1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, summer's here and with summer comesfation drilling holes 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: in your skull to uh improve your mindset, to treat 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: the traumatic injuries, that sort of thing. Yeah, people often 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 1: think summer pools swimming, but what about creating pool in 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: your forehead? Indeed, Yeah, So we are going to rerun 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: this episode because we have a special uh hole in 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: our hearts, hole in our brains for this um for 11 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: this episode, and we hope you enjoy. And also wanted 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: to mention that if you don't know about the stud 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: it's called the NIB dot com. Uh. Emmy Dennis, a cartoonist, 14 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: has a great little bit on trepi Nation here is. 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: She even recreates one of these trepre Nations posts that 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: we talk about. Well, I'll make sure to include a 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: link to that on the landing page of this episode, 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: as well as a link to a new Forbes article 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: that came out. It has to do with three a 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: trepan skulls from the Copacabana Peninsula. And the Kitty Kaka 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Basin of Olivia and these days back somewhere between BC 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: and A thousand, uh see, so it's pretty interesting stuff. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: Will also include a link to the video we did 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: because there's a there's some particular footage that we mentioned 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: in the episode and you might be thinking, oh, I'd 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: really love to see that. You might think you would 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: love to see that, and if you would, then check 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: out the video. I'll include the link on the landing page. Indeed, 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: this episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind does in 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: fact deal with the brain, the physical aspect of the mind, 31 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: and some rather radical things that have and can be 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: done to it, like drilling a hole in it, yes, 33 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: or particularly drilling a hole in the skull to create 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: a pathway to the brain. Yes, that kind of a 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: cranial release point. Yeah. I mean, we are talking about 36 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: trepid nation, which is something that has been performed since 37 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: prehistoric times, and we'll get more into that, but it's 38 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: pretty much mostly associated with which doctors. But we're going 39 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: to talk about it today in a medical sense, historical sense, 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: and what it may or may not have to do 41 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: with Alzheimer's. Yes, um, I do want to just go 42 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: ahead and get this out of the way right now, 43 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: and we'll probably touch on this some more. But no 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: matter what you hear in this episode, do not drill 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: a hole in your skull or the skulls of anyone 46 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: you know. Um, it's a bad idea best left to 47 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: professionals that you know. We we have caution you guys 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot before. We've talked about like you get stung 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: by uh jelly fish, do not pee on yourself for others, 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: because it's not gonna work. It might actually make things worse. 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: But we are super serious when we talk about trepen nation. Um, 52 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: and we're kind of laughing about it right now. But 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: as we will go into later, people have performed self 54 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: trepennations before and we'll talk about the reasons for that. 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: But again, this is something that is uh, it's just 56 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: not something that you do. I mean, it's brain surgery, 57 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: right exactly. And uh, in a sense, the the oldest 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: form of brain surgery now when we're talking about about 59 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: trepid nation. Essentially, this is the surgical removal of bone segments, 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: often circular, but sometimes it will be a square. It varies, 61 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: but but you see a lot of circles from the 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: skull in order to treat the symptoms of real or 63 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: imagine brain maladies. It was practiced by the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, Indians, Romans, Greeks, 64 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: and the early Mesoamerican civilizations. The earliest example that has 65 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: been found of a skull with trepen nation marks goes 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: back to the beginning of the Neolithic period some ten 67 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and the procedure is still performed today, 68 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: both for medical and non medical reasons. Yeah, today doctors 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: tend to call it a craniotomy instead of trepidation, just 70 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: because trepination is kind of a for many good reasons, 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: kind of a stigmatized term, because it does just bring 72 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: to mind drilling a hole through the skull and uh, 73 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: as as we'll discussed, there's a lot of baggage that 74 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: comes with that. A lot of that baggage it does 75 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: not deserve, but some of it it does. Yeah, and 76 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: when doctors do it today, it's because there's been some 77 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: sort of head trauma and uh, some sort of injury 78 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: that now only a sort of trepination would help to 79 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: reduce swelling in the build up of blood and other 80 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: fluids which can kill brain cells. Yeah, we're talking about 81 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: epidural or subdural hematomas here. Uh. And and also portions 82 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: of the skull will be reviewed, will be removed in 83 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: order to access parts of the brain. And in those cases, 84 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: of course we're taking this brain flap off in your 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: replacing it with a titanium plate, uh, screwing it on, 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: or using some of the forum to to fix it 87 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: back in position. Yeah, And then again these are our 88 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: medical reasons for undergoing this procedure. Non medical, there there 89 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: are quite a few reasons, it turns out, through history, 90 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: and one could be a kind of symbolic trepanning, in 91 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: which you know, there's not there is a little bit 92 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: of a hole made in the head, that it's more 93 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: of a symbolic thing, a sort of third eye that 94 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: mystics might say that you know, would help to expand 95 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: your consciousness. Um, I do know that. Archaeologist Bob Arnott says, 96 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: and this isn't a new scientist article the skull doctors 97 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: that some holes were made after death as part of 98 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: a burial right or to allow removal of the brain 99 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: before mommification. And he says that in some societies people 100 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: actually wore bone ambulance little discs that were cut out 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: from the skull of a leader or a great warrior. 102 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like the the whole symbolic transaction 103 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: that happens there. If you have a little bit of 104 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: warrior or leader, perhaps you possess some of their power. Yeah, 105 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: and undoubted, undoubtedly trepid nation was used to treat various headaches, epilepsy, 106 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: mental disorders. There's even in the most basic forms of 107 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: trepid nation, with like the least medical ideas, there's still 108 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: this notion that there is an essential link between what's 109 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: going on inside the skull and the human condition and 110 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: your experience of reality, and that you can somehow adjustice, 111 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: tap into it, treat it by breaking down the barrier 112 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: between the world and the brain. Um and in this 113 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: you do see some of these ideas there in many 114 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: cases misapplied, but undoubtedly there have been holes drilled in 115 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: heads to release spirits, demons, etcetera. Yeah, the spirit and 116 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: demons things is something that that seems as though the 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: Western world has applied to what they might have deemed 118 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: as a primitive culture. Yeah, I think it's it's from 119 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: what I've read, is definitely overstated, but it's difficult for 120 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: anyone to say, no one ever drilled a hole in 121 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: the head to release the spirit or demon. But but 122 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: it is, it is over applied, and we'll get into 123 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: the details on that. It kind of gets, you know, treprenation, 124 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: gets into that weird territory that cannibalism gets into, where 125 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: there's so much myth and it's freighted with with so 126 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: much morality that it's sometimes hard to suess out the 127 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: truth from fiction. Over a historical amount of time, Yeah, 128 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: because certainly, especially really you know, Western European culture in 129 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: the over the last a few centuries, really into the 130 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: ideas of primitive, primitive people's or people who were deemed 131 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: as primitive eating each other and eating foreigners. Uh, certainly 132 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: into the idea of of some sort of a primitive 133 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: witch doctor just uh, you know, treating some sort of 134 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: malady by saying, oh, must free ghost from skull with 135 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: hammered you know, because it's just it's it's a demeaning ideas. 136 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: It limits those individuals to most primitive modes of human behavior. Yeah. 137 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: But then we have seen this in in Westerners for 138 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: a long time, this idea that you know, a Western 139 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: must be much more sophisticated. So therefore it must be 140 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: that they felt as though they were possessed by demon 141 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: and they had to let it out. But according to 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: Dr John Verano, who looked at something like ten years 143 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: of schools that we're in museums and private collections in 144 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: the U s and prow and he came to the 145 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: conclusion that there's plenty of evidence for advanced surgical skills 146 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: among the prehistoric people of the Andies. So that's for 147 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: one um. And if you start to look at this 148 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: a little bit more, then you you will stumble across 149 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: someone called Ephraim George Squire, who back in eighteen sixty 150 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: three already knew this. He already suspected this um, but 151 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: he actually had a different hypothesis of why this was, 152 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: and it didn't have anything to do with demons um. 153 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: He was an American diplomat and he was journeying across 154 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: Peru when he met Senora Zanito, who had in her 155 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: possession a skull with a perfectly square uh cut in it. 156 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: And what he notices that it had healing scar marks 157 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: and it had new bone growth, which would indicate the 158 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: person whoever inhabited that school before survived the trepid nation. Yeah, 159 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: they were healing, They were going on with their lives 160 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: despite and maybe even because of this hole. That's right. 161 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: This if you want to look more into this to 162 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: this specific example, it is from the mental fALS article headcase, 163 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: and it goes into detailing trepid nation in various ways. 164 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: And Squire, who is a rather interesting individual on his own, 165 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean, a self taught archaeologist that was sent by 166 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln to South America to deal with the guano, 167 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: the guana guano business, the guano problem, and then he 168 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: ends up immersed in this issue of of these skulls 169 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: in ancient neurosurgery. And and and at the time, you know, 170 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: we were talking about Western ideals and not what primitives, 171 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: primitive so called primitive societies did and do. Um. This 172 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: was a time where certainly that western white Westerners we 173 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: were like to view themselves as this superior species, almost 174 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: certainly a superior race, and everybody uh else was just 175 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: kind of piddling about. So the idea that ancient ancient 176 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: Meso Americans had advanced neurosurgery was kind of was a 177 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: radical idea, and in some sense it's a dangerous idea 178 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: to those who wanted to hold onto these these notions 179 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: of Western superiority. That's right, because we'll talk more about 180 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: this in a little bit. But you know, nineteenth century, 181 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: they're not having a lot of success with the procedure itself, 182 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: and it had been largely abandoned by this time. So 183 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: to think that a civilization, um, you know, five thousand 184 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: years ago, seven thousand years ago, could have carried this 185 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: out successfully seemed to fly in the face of logic. 186 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: And what Squire did is he presented, um, this this skult. 187 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: Paul Broca, who was a French or was a French 188 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: neurosurgeon and also the person for whom Broca's area in 189 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: the brain is named for, and he corroborated Squire's discovery 190 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: and said, yes, this is intentional. This looks like neurosurgery. Um. 191 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: But Broca thought it was done for primitive reasons, again 192 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: releasing the demons the ghost of the mind. And Squire said, no, 193 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: I don't think so. And he was the first, I 194 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: believe at that time, to come out and say I 195 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: think that it has more to do with perhaps combat. Yes. Um. 196 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: I should also point out that Broke also thought that 197 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: it was done almost exclusively on children. Yeah, this is 198 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: which he collaborated by saying, they look, I used a 199 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: glass instrument to to to gouge holes in the corpses 200 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: of children and adult dead adults, and I found that 201 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: it was far the far faster procedure with the child. 202 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: And therefore he concluded that it was used exclusively on children, 203 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: which was his experience with his instruments. Right. So it's 204 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: not a great way to sort of test out that hypothesis, 205 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: but that's what he came to. Um. In the meantime, 206 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: you have things like inc and pots that are showing 207 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: up depicting trepen nation, further evidence that this was happening. Um, 208 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: you have a survey of ancient inc and skulls showing 209 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: that more males than females had trepennation holes, probably because 210 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: most warriors were men. And in addition, the majority of 211 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: man made holes in the skull would occur on the 212 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: left side of the school. And the idea is that 213 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: right handed assailants, of which we know there are more of, Um, 214 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: those the blows of those assailants would land on the 215 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: left side of the school. We're talking about from a 216 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: club sword, a slingshot, Um, so that's sort of more 217 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: evidence that in this case, in the Incan's case, this 218 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: kind of trepidation was more of an e er procedure. Really, right, 219 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: you have individuals who sustained massive damage to the head. 220 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: They've essentially sustained brain trauma, and so the surgical procedure 221 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: of the day was to try to relieve that pressure. Yes, 222 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: so let's let's give it a look, see and try 223 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: to imagine what this might be. You're an Incan warrior. Yeah, 224 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm just stumbled in from the battlefield. I took a 225 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: club blow to the head. I'm in pain, I'm bleeding. 226 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: What can you do for me? Doc? Ah, Well, I 227 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: see that you might have some shards of your own 228 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: skull in your brain. We've got to pick this out. 229 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Let's clamp your head between minknees, pour some coconut juice 230 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: on your scalp, and then we've got some freshly cut 231 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: leaves that we can just put on this wound to 232 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: dull the pain. Oh, okay, that would be coca leaves. 233 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: Coco leaves exactly. And maybe you want to even have 234 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of our homemade alcohol because things are 235 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: going to get I might need that crazy. Maybe some 236 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: tobacco as well, even yes, some tobacco. I'm going to 237 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: take the sharp object. It could be perhaps a tooth 238 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: from the animal. Good. Good, sounds good. Okay, I'm gonna 239 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: cut into your skull and I'm gonna groove it around 240 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: and around this fracture you have deeper into your skull 241 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: and uh, you have a little bit more of those 242 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: cocoa leaves, by the way, and then you're going to 243 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: feel this kind of sucking feeling when this plug of 244 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: bone comes off of your brain, so rather your skull, 245 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: because it's kind of like my brain is sealed in 246 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: a in a tupperware, right, and you have just drilled 247 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: through that type of ware with your animal tooth. Yes, 248 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: but it's not over yet because I have these Greek 249 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: forceps that I've fashioned out of bamboo, and now I'm 250 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: just gonna kind of pick around the wound, wash it 251 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: out with a little bit more coconut milk, and take 252 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: out any other sort of splinters because you know you 253 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: don't want that. And I'm gonna dress it with leaves, 254 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: a plaster of pepper, lime and beetlenut. Excellent. Now, is 255 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: there any way you could you could sew things up 256 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: there as well. Oh yeah, that's a good point. That's 257 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: we should really sew you up with some bat bones 258 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: and banana fibers. Good, good before putting that dressing on. 259 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for reminding me, because that could have been really bad. Yeah, 260 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: I would have had to come back and you know, 261 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: and then that's two visits and I don't know how 262 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: my incot insurance covers those, uh, those postop visits. Also 263 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: count yourself lucky because if this were happening in the future, 264 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: in like the nineteenth century, you might be toast because 265 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: you know that coconut juice super good for keeping bacteria out, 266 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: and it turns out that that's a real killer. Yeah, 267 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: this is this touches on the really one of the 268 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: really interesting parts about it, especially when you're looking at 269 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: it from Squire's point of view in his time, because again, 270 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: Western society had pretty much abandoned trepid nation. Because despite 271 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: improving tools, you know, moving from more primitive instruments to 272 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: two instruments of metal and devices and clamps and whatnot 273 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: to put on top of the head like you see 274 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: in the woodcuts. Um, despite all these advancements, there was 275 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: still pretty high mortality rate for individuals sustaining any kind 276 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: of nursery on up into to uh the eighteen seventies 277 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: when a survey found that it's many as seventy of 278 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: neurosurgical patients died now mostly from infect mostly from infection 279 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: because there's one thing to to dig around in there, 280 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: but then everything has to heal and and it's very 281 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: susceptible to infection. Now you compare this to New Guinea 282 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: tribes and uh, you see just thirty percent of those 283 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: patients died. So obviously there's something here to keeping the 284 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: wound infection free. And you think about this too, even 285 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: like with childbirth fatalities, once things were sterilized and a 286 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: good practice was put into place that really got people 287 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: over the hump of of the actual procedure itself and 288 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, help them to heal and And here's a 289 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: great example of Wow, I um survived this Trepi nation, 290 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: but now I might pass away from an infected wound. Yeah. 291 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a champion of the little man 292 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: in a sense, because the squire ended up end up 293 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: being the victor in this uh in this argument was indicated. Yeah, 294 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: this self taught archaeologist won over the esteemed French neurologists 295 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: broke up. So kind of like that, and it's a 296 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: champion for these the so called primitive societies that were 297 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: looked down on. H Suddenly people had to realize, Hey, 298 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: the ancient Incans, they knew what they were doing indeed, 299 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: and they were doing it in a way that was 300 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: more successful than they're more modern counterparts. All Right, we're 301 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break. Uh So when we get back, 302 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Amanda Fielding, who is best 303 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: known for performing her own trep nation. Alright, we're back, 304 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: and you know, it's easy to think at this point 305 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: in the podcast, well, all right, we've discussed some of 306 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: the ideas about wine. People would drill a hole in 307 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: the head wine tref nation was practiced wine wine is 308 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: still practiced today, and you might think, well, case club, 309 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: we've sort of we've sort of figured it out. There 310 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: are a few cases in which we need to apply 311 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: this procedure in order to deal with some sort of 312 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: injury to the to the skull in some sort of 313 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: brain trauma or some sort of neurosurgery that requires access 314 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: to the brain. There couldn't be any wacky or pseudo 315 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: scientific or controversial reason to drill a hole in your head. Well, miss, 316 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: you decided to drill a hole in your head. Maybe 317 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: you're trying to widen your consciousness. Yes, is that the 318 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: wacky reason? I think so? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, the 319 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: idea of performing trepination generally on yourself because it's hard 320 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: to find somebody to do it for you if your 321 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: whole goal is to expand human consciousness. Yeah, if it's 322 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: not an emergency medical situation, most likely the person the 323 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: surgeon is not going to perform, right. That person agreeing 324 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: to do it is probably not an actual doctor, and 325 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: you're probably not in a hospital. Yeah, you should check 326 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 1: references and look around. But yeah, I mean we are 327 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: talking about Amanda fil Fielding, who documented her own trepid 328 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: nation and this is a nineteen seventy film called Heartbeat 329 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: in the Brain. She is now seventy one years old 330 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: and is the director of the Beckley Foundation, a trust 331 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: that for over a decade has been carrying out research 332 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: into consciousness, including the use of LSD and other psychoactive substances. 333 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: She also ran for British Parliament twice on the platform 334 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: of trepid nation and these great posters but she has 335 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: that shows her with a bird on her shoulder looking 336 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: out in the distance, and then it says trepa nation 337 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: for the national health. You know, that's an interesting way 338 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: to sell trepid nation, just with sort of an abstract 339 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: bird like because I can easily imagine, and not to 340 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: poke fun at or anything, but I can imagine her 341 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: bringing up this. This is being her number one focus 342 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: point for the campaign, and in her campaign people saying, well, 343 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: we need to present that in a way that's a 344 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: little maybe a little less on the nose. Uh, maybe 345 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: no images of anyone actually drilling into their head if 346 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: we're saying more just a bird staring off in the distance. 347 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: I feel like she took both tacks though, because I 348 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: think there's another one around him, which it's the sort 349 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: of iconic image from the documentary which her head is 350 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: wrapped up and looking in the mirror. She look in 351 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: the mirror and there's some blood going down her face. Um, 352 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: so maybe she was testing out, you know, a b 353 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: situations there that she was advocating trepidation. She was saying, 354 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: we would be better off if we if we all 355 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: did this. Before we go into the wise of why 356 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: she did it, let's talk about how she did it, 357 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: because again she's filming herself. She's in the mirror. She 358 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: said in an interview with Vice magazine. I was obviously 359 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: very cautious and prepared myself very carefully. I used an 360 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: electric drill with a flat bottom and a foot pedal 361 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: and tested the drill head on the membranes of my 362 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: hands to see if it would damage the skin. The 363 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: old thing was carefully prepared. But more than anything, I 364 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: prepared myself psychologically. It's the last thing you want to do. 365 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: After I'd performed the procedure, I wrapped up my head 366 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: with a scarf, had a stake to replace iron from 367 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: the lost blood. I think almost a point by the way, 368 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: and and went to a party. It doesn't set you 369 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: back at all. It doesn't incapacity incapacitate you. It is 370 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: just a half hour operation. But in no way am 371 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: I advocating the idea of self trepnation. It should always 372 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: be carried out by members of a medical profession. So, 373 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: and that's key here again. If anyone reads this and 374 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: here's this and thinks I want to that sounds interesting, 375 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: I'd like to give that a go. The the world's 376 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: foremost trepennation advocate says, do not do this at home, 377 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: and only that. She says that, yes, she had a 378 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: change in dream pattern. She says her dreams became less anxious, 379 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: But she says, could all of that be described as 380 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: a placebo? There is, of course that possibility, and I 381 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: am very conscious of that. So she acknowledges, Yeah, I 382 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: drolled a hole in my head. I felt better for it. 383 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm aware of the placebo effect 384 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: and this could perhaps be just a psychological state for me. 385 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: So let's talk about why she did this to herself. Well, 386 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: for starters, she was the pupil of Bart Hugos, a 387 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: Dutchman who in the nineteen sixty five carried out his 388 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: own self trepi nation in order to expand his consciousness 389 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: and uh and was a huge advocate of it himself, 390 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: claiming that it was a way to essentially be high 391 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, and it's side note too, he 392 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,239 Speaker 1: named his daughter Maria Juana marijuana. Well I read that 393 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: that's he was actually kicked out of medical school because 394 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: he was a huge marijuana advocate. Yes, yeah, so I 395 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: just thought there's an interesting side note since we just 396 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: did an episode on names and how they have these 397 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of self fulfilling prophecies sometimes. Anyway, I digress, Yeah, 398 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: a very interesting character. He came up with a concept 399 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: called brain blood volume, and this is this idea that 400 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: trepanning allows the full heart beat to express itself. And 401 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: Fielding says, hey, when a baby is born, the top 402 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: of the skull is really soft and flexible, and you 403 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: have a fontanelle closing and then the skull bones closed. 404 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: And she says this inhibits the full pulsation of the heartbeat, 405 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: so it's denied its full expression of the brain, so 406 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: to speak. That loss of pulse pressure results in a 407 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: change of ratio between the two fluids and the brain 408 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: blood and cerebral spinal fluid, which is important and won't 409 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: get to that in a moment. She says, it is 410 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: blood that feeds the brain cells with what they need, 411 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: such as glucose and oxygen. That's cerebral spinal fluid removes 412 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: some of the toxic molecules. So she's saying that trepre 413 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: nation essentially works by restoring the full pulse pressure of 414 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: the heartbeat. And she has been doing some research lately 415 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: about this as it relates to Alzheimer's. But before we 416 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: get into that, I thought it would be helpful for 417 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: us to kind of give a call back to a 418 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: past episode called The Night Janitor, in which we talk 419 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: talked about the glymphatic system. Yeah, we're talking about the 420 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: glymphatic system or the glymphatic clearance pathway. It's a functional 421 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: waste clearance pathway in the mammalian central nervous system. And 422 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: this discovery really lands the feat of Danish biologists making 423 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: nater guard um. She was leading research into sleep function 424 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: at the University of Rochester's Medical school, and uh, she 425 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: didn't think everything was really stacking up and making sense 426 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: that I figured that the brain is too busy to 427 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: recycle all this energy, that there's essentially a waste disposal 428 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: problem with the human brain. Yeah, because she was looking 429 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: at the lymphatic system. So muscles um create toxic by products, right, 430 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: and those build up and then they're ushered out by 431 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: the lymphatic system. So she was thinking, I don't think 432 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: the brain can't be doing that. The brain is so 433 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: active during the day. Maybe we can look at this 434 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: at night and see what's going on in terms of 435 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: waste removal. Yeah, she suspected that the brain shared a 436 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: similar system that the muscles had, and the in o 437 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: lymphatic system offered um but instead of it's predicated on 438 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: cerebro spinal fluid in what she called the glymphatic system 439 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: with a nod to the brains glial cells, which maintain 440 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: homeostasis and protect neurons. So what she did she and 441 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: her team injected anesthetized mice with fluorescent tracers into their 442 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: cerebro spinal fluids. So this allowed them to track where 443 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: the fluid was traveling in their bodies, in their brains, 444 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: and during the mice's waking hours, that fluid barely made 445 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: it into the brain, but once sleep was induced, the 446 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: brain cells of the mice actually shrunk, and that made 447 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: way for a flood of the cerebro spinal fluid, essentially 448 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: hosing down the brain of waste with the proteins and 449 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: that the toxic byproducts and ushering them out. And here's 450 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: the weird thing. Are not weird, but very very interesting, 451 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: and humans with dementia in Alzheimer's, there's an excess of 452 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: the rains toxic byproduct beta amyloid. So that is giving 453 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: researchers a really big reason to look into cerebro spinal 454 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: fluid and see how it takes away these these byproducts. 455 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: Because the idea is that if there is a build 456 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: up well that can cause disease, it's kind of like plaque, 457 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: It's like brain plaque. So now you have Russian neuro 458 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: physiologist Uri muson Nico who believes that tref nation could 459 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: act as a kind of release valve and allow better 460 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: circulation of the cerebro spinal fluid. And he says that 461 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: as we age the proteins in the brain hard in 462 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: preventing this system from working as it should, and as 463 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: a result, the flow of both blood and cerebro spinal 464 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: fluid is reduced and impairs the delivery of oxygen and 465 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: nutrients as well as a removal of waste. Now, if 466 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm understanding this, right Fielding is actually working with that 467 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: Russian researcher and has the same beliefs about this. And 468 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, almost didn't want to even point these two 469 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: things together with the night janitor that we discussed in 470 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: the cerebrospinal fluid being attached to um the build up 471 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: of proteins and disease. But it's so interesting that this 472 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: trepin nation aspect of it would come into play. Yeah, 473 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier, you know, hesitant to 474 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: draw any lines between um, such an extreme activity as 475 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: a self trepination or even advocating self trefination and an 476 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: actual grounded science. But the way I like to look 477 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: at it is, this is an extreme view, and it's 478 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: kind of like taking the train to the end of 479 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: the line. Not everybody takes the train to the end 480 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: of the line of the tracks maybe uh maybe you know, 481 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: completely ironed out with with real science, but you can 482 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: follow the tracks. It's too far, you can go a 483 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: little too far down the line. And even someone in 484 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: an extreme position, that extreme position is going to be 485 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: in paying old with with some truths a lot of 486 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: the time. And so who knows where this exactly pans 487 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: out in the end? Yes, well, of course research is needed, 488 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: right and then the problem is hiding research funding for trefination, 489 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: and um, you know, I know that they have looked 490 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: at Alzheimer's patients before, and people who have had head 491 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: traumas and then had trepronation, and they have seen that 492 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: when they are trepinated, that the that that blood flow increases, 493 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: and then when they replace that bone fragment or they 494 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: seal it up that it reduces. So, yes, that's true, 495 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: but there's not enough research here to say, ah, yes, 496 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: this is the thing that will cure Alzheimer's or dementia. 497 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: And in fact, I think the real star of this 498 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: story is crebro spinal fluid, the fact that this is 499 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: the stuff that hosts down the works in your brain 500 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: and takes out the toxic byproducts. And then the second 501 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: real story is that happens when you sleep, So you 502 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: have to have enough sleep in order for you to 503 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: get enough of that in your brain to take away 504 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: these toxic byproducts. Now, where this where my brain goes 505 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: in all of this is is not so much imagining 506 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: a future where everybody goes to the doctor and has 507 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: a whole drilled in their head. But but where this 508 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: might lead as we understand more about the subrospinal fluid, 509 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: do we reach a point where there is some other 510 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of trans human fix in place to sort of 511 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: tweak our evolved form for operable performance, Like maybe it 512 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: ends up being something that's achieved with nanotechnology. That's true, 513 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: that's the possibility, right, Or is there a way to 514 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: induce sell shrinkage in your brain without any adverse side effects. Um, 515 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: that would allow an easier path for the fluid. I 516 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: don't know. These are all really interesting questions, UM, but 517 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: I thought what was most interesting, UM in terms of 518 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: Amanda Fielding, is that she's not entirely on board word 519 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: with the trepidation. Like she's definitely interested in pursuing it 520 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: as a path to understanding consciousness and disease, but she says, 521 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: in response to the question by advice, would you be 522 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: doing the research even if you weren't trepanned? She says, yes, 523 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: I think so. But I suppose that my personal experience 524 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: of getting trepanned, which I of course would not put 525 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: total faith in, gave me the feeling that it's worthy 526 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: of research. So again here she is sort of she's saying, yeah, 527 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: it's giving me a perspective that I want to pursue, 528 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure that it's the way to go. 529 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: M Do I think is helpful? Yeah? Yeah, she seems 530 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: for a person that that did undergo self trepination, you know, 531 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: she's she's seemed to be a very self conscious and 532 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: very grounded individual. So there you have trepidation, which, in 533 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: a very loose sense is is kind of like loosening 534 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: the belt on your brains pants. Yeah, eating a big meal, 535 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: You've been thinking a lot of thoughts that meal, and 536 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: then pop, Yeah, a little bit more room, I suppose, 537 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: a little bit more room to expand. Yeah, that's the 538 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: idea at least. Um again, it's it's kind of a 539 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: gruesome topic and sort of it was hard to look 540 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 1: at the footage. If anybody's curious, it's definitely out there. 541 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: That documentary is on YouTube and little um smatterings, not 542 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: in its entirety, but it's very interesting stuff, all right, 543 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: so they you have it trepidation in all it's uh 544 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: grizzly details and up potentially um you know, mind altering details. Yes, 545 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: we hope that we haven't caused any trepidation about trepidation 546 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: for you. If you'd like to check out more episodes 547 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind, be sure to go 548 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: to the mothership Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 549 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: That's where you'll find all the episodes, uh been podcast form, 550 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: you'll find the videos, you'll find a blog post, links 551 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: out to social media accounts you name it. And if 552 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on treport Nation or these sort 553 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: of feats of enlightenment. Let us know. You can email 554 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: us at below the Mind at how stuff works dot 555 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 556 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: Does it How stuff works dot com.