1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Hey and Samantha rock stuff. I've never told you productive 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: I heard radio. 3 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: And we're talking about something that kind of had already 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: been head on. So past hosts Kristen and Caroline did 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: a great episode in two thousand and nine on women 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: in firefighting, but we thought we would take some time 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: to talk about the women within the wild land firefighting community, 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: a very specific group of people. It is a specific 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: field that has become a huge need unfortunately, especially as 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: of late. Content warning straight up, obviously we're going to 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: talk about fires, land damage, all of that. There's mention 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: of suicide, mention of mental health issues as well as 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: sexual harassment. So go ahead, and we're not getting too 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 2: much into it. We're just getting into some statistics as 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: we always do. So there's a lot happening around the world, 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: and unfortunately, some of these things are disasters that are 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: destroying lands, property and the environment overall. So, like I said, 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: Chiggorandi about all these incidents, but we also mentioned fire 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 2: and arson death and natural disasters. So with that, the 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: wildland fire fighting field has been around for quite some 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 2: time now, like most of history around the world, even 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: with its existence, it took way way longer for women 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 2: to be even a part of this field at all. 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: But before we get into all of that, we're going 25 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: to look at statistics and facts around wildland fires in general. 26 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Again it's a lot, yeah, So let's start with the 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: definition from our World and Data dot org quote. A 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: wildfire is an uncontrolled burn of vegetation, which includes the 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: burning of forest, shrublands and grasslands, savannahs and croplands. Wildfires 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: can be caused by human activity such as arson, unattended fires, 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: or the lost control of planned burns, and natural causes 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: such as lightning. The amount of wildfires in recent years 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: have substantially increased, according to the twenty twenty three World 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: Resources Institute quote. The latest data on forest fires confirms 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: what we've long feared. Forest fires are becoming more widespread, 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: burning nearly twice as much tree copper today as they 37 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: did twenty years ago. Using data from a recent study 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: by researchers at the University of Maryland, we calculated that 39 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: forest fires now result in three million more hectors of 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: tree cover loss per year compared to two thousand and one, 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: an area roughly the size of Belgium and accounted for 42 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: more than one quarter of all tree cover loss over 43 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: the past twenty years. 44 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: And an article continues, twenty twenty one was one of 45 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: the worst years for forest fires since the turn of 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: the century, causing an alarming nine point three million hectares 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: of tree cover loss globally, over one third of all 48 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: tree cover loss that occurred that year, though down from 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: the previous year. Over six point six million hectors of 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 2: tree cover was lost to force fires in twenty twenty two, 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: similar to other years over the past decades, and in 52 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, the world has already seen heightened fire activity, 53 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: including record breaking burns across Canada and catastrophic fires in Hawaii, 54 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: which we all remember so. In fact, in a recent 55 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: article written by reporter Claire Moses for The New York Times, 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: at least four point five million acres have been burned 57 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: in North America this year already. Here's a quote from 58 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: her article. So far this year, over twenty eight thousand 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: wildfires have burned more than four point five million acres 60 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: in the United States, according to the National Interagency Fire Center, 61 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: US fire activity for twenty twenty four is above the 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: average for the last decade, agency data shows, and the 63 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: resulting destruction has already mounted to more than that burned 64 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: in all of twenty twenty three, and with the expected 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: peak of this year's fire season still at least a 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: month or more away. Experts say that fires are burning 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: with a level of intensity rarely seen at this point 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: in the summer, and yet this article was written in August. Y'all. 69 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: Typically wildfire season begins in June or July and continues 70 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: on into mid fall, but some are saying that timeline 71 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: will extend, in part due to climate change. The article continues, saying, 72 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: quote experts have grown concerned about the sheer number of 73 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: fires burning in Western states this early in the season. 74 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: As of Saturday, there were eighty nine large active fires 75 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: according to the NIFC, most of them in the Pacific 76 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: Northwest in California. 77 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: The calls of wildfires vary greatly, but some of the 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: causes are as follows according to the Bureau of Indian Affairs, 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: including lightning, burning off and outcrop or underground coal seam, 80 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: campfire or bonfire smoking like cigarettes and matches, fire use 81 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: such as debris burning or burning of ditches and fields, 82 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: arson or illegal burning equipment such as vehicles and aircrafts, railroads. 83 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,119 Speaker 2: Apparently part of that as well kids or miners playing 84 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: with fire or fireworks and others and others are like 85 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: It can comput covers so many including birth announcements or 86 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: gender reveals as we remember. 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: Of course, as we said earlier, the current state of 88 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: climate change has made the wildfire situation much more severe 89 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: and concerning. Here's some information from the Environmental Defense Fund 90 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: quote climate change can make environments more susceptible to burning. 91 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: Increasing severe heat and drought due to climate change can 92 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: fuel wildfires. Hotter temperatures evaporate more moisture from soil and vegetation, 93 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: drying out trees, shrubs, and grasses, and turning leaf litter 94 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: and fallen branches into kindling. In times of drought, trees 95 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: that are stressed by a lack of water may also 96 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: become more vulnerable to insects and diseases that can weaken 97 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: or kill them, creating more fuel for fires. And in 98 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: the western US, snowpacks are shrinking and melting earlier in 99 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: the year, which makes forest more flammable by reducing the 100 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: water available for vegetation. Fire is a natural phenomenon that 101 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: serves important ecological purposes. Dead and disease plants from some 102 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: forest for example, and even helping some plants reproduce. But 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: a rapidly warming planet, along with the history of short 104 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 1: sighted forest management practices and land use decisions that push 105 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: development into the wilderness, is contributing to more destructive wildfires. 106 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: Right and some more information from the World Resource Institute 107 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: quote climate change is one of the major drivers of 108 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: increasing fire activities. Extreme heat waves are already five times 109 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: more likely today than they were one hundred and fifty 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: years ago, and are expected to become even more frequent 111 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: as a planet continues to warm. Horder temperatures dry out 112 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: the landscape and help create the perfect environment for large, 113 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: more frequent forest fires. This in turn leads to higher 114 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: emissions from forest fires, further exacerbating climate change and contributing 115 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: to more fires as part of a fire climate feedback loop. Yeah, 116 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 2: so in this we were having this hile conversation about 117 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: the fact that this is a whole cycle that's causing 118 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: more and more chaos. We've talked about this before about 119 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: the cause and effects of some things, and force fires 120 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: is right in the middle of that. So there's different 121 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: research of methods for trying to bring a solution to 122 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: the problem of the increased wildfires, and much of that 123 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: is being done through actual wildland firefighters. Yes. 124 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: For some context, Here are some of the differences between 125 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: wildland firefighters versus structural firefighters from palaschianews dot com. The 126 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: training and education of each are different. Quote. The first 127 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: notable difference between structure and wildland firefighting is their disparate 128 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: training and education methods. While both groups must receive extensive training, 129 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: the biggest differences in the techniques required to deal with 130 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: hazardous fires and their requirements are worlds apart. For example, 131 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: a wildland firefighter must have a post secondary education, past 132 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: various written and physical test, have a red card certification 133 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: that allows them to perform duties as a wildland firefighter, 134 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: and have experience working in rough terrain. On the other hand, 135 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: structural firefighters must go through various written and physical tests, 136 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: pass several interviews, and have Emergency Medical Technician AMT certification. 137 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: Right. So, equipment and a PPE are also different. For 138 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: wildland firefighters, items like line gear, chainsaws, campus and GPS 139 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: are a must, while items like self containing breeding apparatus, 140 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: scuba and access are used for structural firefighters. So when 141 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: we talk about structural firefighters, we're talking about, you know, firefighters. 142 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: That's what we regularly think the ones on the calendar, 143 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: Just kidding. It's also noted that being on duty for 144 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: structural firefighters is all year long, while for most wildlin 145 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: firefighters it is seasonal, as well as the fact that 146 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: containing a wildfire versus a structural fire uses very different methods, 147 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: such as wildlind fire fighters having to create quote, fire 148 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: lines by cutting down trees and digging up grass in 149 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: the path of the fire to stop it from spreading. 150 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: Stuff like that. And also we're going to talk about 151 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: some of the specialized units within wildland firefighters which make 152 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: them different as well. Okay, now we got that down, 153 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the history of wildland firefighters for just 154 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: a minute. Bear with us. It was in eighteen eighty 155 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: five that the wildland fire Control program was initiated, and 156 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: throughout history there had been a long conversation of fire 157 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: suppression versus fire control. When we mentioned earlier, how that 158 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: debate really may have cost how we handled and how 159 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: the environment had made more problems because we didn't handle 160 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: it so well. This is a part of this conversation 161 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 2: though suppression versus control. So initially it was thought that 162 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: complete fire suppression was the answer. In fact, there was 163 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: a debate again within the community about whether or not 164 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: complete suppression was the only answer and that control fire 165 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: could be of benefit. But after the nineteen ten fire, 166 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: which burned millions of acres and killed at least ninety people, 167 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: with a majority of them being firefighters, many of them 168 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: moved to complete suppression. It was in nineteen ten that 169 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: they passed the largest budget to quote institutionalize and professionalized 170 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: fire suppression. And this is according to the National Interagency 171 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: Fire Center or THEFC, and it wouldn't be until the 172 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: seventies they would change it from fire control suppression to 173 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: fire management due to allowing for more flexible process of 174 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: quote appropriate suppression actions, which could have quote range from 175 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: fully suppressing a fire to confining a fire within a 176 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: certain area under predetermined conditions. As they figured out the 177 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: complete exclusion could be hindering the ecosystem's natural process of regeneration. 178 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: So it's kind of the debate of like, it's not 179 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: all bad, even though it seems very scary. Okay, yes 180 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: we did. Now with all of that, let's talk about 181 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: the women. When did the women start being a part 182 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: of this conversation? Well, the first ever noted women to 183 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: be part of the wildland fire crew were actually just 184 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: known as Missus Durham and her friend Missus clopp and right, so, 185 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: Missus Durham was the wife of one of the rangers 186 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: of the California National Forest and because of the war 187 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: during that time, since there were not enough men in 188 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: the fire crews and they had so many wildfires at 189 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: the time, many of the crews enlisted and trained wives 190 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: for service rangers to help. And yeah, we researched a 191 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: bit more. I try to get more information. I was like, Oh, 192 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: who is this person, what she's about? What was her 193 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: first name? Couldn't find a damn thing, Like, there was 194 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: nothing other than their married names, and a pretty much 195 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: a salute thank you for helping out. I think that 196 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: was pretty much like the nineteen tens, like in war efforts, 197 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: when women were like thanks for your help, go back home, 198 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: right essentially. But I also want to note because it 199 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: was really interesting trying to get all this information about 200 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: historical first we've talked about this with Eaves and so 201 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: many other episodes. It wasn't all aligning, and some of 202 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: the first were much later, and there probably were other 203 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: women that we just don't know about or haven't been credited. 204 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: I don't know, because there was a first all women 205 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: crew that was noted to have started in the early 206 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: nineteen forties. But that's it. Like I couldn't find who 207 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: they were, where they were from, who they were with. 208 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: Maybe I looked at the wrong place. Maybe my search 209 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: engine is really tired of me, and like I can't 210 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: answer this question for you leave me alone, because I 211 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: got some like real like heavy blocks in trying to 212 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 2: find some of those answers. But there was a mention 213 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: of a crew of an all women's crew in the 214 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: nineteen forties, but I don't think they were actually paid. 215 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: M well, as we continue to do more research, it 216 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: was much later that any other women would be recognized 217 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: as being part of the wildland firefighters and be integrated 218 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: as paid staff. In nineteen seventy one, we see one 219 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: of the first women to be hired, Caroline Cara Peters, 220 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: but she was quickly fired after that. That didn't stop 221 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: her though. Here's a quote about her history from BLM 222 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: dot gov or Bureau of Land Management dot gov. 223 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: Quote. 224 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: Car first went to the press to make her case 225 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: known to the public, then contacted a lawyer and finally 226 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: made a direct appeal to the BLM. Because of growing 227 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: fire pressures at the time, women had been filling positions 228 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: such as working in dispatch and packing parachutes. However, Kara 229 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: was told that she couldn't be a forest firefighter because 230 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: it was not reasonable to expect the bureau to provide 231 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: separate sleeping accommodations and bathroom facilities for men and women 232 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: on the fire lines. Eventually, however, Cara was told that 233 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: if she could assemble twelve suitable candidates half of a 234 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: normal crew, they would begin a pilot program to test 235 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: whether women had the necessary strength and endurance. She returned 236 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: with twenty three women. 237 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: Right, so when we say she was fired quickly, we 238 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 2: mean four hours after she was hired. She was hired 239 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: like it was so quick, Like they were like, oh, 240 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: we made a mistake, You're gone. So she and the 241 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: other ladies were not only able to train and pass 242 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: without any trouble, but soon she and her team would 243 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 2: go on to work alongside with other firefighters at the 244 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: Wickersham Dome fire around Fairbanks, becoming one of the first 245 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: to do so in BLM history. Again, I want to 246 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: put this asterisk here, we're saying first very loosely because 247 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: there could be others that we don't know about. Like 248 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: I said, there's still a lot of information. I'm like, 249 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: there's gotta be more that we just don't know. So 250 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: who knows. We might find more information later in time. 251 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: So some of this might sound like because we won't 252 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: say the first, that's just the asterisk that we're always 253 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: placing in because we know history is ever growing and 254 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: we're finding out new things, So, you know, just so 255 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: do we put that there? And just because here's a 256 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: quote from a nineteen seventy one article from the crew 257 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: chief at the time. Quote, the women competed successfully with 258 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: the men and in fact were superior in many respects 259 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: as far as our physical capabilities. All were capable of 260 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 2: handling the job and did like He was thoroughly impressed. 261 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: Even though varsity like nasinks. 262 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: The ladies the ladiest, And soon after we had other 263 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: ladies taking a step further into the field by becoming 264 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: some of the first women to be on hot shot crewise. 265 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Hot shot crews are interagency hot shot crews are highly 266 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: trained wildland fire crews that are specialized workers trained to 267 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: lead and be on hand for all phases of a fire. 268 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: Here's a specific description from the Forest Services site. Interagency 269 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: hot Shot Crews hiic's, commonly called hot shots or hot 270 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: shot crews, are highly trained, specialized wild and fire hand 271 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,359 Speaker 1: crews that perform some of the most demanding and hazardous 272 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: tasks in wild and firefighting. Their profession requires a high 273 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: level of physical fitness and the ability to demonstrate a 274 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: extensive knowledge of fire behavior, with the ability to develop 275 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: and implement strategy and tactics on the most complex incidents 276 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: under extreme conditions, be a high aptitude for mitigating a 277 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: risk using exemplary situational awareness and outstanding communication skills, and 278 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: see excellent leadership characteristics at all levels. Their primary mission 279 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: is to provide a safe, professional, mobile, and highly skilled 280 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: type one hand crew status for all phases of fire 281 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: management and incident operations. 282 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: So who are some of the first ladies to be 283 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: a part of this elite crew. Thanks to Amanda monte 284 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: I Hope I had said your name right, a former 285 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: fellow hotshot crew member from Oregon, and her article for 286 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: Outside online dot Com, we're able to talk about some 287 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: of these women and their works and how they are 288 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: able to break barrier so thank you. And I think 289 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: she is actually actively on a podcast too, or produces 290 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: the podcast for women and wildline firefighters. But she did 291 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: this article in these interviews after she discovered photos, all 292 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: these old photos of hot Shot members that were women, 293 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: So she went on a search and found them and 294 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: spoke to a few of them. So let's start with 295 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 2: Dana Feldman. Feldman told Monthay that she didn't know what 296 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: she was getting into originally. Here's a bit from her interview. 297 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: To be honest, if someone told me what this whole 298 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 2: fire thing would require, I would have said, oh, I 299 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: can't do that, says Dana Feldman, who worked for Baker 300 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: River Hotshots in the late nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties. 301 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: I had no idea what I was getting into, and 302 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have done it if I had. But what 303 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 2: fire taught me over and over and over again was 304 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: how to throw myself into things and just start flapping 305 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 2: my wings somewhere along the line. And though she may 306 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: have gone in without really understanding it, she definitely excelled, 307 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: even earning a performance award in her first season, and 308 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: her work was so impressive her leaders even told her 309 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: he would never have a fire crew without a woman 310 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: in it. She even became the first woman hotshot squad 311 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: boss at Baker River. She eventually left the field to 312 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: go on to become a psychotherapist, but she does talk 313 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 2: about her experience. 314 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: Then we have Sue Husari, who worked with Lawson hotshot Crew. 315 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: She was the first woman for the crew and for 316 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: the state. Hears a little bit from her interview quote. 317 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: Husori was hired to loss in a hot shot crew 318 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: in northern California in nineteen seventy six. She was the 319 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: first woman on the crew and one of the first 320 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: women on a hot shot crew in the state. I 321 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: still don't know why they decided to hire a woman. 322 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: It was very unusual, she says. Still, her experience on 323 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: Lawson was overwhelmingly positive. Hussari says she wasn't treated differently 324 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: than her male colleagues, except that her coworkers often looked 325 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: out for her, particularly because she was just twenty one 326 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: when she was hired. While she was new to the 327 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: world of wildland fire. It didn't take long for Husari 328 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: to realize that she was well suited for the rigors 329 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: of hot shotting. My best attribute for firefighting was endurance, 330 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's common for most women who do this, 331 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: she says, noting that she spent her youth in teenage 332 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: years backpacking in the Syria Nevada with her dad. I 333 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: wasn't a natural athlete, but I could hike, I could 334 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: carry heavy stuff, and I was familiar with the outdoors, 335 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: so I was good at it. 336 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: Right. And then we have a Kimberly Brandle, who was 337 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: the first woman to be hired with the Zigzag Hotshot crew, 338 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,239 Speaker 2: and she was honest about some of the challenges she 339 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: faced during her time on the crew. From her interview quote, 340 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: Randall is refreshingly honest about her first year working as 341 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: a hotshot in a world that was still a bit 342 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: unsure about having women around. It was the attitude of 343 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: a lot of men that I didn't belong there, and 344 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: that I was never going to be a part of 345 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: the group because they didn't think I belonged there, She said. 346 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: A gradual cultural shift in the fourth Service soon contributed 347 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: to more women being hired to the crew. Even still, 348 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: it took years to change the perception that women on 349 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: hotshot crews were tokens or only there to fill a quota. 350 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 2: When I started in fire fire crews were like a 351 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: pie cut into twenty pieces, and only one piece of 352 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: that pie was allocated for women were allocated for men, 353 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 2: Brittle says, but with her own hard work and abilities, 354 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: she was able to become a part of the leadership 355 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: and was able to help and bring in more women, 356 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: providing more equal space in the field. 357 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: And we have Gina Popka who became a hot shot 358 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three, but would make history by becoming 359 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: the first woman superintendent of a hot shot crew in 360 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one from Monte Quote. After beginning her career 361 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: with the Mount Hood National Forest based Zigzag hot Shots 362 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three, Papka went on to become the 363 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: country's first permanent female hot shot superintendent, the highest position 364 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: on a hot shot crew, in nineteen ninety one. Only 365 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: eleven women have since held that position, compared to more 366 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: than seven hundred men since hot shot crews were first 367 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: established in the nineteen forties, meaning just over one percent 368 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: of superintendent positions on the countries one hundred and ten 369 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: hot shot crews have been filled by a woman, And 370 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: the article continues. Popka was known for being a radically 371 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: inclusive in or hiring. She made a concerted effort to 372 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: continue Zigzag's long history of seeing the value and including 373 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: women and other marginalized people on the crew. Long before 374 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: such practices were being utilized on other crews around the country. 375 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: Popka was regularly hiring four to six women to round 376 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: out her twenty person crew, and up to eight women 377 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: when there was an influx of good applicants. Even today, 378 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: it's rare to find hot shot crews with more than 379 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: two or three women. Women sought me because I was 380 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: the only female hot shot superintendent and we were known 381 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: to be a good crew, she says, For me, it 382 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: was just giving them an opportunity to see what they 383 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: could do with themselves. Women underestimate themselves, but I knew 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: they'd do well. 385 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: I feel like it ties in with a feld. Then 386 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: when she was like, if I know, and I wouldn't 387 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: have done it right, I would have thought I could exactly, 388 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 2: So with those furs, I wanted to add one more. 389 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: And that's the first woman to become a smoke jumper. 390 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: And here's an explanation of smoke jumpers from and IFC. 391 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: Smoke jumpers are unique because of the way they reach 392 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: the fire line. They parachute from an airplane three thousand 393 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: feet above the ground. When wildfires a night in remote 394 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: and isolated locations, smoke jumpers are able to reach them 395 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: fast because they can parachute to wildfires when there are 396 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 2: no roads or trails nearby and get to work long 397 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: before anyone could hike or drive to the fire. Smoke 398 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: Jumping is a physically and mentally demanding line of work 399 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 2: that requires a broad knowledge of firefighting. Smoke Jumpers are 400 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: also heavily involved in prescribed fire management and hazardous fuels 401 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 2: reduction efforts. Smoke Jumpers are experienced wildland firefighters with expertise 402 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: in initial attack firefighting, and work with a variety of aircrafts. 403 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: And who is this incredible woman who made history we're 404 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: talking about Dann Shulman. Schulman not only had to work 405 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: to meet the industry standard at the time, but had 406 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: to push through the sexism within the industry. So here's 407 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: a quote from the National Forest dot Org. The first 408 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 2: woman smoke jumper, Dann Shulman, was higher in nineteen seventy nine, 409 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: but despite meeting the established physical fitness standards, was washed 410 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: from the program for being a few pounds under the 411 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: required weight. This was despite it being known that there 412 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 2: was several underweight men on the other bases. After filing 413 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 2: an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission complaint supported by one of 414 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: those underweight men, Deane was allowed to try again, so 415 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: long as she weighed at least one hundred and thirty 416 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 2: pounds on the first day of her appointment. This requirement 417 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: has since been lowered to one hundred and twenty pounds, 418 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: but the physical fitness standards, including one hundred and ten 419 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: pounds pack test, remained the same. In nineteen eighty one, 420 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: she completed RICKI Cheney and jumped at the McCall, Idaho 421 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: smoke Jumper Base for five years. And here's a bit 422 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: more of her story from an interview she did with 423 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: Bakersfield's Californian. In nineteen eighty one, she became a smoke 424 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 2: jumper at McCall smoke Jumper Base in Idaho. The process 425 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: of proving herself began yet again, but her intelligence, courage, stamina, 426 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: strength and knowledge of firefighting won the day. By my 427 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: fourth season, the jumpers or bragging that they had the 428 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: first woman smoke jumper, Schulmann remembered, not only has she 429 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: earned her place as a smoke jumper, she earned the 430 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: respect of her fellow jumpers. So within the article, she 431 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: spoke about the harassment she face being one of two 432 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: women that was a part of the hot shot crew 433 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: and even more so with her fighting to become a 434 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: smoke jumper. But she also talked about how she was 435 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: able to love the time she had as a smoke jumper. 436 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: Here's some more from her interview quote. In spite of it, 437 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: all the pornographic calendars, the juvenile pranks, and the institutional 438 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: barriers to women, working as a smoke jumper for five 439 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: seasons was an amazing experience, Shulman said. Underneath all this harassment, 440 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: I knew they respected me because I could keep up. 441 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: Shulman told her wrapped audience. I also knew they loved 442 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: me in a brotherly way. I felt that very deeply. 443 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: Otherwise I couldn't have been on that crew. It was 444 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: kind of magical to be in such good physical shape 445 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: and keeping up with them. She remembered, we got to 446 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: travel all over to beautiful wilderness areas the kamarade, working 447 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: forty eight hours straight on a fire, Shulman said, you 448 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: develop all that stuff that happens when groups of people 449 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: work in adverse situations together. 450 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: So there's obviously other departments I guess, or specialties within 451 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 2: the wildland firefighters inclanding, repelling, and then like fuel crew 452 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 2: and all of that, And we didn't get into every 453 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: single one of them. Apparently, it is known that the 454 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: smoke jumpers get like the most romantic size because you know, 455 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: they're jumping out of an airplane with water out of 456 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 2: the time, so they get they get some movies about them. 457 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: I think there may be an actual movie about Shulman, 458 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 2: or at least some references to her. I feel like, 459 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 2: any this would be something you would want to do 460 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 2: once upon a time. Yeah, you would have been like, yeah, 461 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: I can do this, let me try this. Of course, 462 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: these are just a few of the amazing women who 463 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: are breaking down the walls within the industry. But with that, 464 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: where are we today? Though we do see more women 465 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: in the field, it is still significantly low. So here's 466 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: a quote from a twenty twenty National Geographic article titled 467 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: the Women Battling Wildfires and Breaking Barriers in the American Wilderness. Quote. 468 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: Now more than ten thousand strong. They gather each summer, 469 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 2: mostly in the Western States, to defend national forests and 470 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: public lands. In the past, women in this male dominated 471 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 2: field have faced implicit biases, sexism, and powerful gatekeepers who 472 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: didn't make them welcome. Today, women still only make up 473 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: twelve percent of wildland firefighters, so some more recent numbers though, 474 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: have shown them that it has gone up to almost 475 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: thirteen percent. I think it kind of varies. I saw 476 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 2: one it says that like twelve point seven percent. 477 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: So E. 478 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: But the atmosphere hasn't seemed to have been very welcoming 479 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 2: even now, and many have faced some issues after starting 480 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 2: in the field. Here's a quote from a recent Force 481 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: Services article. Quote. A twenty nineteen survey by the Pacific 482 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: Northwest Research Station found seventy five percent of female wildland 483 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: firefighters felt out of place due to their gender. The 484 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: survey also revealed that one third of the employee surveyed 485 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 2: believe that personal characteristics such as race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, 486 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 2: disability status, and family caregiver status had hindered their career 487 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: advancement in wildland. 488 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: Fire and with that, the field has also had to 489 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: face their own me too movement. The issues playing the 490 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: industry became known within the field in twenty eighteen and 491 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: were addressed by the vice president of the Association for 492 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: Fire Ecology at the time. Here's a quote that you 493 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: can find under for Services quote. The resignation of United 494 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: States Forest Service Chief Tony took in March twenty eighteen 495 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: under allegations of sexual misconduct have highlighted the need for 496 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 1: our wildfire communities to build our collective capacity to confront 497 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: and address these controversial topics. Sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, and 498 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: gender discrimination is known to be widespread in many government agencies, 499 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: including the US Forest Service, National Park Service, and US military. 500 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: The United States is not alone in facing these issues. 501 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: Canada and Australia report similar trends, and the report continues 502 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: with some statistics. In twenty fifteen, an af survey with 503 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: almost three hundred and fifty respondents revealed that thirty two 504 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: percent reported observing incidents of sexual harassment in the workplace 505 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: and twenty four percent experienced it directly. Fifty four percent 506 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: reported observing gender discrimination of others in the workplace and 507 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: forty four percent reported experiencing it. Sixty four percent of 508 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: respondents who experienced sexual harassment and sixty percent who experienced 509 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: gender discrimination did not report it. 510 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: Right and again this is because a big scandal happened 511 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: with the lead chief. So that's just the reminder. But 512 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, PBS did a report with women coming 513 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: forward to about the level of harassment and insults that 514 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: they had experienced within the four services. Three of the 515 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: women interviewed stated they had been raped by fellow employees 516 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: as well. And of course these allegations, aren't you in 517 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: five In twenty fourteen, seven women wildland firefighters filed the 518 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: complaint against the Department of Agriculture quote, alleging that they 519 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: suffered job discrimination, harassment, and sexual abuse at the hands 520 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: of male coworkers and that top agency officials failed to 521 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: stop it. And this was according to Wildfire Today dot 522 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: com and Yeah. In that same article, it says September 523 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: twenty second, twenty sixteen, the House Committee on Oversight and 524 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: Government Reform her testimony from two employees about harassment and 525 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: the NPS and the USFS. Kelly Martin, fire management officer 526 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 2: at Yosemite National Park, described quote a hostile work environment 527 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 2: in Yosemite where dozens of individuals have come forward with 528 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: personal statements of demoralizing behavior to include acts of bullying, 529 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: gender biases, and favoritism. She also described sexual heal harassment 530 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: in previous jobs where she worked for the USFS. But again, 531 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: these are the only issues. What about the intersectional communities 532 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: within this field. Here's some information from a research paper 533 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: titled Gender, sexual orientation, and Ethnicity and socioeconomic factors influence 534 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: how wildland firefighters communicate their work experiences. Approximately eighty three 535 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,959 Speaker 2: point six percent of wildland firefighters are white, seventy eight 536 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: point seven percent are male, and ninety three point five 537 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: percent identify as straight. The numbers alone are fairly discouraging, 538 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 2: but within this research, they also found that the marginalized 539 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: communities were at much greater risks mentally and physically. So 540 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: here's some disturbing details within the research. Very limited research 541 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: exists that contextualizes wildland firefighters, but work on female firefighters 542 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: in Canada shows that other ring through discrimination and hostility 543 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 2: played a key role in women's experiences in the career. Likewise, 544 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: few studies directly examined the ways in which these stressors 545 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: may differentially impact minority and modulize wildland firefighters. Those that 546 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: do report trends and experiences rather than context. A quantitative 547 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: survey of wildland firefighters experiences observed significantly higher rates of 548 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: reported injury in bipock wildland firefighters than white wildland firefighters. Similarly, 549 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: they found occupational fatality for black workers was one point 550 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: three to one point five times higher than that of 551 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: white workers, and they also found that black women were 552 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: more likely to be injured than white women while working 553 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 2: in agricultural settings. 554 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: And of course the mental health issues and crises that 555 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: happen with this field are substantial. Unfortunately, the data seems 556 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: to be lacking. As you can tell, some research is 557 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: being conducted, but it does seem that a lot moarnings 558 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: to be done. Here's a bit from psychiatryonline dot org 559 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: about the whole thing. 560 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,719 Speaker 2: Quote. 561 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: A national survey of all types of firefighters conducted several 562 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: years back found that fifty five percent of firefighters reported 563 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: a history of suicidal behavior, compared with thirty two percent 564 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: of non wildlane firefighters, according to a report by Ian H. 565 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: Stanley and Moore in the August twenty eighteen Psychiatry Research 566 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: One potential explanation was that wildland firefighters reported less sense 567 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: of belongingness, such as having few friends and feeling disconnected 568 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: from other people. However, out of more than one one 569 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: hundred respondents. Only twenty were wildland firefighters, the rest being 570 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: structural firefighters. 571 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: Right and they continue. Recently, dedicated researchers, many with ties 572 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: to the wildland firefighter community, have begun to bring in 573 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: a more quantitative data on a variety of health and 574 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 2: wellness topics. Patricia O'Brien, PhD, a prior wildland firefighter who 575 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: went on to pursue a psychology degree, surveyed over twenty 576 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 2: six hundred current, former and retired wildline firefighters as part 577 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: of her dissertation. Respondents filled out a variety of mental 578 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 2: health screening measure and answered other questions about their experiences. 579 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: She presented her findings in twenty twenty one at the 580 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: Wildfire sixth Annual Human Dimensions Conference, and they were alarming. 581 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 2: Seventeen percent of wildland firefighters reported symptoms consistent with diagnosis 582 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: of depression and thirteen percent reported symptoms consistent with generalized anxiety, 583 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: and both about two to three times higher than the 584 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: general populations. The prevalence of probable post traumatic stress disorder 585 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: was nearly fourteen percent, which is four times the rate 586 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 2: in the general population. Further, less than half of the 587 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: respondents who had symptoms consistent with PTSD reported that they 588 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: had been clinically diagnosed with the disorder, highlighting that this 589 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: condition remains underdetected, unrecognized, and undertreated in a clearly at 590 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 2: risk group. More than half of the respondents reported been 591 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: drinking at least once in the past month, while twenty 592 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: two percent reported heavy drinking, and not surprisingly, cigarette use 593 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: was rare in this group, but nearly thirty seven percent 594 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: use smokeless tobacco products. 595 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,479 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, with the relatively your information, there doesn't seem to 596 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: be a whole lot of resources for wildland firefighters. The 597 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: conversation of whether or not the government should be providing 598 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: services along the lines of VA healthcare has been ongoing, 599 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: but because of the structure of the field, it seems 600 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: part of confusion is who has authority over which unit. 601 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: Right, I kind of just spreads in different areas where 602 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 2: who is under what governmental authority, So they are not 603 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 2: unifying in how they should be treated or even recognizing 604 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 2: the fact that they need to be treated. I think 605 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: also part of the conversation, and I've seen this a 606 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 2: lot when it comes to seasonal workers, even though it's seasonal. 607 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: Because of the way this goes about and not necessarily 608 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 2: because it's like it's a sale, it's a Christmas sell, 609 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 2: you know, like you know what I mean that. I 610 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: think they really do see this as less hectic, but 611 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 2: the amount of pressure I'm sure that they go through 612 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 2: is intense just in general firefighters, but because the firefighters 613 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 2: are all ongoing and often see as an emergency response continuously, 614 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: I'm wondering if that's like they're seen as civil servants 615 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: even though I would assume the four services are federal level, 616 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: but yet they still haven't gotten to the point they're like, 617 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: oh yeah, maybe we should provide some services other than 618 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 2: when they get hurt hurt. Ah. So the question is 619 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: has a culture really changed? The numbers seem like they're 620 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 2: kind of rising again, not significantly, zero point seven percent. 621 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: Looked like more attention has been brought about the need 622 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: for diversity, but again it doesn't seem to be fast 623 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: in this progression. However, there have been several initiatives that 624 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 2: have been implemented in order to bring some equal opportunities. 625 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: One of the programs out there is including the California 626 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 2: Conservation Corps or the CCC, And here's some information from 627 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 2: nineteenth News dot org. The California Conservation Corps or CCC, 628 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 2: a paid conservation of work development program for their residents 629 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: ages eighteen to twenty five. Unlike the Civilian Conservation Corps, 630 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 2: a program started under President Franklin D. Roosevelt aimed at 631 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: putting men to work in the national parts and Force, 632 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: the California version has been co ed since its launch 633 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six. However, women make up only twenty 634 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: five percent of the CORE members, depending on which of 635 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 2: the twenty four centers they are located at. The work 636 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: CCC members do range from apprenticeships in conservation, habit restoration, 637 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: and energy to emergency management assistance in fires, floods, and mudslides. 638 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: Part of the CCC's mandate is to recruit from low 639 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: income or otherwise marginalized population, providing a pathway into good jobs. 640 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: The CORE requires that participants who don't have a high 641 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: school diploma participate in the education program that allows members 642 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 2: to take classes alongside their core's work to earn one. 643 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: So even though this is not the greatest program, at 644 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 2: least it is co ed and I did see other 645 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: organizations do pull from that program to put in to 646 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 2: their own internship, so it could be a good opportunity. 647 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 2: Oh that could always be betterbellies they look at some 648 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 2: of the marginalized communities. 649 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: Yes, there are also programs like Women in Wildland Fire 650 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: which even hosts events. Here's some information from their site. 651 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: We are current and former wildland firefighters who have come 652 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: together to share the experiences of women in fire. We 653 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: aim to explore the challenges faced, highlight the progress made, 654 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: and build a community to support and assist women and 655 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: other underrepresented groups in this field. Right. 656 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 2: And not only do they put on interesting events that 657 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: the one just happened in April where they had different 658 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: speakers come through, but they also have guides on how 659 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: to apply for jobs and even give you a list 660 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 2: of jobs that are opened and help you with employment guides. 661 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: So that's good. And they have a great list of 662 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: resources and organizations to look into for more help or information, 663 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 2: so they've got some access. So they also have like 664 00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 2: some podcasts that they recommend about women in wildland firefighting. 665 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 2: So a lot of information from them, and there's several 666 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 2: more in different states have started doing different programs as well. Obviously, 667 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 2: when we're talking about states, we're talking more about the 668 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 2: Western area. I saw some for Colorado, obviously, California and Washington, 669 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 2: which is some of the big stuff that is happening 670 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 2: because we are in the season. Unfortunately, and as we 671 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 2: read in that New York Times article, it has already begun. 672 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 2: We know while land fire has been raising due to 673 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: a dude lighting his car on fire and just wanting 674 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 2: to set something on fire. And this has been a 675 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: conversation of a lot of concerns about again, what is 676 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 2: happening with the environment, what is the cause is how 677 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 2: do we stop it? The suppression conversation, the control burning 678 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 2: conversation is a lot, but it's good to know that 679 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 2: there are some good people out there doing what they can, 680 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 2: risking their lives for us. 681 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: So thank you, yes, yes, thank you, and listeners. If 682 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: you have any experience with this, whether it's you or 683 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: some you know, if you have any resources anything we 684 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: should check out, please let us know. You can email 685 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: us at stuff in your mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. 686 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, I'm on stubpodcast, or 687 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never told you. 688 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: We're on YouTube. We have a tea public store. Now 689 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get 690 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, 691 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you 692 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never told 693 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: You is protective. iHeartRadio for more podcasts or my heart Radio. 694 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: You can check out the Heart Radio at Apple podcast 695 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.