Speaker 1: thing in the music business. The classic acts. Uh, they're
Speaker 1: going out and they're playing the old tunes lucratively, if
Speaker 1: that's a word, it's you know, they're making a lot
Speaker 1: of money. No one wants to hear the new music.
Speaker 1: How fulfilling is it for those people? If you look
Speaker 1: at the legends David Bowie, I was there early, huge fan,
Speaker 1: saw Ziggy Stardust. He constantly changed. Some things you'd like,
Speaker 1: some things you didn't, but he is the name that remains.
Speaker 1: The other thing I remember Brian Adam telling about Canadian
Speaker 1: Everyone said, oh, your music is not current enough, you're
Speaker 1: not taking topics on and then he made an album
Speaker 1: doing that and it was nowhere nearer successful. Then he
Speaker 1: went back to the old formula. So I believe I
Speaker 1: have to do what resonates and what I have found
Speaker 1: is because I save all my email. The people who
Speaker 1: are bitching are always the same people bitching. Ironically, the
Speaker 1: people who email you who disagree with you on politics,
Speaker 1: they don't sign off. They're just working the refs. So people,
Speaker 1: those are the same people that hate Trump but follow Trump,
Speaker 1: and the same people that hate Pelosi but follow Pelosi. Right,
Speaker 1: the same people right well, as I say, if in
Speaker 1: terms of the right wing, uh, there's certainly they're trying
Speaker 1: to work the refs. I hear from these people some
Speaker 1: every day. Okay, you would think if they didn't like
Speaker 1: what I write, they would sign off, but they don't.
Speaker 1: But yesterday I sent a number of things, and I'm
Speaker 1: always weary. I used to send up to five things
Speaker 1: a day, but I sent three things in a day,
Speaker 1: and usually inherently you get sign offs. The third thing
Speaker 1: was political. I didn't lose the single subscriber net net.
Speaker 1: But what I've also, you know, you start to learn, interestingly,
Speaker 1: I lose most subscribers when I print a mail bag,
Speaker 1: the all the viewpoints. I can't exactly explain why, whether
Speaker 1: people just overwhelmed. If they hear it from me, they're okay.
Speaker 1: If they hear from all these other people on both sides.
Speaker 1: Somehow it overwhelms. You know, I don't know why they
Speaker 1: have done subscribed. They can just delete, you know, like Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't like mail bag, I'm not gonna read mail bag.
Speaker 1: Or maybe they're in the mail bag and they didn't
Speaker 1: and they realized that afterwards and they decided I'm gonna subscribe.
Speaker 1: Be interesting to see how many of your unsubscribers were
Speaker 1: people you mentioned in the mail bag, to see if
Speaker 1: there's a correlation. There never never, but I have had
Speaker 1: people send me hainous me mail and sign off and
Speaker 1: I printed their heinous email. You always wonder if they
Speaker 1: read it. Yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that.
Speaker 1: I have another question for you before I go there.
Speaker 1: I want to say one thing is that, um, the
Speaker 1: people who are mad about politics always tell you they're unsubscribing.
Speaker 1: There's a link at the bottom of the you know,
Speaker 1: they to do it themselves, but they have to tell
Speaker 1: you take me off the list, right, Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you can print that, and that's great. I love reading those.
Speaker 1: I love reading those because those people, if if they
Speaker 1: did it right after they sent it to you, then
Speaker 1: they never got to read their own email. In your
Speaker 1: mail bag. Let me let me ask you the next question.
Speaker 1: I don't know when this thing is going to go
Speaker 1: to air. Is it gonna go to air within the
Speaker 1: next seven days? Probably? Okay, So it's gonna go to
Speaker 1: air around the time of your birthday. Your birthday is
Speaker 1: coming up, And how do you feel about that? Like,
Speaker 1: this will be your, like me, your first quarantined birthday,
Speaker 1: and usually, well, I know you're not a giant birthday.
Speaker 1: We've had a couple of big birthday parties for you
Speaker 1: had a big fifty, we had a big sixty. Um,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be your first quarantine birthday. Uh, how is
Speaker 1: that going to feel? Well? I've had a couple of
Speaker 1: birthdays that haven't been uh, you know, as meaningful. Add One,
Speaker 1: I like to go to the closing week of AIL
Speaker 1: and go skiing, and especially the closing week was my birthday.
Speaker 1: The subsequent year, my birthday was the day after closing
Speaker 1: and I flew home on an airplane, And so my
Speaker 1: expectations not that high. But as I get older, what
Speaker 1: bothers me about my birthday is it comes and goes
Speaker 1: so fast. You think about it coming for like three months,
Speaker 1: that it's one day and it already happens, so I
Speaker 1: have rituals on my birthday. Um in nine seven, I
Speaker 1: went for pastrami sandwich at Langer's, then went to see
Speaker 1: the movie Annie Hall, and then went for a Sunday
Speaker 1: at a legendary place on Hollywood Boulevard that no longer
Speaker 1: exists called C. C. Browns. So that's what I do
Speaker 1: every birthday the last couple of years. Some there has
Speaker 1: occasionally there hasn't been a good movie, and I've watched Netflix.
Speaker 1: Always go for the pastrami sandwich, Always have the ice cream.
Speaker 1: What I'm thinking about is getting a z Bars send
Speaker 1: and sort of have my own celebration here. I'm also
Speaker 1: the question would be my sister said, do I want
Speaker 1: a Zoom birthday party? Now, you had a Zoom birthday
Speaker 1: party with thirty people. But the only thing about Zoom
Speaker 1: is it's cacophony. You can't know, everyone's talking, it's fun,
Speaker 1: everybody's here, but you can't make any pro No, Actually,
Speaker 1: you've got him. All you have to do is you
Speaker 1: have to have someone that sort of takes control of
Speaker 1: the party, right, and in that case it could be you.
Speaker 1: Where I like, I went around the room and asked
Speaker 1: everyone to give recommendations on what they've been streaming and
Speaker 1: watching so they could hear from other people. So a
Speaker 1: lot of people are thinking, what else are you doing?
Speaker 1: How are you coping? Everyone got to tell their story. Um.
Speaker 1: And then at the end somebody said to me, you know,
Speaker 1: what did you what did you learn in the past year?
Speaker 1: And I gave my piece on what I learned in
Speaker 1: the past year. So I think if you can monitor
Speaker 1: it and make it seem like it's almost because if
Speaker 1: you're a panel but there's thirty forty people there, and
Speaker 1: give everyone a chance to talk and introduce everyone as everyone.
Speaker 1: Because I was on first, as everyone joined, I would
Speaker 1: introduce everybody. They would come on, I'd say, hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: this is so and so, and it was like I
Speaker 1: was the conductor of it. So I think, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna have a Zoom birthday party, someone's got to take
Speaker 1: the reins and do it that way. Otherwise you're right,
Speaker 1: it can go crazy. Um. But you also have, you know,
Speaker 1: the the chat bar on the side. If people want
Speaker 1: to talk amongst themselves, you can tell them. My only
Speaker 1: problem is people are not that Zoom savvy and you
Speaker 1: and you send him a message and they don't they're
Speaker 1: not savvy enough to read it. Yeah, but if you
Speaker 1: tell them what it is, you know, like I did
Speaker 1: a b y o C. Bring your own cake, and
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people all had a piece of cake.
Speaker 1: So when I ate the cake that I had everyone
Speaker 1: ate cake with me. So we knows a good idea, right,
Speaker 1: I said, b y O C. Now the amount of
Speaker 1: people that came back with what they saw C stood
Speaker 1: for and it wasn't cake that I had to explain
Speaker 1: to them what the sea was for. But people, a
Speaker 1: bunch of people had cake and even had a candle
Speaker 1: in it and they blew out the candle when I
Speaker 1: blew out the candle. So you can make it a theme.
Speaker 1: You can say dressed like Bob, you know where your
Speaker 1: best ski outfit, you can wear ski goggles, can do
Speaker 1: whatever you want. But if you want to have fun
Speaker 1: with it, have fun with it. But you gotta you
Speaker 1: gotta control the flow. If you don't control the flow,
Speaker 1: It's like I did the podcast the other day with
Speaker 1: UM with Steiny, and there was six people on the cast,
Speaker 1: and because he was hosting it, he controlled the flow,
Speaker 1: so it was much easier to make it work. So
Speaker 1: it's up to you if you want to control the flow.
Speaker 1: Like okay, so Jake, before we come to the end
Speaker 1: of the field, we've known any more questions for me? No,
Speaker 1: I think I think I was saving that question for
Speaker 1: the end. That was I was actually saving that question
Speaker 1: knowing that we're almost at an hour here and we're
Speaker 1: almost wrapped up. Okay, Well, you know it's interesting because
Speaker 1: you know, they always talk about roadmaps with software, and
Speaker 1: they always talk about how much runway they have. I
Speaker 1: will be sick seven. Most people lie about the rage,
Speaker 1: but you can look it up on Wikipedia by the
Speaker 1: same token. There's a lot of fake stuff there, Leo
Speaker 1: or Cone, Tommy Mottola. They're taking years off. What what
Speaker 1: difference does it make? But today I got the news
Speaker 1: Brian Denna he died, and and last week it was
Speaker 1: um Alan Garfield. It was in a million movies and
Speaker 1: so anyway, Brian Denna he died. You know, he was
Speaker 1: a great actor and he see he's eighty one, so
Speaker 1: well ship my father died at seventy. But it's like,
Speaker 1: ok so we're already in bonus dimond. It's like it's
Speaker 1: like like people say they want to die in their sleep.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to die in my sleep. I
Speaker 1: don't want to see it coming. Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: know it's the end. But if somebody and if you're killed.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get killed in a car accident without
Speaker 1: driving at this time. But you know, if there's an accident,
Speaker 1: so be it. But to think there's a limited time left.
Speaker 1: I feel good about the path I've taken, but it's scary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you can look at it that way, or
Speaker 1: you can just look at it is. You know, live
Speaker 1: in the moment, enjoy the time you've got. You live,
Speaker 1: you know overall, if you if you had perspective, and
Speaker 1: I know you have perspective, Um, you look around and
Speaker 1: see the life you live. You ski, you have good
Speaker 1: friends that that that communicate with you, regularly check in
Speaker 1: on you. You have, you have a great girlfriend. You
Speaker 1: live a comfortable life. Could be worse. I look around,
Speaker 1: especially today and see uh and and and literally think
Speaker 1: think how lucky I am. You know that I'm actually
Speaker 1: being able to Let's reach to the classic. What is
Speaker 1: on the bucket list, Jake, I don't have a bucket list, Bob,
Speaker 1: I have a bucket list okay, and and the fucket
Speaker 1: list is if I feel like I want to go
Speaker 1: do something, I just go do it. And I say,
Speaker 1: and I don't look at my bank account and I
Speaker 1: don't look at my credit card and I'm fortunate enough
Speaker 1: that I can do it. Can I do stupid? It's
Speaker 1: really extravagant things? Bye bye bye extravagant people standards? Probably not.
Speaker 1: Can I do things like I really like that piece
Speaker 1: of art and it costs, you know, money, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: buy it. Yeah, I'll go buy it because I want
Speaker 1: to own it and I love art. You know. So
Speaker 1: I know you're a big tennis player if you've been
Speaker 1: to all four majors. I've been to all four majors.
Speaker 1: I've been to a lot of the smaller tournaments as well.
Speaker 1: I still want to go back to some of them.
Speaker 1: Um so so. So that's why I don't really have
Speaker 1: a bucket list. I have this idea that if I
Speaker 1: want to go do something, I'm gonna go do it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. Someone says, what are you gonna
Speaker 1: do when all this is over? And I said, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to an island And they said what and
Speaker 1: be alone? I said, well maybe with somebody else, but
Speaker 1: you know, literally shut down from social media, lie in
Speaker 1: the sun, be on an ocean, and and just chill
Speaker 1: right because even though we're isolated, I wouldn't call it chilling.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of chilling going on, especially if you
Speaker 1: turn on the news. I mean I got the TV
Speaker 1: on now. They're saying there's a big announcement coming soon,
Speaker 1: So it's like, who the funk knows what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like every every day it changes, right, so it certainly
Speaker 1: does in any of them. I think that's a good
Speaker 1: note to end on. Jake, thanks so much for doing
Speaker 1: this to be safe, Bob, and I'm sure I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you, but publicly, happy birthday. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Left Things