1
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

2
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,240
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the

4
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: author of Emotional First Aid and I write the Dear

5
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 1: Guy advice column f TED. And this is Dear Therapists.

6
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: This week we're going to check in on a guest

7
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,080
Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,

8
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 1: a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

9
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is

10
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

11
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 1: In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed

12
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,239
Speaker 1: for the privacy of our guests. So today we're going

13
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 1: to check in with Diane. Her episode was called Diane's

14
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 1: Infertility Struggle, and she was struggling with recurrent pregnancy loss

15
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: and really wanting another child. She did have one daughter,

16
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: and there was the series of losses and with those

17
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 1: losses also some truly traumatic experiences. And what's really difficult

18
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: for her is that people around her, including in her family,

19
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: are having second and third children, and it is so

20
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,360
Speaker 1: painful for her when she keeps losing these pregnancies. Let's

21
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,320
Speaker 1: get a reminder of how the session went. So it's

22
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,000
Speaker 1: really hard because I had to go through Christmas and

23
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,920
Speaker 1: everything like not telling anybody. And so we went for

24
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: the ultrasound on Nearar's Eve and they just said, I'm sorry,

25
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, the baby stepped growing, and you know, I

26
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 1: was devastated and I cried and my husband he looked

27
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: like he was really upset, and I was like, oh

28
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 1: my gosh, he's finally showing emotion. The doctor left the

29
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 1: room or whatever, but he literally said to me, you

30
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: have one at home, right and I said yes, and

31
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: he goes, you'll have three kids before you know it.

32
00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: And I was like, what, this is so invalidating and

33
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: so upsetting. And then then you know, they go and

34
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,320
Speaker 1: let yourself out the back door, because nobody wants a

35
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:13,920
Speaker 1: crying person to walk through the waiting room. You're listening

36
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 1: to dea. Therapists will be back after a short break,

37
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 1: and now let's hear how things are going for Diane.

38
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: A year later, a few months after recording my episode,

39
00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 1: I was so excited to discover that I was pregnant.

40
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: It finally felt like the supplements and acupuncture had worked.

41
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: I cautiously told my husband the good news, and he

42
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: was immediately excited and insisted on talking about names right away.

43
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: I was scared to get too excited, but I was

44
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 1: still hopeful with my history of loss. I went in

45
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 1: a couple of days later for blood work and it

46
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,919
Speaker 1: was low, but still in the normal range. Two days later,

47
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 1: I started cramping and my second h c G level

48
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: came back that night, indicating impending miscarriage. We were devastated.

49
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,359
Speaker 1: I found out about this from checking my chart online.

50
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: I never once received a call from my doctor. The

51
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 1: very next morning, I started heavy cramping and miscarried. It

52
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,679
Speaker 1: was truly horrific. I was literally miscarrying while my six

53
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 1: year old daughter was having a tantrum and wanted to

54
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: come in the bathroom to see me. My husband had

55
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 1: to hold her in the hallway to keep her from

56
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 1: busting in. I heard her crying and screaming while I

57
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 1: started sobbing for the fourth child I had lost. Anyone

58
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 1: who's experienced a miscarriage knows how incredibly painful it is. Physically.

59
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: All I wanted to do was just lay on the

60
00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 1: couch and rest and grieve, but It also happened to

61
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 1: me my daughter's first ever dance recital, so I had

62
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 1: to put her outfit on, do her hair, put a

63
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 1: smile on, and go sit in an auditorium and watched

64
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: three hours of dance. In some ways, I was grateful

65
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: for the distraction, and it sort of resulted in me

66
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: mentally dismissing it as not that big of a deal.

67
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 1: Life had to go on, but it really was, and

68
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: when the numbness wore off, I got into a really

69
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,360
Speaker 1: bad place. I lost a major friend group of other moms.

70
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,359
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to hear talks of pregnancy or

71
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 1: sibling interactions, and it was almost too much for these

72
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 1: friends that their lives were triggering me in this depth

73
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: of despair. It re emphasized for me just how isolating

74
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,120
Speaker 1: pregnancy loss is. After that experience, I also ended up

75
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,160
Speaker 1: switching hospital systems and doctors after them never calling me

76
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,720
Speaker 1: to ask me how I was, or even to just

77
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,680
Speaker 1: give me the number. Had I not seen my chart

78
00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 1: on that Friday night, I wouldn't have been prepared for

79
00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: what started happening on Saturday. My new oh b G

80
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: I N, who came recommended from several friends, discovered that

81
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 1: I had a gene mutation that results in certain deficiencies

82
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 1: of like B six and B twelve, and so since

83
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 1: I've started taking extra vitamins to support this deficiency, at

84
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,720
Speaker 1: least it provides some hope for the near future. I

85
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: am grateful that I was able to find an amazing

86
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,919
Speaker 1: therapist who specializes in grief, and so for the past

87
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 1: seven months I've been seeing her. Also, both my nieces

88
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 1: have since been born, the one who was in town,

89
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:44,040
Speaker 1: we see a lot, and I have definitely appreciated enjoying

90
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,919
Speaker 1: the cute baby moments without having to deal with the

91
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 1: messy diapers or being up at night with her, and

92
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,840
Speaker 1: so I feel like I've had some more glimpses of

93
00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 1: the positives of only having one child. My daughter still

94
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: talks about having siblings all the time. She's even had

95
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,159
Speaker 1: a few really heavy sobs about how she just wants

96
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,400
Speaker 1: to have you know, siblings with her at our house.

97
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: She even asked me one night, how come you know

98
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 1: Aunt X and why can have babies in their tummies

99
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,480
Speaker 1: but you can't. So sometimes I cry with her about it,

100
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: and other days I just point out the benefits of

101
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,039
Speaker 1: her being the only kid in our family. But my

102
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,280
Speaker 1: daughter recently had a school assignment where she had to

103
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: write I am lucky because and she wrote I am

104
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,839
Speaker 1: lucky because I'm an only child. So that was nice

105
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: to see a little hard to see, but also kind

106
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 1: of nice that she, you know, found a good in

107
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: it as well. I was really nervous to really listen

108
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,280
Speaker 1: to my episode, but when I did, I realized it

109
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 1: was one of the first times all of my intricate

110
00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 1: feelings about loss and just an a acting with the

111
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 1: world as somebody who's experienced this, we're truly validated. Everything

112
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 1: that I struggled with Lorie and Guys said was normal

113
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: for someone grieving, and that was so important for me

114
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 1: to hear at the time, because I just kept feeling

115
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: like something was wrong with me, that I was experiencing

116
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,120
Speaker 1: all of these things. So I was so grateful to

117
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: feel heard and validated. As a result of my conversation

118
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 1: with Lorie and Guy, my communication with my husband is better.

119
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: I think this is probably one of the biggest things.

120
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 1: I just didn't realize how poor it was, and I

121
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: feel like we've been more open about things and have

122
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: been able to have better conversations. Another important insight that

123
00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 1: I gained was realizing how much my anxiety impacts my

124
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: day to day. So similar to how Guy kind of

125
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: pointed out that it was an underlying issue in my therapy,

126
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 1: has also pointed it out for different things that I

127
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: never would have really attributed to anxiety. So I'm grateful

128
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: for that to be able to find new ways to

129
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 1: cope with it. Just generally, I'm grateful that I was

130
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 1: able to talk to Laurian Guy. It helped me realize

131
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: that one, my feelings are very valid and there was

132
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with me. Too, that an anxiety was a

133
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: big part of my life and and still is. Three

134
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: that I needed to really improve communication with my husband,

135
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 1: and so I'm grateful that I've been able to do that,

136
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: and for just how beneficial a counseling session is and was,

137
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: and realizing how much better I felt after talking to

138
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 1: Laurie and Guy. I realized I really did want to

139
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 1: continue this weekly and so I'm grateful to have a

140
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: great therapist and to be able to have regular conversations.

141
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 1: So thank you again so much. I'm so glad I

142
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: was able to talk to you both. So I keep

143
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,679
Speaker 1: thinking about the experience she described of miscaring while her

144
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: daughter was right outside the room and wanted to come in,

145
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 1: and then how she went to that recital. And one

146
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: of the things that we talked about with her last

147
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: year was how invisible this kind of loss is and

148
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,959
Speaker 1: how isolating pregnancy loss is. A lot of people don't

149
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 1: understand the depth of the grief that you have because

150
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 1: people don't see it. You know, you lose a child,

151
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,320
Speaker 1: people say, oh, the child was here, the child's not here.

152
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,319
Speaker 1: But you lose a pregnancy, and you really suffer alone

153
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,839
Speaker 1: most of the time, and then when you go out

154
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,319
Speaker 1: in the world, there are those constant reminders of seeing

155
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 1: relatives or just another woman in Target or the grocery

156
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 1: store and she's pregnant, and it ruins your whole day.

157
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 1: She was talking about how important the emotional validation was

158
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: for her, and I'm so glad that we were able

159
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,679
Speaker 1: to help her see that, yes, what she experiencing wasn't

160
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: only normal, but it was important. It was important that

161
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 1: she was grieving these losses. I agree, Laurie. And what

162
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 1: really kind of pinched my heart a bit is that

163
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,679
Speaker 1: when she said that her conversation with us, despite her

164
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 1: losses and despite talking about them with physicians and family,

165
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 1: and her husband. It was the first time she felt

166
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: that all her emotions were validated. What really struck me

167
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 1: was how many women are out there that don't get that,

168
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: that don't have that experience, that are truly struggling alone,

169
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 1: and no one is really malidating all their experiences and

170
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: their feelings and their losses. It is such a difficult

171
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: thing to deal with, and we indeed got a huge

172
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 1: response to this episode because it's so common, because it's

173
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 1: so isolating, and and it's so painful on so many levels.

174
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 1: There's the physical pain, as she said, the emotional pain

175
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 1: they're recovering, nature of the uncertainty, the children you see

176
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 1: around you, you're only child saying I want siblings, I

177
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 1: want siblings, The impact on the couple's marriage. It just

178
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 1: shows how important this topic is, and I am so

179
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 1: glad we had the opportunity to speak with her. And

180
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 1: when we think about the impact on the marriage, her

181
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 1: husband was also going through his own way of dealing

182
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,320
Speaker 1: with the grief and the loss, and they hadn't really

183
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 1: been talking about it openly. They were both kind of

184
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 1: trying to protect both themselves and each other. And I

185
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 1: think this communication piece is so important, not only with

186
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: her husband, because now they can talk about not only

187
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 1: their options, but what this experience is like for each

188
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 1: of them as they go through what is truly a

189
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: roller coaster, as anybody whose experienced fertility challenges will realize.

190
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,640
Speaker 1: But it's also good that she's able to talk to

191
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 1: her daughter differently, because I think that there wasn't space

192
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,559
Speaker 1: before for her daughter to also grieve and have her sadness.

193
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,600
Speaker 1: And she said her daughter had some really big cries

194
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 1: about not having a sibling, and I think it's great

195
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 1: that she can sit with that, even though she has

196
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 1: a lot of feelings herself around that, because it allowed

197
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 1: for her daughter to then have some positive experiences of

198
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 1: being an only child as well. If you can allow

199
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: for the sadness, if you can allow for the loss,

200
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 1: if you can give that space, then her daughter can

201
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 1: also make some space for and there are some good

202
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 1: parts to this too, and she can hold the both

203
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,679
Speaker 1: and which is what we were asking Diane to do

204
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 1: as well. I agree with that. And lastly, it's so

205
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,200
Speaker 1: good to hear that she's paying more attention to her

206
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,120
Speaker 1: anxiety and that she's even able to catch anxious thoughts

207
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 1: and label them as such and see them for what

208
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 1: they are. And then I noticed that she's also doing

209
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 1: a lot of reframing. For example, when she hangs out

210
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: with her sister and the new baby. Yes, I'm sure

211
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: it really hurts still, but she can see that I

212
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,280
Speaker 1: can enjoy nonetheless some of those cute baby moments even so,

213
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 1: and that's really positive to hear, and that's not easy

214
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 1: to do. And I think the takeaway here is that

215
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 1: when you get validation for your internal experiences and emotions,

216
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 1: both externally from people who matter, but also internally, when

217
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 1: you're doing that for yourself, it really makes it a

218
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: little bit easier to deal with the challenges and difficulties.

219
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 1: And we know that this is going to be an

220
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,680
Speaker 1: ongoing struggle for her and it will still be painful,

221
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 1: but because she's in touch with her feelings, she'll be

222
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 1: able to express them and she'll be able to connect

223
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,800
Speaker 1: with the people around her and not feel so isolated.

224
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 1: Next week, we're in session with sisters Sandra and Kim,

225
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 1: who discover a family secret that their parents held for

226
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: sixty years. I internally just felt like there's something that's

227
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: not right here. We were asked our whole lives, if

228
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: we have the same parents. If you're enjoying our podcast,

229
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,440
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe for free so that you don't

230
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 1: miss any episodes, and please help support Dear Therapists by

231
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 1: telling your friends about it and leaving a review on

232
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to find the show.

233
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

234
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 1: email us at Lorie and Guy at I heart media

235
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: dot com. Our executive producer is Noel Brown. Were produced

236
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 1: and edited by Josh Fisher, additional editing support by Helena Rosen,

237
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 1: John Washington and Zachary Fisher. Are Interns are Ben Bernstein,

238
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 1: Emily Guccierrez and Silver Lifton. And special thanks to our

239
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 1: podcast fairy Godmother Katie Curic. You can't wait to see

240
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: you at our next session. Dear Therapists is a production

241
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Fish Food