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Speaker 1: to the solid verbal. I'm that for me, I'm a man,
Speaker 1: I'm forty.
Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for day?
Speaker 1: Edith State is that whoom whoom?
Speaker 2: And then and Tye, welcome back to the Soliburbo boys
Speaker 2: and girls. My name is ty hilde Rand joining me
Speaker 2: as always over there in New York City.
Speaker 1: My good friend, the man with the plan.
Speaker 2: Uh don't know what else I can call him, but
Speaker 2: Dan Rubertstein, sir, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good?
Speaker 2: I got my quarter mile time to an all time
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen low today?
Speaker 1: Whoa and great? Do you live your life a quarter
Speaker 1: mile at a time?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't phrase it any other way? Yes, of course,
Speaker 2: do ty?
Speaker 1: What are we down to now? Uh? Today? Was I
Speaker 1: hit one thirty three? One thirty three? Right?
Speaker 2: So it's six low six mile?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Are you look like a madman? Just sprint all out
Speaker 2: sprinting in the middle of New York? But I feel
Speaker 2: good about it?
Speaker 1: Are you training for something specific like a relay RaSE
Speaker 1: of some sort? No, what is not an ambition here?
Speaker 2: My ambition is basically, I get very bored running, even
Speaker 2: though I like listening to podcasts when I run, and
Speaker 2: I've been reading more and more that distance running it's
Speaker 2: just not that great for your joints and for anything.
Speaker 2: And I'm not getting younger.
Speaker 1: Tie. I hope that's not a misnomer.
Speaker 2: And I've also read that you know, high interval and
Speaker 2: sprint and really electric workouts tie for the Matab and
Speaker 2: I'm a slave for the Matab tie. Sure everybody knows
Speaker 2: that about me. So I've been mixing in a lot
Speaker 2: more sprints and the only way I can really get
Speaker 2: into it is if I am competing with myself and others. Really,
Speaker 2: but I'm feeling good.
Speaker 1: So just a boy out there running at listening to
Speaker 1: hardcore history. That's exactly what I do. Okay, Well, on
Speaker 1: that note, thank you for joining us here on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Big thanks to our guest of her last week, Adam
Speaker 1: Kramer from Bleacher Report, who was so kind as to
Speaker 1: join you and to talk all sorts of college all
Speaker 1: sorts of college football things. Excuse me always to have
Speaker 1: Adam on. I'm sad I missed it, but as people
Speaker 1: who listen to this show are well aware, I am
Speaker 1: still very much in the process of moving and getting
Speaker 1: myself all sorted out. So I thought I had everything
Speaker 1: in place before recording last week, but that was not
Speaker 1: the case. So thank you to you, Thank you to
Speaker 1: Adam for pinch hitting for me in my absence. But
Speaker 1: I'm back. I am back back, baby.
Speaker 2: We hit over under Win total stuff we talked about.
Speaker 2: He did a story on the it's sort of the
Speaker 2: tongue of a loa family and sort of just focusing
Speaker 2: on Talia to his younger brother who's still in high
Speaker 2: school at writing pop high school prospect.
Speaker 1: He's the writing, he is the righty correct okay.
Speaker 2: And then we talked to summer things, which we I
Speaker 2: missed you because you always have really good, if not controversial,
Speaker 2: if not completely incorrect opinions about broad life things. Sure,
Speaker 2: whereas I think I was mostly in agreement with Adam.
Speaker 2: There wasn't tension. He just had very good opinions about summer.
Speaker 1: Well, we're excited about tonight's show. We actually have a
Speaker 1: cool little concept here that we're going to trot out momentarily.
Speaker 1: But of course, if you're a new listener, we're going
Speaker 1: to be here all off season long talking college football
Speaker 1: things and life things whatever we can talk about basically
Speaker 1: until we get to like August, when it comes time
Speaker 1: to actually start talking about teams and previews and whatnot.
Speaker 1: But yes, as always, you can find us at iTunes
Speaker 1: dot com, Solid Verbal. We also have a Facebook, a Twitter,
Speaker 1: and Instagram. They started a subreddit. Some of our most
Speaker 1: ardent supporters out at reddit dot com, slash r slash
Speaker 1: Solid Verbal. We've got a new website that is very
Speaker 1: much in the pipeline and looking awesome thanks to our
Speaker 1: friends over at Superboss. We'll be talking much more about
Speaker 1: that in the coming days and weeks. We've got shirts
Speaker 1: and mugs and hats and all sorts of fun merchandise
Speaker 1: on the way as well that we can get out
Speaker 1: to you, we promise in time for the start of
Speaker 1: the season, and we're going to keep updating that with
Speaker 1: new merch all throughout the calendar year. So exciting times
Speaker 1: ahead here on the Verbal. And that's all to say
Speaker 1: that we've got a live show coming up, Yes I can.
Speaker 2: Should we just say the date even though we're not
Speaker 2: confirmed still, well, just so people know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess why not?
Speaker 2: All right, it's going to be Saturday, August eleventh, Yes,
Speaker 2: so early to mid August, now that we've said it,
Speaker 2: ty one way or another. We might just have a
Speaker 2: gathering in a park.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, this could be on the shores
Speaker 1: of Lake Michigan. If we're unable to find the a
Speaker 1: proper venue. We're very much getting help, yes, trying to
Speaker 1: find that. BI professionals BI professionals, Right, We're looking into
Speaker 1: all sorts of options for venues. So the planning process
Speaker 1: is well underway. It's just that that's going to be
Speaker 1: the date. We had a couple of people write in
Speaker 1: and ask, and I think we both feel bad about
Speaker 1: keeping people on the hook any longer than we have to.
Speaker 2: Right, people are booking flights or cards or just figuring
Speaker 2: out weekend plans for the summer. It seems right, we
Speaker 2: are very much banking on August the eleventh, So yes,
Speaker 2: let us know if you'll be in town, either for
Speaker 2: the show or for the after party, which would be
Speaker 2: somewhere too much easier to book a wedding venue in
Speaker 2: Chicago for me, yes, than to find a place that
Speaker 2: will house about three hundred people and has some food
Speaker 2: and drink and maybe a little stage and some audio equipment.
Speaker 2: Did in Chicago's a major city, live performance city, but
Speaker 2: it's been tricky finding We're trying to goldilocks this time.
Speaker 2: We're trying to get one that's just right.
Speaker 1: So it's either going to be at a sports bar
Speaker 1: or Jim Delaney's house. We'll let you know. Does he
Speaker 1: live in Chicago. I guess he probably does live in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Maybe Dave Revsen will let us have it, either Dave
Speaker 1: Revsen or Mike Hall.
Speaker 2: I know Adam Mamin doesn't have a house. He has
Speaker 2: an apartment, so that's probably not conducive. But they probably
Speaker 2: have homes, possibly with backyards. You know what, my in
Speaker 2: laws if you want to come to the suburbs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my in laws have a robust backyard.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking flash mob, but podcast a flash pod somewhere
Speaker 1: on Michigan Avenue also an option.
Speaker 2: The Northwestern facility is quite nice, but we don't want
Speaker 2: to do Evanston. Evanston's cool, but we don't.
Speaker 1: Come on.
Speaker 2: We got to get in the city anyway.
Speaker 1: There you go, August, Yes, in Chicago. We're excited. It's
Speaker 1: going to be awesome. Fantasy Things Draft twenty eighteen. What's
Speaker 1: cool stuff? Head? All right, what is the concept? This
Speaker 1: was actually your idea as now of our preface. So
Speaker 1: many of our great ideas on this podcast come from you.
Speaker 1: What is the concept this evening?
Speaker 2: It's a very cute way of playing Devil's Advocate in June.
Speaker 2: So this is my precursor, my warning. We don't want
Speaker 2: bad things. We're not rooting for bad things. We want
Speaker 2: everybody to succeed, even though mathematically that's not possible. But
Speaker 2: we're just here to ask some questions, ty, and today's
Speaker 2: main question is are we sure? And we have a
Speaker 2: number of college football topics I think as it relates
Speaker 2: to this season or just broader, but it has to
Speaker 2: do it this season, like, for instance, are we sure
Speaker 2: that Dan is a vital part to the solid verbal
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, I don't honestly know, but we're
Speaker 2: going to be asking these questions. Are we sure that
Speaker 2: this piece of conventional wisdom is something that should and
Speaker 2: has earned the right to be conventional wisdom.
Speaker 1: So if I said to you, are we sure that
Speaker 1: there are only eighteen McCaffrey brothers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am fully prepared for there to be secret McCaffrey's. Also,
Speaker 2: that would be a very good name for a fantasy
Speaker 2: or not a fantasy, like a pickam Pool entry or
Speaker 2: a bullpick McCaffrey's. Secret McCaffrey's. There is another Fanta baseball
Speaker 2: team whatever.
Speaker 1: Luke did I see it's Luke McCaffrey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a fourth McCaffrey that will play college football
Speaker 2: FBS level, Power five level. I think we had Max
Speaker 2: at Duke Christian at Stanford, Dylan at Michigan, and now
Speaker 2: Luke at Nebraska.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nebraska, Eddie McCaffrey, very fertile, very fertile.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, and apparently the credit all should go to the mother.
Speaker 2: She is apparently a terrific athlete in her own right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well cool. So basically we are challenging conventional
Speaker 1: wisdom here? Are we sure? Blank is blank? Mm hm?
Speaker 2: That's that's the game, okay, And we are going to
Speaker 2: posit a situation and then we're going to talk it out.
Speaker 1: Okay, where do you want to start? Where are we going? First?
Speaker 2: Let's start here because this is what started our conversation. Actually,
Speaker 2: we asked on Twitter and one of the one of
Speaker 2: our viewers, listeners whatever, uh followers tweeted us this exact thing,
Speaker 2: and we already had it number one.
Speaker 1: Boo boo boo. Are we sure Shape Patterson is good? Oh? So?
Speaker 1: Are we sure?
Speaker 2: Because a lot has been made of Shape Patterson and
Speaker 2: the drama transferring away from Ole Miss obviously at touted
Speaker 2: an extremely touted recruit going to Oxford, gets in as
Speaker 2: a true freshman, plays as a sophomore before getting injured
Speaker 2: about halfway through the season, announces his intention to transfer,
Speaker 2: quickly visits Michigan, commits to Michigan, transfers to Michigan, then
Speaker 2: gets the waiver to play immediately because of circumstances at
Speaker 2: Old Miss and why he had to transfer, And there
Speaker 2: seems to be a sigh of relief because he is
Speaker 2: seen as savior is going way too far, but he
Speaker 2: is seen as solidifying a position that has not really
Speaker 2: been all that solid these past couple of seasons.
Speaker 1: It seems like Michigan fans are very hopeful, to say
Speaker 1: the least about one. That's fine that Shaye Patterson could
Speaker 1: provide for them at the quarterback position, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they should be, I mean, I think because
Speaker 2: if you're not hopeful in June, why are you a
Speaker 2: college football fan?
Speaker 1: Right? So, shape Patterson, in case you haven't listened to
Speaker 1: our show water ruling with the NCAA, claims that he
Speaker 1: was missile ed at Old Miss. Therefore his transfer request
Speaker 1: should be processed immediately. And by transfer request, I basically
Speaker 1: mean his eligibility should start right away. You should have
Speaker 1: to sit out a year and going to Michigan. Now,
Speaker 1: Michigan's very excited about this because the quarterback spot has
Speaker 1: been a bit of a bugaboo for our friend Jim
Speaker 1: Barbad now Ever, since he got there, they never really
Speaker 1: had a good permanent solution at the quarterback position. So
Speaker 1: Shaye Patterson comes over from Old Miss. He's obviously got
Speaker 1: a lot of talent, form or five star recruit, did
Speaker 1: some nice things during his time in Oxford. He comes
Speaker 1: over all of a sudden, things are looking a little
Speaker 1: bit more upbeat for Michigan at that spot.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I will only speak for myself, but let's
Speaker 2: be clear, it's better for us if he's good. We
Speaker 2: want good quarterback play, we want good football. So we
Speaker 2: are hoping maybe it was just a situational thing with
Speaker 2: everything that was going on in Oxford. That said, I
Speaker 2: was expecting him to get noticeably better last year, even
Speaker 2: with everything swirling in Oxford, even with a pretty tough schedule.
Speaker 2: I know they had Alabama and Auburn on the road,
Speaker 2: both on the road in consecutive weeks. They went to
Speaker 2: Cal early on, which shouldn't have been that much trouble,
Speaker 2: but seemed to have been some trouble.
Speaker 1: He threw three picks in that game.
Speaker 2: I went back and rewatched a number of the games
Speaker 2: from last year, and again, a lot goes into offensive success,
Speaker 2: whether it's coaches, line, skill, position players, and mind you,
Speaker 2: he had probably one of the best three receivers in
Speaker 2: college football last year in aj Brown. But I was
Speaker 2: watching shape Patterson and that's when the question struck me,
Speaker 2: Like he seems okay, and it has a couple of moments,
Speaker 2: but he's a little bit shorter, he tends to overthrow.
Speaker 2: His footwork seems like it needs I mean, no pun
Speaker 2: intended some strides and made some mistakes. Like my guy,
Speaker 2: you lost sixty six to three. You and your team
Speaker 2: to Alabama. This is a great Alabama team. So I
Speaker 2: didn't even watch much of that game. I watched the
Speaker 2: next week against Auburn, because I think that says a
Speaker 2: lot and he'll be judged in an arbor with regards
Speaker 2: to how Michigan does against Michigan State, Penn State, Ohio State,
Speaker 2: and this year certainly Notre Dame to open up the season,
Speaker 2: and against LSU it was kind of a nightmare and
Speaker 2: obviously was wounded. But I watched that Auburn game because
Speaker 2: he threw fifty one passes and they were down something
Speaker 2: like thirty five thirty eight to three at halftime. I
Speaker 2: forgot that it got so out of hands so quickly.
Speaker 2: It was not if I were watching that through an
Speaker 2: amazing blue tinted lens, I think I would be a
Speaker 2: bit deflated, is what I'm trying to say, Like, don't
Speaker 2: I don't know that he is just I mean, he's
Speaker 2: going to start as he should because of it. I
Speaker 2: think their options right now are not great, so he
Speaker 2: should slide in. But unless the offense at Michigan, which
Speaker 2: we had offensive line issues these past couple of years,
Speaker 2: I think decent running backs, you know, a couple of
Speaker 2: intriguing wide outs, I think, but in terms of what
Speaker 2: this offense has looked like creatively and consistency wise, I'm
Speaker 2: not ready to slide in Shape Patterson and say this
Speaker 2: is a major, major deal because I don't know if
Speaker 2: I'm fully seeing it right now.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair, right, There's definitely a little bit
Speaker 1: of hopefulness on the part of Michigan fans. You know,
Speaker 1: we've often heard the expression about the backup quarterback being
Speaker 1: the most popular guy on Curtis. There's some element of
Speaker 1: that here because Shape Patterson, at least as it relates
Speaker 1: to being a Michigan football player is a great unknown.
Speaker 1: He represents I think something that could be and something
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of Michigan fans wanted the
Speaker 1: quarterback position to be under Jim Harbaugh. He just hasn't
Speaker 1: had that breakthrough yet. Now we saw Wilton Spako elsewhere.
Speaker 1: He's going to be playing some role for you. We
Speaker 1: don't know what, And I think you're right in saying
Speaker 1: that Shape Patterson represents the best option for Jim Harbaugh
Speaker 1: at this point. We'll see what he can do. He's
Speaker 1: still fairly young.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'll be his third year. He'll be a junior,
Speaker 2: a true junior.
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh does have a bit of a track record
Speaker 1: for spinning gold at the quarterback position, though we haven't
Speaker 1: seen it quite yet. In Ann Arbor, Shape Patterson probably
Speaker 1: represents the most talent that he's had since since he
Speaker 1: started at Michigan. Yeah, anyway he can do.
Speaker 2: The great news, aside from a pretty tricky schedule, is
Speaker 2: that Michigan's defense should look very good. I would assume
Speaker 2: just with the number of talented guys that have come back,
Speaker 2: how well Michigan has recruited on defense and the gold
Speaker 2: spinning part to me in college in this recent Michigan,
Speaker 2: not Stanford or San Diego or whatever. The gold spinning
Speaker 2: was probably limited to only the second half of Jake
Speaker 2: Rudock's season.
Speaker 1: Is one for a year which was and that's.
Speaker 2: Very good, and I would say somewhat unforeseen given Rudok's history.
Speaker 2: But the Wilton Spade earrow was largely dependent on defense.
Speaker 2: Last year was a mess because of injuries, but the
Speaker 2: defense was still there. So the good news for Shaye
Speaker 2: Patterson and for whoever ends up succeeding or quasi succeeding
Speaker 2: at quarterback, which I assume will be the case, is
Speaker 2: the defense should often enough put the offense in a
Speaker 2: good enough position that they get short feels that they
Speaker 2: know they're playing with leads or whatever. But my confidence
Speaker 2: in shape Patterson driving the ball downfield is not super
Speaker 2: high right now.
Speaker 1: I think I'll say this about your question. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that he's good, but I'm sure that his floor
Speaker 1: is higher than sure. Oh yeah, yeah, we've seen at
Speaker 1: Michigan in a couple of years. And I'm also sure
Speaker 1: that the parts around him at Michigan will support him
Speaker 1: better than the parts at all. Miss A lot was
Speaker 1: on his arm down there in Oxford. I think it'll
Speaker 1: be spread out a little bit. More responsibilities will be
Speaker 1: spread out more in ann Arbor than they were in Oxford.
Speaker 2: I'll twist it like this, Are we sure shape Patterson
Speaker 2: is good?
Speaker 1: No? Are we?
Speaker 2: I am sure shape Patterson is pretty good? Okay, but
Speaker 2: that may not matter given some context.
Speaker 1: All right, let me stay on the quarterback front. We've
Speaker 1: actually got a couple other ones here on the quarterback front.
Speaker 1: But are we sure dot dot dot ru that Tua
Speaker 1: Tongueavy law law is better than Jalen Hurts? Right now?
Speaker 1: This seems to be conventional wisdom because obviously he came in.
Speaker 1: He won that overtime thriller in the College Football Playoff
Speaker 1: National Championship Game. It has been assumed in the early
Speaker 1: going here in the preseason that two was gonna be
Speaker 1: gonna be the starter in Tuscaloosa. There's no reason to
Speaker 1: kind of back off that assumption. I think we're all
Speaker 1: kind of proceeding under that assumption. Sure, But if I may,
Speaker 1: if I just want to play Devil's advocate here for
Speaker 1: the hell of it, please, he played nine games in
Speaker 1: garbage time, or I should say eight games in garbage
Speaker 1: time right through seventy seven passes all last season. If
Speaker 1: it weren't for the comeback victory in overtime against Georgia
Speaker 1: in the Championship, do you think we would still be
Speaker 1: having this discussion about who's going to be starting quarterback
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 2: I think if not for Tua, there's a good chance
Speaker 2: Alabama loses that game, right agreed. So in the wake
Speaker 2: of losing because of quarterback play on the biggest possible stage,
Speaker 2: I think by now, in the middle of June, plenty
Speaker 2: of people, either with Alabama allegiances or otherwise will would
Speaker 2: have talked themselves into Tua that Jalen Hurts is good
Speaker 2: for games one through Auburn or one until Auburn, onething
Speaker 2: like that, one until Auburn, and then there's just you know,
Speaker 2: like he's just like a seven inning starter and just
Speaker 2: doesn't have this stuff to close out a game. And
Speaker 2: that's listen, Jalen Hurts had a remarkable young career. He's
Speaker 2: been incredible, right, and maybe it's a confidence issue, maybe
Speaker 2: it's been injury stuff, maybe it's you know, been the
Speaker 2: fact that and this is something too is going to
Speaker 2: be facing as well. Tua was recruited by Lane Kiffen
Speaker 2: to whatever extent, and then he had this past season
Speaker 2: was Brian Dabele, who has moved on. I think he's
Speaker 2: in Buffalo, is that right?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 2: Yet Buffalo, And now it'll be it's Mike Loxley who
Speaker 2: ascends from you know, he started there as a an analyst,
Speaker 2: an offensive analyst. Now they have a co offensive Cordner.
Speaker 2: I think it was the Penn State wide receivers coach Gaddis,
Speaker 2: Josh Gaddis. And then Danny Enos comes over and he
Speaker 2: takes over as a quarterbacks coach and like associate head
Speaker 2: coach whatever.
Speaker 1: So I'm just.
Speaker 2: Saying there are a lot of voices into his head.
Speaker 2: This is also to say he returns four out of
Speaker 2: the five offensive line well as a ridiculous backfield and
Speaker 2: has you know, Jerry Judy, DeVante Smith, whatever. But I think,
Speaker 2: what do you what is the the crux of what
Speaker 2: makes you doubt to right now?
Speaker 1: I think that I when I see a game like
Speaker 1: this like we saw in the National Championship, I hark
Speaker 1: him back to the days of Trevor Knight at Oklahoma
Speaker 1: when they beat I guess Alabama and the Sugar Bowl
Speaker 1: remember coming out of that game, Trevor Knight was all
Speaker 1: world everything. It didn't materialize for him. He was okay, right,
Speaker 1: but it didn't materialize in quite the manner that a
Speaker 1: lot expected. Now, I'm not saying Tua is the next
Speaker 1: Trevor Knight, but I'm always a little hesitant to stake
Speaker 1: too much on a singular performance. There's no denying that
Speaker 1: what he did in that National Championship game elevated Alabama
Speaker 1: to a point where they could win. Jalen Hurts was
Speaker 1: not giving them the answer in that game. So I
Speaker 1: think you're right. If it weren't for Tua coming in,
Speaker 1: we're probably talking about this in a different context, and
Speaker 1: it probably still goes to the same spot where Tua
Speaker 1: is the presumed starter. But I'm always very very hesitant
Speaker 1: to just put too much on one singular performance when,
Speaker 1: let's be honest, the previous eight games, the previous fifty
Speaker 1: throws in his career were mostly in mop up due
Speaker 1: to your garbage. Most Yeah, you know, so we got
Speaker 1: to see what he can do throughout the totality of
Speaker 1: an SEC season. A lot of other big games, certainly
Speaker 1: Alabama in the SEC West is never short on those
Speaker 1: but I guess my only hesitation would be that he
Speaker 1: doesn't quite have the experience that Jalen Hurts has. Jalen Hurts,
Speaker 1: for his part, even though he has had a couple
Speaker 1: of rough patches in the latter part of his two
Speaker 1: seasons now as quarterback, he's still been pretty good. He's
Speaker 1: still got the record.
Speaker 2: Sure if he really does not make mistakes, doesn't make
Speaker 2: mistakes for the most part.
Speaker 1: Also, if you really want to play Devil's advocate. The
Speaker 1: all time question here is whether or not Tua or
Speaker 1: Jalen really even matter in that offense sort of a little,
Speaker 1: I think earlier point, you know, I mean, having a
Speaker 1: better quarterback always matters, but there is so much ammo
Speaker 1: around them that it definitely matters less at Alabama than
Speaker 1: it would at a place like Notre Dame.
Speaker 2: Well, it also doesn't matter as much when you have
Speaker 2: to score seventeen points to.
Speaker 1: Win, sure, right right, No, across the board, across the board.
Speaker 2: So I was so Tua is well built, which I
Speaker 2: think is nice. Even though he's at six to one,
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's above five ten and a
Speaker 2: half five eleven, maybe his you know, it's always entirely possible.
Speaker 2: I'm wrong, it's almost assuredly the case. But TUA is
Speaker 2: not super battle tested, and in that National Championship game
Speaker 2: there was certainly throws in plays like I feel like
Speaker 2: when you sign up for TUA, you were signing up
Speaker 2: for the Tua experience for better or worse in obviously
Speaker 2: a lesser way at this point than Johnny Manziel the
Speaker 2: Johnny football experience, because that is a special talent. But
Speaker 2: here is the outstanding news. I think it's sort of
Speaker 2: a dual prong bit of outstanding news about TUA or
Speaker 2: whoever actually ends up starting schedule is not terrible. No,
Speaker 2: especially in the first half of the season. They opened
Speaker 2: against Louisville. Do you happen to remember who Louisville's defensive
Speaker 2: coordinator is their new defense?
Speaker 1: Oh god, they made the trade, didn't they. Well, they
Speaker 1: made the trade, but then they got rid of Peter Sermon.
Speaker 2: Hmm yeah, b v G b V I don't make
Speaker 2: me say it. Okay, So that's pretty good. That's a
Speaker 2: pretty good way to start.
Speaker 1: So you have Louisville.
Speaker 2: I don't forget where they're playing. I think it's Orlando
Speaker 2: or something. Arkansas State, Ole miss on the road text say, now,
Speaker 2: it's a Mike Elco defense with talent. Yes, I think
Speaker 2: that should be by week and it's week four, somewhat intimidating.
Speaker 2: They have the rage in Cajun's Week five, they go
Speaker 2: to Arkansas. It's a John Chavis defense. I'm not super
Speaker 2: thrilled with Arkansas right now. Missoo at Tennessee at LSU
Speaker 2: in pseudo, I mean they have a bye week between them.
Speaker 2: So it takes until that at Tennessee at LSU and
Speaker 2: then Mississippi State run late October early November until I
Speaker 2: have actual concern that a quarterback will be exposed. Whoever
Speaker 2: that quarterback is, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what I'm going to say here and then
Speaker 1: we'll move on because we've got four more of these
Speaker 1: that I think are all equally riveting. I am not sure,
Speaker 1: quite honestly, that Tua is better than Jalen Hurts, right.
Speaker 1: I do think though, because of what we've seen out
Speaker 1: of Jalen Hurts, I am sure I know what Jalen
Speaker 1: Hurts is as a quarterback, and because of that, I'm
Speaker 1: more excited about Tua. But Tua is by no means
Speaker 1: a proven commodity at this point.
Speaker 2: What I do like about Tua that I'm not positive
Speaker 2: Jalen Hurts still possesses or does possess, and he has
Speaker 2: been quite fun to watch these past couple of years
Speaker 2: for the most part because of his dual threat ability
Speaker 2: is TUA doesn't care. Tua will go down field. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not even talking about that play that the Devonte
Speaker 2: Smith ridiculous, you know, throw over covered too. I'm just
Speaker 2: I look at two and I say this, this dude
Speaker 2: is going to just gun it in. He's going to
Speaker 2: throw down field, He's going to connect, and I think
Speaker 2: he is more of a playmaker with his arm and
Speaker 2: has a fearless quality that I don't think Jalen Hurts
Speaker 2: quite possesses that. It seems like, barring some kind of
Speaker 2: fall camp melt down, I know he was sort of
Speaker 2: nicked up, had a finger issue, I think, or a
Speaker 2: hand issue over spring. I am more intrigued by his
Speaker 2: sealing than Jalen Hurts, which is crazy, Yeah, because Jalen
Speaker 2: Hurts has done nothing but lead them to the championship
Speaker 2: game in his two seasons.
Speaker 1: All right, where are we going next?
Speaker 2: Here?
Speaker 1: Your turn?
Speaker 2: All right, let's go to Are we sure? I like,
Speaker 2: you've thrown in a couple here, but I'll go to
Speaker 2: one of mine. Are we sure that Mike Gundy is
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go positive with this. Are we sure that
Speaker 2: Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State head coach, is not a top
Speaker 2: eight ish coach and the clear best head coach in
Speaker 2: the Big twelve at this point, now that theops is
Speaker 2: couch in the Big twelve, I believe that he is.
Speaker 2: Are we sure that he is not?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Basically, are we sure that he is like a second
Speaker 2: tier national head coach? And I understand that there are
Speaker 2: people that are going to say, well, you know, he's
Speaker 2: never been to the playoff, he's never been to, you know,
Speaker 2: a huge game, and certainly in twenty eleven there's a
Speaker 2: to be made that Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1: Should have been.
Speaker 2: But because of his consistency, I think they've won ten
Speaker 2: games four out of the past five seasons. He consistently
Speaker 2: develops NFL players. Oklahoma State is not in an advantageous
Speaker 2: place within their own state, let alone the conference, and
Speaker 2: certainly te Boon Pickens has poured a lot of money
Speaker 2: to that program and improved things greatly, But Oklahoma is
Speaker 2: without a doubt the headline program sure in Oklahoma, and
Speaker 2: now that Bob Stoops is gone, who was the clear
Speaker 2: answer for a very very, very long time and probably
Speaker 2: in some ways underrated as a football coach, But Mike
Speaker 2: Gundy At this point, I think there's only one other
Speaker 2: coach with this claim. That's probably Gary Patterson in the
Speaker 2: Big twelve. At this point, I think Mike Gundy has
Speaker 2: done a better job within the context of Oklahoma State
Speaker 2: without having the Mountain West runway that Gary Patterson has had.
Speaker 2: I think Mike Gundy is three and two over the
Speaker 2: last five years against TCU Oklahoma State is mind you.
Speaker 2: I think Mike Gundy, to me is crazy underrated with
Speaker 2: what he's done there and should be in conversations with
Speaker 2: the list of college football's top tier coaches.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so let's go through, first off, who the
Speaker 1: coaches are in the Big twelve to argue whether or
Speaker 1: not he's a top eight coach. I think is fair.
Speaker 1: I think you can put him in the top eight
Speaker 1: without even trying to go through all the coaches in
Speaker 1: college football. I think he's been consistent enough at a
Speaker 1: place that can be difficult to recruit to that he
Speaker 1: deserves to be in that conversation. Yea, The bigger question
Speaker 1: is is he the best in the Big twelve. So
Speaker 1: let's go through it. Let's go through it. Matt Rule
Speaker 1: at Baylor, He's better than Matt Rule at this point,
Speaker 1: more consistent longer career. Oh yeah, yeah, accomplished. Matt Campbell
Speaker 1: for sure, better than Matt Campbell. David Beatty, I'm not
Speaker 1: even going to dignify that, right, Bill Snyder, Is he
Speaker 1: better than Bill Snyder?
Speaker 2: What depends what you want to I'm judging over like
Speaker 2: the past five years, he's better. So I went back
Speaker 2: to twenty eleven so that we can even go back
Speaker 2: to twenty eleven. And Bill Snyder had a very good
Speaker 2: twenty twelve with Kansas State.
Speaker 1: I think I would say right now, I think you
Speaker 1: could argue that Bill Snyder has done more with less
Speaker 1: in spots throughout his career. Sure, but Mike the contact
Speaker 1: Bill Snyder. Yes, my guddy has been so terribly consistent
Speaker 1: at Oklahoma State. Rights tough to put Snyder in front
Speaker 1: of him. So we're gonna say Gundy, Yeah, Lincoln Riley
Speaker 1: really just getting started. If he continues on his current trajectory,
Speaker 1: he's probably the answer in a couple of years.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean that's entirely possible. But one season
Speaker 2: in without a roster, he recruited and assembled whatever. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm going with Gundy.
Speaker 1: He's better than Cliff Kingsbury. He's better than Dana Holgerson.
Speaker 1: Where it gets interesting is when you get to Tom
Speaker 1: Herman and Gary Patterson. Okay, so Tom Herman could be
Speaker 1: another guy who is eventually the answer here. Could operative
Speaker 1: word could. Hasn't done a lot yet at Texas. I
Speaker 1: think Texas is primed for big things. But that's really
Speaker 1: been the case since we started this show back in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: True, you've never tossed in the good In twenty two
Speaker 2: and nine, did they make it to the LASH Championship game?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Tom Herman could eventually be the answer here,
Speaker 1: probably isn't yet, doesn't have a long enough track record.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about Gary Patterson though, Sure, what do
Speaker 1: you want to know Mike Gundy versus Gary Patterson.
Speaker 2: So the case is Gary Patterson's recent lows have been lower.
Speaker 2: Gary Patterson was able to assemble a roster, and this
Speaker 2: is credit to Gary Patterson. This is not a knock,
Speaker 2: but it's something that Mike Gundy didn't have He was
Speaker 2: able to assemble a roster and build systems in the
Speaker 2: Mountain West, right not, you know, with the precious of
Speaker 2: the Big twelve, and had time to sort of make
Speaker 2: that transition in a very smooth, clean way, whereas Mike
Speaker 2: Gundy was sort of thrust into this role unless Miles left.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give him a slight advantage in
Speaker 2: that even down seasons, Oklahoma State is making bowl games.
Speaker 2: Now there is one clear knock I think on Mike Gundy,
Speaker 2: and in his resume, I don't believe he's won a
Speaker 2: game in Norman. I want to say he's two and
Speaker 2: twelve against Oklahoma And if we're going to espouse the
Speaker 2: theory that college football is most fun when you're just
Speaker 2: hoping your team wins regular season games, beats more rivals
Speaker 2: than nots, and whatever happens with the playoff and with
Speaker 2: bowls happens. But those are the most important things. It's
Speaker 2: hard to say he is a top tier coach when
Speaker 2: he's two and twelve against Arrival. That is where I
Speaker 2: will definitely concede ground. He's very consistent. So he's been
Speaker 2: at Oklahoma State now twelve seasons. H He only had
Speaker 2: one losing season, his first, when he went four and seven.
Speaker 2: But beyond that, he's had double digit wins six times.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of seven wins seasons in there,
Speaker 2: and by a lot, I guess I only mean three.
Speaker 2: He's won nine games a couple times, eight games once.
Speaker 2: He's been very consistent, and that's really all you can
Speaker 2: ask as a head football coach of a major college
Speaker 2: institution to be that consistent when sorry, Oklahoma State, you
Speaker 2: are sort of second fiddle to Oklahoma, sort of second
Speaker 2: fiddle to Texas in the Big twelve in terms of prominence. Sure,
Speaker 2: but to be that consistent is certainly saying something I say.
Speaker 2: As of now, you're probably right, Okay, almost definitely the
Speaker 2: best coach in the Big twelve and out recruited by
Speaker 2: at least three schools for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure. Now, the more I think about this, I
Speaker 1: don't want to just gloss over the top eight part
Speaker 1: of your question. Okay, top eight, he's borderline top eight,
Speaker 1: borderline top eight. You got a lot of coaching, ammo,
Speaker 1: in the sec you got it. Do you think coach?
Speaker 2: Do you think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach at
Speaker 2: Michigan right now than Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State. No,
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: No, but top eight, top eight's pushing it. He's a
Speaker 1: bubble team if you're cut off his top eight. A
Speaker 1: lot of coaching AMO in the SEC, a lot of
Speaker 1: coaching AMO in the Big ten, a lot of coaching
Speaker 1: AMMO in the PAC twelve, even though we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about the Pac twelve and a more negative connotation
Speaker 1: in a little bit. But top bights, top bits pushing it.
Speaker 1: He's a bubble team in that regard. Okay, fair enough,
Speaker 1: change my mind mid mid question here, Dan, Okay, I
Speaker 1: think he's a threat, a top eight threat. Fair let's
Speaker 1: stay in the Big twelve here for this next question.
Speaker 1: Another one.
Speaker 2: Actually, I've got the tweet deck up and we had
Speaker 2: a gentleman by the name of Justin Hm who wanted
Speaker 2: to talk about Kyler Murray.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put this spin on it. Okay, are
Speaker 1: we sure that Kyler Murray is worth all the emotional
Speaker 1: energy for Oklahoma fans? Wow?
Speaker 2: What a complicated way of thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Okay, college football is nothing if not an emotional game. Dan,
Speaker 1: That's why I've trace it the way I do So
Speaker 1: here's where we're at. Okay, Oklahoma fans were incredibly fortunate
Speaker 1: to have Baker Mayfield as their quarterback for the last
Speaker 1: couple of years. Baker won the Heisman, Baker took them
Speaker 1: to New Heights, obviously made the playoff, just an electric player,
Speaker 1: an incredible offense last season in Norman, record setting in
Speaker 1: many regards. Yeah, of course, so that was all in
Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley's first year. And all the while, they've had
Speaker 1: this guy, Kyler Murray, who came over from Texas A
Speaker 1: and M when that situation went boom. He's been the backup.
Speaker 1: He's been the backup and waiting. Now he kind of
Speaker 1: gets his chance to step into the limelight. He's a
Speaker 1: smaller guy than Baker Mayfield. He's listed at like five
Speaker 1: eleven one point eighty eight, one ninety somewhere in that regard.
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield wasn't your prototypical NFL starting quarterback mold either,
Speaker 1: But Kyler is is smaller. He's smaller, might be more
Speaker 1: gifted as a runner, remains to be seen how gifted
Speaker 1: he is as a thrower in comparison to Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, he's got a lot of talent, and there's
Speaker 1: great reason to be excited. The other subplot is that
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray was just drafted ninth overall by the Oakland
Speaker 1: A's and the Major League Baseball Draft. Today he signed
Speaker 1: a deal with the A's. He's going to get five
Speaker 1: million dollars and get this the right to play football,
Speaker 1: but only this season for Oklahoma. Yeah, only this season.
Speaker 1: So he's basically a one and done, which is a
Speaker 1: crazy risk by the A's. But when you layer the
Speaker 1: baseball on top of the fact that we still got
Speaker 1: a limited amount of data on this kid as a
Speaker 1: football player, he's certainly not going to grow with the
Speaker 1: Oklahoma program. He's probably an injury risk given his smaller stature.
Speaker 1: If I'm an Oklahoma fan, Dan, it almost feels like
Speaker 1: a publicity stunt. I know it isn't, but I would
Speaker 1: just be very skeptical that this whole thing is going
Speaker 1: to work.
Speaker 2: All fair and was extraordinary in high school and inconsistent
Speaker 2: but made some play as a tex A and m
Speaker 2: while he was there briefly. I think what I think,
Speaker 2: there's an assumption that because of the combination of Kyler
Speaker 2: Murray's talent, his undeniable talent, the talent around him on
Speaker 2: Oklahoma's offense, the continuity of coaches now with Lincoln Riley
Speaker 2: and the coaches around Lincoln Riley, and Lincoln Riley's brain,
Speaker 2: coupled with Kyler Murray's ability that things are just going
Speaker 2: to continue apace in Norman. What I think that does
Speaker 2: unintentionally that line of thinking is it says Baker Mayfield
Speaker 2: was like a system guy at there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of that, and I think it devalues and sort of
Speaker 2: under like under rates or whatever, or dismisses almost just
Speaker 2: how ridiculous Baker Mayfield was. Like, Lincoln Riley can come
Speaker 2: up with these plays, and he certainly did, and he
Speaker 2: can his play calling can be timely. Baker Mayfield throws
Speaker 2: a hell of a ball. Baker Mayfield did not back
Speaker 2: down from any throws, from any plays. Baker Mayfield is
Speaker 2: a generational talent for Oklahoma, as strange as it is
Speaker 2: to say, he was just mind bogglingly efficient. And so
Speaker 2: I think the line of thinking is, while somebody as
Speaker 2: talented as Kyler Murray can surely keep that going in Norman.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's the case, And I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's because he's slight of build. I
Speaker 2: would be a little bit more worried about how things
Speaker 2: transpired when it got rough at texts A and M
Speaker 2: with his offensive coaches and you know, reportedly with his
Speaker 2: dad and coaches. That to me, and certainly Baker Mayfield
Speaker 2: has you know, there are stories about Baker Mayfield's dad,
Speaker 2: sure or not, but that to me is a little
Speaker 2: bit more worrisome from Afar. Granted that we are just
Speaker 2: penciling in the empire to continue when what Baker Mayfield
Speaker 2: did is essentially impossible.
Speaker 1: Man, it is just tough when you know going in
Speaker 1: that any success you have at quarterback is going to
Speaker 1: be short lived. You know, like I guess maybe you
Speaker 1: treat it like a grad transfer. We're all kind of
Speaker 1: conditioned for that. Yeah, you just know they're going to
Speaker 1: be fans who demand total commitment to the team, you know,
Speaker 1: pick one or the other.
Speaker 2: It's tough to be that kind of pragmat at like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. No, it's it's impossible when you know,
Speaker 2: play quarterback for Oklahoma, play minor league baseball and hope
Speaker 2: because I think everybody looks at him baseball wise, and
Speaker 2: I will never pretend to be some kind of baseball scout,
Speaker 2: but they look at him as you know, unbelievable athleticism
Speaker 2: and bat speed is off the charts, and you know,
Speaker 2: has taken huge strides, but still green, still a project,
Speaker 2: whereas with football there is I think he's more of
Speaker 2: a known quantity. I don't It doesn't appear that like
Speaker 2: he is going to be a first or second round
Speaker 2: NFL player, But you know who knows. It's tough though,
Speaker 2: to say, forego the glory of playing quarterback at Oklahoma
Speaker 2: versus playing you know what, does he play? Second base? Shortstop?
Speaker 1: Feel he's a center fielder.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a center fielder. Okay, so there is some
Speaker 2: glory in center field, you know, picking off home runs
Speaker 2: over the wall, whatever. But to play baseball and to
Speaker 2: look at baseball as a a moment of glory, I
Speaker 2: think it's tougher. That's you know, that's my dumb opinion.
Speaker 2: We're in our football podcast.
Speaker 1: We're in our thirties. Yes, that's true, and have never
Speaker 1: achieved any height such as this on the athletic stage.
Speaker 2: Ty you missed. It's a minute thirty three quarter mile, Tye.
Speaker 2: It's a minute thirty three, which might not sound fast
Speaker 2: to anybody listening, and that's because it's not so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan, this is a weird one.
Speaker 2: If you're an Oklahoma fan, I think you treat it
Speaker 2: like a grad transfer.
Speaker 1: I think you enjoy the ride. You hope, for Kyler's
Speaker 1: sake that doesn't blow a knee. But either way, congrats
Speaker 1: to him on getting drafted, because that's really awesome. And
Speaker 1: you know, let's just see how this all goes. Two
Speaker 1: more here, Yeah, should we just combine them? Sure, let's
Speaker 1: do it because we're running short on time. So we've
Speaker 1: got two. We've got two packed twelve related questions.
Speaker 2: The questions a manned pack twelve con.
Speaker 1: The question that I wanted to ask is is higher level?
Speaker 1: And it was are we sure that there is someone
Speaker 1: actually running the PAC twelve conference, someone actually creating a
Speaker 1: long term strategy for the PAC twelve conference?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yours was more micro in the sense you asked, are
Speaker 1: we sure that the universally lauded PAC twelve South hires
Speaker 1: not her Edwards. We're going to exclude him from this equation,
Speaker 1: but might be successful. But yeah, are we sure that
Speaker 1: Chip Kelly and Kevin someone are the home run highers
Speaker 1: that we've been led to believe, right. So I'll answer
Speaker 1: that second question by saying that I am not at
Speaker 1: all convinced that Kevin Someone's a home run higher for
Speaker 1: many of the reasons that I have mentioned over the
Speaker 1: last couple months here on the podcast. He feels a
Speaker 1: lot to me like the previous guy, like rich Rodriguez.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of overlap there, and because of that,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like he gives them a whole lot
Speaker 1: more than where they were at previously. So unless you've
Speaker 1: got a different definition of home run higher, I think
Speaker 1: he's a capable replacement, and I think a change of scenery,
Speaker 1: both for him and maybe for Rich Rod is a
Speaker 1: good thing for them Professionally. I think it'll work out
Speaker 1: just fine for Arizona. But if they end up looking
Speaker 1: exactly the way that they looked in twenty seventeen, I
Speaker 1: will not at all be surprised. For UCLA, Chip Kelly's
Speaker 1: a home run. He can go five and seven and
Speaker 1: he's still a home run. He brings more excitement to
Speaker 1: that program than anyone else they could have possibly hired.
Speaker 1: If you're UCLA, you absolutely have to take a chance
Speaker 1: and see what Chip Kelly can bring can bring the Westwood.
Speaker 1: So I'm fine. Sure, I'm fine with labeling him as
Speaker 1: a home run, but not Kevin someone.
Speaker 2: So let's do you want to start with the macro
Speaker 2: the big picture?
Speaker 1: Sure you can go ahead. All right.
Speaker 2: So is somebody running the PAC twelve maybe?
Speaker 1: Yes? Is really so? I have been.
Speaker 2: I'm a big proponent of swings and that's another that's
Speaker 2: another baseball.
Speaker 1: Term, swings. Okay, go on.
Speaker 2: So the PAC twelve has been rightly criticized for the
Speaker 2: way it's media deal has unfolded. They decided to keep
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the network, and the PAC twelve
Speaker 2: network hasn't gotten the type of distribution I think that
Speaker 2: they were hoping it would in some form with you know,
Speaker 2: direct TV and digital means and whatever. You know, a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of complaints about bigger games starting,
Speaker 2: and by complaints, I'm sort of separating it from myself.
Speaker 1: It's me. It's me complaining. It's well, so, okay, here
Speaker 1: here's what this means. What this means that what people
Speaker 1: might read about you can't get the PAC twelve network
Speaker 1: on direct TV? Correct, you still can't get it on DirecTV.
Speaker 1: They've had the network, don't believe you.
Speaker 2: Can get it on like a Roku or an Apple
Speaker 2: TV as a standalone you can get at it, you
Speaker 2: know via you know whatever service, YouTube or Hulu or
Speaker 2: something that like that.
Speaker 1: Correct, right, You're basically you're limited and it's still is
Speaker 1: stuck in a lot of craws that you can't get
Speaker 1: it on direct TV. There's a lot of finger pointing
Speaker 1: as to why that's the case. The conventional wisdom, and
Speaker 1: the one that seems to make the most sense to me,
Speaker 1: is that the PAC twelve network deployed this strategy where
Speaker 1: they were going to go out to individual cable providers,
Speaker 1: they were going to cut deals, and then by proxy,
Speaker 1: they were going to make it almost such that DirecTV
Speaker 1: had to pick them up, that they had no choice.
Speaker 1: It was everywhere else DirecTV would be missing out if
Speaker 1: they didn't. That strategy has not materialized in the way
Speaker 1: that I think the PAC twelve had envisioned, and so
Speaker 1: it comes across as a gross miscalculation.
Speaker 2: Sure, And so the miscalculation specifically is that instead of
Speaker 2: partnering with an existing network in the way that the
Speaker 2: Big ten and SEC and now AC, I think that
Speaker 2: launches next year twenty nineteen ThEC network. The ESPN with ESPN, yeah,
Speaker 2: is that they are foregoing leverage to say, you know,
Speaker 2: ESPN suddenly has you know, if ESPN has the Pack
Speaker 2: twelve network, they can say okay, unless you accept the
Speaker 2: PAC twelve network as part of a standard dealer, as
Speaker 2: part of this kind of tier direct TV, you know,
Speaker 2: we're not sure if we can do this for you
Speaker 2: or that for you. You know, obviously everybody is going to
Speaker 2: need ESPN that is a sports fan that has DirectTV,
Speaker 2: which is a company that directly tries to appeal to
Speaker 2: sports fans with their NFL Sunday ticket package and whatever,
Speaker 2: and it's a national satellite package whatever. I'm saying whatever
Speaker 2: a lot because I'm trying to get past my frustration
Speaker 2: with this. The PAC twelve though, it took a swing,
Speaker 2: it tried to do something new, it tried to get attention.
Speaker 2: It did get attention, It tried to take chances, and
Speaker 2: I am all for this, but you need to have
Speaker 2: a backup and things don't go as you know, maybe
Speaker 2: it's ESPN owns a third of it, or Fox owns
Speaker 2: a third of it, maybe it's you keep two thirds
Speaker 2: of it, whatever, so you retain a lot of creative
Speaker 2: control and distribution control or whatever. But so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate going out on a limb to do something new,
Speaker 2: but no backup plan and the fact that and I
Speaker 2: know people are going to point to the Bowl record
Speaker 2: last year that's super embarrassing. Well that's it's not it's
Speaker 2: not meaningful, but it's very public, which there is a
Speaker 2: you know, I think there is a gray area between
Speaker 2: those two things. So I am I am positive the
Speaker 2: PAC twelve will be fine because the PAC twelve was
Speaker 2: never going to be the SEC or the Big ten
Speaker 2: or even the ACC in terms of viewer interests. They
Speaker 2: just need to do a better deal of a better
Speaker 2: job of figuring out how to get good coaches out West,
Speaker 2: which I think is a challenge on the way up,
Speaker 2: and putting their games in whether it's you know, the
Speaker 2: Friday night Thursday night thing sucks, but if you scare
Speaker 2: around it makes your teams have buys and everything like that.
Speaker 1: It works.
Speaker 2: You need to get your team's attention. You need to
Speaker 2: market these games, and especially when you have a ranked
Speaker 2: Stanford against a ranked UCLA, a ranked organ against a
Speaker 2: ranked Washington, a ranked USC against a ranked ASU, you
Speaker 2: need to do a better job of not just putting
Speaker 2: it at ten forty five Eastern on a Thursday. That
Speaker 2: can never ever happen. There needs to be outs to
Speaker 2: the scheduling.
Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you this. I'll follow this up. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no denying because of the time zone issue that
Speaker 1: the PAC twelve is put at a disadvantage, that is
Speaker 1: a built in disadvantage.
Speaker 2: And it's it's smaller alumni bases.
Speaker 1: A smaller alumni bases. There are a couple things working,
Speaker 1: a couple of headwinds there working against the PAC twelve.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like their inability to maybe grow the
Speaker 1: brand is due to leadership or do more to logistical
Speaker 1: issues things that are beyond their control, like we've referenced here.
Speaker 2: So it's I mean, it's always going to be column A,
Speaker 2: columnbe column C. I think the thing that's probably hurt
Speaker 2: the PAC twelve the most is that on the biggest stages,
Speaker 2: and I'm not talking about the Holiday Bowl or something
Speaker 2: like that. I'm talking USC, Alabama, Oregon, LSU at the
Speaker 2: beginning of the season, Oregon fading the back half of
Speaker 2: the Mark Helfridge era, Washington being really good, but difficult
Speaker 2: to market, I would say, is that fair?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Style of play is just very efficient to nothing, you
Speaker 2: know too electric UCLA being down as long as they have,
Speaker 2: the Arizona schools never really breaking through. I would say
Speaker 2: realignment hasn't been the best for the Pac twelve. That's
Speaker 2: a whole other thing. Ty if we could add, like
Speaker 2: a bonus question, are we sure realignment has been exciting
Speaker 2: for college football?
Speaker 1: Totally a totally different question, but sure.
Speaker 2: But for the Pac twelve specific, Colorado and Utah have
Speaker 2: not driven national or even huge regional interest. So I
Speaker 2: think it's a combination of all of these things. The
Speaker 2: quickest way for the Pac twelve to see an uptick
Speaker 2: in attention and ratings, and you know, how to market themselves.
Speaker 2: You've got to win big games on big stages and
Speaker 2: make people aware of your brand as something impressive and
Speaker 2: worth watching. In Oregon did a good job of that,
Speaker 2: USC did a phenomenal job of that for about six, seven,
Speaker 2: eight years. But beyond that, the PAC twelve's margin for
Speaker 2: error when it comes to attention and viability is so
Speaker 2: much thinner than everybody else's in terms of Power five conference.
Speaker 1: I would agree with that and I think because of that,
Speaker 1: you need to come up with, as you put it,
Speaker 1: a backup plan where you basically just flood the market.
Speaker 1: You know, they've got all sorts of Silicon Valley tie
Speaker 1: in as being where they are. Put your games on YouTube.
Speaker 1: I understand that might not be profitable, but find a
Speaker 1: way to do it. Just get it out there so
Speaker 1: that people have something to watch. I think if you
Speaker 1: take another chance, bet on where we're headed as media consumers,
Speaker 1: bet on streaming, bet on cool things that maybe aren't
Speaker 1: being tried elsewhere, Just to try and position yourself as
Speaker 1: a conference as a forward leaning thing.
Speaker 2: Do you watch YouTube on your TV? Not talking YouTube TV,
Speaker 2: which I know you have, right, I'm talking specifically, will
Speaker 2: you watch like hot ones or whatever on your TV?
Speaker 1: Generally? Know? I do?
Speaker 2: Okay every day? Okay, I think things are going there
Speaker 2: more and more. I just got a new TV, right.
Speaker 1: I just got a new TV. I don't think because
Speaker 1: I don't watch YouTube, I don't think that's a representative sample.
Speaker 1: I think it's getting easier to stream that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and at a minimum, people are way more comfortable with
Speaker 1: it now than they were three years ago. It is
Speaker 1: the direction that things are headed. So if you're the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve, really, if you're anybody to enable that kind
Speaker 1: of distribution, I think works in your favor. I don't
Speaker 1: know why, how do you like YouTube TV? But I
Speaker 1: love it. I love it. I could be done a
Speaker 1: season with it. Yet, yeah I did a season with
Speaker 1: it last year.
Speaker 2: You did it last year? Quality would like that. There
Speaker 2: was no like ground grading of I could be there.
Speaker 1: I could be there, chief evangelist for the problem.
Speaker 2: What was the lag time between what you saw on
Speaker 2: your screen and what you saw on Twitter?
Speaker 1: A little difficult, A little difficult about I found that
Speaker 1: to be the case. I had Sling TV for a season.
Speaker 1: It was the same about fifteen seconds. But that's not
Speaker 1: terrible in general. In general, and this is no disrespect
Speaker 1: to our friends on Twitter. It doesn't add as much
Speaker 1: to the experience as I think people on Twitter would
Speaker 1: love to believe. Sure, that's fair. You just can't. You
Speaker 1: can't watch Twitter simultaneous to again, yeah the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to because I like seeing thing that
Speaker 2: it's not about reacting. At the same time, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: look at this ridiculous flip into the end zone from
Speaker 2: Marshall UCF You know, I like having Twitter open so
Speaker 2: I can sort of scan across, whether for visual things
Speaker 2: or injuries or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's a really good news feed.
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, like if everybody's watching Oklahoma
Speaker 2: Texas and everybody starts screaming about, you know, a ridiculous
Speaker 2: puna Ford pick six or something like that, that it's
Speaker 2: kind of a bummer, not a not a deterrence, but
Speaker 2: kind of a bummer.
Speaker 1: It is kind of a bummer. It's going to require
Speaker 1: a bit of a behavior change, but I think I
Speaker 1: already adapted to it. The National Championship being a good example.
Speaker 1: Just close the laptop for a little bit, watch broadcast.
Speaker 1: Really take it in. Don't be distracted by what's going
Speaker 1: on in the computer monitor or the phone of the iPad.
Speaker 2: Like some kind of human being tied up.
Speaker 1: Yep, you know it.
Speaker 2: Get back to where we started from, all right. So
Speaker 2: that that that's the PAC twelve. So I guess our
Speaker 2: conclusion here is that, yes, someone's running it. Were sketchy
Speaker 2: on the backup plan, and at least me and I'm
Speaker 2: sure you would like to see them come up with
Speaker 2: something more of a forward leaning strategy. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't think the TV deals are up anytime soon,
Speaker 2: so I don't know how exactly they can pivot.
Speaker 1: I know they just hired somebody.
Speaker 2: They I saw a short interview I think it was
Speaker 2: with John Wilner from the San Jose Mercury News. They
Speaker 2: hired somebody to sort of take over content, and a
Speaker 2: lot of people feel very good about that. I don't
Speaker 2: know it came from the like the Oprah network, the
Speaker 2: owned network, I don't know. They're on Direct TV, I think,
Speaker 2: so hopefully that's a worthwhile hire. As for the micro.
Speaker 1: Tie, yeah, let's talk about it. And also we're.
Speaker 2: Selling micro ties in the merch store right As for
Speaker 2: the micro the reason why I'm asking the question, you know,
Speaker 2: our Chip Kelly and Kevin someone the you know, these
Speaker 2: lauded home run hires that it appears that they are
Speaker 2: the reason I ask we're not getting them choosing to
Speaker 2: be where they are. Chip Kelly would choose to be
Speaker 2: in the NFL, Kevin Someone is. It's certainly a step
Speaker 2: down from texts A and M to Arizona. And I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people were speculating that he was
Speaker 2: going to and should have taken a year off. I
Speaker 2: know people were, you know, there were reports of him
Speaker 2: interviewing with bigger jobs than Arizona. So there is a
Speaker 2: sense to me that these two coaches I obviously identify
Speaker 2: and it's a huge part of their entire identity as
Speaker 2: being major football coaches. But I don't know that it's
Speaker 2: necessarily a winning formula that they are going to places
Speaker 2: that will hire them, right, Okay, not the other way,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like any country club that's
Speaker 2: willing to make me a member isn't worth you know
Speaker 2: that kind of like old grouchow marks thing that this is.
Speaker 2: You know, Chip Kelly at UCLA is a different phase
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly than Oregon chip Kelly. And I'm hoping that's
Speaker 2: not the case because I've loved watching his offenses with
Speaker 2: a great passion and hope I can still watch them.
Speaker 2: And Kevin Somelan, if he had his brothers, would be
Speaker 2: at a bigger place than Arizona. And I think the
Speaker 2: this is me being bitter about something. I why couldn't
Speaker 2: they hire ken Neomadolola. I am still bitter because I
Speaker 2: really think that Arizona cave to short term thinking and
Speaker 2: these are both basketball schools that need to think about
Speaker 2: things in a different way, and Arizona just didn't.
Speaker 1: They did. It's the exactly the same. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: That's that's why I'm a little blase on it. I
Speaker 1: like Kevin someone and I like rich Rot. I just
Speaker 1: don't know if replacing one with the other is going
Speaker 1: to move your program forward in any real way. The
Speaker 1: Chip Kelly thing, I'll just come back to what I
Speaker 1: said earlier. Chip Kelly is a home run higher for
Speaker 1: that program, I hope. So he's a home run higher.
Speaker 1: He's a home run higher because he injects he infuses
Speaker 1: an excitement into that football program that we haven't seen
Speaker 1: in a long time. Maybe ever. So who knows if
Speaker 1: it goes busts. Who knows if he is still at
Speaker 1: UCLA in another five years. But I think the short term,
Speaker 1: for the short term, to get him to get a
Speaker 1: name like that and what he represents on the college
Speaker 1: level is very exciting. So I don't see how you
Speaker 1: could look at that any other way.
Speaker 2: The big thing is does he view himself now because
Speaker 2: he's been sort of forced to into it the same
Speaker 2: way that Nick Saban looks at himself, although he did
Speaker 2: things voluntarily. You know what, what I do and how
Speaker 2: I operate, and the type of control I like to
Speaker 2: have over a program perhaps works better with eighteen to
Speaker 2: twenty two year olds than NFL players. H R Has
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly made peace with that possibility. Probably, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Probably not, Okay, So I think that's important. Probably not.
Speaker 2: I think that's a tough realization to come to. And
Speaker 2: if you're a competitive guy, if you've been at the
Speaker 2: highest levels of the game, it's tough to sort of
Speaker 2: force yourself back into that old box. But he's he's
Speaker 2: a very smart dude. And obviously stories have come out
Speaker 2: after his time in the NFL, players either anonymously or
Speaker 2: on the record, of sad like you tried to do this,
Speaker 2: He tried to do that, He tried, you know, wanted
Speaker 2: us to pee every fourteen minutes, and you know was
Speaker 2: involved in this and then tried to become a GM.
Speaker 2: And there is a good chance that that type of control,
Speaker 2: like having those types of fingerprints on a program or
Speaker 2: a team, he probably realizes that that way of coaching
Speaker 2: is better off in college than in the NFL. And
Speaker 2: people talked about that with Jim Harbaugh too, that he
Speaker 2: wear people down, that sometimes it's just more difficult to
Speaker 2: only worry about coaching than it is to fully immerse
Speaker 2: yourself in the infrastructure of basically a small company. No,
Speaker 2: that's my doubts. That's my doubt is that Chip Kelly
Speaker 2: has not made peace with that yet.
Speaker 1: Fair enough. Well, there you go. So we covered about
Speaker 1: five and a half big tough tracks here. Covered a
Speaker 1: couple quarterback situations Shaye Patterson Tua and Jalen Hurts down
Speaker 1: at Alabama, as well as Kyler Murray and what he
Speaker 1: brings to the table now for Oklahoma. Also talked about
Speaker 1: Mike Gundy on the coaching front, and then close it
Speaker 1: out with the PAC twelve. That sounds all that sounds
Speaker 1: like what we did absolutely So on that note, we
Speaker 1: made kind of an announcement here, an impromptu announcement. The
Speaker 1: live show in Chicago will be on August the eleventh.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for details on where. We actually don't knowwhere yet,
Speaker 1: so as soon as we find out that information will
Speaker 1: be sure to let you know. But keep in mind
Speaker 1: and at some point in the next couple months, we'll
Speaker 1: be putting tickets up for sale. We're also going to
Speaker 1: be putting shirts and some other merchandise up for sale here, Yes,
Speaker 1: in short order, as part of our new store experience,
Speaker 1: which we'll then usher in our new website experience, which
Speaker 1: should hopefully give all of our listeners in the verbalerhood
Speaker 1: an easier way to access all the stuff that they
Speaker 1: care about on the podcast.
Speaker 2: You've covered a tie two months from now, hopefully I
Speaker 2: see you before then.
Speaker 1: We will for sure. We've got other fun shows that
Speaker 1: are that are foot. We're ready starting to plan them out.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about the one for next week.
Speaker 2: Oh man, next week's gonna be a good one. Controversial,
Speaker 2: I feel.
Speaker 1: Like controversial, but I think it'll be fun. Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Anything else? Did I leave anything out?
Speaker 2: Dan?
Speaker 1: No, I think you hit it.
Speaker 2: I think you, uh, you were pretty thorough with it.
Speaker 2: And next stop one thirty two, one two, I'm going
Speaker 2: to hit that one thirty two baby.
Speaker 1: All right. We'll keep us posted yep on here, on Twitter,
Speaker 1: wherever the Verbowlers are, that's where you can find us.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to look us up on Facebook, on Twitter,
Speaker 1: on Instagram, on Reddit, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, tune
Speaker 1: in all the usual hotspots. Wherever you can find a
Speaker 1: fine podcast, you can find salverbal in the meantime for
Speaker 1: that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for
Speaker 1: myself Ti hilden Brandt will catch you all of the week.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, stay solid, Pace,