1 00:01:09,389 --> 00:01:12,669 Speaker 1: Hey, dear therapist listeners, it's Lori and Guy, and we 2 00:01:12,699 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: have a quick update. 3 00:01:13,839 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something 4 00:01:16,099 --> 00:01:18,459 Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it 5 00:01:18,499 --> 00:01:21,819 Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we 6 00:01:21,859 --> 00:01:24,789 Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we 7 00:01:24,829 --> 00:01:25,829 Speaker 2: didn't remember were there. 8 00:01:26,109 --> 00:01:28,849 Speaker 1: Therapy is like that too. There are so many learning 9 00:01:28,889 --> 00:01:31,429 Speaker 1: moments in a session and it's difficult to absorb them 10 00:01:31,489 --> 00:01:34,369 Speaker 1: all at once. So while we're not taping new episodes 11 00:01:34,449 --> 00:01:38,029 Speaker 1: right now, we are offering you our most popular sessions 12 00:01:38,129 --> 00:01:41,029 Speaker 1: as encores so that you can continue to gain value 13 00:01:41,069 --> 00:01:41,449 Speaker 1: from them. 14 00:01:41,789 --> 00:01:45,299 Speaker 2: We love doing Dear Therapists episodes, but we're each busy 15 00:01:45,339 --> 00:01:47,979 Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects and that we hope you 16 00:01:48,019 --> 00:01:49,119 Speaker 2: will love just as much. 17 00:01:49,539 --> 00:01:52,659 Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked, 18 00:01:52,839 --> 00:01:55,139 Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts. 19 00:01:55,399 --> 00:01:58,149 Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called 20 00:01:58,569 --> 00:02:02,909 Speaker 2: Mind Over Grind, How to Break Free When Work Hijacks 21 00:02:02,929 --> 00:02:06,049 Speaker 2: Your Life. And it will be published by Simon & Schuster. 22 00:02:06,489 --> 00:02:09,719 Speaker 2: You can find out more about it on my website, guywench.com. 23 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:13,479 Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile, 24 00:02:13,779 --> 00:02:16,619 Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable 25 00:02:16,659 --> 00:02:23,339 Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. I'm Lori Gottlieb. 26 00:02:23,819 --> 00:02:25,909 Speaker 1: I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, 27 00:02:26,249 --> 00:02:29,049 Speaker 1: and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic. 28 00:02:29,549 --> 00:02:32,709 Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, 29 00:02:33,069 --> 00:02:35,209 Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for TED. 30 00:02:35,629 --> 00:02:40,009 Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists. This week, we're going to 31 00:02:40,049 --> 00:02:42,009 Speaker 2: check in on a guest from season two to hear 32 00:02:42,069 --> 00:02:43,449 Speaker 2: how they're doing a year later. 33 00:02:44,549 --> 00:02:48,049 Speaker 1: First, a quick note. Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only. 34 00:02:48,549 --> 00:02:51,669 Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is 35 00:02:51,709 --> 00:02:55,289 Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 36 00:02:55,749 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed 37 00:02:58,149 --> 00:02:59,539 Speaker 1: for the privacy of our guests. 38 00:03:01,019 --> 00:03:04,139 Speaker 2: So today we're going to check in with Diane. Her 39 00:03:04,179 --> 00:03:08,879 Speaker 2: episode was called Diane's Infertility Struggle. And she was struggling 40 00:03:08,959 --> 00:03:13,459 Speaker 2: with recurrent pregnancy loss and really wanting another child. She 41 00:03:13,499 --> 00:03:16,659 Speaker 2: did have one daughter and there was these series of losses. 42 00:03:17,299 --> 00:03:22,159 Speaker 2: And with those losses were also some truly traumatic experiences. 43 00:03:22,519 --> 00:03:25,379 Speaker 2: And what's really difficult for her is that people around her, 44 00:03:25,449 --> 00:03:29,649 Speaker 2: including in her family, are having second and third children. 45 00:03:29,909 --> 00:03:32,329 Speaker 2: And it is so painful for her when she keeps 46 00:03:32,409 --> 00:03:36,269 Speaker 2: losing these pregnancies. Let's get a reminder of how the 47 00:03:36,289 --> 00:03:36,689 Speaker 2: session went. 48 00:03:37,789 --> 00:03:38,929 Speaker 3: So it was really hard because I had to go 49 00:03:38,949 --> 00:03:43,929 Speaker 3: through Christmas and everything, like not telling anybody. And so 50 00:03:43,969 --> 00:03:48,319 Speaker 3: we went for the ultrasound on New Year's Eve and 51 00:03:49,219 --> 00:03:53,359 Speaker 3: they just said, I'm sorry, you know, the baby stopped growing. 52 00:03:54,299 --> 00:03:57,039 Speaker 3: And I, you know, I was devastated and I cried. 53 00:03:57,099 --> 00:04:00,039 Speaker 3: And my husband, he looked like he was really upset. 54 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:03,559 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my gosh, he's finally showing emotion. 55 00:04:04,399 --> 00:04:08,469 Speaker 3: The doctor left the room or whatever. But He literally 56 00:04:08,529 --> 00:04:10,889 Speaker 3: said to me, you have one at home, right? 57 00:04:10,969 --> 00:04:11,709 Speaker 2: And I said, yes. 58 00:04:11,789 --> 00:04:14,549 Speaker 3: And he goes, you'll have three kids. 59 00:04:14,409 --> 00:04:16,879 Speaker 1: Before you know it. And I was like, what? 60 00:04:17,729 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 3: This is so invalidating and so upsetting. And then they go, 61 00:04:22,519 --> 00:04:24,979 Speaker 3: let yourself out the back door because nobody wants a 62 00:04:25,019 --> 00:04:26,619 Speaker 3: crying person to walk through the waiting room. 63 00:04:31,979 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 2: You're listening to Dear Therapists. We'll be back after a 64 00:04:35,159 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: short break. 65 00:04:47,819 --> 00:04:49,699 Speaker 1: And now let's hear how things are going for Diane 66 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:50,379 Speaker 1: a year later. 67 00:04:50,399 --> 00:04:55,139 Speaker 3: A few months after recording my episode, I was so 68 00:04:55,239 --> 00:04:58,509 Speaker 3: excited to discover that I was pregnant. It finally felt 69 00:04:58,539 --> 00:05:02,789 Speaker 3: like the supplements and acupuncture had worked. I cautiously told 70 00:05:02,809 --> 00:05:05,749 Speaker 3: my husband the good news and he was immediately excited 71 00:05:05,769 --> 00:05:09,649 Speaker 3: and insisted on talking about names right away. I was 72 00:05:09,689 --> 00:05:11,929 Speaker 3: scared to get too excited, but I was still hopeful. 73 00:05:12,569 --> 00:05:14,509 Speaker 3: With my history of loss, I went in a couple 74 00:05:14,549 --> 00:05:16,899 Speaker 3: days later for blood work, and it was low but 75 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 3: still in the normal range. Two days later, I started cramping, 76 00:05:21,359 --> 00:05:24,539 Speaker 3: and my second HCG level came back that night indicating 77 00:05:24,619 --> 00:05:29,259 Speaker 3: impending miscarriage. We were devastated. I found out about this 78 00:05:29,499 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: from checking my chart online. I never once received a 79 00:05:32,859 --> 00:05:36,869 Speaker 3: call from my doctor. The very next morning, I started 80 00:05:36,939 --> 00:05:41,569 Speaker 3: heavy cramping and miscarried. It was truly horrific. I was 81 00:05:41,649 --> 00:05:46,089 Speaker 3: literally miscarrying while my six-year-old daughter was having a tantrum 82 00:05:46,569 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 3: and wanted to come in the bathroom to see me. 83 00:05:48,779 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 3: My husband had to hold her in the hallway to 84 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:54,519 Speaker 3: keep her from busting in. I heard her crying and 85 00:05:54,599 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 3: screaming while I started sobbing for the fourth child I 86 00:05:57,939 --> 00:06:02,259 Speaker 3: had lost. Anyone who's experienced a miscarriage knows how incredibly 87 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:06,419 Speaker 3: painful it is physically. All I wanted to do was 88 00:06:06,459 --> 00:06:09,389 Speaker 3: just lay on the couch and rest and grieve. But 89 00:06:09,409 --> 00:06:12,769 Speaker 3: it also happened to be my daughter's first ever dance recital. 90 00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:15,319 Speaker 3: So I had to put her outfit on, do her hair, 91 00:06:15,799 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 3: put a smile on, and go sit in an auditorium 92 00:06:19,099 --> 00:06:22,259 Speaker 3: and watch three hours of dance. In some ways, I 93 00:06:22,299 --> 00:06:26,519 Speaker 3: was grateful for the distraction. And it sort of resulted 94 00:06:26,609 --> 00:06:29,609 Speaker 3: in me mentally dismissing it as not that big of 95 00:06:29,649 --> 00:06:34,149 Speaker 3: a deal. Life had to go on. But it really was. 96 00:06:34,349 --> 00:06:36,389 Speaker 3: And when the numbness wore off, I got into a 97 00:06:36,429 --> 00:06:41,079 Speaker 3: really bad place. I lost a major friend group of 98 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,579 Speaker 3: other moms. I just didn't want to hear talks of 99 00:06:44,779 --> 00:06:50,199 Speaker 3: pregnancy or sibling interactions. And it was almost too much 100 00:06:50,299 --> 00:06:53,999 Speaker 3: for these friends that their lives were triggering me in 101 00:06:54,039 --> 00:06:58,519 Speaker 3: this depth of despair. It re-emphasized for me just how 102 00:06:58,679 --> 00:07:04,639 Speaker 3: isolating pregnancy loss is. After that experience, I also ended 103 00:07:04,719 --> 00:07:09,129 Speaker 3: up switching hospital systems and doctors and After them never 104 00:07:09,249 --> 00:07:13,009 Speaker 3: calling me to ask me how I was or even 105 00:07:13,069 --> 00:07:15,829 Speaker 3: to just give me the number, had I not seen 106 00:07:15,869 --> 00:07:17,819 Speaker 3: my chart on that Friday night, I wouldn't have been 107 00:07:17,859 --> 00:07:22,859 Speaker 3: prepared for what started happening on Saturday. My new OB-GYN, 108 00:07:22,939 --> 00:07:26,819 Speaker 3: who came recommended from several friends, discovered that I had 109 00:07:26,859 --> 00:07:32,339 Speaker 3: a gene mutation that results in certain deficiencies of like 110 00:07:32,379 --> 00:07:35,729 Speaker 3: B6 and B12 and And so since I've started taking 111 00:07:35,869 --> 00:07:40,769 Speaker 3: extra vitamins to support this deficiency, at least it provides 112 00:07:40,849 --> 00:07:44,309 Speaker 3: some hope for the near future. I am grateful that 113 00:07:44,329 --> 00:07:47,409 Speaker 3: I was able to find an amazing therapist who specializes 114 00:07:47,469 --> 00:07:51,299 Speaker 3: in grief. And so for the past seven months, I've 115 00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 3: been seeing her. Also, both my nieces have since been born. 116 00:07:56,359 --> 00:07:58,019 Speaker 3: The one who is in town, we see a lot. 117 00:07:59,229 --> 00:08:03,969 Speaker 3: And I have definitely appreciated enjoying the cute baby moments 118 00:08:04,629 --> 00:08:07,929 Speaker 3: without having to deal with the messy diapers or being 119 00:08:08,049 --> 00:08:11,699 Speaker 3: up at night with her. And so I feel like 120 00:08:11,739 --> 00:08:15,199 Speaker 3: I've had some more glimpses of the positives of only 121 00:08:15,259 --> 00:08:21,219 Speaker 3: having one child. My daughter still talks about having siblings 122 00:08:21,259 --> 00:08:25,219 Speaker 3: all the time. She's even had a few really heavy 123 00:08:25,299 --> 00:08:28,689 Speaker 3: sobs about how She just wants to have, you know, 124 00:08:28,769 --> 00:08:32,879 Speaker 3: siblings with her at our house. She even asked me 125 00:08:32,969 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: one night, how come, you know, Aunt X and Aunt 126 00:08:35,619 --> 00:08:37,659 Speaker 3: Y can have babies in their tummies, but you can't? 127 00:08:38,499 --> 00:08:41,459 Speaker 3: So sometimes I cry with her about it. And other 128 00:08:41,499 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 3: days I just point out the benefits of her being 129 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:47,489 Speaker 3: the only kid in our family. But my daughter recently 130 00:08:47,509 --> 00:08:49,429 Speaker 3: had a school assignment where she had to write, I 131 00:08:49,469 --> 00:08:52,669 Speaker 3: am lucky because, and she wrote, I am lucky because 132 00:08:52,729 --> 00:08:57,049 Speaker 3: I am an only child. So that was nice to see, 133 00:08:57,069 --> 00:09:00,609 Speaker 3: a little hard to see, but also kind of nice 134 00:09:00,669 --> 00:09:04,709 Speaker 3: that she found the good in it as well. I 135 00:09:04,759 --> 00:09:08,279 Speaker 3: was really nervous to re-listen to my episode, but when 136 00:09:08,359 --> 00:09:11,279 Speaker 3: I did, I realized it was one of the first 137 00:09:11,339 --> 00:09:18,259 Speaker 3: times all of my intricate feelings about loss and just 138 00:09:18,579 --> 00:09:22,219 Speaker 3: interacting with the world as somebody who's experienced this were 139 00:09:22,279 --> 00:09:25,869 Speaker 3: truly validated. Everything that I struggled with, Lori and Guy 140 00:09:25,889 --> 00:09:28,789 Speaker 3: said was normal for someone grieving. And that was so 141 00:09:28,929 --> 00:09:31,449 Speaker 3: important for me to hear at the time because I 142 00:09:31,509 --> 00:09:34,349 Speaker 3: just kept feeling like something was wrong with me that 143 00:09:34,509 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 3: I was experiencing all of these things. So I was 144 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: so grateful to feel heard and validated. As a result 145 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,029 Speaker 3: of my conversation with Lori and Guy, my communication with 146 00:09:48,069 --> 00:09:51,609 Speaker 3: my husband is better. I think this is probably one 147 00:09:51,649 --> 00:09:54,919 Speaker 3: of the biggest things. I just didn't realize how poor 148 00:09:54,969 --> 00:09:59,059 Speaker 3: it was. And I feel like we've been more open 149 00:09:59,139 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: about things and have been able to have better conversations. 150 00:10:03,759 --> 00:10:09,039 Speaker 3: Another important insight that I gained was realizing how much 151 00:10:09,079 --> 00:10:13,359 Speaker 3: my anxiety impacts my day to day. So similar to 152 00:10:13,459 --> 00:10:16,749 Speaker 3: how Guy kind of pointed out that it was an 153 00:10:16,849 --> 00:10:20,029 Speaker 3: underlying issue. And my therapist has also pointed it out 154 00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:23,069 Speaker 3: for different things that I never would have really attributed 155 00:10:23,189 --> 00:10:27,239 Speaker 3: to anxiety. So I'm grateful for that to be able 156 00:10:27,319 --> 00:10:31,279 Speaker 3: to find new ways to cope with it. Just generally, 157 00:10:31,299 --> 00:10:33,799 Speaker 3: I'm grateful that I was able to talk to Laurie 158 00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:36,739 Speaker 3: and Guy. It helped me realize that one, my feelings 159 00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:40,069 Speaker 3: are very valid and there was nothing wrong with me. Two, 160 00:10:40,109 --> 00:10:42,769 Speaker 3: that anxiety was a big part of my life and 161 00:10:42,869 --> 00:10:47,149 Speaker 3: still is. Three, that I needed to really improve communication 162 00:10:47,169 --> 00:10:49,069 Speaker 3: with my husband. And so I'm grateful that I've been 163 00:10:49,089 --> 00:10:53,169 Speaker 3: able to do that. And four, just how beneficial a 164 00:10:54,249 --> 00:10:58,729 Speaker 3: counseling session is and was and realizing how much better 165 00:10:58,769 --> 00:11:02,529 Speaker 3: I felt after talking to Lori and Guy. I realized 166 00:11:02,609 --> 00:11:05,649 Speaker 3: I really did want to continue this weekly. And so 167 00:11:06,189 --> 00:11:08,909 Speaker 3: I'm grateful to have a great therapist and to be 168 00:11:08,989 --> 00:11:13,989 Speaker 3: able to to have regular conversations. So thank you again 169 00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:16,589 Speaker 3: so much. I'm so glad I was able to talk 170 00:11:16,629 --> 00:11:16,949 Speaker 3: to you both. 171 00:11:22,549 --> 00:11:25,869 Speaker 1: I keep thinking about the experience she described of miscarrying 172 00:11:25,909 --> 00:11:28,629 Speaker 1: while her daughter was right outside the room and wanted 173 00:11:28,669 --> 00:11:32,039 Speaker 1: to come in and then how she went to that recital. 174 00:11:33,179 --> 00:11:35,059 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we talked about with 175 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:38,799 Speaker 1: her last year was how invisible this kind of loss 176 00:11:39,059 --> 00:11:42,819 Speaker 1: is and how isolating pregnancy loss is. A lot of 177 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:49,699 Speaker 1: people don't understand the depth of the grief that you 178 00:11:49,759 --> 00:11:53,059 Speaker 1: have because people don't see it. You know, you lose 179 00:11:53,099 --> 00:11:55,059 Speaker 1: a child. People say, oh, the child was here. The 180 00:11:55,099 --> 00:11:58,749 Speaker 1: child's not here. But you lose a pregnancy and you 181 00:11:58,829 --> 00:12:02,069 Speaker 1: really suffer alone most of the time. And then when 182 00:12:02,089 --> 00:12:04,609 Speaker 1: you go out in the world, there are those constant 183 00:12:04,659 --> 00:12:08,819 Speaker 1: reminders of seeing relatives or just another woman in Target 184 00:12:08,919 --> 00:12:12,019 Speaker 1: or the grocery store and she's pregnant and it ruins 185 00:12:12,039 --> 00:12:15,389 Speaker 1: your whole day. She was talking about how important the 186 00:12:15,429 --> 00:12:18,189 Speaker 1: emotional validation was for her. And I'm so glad that 187 00:12:18,209 --> 00:12:20,749 Speaker 1: we were able to help her see that, yes, what 188 00:12:20,809 --> 00:12:25,419 Speaker 1: she experiencing wasn't only normal, but it was important. It 189 00:12:25,439 --> 00:12:27,539 Speaker 1: was important that she was grieving these losses. 190 00:12:28,439 --> 00:12:31,999 Speaker 2: I agree, Lori. And what really kind of pinched my 191 00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:35,289 Speaker 2: heart a bit is that when she said that her 192 00:12:35,319 --> 00:12:39,029 Speaker 2: conversation with us, despite her losses and despite talking about 193 00:12:39,049 --> 00:12:42,169 Speaker 2: them with physicians and family and her husband, It was 194 00:12:42,249 --> 00:12:46,969 Speaker 2: the first time she felt that all her emotions were validated. 195 00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:51,029 Speaker 2: What really struck me was how many women are out 196 00:12:51,089 --> 00:12:54,589 Speaker 2: there that don't get that, that don't have that experience, 197 00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:58,099 Speaker 2: that are truly struggling alone, and no one is really 198 00:12:58,139 --> 00:13:01,859 Speaker 2: validating all their experiences and their feelings and their losses. 199 00:13:02,449 --> 00:13:04,749 Speaker 2: it is such a difficult thing to deal with. And 200 00:13:05,049 --> 00:13:09,249 Speaker 2: we indeed got a huge response to this episode because 201 00:13:09,309 --> 00:13:12,529 Speaker 2: it's so common, because it's so isolating and it's so 202 00:13:12,589 --> 00:13:15,939 Speaker 2: painful on so many levels. There's the physical pain, as 203 00:13:15,979 --> 00:13:20,249 Speaker 2: she said, the emotional pain, the recurring nature of the uncertainty, 204 00:13:20,349 --> 00:13:23,889 Speaker 2: the children you see around you, your only child saying, 205 00:13:23,909 --> 00:13:26,329 Speaker 2: I want siblings, I want siblings, the impact on the 206 00:13:26,789 --> 00:13:30,479 Speaker 2: couple's marriage. It just shows how important this topic is. 207 00:13:30,579 --> 00:13:32,919 Speaker 2: And I am so glad we had the opportunity to 208 00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:33,409 Speaker 2: speak with her. 209 00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:35,349 Speaker 1: And when we think about the impact on the marriage, 210 00:13:35,389 --> 00:13:38,769 Speaker 1: her husband was also going through his own way of 211 00:13:38,829 --> 00:13:41,659 Speaker 1: dealing with the grief and the loss. And they hadn't 212 00:13:41,729 --> 00:13:44,639 Speaker 1: really been talking about it openly. They were both kind 213 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,399 Speaker 1: of trying to protect both themselves and each other. And 214 00:13:48,419 --> 00:13:51,299 Speaker 1: I think this communication piece is so important, not only 215 00:13:51,339 --> 00:13:53,979 Speaker 1: with her husband, because now they can talk about not 216 00:13:54,019 --> 00:13:56,979 Speaker 1: only their options, but what this experience is like for 217 00:13:57,039 --> 00:13:59,339 Speaker 1: each of them as they go through what is truly traumatic. 218 00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:04,379 Speaker 1: roller coaster, as anybody who's experienced fertility challenges will realize. 219 00:14:05,459 --> 00:14:07,329 Speaker 1: But it's also good that she's able to talk to 220 00:14:07,369 --> 00:14:11,429 Speaker 1: her daughter differently because I think that there wasn't space 221 00:14:11,489 --> 00:14:15,189 Speaker 1: before for her daughter to also grieve and have her sadness. 222 00:14:15,249 --> 00:14:18,359 Speaker 1: And she said her daughter had some really big cries 223 00:14:18,779 --> 00:14:21,359 Speaker 1: about not having a sibling. And I think it's great 224 00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:23,659 Speaker 1: that she can sit with that, even though she has 225 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:27,019 Speaker 1: a lot of feelings herself around that, because it allowed 226 00:14:27,099 --> 00:14:31,629 Speaker 1: for her daughter to to then have some positive experiences 227 00:14:31,909 --> 00:14:33,709 Speaker 1: of being an only child as well. If you can 228 00:14:33,769 --> 00:14:36,349 Speaker 1: allow for the sadness, if you can allow for the loss, 229 00:14:36,369 --> 00:14:39,009 Speaker 1: if you can give that space, then her daughter can 230 00:14:39,129 --> 00:14:41,589 Speaker 1: also make some space for, and there are some good 231 00:14:41,629 --> 00:14:44,609 Speaker 1: parts to this too. And she can hold the both and, 232 00:14:44,669 --> 00:14:46,769 Speaker 1: which is what we were asking Diane to do as well. 233 00:14:47,409 --> 00:14:49,649 Speaker 2: I agree with that. And lastly, it's so good to 234 00:14:49,689 --> 00:14:53,149 Speaker 2: hear that she's paying more attention to her anxiety and 235 00:14:53,169 --> 00:14:56,609 Speaker 2: that she's even able to catch anxious thoughts and label 236 00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:58,949 Speaker 2: them as such and see them for what they are. 237 00:14:59,409 --> 00:15:01,249 Speaker 2: And then I noticed that she's also doing a lot 238 00:15:01,299 --> 00:15:03,939 Speaker 2: of reframing. For example, when she hangs out with her 239 00:15:03,999 --> 00:15:07,059 Speaker 2: sister and the new baby, yes, I'm sure it really 240 00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:10,519 Speaker 2: hurts still, but she can see that I can enjoy 241 00:15:10,539 --> 00:15:15,499 Speaker 2: nonetheless some of those cute baby moments even so. And 242 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:18,769 Speaker 2: that's really positive to hear and that's not easy to do. 243 00:15:18,999 --> 00:15:21,789 Speaker 2: And I think the takeaway here is that when you 244 00:15:21,869 --> 00:15:27,829 Speaker 2: get validation for your internal experiences and emotions, both externally 245 00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:32,489 Speaker 2: from people who matter, but also internally, when you're doing 246 00:15:32,529 --> 00:15:36,989 Speaker 2: that for yourself, it really makes it a little bit 247 00:15:37,029 --> 00:15:41,419 Speaker 2: easier to deal with the challenges and difficulties. And we 248 00:15:41,449 --> 00:15:44,819 Speaker 2: know that this is going to be an ongoing struggle 249 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,159 Speaker 2: for her and it will still be painful, but because 250 00:15:48,219 --> 00:15:51,059 Speaker 2: she's in touch with her feelings, she'll be able to 251 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:53,719 Speaker 2: express them and she'll be able to connect with the 252 00:15:53,759 --> 00:16:00,249 Speaker 2: people around her and not feel so isolated. Next week, 253 00:16:00,609 --> 00:16:04,389 Speaker 2: we're in session with sisters Sandra and Kim, who discover 254 00:16:04,489 --> 00:16:07,839 Speaker 2: a family secret that their parents held for 60 years. 255 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:11,959 Speaker 1: I internally just felt like there's something that's not right here. 256 00:16:12,299 --> 00:16:15,579 Speaker 1: We were asked our whole lives if we had the 257 00:16:15,619 --> 00:16:19,409 Speaker 1: same parents. If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to 258 00:16:19,469 --> 00:16:22,139 Speaker 1: subscribe for free so that you don't miss any episodes. 259 00:16:22,579 --> 00:16:25,359 Speaker 1: And please help support Dear Therapist by telling your friends 260 00:16:25,419 --> 00:16:28,479 Speaker 1: about it and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your 261 00:16:28,499 --> 00:16:30,519 Speaker 1: reviews really help people to find the show. 262 00:16:31,409 --> 00:16:33,509 Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, 263 00:16:33,989 --> 00:16:40,749 Speaker 2: email us at laurieandguy at iheartmedia.com. Our executive producer is 264 00:16:40,809 --> 00:16:45,329 Speaker 2: Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Josh Fisher. Additional 265 00:16:45,409 --> 00:16:49,979 Speaker 2: editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington, and Zachary Fisher. 266 00:16:50,479 --> 00:16:55,079 Speaker 2: Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily Gutierrez, and Silver Lifton. 267 00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:59,259 Speaker 2: And special thanks to our podcast fairy godmother, Katie Couric. 268 00:16:59,699 --> 00:17:01,789 Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you at our next session. 269 00:17:02,549 --> 00:17:05,189 Speaker 2: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.