1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's still Courtney with an army of normal folks. 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: And we continue now with part two of our conversation 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: with Richard Casper. Right after these brief messages from our 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: general sponsors, let's return to Richard on his service in 5 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: a mounted infantry unit in a rock. 6 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: First, I went to two seven Marines, which is an 7 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: infantry unit. And I get there and I start working up. 8 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: I pause because I had the whole story with Harley too. 9 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: I read my Harley cross Country. That's a pretty awesome story. 10 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: I have an old soul, you know. I was like 11 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: nineteen with a Harley. All my friend had crowdra guess, 12 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: but I took that to California with me. There's a 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: hilarious story in that, me and my buddy's driving across. 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: I did twenty three hours straight at that thing. I 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to. But anyways, so I get there. 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: Did you show up with crotchrot? 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: No? I was, I was going. 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: Ty three hours on a Harley and you weren't glded. 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: Nope. 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: I was still young and you have still thoughts. 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so I get to the basis. So 22 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: this is a straight up infantry unit, like they they 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: just went to Afghanistan, they just got back and they're 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: starting to do their train up and so they look 25 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: at my yeah, yes, date like the damn supposed gown 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 2: on the Marine Corps, and they approached me. After about 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: two or three months training up with them, they say, hey, 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: there's an issue. You're not going to be able to 29 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: go to Iraq with us because we don't leave for 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: Iraq until like January or February of two thousand and seven. 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: And it looks like you get out in June of 32 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: two thousd and seven, you'll be getting out when we're 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: over there, so you can't come with us. And I 34 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: was like, okay, well can I transfer somewhere? Like can 35 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: I go to another unit that's deployed soon? And so 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: they ended up sending me the first tanks because they 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: had a toe unit, which is pretty much I went 38 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: from ground infantry and mounted infantry. So toes are just 39 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: in humbies like scouting ahead like they have toes and 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: scouts and we have a shot of toe I don't 41 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: think in Iraq since the initial invasion. So they're mounted 42 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: with Mark nineteen's and fifty cows and used to become 43 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: mounted infantry, and so I went over there with about. 44 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: Mounted infantry, meaning riding around in Humby's with machine guns 45 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: mounted on top and that kind of yep. 46 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 2: And so we still get out, we do missions. 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you roll up, you get out, you do yep. 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: So a lot of it, yeah, and a lot of 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: it was like EOD clearance, where we'd either help do 50 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: security for some people. Mainly our our whole job was 51 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: to secure the supply lines. So MSR Mobile was like 52 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: the biggest highway that ran through Iraq with all these 53 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: trucks coming on it. So we would constantly every single 54 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: day just drive up and down it, make sure nobody's 55 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: putting in IDs clear and id's. If we find them, 56 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 2: we call them EOD. We do these side missionsd EOD 57 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: like explosive device people that take a take a part 58 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: of the bombs. 59 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: So there's a crap job. 60 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, hurt Locker. That movie was about EOD, 61 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: right yeah, yeah yeah. 62 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: And so in my body does that have those big 63 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: gloves and hoods on and they literally go and how 64 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: many of those guys get blown up? 65 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: Well, uh, that's the thing. On Volentine's Day, you know, 66 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: my coming up. One of my best friends well, not 67 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: my best friend, but he was. He's one of those good, 68 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: good people, didn't drink. Has a twin brother, phenomenal guy 69 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 2: named Dan Hansen. After infantry went eod and then ended 70 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: up dying two thousand and eight during on Valentine's Day, 71 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: I got the call saying he died because he was 72 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: disarming a bomb and it went off on him. So 73 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: a lot enough, But it is a crap job to 74 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: like one. But it's such a rogue job too, to 75 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: be like, I'm gonna put on the suit that most 76 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: likely will never protect me, and I'm gonna go in 77 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: there and try to disarm this bomb so nobody else 78 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: gets hurt. 79 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: And so you're out there in these finding these things. 80 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: Yep, and I found four for sure. 81 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 82 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: I was blown up four times? 83 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: So how do you laugh? 84 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: Because, I mean, being blown up is a crazy experience. 85 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: But okay, we'll stop. Yeah, So this is a part 86 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: that I think is really important for people to grasp 87 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: before we go to the rest of your life. Yeah, 88 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: after literally twenty five years of Afghanistan, the First Rock, 89 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: Second Rock, I really, unfortunately think the public is desensitized 90 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: to all of it. I mean, you can only see 91 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: on CNN or Fox, or the empty movies that have 92 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: been made about it, American serviceman service people on patrol 93 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: and bombs going off and see pictures of destroyed humbies 94 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: that hit a roadside. It's called an IUD, right, I 95 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: AD before you start saying, well, that's just what happens, 96 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: and you forget that that's a twenty one, twenty eighteen, 97 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one, twenty two, twenty three year old kid 98 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: inside that thing. And I think we get a sensitized 99 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: to what quote getting blown up is. Can you walk 100 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: me through your whole first experience and let our listeners 101 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: understand what that really is? 102 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? And so for me because I talk about it 103 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: now for a living, and so it's easy, and I 104 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: remember like dealing my own traumas, like going over it 105 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: and being like, how do you explain it in a 106 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: short form and be okay with it by the bay 107 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: of time. It's just like I was blown up four times? 108 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 2: Like how much do you want to know about it? 109 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: I want I want people to know because I want 110 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: them to understand. Trauma is an overused word. Oh yeah, 111 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean we've got people that get talked too bad 112 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: in the breadline of All two and Kroger, and they're traumatized. 113 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: That's not trauma. That may piss you off. That may 114 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: trigger some things that make that's not trauma. Yeah, getting 115 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: blown up, that's got to be traumatic. Oh yeah, So 116 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: just tell me about the day the first explosion went off. 117 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: When you're in a humbye. 118 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: So the first time I got hit, it was November 119 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: seventeen through eighteenth. I know because I had like the 120 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 2: medical records. 121 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: How old are you? 122 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: I'm thirty nine now, but I was at the time. 123 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: Now were you well? 124 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: Because I did the Camp David thing, I was probably 125 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: twenty one how many people in four of us? 126 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: So it is. 127 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: And there's a driver yep, so there was a driver. 128 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: Actually was that the fifth one? Yeah, there's a driver 129 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: and then what they call a vehicle commander, which is 130 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: the in the passenger seat of the vehicle. And then 131 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 2: there's a gunner who's like poking his head out of 132 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 2: the humphy. 133 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: What the machine gun on? Yeah? Which is what fifty caliber? 134 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: It depends where you're at. So ours was a fifty cow. 135 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: But then some are mark nineteens would shoot the grenades. 136 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: And then some are these are heavy duty guns. 137 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, summer saws, which are light light machine guns. And 138 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: I was the dismount at the time, so I was 139 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: in the back left passer seat, right behind the driver. 140 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: What happened to the back right passenger seat. Oh, it's 141 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: where the gunner hands sit down if he needs to. 142 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: Know there's still like there's a little thing in the. 143 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: So you don't put the guys in these things. You 144 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: put for him. 145 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: Usually always four fifth if there's a squad leader, so 146 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: Eric Kormack, So the squad leader always got a corman 147 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: with them, so that would be the only one run 148 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: around with five if there was in ours, it was 149 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: like that's where you put your packs, your emerise everything else. 150 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: You get stuff back there. 151 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: So there's four of you in this humvy yep. Another 152 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: question I got, and I really want this to be 153 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: I want a visual picture. Yeah. I remember reading early 154 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: on that the American Humbies were not doing a good 155 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: job protecting service members on these things, and you guys 156 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: were actually plating them up yourself on base. Was that 157 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: going on. 158 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: The first Yeah, the first part of the war, they 159 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: were By the time we got to us, they still 160 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: weren't super effective. We still have to put like sand 161 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: bags and stuff on the floor to protect the bottom 162 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: because the bottom wasn't protected at all. But we still 163 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: had like the first I think it was the first 164 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: generation armor where the doors still had like bulletproof glass 165 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: and a little outfitting, but it was only the doors, 166 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: so it wasn't the V shaped bottoms. But yeah, the 167 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: ones that came in tyrack, a lot of them didn't 168 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: have doors on them, so they were just like no doors, 169 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: just humvy riding around, just getting vehicles out there as 170 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: quick as possible. And then slowly they started building that building. 171 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, now they have like the V bottom ones 172 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: that are like six feet off the ground and like 173 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: to shape the blast like they actually did the research 174 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: and were like, let's build equipment that would. 175 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: Hand So you're in the first generation kind of protective 176 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: of up armored. 177 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: Yeah we're still you're. 178 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: Putting sandbags on the floorboard. 179 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, well by that time we could like I was 180 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: not well. I had to put a vest and stuff 181 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 2: under my because I couldn't. I already had to break 182 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: my seat because so when I became vehicle commander a 183 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: few months or like a month after this incident, I 184 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: didn't fit with my helmet on and my MVG's on 185 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: top of that. So I had to break the passenger 186 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: seat thing and I shoved like a rod back there, 187 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: so I was like lean back and then I have 188 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: to be like like just to put my MVG's on, 189 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 2: Like I had to ride low in that thing. And 190 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: so yeah, it was hard for me. 191 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: It's not built for right, So these things are not 192 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: especially well built. They're packed full of four guys with 193 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: some rations and the empty seat probably got sandbags on 194 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: the floor or bulletproof vests on the floor. You guys 195 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: are trying to protect yourself and you're out there trying 196 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: to find bombs so your supply lines can get through unfettered. Yep, 197 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: all right, this day, that's the picture of going down 198 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: the road. 199 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. So since I was a dismount in this one, 200 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember as much as when I was vehicle 201 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: commander because I was up front watching the other three blasts. 202 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: By this time we got hit. And the only thing 203 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: I really remember about this one because I didn't pass 204 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: out on this hit. But when the bomb goes up, 205 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 2: you don't hear the bomb. You just see a flash 206 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: of light and you kind of like come to. It's 207 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: a really weird moment because I think the explosion is 208 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: so loud that you kind of like don't register it. 209 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: That was like the first one, but then there was 210 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: so much debris instead of it almost felt like the 211 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: vehicle was on fire because all that dust and smoke, 212 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: because as you imagine it blows up, there's like a 213 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: vacuum that's created. And I ended up tearing cartilage in 214 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: my chest just because my mouth was open. So the 215 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: overpressure of it in the cabin of the vehicle, because 216 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: you know where the gunner's at, there's a hole, so 217 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: air rushes in there, and I guess it rushed down 218 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 2: my lungs and expanded my lungs to a point that 219 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: torque cartilage in my chest. Like that's how bad the 220 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: blast was. But when we get out of it, and 221 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: this is another misconception, it's like where you see people 222 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: like me and you're like, you don't have a brain injury, 223 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: you don't look injured, and it's like it takes a toll. 224 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: Those things protected the shrapnel from coming in, but it 225 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: didn't protect the concussion from coming in and all this 226 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: other stuff that happened. And so everyone on that team 227 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: was there was a few concussions. They didn't actually give 228 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 2: me a concussion on that one. They just had a 229 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: torque cartilage and all that. But you're just going to 230 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: this little on base medical like Corman and saying like, hey, 231 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: here's what happened to me, and they either sign off 232 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: on it or they don't sign off on it. But 233 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: that one I don't remember near as much. 234 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: As what happened to the other three guys. 235 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: The other one, so they were just concussed. It wasn't 236 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: we get back in the vehicle the next day and 237 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: just go to work. 238 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: What did you run over it? Or was it near you? 239 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: And they remote that one. 240 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: I can't remember which what it was because the other 241 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: three I remember again since I was, I mean, I 242 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: could have been sleeping. I might have been sleeping on 243 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: that one. But the other three being a being vehicle committed, 244 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: tell me about or I didn't remember because the blast 245 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,239 Speaker 2: was so. 246 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: You tore cartilage from the concussion going down your throat. 247 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't know. I got out almost like 248 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: I was fine, because after a blast, you get out 249 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: and you look around the truck as if it feels safe, 250 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: you get out. Usually vehicle pulls up next to you, 251 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: so in case snipers come, and so like you go 252 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: assess your damage what you can do after you pull 253 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: up a little bit. And so I remember pulling up 254 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: and kind of like walking back and forth and just 255 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 2: being like, why's my chest shirt? So bit like out 256 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: of all my body, like why is my chest shirt? 257 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: And I just kept on like kind of like breathing 258 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: in and just being like what what is wrong? And 259 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: I just kind of everyone's like, hey, is everyone good 260 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: in the trucks. Wilder came over. I was like, yeah, 261 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: my chest hurts a bit, but that's it, and we 262 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: just go back on control like a little bit, but 263 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: not much. It was mainly my chest that I was 264 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: I was really suffering with and everything. Everyone's ears were ringing. 265 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: But because we were able to change out the tire, 266 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: it blew out the tires, but it didn't the it 267 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: didn't go through the block, so the humpy was still functioning, 268 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: and so we just put the new tires on there 269 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: and just kept rolling. But about thirty minutes in, they said, hey, 270 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: we're gonna go back to base just to check the 271 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: whole chess thing. And they checked on it and that's 272 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: when they said it was I don't know what the 273 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: name someone out there does castro finchitis or something like that, 274 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: where I tored cartilage in my chest. But the second blast, 275 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: it was there was a marine that was a vehicle 276 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: commander of the first vehicle, and so we run around 277 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: with four humvees with the squad leader like roughly in 278 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: the third humby. The lead vehicle commander controls our route 279 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: like we're going up MSR mobile, and he chooses where 280 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: we turn round points because you imagine if you turn 281 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: around the same spot, that's where they're going to plant 282 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: an id on your turnaround, and so you have to 283 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 2: like choose where you're going no other direction. He'd been 284 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 2: in two seven he was what two seven Marine two 285 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 2: that came over. He's lost so many people and been 286 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 2: in so many battles that he was like chewing through 287 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: his leather gloves and as anxiety was getting so bad as 288 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: being the lead vehicle commander, so I took over for him, 289 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: and that's when I got hit three more times. And 290 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: that's where like I could I remember a lot more 291 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: because I was in the front seat. But that first 292 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: blast that happened was it was they call him like 293 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: if you hear the term one thirty or one five 294 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: to five. It's the size of the shell, like a 295 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 2: shell that would be in a tank that you shoot out, 296 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: like one five to five African was like the big shell. 297 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 2: One thirties were still pretty big. And if you google 298 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: like one thirty shell military shell, you'll see how big 299 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: these things are. But they'll stack these and wrap them 300 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: up and put a detonator on instead of blown up 301 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: like two of these on your vehicle, and they'd either. 302 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: One five to five shells about the size of like 303 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: a like a it's similar. It's not as fat, but 304 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: it's about same in volume as a like a propane 305 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: gas tank for your grill. 306 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 2: One thirty is more like a I think a propane 307 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: The one fifties a little bit, a little bit even larger. 308 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: It is thinner, so imagine a bomb that big. And 309 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: then they wrap three or four and yeah. 310 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: But the one thirty is is more like the propane 311 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: tink because it's like a lot bulky or two. And 312 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: so they two they've been two of those wrapped up 313 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 2: with each other. And when I say we were blown 314 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: up this one, there's only one that was directly underneath us. 315 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: The other two were just to the side. 316 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Of us. 317 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: So this one was only a car length away from 318 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: us when it blew up on our vehicle, and that one, 319 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: that one hurt, And that one was where they talked 320 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: about my brain injury. Was like, your body moves, but 321 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: your brain stays in the same spot when it's a 322 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: cussion that big, and so the brain knocking against the 323 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: walls what causes a lot of that damage. But that 324 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: was the same way where it's like it blows up 325 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: and you're just like where am I, and you just 326 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 2: taste burnt dirt. It's weird that you just taste burnt 327 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: dirt in your mouth, and it's just you're just yelling 328 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: if everybody's okay, and you're trying to figure out what's happening, 329 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: and you need to move up, and you hear the 330 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: radio and it's just all chaos. So it's so hard 331 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: to remember those impacts. But the second one was where 332 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: I got out of the truck after we assessed the situation, 333 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: and I remember walking around and I just kept checking 334 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: my leg because I felt like I had trappedelled it. It 335 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: was one of the things where you know your keys, 336 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: you like check your pocket and then magically they're gonna 337 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: appear a five minutes later, so you check your pocket again. 338 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: I was like do I have And I'm like looking, 339 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: is there any blood blood coming out my leg I 340 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: was like no, and my legs got hurt, like they 341 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: just hurt so bad, such a sharp pain in them, 342 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: and I was like, what is this? And then I 343 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: kept checking and kept checking. It kind of like dissolved, 344 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: but the endorphins of like, cause it was the blast 345 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: that made them hurt so bad, But coming out of 346 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: it was like coming out of anything else where. It 347 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: released a bunch of endorsements. You kind of like I 348 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: have a high after being blown up. It's a really 349 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: weird thing that happens. But none of my other body 350 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: parts hurt. But that's like a testament to like our 351 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 2: chest gear that we had and everything else. Like my 352 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: body hurt a little bit, but nothing like my legs did. 353 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: And that's like one distinct thing I kept remembering because 354 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: it's like a. 355 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: Big all that concussion just going against. 356 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: Your legs yep, and so just it was and it 357 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: was my right one, which was the side that it 358 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: was on, and so it was It's crazy because again 359 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: everyone's like were you knocked out? People who were knocked 360 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: out usually know because it's a very long time. But 361 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of those where you see 362 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: it in real time in boxing where someone gets hit 363 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: and they kind of go down but they come right 364 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: back to it. They were knocked out, but they hit 365 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: the ground coming back and back up and everyone's like, 366 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: were you knocked out? I was like, honestly, don't know. 367 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: It's just you instantly react when you are conscious again. 368 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: When you're blown up, you're just not in a good 369 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: space obviously, and. 370 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: One of these things ends up with a guy right 371 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: next to you being killed. We'll be right back. 372 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: November. I was blown up the first time and talk 373 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: about these are the old Humbies where the where the 374 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: gunner sits, the metal only comes up to about like 375 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: you know, belly button high, and you're just sitting in there. 376 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: This is the time where Army had like automated fifty calves, 377 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 2: Like you could be sitting inside the Humby and have 378 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: like almost like a video game fifty cows so you're 379 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: not exposed. The Marine Corps with the hand me downs, 380 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: we still had like the metal in no way, so 381 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: your legitimate just popped out of there. 382 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: You're literally on top your torso is above it. 383 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thing is visible. And so anytime we 384 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: come up to something we think is ID, we corded 385 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: it off. So we're on this like ginormous highway three 386 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: lanes this way, three lanes this way, with like medium 387 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: in the middle, and so we see it as we're 388 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: driving up. First vehicle we drive up, we're like, hey, 389 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: ID in the road, and we go off to left, 390 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: go through the dirt, go get a better view of it. 391 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 2: And I still have video footage of me like filming 392 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: it just to make sure, like get in like the 393 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: thirty two x zoom on my little JVC camera that 394 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: I had with twenty gigabytes of data in there hard drive, 395 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: and I'd zoom in and I was like, okay, that 396 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: looks two fake. So typically if it was a very fake, 397 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: it meant like someone was checking out how we operate, 398 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: like how do we set up, Like how's this unit 399 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 2: specifically set up? Usually for a future attack, so like 400 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: testing it out. So honestly, I didn't think. I didn't 401 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: have a high sense of like something bad it's gonna happen. 402 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is them testing what we're doing. 403 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: And so I go cording off on the left side. 404 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 2: So I'm facing now traffic, and this is a very 405 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: trafficked road of just trucks and trucks and they hate 406 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 2: obviously being backed up. And so now we have a humbie. 407 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: I'm facing the traffic that's coming at me the humphie, 408 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 2: and the other side is just still pointed away in 409 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: case someone wants to come across, but they're protecting anybody 410 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: from coming that way. Then the other two of Humbhi's 411 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 2: courting the other side of the road, so off make 412 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: sure nobody comes. We have this little area secured, and 413 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: that's when we call EOD to come in with a 414 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: little like we have a robot too, a very small 415 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: one that we can first drive up to it to 416 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: test out see how fake this thing is, and if 417 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: we have any thought that it's real, we have to 418 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 2: call it EOD. We usually do it anyways, just call them. 419 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: So while we were waiting for them to come out, 420 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: and I'm like videoing this thing, and I even like 421 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: get out of my truck because we're far enough away 422 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: from it, but I get out of my I had 423 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 2: to pee. Most people are like, where do you go bathroom? 424 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: Like we just pee on the tire and so I 425 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: get out and for some reason, and I typically never 426 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: did this, I was like, I'm gonna make myself a 427 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: hard target. And I'm like peeing, but I'm swaying, just 428 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 2: like because the idea is, if there's a sniper, why 429 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 2: are they gonna take the shot on the guy who's 430 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: swaying back and forth kind of thing. Just be a 431 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: hard target. And then there's a time too where I 432 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: got my camera and I was getting back in the 433 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: truck and I was like, oh, I'm going to get 434 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: back in the truck just in case the sniper's out there. 435 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 2: And I closed my door, set it down, and now 436 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: there's a tattoo on my arm that you could see 437 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 2: that has like angel wings and a cross, and it 438 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: was only at the time it was these angel wings 439 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: in a cross with no and there was a little 440 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: thing here but no name in here. And so my 441 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 2: gunner at the time, Luke Epsen, before we even went 442 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: to war, I got this tattoo, like right before we left. 443 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 2: He's like, why do you have that sash open with 444 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: no name on it? I was like, all right, I 445 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: designed this tattoo and I wasn't sure, like I'm probably 446 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: gonna honor one of my family members who dies or 447 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 2: something like that, someone close to me. But I just 448 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: I loved the design of this and just wanted to 449 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: show my faith and everything. And he's like, uh, would 450 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: you put me on my arm if I died? I 451 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 2: was like, no, you're a boot like that. So it 452 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: was like that big brother little brother thing. I always 453 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: gave him crap and he ended up being my gunner 454 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: throughout the time that we were there, built an awesome relationship. 455 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 2: He was a back home his dad's like his dad's 456 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: a deacon now, but they were largely Catholic Christian faith 457 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 2: and he kind of lost his faith before that. But 458 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: I used to listen to even though you were't supposed 459 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: to listen to music, I'd have Christian music and country 460 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: music always playing. And so one cool thing before he passed, 461 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: he said that he was like, he's like, I'm actually 462 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: glad you're playing that because it brings me back to 463 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 2: my roots and back home and all that stuff, and 464 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 2: I feel like I found faith again kind of thing. 465 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 2: And so, but go back to that time where we 466 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 2: were sitting there and I shut the door and then 467 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 2: some cars start creeping up. So every This is the 468 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: problem with the military and the media whole thing, like 469 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: starting to Vietnam, when I mean, it was good that 470 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 2: people went over there to like for one unjust thing. 471 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: So the military they're like, hey, stop this, we're watching. 472 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: But then it got so oversaturated, and like you said, 473 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: it not only desensitizes people, it puts rules in a 474 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 2: place that probably shouldn't be there when you have your 475 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: best intentions. So the actual rules like the roes or 476 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: what you cut rules of engagement for if a vehicle 477 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: starts approaching the first step, he has these little flags. 478 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: He waves the flags. So if the vehicle keeps coming, 479 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: he's supposed to now pop a flare, because we had 480 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: little flares in there. If the vehicle keeps coming, he's 481 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: supposed to shoot in the air. If the vehicle keeps coming, 482 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 2: he's supposed to shoot at the ground in front of them. 483 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: The vehicle keeps coming, he's supposed to shoot into like 484 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 2: the top left windshield. And then they keep coming, try 485 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 2: the engine block and it finally they keep coming, You 486 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: shoot them. 487 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: Does that do all that in about four seconds? 488 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the issue with it. But it was 489 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: because if someone died and the media just portrayed it 490 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: as like, oh, this innocent person was killed. It was like, well, 491 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: they were going. We had to react to it because 492 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 2: they were coming at us, and sometimes it was a mistake, 493 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: but the other times it wasn't. So he keeps and 494 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: all I see is his feet next to me, because 495 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: legitimy imagine like you're in a truck with like the 496 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: center council. Imagine someone just putting their feet right there 497 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: next to you, and like every time you try to 498 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 2: put your elbow up, you hit his leg and you're like, oh, hey, 499 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: be cause they're just sitting there in that little swing 500 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: that they're sitting in. And so I could see based 501 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: off of where his feet are or how high or 502 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: how low he's in the gun. If he like sits 503 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: all the way back, he has to actually like duck 504 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 2: into the vehicle to not be seen by people. And 505 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: so I was like, Luke, you might as well get 506 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: down while we're here, because just case sniper's Like I 507 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: still didn't think there was a big threat, but I 508 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: was like, just in case, And so I see his 509 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: feet like scoop scoop a little further into the truck. 510 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: But then is his feet go backwards. I'm like, Luke, 511 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: I was like, you want to end up on my arm, 512 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 2: don't you. He's like it'd be an ar RuView on 513 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: your arm, Corporal Casper. But he just kept getting back 514 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 2: up to like he just wanted to. He didn't want 515 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: to do the escalation. He just kept on waving the flag. 516 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: I was like, they're gonna keep kind of pushings, like 517 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: there's nobody running just and then ten minutes later you 518 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: shot and killed right beside me, and so he fell 519 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: down into that and we tried to work. 520 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: Yeah it was not the cars, but nope, so was 521 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: the whole idea to put this thing in the ground 522 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: so they could stop you and get shots at you. 523 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: Yep. And so that means that they had eyes on me, 524 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 2: like just knowing that I was sitting there being a 525 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: hard target that time. And then even I had my 526 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: door open when I was filming because where shot came from. 527 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: As I was filming the propane tank that had to 528 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: be within view of where the sniper was, so he 529 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 2: might have he might have been just locked in on 530 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: me for a little bit, being like. 531 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: So, do you have guilt that he got it and 532 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: you didn't not? 533 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: I mean I'm more of guilt because I could have 534 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: actually made him get down. But again, he's a good 535 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: marine doing his job and it's not like we're both 536 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: fought for it. But if I was just like, I 537 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: could have been one of leaders. You're just like, no, 538 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 2: get in and get in. Like if I would have 539 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: had hard details that there was a sniper in the area, 540 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 2: I would have had him locked in there. And so 541 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 2: that's where that that guilt comes from. 542 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: If our listeners were here, they would see that Luke 543 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: is now on that tattoo yep. 544 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: And so I went to Texas where he's from Kingwood 545 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: and close his tattoo shop was Humble Humble, Texas, and 546 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 2: I got his name as close as I could do 547 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 2: his hometown. 548 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: See, that's not what getting blowed up sounds light to 549 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: a decent stats public. That's personal. What did you know 550 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: he's dot immediately? 551 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: No, And here's a good thing that going out was 552 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: he didn't even know he was shot. And so that's 553 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: the one comfort I could I brought to his family, 554 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 2: was uh, because when he shot, he just I just said, Luke, 555 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: are you hit? And he said, I don't know and 556 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: he fell into the truck. So that was the only 557 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: comfort I could bring to his family that he didn't know, 558 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 2: and that's a comfort that brings to me too, that 559 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: they didn't suffer suffer. And so when they pulled him out, 560 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 2: I still had the bullets because it went through his 561 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: armpit and threw both of his lungs and embedded into 562 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: his arm. And I had it in my pocket for 563 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: a while because we had to put in a little 564 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: plastic bag for investigation, and so I had the like 565 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 2: that took his life. He got on the chop We 566 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: didn't know he's dead still because they're working on him. 567 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: They had two corman on him at the time. Another 568 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 2: army unit heard that someone was shot and they came 569 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: and two people working on him. They got him on 570 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 2: the chopper. We went off to try to find the dude, 571 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: couldn't find anybody, and then they called us back to 572 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: base and that's when they told us that he passed away. 573 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: What happens when you hear that, Oh my gosh. 574 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: It's just for a split second, everyone just breaks down. 575 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: But then you realize that there's no days often more, 576 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 2: and we just I just had to put someone else 577 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: in the gun the next day and go out there 578 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: and act like we didn't hate everybody and just go 579 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 2: to work. So his best friend was there too, that 580 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: was with him when he died. Now he's in the 581 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: gun where his buddy just died, and I'm got to 582 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: control everyone and be like, okay, let's go and patrol tomorrow. 583 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: Money gonna sound like a horrible question, but I can't. 584 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: I can't not ask it. Who cleans the truck up? 585 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: We do? We do that, we clean the truck up? 586 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 2: We do? 587 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: You're cleaning your buddy's blood out of that truck. 588 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're to I didn't have to vehicle commander, 589 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 2: and that's selfish of me, but I was just like, 590 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: you know, clean the vehicles and so what. 591 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: Happens when people loose limbs and stuff? Same game. 592 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's actually an incident the sugar factory for 593 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: two seven where the guys that I served with. This 594 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 2: is the deployment I didn't go on, but when they 595 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 2: came back from where there's an id set off at 596 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 2: a door that instantly killed ten marines and they had 597 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: all the guys get up and they had three different 598 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: black bags, one with green tape, one blue tape, one 599 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 2: with red tape. So if you found a body part 600 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: you put in the red tape. Blue was gear and 601 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: green was gun, and so. 602 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: You're picking up their friends parts. 603 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we written songs about that. It's crazy to think 604 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: that this is what they're mentally holding on to that 605 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: people don't see. It's like nobody else does. There's no 606 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: cleaning crews. There's no like investigative crew to come in 607 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 2: and like clean, swab and do all that stuff and 608 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: then have a profane, a trained professional coming and swee everything. 609 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: It's the people who run it. 610 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: So the kid that's sitting in that gun the next 611 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: day when you're going out, he knows Louke died in 612 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: that spot the day before. 613 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was with them when it happened. 614 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: How do you approach that knowing you are literally any 615 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: moment from being dead. 616 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: You don't. You go through it. And this is the one. 617 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: This is the grandest part of the military and the 618 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: worst part of the military at the same time. As 619 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 2: they train you how to not be vulnerable and to 620 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 2: lose all emotion kind of thing while you're going through 621 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: the process of war, but they don't give it back 622 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 2: to you when you're done. So when I was over there, 623 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: the only thing that saved us on a lot of 624 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 2: trips was because this immediate reaction to requests. We were 625 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: driving one night and so we don't have we don't 626 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: run headlights at night, so we have night vision goggles, 627 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 2: which don't work very well. You only seem like maybe 628 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: twenty feet in front of you have these little bit 629 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: ir lights on the front of your humby, and my 630 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: driver's drive in. I'm sitting there in the pasture seat 631 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: just like trying to stay awake, like looking at the 632 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: road and instantly and this is crazy too, because you 633 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: just go up, you just make loops. But all of 634 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: a sudden, right there in the middle of of the 635 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: road was a bob and I just l left as 636 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: loud as I can, and the driver just goes left 637 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: and then he's like, what he didn't see it. I 638 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: was like there was an ied But it was that 639 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 2: instant obedience to order that saved our life right there, 640 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: because that was like homemade C four, like Russian style 641 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: Sea four, packed into this little what they call speed 642 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: bumps because it's like a metal with a little bitty 643 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: loop like speed bump, and they put what they sorry audience, 644 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: they call them anal beads. They're these little bitty uh 645 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 2: like what do you call it saw blades that are 646 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 2: just separated by two little pieces of cardboard and then 647 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: they wrap them up so the moment that if you 648 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: drive over them, the two metal pieces connect and it 649 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: completes a circuit. So they usually when they put this 650 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: speed bump on the road, they throw them out this way, 651 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: so even if you swerve you hit those, it still 652 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: blows up, not directly under for some reason why they 653 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: put this one on. They put them over the top 654 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: of it, and so luckily we swerve left. But it's 655 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: that like when they strip away the Marine Corps at 656 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 2: vulnerability and teach you, like just to go and go 657 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: and go and not think about it. That's why we 658 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: succeed when we do go to war. But that's also 659 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: why we're killing ourselves when we come home from war, 660 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 2: because they don't then say, well, here's how to remap 661 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 2: back to the normal. 662 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: It maybe because they don't know how to remap. Yeah, okay, 663 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: so that's the reality of driving a hum v around 664 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: a rock in Afghanistan and fighting in these wars. And 665 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: remember we're still talking about twenty one twenty four year 666 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: old kids, yep, and your brain's getting right oled your 667 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: body's getting beat up. And I'm glad you said talked 668 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: about how head traum works because that's the same thing 669 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: in football. Actually, if you get slobber knocked in football, 670 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: your head moves, but your brain stays still. So what's 671 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: happening is your brain spats around on the inside of 672 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: your skull and getting bruised and traumatized. And it's why 673 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: there's now in football concussion protocol And until your concussions over, 674 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: you can't go back and play football because your brain 675 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: has to recover. But you're sidd't. Yeah, military guys aren't 676 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: because they go, oh yeah, your bells wrung, get back 677 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: on humd and if you get four explosions, your brain's 678 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: irreversibly affected. 679 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And they had they did have rules at least 680 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: even when I was there. I think the rules privately 681 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: changed now, but like for the better. But even the 682 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 2: rule back then was if you had a concussion, first concussion, 683 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: it was like yet twenty four hours. 684 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: Off, that is about two and a half weeks short. 685 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, then if you get your second concussion, that's when 686 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: you get to do I think a week and then third, 687 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 2: third or two weeks and then third concussion means you're out, 688 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 2: like you're unfit for duty because it's too. 689 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: Many times you have four. 690 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: Well, the first one, yeah, they didn't think. They didn't 691 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: say I had a concussion. 692 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: There's no way if you tore cartlage in your chest 693 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: that you were not concussioned. 694 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but they didn't say it. So I was on 695 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: the road with zero at that time. And then January 696 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: is like January's second was the first time I was 697 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: hit it with the concussion. And I still remember this 698 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: because I was sitting there thinking it was only sixteen 699 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: hours off and they put me back on the normal 700 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: shift because they're like, it's close enough to twenty four hours. 701 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: So I didn't really get any time off, but I 702 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 2: remember it being like, man, if I get blown up 703 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: right now, he's gonna get a lot of trouble for 704 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 2: putting on here the next day, So that that twenty 705 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: four hour went through and I didn't get blown up, 706 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: but the second day this is like people always say 707 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: I'm lucky. I'm like, you don't even know why I'm 708 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: so lucky. The second day of that as I was 709 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: supposed to be recovering and I'm on patrol first vehicle. 710 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: We're rolling down and a proof of smoke just comes 711 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: up beside us, and I didn't see what the gunner saw. 712 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: He say, hey, Gooba cast bro. I think someone just 713 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: shot at us or something. I saw this proof of 714 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: smoke come up, and so I go, we're outlaw. I 715 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: was like, hey, outlaw too. Can you check the burm 716 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 2: over here? My gunner says there was a proof of smoke, 717 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: and so he looks. He's like, dude, that's a bomb. 718 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: And he's like okay, So we cordon it off call eod. 719 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 2: It was two one five five stacked with white phosphorus. 720 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: So this is like napalm. This is if that would 721 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 2: it would we would have been dead, completely dead. The 722 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: only thing that saved us was whoever connected it. The 723 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: blasting cap was the only thing that went off because 724 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: they didn't make the circuit. 725 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: They pushed the button when you were BA was on our. 726 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: Truck and nothing. It was just the proof And so 727 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: that was amazing for us. But it was something that 728 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: I didn't even reflect on until really later on, when 729 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: people are like, man, it's lucky that you didn't get work, 730 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, what's really lucky? At that 731 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: time that little proof of smoke went off because I 732 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: didn't even we didn't even realize we weren't. Just like 733 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: in the moment in the military, you're not like, oh 734 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: I could have died, I could have done this years like, 735 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 2: oh my god, that was insane. We almost got blown up. 736 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: Like that's how we process it. 737 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: So now it's time to start working new way out 738 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: of the Marines and you're told you have a brain injury. 739 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 2: I actually wasn't told I had a brain injury. 740 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: Okay, well tell me how that worked. 741 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 2: So before this is the funny thing too. I had 742 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: to extend. I don't think I've said this. I had 743 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: to extend to go to war. I didn't actually meet 744 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: when they first sent me to first Tank Battalion with 745 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: first toes. They said I didn't make their deployment either. 746 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: So I asked if I could extend in the Marine Corps, 747 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 2: just even a few months, And I'm like, yeah, you 748 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 2: could extend if you just want to do a month. 749 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 2: And extend a month, I was like, I did not 750 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: know that, or I would have done that with two seven, 751 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: but thanks for telling me now, And so I extended 752 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: one month in the Marine Corps just to go to war. 753 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: So that was a whole nother hurdle. But then because 754 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: I did that and they knew I was getting out 755 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: the moment I touched down, I had to do my separation. 756 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: They call it like steps and taps. I had to 757 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 2: do that before I even left for Iraq. So, which 758 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: is stupid anyways, because you're supposed touchdown or just have 759 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 2: this time to like, you know, learn how to do 760 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: resumes and stuff. And I did that before I even 761 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: went to war, because they were just trying to you know, 762 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: cut costs and be like, just do it now so 763 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: we can get you over there. So the whole time, 764 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: I was considered unfit for duty. So within four months 765 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 2: of me being in Iraq, I couldn't work my normal 766 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: job anymore. But I still was in Iraq. I was like, 767 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: see you why for duty? Just because of the rule 768 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: three concussions you're out rule. I got it and so, 769 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: and I didn't know that my brain is was that bad. 770 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: There was signs of it, but I didn't know the signs. 771 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: I just figured they're the smart ones. So if they 772 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 2: kept saying we're probably gonna send you to Ballad to 773 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 2: get a cat scan, that's where they'll find out if 774 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 2: you have any brain damage. Nothing. They never sent me. 775 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: I just kept going throughout my days like normal. They 776 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 2: just kept never sending me. So I was like, Okay, 777 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 2: I must be good. But they'd put me on I'd 778 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: be on this COC like the command center that was 779 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 2: on Camp Fallujah, just as like a runner, and they'd 780 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 2: be like, hey, go get Corporal Johnson from Hutt two 781 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: to two. But the moment he said two two, I 782 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: forgot the corporal's name. And then he'd say I'd be like, 783 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 2: what was that, Gunny? And he'd say it again and 784 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: I forget. I was like, what was the number? And 785 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 2: he say the number and I forget the name. I 786 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 2: was like, what was his name? And then he'd say 787 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: that he just he'd get so pissed at me. I 788 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 2: thought I was gonna get in trouble. So I started 789 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 2: only learning the number because then i'd run there. There'd 790 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 2: be two guys names on there. But hey, Gunny, once 791 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: one of you up there, and then let him decide 792 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 2: once you go up there. So I should have probably known, 793 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: but I also thought I was just blown up a 794 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 2: bunch of times. It's gonna take a minute for me 795 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: to be unrattled so well for the rest of the 796 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 2: three months goes by, and I fly back to the 797 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: States and I get home in twenty on Palms, California, 798 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: and I start checking out of the Marine Corps. Within 799 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: the first like three days of me being home for more, 800 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: I'm checking out going. I went to medical and just 801 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 2: said like, hey, will you sign off on this? And're like, 802 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: do you need to be seen by us? I was like, 803 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: I don't think so, because nobody ever saw me then, 804 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: and so I just had them sign off and I 805 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 2: left the Marine Corps. So I didn't know I should 806 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: have been medically retired. I still haven't been, but I 807 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 2: just left and took six months off of just trying 808 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: to find out what the next step was, and I 809 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: knew it was college. But then after like six months 810 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 2: is when I decided to go to the VA, and 811 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: that's when I ended up getting diagnosed with it. 812 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: We'll be right back when you get back. Do you 813 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: have survivors? Gill? No. 814 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 2: I didn't feel anything. It was not in like a 815 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 2: bad way, didn't feel it like numb. They sit And 816 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 2: I didn'tlearn until afterwards that PTSD doesn't even kick in 817 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 2: until like one hundred and ninety days or plus out 818 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 2: because it's like the think of whole reality shift. So 819 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 2: I was just so happy to be home in like 820 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 2: next phase of my life? 821 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: What do I do? 822 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 2: And kind of I felt pretty normal even coming home, 823 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 2: even because you reflect on it and you feel like 824 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 2: you're a bad person because you don't feel anything. You 825 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: don't you don't feel anything that your friend. Do you 826 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 2: feel it? Obviously you can't. It's hard to bring up. 827 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 2: You can't talk to people. But you don't feel it, 828 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 2: feel it like you think you would in the first 829 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: initial stage of getting back. And I think that's because 830 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 2: excitement's out weighing everything else. Your excitement levels are so 831 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 2: high that it's kind of depressing everything else. So you're like, 832 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: I'm back home. My mom came to see me, my 833 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 2: girlfriend at the time came to see me. Like, Oh, 834 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this. We're gonna travel across the country. 835 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna eat Taco Bell. It's been like seven months 836 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: and I hate Taco Bell. And you start getting so 837 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 2: excited that I think you're suppressing them until it all 838 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: just hits you at once. And that's kind of what happened. 839 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: I don't know the numbers, but I think during that time, 840 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: how many servicemen a day were committing suicide. 841 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: So it's the numbers now they say is roughly there's 842 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 2: roughly twenty suicides a day, and that's military and veterans, 843 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 2: mainly veterans, is like seventeen points something of that. The 844 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 2: other ones are active and reservist. But that's just to 845 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 2: say that's including active. 846 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: I didn't realize. 847 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like number three for active or something. But 848 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: that's only the VA study. So there's something called American 849 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: Warrior Partnership out of Atlanta that did another study, a 850 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 2: deeper dive where they partner with university you think of Alabama, 851 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: and they went down to the Corner Report because what 852 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 2: happens is if you don't have a suicide letter, they 853 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 2: don't count as a suicide of a veteran. So if 854 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 2: you get in a car accident or overdose or anything else, 855 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 2: it's not suicide, it's an overdose. They're very black and 856 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: white on that. But the Corner Report went down to 857 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,439 Speaker 2: like they actually went they searched every veteran who died. 858 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: They went down to the path of being like is 859 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 2: this most likely a death? So what they found was 860 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 2: in their study that it is minimum of twenty three 861 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 2: suicides a day in the veteran military is but it's 862 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 2: most likely up to forty three because the people who 863 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: didn't have notes still had all the indications that they've 864 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 2: and I've seen this through the work we do with Creative. 865 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 2: It's where someone was like, hey, before this program, I 866 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: was going to have a rock climbing accident. I wasn't 867 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 2: gonna leave a note. I didn't want my kids to 868 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 2: know I killed myself. I was just gonna say, you know, hey, 869 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: your mom fell off a rock. And so I know 870 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 2: that they don't lead notes all the time. And so 871 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 2: they did this big study that shows that most likely 872 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: it's anywhere between the twenty three and the forty four 873 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 2: number a day. Currently, that's. 874 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: Between two and twenty five hundred service people annually. 875 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were safer in war than we were at 876 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 2: six thousand people died in that twenty year war. 877 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: Right, and now you're losing five times as many service people, yeah, 878 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: at home than you did in theater. So the war 879 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: continues to kill service But. 880 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 2: That's the thing too, it's not even the war. Suicide 881 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: is as a whole as up and a lot of 882 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: that goes back, like childhood suicide and all that, and 883 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 2: so I think these later states suicide, we're seeing a 884 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: lot of non combat people who are killing themselves, a 885 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 2: lot of active duty people who've never seen anything that 886 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 2: are killing themselves. And so it's so hard to pinpoint 887 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 2: it now where it's at. Back then it was pretty 888 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 2: high because people didn't know how to deal with it, 889 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 2: But now the numbers only keep growing. I think it's 890 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: because a whole social like econotic, like the when iPhone 891 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: came out, I was a part of the I was 892 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: honored enough to be invited to the Province Task Force 893 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 2: before it was inside the government. And so if you 894 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 2: don't know, one of the things that Trump put in 895 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: place was like this thing called Province Task Force, and 896 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 2: it's supposed to be outside of the VA government. It's 897 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 2: supposed to be a bunch of entities so that nonprofits 898 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: get together and other people and solve veteran suicide. Drew 899 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 2: a bunch of like however, it is, just try to 900 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 2: solve it. I was the only arts nonprofit at the 901 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 2: table at the time, which I thought was awesome. I 902 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 2: went to DC met with all these people. It's like, 903 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 2: this is gonna be great. So we started doing this 904 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 2: like work up and then now it's been pulled into 905 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 2: the administration. After the next administration came in, they're like, hey, 906 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 2: let's pull this back in to the government. Good and 907 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 2: I've been excluded from it. But when I was there 908 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 2: the first time, they said, what we're really tackling is 909 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 2: not veteran suicide. We are going to tackle that, but 910 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 2: we're going to figure out why it's happening, and we're 911 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 2: going to sprinkle that into everybody else. And they showed 912 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 2: us statistics where like the highest rate of suicide in 913 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 2: or highest rate of death in like Arizona somewhere from 914 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 2: thirteen to sixteen year olds is suicide. It was a 915 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: crazy number. And they showed us the correlation between like 916 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight up and suicides in every single population. 917 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 2: So what we're ultimately trying to solve wasn't just better suicide, 918 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: it was everybody's suicide. So I think that's where sometimes 919 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: these I do want to preface this not war always, 920 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 2: but it is there is an issue, and it's a 921 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 2: military is the biggest. 922 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: Part of the issue, even if it's twenty two No, 923 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: I know you can cut that number to fifteen hundred 924 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: hundred percent. 925 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 2: No, a lot of it is fatter. A lot of 926 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 2: the venters that we deal with is from war specifically. 927 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: So you've got a brain injury, you're trying to figure 928 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: out life, and you want to go to college, and 929 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: now enough time has pass that you're suffering from PTSD. 930 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: Did you ever consider suicide? 931 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, but my faith in God was 932 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 2: the one thing that kept me above water when I 933 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 2: if zero was killed myself and a hundred was me 934 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 2: before war. I was at a nine when I first 935 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 2: went well, it was during college when I was in 936 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 2: my deepest, darkest place. But I was like in a 937 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 2: nine and I was hovering there. But again, it was 938 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 2: just my personal faith that I was just like, I'm 939 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 2: never gonna do this. But I thought about it a 940 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 2: lot of times, but I just was like, I'm not 941 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 2: gonna do this. 942 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: That's dark. 943 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was a lot of thought. I mean, 944 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 2: I was hurting. I was everything, like I didn't know. 945 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 2: I went from him again, not that it's a big 946 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 2: deal in the kid twenty two person class, but I 947 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 2: was prom king. I was class clown. I went and 948 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 2: guarded the president of the United States. I went to war, 949 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 2: and I'm a twenty two year old, Like what other 950 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 2: twenty two has a life like that kind of life 951 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 2: experience of what I went through. And now I'm bouncing 952 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 2: in a bar with a brain injury and I can't 953 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: learn new technical skills and I have debilitating anxieties that 954 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: I can't leave the house for some reason. I didn't 955 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 2: know why I was anxiety about, and I didn't know 956 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 2: for the longest time I would. So I went to 957 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: college at first, like normal, I went. I wanted to 958 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 2: study business business school, right business entrepreneurship at this community college, 959 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 2: because again we didn't have money. So I was like, 960 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 2: I knew, I'm going to community college route, then I'll 961 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 2: probably do a four year of college with the GNI bill. 962 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 2: So I start going and I failed my very first 963 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 2: business class, and that was the first sign of that 964 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 2: there was a bigger issue than I knew about. Because 965 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 2: I didn't have to use my brain for six months. 966 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 2: It was like I took my Harley to surgis. I 967 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 2: just rode around. I didn't have to really fully function 968 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 2: with my brain. It was just a normal day to day. 969 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 2: And so now I'm in school and I sign up 970 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 2: for this hybrid class, which is online. You're in class 971 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 2: every Monday, but you do online stuff, and I could 972 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 2: not get There was a process where I was like, 973 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 2: I never remembered where to go like online even how 974 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 2: to even once I figured out how to go online 975 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 2: to get it, I didn't know where in there. And 976 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 2: I just ended up failing that class so miserably that 977 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 2: that's when I went to the A hospital. I was like, 978 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 2: I think there's something else wrong with me. And I 979 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 2: go through the whole process and they ended up diagnosing 980 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 2: me with tramic brain injury. And back then when they 981 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 2: don't know how to talk about it, they're just pretty 982 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 2: much like, oh, yeah, so if in two years you 983 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 2: don't see any like anything better, you're probably gonna be 984 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 2: like this rest of your life. Like that was their thing, 985 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 2: not like right, yeah, so I have a time or 986 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 2: two years and we're good, uh and so, but they're like, hey, 987 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 2: you're probably not gonna learn new technical skills. Your left 988 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 2: brains injured, so your short term memories like jacked up, 989 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 2: you're all this stuff. You're my speech at the time, 990 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 2: I did a lot of um my roll index was 991 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 2: broken in my head. I couldn't find words and all 992 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 2: these issues. And so now I'm thinking like, wow, I 993 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 2: can't do a lot of even though I look like 994 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 2: I'm you know, working a lot very fit, I still 995 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 2: my body doesn't function that way. I'm still very much injured. 996 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 2: And so I was like, well, I can't get like 997 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 2: a heavily physical job even though I look like I can. 998 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 2: And then I can't learn new technical skills, like I'm 999 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 2: a piece of crap, Like what can I do? And 1000 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,760 Speaker 2: so even in Illinois, they make you do speech classes. 1001 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 2: And this is when I found out I had anxieties 1002 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 2: really bad. I'm supposed to do speeches in front of 1003 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 2: these eighteen nine year old kids. Nope, they don't have 1004 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 2: any kind of you know, life, and like they haven't 1005 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 2: done anything like high school four months pretty much high school. 1006 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 2: This is their first writing class, speech class. And I'm 1007 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 2: back here, this veteran serve four years gard the president, 1008 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,439 Speaker 2: and all we have to do is write a little 1009 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 2: report and then go up in front of class and 1010 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 2: read that report. Seems easy, right, Well I got debilitating 1011 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 2: anxiety to the points where I had to do one 1012 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 2: on one speeches my speech teacher. I had to go 1013 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 2: tell her that I had, Like there's a kid who 1014 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 2: had autism like on like on the like I don't 1015 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 2: want to be around people style that still would get 1016 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 2: up in front of class and do something. And then 1017 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 2: there was me who, when you look at me, every 1018 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 2: part of me should have been able to go up there. 1019 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 2: I couldn't and I couldn't get over that. And that's 1020 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 2: part of the reason why like even contemplats suicide because 1021 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 2: I was like, what am I gonna do? Like if 1022 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,280 Speaker 2: I keep like if I'm broken physically and I'm broken mentally, 1023 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 2: just what is there in the world for me and 1024 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 2: so and. 1025 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: Who's gonna want to be around me? Yeah, and so 1026 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,400 Speaker 1: I just cause the anxiety. 1027 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 2: It was in anticipation anxiety. I didn't even know what 1028 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 2: it was. It was the idea that I was going 1029 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 2: to be in front of class, speaking in front of people. 1030 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 2: And I think it ultimately comes back from being blown 1031 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 2: up by not knowing who was blowing me up. And 1032 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 2: so I'd be just driving every day like normal, then boom, 1033 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 2: and then I was just sitting in my truck when 1034 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 2: my gun I was boom killed. And so I think 1035 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 2: it was anticipation anxiety that is I was in the 1036 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 2: front of the class, or if I was the first 1037 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 2: person walking in or something like, something could happen to me. 1038 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 2: So I never knew what it was though, and that's 1039 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 2: where a lot of suicide comes from. It was because 1040 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 2: we never asked why why am I getting anxiety? 1041 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: I never even thought about that. What about just driving around? 1042 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: Didn't you drive around and have flashbacks? And so it's 1043 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: not flashback, passed a thing on the sidewalk and freak. 1044 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 2: So I didn't know that was happening, but it was happening. 1045 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 2: So you're subconscious, don't so yours? And this is the 1046 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 2: important thing that I get to tell veterans, is like, 1047 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 2: you're subconscious. Like so they taught me. There's this really 1048 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 2: cool article that described it the best and they broke 1049 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 2: it down Barney style. So they said, you have Barney. Yeah, 1050 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 2: they broke it down Barney style. They said it you 1051 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 2: had your foret very simple, very simple, your forefront of 1052 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 2: your brain and in the back end of your brain. 1053 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 2: And one's like your your uh how did they say it? 1054 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,320 Speaker 2: But I think it was just like forefront of the 1055 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,800 Speaker 2: back end of your brain. And so your forefront of 1056 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,439 Speaker 2: brain is like what we're doing right now, we're talking, 1057 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 2: we're doing all this stuff, but if anything happened, someone 1058 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 2: came in here or shooter came in, we'd all go 1059 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 2: into a fight or flight brain, which is actually separate. 1060 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 2: It has no emotion, it doesn't attach motion. It's just 1061 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 2: if you're trained well enough, you go and fight. If 1062 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 2: you don't, you come back. And so in that brain 1063 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 2: is where like if you killed someone overseas in a 1064 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 2: fight firefight, and then you come back out of it 1065 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 2: and you're like, I didn't I didn't care that I 1066 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,399 Speaker 2: killed that person in the moment, like I didn't feel anything. 1067 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 2: So you your brain starts talking to each other. Little brain, 1068 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 2: big brain starts to me like big Brain's like, why 1069 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,919 Speaker 2: didn't you feel compassion? Why do you kill that person 1070 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 2: not feel anything? Then your wear brains just like I 1071 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 2: don't know, like I don't know why I did. So 1072 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,720 Speaker 2: you're having this internal discussion or subconscious like are sometimes 1073 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,280 Speaker 2: to picks up on everything. That's why we have anxiety 1074 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 2: before we think of like why am I about to 1075 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 2: get anxiety? So that anxiety subconscious was telling me when 1076 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 2: I was driving to school, then I was going to 1077 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 2: be blown up. But the forefront of my brain is 1078 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 2: just like I'm going to school, So my body's reacting 1079 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 2: to my subconscious and my mind's reacting to like what 1080 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 2: I'm doing that day. 1081 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: Which is so interesting. That's how that that's how you 1082 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: don't understand it, but you can't get your body to 1083 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: do what you wanted to do. 1084 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what leads to suicide. Is that whole why? 1085 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: Why? 1086 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 2: Why is this happening? And never trying to discover And 1087 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,320 Speaker 2: that's where my next choice in life is what saved 1088 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 2: my life and saved a lot of other vendors' life. 1089 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 2: Since then was I decided to do art, I decided 1090 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 2: to take. 1091 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: So okay, so yeah, So, first of all, that is 1092 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: so freaking gosh. I don't want to say it's interesting 1093 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: because it's horrific, but it is interesting. It's horrifically interesting. 1094 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 1: I guess that so many of our young men and 1095 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: women who served us come back to the United State 1096 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 1: with that very thing going on in their brains, and 1097 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: somehow they're trying to at the same time fighting all 1098 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: these internal struggles. They're trying to re enter a normal, 1099 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: civilized society and they're having a hard time finding their 1100 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,720 Speaker 1: place in it. And who do they talk to? Because 1101 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: unless they're sitting there with a buddy who's been through it, 1102 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: nobody can really I can hear you, and I, for 1103 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 1: God's sakes, I empathize with that. But there's no way 1104 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 1: you can tell that story to someone who doesn't experience 1105 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: it and think that we actually get it. So now 1106 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,879 Speaker 1: you're also isolated. So you've got anxiety, you've got things 1107 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: going on, you've got suicidal tendencies. You have to feel isolated, 1108 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: and you can understand why people would say I'm hanging 1109 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: it up. 1110 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get it was so bad. I got 1111 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 2: anxiety about getting anxiety one time, and I still remember 1112 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 2: it because I make is same sandwich like I legitmate 1113 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't leave house unless it was absolute need, ran out 1114 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,399 Speaker 2: of all food supplies, and I was. I was trying 1115 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,000 Speaker 2: to get job interviews. It's still like in that moment 1116 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,400 Speaker 2: where you're like, you knew you had some issues, but 1117 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 2: you had to be successful, try to as hard as 1118 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,320 Speaker 2: you could. So I was gonna go to a job interview, 1119 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 2: and I was making like a sandwich for the day, 1120 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,680 Speaker 2: just like malooney and cheese sandwich, probably through ketchup on there. 1121 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 2: Because I was that type person like ketchup. 1122 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,919 Speaker 1: That's disgusting, nasty dude, that was my jam. I will 1123 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: not feel bad for you. I will empathize with everything 1124 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 1: you've said except for that disgusting to that have information. 1125 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 2: So I'll be eating this awesome sandwich. 1126 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: There's nothing awesome about maloney and. 1127 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,280 Speaker 2: And uh about before I was going to this job interview, 1128 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 2: which I was getting anxieties because of the job interview, right, 1129 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,720 Speaker 2: but I was eating the sandwich when I was getting sure. 1130 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't about thea you were going to have from 1131 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:51,760 Speaker 1: the Bolooneian barbecue. 1132 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,240 Speaker 2: I was well trained. This was at least my thousands sandwich. 1133 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 2: So the next day, when I had nothing to do 1134 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 2: besides probably game with my buddies, was making a sandwich. 1135 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,720 Speaker 2: I started making the sandwich, and my anxiety came. Why again, 1136 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,320 Speaker 2: because my body remembered, you know, the body keeps a score. 1137 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 2: My body remembered getting anxiety the previous day making the sandwich. 1138 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 2: I was getting anxiety because I was getting anxiety. Wow, 1139 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 2: it was like and that's where I think people will get. 1140 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: Caught up as just to make it literally cristy. 1141 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 2: Because they think, like what and so that's that's honestly. 1142 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 2: When I was like, something really has to change. And 1143 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 2: that's again when I went to I was still in 1144 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,800 Speaker 2: college even though I was failed my classes, and I 1145 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,799 Speaker 2: was sitting there taking again, optimism goes a very long way, 1146 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 2: and I was sitting looking back saying, Okay, I guarded 1147 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 2: to the President of the United States and had a 1148 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 2: really high clearance. So now that I am going to college, 1149 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 2: what I did learn and the separation program was you 1150 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 2: don't really need the degree you're going for unless it's 1151 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,320 Speaker 2: very specific, like obviously, if we're gonna be doctor, you 1152 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 2: need a degree, but if you wanted to even go 1153 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 2: law enforcement, you didn't actually need like a law degree, 1154 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 2: like law enforcement degree. If you wanted to be executive 1155 00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 2: director of a non probably you don't have to go 1156 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,960 Speaker 2: through non off of management school. You just need a 1157 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 2: degree because it shows people that. 1158 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: Get will to go yeah, and you can commit and finish. 1159 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 2: And so I was thinking, Okay, I have the background, 1160 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,359 Speaker 2: which is what most people don't have, like top TOI 1161 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 2: your security clearance, experience guard than the president. Now I 1162 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 2: just need a degree and I could be an FBI 1163 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 2: AGENCYIA agent, whate a three letter agencies and just be 1164 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 2: And I thought that might bring me normalcy again as 1165 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 2: being in a place where maybe combat something like that. 1166 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 2: And so I was like, but what can I do 1167 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 2: to get a degree now that I have a brain 1168 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 2: injury and I can't really do so and I have anxiety? 1169 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 2: So where can I go be with people who I 1170 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:32,920 Speaker 2: don't want to talk to they don't want to talk 1171 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,880 Speaker 2: to me. Maybe I'll be an artist. 1172 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,800 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, coo, are you kidding? 1173 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 2: I'll sign up for some art classes so I don't 1174 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:40,920 Speaker 2: have to talk to these kids who don't want to 1175 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,680 Speaker 2: talk to me. I don't have to worry about that. 1176 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,840 Speaker 1: Dude, a six foot five veteran rolling in with a 1177 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: bunch of eighteen year old and I had a Harley. 1178 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 2: I had Harley cut off more cutoffs than I did 1179 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 2: shirts with sleeves on it. And I was like thirty 1180 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 2: pounds heavy and it's working all the time. 1181 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,919 Speaker 1: That well, but the artists crowd can be a little 1182 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,960 Speaker 1: eclectic and all that. So but I just got to 1183 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 1: believe one thing did not look like. 1184 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 2: No, when people see me walk in this room, just 1185 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 2: like what is that? Yeah? 1186 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: Uh? 1187 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 2: But it was good because again they didn't want to 1188 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,239 Speaker 2: really talk to me. I didn't want to talk to them. 1189 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 2: There's no like, I didn't have to use my brain 1190 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 2: that much. So I thought, you know, I was like, okay, 1191 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 2: I'll just paint some things, eat some crans like marine stew. 1192 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,040 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 1193 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,759 Speaker 2: So the only one that knew I had disabilities was 1194 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 2: a teacher because I had to report, like, hey, if 1195 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 2: I anxieties want to leave the room or not show 1196 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 2: up to classes, probably because something's happened on a PTSD 1197 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:51,880 Speaker 2: flare up kind of thing. And so I'm learning drawing 1198 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,440 Speaker 2: and painting and it's going well. I go to my 1199 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 2: gunner's grave every single year. I go to Houston to 1200 00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 2: visit his family. I didn't know his family before he 1201 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,279 Speaker 2: was killed. Sales afraid to call his family back when 1202 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 2: you can still they still had some you know, you 1203 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 2: flip through the books and find some people and UH 1204 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 2: call him up and just you know, I left a 1205 00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 2: voice message saying, hey, you don't know me when I 1206 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 2: served with your son, and I'm coming to his grave 1207 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 2: on the day he died, and so I just want 1208 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 2: to know. I was being in town and they called 1209 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,160 Speaker 2: me and they said, you need to stop by your 1210 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 2: house if you're coming. So I went there and I 1211 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 2: haven't I've never not gone. I haven't missed a year 1212 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,800 Speaker 2: going to his grave and December spend time stayed his 1213 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 2: family's house, spend time with him. 1214 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: Do you have a wump in your throat walking up 1215 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,480 Speaker 1: to this kid's family? Oh my god. 1216 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 2: The first few times, the very first time, because I 1217 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,640 Speaker 2: was legit, I was in charge of him when he died, 1218 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,759 Speaker 2: so I could have got a slap in the face. 1219 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,400 Speaker 2: They could have been wanting, you know, me to come 1220 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,640 Speaker 2: there for retribution, or it was going to be something different. 1221 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 2: And I'm so glad they are who they are because 1222 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,520 Speaker 2: I remember getting out of that truck and my uncle shake. 1223 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,440 Speaker 1: I would be so freaking nervous I was. That was anxiety. 1224 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 2: That was the most nervousness I've ever had. I had 1225 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,879 Speaker 2: one phone conversation with him saying I was coming to town. 1226 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 2: They said, we're having a awake, like a celebration of 1227 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 2: life for Luke. So please, We're gonna be at our 1228 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 2: neighbor's house across the street. Just come over when you 1229 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,839 Speaker 2: arrive and pulled in and she was like, are you rich? 1230 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 2: And I was like yeah. She gave me like the 1231 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,839 Speaker 2: biggest mom hug ever, and at that moment, I knew 1232 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:17,279 Speaker 2: everything was. 1233 00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: Gonna be all right, and so did they want to 1234 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:20,040 Speaker 1: know everything? 1235 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,880 Speaker 2: No, they didn't, like they they kind of well she 1236 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:28,440 Speaker 2: did specifically only because there she heard. It was a 1237 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 2: few years after that, like the first year, I just 1238 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,120 Speaker 2: wanted to be like I served with him, no nothing else. 1239 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,000 Speaker 2: Second year I came, Third year I came, and I 1240 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 2: think it was the third year where I just had 1241 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 2: to tell her that was the lump of the throat, 1242 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,720 Speaker 2: like I need to tell her that her son didn't suffer, 1243 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,239 Speaker 2: Like I don't know how much detail I'll get in, 1244 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,320 Speaker 2: but I need her to know that she that he 1245 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 2: didn't suffer, like that was the main thing. And then 1246 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 2: come to find out that, you know, the other brains 1247 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 2: that served with him, he was engaged at the time. 1248 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,600 Speaker 2: They decided when they came home to tell his fiance 1249 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 2: that like he said your name when he died, like 1250 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,720 Speaker 2: try to bring her come by, which is all crap, 1251 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,800 Speaker 2: which but that got back to the mom. And so 1252 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,920 Speaker 2: imagine you're the mother of him thinking that another lady 1253 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 2: was like coming out of his mouth when he died, 1254 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,840 Speaker 2: not his own mom. And so it's like this idea 1255 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 2: that like the is so I never wanted her to 1256 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:15,800 Speaker 2: feel that, so I had to tell her. So I 1257 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,840 Speaker 2: ended up telling her the whole thing, and she's like, 1258 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 2: I knew it. I knew that if it was any 1259 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 2: woman's name coming out of his mouth at the end, 1260 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,239 Speaker 2: it was going to be his mom's name. And so 1261 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 2: that was the thing that I just felt so good 1262 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,239 Speaker 2: that I got that off my chest because now she 1263 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,520 Speaker 2: knows that he just didn't know. 1264 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,319 Speaker 1: Once are again, these are not conversations that people are 1265 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,120 Speaker 1: supposed to have telling parents about how their children die, No, 1266 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: and reliving it. Yeah, all right, so you're an art class. 1267 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,280 Speaker 2: So now I'm an art class. I have this photo 1268 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,799 Speaker 2: of me and his grave that my uncle took when 1269 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 2: I was sitting there, and I just loved it. It 1270 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,880 Speaker 2: was like I was my hand on his grave, it 1271 00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,759 Speaker 2: was the tattoo with his name on it. It was 1272 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,200 Speaker 2: me just kneeling there. And so in this class, I 1273 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 2: wasn't you're not supposed to do You don't need to 1274 00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 2: do conceptual things or just you could copy photos, you 1275 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 2: could do whatever kind of you I want. You're just 1276 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 2: learning at this point. It was like I think by 1277 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,239 Speaker 2: that time, it was drawing too or painting too, and 1278 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,320 Speaker 2: I'm doing chalk pastel, and I have this photo of 1279 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 2: me and in my gunner's grave that I'm just doing 1280 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,399 Speaker 2: by myself in the corner again, don't want anybody to see. 1281 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,920 Speaker 2: And I'm coloring in everything skin tone this way's supposed 1282 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,920 Speaker 2: to be, the cami shorts, the black shirt, his headstone. 1283 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 2: Everything is an exact replica of the portrait or the 1284 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 2: photo that I have next to it. And my teacher 1285 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,400 Speaker 2: comes up behind me and he said, hey, I know 1286 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,120 Speaker 2: you're probably gonna do the background green because it's grass. 1287 00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,240 Speaker 2: I see it here. But I just want to challenge 1288 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 2: you to do painted a color that wouldn't grass, would 1289 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 2: never be like it never be this color, Because if 1290 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,440 Speaker 2: you do something like that, you gotta imagine that your 1291 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 2: art's gonna live where you're not. So if it's sitting 1292 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 2: up in a room somewhere and you're not there to 1293 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 2: explain it. If you want that person viewing it to 1294 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 2: know that you're a part of this piece, you need 1295 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 2: to have a conversation with him. So and I first 1296 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't understand any of that, and I 1297 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 2: still barely understand it. I'm like, that sounds stupid, Like 1298 00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to mess up this drawing because it's 1299 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,560 Speaker 2: really good. It's like it's like the best I've done yet, 1300 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,919 Speaker 2: and it is my first time doing chalk pastel. Every 1301 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,799 Speaker 2: part of me was saying, don't do it because I'm 1302 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,680 Speaker 2: going to ruin this piece. And I ended up getting 1303 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,000 Speaker 2: red and just I did everything red behind it, just 1304 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,320 Speaker 2: because I'm good marine follow rules, did everything read, not 1305 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 2: knowing why. And then it comes to critique time, and 1306 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,760 Speaker 2: I was so art dumb. I didn't know what critiques were. Really, 1307 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 2: I just you know, I put up my piece. The 1308 00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,280 Speaker 2: other kids put up their piece, and then he's like, Richard, 1309 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,720 Speaker 2: do you want to talk about your piece? I was like, 1310 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,480 Speaker 2: uh no, thank you very much. I'm not gonna talk 1311 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,160 Speaker 2: about like Richard, do you want to talk about anything. 1312 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 2: That's why I'm in hope. That's why this is my piece. 1313 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:33,760 Speaker 2: Like that's why I'm here. 1314 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 1: I'm here not to speak. 1315 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they say, students who had no idea 1316 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,360 Speaker 2: about my life, like what do you think about Richard's piece? 1317 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,480 Speaker 2: What do you think he's saying? And then each one, 1318 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,560 Speaker 2: one by one is like, I think you put Redd 1319 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 2: in there because you you're so angry your buddy died. 1320 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 2: And I didn't put his name on there. Anything I 1321 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,000 Speaker 2: put I actually put on the thing John fifteen thirteen, 1322 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,560 Speaker 2: which is no great or yeah, no great love has 1323 00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,080 Speaker 2: a man than to lay down his life for a friend. 1324 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 2: And so I didn't put any names on there, like 1325 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,640 Speaker 2: it was somebody just put that piece up there. They said. 1326 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,480 Speaker 2: Another person's like, I think you put red in there 1327 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,600 Speaker 2: because you love this person. Another person said, oh. 1328 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,440 Speaker 1: I'd representing love, which I'm sitting here being glorious thing 1329 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 1: thinking it represents. 1330 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 2: But that was the third person. The third student said, 1331 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,440 Speaker 2: I think you put red in there because you saw 1332 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,520 Speaker 2: his blood. You are with this person when he died. 1333 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,160 Speaker 2: And I'm sitting here thinking, holy cra these eighteen night 1334 00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 2: tel kids. You know nothing about me. And I felt 1335 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 2: like I was connected to for split second, I felt 1336 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 2: like they were a battle body because I didn't say 1337 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 2: anything and they heard everything. And so now I found 1338 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,439 Speaker 2: a way to talk about my issues without actually talking 1339 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:39,920 Speaker 2: about them, which is my biggest issue. 1340 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,680 Speaker 1: And you were speaking through your art and I was speaking. 1341 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 2: Through my art. So I was like, what is this 1342 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,480 Speaker 2: voodoo witchcraft that just happened? Like like how did how 1343 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,960 Speaker 2: did you know? And I talked to my teacher more 1344 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,120 Speaker 2: about it. He's like, that's what conceptual modern art is 1345 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,360 Speaker 2: supposed to be. You're supposed to be able to hide symbols, 1346 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 2: use color that evoke emotion that has different meaning, and 1347 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,840 Speaker 2: tell a story without actually telling a story. And that's 1348 00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,600 Speaker 2: what really good artists accomplished by doing it. They don't 1349 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,360 Speaker 2: tape bananas to walls. They do other things that like 1350 00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,800 Speaker 2: really evoke emotion. And because there's the whole thing like 1351 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,360 Speaker 2: never go to art, like you don't go all the 1352 00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,680 Speaker 2: way to that side of it. You have to stick 1353 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,840 Speaker 2: in this middle ground where everyone can understand it. And 1354 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,520 Speaker 2: that's where I was going. I was like, imagine I 1355 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,560 Speaker 2: used one color to tell that story. Imagine if I 1356 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 2: understood every color and every pattern and everything, Like what 1357 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,040 Speaker 2: stories could I tell? And get off my chest? And 1358 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,280 Speaker 2: so I just dove deep into this idea of like 1359 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,560 Speaker 2: art and how I tell my story and I started 1360 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,120 Speaker 2: everything from that point. I was taking creative writing classes, 1361 00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,080 Speaker 2: I was doing every kind of art form to really 1362 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,280 Speaker 2: trying to dive into it. So here I am this 1363 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,600 Speaker 2: community college because I have no money, and this like 1364 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,480 Speaker 2: gi Bill is paying for it, Okay, But then someone 1365 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 2: from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, not 1366 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,640 Speaker 2: the Art Institute. It's like the global chain, like the 1367 00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,720 Speaker 2: School of the Artist to Chicago, where Georgia O'Keeffe went, 1368 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,440 Speaker 2: Walt Disney went there. Disney, right, yeah, Walt Disney went there. 1369 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner, if you're that type of fan, he went 1370 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,960 Speaker 2: there too. So a lot of artist, a lot of 1371 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,840 Speaker 2: big alumni went there. And so they were like, this 1372 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 2: is like the Harvard of Art schools art institutions. And 1373 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,880 Speaker 2: they came down and talked about what their school was, 1374 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, this is in my backyard. 1375 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm gonna apply there. And I tell 1376 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,120 Speaker 2: my teacher that and he's like, whoa. 1377 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: He's like, this is Harvard. 1378 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,320 Speaker 2: He's like, you either just have a lot of money 1379 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,600 Speaker 2: and you can get in there probably, or you study 1380 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,880 Speaker 2: art your whole life. Like it's those two demographics they 1381 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 2: typically get even in Harvard. I have a lot of money, 1382 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 2: no people, or you're super super super smart. And so 1383 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,920 Speaker 2: he's like, so I just don't want to break your heart, 1384 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,520 Speaker 2: like I wouldn't go up there. So me optimist, I 1385 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:37,960 Speaker 2: was like, that's the only school I'm going to apply 1386 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,800 Speaker 2: for after this. So I applied for the school. I 1387 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 2: go up through my portfolio review, which every other student 1388 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 2: up there has thirty pieces of art like that was 1389 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,959 Speaker 2: like the maximum was like, and it's sixteen to thirty. 1390 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,760 Speaker 2: I pull up with like twelve and eight of them 1391 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,480 Speaker 2: are still lives, like where you just take a piece 1392 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 2: of fruit and color it in like that would because 1393 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,520 Speaker 2: I didn't have any concept material because I just discovered heart. 1394 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,520 Speaker 2: So I go up there with my portfolio review on 1395 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,520 Speaker 2: review day and they give it like a they have grading, 1396 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 2: and that one was fully just being graded on like 1397 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,160 Speaker 2: draftsmanship and so like he's good enough to at least 1398 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,200 Speaker 2: apply for the program based off of his skill set. 1399 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,880 Speaker 2: And so then it was the whole like interview, go 1400 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,640 Speaker 2: up there with my portfolio again to talk. 1401 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 1: To miss special in the Marines. 1402 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,920 Speaker 2: It was the same kind of process, and so I 1403 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 2: go up there and I don't remember what her name, 1404 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:26,680 Speaker 2: but I remember was a female was talking in the 1405 01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,400 Speaker 2: ministration office and I was showing her and she was 1406 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 2: looking at my pitiful, you know, placement of all the things, 1407 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,400 Speaker 2: and I was like, Linda, Linda, Linda, listen, no. 1408 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 1: I was just like. 1409 01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,959 Speaker 2: She was like, you are obviously good at dude, like drawing, 1410 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,120 Speaker 2: paint and all this stuff. But what we really are 1411 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,520 Speaker 2: heavy on are like the next big artists, like concept ideas, 1412 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 2: modern art, all this stuff, which this is just lacking. 1413 01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 2: You have like two pieces that really touch on that. 1414 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,360 Speaker 2: And I had to be like, listen, I am either. 1415 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,320 Speaker 2: I was just discovered art for the first time ever 1416 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,160 Speaker 2: and it's completely changed to save my life. But here's 1417 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,200 Speaker 2: what I want to create with your school. I want 1418 01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 2: you to know what it feels like to be blown up, 1419 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,000 Speaker 2: but without being blown up. I want you to know 1420 01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 2: what loss of innocence in the war looks like when 1421 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:13,920 Speaker 2: you have to save a life, take of life, be 1422 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,840 Speaker 2: blown up. I was like, and I only think I 1423 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 2: could do that through your school. I was like, I 1424 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,360 Speaker 2: could show people what this is. And so she called 1425 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 2: in someone else and that guy came in and listened 1426 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,040 Speaker 2: to my shpiel again and they're like, okay, let's give 1427 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,080 Speaker 2: him a shot, and they let me into that school. 1428 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 2: The issue was I had the old Montgomery jibill, which 1429 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,040 Speaker 2: doesn't pay for private tuition, and so I knew at 1430 01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,080 Speaker 2: that moment it was another crossroad. Like God put so 1431 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:36,920 Speaker 2: many different crossroads in my life where I just kept 1432 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,880 Speaker 2: taking that hard path because it was okay. The state 1433 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,480 Speaker 2: of Illinois actually has this veteran grant and the jibill 1434 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,040 Speaker 2: paid me, So I was actually getting paid to go 1435 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,160 Speaker 2: to school because I was double dipping, and that's what 1436 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:49,760 Speaker 2: most people do. Know. It wasn't illegal, but I was 1437 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 2: doing it both of them. But knowing that I was 1438 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,960 Speaker 2: gonna go to the school meant I forfeited both those 1439 01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 2: the Illinois grant didn't cover and the gibuild didn't cover. 1440 01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,800 Speaker 2: So I knew at that moment, and I was with 1441 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 2: I was with a relationship for five years, and so 1442 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 2: I knew that if I moved to Chicago and went 1443 01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,680 Speaker 2: to the school, that that would be off and that 1444 01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,160 Speaker 2: I would go on extreme debt. And but I knew 1445 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,720 Speaker 2: that it's kind of like you put the mask on 1446 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 2: yourself before you help someone else. There was no way 1447 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,400 Speaker 2: I could help anybody in my life without helping myself first. 1448 01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,040 Speaker 2: So I was like, I'm going to go and I 1449 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,280 Speaker 2: went there and that happened. I went extreme into debt, 1450 01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,439 Speaker 2: and then even my mom, who didn't have much money, 1451 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,360 Speaker 2: pulled money like nine thousand out or four to one 1452 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,800 Speaker 2: k just to support the stuff that I couldn't support 1453 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 2: outside of the government grants that I got. She's just 1454 01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:32,919 Speaker 2: a saint for doing that because she didn't have any money. 1455 01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,320 Speaker 2: She pulled it out of her house. And so I 1456 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,040 Speaker 2: got into that school and I just pushed at it 1457 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,040 Speaker 2: and it was just it was one of the hardest 1458 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,080 Speaker 2: times in my life, but I knew it was something 1459 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:42,560 Speaker 2: I had to do. 1460 01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:43,240 Speaker 1: How long? 1461 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,200 Speaker 2: So I was there for two and a half years, 1462 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,040 Speaker 2: is what you're saying, Like, how a long? Guys said, yes, 1463 01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,520 Speaker 2: two and a half years. And that was truly You 1464 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,840 Speaker 2: imagine when I said, like, I went to an art 1465 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 2: school like everything you imagine, like the skinny jeans, skinny cigarettes, 1466 01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,920 Speaker 2: blue hair, like that's the school I had. Actually, it 1467 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,360 Speaker 2: was like reverse Bulliam. I was like an elevator and 1468 01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:04,040 Speaker 2: someone's like, why. 1469 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:04,480 Speaker 1: Are you here? 1470 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,080 Speaker 2: Like they were picking on me for being there, and uh, 1471 01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just. 1472 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,400 Speaker 1: Bigger than you. No. 1473 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 2: I was just to me, I just hear do art 1474 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,000 Speaker 2: just like you are. Because I was still very recluse 1475 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,320 Speaker 2: and just didn't want to speak to people and do 1476 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,880 Speaker 2: stuff because I still had such bad anxiety. But being 1477 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,439 Speaker 2: there completely changed me. It's what I call the worried 1478 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 2: brain to artist brain transition, where I learned to tap 1479 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,080 Speaker 2: into my subconscious like what you mentioned earlier. Driving to school. 1480 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,000 Speaker 2: Did I feel like I was blown up? No, none 1481 01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:37,400 Speaker 2: of us do. But when I found out as an 1482 01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,960 Speaker 2: artist that that's why I had anxiety. So I do 1483 01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,880 Speaker 2: art around it. I could take photos of everything I 1484 01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 2: saw on the way to school and put it up 1485 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,000 Speaker 2: on the board. And now you knew as a civilian 1486 01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:46,680 Speaker 2: what I saw when I came into class. Just a 1487 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:47,440 Speaker 2: bunch of bombs. 1488 01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,200 Speaker 1: At some point, you did ceramics. 1489 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,760 Speaker 2: That was at the school. I didn't know what ceramics were. Again, 1490 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:53,520 Speaker 2: I was so are dumb? 1491 01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,160 Speaker 1: I did drink coffee out of it, That's what I said. 1492 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,480 Speaker 2: My roommate was like, I'm in the ceramics apartment. I 1493 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,560 Speaker 2: was like what it was like pound plates, glasses and 1494 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,920 Speaker 2: cups together, Like what do you do? It's like, no, 1495 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,120 Speaker 2: it's clay. I was like, Oh, that's what happens. Like 1496 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,720 Speaker 2: you get clay and you get to play with it, 1497 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,360 Speaker 2: like because even my high school didn't have clay, and. 1498 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,960 Speaker 1: So and no doubt your parents were buying play does. 1499 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so he was like it's all free, So 1500 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,400 Speaker 2: you can come down here with me when I'm when 1501 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,600 Speaker 2: I'm in this class, when my first semester I had 1502 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,400 Speaker 2: my drawling collage, all these classes and I go down 1503 01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,920 Speaker 2: there with him and I start just playing with clay, 1504 01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,520 Speaker 2: and it brought me back to childhood, where're like everything 1505 01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,960 Speaker 2: you made looked like something different, and so you just 1506 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 2: kept building, destroying, building destroyed, and I was like, for 1507 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,320 Speaker 2: three hours, I didn't think about war. That's weird because 1508 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,760 Speaker 2: I always think about war or something. And I felt good, again, 1509 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:41,920 Speaker 2: what is this voody wiscraft? Like what just happened to me? 1510 01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,040 Speaker 2: And so that's all I signed up for it. I 1511 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,439 Speaker 2: didn't know what I was going to create. I wasn't 1512 01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,200 Speaker 2: good at it. I just said. That was the cool 1513 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 2: thing about that school was no matter what you went 1514 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 2: in on, you could do whatever you wanted. You can 1515 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,880 Speaker 2: come in on painting and ended up being a performance artist. 1516 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,840 Speaker 1: And they're still dealing with anxiety and PSD and all that. 1517 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,800 Speaker 2: And so that now was my safe zone. That was 1518 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,400 Speaker 2: like that physical theory there, like just being able to 1519 01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,200 Speaker 2: mend and mold and not think about anything. So everything else. 1520 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,760 Speaker 2: I put as many ceramics classes as I could on there. 1521 01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,120 Speaker 1: So that's what I might talking about, being blown up 1522 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,240 Speaker 1: with ceramics. 1523 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,080 Speaker 2: Not at first, it was just like, you know, what's 1524 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:14,880 Speaker 2: crazy too, is you dive in your soap. Kind of 1525 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:16,640 Speaker 2: the reason we do the things we do in our 1526 01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 2: daily life is because of everything in our path, but 1527 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,560 Speaker 2: most of it is so subconscious we don't even know it. 1528 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,360 Speaker 2: And a perfect example of this is in my studio. 1529 01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 2: I have all these pieces I'm building and I start 1530 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,880 Speaker 2: from scratch. A lot of the is like I'll create 1531 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,120 Speaker 2: something and I'll coil it up and build what I 1532 01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,920 Speaker 2: see and create some sort of military like something about me. 1533 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,600 Speaker 2: I'll find it while i'm building. And this one time 1534 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,400 Speaker 2: I had this piece and it had like four little loops. 1535 01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,520 Speaker 2: I started. I built this thing real big, and I 1536 01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,520 Speaker 2: put it up on this table and my instructor comes 1537 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,280 Speaker 2: in and I have this like coffee cup in my 1538 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,520 Speaker 2: hand that I go, I turn, I set it on 1539 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,040 Speaker 2: the the my art piece, and he's like, why'd you 1540 01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:58,640 Speaker 2: do that? And I was like, what do you mean? 1541 01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,680 Speaker 2: He's like, why'd you set that coffee cup up there? 1542 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,240 Speaker 2: Is that a table? It's like, no, that's my art 1543 01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,800 Speaker 2: piece that I'm making. He's like, yeah, but is it 1544 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,600 Speaker 2: a table? And I was like, no, it's one of 1545 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,120 Speaker 2: my art pieces. He's like, then, why'd you set your 1546 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,280 Speaker 2: coffee cup up there? He's like, your body's gonna react 1547 01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,600 Speaker 2: for your mind es. He's like, your body and your 1548 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,480 Speaker 2: mind are telling you this. And I looked at it 1549 01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,440 Speaker 2: and I was like, holy crap, this is like a 1550 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 2: legit pedestal coffee tape. I was just creating designs and 1551 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,840 Speaker 2: building it up, but it was legitibly something to put 1552 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,640 Speaker 2: other art pieces on. And it was that moment where 1553 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,960 Speaker 2: I was like, we do this in our daily lives. 1554 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,800 Speaker 2: Anxiety and everything else is that way? If how I 1555 01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,640 Speaker 2: explain and I always say, like find your why, whether 1556 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,400 Speaker 2: it's a fake why or not, because imagine We're in 1557 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,360 Speaker 2: a room of one hundred people and I come up 1558 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,440 Speaker 2: to you and I'm like, hey, this person's gonna or 1559 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, one of these people is gonna try 1560 01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 2: to kill you. That's anxiety. That's when you're like, no 1561 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,080 Speaker 2: matter how well you're trained, you're gonna process like one 1562 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,160 Speaker 2: hundred different people. What am I gonna do? We're the exits. 1563 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:54,640 Speaker 1: How do I do? 1564 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,840 Speaker 2: Like, that's your body. But if I gave you the 1565 01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,920 Speaker 2: same scenario and I said, that person in the back 1566 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:00,440 Speaker 2: of the room is the one's gonna try I kill you, 1567 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,720 Speaker 2: you have a whole different reaction. You're like, oh that person, 1568 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:07,160 Speaker 2: the door's over here, you start. You're more calm in 1569 01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:11,160 Speaker 2: that process because you know what's going to be doing that. 1570 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,800 Speaker 2: So when I was driving to school, it was the 1571 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,439 Speaker 2: chaotic why. It was like, why is my body reacting 1572 01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,639 Speaker 2: to this? I didn't see anything. I was just why 1573 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,960 Speaker 2: am I getting sick? Why am I doing this stuff? 1574 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,840 Speaker 2: I became an artist. It was also identified it. Once 1575 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,559 Speaker 2: I identified it, I did photos of photo art piece 1576 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,599 Speaker 2: around it, which then got rid of it. So because 1577 01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,280 Speaker 2: I knew the why, I was able to attack the why. 1578 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,479 Speaker 1: It's interesting say that your body and your subconscious speaks 1579 01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,280 Speaker 1: to you before your brain does. That's the big brain, 1580 01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,400 Speaker 1: little brain. Then I have a business version of that, 1581 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,600 Speaker 1: but it translates to everybody metaphorically, which is have you 1582 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:52,000 Speaker 1: ever had something bad happen and your immediate first reaction 1583 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:58,680 Speaker 1: is myknew I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, Well, that 1584 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,240 Speaker 1: is a reminder that when you made the decision that 1585 01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,200 Speaker 1: worked out poorly, your subconscious was telling you not to 1586 01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:14,080 Speaker 1: do it, yep, but your ego overroaded your psyche's ability 1587 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,320 Speaker 1: to tell you not to do it. But you did 1588 01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,720 Speaker 1: it anyway, which is why when something goes bad and 1589 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,120 Speaker 1: you think to yourself, I knew I should have done that. 1590 01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,920 Speaker 1: Your ego was overriding your subconscious yep. 1591 01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:27,720 Speaker 2: And you probably never actually heard yourself say it. 1592 01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,000 Speaker 1: You never heard yourself say it, but you just remember, 1593 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, And when you say that, I mean that 1594 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,639 Speaker 1: makes a really lot a ton of sense. The difference 1595 01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:43,560 Speaker 1: is I'm talking about making a decision about selling a 1596 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,599 Speaker 1: load of lumper for a price versus another price. You're 1597 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,479 Speaker 1: talking about the decision about twenty two year olds that 1598 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,160 Speaker 1: have come home with horrific experiences, wondering or not if 1599 01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,320 Speaker 1: they should try to continue on with life or not. Yeah, 1600 01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:21,800 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. So you transition out of art 1601 01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,639 Speaker 1: and you're graduating, and I've read you said I'm eighty 1602 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,600 Speaker 1: five percent, which means you're covering and arts help and 1603 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:34,479 Speaker 1: you recover, and then you think, well, if that helps me. 1604 01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I talked about that nine being a nine, 1605 01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,519 Speaker 2: and to me, it's like after our school and learning 1606 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,120 Speaker 2: how to tell my story, and I did four years 1607 01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,519 Speaker 2: of being able to do that through music. I started 1608 01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,920 Speaker 2: teaching myself guitar because I was like, well if I 1609 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,280 Speaker 2: want to if I could write down my fuddy story, 1610 01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,040 Speaker 2: why can't I just give a tune and walk away, 1611 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,519 Speaker 2: so that now you could hear his story. I don't 1612 01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:57,240 Speaker 2: have to cry in front of you. You could just 1613 01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,600 Speaker 2: hear it that he lived and I walk away. And 1614 01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,360 Speaker 2: so I did four years of this where I was 1615 01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,760 Speaker 2: writing his story, trying to write make music, making art 1616 01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:05,800 Speaker 2: about my brain injury and everything else I was going through. 1617 01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:07,880 Speaker 2: So when I graduated and I was at like an 1618 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,120 Speaker 2: eighty five percent back to normal Richard, and I was 1619 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:12,600 Speaker 2: able to go out and do things and not be 1620 01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,639 Speaker 2: a stress. I still had anxieties and some other stuff, 1621 01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,280 Speaker 2: but I was back to livable, like one hundred percent 1622 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,479 Speaker 2: livable Richard, but eighty five percent truly me. And I 1623 01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,640 Speaker 2: looked back and I said, well, it was just the 1624 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,479 Speaker 2: education around, like the process I'm telling you, like finding 1625 01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,719 Speaker 2: your why and like baby stepping in tell your story 1626 01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,719 Speaker 2: and saying everything without saying anything. That was the process 1627 01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,920 Speaker 2: of education. Not art therapy, music therapy. It was art education, 1628 01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,679 Speaker 2: music education, and just utilizing it in the right ways. 1629 01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,400 Speaker 2: And so I go through this whole process and now 1630 01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, now I'm gonna do it. I'm going 1631 01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:44,800 Speaker 2: to join the FBI, joined the CIA, I even went 1632 01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:48,200 Speaker 2: to like a government hiring thing, And I really looked 1633 01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,000 Speaker 2: back and I was like, how selfish of me to 1634 01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 2: think that I just discovered something that doesn't really exist 1635 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,320 Speaker 2: the way that it should exist. And I wouldn't pursue 1636 01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:59,360 Speaker 2: this to help other people who are not going to 1637 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,200 Speaker 2: see this as an option. I didn't see this as 1638 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,519 Speaker 2: an option. I would have told you day one, I'm 1639 01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,240 Speaker 2: never gonna do that. It's because I fell into it. 1640 01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:07,960 Speaker 2: So then I was like, well, how do I make 1641 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,240 Speaker 2: people fall into this? And can I even create a 1642 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,920 Speaker 2: program in just a few days or a few weeks 1643 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,040 Speaker 2: that is as impactful as my four years of figuring 1644 01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,719 Speaker 2: this out? And so through the process, I was sitting 1645 01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:22,160 Speaker 2: here thinking, well, I only told was able to tell 1646 01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,400 Speaker 2: my story through song because I met a guy at 1647 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,000 Speaker 2: a bar who's doing a writer's round and he has 1648 01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,879 Speaker 2: nine number one hits. I think he wrote Alan Jackson's 1649 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,200 Speaker 2: first number one here in the Free World, and he 1650 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,800 Speaker 2: wrote like Sangria and Highway, Don't Care, Tim Mogol, Taylor Swhip, 1651 01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,080 Speaker 2: all these all these epic songs, and I just approached 1652 01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:42,600 Speaker 2: him one day at the bar I worked at and 1653 01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,439 Speaker 2: I was off that time, and he was doing his 1654 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,640 Speaker 2: round up in Chicago, and I said, Hey, I've been 1655 01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,400 Speaker 2: trying to tell my story through song for a year 1656 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:53,479 Speaker 2: and I just can't write. I can't put Luke on 1657 01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,320 Speaker 2: a pedestal he needs to be on. If I come 1658 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,000 Speaker 2: to you in Nashville, just drive down there, will you 1659 01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:59,639 Speaker 2: sit with me and help me tell my story? Because 1660 01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:01,479 Speaker 2: there's to be easier way to do this than me 1661 01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,960 Speaker 2: trying on my own. You obviously doing this for a living. 1662 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,719 Speaker 2: And he said yeah to me and nobody from Chicago 1663 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,880 Speaker 2: just like okay, And I didn't know how big of 1664 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,840 Speaker 2: a deal that actually was. Two months later, I come 1665 01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,760 Speaker 2: down there and we write a song and a half 1666 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,080 Speaker 2: in like three hours. So the first hour and a 1667 01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:18,960 Speaker 2: half we had a song and I'm sitting here, I've 1668 01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,760 Speaker 2: been trying this for a whole year and you took 1669 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,439 Speaker 2: my words and put it in a song an hour 1670 01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:27,480 Speaker 2: and a half. This is insane. So now that experience, 1671 01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,200 Speaker 2: on top of me graduating and being like I'm almost 1672 01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,320 Speaker 2: back to normal, was like, how do I now just 1673 01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,760 Speaker 2: bring veterans to Nashville to tell their story because it 1674 01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:39,719 Speaker 2: absolutely saved my life. And so that was the process 1675 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,120 Speaker 2: that my brain was going through when I decided that, 1676 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,600 Speaker 2: I was like, I wanted to start a nonprofit that 1677 01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,120 Speaker 2: helped veterans heal through the arts and music. 1678 01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:53,800 Speaker 1: Which is phenomenal. So now, after we got the extensive 1679 01:13:53,880 --> 01:14:00,120 Speaker 1: background and unbelievable story, Richard Casper founded Great Events. But 1680 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,160 Speaker 1: the first year it was really just six or seven 1681 01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:04,000 Speaker 1: or eight guys. 1682 01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,960 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and I technically co founded it. There's a 1683 01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:10,360 Speaker 2: lovely lady named Linda Tarsan who's in Chicago, who's a philanthropist, 1684 01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,439 Speaker 2: who I didn't know how to start a nonprofit and 1685 01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:13,920 Speaker 2: I was just having lunch with her one day. That's 1686 01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,080 Speaker 2: a whole another long story how we got to lunch, 1687 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,280 Speaker 2: but just having lunch one day after I wrote with 1688 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,040 Speaker 2: a veteran saying like, oh I wish I could just 1689 01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:21,920 Speaker 2: turn this into something where I could save more veterans. 1690 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:23,040 Speaker 2: She's like, Okay, let's do it. 1691 01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,679 Speaker 1: And so she helped me understand it's good. 1692 01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,720 Speaker 2: So she had five board members come on, I had 1693 01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,800 Speaker 2: a few of my friends and veterans come on, and 1694 01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,840 Speaker 2: then we started Creatives in twenty thirteen. So I always 1695 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,320 Speaker 2: like to make a note that she helped me co 1696 01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,560 Speaker 2: found Creative a's because we never, you know, truly do 1697 01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:37,479 Speaker 2: these things on our own. 1698 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,680 Speaker 1: So tell me about how it went that first year, 1699 01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:42,120 Speaker 1: which just. 1700 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,240 Speaker 2: So it was only nine I think nine total veterans 1701 01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:48,360 Speaker 2: through the songwriting program because that's all we had money for. 1702 01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,479 Speaker 2: And I would just like as veterans came in, I 1703 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,439 Speaker 2: wouldn't find them. I would be like, Okay, we're now 1704 01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,160 Speaker 2: going to go to Nashville together because I didn't live 1705 01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,720 Speaker 2: in Nashville, and each time we went to Nashville, I 1706 01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:59,799 Speaker 2: would recruit more songwriters while I was with the veteran 1707 01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,479 Speaker 2: so i'd have one group. The first group that officially 1708 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,680 Speaker 2: wrote with us outside of Mark writing with me was 1709 01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,160 Speaker 2: the band called Blackjack Billy, and two or three of 1710 01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,400 Speaker 2: them were number one songwriters like in their own right, 1711 01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,599 Speaker 2: they wrote songs but also did music. So I met 1712 01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:16,000 Speaker 2: them in Florida when they're performing, just said, Hey, I 1713 01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:17,680 Speaker 2: want to bring veterans to Nashville. You write with them? 1714 01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,760 Speaker 2: They said yes, So like are. 1715 01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,639 Speaker 1: You telling veterans? Look, man, I know I've been there. 1716 01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,599 Speaker 1: You can't tell your story too much, anxiety, too much everything, 1717 01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,559 Speaker 1: But you can tell your story without having to speak 1718 01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,040 Speaker 1: up to the public by putting it down and having 1719 01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:35,800 Speaker 1: a song about it, so what I do or some 1720 01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,960 Speaker 1: of them looking at you going dude, you're not well. 1721 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:39,800 Speaker 2: No, At first, it was like my I knew who 1722 01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,880 Speaker 2: was suffering from my friend group, and I would just 1723 01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:43,439 Speaker 2: be like, hey, do you want to go to Nashville 1724 01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:44,200 Speaker 2: and write with the number one? 1725 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,000 Speaker 1: You write you out to guys that you're close with 1726 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:46,439 Speaker 1: me at. 1727 01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:48,280 Speaker 2: First because it was like the refer like we always 1728 01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,519 Speaker 2: know who's suffering with our friends, and so the first 1729 01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:51,960 Speaker 2: person ever to go through it was more of like 1730 01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,400 Speaker 2: a a he knows he was like a tester, but 1731 01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 2: he is what like a tester to see if this 1732 01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,120 Speaker 2: program actually would work? But he also he lost his 1733 01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,760 Speaker 2: leg overseas, has sixty percent burns over his body, in 1734 01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,320 Speaker 2: his face, and he did not like telling his story. 1735 01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:06,200 Speaker 2: So he is the perfect person for me to approach 1736 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:07,680 Speaker 2: to see if he didn't even do something like. 1737 01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:10,240 Speaker 1: This, was he ashamed? I don't know. 1738 01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,519 Speaker 2: I mean, he's he would probably never stay ashamed. He's 1739 01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:13,080 Speaker 2: just hard working. 1740 01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:14,760 Speaker 1: He just doesn't want to Why did he want to 1741 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:15,080 Speaker 1: tell him? 1742 01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,160 Speaker 2: He's one of those guys he just doesn't talk like no, 1743 01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:18,400 Speaker 2: that doesn't affect. 1744 01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,439 Speaker 1: Me, Like he's like he still had an internalized yeah. 1745 01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and and honestly it doesn't like his physical He 1746 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:25,519 Speaker 2: doesn't want you to be like, treat him different because 1747 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,680 Speaker 2: he's lost his leg. He still climbs towers like with 1748 01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,479 Speaker 2: his leg like that. He'd yeah, he is salted or 1749 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:32,920 Speaker 2: just doesn't want you to treat him differently. Not that 1750 01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,000 Speaker 2: he hasn't processed a lot of this stuff, more like he's. 1751 01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,080 Speaker 1: But still he's carrying that story and something. Yeah, and 1752 01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,960 Speaker 1: SI's probably creating anxiety and PTSD, right, and you see that. 1753 01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,320 Speaker 2: And so I go to him and I'm like, dude, 1754 01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,800 Speaker 2: you want to come to Nashville with me. We're going 1755 01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:47,680 Speaker 2: to write a song with a number one songwriter and 1756 01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,360 Speaker 2: tell your story through it's And he trusted me because 1757 01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 2: he knows my story and I know his story. And 1758 01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:53,400 Speaker 2: I was like, don't worry, I'm going to be through 1759 01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:54,880 Speaker 2: the whole process. I'm gonna be with you when you're 1760 01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 2: writing and everything. But he's like, I've never heard of 1761 01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,000 Speaker 2: yes from him so fast because his love for music. 1762 01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:01,160 Speaker 1: Was so great awesome. 1763 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,280 Speaker 2: So when I talk about what we do and anybody, 1764 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 2: if you want to serve anybody, if you could outweigh 1765 01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:10,120 Speaker 2: their anxieties and depression. With excitement, you can get them 1766 01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,280 Speaker 2: to do almost anything. And so when I'm like, you 1767 01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,200 Speaker 2: want to come to Nashville write on music road with 1768 01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:16,360 Speaker 2: a number one songwriter, it's so hard. That's like a 1769 01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,639 Speaker 2: bucket list thing then nobody could do. So yeah, I'll 1770 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,479 Speaker 2: do that. But also, we're gonna tell your story. But 1771 01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:23,120 Speaker 2: don't worry, I'm gonna be with you the whole time. 1772 01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,160 Speaker 2: So I work with them on an idea and everything 1773 01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:27,680 Speaker 2: we're like building up. I'm like, this is what we're 1774 01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:29,280 Speaker 2: gonna say. We're we got it keyed in. Don't worry. 1775 01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:30,800 Speaker 2: I'm gonna speak for you when we get in there. 1776 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,639 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna ask you to tell you like about 1777 01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,040 Speaker 2: the song. And that's another psychological thing you do. You 1778 01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:38,439 Speaker 2: don't say, hey, tell your story. You say, hey, tell 1779 01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:40,599 Speaker 2: them what the song's gonna be about, which is their story, 1780 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:41,679 Speaker 2: but they see it as a song. 1781 01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,679 Speaker 1: Kind of like kind of like, hey, Richard, you don't 1782 01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,519 Speaker 1: have to talk about your art, but we'll tell you 1783 01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:49,280 Speaker 1: what you're saying. 1784 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:53,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing like love blood yeah, or if you 1785 01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,840 Speaker 2: have background or if you poured my when I poured 1786 01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,040 Speaker 2: my heart into that art, it's like, oh, well, this 1787 01:17:58,240 --> 01:17:59,920 Speaker 2: art is saying everything for me, or I could talk 1788 01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:01,880 Speaker 2: about my art piece, like if you were all looking 1789 01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:02,120 Speaker 2: at me. 1790 01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,559 Speaker 1: Oh, because now you're not talking about you. Yeah, you're 1791 01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,240 Speaker 1: talking about the art yep, So I can be which 1792 01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:08,320 Speaker 1: is a degree of separation. 1793 01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:11,040 Speaker 2: It is you're separation. You're projecting it onto there, which 1794 01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,120 Speaker 2: makes it a lot safer because there's no communication to 1795 01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:13,559 Speaker 2: you directly. 1796 01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:14,479 Speaker 1: So that's what's happening with you. 1797 01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:16,720 Speaker 2: That's what's having a song because it's like, oh, I'm 1798 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:19,240 Speaker 2: talking about my song, not the time my friend died, 1799 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,479 Speaker 2: but you're talking about the time your friend died. But 1800 01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,639 Speaker 2: it's the song idea, so and oddly it's healing. Yeah. 1801 01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,599 Speaker 2: And so he was talking about how it doesn't it's 1802 01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,040 Speaker 2: called until it feels like home because he walked through 1803 01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,240 Speaker 2: Hell for so long it felt comfortable to him, and 1804 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,840 Speaker 2: so when he came back home, he's like, this is 1805 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,439 Speaker 2: comfortable to me. I know it's weird to say, but 1806 01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,400 Speaker 2: I was trained for this and this is what I do. 1807 01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:43,160 Speaker 2: So now I feel uncomfortable being home because Hell felt 1808 01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:45,800 Speaker 2: so much more comfortable to the kind of reverse roles, 1809 01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:48,560 Speaker 2: which is weird to think about. And he wrote this 1810 01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,600 Speaker 2: song and he loved it so much. He sent it 1811 01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:52,800 Speaker 2: to all those people he couldn't talk to, and I 1812 01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:54,200 Speaker 2: had his like sister. 1813 01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,160 Speaker 1: So like friends and family that he couldn't talk to. 1814 01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,560 Speaker 1: He just set the song and like, listen, if you 1815 01:18:58,600 --> 01:18:59,920 Speaker 1: want to understand, just listen to a song. 1816 01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:01,760 Speaker 2: No, he didn't even do that, because I call it 1817 01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,519 Speaker 2: tricking them into healing, because he didn't know he was. 1818 01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,920 Speaker 2: He was so excited. He just had a song he 1819 01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,000 Speaker 2: wrote in Nashville. He was sentenced to everyone, like I 1820 01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:11,160 Speaker 2: just wrote this song in Nashville. 1821 01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:11,720 Speaker 1: It's pretty bad. 1822 01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:12,680 Speaker 2: It's like check it out. 1823 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:15,240 Speaker 1: And uh So he didn't even know he was telling us. 1824 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,720 Speaker 2: No, he kind of is the subconscious thing, like he 1825 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,200 Speaker 2: knew he needed to get this out, but the forefron 1826 01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:21,920 Speaker 2: of your brain's just like I need to share this 1827 01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,120 Speaker 2: with everyone, Like I wrote a song in Nashville. 1828 01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,120 Speaker 1: With another way, you're seeing this or you're sitting there 1829 01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,320 Speaker 1: bobbing your head up and down going I'll be damn 1830 01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:28,760 Speaker 1: this work. 1831 01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like within knowing. And he was the first 1832 01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:33,800 Speaker 2: person to say that three hour Ryne session helped me 1833 01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:35,639 Speaker 2: more than eight years. I've been at the VA Hospital 1834 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,439 Speaker 2: and like stuff like that where I'm just like there's 1835 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,960 Speaker 2: magic here, like for him to him too, just to 1836 01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,040 Speaker 2: even come down here, be willing to come down here. 1837 01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:44,760 Speaker 2: I was like, I think I just found something that's 1838 01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:46,400 Speaker 2: gonna help a lot of veterans who aren't seeking help. 1839 01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:48,800 Speaker 2: Because if you go back to those suicide numbers, even 1840 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,559 Speaker 2: if you based off the twenty suicides a day, fourteen 1841 01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:53,760 Speaker 2: of those twenty don't seek help. So fourteen of those 1842 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,120 Speaker 2: twenty don't even go to the VA or go to nonprofits. 1843 01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,599 Speaker 2: So you're talking about a group of people who don't 1844 01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,360 Speaker 2: want to be helped and are not searching help. So 1845 01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,599 Speaker 2: you can have the you can have a program that's 1846 01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,160 Speaker 2: one hundred percent effective and eighty percent of people aren't 1847 01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:06,519 Speaker 2: coming to it, So how do you build it so 1848 01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:08,360 Speaker 2: that you make them come to it? And that's what 1849 01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:08,880 Speaker 2: this was. 1850 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,639 Speaker 1: So after that first year of helping eight or nine. 1851 01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:14,439 Speaker 2: And after the first three, it was people I never 1852 01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,759 Speaker 2: knew before, and that was really cool, the first veteran 1853 01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:17,439 Speaker 2: to pip out for the. 1854 01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,080 Speaker 1: First three guys, So that first year, even that the 1855 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:21,679 Speaker 1: remainder of those nine. 1856 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 2: There were all just people who heard through the Great 1857 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,040 Speaker 2: Fighter were like Jesse was like, my cousin is really suffering. 1858 01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:30,120 Speaker 2: He was in Afghanistan and he lost a buddy and 1859 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:31,840 Speaker 2: I call that dude, and that dude would be like, hey, 1860 01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:35,040 Speaker 2: my buddy I served with is suffering. And then organically 1861 01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,519 Speaker 2: people just started applying out of the woodwork, just being like, hey, 1862 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,080 Speaker 2: I did this is my last option. I don't have 1863 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,639 Speaker 2: any other resort, but I just want to I want 1864 01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,639 Speaker 2: to come to Nashville write a song. Was the process, 1865 01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,120 Speaker 2: and the moment I picked up the phone, I'd say, hey, 1866 01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,840 Speaker 2: I'm Richard. I was blown up four times. I watched 1867 01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:51,479 Speaker 2: my friend get shot and kill beside me, What did 1868 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,080 Speaker 2: you go through? So instantly breaks that ice, and they 1869 01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,479 Speaker 2: feel comfortable enough to say, tell me what they said 1870 01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,840 Speaker 2: or what they went through. And they tell me things 1871 01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:00,760 Speaker 2: probably sixty percent of the time, they tell me things 1872 01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,479 Speaker 2: they never told anybody, not even their family or the 1873 01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,280 Speaker 2: Marines they served with, like whatever it was because I 1874 01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,120 Speaker 2: was a stranger who understood them, kind of like when 1875 01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:09,559 Speaker 2: you call it, if you called Sucson Hotline, you're more 1876 01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:11,360 Speaker 2: open to talk to a stranger than someone who knows 1877 01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:12,760 Speaker 2: you because you feel like you're not going to be 1878 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,720 Speaker 2: like judged for it. And so when they told me that, 1879 01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:18,240 Speaker 2: I'd be like, you know what, a really cool song 1880 01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:20,320 Speaker 2: idea would be about, and then we go into it 1881 01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,840 Speaker 2: and I'd get them so excited about their own story 1882 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,040 Speaker 2: and be like, oh, dude, that would be a good story. 1883 01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:26,560 Speaker 2: That would be a good song. I'm like, you know 1884 01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:28,559 Speaker 2: who I paired you up with. This guy has six 1885 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,160 Speaker 2: number ones and they're like, oh my gosh what. I'm like, yeah, 1886 01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,080 Speaker 2: and we're paying for your flights, your food, you're housing, 1887 01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:34,720 Speaker 2: and I'm going to spend the whole time with you. 1888 01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:37,240 Speaker 2: It's like your new battle buddy. So it was just 1889 01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:38,080 Speaker 2: it was awesome. 1890 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:43,400 Speaker 1: So now you're doing the song thing, but what got 1891 01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:44,880 Speaker 1: you out of it really was art. 1892 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,880 Speaker 2: And so now you say, well, because we didn't have 1893 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:49,559 Speaker 2: enough money to do anything outside of like. 1894 01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, because these guys aren't paying for you're raising. 1895 01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,559 Speaker 2: From the get go, because there's friction points for receiving help. 1896 01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:00,240 Speaker 2: Some of the frictions money, some of the frictions like again, 1897 01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:02,920 Speaker 2: your anxiety is too bad, so you need excite me 1898 01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,720 Speaker 2: to way you're anxiety in order to get over. Some 1899 01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:07,560 Speaker 2: of us need battle buddies. We need to know what 1900 01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,720 Speaker 2: it's like to have someone to go through something we did. 1901 01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,360 Speaker 2: So I had to have a battle buddy and financially 1902 01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:14,720 Speaker 2: everything had to be paid for. So that was day 1903 01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,040 Speaker 2: one a no non starter for me. If we didn't 1904 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,120 Speaker 2: have a nonprofit that didn't do that, then why even 1905 01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:22,320 Speaker 2: start one. And within the first nine veterans, we helped 1906 01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:24,879 Speaker 2: one Native American marine from the Foothill Tribes of Montana. 1907 01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,160 Speaker 2: It costs over two grand just for his flight, which 1908 01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,360 Speaker 2: is unheard of for the other what we were spending. 1909 01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,559 Speaker 2: We only raised like eighteen thousand cash that first year, 1910 01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,200 Speaker 2: and so to think, but I was like, he doesn't 1911 01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,320 Speaker 2: have access to this, so of course I'm going to 1912 01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,160 Speaker 2: put him on this list and fly him out here 1913 01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:40,600 Speaker 2: and put him up and write his song. So it 1914 01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,320 Speaker 2: was that. But I knew I needed the art program, 1915 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:44,960 Speaker 2: and I didn't know what that looked like yet. I 1916 01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:47,960 Speaker 2: just knew I needed to build something. And so I 1917 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,519 Speaker 2: went back to that school and to the School of 1918 01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:53,400 Speaker 2: the Arts Shoo Chicago, and I was like, I didn't 1919 01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:54,720 Speaker 2: know what I wanted to do. I didn't have a 1920 01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,519 Speaker 2: game plan. Really, I just knew we needed a program. 1921 01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,160 Speaker 2: I didn't even know that program look like, which is 1922 01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:00,800 Speaker 2: the worst pitch ever, Just be going there back, you 1923 01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,200 Speaker 2: want to do something with me? I have an art program, 1924 01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,439 Speaker 2: but it's not a program yet. We can make it 1925 01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,479 Speaker 2: a program. It's like the worst pitch ever. And so 1926 01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,640 Speaker 2: I get a meeting with the vice provis and his 1927 01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,400 Speaker 2: name's Paul Coffee, and I'm just like, you know, this 1928 01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:17,360 Speaker 2: school absolutely saved my life, and I think that I 1929 01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:20,120 Speaker 2: could probably build a program that saves other veterans. But 1930 01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,439 Speaker 2: what I need you guys do is like eliminate the 1931 01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,439 Speaker 2: whole art background part of it. I want to help 1932 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,960 Speaker 2: non artist veterans come through your program. And I don't 1933 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,680 Speaker 2: know if it's just pairing up with a teacher or 1934 01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,080 Speaker 2: something like that and teach them. He's like, you know 1935 01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:35,040 Speaker 2: what we do, you could be the teacher. I'm like 1936 01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:37,840 Speaker 2: what He's like, Yeah, He's like, let's do this. 1937 01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:38,400 Speaker 1: Let's do this. 1938 01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:40,759 Speaker 2: You just you get veterans they apply through this program. 1939 01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,200 Speaker 2: And I'm like blown away how quickly he said yes 1940 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:46,200 Speaker 2: to me, being like, let's just build something on a 1941 01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,960 Speaker 2: whim and I can be an instructor. So talk about 1942 01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,120 Speaker 2: kind of like posture syndrome. You know already Garden President 1943 01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,080 Speaker 2: was kind of crazy. Just be like, I'm guard the 1944 01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,760 Speaker 2: idea of me, Garden President from Washburn, Now, the idea 1945 01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:58,680 Speaker 2: of me not being an artist now teaching at the 1946 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,280 Speaker 2: best art school in the country for my program or anything. 1947 01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,559 Speaker 2: It was just like, what is my life? Like, how 1948 01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,679 Speaker 2: is this even an opportunity? But it's because I asked 1949 01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,640 Speaker 2: for it. I asked to be a part of this, 1950 01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:10,920 Speaker 2: and I just didn't care because at the end of 1951 01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:12,720 Speaker 2: the day, it's like life is saved if I go 1952 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:15,000 Speaker 2: ask and so that's why I was willing to go 1953 01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:16,880 Speaker 2: up there and ask for it. And then when he 1954 01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:18,600 Speaker 2: said I was a teacher, I just figured I was 1955 01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:20,800 Speaker 2: gonna be like assistant, like just be there and help 1956 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:22,479 Speaker 2: guide them. But he's like, well, have you teach it 1957 01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:24,080 Speaker 2: and we'll just run it and we do three week 1958 01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:25,720 Speaker 2: programming so we could fit it in there. Does that 1959 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,960 Speaker 2: work for you? It was like, I guess that works 1960 01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:29,760 Speaker 2: for me. So then it was on me to build 1961 01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:31,880 Speaker 2: the syllabus and get the program and get the veterans 1962 01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,559 Speaker 2: recruited and find the money. And so that's what we did. 1963 01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:36,519 Speaker 2: Our second year. We ended up running an art program 1964 01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:39,559 Speaker 2: with I think six veterans and it was a sole 1965 01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:41,639 Speaker 2: Vietnam vet who applied. And that was the thing about 1966 01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:43,840 Speaker 2: me too. If you do songwriting, I'm not gonna let 1967 01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:45,360 Speaker 2: you do songwriting. I want you to do urt. I 1968 01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:47,000 Speaker 2: want to teach you a new skill set to save 1969 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:48,840 Speaker 2: your life. Like, if you're doing songwriting, it doesn't work. 1970 01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:50,439 Speaker 2: It's not gonna work. I don't care how much you 1971 01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:53,080 Speaker 2: love it. You need to do something different. I think 1972 01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:55,160 Speaker 2: that's where we get in our wheelhouse. We think, like, 1973 01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,280 Speaker 2: you know, hammer's not gonna fix every problem we have 1974 01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:59,360 Speaker 2: in a house. So why is songwriting gonna help every veteran? 1975 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,560 Speaker 2: It's not. And so this old Vietnam vet applied for 1976 01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,240 Speaker 2: a songwriting program. I said, hey, we have this art 1977 01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:06,519 Speaker 2: program in Chicago. He's from la I was like that, 1978 01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:08,479 Speaker 2: I really love you. Go through because I want to 1979 01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,680 Speaker 2: teach you a new skill set. And so he's like, 1980 01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,439 Speaker 2: I actually grew up in Chicago as a dream of 1981 01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,080 Speaker 2: mine to go to that school, just to go to it. 1982 01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,880 Speaker 2: And so he applied for this program, went through it, 1983 01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,240 Speaker 2: and I tell you what, after three weeks he dived 1984 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,200 Speaker 2: in ceramics. He called me two months later be like, Richard, 1985 01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:24,519 Speaker 2: you don't understand what you lit inside of me. He's like, 1986 01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:26,519 Speaker 2: now I'm a part of a seramic collective. I'm going 1987 01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,240 Speaker 2: to college for He's still to this day that was 1988 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,200 Speaker 2: twenty and fifteen. He's still to this day doing ceramics 1989 01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,640 Speaker 2: and it's phenomenal out in La names Walt phenomenal, like 1990 01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:38,120 Speaker 2: completely changed the safest life all because we gave access 1991 01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,400 Speaker 2: and changed his direction and what he thought he needed 1992 01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:41,879 Speaker 2: to what he actually needed. 1993 01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,160 Speaker 1: And away for these guys to express themselves without having 1994 01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,480 Speaker 1: to talk about their trump yep, but they're talking. 1995 01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:50,680 Speaker 2: They are, And that one is I set up differently too, 1996 01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:54,479 Speaker 2: because when I look back, I'm like, I can''t do this, 1997 01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,600 Speaker 2: Like when I look back at how I started Creativet's, 1998 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,719 Speaker 2: I was like, I can't do that like nowadays. Because 1999 01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:03,640 Speaker 2: so these were pretty much there's only one person I 2000 01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:05,120 Speaker 2: actually served with that was in that group of like 2001 01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,000 Speaker 2: six actually seven. I had to kick someone out for 2002 01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:08,840 Speaker 2: threading to kill someone, but that was a whole other story. 2003 01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,240 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna go to Srama's class and I'm gonna 2004 01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,120 Speaker 1: make this knife and then I it. 2005 01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:17,400 Speaker 2: But so they live in the We're paying for their dorms, 2006 01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,719 Speaker 2: they're housing, their food, their their tuition, everything even food 2007 01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:22,920 Speaker 2: for three weeks we're paying for and I live. I 2008 01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,800 Speaker 2: teach the class, but I also live in the dorms 2009 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:26,400 Speaker 2: with them and I'm their ra so like for a 2010 01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,799 Speaker 2: whole three weeks straight, I'm like from finding the veterans, 2011 01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,400 Speaker 2: calling them all, telling them my story, hearing their story, 2012 01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,559 Speaker 2: buying their plane tickets, flying them out there, being there 2013 01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,599 Speaker 2: before to prep all the rooms for them. They're living 2014 01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:39,400 Speaker 2: in dorms. I'm like getting them situated. By the way, 2015 01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:41,639 Speaker 2: I'm your teacher. So nine of them meet me out front. 2016 01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:43,800 Speaker 2: We're going to class Monday through Friday, or Monday through 2017 01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,599 Speaker 2: Friday nine to four. I'll be your teacher. But afterwards, 2018 01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:48,000 Speaker 2: if you want to go out like, I'll take you, 2019 01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,800 Speaker 2: show you Chicago whatever. On the weekends, we buy like 2020 01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,000 Speaker 2: the city pass so they can go to like architecture tour, 2021 01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,800 Speaker 2: like feel like actual students, not like people going through 2022 01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,280 Speaker 2: a program. But on that first day, I do one 2023 01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,360 Speaker 2: on ones with every one of them, cause it'll be 2024 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,160 Speaker 2: a challenge if you don't understand art or want to 2025 01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,000 Speaker 2: understand art, how to explain Picasso to you, Cause I 2026 01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:08,759 Speaker 2: could say, hey, he changed the figure twenty six times 2027 01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,400 Speaker 2: and he did these colors because of this reason, and 2028 01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:13,400 Speaker 2: you're still going it looks like my kid could do that. 2029 01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:16,040 Speaker 2: But if you told me about your friend being shot 2030 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,200 Speaker 2: in a cornfield meta backed out of a pomegranate field, 2031 01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,679 Speaker 2: and I showed you what that looked like in Picasso style. 2032 01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,800 Speaker 2: You'd instantly connect with Picasso. And so that was my 2033 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,000 Speaker 2: whole job, was they would come in this room, just 2034 01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,800 Speaker 2: one on ones, and I would sit there, not like 2035 01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,280 Speaker 2: back to back. Vendors would come in, they tell me 2036 01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:34,040 Speaker 2: their story, and I'd show them what their story look 2037 01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:36,160 Speaker 2: like as an art piece, like a modern art piece, 2038 01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:39,320 Speaker 2: because once they had that, they said, oh, I don't 2039 01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:41,960 Speaker 2: have to paint or sculpt. I could legitimately go to 2040 01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:44,080 Speaker 2: a thrift store and buy this piece and then go 2041 01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,920 Speaker 2: over here and get some clay and then go downstairs 2042 01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,120 Speaker 2: the wood shop and they'll help me design this coffin 2043 01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,200 Speaker 2: and like they now had access to it, and I 2044 01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:55,360 Speaker 2: just let them run with it for three weeks, thinking 2045 01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:57,200 Speaker 2: like an artist, like thinking how to tell their story 2046 01:27:57,200 --> 01:27:59,880 Speaker 2: in different ways. Because there's this one marine whose trigger 2047 01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:03,200 Speaker 2: was a palmergranate because his buddy died in a palmerrant field. 2048 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,200 Speaker 2: So every time he saw one when we went out 2049 01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,280 Speaker 2: to like target or something, that's when he'd freak out 2050 01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,800 Speaker 2: and have an episode and have to be like pushed 2051 01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,680 Speaker 2: away because he was he reacted so negatively towards it 2052 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,920 Speaker 2: because he wasn't expecting it. So when he's telling me 2053 01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:17,879 Speaker 2: the story about his friend being shot in his cornfield 2054 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 2: and it took thirty minutes for the chopper to get 2055 01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:21,880 Speaker 2: off the ground, that's why he ended up dying in 2056 01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:24,120 Speaker 2: this Pombrant field where there's more open space, where they 2057 01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:27,479 Speaker 2: moved him to. I was like, you can. This is 2058 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,200 Speaker 2: as simple as like you going to buy a piece 2059 01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:33,479 Speaker 2: of corn and you writing his words, dying words where 2060 01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:34,680 Speaker 2: I love my life. I don't want to die. 2061 01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:36,920 Speaker 1: I was like, you can write dying words where I 2062 01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:38,040 Speaker 1: love my life. I don't want to. 2063 01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,519 Speaker 2: Because he was shot, gleeding out and this guy was 2064 01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,080 Speaker 2: stuck holding them. I love my life. I don't want 2065 01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,280 Speaker 2: to die. I love my life. I don't want He's 2066 01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:46,840 Speaker 2: holding them thirty minutes straight of just this till he 2067 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,839 Speaker 2: passed away, and so that's stuck in his head obviously, 2068 01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:52,080 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you can do this piece of corn 2069 01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:54,600 Speaker 2: and you could write his dying words and put a 2070 01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:58,120 Speaker 2: pomegranate there. That's as simple as your This huge story 2071 01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,960 Speaker 2: can be shot here, die words up to the moment 2072 01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,760 Speaker 2: he died, So use a pomegran to show death. That's 2073 01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:05,760 Speaker 2: all I give him, and then they have to go 2074 01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,200 Speaker 2: out and expand on that they can't use my exact 2075 01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:11,400 Speaker 2: art piece. But from that moment on they're looking at 2076 01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:13,800 Speaker 2: life so differently. Now every class they go to, whether 2077 01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:17,320 Speaker 2: it's three D printing or ceramics or wood chop, they're 2078 01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:19,920 Speaker 2: thinking every moment now like, oh I could use a 2079 01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:22,360 Speaker 2: wood piece. I could like make a little frame house 2080 01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:24,800 Speaker 2: for this thing. Oh I could do this. So what 2081 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,640 Speaker 2: Gino did at the end of this and this is 2082 01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:29,599 Speaker 2: a beautiful part because he called me three weeks later, 2083 01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:31,160 Speaker 2: like when we're setting up because we have an art show. 2084 01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:32,560 Speaker 2: I have to show your art at the end of 2085 01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:35,840 Speaker 2: the three weeks, and he's like, Richard, I went to jewel, 2086 01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:37,800 Speaker 2: I went to Oscar. I can't find I can't find 2087 01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,760 Speaker 2: a palm grant anywhere. So already in that three weeks 2088 01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:41,200 Speaker 2: we healed this. 2089 01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:43,760 Speaker 1: The first step was he went being triggered by him 2090 01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:44,840 Speaker 1: to go in to look look for. 2091 01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,320 Speaker 2: Him, because he repurposed the memory of what that Pomeran was. 2092 01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:49,000 Speaker 2: Now it's an art piece. Now it's his death. So 2093 01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:51,200 Speaker 2: I got to show it in a way, and so 2094 01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:53,479 Speaker 2: he ended up doing this plaster mold of his hand. 2095 01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:56,439 Speaker 2: He did this like wood board where he wrote for 2096 01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,320 Speaker 2: thirty minutes, because it took thirty minutes for a child. Together, 2097 01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:01,200 Speaker 2: he did a imer for thirty minutes and wrote I 2098 01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:03,639 Speaker 2: love my life, I love my life in red paint 2099 01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,280 Speaker 2: on this wood board. I love And when that thirty 2100 01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:09,120 Speaker 2: minute timer went off, he just smeared his hand across 2101 01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:13,080 Speaker 2: it and stopped, and then he installed his his hand 2102 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,559 Speaker 2: that he had and he had palmergrant seeds that fell 2103 01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:17,519 Speaker 2: to the floor to a real pomegrant on the floor, 2104 01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,120 Speaker 2: and that was his art piece. That's like one of 2105 01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:22,280 Speaker 2: the most shit no matter what. You don't even know 2106 01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,360 Speaker 2: a story. You look at it and you're like wow 2107 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,479 Speaker 2: when you see that piece. And this has come from 2108 01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,120 Speaker 2: a guy who's never done art a day in his life. 2109 01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:31,000 Speaker 2: But you just give him the tools of understanding like 2110 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,519 Speaker 2: what art can do and how to hide yourself in art. 2111 01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:34,280 Speaker 1: What did it do for him? 2112 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,400 Speaker 2: For him, it was that way to talk about it 2113 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,400 Speaker 2: without talking about it. And so he now he was 2114 01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:41,479 Speaker 2: one of my first He was in that same initial 2115 01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,360 Speaker 2: class with Walt. He was my very first art veteran ever. 2116 01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:47,879 Speaker 2: He was just in our office in Nashville, recreating his pomegranate. 2117 01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,240 Speaker 2: He three D printed it and redoing stuff. He now 2118 01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:52,559 Speaker 2: carries an iPad with him where he does procreate all over. 2119 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,240 Speaker 2: It's like a drawing thing. He's like every step of 2120 01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:57,439 Speaker 2: the way, I just when I feel anxiety, depression or rewar, 2121 01:30:57,479 --> 01:30:59,160 Speaker 2: I just go to my I just create art about it, 2122 01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:02,360 Speaker 2: and so giving them the tools to attack it from 2123 01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:02,760 Speaker 2: here on. 2124 01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:03,840 Speaker 1: Year was this for sure? 2125 01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,479 Speaker 2: Twenty fifteen was technically the first year we had art program. 2126 01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:10,280 Speaker 2: It was our second year, but our fiscal year ends 2127 01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:14,240 Speaker 2: in July or June thirtieth nine years ago. Yep. 2128 01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:22,760 Speaker 1: Veterans from fifty states served one thousand, six hundred, is 2129 01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:23,200 Speaker 1: that right? 2130 01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,920 Speaker 2: A lot more now? We served eight hundred by ourselves 2131 01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:26,559 Speaker 2: just last year. 2132 01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:28,679 Speaker 1: So what's your total veterans served? 2133 01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,240 Speaker 2: So it's probably up to three thousand or more. But 2134 01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:33,519 Speaker 2: we have fifteen million streams of our music, which we've 2135 01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:34,400 Speaker 2: already done study. 2136 01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:36,920 Speaker 1: On fifteen million streams, yep. 2137 01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:39,800 Speaker 2: And we have studies that show that our music actually 2138 01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:42,559 Speaker 2: heals people. We had just recently a Vietnam that hit 2139 01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:45,880 Speaker 2: up our Facebook saying I just discovered creative. A's because 2140 01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,800 Speaker 2: we have our music streaming. He's like, he's like I 2141 01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,000 Speaker 2: served in Vietnam, serve eighteen years. Your music has helped 2142 01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:54,400 Speaker 2: my PTSD so much because I relate to every song 2143 01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:58,120 Speaker 2: and he's like eighteen years, four months Vietnam, and so 2144 01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:00,760 Speaker 2: we have no idea what the true impact number is. 2145 01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:19,160 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. I'm going to read this. Oftentimes 2146 01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:22,240 Speaker 1: I've been asked if I'm okay, or what it's like 2147 01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:25,519 Speaker 1: to be deployed, or what it's like being wounded in action. 2148 01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:31,360 Speaker 1: It's difficult to explain. Art gives us the ability to 2149 01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:34,920 Speaker 1: express what is hard to put into words. It helps 2150 01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:39,560 Speaker 1: us let our emotions go without the uncomfortable feeling of 2151 01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:43,000 Speaker 1: someone staring you in the face waiting for response, but 2152 01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:46,320 Speaker 1: instead they stare at the piece you created and they 2153 01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:51,040 Speaker 1: come up with their own conclusions. It's therapeutic to be vulnerable, 2154 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,280 Speaker 1: and it hopefully helps individuals get a better understanding of 2155 01:32:55,479 --> 01:33:02,559 Speaker 1: service members. Great events helps bridge that gap. What else 2156 01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:03,160 Speaker 1: can you say? 2157 01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:08,479 Speaker 2: There's it's powerful arts and option, and that's what most 2158 01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:10,439 Speaker 2: people don't know. They don't they're not searching for it 2159 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:13,519 Speaker 2: like I wasn't. They don't fully believe it's gonna work. 2160 01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:17,720 Speaker 2: There's another guy who's now our veteran coordinator who to 2161 01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:19,680 Speaker 2: this day, every time he says it, it makes me 2162 01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:22,680 Speaker 2: want to cry because he's like he we run this 2163 01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,519 Speaker 2: program now at not just the school there in huge cargo, 2164 01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:28,719 Speaker 2: but at Glassdale School of Art in Houston, Virginia, Connwell University, 2165 01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:33,320 Speaker 2: Belmont University, and University of Southern California. And that class 2166 01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:35,840 Speaker 2: is where he went and he only went there because 2167 01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,080 Speaker 2: his friend went and he said, Oh, I'm just gonna 2168 01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:39,800 Speaker 2: go with my buddy and then I'm gonna go eat 2169 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:41,600 Speaker 2: a bullet when I go home. I just my one 2170 01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:42,639 Speaker 2: last hurrah with my buddy. 2171 01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:44,479 Speaker 1: He's like, arts, are you kidding? He's like arts and 2172 01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:48,000 Speaker 1: this guy was literally gonna go with his body to 2173 01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,000 Speaker 1: this thing and then he was going to kill him. 2174 01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like, this is a good opportunity just 2175 01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:53,479 Speaker 2: to spend my last days with my friend I served 2176 01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,800 Speaker 2: with for free, like paid me to go to USC 2177 01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:59,160 Speaker 2: and go to school. Cool. And he's still to this 2178 01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:00,840 Speaker 2: day says he was going to eat the bullet when 2179 01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:06,479 Speaker 2: he went home, and he's like, I discovered something completely new. 2180 01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:11,320 Speaker 2: And he's he's now part of organization. He's our veteran outreach, 2181 01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:13,720 Speaker 2: he's our veteran coordinator. So every veteran applies, he calls 2182 01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,320 Speaker 2: them and tells him a story and then gets them 2183 01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:17,680 Speaker 2: involved and stuff. But that's not the only story that 2184 01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,800 Speaker 2: we've heard from that, like so many people talking about 2185 01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,400 Speaker 2: writing the suicide letter on the day that we call 2186 01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:26,759 Speaker 2: them or other stuff. It's it's insane and more stuff 2187 01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:29,360 Speaker 2: like this needs to happen because art truly is an 2188 01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,560 Speaker 2: option and music is an option. And I hate that 2189 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:33,240 Speaker 2: I treated it the way I did when I first 2190 01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,200 Speaker 2: got out. And I'm hoping that we create a movement 2191 01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:38,519 Speaker 2: that kind of helps everyone understand that they can get 2192 01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:39,760 Speaker 2: into it and they can save their life. 2193 01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,560 Speaker 1: Even though my friends and family do not understand what 2194 01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,360 Speaker 1: it was like in a rock, I believe my song 2195 01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:48,840 Speaker 1: gives them a better understanding of what I went through 2196 01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:54,560 Speaker 1: while deployed. Man, I tear up, and I'll read that 2197 01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:58,960 Speaker 1: that is a person who loves his friends and family 2198 01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:07,719 Speaker 1: who cannot communicate with them. He's enable, and he's walking 2199 01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:12,120 Speaker 1: around every day trying to live life with this brokenness, 2200 01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:18,000 Speaker 1: and he has to feel relieved of that burden by 2201 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,680 Speaker 1: writing a song because he says, my song gives them 2202 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,680 Speaker 1: a better understanding of me and what I went through 2203 01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:29,960 Speaker 1: while deployed. I mean that's how you get over PTSD. 2204 01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,960 Speaker 2: Yep, that's how you get it. Just we feel like 2205 01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,639 Speaker 2: we have to keep it in for multiple reasons, because 2206 01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,880 Speaker 2: we serve so you don't have to, like the idea 2207 01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:41,120 Speaker 2: of most people, serve so you don't have to see 2208 01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:44,880 Speaker 2: the evil exists, and so when we come home, we're 2209 01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:49,519 Speaker 2: injured because of that evil. If we tell you, it's 2210 01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:52,599 Speaker 2: why do we even go and serve for you? If 2211 01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:54,200 Speaker 2: we tell you. So, that's one part of it. The 2212 01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:56,240 Speaker 2: other part is if I tell you, you're not going 2213 01:35:56,320 --> 01:36:01,240 Speaker 2: to understand. And so there's so many reasons that the 2214 01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,599 Speaker 2: reasons why we don't tell you, But the only way 2215 01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:07,160 Speaker 2: we survive is if we tell you. So there has 2216 01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:10,080 Speaker 2: to be a creative way to do that, and that's 2217 01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:13,760 Speaker 2: what this music does. You have these songwriters who can 2218 01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:15,920 Speaker 2: write a song that makes you feel like, even if 2219 01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:18,040 Speaker 2: you're not a female, could make you feel like a 2220 01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:19,760 Speaker 2: twelve year old girl when you listen to them, because 2221 01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,280 Speaker 2: you're just like the impact of the music attached with 2222 01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,439 Speaker 2: the lyrics just make you feel something like even if 2223 01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:27,080 Speaker 2: you never went through a breakup and you listen to 2224 01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:29,360 Speaker 2: a Dell, you'd be like, oh my God, I know 2225 01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:32,240 Speaker 2: what it feels like to be broken up with and 2226 01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,120 Speaker 2: so music has an impact. And now we're working with 2227 01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:37,640 Speaker 2: the best songwriters in the world that don't have to 2228 01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:41,240 Speaker 2: even truly understand the situation to write it in a 2229 01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:43,759 Speaker 2: way that your family and friends are going to understand. 2230 01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:45,760 Speaker 2: But other combat vets are going to understand too that 2231 01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:47,960 Speaker 2: they're not alone. And that's why we had to be 2232 01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:50,400 Speaker 2: in Nashville with these number one singer songwriters. And that's 2233 01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:54,920 Speaker 2: why even people like Justin Moore and Granger Smith and 2234 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:58,280 Speaker 2: Randy Rodgers and Craig Campbell, Craig Morgan, Jimmy Allen all 2235 01:36:58,360 --> 01:36:59,960 Speaker 2: have sat down with veterans for free just to help 2236 01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,600 Speaker 2: them tell their stories because they know the impact that 2237 01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:05,280 Speaker 2: it has them as an artist and other songwriters to 2238 01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:07,960 Speaker 2: actually help them decipher what they went through. 2239 01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:12,400 Speaker 1: When you were going through your height of anxiety and 2240 01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:15,320 Speaker 1: your PTSD and your brain damage and all the stuff 2241 01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:19,240 Speaker 1: that people come back with before your art healing and 2242 01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:24,240 Speaker 1: your own self. And I found out you served our 2243 01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:28,760 Speaker 1: country and we're passing each other in an airport and 2244 01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:31,000 Speaker 1: I look at you and I say, you don't know me, 2245 01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,160 Speaker 1: and you'll never see again. I say, hey, man, I 2246 01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:36,320 Speaker 1: just want to let you know, really appreciate your service. 2247 01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:39,559 Speaker 1: Is that a good thing or a bad thing to say. 2248 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:41,639 Speaker 2: Well, it used to be good. I think it's over. 2249 01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:45,840 Speaker 2: It's the new hello to veterans. It's like it used 2250 01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:47,760 Speaker 2: to mean something because you didn't hear it a lot, 2251 01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:50,519 Speaker 2: you didn't truly know who it was. And then there's 2252 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:53,160 Speaker 2: this rise of where that's just your normal response to 2253 01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:55,080 Speaker 2: people is like, oh, thanks for your service, thanks for 2254 01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:56,519 Speaker 2: I even catch up with sut like, oh your vetter, 2255 01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:59,160 Speaker 2: thanks for your service, like instantly. And so there's a 2256 01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:00,880 Speaker 2: song actually wrote with Be, a non veteran where in 2257 01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:02,880 Speaker 2: the lyric and says, your thinkings don't seem to work 2258 01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,000 Speaker 2: no more, because now it's just it's just like if 2259 01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:06,360 Speaker 2: you say I love you too much, It's like at 2260 01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:08,280 Speaker 2: some point it kind of like do you because you 2261 01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:09,000 Speaker 2: play delta? 2262 01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, the loading goes this way. People who need extra 2263 01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:18,320 Speaker 1: time and assistance, which are old people and assholes who 2264 01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,960 Speaker 1: want to put their luggage in front of everybody that 2265 01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,160 Speaker 1: don't need any extra help, but use that as an 2266 01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:26,519 Speaker 1: excuse to board the plane so they have a place 2267 01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:30,519 Speaker 1: for their carry on. That's number one, and that's one 2268 01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:32,559 Speaker 1: of my biggest pet peeves. So I'm glad I got 2269 01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:34,360 Speaker 1: to say that. And if you're one of those people, 2270 01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:39,160 Speaker 1: screw you and everybody puts their seat down, Yes, that's right. 2271 01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:50,599 Speaker 1: Then then number two are veterans, and then number three 2272 01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:54,640 Speaker 1: active or military service, and then it goes to like 2273 01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:57,680 Speaker 1: platinum members in first class and then they board. That's 2274 01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:03,280 Speaker 1: the boarding thing, so pregnant women and women with a 2275 01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:05,559 Speaker 1: bunch of children and people in whelchairs first, and then 2276 01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:11,800 Speaker 1: veterans and or active military. And I can't tell you 2277 01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,200 Speaker 1: how many times I've been standing in line as those 2278 01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:16,519 Speaker 1: guys passed through to get on the plane before me, 2279 01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:20,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes they're stopped, or they'll turn and talk or whatever. 2280 01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:24,360 Speaker 1: And I've always said, you know, hey, man, thanks for 2281 01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:28,200 Speaker 1: your service, and I genuinely mean it. I have a 2282 01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:35,160 Speaker 1: an enormous appreciation for people like you who gave what 2283 01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:40,679 Speaker 1: you gave and struggled with you struggled with to serve 2284 01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:45,320 Speaker 1: me and my family. But I am hearing it often 2285 01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:51,599 Speaker 1: and I am starting to wonder if it's if it's 2286 01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:56,040 Speaker 1: now almost not received well. And that's why I asked no. 2287 01:39:56,120 --> 01:39:59,120 Speaker 2: I mean, we usually could tell, though, like who's authentic 2288 01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:02,280 Speaker 2: and who's not it's hard sometimes, but most of the time, 2289 01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,040 Speaker 2: how you do it, you can just tell, you know, 2290 01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,280 Speaker 2: you to tell when someone's faking something like hey, yeah, 2291 01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:07,160 Speaker 2: happy to see you here. 2292 01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:08,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's like. 2293 01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:13,240 Speaker 2: Here, so usually it was like hey quick, but it's 2294 01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:14,920 Speaker 2: like when they stop and they're like hey, by the way, 2295 01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,000 Speaker 2: like thank you for like I never think you for 2296 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:19,080 Speaker 2: your service, or like when you initial initiate it in 2297 01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:22,360 Speaker 2: a certain way where it's not just a meeting. If 2298 01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:24,040 Speaker 2: it's meeting, and then you hear it and you say 2299 01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:25,560 Speaker 2: thank you. Sometimes it's hit or miss, but when you 2300 01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:27,799 Speaker 2: got your way to go thank them, it's a lot different. 2301 01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:31,560 Speaker 2: And nowadays that kind of patriotsm died down like it was. 2302 01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,400 Speaker 2: It was from like too much to now, like you 2303 01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:36,920 Speaker 2: hardly ever hear it from people because it's so distant, 2304 01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:41,280 Speaker 2: like that war so distant you should and people would 2305 01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:47,120 Speaker 2: know like that you're being genuine about it. But you 2306 01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:49,280 Speaker 2: know what funny, there's a veteran of brought down. This 2307 01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:50,680 Speaker 2: is the first time I ever heard it, and I 2308 01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,360 Speaker 2: legit thought this was like a pickup line because these 2309 01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:55,080 Speaker 2: two ladies came up and thanked him for a service. 2310 01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,439 Speaker 2: He just looks how he did it he like shook there. 2311 01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:59,280 Speaker 2: He's like, you know you were worth it? 2312 01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:05,200 Speaker 1: And I was like did you? 2313 01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:07,599 Speaker 2: And I was like this is the best pick up 2314 01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:10,400 Speaker 2: one ever. You were worth it? And then he's like 2315 01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:12,559 Speaker 2: then he felt weird that I was thinking that way, 2316 01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,120 Speaker 2: because he was like, no, I just feel awkward, Like 2317 01:41:15,240 --> 01:41:16,800 Speaker 2: what do you say? And I was like, hey, you 2318 01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:19,240 Speaker 2: know they're worth it, so you're worth it. But he 2319 01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:23,800 Speaker 2: totally had like Rico like almost like even a week, 2320 01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:26,960 Speaker 2: you were worth it. But I was like, that's genius. 2321 01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:32,400 Speaker 1: Marine, you know whatever. That's hilarious. If someone wants to 2322 01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:37,120 Speaker 1: support creative outs, if someone wants to become involved as 2323 01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:42,599 Speaker 1: a songwriter or art teacher for creative outs, or if 2324 01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,560 Speaker 1: there's someone out there listening to us who served this 2325 01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:50,920 Speaker 1: country and is struggling and needs creative ats, how they 2326 01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:52,400 Speaker 1: find Richard Well. 2327 01:41:52,280 --> 01:41:55,080 Speaker 2: The first step for all those categories is just listening 2328 01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:57,720 Speaker 2: to our music, because, for one, by listening to his 2329 01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:59,760 Speaker 2: music actually does create royalties. 2330 01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:00,760 Speaker 1: For the listen to the music. 2331 01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:04,240 Speaker 2: You can listen to on any stream platform Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, 2332 01:42:04,240 --> 01:42:06,840 Speaker 2: and you just search creativets as the artist. 2333 01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:09,680 Speaker 1: That is that is spelled c R E A T 2334 01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:13,040 Speaker 1: I capital v E T S creative. 2335 01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:14,880 Speaker 2: Yes, so just creative with the T S on the 2336 01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:16,599 Speaker 2: end of it, not a double V, which some people 2337 01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,960 Speaker 2: will try to do. But we released this through Big 2338 01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:22,639 Speaker 2: Machine Records, and we actually have artists singing our songs. 2339 01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:27,080 Speaker 2: So the artists will say creative, that's featuring Justin Moore, creative, 2340 01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:29,400 Speaker 2: it's featuring Aaron Lewis. Finn Skill is so cool. We 2341 01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:31,599 Speaker 2: had Vince Gill do backups on a song with Aaron 2342 01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:34,880 Speaker 2: Lows and Dan Timinski and so the idea of that 2343 01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:37,120 Speaker 2: too is a veteran here in those voices and be like, 2344 01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:38,840 Speaker 2: what's this? Then google us and find out We'll pay 2345 01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:40,519 Speaker 2: for their flights here, so like go in their. 2346 01:42:40,360 --> 01:42:41,040 Speaker 1: Home pull out. 2347 01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:45,040 Speaker 2: We have had one one R and B song, and 2348 01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:47,600 Speaker 2: one kind of rap song, one heavy metal song. But 2349 01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:49,160 Speaker 2: we're in Nashville, so a lot of people don't know 2350 01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,679 Speaker 2: we do everything, but we do everything. We'd find we'd 2351 01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:54,240 Speaker 2: find the writers who do everything. But that's the first 2352 01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:57,679 Speaker 2: step because for one, that music really does heal everyone. 2353 01:42:57,760 --> 01:42:59,559 Speaker 2: Whether you know a veteran or you've been with a veteran, 2354 01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:01,800 Speaker 2: you're gonna understand them more. If you are a veteran, 2355 01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:04,320 Speaker 2: you listener of music, you're gonna felt understand and felt 2356 01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:06,599 Speaker 2: like you're not alone anymore. And then as a donor, 2357 01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:08,960 Speaker 2: you're just listener music. It's helping build. It's not a ton, 2358 01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:11,680 Speaker 2: but it still streams over time that create revenue. And 2359 01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,320 Speaker 2: then obviously anybody wants to donate on our website creativets 2360 01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,320 Speaker 2: dot org and donate there and learn more. Same thing 2361 01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:19,000 Speaker 2: with veterans for applications on there, and our newsletter is 2362 01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:21,160 Speaker 2: an easy way to keep up with all the stuff 2363 01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:24,920 Speaker 2: that we're doing. And social media Instagram and everything. 2364 01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:28,720 Speaker 1: Eight hundred people social media is at Creative Outs at 2365 01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:31,720 Speaker 1: Creative's and eight hundred vets this year. 2366 01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:33,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was through all of our program We 2367 01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:35,519 Speaker 2: do programs down twenty different states with a bunch of 2368 01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:38,719 Speaker 2: partners like the National Ability Center and Traf's Mills Foundation 2369 01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:42,800 Speaker 2: where we bring out songwriters to locations. We probably served 2370 01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:47,160 Speaker 2: fourteen different states last year and gonna help more this year. 2371 01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:50,879 Speaker 1: So you wanted to have a Creative Vets like concert 2372 01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:53,560 Speaker 1: like Old Farm Aid used to do, remember. 2373 01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:55,519 Speaker 2: That we building that. We've had some in Nashville with 2374 01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:58,760 Speaker 2: some people, but we're building to actually do a little 2375 01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,439 Speaker 2: tour or some we go around the country and write 2376 01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:03,439 Speaker 2: with people and sing songs. And we've done it like 2377 01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:05,479 Speaker 2: Coastguard Base in qy Wes. We've done a show down 2378 01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,519 Speaker 2: there for the active duty and stuff. But we're getting there. 2379 01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:17,200 Speaker 1: Dude, a washed out high school student, last in his 2380 01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:25,599 Speaker 1: class from Washburn, Illinois, with siblings, who had issues from 2381 01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:30,560 Speaker 1: nowhereville to just wanted to go to the Marines and 2382 01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:34,719 Speaker 1: kick indoors. To ended up guarding the president, to coming 2383 01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:39,240 Speaker 1: home with anxiety and PTSD and a brain injury. Who 2384 01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:44,320 Speaker 1: found art, who found art to save himself and then 2385 01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:47,360 Speaker 1: decided he was going to save a bunch of others 2386 01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:51,360 Speaker 1: through the same love of music and art and serving. 2387 01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean, of these eight hundred vets, Richard the math 2388 01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:05,880 Speaker 1: says that a third of them would be dead. So 2389 01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:09,599 Speaker 1: it's literally saving the lives of the very people who 2390 01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:13,479 Speaker 1: gave of themselves to serve us. I cannot, I can't. 2391 01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:17,439 Speaker 1: I just can't think of a more noble cause. How 2392 01:45:17,439 --> 01:45:20,519 Speaker 1: does it make you feel to know what you're doing? 2393 01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:23,360 Speaker 2: Well? That gets me to my ninety five percent? Me 2394 01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:25,799 Speaker 2: so that eighty five to ninety five. 2395 01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:28,080 Speaker 1: Is all this. It's like, where's the other five percent? 2396 01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:29,960 Speaker 2: It'll never come back, But I don't need to come back, 2397 01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:31,679 Speaker 2: like we don't all need to be one hundred percent 2398 01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:33,920 Speaker 2: all the time. We you know, as we get older, 2399 01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:35,920 Speaker 2: like we're not one hundred percent ourselves that we were 2400 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:39,280 Speaker 2: back dates. So being in ninety five is like more 2401 01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:41,760 Speaker 2: than enough. Like I could easily survive at eighty five. 2402 01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:44,400 Speaker 2: But giving back to these veterans and hearing these stories 2403 01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:47,040 Speaker 2: each time, that's why after like over ten years, I 2404 01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:49,840 Speaker 2: still talk about it and cry and get enthusiastic and 2405 01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:53,160 Speaker 2: speak really fast about all this stuff we're doing because 2406 01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:56,120 Speaker 2: it just drives me. With every single veteran who's like 2407 01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:58,160 Speaker 2: and I wish I could even get into more stories 2408 01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,599 Speaker 2: with you, they'd just be You'd just be like yes 2409 01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:02,639 Speaker 2: because it feels so good. 2410 01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:05,559 Speaker 1: I got one more question. I played chess in high school. 2411 01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:08,800 Speaker 1: That's my version, your version of being a six foot 2412 01:46:08,840 --> 01:46:10,920 Speaker 1: guy walking in with all the blue red art people 2413 01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:13,920 Speaker 1: while lettered in six sports but also played chess. So 2414 01:46:14,040 --> 01:46:17,400 Speaker 1: imagine me in the national championship with the chess kids. 2415 01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:20,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, I worked out too. I wasn't always old 2416 01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:24,080 Speaker 1: and fat, dude, So get over what you're seeing right now. 2417 01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:30,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, one of the things actual research says that 2418 01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:33,840 Speaker 1: playing chess makes kids smarter It's not that smart kids 2419 01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:36,960 Speaker 1: play chess. It's that kids play chess and get smarter 2420 01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:43,559 Speaker 1: because your brain exercises it. Literally, It's just like it's 2421 01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:45,840 Speaker 1: just like if you do if you do three arm 2422 01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:49,800 Speaker 1: days a week, your muscles build because you're using them. 2423 01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:56,280 Speaker 1: Your brain does the same thing chess. The strategy, the thinking, 2424 01:46:56,479 --> 01:47:00,400 Speaker 1: the long two hours of sitting and making yourself be 2425 01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:03,000 Speaker 1: able to concentrate for two hours actually makes you a 2426 01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:07,400 Speaker 1: better test taker. It makes you Chess makes you smarter 2427 01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:12,560 Speaker 1: over a period of time. As I listened to you 2428 01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:16,120 Speaker 1: in the same vein, I kind of wonder if having 2429 01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:20,679 Speaker 1: to think about writing a song for an extended period 2430 01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:24,719 Speaker 1: of time and express yourself in art, if that doesn't 2431 01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:29,400 Speaker 1: help in some weird way repair a damage braining, well. 2432 01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:31,920 Speaker 2: The repetition of words do because like the rolodex that 2433 01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:35,720 Speaker 2: was broken now I'm recalling, like I forget what the 2434 01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,519 Speaker 2: number of words the average human uses today, but a 2435 01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:41,519 Speaker 2: songwriter uses ten x that. Because every time we're writing 2436 01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,000 Speaker 2: a song, we're trying to think of what words go where, 2437 01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:45,040 Speaker 2: we're trying to find new words. We're legitimately going to 2438 01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:48,280 Speaker 2: rhymean dictionaries online, rhymezone dot com and we're trying to 2439 01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:50,439 Speaker 2: find rhymes and near rhymes whatever works with the song 2440 01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:53,080 Speaker 2: that we're doing. So that's actually what healed most of 2441 01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:56,320 Speaker 2: my speech, Like I went to the speech pathologist stuff, 2442 01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:58,800 Speaker 2: but it was the songwriting portion. So I think there's 2443 01:47:58,840 --> 01:48:01,040 Speaker 2: definitely different parts in there. I know piano playing at 2444 01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:02,960 Speaker 2: the early age is the same thing where IQ goes 2445 01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:05,040 Speaker 2: up when you're playing piano at a young age. So 2446 01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:06,760 Speaker 2: I think it's the combination of the music, how the 2447 01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:11,080 Speaker 2: music affects you, like emotionally and resets well that stuff. 2448 01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:13,680 Speaker 2: But you can also remap your brain and remap or 2449 01:48:13,800 --> 01:48:16,599 Speaker 2: repurpose emotions if you come out of the same dark 2450 01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:19,000 Speaker 2: emotion and happy, which is a song. Like the same 2451 01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:21,360 Speaker 2: guy who was like my friend died and all this stuff. 2452 01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:23,240 Speaker 2: He's crying, but then an hour later he's like, I 2453 01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:25,760 Speaker 2: got a song. Every time he thinks about his friend, 2454 01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:27,160 Speaker 2: he's going to think about the last time he brought 2455 01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:27,719 Speaker 2: up that emotion. 2456 01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:30,120 Speaker 1: So he's remapping his emotions. 2457 01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, retrain, repurposing. He's repursing those memories as a good 2458 01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:35,600 Speaker 2: one rather than bad one, because now every time he 2459 01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:37,720 Speaker 2: thinks about his friend's death, he'll think about the last 2460 01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:39,920 Speaker 2: time he brought it up, which was in the songwriting session, 2461 01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:40,960 Speaker 2: which was a good memory. 2462 01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:48,479 Speaker 1: Ben Carson a neuro surgeon. Ben Carson neurosurgeon, and he 2463 01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:54,040 Speaker 1: did the first successful surgery where he took away two 2464 01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:56,720 Speaker 1: co joined twins that were joined at the head and 2465 01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:01,719 Speaker 1: they lived. And I read one time when he said 2466 01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:09,320 Speaker 1: that the three most unexplored realms in humanity right now 2467 01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:13,200 Speaker 1: are the depths of the deepest oceans, the cosmos, and 2468 01:49:13,240 --> 01:49:16,519 Speaker 1: the human brain that we understand so little about it. 2469 01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:20,080 Speaker 1: But he says it can repair itself, it does have 2470 01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,960 Speaker 1: a way to remap around broken areas, and he's just 2471 01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:27,519 Speaker 1: seen it too much. And you know, hearing you talk 2472 01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:31,600 Speaker 1: and hearing the story, I can't help but think this 2473 01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:35,519 Speaker 1: is not only good for one psyche, but physically it's 2474 01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:36,920 Speaker 1: actually good for the brain. 2475 01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:39,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, my left brain is Jambers, so my right brain 2476 01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:42,160 Speaker 2: took over. That's my creative side, that's everyone's creative side. 2477 01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:44,120 Speaker 2: And so that was a nothing. Going from nine artists 2478 01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:46,360 Speaker 2: to the best art school in the country. They said, yeah, 2479 01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:48,360 Speaker 2: one part was damaged to another part took over. 2480 01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:50,559 Speaker 1: And went hyperactive and got you good at it. Yep, 2481 01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:57,280 Speaker 1: what a phenomenal testament to the ability of a human 2482 01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:01,800 Speaker 1: being to cope if they remain optimistic and they find 2483 01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:04,679 Speaker 1: something that can help them, which is exactly what CREATI 2484 01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:09,680 Speaker 1: Vets does. It is, Richard, what a phenomenal story. Do 2485 01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:12,920 Speaker 1: you find it all ironic that you came to Memphis 2486 01:50:14,160 --> 01:50:17,160 Speaker 1: and we're talking about the strength of music and you 2487 01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:20,320 Speaker 1: look around you and you're sitting in mephis Listening Labs, 2488 01:50:20,439 --> 01:50:24,559 Speaker 1: which is nothing but a three thousand square foot area 2489 01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:26,320 Speaker 1: of music. 2490 01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:28,360 Speaker 2: This is awesome. When they when I walked in and 2491 01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:30,280 Speaker 2: they told me, I was like, this is a perfect 2492 01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,760 Speaker 2: spot for what we're doing. They didn't even know we're 2493 01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:34,559 Speaker 2: get into it, and I was like, yeah, it's all music, 2494 01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:36,920 Speaker 2: like we do music. And now to be in here 2495 01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:40,320 Speaker 2: with all music, I mean, there's no better, especially with 2496 01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:42,400 Speaker 2: the effects that music has on people, to be able 2497 01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:43,880 Speaker 2: to come and listen. Oh my gosh. 2498 01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:44,800 Speaker 1: And this is a lab. 2499 01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:45,960 Speaker 2: This is a cool vibe. 2500 01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cool vibe. And it's a it's a uh, 2501 01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:53,160 Speaker 1: it's a it's a place that is a testament to 2502 01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:55,400 Speaker 1: the power of the very things you're doing with Vets. 2503 01:50:56,160 --> 01:50:59,839 Speaker 1: So welcome to the Memphis Listening Lab and Crosstown concourse. 2504 01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm glad we did this here because it couldn't be 2505 01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:07,760 Speaker 1: more appropriate. In my opinion, it feels perfect. Richard, thank 2506 01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:09,639 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, thank you for sharing 2507 01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:12,040 Speaker 1: your story, thank you for your candor, thank you for 2508 01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:15,320 Speaker 1: the depths of explaining all of it to us, and 2509 01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:21,160 Speaker 1: most importantly, thank you for creating creativets and saving the 2510 01:51:21,320 --> 01:51:23,479 Speaker 1: very lives of the people who've been on the wall 2511 01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:26,320 Speaker 1: so that we can have our freedoms. And I mean 2512 01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:28,360 Speaker 1: it with awe sincerity. When I look you down in 2513 01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:30,800 Speaker 1: the eyes, I say not only thank you for your 2514 01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:33,439 Speaker 1: service when you're overseas, but thank you for your service now. 2515 01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:36,519 Speaker 1: I appreciate that you make our country a better place. 2516 01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:41,640 Speaker 2: Bro. Thank you, you were worth it. What you were 2517 01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:47,040 Speaker 2: worth it, You're Jack. 2518 01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:55,759 Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us this week. If Richard 2519 01:51:55,880 --> 01:51:59,240 Speaker 1: Casper or another guest has inspired you in general, or 2520 01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:03,560 Speaker 1: better yet, inspired you to take action by volunteering with 2521 01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:07,160 Speaker 1: creative Vets, by donating to them, by starting something like 2522 01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:10,759 Speaker 1: it in your own community, or something else entirely, please 2523 01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:13,800 Speaker 1: let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You 2524 01:52:13,920 --> 01:52:17,680 Speaker 1: can write me anytime at Bill at Normalfolks dot us 2525 01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:21,520 Speaker 1: and we will respond. And if you enjoy this episode, 2526 01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:25,240 Speaker 1: share with friends that I'm social, subscribe to the podcast, 2527 01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:29,600 Speaker 1: rate and review it, Become a premium member at normalfolks 2528 01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:32,439 Speaker 1: dot us. All of these things that will help us 2529 01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:36,960 Speaker 1: grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll 2530 01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:37,800 Speaker 1: see you next week.