Speaker 1: M golf. Is that they anything in golf that doesn't
Speaker 1: change the anything that changes the best in playing. Is
Speaker 1: this man a one time winner on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: The point Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need
Speaker 1: a fourth. So I think we can all agree that
Speaker 1: Echo golf shoes changed the game. When Fred Couples rolled
Speaker 1: up wearing them without socks, it spoke to their comfort
Speaker 1: and just sort of that that effortless cool. But you
Speaker 1: have an Arnold Palmer story I want to hear right.
Speaker 1: Let let's see. Have I ever told you about my
Speaker 1: last visit with Arnold? I saw Arnold. I would like
Speaker 1: to thank no reporters or Arnold more than I did
Speaker 1: when he was in his eighties. My last visit with
Speaker 1: him was in Latrobe, and I drove there wearing these
Speaker 1: pathetic birken stocks when I got always, I'll just wear
Speaker 1: my shoes when I get there. But when I got there,
Speaker 1: all I had was my Echo golf shoes. And Arnold's
Speaker 1: really formal, and I'm going into his office with my
Speaker 1: cleaned up Echo golf shoes and armost like checking me out,
Speaker 1: and he's nodding, and I said, what you're looking at
Speaker 1: my socks and these arms like, no, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: your shoes. And then Arnold talked about all the different
Speaker 1: shoes he wore, and no question, Arnold Doug the Echo shoe.
Speaker 1: I love the Echo Show. I know you do too. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a great shoe sales resistant. If it's good enough
Speaker 1: for Arnold Palmerton Fred Couples, it's good enough for the
Speaker 1: rest of you. So go to Echo dot com and
Speaker 1: um you can find one that fits that you like
Speaker 1: that people will stare at, like Arnie. So back to
Speaker 1: Need a Fourth. Hello, this is Alan Schipknuck back for
Speaker 1: another Need a Fourth podcast, as always, joined by Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger in Philadelphia. This time Jeff Ogilvie is in the
Speaker 1: fire Pit Offices in Oceanside, California. Boys, it's it's nice
Speaker 1: to get the gang back together here. It's been a
Speaker 1: little while. It was a good time. Yeah, it's good
Speaker 1: to be here. I love it. Um, so we have
Speaker 1: we have a really fun guest tonight. UM. I can
Speaker 1: tell you that she is from the great state of California.
Speaker 1: At this exact moment, she's about three miles away from me.
Speaker 1: But um, that's unusual circumstances. She's here in Pebble Beach
Speaker 1: playing a tournament. Um she's three and oh all time
Speaker 1: in Solheim Cup singles. She shot sixty one in her
Speaker 1: first ever LPGA event way back when, like turn of
Speaker 1: the century, Alan to do, uh to do? Write a
Speaker 1: book with her at one point in your life. Okay,
Speaker 1: you got it. The one and only Christina Kim is
Speaker 1: our guest on Needa fourth Christina to show yourself she is.
Speaker 1: That was dramatic. I love that. A pizza paper covering
Speaker 1: the camera. Yes, yeah, for those who are not watching,
Speaker 1: Christina just that was the best for avail. We've had
Speaker 1: si file not even clothes, I mean easily the best.
Speaker 1: Um so Christina. So yes, we do have a long history,
Speaker 1: which Michael alluded to. And you've podcasted here on on
Speaker 1: the fire Pit Network in the past. But tell tell
Speaker 1: our listeners and our co hosts, like you've been out
Speaker 1: here for heck of a long time, Like where are
Speaker 1: you in your career? How hot is the fire burning? Like,
Speaker 1: let's get caught up a little bit. Well, I have,
Speaker 1: as of the end of this season, concluded my twentieth
Speaker 1: year on the LPGA Tour, and I had I had
Speaker 1: the yips this year. And I figured this out early November.
Speaker 1: M Like you always hear, oh so and so had
Speaker 1: the yips and this that, and it's like you can
Speaker 1: see it this, this whatever whatever. So you have this
Speaker 1: like vision in your brain as to what the yips are,
Speaker 1: and it is nothing. It's nothing like what your brain
Speaker 1: can conjure up. Because honest to god, I've probably hit
Speaker 1: the ball better than I have in about a decade.
Speaker 1: And I I wouldn't have been able to stroke a
Speaker 1: dead horse if I was sitting on top of it.
Speaker 1: How bad did it get? Um uh, my birdies that
Speaker 1: I would make the random twenty footer, but if I
Speaker 1: was inside of eighteen ft, I could not. I couldn't
Speaker 1: hit my line, I couldn't get the speed right. I
Speaker 1: was um like flinching outside of like my entire aura.
Speaker 1: And it was, uh, it was. It was crazy. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't every single put, but it was just enough
Speaker 1: to sit there and just cause you to just have no,
Speaker 1: no fucking clue what was going on. So, so, Jeff,
Speaker 1: at this point, you and I can just leave the
Speaker 1: room with the floors. Michael's because he's intimately familiar with
Speaker 1: this subject. I'm sure he wants to um to go
Speaker 1: into and gory detailed. Michael, the floor is yours. Do
Speaker 1: you hold on really hard at the left hand, take
Speaker 1: it outside and try to shove it in there without
Speaker 1: any release whatsoever. No, my stroke does not look bad,
Speaker 1: but I just feel my soul flinching like two degrees
Speaker 1: with almost every stroke, and then I would be off
Speaker 1: balance like it. There was no there was no real
Speaker 1: discernible shove if anything, Like my pottern was always exiting
Speaker 1: too far left, and so it would be like a
Speaker 1: flip of the hands as opposed to a lack of
Speaker 1: a release. It was just, it was it was just.
Speaker 1: It was insanity. It was insanity. What's your level, Christie,
Speaker 1: your Christina, your level of comfortable actually using the word yip,
Speaker 1: because like I was shocked years ago when I heard
Speaker 1: Tom Watson say once a yipper, always a yipper, like
Speaker 1: he was in recovery. Here's Tom Watson, one of the
Speaker 1: great golfers of all time, one of the great pudders
Speaker 1: of all time, admitting that he was in recovery from
Speaker 1: being a yipper and that you were never in full recovery.
Speaker 1: It was like being a recovering alcoholic. But are you
Speaker 1: comfortable with using that word. Yip. I'm very comfortable one. Um.
Speaker 1: I I can relate to that on a a mental
Speaker 1: health level. UM. I always talked about how you know,
Speaker 1: years ago I almost committed suicide, and so my mental
Speaker 1: health is something that I have to be aware of
Speaker 1: all the time. And you know, on bad days, it's like, oh, hello,
Speaker 1: old friend, you can funk right off, but you're gonna
Speaker 1: hang for a little while. That's cool. Um. And I
Speaker 1: I mean for a period of time, because I've always been,
Speaker 1: you know, in the last eighteen years of my career,
Speaker 1: been known to be one of the fastest golfers on
Speaker 1: the LPGA tour. I was pulling like whatever you would
Speaker 1: call it, like a Sergio or Kevin Nah with the
Speaker 1: grip thingy for like eight months to the point where
Speaker 1: I was I was like openly weeping as I was
Speaker 1: playing golf because you just had this thing in my
Speaker 1: brain that just would not go. And so I was
Speaker 1: I was on the putting green at my golf course
Speaker 1: in Orlando, over at Orange Free Golf Club, and I
Speaker 1: was just I'm grinding, and I'm sitting here trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what on earth is happening, and it just
Speaker 1: dawned on me. I was like, then I said it
Speaker 1: to myself, I said, you had the yips. And so
Speaker 1: for me, it's it's similar to, you know, like what
Speaker 1: they say with in terms of like addictions. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, recognizing that there's a problem. And I was
Speaker 1: just like, ohh that putt was a yip. I had
Speaker 1: the yip. So just being able to face the fact
Speaker 1: of what was going on provided me so much freedom
Speaker 1: and so much of an ability to just be like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: this is what you're doing. And I mean I was
Speaker 1: having I was getting putting lessons, and it was all
Speaker 1: the same thing of like you're peaking, your putter's exiting left,
Speaker 1: you're flipping your hands, you do like the kind of
Speaker 1: ship that I tell my Proram partners every Wednesday prior
Speaker 1: to a tournament round. I was cumulatively, cumulatively doing that
Speaker 1: myself as a touring professional. And so when I realized
Speaker 1: I had the yips, I was like, son of a bitch, Okay,
Speaker 1: so now I know what I've been doing. So now
Speaker 1: I know what to do to make sure that that
Speaker 1: stays a part of my past. I mean, you make
Speaker 1: it sound like a physical issue. Christina but the yips
Speaker 1: is metaphysical. I mean it's in your it's in your soul.
Speaker 1: It's it's I mean like Michael's. You may not know
Speaker 1: it's about Michael. I play a lot of golf with
Speaker 1: He's right handed, as a very nice right handed golf
Speaker 1: swing and a very nice right handed putting stroke, but
Speaker 1: he carries the kind of putter that he can if
Speaker 1: he feels it coming on, he can just go lefty.
Speaker 1: And so when I've played a lot with Michael, but
Speaker 1: not everyone has, so we'll be out in the golf
Speaker 1: course and all of a sudden they're like, wait, has
Speaker 1: he been putting left hand this whole time? Like no, no,
Speaker 1: just just on that three footer. And so it's you know,
Speaker 1: like Michael, what does it feel like for you when
Speaker 1: when you're struggling, like can you put a name on it? Um?
Speaker 1: I feel like I know I've got no chance of
Speaker 1: making it righty and that lefty, like I'll read it bad,
Speaker 1: but but I won't stroke it bad. So so the
Speaker 1: mis feels less bad. Is really not fair to Jeff
Speaker 1: to be having this conversation front and you gotta face
Speaker 1: this ship because then now you know how to combat it.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Jeff, you're you're you're putting stroke
Speaker 1: has always been smooth and simple and you've never struggled.
Speaker 1: I need this, so imagine. Um, I've yipped a few parts,
Speaker 1: I think, um, but it's never caught on for very long.
Speaker 1: I think it's it starts out technical. I think it
Speaker 1: ends up mental. But surely it starts out technical. I mean,
Speaker 1: parting is so simple, like it doesn't take much to
Speaker 1: get your ball position out by an inch or something,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden that's just not taken off
Speaker 1: where you're looking, and you miss a couple that you
Speaker 1: thought you were going to make, and then before you
Speaker 1: know what, you're telling yourself you're a ship. But under
Speaker 1: your breath, you know, like, I don't know, um. Chipping,
Speaker 1: I think I've seen how is you chipping? Christina far
Speaker 1: It was it was yipping. It wasn't again, it was
Speaker 1: just bad enough for it to not be like I
Speaker 1: feel like I could make every chip, but it was
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing where it's like you felt,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was yipping chips. Yeah, I've seen
Speaker 1: some guys have a lot of trouble chipping. Chipping is
Speaker 1: actually more damaging I think sometimes and you can get
Speaker 1: away with it because you can just part right. But
Speaker 1: if you get on short grass and you have to
Speaker 1: chip and you've got the yips. No, it was a
Speaker 1: stone in the seed tiger with the chip yips. And
Speaker 1: I don't care what anybody says, he I don't. I
Speaker 1: mean he was flinching and he was he looked awful,
Speaker 1: and as Jeffe said, it was on the tight lies,
Speaker 1: you know, fluffy lies. He was fine, but on tight
Speaker 1: lies you could make Have you two ever played in
Speaker 1: a tournament together. I've seen him, We've been in the
Speaker 1: same tournament at the Victorian. I've been um to the
Speaker 1: minutes and women's run in conjunction at the same time. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good event. Yeah, alternating tea times male female
Speaker 1: male female. That was the first time I ever actually
Speaker 1: laid eyes on him. It was It was pretty special
Speaker 1: night top ten that year. Why don't they do that
Speaker 1: as a mixed team event? Would't that be so fun
Speaker 1: to actually have the men the moon playing alongside each other,
Speaker 1: not not sort of concurrently. I think it's coming. I
Speaker 1: mean Australia has got three or four sort of men
Speaker 1: and women playing the same events. Sort of thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's coming. There's certainly a desire for I think, um,
Speaker 1: maybe my peers and Christina's piers need to open their
Speaker 1: minds up a little bit to it, and maybe the
Speaker 1: powers that be I don't know. I think there's a
Speaker 1: few and there's enough for shooes in golf at the
Speaker 1: moment to not start chasing stuff like that. But I
Speaker 1: think it would be a great tournament that J C.
Speaker 1: Penney wasn't that. I remember that J C. Penny when
Speaker 1: I first got on tour. That was the thing, right, yes, um,
Speaker 1: and that was what to apply an OPG player and
Speaker 1: his seniors tour champions to him. Maybe just the two,
Speaker 1: just the two. Um. I don't know why that would
Speaker 1: have been a great event. I imagine was it great?
Speaker 1: Was the greatest caring of all time? John Daily with
Speaker 1: Christie Christina? Can you get as part of me, Christina?
Speaker 1: Because when you first came up to me, you were
Speaker 1: Christie and I know Christina has really would to go. Now, Christina,
Speaker 1: do you remember who John Daily played with Laura Davies.
Speaker 1: I was, I was not. I wasn't really, I wasn't
Speaker 1: on tour yet when when the J C. Penny was
Speaker 1: still taking place, I would guess Laura Davies. Laura Davis, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that those two together were fantastic. Um, that's an awesome
Speaker 1: pay So before we leave the topic of the yips,
Speaker 1: because it is it is so fascinating to me. By
Speaker 1: the way, real quick, we're putting explicit on this podcast
Speaker 1: episode right now. Sure the children. Um, Jeff, I'm curious, like,
Speaker 1: what's the worst case you've ever seen on the PGA
Speaker 1: tour of a guy who had the yips on the
Speaker 1: greens on the greens Yeah, Ernie, Well, I think the
Speaker 1: worst single part I've ever seen, I didn't see it
Speaker 1: live was Lucas is part for sixty at Greensboro. Um,
Speaker 1: it's on YouTube Lucas Glover that he was going through
Speaker 1: a rough time. Lucas had it tough for a while, Um,
Speaker 1: but fought through it and got through it. Um, Ernie,
Speaker 1: Ernie's got pretty bad that year in Augusta was pretty
Speaker 1: comedy show when he just couldn't get the ball in
Speaker 1: the heart. I mean, that's a scary grain different putting well. Um,
Speaker 1: and you can see it's I've part of I've had
Speaker 1: four parts they're putting well, like hitting three good parts
Speaker 1: and they all missed you know, so it can happen. Um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, Lucas is part of Greenspro. I think he
Speaker 1: would have been it too. He nearly missed the blight
Speaker 1: like on at it was tough, but he found it back.
Speaker 1: I mean the guys, I mean he's still out there
Speaker 1: applying well. I just think if I think about Ernie,
Speaker 1: like you, you go into Augusta so full of hope
Speaker 1: and and you spend all week long practicing and making
Speaker 1: the scene. In the first hole of the first round,
Speaker 1: you out in six ft and it's like you have
Speaker 1: thirty five bar holes to play. It must have just
Speaker 1: been an absolute death march, like for both of you guys.
Speaker 1: And when when you get off to a bad start,
Speaker 1: and like, how how do you soldier through that? Well,
Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty get to the CME final round. Um,
Speaker 1: I end up having to incur a two stroke penalty
Speaker 1: because I got to the tea box. I there was
Speaker 1: a cart, right, there were no carts around. We were
Speaker 1: the first group out whatever. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I should have gotten there sooner. But regardless, get to
Speaker 1: the tea, I jump out of the tea I like
Speaker 1: flying squirrel it onto the tea box and like, did
Speaker 1: I make it in time? And the rules official Mitch
Speaker 1: Moon was like I'm really sorry you didn't And I
Speaker 1: was like, can I still play? And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: go for it. So I made I forget. I think
Speaker 1: I made triple and then I had seven birdies after that,
Speaker 1: Like ship happens? What do you? What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: Like it's like the future has never written, um we have,
Speaker 1: you know, on the LPGA, we call it the kiss
Speaker 1: of death, where if you birdie the first hole and
Speaker 1: you don't back it up either with a birdie in
Speaker 1: the in one of the next few holes, or if
Speaker 1: you miss in seemingly easy par putt in the next
Speaker 1: couple of holes, you're fucked. Whereas if you make bogey
Speaker 1: on the first hole, it's like you you know it,
Speaker 1: you can just you take the valve off. You're just like,
Speaker 1: funk it, all right, let's just go. Let's just go,
Speaker 1: you know, as as deep as we can and see
Speaker 1: what happens. That's fascinating. I love to know what the
Speaker 1: browser is. Mentally fragiles, I would concur with that actually,
Speaker 1: like it's not ideal, but some of your best rounds
Speaker 1: of boggies on the first very often, and birdies on
Speaker 1: the first can turn out poorly. Um it's funny. It
Speaker 1: happens a lot. Yeah, yeah, sometimes, yeah, it happens a lot.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Expectations really powerful, I think, and I think
Speaker 1: when you get rid of your expectations, you play play,
Speaker 1: you play like yourself. You know, expectations there's baggage you
Speaker 1: don't need. And so when you birdie the first and
Speaker 1: you're feeling really good, especially the first time of a major,
Speaker 1: because people have been preparing for the Masters for nine
Speaker 1: months mentally, you know when I used to be hitting
Speaker 1: balls in January thinking about it. Um yeah. And if
Speaker 1: you got boggy double the first very first Masters I
Speaker 1: ever played, I hit it over the back on the
Speaker 1: first and someone said that all you look here here
Speaker 1: about the first The whole first week is don't hit
Speaker 1: it over the back of the first, don't hit over
Speaker 1: the back of the first. Second shot the Masters, I
Speaker 1: hit it over the back of the first. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: make double. And maybe I made boggy and bertie the second.
Speaker 1: I was on my way. You know, it's almost a
Speaker 1: good thing. I love that. Um so, Christina, I mean
Speaker 1: you say, twenty years on the LPG Tour, that's an
Speaker 1: incredible accomplishment in any circumstances. And I mean, this is
Speaker 1: gonna end up in a compliment, but it's gonna start
Speaker 1: like not not gonna sound like it. You haven't won
Speaker 1: that many tournaments. And when you win tournaments, you get
Speaker 1: the multi year exemptions and it makes it easier to
Speaker 1: stay out there for twenty years. So to be to
Speaker 1: get two decades straight on only a handful of winds
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. It speaks to your consistency, your tenacity, your grit.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you pat yourself on the
Speaker 1: back like, man, I've brawled it out year after year,
Speaker 1: like it's impressive. I don't really think of it that way.
Speaker 1: Um My thing is just obviously you go out trying
Speaker 1: to win every event. Uh, this year it was trying
Speaker 1: to make cuts, um, which I was only successful a
Speaker 1: handful of times even this year alone. But you know,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, it's it's it's I'm generally
Speaker 1: very very fortunate that I can pretty much stay in
Speaker 1: the moment so well that and I like to say
Speaker 1: that I have a short memory that Um yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean funk. These twenty years have flown by so quickly.
Speaker 1: That's that's part of it. Like it's it's it's mind
Speaker 1: boggling to me, the thing that has been what like
Speaker 1: nine years or some ship since my last win or
Speaker 1: whenever it was. I mean, I don't it's it's remarkable.
Speaker 1: I don't even think about it in that same way.
Speaker 1: So for me, you know, my first win was, yeah,
Speaker 1: nineteen years ago, doesn't seem like it was that long ago.
Speaker 1: And my last miscut was a couple of months ago
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that almost seems like it's farther back
Speaker 1: in time to me. Um So I just, you know,
Speaker 1: I just try and stay in the moment and just
Speaker 1: enjoy it, and once that enjoyment goes away, then it's
Speaker 1: time to to hang the boots up. But you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I you get those moments where like for me,
Speaker 1: like I had the yips, Like just being able to
Speaker 1: say that, I started crying because I was like, finally
Speaker 1: I know what the hell was going on. And I
Speaker 1: got so excited to be able to say I had
Speaker 1: the yips, And now I can start a streak of
Speaker 1: awesome strokes and hopefully some made putts afterwards. That, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's hard to kind of put
Speaker 1: into words. But at my last turn of I actually
Speaker 1: had a lady come up to me. She was following
Speaker 1: me around and she she didn't shut up all day
Speaker 1: and she actually, excuse me, she only talked when I
Speaker 1: was eating for the entire two rounds, which you know,
Speaker 1: bless her heart. It's it's it's you know, you deal
Speaker 1: with that as it is anyway on tour. And she
Speaker 1: came up to me after now She's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like I've been a fan of yours for so long,
Speaker 1: this that whatever, whatever. I get that a lot, and
Speaker 1: I think that's that's that's that's really really nice. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was like, I love you, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's because you say that because you don't know me, honey,
Speaker 1: you know. And she was like, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: so crazy to think, you know that, you know, I
Speaker 1: finally get to meet you after all these years. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I know you meant that in the
Speaker 1: nicest way possible. I'm not in a I'm in a
Speaker 1: very fragile mind space as it is right now, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my best to not be insulted
Speaker 1: by that, but I'm I'm pretty highly offended at this point.
Speaker 1: I'm offended by everything that you do. Lady. Now I'm
Speaker 1: very nervous to ask any question. Allen stop, I'm in
Speaker 1: a much better head space. Come on, I'm over the yips.
Speaker 1: I ask you this because, yeah, I read this in
Speaker 1: the paper today. I got the partner says to the partner,
Speaker 1: why are you always roller skating? And the answer was
Speaker 1: because you never see anybody roller skating who's in a
Speaker 1: bad mood. And it made me think about golf, like
Speaker 1: I'm generally I'll have moments of frustration, as we all do,
Speaker 1: but generally very happy to be on a golf course. So, Christina,
Speaker 1: as you dealt with the mental health issues, what role
Speaker 1: did golf and being on golf courses play in improving
Speaker 1: your mental health? Um? So, when I was at my
Speaker 1: the period of time where I was my worst with
Speaker 1: my mental health, it was simultaneously golf was simultaneously a
Speaker 1: refuge as well as the source of my pain. Um
Speaker 1: I was still you know, I was. I was in
Speaker 1: my mid or early twenties. I was still associating my
Speaker 1: self worth with my score. I you know, I've always
Speaker 1: had a very good sense of self. But I've you know,
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a part of you that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're younger, at least you think you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was always a caretaker. I was always
Speaker 1: the one that would like I could read someone's body
Speaker 1: language and I'd be like, hey, are you okay? What's
Speaker 1: going on? Like, let's talk about it. And so I
Speaker 1: I never knew that there were other people that could
Speaker 1: do that for me, and no one, truth be told,
Speaker 1: no one ever did that for me except for my
Speaker 1: boyfriend Duncan. Um. Everyone always came to me with their
Speaker 1: problems and I would help with the problem solving. I
Speaker 1: would be an ear to listen to. But no one
Speaker 1: ever asked me how I was doing. And so I
Speaker 1: was never able to express that I wasn't doing well. Um.
Speaker 1: And so because of that perception that people had of me,
Speaker 1: I I shut down doubly so, and that as a result,
Speaker 1: just ended up festering inside of me and having that
Speaker 1: persona of Christina's always bubbly, Christina's always having fun, this, that, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like, Yeah, I mean I'm still having fun, but
Speaker 1: I'm fucking dying inside and no one is asking me,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how to ask for help because
Speaker 1: I'm always the one giving it, so um it. At
Speaker 1: times it was both my refuge as well as a
Speaker 1: sourbs of my pain. Nowadays, I mean like I'm here
Speaker 1: at the Pebble Beach Invitational right now. I I got
Speaker 1: a call Wednesday at eleven fifty seven in the morning
Speaker 1: back in Florida saying, hey, we need you. Someone had
Speaker 1: to pull out. There's an eight thirty three tea time
Speaker 1: here in California. I was an hour and a half
Speaker 1: away from my house. And thankfully, just because I've been
Speaker 1: on tour for so long, I was I'm always in
Speaker 1: like a perpetual state of like semi packed um. I
Speaker 1: always say it's like it's like my like my Preppers
Speaker 1: version of a bug bag, um, a bug out bag.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, let me see if
Speaker 1: I can get a flight that one leaves late enough
Speaker 1: that I can catch it, but two arrives early enough
Speaker 1: that I can make my eight thirty three tea time.
Speaker 1: And lo and behold, I was able to find a
Speaker 1: flight that took off at five thirty in the afternoon
Speaker 1: landed just before eleven PM. The bags were delayed by
Speaker 1: over an hour in SFO, and then how to go
Speaker 1: from SFO and make my way down to Monterey. Um,
Speaker 1: long story short, I got into the room like tot
Speaker 1: up at eight thirty, like I I and I'm having
Speaker 1: the time of my life, Like how can you not
Speaker 1: when you're here in in in at Pebble Beach and
Speaker 1: you know, playing I'm I'm playing um Spyglass tomorrow. Like
Speaker 1: it's just like because I'm in a place where I
Speaker 1: can cope with myself and I can understand things better,
Speaker 1: and I have a grasp of, you know, really who
Speaker 1: I am to this point in my life, Like it's
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, Like and golf has been much more of
Speaker 1: a savior, even in those times where I'm like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: I yipped it again from eight feet and that is
Speaker 1: my six yip today from inside of ten ft. It's like,
Speaker 1: god damn it, I'm hitting inside of ten feet, like
Speaker 1: I like, I can't even throw anything inside of ten
Speaker 1: ft like regards if I've already inside of ten feet
Speaker 1: from the object. So it's one of those things where
Speaker 1: it's just an unbelievable, like incredible battle of of you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say so analogous to life, but
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, I'm going to overdramatize it, but
Speaker 1: it's like the good versus evil and the yend and
Speaker 1: the yang in the dark and the light and and
Speaker 1: and and golf is just such a beautiful, um example
Speaker 1: of that. If you you know, if, if, if you're
Speaker 1: going through it, which your girl was, Jeff, I'm wondering
Speaker 1: how much you relate to that because listeners to this podcast,
Speaker 1: no you're I'm sure they think of you as an easygoing,
Speaker 1: low key, mellow dude. But on the golf course, you
Speaker 1: could run hot and you were almost the perfectionists in
Speaker 1: some ways. I mean, did you burn yourself out a
Speaker 1: little bit just by being so hard on yourself? Ah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. Um, it's hard not too though, Like Christina says,
Speaker 1: I mean early in your career, it takes a long
Speaker 1: time to not well. It's very rare the golfer who
Speaker 1: doesn't attached their self worth or their happiness level to
Speaker 1: their scores. You know, like when you're playing well, you're
Speaker 1: all happy and you're up and about, and you played
Speaker 1: bad for a few weeks, all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: think you're a bad person, you know. Um, it's a
Speaker 1: pretty frustrating job. Um. But as Christina said, I mean
Speaker 1: it's the best teacher as well. I mean it's the
Speaker 1: best psychologist. I mean, golf as a sport is the
Speaker 1: best psychologist I've ever talked to, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: because the whole game is a bad against yourself. Really,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, we have other opponents out there that
Speaker 1: you guys like to write about, but it's really a
Speaker 1: battle against yourself. Um. And everyone's always in sort of
Speaker 1: a different phase of their battle, you know. And you
Speaker 1: it's always you're going around in circles. At one point
Speaker 1: you get it, you're working out, and then you get
Speaker 1: further away from it, and then you find it again,
Speaker 1: and then you get further away from it, and you
Speaker 1: find again. That's the cycle. And I guess the more
Speaker 1: you can go through that with a little bit of awareness, um, gradually,
Speaker 1: mentally I just got less affected. Later on. I definitely
Speaker 1: got burned out because I tried. I didn't try too hard.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can try too hard. I think
Speaker 1: I took it too hard, took it too seriously, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I think at some point you sort of come to
Speaker 1: the point where I would try to take since try
Speaker 1: to play sincere golf not serious golf, you know, so
Speaker 1: all in, but it doesn't really matter, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: and when you're playing your best, it's like that it's
Speaker 1: a little bit cavalier and it's very free and it's
Speaker 1: um a lot of fun um and better for your
Speaker 1: mental health because if you're taking it too seriously, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got some pretty miserable nights and hotel
Speaker 1: rooms and you do that two or three weeks in
Speaker 1: a row. Um, you don't let your job very much.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a great teacher, though golf if you
Speaker 1: let it, if you let it be a teacher, it's
Speaker 1: a great teacher. Well, and I'm sure winning the US
Speaker 1: Open at a pretty young age complicated that because I'd
Speaker 1: only raise the the internal bar, right like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: the expectations go nuts, and then everyone asks no one
Speaker 1: ever used to ask, like if there's one bad thing
Speaker 1: about winning a big tournament like that, or winning big tournaments,
Speaker 1: is that you can't play golf tournaments anonymously anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: And I kind of miss playing golf tournaments anonymously. I
Speaker 1: mean I kind of get to do it now because
Speaker 1: no one really notices me anymore. But um, just turning up,
Speaker 1: play your golf tournament, go through your stuff, play, put
Speaker 1: your scores in and go. Like once you win a
Speaker 1: big tournament, everyone's asking you how you're playing all the time,
Speaker 1: and why don't you're playing any good? I thought you
Speaker 1: were a bit better than that. I thought I had
Speaker 1: my money on you this week, Jeff, and all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. It just wears you out a little
Speaker 1: bit if you let it. And I think it happens
Speaker 1: to everybody. I mean, how many times you see guys
Speaker 1: win a major or golf has when a major and
Speaker 1: they have a great little six months because they're informed,
Speaker 1: but then for a couple of years they drop off
Speaker 1: because it's just it's different. I don't know, it's hard.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that I handled it okay, but um,
Speaker 1: it's tough. It is a tough sort of period. Like
Speaker 1: expectation is a big enemy, I think, and it's hard
Speaker 1: to get past that because the better you play, the
Speaker 1: high year expectations are. But then you go buggy. The
Speaker 1: first as we were talking about, before, all of a
Speaker 1: sudden your head goes head comes off because you thought
Speaker 1: you were going to win by six, you know, meanwhereas
Speaker 1: if you win and win no expectations, you buggy the first,
Speaker 1: you don't really care um and ultimately the buggy on
Speaker 1: the first doesn't make any difference. I mean, how many
Speaker 1: people win tournaments with the buggy on the first? I
Speaker 1: mean probably every second week. So anyway, Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: fascinating journey mentally professional golfer. I think you'd get interesting
Speaker 1: answers from everyone who's been doing it for a long time.
Speaker 1: As you surely know. You know. Links Al is a
Speaker 1: clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for
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Speaker 1: You leaning forward in your chair, you like I sent
Speaker 1: an eagerness here, don't jump in. Come on, um, Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know that Jeff is uh very much
Speaker 1: a student of golf course architecture. I've never gotten a
Speaker 1: chance to hear you on those same subjects. What are
Speaker 1: some of your favorite courses in the world. Have you
Speaker 1: had a chance to do any golf course design? Work
Speaker 1: yourself well to answer your your ask question, No, but
Speaker 1: I I it's hard to see to speak in front
Speaker 1: of this group because I I would say, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: definitely a novice when it does come to golf course architecture,
Speaker 1: but I do love and appreciate it. Um. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I've I've come to realize that some of my best
Speaker 1: golf gets played on seth Rainer style or excuse me,
Speaker 1: seth Rainer design golf courses. Uh. There's just something about
Speaker 1: the way that the courses tend to flow. It fits
Speaker 1: my mind's I. Um, but I I am a fan
Speaker 1: of architecture. I just I'm still very much a novice
Speaker 1: and and you know, golf course design would be something
Speaker 1: that I would love to get into. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to you know, the understanding of you know, soil
Speaker 1: composition and then you know in relation to that, like
Speaker 1: you know and then location, humidity levels, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the way the seasons change, what type of grass types
Speaker 1: are are better suited for that. Like I would just
Speaker 1: want to sit there and be like I want a
Speaker 1: fescue golf course because fescu is the best grass on
Speaker 1: the planet and leave it at that. And you know,
Speaker 1: have have some you know, unbelievable um. You know, like
Speaker 1: I want to have her dance but it's all of
Speaker 1: that stuff. But I'm not, uh, I'm I'm I'm very
Speaker 1: humble in this group to be honest when it comes
Speaker 1: to that. Um, But I've played some unbelievable courses. I mean,
Speaker 1: Mountain Lake is is this unbelievable hidden gym just outside
Speaker 1: an hour outside of Orlando. It's a Seth Reiner design
Speaker 1: where it just it's just such a special special place. Um.
Speaker 1: Will shure I think has become a super fun golf course. UM.
Speaker 1: And and one of my favorite courses to go run
Speaker 1: up to whenever i'm up near the up in in
Speaker 1: in Michigan. Haven't played Crystal Down yet, but I love
Speaker 1: going and checking out the loop that that Tom Dope
Speaker 1: did over at Fort Students. And it's just you know,
Speaker 1: I I don't know, I'm very um. I feel like
Speaker 1: a five year old girl trying to sit with the
Speaker 1: adults at the adult table right now. When it comes
Speaker 1: to architecture, I think you and Jeff actually are are
Speaker 1: very similarly aligned. I mean I know Christina a little
Speaker 1: better than the other two folk on this chat, and
Speaker 1: like Christina is a very old school and how she
Speaker 1: thinks about the game, she's a purist. Um, there's there's
Speaker 1: you know, despite the colorful wardrobe. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: you're you're living in like the nineteen fifties as far
Speaker 1: as how you think about the game, like and Jeff
Speaker 1: of course is old school to the bone, so set
Speaker 1: inside the architecture. But um, you know, whether it's it's
Speaker 1: yardage books or it's lasers, or it's piece of play
Speaker 1: or whatever. Like, I think you guys actually see it
Speaker 1: exactly the same, even if you don't know that it's
Speaker 1: a very highly paid compliment, So thank you, Allen. No,
Speaker 1: but it's true. Christina. Do you remember, um, have you
Speaker 1: played Mary in more than once? I have, No. I
Speaker 1: have only played Mary in the one time when Alan
Speaker 1: and I were on our book tour. I was in
Speaker 1: that game. It was no, it was a girls group.
Speaker 1: It was Alan sho Allison Shoemaker, um that Alan had
Speaker 1: gotten me set up with, and she about two of
Speaker 1: her girl her her lady friends, and we were playing
Speaker 1: it in the months prior to Justin Rose winning at
Speaker 1: Marian and I was I think I was. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I should say this, but I believe I
Speaker 1: was the only person allowed to hit off of the
Speaker 1: grass for like the for the like three months prior
Speaker 1: to the U S Open being held there. That's what
Speaker 1: all those divots were doing. And my memory is, uh
Speaker 1: that that you played from the from the back tees
Speaker 1: and shot sixty nine is what was reported to me
Speaker 1: at the time. And uh, you know, just farries and
Speaker 1: greens and made a couple of pots. Fairies, Greens make
Speaker 1: a couple of pots. That's that's that's ultimately what golf
Speaker 1: comes down to. And and you know, Marian, it was
Speaker 1: so funny. It's very the the game has played very
Speaker 1: differently from with the men versus the women in many regards.
Speaker 1: Like I always joked because you know, like like going
Speaker 1: and playing the vic open Um was honestly one of
Speaker 1: my favorite experience is because you know you're you're going.
Speaker 1: I played practice rounds with like with Aaron Pike, with
Speaker 1: Brett Rumford and and Jordan Mulaney, so so three Australian
Speaker 1: guys and I was um playing and and um um.
Speaker 1: James Morrison walks up and he's like, hey, we're just
Speaker 1: gonna walk if we can watch you guys this that whatever.
Speaker 1: And I'm like sure, and I'm like, god, you guys
Speaker 1: hit the ball so far and he's like, you hit
Speaker 1: it so straight. And it's just so funny because it
Speaker 1: was sort of like game recognized as game. And I
Speaker 1: just kind of sit there and I'm like, I joke
Speaker 1: like we don't have enough clubhead speed to make the
Speaker 1: ball go right or left, you know. I I kind
Speaker 1: of joke in that sense. Um, And I always I always,
Speaker 1: you know, And I talked with some of my guy
Speaker 1: friends as well, you know that are various levels of
Speaker 1: professional golf, and I'm just like okay, We'll tell me like,
Speaker 1: it's twenty yards a narrow fairway. Most of the time
Speaker 1: people will say yes. I'm like, okay, well, in twenty yards,
Speaker 1: you've got how many feet are in a yard? This? Three?
Speaker 1: How many inches are in the foot this twelve? So
Speaker 1: in a twenty yard fairway you have sixty feet. In
Speaker 1: the sixty foot fairway, you have seven inches here. To
Speaker 1: take the I am out of a golf ball and
Speaker 1: divide that by those seven you can fit four hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty four point seven golf balls in a twenty
Speaker 1: yard fairway. So one golf ball is less than a
Speaker 1: quarter percent of a fairway. And the guys get so
Speaker 1: mad at me because I just have a different sense
Speaker 1: of perspective. And they were like, yeah, but if you
Speaker 1: hit it farther than you know, there's more potential for
Speaker 1: deviation this, that, whatever, whatever, even the wind can cause
Speaker 1: it to drift whatever. And I'm like, okay, then use
Speaker 1: your head and like, recognize the ball is gonna fly
Speaker 1: that far. So at this velocity of wind, the ball
Speaker 1: is going to travel this much more in one direction
Speaker 1: or the other. Like, don't give me that as an excuse, son,
Speaker 1: Like you you're at your level, you should know, you
Speaker 1: know what your angle of attack is, how far to
Speaker 1: the right you're swinging and be able to do the
Speaker 1: math that way. And then they get kind of they
Speaker 1: oftentimes get mad and walk away, But there are a
Speaker 1: couple that are just like I never thought of it
Speaker 1: that way. Fairways are less narrow now because it's all
Speaker 1: a matter of perspective. That's neat. Christina, do you remember
Speaker 1: when Anica played in the in the Colonial Tournament. I
Speaker 1: I am. I was not glued to my television because
Speaker 1: I was trapesing about in a beat up dodge van
Speaker 1: playing in what is now absent tour events with my
Speaker 1: dad on the bag, But I was I was aware
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, and and and I remember her walking.
Speaker 1: I just remember her like nearly falling down walking off
Speaker 1: that first tee box. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. But
Speaker 1: just what you said, I mean, she she picked it.
Speaker 1: She picked it apart. Uh you know, she played it like,
Speaker 1: you know, like Hogan would have played a US open course.
Speaker 1: She absolutely picked it apart, and she missed very few fairways,
Speaker 1: and she needed to not miss arrows because that roof
Speaker 1: is his piano and relative strength would have been would
Speaker 1: have been you know, stopping balls on Green's out of
Speaker 1: that Roff would have been much more challenging for her
Speaker 1: than C. B. J. Singh. But just what you said,
Speaker 1: she played such intelligent golf and it's just a pleasure
Speaker 1: to watch you know, you or Stacy Lewis or Honica
Speaker 1: or any of the great players today, Um pick apart
Speaker 1: golf courses with intelligence. I don't think it's any any
Speaker 1: coincidence that you said Seth reren or you know, of
Speaker 1: all the names you could say, you'd say Seth Rerener
Speaker 1: because he would appreciate the way that that that you
Speaker 1: play golf. Jeff, what does it mean when Christina could
Speaker 1: name any architecture she named Seth Reiner? Well, how did
Speaker 1: that hit your ears? Wow, she's picking a good one,
Speaker 1: didn't she? Um? Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: Ryans and he was prolific on the East guyst to
Speaker 1: the US when I mean fantastic. Um yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters. Um, I mean US snobs.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm a bit of a snob, but I
Speaker 1: mean I don't I mean talk. I've read all the
Speaker 1: books and all the names of all these people and stuff,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that really matters. If you enjoy
Speaker 1: playing golf, they you enjoyed playing golf there, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to talk about over a glass I read
Speaker 1: at dinner or something, you know again zivs Reiner or whatever,
Speaker 1: and people want to talk about. But um, there there's
Speaker 1: just sort of especially the old that golden age, there's
Speaker 1: just some something about courses that weren't nature that wasn't
Speaker 1: was less messed around with, you know, and they had
Speaker 1: to use whatever was there, and they were a bit
Speaker 1: more creative. I think probably um and the player and
Speaker 1: then the and the clubs that have recognized that and
Speaker 1: preserved what Ryner and Ross and McDonald, McKenzie and that
Speaker 1: that they're the smart ones that preserved what was there. Um,
Speaker 1: they're enduring, you know, they just never don't every new
Speaker 1: generation that comes along they appreciate it, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: it's timeless. So yeah, right is a good Right is
Speaker 1: a good pick. It's one of the best. Christina from
Speaker 1: time to time mentions playing golf with his dad And
Speaker 1: you just mentioned your dad cadding for you and as
Speaker 1: tour events a long time ago. What what was that
Speaker 1: relationship like? So I spent some time to his dad.
Speaker 1: He is such a character. I want to hear how
Speaker 1: you answer this, and I may I mean an are good? Okay? Well,
Speaker 1: during it was one of the most volatile relationships you
Speaker 1: could imagine in every way. In every way, because the
Speaker 1: highs were so high, the lows were so low. There
Speaker 1: were just the the shouting matches we would have, like
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of a round, and that's
Speaker 1: all we knew, you know. We're just like He's like
Speaker 1: it's a seven, and I'm like it's an eight. He's
Speaker 1: like it's a seven. And it's just like what is
Speaker 1: wrong with you? It's like, what's wrong with me? What's
Speaker 1: wrong with you? I come from you, so it's clearly
Speaker 1: your fault, you know, like all of that stuff like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we would have shouting matches like that, but
Speaker 1: we would always like we would ultimately always end up
Speaker 1: making up. And and it took me a very long time, um,
Speaker 1: to realize one part of the reason why there was
Speaker 1: so much volatility is because I was screaming into a
Speaker 1: mirror like I am my father in so many ways,
Speaker 1: and so coming to that realization now it's like, well,
Speaker 1: yeah I am um, you know, I can be very
Speaker 1: strong headed. I I can be UM, you know more UM,
Speaker 1: you know, stick to my guns and and and say
Speaker 1: what I say and believe what I believe with conviction.
Speaker 1: Although it's you know, maybe a little bit softer than
Speaker 1: than his general approach is UM, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: like my very first UM major championship was with my
Speaker 1: dad on my bag when I was seventeen years old
Speaker 1: playing at Pine Needles in the US Women's Open. I
Speaker 1: was a third low am that year. We had matching
Speaker 1: bike golf sandals that we would be going up and
Speaker 1: down the fairways in UM. My first professional tournament as
Speaker 1: a professional was with my dad on the bag. My
Speaker 1: first LPGA Tour start was with my dad on my bag,
Speaker 1: my very first win, he was there on my bag,
Speaker 1: my first Solheim Cup, my first Solheim Cup point, my
Speaker 1: dad was on the bag. And again because we're we're
Speaker 1: you know, I'm so fortunate that I can stay so
Speaker 1: focused on the moment and that a lot of times
Speaker 1: you you don't necessarily think about those things which are
Speaker 1: so in your in the event you're over this shot,
Speaker 1: you're you know, working on this, you're working on that,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's it's like there was a
Speaker 1: lot of screaming, as there always is with you know,
Speaker 1: with parents and things like that, and at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's just like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: love you, but I don't like you very much right now.
Speaker 1: So a lot of that, Whereas now it seems as
Speaker 1: the last ten years, I I feel like everything that
Speaker 1: I say to my dad is thank you. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: you know, because I have a lot to to make
Speaker 1: up for. Um. But it's it was one obviously I
Speaker 1: would never trade it for anything else. And just the
Speaker 1: realization of how special and how rare that was, um,
Speaker 1: you know, being able to look back on that is
Speaker 1: just it. It still gives me. Um. We chuckle about
Speaker 1: it a lot, and it does give me chills, and
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just something so special. But god damn
Speaker 1: if it was not hard at the time, but nothing
Speaker 1: worth having is. And that the sacrifices that you realizes,
Speaker 1: you know, once you're no longer a kid and you
Speaker 1: can actually look upon um, you know, your parents says
Speaker 1: as you know, beyond just parents, but just as human beings,
Speaker 1: and you're just like, I'm real sorry, Like you had
Speaker 1: to endure a lot as a parent. You know, and um,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just awesome. Well this will interest both
Speaker 1: both of you guys are interesting to know. So when
Speaker 1: when when Christina's dad sort of ordained she was going
Speaker 1: to take out golf as a girl for a solid month,
Speaker 1: she had to make three drivers swings in the backyard
Speaker 1: five hundred and they were It wasn't like hold the
Speaker 1: finish set, back up swing. It was back and through
Speaker 1: and back and through. So it was technically a thousand,
Speaker 1: you know in that regard without actually a golf ball,
Speaker 1: just swinging the club like oh there was a mat
Speaker 1: with the little yellow ball hanging on a rope on
Speaker 1: a hook. Ye, you didn't get to see it fly,
Speaker 1: which is about idea why I was doing it. I
Speaker 1: just did it because I was told to do it.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a good kid in that regard.
Speaker 1: I was just like all right, like I like, I'm
Speaker 1: still amazed at the determination. Like I don't think too
Speaker 1: many kids would, would, you know, except that it's just
Speaker 1: there's no gratification, right, you don't get to you get
Speaker 1: to see the ball take off down a fairway against
Speaker 1: the mountains whenever, just like swinging the club over and over,
Speaker 1: I can't even do that now, Like that amazes me.
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a gratification by way of spite.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that, Jeff, what was your entry into
Speaker 1: the game. I don't think I know this story, Like
Speaker 1: how did you fall in love with it? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Dad was always chipping in the back yard, I think, um,
Speaker 1: and I just followed him. I think like he got
Speaker 1: me a little cut down club and I went chipping out.
Speaker 1: He had those little whiffle remember the whiffle balls, like
Speaker 1: the ones of the house and the plastic ones used
Speaker 1: to be at it. We had like the I fry
Speaker 1: but kind of like an ife pitched roof whatever one.
Speaker 1: He used to be able to hit him under the
Speaker 1: roof and they would bounce back down and it was
Speaker 1: like it would return the ball like almost the original net.
Speaker 1: So I love doing that. And then just he got
Speaker 1: me a little halfset I think at some point, and
Speaker 1: he's just started taking me to the golf course. I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I just always wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: I mean we lived right next door to Rob Melbourne. Um,
Speaker 1: so you'd go on, you'd walk the dog as the
Speaker 1: family and I'd be looking for balls because they had
Speaker 1: like that, like the chain link fence all the way around.
Speaker 1: But every now and then you'd see a ball that
Speaker 1: might have been within arm width of the fence, you know,
Speaker 1: and you could find a ball. It was like gold. Um,
Speaker 1: and it was just always around like I just I
Speaker 1: don't ever remember not doing it. You know, Dad loved it.
Speaker 1: Mom got into it a bit later on. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just he was he was just a He
Speaker 1: didn't sit on the couch. If he wasn't a male
Speaker 1: in the lawn or doing something in the garden, he
Speaker 1: was chipping or hitting a tennis ball against the garage
Speaker 1: door or something. So I would just went out with
Speaker 1: him and that was it. You remember the first time
Speaker 1: you beat him. Um, it wasn't that big a deal.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Um, he wasn't that competitive. He was competitive,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't competitive with his golf. Um, he just
Speaker 1: enjoyed us playing. I think I think he probably. I
Speaker 1: don't think it was that. It wasn't that monumental occasion
Speaker 1: like more. I was more it was like benchmarks for myself,
Speaker 1: like when I broke a hundred, that I broke ninety,
Speaker 1: and then I broke eighty. Then it broke seventy and
Speaker 1: then your handicapped down to scratch and all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. Like I think those sort of benchmarks were
Speaker 1: cooler for him. I don't think we even talked about it.
Speaker 1: When I started hitting the past him, that was pretty
Speaker 1: fun because I remember all the way, going as far
Speaker 1: back as I can remember, it would be three shots
Speaker 1: of mine to get to his, and then i'd get
Speaker 1: to the two shots if i'd get my second shot
Speaker 1: past his, And then the next two months later, I'm
Speaker 1: getting my second shot like twenty past is, and then
Speaker 1: three months later it's like thirty past years, and then
Speaker 1: gradually you get your first shot up near his. Remember
Speaker 1: when I started hitting it past him, that was fun. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: good Tims, Christina. The players on tour, now, there there
Speaker 1: are some who are they're not half your age, but
Speaker 1: they're almost half your age, some that are less than
Speaker 1: half that are more than half my or less than
Speaker 1: half my age. Yeah that's really something, isn't it. Uh?
Speaker 1: Because you're not even forty, you're thirty eight, right? Uh so, uh,
Speaker 1: what how do they approach you? Are they are they
Speaker 1: willing to ask you questions? Are they more likely to watch?
Speaker 1: How are they different from what you were like as
Speaker 1: a very young player on tour with with your tour elders. Um, well,
Speaker 1: the kids are smarter in a lot of ways. I
Speaker 1: think they come better equipped. Um, but at in the
Speaker 1: same vein, I think that they and these aren't like
Speaker 1: digs or compliments or anything. These are just strictly observations
Speaker 1: because they're potentially able to be better equipped and they
Speaker 1: have access to a lot more things. Uh Um. I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a little bit more onset of knowing
Speaker 1: everything on the face of the earth at a slightly
Speaker 1: younger age with more conviction than when I was a kid. Um,
Speaker 1: But I mean I was. I was an annoying in
Speaker 1: certain ways, sheltered um, oblivious, ignorant, blissed out kids living
Speaker 1: her dream and I I you know, I I remember
Speaker 1: my my first win. I was walking up the seventy
Speaker 1: second hole Carrie Webb, who had been watching, you know
Speaker 1: for for a long time. You know, at that point, um,
Speaker 1: there was one shot behind me and we've got this
Speaker 1: par four, a long part four with water down the
Speaker 1: entire left hand side and where Angela Stanford had her
Speaker 1: ball plug underneath the lip and almost disappear, uh green side.
Speaker 1: So we had to sit there and wait like an
Speaker 1: additional like twelve minutes while I figured out what the
Speaker 1: hell was going on. I'm just sitting there, like just
Speaker 1: just trying to have a chin wag, and Webby like
Speaker 1: looks at me and she's like, hey, like, don't take
Speaker 1: this the wrong way, but like, you know, you've got
Speaker 1: one shot lead, right, And I'm like and she's like,
Speaker 1: and you know that I'm trying to beat you, right.
Speaker 1: I was like, She's like uh, and she just kind
Speaker 1: of walked away, and I was like, I hope you Bertie,
Speaker 1: because I want to make Bertie too, you know. Like
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just like it was just it
Speaker 1: was so much I feel like it was much more
Speaker 1: fun and not like work in a bad way. But
Speaker 1: there's just something about you know, like growing up in
Speaker 1: the nineties and just having that that that sense of
Speaker 1: freedom and and ignorance and that lack of technology, I
Speaker 1: think was something that was just so beautiful. You just
Speaker 1: you'd go to the range and then you would find
Speaker 1: you know, you get a bucket of balls, or I'd like,
Speaker 1: you know, i'd help out a little bit at the
Speaker 1: golf course and they'd give me some privileges to do
Speaker 1: some extra things or whatever, and and you get out there,
Speaker 1: you get balls and you just whack them. Like now
Speaker 1: I I I go to a tour event. If they
Speaker 1: were like pro vs that are scuffed, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm uping these guys. I'm not going to hit those
Speaker 1: with my driver, you know. Like it it's as as
Speaker 1: a kid, and I'm sure they were just like spherical
Speaker 1: and white, yellow, orange painted. They'd say practice, they'd say dunlap,
Speaker 1: they'd say strata like it didn't those things didn't matter.
Speaker 1: So so it's it is. It is definitely different. But
Speaker 1: there are some there are some some of the kids
Speaker 1: that have no problem asking questions and actually have a
Speaker 1: young girl, well she's twenty six, I should say she's Um,
Speaker 1: she's actually competing at second stage right now, and and
Speaker 1: um the other golf course, I'm over at a Golden Ocalla.
Speaker 1: She's she's been working there and is is you know,
Speaker 1: got some backing from some of the members and and
Speaker 1: is making her way. And in the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: just you know, the director of golf was like, um, hey,
Speaker 1: you know you want do you mind going out and
Speaker 1: playing and let me letting me know, like what you
Speaker 1: think and I was like, yeah, sure, like I don't
Speaker 1: I like playing golf with people. So went out and
Speaker 1: this girl she's got like I think she's got like
Speaker 1: a hundred and eleven an hour club head speed but
Speaker 1: flawed like fluid fluid you wouldn't know where the speed
Speaker 1: comes from. And she was just like, hey, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for playing. It was so much fun to set
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, dude, like nowhere, like here's
Speaker 1: my number, like if you ever have any questions about stuff,
Speaker 1: like just ask me. And then she's she's got no
Speaker 1: fear asking questions, which I love because there's so many
Speaker 1: kids that are just like, you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to bother you, or you know, I'll be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know if you want to bounce some ideas off
Speaker 1: of me, like I got like twenty minutes like let's go,
Speaker 1: and they're just like are you sure? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: can you at least pay me the service of respecting
Speaker 1: the fact that if I say something to you, I
Speaker 1: genuinely mean it, Like if I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: to you, I wouldn't have talked to you already, Like
Speaker 1: I'm happy to offer this, like I'm I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: letting you know, like don't with me, Like what you
Speaker 1: see is what you get. If I say I've got
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, boom, let's see what we can do in
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and then we'll probably end up going over.
Speaker 1: But that's okay, too um. But she's you know, she's
Speaker 1: she's just she's just my little rocks and I'm just
Speaker 1: like super super excited to see how her career kind
Speaker 1: of goes from here on now. And you know, just
Speaker 1: it's nice to see kids that ask questions. And then
Speaker 1: like last week we worked on like t position based
Speaker 1: off of wind and how the wind can change to
Speaker 1: you know, it could be two hours difference between where
Speaker 1: you're you know, what side of the tea box you're
Speaker 1: teeing off from. And just seeing that like click in
Speaker 1: her brain was like so gratifying to me. And it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where I'm just like people don't
Speaker 1: ask questions anymore. They just everybody knows everything, and I
Speaker 1: know I know nothing because I just want to learn
Speaker 1: everything that I can. So to see someone that's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I you know something, can you help me?
Speaker 1: And I'm just like you think I know something. Oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, Okay, well, like let's fucking go. Does this
Speaker 1: go for? Have a name Christina? Her name is Destiny Lawson.
Speaker 1: She is a Class A p g A member because
Speaker 1: she went to fair Estate through their PGM program, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, she's she's Class A. Her name is Destiny,
Speaker 1: really Destiny. Her name is Destiny. We call her d
Speaker 1: law Um. Yeah. It's not to sound like a bunch
Speaker 1: of old farts here, but it is amazing because I
Speaker 1: have college kids reach out to me on Twitter say, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to be a sportswriter. You know, can I
Speaker 1: pick your brain for some advice? And of course I
Speaker 1: always say yes. I was like, call me on Tuesday
Speaker 1: at two o'clock, here's my number, and they won't call.
Speaker 1: I'm flabbergasted because, like when I was up and coming,
Speaker 1: if I had a chance to talk to Michael Bamberger
Speaker 1: like I was living for, I got to plan my
Speaker 1: week around it. And this has happened so often. I'm
Speaker 1: realizing this is like some sort of weird generational thing,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if it's states if I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't define what it is, but I know of
Speaker 1: what you speak, Like there there seems to be this barrier,
Speaker 1: maybe because everyone lives their life on their phone now
Speaker 1: that they're the human interaction is too much. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I've been stood up so many times by college
Speaker 1: kids and maybe it's just my personality. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it just seems like, yeah, that that that curiosity
Speaker 1: has dissipated as a as a as a as a thing,
Speaker 1: and so I'm happy to hear that that you're you're
Speaker 1: finding people to mentor because it's not always easy. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to be laughing, but what college kid calls on
Speaker 1: the phone though out well, because well I don't want
Speaker 1: to text with someone for half an hour, like if
Speaker 1: they want career advice, hop on a zoom hop on
Speaker 1: like a Microsoft team's thing or something like that. Do
Speaker 1: voice notes, kids do voice notes all the time. Dean
Speaker 1: Beamon returned my call today. I called Dean Beamon and
Speaker 1: he called me back and he left me his phone number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's well, he's eighty five. That that should happen.
Speaker 1: But Christie, who's the biggest legend in golf that you
Speaker 1: have played with? Male? Male or female or otherwise? Oh
Speaker 1: it would be for me either. Lorraino oh Chowa, I'm
Speaker 1: very biased as well as part of the reason, like
Speaker 1: that she's just straight up sticking out in my mind,
Speaker 1: or Serri Pok the kind of impact that the two
Speaker 1: of them have had, Like because with Sari Pok, like
Speaker 1: her her, the way that she was able to change
Speaker 1: the face of golf for like people talk about Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods and there's no question about that. But the impact
Speaker 1: that Seri Pok had on golf in Asia, I think
Speaker 1: is is you can't even compare the two. It is
Speaker 1: just unbelieved. It's it's I think it's got to be Saie.
Speaker 1: It's got to be Saie for me personally, Um, I
Speaker 1: caddied for John Daily a couple of couple of months
Speaker 1: ago and a random long, just random sort of situation thing. Um,
Speaker 1: and he's just he's a legend in a in a
Speaker 1: completely different sense. Um. But you know, yeah, I would,
Speaker 1: I would. I would have to say it's got to
Speaker 1: be Seray PoCA. Lorena is a very close second. But
Speaker 1: I think that there is a there is a fair
Speaker 1: bit of bias in that in that initial response. Well,
Speaker 1: and so we had she was like had a queenly presence.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was she was like Regal, There's something
Speaker 1: about her, the way she carried herself obviously, the way
Speaker 1: she played the game was so beautiful. But she's still
Speaker 1: in Korea. She will go out in big glasses, scarf
Speaker 1: around her neck, and people will in a big gass
Speaker 1: hat and people will be like, I know those thighs
Speaker 1: and chase her around Korea. It is unbelievable. As Jeff
Speaker 1: about it, Jeff, do you remember Sarry Peck when she
Speaker 1: first came on the scene, Not not so much the
Speaker 1: madness about it, but the quality of that golf swing.
Speaker 1: I don't know that women's got and there was Mickey
Speaker 1: Wright who was in class by yourself. But Jeff, do
Speaker 1: you remember looking at her swing when she first came
Speaker 1: on the scene. Yeah, yeah, because that was kind of
Speaker 1: just before Carry was coming out, and Carry sort of
Speaker 1: made Australians pay attention to the r p g A Again.
Speaker 1: I think you know she was a proper legend um.
Speaker 1: So I remember watching A, remember watching it a a little
Speaker 1: bit um and loving her action. Yeah. I can't say
Speaker 1: I could picture it right now, but I remember being
Speaker 1: impressed with her game. I mean, her and Anika and
Speaker 1: Carry just showed just elevated the level I feel like
Speaker 1: to me, I mean, I hadn't been watching enough before.
Speaker 1: That's probably a ridiculous thing to say, but they played
Speaker 1: such a high level of golf there that um it
Speaker 1: got me watching. To be honest. Yeah, I would say
Speaker 1: I would say Car in Surrey Pack really come out
Speaker 1: of that scene. But it was so round and so beautiful,
Speaker 1: and Ernie very similarly, and and Michelle we as a
Speaker 1: team literally at thirteen was the same. Just so beautiful
Speaker 1: and so rhythmic. It was what a spectacular swimming, What
Speaker 1: an exciting time for women's golf, and as you say,
Speaker 1: Christina grew the game and incredibly. I mean, and look
Speaker 1: at the LPG today really well you know when Justin
Speaker 1: Rose and Jordan Speed and all these formerly young but
Speaker 1: now you know it's the thirties. Golfers talk about tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: but that's every Pack influences every bit of significant on
Speaker 1: the LPG h to this day. Yeah, yeah, I know
Speaker 1: she was special and thinking about carry, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think car is one of the greatest athletes I've ever
Speaker 1: seen in golf. Because it was actually in Australia, went
Speaker 1: down there to cover the on the LPG event and
Speaker 1: she wound up, Um, they I can get this, my verbon.
Speaker 1: She was bowling? Is that right? When when you're playing, um,
Speaker 1: when you're playing cricket, is she's the bowler? I mean
Speaker 1: she she had the velocity and she was like dancing
Speaker 1: out there, and it was like an eye opener, like
Speaker 1: it was all it was all the golfers were playing
Speaker 1: and she was at a completely different level, just the
Speaker 1: way the way she moved, and it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I kind of get it like this not just
Speaker 1: as an I swing, like she's a supreme athlete. That
Speaker 1: was That was a moment of clarity for me. Christian.
Speaker 1: When you think of women's majors, how many, how many?
Speaker 1: How many are there in your mind? I would say
Speaker 1: this is by far the longest pause you've had from
Speaker 1: Christina on anything. I mean trying to think if I
Speaker 1: want to round up to four. It's such a good answer.
Speaker 1: I mean if we were talking five years ago then yeah,
Speaker 1: or even three years ago, yeah, the answer would have
Speaker 1: been four. Okay, you feel like the dinosaur has been diminished.
Speaker 1: It's it's I just i I'm I'm very sad that
Speaker 1: we have left Palm Springs and that we have left
Speaker 1: a golf course that was designed specifically for us and
Speaker 1: our major championship. And I'm sad that we're no longer
Speaker 1: going to have a leap into pop He's pond and
Speaker 1: I am sad that, um, we're going to Texas. And
Speaker 1: the announcement was made, Um, you know when they were
Speaker 1: talking about wanting to do abortion bands and things like that,
Speaker 1: like you know, funny stuff. UM. And I was sad
Speaker 1: that there was a group of the membership over at
Speaker 1: Mission Hills that was happy to see us go and
Speaker 1: didn't want us back there anyway for the last few years.
Speaker 1: And I'm um and and above all else like Chevron
Speaker 1: have done that, I will admit, like freely admit they've
Speaker 1: done an unbelievable job with the tournament. And I've seen
Speaker 1: it go from you know, the the from the Kraft
Speaker 1: Nabisco to just yeah, the Kraft Nabisco to just the Craft,
Speaker 1: and then from the Craft, you know, it was the
Speaker 1: a and a inspiration and then now it's you know,
Speaker 1: the Chevron. So I've seen I've seen different iterations of
Speaker 1: this tournament by way of sponsors. Um. And it was
Speaker 1: a Dinoshoan at Kraft Nibisco as well. UM. But the
Speaker 1: fact that it's unknown. I don't know the golf courp
Speaker 1: us that we're going to in Texas. I don't know
Speaker 1: what my thoughts are of playing in Texas at that
Speaker 1: time of year. I I don't know what types of
Speaker 1: traditions they're going to try and not try, but they
Speaker 1: are going to create for us. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: the the legacy of what Amy Alcott did by jumping
Speaker 1: into Poppies gunky Aspond that year for that very first
Speaker 1: time is it embodies so much of the spirit of
Speaker 1: the game and the fact that we've left that is
Speaker 1: is difficult. UM. So I only say rounding up to
Speaker 1: four because I don't know what it's going to be
Speaker 1: like in Texas. UM, but I love that. You know
Speaker 1: what the RNA has done with um you know what
Speaker 1: the A I G Women's Open, and you know the
Speaker 1: the U S the U S Women's Open is. You
Speaker 1: know that was always cream of the crop for me.
Speaker 1: That was always the biggest dream of my life. And
Speaker 1: KPMG with the Women's PG Championship have really stepped up
Speaker 1: and they are they are knocking on the door for
Speaker 1: most incredible major in in in the women's game for
Speaker 1: me right now, but I do you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a nice battle to be able to witness and
Speaker 1: and partake in. UM. But truth be told, nothing will
Speaker 1: ever top the U S Women's Open for me. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know it's it's it's just nice, you know,
Speaker 1: just knowing that you know, the Women's Open, you know
Speaker 1: is has only you know, it's only been a major
Speaker 1: for what twenty twenty some years, twenty one year or
Speaker 1: something like that. UM, so you know, there's yeah. And
Speaker 1: then we got heavy on yeah. Indeed, um little tournaments
Speaker 1: didn't pay for their for their major role. Spicy but correct. Um,
Speaker 1: well that might that might be like the mic drop
Speaker 1: we need here to to end this podcast, Jeff, Jeff
Speaker 1: use a term little bit earlier about a different player,
Speaker 1: but proper legend. I think, I think in your own way,
Speaker 1: c K like you've you've been a huge force out
Speaker 1: there on the LPGA just UM, and it's awesome to
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts and so many different things. Um, we
Speaker 1: finally got this done. It was a little scheduling challenge,
Speaker 1: so thank you. But I should I should mention that
Speaker 1: Christina is using my daughter's laptop my microphone. I went
Speaker 1: to Best Buy to get the little doo hickey to
Speaker 1: connect them, which I didn't find until like a couple
Speaker 1: of minutes before we came on, and I was like, Alan,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? When we did our podcast, it was
Speaker 1: always something happening. There was always some sort of a
Speaker 1: glitch somewhere something. He'd always show up four minutes late
Speaker 1: like this that like you've made You've made some big strides, Alan,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you and I've missed you. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know me too. I'm so happy your back on these airwaves.
Speaker 1: Um boys, before we before we let Christina go, any
Speaker 1: any parting thoughts, Well, it's just so governed nerdy. I'm
Speaker 1: afraid to bring it up. But Christine and uh Jeff
Speaker 1: hit a wooden driver today, and I'm curious if you
Speaker 1: ever have done that in your life. Absolutely, I loved
Speaker 1: per Simmons. I actually have a special edition Niblick back
Speaker 1: at the house. Her name is Josephine because she is beautiful,
Speaker 1: but she's a complete um. And my my boyfriend Duncan
Speaker 1: has a full set of hickory sticks. Um, I've got
Speaker 1: a replica gutty ball. I yeah, I mean I I
Speaker 1: I like to kind of joke and and say, you know,
Speaker 1: I because I actually started playing golf. It was like
Speaker 1: in ninety five night. Yeah, towards the end of ninety five.
Speaker 1: And so we had, you know, like the original tailor
Speaker 1: made burner, which was the metal head, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and so I but my dad, we do have
Speaker 1: a few per Simmons and and and wooden golf clubs
Speaker 1: back at the house. And I have played with a few,
Speaker 1: and I am still in complete awe over the golf
Speaker 1: clubs that they used back in the day, if nothing more,
Speaker 1: because the grips are so i you know, I mean
Speaker 1: these grips I'm using are you know, nine years old.
Speaker 1: So for me, they're just basically made out of criscoe.
Speaker 1: But um, just the way of they've been able to
Speaker 1: use their hands back in those days with those unbelievable
Speaker 1: golf clubs is it's pretty badass. Jeff. What was the
Speaker 1: experience like for you today with a wooden club? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's always fun. It was fun. I mean it goes
Speaker 1: sidewise when you miss it, which is a problem. Um,
Speaker 1: you gotta take it up a lot lower to like
Speaker 1: that head is small, You've got to tee it up lower,
Speaker 1: and you have to almost have a negative angle of attack,
Speaker 1: like it's it's the way that we all used to play,
Speaker 1: you know, we never no one ever swung up on
Speaker 1: the driver back in the day with those you know,
Speaker 1: those those small metal heads. Yeah, that's true. It's definitely different,
Speaker 1: but you adjust. It's good fun like it is great fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would advise anybody who really loves golf
Speaker 1: to like fun. I don't anybody else something and just
Speaker 1: do it once a month or something. It's great on
Speaker 1: it's just a different It's like drawing a manual transmission car. Right,
Speaker 1: It's just you're just a bit more involved or something.
Speaker 1: It's just something awe about it with a bull's eye,
Speaker 1: you know. Every now and then, it's just good. It's fun.
Speaker 1: That's great. I love it. Well, So Christina, you now
Speaker 1: have to leave the conversation. It's like high school. You
Speaker 1: leave the room and then we're gonna talk about you.
Speaker 1: So okay. Well, um, if I can say thank you
Speaker 1: guys and these podcasts, it's not I'm not picking on you.
Speaker 1: This is a tradition. Thank you very much for having
Speaker 1: had me on. It was taking out with you guys,
Speaker 1: and I will I'll see y'all later, I guess I
Speaker 1: was glad to get her in your past. Well that
Speaker 1: was fun. She's just unique, man, I've always loved Christina.
Speaker 1: How did that come about that you wrote a book
Speaker 1: with her? It goes back to she was in in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two and three. I was in the
Speaker 1: offices in sports I'll start working as an editor, as
Speaker 1: you'll recall, Michael, and that was when Christina kind of
Speaker 1: burst onto the scene and I was just so fascinated
Speaker 1: by her, but never and her interviews were a riot,
Speaker 1: and I never really got a chance to be around her.
Speaker 1: So when I went back on the beat and know
Speaker 1: fore I said I wanted to write about Christina Kim,
Speaker 1: it was like top of my list, and we just
Speaker 1: really hit it off. You know. She grew up about
Speaker 1: sixty miles from where I did here in northern California,
Speaker 1: and she was very much a California kid, and her
Speaker 1: dad was crazy and they were still traveling in this big,
Speaker 1: huge beating up van and every She was just so unique,
Speaker 1: even back then, the crazy outfits and um. So then
Speaker 1: we just always stayed in touch. And you know, fast
Speaker 1: forward almost ten years and she had had a very
Speaker 1: eclectic career and I was looking for a kind of
Speaker 1: a book project, but something that was gonna be somewhat contained,
Speaker 1: you know, just and so I we just it's basically
Speaker 1: a die of her season. It's in her voice. I
Speaker 1: was just a ghostwriter. But we had a lot of
Speaker 1: meals and we spend a lot of time on the phone,
Speaker 1: and it was a great pleasure. And obviously Christie is
Speaker 1: not afraid to tell it like it is. So it's
Speaker 1: a very honest book about her own struggles about life
Speaker 1: on tour, about um, you know, all the clicks in
Speaker 1: the LPGA and everything in between. So so we've we've
Speaker 1: always been you know, friends, and we've always been closed. No,
Speaker 1: so I'll have to read it. Yeah, well I'll bring
Speaker 1: you one, Jeff, when I come down to the Sandfeld Classic.
Speaker 1: So alright, there we go back a twoitcase full of books.
Speaker 1: All right, we better we better let Jeff go. He's
Speaker 1: not only did drink like two glasses of red wine
Speaker 1: during this podcast because a little scale, little tournament golf
Speaker 1: to play tomorrow, So all right, we'll be ready to
Speaker 1: get the woods out. Yeah exactly. You guys have a
Speaker 1: lot of balls for that. No, we're using button balls. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think the old ones. I've got some blatas,
Speaker 1: some old like three two hundreds and stuff, and they
Speaker 1: just don't. I think they must have had a use
Speaker 1: by date or something. Plats don't think. I mean, does
Speaker 1: anybody have like because I definitely don't go how they
Speaker 1: used to go. I mean I went, great, No, we're
Speaker 1: near like mudern bowls. But I mean I mean Jack
Speaker 1: and Greg and wat to Tom and said, you know,
Speaker 1: and I used to hit a miles, right, I mean
Speaker 1: I used to grow when I had niled one. Um. Yeah. Different,
Speaker 1: but yeah, modern bowls, that's quite fun. It's different. Well
Speaker 1: that's like, yeah, I'm sure there is some decompass. And
Speaker 1: I saw this this funny thing on social media where
Speaker 1: it was like this highbrow salt that was said, mind
Speaker 1: from from the you know, the Great Salt Flats of
Speaker 1: Ethiopia or whatever, two fifty million years ago it was created.
Speaker 1: It's like sell by July because it's it's a plastic packaging,
Speaker 1: so you know, I think it's I think you're onto
Speaker 1: something there, Jeff. But well, well then well done by
Speaker 1: you forgetting Christina to uh to join us. That was terrific.
Speaker 1: And uh, I never really focused on the length of
Speaker 1: her career. But you know, for twenty years of keeping
Speaker 1: your card and I'm gonna guess making more money than
Speaker 1: she spent for twenty straight years, as Jeff would a
Speaker 1: test not easy to do and then you and then
Speaker 1: you throw in the yips and mental struggles and just
Speaker 1: life on the road and it's hard. And I give
Speaker 1: for a tremendous amount of credit for doing what she's done. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: twenty year is a long time, A long time, still
Speaker 1: full of life, you know, and uh yeah, she's she
Speaker 1: brings the energy to everything. I mean, you know, I've
Speaker 1: never seen her not be that bubbly and so should
Speaker 1: be a future Solheim Cup captain, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: And she's had a nice career. The politics of those seeings,
Speaker 1: Jeff knows better than anybody else. You know, he's wearing
Speaker 1: the international hat right now, so for the from the
Speaker 1: President's Cup, So she would be in the running. I
Speaker 1: mean I think she would. She would be galvanizing and
Speaker 1: I think she'd be great fun. And you know it
Speaker 1: is it's a performative aspect to being the captain. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of media. You've got to get people
Speaker 1: excited and she'd be incredible at that, so I would
Speaker 1: support it, but who knows how these decisions get made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for bringing it on. Yeah, you got it all right? Well,
Speaker 1: this was another need of fourth. We will be doing
Speaker 1: these every week for perpetuity if we can we can.
Speaker 1: Jeff's like, goll, get you out of here. Where's the
Speaker 1: weak button? Jeff? You are you? Are you playing with Fred? Tomorrow?
Speaker 1: With Fred? Yeah? Are you? And he? Partners May and
Speaker 1: Fred a Potner's against Sander and Dane Wilson. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Just in case anyone listening is not clear, this is
Speaker 1: jeff'son in Oceanside for the Wishbone Brawl, annual um charity
Speaker 1: fundraiser for for junior golf. And you get these these
Speaker 1: great players playing with per simmon On at Goat Hill,
Speaker 1: which is only less than five thousand yards but quite
Speaker 1: a fun little test. No Gallery Ropes is one of
Speaker 1: the really cool events and in all of golf, and
Speaker 1: so we'll be cheering for for Jeff and Fred for sure.
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap up this podcast for Jeff Vogilvie, Michael Bamberger,
Speaker 1: I'm aland Chef Nick. This was need a fourth and
Speaker 1: we'll do it again soon. Mm hmmm mm hm. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's a dangerous group here