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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Applecarclay, and Android Auto

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on the Tuesday edition on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and radio. Streaming live now on YouTube as

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Speaker 2: well and on Bloomberg Originals. If you're in the car,

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Speaker 2: find us on Serious XM channel one twenty one. As

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Speaker 2: the President prepares to leave the bubble, yes, a little

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Speaker 2: bit later on today, it's got a couple hours still,

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Speaker 2: they'll gas up the jet and the President will fly

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Speaker 2: to Pennsylvania. This may sound familiar to talk affordability. It's

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Speaker 2: almost like we're back in the Biden administration at this moment,

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Speaker 2: as the administration tries to frame its economic plans in

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Speaker 2: a way that not everyone seems to be feeling or

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Speaker 2: is born out in the data. President Trump sat for

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Speaker 2: an extended interview with Politico and was asked by Dasha

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Speaker 2: Burns about the issue.

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Speaker 3: Here's how that went.

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Speaker 4: I do want to talk about the economy, sir, here

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Speaker 4: at home, and I wonder what grade you would give

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Speaker 4: A plus.

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Speaker 5: A plus, A plus plus plus plus plus the word affordability.

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Speaker 5: I inherited a mess. I inherited a total mess. Prices

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Speaker 5: were at an all time high when I came in.

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Speaker 5: Prices are coming down substantially.

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Speaker 2: To our count that was five pluses, as the President

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Speaker 2: rates his economy at the end of year one. Now

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Speaker 2: on his way to Mount Polcono, Pennsylvania, he'll be speaking

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Speaker 2: after the bell to a crowd of supporters. And of

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Speaker 2: course we've seen the President outperform on the stump, and

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Speaker 2: he tends to do better in polling when he is

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Speaker 2: out in front of people.

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Speaker 3: So it's on now.

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Speaker 2: This is going to be the beginning of a bit

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Speaker 2: of a road show, and that's where we start our

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Speaker 2: conversation with Bloomberg. Washington correspondent Tyler Kendall's with me here

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Speaker 2: at the desk in our Washington bureau. Tyler, this is

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Speaker 2: straight out of the Biden playbook, even going back to

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Speaker 2: knock around near his old hometown in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: Right exactly.

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Speaker 6: And this idea that officials have to thread the needle

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Speaker 6: between saying that the economy is doing well when polling

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Speaker 6: in data is showing us that Americans don't feel that way.

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Speaker 6: And there's two statistics that I pulled for our conversation

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Speaker 6: today that I think put it into context. One is

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Speaker 6: our Harris poll conducted for Bloomberg News back in October

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Speaker 6: that found that fifty five percent of employed Americans are

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Speaker 6: concerned that they're going to lose their job. And then

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Speaker 6: pair that with the most recent consumer sentiment reading, which

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Speaker 6: is improving Friday's numbers from the University of Michigan, showing

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Speaker 6: that it rose for the first time in five months.

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Speaker 6: It's still hovering near those record low. So we know

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Speaker 6: that the White House really wants to try to recapture

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Speaker 6: this narrative when it comes to higher prices, any signs

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Speaker 6: of a slowing labor market. And this marks the first

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Speaker 6: big domestic policy speech that we've seen from President Trump

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Speaker 6: since November, when Republicans really were handed that slew of

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Speaker 6: election losses over the issue of affordability, which is now

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Speaker 6: front and center of these conversations, and.

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Speaker 2: It's an issue that the President likes to call a

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Speaker 2: Democrat con job or a Democrat hoax. Even the term affordability,

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Speaker 2: he says, is something that was invented by Democratic operatives.

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Speaker 2: So are you hearing anything from the White House on

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Speaker 2: the contents of this speech and what type of rhetoric

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Speaker 2: we're going to hear tonight.

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Speaker 6: So we did get sort of a preview from the

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Speaker 6: White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt an interview earlier today,

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Speaker 6: and we're really expecting President Trump to actually tout some

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Speaker 6: of the more recent policies. I mean, we've spoken so

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Speaker 6: many times on this program about all of the different

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Speaker 6: policies we've seen come out, and really just the past

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Speaker 6: few weeks. Right over the weekend, President Trump signing that

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Speaker 6: executive order directing the Department of Justice and Federal Trade

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Speaker 6: Commission to look into alleged price gouging and unfair trade

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Speaker 6: practice is also reminiscent of the last number that too administration,

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Speaker 6: and a bit to try to bring down grocery prices,

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Speaker 6: look into the food supply chain, other things such as

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Speaker 6: the recent relief we've seen for American farmers. We played

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Speaker 6: the sound from the Politico interview where President Trump didn't

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Speaker 6: mention those exemptions for some agricultural tariff products. He didn't

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Speaker 6: rule out additional carve outs. But then it will be

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Speaker 6: interesting to see how he framed some of the things

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Speaker 6: that haven't quite come to fruition, such as his idea

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Speaker 6: for tariff reebate revenue checks, which is something that we

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Speaker 6: know that he's really put.

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Speaker 3: Is that real, Tyler, or are we just talking about it?

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Speaker 6: Well, we know that it's something that very likely is

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Speaker 6: going to need Congress's approval right power of the purse.

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Speaker 6: We've heard some administration officials. I was in an event

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Speaker 6: last month with the Deputy White House Chief of Staff

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Speaker 6: who said that they would look into potentially a way

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Speaker 6: to do this without Congress. But that seems to be

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Speaker 6: a little bit of a stretch at the moment. But

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Speaker 6: I'll bring up Congress, Joe, because as you've been following,

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Speaker 6: of course, the affordability issue that could really come to

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Speaker 6: a head for this president as we head into the

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Speaker 6: end of the year is going to be healthcare, and

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Speaker 6: at the moment that is squarely on Capitol Hill's shoulders,

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Speaker 6: and we haven't really seen Republicans coalesce around a plan

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Speaker 6: for those expiring Affordable Care Act premium timing.

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Speaker 2: To a head or a cliff, as Democrats would tell you.

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Speaker 2: The President, continuing his refrain in this interview, just send

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Speaker 2: the money to people, let them go to the insurance companies.

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Speaker 2: But there's no evidence that would help to lower premiums,

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Speaker 2: is there.

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Speaker 6: So it seems like President Trump is coalescing around a

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Speaker 6: plan that we've really said that we had our eyes

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Speaker 6: on for a while here, likely from Senator Bill Cassidy,

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Speaker 6: Republican from Louisiana, leads the Help Committee. He wants to

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Speaker 6: see more money going into health savings accounts. This would

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Speaker 6: be a bid to encourage Americans to try to get

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Speaker 6: into plans that have lower premiums but higher deductibles, with

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Speaker 6: the idea that if they have more money in their hsas,

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Speaker 6: then they can afford higher out of pocket costs. But

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Speaker 6: as you're saying, we really have to see how this

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Speaker 6: actually threads the needle to lower prices for Americans down

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Speaker 6: the line. And really the deadline is coming up in

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Speaker 6: a matter of days that millions of Americans could see

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Speaker 6: their cost spike related to healthcare if at least an

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Speaker 6: extension doesn't get done. So Republicans could potentially hammer out

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Speaker 6: a different sort of deal. Again. In that political interview,

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Speaker 6: President Trump didn't rule out an extension on these ACA

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Speaker 6: tax credits, but it's very clear that he wants to

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Speaker 6: see a different plan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's interesting to see Bill Cassidy teaming up

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Speaker 2: with Mike Crapo here Finance Committee chair, because John thun

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Speaker 2: needs to pick something right. There's going to vote on

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Speaker 2: Thursday on a Democratic plan. The question is will there

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Speaker 2: be a Republican.

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Speaker 6: Answer, right, and he seemed to lend his support to

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Speaker 6: this idea. I mean, as you're mentioning, this is the

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Speaker 6: vote that Democrats wanted to see. This is how we

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Speaker 6: reopened to the government. We're going to get deja vu

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Speaker 6: all over again. But doesn't really feel like there's any

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Speaker 6: sense that that plan, it's a three year so called

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Speaker 6: clean extension, they're not going to put into effect any

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Speaker 6: sort of structural changes like income caps or anti fraud

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Speaker 6: provisions that Republicans want to see that that's really going

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Speaker 6: to ultimately get over the finish line. So then that

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Speaker 6: leaves with the ball really and Republicans courts on what's

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Speaker 6: going to happen. Though Worth mentioning there are some Republicans

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Speaker 6: we have our eyes on, like Josh Holly, who's hasn't

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Speaker 6: said that he would support the Democrats plan, but he

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Speaker 6: wants to support something it's not a good look for Republicans,

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Speaker 6: he says, if they don't put something a little bit

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Speaker 6: more concrete on the table.

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Speaker 2: Tyler, thank you so much reporting here in Washington, our

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Speaker 2: Washington correspondent, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall with the latest from the

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Speaker 2: White House and from Capitol Hill, both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

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Speaker 2: Trying to manage this healthcare issue as we speak, not

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Speaker 2: to mention what is happening in Ukraine and throughout Europe

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Speaker 2: right now. President Trump has been speaking quite a bit

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Speaker 2: about this recently, with a new security plan and a

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Speaker 2: new peace proposal for Ukraine. We find the headline on

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Speaker 2: the terminal. Before we spend some time with the Foreign

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Speaker 2: Minister of Slovenia, Trump gives Zelensky days to respond to

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Speaker 2: a peace proposal. This is the plan that has been

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Speaker 2: hashed out with Steve Whitcoff, Jared Kushner, and to a

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Speaker 2: lesser extent, the Secretary of State Marco Rubio over the

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Speaker 2: past couple of weeks. Trump's envoys, according to the Financial Times,

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Speaker 2: have given Zelenski only days to respond to a proposed

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Speaker 2: peace deal, the President saying, just on Sunday evening at

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Speaker 2: the Kennedy Center, that he was disappointed. President Zelenski hadn't

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Speaker 2: even read the proposal yet, because there are great concerns

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Speaker 2: that this proposal favors Russia and would force Ukraine to

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Speaker 2: give up part of its sovereign territory. Bigger questions about

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Speaker 2: President Trump's view of our allies in Europe. He was

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Speaker 2: asked about this in his sit down interview with Politico.

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Speaker 3: Listen, I think.

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Speaker 5: They're weak, but I also think that they want to

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Speaker 5: be so politically correct. I think they don't know what

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Speaker 5: to do. Europe doesn't know what to do. They don't

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Speaker 5: know what to do on trade either. I mean, I

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Speaker 5: look at a lot of the trade situation that's going

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Speaker 5: on over there. It's a little bit dangerous.

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Speaker 2: That's where we start our conversation with the Minister of

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Speaker 2: Foreign and European Affairs the Republic of Slovenia, Tanya Fayone,

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Speaker 2: with us live from World Headquarters in New York. Minister,

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Speaker 2: welcome to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's great to have

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Speaker 2: you with us. As part of our conversation. We'll start

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Speaker 2: broadly here and the president's remarks about Europe, is he

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Speaker 2: missing something that you wish he knew?

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Speaker 3: First?

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Speaker 7: Thank you?

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Speaker 8: For inviting me.

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Speaker 7: We just held a very good discussion in the Security

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Speaker 7: Council in Ukraine which was at points quite emotional and

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Speaker 7: rightly so. We are observing the fourth year of brutal

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Speaker 7: Russian aggression in Ukraine with a lot of civilian that's

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Speaker 7: a lot of children, that's destroyed energy, infrastructure, and severe

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Speaker 7: violations of international law and the UN Charter. So everyone,

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Speaker 7: including Ukrainians, wanted to see just and lasting peace, and

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Speaker 7: everyone in the Security Council fourteen countries are permanently calling

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Speaker 7: for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire. So I think it

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Speaker 7: is very clear that is Russia we want to see peace,

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Speaker 7: and we want to see just lasting peace. That means

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Speaker 7: that the peace is also acceptable for Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we should note, and I appreciate your answer,

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Speaker 2: that Slovenia currently holds the presidency at the UN Security Council,

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Speaker 2: so your views are important here. Do you worry that

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Speaker 2: this plan on the table now favors Russia and what

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Speaker 2: hurt Ukraine and therefore the rest of Europe.

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Speaker 7: I mean, the negotiations are ongoing, and I of course

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Speaker 7: command the US administration, Trump and everyone involved, because it

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Speaker 7: is good that there is a time also for a diplomacy,

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Speaker 7: for searching for political solution instead of a military one.

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Speaker 7: Of course, first is as I said before, immediate and

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Speaker 7: urgent ceasefire needed and then meaningful negotiations. Ukraine has to

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Speaker 7: be at the table, Europe has to be at the table.

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Speaker 7: We are discussing about strong security guarantees for the countries

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Speaker 7: that something like similar wouldn't happen again in the future.

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Speaker 7: And it's also about accountability. It is a brutal war

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Speaker 7: that is ongoing. We see really horrible acts. I was

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Speaker 7: traveling myself not long ago in Ukraine in several parts

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Speaker 7: of the country. When you see young people, children being

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Speaker 7: computated without legs, without arms, I mean, these are wars victims.

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Speaker 7: So we do have to all do more, and I

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Speaker 7: encourage the diplomacy to work, and I encourage all sites

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Speaker 7: to be equally engaged, especially Ukraine, because Ukraine is deciding

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Speaker 7: about its own future. We speak about territorial sovereignty and integrity.

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Speaker 7: No one by force can change the internationally recognized borders.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you consider the idea of this peace

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Speaker 2: plan being accepted within days, the FT is reporting that

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Speaker 2: that timeline is keing off. President Trump's hope to have

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Speaker 2: a peace deal in place, a deal agreed to buy Christmas. Minister,

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Speaker 2: is that possible?

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Speaker 7: I mean I wish to see that it is possible.

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Speaker 7: I think we all wish to see justin the lasting

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Speaker 7: piece for Ukraine and a peace agreement. But this is

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Speaker 7: a question mostly for those that are sitting at the table.

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Speaker 7: I speak mostly here about President Zelenski. He's speaking about

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Speaker 7: the state and about the future of his state. That's

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Speaker 7: why I say it's very important that everyone is at

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Speaker 7: the table, that the dialogue is going. But still as

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Speaker 7: long as there are bombings every day, I don't see

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Speaker 7: it's a good way to find a meaningful negotiations. So yes,

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Speaker 7: I do comment the efforts of Trump and administration because

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Speaker 7: we start talking and Europeans, but it is clear how

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Speaker 7: these talks should be conducted meaningful way and based on

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Speaker 7: an international law and an UN charter.

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Speaker 2: Minister Fayon President Trump satt for an extended interview with

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Speaker 2: Politico and was asked about these negotiations.

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Speaker 3: I'd like you to hear what he said, and we'll

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Speaker 3: have your respond.

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Speaker 4: Listen, which country right now is in a stronger negotiating position.

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Speaker 9: Well, there can be no question about it.

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Speaker 3: It's Russia, It's a much bigger country.

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Speaker 4: Zelenski rejects this deal. Is there a timeline? Is there

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Speaker 4: a point at which you say.

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Speaker 5: He's going to have to get on the ball and

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Speaker 5: start accepting things. You know when you're losing, because it's losing.

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Speaker 4: Ukraine has Do you think Ukraine has lost this war?

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Speaker 5: Well, I've lost territory long before I got here. They

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Speaker 5: lost the whole strip of seafront, Big seafront.

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Speaker 2: Minister Fa And I'll ask you the same question. Do

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Speaker 2: you believe Ukraine is losing this war?

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Speaker 7: I think Ukraine has high moral and it's quite an

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Speaker 7: inspiration to see people fighting for their own territory in

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Speaker 7: the country. As I said before, no one and I

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Speaker 7: will repeat it, no one can buy force simply.

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Speaker 8: Take your land away.

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Speaker 7: We had our own history in Formaeugoslavia, and that is

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Speaker 7: why I say it's all about territorial sovereignity and integrity.

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Speaker 7: If there is a meaningful negotiations after the cease fire,

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Speaker 7: it has to be respected and negotiated. So I do

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Speaker 7: hope that a president's put in Zalenski, a Trump will

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Speaker 7: sit down and find a solution that is acceptable for peace,

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Speaker 7: for security and for the.

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Speaker 8: Future of Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're remind us Europeans have long memories, and I wonder,

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Speaker 2: even if we have a peace deal with signatures on

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Speaker 2: the table and a security guarantee, does history suggest you

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Speaker 2: can trust Vladimir Putin with a deal.

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Speaker 7: I mean, we are this year in eighties, year of

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Speaker 7: anniversary of United Nations. Eighty years ago, our leaders committed

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Speaker 7: to values of securing collective peace and security for our

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Speaker 7: citizens around the world. I think this is a good

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Speaker 7: moment to reflect ourselves, where is our responsibility and maybe

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Speaker 7: to recommit to these values. I think we live in

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Speaker 7: times of these terrible geopolitical terriblens, with too many armed

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Speaker 7: conflicts in the ours, and we need to protect civilians

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Speaker 7: and I think this is our really moral, if nothing else, responsibility.

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Speaker 2: If Vladimir Zelenski gives up the dune Boss, gives up

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Speaker 2: territorial gains that Russia has made minister in our remaining moment,

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Speaker 2: what will that mean for the rest of Europe.

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Speaker 7: You don't expect the ti y prejudge the negotiations and

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Speaker 7: the end result. I think this is up to President

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Speaker 7: Zelenski for the talks about what is acceptable and negotiable

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Speaker 7: for Ukraine that is clearly the victim of this war.

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Speaker 2: I'm really glad you could join us today and I

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Speaker 2: appreciate your coming to see us at our headquarters in

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Speaker 2: New York. Minister, thank you, Tania Fayon, Minister of Foreign

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Speaker 2: and European Affairs, the Republic of Slava, in a conversation

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Speaker 2: you will not hear anywhere else today.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

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Speaker 3: more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Apple Coarcklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: All these stories converge eventually, particularly in the conversation we're

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Speaker 2: about to have with Steve Ellis at Taxpayers for Common Sense.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming that Steve's had exploded when he heard the

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Speaker 2: President talking at the cabinet meeting a couple of days back.

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Speaker 2: Remember this was a couple of hours long conversation, and

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Speaker 2: we went through a lot of topics, and everyone was

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Speaker 2: really focused that day on what we all now called

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Speaker 2: the double tap strike on the Venezuelan boat September two.

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Speaker 2: That was the talker, right, Pete Hegseth, sitting right next

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Speaker 2: to Resident Trump. But as I say, a lot of

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Speaker 2: different things were said over the course of two hours,

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Speaker 2: some of them striking, including this idea, and the President's

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Speaker 2: gone here before. Imagine if the whole country was Florida.

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Speaker 2: I stole that from CC in New York. A world

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Speaker 2: with no income tax, in America with no income tax

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Speaker 2: thanks to proceeds from the tariffs.

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Speaker 3: Here's Donald Trump in the cabinet room.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 10: So we're going to be making a dividend to the people,

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Speaker 10: and additionally, we're going to be able to reduce debt.

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Speaker 10: And as time goes by over the next two three,

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Speaker 10: four years, those numbers are going to go up. And

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Speaker 10: I believe that at some point in the not too

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Speaker 10: distant future, you won't even have income tax to pay

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Speaker 10: because the money would take it in is so great,

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Speaker 10: it's so enormous that you're.

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Speaker 3: Not going to have income tax to pay. Wow. So

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Speaker 3: Steve tell Us can retire.

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Speaker 2: You know, he founded tax Payers for Common Sense many

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Speaker 2: years ago. He's still the president, still on the job

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Speaker 2: every day in Washington, and I don't know. Steve, welcome

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Speaker 2: back to Bloomberg. He says, two three four years. Imagine

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Speaker 2: a world with no income tax? Is that what you're

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Speaker 2: preparing for?

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Speaker 11: Certainly not, Joe. I mean, there's no remote possibility that

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Speaker 11: we could raise enough tariff revenue without totally crashing the

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Speaker 11: economy to get to the two point sixty six trillion

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Speaker 11: dollars that the income tax came raised in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: That's a good number. Okay, little perspective from Steve. Two

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Speaker 2: point sixty six trillion dollars. It's unclear how much money

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Speaker 2: has been gathered from tariffs. Steve, we can get abstract

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Speaker 2: on this real quick, because the question is still being

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Speaker 2: asked who pays tariffs? And I realized that that might

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Speaker 2: be a bit of a moving target. But as more

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Speaker 2: retailers and more manufacturers suggest that they're going to have

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Speaker 2: to start passing along tariffs in the next couple of months,

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Speaker 2: in the next year, aren't we already taxing the consumer?

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Speaker 2: Are we just moving the tax in that world?

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Speaker 11: Well, absolutely so, Joe. So far this year we raised

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Speaker 11: two hundred and thirty billion dollars in tariffs, so a

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Speaker 11: far cry from that two point six trillion I was

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Speaker 11: just talking about. And certainly Costco, who is trying to

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Speaker 11: sue to get the tariff for revenue pack certainly thinks

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Speaker 11: that it's costing them in their consumers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this doesn't sound like two three four years

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Speaker 2: be enough time or ever for that matter. When you

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Speaker 2: consider the impact of tariffs, Steve and people must ask

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Speaker 2: you about this at every cocktail party in Washington and

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Speaker 2: at a lot of holiday party is going on right now.

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Speaker 3: Who is paying the tariffs?

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Speaker 2: The administration would tell you that it's mainly the exporting

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Speaker 2: countries and to a lesser extent, the importers who are

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Speaker 2: swallowing some of this cost and then maybe a smaller

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Speaker 2: share going to consumers.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a breakdown on that?

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Speaker 11: There isn't really a breakdown, because it's every importer making

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Speaker 11: their own decisions. But at some point it's got to

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Speaker 11: give because they have to make a profit or they're

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Speaker 11: going to stop importing that particular good, and those rises

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Speaker 11: are going to go up for consumers, and so certainly

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Speaker 11: it gets passed along and it is effectively a tax

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Speaker 11: on all our consumers, and it's a very inefficient tax

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Speaker 11: as well. And so this is something where if you

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Speaker 11: could actually really raise tariffs to the level that President

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Speaker 11: Trump is talking about to eliminate the federal income tax,

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Speaker 11: it would be far beyond what we saw in the

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Speaker 11: nineteen thirties and it would crash the economy.

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Speaker 3: So enter the idea of a farmer bailout.

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Speaker 2: You can't really talk about tariffs without mentioning this twelve

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Speaker 2: billion dollars. President put pen to paper yesterday on this

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Speaker 2: in the form of an EO. The farmers, according to

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Speaker 2: the analysts Bloomberg Intelligence, say they want trade, not aid.

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Speaker 3: What do you think.

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Speaker 11: Certainly they're in the business to grow products. They don't

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Speaker 11: want to just get handouts of cash, and so they

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Speaker 11: want to be able to export these commodities, the soybeans,

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Speaker 11: the cotton, these particular commodities, and there being a major

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Speaker 11: export market was China, who guessed what we slapped with

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Speaker 11: a whole bunch of terraffs and then they reciprocal tariffs

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Speaker 11: on us, and so it's not just hurting China, it's

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Speaker 11: hurting our farmers. Plus China's going to Brazil to buy

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Speaker 11: the soybeans, so essentially they're making they're managing this much better.

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Speaker 11: And so then we're trying to dole out cash. And

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Speaker 11: we saw this exact same movie.

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Speaker 3: Before, Joe.

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Speaker 11: We saw it in the first Trump administration where they

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Speaker 11: doled out cash from the Secretary of Agriculture Slash fund.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it looks it sounds to me like more

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Speaker 2: will be needed. Do you see another bailout like this

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Speaker 2: next year?

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Speaker 11: Well, unfortunately, Joe, we've seen a series of agriculture bailouts

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Speaker 11: over time, and certainly we seem to hand out money,

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Speaker 11: hand over fists to agriculture and agriculture businesses and through

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Speaker 11: crop insurance and a whole variety of sort of safety

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Speaker 11: net programs. But this is a self inflicted wound. This

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Speaker 11: is something where the administration's policies are harming farmers and

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Speaker 11: to try to assuage them, to try to keep them

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Speaker 11: in his tent, they're just helicopter and cash over farmland.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Steve, it's good to have you back. He's the

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Speaker 2: President Taxpayers for common Sense. Steve ellis with us live

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Speaker 2: on Bloomberg as we add the voice of Republican strategist

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Speaker 2: Ashley Davis, of course, partner at S three Group and

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Speaker 2: a regular presence in our conversation here every day on

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Speaker 2: balance of power, Ashley, it's great to have you. What

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Speaker 2: does Congress think about the farmer bailout? We talked to

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Speaker 2: a lot of members last evening, for instance, from Kansas,

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Speaker 2: with a lot of constituents who are counting on this

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Speaker 2: is twelve billion dollars enough? And does Congress like the

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Speaker 2: fact that we're helicoptering this money? As Steve Ellis just

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Speaker 2: put it.

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Speaker 12: Thank you have first of all, hy Joe, nice to

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Speaker 12: see you as always. But I think that you'll have

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Speaker 12: both sides of the argument here. I mean, if you

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Speaker 12: look at how this is being paid for, the twelve

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Speaker 12: billion dollar subsidies, it's going to be paid for by

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Speaker 12: the tariff revenue. So there's not going to be any

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Speaker 12: budget issues add in the past in regards to subsidies

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Speaker 12: or tax credits or anything else that the farmers have

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Speaker 12: received over the years. So the budget hawks, the people

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Speaker 12: that want to get rid of the deffit, especially on

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Speaker 12: the right, the more conservative members and the left as well,

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Speaker 12: we'll be happy that this isn't any type of new

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Speaker 12: appropriations money, so to speak.

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Speaker 8: But just as your last guest set, as Steve said,

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Speaker 8: is these subsidies.

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Speaker 12: Have been happening or the bailouts have been happening in

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00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 12: different forms to the farmers as long as I've been

441
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 12: in Washington, which is almost twenty five years. I do

442
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 12: think that obviously the farmers are the bread and butter

443
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 12: of our country.

444
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 8: We want to make sure to support them.

445
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 12: But I don't think that adding them to the year

446
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 12: over year budgets or the way to do it.

447
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 8: As well.

448
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 12: I actually personally like that this comes from tariff money.

449
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 12: This is kind of a bridge, so to speak, hopefully

450
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 12: to get us back on track.

451
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 8: But I don't know if.

452
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 12: I do agree that this is just because of the

453
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 12: tariffs that this is happening, because I mean, for again

454
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 12: twenty twenty five years that I've been here, there's always

455
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 12: been issues around the different funding that our farmers need.

456
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 12: So I don't there's a bigger problem than just our tariffs.

457
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: Sure enough.

458
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 2: I mean, it has a lot to do with China

459
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: and soybeans and uncertainty when it comes to imports, right,

460
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: But you're suggesting it goes deeper than that.

461
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 12: Well, yeah, but I mean yes, I mean obviously times

462
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 12: have changed. I mean a lot of our country was

463
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 12: built on the farming industry. A lot of our exports

464
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 12: were the farming industry exactly, not just China but other

465
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 12: places throughout the world. It's just I mean, it's just

466
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 12: the natural times of change that have changed the industry. However,

467
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 12: I don't think there's anybody on the Republican side, on

468
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 12: the Democrat side, no matter if it's Biden or President Trump,

469
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 12: would ever want our farmers to go under. So I

470
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 12: think that everyone does do their best way of supporting them.

471
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 12: I mean, talk to Chuck Grassley obviously every day, talk

472
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 12: to the Kansas senators. That is the number one issue

473
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 12: for them, and even in Kentucky or Virginia in regard

474
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 12: to tobacco. I mean, there's all types of farmers, not

475
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 12: just food. But we either have to support them through subsidies.

476
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 12: We need to support them through one time payments. But

477
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 12: it can't continue to eat at our bottom line, at

478
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 12: the deficit, in my opinion.

479
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: Jerry Mran from Kansas was with us just last evening

480
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: talking about it. If you're with us on YouTube, just

481
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: a reminder, CC's got the best farm footage of the

482
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: business Big Vote Thursday, Ashley, I've been dying to ask

483
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: you about this because nobody's closer to time to the

484
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: Senate than you. What are you hearing there's going to

485
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 2: be a Democratic healthcare proposal that gets a vote? Do

486
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: we know what will include? Have we settled on something?

487
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: And will Republicans have an answer? Because I know they

488
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: are about forty five plans that they're looking at right now.

489
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 12: Well, I'm just going to say if I knew, I

490
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 12: would probably have a lot of money right now. But

491
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 12: I do think, you know, there's a big lunch happening

492
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 12: shortly with Senate Republicans to try to decide a path forward.

493
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 12: I don't think that there's not going to be an

494
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 12: alternative from the Republicans that will be presented to the

495
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 12: three year extension that the Democrats will get a vote

496
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 12: on on Thursday. It's obviously Republicans are not going to

497
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 12: support that. I don't think anyone's going to be surprised

498
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 12: about that. But we have all different We have a

499
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 12: new bill with the Cassidy bill is coming out today

500
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 12: and Crapo, so those are two committee chairs that have jurisdiction.

501
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 12: We have the Marino Collins bill that also has different

502
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 12: so I'm assuming it's going to be some combination.

503
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 8: Well, let's just put that aside.

504
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 12: We also have the House that has like Brian Fitzpatrick,

505
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 12: the moderate bills that are trying to I mean, people

506
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 12: are trying very hard to come to some solution the issue.

507
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 8: I'm not a big believer that this needs to happen

508
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 8: by the end of the year.

509
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 12: I think the deadline's more January thirtieth, but I think something.

510
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 12: I think Republicans, at least in the Senate this week

511
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 12: need to show something and getting around one answer is

512
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 12: going to be very difficult over the next forty eight hours.

513
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you remember the talking point. So we're going

514
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: to get into this with our panel coming up around

515
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 2: the government shutdown, Speaker Johnson. Pretty much every Republican said, no,

516
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: you're conflating to unrelated issues. Funding is a now issue.

517
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: Healthcare is something we get to figure out at the

518
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: end of the year. Democrats said, no, this is Capitol

519
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: Hill and we'll never get it done unless we start now, Ashley,

520
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: we're Democrats, right.

521
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 8: All of these deadline are a little bit fungible, as

522
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 8: you know.

523
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 12: I mean, I think that obviously the subsidiary subsidies subsidiaries

524
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 12: leave at expire at the end of the year. But

525
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 12: I do really think that we can backtrack in regards

526
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 12: to pain from some of them, probably through the first

527
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 12: quarter of next year. The problem is that you need

528
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 12: a cliff is exactly what Democrats are saying. But we were,

529
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 12: we meaning Republicans, We're never going to move off of

530
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 12: the shutdown connection to the subsidies. It just wasn't something

531
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 12: that politically was going to work. But there is going

532
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 12: to be something significant that has to happen in the

533
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 12: next three months.

534
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: All Right, you got it from Ashley Davis. It's great

535
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: to see Ashley. She'll be back on the late edition

536
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: of Balance of Power. Partner at S three group Republican Strategists.

537
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: Great to see you. Stay with us on Balance of Power.

538
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this.

539
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

540
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: us lived at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple

541
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Blueberg Business app. You

542
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

543
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

544
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: Big questions about what's going to happen as we make

545
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: our way through the week, but we're actually asking questions

546
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: about what will happen later today, even as the President

547
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: leaves the White House for Pennsylvania, and this will likely

548
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: sound familiar if you watch Joe Biden go through the

549
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: affordability crisis and the heights of inflation in the last administration.

550
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: It was typically Pennsylvania where he would travel, if not

551
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: to scrating itself in his hometown, to get down to

552
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: kitchen table issues and talk about. Yes, affordability a term

553
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: and a concept the President likes to call a Democrat

554
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: con job, so squaring these two ideas could be interesting

555
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: when he stands before thousands later on making his way

556
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: to Mount Pocono after a Christmas party at the Vice

557
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: President's residence. President was asked just yesterday about this idea

558
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: of affordability as a hoax or a con job when

559
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: he sat down to talk about a farmer bailout in

560
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: the cabinet room at the White House.

561
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 10: Listen, you can call it affordability or anything you want,

562
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 10: but the Democrats causes the affordability problem.

563
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 13: I think the prices are going to be going down already.

564
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 13: I mean the prices are way down. We brought prices

565
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 13: way down from what it was. We inherited high prices.

566
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 13: Inflation is essentially gone.

567
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 5: We haven't normalized, and it'll go down even a little

568
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 5: bit further.

569
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: But of course the data we talk about on the regular,

570
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: at least when the government is open, would not confirm

571
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: that prices are down, in fact flat in some cases

572
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: and even higher and others. The President likes to reach

573
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: toward gas prices which have been trending lower, and some

574
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: of the deals that he's made when it comes, for instance,

575
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: to pharmaceutical prices, but people haven't felt those yet, and

576
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 2: we could be in a world where healthcare premiums are

577
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: about to skyrocket at least if something isn't solved on

578
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: Capitol Hills. So let's assemble our political panel for more

579
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: on affordability and how the president is going to approach

580
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: this today. What is the strategy that could work that

581
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: maybe Joe Biden did not enjoy. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano,

582
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: as you can see, are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors.

583
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: Rick is our Republican Strategists partner at Stone Court Capital,

584
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: and Genie is Democracy Visiting fellow at the Harvard Kennedy

585
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: School Ash Center. Great to have both of you with us. Rick,

586
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: this is a tough order for President Trump, President Biden,

587
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: was never able to close this deal. What should be

588
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: the approach today is he tells people that they may

589
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: not be feeling what he is seeing.

590
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 14: Well, Biden, who did oversee one of the largest inflation

591
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 14: spikes in our nation's history, was running for reelection. We

592
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 14: didn't realize that he wouldn't make it all the way.

593
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 14: But at the time, he was trying to be empathetic.

594
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 14: He was trying to show the kindler, gentler, Joe, uncle

595
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 14: Joe side.

596
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: Your pain kind of approach.

597
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 14: And that was a disaster because at the same time,

598
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 14: he too was vaunting all the positive things his administration

599
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 14: was doing to bring these prices down, and consumers weren't

600
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 14: buying it right, nobody bought that line. Donald Trump is

601
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 14: not running for reelection, so he has more options on

602
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 14: the table. A little truth to power might be a

603
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 14: good approach, a forecast for how we're going to deal

604
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 14: with it methodically over the course of the next two years,

605
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 14: But then that takes away his optionality, and Donald Trump

606
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 14: loves optionality above everything else. He loves to be able

607
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 14: to turn on a dime. What's working today. If it's

608
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 14: not working, we'll try something else tomorrow. So honestly, he

609
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 14: talks about this is a great economy. It's an a economy,

610
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 14: a plus plus plus, And I think this is one

611
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 14: strategist talking that if he goes into this conversation in

612
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 14: Pennsylvania and tries to convince people that they aren't feeling

613
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 14: good enough because the economy is so great, that's going

614
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 14: to backfire on him.

615
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: How about just give me a minute, Jeannie, a little

616
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: bit of honesty. You know, we've got a big plan.

617
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: He likes to say, I inherited a mess, so give

618
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: me a minute short term pain, like he said, with

619
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: the tariff's long term gain, do people buy that?

620
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: Well, that's what jd.

621
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 15: Vance has been trying to say, That's what Scott Bessen

622
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 15: has been trying to say. They are following the directives

623
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 15: coming out of the politics arm of the White House.

624
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 15: But of course they are much better at staying on

625
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 15: message than Donald Trump, who famously does not want to

626
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 15: listen to people who tell him that he's got to say,

627
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 15: give us more time. The politics strategy folks are also

628
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 15: telling him, stop blaming Joe Biden, start contrasting your plans

629
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 15: with those of Democrats in Congress. He's not interested in that.

630
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 15: So it's going to be very curious today to see

631
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 15: how he threads this needle, because of course he wants

632
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 15: to say what he said in that interview to Dash

633
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 15: of Burns yesterday, which is that I get an.

634
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: A plus plus plus plus plus.

635
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 15: And of course the problem for the president is we

636
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 15: don't grade ourselves. You know, it would be nice in

637
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 15: life if we were grading ourselves, but that's not the

638
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 15: way this works. Somebody else grades us, and in this case,

639
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 15: it's the American voter. And you know, Rick's right, he's

640
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 15: not running again, but you know who are all of

641
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 15: his Republican counterparts at a running in Congress. And if

642
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 15: he loses this House in the midterm, he has a

643
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 15: very long two years left on his term when the

644
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 15: Democrats will be using oversight powers to investigate him. So

645
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 15: he's got an awful lot at stake here, and he's

646
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 15: got to get this messaging right today.

647
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: You know, Genie's a professor at I own university, I

648
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 2: be she's a hard grater. Remember the daily interviews, They're

649
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: just grinding through these interviews with Jared Bernstein, Brian Deese,

650
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: the Biden economic team. They talked about shrink flation, right,

651
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: they brought the meat packers into the White House to

652
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: talk about gouging. They talked about supply chain. Well, we

653
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 2: hear specifics like that from this administration because it didn't

654
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 2: work obviously.

655
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think so.

656
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 14: I mean, Donald Trump is the ultimate promoter, right, and

657
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 14: you don't promote the negative. I mean, like go to

658
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 14: where he is. He wakes up every morning and says

659
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 14: this is great. I mean, like you know, and and

660
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 14: and even though he does things like attack his allies

661
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 14: and things like that, it's because other things are happening

662
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 14: that are even better than have an allies. And so

663
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 14: I doubt if he's going to go after sectors, okay,

664
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 14: unless there's something specific he's trying to get from that

665
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 14: sector that he's trying to do. And remember Jimmy Carter,

666
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 14: who I'm old enough to sadly remember the high cost

667
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 14: of power on a sweater and turned down your thermostask

668
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 14: well that went over well, yeah, right, And so there's

669
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 14: no evidence that having this sort of serious conversation with

670
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 14: consumers is any more effective than you know, being the

671
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 14: grand promoter and saying everything's fine. So I just think

672
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 14: he's going to be who he is, right, whether whether

673
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 14: we like it or not. Donald Trump is the cheerleader

674
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 14: in chief of the United States of America and our

675
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 14: economy and more and more, he's even realizing it's his economy.

676
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 3: So if it's bad, it's Biden. If it's good, it's me.

677
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 14: Sure a year from now, it'll be all me, because

678
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 14: it'll all be good.

679
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

680
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's tough to get out of the bubble sometimes

681
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 2: when you're the president and Genie, he's going to be

682
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 2: standing in front of throngs of supporters, right, they're probably

683
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: waiting in line right now. He'll hear the cheering and

684
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 2: the USA chance, he'll probably figure that this is working

685
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: out pretty well, won't he.

686
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 15: Yeah, And that's the problem, right, And we saw it

687
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 15: with Biden, we're seeing it with Trump. Incumbency is a benefit,

688
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 15: but it's also a drawback. You are in the bubble

689
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 15: of the White House. In this case, he hasn't spent

690
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 15: a lot of time on the road. It's one of

691
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 15: the very few excursions he's taken out on the road

692
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 15: because his numbers on the economy are dropping so fast

693
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 15: and it's.

694
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: Such a problem for him.

695
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 15: And yeah, people will be waiting out in the cold

696
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 15: and they will be cheering for him. But nothing changes

697
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 15: the numbers or how people are feeling. And that's the

698
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 15: problem he has to contend with. And there's no easy

699
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 15: way to contend with it except to say I've got

700
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 15: a plan and if you hold on in wait, it's

701
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 15: going to be coming. But that's not what people want

702
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 15: to hear. And of course that means he's going to

703
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 15: go out there and probably bolster what he's done and

704
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 15: blame the problems on Joe.

705
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 3: Biden, which by the way, is just what he's been doing.

706
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 15: The only difference here is he's going to do it

707
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 15: in McComb County, and you know, this isn't county that matters.

708
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 15: And I think it's a sign how concerned he is

709
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 15: about the midterm that this is one of the counties

710
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 15: that straddles two districts, two of the few in the

711
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 15: country that are up for grabs in the midterms, and

712
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 15: he is desperate to hold onto the House as we

713
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 15: go into the midterm.

714
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: Would you send the boss to Pennsylvania? And where should

715
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: he go from here? If this is the roadshow, you.

716
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 14: Know, I'm not sure I would go to Pennsylvania. I mean,

717
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 14: your point is not running from realsan you go so

718
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 14: too as a country. But he's not on a ballot,

719
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 14: and he's inviting a week's worth of response from Josh Shapiro,

720
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 14: who is running for president, and and it's almost like

721
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 14: handing a Democrat a gift bag from this administration.

722
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: So I think I.

723
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 14: Would find a much more benign state with a Republican governor.

724
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: Everyone's got the same problems.

725
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 14: There's nothing unique about Pennsylvania, only is zip codes nearby.

726
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: And I think that that would be a more.

727
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 14: Effective tool because then he has a governor who's going

728
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 14: to go around that state for a week and talk

729
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 14: about how right he is, not how wrong.

730
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: Interesting And as you're as you're filling out that map

731
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: in the strategy meeting, Rick, are you adding frontline Republicans

732
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: who could be at risk in certain districts? Are you

733
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: trying to target midterm races while you're trying to deliver

734
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: your own message.

735
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 14: I mean, look, this is obviously a very skilled political

736
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 14: operationation around Donald Trump. They've done things that nobody else

737
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 14: thought they could accomplish. But I have not seen the

738
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 14: gang tackling on administration priorities the way previous administrations have

739
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 14: done it. There was a real lack of interest in

740
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 14: selling the one big beautiful bill, his signature legislative achievement

741
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 14: arguably for the rest of his term, and nobody went

742
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 14: out and really sold it other than the Vice president,

743
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 14: who it was like an afterthought.

744
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: And Republicans today grumble.

745
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 14: About that because they have to go back to their

746
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 14: districts and defend it, right, And they didn't get any

747
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 14: high cover from cabinet members or from the President himself.

748
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 14: And so I'm not surprised that this is a lone

749
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 14: wolf effort. I mean, where's the entire cabinet push out

750
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 14: to all these other states, all these other businesses. What

751
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 14: events are going to be held in Washington while he's

752
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 14: in Pennsylvania.

753
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: Echoing the same message. So what do you make of that? Genie?

754
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: Is it because Donald Trump, in our remaining moment, is

755
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: the only one who can sell it.

756
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 15: He is the best salesperson they have. Obviously, he's one

757
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 15: of the best in the country on both sides of

758
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 15: the aisle. But the reality is people have been out.

759
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 15: Members of his cabinet are on the air all the time.

760
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 15: They are not necessarily going throughout the country. But the

761
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 15: problem is is they don't have a lot of good

762
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 15: news to sell. We are facing a crisis in healthcare.

763
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 15: They've got no answer for that. We are facing a

764
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 15: really coming off the heels of a really bad election

765
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 15: season for them. Consumers are angry, they're facing Christmas. So

766
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 15: you know, it's got to be Trump that's out there.

767
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 15: There's not a lot else they have to offer, and

768
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 15: he's got a trumpet.

769
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: This Well, we'll see how many dolls we can afford

770
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: this Christmas. Jeannie Shanzano and Rick Davis the best We

771
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: have many thanks to our panel. Coming up, our conversation

772
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: with Senator Pete Rick Its the Republican from Nebraska weighing

773
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 2: in on all the issues we're talking about today only

774
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg.

775
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

776
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 3: more coming up after this.

777
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch

778
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

779
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

780
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

781
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa.

782
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 8: Played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

783
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: Covering both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, and they do collide

784
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: on this issue of healthcare as the President prepares to

785
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: head off to Pennsylvania to talk about affordability. You've chose

786
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: a very smart time to join us, because an important

787
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 2: lunch directed by the Senate Republican leadership has just wrapped up,

788
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: and we might be able to start answering some of

789
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: the questions that we've been asking in our conversation earlier

790
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: with Rick Davis, Genie Shanzano, even earlier with Ashley Davis,

791
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: Republican's answer to the Democratic proposal on healthcare reform. This

792
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: came up last evening in Donald Trump's conversation on Politico.

793
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: He held an extended interview in which the issue of

794
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: extending the enhanced Obamacare subsidies came up.

795
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 3: Doosha Burns asked him about this.

796
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 4: Listen, will you tell Congress to extend those Obamacare subsidies?

797
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 5: While you want to know to say, I'd like to

798
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 5: get better healthcare. I'd like to have people by their

799
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 5: own health care get much better healthcare. And what I

800
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 5: want to do, for example, I want to give them

801
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 5: money to the people, not to the insurance people.

802
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: Just one of the ideas floated in this lunch meeting.

803
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: I can only assume on whether to hold a vote

804
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: on a Republican drafted alternative to whatever Democrats are going

805
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: to put forth and the promised vote on Thursday, and

806
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: what we understand is Democrats will seek a three year

807
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: extension to these COVID era subsidies.

808
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 3: A man who was in the room.

809
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 2: This is why I say you picked a real smart

810
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: time to join us on balance of power because a

811
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 2: man who was in the room is with us now.

812
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: Senator Pete Ricketts, Republican from Nebraska, live on Capitol Hill. Senator,

813
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: it's great to see you. Are you any closer to

814
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: answering these questions about what a Republican answer might look like?

815
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 9: Thank you very much for having me on.

816
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 16: And indeed, Republicans are going to put forward our own

817
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 16: plan with regard to how we fix this broken system.

818
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 16: Obamacare has been a disaster for the last nearly twenty years.

819
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 16: It's failed to deliver on its promises. You can't keep

820
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 16: your doctor. Prices just kept going up and up and up,

821
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 16: and we know that there's solutions out there. I agree

822
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 16: with you entirely with what the President was saying is

823
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 16: it's give the money to the people and not to

824
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 16: insurance companies. In fact, in the bill that we just

825
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 16: passed earlier with regard to reconciliation, we change it so

826
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 16: we could put HSA's with bronze little plans to be

827
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 16: able to give money directly to people as opposed to

828
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 16: giving it to insurance companies. We know there's a variety

829
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 16: of other things that will work as well, like allowing

830
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 16: people to buy insurance cross state lines, association healthcare plans,

831
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 16: creating high risk pools for people who've got pre existing

832
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 16: conditions to take care of them. So I think there's

833
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 16: a number of things that we can do to be

834
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 16: able to offer the American people that will actually help

835
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 16: start bringing the cost down instead of this failed system

836
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 16: that again the Democrats very cynically, you know, past these

837
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 16: Biden Obamacare pandemic subsidies, these bonuses, and they're about to expire,

838
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 16: but you know they were really meant to buck up

839
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 16: a system that was failing, and so just throwing more

840
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 16: money out of system. And to your point about Democrats

841
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 16: just want to extend the same system that we already

842
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 16: know is rife with fraud and corruption that's wasting you know,

843
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 16: millions and millions of dollars. This is not what we

844
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 16: want for the American people. We want to try and

845
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 16: find solutions.

846
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: Well, it was no worthy that Senate Majority Leader John

847
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: Thune last night decided to back the plan put forth

848
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: by Bill Cassidy and Mike Crapo, Senator. It doesn't sound

849
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: like the caucus has arrived at a plan.

850
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: Is that fair to say?

851
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 16: Actually, I had to leave the lunch before to get

852
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 16: to this interview, so I don't know what the final

853
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 16: outcome was.

854
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 9: But we were discussing, as point.

855
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 16: Out, this very idea of what we want to put forward.

856
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 16: And I think that putting forward our ideas with regard

857
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 16: to how we actually address healthcare, I know, as coming

858
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 16: from a Nebraska senator, I want to deliver for Nebraskans.

859
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 9: We want to be able to.

860
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 16: Show that we have got a plan that will help

861
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 16: Nebraskan's healthcare costs actually go down, not continue to go

862
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 16: out the way it has under Obamacare. I think most

863
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 16: Nebraskans know that Obamacare has been a failure, So we

864
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 16: as Republicans want to show here are some of the

865
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 16: ideas that can actually make a difference, versus continue to

866
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 16: support the same old Democrat system that we know has

867
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 16: failed and frankly is rife with corruption and fraud.

868
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: I almost feel like I should apologize for pulling the

869
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: out of that meeting center. That's pretty important stuff. Do

870
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: you have confidence that there will be a solution? We

871
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: hear about what's going to happen with subsidies and premiums

872
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 2: rising two, three and fourfold if we go over the

873
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: so called will there be a solution before the end

874
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 2: of the month.

875
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 16: One of the things I think it's important to note

876
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 16: is that when the Democrats put these Obamacare COVID bonuses out,

877
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 16: they took the caps off who could get them, So

878
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 16: we're providing these to people at much higher income levels.

879
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 16: What we really want to do is focus on helping

880
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 16: people who are at the lower income levels. With regard

881
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 16: to that, I absolutely believe there's a solution out there.

882
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 9: We do need Democrats help on this, right.

883
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 16: We need to get to sixty votes to be able

884
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 16: to pass anything with regard to how we're going to

885
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 16: reform healthcare.

886
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 9: So I certainly.

887
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 16: Encouraged Democrats to look at how we can find common

888
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 16: ground and solutions on bringing the healthcare costs down for

889
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 16: people who we really need to be helping, and really

890
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 16: for those folks at the higher income levels. Let's look

891
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 16: for solutions that involve them actually maybe getting private healthcare

892
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 16: or other solutions. But really, as the government, we should

893
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 16: be trying to help the people at the lower income level.

894
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about chips and national security.

895
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: Cenator with position on the Foreign Relations Committee Europe, with

896
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: an important bill here, and it's something that's very important

897
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: to our listeners and our viewers on Bloomberg, having just

898
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: spent twenty four hours talking about in Nvidia potentially selling

899
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: H two hundred chips to China. Of course we'll see

900
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: if China allows that to happen. But you've got a

901
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: Safe Act you're co sponsoring with Chris Coons that would

902
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: essentially codify the export controls as I understand it where

903
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: they are now.

904
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 3: It would cement them in place.

905
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: Does your bill compete with this idea of selling H

906
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 2: two hundreds to China?

907
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 16: So our bill, the Safe Chips Act, is designed to

908
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 16: make sure that we don't sell our high end AI

909
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 16: chips to China, and I really think it just supplements

910
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 16: what the administration is trying to do. It does give

911
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 16: the Commerce Secretary of the ability to adjust the standards

912
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 16: thirty months down the road. If the administration gives licenses

913
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 16: on the chips, like the Age two hundred. It doesn't

914
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 16: revoke any licenses the administration gives out. It doesn't really

915
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,959
Speaker 16: set a bar to slow down the number of chips

916
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 16: that would be going to communist China. We need to

917
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 16: remember that communist China only produced about five hundred and

918
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 16: seventy thousand of these chips last year compared to the

919
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 16: US and our allies producing like twenty million. They need us,

920
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 16: We need to slow this down. We don't want a

921
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 16: world where China is dominating AI. I know, for my

922
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 16: state and Nebraskans, I was as governor, the first governor

923
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 16: to ban TikTok, for example, on our state devices. Nebraskans

924
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 16: understand the risk that communist China poses. We don't want

925
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 16: a world where it's communist China's authoritarian values dominating AI.

926
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 16: We want to be able to be the ones that

927
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 16: are setting that, and so we want to keep our

928
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 16: competitive lead. And that's what our safe chip backs really

929
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 16: is designed to do, is to be able to help

930
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 16: America keep our AI chip lead.

931
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: So are you cool with selling h two hundreds to China, Senator?

932
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: Or are we playing with fire here?

933
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 16: I think there's dangerous and risky to give China high

934
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 16: end AI chips. I certainly encourage administration to think about

935
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 16: the risks that they're taking when they do this. I

936
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 16: don't know what the advisors are advising the President on

937
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 16: this with regard to that, but I think there is

938
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 16: a risk here that you know, China and other industries

939
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 16: has taken our technology, copied the intellectual property, and then

940
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 16: kicked our companies out. They've done this in all these industries,

941
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 16: and Chiji Pink specifically has said that he doesn't want

942
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 16: to be depending on the United States at all for

943
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 16: any of these AI chips, and they've invested billions and

944
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 16: billions of dollars in trying to get away from us.

945
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 16: So we should really take him at his word and

946
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 16: not help him actually get the technology and the know how.

947
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 9: And the chips. Frankly, for the compute power to be able.

948
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 16: To catch up US with the catch up with US

949
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 16: in this AI race. It's important we continue to have

950
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 16: a dominant position. And again that's what our Safe Safe

951
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 16: Chips Act does really helps us as a country, delivers

952
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 16: for US at national security.

953
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 2: Have you heard from Jensen Wong about this? His this

954
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: whole message has been the only way to win the

955
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 2: AI race is to get the entire world on the

956
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 2: American stack. If that's the case, does the H two

957
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: hundred represent that or are you drawing the line for

958
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 2: instance at the Blackwell chip that's the one that China

959
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: cannot get.

960
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 9: Well, again, I think.

961
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 16: That we should have slowed down any high end AI

962
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 16: chips from going to communist China. And frankly, that just

963
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 16: again and I think that helps us actually supplement what

964
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 16: we want to do with regard to dominating the AI

965
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 16: tech stack with American technology outside of communist China. So

966
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 16: remember sheij In paying, the dictator of Communist China, wants

967
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 16: to make sure that he's got his own chips and

968
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 16: his own technology, and we should have a dominant lead

969
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 16: on him.

970
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 9: And that's actually how.

971
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 16: We will win the race and the rest of the

972
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 16: world to make sure they're using the AI stack with

973
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 16: our technology, making sure they're using our AI models, using

974
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 16: our applications, that's.

975
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 9: What we want. And so again, keeping that commanding lead.

976
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 16: Will help make sure that we've got the ability to

977
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 16: deliver that American AI technology stack.

978
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 9: To the rest of the world.

979
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, is the White House behind this Senator that

980
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 2: would help a lot. I'm curious if you have the votes,

981
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: if Donald Trump says go for it, that would help,

982
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't it.

983
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 7: Well.

984
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 16: Sara Coons and I just introduced this bill last week.

985
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 16: As you can see, it's a Byparson bill. We've got

986
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 16: not only Sara Coons on it, but Senator Shaheen and

987
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 16: Senah Kim from the Democrat side, Sarah Cottin and Sarah

988
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 16: mcormack on my side. So we are just a route

989
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 16: just starting right now to socialize this idea. With my colleagues,

990
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 16: we're going to continue to work on how can we

991
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 16: make sure we limit the number of AI chips, especially

992
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 16: these high end ones right that are going to communist

993
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 16: China so we can continue to have our lead. So

994
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 16: we're going to continue to work with our colleagues here,

995
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 16: and of course we'll work with our colleagues in the

996
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 16: House and the White House as well to be able

997
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 16: to get that done.

998
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: A really interesting moment that we're in with regard to Ukraine.

999
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 2: Senator and I know that the NDAA, the National Defense

1000
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: Authorization Act, includes I believe four hundred million dollars to

1001
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: support efforts in Ukraine through intelligence, through military and so forth.

1002
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: Is that the way to end this war is to

1003
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: continue supporting Ukraine.

1004
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 16: Dictator Putin is only going to end this war when

1005
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 16: he thinks he's losing it, and so we've got to

1006
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 16: get to the point where he believes he's got more

1007
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 16: to gain through a peace than continuing this war. That

1008
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 16: means we need to continue to support Ukraine to make

1009
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 16: sure they've got a strong battlefield.

1010
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 9: Defense.

1011
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 16: Intelligence is obviously part of how we can do that.

1012
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 16: We also need to make sure we're ramping up the

1013
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 16: sanctions on them and frankly, helping drive down the price

1014
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 16: of oil, such as the administration of President Trump have done.

1015
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: It really helps us do that.

1016
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 16: That helps keep us safer when we've got a dictator

1017
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 16: like Putin who believes that he's under more pressure.

1018
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 9: So we should continue to do that.

1019
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 16: And again that's how we deliver our national security for

1020
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 16: our countries, to make sure that we got dictators in check,

1021
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 16: and so making sure that Ukraine is successful in pushing

1022
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 16: back on Putin is the ways that we can help

1023
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 16: make our own country.

1024
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 3: Stronger well in our remaining moment.

1025
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: Senator, do you support the peace plan that's being formulated

1026
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: what you've heard about that so far, do you think

1027
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: it rewards the man you just called dictator Putin.

1028
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 16: Well, we all want to see the fighting the Ukraine stop,

1029
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 16: and what we need to do is make sure that

1030
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 16: we have Ukraine in a strong position to resist aggression

1031
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 16: in the future. So making sure that they've got the

1032
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 16: weapons they need, they've got the army they need to

1033
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 16: be able to defend themselves, that they've got the support

1034
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 16: from Europe, and that they've got appropriate security guarantees are

1035
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 16: all the things that we're going to need to have

1036
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 16: to get to a final peace agreement. We don't want

1037
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 16: to have something where Putin can just years later or

1038
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 16: even just the next year, decide he's rebuilt enough to

1039
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 16: attack Ukraine again. So it's got to be something that

1040
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 16: actually has Ukraine in a strong position to be able

1041
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 16: to resist aggression in the future. Because frankly, again Pun's

1042
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 16: a dictator, He's going to continue to come after Ukraine.

1043
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 16: Russia has done this for centuries. This is not something

1044
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 16: new that Russia has done just in the last.

1045
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 9: Couple of years.

1046
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 16: So you're going to have to make sure that you've

1047
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 16: ranged in a strong position going forward.

1048
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: Well, Senator, I appreciate your time.

1049
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: You've been very generous and it's good to compare notes

1050
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: on a series of topics. Today, Pete Ricketts, the Republican

1051
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 2: from Nebraska, with us live from Capitol Hill.

1052
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: Senator, thank you, thanks for listening to the Balance of

1053
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 3: Power podcast.

1054
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

1055
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

1056
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

1057
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.