1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's even here too. So this 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: is a real deal wing getting ding stuff you should 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: know episode by goodness, By goodness, yeah, I'm trying to 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: toss a bone to the churchy types that listened to us. 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Sure not take the Lord's name in vain for no 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: good reason, by god, Wait a minute, sorry, I just 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: messed it up. You undermined everything, and we have no 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: way of getting rid of that, now, that's right, no 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: edit function whatsoever. So uh, this was your pick the 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: Black Codes, which I had heard the term before, but 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: I did not know anything about. And as I was 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: researching it, good pick, by the way, I think this 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: is something that everybody should know about. UM. But as 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: I was researching it, my my brain kept trying to 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: like flesh it out further, flesh it out further, and 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: like expand it. Um. And the Black Couds definitely touched 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: a ton of other stuff. And you can make a 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: lot of cases that they're still UM followed in some 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: ways or at least mentally in America. UM. But they 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: existed historically in such a narrow period of time that 23 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: they basically came and went in about a year, which 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: makes it astounding the impact that they had. You know. Yeah, 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: and this is uh our buddy Dave Ruse and how 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: stuff works. And uh, I got a lot of good 27 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: information from the Constitutional Rights Foundation. Yeah, that's a robust website. Yeah, 28 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: the Mississippi Encyclopedia. I can't forget that it's made out 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: of bark, That's right. But you're talking about the Black Codes, 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, in short, I guess as a 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: precursor definition, these were a series of laws that, like 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: you said, weren't I mean, they kind of almost didn't 33 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: even fully make it onto the books in some ways 34 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: before they were taken off the books. But they were 35 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: laws that Southern white people, notably and especially you know, 36 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: plantation owners and and people that uh owned enslaved people 37 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: came around and said, hey, you know what uh civil 38 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: wars over and I know this emancipation proclamation has been 39 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: around for a little bit where it hasn't quite gotten 40 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: around everyone down here about that, and maybe we should 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: just devise a series of laws that essentially re enslave 42 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: these people. Uh. And you know, the only difference really 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: will be that there will be some kind of wage involved. Yeah, yeah, 44 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: that was it. They were trying to figure out how 45 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: to read gain there agricultural society which had been built 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: exclusively on the backs almost exclusively on the backs of 47 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: enslaved people, free labor that you just had to pay 48 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: to buy a person and then feed them and clothe 49 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: them and house them. But like the labor was free, 50 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: they had to figure out how to do that in 51 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: the context of it being illegal to own people. Now, Yeah, 52 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: they would to keep the status quo exactly, and that 53 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: you know that it worth It's worth pointing out that 54 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: the Northern corporations were fully on board with this plan 55 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: because they didn't want any disruption to their supply chain 56 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, certainly cotton or anything that was 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: built on the back of the labor of enslaved people 58 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: that was being sent up north for manufacturing and stuff 59 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: like that. So they didn't want any work disruptions either. Um, 60 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: the Northern citizens it was a bit of a different 61 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: story in many cases, and we'll get into all that, 62 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: but maybe we should start with the end of the 63 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: Civil War. Okay, let's April eighteen sixty five. Uh, Civil 64 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: War ends. Like we said before, the Emancipation Proclamation had 65 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: been on the books for a couple of years. But um, 66 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: certainly white southern plantation owners were not doing their best 67 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: to get the word out that everything was different now 68 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: and that these people were now freed. Um. They they 69 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: wanted to keep that as you know, quiet as possible, 70 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: which was pretty easy to do back then. Yeah, because 71 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: it was, Um there were things called slave codes, and 72 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: one of the big slave codes is that it was 73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: illegal to teach a slave to read or write. So yeah, 74 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: it was pretty easy to keep information out of the 75 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: grape vine. Um, if you had a general population that 76 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: that couldn't pick up a newspaper and read it, you know, 77 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh So Lincoln and I'd never realized Lincoln 78 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: was shot so soon after the war ended. It's really 79 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: never I don't think it. It hit me that it 80 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: was just five days later. It makes you wonder what 81 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: could have happened. But yeah, it was really surprising that 82 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: it happened that quick too. Yeah, So five days later, 83 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: Lincoln has gone Vice President Andrew Johnson takes over and 84 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: he is tasked with leading the reunification of uh, these 85 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: United States he was a Southerner, very important, and one 86 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: of the first things he did was say, you know what, 87 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: why don't I just appoint a bunch of military governors 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: for now and uh to these Confederate states so we 89 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: can get everything kind of organized and get everything set up. 90 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: And so one thing about Johnson was that he and 91 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: actually Lincoln before him, favored kind of a forgiving plan 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: for re entry of southern states that had succeeded back 93 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: into the Union. And there was like a real kind 94 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: of a light touch. I think one of the big 95 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: factors was a ten percent plane where only ten percent 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: of the population had to swear an oath of allegiance 97 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: to the Union again um. And that that was a 98 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: that that put it out. The Johnson plan at odds 99 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: with with Congress, right, Um, George. But one of the 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: things that Johnson did take up was this idea of 101 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: a Freedman's Bureau, which is basically this idea, Okay, the 102 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: South is ruined, we wrecked it, but it was already 103 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: really backwards to begin with, and we want to modernize it. 104 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: One of the things we have to do to modernize 105 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: it is to take this group of new citizens that 106 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: were it lived before, but they weren't considered citizens, and 107 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: now we have to figure out a way to, um 108 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 1: to get them integrated into the society of the South, 109 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: and we're gonna set up the Freedman's Bureau to do that. Yeah, 110 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: we're talking like including women and children, like four million people. Yeah, 111 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: so this is a lot of a lot of people 112 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: to uh, I mean, I guess attempt to reintegrate into society. 113 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: And the Freedman's Bureau did a few things. Um. They 114 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, they worked on wages to try and make 115 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: sure that wages were fair. Uh. They tried to make 116 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: sure that um, these men generally men could go find 117 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: jobs if they wanted to and like choose who they 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: wanted to work for. Uh. They had courts that they 119 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: set up if you had a dispute with a wide employer, supposedly, 120 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: these courts would be there to uh to at least 121 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: hear your case. And while this is going on, the 122 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: white Southerners were not so happy. They didn't like the 123 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: Freedman's Bureau. They didn't like these new rules. They didn't 124 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: like these military governors from the Union that were set up, 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: even if temporary and they're temporarily and they were like, 126 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta get this back under our control 127 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: like quickly. Yeah, because the Freedman's Bureau was operated by 128 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: the UM the military itself, so there was like no 129 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: questioning this. It was an occupying force in the South 130 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: basically saying this is how it's going to be, and 131 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: we're here to make sure that that's how it goes down. 132 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Um and yeah, and the white Southerners were not happy 133 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: about that at all. But part of Johnson's plan, remember 134 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: I said it had kind of a light touch, and 135 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: it was based on a lot more forgiveness than punishment, UM, 136 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: was that once you hit that ten percent mark where 137 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: your population has taken an oath to the Union again, 138 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: you could um ratify a new state constitution basically start over. 139 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: And by the way, we're just gonna let white people 140 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: be involved in these new states. That's what Johnson's take was, 141 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: that that's how it should be. And so that's kind 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: of how he decreed, and that was kind of the 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: beginning of reconstructions called the Presidential Reconstruction, and so some 144 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: of the Southern states are all the Southern states said 145 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: about in eighteen sixty five creating new state constitutions yeah, 146 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: and they you know, they were starting to get it 147 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: together again, so they could kind of take back the 148 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: reins of control themselves. Uh. There was a provisional governor 149 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: in South Carolina that literally said this is a white 150 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: man's government. And they held elections by the end of 151 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: that year, um, all over the South. And as you 152 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: would expect a lot of times, he's a Confederate leaders, 153 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: former Confederate Confederate leaders one positions of power, if not governorship, um, 154 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: you know, congress people. And we'll talk about that a 155 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: little bit more later. But they organized these state legislatures 156 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: and uh, one of the things they did was said, 157 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: all right, you know what, we need to really pull 158 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: the South out of despairs to set up free schools, um, 159 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: but for white people only. We're not gonna have black 160 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: children in our schools, but we're gonna have free public 161 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: education for everyone else. Yeah. So that was just right 162 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: off the bat. The first time public education was introduced 163 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: in the South, it was segregated, which set the stage 164 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: for segregation throughout a lot of the twentieth century. The 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: rest of the nineteenth century and there in a lot 166 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, right, and you'll start to notice, 167 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: like a lot of the stuff that the South dealt 168 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: with and tried to saddle on its black citizenry finds 169 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: it's its origins in the black codes that were were 170 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: written in these state Southern or Southern State Conventions of 171 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five. They just popped up everywhere. This is 172 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: where it all began. Yeah, I mean, it's really pretty despicable, 173 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: Like the idea that these people were finally freed by 174 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: law and they said, well, here, you know, let's just 175 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: make a bunch of laws then, like remember the good 176 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: old colonial times when uh we had all these laws. Uh, 177 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: let's just do that again, so we can remain in power, 178 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: we can keep our status quo going. And sure, we 179 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: might have to pay some wages. Now I tried to 180 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: look and find what wages might have been. I'm sure 181 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: it was, you know, a pittance, but that was kind 182 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: of the only thing they would acquiesce to. Otherwise they 183 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: wanted it to look and feel and smell exactly like 184 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: uh it did during the enslaved period. Yeah, and they 185 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: had to acquiesced to that because part of um, part 186 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 1: of the requirements for returning to the Union as the 187 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: state was to have abolition of slave and support abolition 188 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: of slavery. And then also it was it was a 189 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: there was a constitutional law now with the Thirteenth amend 190 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: and said there's no more slavery in the United States. 191 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where you are, you can't enslave anybody. 192 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: So they had to do that. But it's like you said, 193 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: they figured out every mental gymnastic they could make to 194 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: recreate the slave economy in this new context of people 195 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: being free and you're not being allowed to have slaves anymore. Right, 196 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: I think that's a good setup. Okay, it feels like 197 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: a break time, I think so. Yeah, yeah, it does 198 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of feel that way. Do you feel that way? 199 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: I feel it. I definitely feel it. Wait, I'm not 200 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: feeling so much like a break now. All right, Well, 201 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: let's keep going them. No, no no, no, okay, I'm feeling 202 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: like came back. Okay, it came back. All right, We're 203 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break. I wonder if we did 204 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: that for like ten minutes, like a Family Guy episode, 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: if people would just turn it off. Yeah, I'm sure 206 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: a lot of them have already. Anyway, all right, we'll 207 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: be right back. Okay. So Christmas is approaching at the 208 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: end of I guess what is that? And there were 209 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: a couple of rumors floating around these different communities. One 210 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: was in the black community. They were like, hey, I 211 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: hear for Christmas, we're gonna get forty acres in a 212 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: mule for every family on Christmas Day. And so let's 213 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: not sign any work contracts or anything. Let's see what 214 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: kind of happens here. We may be able to have 215 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: our own farms and to work for ourselves and to 216 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: be enterprising, uh families on our own. And the other 217 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: rumor that was going around was in the white community 218 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: in the South, which was, hey, they all think that 219 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: they're going to get forty acres in the mule. This 220 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: is not gonna happen. They may be giving out a 221 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: little bit of land here and there, but this is 222 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: definitely not happening. And when this goes down in Christmas Day, 223 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a huge rebellion and it's going to 224 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: be a big problem for us. And I was looking 225 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: into that forty acres in a mule thing. Apparently it 226 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: all came out of um William two Comps sherman Field 227 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: Order number fifteen, where he basically said everything from Jacksonville 228 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: to Charleston. Thirty miles inland is going to be set 229 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: aside for newly freed slaves to basically own and live 230 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: and work. And it was just meant to be this 231 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: little area. It never was fulfilled. But somehow that got 232 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: turned into among the black community in the South forty 233 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: acres in a mule, which I had never heard before. Like, 234 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: I just thought the government had always promised everybody forty 235 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: acres in a mule. Yeah. I wasn't sure about the 236 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: origins of that, and I knew that they were going 237 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: to reappropriate some land, but um, yeah, I never knew 238 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: that it was not an earnest sort of offer. Well. 239 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: They also it was based on the idea that the 240 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: North had confiscated tons of land from the Confederacy, and 241 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: so they did think that they were going to redistribute 242 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: it to newly freed black Americans. But apparently part of 243 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: the Johnson plan was to give that land back to 244 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: the original owners, and so that's how it got scuttled. 245 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: That's right. So all this stuff is going on, there's 246 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people scared on both sides. There's a 247 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: lot of fear, uh, And this is kind of the 248 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: background that's set up these Black codes UM mainly in 249 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: Mississippi and South Carolina. So I saw there were there 250 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: were black codes in other states. I know Texas had one, 251 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I believe North Carolina had one. I think a lot 252 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: of the Southern states. If they didn't actually enact them, 253 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: then they were they had they had written them or 254 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: drafted them, or trying to at least. But I think 255 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: South Carolina and Mississippi's were maybe the most tanous of 256 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: all of them. Yeah, I mean sure, that was my thing. 257 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: Mississippi's was supposed to be even worked in South Carolina. Yeah, 258 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: that was what I saw as well. Mississippi seems to 259 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: be to have been the worst of the worst. But 260 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: these codes fell into a um sort of a group 261 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: of four or five different ways that they could restrict 262 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: someone's rights through law, uh with with technically skirting the 263 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: abolition amendments. And basically what they did is they figured 264 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: out that if you wanted black people to work, because 265 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: there was this idea that among Southerners, among white Southerners, 266 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: I should say, that black people wouldn't work on their own. 267 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: They had to be forced in to work through like slavery, 268 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: or they had to be forced into work by some 269 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: other new law, but if left to their own devices, 270 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: they just wouldn't work and the economy would fall. So 271 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: that was the idea at least. I don't know if 272 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: that was a pretext for just some deeply racist off 273 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: or that was deeply racist, But if it was really 274 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: just that was the kind of idea that was supporting 275 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: like the moneyed class, and that idea trickled down into 276 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: white society in the South. I'm not sure, but that 277 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: was kind of like the premise that they were going 278 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: on when they were writing these plaque codes, trying to 279 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: figure out how to force black people into work agreements 280 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: that benefited the white people they were working for. Yeah, 281 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: and it's even a little more despicable than you might 282 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: think because they they also dressed it up with a 283 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: few basic rights that you know, you see, you read stories, 284 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: and you don't know how widespread it was. But even 285 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: some of these basic rights I think many times weren't 286 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: um enacted. Uh, they may have been on the books 287 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: or at least offered on the books, but in order 288 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: to um be a person of color back then, and 289 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: to say like, hey, wait a minute, it says here 290 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: that I can sue somebody, and I can acquire my 291 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: own property and I can you know, enjoy the fruits 292 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: of my own labor um. They have to be able to, 293 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: you know, hire out an attorney and get it in 294 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: front of a judge, and all these things were, you know, 295 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: next to impossible basically, So even if they did dress 296 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: it up a little bit with some basic rights, it 297 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: was it was these weren't rights that were being enshrined, 298 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: you know, right, or even if they were, it's like, 299 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: oh wow, thanks a lot for the most some of 300 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: the most basic human rights that should be afforded to anybody, 301 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: like recognizing our marriages as legitimate. Apparently, in the Annabellum South, 302 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: black people were viewed as so subhuman that there they 303 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: couldn't possibly marry one another in any kind of context 304 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: that white people saw marriage and their children were all 305 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: by definition than illegitimate. Well, in the super progressive post 306 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Civil War South, now their marriages were recognized as legal 307 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: and their children were recognized as legitimate. How far have 308 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: we come? Basically, the white Southerners were saying to themselves, 309 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: as long as you married another black person, by the way, 310 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: that was the other thing too, you said, you can 311 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: sue um, you you all all that kind of stuff. 312 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: You could sue another black person, You still could not 313 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: sue a white person. You couldn't, um have anything to 314 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: do with the arrest of white person. The best you 315 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: could hope for is to go down to a judge 316 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: and fill out a complaint against a white person. Conversely, chuck, 317 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: at least I believe in it might have been South 318 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: Carolina or Mississippi. You, Um, if you were a white person, 319 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: you could you could arrest any black person you wanted 320 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: for even a misdemeanor, like any white person could arrest 321 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: any black person. But a black person could only fill 322 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: out a complaint against a white person in front of 323 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: a judge right where it went into the circular file. Yeah. 324 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: And you probably were risking your health, well being, and 325 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: possibly life by filing a complaint or filling out a 326 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: complaint against a white person as a black person in 327 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: the in the post Civil War South, you know, yeah, 328 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: absolutely another and you know, we'll talk about other civil 329 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: rights that were violated along the way, or at least limited. Um. 330 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: But another big way these black codes uh helped restrict 331 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, their freedoms ultimately was through something through these 332 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: labor contracts. Uh. They basically said in South Carolina that 333 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: if you want to work, then you will work as 334 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: a servant. Um, we're not going to call you a 335 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: slave anymore. You'll be a servant. Uh. And we're still 336 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: gonna be called masters. And you have to sign this 337 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: contract and uh, we will pay you a wage. It 338 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: will all be in writing, has to be approved, but 339 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: in witnessed by a judge. But here's the deal. You 340 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: have to live in our property. You have to stay quiet, 341 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: you can't get in the way. You have to work 342 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: from sunrise to sunset except on Sunday. You can't leave, 343 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: you can't go anywhere, you can't have visitors. And basically 344 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: everyone looked around and said, well, what's the difference this 345 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: small wage that we're being paid, and they said yes. 346 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: Basically they're like, yeah, that's everything. That's the whole thing 347 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: right there. And I also saw chuck in one place 348 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: that the wages that were paid to these dow black 349 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: servants who were formerly slaves were basically what the white 350 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: plantation owners have been spending to feed and clothe and 351 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: house their slaves. So for them, there was basically no 352 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: no change in net gain or net output. It was 353 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: just now they were directing that toward them, the black 354 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: workers as wages instead. That's it. That was the only difference. 355 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: And then wonder if they charged them rent. I don't know. 356 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: I saw that in some cases they did have to 357 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: house people who stayed on their land, but I think 358 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: that they did, and they were allowed to charge them rent. 359 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: They were also allowed to deduct from their wages for 360 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: like time, um like all like, yes, there were I 361 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: get the impression that there was a lot of ways 362 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: that you could take back a lot of those wages 363 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: that you paid somebody. One of the other ways that 364 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: you could take back that money is through your local 365 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: town store, which would um, which set up a system 366 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: of what's called debt peonage, which is kind of like 367 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, the whole company store set up that miners 368 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: in the North got into and like the early nineteen hundreds, 369 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: you your little fifteen tons of cold, but you can't 370 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: go to heaven because you know, your soul of the 371 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: company store. Kind of thing that found its root in 372 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 1: the South in around eighteen sixty five, where if you 373 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: were in this labor contract, you could go to local 374 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: store and offer half of your crops as like UM 375 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: capital and then start borrowing. And so all of a sudden, 376 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: people who had been enslave before and could have nothing 377 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: now had free credit at the local store. And when 378 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: the when the credit was called in at the end 379 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: of the season, when they harvested their crops, they frequently 380 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: found not only were all their crops taken, but like 381 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: all the stuff they had bought was being called back 382 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: in and was taken to to cover their debts, like 383 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: because of huge crazy interest rates involved. So they were 384 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: trapped in this cycle where once they entered and they 385 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: had to chuck you said it yourself. They had to 386 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: engage in these labor contracts. Once they entered them, they 387 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: did not get back out, and all of the advantage 388 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: was towards the white the white plantation owners and the 389 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: white store owners. They're also allowed to whip anyone under eighteen, 390 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: any servants under eighteen, and if it was someone over eighteen, 391 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: you could get a judge's permission basically to whip somebody. 392 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: Um if they you know, if it got just so 393 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: bad that they said, you know, I can't even I 394 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: can't do this, I'm quitting this job, I'm breaking this contract. 395 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: Then they were basically like all right, well, you're not 396 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: gonna get paid anything. Then they could uh take back 397 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: their wages and they were essentially forfeited, and they could 398 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: be arrested, and the judge could say, no, you're going 399 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: rap back to where you came from because, uh, you 400 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: broke a contract, and it's it's just risk end as 401 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, an enslaved person escaping and being returned to 402 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: their master. Right, So you would say, okay, well how 403 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: about you just don't work? Like there's your answer right there. 404 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: They could just say I'm not gonna work. Maybe I'll 405 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: just hang around and try, uh try my luck. Just 406 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: hanging out like it would make a lot more sense 407 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: than ending up in debt and having to work for 408 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, my former plantation owner. And that they had 409 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: that figured out too as part of the black Coats chuck. 410 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: If you were uh caught without a labor contract, you 411 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: could be arrested unemployed from did not have a job. 412 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So they, yes, they figured out how 413 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: to force black people into work by saying it's illegal 414 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: for you to not have a job. And the big 415 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: horrible irony of the whole thing is if you were 416 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: arrested for what they called vagrancy. You would go to jail. 417 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: They would say, you owe us this huge exorbitant debt. 418 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: Is there any white plantation owner who would like to 419 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: come pay this debt? A plantation order would come along, 420 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: pay the debt and say you now belong to me 421 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: because your debt was just transferred to me, and I'm 422 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: going to put you to work until you pay off 423 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: this high exorbitant debt. And you're going to be stuck 424 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: in that same cycle as you would have been if 425 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: you just engaged in the labor contract to begin with 426 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: and not been arrested for vagrancy. Right, or they could say, well, actually, 427 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: your honor, I I learned quite a bit about carpentry 428 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: or or smith ing. I'm a great smithy. Didn't we 429 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: learn that what they were not called smithy z they 430 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: have to be though forever it's just too great a word, 431 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: you know. Like I'm a cobbler, Like I really have 432 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of talent, so I'd like to open up 433 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: my own shop. And I think I can do this. 434 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: I have a lot of driving initiative. And the judge 435 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: would say no, no no, no, I'm sorry, I don't think 436 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: you understand you have to work if you want to work, 437 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: you have to sign a work contract and work for 438 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: a white person. You can't open up your own business, 439 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: and or you're a vagrant. And then they would say, well, 440 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 1: what about those white guys over there, they don't have jobs, 441 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: And they said, well, but they're allowed to sign oaths 442 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: of poverty to get out of jail, so well, can 443 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: we do that? No, you can't do that. So it's 444 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: essentially just two separate systems set up from the beginning 445 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: with these black codes, two separate groups of laws depending 446 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: on your skin color and chuck. One of the other 447 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: UM owners parts about this is they're like, oh, if 448 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: you're a minor, you don't escape this either. Like there's 449 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: something now called apprenticeships, which is basically like vagrancy laws 450 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: for kids and um you can be put to work 451 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: as an apprentice and you don't even have to be paid. 452 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: If you're under eighteen for a woman or under twenty 453 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: one for a man, you can be apprenticed out to somebody. 454 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: An apprentice can be like, you're still a field worker. 455 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you're actually learning a trade, although some 456 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: places did specify they did have to have to be 457 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: taught a trade and fed and clothed, and for all 458 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: intents and purposes, you were an enslaved person just as 459 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: much as you were before because you weren't being paid 460 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: for the labor you were now being forced to do well. 461 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: And they could I think they could even take the 462 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: kids and just say, I'm sorry you your parents are negligent, 463 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: and so we're gonna take you in and a print 464 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: it and put you in our apprenticeship. I don't know. 465 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: I think they probably even call it a program that 466 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: gives it a little too much value. But they said, 467 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: you know, sorry, your parents are negligent. We can take you. Uh, 468 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: you have to work for me if you're a young 469 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: man until you're twenty one, or if you're a young 470 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: woman until you're eighteen. And um, that's the you know 471 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: it's there's a man called what was this? I know 472 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: his last name was Blackman. He wrote a book called 473 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: Slavery by another name that had a lot to do 474 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: with this, And there was one story in here about 475 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: a gentleman named green Cottenham. This is a nineteen o eight, 476 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: mind you, this is way way way later. He was 477 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: arrested for vagrancy in Alabama in nineteen o eight, auctioned 478 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: off to us deal where they chained him to Uh, 479 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: they chained him up, put him in a coal mine 480 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: in Birmingham and said, all right, this is your new life. Uh, 481 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: you have to do this until you're fine. Is repaid. 482 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: Um if he you know, if he collapsed, he was whipped. 483 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: If he died, he would be buried in a pauper's 484 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: grave with everyone else. And I think out of the 485 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: thousand black men who are working for U. S. Steel 486 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: in less than one year, sixty of them died from homicide, 487 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: accidents or disease. So this was a yeah, the North's 488 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: hands aren't clean about this, and and that was something 489 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: that like you know, the North frequently gets gets a 490 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: pass on on that um, especially among just kind of 491 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: like the white view of history that it was all 492 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: the South's fault that reconstruction failed, um, that the South 493 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: was um unwilling to kind of progress forward and accept 494 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: black people into society. That was definitely true, but they 495 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: were aided in some ways by the North, and the 496 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: North definitely was engaged in some of these unsavory practices 497 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: as well. I think that's definitely worth pointing out. So 498 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about different laws depending on 499 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: your skin color. Uh. This wasn't just like a subjective opinion, 500 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: like they literally did this with their courts. Uh. They 501 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: did have um certain new technically certain new freedoms for court. 502 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: Like we talked about suing someone but could only be 503 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: another person of color. Uh, you could be a plantiff 504 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: for a defendant, but only in cases. Uh. Well, I 505 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: guess a plaintiff only in cases where there was another 506 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: person of color involved. And the penalties were way different. 507 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the times you get the 508 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: death penalty if you were black, you would for the 509 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: literally the same crime, you would not get that penalty 510 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: if you were white. And even minor offenses, like the 511 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: smallest things you could imagine that you would be brought 512 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: in for Um, you would to be hired out and worked, 513 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: uh you know, twelve fourteen hours a day, or you 514 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: were whipped right. And so the idea was that they 515 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: were making it basically illegal to be black, um. And 516 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: they made it illegal to be unemployed. And they set 517 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: up a system so that everybody, all black people, newly 518 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: freed black people in the South were funneled into this 519 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: economic system that favored white people and tried to recreate 520 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: slavery as best as possible, right, And one of the 521 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: ways that they got away with this, one of the 522 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: ways around this that was um that really kind of 523 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: brought jail into the forefront of this initiative to recreate 524 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: the slave economy in the South, was actually found and 525 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: is still found in the thirteenth Amendment of the Constitution. 526 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: That the amendment that abolished slavery. It said, you can't 527 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: enslave anybody anywhere in the United States, except unless as 528 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: a punishment for a crime, whereof the party shall have 529 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: been duly convicted. There is a loophole in the Amendment 530 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: to the Constitution that abolishes slavery and says that if 531 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: you've been convicted of a crime, you can be used 532 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: as a slave as punishment for that crime. And that 533 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: really got the attention of the Southern legislatures after the 534 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: Civil War, and they said, okay, all right, well, then 535 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: how about we just start arresting black people on mass 536 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: And that's what drove that whole illegalization of being black 537 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: in the South. Uh, that was written into the Black cones. Yeah, 538 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: it was, you know, that's why they did the vagrancy laws, 539 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: that's why they did the apprenticeship laws. It all was 540 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: just sitting there in front of their face with this 541 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: massive loophole, and it was still allowed to happen, um 542 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: well to a to a certain degree, which we'll get 543 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: to in a sec. Well, there's one good example. Let's 544 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: give him the example of the pig laws real quick. Yeah, 545 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: pig laws were uh, certainly in other places, but definitely 546 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: in Mississippi. I found where they they basically tried to 547 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: make any crime that it might be more likely that 548 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: a black person might commit way way more prosecutable, um 549 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: like grand larceny went from twenty five dollars to like 550 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: ten dollars. And the big one, which is why they 551 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: call them pig laws, was any farm animal that was stolen. 552 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: And these could you know a farm animal could have 553 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: a value of like a dollar or less. Uh, They said, 554 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: that is also grand larceny because they knew that, uh, 555 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, formally, en slave person might be more likely 556 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: to steal the chicken for dinner so they could eat 557 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: and survive, and make that a literal grand larceny offense. 558 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: Right like grand larceny published punishable by five years in jail, 559 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: during which time you could be leased out by the 560 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: state to work for peanuts on a plantation. Um for 561 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: a white business owner. That was the setup. The sad 562 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: thing is is a lot of people today, a lot 563 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: of social and his storical critics say, yeah, it's still 564 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: going on. That loophole is still there, and there's still 565 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: a lot of slave labor being used. And even if 566 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: you're not being if you're not not being paid for 567 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: that labor, you're being paid so little, um that you 568 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: might as well be a slave. I think there was 569 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: the most recent sentences. It was in two thousand five, 570 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: the most recent prison labor sensors. They found one point 571 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: five million prisoners were working, six thousand of which we're 572 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: working in the manufacturing center. Most of them were making 573 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: two dollars or less a day if they were being 574 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: paid at all. Geez and Chuck, um, I know, you know, 575 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: there's awesome documentary on Netflix about the thirteenth Amendment and 576 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: the implications it has. Just it's called and it is 577 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: a It's one of those documentaries it's like life changing 578 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: after you watch it. It's I encourage everybody to go 579 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: watch that documentary. It's just that good. Right. Should we 580 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: take a break, Yes, all right, we'll be right back. 581 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: So Chuck after the Civil War rands the Union says, Okay, 582 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: Southern States, come back, come back, go right, your your 583 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: your new state constitutions, show them to us, and let's 584 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: see what you got. And the Southern states went off 585 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty five and held their all white conventions 586 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: and wrote their new all white laws. Actually they're all 587 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: black laws, I should say. And they came back to 588 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: the Congress of the United States and said, okay, first, 589 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: let us just explain before you make any judgments. And 590 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: and uh, the Congress was not at all amused by this. 591 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: It was not very surprising. But there was a huge 592 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: um swath of Congress called the Radical Republicans, who were 593 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: they wanted the South punished. They were deeply offended that 594 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: the South had taken up arms against the nation. Um. 595 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: They hated slavery, they thought it was disgusting. They thought 596 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: the South was backwards and it needed to be modernized. 597 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,479 Speaker 1: And they were not in any kind of particular mood 598 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: for allowing concessions for racist slave owners trying to recreate 599 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: the slave economy. And it it brought Congress crashing down 600 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: upon the South in the form of reconstruction. Yeah, I mean, 601 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: they basically said you know what, We're not gonna seat 602 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: anyone you elect to Congress. Uh, we are not going 603 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: to we're gonna invalidate any of these laws that you're 604 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: putting on the books. And some of the Southern states 605 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: said uh to themselves, like, oh, like, I think I 606 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: see the writing on the wall. This is really bad. 607 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: And if we want to have any kind of agency 608 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: of self rule, we might need to walk back some 609 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: of these black codes a little bit because it's clear 610 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: that they're not um, they're not hip to what we're 611 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: trying to do here at all. Right, they saw through it. 612 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how, but they saw through our motives 613 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: and so we're just trying to recreate slavery. So even 614 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: though they had Johnson in office, they were like, we 615 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: have one of our own as president. Um, he was 616 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: vetoed by Congress, and it was essentially kind of a 617 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: hostile Congress towards Johnson and the South. Yeah, Johnson was 618 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: the first president to be impeached, and he was saved 619 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: from conviction in the Senate by just one vote. And 620 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't over him being a racist, but he definitely 621 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: was a racist. He even said he vetoed the civil 622 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: rights Act of eighteen sixty six, which basically said black 623 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: people are citizens now, and this is what they deserve, 624 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: just like any other citizen. And Johnson said, well, whoa, whoa, 625 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: We've never done anything even remotely like this for white citizens, 626 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: why should we do it for black citizens? And like 627 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: his veto even was syst um, and he and basically 628 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: everybody who wasn't on board with the Radical Republicans viewpoint 629 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: missed the idea that the newly freed, formerly enslaved black 630 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: citizens that were now citizens of the United States needed 631 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: a leg up to get on some sort of equal 632 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: footing with white people to be integrated in society. That 633 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: it would be a good idea for everybody to be 634 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: on fairly equal footing so that society could move forward faster. 635 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: And to do that the people who in the economy, yes, exactly, 636 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: and to do that, the people who used to be 637 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,959 Speaker 1: slaves needed a little bit of a leg up because 638 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: they've been kind of held back for four hundred years 639 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: at that point, or a couple hundred years at that point. Um. 640 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: So that was kind of the premise that the Radical 641 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: Republicans were basing all this on, and all of the 642 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: Conservatives were saying no, this is this is too much, 643 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: it's too fast, it's too radical, Um, this is this 644 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: is a problem now, And the the Southern States started 645 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: to kind of get the sympathy of some Northern conservatives. Yeah, 646 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean they it's not like they were talked into 647 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: racist attitudes, but they were kind of talked into like, Hey, 648 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: you know what's gonna happen if these freedmen start holding 649 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: office and they start getting in positions of power, is 650 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, they're people don't want to work, so they're 651 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna get laws passed that basically see to the fact 652 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: that they don't have to work and they can just 653 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: live off of us, and we don't want them to 654 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: get in Like I think in eighteen sixty seven, a 655 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: couple of years after the initial proposition proposition of these 656 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: black codes is the first time that these uh freedmen 657 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: actually participated and voted in elections. And these white Southerners 658 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: essentially kind of put the fear of God into these Northerners, saying, 659 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: you see what's coming, right, and they kind of fell 660 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: for it. They did fall for it. There's a really 661 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: excellent article that I would dig everybody go read on 662 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: Jacobin Um uh dot com. It's called Killing Reconstruction by 663 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: Heather Cox Richardson, and she basically lays out how the 664 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: South said, Okay, all of our racist views are following 665 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: on deaf ears up north. They don't really like the 666 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: racism thing. What else could we do? And somebody said, 667 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: what about classism? And they said, oh yeah, there's a 668 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: lot of rich people up in the North. They're gonna 669 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: love our classist argument. And so what they said is 670 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: exactly what you were saying. That if you let these 671 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: people who haven't haven't ever earned anything in their life 672 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: get elected to office, they're gonna get ahold of all 673 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: this taxpayer money and they're gonna redistribute wealth. They're gonna 674 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: take hard earned white wealth and redistribute it to lazy, 675 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: shiftless former black slaves. And do you really want that? 676 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: And by the way, it has nothing to do with 677 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: being black. If you let any worker do that, if 678 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: you let any worker vote, any worker get into office, 679 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: they're going to redistribute wealth. And even today, uh, Heather 680 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: Cox richards And make a really great connection to today 681 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: where if you if we talk about an activist government, 682 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: a government that says we're here to really help raise 683 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: the well being of everybody. People say activist government and 684 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: they want to redistribute wealth, and it's probably either run 685 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,720 Speaker 1: by or being run for the benefit of people of color. 686 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: That's still that whole idea still goes on today, and 687 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: it finds its roots in the post Civil War reconstruction South, 688 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: where the Southerners finally got the ear and the sympathies 689 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: of the Northerners by shifting the focus from racism to classism. Well, 690 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: they they scared them financially, there is going to hit 691 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: your pocketbook, and that really pricked up their ears at 692 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: that point. It did, and so people say, well, you know, 693 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: reconstruction was abandoned, and that's exactly right. It was an 694 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: astounding project. From eighteen seventy three different constitutional amendments were introduced, 695 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: past and ratified that ended slavery, that A created due 696 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: process of law, and that UM gave black men the 697 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: right to vote. Within five years, there was like it 698 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: was very promising. Black people were running and being elected 699 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: to Southern UM, Southern town councils, state legislators, judge ships, 700 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: like things were happening. But then when the North kind 701 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: of lost interest or lost its initiative to keep going. 702 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: It just fell apart, and the North definitely turned its 703 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,919 Speaker 1: back on black Southern Americans and left them out high 704 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 1: and dry and opened the door for Jim crow Loss. Yeah, 705 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: I feel like this guy's I mean, I'm from the South, 706 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: but you lived here quite a while. Like I feel 707 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: like we're always saying, hey, listen, it was a problem 708 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: all over the place everybody, And it's true, but this 709 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: is I don't know, it's hard to sort of break 710 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: the I mean, the stereotype is there for a reason 711 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: in the South obviously, but definitely I think there were 712 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: just so many comes as it um corporations and and 713 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: rich white Northerners that uh, you know, we need to 714 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: bring that up. Well, the KKK sucked a lot of 715 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: the oxygen down towards the South as far as blame goes, 716 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: because they definitely did engage in a terror campaign to 717 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: like get black people out of politics and out of 718 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: like the idea that they should be participating in society. 719 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: And then even when black people went ahead and did 720 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: it and the KKK wasn't around, just northern normal white 721 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,720 Speaker 1: townspeople would riot and like kill like black office holders 722 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: and to keep the status quo going. So I mean 723 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: like it was. It was when the North left it. 724 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: They just completely left black Southerners out to dry, like 725 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: in one of the biggest betrayals. It's it's ever taken 726 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: place in the history of this country. Yeah, I mean there, 727 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: it definitely. I know that that nimby is sort of 728 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: a modern internet phrase. Have you heard of that? No, 729 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: not in my backyard. Oh yeah, yeah, I've heard that. 730 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: I've never heard the acronym there. Yeah. Now, I mean, 731 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: you know how it is these days, everything is just shortened, 732 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: so now you just say nimby on social media. But 733 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nimbi nimbiness going on back then 734 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: for sure. For sure, and the idea that oh it's 735 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: not because they're black, it's because they're poor workers. We 736 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: can't give poorer workers rights. That it made it a 737 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: lot more palatable for northerns to kind of take part 738 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: and feel okay about themselves with that. That's right. So 739 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: again we just want to say what we were talking about, 740 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: these black codes and the two types of reconstruction. We're 741 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: talking about like a one to fifteen year period in 742 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: American history, but it's one of the periods that has 743 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: some of the farthest reaching repercussions that are still around today. Um, 744 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: and it's just astounding to me like that that it 745 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: went from slave codes to black codes to Jim Crow 746 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: laws and then finally the Civil Rights era got America 747 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: to say on paper, we're not racist any longer, which 748 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: is where a lot of people end it. But those 749 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: are the same people that point to the Civil Rights 750 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: are and say, see, America is not racist anymore, which 751 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: is probably the gas lighting is gas lighting you could 752 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: possibly experience in America today if you ask me, that's right. 753 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: And hey, if we're recommending documentaries along these lines, I'm 754 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: gonna recommend the HBO four part documentary Exterminate All the Roots. 755 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,760 Speaker 1: Have you seen that one? No, it's great, it's uh. 756 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: It's made and narrated by Raoul Peck, and it is 757 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: a four part series that basically draws the line from 758 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: the very beginning, like the very first uh efforts at 759 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: colonization and gen and genocide by the Spanish, you know, however, 760 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 1: many hundreds of years ago that was, and they draw 761 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: he's he he basically kind of covers colonization in genocide 762 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: over the years throughout history. But the way he draws 763 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: direct straight lines from then to now and what we're 764 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,280 Speaker 1: looking at now in America and all over the world 765 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: is really impactful. It's hard to describe how like some 766 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: of it is uh, straight up documentary. Some of it 767 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: is recreations, but like really really good historical recreations while 768 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: he's narrating, and he just uses amazing graphics to illustrate 769 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: to really hit home a lot of stuff. It's I mean, 770 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: it's like going to school. It is super dense and 771 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 1: and hetty, but I really, if you got four hours 772 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,879 Speaker 1: to kill exterminate all the brutes is great. Yeah. That's 773 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: what kept coming up for me when we were researching 774 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: Black codes. I was like, oh, that's still going on today. 775 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: Oh that's still how a lot of white people think 776 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: about black people today. Um, It's just it's nuts, Like, 777 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: how how much of a society, our society is still 778 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: just kind of predicated on these these terrible impressions. You 779 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: know that we're created and per perpetuated by the Southern 780 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: planting planner class. Yeah, and that's why it's super frustrating 781 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: when anyone ever says like, oh, this is an eric 782 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: everyone just has an equal shot in this country. I 783 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: don't want to hear anything else. Yeah, I just I 784 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: can't even you know, it's hard to even head of 785 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: a discussion with someone who says something like that, I 786 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: know what you mean. Jim Crow was not that long ago. No, 787 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: it wasn't. We'll keep chipping away at it, huh yeah, 788 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll, I mean, Jim Crow has sort of 789 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: been something we wanted to cover for a long time. Um, okay, Well, 790 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: in the meantime, if you want to know more about 791 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: Black Codes, there's a lot of ink that's been written 792 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: about it, and it is all really good and interesting 793 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,359 Speaker 1: and eye opening, and you should probably spend a little 794 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: more time researching it. And since I said that it's 795 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: time for a listener mail, I'm gonna call this just 796 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: a letter of thanks from one of our oldest, uh 797 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, most long time listeners. I think Ian Clarkson 798 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 1: has been listening for a while. Enjoyed Into the World, 799 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: was a movie crusher when that was around, And uh, 800 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: this is from Ian and Ian legit freaked out that 801 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm reading this so good it always makes me happy 802 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: for sure. Howdy from Dallas, guys. I wanted to reach 803 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: out and just begin by saying thank you, for all 804 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: the joyful content you provide the world during the gloomy 805 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: time of covid UH and adolescence, I really needed a 806 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,240 Speaker 1: boost that y'all provided. I've listened since I was seventeen. 807 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: Now I'm twenty five, and abe Stuff you Should Know 808 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: is my classroom long since I've exited school. Josh drove 809 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: me to get my archaeology minor, and Chuck is uh. 810 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: I know how about that? And Chuck has given me 811 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: and my family endless amounts of movies and nights of joy. 812 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: We outsourced a lot of our movie picking to Chuck. Actually, 813 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: all of you are wonderful humans, and I just wanted 814 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: to reach out and express my pure joy that I 815 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: received from Stuff you Should Know. I can't I think 816 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: all enough for being so insightful and kind with what 817 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: you create. Hope to one day be able to share 818 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: your catalog with my kids. I've written in once before 819 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: when I was in high school too, but I thought 820 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: i'd reach out again. Both of you remind my parents 821 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: of Click and clack. We've gotten that from a bunch 822 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: of people. That's the highest praise you can get anyway. Hope, 823 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: Hope pull as well. This if you should know podcast 824 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: Office and that you're all enjoying you're descent into the holidays. 825 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: Your loyal fan, Ian Clarkson. Ian is a great dude. 826 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: That was a fantastic email. Ian, thanks a lot for 827 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: that and hello from us. That's right, Hardy. Hello, that's right. Uh. 828 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us like 829 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: Ian did, you can send us an email to wrap 830 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: it up spending on the bottom and send it off 831 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 1: to stuff podcast at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff 832 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 833 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,879 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 834 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 835 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: favorite shows.