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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sam.

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Speaker 2: This is John, your og Okay storytime podcast host, and

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Speaker 2: we got.

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Speaker 1: Some delicious, juicy stories coming up.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to hear that deliciousness, you know,

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Speaker 2: just stick around for a two minute break with a

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: My husband refused to play Barbie Dolls with our son.

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Speaker 2: That's really uncool, man, I should probably do that.

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Speaker 3: And there is a trigger warning for emotional abuse. Ohp says.

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Speaker 3: This is my first time posting on Reddit, and I

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Speaker 3: need advice regarding a situation that feels weird. My thirty

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Speaker 3: three female little one five male has been wanting to

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Speaker 3: buy Barbie's and a baby doll for the last few weeks.

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Speaker 3: The daycare he goes to before and after school has

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Speaker 3: these things and he enjoys playing with them and wanted

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Speaker 3: some of his own. I'm of the belief that there's

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong with boys playing with stereotypically a girly toys,

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Speaker 3: just like there's nothing wrong with girls playing with stereotypically

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Speaker 3: boy toys such as hot wheels. I thought my husband

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Speaker 3: forty three mail and I were on the same page

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Speaker 3: about this. By the way, this comes from Worry Bird

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Speaker 3: Sheet and if you want to submit your own stories.

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Speaker 3: Go to the r slash Okay, story time, separate it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sophia.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel, and.

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Speaker 4: Daniel would you like to introduce yourself?

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Speaker 5: Yes, sure, Daniel, don't be scared to project here cool.

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Speaker 2: My name's Daniel. I'm a psychotherapist. I live in Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles and my focus is on attachment repair. I work

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Speaker 2: a lot with adolescents and I see people in private practice.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a big student of Buddhist psychology.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: And he's here to give some advice, advice, advise me,

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Speaker 3: just talk about some feedback and we're gonna get.

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Speaker 4: Into the story.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday, we finally got the chance to get to the

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Speaker 3: store so he could get what he wanted, and our

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Speaker 3: little one was ecstatic. He used his own chore money

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Speaker 3: to get a Barbie car when she was most excited

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Speaker 3: about a boy Barbie and a girl Barbie. This was

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Speaker 3: great and I was very involved in helping him pick

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Speaker 3: them out. Dad, however, was very much not despite my

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Speaker 3: trying to include him. He hung back, didn't engage at all,

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Speaker 3: and when others came into the aisle, he would leave entirely.

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Speaker 3: He was acting like he was embarrassed to be seen

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Speaker 3: picking out these items.

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Speaker 4: They're just dolls.

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Speaker 3: On our way out of the store, I told him,

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Speaker 3: you know, people might not even assume right away that

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Speaker 3: he's even buying them for himself. What if we were

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Speaker 3: buying stuff for a little girl's birthday or something. I

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Speaker 3: said this to try and figure out how he was

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Speaker 3: feeling and where his head was at. He's very much

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Speaker 3: someone who feels like people are watching and judging him

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Speaker 3: at all times when he's out in public. He didn't

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Speaker 3: really respond to the question, just got in and we

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Speaker 3: went home. After the store. Everything seemed fine. Dad was

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Speaker 3: playing with our five year old and his cars. Then

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Speaker 3: our son brought the baby doll over and tried to

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Speaker 3: engage my husband with it. Habi pulled back from play

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Speaker 3: and told him no, he didn't want to play, and

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Speaker 3: playtime was over. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he just needed a break. Habby as a very

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Speaker 3: low playtime meter as it is, and has admitted that

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Speaker 3: his patience when it comes to our son is something

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Speaker 3: he needs to work on. I assumed he'd reached his

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Speaker 3: limit as far as playing in general. When ope, he's

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Speaker 3: giving him a lot of grace She's like, maybe could

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Speaker 3: be this. Yeah, that's fine. Children could be a lot.

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Speaker 3: I totally get it. Then last night I was getting

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Speaker 3: our little one ready for bed, and because using the

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Speaker 3: baby doll to get him down was working so well.

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Speaker 4: Show your baby how good you brush your teeth? We

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Speaker 4: were on a roll.

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Speaker 3: Dad came in for good night kisses and our son

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Speaker 3: usually doesn't let him leave unless he's gotten at least three,

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Speaker 3: so I was trying to help dad by moving things along.

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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, son, time for dad to go.

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Speaker 3: Show your baby doll. How good you say good night

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Speaker 3: to daddy?

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Speaker 4: And he did.

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Speaker 3: Then Dad turned to leave and said good night son.

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Speaker 3: Our son said, Dad, say good night to my baby,

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Speaker 3: and Hubby paused and very firmly said good night son

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Speaker 3: and then left.

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Speaker 4: Do you have a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Like parents that you know or have you ever had

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Speaker 3: this experience where the parents are like, we don't want

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Speaker 3: you know we have these very gender defined roles.

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Speaker 2: I think people struggle with it for sure. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is the first time I'm hearing this story, right,

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Speaker 2: I would say, what a missed opportunity to show up

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Speaker 2: and connect with your child and to help your child

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Speaker 2: understand and explore the world and thinking about how the

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Speaker 2: father must have such a fragile sense of his own masculinity. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and what an epic bummer. Yeah to like miss this opportunity,

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Speaker 2: And it's cool that maybe the family could talk about

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Speaker 2: it and explore it and come to understand that if

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Speaker 2: you're not supporting your child in discovering the world with them,

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Speaker 2: they'll go to other people. You have a real precious

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Speaker 2: opportunity to engage, not in the way that necessarily you

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Speaker 2: always want to, but in helping the child explore and

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Speaker 2: discover what has meaning to them sously.

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Speaker 3: Because he's a parent, So it's like, you have this

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Speaker 3: opportunity to be like, you have a baby, You're my baby.

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Speaker 2: Right, this is your child like dog getting the games.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I asked him after the fact, does his having

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Speaker 3: barbies and a baby doll bother you or something? Because

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Speaker 3: you completely ignored him when he asked you to say

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Speaker 3: good night to his baby and you were completely unengaged

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Speaker 3: at the store. He said, it doesn't bother me, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to interact with it. I said, well,

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Speaker 3: you say goodnight to his other guys, stuffed animals and

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Why is it.

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Speaker 3: Different, and he replied, actually, I don't say good night

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Speaker 3: to stuffed animals anymore, which I'm not even sure is true,

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Speaker 3: because I witnessed him doing so in the last week.

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Speaker 3: He chose today He's like, I stopped tonight.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 3: Let me be honest with you. Okay, I don't Oh,

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Speaker 3: this is him. I don't give a rat's rear. And

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Speaker 3: what my son plays with, if it's something he enjoys,

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Speaker 3: then that's all I need to know. My son seems

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Speaker 3: most interested in having little people. He can drive around

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Speaker 3: in a car and with the baby. He says he

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Speaker 3: gets to pretend to be daddy.

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Speaker 4: Which was so sweet.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean that's what I was kind of

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Speaker 3: what I was saying of, like, he sees himself as like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I get to be daddy with the baby and daddy.

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Speaker 2: You know, he's acting like a caregiver, and to have

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Speaker 2: it so rebuked by his father is such a missed opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I honestly thought my husband was of the same mind.

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Speaker 3: So I'm blown away a little by this attitude because

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Speaker 3: gender norms and our beliefs surrounding them are something we've

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Speaker 3: talked about prior to having kids. Am I crazy for

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Speaker 3: feeling like this is a weird thing to be playing

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Speaker 3: perfectly fine with your child when it's cars and then

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Speaker 3: the second the baby doll comes out you disengage entirely.

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Speaker 3: For context, we've been together for ten years, and as stated,

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Speaker 3: this is something we've talked about before we had a child.

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Speaker 3: And there are some comments, but do you have any

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Speaker 3: more thoughts about this?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it. Yeah, it's just kind of

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Speaker 2: what we said, Like, I'm so I would be so curious,

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Speaker 2: like again, trying to view this as a psychotherapist, I'd

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Speaker 2: be really curious about this father's sense of gender and

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Speaker 2: masculinity and why he feels so threatened.

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Speaker 4: And what maybe like what his childhood father and his child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these things are intern transgenerational. But really

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Speaker 2: also just when your son or your daughter is bidding

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Speaker 2: for a connection, meet that connection, to rebuke it and

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Speaker 2: shut it down. The message isn't that dolls are bad.

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Speaker 2: Connecting is bad.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it seems also like OPI kind of mentioned

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Speaker 3: briefly that he was already having trouble connecting with Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like that's so painful.

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Speaker 3: It's even yeah, even further, you know, further creating this

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Speaker 3: this divide.

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Speaker 2: Between totally yeah, I mean it sucks, yeah, totally not great.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So my advice for this statu is, like, maybe we

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Speaker 3: should connect with let's focus not on the baby doll

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Speaker 3: and whether or not it's gendered, but like, let's focus

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Speaker 3: on spending time with your son.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: But there are some comments. Comment one says, I'd be

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Speaker 3: more long term worried that your husband isn't prepared to

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Speaker 3: unconditionally love your child no matter what choices he makes.

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Speaker 3: Trying to control what he plays with by designating them

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Speaker 3: as appropriate for his gender is just the tip of

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Speaker 3: the iceberg. You may have talked about it, but either

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Speaker 3: he may have told you what you wanted to hear,

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Speaker 3: or he was over confident that it wouldn't happen to him.

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Speaker 3: Comment two says, yeah, that's super weird. Your husband acting

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Speaker 3: like touching a barbie will provoke his man card or something.

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Speaker 3: Your kid's just playing and learning how to nurture, literally

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Speaker 3: pretending to be a dad. That's awesome, not something to

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Speaker 3: shut down. He really needs to unpack why a doll

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Speaker 3: makes him so uncomfortable, because that's his issue, not your son's.

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Speaker 3: Common three says, You're not crazy at all. Your husband's

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Speaker 3: reaction is definitely rooted in outdated gender norms, and it's

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Speaker 3: okay to feel weird about that. Your son wanting a

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Speaker 3: doll and Barbie's is completely normal. It shows empathy, imagination,

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Speaker 3: and creativity. The fact that he said he gets to

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Speaker 3: pretend to be daddy is actually really sweet and shows

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Speaker 3: healthy emotional development, and Opie responds, this also shows that

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Speaker 3: the kid looks up to his dad so much so

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Speaker 3: that he sees him as a role model and wants

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Speaker 3: to emulate him. Imitation is the highest form of flattery

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Speaker 3: and all that the dad should be touched that his

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Speaker 3: son sees him in a nurturing and loving manner. I

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Speaker 3: actually don't think this is from Opie, but responding to

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Speaker 3: op so, Op's husband needs to knock off his behavior

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Speaker 3: and start showing acceptance so his son can emulate only

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Speaker 3: good traits, and common Force says, I'm going to go

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Speaker 3: a step further than some of the other commoners. I

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Speaker 3: think your son playing family with his dolls and trying

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Speaker 3: to engage his dad with them is modeling behavior he

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Speaker 3: wants to see and is not seeing.

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Speaker 4: Ooh deep deep, It's like dad, I just want your love.

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Speaker 2: Look at me loving this baby totally.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, tell his dad to put that in his pipe

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Speaker 3: and smoke it. There's nothing girly about his emphasis on

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Speaker 3: being the daddy and enjoying driving the dolls around. That

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Speaker 3: sounds boyish to me. Also sounds nurturing and helpful, which

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Speaker 3: should be gender neutral. If I were in your shoes,

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Speaker 3: I'd get him some male action figures too, to see

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Speaker 3: if that helps keep the peace while Hubs gets counseling.

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Speaker 3: The fact is, no amount of disapproval from Hubs or

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Speaker 3: anyone else will force a gay or trans kid to

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Speaker 3: magically become Otherwise, it'll just damage that kid. People are

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Speaker 3: born that way and there is an update. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of those commentaries were touching

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Speaker 3: on what we said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, what's the.

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Speaker 4: Oh, well we're gonna get into so what's gonna happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what will happen next?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just unfortunate, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, if if we're talking about this as a psychotherapist

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Speaker 2: and the family was here, there would be a lot

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Speaker 2: that we could explore between the husband and the wife

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Speaker 2: and the relationship with the child and who wanted the child,

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Speaker 2: and what does it mean to be a father? What

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Speaker 2: does it mean to have a son? All these things,

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Speaker 2: But it seems like a very reactive and a very

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Speaker 2: strong yes response.

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Speaker 3: And I mean am somewhat confused about because Op said multiple.

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Speaker 4: Times that he agreed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd be curious what that means.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So like I'm wondering what exactly he thought he

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Speaker 3: was agreeing to.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, what does agreement mean?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And if like that one commenter said, if you just

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Speaker 3: didn't think it would happen to him, But yeah, you

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Speaker 3: can't really control what kids want to play with.

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Speaker 2: They just kind of point you can, right, yes, forcefully,

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Speaker 2: you can really restrict their exploration, and that can affect

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Speaker 2: the way they discover meaning, and it can affect the

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Speaker 2: way they choose relationships, and then ultimately it affects their

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Speaker 2: interesting I mean back to the parents and sharing their life.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, go for it, bro, But in the end,

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Speaker 2: all you're doing is really damaging that child's relationship to himself, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then relationship with the world.

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Speaker 3: And I'm also wondering because I grew up with a brother,

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Speaker 3: as we were talking about, and I mean I did

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Speaker 3: play with a lot of like dolls and Littlest Pet

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Speaker 3: shops and all of that stuff. Yeah, but my brother

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Speaker 3: also had like legos and cars and dinosaurs and stuff,

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Speaker 3: so I was also playing with those things.

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Speaker 2: Were just playing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just playing.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm kind of wondering if they have another

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Speaker 3: child and that child is a girl.

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Speaker 4: You know, are the kids in the cars play with

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Speaker 4: each other?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just wondering about that. But there is an update. Okay,

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Speaker 4: here we go, which now we'll get into.

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Speaker 3: Okay, my husband and I spoke some more this morning.

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Speaker 3: As I noticed him doing and again our son asking

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Speaker 3: him to play with his new toys and my husband

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Speaker 3: ignoring him completely, I asked him to step into our

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Speaker 3: room for a bit so we could have the conversation

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Speaker 3: away from our son. I started by asking him what

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Speaker 3: specifically he doesn't like about playing with the toys our

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Speaker 3: son purchased yesterday. He said that he wanted to make

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Speaker 3: sure that our son bought them because he wanted to

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Speaker 3: and not because it's making other people happy. Feels a

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Speaker 3: little hypocritical, This is weird.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Basically, he insinuated that myself or some other outside influence

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Speaker 3: convinced him that he wanted the toys when he might

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Speaker 3: not have otherwise. This is not the case. I told him,

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Speaker 3: if our son didn't want the toys, then he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have been asking for them for the last three weeks.

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Speaker 3: Our son is very strong willed and knows what he

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Speaker 3: does and does not like, and very rarely does things

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Speaker 3: just because it would make someone else happy.

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Speaker 4: He's five.

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Speaker 5: Cool.

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Speaker 3: I reminded him of all of this. But there is

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Speaker 3: a little bit left to this story. Any final thoughts

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Speaker 3: on this story?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I like this kid.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he knows what I feel like he's stunnard like

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Speaker 3: his dad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean he's also like, you know, he's standing on

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Speaker 2: his business, like he knows what he wants, he's going

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Speaker 2: to keep going. I think that's right.

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Speaker 4: And I feel like when you're like, I've babysat a

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Speaker 4: lot of kids.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I kind of know like kids from that

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Speaker 3: end of the thing, and I feel like five years old,

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Speaker 3: you you know a little bit about who, you.

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Speaker 4: Know what you like? Yes, of course, and you know

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Speaker 4: pretty strong willed at five.

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Speaker 2: I mean, can I share something? So from the attachment perspective,

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Speaker 2: the language we use is an internal working model, and

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Speaker 2: your internal working model is developed between the ages of

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Speaker 2: zero to three and then in late childhood three to five. Actually,

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Speaker 2: up until adolescence is when that internal model starts to

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Speaker 2: meet with the world and you're somewhat baked in. So

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Speaker 2: when you're dealing with a five year old, they're responding

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Speaker 2: to the matrix of care they receive zero to three,

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Speaker 2: and the parents are actually seeing, oh, this is a

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Speaker 2: care I gave. This is what I'm getting back. So

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Speaker 2: they're often reflective of one another's.

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Speaker 3: So it's really interesting that they're parenting. He's like, what

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Speaker 3: caused this?

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Speaker 2: It's like, you guys might have been you guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, good job, Yeah totally yeah, right, you did

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Speaker 3: something good.

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Speaker 2: You built confidence.

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Speaker 4: In the end, he.

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Speaker 3: Admitted that this is something he needs to work on

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Speaker 3: some more and find a middle ground engaging even though

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Speaker 3: dolls and barbies are not something he enjoys playing with.

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Speaker 3: I reminded him that he's an adult and that play

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Speaker 3: is intended to cater to the child for a reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I like that. She's like, it's not really about whether

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Speaker 3: or not you want to play. No, for now, that's

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Speaker 3: all the update I got. But I did touch on

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Speaker 3: the fact that if his stone walling continued, then we

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Speaker 3: would have.

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Speaker 4: To figure out a different living situation.

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Speaker 3: Because it wasn't healthy for our son to be continually

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Speaker 3: subjected to that. He indicated that he understood that, and

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Speaker 3: as of right now is playing Barbies with our son. Yay,

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Speaker 3: our son made him be the girl Barbie. But at

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Speaker 3: least it's better than it was, and our son is

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Speaker 3: feeling that connection again, which is what really matters.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 3: I don't think the son did that intentionally at all.

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Speaker 2: That's cool. I do think that it worked out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's so rad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, forcing the dad to you know, step outside of

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Speaker 3: his comfort zone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so curious what the dad's experience became, what

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Speaker 2: we learn about himself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because I think that it could be really positive.

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Speaker 3: I think I always loved I think from just like

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Speaker 3: an acting improv standpoint, I loved growing up building those

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Speaker 3: worlds and I still, you know, when I babysat kids,

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Speaker 3: I still loved creating those worlds with them. So I

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Speaker 3: think when you really allow yourself to just be free

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Speaker 3: and enjoy that.

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Speaker 2: Play, that's right.

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Speaker 4: It's really fun.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Kids live in a state of radical amazement, and

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Speaker 2: it's so fun to participate in that really liberating. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: but that was the end of that story.

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Speaker 4: Are we doing the questions now?

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Speaker 5: We can do the questions now. But I know a

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Speaker 5: lot of people are coming in and tuning in and

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Speaker 5: they're asking.

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Speaker 1: Who you are?

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Speaker 3: You are you? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, please introduce yourself again.

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Speaker 2: You okay. My name is Danielihern. I'm a psychotherapist in

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles. I work with attachment psychology. That's my focus,

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Speaker 2: and I have a strong lean towards Buddhist psychology and

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Speaker 2: how these things intertwine. I work a lot with adolescents,

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Speaker 2: and I work in acute treatment with adolescents, so kids

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Speaker 2: that are struggling, and then I work in private practice.

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Speaker 2: Is that a good answer that it's perfet.

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Speaker 1: Answer to answer? And you appreciate you being here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But we have some questions from our okay, fam okay.

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Speaker 3: Marnas says, I, thirty five male, grew up with a

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Speaker 3: very strict father, and it's made me constantly afraid of

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Speaker 3: doing something wrong. Now that I'm starting a new job,

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Speaker 3: that fear shows up all the time. I overthink everything

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Speaker 3: and feel like I'm too slow or disappointing people. I've

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Speaker 3: tried exercising and doing things I enjoy, but when it's

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Speaker 3: time to focus on important tasks like work, I zone

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Speaker 3: out and start feeling like I'm doing everything wrong. I

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Speaker 3: end up distracting myself instead of finishing what needs to

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Speaker 3: be done. Please help me. I can't afford professional help

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Speaker 3: right now. My question is how can I stop feeling

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Speaker 3: this way and finally trust myself more?

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Speaker 2: And do you have any Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And I you know if you need to read it again?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's okay. I was really I'm really

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Speaker 2: thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So fundamentally, this is a good example of an attachment response.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: If in early childhood we learn that love and attention

399
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Speaker 2: is performance driven, right, it's conditional. If I do this,

400
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Speaker 2: I'll receive love, I'll receive attention. We internalize that, and

401
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,199
Speaker 2: then later in life, in our relationships or in our work,

402
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Speaker 2: we can start to view things that happen as threats.

403
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,960
Speaker 2: Threats store our sense of self, threatstore our success, and

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Speaker 2: it can shut us down. Right. We can have different responses.

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Speaker 2: We can flee or fight or fond, or we can

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Speaker 2: kind of use any of the efforts to deal with that. Stress, right.

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Speaker 2: So what I would not advise, but I would consider

408
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Speaker 2: is for this person to really take a pause before

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Speaker 2: anything that you're doing at work or maybe after, and evaluate,

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Speaker 2: am I responding from the present moment or am I

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Speaker 2: responding to this old story that if I do something wrong,

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Speaker 2: I'll be rebuked or abandoned. And then after you do

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Speaker 2: any task, really acknowledge out loud, like oh I did

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Speaker 2: this thing, and celebrate your accomplishments. Moreover, I would find

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Speaker 2: people that you trust, maybe colleagues or friends, to talk

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Speaker 2: about that, like, Hey, I really struggle with feeling that

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Speaker 2: if I don't do this right, I'm going to fail.

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Speaker 2: And I don't even know where that feeling comes from

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Speaker 2: her maybe it comes from childhood. By just externalizing that

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Speaker 2: and building relationships with people, the term we use is coregulate.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you and I met a little while ago,

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Speaker 2: we didn't know each other, and then we kind of

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00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 2: got in a groove right, and we started to have

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Speaker 2: this experience of being in harmony together. It's one of

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Speaker 2: the human beings superpowers. So if you can take that

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Speaker 2: stress and find a way to tap into your friends

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Speaker 2: or colleagues and share it and coregulate it. I think

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Speaker 2: you're going to be okay. And I think also it's

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Speaker 2: really beautiful that you reached out because that is an

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Speaker 2: indication of your willingness to grow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great answer.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's like he does this for a living.

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Speaker 4: Is your job?

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Speaker 3: Question two from Nina Nilsen. Nina Nilsen says, me and

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Speaker 3: my best friend, both twenty nine female of sixteen years,

437
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 3: are basically codependent. I'm there almost every day helping her

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Speaker 3: with her son, my godson around seven.

439
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 4: Or we're in group activities together or with her family.

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Speaker 3: I spend Christmas there and everything, and I have a

441
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Speaker 3: hard time feeling like I deserve a space in a

442
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 3: group due to having to fight for my spot in

443
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Speaker 3: my family's growing up. My parents aren't together and I

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Speaker 3: had evil stepparents on both sides.

445
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 4: My best friend is.

446
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 3: Dating someone new, and while we have no romantic feelings,

447
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 3: her being in a relationship does change things, things such

448
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 3: as who does what in all of our lives, but

449
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 3: especially my godson's life. I go to parent teacher conferences

450
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 3: and doctor's appointments and everything where I can be helpful

451
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 3: or if he or his parents want me to go

452
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 3: his father as fifty fifty custody and they co parent

453
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 3: very well and we are all close friends. I am

454
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 3: terrified of no longer having the space in my godson's

455
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 3: family and being replaced by someone new. I worry that

456
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 3: a new partner would dislike how active in their everyday

457
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 3: life I am.

458
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 4: And if I would even be able to speak.

459
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 3: My opinion on what I think regarding my godson, because

460
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 3: as much as we all joke that he's my child too,

461
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 3: he isn't, not legally and not as any kind of parent,

462
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: even stepparents. Would be not rational thinking I would lose

463
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: this family I found, But my parents have both chosen

464
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 3: new people over me. They even sat quietly while I

465
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 3: was thrown out because the step parent demanded more in

466
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 3: rent than I could possibly pay them. I was eighteen,

467
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 3: but both parents were still legally responsible for my cost

468
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: of living. My best friend came to pick me up

469
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 3: and I lived there for a bit while our mothers

470
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 3: talked and sorted things out as they were becoming friends

471
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 3: thanks to us. My friend and I are very open

472
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,640
Speaker 3: with communicating, and their new date seems like a really

473
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 3: good person. I've met them once so far, and I

474
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: wish I could stop having this extreme reaction when I

475
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 3: truly am happy for them, and the more people that

476
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 3: love and care for my godson the better. My question is,

477
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 3: how can someone work on whatever this is, codependence, anxious attachment.

478
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 3: I am in talk therapy mostly just as a check

479
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 3: in while waiting for the psychiatrist to have time with

480
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: me twice a month. But I realize this needs more

481
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 3: work than that, so that I don't ruin my friendships

482
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 3: now or in the future. Thank you for taking the

483
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 3: time for us, and okay, fam good job. Man.

484
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 2: It's like I can feel that so much and so deeply,

485
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 2: and without knowing too much more just knowing what we know.

486
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: It does sound like an anxious attachment response. Then, in

487
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 2: the quantity of information right that we're getting, I really

488
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 2: I want you to understand exactly what I'm saying. I

489
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 2: need to tell you all this information. And what's so

490
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: interesting about attachment I think Carly and I were talking

491
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: about neuroscience is in early childhood, going back to that

492
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 2: internal working model, the brain develops a certain way. So

493
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: when we start to feel that anxiety and we're sharing

494
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: a lot of information, it's a sign that we're actually

495
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 2: in draft right, we feel like if I don't share

496
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: everything with you, you're going to leave me. And then

497
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 2: this person so clearly explained that feeling of being left.

498
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: What I would do about it? You know? I guess

499
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: the other thing I'm curious about is in talk therapy.

500
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 2: Do you notice that talk therapy helps or do you

501
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: leave feeling actually more spun out right? Because sometimes talking

502
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: won't really help if you have this, Yeah, if you

503
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 2: have so much anxiety, yeah, you're just kind of caught

504
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: in this experience of sharing and sharing and sharing. And

505
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 2: the language that we use is like there's a self

506
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 2: and there's an other, And when I lose myself with

507
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 2: my anxiety, I collapse into other and it's so painful

508
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 2: because I can't find the me in it. What I

509
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: would advise, choosing my words carefully is to pause and

510
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 2: actually notice how valuable you are and check the evidence

511
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 2: to offer yourself a lot of compassion. Sounds like you've

512
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,959
Speaker 2: been through a lot in early childhood. Understand that you

513
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: do have a good friendship and you are so invaluable

514
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: to this God's son, and find a way to pause

515
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: and reflect, notice that you're okay in this moment. You

516
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: can actually kind of visualize the person that you want

517
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: to be now rather than feeling trapped by the version

518
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: you have of this older version of yourself. And don't

519
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: be afraid to go out and explore other relationships. I mean,

520
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: you found one. You sound like a rad person. I'm

521
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: sure the more you go out and explore, the more

522
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: you can kind of strengthen your social network and help

523
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 2: yourself feel okay. But this is such a good example

524
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: of how that anxiety can feel so overwhelming. Yeah, and

525
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: you can collapse.

526
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, another great answer.

527
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: Is that a good answer?

528
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 5: No, Yeah, amazing answer. A lot of people are saying

529
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 5: we're being seen right now. Kitin literally just said he's

530
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 5: going to make me cry.

531
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 4: At the gym.

532
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 3: And you have that like one very close friendship that

533
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: you're codependent on.

534
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 2: I think it can be like hard to Oh my god,

535
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: it's so terrorizing, like what if I lose this person,

536
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: I'm going to end. My world's going to end. And

537
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: that's a really young, young part, right, that's a zero

538
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: to three part. So always, oh my god, always so

539
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: much compassion for yourself. You know a big thing about attachment.

540
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: It's bandied around a lot. People throw the language around.

541
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: I'm anxious, So I'm dismissive. But these are strategies to survive,

542
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: Like you needed to develop them to survive to make

543
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: it through childhood. And it's so cool that we live

544
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,239
Speaker 2: in a time now where you can repair those and

545
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: make improvements. But it sounds like you're well on.

546
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 3: Your Yeah, And we have a third question. I think

547
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: this might be the final question from Caitlin von Kampen,

548
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: who also might be here. Kaitlin says, after being in

549
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: a relationship for four years with a self absorbed person

550
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: and not wanting to fall victim to that again, what

551
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 3: are the biggest red flags to look out for in

552
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: a partner? So? I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

553
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: That's not quite focused on childhood.

554
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: I mean this is when I hear red flags the

555
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: thing we're talking about dating, jait Okay, cool, here's some

556
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 2: dating feedback. When you go on a date. This is

557
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: for literally everyone on earth. Don't worry about if they

558
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: like you. Take that off the menu. Really focus in

559
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 2: your body. Do I feel safe around this person? Do

560
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: I feel like I can be myself around this person?

561
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 2: So much of our culture puts the pressure on getting

562
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: people to like you and click the like button. And

563
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: appreciate you that you lose yourself and then you find

564
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: yourself vulnerable to people that have narcissistic tendencies. Don't paint

565
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: red flags white. The body is an incredible somatic instrument.

566
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: It's really wise. And if you can find your breath, yeah,

567
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 2: in your gut right the vagus nerve. We could talk

568
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: about all this wild stuff, but if you just pause

569
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: and breathe and notice, like, do I feel safe? Is

570
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: this something I want to keep pursuing, I think you'll

571
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 2: be on good footing.

572
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

573
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 3: I think I saw this thing about like when you

574
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: feel very connected to your partner, you're more.

575
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 4: Likely to like feel sleepy. I don't know if that's.

576
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 2: Necessarily true or relax. Yeah, yeah, I mean.

577
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 3: It kind of makes sense. If you talk about like

578
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: being comfortable with someone.

579
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: I think so.

580
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: Feel that like anxiety response. It's like a safety mechanism

581
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: from you know.

582
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: I mean you have to. I mean there's actually there's

583
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks to look at this. Really Like

584
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: some of us, if we're so overwhelmed, we just like

585
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: not out.

586
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, so I guess there's the opposite.

587
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, you can fond, but there is that experience

588
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: of like, oh my god, I feel so safe with you,

589
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: like I just want to like I finally feel like

590
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: I can rest. What a beautiful experience.

591
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: And there actually is one more question from my twenty

592
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 3: six female mother fifty nine female won't stop asking about

593
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: who I'm texting, what I'm doing, or if I have

594
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: certain social media when I'm on my phone? Question, how

595
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 3: can I establish the boundary that it's my business about

596
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: what I'm doing on my phone and not hers without

597
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: being rute?

598
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: I mean wild? Right? Yeah, I think the idea for

599
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: parents is to really be available to actually may say

600
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: it this way, it's our responsibility to hold our boundaries

601
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: and that can be hard. But one cool thing about

602
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: attachment is it's highly collaborative and we develop what's called metacognition,

603
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: which is insight. So the way that would work in

604
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: this relationship is like, hey, mom, I'm noticing that you're

605
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: asking me a lot of questions about my phone, and

606
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 2: I'm wondering what's going on, And really try and put

607
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 2: yourself in her position and let her see that you're

608
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: thinking about that, and it might wake her up to like,

609
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's so whack. What am I doing

610
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 2: it may not. You have an opportunity to have your boundaries,

611
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: and this is for everyone. It's my responsibility to hold

612
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 2: my boundaries. It's not as important to me that you

613
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: like my boundaries. You don't have to. They're my boundaries.

614
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: And if I can have coherent boundaries for myself that

615
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: feel safe and protected and supported, then I can see

616
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: the kind of world that I want to engage in.

617
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: Kind of going back to the dating thing, right, I

618
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: have to find meaning and set boundaries in my own life.

619
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: And if people don't want to hang out for it,

620
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, it's like, yeah, and this

621
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: goes from mom. I mean, like you're in a relationship

622
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: with your mother. It will persevere, but you're allowed to

623
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: adjust that. And I imagine, although it wasn't stated that

624
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: this misattunement between the mother and the child started a

625
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: long time ago and this is the latest example of it.

626
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: I don't think this is like totally new behavior. Fall

627
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 2: into patterns, that's right, you know, but you're allowed to

628
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: establish a sense of privacy and boundaries and it's actually appropriate.

629
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like.

630
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 3: I mean, with my parents, even to a certain extent,

631
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: there's when you're like a parent yeah, I'm just assuming nothing.

632
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 2: I'm a parent.

633
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have to kind of there is less

634
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,479
Speaker 3: privacy when you have like a minor child.

635
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to be involved.

636
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to be involved to keep them safe.

637
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: And then when they become an adult, it's like there's

638
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: that transition period where you're like, oh, I actually can't

639
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: know everything about your life.

640
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 4: Yeah.

641
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really a beautiful experience. And you know,

642
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: parents can have grief around that, like, oh, my child's

643
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: not a child and that's cool, but like deal with

644
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: your grief. Like part of the beauty of parenting is

645
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: this ongoing process of loving someone so much and then

646
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: letting them be in the world and let them be

647
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: free and to support that. So and I think parents

648
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: can fall into patterns and it's totally acceptable to be like, Yo,

649
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: what are you doing mom.

650
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 4: Let's let's pause on that. But those are all the questions.

651
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for answering. Yeah, sure, they I

652
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: think they've been saying they appreciate it.

653
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 5: You get some like real chords for some people who

654
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 5: are like just like I wasn't even they din't even

655
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 5: submit questions, but wow, they are wowed right now.

656
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: So thank you. So much.

657
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 2: I think a lot of those.

658
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 4: Us, those people are able to relate with.

659
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, just they're relatable, you know, their boundary issues or

660
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: stuff about how we relate to you know, this is

661
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: the thing and attachment. It's about the development of a

662
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: relationship to myself and the world. So relationships and exploration

663
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: and those are things we can all relate to.

664
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

665
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.

666
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 4: And we have another story that we're really into.

667
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into it.

668
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm scared to let my eighteen year old daughter

669
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: have her freedom.

670
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa. I mean, this is kind of the opposite

671
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: of the mom getting on the phone.

672
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: Trigger warning emotional abuse. I am a forty nine year

673
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: old mother with an eighteen year old daughter in community college.

674
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: I am also very introverted and a little anxious. I

675
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: understand my daughter needs a social life, but I just

676
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: don't feel right about it. By the way, this comes

677
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: from worry Bird. She and if you want to submit

678
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: your own stories, go to the r slash Okay storytime

679
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: subvert it.

680
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: I'm Sophia.

681
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: My name is Daniel Ay Hearn. I'm a psychotherapist in

682
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: Los Angeles.

683
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: When I'm keon and.

684
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: Oh P says this year she started going out with

685
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: more friends. She was sad that she stood her teen

686
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: years in her room, but she was.

687
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 4: Safe that way.

688
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: She downloaded Life three sixty for me wow, and bought

689
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: pepper spray and her phone is always on. That is

690
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: interesting to me, having been a teenager. I never my

691
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 3: parents never did that. But I'm wondering if that is

692
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: coming from her mom's anxieties.

693
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: Oh, this is right, Yeah, I mean our nervous systems

694
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: mirror each other. So going back to the Barbie Daddy, Yeah, right,

695
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: Like if you're sort of noticing that shut downness and

696
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: cut offness, you may start to see that in your child. Yeah,

697
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: either in concert exactly the same or the exact opposite.

698
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: Yes, So this could like yeah, yeah, rebels versus yes,

699
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: or someone who falls in line.

700
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: You know, thinking about that anxiety. If I'm not allowed

701
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: to experiment and explore and fall down and pick myself

702
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: up and develop a sense of self mastery or autonomy,

703
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to be frightened of the world. And being

704
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 2: frightened in the world is not a skillful way to engage,

705
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: because you tend to find yourself in harming conditions for sure.

706
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: John here Og host we're going to get back to

707
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 3: these stories, but a quick free minute break from has

708
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 3: for more sponsors. She's usually at them ma all or

709
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: downtown exploring with friends. I just don't like that I

710
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: don't know what she's doing or who she's with. I

711
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 3: believe it's much better to stay at home so there's

712
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 3: no risk of anything bad happening to anyone. Sometimes she's

713
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: annoyed about it. She has a ten pm curfew. Midnight

714
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: is much too late, she says. She feels stifled and sheltered,

715
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: But I'm just trying to keep her safe. She gives

716
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 3: me weird looks when I tell her that going out

717
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: a lot isn't a good thing. Am I being irrational?

718
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: And I'm sure the relevant comments will have a lot

719
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: to say about this, But before we jump into them.

720
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: Irrational, Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's a reason. I'm

721
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: sure if we really talk to this person, there's a

722
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: very rational, understandable, historic reason of why she feels this way.

723
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: Is it the optimal way to build trust and safety

724
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: in your child? I think this person knows no. And

725
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's really painful for this person to see like, oh,

726
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: this isn't working and it's really painful for me, and

727
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: it's really painful for my child. And I mean, all

728
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: of that is so hard.

729
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it also feels like the daughter is kind

730
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: of unlearning because you know, he said, like she downloaded

731
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: life three sixty and was very cautious, right, but now

732
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: at eighteen, is trying to unlearn those kind of fear responses.

733
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to evolve?

734
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

735
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 5: Right?

736
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: Isn't that what we want? We want to continue evolution

737
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: and keep going.

738
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 5: Uh.

739
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: Personal poet says, let your daughter live, and op responds,

740
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: she's smart, but too trusting of people. I'm scared she'll

741
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: get into a bad situation. I'm a single mother and

742
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: I can't have the stress of her possibly getting unalived

743
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: or worse. Home is safer, and comment two says it's

744
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: normal and healthy for your daughter to go out. She's

745
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: learning to build bonds with people, exploring our beautiful world

746
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: and connecting.

747
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 4: With her community.

748
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: The skills she's developing will help her professionally if she

749
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: moves to a new place, and when she finds a

750
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: life partner who will have their own family and friends

751
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: who will also be in her life. What about yourself?

752
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 3: Do you have enough strong friendships? And do you take

753
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: enough time to explore all that's going on locally, Ope responds,

754
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: I'm just scared she'll do something stupid. Part of the

755
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 3: reason why she's going out is because she complained her

756
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: senior year that her peers babied her because she was sheltered.

757
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: She also felt bad about not hanging out with friends

758
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: much when she wasn't busy with jobs and adulthood.

759
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 4: What if she.

760
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: Drinks to try and fit in she never got much

761
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: male attention. What if she sleeps with a man just

762
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: to feel affection and ends up pregnant. I'm very introverted

763
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: and quite the homebody, so I only talk to people

764
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: at work in church. I guess I'm too old for friendships.

765
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: Loll museums, sport events and the like don't really interest me.

766
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: I just shop, work, and sleep, and there isn't there's

767
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: smart comments, But I do kind of want to discuss

768
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: just that comment from opecause I mean, just from my

769
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: thoughts on that, I feel like you she might do

770
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: all of those things. Yeah, And I think that you

771
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 3: can only as a parent give your advice and prepare

772
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: them as best as you can, and then you have

773
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 3: to let them do it.

774
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 5: Yeah.

775
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: I mean, ideally, you let them be free in the

776
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: world and then you trust that the relationship that you

777
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 2: built will bring them back to share it prepares it. Yeah,

778
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean that's the idea. And maybe what we're what

779
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm feeling into this is that the parent feels like, oh,

780
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: I didn't do a good job, and that's really what's

781
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: freaking me out. Yeah, so trying to control that outcome,

782
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: but you can't. Really you gotta live, Yeah, you gotta trust.

783
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: I Also, you know, like as much as this is

784
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: about the mother daughter relationship, I think it's also about

785
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: Ope feeling like she can't explore anything anymore. Oh right, Yeah,

786
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: because she said I'm too old for friendships, which I

787
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: don't think anyone is ever to find new friendships.

788
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: So there's that fear of letting go of the It

789
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: sounds like there's some ameshment too, like the child is

790
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: not your friend. Yeah, it's to your child.

791
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, She's relying on her daughter.

792
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's I mean, it's unfair.

793
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe some of that anxious attachment of being

794
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: like if my daughter leaves, who else do I have?

795
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, with the anxious attachment, right, if you're so

796
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 2: focused on self, then you're not being an authentic person,

797
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: and then you actually don't see the person exactly because

798
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: that you're constantly lost in this projection that you're trying

799
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: to control to reduce that fear of abandonment. Absolutely all painful.

800
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

801
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: Comment three says coming from parents who had me on

802
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: a short leash in high school. The more you push

803
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 3: your fear on her, the more likely she will be

804
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: to engage in risky behavior. Trust your daughter. She has

805
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: friends who will look out for she has peppers pray,

806
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: and she has your number. She's got that peppers ray.

807
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 3: The best thing you can do is be there for

808
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: her and say that if anything happens, you're only a

809
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: call away, and there is an update, and we're gonna

810
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: jump into that one so you don't have to wait.

811
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into it.

812
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: But how do you handle your kids not liking you

813
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: when it's your fault? Says Ope, My heart broke today,

814
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: but it's much deserved. My eighteen year old daughter has

815
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 3: slowly stopped sharing things with me. She's scared to talk

816
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 3: to me. I'm short tempered and I often lecture her

817
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: out of love. But she once said, half of our converse.

818
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: Is me just talking at her?

819
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 4: She acts a.

820
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 3: Bit like a know it all sometimes. She once said,

821
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: I tell her she's too naive, Yet I gave her

822
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 3: a ten pm curfew. I get pissy when she hangs

823
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: out with her friends, and didn't let her walk outside

824
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 3: her neighborhood until she was sixteen. I'm just trying to

825
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 3: keep her safe. One thing I do understand is that

826
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 3: I made her incapable of handling confrontation. She was sassy

827
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: as a kid, but as she grew older, I wondered

828
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: why she couldn't stand up for herself. Then I remembered

829
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 3: how much I blew up at her or was sarcastic

830
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 3: with her without allowing her to get angry at me back.

831
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: She had OCD. We both recognized the symptoms, and she

832
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: begged for therapy, but I let my denial get the

833
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 3: best of me until her junior year of high school.

834
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 3: I apologized for it this year, but I'm not sure

835
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: if she truly forgives me. And again, this is obviously

836
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 3: can't diagnose, but I'm wondering if maybe Obousy has OCD.

837
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it would be hard to diagnose him.

838
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: I want to do that, but I would say that

839
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: this refrain of like I was trying to keep her safe.

840
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: I was trying to keep her safe. I don't think

841
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: is the whole story. Yeah, you're trying to control the outcome.

842
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: That's not safety, no right. And you're trying to be controlling,

843
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: that's not safety. You have to let people live and

844
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: discover meaning. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts

845
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: that we could share another time about OCD from the

846
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: attachment perspective, but fundamentally, if I could share this, I

847
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: think this would be helpful. Rupture is expected in relationships,

848
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: in any kind of relationship, especially parental relationships, especially with teenagers.

849
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: Repair is optional and so beautiful for this person to recognize, Oh,

850
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 2: my kid is so sick of me. You're allowed to

851
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: voice that, say, Hey, you know what, I think I

852
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: was really unskillful and controlling and I don't want to

853
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: be that way. And to model the fact to a

854
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: teen or someone younger that you can make a mistake

855
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: as an adult and then change your ways changes their

856
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: version of the world. Right, So don't be afraid to

857
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: take accountability and to share that showing vulnerability actually build

858
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: strength in relationships and will help your a lot.

859
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: And Opie hasn't mentioned a father in like a husband

860
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: or anything. Yeah, So I'm wondering if this is I

861
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 3: think I have a friend who has her mom is

862
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: a single mother, and I think and often has a

863
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: very contentious relationship because you're the only people there.

864
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're the only ones in that house.

865
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I think maybe that could be playing

866
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: into this of like they're the only people that have.

867
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: And there's like parentification and spousification. A lot of things

868
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 2: can happen when you're relying too much on this younger

869
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 2: person and that stuff.

870
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 3: I apologize for it this year, but I'm not sure

871
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: if she truly forgives me. Today she told me she

872
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 3: wants to go down to a UNI down in Georgia

873
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: when she's done with community college. I have a sinking

874
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 3: feeling it's to do with me. I'm offended.

875
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 4: I do a lot for her, but I understand.

876
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: Mom's how do you deal with this if it's your

877
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: fault your kids don't like you?

878
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 4: And there are some relevant comments.

879
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: Uh Ducky's mama says, you're offended that the daughter you

880
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: talk down to and denied mental health treatment wants to

881
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 3: move as far away as possible. This right here, tells

882
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: me you don't want to work on yourself. You just

883
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 3: want to make her magically appreciate and love you. If

884
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 3: you want to fix this, you need to fix your actions. Yeah,

885
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: this is the redic comments Yeah, I'll tell you how

886
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 3: I feel. Listen to her without butting in how wrong

887
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: she is. Apologize again for the lack of treatment and

888
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 3: mean it. Tell her you support her wherever she wants

889
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: to go for college. Stop blowing up and start being supportive,

890
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: and if that's difficult, get into therapy. It's going to

891
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: take years and a lot of work to fix this relationship.

892
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: Redditor for says, thank you. My father is very similar

893
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 3: to Ope into this day. It's all about how much

894
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 3: he's done for me, as if providing material necessities can

895
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 3: somehow absolve them of the very real consequences of their actions,

896
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 3: and OP responds, you're right, I guess offended was the

897
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 3: wrong word. I know I did wrong and it hurts.

898
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: She's upset, but I acknowledge and understand why she feels

899
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 3: the way she does. I let my pride and control

900
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: get the best of me. I'll look into go going

901
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 3: into therapy, and OP also responds to a deleted comment

902
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: I'm an immigrant, hence why I seem foreign quote unquote,

903
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 3: my child was born here in the US. And another

904
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: editor says, the long winded lectures are just you punishing her.

905
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: Turn a fifteen second issue into a thirty minute punishment

906
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: talk where you release your anger on her and feel

907
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 3: vindicated for setting things right. But you're just a bully

908
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,959
Speaker 3: and an ale op says, I guess it makes sense

909
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: why she got mad when I'd lecture her. I was

910
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: raised in a way where children must listen to when

911
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: adults talk to them and to get upsets.

912
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 4: Is this no at all behavior?

913
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: Granted I didn't always correct her in the nicest way.

914
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 3: For example, it's important to save your money versus my usual.

915
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 3: If I spent money like you, I'd be homeless. I

916
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 3: need a work on my communication. Another editor says this

917
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: comment is so very telling. You don't get it.

918
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 4: Even with all of.

919
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: The personal experiences being shared about others who live with

920
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: a parent like you, you think that a working on communication

921
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: is going to do anything. This has nothing to do

922
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: with communication. Simple question, yes or no?

923
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 4: Do you want to.

924
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: Be involved with any grandchildren's lives? If yes, go to therapy.

925
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: It's that simple. Another redditor says, why does your adult

926
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: child have a curfew? Honestly, I kind of disagree with

927
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: that comment because my parents, personally for me, I had

928
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: when I was living in their house. Yeah, so I

929
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: see that one. I don't think it's as cut and

930
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: dry for that. OP says, we live in a very

931
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: safe area, but you can never be too sheriff who

932
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: or what's out there. Another person says, she's an adult,

933
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: I'm curious what would have been the consequences if she

934
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: missed her curfew? OP says, I wouldn't be happy and

935
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: I'd probably not let her go out the next time

936
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 3: her friends invite around. She's an adult, but a very

937
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: young one, and she still lives under my roof, so

938
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: she should respect the rules. And there is an update.

939
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: But there are a lot of comments that we just

940
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: got there.

941
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 4: So do you have any thoughts on any of those.

942
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: No, I'm just listening, really. I mean, I think, well,

943
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: we don't know, we're not in this family system, so

944
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: we're kind of hearing, and we're all we all have

945
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: different ideas. It just sounds really hard. Yeah, And I

946
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 2: think what we're hearing and the context of the control

947
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: is the tip of the iceberg, and I'd be so

948
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: curious how it started. And it sounds like it's so

949
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 2: painful for everyone in this family system.

950
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, like again, like OPI says she

951
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: was an immigrant. Don't have more knowledge than that, but

952
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we read stories where you have like

953
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: a child who has to take on the role as

954
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: translator or as just like cultural yeah, you know, and

955
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: so that kind of goes into parentification. And there was

956
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: I think going back to like the beginning comments where

957
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: they were talking about her moving away.

958
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: From school and op being having a hard time.

959
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, having a hard time with that and thinking that

960
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: it was kind of against her. I think a lot

961
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: of times space can help those relationships, Yeah, yeah, because

962
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: they've been so ameshed.

963
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: Totally so pressurized.

964
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: For sure, like maybe you can actually rebuild your relationship

965
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: if she goes away.

966
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 2: Well you might understand it with some distance. And yet

967
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 2: to your point, I mean, culture is very powerful. We

968
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 2: don't know the culture from which this is arising and

969
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: reviewing it from our culture, and you know, the privilege

970
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: of just like reading a little bit and having an opinion.

971
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: We don't know. But I mean, ultimately it's pretty clear

972
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: there's a lot of care here and a desire to

973
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: understand and do better.

974
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel I do think the comments are

975
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: being somewhat harsh because I think it's clear that Ope

976
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: is looking for advice and it does want to improve,

977
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 3: just doesn't quite know how.

978
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also imagine that it's hard for people to

979
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: hear about someone being so controlling, Yes, because that really

980
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 2: that's really activating for us. A lot of us can

981
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: relate to people trying to be controlling and.

982
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 3: Having our relationships with parents percent to extend. Everyone has

983
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: like arguments and stuff with parents and stuff.

984
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: Again, conflict, rupture, definite repair is really the beautiful opportunity.

985
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there is an update.

986
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 5: Say, yes, I can relate to not Op. But I

987
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 5: guess Ope's child because my mom was an immigrant and

988
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 5: the way she was raised was very harsh, right curfew,

989
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 5: I need to know where you're going, Oh, you're going

990
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 5: out with your friends, even if you're one minute late,

991
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 5: you're grounded or like you're in trouble kind of thing.

992
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 5: It was very very intense because I would compare just

993
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 5: like Whitney, very intense right there. But I would compare

994
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 5: and contrast my you know, relationship with my mom, my

995
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 5: friend's relationships who their parents were white, and it was

996
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 5: they're like what they.

997
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: Would scratch their head kind of thing.

998
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 5: So it hearing this is very crazy coming from a

999
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 5: parent like this were like, I'm an immigrant and this

1000
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 5: is how I was raised and you know, I'm gonna

1001
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 5: do this to my child kind of things.

1002
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: So and maybe also her relationship with mental health and

1003
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 3: like therapy and culture and yeah, with culture and stuff,

1004
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: and how that because she says she didn't believe it,

1005
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 3: she denied it.

1006
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, could I ask you a question, of course, in

1007
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: noticing that in this moment, how is your relationship to

1008
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: those boundaries as you've gotten older changed? Do they so?

1009
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: Like my mom and I are so cool now.

1010
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 5: But again, it was just I think once she realized

1011
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 5: I could take care of myself once I'm an adult,

1012
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 5: it was it wasn't like an instant, but it was

1013
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 5: a very quick, gradual transition from like parent to like

1014
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 5: now we're you know, we understand.

1015
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: Each other in the world. Yeah, exactly so.

1016
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 5: And I think it was also kind of seeing it

1017
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 5: how because she was talking to the other parents and

1018
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 5: they were like, oh, no, this is okay, we do

1019
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 5: this kind of thing. So and she was like, I

1020
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 5: don't know, is that okay?

1021
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: Why are you asking me?

1022
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 5: I'm not the parent kind of thing when I was

1023
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 5: a teenager or you know, thirteen year old saying mom,

1024
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 5: my friends can do this or my friends can do that,

1025
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 5: and she said no, no, and then it changed over time,

1026
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 5: but it was I think it was like a culture

1027
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 5: shock or you know, for her.

1028
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: So totally yeah, yeah, culture is powerful.

1029
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1030
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: Hey it's sam og host. We're gonet back to these

1031
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: delectable stories. But here's three minutes of ads from our

1032
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 2: sponsors to help support the show.

1033
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 4: But we're going to get into this update.

1034
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 3: So Ope asks to start, why are my daughter's so different?

1035
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: Yet they were raised the same way? Oh, I have

1036
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 4: two daughters. This is yeah, this is this is new information.

1037
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 3: One eighteen one, twenty eight. They both were goodie two

1038
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 3: shoes as kids, and both were raised by me, both

1039
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 3: live at home, and both grew up religious. Both were

1040
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: also major people pleasers and aren't mentally ill as far

1041
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: as I know.

1042
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 4: Is this the same?

1043
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 3: Because didn't we find out that she had OCD? Yet

1044
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: the younger doesn't really talk to me. She's a bit

1045
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 3: more wild. She goes out with friends, often wore a

1046
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: fake nose piercing a bit, and isn't Christian anymore. She

1047
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 3: gets more and more assertive and confident the older she gets.

1048
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: The older text and calls me all the time. She

1049
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: still asks me for permission for things. If she's not

1050
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 3: working she has a career, she usually stays in her

1051
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 3: room laying down. She's introverted and complacent. Why is this? Yeah,

1052
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: so it seems like this is the still the.

1053
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: Same plot, diickens.

1054
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so we have We have two kids that

1055
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: I guess had had very different responses to that upbringing,

1056
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 3: which is kind of what you're saying of, like falling

1057
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: into that anxiety or like pushing rebel. Yeah, throw the

1058
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: dough says, Having read your many other posts where even

1059
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 3: you admit how awful you were to her, I can't

1060
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 3: be surprised in the slightest you clearly resent her being

1061
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 3: different than you, whereas you're older, seems more like you

1062
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: or you've browbeaten her enough to be complacent. But wow,

1063
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: shocking two humans are different than each other. Also wild

1064
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: for wanting to have friends and not sit at home

1065
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: being yelled at and lectured by her mom. For wanting

1066
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: to not be sheltered or starved from the world. I'm

1067
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: beginning to think you're either trolling or really really ubstuse

1068
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 3: I truly feel so sorry for both of your children.

1069
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: Oh p says, I don't resent her. I'm just kind

1070
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: of laughing about how they were both so similar in

1071
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: their youth but are now two different people. And yes,

1072
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 3: I need a work on the damage I caused to her.

1073
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 3: My oldest daughter even agrees that the youngest is trying

1074
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 3: too hard to be like her peers by going out

1075
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 3: and such. She's not in danger, but part of me

1076
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 3: wishes she was still the quiet kid she was pre

1077
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: the VID. At least she's learning to speak up for herself.

1078
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 3: Throw the Dough says, you're not laughing, You're actively still

1079
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: trying to make her this complacent, scare the world stay

1080
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 3: at home person. You very clearly expressed how much you

1081
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 3: resent her and actively try to keep her home because

1082
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 3: God forbid she makes friends. And yes, it's clear you

1083
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: wish she was still the person she was before she

1084
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: finally pushed back. Also actively denying her help for her

1085
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 3: OCD is a monster move to then also say no

1086
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 3: mental illness, but not surprising because of the way you

1087
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 3: treated it. I truly hope she does escape for college

1088
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 3: and learn that this is so far from normal. Your

1089
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: parents should love you and support you and want you

1090
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: to be an adult with friends and a life of

1091
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: your own. A parent shouldn't browbeat you into complacency and

1092
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 3: make you fear leaving the house. There is a little

1093
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 3: bit more, but yeah, we've got some commenters who are

1094
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 3: clearly feeling.

1095
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: You're feeling this.

1096
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, fact that, yes, absolutely somewhat relatable to them. It

1097
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 3: seems Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I've seen

1098
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 3: necessarily exactly what they're seeing from this comment or from

1099
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: this op.

1100
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: What's your take it?

1101
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: It feels like Opee hasn't necessarily said like you can't leave,

1102
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 3: you're not allowed.

1103
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 4: Just seems cautious.

1104
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, yeah, confusing, maybe don't know what to do.

1105
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just the fact that she's coming

1106
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 3: on here and asking for and also the person who

1107
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: was like, you're a troll, I've seen so much. I mean,

1108
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: like even to an extent my you know, my mom

1109
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 3: was scared and cautious about my my brother and I

1110
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 3: and stuff.

1111
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: So which is also appropriate. Yes, right, Yeah, you're paying attention.

1112
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: The world is terrifying.

1113
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 3: Yes, especially now, especially you know, for kids being in

1114
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 3: school with like violence happening in school and stuff.

1115
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 2: That's right.

1116
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: I think it's it's there to be cautious, especially you know,

1117
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 3: maybe Op again coming from it as an immigrant and

1118
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: seeing this violence if she's in the US. I think

1119
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 3: that's very fair, and I think it's I think it's

1120
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: a little bit harsh to be like, why would you

1121
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 3: ever do this?

1122
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: Right?

1123
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 4: Why say this.

1124
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: Understanding is important? We're just trying to understand.

1125
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: And I think like offering Op that understanding while also

1126
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: saying this is maybe not the right way to.

1127
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: Go about it, which I think OP knows.

1128
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 4: Yes, right exactly. Opis coming on here to say.

1129
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: That, like's not working out and it's really hard and

1130
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: I don't understand it, and there's a cultural gap and

1131
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: I want to do right by my kids and they're

1132
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 2: having different experiences. I mean, that's pretty brave.

1133
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

1134
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,919
Speaker 3: I think Op's at least on the right track. Yeah,

1135
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: still has a lot left.

1136
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: To learn, clearly, we're all learning together.

1137
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: And I think that, like, I mean, we have a

1138
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: lot of stories where people go no contact and stuff

1139
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 3: with the parents or family members. Yeah, and I think

1140
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 3: this is behavior that you kind of get very clear

1141
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 3: consequences with.

1142
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 4: It's like either you.

1143
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: Change and you get that relationship with your daughter or

1144
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: you don't change, yeah, and you loser.

1145
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1146
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: What a waste to miss that opportunity to grow. And

1147
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 2: I guess again going back to that I did it wrong,

1148
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: Like you can talk about that. Yeah, you can find

1149
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 2: a way to voice that and build that relationship stronger.

1150
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: Right, I think being honest.

1151
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: As a kid gets older, they come to a deeper

1152
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 2: understanding of like, oh, maybe this is where they're coming from.

1153
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: Sounds like everyone in this family system could benefit from

1154
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: more life experience, absolutely, and then come back and kind

1155
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 2: of share what's happening with them.

1156
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we've all been there too.

1157
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 5: When you think when you're a teenager everything, Yeah, so

1158
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 5: back then you were like, oh my gosh, like this

1159
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 5: is ridiculous, Like I know better than this.

1160
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: You dwell back on it and you're like, oh man,

1161
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: you know it's.

1162
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: Real and it's funny from my perspective, Like Sam and

1163
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 3: I had very different experiences with because my parents were strict,

1164
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 3: but Sam was very much He was much more adventurous

1165
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: growing out, like he would climb buildings and like, you know,

1166
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: get into trouble in those ways and stuff. And I

1167
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 3: was very much like I hung out with my friends

1168
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 3: and I didn't go to parties. I was like I

1169
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 3: self kind of imposed regulations for myself. Yeah.

1170
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 4: True.

1171
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: Or did you feel like you did you feel like

1172
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: when you were younger you could go climb buildings but

1173
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 2: you didn't want to or what was.

1174
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1175
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: My mom was very adamant about don't climb the buildings,

1176
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: but I didn't. I don't think that she would have

1177
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 3: prevented me from going to.

1178
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 4: Parties or anything.

1179
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, who you were, It just wasn't.

1180
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't who I was.

1181
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 3: And I think Sam had a little bit maybe more

1182
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: you know, do this, don't do this, because he was

1183
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 3: doing more stuff oh uh huh, whereas I wasn't really

1184
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 3: doing anything.

1185
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't feel like good, I don't need

1186
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: that advice. I'm not going to do it.

1187
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1188
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 3: And I think as i've you know, become more independent

1189
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 3: and moved out and stuff, it's finding that you know,

1190
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: I've been doing more like I host more part I

1191
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 3: don't climb buildings.

1192
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: Okay, I was going to say, you can climbing building.

1193
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 4: I've been climbing buildings.

1194
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, goals, But yeah, I think what you were

1195
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: kind of saying about them not having a lot of

1196
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 3: life experience, I think it's it's interesting because you have

1197
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 3: an eighteen year old, thirty something year old or twenty

1198
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 3: eight year old something like that, yes, and then forty

1199
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 3: nine or something, yeah, somewhere along those lines, and they

1200
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 3: all seem to have a similar amount.

1201
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: Of life experience limited.

1202
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, limited.

1203
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 2: It's problematic. Yeah, And look it's hard, you know. I mean,

1204
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: like your parents want to protect you, and it is

1205
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: the natural response to want to push back against that,

1206
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: and you have to find that sweet spot, you know,

1207
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: of like the kids are trying to get in an

1208
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 2: end zone and the parent's job is to not essentially right,

1209
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: to keep them safe, but you want them to have

1210
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: life experience because then there prepares them more for life

1211
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 2: in the future, and it makes the whole experiences of

1212
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: family richer and it's terrifying.

1213
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 4: Of course, someone did actually have a great point. I

1214
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 4: do actually rock climb now.

1215
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: Oh do you really?

1216
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1217
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 2: Oh, there you go.

1218
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and my mom is not happy about it.

1219
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: Is really do you like free climb buildings though?

1220
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 5: No?

1221
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, exactly. I don't tell my mom. I yeah, no,

1222
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 4: I just I just bolder.

1223
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: But yeah, cool, we'll see. Bouldering's great.

1224
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 3: Another editor says, simple, your older daughter has ten extra

1225
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 3: years of emotional abuse, and it's just that more ground down,

1226
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 3: while your younger one is seeing what happened to her

1227
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: sister and has probably internalized the lesson that she's not

1228
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 3: going to tolerate that crap. OHP says, that's fair. I

1229
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: made a lot of mistakes in my parenting. My youngest

1230
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 3: thinks her older sister is parentified and codependent, something her

1231
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 3: community college counselor told her.

1232
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 4: I looked up the terms, and I can't help but agree.

1233
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: She hasn't moved out out of guilt, and she feels

1234
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 3: responsible for me.

1235
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 4: I've created a monster.

1236
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 3: As for the youngest, I and my older daughter are

1237
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 3: scared she's gonna act wild for the sake of fitting

1238
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: in and getting in trouble. Another editor says, so, not

1239
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 3: only are you rude to your younger daughter to her face,

1240
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 3: you also trash talker behind her back with her older sister.

1241
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,760
Speaker 3: I don't know if that was entirely trash talking. Yeah,

1242
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 3: the teenage years were exactly the time both of your

1243
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 3: children should have been learning to socialize with their peers,

1244
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: to develop their critical thinking skills for the real world,

1245
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 3: along with fitting in or not and making good choices

1246
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: about all those things. You denied both of them that opportunity.

1247
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: How exactly do you expect either of your children to

1248
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 3: function in the world when you won't give them a

1249
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 3: chance to even experience the world in the first place.

1250
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: What exactly is your plant? Both of them go to

1251
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 3: a job, come home, do nothing, and live with you

1252
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 3: until you pass away. You expect them to never have friends,

1253
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 3: never develop romantic partnerships, not have children of their own,

1254
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: not have hobbies they enjoy, to never travel or explore

1255
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 3: the world. That's not worrying about your kids. That's downright cruelty.

1256
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 3: And that is the end of the story. I think

1257
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 3: maybe something Ope could think about is the fact that

1258
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 3: she is an immigrant and did travel and did make

1259
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 3: that very big.

1260
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 4: You know, lead transition.

1261
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to know what you don't know,

1262
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: so operating from that context of trying to make sense

1263
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 2: here in the States, and it's really wild. It must

1264
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 2: be really hard.

1265
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, final thoughts.

1266
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah about OP I mean or four OP? I mean, no,

1267
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: I think well. Fundamentally, my approach is you need to

1268
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: collaborate with your children on their life. That is the

1269
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: opportunity of the parent to show up and when they stumble,

1270
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: you help pick them up. And you're allowed to have

1271
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: boundaries and they're allowed to not like it, and at

1272
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: a certain point you have to remove those boundaries and

1273
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 2: let them be free. That's just kind of the way

1274
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 2: it goes. That's healthy attachment and that's healthy development. And

1275
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 2: it's totally hard, and don't ask your children to take

1276
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 2: care of you and how hard it is. That's not

1277
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: fair to them and it won't work. Yeah, those are

1278
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: my final thoughts.

1279
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 4: Final answer that was the quiz.

1280
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 5: Thank you and Daniel, this is our time. But again,

1281
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 5: what a great guest. Yeah, we appreciate your time and

1282
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 5: then answering all those questions and also your expertise.

1283
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:02,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me you guys, what a cool

1284
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: thing you're doing. Thanks to the community for having me

1285
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 2: on and I'll see again.

1286
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you did great.

1287
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: Do you wanna?

1288
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 4: Do you wanna one more time?

1289
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: I'm telling me.

1290
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 3: Who you are.

1291
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: My name is Daniel Ahern. I'm a psychotherapist in Los Angeles.

1292
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:20,760
Speaker 2: I focus on attachment repair and mindfulness. I'm easy to find.

1293
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 2: I don't know how you tag people or whatever.

1294
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 4: But you know we can.

1295
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 3: We can absolutely If you have like an Instagram or

1296
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 3: like anything that you would like us to tag, just

1297
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 3: like keono, and we'll tag that in the.

1298
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 2: Chat okay and in the video. Cool rad Thanks everybody

1299
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 4: Course, thank you so much for coming.