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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie Band. This is the

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Speaker 1: Old New Old ball Man. Do we have a great,

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Speaker 1: great podcast for you. I'm super super excited. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are times in your life when you reconnect with

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Speaker 1: somebody and it's a different stage in your life and

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Speaker 1: you view them very differently. When I played at Okahoma State,

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Speaker 1: I had these imaginary rivals, you know. Um, I became

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Speaker 1: a guy who you know, my worth, my value was

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Speaker 1: based upon if we won and how many assists I had.

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Speaker 1: And so there were a couple of guys who were

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Speaker 1: competitors of mine at the time, one of which is

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Speaker 1: our guest today. His names Mark Dickel. He's originally from

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. He's got a fabulous personal story. He's been

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Speaker 1: a proud g a player and a coach. Wait till

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Speaker 1: year I get the head coaching job of the Albanian nationals. Um,

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Speaker 1: let me start doing with a couple of different things

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Speaker 1: here basketball wise, before we get to my talcome artickle.

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Speaker 1: First thing is the love for mission. I love Michian

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Speaker 1: I think what you want Howard's done is amazing. As

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Speaker 1: I pointed out on Twitter, it's not just Juwan Howard.

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Speaker 1: It's the people he hired, especially a guy like a

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Speaker 1: Film Martelli or Sadie Washington. Fill Martell, you had been

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Speaker 1: at a Vision one head coach for a long time,

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Speaker 1: of course, most totably. I mean he he was the

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Speaker 1: legend of St. Joseph's. And Sadie Washington, who turned down

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Speaker 1: Western Michigan, is all the mater to remain as Michigan's

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Speaker 1: assistant coach. You get guys who know what you don't know.

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Speaker 1: That that doesn't mean you don't know basketball, but college

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Speaker 1: basketball is very different. And what Juwan has done is

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Speaker 1: hire people who know what he doesn't know and empowered them,

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Speaker 1: and they're beautifully coach basketball. He's also not like shoving

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Speaker 1: his son down our throats and playing him all the time.

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Speaker 1: He's letting him earn his minutes. And everybody gets this

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Speaker 1: year back. Anyway. We'll see how they do against Ohio

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Speaker 1: State this week. Is look at their schedule and who

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Speaker 1: are they playing. You know, even the Penn State game,

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Speaker 1: which was escape at home. They play at Penn State

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Speaker 1: had played Illinois, I played Indianna, play Ohio State here

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Speaker 1: at this upcoming weekend, and played Iowa. So the best

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Speaker 1: team is the Big ten they have played, so it

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Speaker 1: inflates their record something. Does it mean that they stink? No,

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're one of the three league teams in

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Speaker 1: the country. Not yet, not yet. I think that has

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Speaker 1: to be proved. Um. I think it's really funny to me,

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Speaker 1: he's some of the NBA conversations over All Star snubs

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Speaker 1: and look, fans picked Luca instead of picking Damian Lillard

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Speaker 1: or Donald Mitchell. I think Gamian low has had a

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Speaker 1: better year. I think Luca had a much better year

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Speaker 1: last year and the second half of the year, and

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Speaker 1: doesn't that deserve any sort of recognition. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a fantastic question, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting on how guys get really bent out of shape

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Speaker 1: over all start selections in an All Star game that

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Speaker 1: none of them want to play it. Also, they don't

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Speaker 1: want to play in a game that they approved, like

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Speaker 1: Players Association approved the All Star Game. There is no

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Speaker 1: discussion about having I don't think they should have it.

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Speaker 1: I think a waste of time. Can't hang out, can't

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Speaker 1: go out, only no fans there. It's gonna be super weird.

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Speaker 1: But if you agree to doing it, there's an effort

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Speaker 1: to keep all your money and guess what you have

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Speaker 1: to do. You have to do it all right. I

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Speaker 1: thought you'd like this. Mark Dikel just got back from

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Speaker 1: me and the head coach the Philippin national team just

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Speaker 1: add back surgery. So she's been on the shelf a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Um. We had a great talk. Ah, take

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Speaker 1: a listen. Yeah, so there's a bunch of things to

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Speaker 1: get into. Let's let's just start with your current state.

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Speaker 1: Do you just had back surgery? Yeah, yeah, so so

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Speaker 1: so three weeks ago. Just uh, you just got sick

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Speaker 1: and tired of hurting all the time, you know, So

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Speaker 1: it just went back in And I had a surgery

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. Um, actually had it done in Athens

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Speaker 1: when I was playing over there, and and and the

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Speaker 1: surgeries are so much different now. So they kind of

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Speaker 1: went back in and cleaned that one up and L

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Speaker 1: four to sect to me. Oh wait, so you had

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Speaker 1: a you were brave enough to have a surgery in

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Speaker 1: a foreign country. I was told, don't ever do that.

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Speaker 1: They'll never let him catch it there. Go home and

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Speaker 1: let catch it at home. Yeah it sounded right, But

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Speaker 1: at the time, man, I like the idea of getting

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Speaker 1: that money too, right, So so they kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of played into that. But no, the surgery over there

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Speaker 1: was good. It was just you know, like so different

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Speaker 1: now like nowadays, the the surgeries like half an inch.

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Speaker 1: Back then it was like three four inches. They kept

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Speaker 1: you open, right, so so definitely back and they're cleaned

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Speaker 1: it up. I mean, it already feels much better. It's

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Speaker 1: just you know, getting older, man, you have a slow rehab.

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Speaker 1: Now it's going to take forever to come right. So

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Speaker 1: was it it was it like a herd disk or

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Speaker 1: what's that's the actual diagnosis? Yeah? Yeah, So I had

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Speaker 1: a had of protruding disc is sitting on the on

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Speaker 1: the nerve on my right side and alf four right

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Speaker 1: so they kind of going there, shave it down and

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Speaker 1: and all that nerve pain going down my right leg

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Speaker 1: stopped straight away. So that was really my the major

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable part of it, you know. So once that nerve

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Speaker 1: plane went away, I started feeling like I could walk

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Speaker 1: around and do stuff again. It's one of the first

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Speaker 1: things you learned when you're doing this side of it

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Speaker 1: is a protruding disk protruding disc. You have to make

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Speaker 1: sure you're protruding disc if you don't say. If you

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Speaker 1: say disc quickly, what's protruding is not what you want

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Speaker 1: to have protruding, right, Okay, So like look, you know

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Speaker 1: obviously our past cross when played against each other twice,

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Speaker 1: and you love the country one year, and I love

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Speaker 1: the country another year, and assist, you've gone onto playing

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Speaker 1: and coaching and I've gone out of my thing. But

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Speaker 1: we were growing up, like what was your first memories

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Speaker 1: the best, well, my first memories of basketball. We're kind

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Speaker 1: of like the n c A tournament, like one shining moment, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we didn't get a whole lot of basketball in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand growing up, you know, such a rugby dominated country

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Speaker 1: that you know, my dad was a coach and and

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Speaker 1: he wrote to a lot of coaches in the States

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Speaker 1: to get like books, you know, VCRs, you know, Beta

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Speaker 1: whatever the tape was back then. So that yeah, Beta Max,

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Speaker 1: so really man, that that was kind of my initiation.

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Speaker 1: So all the schools that were good back then, um,

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Speaker 1: you know in the eighties and nineties and kind of

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Speaker 1: the same same dominating kind of now. So like back

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Speaker 1: in the day it was you know, North Carolina, Georgetown, Um,

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Speaker 1: kind of grew up like with that as the focal point,

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Speaker 1: like what my dream was to try and make college

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Speaker 1: right because but what was what was like your your

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Speaker 1: hometown New Zealand as well, the need in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: right at the bottom of the South Island. Go any further,

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Speaker 1: you're at being tactic. Okay. So I'm guessing like got

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Speaker 1: to be cold in the winter, rightly, Yeah, really really

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Speaker 1: cold in the winter and not that warm in the summer.

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Speaker 1: Um kind of temperate climate, Like we might get snowed

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Speaker 1: down to sea level every now and then, but we

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Speaker 1: get that southerly coming from the Antarctic, man, and that's

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Speaker 1: not too warm. Right, So anytime the winter or the

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Speaker 1: wind comes from the North Islands is warm. Anytime it

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Speaker 1: comes from the South, it's cold. So growing up over

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Speaker 1: be a man different place, Okay. So again, like give

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Speaker 1: me the like do you live in the house apartment?

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Speaker 1: Growing up? Again? Like you're talking about my My only

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Speaker 1: knowledge in New Zealand is um uh is that The

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings was filmed somewhere around New Zealand And,

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Speaker 1: which looks beautiful. But that's not all of New Zealand, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So give me the Well, I grew up in Orange County,

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Speaker 1: Man it's it's a it's it looks like everything out

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Speaker 1: of the eighties that you would think of. Most of

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Speaker 1: the houses look the same. They're all small, small lots

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And you had to go to a park

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Speaker 1: to shoot hoop. What was your you're growing up was

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Speaker 1: luf Well, you know, head of house looks really close

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Speaker 1: to the ocean, you know everywhere in New Zealand, you know,

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Speaker 1: around the coastline, so you know, I've walked, I walked

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Speaker 1: down my driveway were kind of in the ocean. We

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Speaker 1: had a home in my house, which was kind of

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Speaker 1: real for New Zealand. And you know, not that many

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Speaker 1: people back there played as opposed to now where it's

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Speaker 1: actually challenging rugby as the most played sport, you know,

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Speaker 1: thanks to Steve Adams and and the influence of really

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Speaker 1: NBA two K, but really growing up over there, man,

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Speaker 1: it was just different, you know, just different, just you know,

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Speaker 1: sport was everything, but the sport that I love, basketball,

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Speaker 1: really no one played. So I kind of leaned on

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Speaker 1: my father a lot. And Drew come from well, you know,

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Speaker 1: initially he was, you know, like everyone else, rugby cricket

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand. You know, they're the two sports. But

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Speaker 1: in the sixties, the Boston Celtics actually traveled to New

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Speaker 1: Zealand and barnstormed and played and he played basketball in

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Speaker 1: our area and he actually played against the Celtics, so

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Speaker 1: that was kind of when he kind of fell in

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Speaker 1: love with basketball. Red Alback took teams over there, and

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Speaker 1: I think two years in a row they went there,

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Speaker 1: So so he kind of got the a bug from

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Speaker 1: that because prior to that, man, you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: just very very difficult to get the information to play

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Speaker 1: a sport like that. It wasn't really you know, I

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Speaker 1: think in New Zealand. You know, the Mormon missionary has

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Speaker 1: had a huge part to passing that game on, just

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Speaker 1: going around the world and teaching everybody the game. So

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Speaker 1: so my dad kind of fell in love with it

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Speaker 1: like that and then and then just really wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a good coach at it, and there was really

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Speaker 1: no coaches in our area, so he kind of just

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Speaker 1: asked everybody he knew and and and read as much

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Speaker 1: as he could, and and that was kind of it.

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Speaker 1: So kind of when I came along and my brother

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Speaker 1: came along, he kind of he kind of used us

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Speaker 1: as guinea pigs. A little bit and tried to show

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Speaker 1: us stuff and try and help us and see which

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Speaker 1: one of us really wanted to go on, older or

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Speaker 1: younger brother two years older, Hey, little brothers, so you

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Speaker 1: get you get the benefit of having somebody to kind

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Speaker 1: of beat up by you and push you right, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a younger brother as well, So I

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Speaker 1: remember what completely what that was like, trying to earn

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Speaker 1: the respects your first your first chance to really see

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Speaker 1: how good you were as a kid, was held probably

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Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen. We didn't really have you know, nowadays

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand, it's kind of like a AU now

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, they're playing so young. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the first tournament I played, and I think

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Speaker 1: was under fifteen's right, So right up until then, you

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Speaker 1: kind of just play around outside at under fifteens. That

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Speaker 1: was kind of when I was like, okay, in my area,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm a better player than most of the

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Speaker 1: other kids. And then when you go away to national

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Speaker 1: tournaments you start working out, man, and there's not really

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Speaker 1: that many other players better than you at that age either.

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Speaker 1: So that was kind of the first time I realized, man,

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Speaker 1: I might be able to go on and do something here.

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Speaker 1: And I was little Doug. When I was growing up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really grow. I didn't really grow

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Speaker 1: until I was sixteen. So so from that perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of fighting for respect, you're kind of fighting

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Speaker 1: for position, you're kind of fighting for everything. Right, So

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Speaker 1: when you're a little when you're young, I think it

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Speaker 1: kind of helps. Yeah, my son's actually going through that now.

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Speaker 1: I stayed back in theself so little and it really

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Speaker 1: helped me. I grew like I was like five ft

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Speaker 1: tall when I was fourteen years old, and then by

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Speaker 1: the time I was fifteen I went to high school,

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Speaker 1: I was like five nine ten, right, I mean just

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Speaker 1: kind of sprouted. And then when I got to college

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Speaker 1: and the kind of that second way, like your man

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Speaker 1: muscles come in, you know, like all those things. Had

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Speaker 1: that stay back would have been it would have been

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Speaker 1: harder to compete at the at the higher level. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you grew late, you're like sixteen, When did it

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Speaker 1: become possible that you could play in college? Well kind

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Speaker 1: of then it kind of all happened at once. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the protein in my area, Um, they've been

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Speaker 1: very very good for teen or fifteen years, and they

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Speaker 1: just had a whole lot of older players retired at

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Speaker 1: the same time. So that kind of coincided with me

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Speaker 1: growing a whole lot. And it was over a summer

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Speaker 1: period of three months that I grew. So I just

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Speaker 1: went to the trial, was there, made the team when

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Speaker 1: I was still I think I was a sophomore junior

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Speaker 1: in high school. So I started playing with the ProTeam.

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Speaker 1: So from that perspective, you know, I'm playing minutes on

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Speaker 1: the protein, I kind of started dreaming bigger a little bit,

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Speaker 1: like man, maybe I could go on, but we only

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Speaker 1: had one player from New Zealand before me go to

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Speaker 1: college and do well and play as stan Hill. He

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Speaker 1: went to San Jose State six or eleven, really good average,

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Speaker 1: about eighteens sophomore year, I believe, and then left school,

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Speaker 1: went to Europe and started playing. So he was kind

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Speaker 1: of New Zealand's best ever player and he was big.

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Speaker 1: So that kind of set the bar like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the imports that came out to our country, the guards,

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Speaker 1: they were so good that you know, you realize that

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Speaker 1: they were just good enough to play at a Division

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Speaker 1: one school. How good do you have to be? Right,

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Speaker 1: So paying on your protein. When a guy named Leonard King,

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Speaker 1: he played at a Florida Atlantic um Man. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot going back and every year we seemed to change,

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Speaker 1: but he was the main one for seven or eight

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Speaker 1: years on my on our proteins, and from the time

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Speaker 1: I was like eleven or twelve when played with me

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Speaker 1: to three years before I went to school, so he

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Speaker 1: was kind of the one that pushed me and encouraged

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Speaker 1: me to man, maybe I could go ahead and do that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how did you get to U and l V. Well,

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Speaker 1: when I was eighteen, I made the national team in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and we play Australia, so those games are

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Speaker 1: on TV in Australia and New Zealand. And there was

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Speaker 1: a coach in Australian named Brian Gorgian right, who was

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Speaker 1: now the Australian national team coach. He's been the Chinese

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Speaker 1: national team coach seven eight years previously. But his father

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Speaker 1: was Ed Gorgian right. Brian's the brother of Greg Gorgian,

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Speaker 1: who you also might know from l A scored a

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Speaker 1: million points there in high school. But Ed Gorgian was

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Speaker 1: assistant coach at U and LB for a long long

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Speaker 1: time with Tuck was there in their winnings. So so

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Speaker 1: Brian called my father just randomly and said, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: I still have a connection at certain schools. Is your

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Speaker 1: son interested in going up? Until then, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: very very hard to get recruited from a place when

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Speaker 1: no one's recruiting you, right, So so it was really him.

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Speaker 1: He kind of opened a few doors. And then I

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Speaker 1: went to Australia for three or four months to live

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Speaker 1: with him and to train and get ready, and and

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Speaker 1: then we settled it and we kind of narrowed it

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Speaker 1: down to a couple of schools. And that's when Bill

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Speaker 1: Bano came into play. And once once Bill Beano gets

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Speaker 1: his hands on you, it's very very difficult to go

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Speaker 1: anywhere else. Okay, So Billy back then was young. I

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Speaker 1: mean he was a good looking like good drassery were

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Speaker 1: loafers and games. So what do you remember about your

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Speaker 1: first time you met Billy? I just thought he was cool, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that was the best thing, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: cool and like like he treated you know, he was

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Speaker 1: one of the real ones that treated you like an

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Speaker 1: adult already, right, so you know, and he was honest

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Speaker 1: with me, said man you're going to have to really

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Speaker 1: work if you want to play. It didn't guarantee me anything,

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Speaker 1: but but he was the first coach that I kind

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Speaker 1: of connected with, right, So so it was easy man.

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Speaker 1: He came to Australia twice, we hung out, um yeah,

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Speaker 1: and just him working out with you, and that's really

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Speaker 1: his genius, you know, he's just helping you get better

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Speaker 1: and see what you need to work on and relating

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Speaker 1: with you like that. That's where we always connected was

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Speaker 1: on the court. So so it was easy man. You know,

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Speaker 1: I just believed in him. You know, at that point,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know who else he had on the team.

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Speaker 1: I've never visited Vegas, you know, I was just really

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Speaker 1: going off him. Have you've been to America before? I

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Speaker 1: had been a couple of times because back in the

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Speaker 1: day with New Zealand national team, we would come and

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Speaker 1: play like everybody's exhibition games. So we'd just take hidings

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Speaker 1: man from everybody, right. So we played TCU one night

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Speaker 1: and then we played uh U c l A the

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Speaker 1: next night, and we'll play usc SEE the next night.

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Speaker 1: So you're kind of on a hiding for nothing. But

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Speaker 1: it was great because you've got to see you know

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Speaker 1: a the schools and are close what they're doing, but

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Speaker 1: just how good the players were and how much you'd

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Speaker 1: have to improve. As you've been to Vegas before I had.

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Speaker 1: We've kind of gone through Vegas, so I've been there

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Speaker 1: for a day and a half. But man, I was

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Speaker 1: so young and naive at that particular junction. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what they get us, right, Okay, So you

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Speaker 1: so you committed on to un l V and you

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Speaker 1: leave home and you've been training in Australia, so it's

326
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Speaker 1: not like you haven't been away from home. You show

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Speaker 1: what what's it like to arrive in Vegas ninety six

328
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Speaker 1: and you get off the plane? Do you remember who

329
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Speaker 1: you what's what's the first members of showing up? Well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first memories I have is that you know, the

331
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Speaker 1: airport is so close to the Thomas and that you

332
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Speaker 1: know so close, So we went right there and Beano

333
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Speaker 1: was there right so kind of you know, the first

334
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: hour or so, he's just talking, you know, then he's like, okay,

335
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Speaker 1: you know, we've got to get you situated in your apartment,

336
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Speaker 1: you know. So all that kind of then goes on

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Speaker 1: for a couple of days, um, and then really uh

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Speaker 1: my first real Okay, I'm now in Vegas. As we

339
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 1: went to play open gym and that's when I saw

340
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Speaker 1: some of the other players that were on McKeen, you know,

341
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: Keon Clark, Tyrone Nesby, guys like that. That's when I

342
00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh oh yeah, I did realized it was

343
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Speaker 1: gonna be like that, right. So so that was really

344
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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of days in and starting to

345
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Speaker 1: play with them and realizing, man, I got a long

346
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: way to go if I want to play here. Yeah. Well,

347
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Speaker 1: Kean Clark so he used to What's interesting about that

348
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 1: group was Keon was that Irvine Valley for a year.

349
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Speaker 1: So he used to train at UC Irvine. There's a

350
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 1: great pickup games U s Irvine and there was a

351
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Speaker 1: point guard name Raymond Inglish and um uh uh yeah.

352
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Speaker 1: And then Kevin Simmons. Of course you transferred from USE,

353
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Speaker 1: so you see, I was stacked. And then I don't

354
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: remember they got an NCA trouble where there's a coaching

355
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Speaker 1: change or what. But then they all left and my boy,

356
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 1: Clay mcnaighty he went to Pacific Simmons. Kevin Simmons went

357
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Speaker 1: to un l V. So did um, what's his name?

358
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Speaker 1: You're shooting guards NBA system. Why am I forgetting right now?

359
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 1: Brian Brian Keith right. So so all so you don't

360
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: know this, but like all of our I know, all

361
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 1: those dudes that you're playing with and working out with

362
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 1: Tyronez view was on free. So you show up and

363
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: you're like, you know, let's see what this is like.

364
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Speaker 1: And you see these dudes running up and down. What's

365
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: going on in your mind? Well? I just I just

366
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 1: never been exposed to it, you know, like the demand

367
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Speaker 1: for the ball that you know, like like I'm not

368
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Speaker 1: going to get to shoot you ever here. This is

369
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Speaker 1: the first thing I was aware of, and and and

370
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Speaker 1: rightfully in that case, man, they do good things with it,

371
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: right So so you know that was the first thing.

372
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Speaker 1: And then and then just just the athleticism, the speed

373
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Speaker 1: of the game, like how they moved that quick. Everything happens,

374
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Speaker 1: you know, it was just all an adjustment. You know,

375
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: you had you had great speed, Your end to end

376
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: speed was outstanding. Did you train for it? I mean

377
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Speaker 1: you know your dad played, but where'd your end end

378
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 1: speed comprom I just reintract like in in high school, right, um,

379
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and then just just just taking advantage

380
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 1: of kind of what of kind of what you've been given? Right,

381
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,159
Speaker 1: So I never really thought about it too much. I

382
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: just you know, maybe maybe out of necessity, maybe out

383
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: of just like man, they can't pressure you if you

384
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 1: go right by them, right, maybe that's the philosophy. But

385
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: but then didn't really didn't really think about it until

386
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 1: you know, you start coaching and you start trying to

387
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: trying to encourage people to play faster and trying to

388
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 1: do stuff like that. That's really started me on the

389
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 1: process of like how can I make not make how

390
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 1: can I help people play like that? Right? Just how

391
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,880
Speaker 1: do you It's it's a great how do you playing bad? Well,

392
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 1: You've you've you've got to find people that are just

393
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: as fast with the ball is without it. And that's

394
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 1: a really hard thing, right, because most people are too

395
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: scared to make mistakes because you're gonna make mistakes, right,

396
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: and especially playing our position, mistakes are scoffed at, right,

397
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: like you don't want people to make mistakes, right, So

398
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: I think that's what I think that's what scares a

399
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: lot of players who have that ability to not play

400
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: like that, right. So so with me, it's just trying

401
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: to reassure the players. Hey, look, if you play at

402
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 1: that tempo in that rhym, you've got to make mistakes

403
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: until you get used to it, and then you know

404
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a real asset and strength to your

405
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 1: is that, you know, you kind of expect players to

406
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 1: play like that. If they're not gonna feel free to

407
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: make the mistakes that they're gonna make. So, you know,

408
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 1: for me playing for my father growing up, I think

409
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 1: that's what helped me. He just didn't you know, he

410
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: didn't hold me beck. He encouraged me, and so did

411
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: all the other coaches that coached me when I was young,

412
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: because that would have been an easy thing to knock

413
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: out of somebody just by telling him to not do

414
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 1: it right. So play slower, Yeah, just to play slow

415
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 1: with me. One of the things you try and do

416
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 1: is to try and I've tried this for little kids,

417
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 1: is you have them run up and down the court

418
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: as fast as they can in time of Okay, now

419
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: do it with the basketball. There's no reason you can't

420
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 1: do it at about the same speed, right if you're

421
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: pet pushing the ball in front of you, and like,

422
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: that's the outimal speed, but it's it's really hard to

423
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,159
Speaker 1: teach guys to play at it. And that's that's honestly, Like,

424
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: I think the hardest adjustment for when you go to

425
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: college is the speed is you know, it's just different

426
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: like when you get to the professional game. And I

427
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: don't know what you thought, but I thought I always

428
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 1: thought when you step up, especially in American professional basketball,

429
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: it's the length more than the speed, you know, because

430
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: the holes, everything closes up so much quicker because their length.

431
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: But the difference in high school of college is guys

432
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: play harder and guys are way faster. Yeah, right right,

433
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: And it's really and it's hard to replicate. And you

434
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: have that youth basketball where you play, you know, you

435
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: play a team from the city and they're gonna get

436
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: after you, and they just have speeded there's no mispatch.

437
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: They have speed at every position and you have to

438
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,239
Speaker 1: learn to you have to learn to play at your

439
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: own pace within their pace. That's a really hard thing

440
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 1: to do. Mm hmm. Okay, so you're not you and ovate.

441
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: I'll give you my first memory when we came to

442
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: play you guys. Okay, so the year before I got there,

443
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: so you're nineties, Uh, you guys, went to still Water

444
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: and Tyrone Nesby dunked on Alex Weber and like for

445
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: the life, for our entire my entire three years is

446
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: still Water. We'd always pull up that tape and Alex

447
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: Big Alex would almost want to cry because it was

448
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: then that one of the nasty has done to him,

449
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: seeing right, But by the time we got around to playing,

450
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 1: you guys, it was your junior year, both of our

451
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: junior year, and I was in a shitty place with

452
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: coach and I remember you guys had Sean Marian, Yeah

453
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: you yeah, Brian Keith, you have Kevin Simmons, You've got

454
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: Casper's Campbell, like you guys, guad what was But what

455
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: was it actually like to play? Be honest, Look, look, look,

456
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: look man, it's not letting the cat out of bag.

457
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: We were just too loose, you know, everything was too loose,

458
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, like we just had too much talent. If

459
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: there's such a thing, and and and and just too loose,

460
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: you know, like a billy had that job now to

461
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: be a different world, right, a different world. But at

462
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: that time, hey man, we're all around the same age

463
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: as he was. He's twenty nine years old when I

464
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: came here right now, and even we're playing you guys.

465
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: So we're playing you guys right And Clay mcnaho had

466
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: was on the u c I team he flew in.

467
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: He played earlier in that day for Pacific, and I

468
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: would never forget um. The game was kind of a

469
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: wrap with like four or five minutes left to go,

470
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: and Casper's comes out at the feet that I go, yo,

471
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: what you guys getting into tonight? We're like, what where

472
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: you got? We're like, we're going to the hard rock,

473
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: the Circle bar, the hard Rock. So there we had

474
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: never like that ship just doesn't like, look we played

475
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: at all. We live in a small college town. Nobody

476
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: stays to night afterwards. Definitely nobody hangs out with the

477
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: team they played against. But he was. He was cool,

478
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: Like he was the scariest dude I had ever looked

479
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: at competing against. And he was. He was cool. Again,

480
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: probably a little too cool. I want to hang out

481
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: too much, but it was definitely it was a that

482
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: was a different team where you guys were so talented

483
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: and yet uh it was just a game and he

484
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: didn't win. It was okay, we'll go and hang out.

485
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: We'll go try again tomorrow. Yeah, it was a look. Look, man,

486
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: it was. It was a different thing, I think because

487
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: the expectations in Vegas have been so high four or

488
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: five years earlier, and then before we all came, they

489
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: were so low when Billy got the job, right, Like,

490
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: we kind of had a little bit of a grace

491
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: period there, but maybe we shouldn't have had. Um, you know,

492
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: like I thought we were talented enough to get with anybody,

493
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: but it's very, very difficult when when the roster kept changing,

494
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: Like you know, we got backups to deserve to play.

495
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: So if somebody has a couple of bad games, they're

496
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: out there guys in now. So I think that was

497
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: a big part of it. Guys just never got comfortable

498
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: in their role. Um, and the other teams you're playing

499
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: and hell are good man, Like you guys were good,

500
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: Like we could lose to you guys straight up, right,

501
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 1: So so like I think, you know, like we had

502
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: a couple of tough losses and then things would change

503
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: again and then it would be conference, right, So we

504
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: kind of always got in there in that mode that

505
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: it wasn't really still conference. That we started coming together

506
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: and working out exactly who's going to play and how

507
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: much we're going to play and what's going on? What

508
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: about for you? Like, what what's it like to be

509
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: the point guard of U and l V in Vegas? Look?

510
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: Look it was great, man. It was everything I would

511
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: wanted it to be, right, like, uh, you know, like

512
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: the hardest thing was a the expectations. Um, you know,

513
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: I desperately wanted to play. Um, I didn't want to

514
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: sit on the bench, right, But I know it's kind

515
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 1: of been very very explicit and like, look, if you shoot,

516
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 1: there's a good chance I'm gonna put somebody else in.

517
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: I wanted someone to run the team and get the

518
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: but it becomes very difficult, as you know, if the

519
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: other team knows you're not going to shoot, you know,

520
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: they tend to freak and make it very very difficult

521
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: for you. And what happens. Here's what's interesting about it

522
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: is like you get to this place where you're like, look,

523
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: I can make shots, but in the well, you don't

524
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: have any confidence, Like, well, your coach has no confidence

525
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: in you. How are you supposed to have any You

526
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: have to have such supreme self confidence. And I'm just

527
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: not built that way, right. I'm a pleaser, you know,

528
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: and I just and I'm just assuming you're that way

529
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: where it was just like, hey, why don't you shoot?

530
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: Like well, because if I missed to it would take

531
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: me out. So I don't want to sit out, so

532
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: don't shoot, and then guys start playing off you and

533
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: you it's hard to watch college films sometimes. Yeah, yeah,

534
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I kind of I kind of

535
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: went through it, like like the sophomore year, we had

536
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: a couple of guys if my spot get hurt, so

537
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: for the last fifteen games, he kind of let me play,

538
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 1: let me you know, and we won our conference, went

539
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: to the tournament. My junior year, first half of the

540
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: year I hurt my ankle, so I wasn't really that

541
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: kind of Junior year was a wash even though we

542
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: had a really talented team. And then my senior year

543
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: everyone left, so he kind of let me do whatever.

544
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: I could shoot, I could play, and there was no

545
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: one else you could take me out of. That's kind

546
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: of how my career felt, right Like if I would

547
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: break it down, it was like all right my senior year, Yeah,

548
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: like I understand why he did it because we didn't

549
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: have the super talent that we had previously. You've done

550
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: plan at you. It will be what happens. I get

551
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: done planning at you and l v um. I'm trying

552
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: to get ready for pre draft camps. I get hurt, right, Um,

553
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: have a bad injury. Go back to New Zealand. Uh

554
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: four or five months, so I do nothing. I go

555
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: to the Olympics for New Zealand. We automatically qualified because

556
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: the Olympics is in Australia in Sydney. So we go

557
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: there with New Zealand. We get beat badly by everybody.

558
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Wasn't a great play and experience who you play? We

559
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: played everyone? Man. You know we're in the group with

560
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: the USA, Serbia, well they were Yugoslavia then I believe Croatia, Lithuania, China,

561
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: and Angola. We beat Angola at least give Mangola right,

562
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: But so so after that, I actually signed it in Australia.

563
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: For my first two years. I played for Brian Gorgian

564
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: over there again, which was really good. Um. You know,

565
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: he kind of taught me a little bit more about

566
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: the pro game. So you can't rediscover your game too, right,

567
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: You're like yeah, man, like like like definitely, it's it's uh,

568
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: it's different, you know, like like like the college thing.

569
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: You know, you don't realize that you're in your own

570
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: little world right at the moment you're out of it,

571
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: you'll do all right, well that like it never happened,

572
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: and then you're right on to being an adult. Right. So,

573
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: so my first couple of years it was like, Okay,

574
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: you know, this is a totally different game. You just

575
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: can't play like that anymore. You've got to give these

576
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: other guys a chance. You're playing with some thirty five

577
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: thirty six year old guys that are trying to run

578
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: up and down like that, right. So, so I was

579
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: just trying to figure that stuff out, work it out.

580
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: He was great, really patient, you know, a great teacher.

581
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: So work with him a lot. At the end of

582
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: my second year there, he came to me it was like, man,

583
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 1: you should go to Europe and try and make as

584
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: much as you can. That was kind of the already

585
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: kind of pushed me out the door, so to speak.

586
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: This time the Americans you played with with With Gorgion,

587
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: I had a guy named Daryl McDonald, he's very very

588
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: famous over the he's played there for about fifteen years.

589
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: And Jamal Moseley, who's now assistant coaching that's your guy,

590
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: so Jamama, Yeah, Jamal Mosley played for my dad from

591
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 1: San Diego, played for my dad in Au and then

592
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: obviously went to Colorado and now he's at some point

593
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: destined to be And it's it's really crazy, like I

594
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: was doing this thing with I have youth teams now

595
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: and and I was trying to tell these parents, like, look,

596
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: Cameron Sufi is an assistant with the Wizards. Like he

597
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: he we played together since like fourth grade. Miles Simes

598
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: and Sits with the Lakers, we played together sharing in

599
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: the fifth grade. Um, you started kind of going through

600
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: like Adam Jacobson is Casey Jacobson's brother, Casey is now

601
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: on TV like all of these guys. Adam Jacobson's an

602
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: assistant at Cal Baptist. Like so much of us, we

603
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: started playing basketball and you think now, granted it's different

604
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: now because everybody has in a team, you think there

605
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: was a lot of different teams and almost all of

606
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: the people that I play with are still involved in

607
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: basketball and some It's amazing, like how it becomes part

608
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: of your life and you end up making a career

609
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: out of it if you really really like it. Man,

610
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: for sure, Man, it's uh and and how many like

611
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: you say, come from one area, you know, it tends

612
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: to be like that a lot. Like you see people

613
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: that have connected like from the time they're very young,

614
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: and then they're still doing it, like like like Jamal

615
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: was just an incredibly hard worker, role player guy, and

616
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: you could tell like he was already thinking like a

617
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: coach right like all the time, right like he he

618
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: wasn't a he wasn't a me guy at all, right,

619
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: which isn't great to play as an import overseas, but

620
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: you're not really hard, really hard, Like it's so interesting

621
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: And what's into what I found interesting about it is

622
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: I feel like, and I think Australians especially but also

623
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: other Europeans, like they don't like the American style of

624
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: of of a little bit more me than we right,

625
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: Like it's just not how they want to play. On

626
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: the other hand, they want if you're coming in as

627
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: an American, you're expected to be able to get the

628
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: ball and go get buckets when they need to bucket.

629
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: So it's like, we don't really like the way you play,

630
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: but we know we need it in certain instances. So

631
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: you go be you and then you gotta fit in

632
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: with us the rest of the time. Man Like, like

633
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: they want you to be like that on the court,

634
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: and they want you to be like being as much

635
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: as you can off the court, and that's kind of

636
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of what they want because you know,

637
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: they're getting there you and there to do some things

638
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: that the guys on their team count. That's why they're

639
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: getting you there, So they're expecting you to be able

640
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: to do that. So, you know, I kind of saw

641
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: from Jamal that the enjoyment level for him wasn't the

642
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: same as what it was in college. I could see

643
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: that straightaway, just the expectations different. Whereas in college he

644
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: had such a good system coach all that he really

645
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it Beer Colorado as opposed to you know,

646
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: it's just hard, man. You know what it's like. You

647
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: play overseas. It's not easy. A couple of bad games. Man,

648
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: they're looking at you sideways, right, so I can everything.

649
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: It's a vacation. You got Australia. It's awesome. It's like

650
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: a vacation, Like yeah, no, you have to do a

651
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: job and they can send you home if they don't

652
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: like you. Very simple. So you played, you played in Greece.

653
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: The biggest question everybody asked. Somebody played in Greece, Did

654
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: you get all your money? Yeah? I did, man, because

655
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, I've always been lucky because I

656
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: played on kind of big teams. We always played in Europe, right,

657
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: so I kind of got lucky my first two years.

658
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: I played a fin about you in Turkey, so you know,

659
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: like and we had good teams there and I played well,

660
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: so I kind of never had to sit in that

661
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: tough spot until I got older. You know. I was

662
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: kind of thirty three thirty four where the money started

663
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: getting funny, but I had a good teen years over

664
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: there where it was it was pretty decent. Like I

665
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: heard the stories, but I never related myself to that

666
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: because I wasn't having to go through it. When I

667
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: played in Russia, not only did I get every penny,

668
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: but I actually left because I did a laker summer league.

669
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: I left and I had like they held me like

670
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars something, my like bonus from winning the

671
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: Russian League championship, and I had every friend I knew.

672
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: The basket was like, how could you leave without getting

673
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: your money? I was like, well, like the guy can

674
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: only give me nine thousand, nine hundred to bring back

675
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: in cash. And you know, like my wife had nine

676
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: thousand hundred, I had nine dollars. I was like what

677
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: everyone was left was somehow we had like seven thousand.

678
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: I was just like just wired to me, I just

679
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: want to get that. I want to go. And because

680
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: it was like mid June, because everything is pushed back

681
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: because the Olympic, because the Olympics. And sure enough, like

682
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: a week later, like popped up my bank account. They're like,

683
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: no way, Yeah, I got every penny that I was out.

684
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: But I heard the horror stories and I experienced a

685
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: little bit of it in Israel. They just did stupid

686
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: stuff in Israel with them with the money. Okay, the

687
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: coolest country you played in it was what Turkey? Yeah,

688
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: not the first person to say that. Why uh just man, man,

689
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: the people man, they love bull Um. You know, the

690
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: educated about basketball. The people over there are great. I

691
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: just liked that the food was awesome. And I was

692
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: young still then too, dug. You know it was only

693
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: twenty three years old. You're really young. You know, you

694
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: don't have kids, what all that you you just you know,

695
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: you're just trying to find your way and and and

696
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: and I think I got lucky going to the clubs

697
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: I went to, right the clubs I went to, We're

698
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: we're really good and well running, feeling like I about

699
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: missing out anywhere else, you know, um, and and and

700
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: we did well without ever winning the championship or whatever.

701
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: We did well. It was really enjoyable, um, you know.

702
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: And I felt like that's where I played my best right,

703
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: Like I was healthy for the years that I was there.

704
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: And that makes a huge difference. What who is your

705
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: coach there? I had three or four different coaches. They

706
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: tend to they tend to change. But the legend in

707
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: that club was a guy named died in Nurse. Right,

708
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: he's a very very famous coach. What how you said

709
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: I didn't urse? Yeah, and coach in England. He's speaking English?

710
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: Like what was he speaking? No, No, he's he's speaking English. Um,

711
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: he can speak great English. Uh. You know when I

712
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: when initially when I got there, I was the only foreigner.

713
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: Then when I first went there, the other foreigner was Serbian,

714
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: so you know, they don't Serves and Turks they didn't

715
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: like him either, so they were kind of looking at

716
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: me for a long time, like what am I like right,

717
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: but after a while, no problem they speak English with you,

718
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: because you know I've heard that no one over there

719
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: speak to English. The man, they spoke English once they

720
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: liked you. Man, it was just like anything else. The

721
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: coolest city in Turkey. Let's standbul I mean I like

722
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: Anchor too, but butter standbul Man is great. I lived

723
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: right in thin about you, right, beautiful beautiful place, man,

724
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: right on the waterfront. What favorite food. And I like

725
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: all the different soup man other be like in the

726
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: soup and brid but I remember the remember the coffee

727
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: in Turkey being unbelievable, Like I'm a big coffee guy.

728
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: Remember stop where they had that stuff. They're like heated

729
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: up on some like rocks or something. I don't yeah, yeah, yeah,

730
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: like people go crazy to the coffee beer. But like

731
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: like all this stuff. Man, I ate all the street

732
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: food there, which I never did anywhere else. You know,

733
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: like you know obviously you know the chicken kebabs. You know,

734
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: I just never seen any pork over there. Man, it's

735
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: been in a Muslim country. But everything else be chicken

736
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: lamb oh really good. Yeah. Oh you're so you're in

737
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: your mid thirties, right, yep, Your body is breaking down.

738
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: Where are you playing? I had my last year in

739
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: Greece then in a city called Tree Color, right, which

740
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: is probably three hours drive from from Athens, from a

741
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: coach that I played four or five or six years earlier.

742
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: And at that particular junction, man, I'm just hanging there

743
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: for a play check, right, Like, I'm like, look, man,

744
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: I can make more money doing this than anything else.

745
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: Right now, I know I want to get into coaching.

746
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: How do I do that? So I kind of had

747
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: that transition year, uh, and was hurt the whole year.

748
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: So I did play, but I just played in the games.

749
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: I didn't practice at all so hard. But because we

750
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: do get to an age where when you don't touch

751
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: a ball for a long time, when you start to

752
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: the first time you back, you make everything right, and

753
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: then's the second day back because you probably had that

754
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: without practicing, right, I'm feeling yeah, Well, well, I mean,

755
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, like if you're not trying to do too much.

756
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: You know, European basketball, especially as you get older. Man,

757
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: at that particular junction, they've gone from two imports each

758
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: tea and now you can have four. That that that's

759
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: kind of what happened and and and my ankles were

760
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: so bad that year. Look, I could probably take pills

761
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: or rejectures for the game to get through the game,

762
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: but there's no way I could practice day to day

763
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: or do any of that. So so I kind of

764
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: just tried to get through the season as best I

765
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: could and then plan what I do next. Were you

766
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: networking in in time and tiging your coach or was

767
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: this just kind of plan in your head? Just just

768
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: just to plan in my head? Um, you know, it's

769
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: really hard because I'd always wanted to coach in college

770
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: in America. You know, that was always my dream, right,

771
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: But it's just so hard to know where to start.

772
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, a whole lot of my friends were doing

773
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: that already, a lot of the people that mentored me,

774
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: and that that was what they were already doing. Um,

775
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: you know. And and and at the same time, my

776
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: kids are young now, you know, there are four, three

777
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: and one right, So I'm kind of in my mind,

778
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I'd love for them to see New Zealand,

779
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, where I grew up, because I knew if

780
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: I came back here and got into system straight away,

781
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: that's all they would have ever known, you know. They're

782
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: all born here in Vegas, which is not a bad

783
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: place to live at all, but you know, I definitely

784
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: wanted them to know where they're from, or where I'm

785
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: from at least, right, So you know, I started looking

786
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: at opportunities in New Zealand, which was which was kind

787
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: of different because there's not a whole lot of coaching

788
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: opportunities over there. So what you always your first coaching job,

789
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: first counting job, was in New Zealand. It was as

790
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: a director of development. So what that is is for

791
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: for that area, you're kind of in charge of anything

792
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: that's not the professional team, right, So, so any of

793
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: the age group, so from under tien, under eleven, under twelve,

794
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: under thirteen, you've got to try and find coaches and

795
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: and make sure that there working on the stuff that

796
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: you think they should be working on. And and I

797
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: coached every age group from under eight, under ten, under fourteen,

798
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: under eighteen, under twenty um. And I still played on

799
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: our ProTeam, and I was player coach at back team, right,

800
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: And I played pretty badly and coach relatively well when

801
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: I was on the sideline and vice versa. When I

802
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: was in the game, very very difficult to be a

803
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: player coach. Um is your player head coach? Yeah, yeah,

804
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: very very dream It sounded good, you know, like especially

805
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: when you start, you know, combined two jobs, I make

806
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: double money. Right. No, it's not really very simple, right

807
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: so so really really because the season in New Zealand

808
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: is only for four months of the year, so the

809
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: pro season, so we kind of play in between the

810
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: Australian season, so you know that's only for a short

811
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: period of time. My real job was coaching direct of

812
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: development in the area that I grew up the needed

813
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: what so, so like, do you did you still have

814
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: a passion like to go to the gym and work

815
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: with kids? Did you find yourself immediately passionately, like, man,

816
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: this is every day? Well, I guess I was luck

817
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: because I just got a group of kids where I

818
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: was from the love basketball, so they gave you the

819
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: energy to want to do it, you know, and they

820
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: were all different ages. There's probably forty or fifty of

821
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: them or from like eleven through to sixteen or seventeen

822
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: that really didn't have the aspirations but just love the game.

823
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: So you know, our school start at nine o'clock over there,

824
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: so in the morning. So so I kind of got

825
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: everyone in at six thirty and we started training for

826
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: a couple of hours. So that's kind of what gave

827
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: me the impetus to really want to do it right. Okay,

828
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: so six dur in the morning. How old were the kids?

829
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: All different ages, boys and girls from say twelve to

830
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: sixteen or seventeen. Okay, so what's your what's your philosophy

831
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: with say you got an hour? Got an hour? My

832
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: eleven year old sons right here, so I need it.

833
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: So you're you're you're get an hour with elevens and

834
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: twelve year olds? What do you want to focus on?

835
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: Or skill development? And then let him play for ten

836
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: minutes of the in you don't play until you know,

837
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: you don't play until all the skill development is done.

838
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: Most important skills you know, obviously shooting, passing, dribbling, you know.

839
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: So you just work on the same generic fundamentals that

840
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: you want everyone to work on. So you try and

841
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: get that over with. If you have two hours or

842
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: if you have an hour, you just break it down

843
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: so that you don't ever let them play to the

844
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: point whereby they feel like they're coming every day to

845
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: play that's for their own team or their own coach

846
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: on their own time, right, becoming there to work on

847
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: their game and try and get better. So you know

848
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: that that was really the change and what I wanted

849
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: to stress because you know, most of the teams that

850
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: I've ever been on, the coach just talks about what

851
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: the team is running and what the team is doing

852
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: and executing and all that. I kind of went all

853
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: the other way and was like, I don't care what

854
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna run, but I want everyone be able to shoot,

855
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: dribble and past, so you have the requisite skills. I

856
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: think when I started first started coaching kids, um, you

857
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: get super frustrated by you tell them to do things

858
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: and they don't do it. But then you start to realize, like, hey,

859
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: did I actually coach those things to you? I teach

860
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: you how to do it. So the the process of

861
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: like breaking things down and and so now what I've

862
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: kind of taken to and I've always done this a

863
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: little bit as a broadcaster, but pointing out when I

864
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: first got into broadcasting, and there's a guy named Danced

865
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: here and then hired me, and he hired friend for

866
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: schilla um and he said, you know, look that what

867
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: you do is analysts. You gotta answer the question why right,

868
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: For there's a lot of people that tell you what,

869
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: but you don't need to see what. Everybody has a television.

870
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: They can see what just happened. Oh that's a great dunk. Yeah,

871
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: no ship? Right? How did he get open? Why? Where

872
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: is the mistake of all the stuff that when we

873
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: watch film as players and coaches or as a coach,

874
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: like we point things out, how can you do that

875
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: in a concise fashion? Well, so I started doing that

876
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: with kids, which is like when you do you do

877
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: the fundamental drills, then you do something bigger, and then

878
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: you blow the whistle when they when something happens. For example,

879
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: we do a drill and my dad always taught called

880
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: monkey in the middle, right, very simple, fift ft apart.

881
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: One guy in the middle. He's challenging the ball, you're

882
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: faking a pass and making a pass. Right. But so

883
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: oftentimes we get you get into you're playing against the

884
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: defense and a kid gets it on the wing and

885
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: he's got somebody cutting into the post or standing open,

886
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: and you've got to blow the whistle. And you say,

887
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: this is why we did monkey in the middle. There's

888
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: a defender in between you, and then where you want

889
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: to throw the basketball, and you can't just throw it

890
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: straight away. You gotta big high and throw low. And

891
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: so I think I totally agree with you. It's like

892
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: the it's like the fundamentals are the fundamentals, like they're

893
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: there for a reason. And so oftentimes we you're torn

894
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: because you want to have the fun workout. But the fun,

895
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: the fun comes from when you actually can master the

896
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: rout dimensional skills. And that's a that's a hard thing

897
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: for It's a hard thing for little kids. You know.

898
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you just gotta trust me. You do

899
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: this passing, catching and cutting, the actual playing stuff gets

900
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: way easy, yeah, man, And and and and like you said, man,

901
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: most kids nowaday they want it immediately, right, And the

902
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: fundamentals do not come immediately, they say so. So it's

903
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: just it's just trying to make that process fun, you know. Uh.

904
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: And young people make it fun, man, They make it

905
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: fun for you because they get so much enjoyment out

906
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: of just playing. You know, as you as you get older,

907
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: that that stands to be the first thing to go

908
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: when it becomes a job. Right. Whereas when you're around

909
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: young people, man, they keep you young. That's a great point.

910
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: And it's something that I felt when I was in

911
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: when I played profession, which is like I wanted to win.

912
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm a competitor. I want to win every game. Okay,

913
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not. It doesn't you don't lose your

914
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: competitive drive. But I do feel like it became like

915
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: a job, whereas in college every game I lost, like

916
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: I was devastated by. It wasn't just for me, it

917
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: was for all of us, you know, for your coach,

918
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: for your school, for your teammates, Like there was and

919
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: there was a true joy in playing. I didn't necessarily

920
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: have the joy and practicing, you know, like you know

921
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: it gets get the college practice at the way oh

922
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: we used to go forever. But I do think the

923
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: joy of playing is something that you have to find

924
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: a way to to uh facilitate the the growth up right,

925
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: So it is still fun, right And and that's a

926
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: that's okay. So here's the question. When you're player coach

927
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: in New Zealand, you know, when you guys would lose,

928
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: would you be critical of yourself? Like how do you

929
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: how do you do you guys call you coach, the

930
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: guys call you Mark, Like what was like that really

931
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: interesting here. Yeah, it was it. Look, it was it

932
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: was just awkward or around, right, So it was awkward

933
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: all around because coach, you won championships. Now it's not

934
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: it did it seemed to work for him? Yeah. The

935
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: difference is, man, like, this is where I worked out

936
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: that you can't do it very well. Right, is that

937
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: in our position, you're out the front, you don't see

938
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: anything that's going on. You know, Bill Russell's position, he's

939
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: at the back. He can communicate and tell everyone what's

940
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: going on. He can actually see who's doing their job.

941
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: I have no idea behind me who was doing what.

942
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: So when I'm looking at film after the game, then

943
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, I can see where oviousing up.

944
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: Now that makes perfect sense. But during the game, you know,

945
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: it just it comes hard. So you know, obviously had

946
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: assistant coaches on the side line helping me in that,

947
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: but you know, they don't want to overstep their bounds

948
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 1: and try and tell you what because you're like, you're

949
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: like the legend. Like the last thing they want to

950
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: do is tell Mark Tickle what he didn't see, right,

951
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: which was probably a lot. But yeah, look, there was

952
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: definitely a part of that. So like, you know, the

953
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: first couple of years I played a lot. The third

954
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: year I hardly played. Man. I just tried to do

955
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: the job as best I could. Um, Okay, so you

956
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: get done. Um by the way you played in look

957
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: a motive, right, you played it was cool, It was cool.

958
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: I just should have never left Turkey, man, I should

959
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: have just never left. Yeah. Well, you know it's you

960
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: know what it's like. It's so hard to get a

961
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: reputation where you've proved yourself and you don't feel like anymore.

962
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: On a couple of bad games you can be out, um,

963
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: you know, and you had done yeah, and and like

964
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: I've done well enough to wear by. Now, I wasn't

965
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: doubling my money by going to Russia. That didn't make

966
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: a whole lot of sense, right, So you know, I

967
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: just live. The advice I had at the time kind

968
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: of swayed me a little bit. I mean, I don't

969
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: regret going to Russia. A great experience in that, but

970
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: from my wife Ashley, kids in that, I mean we

971
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: would have fid rather state in Turkey. Okay. Um, your

972
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: first national team state was with the Albanian national team. Now,

973
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: yere's what I think about Albania. I thought that was

974
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: the place everybody had the fake passports, yeah right, and

975
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: I could get an Israeli passport. But other guys, like

976
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: I had a buddy I played with the college and

977
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: he has an Albanian pastors, like, well, how the Albani

978
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: pastors Like, man, it's twenty grand you get Albanian past

979
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: work and you can play, as you already know, right,

980
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: So did you have any Albanians or did you have Americans?

981
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: Who did you have in your team? I mean we

982
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: had we had a whole mix. Man, we had you know,

983
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: like like a whole lot of the players throughout Europe

984
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: had Albanian ancestry appearance, right, So you know, it was

985
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: it was interesting. We only had three players on our

986
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: national team that were born and raised there. All the

987
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: rest of them professionally outside either in Turkey, you know, Greece, Russia, Italy.

988
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: A lot of Albania's play in Italy, um and the

989
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: lower levels over there. So really interesting. I mean, the

990
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: interesting most interesting part about that is that you know,

991
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: I was playing in Greece at the time, and and

992
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: I was still playing in Europe, and we played the

993
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: Albanian national team, and like a practice game before the

994
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: playoffs start, and and and they came right up to

995
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: be after the game. He said, do you want to

996
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: play on our team? So I was like, sure, I'll

997
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: play right, Like obviously, if the money's right, I'll come

998
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: and play. You know. Like at that time, I hadn't

999
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: played on the New Zealand national team for three years,

1000
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: so naturally you can play for another association. So I

1001
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: went over there. I came to find out I can't

1002
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 1: play on their national team and coach and the head

1003
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: coach just quit and said you can do it, right,

1004
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: So I was like, okay. So that was kind of

1005
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: how I got the first gig. It wasn't planned. I

1006
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: didn't go over there with the thought of coaching. They

1007
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: kind of just sit here, man, go ahead and do it.

1008
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: So okay. So when you're coaching, did you just run

1009
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: some of the system stuff that you ran in Greece,

1010
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: some of the stuff you like in Turkey, some of

1011
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: your own stuff? How did you formulate what you want

1012
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: to do? Man? I just stand whatever I had thought

1013
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: worked previously, or that other people have done against me

1014
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: that have worked, or that you know, like just tried

1015
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: to steal everything I could from the other coaches and

1016
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 1: they're like, what, so, so your your style as a coach,

1017
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: and granted, obviously you gotta fit it to the team

1018
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: and to the personnel you have. Okay, so like like veno,

1019
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: now let's start with them, because it's interesting I've evolved

1020
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: as well, Like, okay, what I used to do, man,

1021
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: most definitely, Well look, look, man, I I kind of thought,

1022
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, and keep in mind, I was thirty four then, right,

1023
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: so I kind of thought, then, man, I wanna I

1024
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: want to play through the bigs. We had good bigs, right,

1025
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,479
Speaker 1: I was slowing down because we don't have a whole

1026
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: lot of good God play, right, Like this was personnel

1027
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: driven what I was thinking. Um, And that's kind of

1028
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: how everyone in York played, man, you know, like no

1029
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: one was on the playing up tempo or planned like that.

1030
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: It was, you know, protect the ball, try and keep

1031
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: the score in the fifties or the sixties, trying out

1032
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: defend them, play a lot of zone. Um. So I

1033
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: just kind of fell in line with that. And we

1034
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: played in EuroBasket B Division, so we didn't play any

1035
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: of the top teams, so we didn't play Italy Greased

1036
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: any of that. We were playing Cypress or Switzerland or

1037
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, good teams, don't get me wrong, but you

1038
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: can compete with them, especially with the players we had,

1039
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: so so I didn't really want to make it too difficult.

1040
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: We we had really good talent, we just weren't that organized.

1041
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: So now I just try to slow it down and

1042
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: play through our beds. We had three seven footers that

1043
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: could all play and shoot. If the guards played too fast,

1044
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: they quit and would walk up and down the court.

1045
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: So I kind of had to playcate them a little bit.

1046
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: And man, we had some success, man, but it's just

1047
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: not easy in Albania trying to replicate anything. Everything changes, man,

1048
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: like overnight, you know, like you think it's one way,

1049
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: and the next day you wake up and that players

1050
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: gone and there's another player in. Right, It's just a

1051
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: it's just a different control over his coach. Man. They like,

1052
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: uh like control what what? What are that control? In Albania,

1053
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: I controlled what time I got to the gym. I

1054
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: controlled what we did once I got to the gym,

1055
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: and I controlled who came in and out of the game.

1056
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: Other than the hid, I was just uh following orders. Man,

1057
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: that's a different place. Okay, Um, your most recent stint

1058
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: was with the Filipino national team, right, yes, what was it?

1059
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: Because I know there's an incredible passion for basketball, but

1060
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: they just have no size. They just have no Like

1061
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: Jordan Clarkston's like the only thing, right they hope they

1062
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: can get him back to come play. Like what was

1063
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: how did you? How did you get that game? Well?

1064
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: Three and a half years ago. Um, you know kind

1065
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: of kind of was outgrowing New Zealand started looking opportunities elsewhere, right,

1066
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: so you know, I got the opportunity two or three

1067
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: quarter years ago to go to Manila and coach a

1068
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: protein over there. Talking text, Bano had actually coached that

1069
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: team in two thousand and three, so that was kind

1070
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: of the connect with the with the team over there. Um, yes,

1071
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: so so went over there. Our team was really successful

1072
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: outside of winning winning the championship, which is very very

1073
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: difficult to do over there. I mean there's so many

1074
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: there's so many talented players and talented teams, but just

1075
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: like you said, no size, you know, and especially internationally,

1076
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: that's what what traditionally holds them back. So usually what

1077
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: happens is they naturalized a big guy, right, so you know,

1078
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: previously the big guy they naturalized was Andre Blatch, but

1079
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: he actually retired or they said he's no longer on

1080
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: the team when I got the job, so we just

1081
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 1: went with straight Filipinos. We have one young Filipino who's

1082
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 1: over playing with the G League Select team, Kais Soto,

1083
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: who's pretty talented, right, but he's kind of an old

1084
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: school big right. He's kind of like not really that athletic,

1085
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: but can really play really skilled. But he didn't play

1086
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: on the national team with me when I was there,

1087
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: so you know, we didn't we didn't have a whole

1088
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: lot of size. Were just parted quick, uh, you know,

1089
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: put five shooters on the court and spread everyone out

1090
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: and try and take advantage of the of the opportunities

1091
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: we get. Give me your craziest Philippine story. Well, just

1092
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: my first day there, man, that the you know, like

1093
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: I've obviously been in places where the traffic is bad, right,

1094
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: but but so I get there at like five o'clock

1095
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 1: at night on a Friday, and it takes me five

1096
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: and a half hours to get to the place I'm

1097
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: staying yet and it should take about twenty minutes eight

1098
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: five and a half hours and steven twenty minutes, and

1099
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: it should have taken about twenty minutes. It took me

1100
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: five hours to get and and that was when I

1101
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I don't know if I can deal

1102
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: with this place. I'm not going to tell my wife

1103
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: Ashley about this traffic because she will not want to.

1104
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: You know, it was like that one, right, it was

1105
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. And we didn't move that

1106
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking, we didn't move so like you know, I

1107
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: could have got out and walked it in an hour

1108
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: and a half, right, Like, it's like that type of thing.

1109
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: And the people are everywhere and no what he adheres

1110
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: to any rules regarding traffic, right, they just go That

1111
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: reminds me like Russia, remember Russia. Like Russia, you go

1112
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: to like McDonald's Moscow and there were no lines, no rules.

1113
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: I just felt like in Russia there was no real rules.

1114
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: They like it. It just cuts in, right, like the

1115
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: whole suggestion that everything was just suggestions. It's like stop signs,

1116
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: basic rules, anything, just a suggestion. You know you have money,

1117
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 1: Oh that's it's totally different if you have money, you know, right,

1118
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: it's an amazing like we live in, this is the

1119
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: same universe I live in now, did many pack you'll

1120
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: ever show to try and work out with you guys. No,

1121
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: but I did see him in a couple of games

1122
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: and that I mean, he just love to see a

1123
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: guard over there. They love basketball over there. It's like

1124
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: it's what they know, man and like. And it's really

1125
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: interesting because they're not suited for that game at all, right,

1126
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: like you know, body type was I mean there should

1127
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: be really soccer or football or something like that, right,

1128
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: But but they really educated in it too, and great fans, um,

1129
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: you know, like the p b A over there that

1130
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 1: I coached in the Pro League, great league, really good

1131
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: players you know, have been a long time running now

1132
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: it was good man like, really good basketball education. But

1133
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,919
Speaker 1: but two and a half three years was long enough. Yeah,

1134
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: that's okay. So now what now? Well, Ma'm I'm just

1135
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: trying to get on something over here. Um. You know,

1136
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: I felt like, you know, I'm kind of teen years

1137
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: into this coaching thing now and four Um, you know,

1138
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 1: I see a whole lot of my friends and colleagues

1139
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: and that guys I played with are over here excelling, right.

1140
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: You know, I'm kind of really proud of them, but

1141
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: but want to get amongst it. Man, you know, I

1142
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: think I have a lot to offer. Um, yeah, it

1143
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: just it just loved the game. Um, you know, I

1144
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: I watched as much as I've seen so many different angles.

1145
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you coached, but you know this from playing,

1146
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 1: Like if you played, and you played in all these

1147
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: different countries and all these different systems. Like it's like

1148
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: then when when Nash got the job, when people are

1149
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: like questioning, like, well, he hasn't coached before, Like have

1150
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: you ever played point guard? Why was that? Why did

1151
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: he get all that height? What was that about? Like

1152
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: if there's anyone who's born to coach, if there's anyone

1153
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: for the last thirty years, you would look at me like, dude,

1154
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 1: it looks like he's coaching the team down there, because

1155
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: you are like, it's so different than football, right, and look,

1156
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: I think quarterbacks could do it, but quarterbacks they have

1157
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: different meeting rooms than everybody else. Like there's five guys

1158
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: and you can't hear your coach most of the time, right,

1159
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: and you barely guys barely pay attention to their coach.

1160
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: The point guard is everything and the idea that like,

1161
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: well you know you have to have. Don't get me wrong,

1162
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: there's lots of administrative stuff that you don't know how

1163
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: to do, okay, and you have to learn. I think

1164
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 1: substituting is an art. But I think most point guards

1165
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: know who should be in and who should be out.

1166
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: And you can look at a guy know if he's

1167
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: gassed and he's tired. You know. But it's more administrative stuff.

1168
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 1: And in college it's about recruiting and boosters and the

1169
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: other ship. But the actual basketball stuff, like, dude, that's

1170
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: a rat. You know, I've seen this fifteen times over.

1171
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: I know exactly, I've seen this puzzle. I know I

1172
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: know the answer to it. Right, That's what That's what

1173
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: it feels like. The harder part is getting the kid

1174
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: who hasn't seen enough to instantly react. How do I

1175
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: teach him so that he instantly reacts? You know? My

1176
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: My my issue is and and you know, sometimes you

1177
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: have a guy who's a long time assistant coach, well

1178
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: he's been a long time since coach. We're like, look,

1179
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: if you sat there, you have a lot of ideas,

1180
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: but you've never put him in play, and you've only

1181
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: seen it from the perspective of your system. Whereas if

1182
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: you've played, like I, how many how many do you

1183
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: know how many countries you played in maybe eight or nine, Okay,

1184
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: and then how many different coaches, right, and everybody sees

1185
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 1: and and though you don't agree with most of the ship,

1186
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: they tell you learn something from every guy. Are you Like, Oh,

1187
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: I never I didn't think of that. Like that was

1188
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. And like you said, like

1189
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: all the stuff that work do you want to do,

1190
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: all the stuff that didn't work you don't want to do,

1191
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: and the stuff that you do, and then you try

1192
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: and coach the way you want to be coached, and

1193
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't because it depends

1194
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: upon the kid. But I agree with like, even without

1195
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: all of your coaching, like you've lived fifty different basketball

1196
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: lives as opposed to most guys. I think the problem

1197
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: you'll run into is in the college game. You know,

1198
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: it's so much of it's about basketball families now, So

1199
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: some some Aussies may help you, right, because New Zealanders

1200
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: are like you guys are like cousins, rights. I mean,

1201
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: they may hook up. But what I found in the

1202
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: college game is it's a lot of your head coach

1203
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: is the head of the patriarch of the basketball family,

1204
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: and those are all your connections, whereas you know, Keeps

1205
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: in the NBA and Billy before he took a breaks

1206
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: in the NBA, and you guys are kind of in

1207
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: the NBA, and you guys are kind of in the NBA.

1208
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: So that's where it's it's weird. It's like it's not

1209
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: necessarily on merit more who you know and what basketball family. Yeah, look, look, man,

1210
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: I'm well aware of what you're saying it right, but

1211
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: my my kind of feeling is, man, I'll just do

1212
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: whatever I gotta do to get an opportunity, and if

1213
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: I get an opportunity, once I do, it's gonna be

1214
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: a rep and I'll just take my opportunity and run

1215
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: with it. You know. It's it's interesting. I had a

1216
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: conversation with Dan Docket, who is a former coach now

1217
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: broadcaster on the show, and we were talking about and

1218
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: this is where it's perfectly to me and you is

1219
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: you don't have a point guard college basketball, it's gonna

1220
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: make you look like a bad coach, even if you're not.

1221
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: You look at a lot of these teams that are

1222
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: struggling this year. Duke's point guard play not good. Then off,

1223
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: there's really the NBA Draft Kansas. I don't know why

1224
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: Dotson left for the NBA draft. Uh, you know, Michigan State,

1225
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: you lose an all time great point guard leader, You

1226
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: don't have it. What is it like for you to

1227
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: try and teach somebody to be you? Right, you were

1228
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: a leader, you're a you're the consummate, and you sacrifice

1229
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: your scoring for your team. How what is that process

1230
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: like for you to try and teach somebody to do

1231
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: the subtle things that you instinctively knew how to do

1232
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: for twenty years a pro day Just personality man personality

1233
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: traits is huge, right, Like, like is he inherently unselfish?

1234
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: And if he is, it's going to be easy to

1235
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: make that guy understand exactly why you should be unselfish.

1236
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 1: And you know, the problem nowadays you find is there's

1237
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: so many people think they're scoring points right, or so

1238
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: many people evaluate their successage game based off how many

1239
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: points they get right. So you know, it's the game's

1240
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: changing all the time. But the idea that the player

1241
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: with the board is going to make the game easier

1242
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: if everyone else is still strong, right, So how do

1243
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: you get people, you know, how do you get players

1244
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: to understand that you know you're actually sacrificing for everyone else.

1245
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: But trust me, the players, sorry, the coaches that know

1246
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: will know that it's you out there doing good stuff. Right. So,

1247
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: so how do you get a player to understand that

1248
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 1: million hours of film and evaluating each and every practice

1249
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: and watching film with them, watching every game, watching every

1250
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: basketball game you get with them of somebody else and

1251
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: eventually it clicks in. If you don't have that time

1252
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: with that person, it's really hot. Well that's I think

1253
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: that the hardest part about college is a limit the

1254
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: amount of time we have with guys. And people think

1255
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: it's protecting the players, but it's not. It's actually hurting

1256
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: the players development in many ways. There's is there a

1257
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: smart way to do it? It's interesting you point out

1258
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: the ability to make people better, like that's what makes

1259
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: somebody a great players. You make everybody else kind of

1260
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: around you, uh better, You learn about other people and

1261
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: personality traits are fantastic way to kind of um evaluate that.

1262
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: It is frustrating that when you I'm sure you've experienced this,

1263
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: when you see something and you know what's coming, you

1264
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: know what happens, and the player you're coaching is like

1265
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: a second late and doesn't see it, Like, how can

1266
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: you not? It's just you know what I mean, because

1267
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 1: I would guess that you and I view the basketball

1268
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: like a play the exact same way, right. I know

1269
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: that I'm reading the idea to play as this guy

1270
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: coming off of a player screen, but the second his

1271
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: man hedges out, I know the slip is gonna be open.

1272
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 1: I know exactly what I have to throw the ball.

1273
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: And I think that I always thought that like everybody

1274
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: sees it. Then you start coaching, you're like, no, you

1275
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: didn't see it at all, did you? Like, no, I

1276
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: have no idea I missed it. Or by the time

1277
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: they see it's too late and you know it's too

1278
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: late in stolen. That's the part that I find to

1279
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: be to be the most kind of tenuous, a really interesting,

1280
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: because like I had so many debates I call them

1281
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: debates with the players because they're not arguments, right because

1282
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: he might have to seeing something different. But the reality

1283
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: is oftentimes they're looking at that downscreen to occupy the

1284
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: other two players on the weak side of the court

1285
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: so they could take their player one on one. They're

1286
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: not even really looking at the play or hoping the

1287
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: play of you know develops like like, it's really interesting.

1288
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: When you see what the players see, you're able to

1289
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: work out how far they're gonna go. Right, Like, uh,

1290
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, like you go and watch an eight or

1291
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: a nine year old kid that can see the court, man,

1292
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that kid's gonna be really good. I

1293
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: don't care if you girls or not. Right, So, you know,

1294
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,439
Speaker 1: passing is kind of a lost art. But I don't

1295
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: really know how you take it either, right, Like, it's

1296
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: a really really hard, really hard, really hard. I think

1297
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: you have to one you have to give them the

1298
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: fundamentals of and and and hone them right every pass.

1299
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: At first, they have to be able to throw a

1300
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: chest pass. They have to be able pass either hand.

1301
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: They have to be able to use bounced pass. They

1302
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: have to be able to throw a baseball pass and

1303
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: hook past whenever. And then you have to kind of

1304
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: show them a little bit and then you know, then

1305
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: they have to see it. The problem I found is

1306
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: that they don't. I used to watch game. I used

1307
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: to come home and watch the Big East because I

1308
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: grew up in California and the Big East was on

1309
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: at four o'clock every Monday, Big Monday right. So I

1310
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 1: watch all these dudes, a little lot of West Coast

1311
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: guys when you're watching them. So I came on, I

1312
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: watch and then I go and shoot outside, right, or

1313
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: I go to practice whatever. And kids I don't they

1314
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: don't watch games nearly as much. They'll watch highlights and

1315
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: stuff on the phone, you know. So I got a

1316
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: text today from my son where he saw this on

1317
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: TikTok some way to beat his own and it's kind

1318
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 1: of what I've been telling him. But it's the first

1319
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: time he's ever shared with me a video. And I

1320
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: was like, I was like almost in tears, like this

1321
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: is beautiful. It's beautiful. Believe it. You believe Um? Okay,

1322
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: dream scenario for you in five years you're ware doing what? Man,

1323
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: I'll be a head coach of a college team somewhere.

1324
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: That would be a dream scenario. I mean, are you

1325
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: gonna be like you guys can be like St. Mary's

1326
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: bringing a bunch of possis and a bunch of tall

1327
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: blacks in there, or are you gonna I'm gonna have

1328
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: some fellas too. I'm gonna have people from all around

1329
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: the world. Man, Turkeys connection that that that's not an issue. Man,

1330
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: I got people over the day that are itching to come,

1331
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, to me. To me, it's you know, with

1332
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: the way the rules are now, and you can just

1333
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: transfer people in. I mean, there's no excuse to not

1334
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: be great every year. I mean, like, if your programs

1335
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: right and they can see that what you're doing is successful.

1336
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: When you're tuning pros out, meaning as either going to

1337
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: the NBA or overseas, why would they not want to come, right,

1338
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: You don't have to sit out a year anymore. I mean,

1339
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 1: there's really no excuse to be bad one year and

1340
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: bad the knicks, right, they're kind of taking those excuses out. Now. Well,

1341
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: we'll wait till you get your own head coaching job

1342
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: and we'll see if you agree with that. I do agree,

1343
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: But again you come up short in a point guard.

1344
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: Dude gets hurt, You got kicked out of school, guy

1345
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: leaves really for the pros you didn't expect, Like there's

1346
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: all kinds of all kinds of all kinds of craziness.

1347
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: Or you signed a guy and then he gets off

1348
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: of the pro con. You signed a foreign kid and

1349
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: he signs a pro contract, you know, to to to

1350
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: stay home. Um, Okay, A couple of a a couple of

1351
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: go on. The best player you ever played against could

1352
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: be anywhere anywhere in the world. The guy who's just

1353
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: like that guy wore me out kill al Amine and

1354
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: in Turkey he got me a few times. And I

1355
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: didn't really like it that much because I thought he

1356
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: was fat He I gotta be honest, he's fatally good,

1357
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: but I'm not. But you know, and it kind of

1358
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: hurt my feelings because that's the only thing I wasn't right.

1359
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: So so but he was just really clever, really good

1360
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: and and he talks ship the whole time too, so

1361
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: it just made it worse, right, But uh, but but

1362
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: he was really good. He was great in Europe. He

1363
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: should have been a tenure NBA guy. I thought he

1364
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: was super talented. Um who else was good? Okay? I've

1365
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: been told like in Australia, you know, you you you

1366
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: go and you play ball and then you go get piste, right,

1367
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: you get go drinks and you have a great time.

1368
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: Is the mentality the same for New Zealanders as this

1369
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: for us Man completely So I'm not a drinker, never

1370
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: been a drinker, so that's not my thing. But yeah,

1371
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: that's completely Like there's two games it's a game on

1372
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: the court and then there's a game afterwards, so they're

1373
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: trying to win both of them. Right. But but this

1374
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: is also culturally what makes it so enjoyable to play

1375
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: there is that both play. You know, players on both

1376
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: teams are all cool. There's not the animosity or hatred

1377
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: or envy or any of that. They you know, play

1378
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: hard in the game and then have fun. Offer, Um,

1379
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: did you think mellow ball would be this this impactful this? Yes,

1380
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 1: I thought he'd be. I thought he'd do better than

1381
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 1: what he is. Okay, really passed. But what's his gift.

1382
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: His gift is passing gifts. And he's huge, he's six eight,

1383
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: so he can see over the defense. So it's just

1384
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 1: the manner of opportunities. When when I saw him play

1385
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: in the Australian League, the first thing I noticed is

1386
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: man he sees over the top of the he sees everything.

1387
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: If he can never hit a shot consistently, Maneko is

1388
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: going to be unguttable, right And and I didn't think

1389
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: his defense would be as good as what it has

1390
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: been in the NBA because he was really bad in

1391
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: Australia comparatively. That was my problem with him. Was like

1392
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: there was nothing there. Defensively, Now, he also avoided contact

1393
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: a lot when he drove, but he's a better The

1394
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: problem that his brother had was brother was a bad shooter,

1395
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: but also a terrible finisher. And he's actually a pretty

1396
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: good finisher. And he knows how he used his body.

1397
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: He's got he's got a little bit more kind of

1398
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: shipped to him, you know what I mean. And he's

1399
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: the youngest Doug, he's the youngest man. So he you're coming, man.

1400
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: He's been sitting there watching everything. And he's smart. He's

1401
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent. I heard that from the players that he

1402
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: played with the Nila Wara Australia, Like really smart, studies,

1403
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: film works hard. Not an ego guy, right, like cool right,

1404
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: So I kind of thought he'd do what he's doing,

1405
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, I'm not surprised at all. Um. Okay,

1406
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: last thing, Um, what was the coolest Vegas moment? You're

1407
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: in Vegas. You mentioned you're coaching the Filipino Anasta team

1408
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: and coaching and protein so pakia was that was that games?

1409
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: But in Vegas when you guys were good, it was

1410
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: you guys are like the lakers of the town. It's

1411
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: a who's who at big games or maybe when you

1412
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,520
Speaker 1: went out of night. Just give me one cool Vegas story,

1413
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 1: A man, there's so many, right, all right? So we're

1414
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: at the hard Rock Hotel after we play a game

1415
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: and always circle ball. I'm we're there, right, And I

1416
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: live right behind here at the Paradise Bay Club at

1417
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: the time too. And I think I was only nineteen

1418
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: at the time, which is neither here nor there, right,

1419
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: And I looked like I was about twelve when I

1420
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 1: was nineteen, So I don't know why I was in there,

1421
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: but I can remember being in there, and and I

1422
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 1: forget who I was with someone from the team, and

1423
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 1: he tapped me on my shoulder and he was like, hey, look,

1424
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:20,759
Speaker 1: I think that guy over there looks like Tom Cruise,

1425
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: but he's way too short to be Tom Cruise, right,

1426
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: And so I looked over it. And you gotta remember,

1427
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 1: there's no internet enough back then. How would we know

1428
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: how tall dude is. He looks tall at the movies, right,

1429
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: like Top Gun and Daddy's playing tall. So I looked

1430
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: over at him and there's two bodyguards deal with him.

1431
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: So I was like, dude, I think I think that's right.

1432
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: I think, I think that's Tom Cruise. So I'd go

1433
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: right over to him and I try to go near him,

1434
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: and they stopped being going near him. So that's when

1435
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, that's Tom Cruise. And I just

1436
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that he was out there where we were

1437
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: and that the dudes only like five two or five three.

1438
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it was that way. He's not

1439
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: that small man, he's short man. He was sure too,

1440
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: five three, that's that's hey. Hey. When I looked at him,

1441
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: the first thing I thought was there's no way that

1442
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: he could be in movies and all that, you know

1443
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, that's short maybe five five. Look,

1444
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: anyone who's under five nine to me looks really short,

1445
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: right like, like I look straight away, and I was like, damn,

1446
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: that's that's really Tom Cruise. And he was maybe the

1447
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: biggest movie star on the planet and he's just walking

1448
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: around like you are. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. Okay,

1449
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 1: we're going to We're gonna take maybe a week, okay,

1450
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: and I want you to do take some notes on

1451
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: some college hoop guys you want to talk about and

1452
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: m B A NBA Steff want to talk about and

1453
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: this one's about you, and the next one we'll just

1454
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: talk ball about what's going on. It's like cool man, awesome, man,

1455
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: it's to man whenever with it all right? Great. I

1456
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: really appreciate you join us. I look forward to find

1457
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: out what's next. Take care of that back and those kiddos,

1458
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: and let's talk soon. Man, Thanks a lot, buddy. We'll

1459
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 1: talk later. Okay, thanks man, Thanks bro. Okay, that's it

1460
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: from my talk with Mark Mark Dicko. Will will pump

1461
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: another one of these here and the weekend to give

1462
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,759
Speaker 1: you kind of the landscape of Ward college basketball sites,

1463
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: especially as we get ready for March. In the meantime,

1464
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,719
Speaker 1: remember listening to Doug Alip Show three to six Eastern

1465
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,719
Speaker 1: time or twelve and three Pacific on your Fox Sports

1466
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,679
Speaker 1: radio station, your I Heart Radio, Apple or you download

1467
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: this podcast. You can download that one in the meantime.

1468
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review

1469
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: something like that. No, download, subscribe and rate, and if

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01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: you write a review too, I might get a little

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01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 1: bit more money out. Thanks so much for listening. I'm

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01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlip. This is all ball