WEBVTT - Jake Gold 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sex Podcast, 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:17.759 the COVID nineteen version. Yes, we're doing this remotely from 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.959 my bed room to the world. My guest today is 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.320 manager Jake Gold, who happens to be in Toronto as 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.200 we're speaking. Jake, how you doing, Hey, Bob. It's the 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.319 first time I've done this with you remotely. But but 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.720 it's fun. You know, seeing your face is good. It's 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.000 been a while, absolutely, so, Jake. When is the live 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.120 business going to return? Well, it looks like in my mind, um, 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.040 I mean, there are some festivals that are saying this fall. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.960 I doubt it. I think the earliest is second quarter. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.480 I think it will be different country by country. I mean, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.440 Canada's in a little better shape. But I don't see 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 the borders opening up that quickly. And if they do, 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:03.200 it will still be for for other types of services 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.039 I don't see. I think they already announced in l 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.240 A that no large gatherings till the end of from 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.560 what I heard. Yeah, well, you know, it's a very 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.800 interesting thing because Zekiel Emmanuel and it's kind of interesting 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.920 because he's the brother of both Rom and Ari, and 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.720 Ari of course is the Majordomo at w M e UH. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:23.919 He has gone on record in the New York Times. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:29.040 He of course is the ethics professor at University of Pennsylvania. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.880 Do you see him on TV occasionally? And he has 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.160 been posting in the New York Times and he said 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.200 he didn't expect concerts to come back to the fall 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:43.319 of one. The Mayor of Los Angeles said the beginning 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.680 of one, which is what you said. But no one 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.720 really knows, no. I think I think the uh, the 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.000 jury is still out on that. There are some people talking. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.520 I think some of the festivals that have announced that 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.320 in oh, we're gonna reschedule for October November, I think 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.560 that's wishful thinking. I also think part of it is 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:08.959 they don't want to have to give a whole bunch 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.880 of refunds back to people. If they say, oh, we're 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.440 just rescheduling until next year and saying, okay, you can 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.960 keep your tickets, but they're good for next year, well, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:21.880 you know, let's slow down for a second there, because 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.160 that's become a big issue, big scuttle but online about 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:29.040 refunds and you know, so what's your viewpoint on that? 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.080 Because it first it seemed that Live Nation was going 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.840 to give refunds. Now it seems that they're not. Well 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.720 it's it's Ticketmaster, even though they're the same company, but 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:41.440 they're operating as separate in that way. Um I I 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.959 think that I think that in this stage, if people 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.760 want to refund, they should be able to get a refund. Um. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.320 I think there are some people that are saying, Okay, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:52.919 when's the date going to be, and if it keeps 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.840 getting pushed back at some point, people aren't going to 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.000 be available or they're not gonna want to go out. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.920 I think, um, I think they should be getting refunds. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.920 I also wonder, um if if if there are some 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:12.520 promoters that are saying, Okay, well we're going to reschedule 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.840 this for a year from now, hold your tickets for 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.680 a year from now. Well, I know the money sits 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.600 in trust, someone's holding on to that money. Well, you know, 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.640 this has been a big change over the last couple 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.640 of years in the music business, and the concert tickets 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.280 can be sold in excess of a year out, and 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.560 there's obviously an advantage to holding that money. But we're 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.800 in an interesting era. We're in an era of musical chairs. 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:40.120 Everybody is taking a hit. So do we make the 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.680 customer whole, because the customers not a whole. At work, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.040 a lot of people are laid off or not laid off, 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.640 you know, or put on furlough. And these are public 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.600 companies in some cases. So if Ticketmaster, which as we say, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.960 is part of Live Nation, if they give all the 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.839 money back, that's a huge financial hit for a Ticketmaster 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.720 stop Hub. Most people believe if stop Help gives all 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.440 the money back, they're going to go out of business. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.480 Well that and and um, what did I read today 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.360 that watch for a big announcement on event right for 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.840 tomorrow that Friday at four o'clock there's going to be 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.440 a big amount announcement with event right. Well, by time 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.160 this finally airs, we will know the essence of that. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.760 But do you think that event right, which is also 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.720 a ticketing company, will give money back. I don't know 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.600 if they're going to give money back or maybe it's 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.039 more about to do with the company. I'm curious. You know. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.120 I was talking to someone today, we were making a 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.600 date for a month away from now for for another conversation, 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.680 and they said, oh, that's the day I was supposed 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.599 to go see Miss Saigon. But wonder, like, what about 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.880 the big Broadway shows that people buy tickets? All you know, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.279 you're a manager. Let's stay with that. Okay, let's start 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.800 with the basic concept. If these acts, and I'm not 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.640 talking about acci or playing club you know who are 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.240 scraping by to begin with, but the big acts playing theaters, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:09.359 playing arenas, can they survive not working in excess of 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.040 a year? So most acts work on a cycle at 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.880 some point where there they could be working a record 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.599 for a year and a half, then they're not on 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.040 for a year, than they're back on for a year 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.840 and a half. Those acts could probably survive because they 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.800 have other sources of revenue, which are what are those 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:32.640 other sources royalties? Um uh, mostly royalties, whether it's the airplay, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.760 whether it's sound exchange, whether it's all the other sources 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.360 of revenues that artists can. But we do know that 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.120 a lot of those revenues are going to be much lower. Um. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:47.479 I was sent a document today that from Europe about 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.560 what's going on on that side of things. Broadcast revenues 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.040 are down. If broadcast revenues are down, then performing rights 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.560 revenues are down. Okay, so in Europe it's a percentage 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.200 as opposed to same in Canada, it's percentage of gross revenue. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.000 Yeah yeah. And like in Canada, recently the Canadian government 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:13.000 um uh gave gave the broadcasters a thirty million dollar 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.440 like okay, hold off, you don't have to pay right now, Okay, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.360 just so I know, because in America we tend not 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.760 to know the rest of the world. To what degree 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.800 is radio in Canada the CBC controlled by the government, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.600 and to what degree is it private? So the CBC 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:33.080 is all is all not government, but it's I guess 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.200 it's public. Let's just call it public broadcast but supported 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.599 by the government. But most of real radio outside of 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:44.080 the CBC is all private. The all big radio chains. Um, 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.520 you've got Chorus, You've got Bell Media, uh shaw, You've 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.640 got tons of big, big radio chains out there. So 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.200 those are the commercial radio stations. Okay, So let's go 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.920 back to acts. You know, there are some acts from 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:02.080 the eighties even the seventies who played sheds every year. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.640 And I was discussing this actually with Irving days off, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.320 and I said, why are they going out every year? 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.680 Said they need the money so we all can expand 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.880 to our lifestyle. You know, if you're planning on making 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.440 a million dollars and make nothing, you're not gonna be 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.280 able to pay for all your houses. Oh listen, it's 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.880 a problem. It's a problem for managers too. It's a 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.160 big problem on the management side. My business is not 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:29.680 just mine, but almost all managers it's decimated. There's nothing there. Um, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.920 it's it's a real problem you're seeing. I was talking 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.400 to one manager the other day and they manage basically 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.880 theater size acts and they have about four or five 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.560 of them that are regularly touring. They figured that this 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.680 year alone, from now till the end of the year, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.760 as the manager side, is gonna lose seven hundred thousand 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.440 dollars in commission. Now, if you're a mid size or 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:55.800 small to midsize management company with five employees, and that's 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.520 that's your nut for that's the money you're gonna make 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.760 for a couple of years. Because you're acts are on 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.200 cycle right now. That can put you out of business 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.240 in it if you don't have all that money. So 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.920 it's not just it's not just the acts, it's the 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:14.520 managers too. So it's a practical matter because what we 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.600 do know is live business is going to come back 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:22.560 last probably even after the movie theaters. And because everybody 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:27.200 is side by side, So the question becomes, how are 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.880 these people gonna make it through? Well, that's the big thing. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.679 I mean right now, you know, we're looking everybody, like 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.840 in the States, just like here, are all looking for 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.040 government bailants. They're looking for a way for the government 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.720 to support the industry. It's a big problem. Um, it's 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.680 not going to go away that quickly. And and we're 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:49.839 looking we're looking for we're being asked by government to say, okay, 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.320 what's your short term needs and what are your long 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.680 term needs? And when we're looking at the long term needs, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.040 we're looking at two year needs, not just six month 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.040 needs or nine month needs. And and it's a big problem. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.920 And especially for the artists. I mean, we recently did 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.960 a survey up here amongst artists and managers and um, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.520 you know, se or more of the artists and managers 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:18.440 income came from live That's a problem. Okay. Now, the 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.559 uh in the US, the music business has gotten together 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.080 to try to get money. In Canada, is the business 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.640 already getting money. So what they've done in terms of 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.200 they've done not sector business because they look at culture 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.480 as one sector, so that includes film TV because we've 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.440 always had a lot of grants and things like that 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.200 for I P. So if you're a record company making records, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.400 you can get grants. If you're an independent artist, you 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.240 can get money to make records, touring, stuff like that. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.600 But there's no money per se to cover lost revenue. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.480 And if the lost revenue is how you're supposed to 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.280 pay all your bills, it's a problem. Um. There has 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:05.040 been some um, some money put out there, uh two 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.640 thousand dollars a month for self employed people, but right 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.240 now it's only for four months. There's obviously there's talk 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.520 about that being extended for longer. Um. There's grants. There's 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:21.080 labor grant subsidies, so you can get um subsidized for 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:28.600 up to of your your salaried employees. There's loans that 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.800 being offered, not as big as the ones that are 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.920 being offered in the States, but um, you know, we 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.120 have a different size economy. So there's some loans that 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:43.440 are partially repayable and and partially forgivable, those kinds of things. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.240 But every day they keep announcing new versions of the 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.880 same thing, because every time they announced something, people come 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.000 back and say, well, that's not gonna work. That's not 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:58.240 gonna work. Today they announced a rent subsidy for for businesses, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.520 you know, like restaurants that are going to be closed 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.600 let's say for three, four or five months, but their 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.400 landlords still need to get paid. So now there's a 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.360 rent subsidy. But the way they positioned it is they'll 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.160 give the money to the landlords so they won't have 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.240 to charge the tenants. But everyone's wondering, well, how you're 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.319 gonna know if your landlord actually got that subsidy or not. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.120 So there's a question on one of the checks and 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.200 balances there, and it's a moving target because everyone's still 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.959 trying to figure out how this is all going to work. Okay, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:33.000 let's start at the very beginning. I've have people actually 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:38.000 gotten money from the government as we talk. Yes, okay, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.360 let's just assume you're a bar band, and let's say 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.200 you can play outside your own town. But you're playing, 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.080 let's make the number somewhat big, somewhere between seventy five 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.920 and three fifty seats at night. Can you get money 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.400 for that? Yes, you can't get money replacement for that, 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.080 but you right now you can get each person in 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.480 the band can get two thousand dollars a month, Okay, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.480 But if someone is self employed and they're not in 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.640 the music business, they're going to get the same two thousand. Yeah. Like, 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.840 I have a friend who was a server, who's an 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:14.520 actor who makes her money serving when she's not acting, Um, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:19.600 she's making She was on unemployment insurance or employment insurance, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.400 let's call it. But when the two thousand came out, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.400 it actually worked out to higher than her employment insurance, 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.240 so they actually put her on the two thousand a 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.400 month instead of the employment insurance. When that two thousand 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.280 a month runs out, she'll go back to the other insurance. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.959 But for now they may be extending it. I mean 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.200 it's supposed to be for four months, going back to 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.040 the middle of March. So most people in the arts 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.960 are going on that program for now, and it's eight 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.760 thousand dollars minimum that they're gonna get, Okay. So in 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:57.160 America we had uh this, you know, it's funny everybody 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.959 keeps labeling. Paul Krugman said, it's not truly a stimulus. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.880 But there were these uh this two trillion dollar amount, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.679 and there's been a big argument over where this money 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.760 is coming from and whether there should be more money. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.080 Is there a big argument about that in Canada. Yeah. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.240 In fact, we're going to the UH to the to 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.240 the government over the next couple of days and early 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.559 next week to present what the short term needs are 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.120 for our sector and and what the long term needs 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.120 are for our sector. UM. And I think they're probably 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.439 gonna come up with sectors specific UM relief programs UM 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.360 across the board. Because you're hearing it. Oil and gas 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:46.800 have their own problems, UM. Obviously, the restaurant business has 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.280 their own problems. We're approaching it. UM. There's there's been 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.360 a coalition that we've worked together on other issues like 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.360 copyright and things like that. So it's gonna be all 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.400 the industries together as a coalition trying to UH to 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.240 talk to the government about the needs of our sector. Okay, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:09.080 I guess being more specific. Is there a backlash from 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:13.000 more conservative people saying this is too much money being spent. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.680 We haven't heard none of that yet. I think that 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.400 interestingly enough, UM, I haven't seen it. You know, I'm 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:28.720 active on Twitter, Um, I'm I'm I'm paying attention to 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.080 the news. I'm even watching the Conservative you know, we 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.840 have a liberal government and power. But um, if you 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:41.320 don't understand the parliamentary system, the second party is the Conservatives. Um. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.880 Whatever they've been talking about, the one thing they're not 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.600 talking about is not spending more money. They're talking about 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.640 how do we get more money into the hands of 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.800 people and things like that. So everyone's on the same 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.960 page that it's all about relief, relief, relief, relief. Okay, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.720 not that you can answer this question, where's this money 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.800 going to come from? Well, you know they have this 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:08.360 big printing press and they just they just printed out 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.520 like in the like in Money Heist, you know how 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.360 they printed the money and then the money just appeared. Okay, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:15.760 what do you want? What are you watching? What are 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.120 you screaming? Well, on a couple of year recommendations, I 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.160 went through Money Heist. I wasn't Ozark fan already. I 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.880 went through Babylon Berlin. Um, I haven't decided to start 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.840 anything yet. Uh. I saw an ad for something and 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.280 I was like, did I see that? And I went, oh, yeah, 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.760 I saw the whole thing. Because it's like it's all 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.480 where I will tell you. I just watched the Gordon 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.240 Lightfoot documentary, which was really really good, and I was 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.120 thinking of you when I watched it because I didn't 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.920 realize he went to UM college. He went to music 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.920 college in Los Angeles. That's where he went to school. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.520 He went to like some special music school at eighteen 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.840 nineteen years old in Los ange to us and he 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.560 was in like this. He was the singer in this 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.720 big band that was from the school and it's all 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:08.360 in the dock and I was like, I had no 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.360 idea about all that. Uh, well, my question becomes, how 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.560 come all the conversation in the media and amongst friends 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.200 is about TV as opposed to music. Well, it's an 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.560 interesting thing that you say that because we know streaming 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.480 is down. Like streaming is down. No, it's gone back up. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.240 It's gone back like. That was a guy. I got 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.240 a big bone to pick. Uh. He's a nice enough guy, 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.640 but that's tim ingam. He's also in Rolling Stone. He 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.200 fancies himself and analyst and he looks at dat and 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.520 it seems to me he comes up with a theory 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.680 and then has the data to establish that. Just after 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.760 he published that music streaming was down, Uh, Spotify put 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.800 out a press release saying that was not true. And 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.360 then this last week, there's a story that's streaming has 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.880 gone up. Yes, streaming syne ups have gone up. Talking 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.960 all the I'm telling you no, No, the actual number 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.399 of tracks has gone on. I'm talking to all the 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.160 independent labels that I'm on a regular like every other 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.679 day conference call an email with and in fact I 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.119 was just on a big email trail with all of 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.399 them before we even got on here. All of them 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.760 are saying their numbers it's down. Well, I can't speak 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.320 to those specific people, and I'd rather not argue while 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.479 we're doing this podcast. But one thing we do know 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.200 is it's irrelevant because as long as people are paying 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.600 their subscribing fees, whether volume goes up or down, there's 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.800 still the same pot of goal, right, But it does matter. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.720 I guess maybe if you're dealing with a whole bunch 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.719 of independent labels that have more independent type acts that 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.439 don't live in the pop world, that maybe in the 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.480 pop world it's gone it's gone way up. But on 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.359 the well that that goes to another point, and this 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.439 has got little to do with COVID nineteen. But uh, 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.600 when you look at the streaming numbers, it's sort of 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.600 like the rest of the world certainly United States, and 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.000 there's winners or losers. If you're Drake who happens to 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.359 be from Toronto or someone of that caliber, you're making 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.440 more money on c on singles than you ever were. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.640 But if you're not Drake and you're someone who's playing Americana, 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.760 you can't live off the royal No. No. And in fact, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.800 the other thing that people aren't even realizing is that 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.200 there's a lot of money is being made on the 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.639 on the sinc side of things, from from putting your 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.280 music in film and television. Well, all the productions are down, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.720 there's nothing going on, so that money goes to artists 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.160 on the writer's side, it goes to publishers, it goes 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.560 to labels on the master's side. So there's we're missing 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.200 out on a lot of that money too. So it's 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.199 not and as I say, in Canada, they're giving too 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.520 grand to everybody. Supposedly every bed in America is getting 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.080 or there's big There seems to be some bumps on 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.320 the road to them getting them. But don't you don't 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:03.280 you get an autograph with it? Yes, we do so, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:09.800 uh without making it specifically about our president. Um, do 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.240 you think this is a good time or a bad 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:17.160 time for developing acts. UM. Well, I think there's there's 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.400 I think there's a lot of opportunities there. When I've 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:26.160 sat on a lot of m zoom UH gatherings amongst 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.440 I'm the vice president of the MMF, which is the 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.199 Music Managers Forum, which hasn't didn't really catch on as 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.159 much in the US as it has around the rest 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.280 of the world. It's very strong in Canada and very 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.680 strong in in the UK and a lot of other territories. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.000 UM And so we've been hosting a lot of these 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.600 get togethers with other young managers and what we've been 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.440 saying is now is a great time to cultivate an audience. 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.800 If you can get music out there, if you can 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:54.960 get content out there, if you can do live stream 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.119 things like that, you could probably gain some fans and 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.280 build some fans. So when you actually do have an 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.320 opportunity to release the music and get out and play 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.280 in front of people, maybe your constituency will be that 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.280 much bigger because you have somewhat of a captive audience. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.560 And just like watching you know, streaming uh UH TV 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:18.240 series or movies, people are constantly looking for something new 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.800 to uh to check out, so I think, however, you 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.440 know if you check out Live Nation. I was dealing 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.919 with Michael Rapino and I suggested he did an excellent 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.439 job of listing the streams, and what we do know 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.840 is just like streaming music, it's kind of overwhelming. So 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.040 many people are streaming shows, yeah, but there's just just 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.440 many people that don't want to watch the biggest artists 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.080 out there and want to want to discover something new. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.480 Are the same people that go to the grimy clubs 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.240 because they want to find a new band that they're into. 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.840 And and that's where you're going to cultivate your audience 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.000 from anyways, And at some point it's gonna be word 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.560 of mouth. Anyway, someone watches it, another friend tells another friend, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.920 and you know you're building your audience. But to sit 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.800 there and do nothing is not the answer. It's okay, 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.200 you're a manager. You famously built the tragically Hip. If 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.120 you had an act today, an act that could sustain 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:18.080 on its income, let's say it Soul Theaters hundred or 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.320 three thousand seats, what would you be telling that act 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.760 to do today? I'd be telling them to engage their 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.040 audience and keep them interested and keep them, keep them, 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.600 keep them engaged with, you know, doing some live streams. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.119 UM the hip hop world right now. I don't know 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.320 if you've seen this, Bob, but some of them are 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.480 doing these UM these live streams and they're attracting three 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.280 hundred and fifty thousand people to the live streams with 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.600 tip jars, and they're actually generating a lot of revenue 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.360 from people. Even if people put in a dollar, it's 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.280 three thousand dollars. So there is ways to do it 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:56.280 out there, especially if they can't get to it um. So, 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.840 so depending on the size of your act, if you 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.960 have an audience and your audience really wants to see you, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.120 and you're offering something that they probably would never get 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.640 to see anyways. Because if you think about it, if 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.080 you're if you're an act playing theaters, but now you're 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.080 gonna do acoustic performances in a living room, a lot 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.199 of people would be yeah, I'll pay to see that. 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.439 People are charging through Patreon, they're charging you know, twenty 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.440 dollars or ten dollars or tip jars. I think there's 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.159 a lot of ways to generate income. I don't think 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.800 you're not gonna make You're not gonna make what you're 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:32.879 making selling out a theater that if you're managing an 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.280 act and you're trying to both sustain and grow an audience, 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:38.800 would you say to give it away for free or 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:43.440 to charge? I would say to charge. I would say 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.760 to charge for some things and other things to give away. 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.479 But i'd also you know, one of the ways you 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.719 can you can give it away by saying, you know, 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.800 provide us with your your phone numbers so you can 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.040 be part of our text team, or provide us with 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.600