1
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,320
Speaker 1: Chuck, is it really true that your podcast has been

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:10,800
Speaker 1: downloaded a billion times? It's weird? H my effie goodness,

3
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: I know it's crazy. It's it's amazing. It really is

4
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: weird because it's that show. It's not a show about

5
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,600
Speaker 1: like how to boil an egg. It's a show about

6
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,919
Speaker 1: stuff that is really will help and change people. Like

7
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 1: that's extremely edifying. And I'm so in all of that curiosity,

8
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,559
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, it feels good. It's it's weird, trust me,

9
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: And I told you what wick up every day? Mike.

10
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: What would I be doing. I was a writer, so

11
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,520
Speaker 1: I'd probably be writing pamphlets for cell phone companies or something.

12
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, well, I'm very glad you're not. I'm

13
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 1: very glad you're hello. I'm Mini Driver and welcome to

14
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 1: the Mini Questions. Growing up, my family always had the

15
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 1: radio on. I loved the ritual of listening to shows

16
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,680
Speaker 1: like Desert Island Discs on a Sunday morning and hearing

17
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,479
Speaker 1: interesting people answer the same set of questions. Later. Whenever

18
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: I got my copy of Vanity fairback when you actually

19
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 1: bought hard copies of magazines, I would always turn to

20
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 1: the back page first and read their version of Proust's questionnaire.

21
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,920
Speaker 1: I think it's the scientific method really. In asking different

22
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 1: people the same set of questions, you can make interesting

23
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 1: observations about the way we're the same and different. I

24
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 1: love this discipline, and it made me wonder, what if

25
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: these questions were just the jumping off point, what greater

26
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,440
Speaker 1: depths would be revealed if I asked these questions as

27
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 1: conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all these

28
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,399
Speaker 1: different disciplines. I think of this show as a mini archive,

29
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 1: no pun intended, although it's sort of unavoidable, where I

30
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 1: invite you to observe how these trailblazers overlap and also

31
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: where they don't. So I took the format of Prus's

32
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 1: questionnaire and adapted what I think are seven of the

33
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 1: most important questions you could ever ask someone. They are

34
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: where then? Where were you happiest? What is the quality

35
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 1: you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized,

36
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,840
Speaker 1: defines love for you? What question would you most like answered,

37
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most?

38
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 1: What would be your last meal? And can you tell

39
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 1: me something in your life that has grown out of

40
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 1: a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of remarkable

41
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 1: people that I am honored and humbled to have had

42
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,920
Speaker 1: the chance to engage with. You may not hear their

43
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 1: answers to all seven of these questions. We've selected the

44
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: ones that felt closest to their experience, or were the

45
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 1: most surprising, or the ones that provided the most fertile

46
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,520
Speaker 1: ground to connect. And today we're talking to Chuck Bryant

47
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 1: with his co host. Chuck is the host of the

48
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 1: podcast Stuff you Should Know, which if you haven't listened

49
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 1: to this right after you listen to me, you need

50
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,760
Speaker 1: to go and listen. He's also got another podcast called

51
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 1: Movie Crush if you're a movie buff, which I am.

52
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,680
Speaker 1: He's down to earth genius and he's talking to me

53
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 1: right now. Chuck, I have so many more questions for

54
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: you than the seven questions that I'm allowed, because I'm

55
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 1: fascinated about the trajectory to the podcast that you do

56
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 1: so successfully with Josh Clark. I mad about Stuff you

57
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: Should Know, And I was going to say, did you

58
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: know a lot of this stuff before? Oh? No, I mean,

59
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: it's uh, we very much kind of fell into it

60
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: and and I'm very fortunate, like I feel like we

61
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 1: sort of bought a small house in a great neighborhood

62
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: years ago, almost fourteen years ago, when podcasting was in

63
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,480
Speaker 1: its infancy and the industry kind of just grew up

64
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 1: around us. And I wake up every day and say

65
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: thank you for this weird life that I kind of

66
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 1: wandered into. I'm a huge fan. The Mexican wrestling episode

67
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 1: is one of my favorites because I thought it was

68
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: just large men and masks. I didn't know anything about

69
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 1: the history of the masks, and it's so beautiful and

70
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 1: amazing and weird and anyway, your podcast is a mitzvah

71
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:16,479
Speaker 1: for all of us. So my first question where and

72
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:22,119
Speaker 1: when were you happiest? Well, I mean, do people cheat

73
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 1: and sort of dabble in multiple answers? You know what,

74
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's cheating. I think I would

75
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 1: hope that you've been happy more than once. But no,

76
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 1: do feel free to do an appetizer, main course, and

77
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: dessert if you fancy. Okay, yeah, I mean because when

78
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: I think about when I've been happiest, there are my

79
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 1: college years, when I was living in Athens, Georgia for

80
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: six years, and especially as I approached fifty years old,

81
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: looking back on the time when responsibility was nil and

82
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: I was waiting tables and felt like I was making

83
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,440
Speaker 1: all the money in the world, you know, living cheaply,

84
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 1: and just you know, these are still my friends that

85
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,760
Speaker 1: I have today, My like, my closest friends are from

86
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 1: those years, and we all live within two or three

87
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 1: miles of each other here in Atlanta. So I think

88
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 1: about those years. But I think when am I happiest

89
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,280
Speaker 1: in the present tense? I sort of, I guess would

90
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 1: like to set a little scene, which is I'm in

91
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,559
Speaker 1: my sun room in my home, and it's very lovely,

92
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,360
Speaker 1: lots of windows, lots of sun, lots of sun. It's

93
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,240
Speaker 1: early evening. I've got a glass of wine. My two

94
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: dogs and two cats are in there. My wife is

95
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 1: in the fat chair reading a home design magazine. Michael

96
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: Kiwanuka is playing on the radio, and I'm playing with

97
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 1: my daughter. I'm building something with her, like legos or magnetiles.

98
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: That's when I'm happiest. Now, those are the best moments.

99
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 1: Do you think that your awareness of when you're happy

100
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 1: do you think that it has a sort of a

101
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,680
Speaker 1: knock on effect to the rest of your life, That

102
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 1: awareness of being able to say it's in my son room,

103
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 1: it's playing magnetized with my little daughter, knowing my wife

104
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: is close. Do you think that that reminds us to

105
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 1: absorb it where it may not be so so obvious. Yeah,

106
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's something I have to work

107
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: on in the obvious moments. I very much am in

108
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: that moment, like in the sunroom, you know, especially being

109
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 1: an older father to a younger child, like really recognizing

110
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 1: the importance of every day like that, because you know

111
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 1: how it is, they get older and you lose those

112
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,279
Speaker 1: moments they get older quick. Try not to dwell on

113
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,880
Speaker 1: that because it just makes me cry every time. So

114
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,840
Speaker 1: I try to really be in those moments, sort of

115
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 1: step back and say like, all right, you're having one

116
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 1: of those life moments like drink it in man. But

117
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 1: it's something I have to work on. Yeah, I mean

118
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 1: I think we all do. I think we all do.

119
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 1: What is the quality that you least like about yourself? Well,

120
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 1: I mean this is pretty revealing stuff here. It's like

121
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: therapy territory a bit. I think my reticence to change

122
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 1: things about myself that I know for a fact would

123
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 1: improve myself. Getting kind of stuck and letting myself up

124
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: too easily, giving myself permission to not be the best

125
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: me too easily. I'm too easy on myself. I think

126
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: that's probably the best way to sum it up. I

127
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 1: love them. Most people are like, I'm too hard on myself.

128
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm way too easy on myself. I am

129
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: way too easy on myself. I really am, to my

130
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: own detriment. Part of it is procrastination, like, yeah, I'll

131
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 1: work on that tomorrow, Like I need to drop some weight,

132
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 1: but do I today, not today, tomorrow, and then the

133
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,559
Speaker 1: next day and the next day, so you know, taking

134
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 1: the easier path. I can be a bit lazy sometimes

135
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,360
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, but certainly in ways of

136
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: self improvement. I gets so mad at myself that I

137
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: don't hold myself more accountable, especially now with a young daughter.

138
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 1: Like just you know how they do. They're soaking it

139
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 1: all in, They're watching everything you do. I know they

140
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 1: forever change us, obviously, our children. What we forget is

141
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 1: that they continue to forever change us because we are

142
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: always being reflected back, and we have this little person.

143
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 1: You know, when they say their first cuss word that

144
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 1: they heard you say only yesterday, right, it's quite sobering

145
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: to know that they are these little sponges. And I

146
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: can't imagine that my twelve year old will ever stop

147
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 1: tacitly making me modify my own behavior because I see

148
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 1: him pick up on everything that I do. Is that

149
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: something that you felt like you needed a lot of

150
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 1: work to be the best example or were you pretty

151
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: squared away? And it's just little things here and there,

152
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I was really ready to be a parent,

153
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,959
Speaker 1: and I have a very flexible but just available view

154
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: of parenting. I feel like parenting is bearing witness. Why

155
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: it's like, mommy, watch this, just watch them. Yeah, you

156
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything. But I've noticed that things

157
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: that he's picked up on, whether it's my anxiety or

158
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 1: some quick fire temper stuff that I go, oh, ship, yeah,

159
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,559
Speaker 1: I have to really look at that because I'm quite

160
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,480
Speaker 1: literally teaching him that this is a sanctioned basic architecture

161
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 1: and we're all faulted humans. But it's good to be

162
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 1: aware of that stuff, you know. Yeah, I mean it

163
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: can be so great when you see yourself in your

164
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 1: child or you see your partner in your child, but

165
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 1: it can also be the scariest thing, terrifying. It's terrifying,

166
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely terrifying. Then you see the generational passing on. It's like, whoa,

167
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 1: somebody stopped this train. This is nuts, Like, but you

168
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: can't do that though it doesn't work that way, does it? Know?

169
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: I think you know. It all depends on your modeling

170
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 1: that you got growing up to and without getting too

171
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: much into the weeds on that, I didn't have some

172
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,199
Speaker 1: of the best modeling growing up with my parents in

173
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,599
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. So the kid either wants to

174
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,079
Speaker 1: grow up and do things completely different, or the kid

175
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: grows up and binding himself falling into those same traps

176
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: that your parents were in. You've got a choice to make,

177
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 1: that is it. You either grow up and you repeat,

178
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 1: or you grew up and you change. Because you don't

179
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 1: want to repeat, and you're aware of that, You're right,

180
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 1: it's a choice. It's a fork in the road. I

181
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 1: think I probably do a bit of both. I think,

182
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: well maybe everybody, if you're lucky, you do a bit

183
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:44,200
Speaker 1: of both as opposed to just repeating. My next question

184
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: is what relationship, either real or fictionalized, defines love for you. Yeah,

185
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 1: this is a three way relationship with my wife Emily

186
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,640
Speaker 1: and my daughter Ruby. She's adopted, and there's always just

187
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,440
Speaker 1: some crazy story about that. Actual process. Ours is no different.

188
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 1: It's never easy, it's always weird. But we had trouble

189
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,199
Speaker 1: getting pregnant for years and then went to Plan B,

190
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,559
Speaker 1: and I wasn't a d down with Plan B. I

191
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: kind of thought, well, you know, if it's not gonna

192
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,960
Speaker 1: happen for us, maybe we have a life where we

193
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 1: don't have a kid at all, and we just can

194
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,959
Speaker 1: pick up and travel whenever we want and we're beholden

195
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,560
Speaker 1: to no one but ourselves. And that kind of appealed

196
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: to me a little bit for a minute, and then

197
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 1: I got on board and it all came together very fast.

198
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 1: And you know, now I can envision my life any

199
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 1: other way. Like if I could go back and have

200
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 1: a biological child, there's just no way I would do it,

201
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,559
Speaker 1: because our life went in this direction. I can't imagine

202
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 1: being more connected to a biological child than I am

203
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,640
Speaker 1: with Ruby. And you know, as apparent, it's the purest,

204
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,199
Speaker 1: purest form of love there is. There's no strings attached,

205
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 1: it's not transactional, it's unconditional. It'll get more complicated as

206
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 1: she gets older, but those first few years, it's just

207
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,839
Speaker 1: that purity of love is very instructive and teaches me

208
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 1: a lot about life, well, five year old teaching me

209
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 1: about life. Yeah, And isn't amazing for that to become

210
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 1: something that defines love for you when in concept it

211
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 1: was something that you couldn't even really get your head around.

212
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 1: The paradigm of our hearts is extraordinary and myriad and

213
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,640
Speaker 1: so beautiful. I love that you could go from this

214
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: idea of why I don't even know if I want

215
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 1: to adopt, and maybe we're meant to just have this

216
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: life of just me and my wife, and now you're

217
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,920
Speaker 1: in this place where you simply cannot imagine your life

218
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: without your little girl. I love the flexibility of our

219
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,599
Speaker 1: hearts and the complete, unquantifiable nature of them. They're just

220
00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: sort of unbridled in their space and depth. That's such

221
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 1: an exciting thing to remember. Yeah, and in the heart.

222
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 1: Like when I say you had to have the open

223
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 1: heart for that, it it doesn't even have to be

224
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,600
Speaker 1: the castle door completely open, like you just have to

225
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 1: provide the smallest opening sometimes. Oh oh, that's a really

226
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: good point. And they can worm anything. Anyone can worm

227
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 1: their way in and take residence there. That's a really

228
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,840
Speaker 1: good point. You don't have to pull the drawbridge all

229
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 1: the way up. You can just have a little bit

230
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 1: up and that's going to have this massive effect. Yeah.

231
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 1: The other leg to the tripod that is my life

232
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,120
Speaker 1: is my wife Emily and marry my best friend, and like,

233
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. I agree, it's a good thing

234
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: to do. We go at it too, and fight like

235
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: cats and dogs. It's not all wine and roses or anything,

236
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 1: but you know, we always make up. I think you've

237
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: sometimes you just gotta yell at somebody. Oh yeah, that

238
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 1: should be an Oh I want to yet somebody I

239
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 1: want to really get. You have to yell at someone.

240
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,559
Speaker 1: You have to with somebody who loves me though, that's

241
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: the important part. Somebody who loves me. And that was

242
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 1: the thing. Like I said, I didn't have the greatest modeling.

243
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,559
Speaker 1: A lot of yelling and fighting in my house. And

244
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: the difference is, like I never really saw my parents

245
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 1: make up. It's just a long fight. So we always

246
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: make a big point to like make up and let

247
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 1: her see that and tell her like, hey, listen, mommy

248
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,080
Speaker 1: and daddy fights sometimes, but we're always going to come

249
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: back together. You know. Sometimes it's the next day we

250
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 1: never subscribed to the don't go to bed mad like No,

251
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,040
Speaker 1: sometimes you can go to bed mad. Oh yeah, I'm

252
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 1: a big advocate of going to bed mad. It's sounding

253
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 1: like a really bad night's sleep, sleeping on and waking

254
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,720
Speaker 1: up feeling shitty and then going you know what, I

255
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 1: really don't want to feel like this anymore. Like I said,

256
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, we go at it like cats and dogs sometimes.

257
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 1: But you know, when I'm traveling for work, I'm gone

258
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 1: for a day and I missed them both terribly. You know,

259
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 1: I can still have some wonderful experiences alone. Sometimes when

260
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 1: we do live shows on tours and stuff, I'll have

261
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 1: some really great nights exploring in town by myself. I'll

262
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: have so much fun. But at some point, inevitably I

263
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: think I wish they were here with me. But with

264
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 1: COVID lockdown too, It's like this is when everyone's metal

265
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 1: is tested as far as who they're partnering with and

266
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: who they're rooting down with. And we we've had a

267
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: pretty good time. Yeah, I gotta say I love him

268
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: more now having been through this, my partner and all

269
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 1: of this, I really do. It's interesting how you'd think

270
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: you'd want to get away from people, and you do,

271
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: but in not being able to get away from them.

272
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 1: The other answer is to sort of go deeper and

273
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 1: to laugh more. We've laughed an enormous amount, like sometimes

274
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: slightly hysterically, but I always love What question would you

275
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: most like answered? I'm sure that people tend to go

276
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 1: towards the metaphysical, the you know, are we alone in

277
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 1: the universe type of stuff. I kind of wish I

278
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: could understand true goodness and selflessness. I said, to let

279
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: myself up too easily. I'm also very hard on myself

280
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 1: mentally as far as like, I'm so selfish and and

281
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 1: I hate it when I do selfish things. But I

282
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 1: know people that just seem like pure goodness and pure selflessness.

283
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 1: I'd very much like to understand the human brain more

284
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 1: when it comes to how much of that has learned.

285
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 1: Obsess about nature and nurture as an adopted parent, and

286
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: also am equally fascinated by true evil as well as

287
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 1: true goodness, And I think just sort of understanding the

288
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: combination of nature and nurture that make up personality and

289
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: goodness and badness. Would you like that answered, because you'd

290
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 1: like to know how to corral that in yourself more

291
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: or just because you are clearly a person who is

292
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,239
Speaker 1: interested in the world around you and knowing things and

293
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: disseminating that information to others, so that if you could

294
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 1: say what goodness was, then you could more easily understand

295
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: what evil was. I think both, boy, that's a great question.

296
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 1: Both I would use it for self improvement and also

297
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: with stuff. You should know, we've done so much on

298
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,639
Speaker 1: the human brain, and we know so much more now

299
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,880
Speaker 1: than we ever have, but it's still such a mystery

300
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: what is going on up there and that weird looking

301
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 1: clod of neurons that sits within our skull, Like, there's

302
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 1: so much mystery there. And you know, we've done episodes

303
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: on sociopathy and true crime stuff like the Worst of

304
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 1: the Worst. There's so much research now on literal like

305
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 1: brain injury early on and how that can take someone

306
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: down a bad path. And I look at that stuff

307
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 1: and it's just fascinating to me. And there is no

308
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 1: good without evil and evil without good. So I think

309
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: it's like understanding the human brain and what nature wise

310
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 1: brings us in a certain direction, and how much nurturer

311
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 1: can can say no, and how much notes you could

312
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 1: maybe heal and and change it back for sure? What

313
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: do you think about nature and nurture? God? It was

314
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 1: one of my four o'clock in the morning thoughts this

315
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: particular morning. I mean, as I lay there wondering about

316
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 1: what on earth was going to happen with everything, like

317
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: you do these days. So when I had my little

318
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: tiny baby, I was a single mom and I was

319
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,120
Speaker 1: so scared after the first couple of weeks of being

320
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 1: alone with him at night, because I was like, I

321
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 1: am an idiot. I have made so many mistakes in

322
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 1: my life. Who was entrusted this tiny being to my care?

323
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 1: And what if something happens and I don't know what

324
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 1: to do. So I called a friend of mine and

325
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: she went, oh, you've got to call my mate Stella.

326
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 1: She'll come round and she'll be a night nurse with you.

327
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 1: She'll be there with you and you can talk to her.

328
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: So began just the happiest two weeks of my life.

329
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,239
Speaker 1: Apart from having this new tiny baby. There was this

330
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 1: amazing woman from the north of England who would just

331
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 1: come and she sat on my sofa while I was

332
00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 1: feeding the baby in the midle of the night, and

333
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 1: she chat to me about children and babies and childcare

334
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 1: and everything that she knew. And I would just ask

335
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 1: her endless questions in the fog of this middle of

336
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: the night, heavy milk and two women sharing I suppose

337
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: like it was an ancient transaction. And one of the

338
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: things that I asked her was, all these babies that

339
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: you've come across, can you tell me about nature and

340
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: nurture and like these babies that you've seen and you've

341
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: spent time with, and then who they grew up to be.

342
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: And she said, I've got to tell you beyond just

343
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,400
Speaker 1: like the physical things which you you can't really get

344
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 1: away from, like colic. A baby has colic. Some babies

345
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: just get colic. It doesn't matter what the mother eats

346
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: and then feeds the baby. It just happens. But she's like,

347
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: you see that these beings they come in with a

348
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 1: certain amount that is just completely and utterly them. And

349
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: she said, and then you watch how the parenting either

350
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 1: frames that and holds it in a place that it

351
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 1: can kind of grow, or they suffocate it, or they

352
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: don't really put it on any kind of pedestal at all,

353
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: and so it kind of grows wild. And she said

354
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: she was always fascinated by that fundamental kind of nugget

355
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: of that person. I've watched with my own son because

356
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: he was my only science test with this, and I

357
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: was always aware of that. I always saw from the

358
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: very beginning who this person was. And I've thought about

359
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,400
Speaker 1: in the moments in our life together, whether I'm lifting

360
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 1: that up, whether I'm suffocating it. Am I damaging it?

361
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: Do I need to censure it? How am I framing it?

362
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: Because as his custodian, that's my job. But I think

363
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: nurture is huge, but you have to honor and respect

364
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: that nature as the nurturer. You have to have a

365
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: modicum of inquiry into what that nature is before you

366
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: can start nurturing. It's so fascinating. My daughter has a

367
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: very good heart, and that is something that you can't

368
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,719
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean maybe you can. In our experience,

369
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: we did not nurture that into her. I mean we've tried,

370
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: like you said, we've tried to reinforce that and build

371
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: it up. But she just has a good heart. She's

372
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: a sweet kid, and you see it in her relationships

373
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 1: with her little friends and how she plays. And when

374
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: you see a kid that is not like that, It

375
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 1: makes me sort of feel bad for that kid and

376
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: think like that kid's gonna struggle in life, kids who

377
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: struggle with their instinct being to like push another kid

378
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: or to help another kid up. You know, sometimes it's

379
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: as simple as that. What a gift with with that

380
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: night nurse. Wow, that's amazing. Those are the heroes that like,

381
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: when you hear about a person like that, it's it

382
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: almost feels like magic. Oh, she was amazing. She told

383
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: me so much. Was a cool moment in my life.

384
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean as a person and as a new mother.

385
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: It felt pretty ancient because you realize that women have

386
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: been doing that forever and ever and ever that has

387
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: existed in our culture. An elder woman teaching another woman

388
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: because you know most you know, girls can get pregnant,

389
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: but you're not also instilled when you get pregnant. You

390
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: don't suddenly have this giant download of what you're meant

391
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: to do with the baby you have don't have a clue.

392
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 1: They love doing that for my friends, of passing on

393
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: what was passed on to me. It's nice. This might

394
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: be my favorite question because I love food. But what

395
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: would be your last meal? Well, I'm going a cheap,

396
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: big time on this one. How are you? I am,

397
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: because I'm going to set up something that's not real,

398
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: that's magic, which is well, I'm set up a scene.

399
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: It's not just a meal. It is all my friends

400
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: and family together at a big party, big pot luck,

401
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: and all of my favorite foods are at the pot luck.

402
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 1: And the magic in the big cheat is that I

403
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: don't get full. Oh that's good, yeah, because feeling full

404
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: is the worst. There's self loathing involved. It's like I

405
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: feel full, I ate the wrong things. It's just the

406
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: worst feeling. So in this magic world, all of my

407
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: favorite foods are in this big spread, and I don't

408
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: get full. So there's fried chicken, and there's mashed potatoes.

409
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm a boy from the American South, so there's corn bread,

410
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: there's mac and cheese. But there's also Chinese food and

411
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: Korean spare ribs and tan doory chicken and garlic. Non

412
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 1: I want to come to this party and hot fudge,

413
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: Sunday's tea, lime pie and birthday cake. It's all there

414
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: and I can have as much of it as I

415
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: want and I don't feel gross afterwards. It's so funny

416
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: how something that we do every single day we eat food,

417
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: we eat food for fuel, it becomes mythic as well.

418
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: There are these mythic meals, meals that we've had with

419
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: friends when we've visited other countries places. They're the last

420
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: meal that I had with my grandmother. It's so funny

421
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: how magical food is, but also how we're scared of

422
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: it and we let ourselves be punished by it. So

423
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: many people seem to have such a difficult relationship with

424
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think loads of people do. Whether it's

425
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: they don't eat enough, or they eat too much, or

426
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: they punish themselves for wanting to eat delicious food. It's

427
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: very complicated. There's a lot two people in their relationships

428
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: with food. I think if there's no magic involved, it's

429
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: just literally, what do you want your last meal to be?

430
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: It would be a big Southern spread of fried chicken,

431
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: mashed potatoes, my grandmother's biscuits, colored greens, mac and cheese,

432
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: banana pudding, that kind of thing. Banana pudding. I love that.

433
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: Do you eat Southern food? Have you had much experience

434
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: with that? Have eat in Southern food? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

435
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: I love Southern food. I'm very suspicious. Is this an

436
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: American thing or is. I only had it in the

437
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: South at Thanksgiving, this sort of green jelly. It's like jello,

438
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: but it's called a salad. But it's not a salad.

439
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: It's green, but that's where the likeness to salad ends.

440
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: It's jello with it some sort of weird savory dressing

441
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: on it. And I've been confused by it for a

442
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: long time. And perhaps you can explain it to me.

443
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: I can't. God, is that a Southern food? I don't

444
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: think so, I know what you're talking about. Maybe there's

445
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: a Southern food. What is it called? I don't know

446
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: if I love southern food. Also, my mother always used

447
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: to say that if you deep fried your elbow, it

448
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: would taste good, true, which I also agree with. So

449
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: deep fried anything is pretty good by me now I know.

450
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: And a boy my family history of like cholesterol problems.

451
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: My family was always from the Deep South, and we

452
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: all just grew up with fried food like running through

453
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: our veins. It's cultural, though, isn't it. That's what you

454
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: grew up with. It can still be delicious as well

455
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: as you know, torturously bad on one level, you can

456
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: still enjoy it. My grandmother's the true old southern grandma,

457
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: that would the second you walk in the door. It's

458
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: just stuffing food down your throat at every turn. I

459
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: got some chicken and made a bit to pie, like

460
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: have it, have it all, eat it, eat it, eat it.

461
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: It's an expression of love. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah,

462
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: it is. It definitely is. And it's hard to untie

463
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: that knot when it is bound up with all these

464
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: beautiful things like love and generosity and nurturing. It's hard

465
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: to then go, yeah, but some of those things are

466
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: bad for me. It's it's it's complicated. Well, but then

467
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: you know so much about eating. Like you said, is

468
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: the experience that you're having with another human. It's experiential.

469
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: You've painted a few pictures that for you. Separating these

470
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: things out is not necessarily the point. It's really about

471
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: the tableau of experience. It's about the people that you're with.

472
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: Your idea of happiness is to be with your family.

473
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: In these questions that I'm asking about yourself, you're including

474
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: all these other people, which is nice. I mean, without

475
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: any training, I would definitely say you're not a sociopath.

476
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm a pisces. There's nothing more important to Pisces than

477
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: that support group. I gotta say, I'm with you. I'm

478
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: an aquarian, but I'm a dog in Chinese astrology, so

479
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: like I just want my barey rapped for people to

480
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: be loyal, I'm a dog in Chinese astrology too. Oh

481
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: you yeah, And you want to hear something cool, I'll

482
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: tell you the short version. One of my best friends, Justin,

483
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: is from London. We went to college together years ago

484
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: and remain friends. His mother, Carrie, is very much into

485
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: astrology and specifically does birth charts for people. And we

486
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: got a Zoom meeting together with Carrie and she did

487
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: the birth chart for me and Emily and and Ruby

488
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: as an adopted kid. And it was really really cool.

489
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: Like she said some things, it was just sort of

490
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 1: mind blowing that we were meant to all be together.

491
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: When she looks at our chart, it still gives me

492
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: chills to think about this one part. She has this

493
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: sort of push accent. She said, chuck. She said, you

494
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: and Ruby have known each other for a very long time,

495
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, what do you mean? And then

496
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: she started to get into some past life stuff and

497
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: she was like, I firmly believe that you guys. I

498
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: knew each other before, and I was like, you know,

499
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: I started crying and I'm you know, children's right now

500
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I bought into all that. I'm

501
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: usually not into that sort of metaphysical stuff, and I

502
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: was like, I believe it. It's really really good. I

503
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: always believe it. Yeah, everything's going to work out. You great,

504
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm in Oh this next guy, he might not be

505
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: such a good guy. I mean, I'm very glad. That's

506
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: really nice. I've never heard of actually having a chart

507
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: cast for a family. That's really beautiful. Okay, so listen.

508
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: My last question for you is in your life, can

509
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: you tell me what has grown out of a personal disaster?

510
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: I hate to go back to it again, but the

511
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: obvious thing is not being able to get pregnant. At

512
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: the time, I guess that did feel like a disaster.

513
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because this is exactly it. It's like

514
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: what you thought was the end of the world was

515
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: actually the beginning of just another world exactly. And it

516
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: came together very fast for us. Like I said, we

517
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: took our time doing all the paperwork and all the

518
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: sort of work that you have to do. But once

519
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: we finally got that all together, and submitted. I think

520
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: it was ten days later we got the call like

521
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: we think we have a match. Good God. That is fast.

522
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: Holy cow. It came together very fast. And one of

523
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: the things that they talk about when you adopt is

524
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: the three losses. There's a loss for you as parents

525
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: to not have a biological child. There's the loss of

526
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the birth parents and especially the birth mom, and then

527
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: there's the loss that your kid's gonna have to do

528
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: it with eventually. So they really talk to you about

529
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: like those losses are there, like you can't make them

530
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: go away, you can't pretend they didn't happen. So you've

531
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: got to face those things head on, and to introduce

532
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: the idea of adoption as they're growing up. It's hard.

533
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: It was very hard for us to sort of first

534
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: say those words like, hey, there's this thing. Uh, you're adopted,

535
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: and that's this is what that means. And you're three

536
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: and you have no idea what this means yet, but

537
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: we're just going to plant that little seed and uh

538
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: talk about it more and more as you get older.

539
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: And those losses seem like a disaster at the time,

540
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: very much a personal disaster that I can't even talk

541
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: about it that much without like wanting to break down. No,

542
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I think it's so important to examine these

543
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: things that we call the end of the world without

544
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: saying that they want because most often they are, but

545
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: to really be able to look at and see the

546
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: other things that grew out of that, and how in

547
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: our to make everything happy all the time, we sometimes

548
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: forget that it's really good to experience those harder moments

549
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: because they're vital. I mean, I have almost a clinical

550
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: aversion to bad things like that's how much I want

551
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: things to always be great and okay, and to be

552
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: liked and loved by everybody and to please everyone. But

553
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: sometimes it's good to wallow in the misery just for

554
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: a bit. I'm thinking about like heartbreaks growing up, and

555
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't want to feel better right away. Sometimes

556
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: you want to put on the Smith's and just sit

557
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: in the dark for three days. I think it's very important.

558
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: I think it's very very important to do exactly that.

559
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: I think we live in a culture, in a society

560
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: and the worst where we do everything to nullify pain

561
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: when an actual fact, it is Yeah, it is hard

562
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: and it is awful, but it is also the most

563
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: extraordinary teacher and the most fertile ground for growth. So well,

564
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say. I'm an advocate for pain and very

565
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: interested and respectful of it, and I try to teach

566
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: my kid to not be scared of it. It is

567
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: part of life. And even though all I want to

568
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: do is cover him in cotton wall and make sure

569
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: that he experiences nothing bad, ever, I actually know the

570
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: better thing is to teach them how to handle the

571
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: pay because it's unavoidable. Yeah. My wife is always really

572
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: good about telling me and reminding me to reinforce with

573
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: our daughter, like feel your feelings. That you've got to

574
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: feel the full range of those emotions, whereas I would

575
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: much more be prone to try and like it's okay,

576
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: you don't like, you don't need to cry, that's all right,

577
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: because look this is this is actually great. You don't

578
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: need to cry. No, let him feel it. Yeah, and

579
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, Pollyanna doesn't get you anywhere. I would always

580
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: rather know where I stand Pollyanna. You know what, I'd

581
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: like to tie her braids to the radiator. It's really

582
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: really that she really did a lot of disservice to

583
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Yeah, no kidding, Oh, my god, Chuck,

584
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a huge pleasure talking to you.

585
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: I think we figured it all out. I think we

586
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: kind of did. Like stuff you should know is that

587
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: someone needs to figure out how to not be full

588
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: when you eat, and you need to figure out how

589
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: to nurture the good in your child whilst also encouraging

590
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: them to explore what's bad, but creating a safety net

591
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: of love and security. And if you're too easy on yourself,

592
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: maybe be a little bit harder. And if you're too

593
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: hard on yourself, be a little easy right balance homeostasis,

594
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: due man. I knew talking to you would figure some

595
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: ship out. I'm so stoked. There's a lot of fun.

596
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you. Everyone knows

597
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: Chuck from stuff you should know, But I want you

598
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: to check out his other podcast, movie Crush, which I

599
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: was on recently discussing one of my favorite movies of

600
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: all time. Totsie Mini Questions is hosted and written by

601
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: me Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy,

602
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Minni Driver,

603
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive produced by me and

604
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: man gesh Hetty Cador Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson,

605
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: Addison No Day, Lisa Castella and Unique Oppenheim at w

606
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: kPr de La Pescadore, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, And

607
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: for constantly solicited tech support Henry Driver