Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham and tonight I've got Josh Boyd in
Speaker 1: the house. Welcome to the show, Josh.
Speaker 2: Thanks Dirk, it's good to be chatting with you again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys might remember Josh from episode seventy five.
Speaker 1: That's where I referred to Josh as the Elk Master.
Speaker 1: We've kind of dove pretty deep in on his bio
Speaker 1: and his persona of being an elk hunting mountain man
Speaker 1: type of machine. But tonight I want to have Josh
Speaker 1: on here just to say, you know, he's not a
Speaker 1: one trick pony, Josh. You know he likes to hunt
Speaker 1: bears too, and you know he lives in the beautiful
Speaker 1: state of Montana. And I just thought i'd kind of
Speaker 1: Picki's brain a little bit about it. You know, it's
Speaker 1: spring is in the air. Spring is kind of sprung
Speaker 1: about everywhere in the West. I think, what's it. What's
Speaker 1: it doing up where you're at?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely sprung. Things are getting really green. I
Speaker 2: was just noticing today I was out at work and
Speaker 2: the hillside, the lower hillsides are greening up. A lot
Speaker 2: of flowers are popping a lot of green grass. The
Speaker 2: snow linees moving up quite a bit, and yeah, spring
Speaker 2: is here. As a matter of fact, yesterday, yesterday at work,
Speaker 2: was the my final day of snow surveys. So that
Speaker 2: always for me marks the beginning of spring bear season.
Speaker 2: When I knock out the end of the end of
Speaker 2: April snow surveys, it's like, all right, it's time to
Speaker 2: start thinking about bears. Yeah, yeah, it's nice. We got
Speaker 2: a lot of rain. Things are greening up today. It's
Speaker 2: going to be like popping really really hardcore here in
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think you're ahead of schedule this year
Speaker 1: springtime or you like normal, you think, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're way ahead. I'd say we're at least three
Speaker 2: weeks ahead of our normal melt out. From what I've seen,
Speaker 2: the snow pack numbers are showing that the snow line is,
Speaker 2: you know, showing that at the elevation that you know
Speaker 2: you look at up on the mountain side, I'm seeing snow.
Speaker 2: I can look out my window and see the snow
Speaker 2: line on the mountains over there, and that's where I'm
Speaker 2: seeing it right now. Is typically like probably the second
Speaker 2: week of May would be more normal to where it
Speaker 2: to what it is right now, you know, So we're
Speaker 2: we're definitely a couple of weeks advanced snow melt, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've been talking to people other places of the
Speaker 1: Northwest and they had kind of the same same thought
Speaker 1: that we're a little bit ahead of schedule. In fact,
Speaker 1: Phelps and I were out in Kansas turkey hunting here
Speaker 1: last week, and even back there, things are are more
Speaker 1: progressed than normal. It's just seemed like we've been there.
Speaker 1: Typically we go out there turkey hunting like May, middle
Speaker 1: of May to late May, and you know, the green
Speaker 1: up and everything is about what it is right now.
Speaker 1: In fact, we were finding turkey nests with eggs in
Speaker 1: them already, and then then the toms weren't all hend up,
Speaker 1: you know, there was there was like hens that would
Speaker 1: come out into fields, single hens and come out and
Speaker 1: feed a little bit and then go go back and
Speaker 1: get on their nests and stuff. Whereas a lot of
Speaker 1: times there's this early they're just hand up, you know,
Speaker 1: more than you really want them to be. So it
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, maybe maybe things are a little
Speaker 1: bit ahead this year. So what's that mean for bear hunting.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, people get pretty excited about green grass
Speaker 2: and bears for good reasons, and I'm one of those people.
Speaker 2: But there comes to be a point. There's a point
Speaker 2: where it's like, too much green grass could be a
Speaker 2: little detrimental to try to trying to find bears, because
Speaker 2: if everything is really green, it can be pretty much everywhere, right.
Speaker 2: But I would say, I don't know, I still focus
Speaker 2: when I'm when I'm looking for bears, I'm still focusing
Speaker 2: on the fresh shoots that are kind of emerging as
Speaker 2: the snow lion recedes up the mountain. Those bears, I've
Speaker 2: noticed they like to eat the freshest, most palatable forbs
Speaker 2: and flowers and grass as they can find, and that
Speaker 2: seems to be that fresh emergent growth. I mean it's
Speaker 2: it's low in fiber, high in nutrients, and they just
Speaker 2: mow it down whenever they can find it. So there's
Speaker 2: a point to where the snow line hits the top
Speaker 2: of the mountain, and then it seems like there they'll
Speaker 2: kind of they'll kind of find these little micro habitats
Speaker 2: where it's the greenest of the green and the lushiest
Speaker 2: of the lush and then pretty soon they'll just disperse
Speaker 2: out into their summer. There's summer patterns. But you know
Speaker 2: when the snow melts early, that snow line goes up higher.
Speaker 2: Those bears tend to be more a little more scattered,
Speaker 2: So it can be a little bit to your disadvantage
Speaker 2: in an early spring. Oh yeah, but an early spring
Speaker 2: allows you to get out and hunt earlier because you're
Speaker 2: kind of out of the dens and they're they're on
Speaker 2: that fresh grass a little earlier than normal, so it
Speaker 2: gives you more time to go find bears and hunt bears.
Speaker 2: But there's a point where they start to It seems
Speaker 2: to me like in this area they start to disperse
Speaker 2: potentially earlier than they normally would.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah absolutely. Are you a
Speaker 1: typically like an opening day guy or do you kind
Speaker 1: of let things kind of get get to the like
Speaker 1: the green grass levels and the four levels and the
Speaker 1: places that you like to go, like all your little
Speaker 1: nooks and crannies. Do you like to kind of just
Speaker 1: wait until things get good there, or like no matter what,
Speaker 1: like opening Bill, it's like, well, I'm gonna hunt them
Speaker 1: wherever you know it looks good, whether there's lots of
Speaker 1: snow or not much snow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I kind of I wait until the
Speaker 2: conditions are good in the areas I like to go hunt. Okay,
Speaker 2: but that can be like on a year like this,
Speaker 2: you know, some of those spots were probably good by
Speaker 2: April twentieth, whereas an a normal snow pack year, they
Speaker 2: might not be that great until like May tenth. Right,
Speaker 2: So I, being local, can I have the luxury of
Speaker 2: just hanging back and observing conditions. And of course part
Speaker 2: of my job is to go out and probe the
Speaker 2: snow and see how much is there. And it allows
Speaker 2: me to kind of check on conditions when I'm out
Speaker 2: in the field and get an idea of like when
Speaker 2: prime time might be. But I typically on a normal
Speaker 2: snow here, I'll wait until I don't get too excited
Speaker 2: and tell about the first part of me.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the opener in Montana? It's April fifteenth, fifteenth, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's sam as Idaho. Yeah, and then what is it close?
Speaker 2: Well, it used to vary. This is a little bit
Speaker 2: longer answer. I could just say June fifteenth and that
Speaker 2: would be one hundred percent correct now, But when I
Speaker 2: first started hunting, bears in the area that I live.
Speaker 2: It used to close May fifteenth, oh, which was really early.
Speaker 2: It was on a normal year, it didn't really get
Speaker 2: good until that last week of the season and you
Speaker 2: start seeing more bears, more habitat was available, you could
Speaker 2: get out and get up to the glassing areas and
Speaker 2: just had better opportunities. And I don't know, it must
Speaker 2: have been eight or nine, maybe it could have been
Speaker 2: ten years ago. They bumped the season out to May
Speaker 2: thirty first here, which was great. I mean it's perfect.
Speaker 2: By that time. A lot of the avalanche shoots are
Speaker 2: melted out, and you can hunt some higher country. You
Speaker 2: can just hunt more diverse terrain. You can get up
Speaker 2: on these big ridge lines that I like to hunt
Speaker 2: on and find bears up on that stuff. But this
Speaker 2: year I just read in their eggs we were extended
Speaker 2: to June fifteenth. It's never been June fifteenth there, oh wow.
Speaker 2: But I mean almost all the way across the state.
Speaker 2: There's some units in Montana that are on a quota,
Speaker 2: and so like certain number bears get killed or certain
Speaker 2: number of females get killed, they shut the unit down.
Speaker 2: But most of western Montana's on that April fifteenth, the
Speaker 2: June fifteenth schedule, which is I think pretty similar to
Speaker 2: most Idaho as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know when I was a kid, they
Speaker 1: used to shut you know, there were certain units that
Speaker 1: would close down pretty early. They would shut down the
Speaker 1: end of May, and then some of the backcountry stuff
Speaker 1: would be later in June, just because some of that
Speaker 1: stuff you couldn't hardly get into it, like the roads
Speaker 1: wouldn't be melted out in time to access a lot
Speaker 1: of that that back country you know, you know Idaho
Speaker 1: there in the Bitter Roots, the part of the Bitter
Speaker 1: Roots where I grew up, it holds a lot of snow.
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of a lot of big hemlock
Speaker 1: groves and a lot of north face stuff, and a
Speaker 1: lot of the roads are on the on the tops
Speaker 1: rather than the bottoms. Are some bottom roads. But man,
Speaker 1: if you want to try to get anywhere you'll be going,
Speaker 1: just find like, man, this is great. You'll come around
Speaker 1: a corner in a hemlock grove and there'll be a
Speaker 1: huge drift across the road that's you know, a quarter
Speaker 1: mile long and ten feet deep.
Speaker 2: Yeah that I mean that area is it is a
Speaker 2: wet part of the world, and it gets a lot
Speaker 2: of snow. I mean I was looking at some of
Speaker 2: the snowtail sites in that area just the other day.
Speaker 2: There's ninety some inches of snow at some of those
Speaker 2: snowtail stations and uh, and it's they're having a pretty
Speaker 2: weak year, right so on a normal air and they're
Speaker 2: looking at over one hundred inches of depth at some
Speaker 2: of those upper elevations. So yeah, that that area is
Speaker 2: super wet. We're pretty wet up here as well. And
Speaker 2: I find the same thing as access is gets in
Speaker 2: I guess, uh, you get impeded by dark corners that
Speaker 2: hold snow and you just can't get up the mountain.
Speaker 1: Right Yeah. And that that's another you know, you know,
Speaker 1: separate topic elk hunting. You know, if you want to
Speaker 1: get to the back country and set hams or or
Speaker 1: just kind of hiked around the places you'd like to
Speaker 1: run around and find elk in the fall, a lot
Speaker 1: of times you can't get to those places and until July,
Speaker 1: you know, and some of these parts of the better
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's it's it's disheartening because then at
Speaker 1: your window of enjoying those those places is so small.
Speaker 1: You know, I love being in the mountains and looking
Speaker 1: for elk and for bears and just I just love
Speaker 1: being up there and to get to my favorite places.
Speaker 1: I sometimes can't get there until, you know, after the
Speaker 1: fourth of July. It's like I burned up the whole
Speaker 1: month of June and couldn't be up there. But you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's the way it is. That's the way it is.
Speaker 1: So tell me, what what is it about bear hunting
Speaker 1: that you like? I mean, I can kind of make
Speaker 1: some assumptions, but what is it about spring bear hunting
Speaker 1: that just you know? And you can get as philosophical
Speaker 1: or or as romantic of it as you want.
Speaker 2: But you saw me scratch, didn't you.
Speaker 1: But you know, I know what I like about it,
Speaker 1: but I must I'm sure you probably like some of
Speaker 1: the same things.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's uh, well, one, it's you know, springtime
Speaker 2: is great. I like getting out and having an opportunity
Speaker 2: to stretch the legs and go look for animals and
Speaker 2: go hunting, which is awesome. Anytime I could go, it's great.
Speaker 2: But like spring bear hunting is just I find it
Speaker 2: amazing because the the forests and the mountains are so different,
Speaker 2: Like the songbirds are back and they're they're mating and
Speaker 2: you hear them all evening long. You'll have these really long,
Speaker 2: drawn out sun sunsets where it just slowly the light
Speaker 2: slowly fades and it's really calm, and you're usually in
Speaker 2: like big forests and the birds are singing and it's
Speaker 2: just echoing. You can hear owls and thrushes and it's
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just kind of a really cool,
Speaker 2: sort of magical time of the year to be out.
Speaker 2: You can hear the water rushing down out of these
Speaker 2: high basins and it's just it's just a sensual kind
Speaker 2: of overload that you don't get in the fall and
Speaker 2: the warm days, the warm evenings, the long days. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of a leisurely activity too. It's like
Speaker 2: you don't have to get up at the crack of
Speaker 2: dawn or before dawn and hike, you know, a couple
Speaker 2: hours in the dark to get to your spot. You
Speaker 2: can if you want. I wouldn't recommend it. It's never
Speaker 2: really bought me a whole lot. So it's like a
Speaker 2: lot of times I'll get up and have leisurely coffee
Speaker 2: and hang out and glass from camp and kind of
Speaker 2: get a day plan together and hike in and glass
Speaker 2: for the evening. I don't know, it's just a it's
Speaker 2: a different pace of a hunt. And bears are just
Speaker 2: cool animals. They're fun to watch. I love seeing sows
Speaker 2: with their cubs, and they're they're fun to hunt you.
Speaker 2: I love the stalk. I love to bow hunt them.
Speaker 2: I mean, rifle hunting them is pretty cool. I've shot
Speaker 2: a few with a rifle, but man, they're super fun
Speaker 2: to stalk with a bow and get in close and
Speaker 2: they're I mean, I think more if people try it
Speaker 2: more often, they would realize that it's it's a pretty
Speaker 2: obtainable goal, is to sneak within bow range of a bear.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that. I feel like your heart probably has
Speaker 1: to be beating out of your chest with anticipation when
Speaker 1: you get what it's almost going to happen, Like I
Speaker 1: can just I can picture it now, like, oh man,
Speaker 1: I think I might get this one. And you're like
Speaker 1: you're closing in the last little approach and I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: I bet your heart's just not ready to beat out
Speaker 1: of your chest. I mean, I think mine would be
Speaker 1: just with anticipation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if it's a big one. And you really
Speaker 2: want it bad. I mean it's like, yeah, like anything else,
Speaker 2: that level rises and you get that surge of adrenaline
Speaker 2: and you have to focus and not screw up because
Speaker 2: those big bears are they're pretty cagey. They can hear
Speaker 2: really well, and they can see better than a lot
Speaker 2: of people give them credit for. Especially with me. You're
Speaker 2: within like you know, one hundred yards and closer I'll
Speaker 2: pick you out and they'll hear the tiniest little twig
Speaker 2: snap and I don't know what it is, but they're
Speaker 2: even those big ones are pretty wired. And so if
Speaker 2: you I had one like lift. He was feeding on
Speaker 2: this big grassy hillside and I was probably like fifty
Speaker 2: yards away and he he uh, he stopped. He lifted
Speaker 2: his head, and I thought he was going to turn
Speaker 2: and like look my direction. So I like hunkered down
Speaker 2: to get in a ball, and my knees snapped. You
Speaker 2: know how cartilage will pop in your knee sometimes they
Speaker 2: just and just a light snap, and man, he whipped
Speaker 2: his head over there and just stared at me for minutes,
Speaker 2: and then he just got nervous and just he never ran,
Speaker 2: but he just walked away at a kind of a
Speaker 2: faster walk than normal. He wasn't feeding anymore away from me.
Speaker 2: He was just walking away from me, and I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe he heard my knees snap. So that, to me,
Speaker 2: that's that he was a big bear. Oh he was
Speaker 2: a giant.
Speaker 1: Oh man, But that's fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really neat though. I love to sneak in
Speaker 2: on them. It's it's fun, and it's it really polishes
Speaker 2: your stocking skills because you have to you know, you
Speaker 2: have to throw it back, bring it back to the basics.
Speaker 2: It's like you have to locate them, for one, and
Speaker 2: then you have to figure out what the wind potentially
Speaker 2: or guess what the wind could be doing on the
Speaker 2: mountain that it's he's on, and then you have to
Speaker 2: pick landmarks and make a plan and then sneak in.
Speaker 2: So I think it's a great learning opportunity for people
Speaker 2: to learn how to stock game with a bow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, you've got you got me hooked there. I
Speaker 1: was planning on going to do a rifle hunting the spring,
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, man, I want to do it
Speaker 1: with the bow. You just painted a pretty good picture
Speaker 1: and I want to kind of go back to that part.
Speaker 1: About the ice sight. I know people they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: bears can't see ship, you know, the their vision's not good.
Speaker 1: But you know, if maybe if your rifle range, you know,
Speaker 1: across a drawer or a canyon, maybe they're not going
Speaker 1: to know you as much. But it sounds like, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got enough reps in up close to bears where
Speaker 1: they they still notice things pretty easily.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. Yeah, And I think you could get
Speaker 2: away with more movement, like at a distance then you
Speaker 2: say you would a mule there it's over, you know,
Speaker 2: three hundred yards across the drainage or or maybe even further.
Speaker 2: Mule deer will pick you out and elk. But bears,
Speaker 2: you can get away with more more movement at that distance.
Speaker 2: But when you're up close, they'll they'll definitely scrutinize you.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people there's a big
Speaker 2: push to wear solid bow hunting. I think wearing camouflage
Speaker 2: when you're spring bear hunting is key because you're at
Speaker 2: close distances, they're in the open. You're kind of sneaking
Speaker 2: across the open too, and you just need to have
Speaker 2: that outline broken up a little bit. And I think
Speaker 2: wearing camouflage pays dividends if I mean, if it helps
Speaker 2: you out one time, it's worth it in my.
Speaker 1: Opinion, right right. You know, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that will say, oh, camouflage, you know, for elk, and
Speaker 1: you know, camouflage is for people you know you can
Speaker 1: hunt elk in solids, and which you can. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what, I've had some amazing close counters for
Speaker 1: a lot of different years, mostly in camouflage. Now, I've
Speaker 1: had some solid pants on before and camo top and
Speaker 1: got picked off, and I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: something else, maybe you know, from the elk standpoint, it
Speaker 1: was like it I was silhouetted or maybe you know,
Speaker 1: maybe I stood out, you know, more than normal. But
Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer in camouflage.
Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, I am too. It's for elk at the
Speaker 2: distances that they get called into in this country, in
Speaker 2: North Idaho, in that brush country. I mean we're talking
Speaker 2: like ten twelve sometimes closer yards right that they come
Speaker 2: in and then they're stopped and their their eyeballs are
Speaker 2: just scanning around looking right. And I think the more
Speaker 2: you can blend in the better off you'll be.
Speaker 1: I just think, yeah, I agree, And I think elk
Speaker 1: when they come in, they're not necessarily looking for a human.
Speaker 1: They're looking for another their adversary, right you called him in.
Speaker 1: They're looking for another bull elk. And if you're wearing
Speaker 1: like a big solid pattern, what else is solid? I'm like,
Speaker 1: the side of a bull elk is pretty solid. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a light color. So I would if I were
Speaker 1: to wear solid, i'd wear something a little more subdued,
Speaker 1: like a green or something a little darker. Maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: not a real like even like a flat dark earth
Speaker 1: type color, you know, as a top. Maybe I wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that, right, So probably I'll be the same with bears, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with bears, they're they're looking for other bears. I
Speaker 2: mean they're there are you know, they're looking for another
Speaker 2: bear that's coming into their area, and right if it's
Speaker 2: it could be a female that the boar is getting
Speaker 2: excited about, or it could be a medium sized boar
Speaker 2: that's scared of a bigger boar coming in. So they're
Speaker 2: looking for dark brown or black colored features or creatures.
Speaker 2: So I think, if if you can do anything where
Speaker 2: something to not look like a darker blob when you're
Speaker 2: stock both at least bow hunting, you're sure you're better off.
Speaker 2: In Montana, you have to wear Hunters orange regardless of
Speaker 2: what you're hunting with.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not a huge fan of that, but that's why
Speaker 2: I kind of like hunting Idaho from a just you know,
Speaker 2: just a simplicity standpoint. You can go hunt anything you
Speaker 2: want without orange, right and right. But Montana you have
Speaker 2: to wear the orange whatever four hundred square inches above
Speaker 2: the waist right, So you have to kind of contend
Speaker 2: with that a little bit. But as long as you
Speaker 2: break up your outline and your form, I think you
Speaker 2: will get You'll get away with a fair bit with
Speaker 2: a bear.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I don't want to sound like a tinfoil
Speaker 1: hat guy haringwn orange, but you know, you always think about, like, man,
Speaker 1: should I wear an orange, because ever since I was
Speaker 1: a kid, you know, safety orange. You know, in Idaho,
Speaker 1: like you said, it's not required, but sometimes I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely orange is good because people will kind of see
Speaker 1: where you're at and maybe they won't shoot your direction
Speaker 1: if there's some animals in between you. But sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel like you got people like, oh there's somebody in
Speaker 1: orange over there, I'm gonna look through my scope at
Speaker 1: that guy and see if I recognize them or something
Speaker 1: like that. So almost maybe now it's a target.
Speaker 2: But I think things do happen, right, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: both both of those do and have happened. I am.
Speaker 2: I think the orange law is ridiculous. I'll go on
Speaker 2: the record and say that I hate it. I think
Speaker 2: it's absolutely pointless. If you want to wear it, there's
Speaker 2: nothing stopping you from wearing it. But I feel like
Speaker 2: I don't need to wear it. I never I'm not
Speaker 2: going to say anything else on that. I could go
Speaker 2: off on that.
Speaker 1: I love candor. Yeah, so you you majority of the
Speaker 1: time you're bow hunting them more than rifle, but probably
Speaker 1: depends on the ear, the location.
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I'll have friends up and we'll
Speaker 2: you know, pack rifles, or I'll pack a bow, no
Speaker 2: pack a rifle, or vice versa. The last couple of
Speaker 2: trips that I had people up on there were some
Speaker 2: like some photography trips, so I just I packed a rifle,
Speaker 2: or I could be testing some gear too. I last
Speaker 2: year I was testing a rifle for rock Slide, so
Speaker 2: I packed a rifle. I wanted to use it and
Speaker 2: get as much time in the field with it. So
Speaker 2: I rifle hunted for bears. So I'm not against shooting
Speaker 2: a bear with a rifle chuck a handful now, yeah,
Speaker 2: with a with a smoke stick. But I really liked
Speaker 2: the bow on them. They're fun and it's it's one
Speaker 2: of those things where it's like, if I don't kill one,
Speaker 2: it's not a huge deal. My freezer's full of alk.
Speaker 1: Meat, right right, you're you're it's all about the the
Speaker 1: the process, all about the the experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, and I I don't I go
Speaker 2: out in the field every year with the intention of
Speaker 2: killing a bear, but I don't. I just I probably
Speaker 2: at I and I could probably kill one every year
Speaker 2: if I wanted. There's just some times I just don't
Speaker 2: feel like doing it, so I just walk away. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's fun to sneak in ye not not
Speaker 2: kill that bear and back out and just you know,
Speaker 2: have the experience of stalking it too, So I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. And that's people who are against hunting.
Speaker 1: They don't understand these kind of things, this kind of way.
Speaker 1: They label us all lump us, all this blood blood
Speaker 1: cold blooded killers, you know, bloodthirsty killers, and they almost
Speaker 1: like put us all in the same category as poacher
Speaker 1: or something. You know, people are just bad people doing
Speaker 1: bad things, right, But when you hear somebody talk about
Speaker 1: it like like you you know, it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: you're you'd like to kill one, but it doesn't. You
Speaker 1: don't have to, And it's just the experience of being
Speaker 1: out there and chasing them around a little bit and
Speaker 1: getting close and observing, and you may or may you
Speaker 1: may make the decision not to just because man, I
Speaker 1: don't really feel like it doesn't it doesn't really if
Speaker 1: I take this bear's life right now, it's not gonna
Speaker 1: make me a happy day, right right? My cup is full?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, well yeah last year was a good example
Speaker 2: of that. I you know Steve Drake, yeah, photography. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So he came up and we were we were doing
Speaker 2: a hunt in Idaho and we were seeing some bears
Speaker 2: and I ended up we saw this. It was a
Speaker 2: nice chocolate bear on this hillside, and we ended up
Speaker 2: working a way around and getting above him. His middle
Speaker 2: of the day and the wind was coming up, and
Speaker 2: we just had my rifle. Like I mentioned earlier, and
Speaker 2: I just kind of stalked down the hill a little
Speaker 2: bit and got within one hundred yards or something, and like,
Speaker 2: that's a that's a decent bear. I don't know, I might,
Speaker 2: I might shoot him. He's really cool looking. Let's s
Speaker 2: gal a little closer. So we go down the hill
Speaker 2: a little bit further and I'm like, let's gal a
Speaker 2: little closer. And the whole time Steven's is like, oh
Speaker 2: this is He's just back behind me with his lens
Speaker 2: of shooting. He's in stalking it. Yeah. I got with
Speaker 2: in thirty five yards of him, and you know, I
Speaker 2: had my shooting sticks up and I had looking at
Speaker 2: him through my scope and I'm like, I just use
Speaker 2: a knight. If I would have had my bow, I
Speaker 2: probably would have tried to sneak a little closer and
Speaker 2: then I would have shot him with my bow. But
Speaker 2: I just it just didn't feel right shoot him with
Speaker 2: my gun at thirty five yards, yeah, because it was
Speaker 2: it took us probably you know, an hour to you know,
Speaker 2: bridge that gap. Yeah, and spent some time at it,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, we let him walk. He got
Speaker 2: some awesome images of the bear. Kind of eventually I
Speaker 2: snapped a little bear grass stock and he kind of
Speaker 2: looked up and got nervous and he walked away, but
Speaker 2: then he circled above us kind of kind of came
Speaker 2: in from the side to kind of see what was
Speaker 2: going on. Oh yeah, Steven got some great, great photos
Speaker 2: of him, but he got some great pictures of me
Speaker 2: with kind of the back of my head and shoulder
Speaker 2: kind of blurred out, and then the bears just right
Speaker 2: there kind of head up looking around or head down feeding.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: That is cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, that's stuff like that that I just
Speaker 2: love to do.
Speaker 1: That. That's awesome. That's that's worth the price of admission
Speaker 1: right there is just to get that close. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: We're going to do it again this year with our bows.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah cool. Yeah, I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: the pictures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see how it turns out.
Speaker 1: So are you a boot leather or you a glass guy?
Speaker 1: Are you kind of a combo? Are you like you know?
Speaker 1: Are you hiking a lot? Are you glassing a lot?
Speaker 1: Are you like hiking a lot to get to us
Speaker 1: your favorite glass and points? Are you glassing from the
Speaker 1: truck and then making a big plan and diving off
Speaker 1: into huge canyons to get over to them. What it's
Speaker 1: your Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: A good question. I'm both man. I like to hunt
Speaker 2: big country, big open glass ofble country, and so I
Speaker 2: like the cruise and glass, you know, ideal terrain and
Speaker 2: habitat for bear rocky like early in the spring. I
Speaker 2: like looking at like, you know, big rocky out out
Speaker 2: crops with grassy edges and stuff, and a lot of
Speaker 2: that occurs in these big canyons. So I'll, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll hike into places and park my butt on the
Speaker 2: opposite side and glass where I can see a lot
Speaker 2: of it right and plant a stock that way. Avalanche
Speaker 2: shoots are kind of the same way. I kind of
Speaker 2: hunt them that I hunt them a similar fashion. But
Speaker 2: I also like to hunt, and I've killed most of
Speaker 2: my bigger bears hunting old not too old, but grassy
Speaker 2: logging roads. Okay, So cruising logging roads, miles and miles
Speaker 2: and miles of walking and or riding a mountain bike, sure,
Speaker 2: looking for sign, looking for tracks, looking for piles of poop,
Speaker 2: and hunt and just still hunting down those roads, just
Speaker 2: creeping down down those roads right at dark, you know,
Speaker 2: like within the last hour half a daylight. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I do both. I put a lot of boot leather
Speaker 2: on the ground, and I also, you know, use my
Speaker 2: eyeballs a lot too. But I don't know, there's not
Speaker 2: a lot of places I glass from the truck. It
Speaker 2: seems like those places get glassed a lot. Okay, they're pretty,
Speaker 2: they're few and far between here, and they're they're fairly
Speaker 2: well known. A lot of non residents will see those
Speaker 2: places and just key in on them. And a lot
Speaker 2: of those places aren't really like quality habitat either. I
Speaker 2: end up seeing a lot of thousand cubs and some
Speaker 2: of that stuff that's very observable from main roads. And
Speaker 2: I don't know why. Maybe it's just not maybe those
Speaker 2: boards are too shy or something, or they just know
Speaker 2: they're not safe there, or they just prefer not to
Speaker 2: be there. I don't know, but yeah, anyway, so yeah,
Speaker 2: I try. I'd wheel glass from the road occasionally, but
Speaker 2: most of my better spots I hike in a wayste
Speaker 2: before I have to, you know, sit down and start
Speaker 2: picking apart the hillsides right on.
Speaker 1: Do you how often do you biby bivy hunt for bears?
Speaker 1: Do you do that? Going for two or three days
Speaker 1: or is it more of a just kind of day
Speaker 1: trip in it thing?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'll do both. I will. I like to
Speaker 2: like set aside some time, take some time off of
Speaker 2: work and do some longer backpack trips and yeah, it'll
Speaker 2: all you know, I'll go out for like maybe four
Speaker 2: or five days, four or five nights. I mean those
Speaker 2: days are long. So that's a that's a fair bit
Speaker 2: of hunting. Yeah, it seems like I can cover and
Speaker 2: glass a lot of country and in the four or five,
Speaker 2: four or five evenings of hunting. Sure, it's a fun.
Speaker 2: It's a fun adventure. I love to do it. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's necessary, right, but I I do like it.
Speaker 2: And that's what Steven and I were doing last year.
Speaker 2: There was this big long ridge line we were camped on.
Speaker 2: We just kept moving our camp a little further, a
Speaker 2: little further, a little further, and there's no real water
Speaker 2: sources up there, but there's big snow drifts. Who could
Speaker 2: get water, Like no creeks, but we could get water
Speaker 2: off the melted snow and stuff. Okay, yeah it was
Speaker 2: it was super fun. But yeah, I like that. I
Speaker 2: like to do some backpack trips if possible. The weather's
Speaker 2: usually pretty nice and the bugs really aren't too terribly
Speaker 2: bad until maybe, you know, early June, and even then
Speaker 2: they're not horrible.
Speaker 1: So it's been up. It's like later June. I've been
Speaker 1: in some back country and man, the little black flies
Speaker 1: are terrible, Like you can't really open your mouth. And
Speaker 1: maybe it was that particular area and specifically, but man,
Speaker 1: it was tough or sometimes uh, same with mosquitoes. Mosquitoes,
Speaker 1: you know, closer to the fourth of July. Then there's
Speaker 1: some places where I mean you couldn't hardly open your
Speaker 1: mouth without breathing some and it was it was horrible.
Speaker 1: I would rather fight grizzly bears than mosquitos, I.
Speaker 2: Think, Yeah, there's just no right from them. Yes, there's
Speaker 2: some places I go hiked in some of the local
Speaker 2: mountains here in July and August. Oh, it is miserable.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the one, the one insect that you just
Speaker 2: can't get away from when you're spring bear hunting is you,
Speaker 2: you know, are the ticks.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Remember back when turkey hunting, when I was a
Speaker 1: kid in Florida, my Florida cousins used this stuff called
Speaker 1: muscall and it was and it came in a little
Speaker 1: tiny bottle, little plastic bottle, and it says one deep,
Speaker 1: and uh, I think they might have used that in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was that that level of grade of goodness. And
Speaker 1: if you got any on your hands and then got
Speaker 1: it on your lips at all, your lips would go numb. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it must have been the good stuff. But you
Speaker 1: can't buy one hundred percent deep anything anymore. I think
Speaker 1: it's so bad for you. I think they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we gotta pull that off the shelf.
Speaker 2: You know. We went on a canoe trip in uh,
Speaker 2: British Columbia in July, late July a couple of years back,
Speaker 2: and there's a series of lakes where we're going through
Speaker 2: this big circuit and we're talking Mosquito Bille and in
Speaker 2: the little store there, they had some of that one
Speaker 2: hundred percent deep and I think it was the MUCKs muskall.
Speaker 2: I think it was like in an orange bottle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, works worked well. Keep away from your mouth and.
Speaker 2: Nose, it'll melt plastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, first thing I do, get it on my lips. Okay,
Speaker 1: dang it, I can't feel my lips now. Ah, that's nasty. Uh, so,
Speaker 1: can you guys bait bears or run bears with dogs?
Speaker 1: In Montana?
Speaker 2: Baiting has never been allowed, and hound hunting has been
Speaker 2: allowed in certain areas just for the past two seasons.
Speaker 1: Now, right.
Speaker 2: For for the longest time, it's never been allowed, and
Speaker 2: now there's a few areas where it is allowed. There
Speaker 2: was something passed by the Commission. I think it was
Speaker 2: two years ago. It seems like I think some stuff
Speaker 2: down there in the bitter Root country is open for
Speaker 2: hound hunting, and then god, maybe more south central I
Speaker 2: don't really, I don't know. I haven't looked that close
Speaker 2: into the way the hounds are allowed, but they tried
Speaker 2: to keep it out of most of the grizzly bear habitat,
Speaker 2: which is most of western Montana right right, So, but
Speaker 2: I think the bitter Roots, I know for a fact,
Speaker 2: the bitter Roots being clear and some of that stuff
Speaker 2: down by Superior. I think there's a little bit of
Speaker 2: area down there they're allowed to use dogs. But baiting
Speaker 2: has never been on the on the on the menu
Speaker 2: around in Montana, and not even in Northern Idaho. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's allowed.
Speaker 1: Certain areas in Northern Idaho. So I think I think
Speaker 1: in that grizzly bear habitat, it's definitely not allowed.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so like the Panhandle, so.
Speaker 1: There's I think there's a line in the Panhandle where
Speaker 1: you can but there's definitely a line where you can't
Speaker 1: grizzly bear habitat. And yeah, there's been a couple of
Speaker 1: times people have shot grizzlies over Bait and Idaho on
Speaker 1: the border country there. You know, in the past, it
Speaker 1: seems like accidentally, you know, it was like it was
Speaker 1: like maybe with an outfitter, like the outfit or the
Speaker 1: guide would drop the the hunter off at the stand
Speaker 1: and then be like all right, I'll pick you up
Speaker 1: a dark type of thing, and grizzly came in and
Speaker 1: like oh shoot there's a bear. Bam. Well yeah that's
Speaker 1: a grizzly bear.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not good. There's some paperwork in their future.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, some testimonies and PaperWorks and photo sessions and
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2: I do not envy that well. Even here with spot
Speaker 2: and stock hunting, it seems like there's always a bear
Speaker 2: grizzly or two gets killed by just mistaken identity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just locally here last last spring there was one killed
Speaker 2: collar bear, and I've got some information regarding that I'll
Speaker 2: maybe tell you off the air. Yeah, I can't talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Publicly right now, right right. Well, I know we've hunted
Speaker 1: in Wyoming before, and there's a couple of times it's like,
Speaker 1: that's a big You'll see a big bear on hillside.
Speaker 1: You're like, and the color, the color will look like
Speaker 1: a grizzly bear. You're like, oh, there's a freaking grizzly
Speaker 1: So you sit down and analyze and study. Okay, look
Speaker 1: at his hump and like sometimes the way they stand
Speaker 1: on a hill, like a black bear will get a
Speaker 1: hump on their back, absolutely, just by the way they're
Speaker 1: standing in their stance, and you've got to watch them
Speaker 1: for a while. It's like, man, does he have a
Speaker 1: dish on his face? You know, you're looking for all
Speaker 1: the telltale signs in it, you know, four or five
Speaker 1: hundred yards. It's it's kind of hard sometimes, especially if
Speaker 1: you don't have a spotter, you know, if you're just
Speaker 1: looking through maybe your rangefinder or some like eight powered
Speaker 1: binoculars that are not real good. But eventually, you know,
Speaker 1: if you watch them long enough, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not a grizzly or whoah, that is a grizzly
Speaker 1: You the tell tales.
Speaker 2: Are there, but yes, yeah, and I've you know, I
Speaker 2: was talking about this a couple of weekends ago about
Speaker 2: just you know, just sizing black bears and and identifying
Speaker 2: you know, a good bear. The difference between a big
Speaker 2: male black bear and their shape or they're very similar
Speaker 2: to to a grizzly bear body profile as far as
Speaker 2: like they do have a hump, a smaller hump, but
Speaker 2: they will have a humped shoulder and their their rear end,
Speaker 2: their rump is really rounded. And they come in all shades,
Speaker 2: and so do grizzly bears too. They come they can
Speaker 2: be pretty dark faced too. I've watched several black bears
Speaker 2: at you know, close range, within a couple hundred yards.
Speaker 2: There was one I was I had to look at
Speaker 2: him for a long time before I could tell it
Speaker 2: was a black bear. Wow, big great, big chocolate male,
Speaker 2: just huge hump on his shoulder, and I he was
Speaker 2: just in and out of all this kind of this
Speaker 2: region lodgepole, and I just could not get a really
Speaker 2: definitive look. And then finally even at an ear tag,
Speaker 2: that's what I saw an ear tag. Oh, but it
Speaker 2: ended up being a black bear and I shot him.
Speaker 2: Perfect bear. That bear was fourteen. Oh yeah, they had
Speaker 2: they had captured him in a grizzly bear foot snare
Speaker 2: and they'd collared him and he was nine and then
Speaker 2: I killed him a few years later. So it's pretty
Speaker 2: cool to the local grizzly biologist. Is he was all
Speaker 2: excited to get the ear tag. Hold on, let me
Speaker 2: run in my office and look up his number, and
Speaker 2: I'll let you know exactly where he caught him and
Speaker 2: how old he was because they pull already pulled the
Speaker 2: tooth out him. He had a tattoo on his lip.
Speaker 1: Oh he was.
Speaker 2: He was like a gangster, you know. He looked pretty tough. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll tat it up, and had packing some some ear jewelry.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a cool bear, a really neat bear,
Speaker 2: big chocolate. But yeah, he looked a lot like a
Speaker 2: like he had some aspects of a grizzly bear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he had a very distinct black bear face, no
Speaker 2: grounded let's dig you know that. That's what really gave
Speaker 2: it away.
Speaker 1: Okay, how far away from from the kill site was
Speaker 1: he tagged.
Speaker 2: With the Oh uh not far. I would say within
Speaker 2: maybe two air miles. Max.
Speaker 1: Oh really Woweh, that's that's crazy crazy. Yeah. You hear
Speaker 1: stories about you know, collared bears or or ear tag bears.
Speaker 1: You know they tag in one place and they'll turn
Speaker 1: up in a complete different mountain ranger whatever. You say. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: that thing had some wheels on him.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. I've had some friends kill Yeah, buddy
Speaker 2: of mine killed a bear that was tagged like twenty
Speaker 2: seven miles away. But that we don't know if that
Speaker 2: thing got moved by itself or in a covert trap,
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 1: There's always that too. Yeah, So is there a particular
Speaker 1: food that bears like that you're trying to find in
Speaker 1: like because you didn't mention some forbs and flowers or
Speaker 1: is it just kind of the general the stuff that's
Speaker 1: kind of growing up right after the snow leaves there.
Speaker 2: I think there are definitely forbs and grasses that they
Speaker 2: key in on. So, I what I've noticed around here,
Speaker 2: they really love orchard grass. Okay, so it's especially when
Speaker 2: it's short. You know, orchard grass will eventually get tall,
Speaker 2: sprout out, and you know it's not very palatable at
Speaker 2: that point. There's a lot of fiber and not very
Speaker 2: many nutrients. But you know within that, you know, six
Speaker 2: inches tall and just comes up in these little clumps.
Speaker 2: But it has like a kind of a bright green
Speaker 2: bladed you know, piece of grass or ahead of grass
Speaker 2: that comes up. They love that stuff. Okay, not to
Speaker 2: be confused with fescue, because they'll grow, they'll grow right
Speaker 2: next to one another, and they look kind of similar
Speaker 2: at a distance. So you're glassing across the hillside and
Speaker 2: you'll see like, oh, it's green is Ireland over there?
Speaker 2: And you go over there and it's all this rescue
Speaker 2: with a little bit of orchard grass mixed in. If
Speaker 2: you watch bears over on that hillside eating, at some point,
Speaker 2: you'll see their keying in on the actual orchard grass
Speaker 2: that rescue. They just don't eat.
Speaker 1: They don't like it.
Speaker 2: Deer and elk love it. But you know what I'm
Speaker 2: talking about, Scott, it's more wiry blades, but it still
Speaker 2: grows in those small little clumps yep, and it's a
Speaker 2: little darker green I think.
Speaker 1: Mmm.
Speaker 2: So yeah, if you can find orchard grass, definitely bears
Speaker 2: will be munching on it. If you're like walking logging
Speaker 2: roads or hunting and cold clearcut skid trails, log deck
Speaker 2: landing areas. Sometimes you'll find those have been seeded with clover,
Speaker 2: and black bears love that clover. The Forest Service doesn't
Speaker 2: use clover much anymore. They're they're going to more of
Speaker 2: a native seed mix. But some private timber company industrial
Speaker 2: timber ground sometimes they'll use clover just to see their
Speaker 2: roads and skined trails for erosion control. So you might
Speaker 2: find that out there. If you can find clover, that's
Speaker 2: like crack. The bears they just love it. Yeah. Flowers,
Speaker 2: they I've seen them eating the fresh flower heads off
Speaker 2: of the aarrowleaf, balsam root. They'll just walk all of
Speaker 2: seen isers. I have video of this great big board
Speaker 2: just walking from plant to plant, just you just eat
Speaker 2: the yellow heads. Oh man, just moving along. And I
Speaker 2: think that you know, those things are so high and
Speaker 2: nutrients that they just it's preferred. Oh, glacier lilies, they'll
Speaker 2: eat the heads off the glacier lilies. A little yellow
Speaker 2: like shooting star looking plants that come up right after
Speaker 2: the snow kind of leaves. You have a big snow
Speaker 2: drift on a hillside, you'll see those things popping up
Speaker 2: right right behind it. Yeah, I see them eat this
Speaker 2: plant called biscuit root. It's this really weird, wispy, tiny
Speaker 2: little yellow flowers that kind of come up and like
Speaker 2: these little fluorescents almost like like a picture of firework
Speaker 2: blowing up, and each little trailer would be like a
Speaker 2: little tiny flower. I've seen him eat that that stuff.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, and I think it's kind of
Speaker 2: you know, localized. You know, certain areas grow certain forage,
Speaker 2: and so I recommend people just if they do sea bears,
Speaker 2: you know, raising on a hillside, just really pay attention
Speaker 2: to what they're eating. Or if you're out hiking around
Speaker 2: walking through bear habitat and you see bear sign tracks,
Speaker 2: and you just pay attention what's been bitten, what's been eaten,
Speaker 2: Like you'll see that orchard grass and nibbled down to
Speaker 2: like just down to the basel area.
Speaker 1: M that's cool. The area I grew up hunting a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a little lower elevation in more canyon country, like
Speaker 1: lower canyons, and there was a lot of like wild
Speaker 1: onions and stuff like that. Oh yeah in that area,
Speaker 1: and they liked those things. I mean, you could go
Speaker 1: walk over there and just pick one out you know,
Speaker 1: wiggle it a little bit and you could pick out
Speaker 1: this little weird onion looking thing off the hillside. So
Speaker 1: they like that and a lot of other things. And
Speaker 1: then later in this you know, like early early summer
Speaker 1: that that June time, May June, there were these old
Speaker 1: orchards everywhere from back in the homestead of days. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody had a little orchard at their at their home instead,
Speaker 1: you know, and they had cherries or apples or what
Speaker 1: at plums, all those kind of things. And over the years,
Speaker 1: you know, since then, bears have got into those orchards
Speaker 1: and and eaten all the different fruits and then magically
Speaker 1: planted the seeds all over the landscape. So you see,
Speaker 1: you know, cherry trees and apple trees and pear trees
Speaker 1: and plum trees all over this canyon country. Like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's apples or there's there's cherries. And the right time
Speaker 1: of year, man, those those bears just wreck havoc on
Speaker 1: those trees.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we we kind of have that here
Speaker 2: as well, but they're I don't know, some of our
Speaker 2: little orchards are like in people's backyards, sure, and I
Speaker 2: definitely see them coming down in the fall and hitting
Speaker 2: that stuff, especially if our huckleberries have failed, you know,
Speaker 2: in summer. M hm. So yeah, like it seems like
Speaker 2: our huckleberries start coming on, like it's usually right around
Speaker 2: the first part of July in certain areas, and then
Speaker 2: where those huckleberries are coming on, the bears are on
Speaker 2: them from from then un till they're off the plant,
Speaker 2: you know. Sometimes that's into late September.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've seen Yeah, I've seen bears in its
Speaker 1: late September a lot. When I'm bow hunting, you'll see
Speaker 1: black bears eating huckleberries. I seen this monster one. I
Speaker 1: drove right by him. We were driving from one spot
Speaker 1: to another. Looked over the hill and there's this giant
Speaker 1: black bear sitting on his butt and he's like sitting there,
Speaker 1: scooping the brush into his mouth, eating the berries off.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's the biggest bear I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And things looked huge. So we kept driving and kind
Speaker 1: of snuck back like I didn't have a gun, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was really really open country and like, I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna get close enough to this thing. And I
Speaker 1: got to about one hundred yards from him, and like
Speaker 1: you said, he heard, he heard a twig snap, and
Speaker 1: he looked up and then it was just gone. I
Speaker 1: don't know why the vehicle driving by I didn't bother him.
Speaker 1: It was a pretty traveled road. A lot of people
Speaker 1: drove on that road, and he was kind of in
Speaker 1: the shadows a little bit of some of some trees,
Speaker 1: and I think he just thought it's just some huckleberry
Speaker 1: pickers or you know, tourists driving around. So as soon
Speaker 1: as things got quiet and he heard me snap that twig,
Speaker 1: it's like game over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something he didn't want to hear next
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what kind of if you recommend a
Speaker 1: rifle caliber for hunting bears? Would you say? You know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, the greatest rifle hunting rifle of
Speaker 1: all time is a six to five tread More. Is
Speaker 1: that too much? Is that too much? I mean it's
Speaker 1: all over the internet. It depends on which camp you
Speaker 1: listen to. There's the one that's the greatest and the
Speaker 1: ones that says it's the worst. But what what should
Speaker 1: a guy look for in a good bear hunting rifle?
Speaker 1: What kind of what would you recommend?
Speaker 2: Man? That's a good question. I mean a six five
Speaker 2: creed More will work on bears, no problem, you know,
Speaker 2: just you know, have the right constructed bullet, put it
Speaker 2: in the right spot. Everything's hunky dory. I know people
Speaker 2: use stuff that's even smaller. There's a growing trend in
Speaker 2: certain circles to use smaller and smaller calibers, right, I
Speaker 2: like personally, I like big bullets. I mean, I own
Speaker 2: rifles from six five PRC to a three seventy five Ruger, right,
Speaker 2: and I love them all. Three thirty eight win Meg
Speaker 2: is amazing. I have a three hundred Ultra mag that
Speaker 2: I absolutely love. I have a twenty eight Nozler. It
Speaker 2: just shumps lights out, thirty six, two seventy. Some of
Speaker 2: the old classics work great, But I would just say
Speaker 2: make sure you have a well constructed bullet that can
Speaker 2: break bones, because you might need to know bust through
Speaker 2: a shoulder. Bears have weird angles. They don't look they're
Speaker 2: not like, they're kind of more roundy than a flat
Speaker 2: sided deer or an elk. Right that people, And so
Speaker 2: it's hard to like pick a spot on a bear
Speaker 2: and know exactly what you're aiming at. So you might
Speaker 2: hit off, you might not hit exactly where you think
Speaker 2: you need to hit, and it might be in the
Speaker 2: front shoulder. You might have to penetrate through a fair
Speaker 2: bit of hair and maybe a little bit of fat
Speaker 2: and some jiggly meat to penetrate the vitals. But bears
Speaker 2: aren't overly big. It's not like shooting a moose. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I would say, just any cartridge that will work on
Speaker 2: that you would be willing to take on a mule
Speaker 2: deer hunt will work for a black bear.
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, that's good advice. I think. Now as far
Speaker 1: as shot placement, you know some people they may not
Speaker 1: know where even where to shoot a bear, you know,
Speaker 1: right behind the front shoulder, they say, But bear vitals
Speaker 1: are a little different than a deer elk.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes they are. They they're yeah, they're tricky. If
Speaker 2: you're used to shooting into the armpit or the pocket
Speaker 2: o a deer or elk, you're probably going to be
Speaker 2: too low and too far forward on an air so
Speaker 2: you want to back that up and go a little higher.
Speaker 2: So I've heard people say shoot for the middle of
Speaker 2: the middle. I would say, just shoot forward of the middle. Yes,
Speaker 2: so maybe not quite right in the middle of his body,
Speaker 2: you know, front to back, but maybe just a little
Speaker 2: forward of that middle line and then you know halfway
Speaker 2: up from from chest to back. If you're right in
Speaker 2: the middle there, you're good. So yeah, yeah, the vitals
Speaker 2: sit back a little bit more than people think, or
Speaker 2: they're shoulders move forward more right over there, you know,
Speaker 2: up in front of their their chest cavity.
Speaker 1: Further towards like the the brisket bone or whatever they're
Speaker 1: the thorascic or opening. Maybe.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's a good question because that's that is tricky.
Speaker 2: Their anatomy is different than if didn't white tailed deer, mule, deer, elk,
Speaker 2: you know, stuff that people are used to shooting and
Speaker 2: butchering and breaking apart.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so let's say you got your bear down.
Speaker 1: What are you doing with all the meat and the
Speaker 1: meat are you are you taking the fat? Are you
Speaker 1: taking the bones? Are you taking the meat? What are
Speaker 1: you doing with it? So the hide?
Speaker 2: Yes, so there's certain you know, states have certain requirements
Speaker 2: so that you got to check in. So in Montana
Speaker 2: it varies by the region, but you know, you need
Speaker 2: to report your kill and some places, some areas you
Speaker 2: have to bring the hide in, the hide and skull
Speaker 2: in to get checked. Some places you don't it's a
Speaker 2: self check in. But regardless, I take the head the hide,
Speaker 2: and I take all the meat, and if it has fat,
Speaker 2: I will take the fat. So you know that the
Speaker 2: hides I typically I don't have. I do have a
Speaker 2: bear rug. I take that back. I the first bear
Speaker 2: I ever killed. I got a bear rug ridiculously expensive,
Speaker 2: and it's up in my attic that I never look
Speaker 2: at what. To me, it was like why did I
Speaker 2: do that?
Speaker 1: But they take a lot of real estate really.
Speaker 2: Oh and this bear was massive. It was my first
Speaker 2: bear ever and it was my biggest bear still to
Speaker 2: the Oh, that's huge. So yeah, you have to have
Speaker 2: a big wall to put that thing on it. But
Speaker 2: but the other the other hides that I take, I'll
Speaker 2: usually just get them tanned and hang them, hang them
Speaker 2: up in a display or something. It's kind of neat
Speaker 2: to have, just like some bear hides hanging if you're
Speaker 2: into that thing or that sort of thing. But the meat,
Speaker 2: we eat it almost I'm almost all of it. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's it's great stuff. I don't like cut bear steaks
Speaker 2: out of it, but right, well, sometimes we'll I'll cut
Speaker 2: some roasts and then I'll slow cook them and shred
Speaker 2: them and eat it more like a pulled pork or
Speaker 2: slow cook it on a shred on a trigger, and
Speaker 2: so it's you know, like you're doing a like a
Speaker 2: pork shoulder or something. Yeah, we'll cube it up, throw
Speaker 2: it in and make chili out of it, or a
Speaker 2: stew or like a pot pie, which is really good.
Speaker 1: That sounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is good, and a lot of it. I'll
Speaker 2: just grind, just have a spice mix that I use
Speaker 2: and grind it into breakfast sausage and it makes and
Speaker 2: I'll add some bacon ends to that as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is really good. I bet it's my daughter's favorite
Speaker 2: breakfast meat by far. She likes bacon, but she loves
Speaker 2: spare of sausage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same same recipe with my Mountain Lion grind
Speaker 1: stuff is made breakfast sausage with the spices in the
Speaker 1: and the bacon INDs, and my hands down the best
Speaker 1: best thing I've ever had, you know, as far as
Speaker 1: sausage goes. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good. And then the fat, like if
Speaker 2: it's a fat bear, fall bears are typically better for this,
Speaker 2: but spring bears can be as well. I'll render the
Speaker 2: fat which is very simple process. You know. I thought
Speaker 2: it would take more effort, more work than what it
Speaker 2: actually actually does. But basically, just chop cube it up,
Speaker 2: put it in a crockpot on low or several crock pots,
Speaker 2: and then just strain the liquids out and and and
Speaker 2: put them in a jar. And it kind of comes
Speaker 2: out like this clear, kind of golden liquid. But then
Speaker 2: it solidifies into this nice white, creamy like shortening mhm.
Speaker 2: And we just store it in these mason jars and
Speaker 2: our freezer and just pull that stuff out whenever we
Speaker 2: need anything that requires shortening, or you want to short
Speaker 2: fry something like eggs or seer if you have a
Speaker 2: nice elkcrow so you you know, you slow cooked on
Speaker 2: the on the grill and you want to like reverse
Speaker 2: syr it, I'll see it and bear fat, oh wow,
Speaker 2: or rub a little on your baked potato before you
Speaker 2: bake them. It just gets those the the skin's nice
Speaker 2: and crispy. But my wife makes uh like biscuits with it.
Speaker 2: It though, like pastries. Pie crust makes an amazing pie crust.
Speaker 2: It's phenomenal. I was very skeptical of it at first.
Speaker 2: She made a pie crust and I'm a convert.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, My my uncle he always used to swear
Speaker 1: by that he used it for everything. You know, he's
Speaker 1: any and he said the same exact thing. He's like,
Speaker 1: if you want really good pie crest, you make it
Speaker 1: with bear bear grease. But he would like he put
Speaker 1: it on his boots, he would put it in and
Speaker 1: he was for stuff to bake with. He would cook
Speaker 1: with it, like he used that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a lost art sometimes. But I
Speaker 1: think I think, you know, you know, like Clay Newcom,
Speaker 1: you know, he's got a really big large audience in
Speaker 1: his podcast and he talks about all the cool stuff
Speaker 1: you can do with bear grease, well bear Grease podcast.
Speaker 1: But but I think there's people are starting to understand,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, bears are very edible, and they're
Speaker 1: very desirable to hunt, to hunt to eat. They're just
Speaker 1: not I feel like at some point bears might have
Speaker 1: got a bad rap, you know, stupid bears not fit
Speaker 1: to eat. Like I've heard people say that, like I
Speaker 1: would never eat a greasy old bear. I'm like, really,
Speaker 1: the bear meat I've had amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it comes down to what they've been eating. Oh,
Speaker 2: so I think if it's been if it's been eating
Speaker 2: salmon out of the Alaskan salmon stream for three months,
Speaker 2: I bet it's gonna taste like fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not gonna be good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could probably not gonna want to eat that.
Speaker 2: But if it's been eating huckleberries for three months, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what. When I cut up a fall bear,
Speaker 2: it smells like fruit. I mean the meat literally smells
Speaker 2: like fruit. It is amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, Well, huckleberries are very overpowering scent and flavor
Speaker 1: profile as well. Like if you have huckleberries and if
Speaker 1: even if you like double ziplock bag them in the freezer,
Speaker 1: you you crack your freezer open. A few weeks later,
Speaker 1: it's like, dang, I smell huckleberries in the freezer, Like
Speaker 1: they're like potent.
Speaker 2: Yeah they are.
Speaker 1: So that's no surprise that a bear, a bear's meat
Speaker 1: and fat with smell.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's it's it smells really good
Speaker 2: and it tastes good too. I haven't I've never had
Speaker 2: a bad one. I did kill a bear. So they
Speaker 2: used to. Montana used to like offer these trick andella
Speaker 2: test kits and you would like cut off you cut
Speaker 2: out a chunk of the tongue and put it and
Speaker 2: they had like a little ziplock with some salt, and
Speaker 2: you throw it in the bag and seal it up
Speaker 2: and send it off to the lab and you get
Speaker 2: your test results back. Well, I found out that most bears,
Speaker 2: most bears in Montana have it just the degree that
Speaker 2: what they have it, like the the density of the
Speaker 2: cysts in them. This one particular bear, it was a
Speaker 2: pretty old male. I had sent the test off and
Speaker 2: I got a phone call. It was like a Sunday afternoon,
Speaker 2: I remember as a spring, warm spring day. I happened
Speaker 2: to be in the house getting a drink of water
Speaker 2: or something, and the phone rings and it's the guy
Speaker 2: from the lab in Billings. He's like, Hey, I'm just
Speaker 2: calling you about your bear. He's like, yeah, what do
Speaker 2: you what's going on? He's like, yeah, have you have
Speaker 2: you done anything in that thing yet? Like, Nope, haven't.
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of it's in my freezer. I've been
Speaker 2: waiting to get the results. He's like, Oh, don't don't
Speaker 2: eat that bear. That thing has one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: eight larva per milligram of it in its tissue. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: a milligram of tissue is tiny. And he was counting.
Speaker 2: He counted up to one hundred and twenty eight per
Speaker 2: per milligram. He's like, go ahead and throw that bear away.
Speaker 2: You've got our permission to not utilize the meat.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: That could good to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is good to know.
Speaker 2: So there is that that aspect of it could be
Speaker 2: off putting to some people.
Speaker 1: Right, so that's why you got to cook it well done? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, you just cook it. Yeah, one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty degrees that's what they recommend.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I did see a chart one time. Depending upon it
Speaker 2: was the temperature and time, So if it was a
Speaker 2: lower temperature, it had to be a longer time. I
Speaker 2: don't know how valid that is. I don't even know
Speaker 2: where it came from. It could be just some guy
Speaker 2: on Pinterest made it up. I don't know, but I yeah,
Speaker 2: one sixty I think I've heard that is you know,
Speaker 2: to be safe. Okay, but if you're making breakfast sausage,
Speaker 2: you're going to cook it well done. And if you're
Speaker 2: making a pot pie. So everything that I make with
Speaker 2: bear meat, I make sure it's a dish that can
Speaker 2: be cooked well done. Yeah, and not you know, be ruined.
Speaker 1: Yep. I. We like to take take it and just
Speaker 1: kind of cut up in a little chunks, you know,
Speaker 1: they're about an inch and a half two inches in
Speaker 1: you know, almost like kind of nuggets, and then put
Speaker 1: him in a in an insta pot, right, put a
Speaker 1: bunch of seasoning on that, put in the insta pot,
Speaker 1: and so that'll cook it really fast. It'll like shorten
Speaker 1: the time instead of like sitting there for a few
Speaker 1: hours in a crock pot. Then it shortens that time
Speaker 1: and it breaks it, the meat down, it cooks, it
Speaker 1: kills everything in it. But then we make like a
Speaker 1: strogan off out of it, so you can put it
Speaker 1: over either noodles or rice, and it's it's amazing. My
Speaker 1: son in law, who's was raised non hunting in a
Speaker 1: non hunting family, never had wild meat before until he
Speaker 1: became part of our family, and he's had deer, elk
Speaker 1: and everything. But when he had that bear strogan off,
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my god, this is like the best
Speaker 1: thing I've ever eaten in my life.
Speaker 2: Is so nice. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: Should try that your recipes there here later on after
Speaker 1: you kill your big spring bear or not. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean not. You may decide not to shoot a big
Speaker 1: screen spring bear.
Speaker 2: Just that's true. Yeah, I might. I think I think
Speaker 2: it's time. Actually, it is time. I'm out of Bear
Speaker 2: breakfast sausage. Oh so yeah, yeah, it's time time. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another thing I really want to try and i've I've
Speaker 2: never done it is can some of it? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I've heard. I've heard people canning it, like Cody Rich
Speaker 2: I think, is talking about cannon bear and uh, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of curious. Sounds good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, elk meat. I'll can elk meat like I'll
Speaker 1: take the neck meat, you know, which is always kind
Speaker 1: of tough and get weird, and especially on a big bowl.
Speaker 1: Then I found though that the smaller the pieces you
Speaker 1: cut it, the better it's going to turn out. So
Speaker 1: like that one and a half one and a half
Speaker 1: two inch you know, nuggets or whatever is optimal. If
Speaker 1: you put bigger you know, about the size of smaller
Speaker 1: than a golf ball, let's say, if it's any bigger
Speaker 1: than a golf ball, then it doesn't break it down
Speaker 1: as good, especially on that really tough cuts. But man,
Speaker 1: you stuff, you stuff a mason jar completely full, like
Speaker 1: as much meat as you can but leave enough room
Speaker 1: at the top. And I just simply I take like
Speaker 1: a spoonful of Montreal steak seasoning, dump in there, screw
Speaker 1: the lid on, and then you then you can it
Speaker 1: and when you take it out, it's like the best
Speaker 1: beef pot roast you've ever had in your life. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: So I can I can imagine like bear would be
Speaker 1: the same thing, and probably probably but better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bears a pretty rich meat. Yeah, yeah, I could
Speaker 2: see how it would be really good canned.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, I'll try the shot. Yeah. Well, uh,
Speaker 1: we've hit over an hour here talking about bear hunting.
Speaker 1: I think probably get two or three hours really easy.
Speaker 1: But do you have any closing thoughts on on bear
Speaker 1: hunting to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 2: Hm? Yeah, I guess I would just say bear hunting
Speaker 2: is real hunting. I mean, there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: that poo poo it, and yeah, just just go try it.
Speaker 2: It's fun for a variety of reasons. I think it's
Speaker 2: super rewarding. So if people are thinking about it, Kimen
Speaker 2: and Han, they're on the fence, just try it out
Speaker 2: sometime and yeah, and just see see how it fits you.
Speaker 2: And it might not fit you, but you might just
Speaker 2: become smitten with it and just want to do it.
Speaker 2: Every spring when the flowers start blooming and the green
Speaker 2: hillside start arriving, birds start singing. God, it's a great
Speaker 2: time to be out in the mountains. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: just say give it a shot if you're if you're
Speaker 2: a little bit curious about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I agree with that one hundred percent. I
Speaker 1: don't know how many times I've been out in the spring,
Speaker 1: whether it's bear hunting, turkey hunting, whatever, horn hunting, morrell
Speaker 1: mushroom hunting. You just like you'll be there'll be a
Speaker 1: very moment in time where you're like sitting on a
Speaker 1: warm hillside and the temperature is just perfect and you
Speaker 1: hear the birds chirping and everything. It's like, man, what
Speaker 1: a time to be alive. This is awesome. And usually
Speaker 1: those are the trips. May I may or may not
Speaker 1: even see a bear, turkey, mushroom or whatever I'm after,
Speaker 1: but it's just so fun to be on the springtime.
Speaker 1: It's my second favorite season. September is my favorite season,
Speaker 1: of course, but the springtime is a close, very close second.
Speaker 2: I'm with you one hundred percent. Yeah, September and then
Speaker 2: like May. Just the smells too. Man, the green leaves
Speaker 2: coming on, It's amazing. I love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the flower give the.
Speaker 2: Elk bugled and we had a season in May that
Speaker 2: would probably might be my favorite.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, thanks so much for coming
Speaker 1: on again. Josh, anybody want to look you up on Instagram?
Speaker 1: What's your handle on there?
Speaker 2: It is Josh Underscore BOYD Underscore mt as in Montana, okay,
Speaker 2: and pretty easy to find. I think if you just
Speaker 2: did a little search for Josh Boyd, it should pop up.
Speaker 1: And Josh uses Instagram like Instagram was made to be
Speaker 1: used right like when we back when we first started
Speaker 1: using Instagram, pretty pictures, I could cool little quote or
Speaker 1: something and like those kind of things. It's not all
Speaker 1: these razzle dazzle reels that you see now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I try.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate you know, your content on there, because
Speaker 1: it's it's still it's still really good.
Speaker 2: I try to steer clear of reels as much as possible.
Speaker 2: I just I'm not into it. But that's not the
Speaker 2: reason I joined Instagram. But yeah, or you, I guess
Speaker 2: people can find me on Rockslide too. You can hit
Speaker 2: me up there on that website rockslide dot com are
Speaker 2: Okay Slide, and I'm a staff writer over there. I
Speaker 2: do reviews and stuff. You can find me over there
Speaker 2: and use your names just Josh Boyd there as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, easy to easy to track down in those
Speaker 2: two spots. And that's about it.
Speaker 1: Sure, And uh, if you guys like reading, you know,
Speaker 1: articles and stuff, definitely give Josh's articles a read. I
Speaker 1: said it before another podcast, but Josh has a great,
Speaker 1: very good writing voice, and it makes for a good
Speaker 1: a good read. I always enjoyed your articles back when
Speaker 1: you used to write for Extreme Milk magazine for US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks man, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I always looked forward to your next articles, like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's it going to be this time? It is so good?
Speaker 1: So anyway, I won't I won't keep you anymore tonight,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your time. So we'll see everybody the
Speaker 1: next time.
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good? Thanks JR.
Speaker 1: M H. And then