WEBVTT - Chuck Bryant 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:04.320 Chuck, is it really true that your podcast has been 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:10.800 downloaded a billion times? It's weird? H my effie goodness, 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:15.800 I know it's crazy. It's it's amazing. It really is 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.400 weird because it's that show. It's not a show about 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.600 like how to boil an egg. It's a show about 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.919 stuff that is really will help and change people. Like 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.400 that's extremely edifying. And I'm so in all of that curiosity, 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.559 and yeah, yeah, it feels good. It's it's weird, trust me, 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.839 And I told you what wick up every day? Mike. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.760 What would I be doing. I was a writer, so 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.520 I'd probably be writing pamphlets for cell phone companies or something. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.680 Oh my god, well, I'm very glad you're not. I'm 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:50.000 very glad you're hello. I'm Mini Driver and welcome to 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.680 the Mini Questions. Growing up, my family always had the 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.720 radio on. I loved the ritual of listening to shows 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.680 like Desert Island Discs on a Sunday morning and hearing 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.479 interesting people answer the same set of questions. Later. Whenever 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:07.560 I got my copy of Vanity fairback when you actually 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.560 bought hard copies of magazines, I would always turn to 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.000 the back page first and read their version of Proust's questionnaire. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.920 I think it's the scientific method really. In asking different 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.920 people the same set of questions, you can make interesting 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.720 observations about the way we're the same and different. I 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.640 love this discipline, and it made me wonder, what if 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.600 these questions were just the jumping off point, what greater 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.440 depths would be revealed if I asked these questions as 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.520 conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all these 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.399 different disciplines. I think of this show as a mini archive, 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.399 no pun intended, although it's sort of unavoidable, where I 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.280 invite you to observe how these trailblazers overlap and also 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.880 where they don't. So I took the format of Prus's 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.000 questionnaire and adapted what I think are seven of the 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.720 most important questions you could ever ask someone. They are 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.400 where then? Where were you happiest? What is the quality 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:08.320 you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.840 defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:17.600 What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.560 What would be your last meal? And can you tell 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.360 me something in your life that has grown out of 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.880 a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of remarkable 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.359 people that I am honored and humbled to have had 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.920 the chance to engage with. You may not hear their 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.920 answers to all seven of these questions. We've selected the 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.400 ones that felt closest to their experience, or were the 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.720 most surprising, or the ones that provided the most fertile 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:49.520 ground to connect. And today we're talking to Chuck Bryant 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.720 with his co host. Chuck is the host of the 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.720 podcast Stuff you Should Know, which if you haven't listened 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.120 to this right after you listen to me, you need 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.760 to go and listen. He's also got another podcast called 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.280 Movie Crush if you're a movie buff, which I am. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.680 He's down to earth genius and he's talking to me 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.840 right now. Chuck, I have so many more questions for 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.440 you than the seven questions that I'm allowed, because I'm 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.880 fascinated about the trajectory to the podcast that you do 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.840 so successfully with Josh Clark. I mad about Stuff you 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.720 Should Know, And I was going to say, did you 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.880 know a lot of this stuff before? Oh? No, I mean, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.640 it's uh, we very much kind of fell into it 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.000 and and I'm very fortunate, like I feel like we 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.600 sort of bought a small house in a great neighborhood 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.000 years ago, almost fourteen years ago, when podcasting was in 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.480 its infancy and the industry kind of just grew up 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.920 around us. And I wake up every day and say 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.200 thank you for this weird life that I kind of 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.960 wandered into. I'm a huge fan. The Mexican wrestling episode 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.200 is one of my favorites because I thought it was 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.960 just large men and masks. I didn't know anything about 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.240 the history of the masks, and it's so beautiful and 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.200 amazing and weird and anyway, your podcast is a mitzvah 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:16.479 for all of us. So my first question where and 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:22.119 when were you happiest? Well, I mean, do people cheat 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.760 and sort of dabble in multiple answers? You know what, 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:28.800 I don't know if that's cheating. I think I would 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:30.800 hope that you've been happy more than once. But no, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.200 do feel free to do an appetizer, main course, and 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.440 dessert if you fancy. Okay, yeah, I mean because when 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.560 I think about when I've been happiest, there are my 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.280 college years, when I was living in Athens, Georgia for 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.760 six years, and especially as I approached fifty years old, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.640 looking back on the time when responsibility was nil and 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.880 I was waiting tables and felt like I was making 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.440 all the money in the world, you know, living cheaply, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.719 and just you know, these are still my friends that 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.760 I have today, My like, my closest friends are from 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.080 those years, and we all live within two or three 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.360 miles of each other here in Atlanta. So I think 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.360 about those years. But I think when am I happiest 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.280 in the present tense? I sort of, I guess would 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.120 like to set a little scene, which is I'm in 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.559 my sun room in my home, and it's very lovely, 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.360 lots of windows, lots of sun, lots of sun. It's 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.240 early evening. I've got a glass of wine. My two 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.640 dogs and two cats are in there. My wife is 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.159 in the fat chair reading a home design magazine. Michael 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.640 Kiwanuka is playing on the radio, and I'm playing with 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.159 my daughter. I'm building something with her, like legos or magnetiles. 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.880 That's when I'm happiest. Now, those are the best moments. 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.599 Do you think that your awareness of when you're happy 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:50.560 do you think that it has a sort of a 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.680 knock on effect to the rest of your life, That 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.320 awareness of being able to say it's in my son room, 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.880 it's playing magnetized with my little daughter, knowing my wife 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.880 is close. Do you think that that reminds us to 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.080 absorb it where it may not be so so obvious. Yeah, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:08.840 I mean, I think that's something I have to work 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.360 on in the obvious moments. I very much am in 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.440 that moment, like in the sunroom, you know, especially being 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.839 an older father to a younger child, like really recognizing 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.839 the importance of every day like that, because you know 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.200 how it is, they get older and you lose those 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.279 moments they get older quick. Try not to dwell on 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.880 that because it just makes me cry every time. So 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.840 I try to really be in those moments, sort of 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.280 step back and say like, all right, you're having one 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.839 of those life moments like drink it in man. But 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:41.800 it's something I have to work on. Yeah, I mean 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.840 I think we all do. I think we all do. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:53.599 What is the quality that you least like about yourself? Well, 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.200 I mean this is pretty revealing stuff here. It's like 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:04.000 therapy territory a bit. I think my reticence to change 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:09.840 things about myself that I know for a fact would 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:14.520 improve myself. Getting kind of stuck and letting myself up 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.880 too easily, giving myself permission to not be the best 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:23.000 me too easily. I'm too easy on myself. I think 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:24.880 that's probably the best way to sum it up. I 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.480 love them. Most people are like, I'm too hard on myself. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.800 You're like, I'm way too easy on myself. I am 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.080 way too easy on myself. I really am, to my 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:36.480 own detriment. Part of it is procrastination, like, yeah, I'll 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.600 work on that tomorrow, Like I need to drop some weight, 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.600 but do I today, not today, tomorrow, and then the 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.559 next day and the next day, so you know, taking 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.320 the easier path. I can be a bit lazy sometimes 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.360 in a lot of ways, but certainly in ways of 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.240 self improvement. I gets so mad at myself that I 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.360 don't hold myself more accountable, especially now with a young daughter. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.160 Like just you know how they do. They're soaking it 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.240 all in, They're watching everything you do. I know they 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.320 forever change us, obviously, our children. What we forget is 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.320 that they continue to forever change us because we are 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.960 always being reflected back, and we have this little person. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.800 You know, when they say their first cuss word that 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.920 they heard you say only yesterday, right, it's quite sobering 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.480 to know that they are these little sponges. And I 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.360 can't imagine that my twelve year old will ever stop 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.120 tacitly making me modify my own behavior because I see 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.800 him pick up on everything that I do. Is that 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.600 something that you felt like you needed a lot of 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.320 work to be the best example or were you pretty 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.240 squared away? And it's just little things here and there, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.640 you know what, I was really ready to be a parent, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.959 and I have a very flexible but just available view 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.840 of parenting. I feel like parenting is bearing witness. Why 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.240 it's like, mommy, watch this, just watch them. Yeah, you 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.360 don't have to do anything. But I've noticed that things 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.240 that he's picked up on, whether it's my anxiety or 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.600 some quick fire temper stuff that I go, oh, ship, yeah, 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.559 I have to really look at that because I'm quite 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.480 literally teaching him that this is a sanctioned basic architecture 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.600 and we're all faulted humans. But it's good to be 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.960 aware of that stuff, you know. Yeah, I mean it 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.160 can be so great when you see yourself in your 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.200 child or you see your partner in your child, but 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.240 it can also be the scariest thing, terrifying. It's terrifying, 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:42.240 Absolutely terrifying. Then you see the generational passing on. It's like, whoa, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.160 somebody stopped this train. This is nuts, Like, but you 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.480 can't do that though it doesn't work that way, does it? Know? 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.000 I think you know. It all depends on your modeling 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.720 that you got growing up to and without getting too 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:57.720 much into the weeds on that, I didn't have some 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.199 of the best modeling growing up with my parents in 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.599 a lot of ways. So the kid either wants to 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.079 grow up and do things completely different, or the kid 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.240 grows up and binding himself falling into those same traps 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.280 that your parents were in. You've got a choice to make, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.720 that is it. You either grow up and you repeat, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.920 or you grew up and you change. Because you don't 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.600 want to repeat, and you're aware of that, You're right, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.680 it's a choice. It's a fork in the road. I 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.160 think I probably do a bit of both. I think, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.120 well maybe everybody, if you're lucky, you do a bit 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:44.200 of both as opposed to just repeating. My next question 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:50.880 is what relationship, either real or fictionalized, defines love for you. Yeah, 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.360 this is a three way relationship with my wife Emily 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.640 and my daughter Ruby. She's adopted, and there's always just 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:03.440 some crazy story about that. Actual process. Ours is no different. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.880 It's never easy, it's always weird. But we had trouble 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.199 getting pregnant for years and then went to Plan B, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.559 and I wasn't a d down with Plan B. I 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.000 kind of thought, well, you know, if it's not gonna 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:17.960 happen for us, maybe we have a life where we 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.400 don't have a kid at all, and we just can 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.959 pick up and travel whenever we want and we're beholden 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.560 to no one but ourselves. And that kind of appealed 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.360 to me a little bit for a minute, and then 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.120 I got on board and it all came together very fast. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.520 And you know, now I can envision my life any 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.520 other way. Like if I could go back and have 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.640 a biological child, there's just no way I would do it, 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.559 because our life went in this direction. I can't imagine 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.720 being more connected to a biological child than I am 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.640 with Ruby. And you know, as apparent, it's the purest, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.199 purest form of love there is. There's no strings attached, 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.840 it's not transactional, it's unconditional. It'll get more complicated as 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.200 she gets older, but those first few years, it's just 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.839 that purity of love is very instructive and teaches me 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.200 a lot about life, well, five year old teaching me 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.760 about life. Yeah, And isn't amazing for that to become 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.840 something that defines love for you when in concept it 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.080 was something that you couldn't even really get your head around. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.320 The paradigm of our hearts is extraordinary and myriad and 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.640 so beautiful. I love that you could go from this 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.040 idea of why I don't even know if I want 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:32.800 to adopt, and maybe we're meant to just have this 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.960 life of just me and my wife, and now you're 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.920 in this place where you simply cannot imagine your life 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:44.120 without your little girl. I love the flexibility of our 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.599 hearts and the complete, unquantifiable nature of them. They're just 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.480 sort of unbridled in their space and depth. That's such 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.400 an exciting thing to remember. Yeah, and in the heart. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.360 Like when I say you had to have the open 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.960 heart for that, it it doesn't even have to be 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.600 the castle door completely open, like you just have to 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:09.160 provide the smallest opening sometimes. Oh oh, that's a really 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.280 good point. And they can worm anything. Anyone can worm 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.760 their way in and take residence there. That's a really 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.840 good point. You don't have to pull the drawbridge all 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.600 the way up. You can just have a little bit 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:25.040 up and that's going to have this massive effect. Yeah. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.480 The other leg to the tripod that is my life 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.120 is my wife Emily and marry my best friend, and like, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.040 I highly recommend it. I agree, it's a good thing 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.480 to do. We go at it too, and fight like 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.000 cats and dogs. It's not all wine and roses or anything, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.920 but you know, we always make up. I think you've 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.640 sometimes you just gotta yell at somebody. Oh yeah, that 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.160 should be an Oh I want to yet somebody I 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.520 want to really get. You have to yell at someone. 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.559 You have to with somebody who loves me though, that's 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.640 the important part. Somebody who loves me. And that was 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.640 the thing. Like I said, I didn't have the greatest modeling. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.559 A lot of yelling and fighting in my house. And 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.240 the difference is, like I never really saw my parents 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.400 make up. It's just a long fight. So we always 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.640 make a big point to like make up and let 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.080 her see that and tell her like, hey, listen, mommy 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.080 and daddy fights sometimes, but we're always going to come 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.960 back together. You know. Sometimes it's the next day we 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.640 never subscribed to the don't go to bed mad like No, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.040 sometimes you can go to bed mad. Oh yeah, I'm 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.080 a big advocate of going to bed mad. It's sounding 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.960 like a really bad night's sleep, sleeping on and waking 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.720 up feeling shitty and then going you know what, I 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.200 really don't want to feel like this anymore. Like I said, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.440 you know, we go at it like cats and dogs sometimes. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.160 But you know, when I'm traveling for work, I'm gone 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.120 for a day and I missed them both terribly. You know, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.800 I can still have some wonderful experiences alone. Sometimes when 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.320 we do live shows on tours and stuff, I'll have 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.520 some really great nights exploring in town by myself. I'll 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.720 have so much fun. But at some point, inevitably I 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.840 think I wish they were here with me. But with 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.720 COVID lockdown too, It's like this is when everyone's metal 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.640 is tested as far as who they're partnering with and 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.320 who they're rooting down with. And we we've had a 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.000 pretty good time. Yeah, I gotta say I love him 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.680 more now having been through this, my partner and all 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.040 of this, I really do. It's interesting how you'd think 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.040 you'd want to get away from people, and you do, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:28.880 but in not being able to get away from them. 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.760 The other answer is to sort of go deeper and 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.960 to laugh more. We've laughed an enormous amount, like sometimes 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:45.040 slightly hysterically, but I always love What question would you 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:49.280 most like answered? I'm sure that people tend to go 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.320 towards the metaphysical, the you know, are we alone in 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.360 the universe type of stuff. I kind of wish I 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:03.120 could understand true goodness and selflessness. I said, to let 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.480 myself up too easily. I'm also very hard on myself 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.000 mentally as far as like, I'm so selfish and and 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.240 I hate it when I do selfish things. But I 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.800 know people that just seem like pure goodness and pure selflessness. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.040 I'd very much like to understand the human brain more 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:21.880 when it comes to how much of that has learned. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.440 Obsess about nature and nurture as an adopted parent, and 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.600 also am equally fascinated by true evil as well as 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.960 true goodness, And I think just sort of understanding the 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.720 combination of nature and nurture that make up personality and 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.000 goodness and badness. Would you like that answered, because you'd 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.600 like to know how to corral that in yourself more 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.560 or just because you are clearly a person who is 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:53.239 interested in the world around you and knowing things and 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.320 disseminating that information to others, so that if you could 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.800 say what goodness was, then you could more easily understand 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.600 what evil was. I think both, boy, that's a great question. 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.160 Both I would use it for self improvement and also 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.560 with stuff. You should know, we've done so much on 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.639 the human brain, and we know so much more now 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.880 than we ever have, but it's still such a mystery 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.800 what is going on up there and that weird looking 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.600 clod of neurons that sits within our skull, Like, there's 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.000 so much mystery there. And you know, we've done episodes 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.800 on sociopathy and true crime stuff like the Worst of 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.159 the Worst. There's so much research now on literal like 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.840 brain injury early on and how that can take someone 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.280 down a bad path. And I look at that stuff 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.480 and it's just fascinating to me. And there is no 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.720 good without evil and evil without good. So I think 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.280 it's like understanding the human brain and what nature wise 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.119 brings us in a certain direction, and how much nurturer 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.520 can can say no, and how much notes you could 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.760 maybe heal and and change it back for sure? What 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.840 do you think about nature and nurture? God? It was 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.879 one of my four o'clock in the morning thoughts this 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.560 particular morning. I mean, as I lay there wondering about 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.879 what on earth was going to happen with everything, like 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.240 you do these days. So when I had my little 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.159 tiny baby, I was a single mom and I was 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.120 so scared after the first couple of weeks of being 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.800 alone with him at night, because I was like, I 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.399 am an idiot. I have made so many mistakes in 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.920 my life. Who was entrusted this tiny being to my care? 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.919 And what if something happens and I don't know what 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.359 to do. So I called a friend of mine and 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.720 she went, oh, you've got to call my mate Stella. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.320 She'll come round and she'll be a night nurse with you. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.600 She'll be there with you and you can talk to her. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.160 So began just the happiest two weeks of my life. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.239 Apart from having this new tiny baby. There was this 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.560 amazing woman from the north of England who would just 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.399 come and she sat on my sofa while I was 0:18:58.440 --> 0:18:59.720 feeding the baby in the midle of the night, and 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.200 she chat to me about children and babies and childcare 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.640 and everything that she knew. And I would just ask 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.439 her endless questions in the fog of this middle of 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:15.040 the night, heavy milk and two women sharing I suppose 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.720 like it was an ancient transaction. And one of the 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.840 things that I asked her was, all these babies that 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.280 you've come across, can you tell me about nature and 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.760 nurture and like these babies that you've seen and you've 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.560 spent time with, and then who they grew up to be. 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.080 And she said, I've got to tell you beyond just 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.400 like the physical things which you you can't really get 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.399 away from, like colic. A baby has colic. Some babies 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.760 just get colic. It doesn't matter what the mother eats 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.080 and then feeds the baby. It just happens. But she's like, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.520 you see that these beings they come in with a 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:54.639 certain amount that is just completely and utterly them. And 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.720 she said, and then you watch how the parenting either 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.159 frames that and holds it in a place that it 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.640 can kind of grow, or they suffocate it, or they 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.880 don't really put it on any kind of pedestal at all, 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.800 and so it kind of grows wild. And she said 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.200 she was always fascinated by that fundamental kind of nugget 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.560 of that person. I've watched with my own son because 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.000 he was my only science test with this, and I 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.480 was always aware of that. I always saw from the 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.560 very beginning who this person was. And I've thought about 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.400 in the moments in our life together, whether I'm lifting 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.880 that up, whether I'm suffocating it. Am I damaging it? 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.560 Do I need to censure it? How am I framing it? 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.480 Because as his custodian, that's my job. But I think 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.560 nurture is huge, but you have to honor and respect 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:54.040 that nature as the nurturer. You have to have a 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.240 modicum of inquiry into what that nature is before you 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:03.280 can start nurturing. It's so fascinating. My daughter has a 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.440 very good heart, and that is something that you can't 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.719 I don't think. I mean maybe you can. In our experience, 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.520 we did not nurture that into her. I mean we've tried, 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.000 like you said, we've tried to reinforce that and build 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.760 it up. But she just has a good heart. She's 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.960 a sweet kid, and you see it in her relationships 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.920 with her little friends and how she plays. And when 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.119 you see a kid that is not like that, It 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.440 makes me sort of feel bad for that kid and 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.880 think like that kid's gonna struggle in life, kids who 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.760 struggle with their instinct being to like push another kid 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.040 or to help another kid up. You know, sometimes it's 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.240 as simple as that. What a gift with with that 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.000 night nurse. Wow, that's amazing. Those are the heroes that like, 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.760 when you hear about a person like that, it's it 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.040 almost feels like magic. Oh, she was amazing. She told 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.600 me so much. Was a cool moment in my life. 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.520 I mean as a person and as a new mother. 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.760 It felt pretty ancient because you realize that women have 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.520 been doing that forever and ever and ever that has 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:15.080 existed in our culture. An elder woman teaching another woman 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.640 because you know most you know, girls can get pregnant, 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.040 but you're not also instilled when you get pregnant. You 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.560 don't suddenly have this giant download of what you're meant 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:25.600 to do with the baby you have don't have a clue. 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.439 They love doing that for my friends, of passing on 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:44.040 what was passed on to me. It's nice. This might 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:49.000 be my favorite question because I love food. But what 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.840 would be your last meal? Well, I'm going a cheap, 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.560 big time on this one. How are you? I am, 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.960 because I'm going to set up something that's not real, 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.640 that's magic, which is well, I'm set up a scene. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.200 It's not just a meal. It is all my friends 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.200 and family together at a big party, big pot luck, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.720