1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Hold on and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Brian, there's Jerry over there, 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: and this is stuff you should know. The poor attempts 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: at Spanish edition and yet another drug cast mm hmm, 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: covering all the drugs everybody, one by one, and this 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: one isasca. We'll have to do one just specifically on 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: d m T sometime too, all right, because there you 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: know it's the d m T is the base of ayahuasca, 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: but it's different. I mean, there's other stuff going on 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: with ayahuasca that d MT doesn't have them spoiler alert. 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: DMT is its own thing for sure, from what I 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: can tell. Ye, okay, so it's agreed then, Chuck, Yeah, 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: but you just ruined this whole episod Oh sorry, Well 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning then. Uh. Yeah. Ayahuasca 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: it has a bunch of different names. And this is 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: something I didn't know because I'm a dummy. I didn't 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: know anything about ayahuasca except to use it as jokes. 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's been sort of a running punchline, like 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, you have to forgive me, I'm on ayahuasca 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But uh, I thought it was 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: that was the name of like a plant, and it 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: was one plant called ayahuasca, sort of like what's the 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: what's the other plant? The corn Yeah, just sort of 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: like corn um. No, the one that like, you know, 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: the doors took the Yeah, mescaline. Yeah, but that's not 27 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: the plant. What's the plant is mescal in the plant 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: to what a peyote? That's right, But that's the mescalin 29 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: buttons on a peyote plant, right, which we haven't covered yet. 30 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: We should do one a peyote. Bam, another drug cast 31 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: come and at you. But ayahuasca is not to the 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,279 Speaker 1: name of a plant. Uh. It is actually a concoction 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: made from a couple of different plants. Yeah. Yeah, and 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: originally it was just one plant actually known as the 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: vine of death. These let's see what we can do. Okay, 36 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: you did the time wasting throat, clear that move it's stalling. 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: So if you go and drink ayahuasca today, you're probably 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: getting one that's a combination of a plant called psycho 39 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: Tria voritas. I think I got that and a vine 40 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: known as Banistereopsis copy c A a p I so psychotria, 41 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: voritas and bareness. Man, there's a lot of letters in 42 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, but if it's it's pronounced like it 43 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: looks banistereopsis, you got it all right? Copy right? And 44 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: that one, the second one, the copy is the vine, correct, 45 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: that's the o g ayahuasca ingredients, right, the vine of death. 46 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: And this is I guess we haven't even really said. 47 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: We've danced around it. It is a a drug concoction 48 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 1: that they have been taking, um since who knows when, 49 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: but since before Europeans arrived in the New World, a 50 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: long long time in South America. Yeah, and specifically they 51 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: think it may have originated among the Napo Runa tribe 52 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: in Ecuador, right, but it's spread throughout the Amazon basin. 53 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: And today, if you are a well to do tech 54 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: worker who makes your way down to South America, you're 55 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: probably going to go to Peru to check out your 56 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: ayahuasca trip. Yeah. This became a thing, weirdly uh in 57 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. Uh. If you were a young, rich entrepreneur 58 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley that has a couple of hit apps 59 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: on your hand, it became a thing to throw on 60 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: your hoodie and travel to South America to take part 61 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: in an ayahuasca ceremony, and I'm not sure. I mean, 62 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: I guess I know what happens is one one dude 63 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: does that and then says, bro, you gotta do this 64 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: right a late night conversation, A burning man opens the Absolutely, 65 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: that's how it went down, and then before you know it, 66 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: it's a thing. Right. You know, there's some kids in 67 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley being like, wait a minute, wait a minute, 68 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: are they making fun of us right now? And then 69 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: they feel that that hood that they've never even put 70 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: over their head, itching their neck, and they're like a 71 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: stupid stereotypes being true? Oh man, at any rate? Aahuasca Yes, 72 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: so um, it did start out as a traditional but 73 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: there's like, you know, the whole popularity that grew among 74 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: Westerners traveling down to South America for whatever reason. I'm sure, 75 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: um for vision quests, for fun, a drug they hadn't 76 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: tried yet, who cares. There's a lot of reasons that 77 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: people travel down to South America to partake in this um. 78 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: Certainly most of them not nefarious or dumb. Um. Probably 79 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons were great, But the the 80 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: influx of Westerners and Western money has radically altered ayahuasca 81 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: and and the ceremonies and rites and the people who 82 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: perform ayahuasca ceremonies just over there, like the last ten 83 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: or so years dramatically. Yeah, one might even say that 84 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: the Western white man has ruined the whole thing. I 85 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: think that there's I think it's been commercialized, but that 86 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: there are still very much um, the the original or 87 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: the real deal is protected in many ways by by 88 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: the people who are like, yeah, you guys, go drink 89 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: it over there. We've got our thing going on over here. 90 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: And in fact, there's at least two churches in the 91 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: United States that practice ayahuasca diets. UM that that are 92 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: real deal religions as far as the Supreme Courts concerned. Um, 93 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: that clearly show that there are there is real legit 94 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: ayahuasca ceremonies being practiced throughout the world. I think both 95 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: of them are are from Brazil. Yeah. In two thousand six, UH, 96 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said that, uh the n I Oh 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: Do vegetal U d V was a legit religion. They 98 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: are in fact from Brazil Christian spiritualists. About seventeen thousand 99 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: UH adherents all over the world. Uh. And the literal 100 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: translation of that religion is the Union of the Plants. Right, 101 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: So it's like a plant religion and aahuasca is at 102 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: the center of this. Uh. Yeah. The other one is 103 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: a Christian syncretism like Santo. Yeah, that one is like, Um, 104 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: they incorporate not just indigenous Brazilian and South American beliefs, 105 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: but also some African indigenous beliefs, are folk beliefs as well. 106 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a whole um, very big inclusive pantheon 107 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: that that is centered around visions from ayahuasca, like an 108 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: ayahuasca sacrament. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. Both protected in the 109 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: United States by law. Now that this is part of 110 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: this plant concoction is part of their religion. They cannot 111 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: be arrested for doing this because the legalities of it 112 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: is is is technically illegal. Um. It's a little great 113 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: whether or not the actual plant is illegal, is that right? Yeah? 114 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: Supposedly the plants themselves are not illegal. It's the combination 115 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: or the brew made from them that's illegal. That's what 116 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: I saw. I don't know that that's necessarily true, and 117 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: I would guess if the plants are still legal now, 118 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: they won't be in two three years, because you know, why, 119 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: why make it legal? Why let it be legal? Yeah, 120 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: it's something people get enjoyment for. It comes from the earth. 121 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: Let's outlawed. Yeah, I don't know if enjoyment is quite 122 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: the right word though, from the way that um the 123 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: Grabster puts it that the an ayahuasca trip is not 124 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: necessarily fun. It's a harrowing psychological spiritual journey that you're undertaking. 125 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break, okay, alright, see you 126 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: getting excited over there. Uh and we'll talk a little 127 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: bit more about d m T and and kind of 128 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: what's going on in your body physiologically right after this. 129 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: All right, So d m T, which you mentioned at 130 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: the onset the the one part of this concoction, the 131 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: p veritas contains d m T. You're gonna pronounce that, 132 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: Oh yes, it's methyl trip to mean. Oh look at 133 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: you just rolls off the tongue now, doesn't it. Uh 134 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: So this is something not exclusive to p e verritas. 135 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: It's found in a bunch of psychedelic substances. And this 136 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,479 Speaker 1: is something that can cause hallucinations, perhaps changes in your perception, 137 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: your state of consciousness, your sense of self which will 138 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: really get into it. It has a lot to do 139 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: with the ayahuasca journey. Um. However, if you just eat 140 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: the d M t UM, it's not gonna have this 141 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: this kind of effect on you because Uh, there's an 142 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: enzyme called UH monoamine oxidase, and that's gonna break it 143 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: down in your digest to system before it gets absorbed. 144 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: So you have to combine that with this copy vine 145 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: which prevents the uptake of it. Yeah, the copy vine 146 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: has an alkaloid called harmala alkaloid, and harmalines are psychotropic 147 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: and of themselves, which is why the UM the copy 148 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: vine alone used to just be ayahuasca. But the fact 149 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: that it prevents UM, your your the monoamine oxidase to 150 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: break down the d M t it allows your body 151 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: to absorb it and all of a sudden you're tripping balls. 152 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: Although I hear it's not all of a sudden. I 153 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: think it's it takes a good thirty minutes to come on, 154 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: and then it takes like a supplementary boost UM an 155 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: hour or so later to to really bring on like 156 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: the kind of transcendent experience that people are looking for 157 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: when they take ayahuasca. So you've got the you've got 158 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: the d m T being absorbed. That's the one to 159 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: punch right. You've got the d MT itself, and then 160 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: you've got the plant that allows the d m T 161 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: to be absorbed. And when you put those two things together, 162 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: the p veritas and the b copy, that's what the 163 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: that's the ayahuasca that you read about advice, that's what 164 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: they're talking about. Yeah, and these you know, this is 165 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: administered by a shaman um someone who ideally as a 166 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: shaman that knows what they're doing. And there's sometimes there 167 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: are other plants that are brewed in there as well, 168 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: but uh not always. And sometimes it's brewed separately and 169 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: then combined later. Sometimes it all depends on which shaman 170 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: you go to, of what the ritual is like. Sometimes 171 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: you're included as part of it um. Sometimes it's like 172 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: a thick liquid t. Sometimes it's a paste. H it's 173 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: been described. No matter what it is, it seems like 174 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: around the horn. Everybody says it tastes awful, so awful 175 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: that that you can very easily throw up, which is 176 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: something that's pretty common with the um with an ayahuasca 177 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: it experiences. I didn't get that from the from the 178 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: taste though, I got that that that was like, once 179 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: it's in your body, it makes you nauseous and you 180 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: throw up, right, But like, oh this taste so bad, 181 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna puke it up. No, no, because then it 182 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't be in your body long enough to be absorbed. Right. 183 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: But I think the taste and the memory of the taste, 184 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: combined with the nausea is enough to throw up. But 185 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: the whether whether you do throw up or not, it's 186 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily like you're going to throw up. There the 187 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: the point, one of the points of an ayahuasca ceremony 188 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: is to throw up. You're meant to throw up, um, 189 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: and you're you will actually be forced into this either 190 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: if you don't do it from the ayahuasca. You may 191 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: also be given something like tobacco juice, like a water 192 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: with tobacco that's soaked in it for a while, and 193 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: you'll be told to drink that so that you will 194 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: throw up. Because this idea of purging, whether it's throwing 195 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,239 Speaker 1: up or diarrhea, is a very frequent side effect of ayahuasca, 196 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: very frequent. Um, you are you are meant to be 197 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: purging your your body, and it's meant to be this 198 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: kind of symbolic spiritual purge of your ego, of all 199 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: the nastiness, of all the horrible nous that's a part 200 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: of you. You're getting it out as part of the 201 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: trip and as the trip sets in. Yeah, and the 202 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: taste has been described. The New York Times has said 203 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: it's like a um, muddy herbal taste. Uh. Someone from 204 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: vox dot com took it a gun named Shaun Illing. 205 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: He described it as a cup of motor oil diluted 206 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: with a splash of water. So I read, I read 207 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: it's almost as gross as a necko wafer. I don't 208 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: think I've ever had a neco wafer. Good on you have? 209 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: You know? What? Am I crazy? What are they not? 210 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: Go wafers like old timey kind of like chalky candy 211 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: that comes in a role. You've seen them. Probably you've 212 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: seen them and my old timey candy days exactly. I'm 213 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: sure I did. Yeah, So all right, I guess we 214 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: should talk a little bit about uh. Like you said, Um, 215 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: it's orange. It's origins in the Napo River basin by 216 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: this Runa tribe like you said, Uh, And it's called 217 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: the vine of Death or the mother vine this copy, 218 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: and they think that early on they may have just 219 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: taken this copy by itself, right, because the Brew it's 220 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: got the harm alins in it, that's not only an 221 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: m A o I but also has like its own 222 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: kind of psychoactive stuff going on. So that was the 223 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: original ayahuasca. Yeah, And we have written accounts from like 224 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds when Jesuits would go to the Amazon 225 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: to try and you know, christianize folks and trip balls. Yeah, 226 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: because I'm sure the entry was like whoa, and that's it. 227 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: Did you hear about the guy that was just killed 228 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: the missionary? Yes? On sendin Ali's Sentinel Island. Yeah, he 229 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: he It's like something from a movie. He went at 230 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: first and child shot an arrow through a bible that 231 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: he was holding. Apparently I hadn't heard about that, Yeah, 232 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: because he had. He went back a few times and 233 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: was like journaling about it and said he basically like 234 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: held up his bible. It's like something from a movie 235 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: and an arrow was shot through it. And I'm like, dude, 236 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: if that is not like, if you believe in God, 237 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: that's a sign from God. Well, you you remember the 238 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: turnaround the man in the whole episode we talked about them. Yeah, 239 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: they were the ones that like you, like everyone knew 240 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: you just don't go anywhere near him. And some fishermen 241 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: had been killed like years a few years back, and 242 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: this guy I guess had tried um he decided he 243 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: was going to be the one. Yeah. I don't actually 244 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: know enough about the story, but he clearly was trying 245 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: to jane access to them. Yeah. Yeah, he was trying 246 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: to spread the word of Jesus and paid, like you're 247 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: not supposed it's illegal, I think, to even trespass there. 248 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: But he paid people sort of under the table to 249 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: take him there, and they did so, and those people 250 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: were arrested. Uh, and his family is saying, you need 251 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: to let these people go because he like really wanted 252 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: to do this. I see. It's very interesting. Yeah it is. 253 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: It's crazy, but I just like that sounds like something 254 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: you would make up from a movie, like shooting an 255 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: arrow through the Bible they're holding upright, you know. Uh. 256 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: So we got a little sidetrack, but we were talking 257 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: about the Jesuits like having this on record in the 258 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds when they went and they were like, hey, 259 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: there's something going down down here. That's very interesting. Yeah, 260 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: And even William S. Burrows wrote the Yahee Letters um 261 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three, and it was about his experience 262 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: with the Iowa scar vine. And apparently the the practitioners 263 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: at the time knew, um well into the to the 264 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, that you could combine it with the 265 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: p veritis fine and and have a completely different experience. 266 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: But that wasn't necessarily the point. That was like an 267 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: optional ceremony you could perform. But the most, the most 268 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: widespread and traditional ceremony was just the vine of death, right. Yeah. 269 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: And then at some point somebody started putting them together 270 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: and worried about this got out and the mid two 271 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: thousand's is when it just ayahuasca like kind of hit 272 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: the public consciousness in the West. Yeah, I mean in 273 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: the sixties, of course, uh in in certain uh you know, 274 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: subcultures in America, they knew about it because of william 275 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: S Burrows and people seeking out you know, things like 276 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: peyote and all kinds of psychedelic experiences, but it definitely 277 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: was not sort of in the main stream until you know, 278 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: not not too long ago. And even still I think 279 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: even at the time it was strictly the harm alines 280 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: and and just the the vine that was being used, 281 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: the copy vine. It wasn't, it wasn't. Somebody started putting 282 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: it together frequently with them the veritas plant, and that's 283 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: when it became hugely popular. Yeah, so popular now that 284 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: there is iowasa get tourism big time like going on 285 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: in South America. And uh said the central part is 286 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: Peru's uh a room bomba valley. And if you, I mean, 287 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: if you are going down for an ayahuasca experience like 288 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: a spiritual quest, is is the reason you're going down there. 289 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: I don't fault you for that at all, um, But 290 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: you have to understand the the You have to do 291 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: your research. You can't just show up in South America 292 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: and be like, all right, somebody give me some ayahuasca, 293 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of um in scrupulous and 294 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: nefarious outfits that have come up to to take advantage 295 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: explicitly of that kind of Western tourist, the ill informed 296 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: Western tourist who is going to have a horrible, terrible 297 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: trip and not going to get the spiritual experience you're 298 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: looking for. Um. So you have to do your research 299 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: because there are some legitimate ayahuasca outfits in South America. 300 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: But you, um, they're they're not going to take you 301 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: if you just show up down there and you're gonna 302 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: end up in some some in a bad situation. Yeah 303 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: for sure. Um So, taking part in one of these ceremonies, 304 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: let's say you do find like a legit shaman who's 305 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: willing to take your American dollars or whatever, however you're 306 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: paying your golden gets and drinkets. Uh, it's still it's 307 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: sort of funny. It all goes back to Burrows with 308 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: the set and setting thing, which is what he famously 309 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: preached about any psychedelic experience is to really put a 310 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: lot of thought into the set, in the setting where 311 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: you're gonna do this so it goes well for you. 312 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: Um So, as this uh concoction is being brewed, like 313 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: I said before, sometimes you're taking part in this and 314 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: helping to mash it up and brew the t um. 315 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: But what they're really trying to do is, um, the 316 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: whole ceremony isn't just like for show. It's it's all 317 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: part of the thing to get you settled in and 318 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: focused on kind of the right things going in, Like 319 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: what do you want to accomplish here. What do you 320 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: want to find out about yourself? What questions do you 321 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: have about yourself? And really get into that that frame 322 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: of mind as they hand you your puke bucket. Although 323 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: I would recommend bringing your own, Oh yeah, I hadn't 324 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: thought about that. I would not want to reused puke bucket. 325 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: Good lord. I hadn't even considered that it would be 326 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: B y O B for me. So, um yeah, I 327 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: can just totally see how as a as a Westerner, 328 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: you would just be like, come on, we don't need 329 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: the ceremony stuff like this is just give me the 330 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: good stuff. But that, like you said, that's the point 331 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: is to ease you into it, to get your mind 332 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: and body prepared for this, this enormous trip you're about 333 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: to go on, because if you just get dropped right 334 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 1: in the middle of it without any kind of preparation 335 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: or without any kind of assistance, you're going to lose 336 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: your marbles pretty pretty well. Um So that that is 337 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: a big part of going on in Iowaska. A journey 338 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: is is having somebody who's competent, trained, and um empathetic 339 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: and willing to stay there with you to prepare you 340 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: to stay with you, to keep an eye on you. 341 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: You need to be monitored. You can't be up and 342 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: like just running off into the jungle by yourself, because 343 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: terrible things are gonna happen to you in that situation. UM. 344 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: And then to help you afterward as well, and from 345 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: from some of the preliminary research that's starting to come in, 346 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: if you undertake an ayahuasca journey, I guess is that 347 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: it's the best word I can come up with. UM. 348 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: Under the right setting, under the right guidance, with the 349 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: right support, both pre during and after, it can have 350 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: profound effects on your spirituality and your sense of connectedness 351 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: to the universe. It can also possibly help you with 352 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: UM with diagnosed mental illness as well. Yeah, well we'll 353 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: get to the illness part, mental illness part at the end. 354 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: But UM, just your standard is sort of truth seeker, 355 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: let's say, okay, UM, it's very much tight into like 356 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: what the in ideal conditions and like the sixties and 357 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: seventies with ellis well and just beyond but the LSD 358 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: experience and that Uh, there was a lot of talk 359 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: in the sixties about the ego and every you know, 360 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: hip musician and in the United States, talked about stripping 361 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: away the ego from Brian Wilson to the Mamas and 362 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: the Papa's too, you know, Neil Young, Uh is stripping 363 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: away that ego of yourself basically, which which means kind 364 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: of getting outside yourself to the point where, uh, you're 365 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: not looking at the world around you and how it 366 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: affects you. But uh, there there is no you. There 367 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: is no It's a loss of self such that's so 368 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: profound that you can only see the world and people 369 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: around you as they exist in reality. Uh. It's it's 370 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: a pretty sort of deep, trippy thing to try and 371 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: describe in words on a podcast, but I think that's 372 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: sort of the general thing is is uh washing that 373 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: ego down to where it's not around anymore, and you 374 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: get like a true sense of the world around you, 375 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: like for the maybe for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. 376 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: And the the ego in and of itself isn't a 377 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: bad thing, like it's it's they think that it developed 378 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: among animals, is a like that's your sense of self awareness. 379 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: That's the thing that leads you to want to preserve 380 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: your own life, to get away from danger, to realize 381 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: that like you can die because there is a you, right, 382 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: It's a very basic thing. Um. The problem is is 383 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: in humans, as we've evolved, our ego has also evolved, 384 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: and it can get to a point where it's unhealthy, 385 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of toxic. It can help you develop bad, 386 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: bad relationships, people don't want to be around you. It 387 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: can also affect your self esteem if your egos underdeveloped. 388 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems that can go wrong with 389 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: the ego, and so a lot of people who prescribe 390 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: psychedelics to deal with that kind of thing, say, psychedelics 391 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: strip away the ego. And now that we've gotten to 392 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: the point where where we are advanced enough as a 393 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: civilization that we can give people acid and put them 394 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: in the an MRI machine, the Wonder machine and watch 395 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: what happens, we've shown that, Yes, it seems like the 396 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: the areas that are responsible for generating the ego, don't 397 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,239 Speaker 1: they get kind of turned off while you're under the 398 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: influence of psychedelics, and it allows you to connect to 399 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: see outside of yourself, to see that you are connected 400 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: with all of this other stuff. So this whole ego 401 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: depletion or ego stripping, um, it's a major component of 402 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: not just ayahuasca, but all psychedelics. But it is a 403 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: big it's a big reason why people undertake ayahuasca. UM 404 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: journeys again, but get this scissor. There was something I 405 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: hadn't realized before, Chuck, So that from those m r 406 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: I studies, they found that, um, there's something called the 407 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: default mode network, which is the thing that keeps your 408 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: body humming and keeps your It's the part of your 409 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: brain that's going while you're not thinking, right, And they 410 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: found that when the default mode network is suppressed and 411 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: your frontal cortex is activated, that's when it seems that 412 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: your um, your ego is at the least, it's when 413 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: your egos turned off and you're free to connect with 414 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: the universe or whatever. Right. Well, that default mode network 415 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: is a very primitive part of our brain. It's a 416 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: very primitive system of our brain, and it kind of 417 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: suggests in a way that the loss of ego is 418 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: something that we may eventually evolve to. In't that cool 419 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: because if your frontal cortex is what's being activated in 420 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: your default mode network is inactivated, that's like your ancient 421 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: brain and your evolved brain. One's activated and one's one's suppressed, 422 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: and your egos gone. That That says to me like, well, yeah, 423 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: if we keep evolving a frontal cortex, I wonder if 424 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: lose our ego at some point or at least it 425 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: will be radically altered. Interesting, I thought so too. Yeah, 426 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: so what can happen? Uh? You know, like like any 427 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: sort of psychedelic trip, it's going to be completely um, 428 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: singular to the person that's doing it. There is no 429 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: across the board sort of sweeping statements you can make. 430 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: But um, you strip away that ego and anything can happen. 431 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: From feeling connected to the more connected to the universe 432 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: or the earth or the tree, or leaning against or 433 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: maybe the father that passed away when you were a 434 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: child that you didn't have a relationship with, or the 435 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: uh loved one that you currently have a toxic relationship with. 436 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: You can feel sort of a not imaginary but it 437 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: is in your mind, but a bond uh. And that 438 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: they're not like right there in front of you. Um, 439 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: just new understandings of relationships that may be complicated or 440 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: toxic in your life right exactly like you're you're you're 441 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: seeing them in a different way because of the ego loss. Yeah, yeah, 442 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: I think that's fascinating. Um. And like you said, it 443 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: is a symbolic death of the ego, which is why 444 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: that vomiting is important. Like in theory, I guess you're 445 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: you're vomiting up that ego and then it's go time. Um. 446 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: Apparently you can hallucinate your death. Uh. And like you 447 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: said before, it's not often looked at it's like, hey man, 448 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: this is this is gonna be a great time. Um. 449 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think it's also typically 450 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: not like looked at as like some horror show that 451 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: you're about to undergo. Um, although it can be. But 452 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 1: it's just a profound, uh, emotional and psychological experience. Exactly. 453 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: I've never done it. I mean this is from researching 454 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: it right exactly, which is like we've never been to 455 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: the sun either. But we talked about that. Yeah, and 456 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: that went great. Actually, now that you mentioned it, should 457 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: he use a different example. Uh, let's take another break 458 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about what you kind of teased 459 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: earlier with um uh ahuasca and how it could be 460 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: used to treat addiction or PTSD or other mental illnesses. 461 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: Right after this, Okay, Chuck, So we're back and we're 462 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: talking about using ayahuasca as a tool like taking that 463 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: experience of being outside of yourself have connected to the 464 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: rest of the universe of reevaluating your life in a 465 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: lot of ways to cure mental illness UM. And one 466 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: of the things that it's been I guess some studies 467 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: have actually shown like now this this actually works is 468 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: to treat addiction um, whether it's cigarettes or booze or 469 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: drugs or whatever, that that you can undergo an Iahwaska ceremony. 470 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: People have and have come out on the other side 471 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: like I'm good, I don't need that the cigarettes or 472 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: booze or drugs or whatever. Yeah, And one of the 473 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: one of the suggestions for what's going on with this 474 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: that I saw is that you are actually healing the 475 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: psychic damage that's causing you to self medicate in the 476 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: first place, something probably from your past, and then so 477 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: you with without that need to self medicate, you don't 478 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: have necessarily the desire to drink or smoke cigarettes or 479 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: whatever that you used to, which is a different model 480 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: of addiction that's kind of starting to gain a little 481 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: bit of traction, but is also very controversial because it 482 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: makes it sound like addiction is a choice but you're 483 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: self medicating. You're choosing to do all those drugs and 484 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: like throw your life away because of some psychic trauma. 485 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: But there there does seem to be a camp in 486 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: in medicine that is saying like this actually might have legs. 487 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: It kind of makes a lot of sense. And from 488 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: what I can tell, those ayahuasca studies kind of or 489 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: a checkmark in that view's favor. Yeah, And I think 490 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: that can work in conjunction with the other piece, which 491 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: is removing that ego. Even if it's for whatever how 492 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: many hours that you're undergoing this trip um could just 493 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: simply disrupt that. You know, you often hear about addiction 494 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: being like this sort of cycle, like a cyclical thing um, 495 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: and even just disrupting that cyclical path of that circular 496 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: path um can be enough to sort of get you 497 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: on the off ramp, uh, from using yeah, get you 498 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: on the off ramp, gets you yeah, on the off ramp, Yes, 499 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: that's how you said, right, yeah, and then eventually off 500 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: that off ramp onto a nice chill side street yeah, 501 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: and maybe a nice drive into the country past a 502 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: few cows and then sleep. Yeah. I had a therapist 503 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: one time that talked about getting off of the highway. 504 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: It was a metaphor that actually worked for me. But 505 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: like choosing to get off the highway when certain things 506 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: were happening, and sometimes something that simple is just kind 507 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: of clicks in, like, oh, if I notice something's going on, 508 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm speeding down the highway towards the badness and just 509 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: get on that exit ramp and now I'm in my neighborhood. 510 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: Now I'm hanging out with cows in a nice pecolic pasture. Uh. 511 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: PTSD is another specifically, I think a lot of times 512 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: with military PTSD. UM, they've been, you know, using psychedelics 513 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: more and more in ayahuasca is no stranger to this 514 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: treatment and UM, while it is not a magic pill, 515 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: they are doing some studies on this and it seems 516 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: like uh, and like with all these is tough to 517 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: get funding for these kind of studies sometimes, but it 518 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: does seem like it's gaining more ground in the medical 519 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: community to try out these kind of experiments. Well, they're 520 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: trying like hell to get some of these studies underway 521 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: in the United States. But because ayahuasca is considered a 522 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: Schedule one drug, which is the the worst most nefarious drugs, 523 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: of all, Um, they can't. They just I don't think 524 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: there's been a single study in the US. But fortunately 525 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: they can just go down to South America and do 526 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: the best they can with some of the Ayahuascar centers 527 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: that are down there and the like. Again, there are 528 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: some legitimate Aahuascar centers that take Western tourists for ayahuasca journeys. 529 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: UM and some groups are are going down there to 530 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: partner with those centers to study people, and some of 531 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: the people they're trying to study our PTSD patients, and 532 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: they think that if ayahuasca is helping people with PTSD, 533 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: which it seems to be, it's it's basically negative exposure 534 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: therapy where you're dredging up all of those worst, your 535 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: worst memories that are causing your PTSD, which is bringing 536 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: them to the surface and allowing your awareness to kind 537 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: of shine a light on them and say, Okay, I'm 538 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: going to recategorize these now. And they're not being categorized 539 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: as bad and and frightening as they were before. It's 540 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: not as traumatic as as they were originally categorized. Yeah, 541 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: and and specifically in this study that you're thinking about, 542 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: is uh we're talking about is combat veterans suffering from 543 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: PTSD and it's the Temple of the Way of Light. 544 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: UH in the Amazon has partnered with a group in 545 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: Spain and the UK, the International Center for Ethnobotanical Research 546 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: and Service in Spain and then the Beckley Foundation in 547 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: the UK, and they're treating close to six combat veterans 548 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: a year and it says it's the largest psychedelic study 549 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: UM ever undertaken. So yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah, I 550 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: know that they're using um M d m A to 551 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: treat PTSD as well. And then I can't remember the 552 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: name of that one treatment. But remember you like follow 553 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: a pen with your eyes while you're going over your 554 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: worst memory and it it recategory eyes. Is the memories 555 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: is less scary. I want to remember that one. Yeah, 556 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: I can't remember what we talked about it and but 557 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: that apparently works really well too, so without the vomiting, right, 558 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: that's a big part of it though, my friend just 559 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: bring your own bucket. UH. Problems with ayahuasca. UM it 560 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: is not generally toxic and you would have to take 561 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: so much ayahuasca sort of like when we were talking 562 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: about marijuana, like is there even a lethal dose? Can 563 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: you even say that because the lethal dose apparently for 564 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: ayahuasca is twenty times what you had normally taken a 565 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: typical ceremony. Uh, as the grabster put it, or uh 566 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: he might have been quoting someone, but it's uh, could 567 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: could anyone even choke this much of that down? Right? Probably? Not? 568 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: Is that even possible? But there have been I mean, 569 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: there have been some deaths that have been related to ayahuasca, 570 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: and and when you dig a little deeper, you find like, oh, 571 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't actually the ayahuasca directly that pause this, but 572 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: the people would not have died had they not been 573 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: in South America on the ayahuasca journey, right. Yeah, There's 574 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: this one guy who um who died in I believe 575 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen. He was an American You no, he's British, 576 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. And his name was Henry Miller. And he 577 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: died on the way to the hospital because he'd gone 578 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: kind of non responsive. And the Iowa Squeros Iowa Iowa square, Yeah, 579 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 1: I said it, um that took him to the hospital, 580 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: had him on a motorcycle. He fell off the motorcycle 581 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: and died of a head injury on the way to 582 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: the hospital. So it wasn't the ayahuasca that killed him, 583 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: but he wouldn't have been on the motorcycle in the 584 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: first place had he not been on this ayahuasca trip. 585 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: So the shorthand and the headlines is a man dies 586 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: from ayahuasca. Yeah, there have been some other cases where 587 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: like people would be having a bad trip and maybe 588 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: attack someone else and that would lead to violence or 589 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: death or just this year in two thousand eighteen in Peru, 590 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: um an eight one year old shaman woman was shot 591 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: and killed. Uh, and then a Canadian man was murdered 592 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 1: for revenge for that killing. But supposedly this had nothing 593 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: to do with like being under the influence, but it 594 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: was some sort of dispute that happened during this this 595 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: whole conflict. Yeah, the woman was named Olivia Arevalo and 596 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: she was the spiritual mother of Peru's second largest indigenous tribe, 597 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: the Shapebo Canibo. And this guy, this Canadian guy named 598 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 1: Sebastian Woodruff, shot and killed her allegedly because um her 599 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: son owed him money. He was there to learn ayahuasca, 600 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: and I guess he didn't feel like he'd gotten his 601 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: money's worth, so he killed her. He killed this this 602 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: woman the shaman, the spiritual leader of the second largest 603 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: tribe in in Peru, and he was Canadian. Yes, yeah, 604 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: I know. It was surprising, not a very cana anything 605 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: to do, No, it really wasn't. But the the whole 606 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: thing really revealed the problems that that have been developing 607 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: from this ayahuasca tourism. First, this guy was down there 608 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: and wanted to learn about ayahuasca so we could take 609 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: it back to Canada and appropriate this culture. There's problem one. Two. 610 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: He didn't get his money's worth, so he shot and 611 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,720 Speaker 1: killed the woman who was supposed to be teaching him. 612 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: It's a big problem as well. But then also between 613 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: the Iowa squeros and the practitioners who are are hosting 614 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: these tourists, and then the governments of the countries that 615 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: they're hosting them in. There's tensions there as well, because 616 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: this village said, there's police everywhere, the police never come here, 617 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: but then a Canadian man goes missing, and now our 618 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 1: village is overrun with with police, like, what's the what's 619 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: going on here? Um? So there's there's a lot of 620 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: tension that's being There's a lot of simmering tension that's 621 00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: being heated by this, this Western ayahuasca tour is um 622 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: and um. It's kind of largely in part because it's unregulated, 623 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: but also because a lot of people going down there 624 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 1: don't have respect for what they're doing. And then also 625 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the people who are popping up as 626 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: Iowa squaros don't have any respect for what they're doing either. 627 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: So the the respect that's been given to this, this 628 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 1: tradition for so many hundreds or thousands of years being lost, 629 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: and then on top of that, the ayahuasca that they're 630 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: they're drinking is so wildly more potent than what traditionally 631 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: was all those hundreds of thousands of years, you know, 632 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: the Jesuits version of ayahuasca um. That's really kind of 633 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: I think fueling this kind of recklessness that's that's becoming 634 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: part and parcel with ayahuasca used down in South America. Yeah, 635 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: because some of these areas are are poor, and so 636 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 1: all of a sudden it becomes a hip thing for 637 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: UH Westerners with money to come down there with cold 638 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: hard cash. And then, like you said, they're appropriating their culture. 639 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: So that's one strike, But then to appeal to these people, 640 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're not as like, you know, 641 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: we don't want to freak people out maybe by being 642 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: too traditional, so we're gonna westernize our own methods a bit. 643 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,479 Speaker 1: So and let's say let's get a website going uh, 644 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: and then we'll be the go to for when they 645 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: come down here. So then they're undermining their own culture. Um, 646 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: and it's just sort of becoming a big mess. It 647 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: sounds like yeah, and again I think like if you're 648 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: going down there, like whether you're Western or um Asian 649 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: or whoever you are, if you're going down for a 650 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: vision quest, that's not that's not what's being you know, 651 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: brought out as as the fault. The fault is if 652 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: you're if you're going down there because it's hip or 653 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: because you just want to party or because a friend 654 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: did it, um, and you're not you're not being respectful 655 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: of it. Then that's where the the issue seems to 656 00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: be arising from ayahuasca anything else you know. Oh yeah, 657 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: there is one thing that we didn't cover, um that 658 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: that can happen because the copy vine is a m 659 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: AO inhibitor. There's a lot of other things um that 660 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: can actually kill you that are pretty normal, like interactions 661 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: you can have drug interactions with things as normal as chocolate, 662 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: because the UM monoamine oxidase typically breaks these things down. Uh. 663 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: And if it's being inhibited so that the ayahuasca can 664 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: work its effects. You if you eat chocolate, your toast. 665 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: And one of the other things that UM that it 666 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: can do is so the mono the m A O 667 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: ies prevent your serotonin from being taken up. And that's 668 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: how d M t acts on the brain. It goes 669 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: into where serotonin receptors normally fit and just says, let's party, right. UM. 670 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: So with all this extra serotonin floating around, if you 671 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: also happen to be on an S s r I 672 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: serotonin reuptake inhibitor, UH, you've got too much serotonin. You 673 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: can go into what's called serotonin shock. This is where 674 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: the diarrhea comes in. That's one of the um the 675 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: symptoms of serotonin shock, but that's one of the mild symptoms. 676 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: You can also um have seizures. You your heart can 677 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: also stop, and you can die from having too much 678 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: serotonin flooding your brain. So that's that is a direct 679 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: way you can die from ayahuasca. But it's not from 680 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: the hallucinogen. UH. The aspect of it. It's from the 681 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: m A O. I. So when they're when they show 682 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: up from uh, the Silicon Valley, and they say they're translating, 683 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, bro, he wants to know if 684 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: you've got anything, if you've had anything in your body. 685 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: And then you're like, no, just mine my Selexa and 686 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: a wolf down at Toblaron on the way way over. 687 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: I'm good, let's do this. Yeah, let's skip the ceremony. 688 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: Just let me drink that stuff, right you just yeah, 689 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: you mash the shaman's face out of your way, like, 690 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: get out of here. Just give me that. I know. 691 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: I know why we haven't been selling tickets in Seattle 692 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: so much. Oh no, Seattle we love. That's not Silicon Valley. 693 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. I love San Francisco to we love. 694 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: We love all people. We love all of you, everybody. 695 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: We love all potential ticket buyers are egos are are 696 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: down in the pits. Uh. If you want to know 697 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: more about ayahuasca, man, do some research. Uh there's a 698 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: lot of it out there, so do it. Um. And 699 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: since I said that, it's time for listener mail. Yeah, 700 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this short and sweet, but we did 701 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: get an answer to something. Uh remember in the fire 702 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: Twuks episode you could not remember that game and we 703 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: got everything from sim City to uh civilization. Yeah, none 704 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: of them were right. But our friend, our new pal, 705 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: Mike man Goba, Mike says this, guys that just listened 706 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: to the fire Twalks episode and also shout out to 707 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: two things. All the people who wrote in and spelled 708 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: it fire twalks yeah, and then all the firefighters. We 709 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: went from a lot of firefighters and they all, every 710 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: single one of them said yep, it's chili. Josh did 711 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: not overstate the chili. Yeah. And they're all very nice 712 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: and said, you guys got most of this right. Um, 713 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: anytime it's something really specific like that, we're gonna get 714 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,399 Speaker 1: some stuff wrong. But they were like, you guys did 715 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: a good job. And one of them even had a 716 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: joke that said, if you're at a party, how do 717 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: you know if there's a firefighter there? And the answer is, oh, 718 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: don't worry, they'll tell you that was from a firefighter. 719 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: So I guess they have a simple tamer about it. 720 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: Uh So, anyway, guys listening to the fire TALKX episode, 721 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: and he talked about the old game that burns buildings 722 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: to the ground if you don't have a fire station. 723 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: And that game is called Pharaoh, Yes, Pharaoh, yep h 724 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: a r a o h yep. You're building an Egyptian 725 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: civilisation yea. And he said it's an expansion game. The 726 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: expansion game is called Cleopatra, and it was one of 727 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: my favorite games, which I still play today. Keep up 728 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: the chatter, Mike, man go thanks a lot, Mike. That's 729 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: exactly what it was, and never in a million years 730 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: would have remembered that that it wasn't beating like gos 731 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: uh oh is that what we're calling him? Yeah, all right, 732 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: thanks a lot. Goes. Well, if you want to be 733 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: like Gobs and rescue us by reminding me of something 734 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, or just correcting my syntax, 735 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: you can get in touch with us. We're all over social. 736 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: You can find those links at stuff you should Know 737 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: dot com and you can just send us an email, 738 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: wrap it up, speck it on the bottom, and send 739 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: it off to stuff podcast All stuff works dot com 740 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 741 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: it how stuff Works dot com