WEBVTT - How Ayahuasca Works 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.560 Welcome to Stuff you should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:13.520 dot com. Hold on and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.400 Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Brian, there's Jerry over there, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:23.520 and this is stuff you should know. The poor attempts 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:29.120 at Spanish edition and yet another drug cast mm hmm, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:35.000 covering all the drugs everybody, one by one, and this 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.640 one isasca. We'll have to do one just specifically on 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.720 d m T sometime too, all right, because there you 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.600 know it's the d m T is the base of ayahuasca, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.519 but it's different. I mean, there's other stuff going on 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.400 with ayahuasca that d MT doesn't have them spoiler alert. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:54.760 DMT is its own thing for sure, from what I 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.800 can tell. Ye, okay, so it's agreed then, Chuck, Yeah, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.959 but you just ruined this whole episod Oh sorry, Well 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.760 let's go back to the beginning then. Uh. Yeah. Ayahuasca 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:08.920 it has a bunch of different names. And this is 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.000 something I didn't know because I'm a dummy. I didn't 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.800 know anything about ayahuasca except to use it as jokes. 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.360 You know, it's been sort of a running punchline, like 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.640 you know, you have to forgive me, I'm on ayahuasca 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:25.600 that kind of thing. But uh, I thought it was 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.679 that was the name of like a plant, and it 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.560 was one plant called ayahuasca, sort of like what's the 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.039 what's the other plant? The corn Yeah, just sort of 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.760 like corn um. No, the one that like, you know, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:47.560 the doors took the Yeah, mescaline. Yeah, but that's not 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.200 the plant. What's the plant is mescal in the plant 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.200 to what a peyote? That's right, But that's the mescalin 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.960 buttons on a peyote plant, right, which we haven't covered yet. 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.040 We should do one a peyote. Bam, another drug cast 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.320 come and at you. But ayahuasca is not to the 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.279 name of a plant. Uh. It is actually a concoction 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.200 made from a couple of different plants. Yeah. Yeah, and 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.959 originally it was just one plant actually known as the 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:23.400 vine of death. These let's see what we can do. Okay, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.280 you did the time wasting throat, clear that move it's stalling. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.240 So if you go and drink ayahuasca today, you're probably 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.040 getting one that's a combination of a plant called psycho 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.560 Tria voritas. I think I got that and a vine 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:47.280 known as Banistereopsis copy c A a p I so psychotria, 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:54.520 voritas and bareness. Man, there's a lot of letters in 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.960 that one. Yeah, but if it's it's pronounced like it 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.360 looks banistereopsis, you got it all right? Copy right? And 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.560 that one, the second one, the copy is the vine, correct, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.320 that's the o g ayahuasca ingredients, right, the vine of death. 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.080 And this is I guess we haven't even really said. 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.440 We've danced around it. It is a a drug concoction 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:23.119 that they have been taking, um since who knows when, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.640 but since before Europeans arrived in the New World, a 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.320 long long time in South America. Yeah, and specifically they 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.160 think it may have originated among the Napo Runa tribe 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.000 in Ecuador, right, but it's spread throughout the Amazon basin. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:44.040 And today, if you are a well to do tech 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.000 worker who makes your way down to South America, you're 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.480 probably going to go to Peru to check out your 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:58.240 ayahuasca trip. Yeah. This became a thing, weirdly uh in 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:03.480 Silicon Valley. Uh. If you were a young, rich entrepreneur 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.320 in Silicon Valley that has a couple of hit apps 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.280 on your hand, it became a thing to throw on 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.280 your hoodie and travel to South America to take part 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:17.400 in an ayahuasca ceremony, and I'm not sure. I mean, 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.559 I guess I know what happens is one one dude 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.480 does that and then says, bro, you gotta do this 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.760 right a late night conversation, A burning man opens the Absolutely, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.200 that's how it went down, and then before you know it, 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.400 it's a thing. Right. You know, there's some kids in 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.200 Silicon Valley being like, wait a minute, wait a minute, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.440 are they making fun of us right now? And then 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.440 they feel that that hood that they've never even put 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.520 over their head, itching their neck, and they're like a 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:57.239 stupid stereotypes being true? Oh man, at any rate? Aahuasca Yes, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.240 so um, it did start out as a traditional but 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.039 there's like, you know, the whole popularity that grew among 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.560 Westerners traveling down to South America for whatever reason. I'm sure, 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.080 um for vision quests, for fun, a drug they hadn't 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.800 tried yet, who cares. There's a lot of reasons that 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.000 people travel down to South America to partake in this um. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:21.360 Certainly most of them not nefarious or dumb. Um. Probably 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.240 a lot of the reasons were great, But the the 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:30.880 influx of Westerners and Western money has radically altered ayahuasca 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.200 and and the ceremonies and rites and the people who 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.000 perform ayahuasca ceremonies just over there, like the last ten 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.320 or so years dramatically. Yeah, one might even say that 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.880 the Western white man has ruined the whole thing. I 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.560 think that there's I think it's been commercialized, but that 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:54.320 there are still very much um, the the original or 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.800 the real deal is protected in many ways by by 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.479 the people who are like, yeah, you guys, go drink 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.880 it over there. We've got our thing going on over here. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.719 And in fact, there's at least two churches in the 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:11.640 United States that practice ayahuasca diets. UM that that are 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:17.440 real deal religions as far as the Supreme Courts concerned. Um, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.400 that clearly show that there are there is real legit 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:26.360 ayahuasca ceremonies being practiced throughout the world. I think both 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.120 of them are are from Brazil. Yeah. In two thousand six, UH, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.800 the Supreme Court said that, uh the n I Oh 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:39.080 Do vegetal U d V was a legit religion. They 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.120 are in fact from Brazil Christian spiritualists. About seventeen thousand 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.640 UH adherents all over the world. Uh. And the literal 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.719 translation of that religion is the Union of the Plants. Right, 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.520 So it's like a plant religion and aahuasca is at 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.320 the center of this. Uh. Yeah. The other one is 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:07.640 a Christian syncretism like Santo. Yeah, that one is like, Um, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:13.320 they incorporate not just indigenous Brazilian and South American beliefs, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.840 but also some African indigenous beliefs, are folk beliefs as well. 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:22.040 Like it's it's a whole um, very big inclusive pantheon 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.800 that that is centered around visions from ayahuasca, like an 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:31.160 ayahuasca sacrament. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. Both protected in the 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.400 United States by law. Now that this is part of 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.400 this plant concoction is part of their religion. They cannot 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.960 be arrested for doing this because the legalities of it 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.400 is is is technically illegal. Um. It's a little great 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.160 whether or not the actual plant is illegal, is that right? Yeah? 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.560 Supposedly the plants themselves are not illegal. It's the combination 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.320 or the brew made from them that's illegal. That's what 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.920 I saw. I don't know that that's necessarily true, and 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.840 I would guess if the plants are still legal now, 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.280 they won't be in two three years, because you know, why, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.360 why make it legal? Why let it be legal? Yeah, 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.720 it's something people get enjoyment for. It comes from the earth. 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.920 Let's outlawed. Yeah, I don't know if enjoyment is quite 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.240 the right word though, from the way that um the 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.840 Grabster puts it that the an ayahuasca trip is not 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:31.560 necessarily fun. It's a harrowing psychological spiritual journey that you're undertaking. 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.360 All right, let's take a break, okay, alright, see you 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.600 getting excited over there. Uh and we'll talk a little 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.800 bit more about d m T and and kind of 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.440 what's going on in your body physiologically right after this. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.880 All right, So d m T, which you mentioned at 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.400 the onset the the one part of this concoction, the 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.040 p veritas contains d m T. You're gonna pronounce that, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.200 Oh yes, it's methyl trip to mean. Oh look at 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.080 you just rolls off the tongue now, doesn't it. Uh 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.920 So this is something not exclusive to p e verritas. 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.520 It's found in a bunch of psychedelic substances. And this 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:37.479 is something that can cause hallucinations, perhaps changes in your perception, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.120 your state of consciousness, your sense of self which will 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.080 really get into it. It has a lot to do 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.800 with the ayahuasca journey. Um. However, if you just eat 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.959 the d M t UM, it's not gonna have this 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.160 this kind of effect on you because Uh, there's an 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:58.920 enzyme called UH monoamine oxidase, and that's gonna break it 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.319 down in your digest to system before it gets absorbed. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.000 So you have to combine that with this copy vine 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.880 which prevents the uptake of it. Yeah, the copy vine 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:14.199 has an alkaloid called harmala alkaloid, and harmalines are psychotropic 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.560 and of themselves, which is why the UM the copy 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:22.040 vine alone used to just be ayahuasca. But the fact 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:27.800 that it prevents UM, your your the monoamine oxidase to 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.600 break down the d M t it allows your body 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.120 to absorb it and all of a sudden you're tripping balls. 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.079 Although I hear it's not all of a sudden. I 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.480 think it's it takes a good thirty minutes to come on, 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.839 and then it takes like a supplementary boost UM an 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.160 hour or so later to to really bring on like 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:52.960 the kind of transcendent experience that people are looking for 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.400 when they take ayahuasca. So you've got the you've got 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.360 the d m T being absorbed. That's the one to 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.000 punch right. You've got the d MT itself, and then 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.280 you've got the plant that allows the d m T 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.199 to be absorbed. And when you put those two things together, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.760 the p veritas and the b copy, that's what the 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.360 that's the ayahuasca that you read about advice, that's what 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.800 they're talking about. Yeah, and these you know, this is 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:21.120 administered by a shaman um someone who ideally as a 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.360 shaman that knows what they're doing. And there's sometimes there 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.280 are other plants that are brewed in there as well, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.839 but uh not always. And sometimes it's brewed separately and 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.720 then combined later. Sometimes it all depends on which shaman 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.480 you go to, of what the ritual is like. Sometimes 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.920 you're included as part of it um. Sometimes it's like 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.240 a thick liquid t. Sometimes it's a paste. H it's 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.880 been described. No matter what it is, it seems like 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:52.880 around the horn. Everybody says it tastes awful, so awful 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.760 that that you can very easily throw up, which is 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.520 something that's pretty common with the um with an ayahuasca 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.400 it experiences. I didn't get that from the from the 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.280 taste though, I got that that that was like, once 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.720 it's in your body, it makes you nauseous and you 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.040 throw up, right, But like, oh this taste so bad, 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.959 I'm gonna puke it up. No, no, because then it 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.560 wouldn't be in your body long enough to be absorbed. Right. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.080 But I think the taste and the memory of the taste, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.120 combined with the nausea is enough to throw up. But 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.280 the whether whether you do throw up or not, it's 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.720 not necessarily like you're going to throw up. There the 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.880 the point, one of the points of an ayahuasca ceremony 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.760 is to throw up. You're meant to throw up, um, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.080 and you're you will actually be forced into this either 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.360 if you don't do it from the ayahuasca. You may 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.800 also be given something like tobacco juice, like a water 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.079 with tobacco that's soaked in it for a while, and 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.800 you'll be told to drink that so that you will 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.720 throw up. Because this idea of purging, whether it's throwing 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.239 up or diarrhea, is a very frequent side effect of ayahuasca, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.800 very frequent. Um, you are you are meant to be 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.680 purging your your body, and it's meant to be this 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.840 kind of symbolic spiritual purge of your ego, of all 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.280 the nastiness, of all the horrible nous that's a part 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.720 of you. You're getting it out as part of the 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.839 trip and as the trip sets in. Yeah, and the 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.840 taste has been described. The New York Times has said 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.160 it's like a um, muddy herbal taste. Uh. Someone from 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.000 vox dot com took it a gun named Shaun Illing. 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.920 He described it as a cup of motor oil diluted 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.800 with a splash of water. So I read, I read 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:40.720 it's almost as gross as a necko wafer. I don't 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.760 think I've ever had a neco wafer. Good on you have? 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.719 You know? What? Am I crazy? What are they not? 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.240 Go wafers like old timey kind of like chalky candy 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.800 that comes in a role. You've seen them. Probably you've 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.360 seen them and my old timey candy days exactly. I'm 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.679 sure I did. Yeah, So all right, I guess we 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.199 should talk a little bit about uh. Like you said, Um, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.920 it's orange. It's origins in the Napo River basin by 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.160 this Runa tribe like you said, Uh, And it's called 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.800 the vine of Death or the mother vine this copy, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.520 and they think that early on they may have just 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:22.480 taken this copy by itself, right, because the Brew it's 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.200 got the harm alins in it, that's not only an 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.520 m A o I but also has like its own 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.040 kind of psychoactive stuff going on. So that was the 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.400 original ayahuasca. Yeah, And we have written accounts from like 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.480 the seventeen hundreds when Jesuits would go to the Amazon 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.040 to try and you know, christianize folks and trip balls. Yeah, 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.080 because I'm sure the entry was like whoa, and that's it. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.200 Did you hear about the guy that was just killed 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:54.640 the missionary? Yes? On sendin Ali's Sentinel Island. Yeah, he 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.480 he It's like something from a movie. He went at 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.880 first and child shot an arrow through a bible that 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:07.240 he was holding. Apparently I hadn't heard about that, Yeah, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.960 because he had. He went back a few times and 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.720 was like journaling about it and said he basically like 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.560 held up his bible. It's like something from a movie 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.600 and an arrow was shot through it. And I'm like, dude, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.240 if that is not like, if you believe in God, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.000 that's a sign from God. Well, you you remember the 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.480 turnaround the man in the whole episode we talked about them. Yeah, 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.120 they were the ones that like you, like everyone knew 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.760 you just don't go anywhere near him. And some fishermen 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.160 had been killed like years a few years back, and 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.320 this guy I guess had tried um he decided he 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.800 was going to be the one. Yeah. I don't actually 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.320 know enough about the story, but he clearly was trying 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.360 to jane access to them. Yeah. Yeah, he was trying 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.240 to spread the word of Jesus and paid, like you're 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.760 not supposed it's illegal, I think, to even trespass there. 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.160 But he paid people sort of under the table to 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.040 take him there, and they did so, and those people 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.000 were arrested. Uh, and his family is saying, you need 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.400 to let these people go because he like really wanted 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.520 to do this. I see. It's very interesting. Yeah it is. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.680 It's crazy, but I just like that sounds like something 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.480 you would make up from a movie, like shooting an 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.960 arrow through the Bible they're holding upright, you know. Uh. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:17.480 So we got a little sidetrack, but we were talking 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.360 about the Jesuits like having this on record in the 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.360 seventeen hundreds when they went and they were like, hey, 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.720 there's something going down down here. That's very interesting. Yeah, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.560 And even William S. Burrows wrote the Yahee Letters um 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.680 in nineteen sixty three, and it was about his experience 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.880 with the Iowa scar vine. And apparently the the practitioners 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.520 at the time knew, um well into the to the 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.080 the twentieth century, that you could combine it with the 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.160 p veritis fine and and have a completely different experience. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.360 But that wasn't necessarily the point. That was like an 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.920 optional ceremony you could perform. But the most, the most 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:01.040 widespread and traditional ceremony was just the vine of death, right. Yeah. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.159 And then at some point somebody started putting them together 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.200 and worried about this got out and the mid two 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:12.240 thousand's is when it just ayahuasca like kind of hit 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.600 the public consciousness in the West. Yeah, I mean in 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.800 the sixties, of course, uh in in certain uh you know, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.280 subcultures in America, they knew about it because of william 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.119 S Burrows and people seeking out you know, things like 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.800 peyote and all kinds of psychedelic experiences, but it definitely 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.199 was not sort of in the main stream until you know, 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.760 not not too long ago. And even still I think 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.840 even at the time it was strictly the harm alines 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.480 and and just the the vine that was being used, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.320 the copy vine. It wasn't, it wasn't. Somebody started putting 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:53.480 it together frequently with them the veritas plant, and that's 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.920 when it became hugely popular. Yeah, so popular now that 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.960 there is iowasa get tourism big time like going on 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.919 in South America. And uh said the central part is 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.840 Peru's uh a room bomba valley. And if you, I mean, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.919 if you are going down for an ayahuasca experience like 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.600 a spiritual quest, is is the reason you're going down there. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.600 I don't fault you for that at all, um, But 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.800 you have to understand the the You have to do 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.400 your research. You can't just show up in South America 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.879 and be like, all right, somebody give me some ayahuasca, 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.080 because there are a lot of um in scrupulous and 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.320 nefarious outfits that have come up to to take advantage 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:44.080 explicitly of that kind of Western tourist, the ill informed 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.560 Western tourist who is going to have a horrible, terrible 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.600 trip and not going to get the spiritual experience you're 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.840 looking for. Um. So you have to do your research 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.480 because there are some legitimate ayahuasca outfits in South America. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.800 But you, um, they're they're not going to take you 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.440 if you just show up down there and you're gonna 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.160 end up in some some in a bad situation. Yeah 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.200 for sure. Um So, taking part in one of these ceremonies, 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:15.920 let's say you do find like a legit shaman who's 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.760 willing to take your American dollars or whatever, however you're 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:25.560 paying your golden gets and drinkets. Uh, it's still it's 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.280 sort of funny. It all goes back to Burrows with 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.920 the set and setting thing, which is what he famously 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.000 preached about any psychedelic experience is to really put a 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.120 lot of thought into the set, in the setting where 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.480 you're gonna do this so it goes well for you. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:43.639 Um So, as this uh concoction is being brewed, like 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.679 I said before, sometimes you're taking part in this and 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.040 helping to mash it up and brew the t um. 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.919 But what they're really trying to do is, um, the 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.920 whole ceremony isn't just like for show. It's it's all 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.840 part of the thing to get you settled in and 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.320 focused on kind of the right things going in, Like 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.680 what do you want to accomplish here. What do you 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.480 want to find out about yourself? What questions do you 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.520 have about yourself? And really get into that that frame 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.639 of mind as they hand you your puke bucket. Although 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.840 I would recommend bringing your own, Oh yeah, I hadn't 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.679 thought about that. I would not want to reused puke bucket. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.199 Good lord. I hadn't even considered that it would be 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.680 B y O B for me. So, um yeah, I 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.760 can just totally see how as a as a Westerner, 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.520 you would just be like, come on, we don't need 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.520 the ceremony stuff like this is just give me the 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.000 good stuff. But that, like you said, that's the point 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.160 is to ease you into it, to get your mind 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:44.879 and body prepared for this, this enormous trip you're about 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.119 to go on, because if you just get dropped right 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.719 in the middle of it without any kind of preparation 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.720 or without any kind of assistance, you're going to lose 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:57.960 your marbles pretty pretty well. Um So that that is 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.479 a big part of going on in Iowaska. A journey 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:06.000 is is having somebody who's competent, trained, and um empathetic 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.720 and willing to stay there with you to prepare you 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.119 to stay with you, to keep an eye on you. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.080 You need to be monitored. You can't be up and 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.760 like just running off into the jungle by yourself, because 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.560 terrible things are gonna happen to you in that situation. UM. 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.320 And then to help you afterward as well, and from 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.480 from some of the preliminary research that's starting to come in, 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:31.480 if you undertake an ayahuasca journey, I guess is that 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.720 it's the best word I can come up with. UM. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.399 Under the right setting, under the right guidance, with the 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.919 right support, both pre during and after, it can have 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:45.960 profound effects on your spirituality and your sense of connectedness 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.600 to the universe. It can also possibly help you with 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:53.200 UM with diagnosed mental illness as well. Yeah, well we'll 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.119 get to the illness part, mental illness part at the end. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:22:00.439 But UM, just your standard is sort of truth seeker, 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:04.480 let's say, okay, UM, it's very much tight into like 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.119 what the in ideal conditions and like the sixties and 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.399 seventies with ellis well and just beyond but the LSD 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:14.080 experience and that Uh, there was a lot of talk 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:18.119 in the sixties about the ego and every you know, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:23.359 hip musician and in the United States, talked about stripping 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.800 away the ego from Brian Wilson to the Mamas and 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.960 the Papa's too, you know, Neil Young, Uh is stripping 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.840 away that ego of yourself basically, which which means kind 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.320 of getting outside yourself to the point where, uh, you're 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.199 not looking at the world around you and how it 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.000 affects you. But uh, there there is no you. There 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.600 is no It's a loss of self such that's so 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.600 profound that you can only see the world and people 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.760 around you as they exist in reality. Uh. It's it's 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.359 a pretty sort of deep, trippy thing to try and 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.560 describe in words on a podcast, but I think that's 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.280 sort of the general thing is is uh washing that 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.439 ego down to where it's not around anymore, and you 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.720 get like a true sense of the world around you, 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.760 like for the maybe for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:15.720 And the the ego in and of itself isn't a 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.320 bad thing, like it's it's they think that it developed 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.000 among animals, is a like that's your sense of self awareness. 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.240 That's the thing that leads you to want to preserve 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.800 your own life, to get away from danger, to realize 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.720 that like you can die because there is a you, right, 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.840 It's a very basic thing. Um. The problem is is 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:39.240 in humans, as we've evolved, our ego has also evolved, 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:41.440 and it can get to a point where it's unhealthy, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.480 it's kind of toxic. It can help you develop bad, 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:47.600 bad relationships, people don't want to be around you. It 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.119 can also affect your self esteem if your egos underdeveloped. 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.000 There's a lot of problems that can go wrong with 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.919 the ego, and so a lot of people who prescribe 0:23:55.960 --> 0:24:00.000 psychedelics to deal with that kind of thing, say, psychedelics 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.919 strip away the ego. And now that we've gotten to 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.760 the point where where we are advanced enough as a 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.080 civilization that we can give people acid and put them 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.520 in the an MRI machine, the Wonder machine and watch 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.800 what happens, we've shown that, Yes, it seems like the 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:20.600 the areas that are responsible for generating the ego, don't 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:24.239 they get kind of turned off while you're under the 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:27.280 influence of psychedelics, and it allows you to connect to 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:29.760 see outside of yourself, to see that you are connected 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:32.439 with all of this other stuff. So this whole ego 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:37.240