Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, our friend Michael Malice.
Speaker 1: He is back, He is in action, and he is
Speaker 1: ready to party. The White Pill is his book, which
Speaker 1: I have right here. I was assigned this as homework
Speaker 1: by Michael, and hopefully I'll get a passing grade. I
Speaker 1: did have to read like the latter half of it quickly,
Speaker 1: but I did read it. The White Pill a tale
Speaker 1: of good and evil, and I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of lessons. There's a lot of great history in this, Michael,
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. I think one of the areas,
Speaker 1: even for people in this country who think of themselves
Speaker 1: as history bufficer or what have you, the actual history
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Revolution and more broadly, what was really
Speaker 1: going on in the Soviet Union is a massive, massive
Speaker 1: hole in the education of American history, I think, and
Speaker 1: your book, again right here, goes a nice way to
Speaker 1: addressing some of that gap. I think that's also partly
Speaker 1: by design that there's this massive hole, because what we're
Speaker 1: taught in schools, we like to have a nice little
Speaker 1: narrative that there's the good guys and the bad guys,
Speaker 1: and the Founding Fathers were all the good guys, and
Speaker 1: the Brits were the bad guys, and then the North
Speaker 1: were the good guys and the South were the bad guys.
Speaker 1: And then world War Two the Allies where the good
Speaker 1: guys and the Axis were the bad guys. Now it's
Speaker 1: clear that the Axis were the bad guys. But we're
Speaker 1: partners with Stalin, and if you start getting into too
Speaker 1: much of what Stalin did, all of a sudden that
Speaker 1: little good guys bad guys thing falls apart, and I
Speaker 1: think that does an enormous disservice. As a friend of
Speaker 1: mine pointed out, which genocidal ideology should I be more
Speaker 1: worried about the one that lost or the one that won.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important for especially conservatives, who kind
Speaker 1: of often have this incorrect idea that things started getting
Speaker 1: bad twenty years ago, and all these different organizations, whether
Speaker 1: the universities or Hollywood or Washington, were somehow co opted
Speaker 1: by the left. This is not only not new, but
Speaker 1: what had been going on, especially in the thirties. It
Speaker 1: was so much worse, is so much more depraved in
Speaker 1: many ways than what we're facing now that I thought
Speaker 1: it was important to put forward. You know exactly what
Speaker 1: half of the world effectively went through. And it saddens
Speaker 1: me that so many people, and obviously I was born
Speaker 1: in the Civil Union, so many people and what they
Speaker 1: went through is being forgotten when this is a victory
Speaker 1: that happened in the lifetimes of pretty much everyone listening
Speaker 1: to this show. Yes, you could definitely argue the greatest
Speaker 1: in terms of population and number of people, the greatest
Speaker 1: liberation of humanity to freedom from abject tyranny occurred in
Speaker 1: your lifetime and in my lifetime, and it's really not
Speaker 1: thought of in that context. I think, I think nearly enough.
Speaker 1: I don't think people understan and you know, we think
Speaker 1: we have a bit of a cartoonish view. And look,
Speaker 1: I love Rocky for I'm not saying it's not a
Speaker 1: really fun movie. But you know, the Soviets, I think
Speaker 1: in retrospect or thought of almost more as um and
Speaker 1: the whole Soviet system as you know, poor but poor, buffoonish,
Speaker 1: oh fish. You know, we have all these these this
Speaker 1: this notion of the Commissar whether it's in It's in
Speaker 1: um the Hunt for Red October, or you know, any
Speaker 1: of the any of the pop culture, it's always some
Speaker 1: fat Russian guy with a bunch of metals on. There's
Speaker 1: like I'm during going vodka, and it's like these people
Speaker 1: were actually sending women and children and and and everybody
Speaker 1: to effectively extermination camps in Siberia and to mass imprisonment
Speaker 1: and to mass torture, and it's not thought of him
Speaker 1: quite that way. And I think your book explores that.
Speaker 1: I also think it's important for you to continue to
Speaker 1: tell people why is that, Michael, Why why is it
Speaker 1: that the there's always a soft pedaling of the Soviet atrocity. Well,
Speaker 1: I think one of the big reasons, and I'm confident
Speaker 1: that you'd agree, is that so many people in the
Speaker 1: West had had blood on their hands as a consequence.
Speaker 1: Despite what you know political when the New York Times
Speaker 1: might tell you in twenty twenty three, there was never
Speaker 1: a strong Nazi presence in the United States. This is
Speaker 1: not a thing. You had the button, but they were
Speaker 1: basically kind of marginalized in a joke. There was very
Speaker 1: much a very strong not just communist in the sense
Speaker 1: of oh, I believe in communism is an ideal, but
Speaker 1: literally many people answering directly to Stalin and the far
Speaker 1: side of what later became the Iron Curtain, and the
Speaker 1: one time when they were accountable for their actions. The
Speaker 1: fact that you know, we gave someone who's killed millions
Speaker 1: of his own countrymen, got handed the Adam bomb, and
Speaker 1: things like this. The fact that so many of these
Speaker 1: Western outlets are still in power today, are still treated
Speaker 1: with respect today, is I think a major reason why
Speaker 1: this is soft pedaled. There's a great quote in the
Speaker 1: book that I found. You know, we were all told that,
Speaker 1: you know, the night the McCarthyism, you know which hunts,
Speaker 1: and you know a play right, I'm like in her name?
Speaker 1: She was like, But there weren't which is in Salem.
Speaker 1: But there were these communists. These were people actively and
Speaker 1: intentionally members of an organization dedicated to secretly and to
Speaker 1: violent overthrow of the United States government in the service
Speaker 1: of what had been at the time the most evil
Speaker 1: or maybe one of the two most evil governments on earth.
Speaker 1: So it's never framed in that way, and I think
Speaker 1: I did what little I could do to point out
Speaker 1: exactly what it was that was so bad about their views.
Speaker 1: It's not that they're just look, I'm for equality and
Speaker 1: you know, buck, everyone has to have a job and
Speaker 1: we need more housing please, you know, it is so
Speaker 1: removed from that. It is defending people being tortured. It
Speaker 1: is defending children being taught in school to turn their
Speaker 1: parents into the police, even if they their parents have
Speaker 1: retribution and kill them. It is starvation for political purposes.
Speaker 1: It is mass deportation of many people from their ancestral
Speaker 1: lands in order to break them and for the sake
Speaker 1: of the common good, so that they're subservient to the state.
Speaker 1: None of these things are discussed in the West, and frankly,
Speaker 1: I think in many ways it's a failure of conservatism
Speaker 1: where you know, the worst thing that often is said
Speaker 1: about about communism is that it's godless. But it's so
Speaker 1: it's not just godless, it's downright satanic. Yes, no, it
Speaker 1: goes beyond that. There's a there's a sadism. And actually
Speaker 1: that's for anybody. And you there's so many really poignant
Speaker 1: anecdotes in the book about you know, for example, the
Speaker 1: little girl. This is from Michael's book. There's a little
Speaker 1: girl who is outside in a breadline, we always think
Speaker 1: of the Soviet breadlines, and again we have this this
Speaker 1: sort of mentality of its people. You know, they're in
Speaker 1: the babush gun. It's sad, and they're in line there.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, actually, the guy at the front of
Speaker 1: the line sees a girl who's part of the Kulak
Speaker 1: class because they're all online waiting for food, right, and
Speaker 1: hits her with an ife and kicks her in the
Speaker 1: stomach and she dies right there, a little girl who's starving,
Speaker 1: that dies in front of everybody. And his response to this,
Speaker 1: as you write in the book, is you know, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you never know where the class enemies are
Speaker 1: going to come from, right, or there's something you know,
Speaker 1: this is another sign of the weakness of our class enemies.
Speaker 1: There's no humanity, there's no decency, And that's just that.
Speaker 1: That's a a vignette that I think exposes um so
Speaker 1: much more of us. I mean, for example, the Gulag Archipelago,
Speaker 1: which people you know Orwell is amazing and gets a
Speaker 1: lot of credit. Though Orwell was kind of a slowly
Speaker 1: reforming socialist himself, or reforming at all. He was a
Speaker 1: hardcore socialist to the day he died. Well, he went less,
Speaker 1: He went less less socialist. I think, I would argue
Speaker 1: he was starting to see the problems of a socialist system.
Speaker 1: He said explicitly, every word I write is in defense
Speaker 1: of democratic socialism. I don't understand it democratic socialism, right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell ye not. Well, I mean, but this
Speaker 1: is no. But this is the game they play all
Speaker 1: the time, like what's it? Dive seen Bernie Sanders and Stalin.
Speaker 1: One is democratic socialism and one is you know, socialism socialism.
Speaker 1: So no, I actually I do think that there's some
Speaker 1: there's some game that maybe it's false, but there's a
Speaker 1: game that's played with the moderation of what the socialist
Speaker 1: intent actually is. And Orwell recognize that a truly empowered
Speaker 1: socialist state now national socialist state. But that would be
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation too, created the horrors that he
Speaker 1: wrote about. Anyway, I didn't want to get into the
Speaker 1: Orwell discussion as much as I just wanted to say,
Speaker 1: souls and Eats in I think is as important an
Speaker 1: author and is probably assigned in school you know one
Speaker 1: percent as often or you know one tenth maybe as often,
Speaker 1: and you know souls and eats in I think in
Speaker 1: the Gulag Archipelago, the thing that really strikes people is
Speaker 1: just how evil people in this system were willing to
Speaker 1: be every day and it was nothing and no one cares.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just they're willing, they're excited. This was their
Speaker 1: channel who however, somebody else that people who are arrested
Speaker 1: for political purposes were told explicitly, you are lower than
Speaker 1: rapists and murderers because they're still people. You're an enemy
Speaker 1: of the people, And it was encouraged, and we see
Speaker 1: this still to this day in North Korea. It is
Speaker 1: you're encouraged to be cruel and vindictive and make them
Speaker 1: suffer because you're the good guys and there's something far
Speaker 1: beneath human. This is something obviously very mirrored in Nazi ideology.
Speaker 1: So it's extremely you know, it's extremely disturbing when you
Speaker 1: look at historically what these systems mean in practice, right,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's this whole idea of what communism
Speaker 1: is great in theory but bad in practice. What everything
Speaker 1: is great in theory, what does that even mean? Like,
Speaker 1: what kind of idea is bad in theory. It is
Speaker 1: practice where you determine whether an idea is good or not.
Speaker 1: And when we saw, over decades, over how many countries,
Speaker 1: what this meant for the average person. You know, children
Speaker 1: chained to cribs because they were handed over by their
Speaker 1: starving parents, who were told the government can raise them
Speaker 1: better than they could, who gave up uncrying because they
Speaker 1: knew no one was going to come to pick pick
Speaker 1: them up. You and I and pretty much everyone listening
Speaker 1: to the show can sit all day long. And if
Speaker 1: we try to, like rack our brains for how sadistic
Speaker 1: we could be, we would never think of half these
Speaker 1: things because our brains aren't wired like this. We're not
Speaker 1: raised in cultures where it's considered appropriate at least yet
Speaker 1: to turn power against the weak and those who we
Speaker 1: don't like and just do just the most vindictive, vicious
Speaker 1: things and pat ourselves in the back for it. I
Speaker 1: want to bring this into our current context a little bit, actually,
Speaker 1: and I make the argument to people, and I can
Speaker 1: tell that it's it's really uncomfortable for them. But you know,
Speaker 1: you and I were in contact a lot during the
Speaker 1: COVID and what was going on in New York and
Speaker 1: the lockdowns, and I try to remind everyone that there
Speaker 1: was to your point about almost a glee, like there
Speaker 1: was a leave that some people took in the extreme
Speaker 1: of it all, and there was a clear joy that
Speaker 1: you would see in the eyes of people, just in
Speaker 1: the eyes who were masked police, for example, walking around
Speaker 1: or telling you why aren't you're close to me? Social
Speaker 1: distancing they took. They took some level of joy and
Speaker 1: treating their fellow human beings as though they were unclean
Speaker 1: one and also that they could lord it over them
Speaker 1: in some way. Yes, and I say to everybody, you know, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, they weren't hurting us off into camps.
Speaker 1: I mean, they started to do something like that in Australia.
Speaker 1: They obviously did do that in China, but it also
Speaker 1: was a virus with a real fatality rate, a real
Speaker 1: fatality rate of you know, point zero two maybe point
Speaker 1: zero zero two, depends on whose numbers now you want
Speaker 1: to believe. Spanish flew had a five percent fatality rate
Speaker 1: in the United States back when nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. So I feel like if people were willing
Speaker 1: to do that for something that wasn't that extreme, that
Speaker 1: we're actually much closer to falling into a full blown
Speaker 1: totalitarian society in America than anybody had previously realized. One
Speaker 1: of the big delusions I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: have is that America's magic in the sense that these
Speaker 1: things that happened in other countries can't possibly happen here.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people, especially on the right,
Speaker 1: when they looked at how their fellow countrymen acted during COVID,
Speaker 1: had a big wake up call as to how many
Speaker 1: people really regard liberty as their highest value. And what
Speaker 1: we saw and I learned in my research for The
Speaker 1: White Pill is in East Germany they had an enormous
Speaker 1: the biggest informant network the world I'd ever seen, thanks
Speaker 1: to the Stazi, which was their secret police. And after
Speaker 1: the wall fell and Germany was reunified, just the beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful scenes and some of my favorite parts of the book,
Speaker 1: you know, the Stazi archives were opened and a reporter
Speaker 1: spoke to one of these former Stazi recruiters and Buck,
Speaker 1: you and I probably thought, I certainly thought that, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's how it works. They capture me and they're like
Speaker 1: give me five names or else we're going to kill
Speaker 1: your family, And like, Buck, I love you, but if
Speaker 1: I got to drop your name to save my family.
Speaker 1: It's going to happen. And I think this situation would
Speaker 1: be reversed. You'd hold out as much as you could,
Speaker 1: but at a certain point you're like, listen, I'm being
Speaker 1: I can't sleep. You're threatening my children, you're threatening my mom.
Speaker 1: I just got to give your names. I just can
Speaker 1: do anything to get the torture to stop. That's not
Speaker 1: what happened in East Germany. They were people who were
Speaker 1: just bored or lonely, or just wanted someone to talk to,
Speaker 1: or wanted to have the opportunity to feel important for
Speaker 1: once in their lives. So see, we don't have to
Speaker 1: speculate as to what it takes to get people to
Speaker 1: turn into informants and to be amenable to telltalitary and systems.
Speaker 1: We've seen it historically, and we've seen it here during COVID,
Speaker 1: and I would hope people realize that this is far
Speaker 1: more pervasive and far more universal part of the human
Speaker 1: experience than even I would have liked to have believed.
Speaker 1: You know, the there's a Souls and Eats in story
Speaker 1: and I remember where there's a woman who goes into
Speaker 1: the You know, this is obvious in the Soviet era,
Speaker 1: a woman goes into the effect of the local police
Speaker 1: station and says, you know, the constables, and says, because
Speaker 1: her neighbor had been seized another woman at night, never
Speaker 1: to be seen again, seized but left behind an infant,
Speaker 1: like a you know, six month old baby, and and
Speaker 1: she goes the neighbor goes to the police station to say,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, is the mother coming back? If not,
Speaker 1: you know, should I step in and do something here
Speaker 1: to help out with this baby's going to starve to death.
Speaker 1: They arrested the neighbor and when asked when when, when
Speaker 1: asked later on why one of these individuals why they
Speaker 1: arrested the neighbor, the explanation that Souldson heard from you know,
Speaker 1: another bureaucrat, another police officer, was to save them the time.
Speaker 1: That was the attitude. It's like, oh, you're already here.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna grab you, because we're probably gonna have
Speaker 1: to grab you at some point anyway, and you've already
Speaker 1: showed up to the station. So now you also go
Speaker 1: into the cell and you either go to Siberia or
Speaker 1: you just go up against a wall and we execute you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saving us the time that was the attitude.
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously that's a lethal matter and it's
Speaker 1: particularly depraved. But I really did get the sense, and
Speaker 1: I know people get mad at me when I say this,
Speaker 1: I get the sense that there were a lot of
Speaker 1: people who during COVID in this country not only would
Speaker 1: have complied with, but would have felt here's maybe a
Speaker 1: better way of putting in, Michael, there were people who
Speaker 1: were openly celebrating when other human beings died of a
Speaker 1: virus because they thought that they represented the anti Fauci
Speaker 1: point of view. That was widespread, yes, explicit and constant.
Speaker 1: But look to that point, with that, with that baby.
Speaker 1: The other reason for a rest is this is a
Speaker 1: country where kids are treated well the narrative. So if
Speaker 1: you're pointing on an example where kids are treated poorly,
Speaker 1: you're a provocateur, You're a troublemaker. Come with me. So
Speaker 1: what happens in these systems is pointing out hypocrisies or
Speaker 1: problems with the status quo in and of itself. Labels
Speaker 1: he was a counter revolutionary. So everyone very quickly has
Speaker 1: to learn to keep their heads down and keep their
Speaker 1: mouth shut. And this is something that those of us
Speaker 1: coming from there. It's just very weird to me talking
Speaker 1: to people who've been raised in like complete Americans, because
Speaker 1: a lot of times they'll say things that's just so
Speaker 1: different from how I was raised, and it's just things
Speaker 1: that just kind of I guess, you know you're culturally,
Speaker 1: you're just brought certain ways, like Americans are very big
Speaker 1: on Like I remember I had a group of people
Speaker 1: where everyone's trying to give each other advice and it's
Speaker 1: give a problem at work. Well, the American answer is
Speaker 1: always well, take the person, sit down and talk with them,
Speaker 1: have it out. And for someone from a Soviet background,
Speaker 1: it's like no, no. The first question is, well, what
Speaker 1: power does this person have because they might smile and
Speaker 1: not at the meeting, but then they'll stab you in
Speaker 1: the back later. Are they going to start a file
Speaker 1: on you? This is the kind of psychology that develops
Speaker 1: in these countries, and this is something Americans I think
Speaker 1: are thankfully very naive about about how vindictive and petty
Speaker 1: small bureaucrats often can be. And sadly, I think some
Speaker 1: Americans are starting to learn that the your nature of
Speaker 1: that And a good example of this is when the
Speaker 1: parents were protesting about the stuff being taught to their kids,
Speaker 1: and now the parents were an investigation and being labeled
Speaker 1: as terrorists or being alluded to as terrorists. This is
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that Americans just never think of.
Speaker 1: But it's like, yes, the government will. If the government
Speaker 1: can arrest terrorists very quickly, everyone who they don't like
Speaker 1: becomes a terrorist. Yeah, I'm I'm somebody who you know.
Speaker 1: There were There have been two moments, I think politically
Speaker 1: for me that have really shifted you could say my
Speaker 1: Overton window or my perception of the country and what
Speaker 1: we are, what we are up against. The first one
Speaker 1: was actually Kavanaugh, not even because it's like, oh, my gosh,
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. So much is at stake that the Kamala
Speaker 1: Harris was among them, that the most powerful voices in
Speaker 1: the Democrat Party and the Democrats Senate at the time,
Speaker 1: we're willing to clearly, erroneously and without any basis in
Speaker 1: any fact or any reality, call a man a rapist
Speaker 1: in front of his family in the whole country just
Speaker 1: because they didn't want him to have a job. That
Speaker 1: means they do it to your dad, that means they
Speaker 1: do it to your brother, they do to anybody, and
Speaker 1: feel good about themselves too. It does not matter. It
Speaker 1: did not matter to them. And then with COVID as well,
Speaker 1: the immiseration of millions of people, the deaths of despair
Speaker 1: that occurred as a result, the businesses that were destroyed,
Speaker 1: the livelihoods that were ruled. I mean, we go down
Speaker 1: the whole list. Not only were there people going along
Speaker 1: with all this, and this was the part of it
Speaker 1: that really rocked me as a New Yorker. It's why
Speaker 1: I'm no longer a New Yorker. People thought they were happy.
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, we're great, We're the good people.
Speaker 1: The monsters thought that they were the heroes. Michael. That's
Speaker 1: the problem. But Buck, I'm going to push back a
Speaker 1: little bit, and I don't think you're gonna disagree. The
Speaker 1: Democrats should have patted themselves in the back about kavanaughh
Speaker 1: because none of them have faced any consequences whatsoever for
Speaker 1: what they did, other than fundraising and being regard as
Speaker 1: leaders of a movement. Chuck Grassley, who was either the
Speaker 1: chairman or the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, has
Speaker 1: sent out press releases. I point out this story all
Speaker 1: the time, how he wrote letters to I think the
Speaker 1: Justice Department and either the FBIRA CIA demanding answers as
Speaker 1: to how Julie Sweatnick, who had no connection whatsoever to Kavanagh,
Speaker 1: who was claiming that multiple gang rape party she attended,
Speaker 1: he was somehow responsible for Avanadi. Her attorney went to jail.
Speaker 1: They couldn't get her on CNN fast enough. Grassley wrote
Speaker 1: a letter being like, what are the consequences for this woman?
Speaker 1: And in his press release he's boasting that his letters
Speaker 1: for a couple of years have now been ignored. So
Speaker 1: when you have one party that is willing to do
Speaker 1: this and the Republican responses, well, I'm going to write
Speaker 1: a sternly worded letter and no one's going to answer me.
Speaker 1: And I'm fighting for you. When you have this asymmetry,
Speaker 1: of course, the incentives are always going to be to
Speaker 1: be as tyrannical as possible, because there's no downside. I
Speaker 1: don't disagree with you, so saw that one coming. But
Speaker 1: let me ask you. We'll take a pause, Michael, because
Speaker 1: I want to put in a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 1: But a question I want to put out there that
Speaker 1: you can think about, and we'll come back to in
Speaker 1: a second. How close in ethos? How close in sentiment?
Speaker 1: Are the most radical elements of the Democrat Party in
Speaker 1: this country, and your average Soviet commissar circa nineteen fifty.
Speaker 1: Just pick a time. Well, I want to come back
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Speaker 1: T dot org. All right, Michael, returning to our question,
Speaker 1: how close are the not even the most radical, how
Speaker 1: close are the administrative elements of the Democrat Party in
Speaker 1: this country to the apparatus of the Soviets. I think
Speaker 1: I'm going to duck the question a little bit, but
Speaker 1: give you an answer you'll be happy with. I think
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and the members of the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: are far more moderate and mainstream than the members of
Speaker 1: the corporate press. I had a poll on my Twitter
Speaker 1: once and I said, if you had these are two
Speaker 1: choices people watching the show an't like. But if you
Speaker 1: had to choose to be the Supreme Court and you
Speaker 1: had the choices, where nine random Democratic Senators or nine
Speaker 1: random members of the New York Times editorial board, which
Speaker 1: would you choose? And I think it was like eighty
Speaker 1: twenty in favor of the Democratic Senate, the New York Times,
Speaker 1: and all these agencies. They're the ones who are making
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party wag. It's not the other way around.
Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example that demonstrates this point.
Speaker 1: Let's suppose I'm a Democratic Party congressman. I hate Trump.
Speaker 1: I think he's the worst. He's praising white nationalist of
Speaker 1: Charles Is, all the others, you know, the whole Rigamar role.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I don't think he committed any
Speaker 1: impeachable offenses. I think he shouldn't be president. He's terrible,
Speaker 1: so and so forth. How could I go in front
Speaker 1: of my constituents as a Democratic congressperson when twenty four
Speaker 1: seven they're hearing Trump Rusher collusion, Ukraine phone call, so
Speaker 1: and so forth and say, guys, he's horrible, the worst
Speaker 1: president ever. But that's not enough for impeachment. I would
Speaker 1: not be in that position. So that demonstrates who has
Speaker 1: the power on the left intellectually in this country. It
Speaker 1: is far more than the media, who is accountable to
Speaker 1: no one as opposed to every day Mitch McConnell, Nancy
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy and Chuck Schumer will tell you
Speaker 1: how the other person's terrible. No one is holding the
Speaker 1: New York Times or the Wash to Post accountable other
Speaker 1: than idiots like myself on Twitter. So that to me
Speaker 1: is the far bigger concern. So and as to the
Speaker 1: operatrics in the fifties, they didn't really care. They weren't ideologues.
Speaker 1: It's like I think it's a Upton Sinclair is a
Speaker 1: big character in this book, and there's a quote ascribed
Speaker 1: to him where it's almost impossible to teach a man
Speaker 1: to believe something when his salary depends on him not
Speaker 1: believing it. If I'm in the nineteen fifties and the
Speaker 1: only way I could get food is to parrot Stalinism,
Speaker 1: and if I slip up, that sword's gonna kill me
Speaker 1: in my family, I'll be singing louder than everybody else.
Speaker 1: You don't, and you know those saying goes. You don't
Speaker 1: want to be the first one to stop clapping for Stalin.
Speaker 1: So I think people need to appreciate that a lot
Speaker 1: of times, these these entities in these organizations aren't a
Speaker 1: function literally of ideology so much as people responding to
Speaker 1: very perverse incentives, and often those incentives are a matter
Speaker 1: of life and death for them and their families. I
Speaker 1: also think that there there are things, and you get
Speaker 1: into some of them in book in terms of the
Speaker 1: level of awfulness, the every day awfulness too. It's not bad.
Speaker 1: Things will happen in a lot of countries, but you'll
Speaker 1: remember them as well. That was an awful moment. You
Speaker 1: know that that was something terrible that happened, but it
Speaker 1: was just every day, right, the every day awfulness of
Speaker 1: living under the Soviet regime. But there are also stories
Speaker 1: that I think people they just refuse to believe. And
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting that in the Death of Stalin,
Speaker 1: which was a pretty well made movie, for what it is,
Speaker 1: that whole sequence, that whole sequence in the beginning where
Speaker 1: Stalin calls in and wants a copy. However they did
Speaker 1: it you know, old school records. I forget what it is,
Speaker 1: but wanted a copy of the of the you know,
Speaker 1: Moscow Orchestra performance, and they had already finished. They did
Speaker 1: wake up the conductor and bring everyone back and do
Speaker 1: a rerecording of it. Like, they brought everybody back, and
Speaker 1: I believe they even tried to bring back members of
Speaker 1: the audience too. So they had a performance at the
Speaker 1: main theater and I think it was Moscow, might have
Speaker 1: been Saint Petersburg, but I think it was Moscow, and
Speaker 1: they actually brought everybody back. And people, look, there's no
Speaker 1: way that actually happened. That actually did happen, because everyone
Speaker 1: was terrified if it didn't do it. He was going
Speaker 1: to have their family killed as well as them, you know,
Speaker 1: all the horrible things you can imagine that was life
Speaker 1: for people. Yeah, it's it's the artists are you know,
Speaker 1: had a particularly tough time because if everything, anything can
Speaker 1: be perceived as in any way not praising the system enough.
Speaker 1: We see that even here with the political pregnics to
Speaker 1: far lesser extent. Obviously people aren't getting murdered. But there's
Speaker 1: this one story. I want to get this exact, the
Speaker 1: exact details. Um uh here of um, there was a
Speaker 1: play that Stalin didn't like, um and basically overnight, you know,
Speaker 1: your career is just ruined. Apple can be sent away.
Speaker 1: Everyone who's ever been associated with you, uh gets I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get the exact I think it. Shostakovich, I
Speaker 1: want to get it exactly here. Yeah, Shostakovich was in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, you know, he had a play called
Speaker 1: Lady the Lady Macbeth MTNSK. There were articles about it
Speaker 1: two days later, and the community stood up for him.
Speaker 1: Because Shostakovich was and remains one of the great composers
Speaker 1: of all time. Stalin just didn't happen to like one.
Speaker 1: As a consequence of this, so the director's wife. He
Speaker 1: stayed with the director's house. Her wife was stabbed to
Speaker 1: death in the eyes when a marshal the Silviet Union.
Speaker 1: This guy's very high up to Tachevski. He was defended Shostakovich.
Speaker 1: He was tortured and shot. His body was sent to
Speaker 1: landfill the librettos of the of the of the performance,
Speaker 1: was arrested and shot. His ex girlfriend vanished, his brother
Speaker 1: in law who was a physicist, his sister, his mother
Speaker 1: in law, and his uncle. They were all arrested just
Speaker 1: because Stalin didn't like this play. So, you know, to
Speaker 1: your point, it's not that people were living in fear
Speaker 1: of like you know, maybe Buck. You had this tweet
Speaker 1: in college and crap, what if someone finds a screen
Speaker 1: shot and it's gonna look bad for my career. You're
Speaker 1: newly married. You, I've met your brothers. If something happens
Speaker 1: to you or if they can't get to you. But
Speaker 1: let's suppose I want to get to Buck. I don't
Speaker 1: need to get to Buck. I've got a circle around you.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, everyone listening to this can
Speaker 1: imagine themselves being tough, and there's nothing they can do
Speaker 1: to me. You could arrest me. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: break Bring in your wife, bring in your brothers. Put
Speaker 1: them in that cell. See what happens. And this is
Speaker 1: something I think in the West were so correctly proud
Speaker 1: of our respect for the individual and individual rights. It
Speaker 1: never even enters our head that innocent people who are
Speaker 1: simply family members. It's not only automatically that their targets,
Speaker 1: it's the law. It was a crime, a felony to
Speaker 1: be married to an enemy of the people. And if
Speaker 1: you're arrested enemy of the people, it's like you can't
Speaker 1: defend yourself, you know, the spouse can't say, well, I
Speaker 1: wasn't really arrested married to them, And right away what
Speaker 1: happens also is the children become orphans. And there was
Speaker 1: a lot of handwringing in the Kremlin because all these
Speaker 1: kids started killing themselves with good reason because overnight they
Speaker 1: were orphans and no one would associate with them, because
Speaker 1: why are you taking in a child of the enemy
Speaker 1: of the people. So the level of depravity and evil
Speaker 1: in these societies is so much worse than just like, oh,
Speaker 1: someone's this fat guy like you know, some faba food
Speaker 1: on the top, and it's his brother gets a pay
Speaker 1: cut and you're hungry and you have to learn stupid
Speaker 1: things at school. Oh please, Like that is nothing that's
Speaker 1: totally scratching the surface of what's going on in these society. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that people also don't spend enough time, or
Speaker 1: we don't. It's not thought of very often how much
Speaker 1: North Korea really tried in many ways, Yes, they're a
Speaker 1: huge very you know, there's people make the case that
Speaker 1: actually a racist Japanese imperial mindset was borrowed by essentially
Speaker 1: an ultra nationalist, ultra racial identity as part of North
Speaker 1: Korean ideology, but also in terms of the machinery of
Speaker 1: North Korea and how the Communist Party or whatever operates
Speaker 1: there is borrowed from the Soviets. I mean very you know,
Speaker 1: even even the fashion choices in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: say from China too, but guess what the Chinese communists
Speaker 1: bar them from the Soviets now borrow it implanted. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just directly important. In fact, a friend of mine, Peter,
Speaker 1: when he was looking at my photos of North Korea,
Speaker 1: he was just blown away. He goes, this looks like
Speaker 1: where I grew up. But there's Asian people walking around
Speaker 1: like he couldn't wrap his head around it looked identical
Speaker 1: to him. So this is one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: went to North Korea. It's like, all right, this is
Speaker 1: my only chance to see what it was like from
Speaker 1: my family, you know, seventy or eighty years ago. And
Speaker 1: let me assure everyone, it's it's no picnic, to put
Speaker 1: it mildly, although we did have a picnic. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: how does a society fall into this stuff? I mean,
Speaker 1: because that's always the you know, we look at the
Speaker 1: understanding the scope of the problem and understanding how awful
Speaker 1: it was, and we're far away from that. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm always amazed who I read about you know, what
Speaker 1: is it the Conquest, the Robert Conquest book where he
Speaker 1: talks about the great purge right, and how academics initially,
Speaker 1: you know, in the West, we're saying that, oh, it
Speaker 1: wasn't that bad, and it is actually even worse than
Speaker 1: anybody had had anticipated. But the entirety of Western world
Speaker 1: academia was essentially trying to cover up or or certainly
Speaker 1: vastly diminish what happened there. You know, we don't learn
Speaker 1: these things enough. But also, what is the what is
Speaker 1: the tipping point right, because people are sitting here. I
Speaker 1: was just saying before, I mean COVID. COVID was the
Speaker 1: closest thing I've ever felt like in this country too.
Speaker 1: We may actually be living in a totalitarian state at
Speaker 1: some point. I didn't think it was underway, right, I
Speaker 1: mean sitting at home ordering, you know, watching Netflix, getting
Speaker 1: uber eats. But the mentality that people had was scary.
Speaker 1: I mean people that are people that are masking up
Speaker 1: their three year old and are willing to scream at
Speaker 1: people if they get within you know, ten feet of
Speaker 1: them because they're so scared of them. Like there was
Speaker 1: something dramatically wrong with tens of millions of people in
Speaker 1: this country. I don't think there was something dramatically wrong.
Speaker 1: I think there remains something dramatically wrong that was activated.
Speaker 1: I don't think those people's psychology changed as a consequence
Speaker 1: of COVID going away. I think COVID gave an excuse
Speaker 1: for people who have neurosis or anxiety or other some
Speaker 1: kind of things that are suboptimal mental conditions to have
Speaker 1: a rationalization that's external and an opportunity to act out
Speaker 1: their aggression and hysteria toward others. And to your point
Speaker 1: about the intellectual Theodore Dreiser, who's probably the greatest naturalist
Speaker 1: writer of all time, Like he was discussing what was
Speaker 1: going the Soviet Union, and he just basically concluded, what
Speaker 1: good would freeing those prisoners do? So this was something
Speaker 1: and we see this still today with many people who
Speaker 1: are pro government to such an extent that they have
Speaker 1: this guinea pit of society. It's like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: try this experiment over there. If it doesn't work out,
Speaker 1: at least we'll have the data. And you know rand
Speaker 1: I rand who opens up the book with her testifying
Speaker 1: in front of Congress. She had this great quote. She
Speaker 1: was on Donahue in nineteen seventy nine, and he goes,
Speaker 1: why you so harsh in these people, Like why can't
Speaker 1: you just say that you disagree? And she goes, because
Speaker 1: they don't hesitate to sacrifice whole nations, like they don't.
Speaker 1: I think this is something Americans like don't really get
Speaker 1: the depth of evil. They don't care if literally millions
Speaker 1: of people die or are tortured or starved, because they
Speaker 1: have this idea of how society should run and there's
Speaker 1: nothing that's going to stop them from feeling important and
Speaker 1: having their world you imposed infinitely innocent people, and by definition,
Speaker 1: in their mindset, if you are opposed to their machinations,
Speaker 1: you are no longer innocent, and therefore whatever happens to you,
Speaker 1: it's your fault. You see that reality, You see flashes
Speaker 1: of it with a lot of the climate change stuff.
Speaker 1: Climate change is a religious belief now, I mean, they
Speaker 1: play all these games. You don't believe in climate change,
Speaker 1: You say, well, climate's been changing forever, of course, the
Speaker 1: climate changing. Climate change is a religious belief. And but
Speaker 1: you see it though, because if you start to say, hey,
Speaker 1: you really, if we've radically decarbonized that the there's still
Speaker 1: about a billion people right give or take that are
Speaker 1: in pretty dire poverty globally. It used to be a lot.
Speaker 1: More good news is that, you know, global poverty is
Speaker 1: in the last fifty to the last seventy five years
Speaker 1: down by leaps and bounds, But there's still about a
Speaker 1: billion people. If you do this stuff, and you were
Speaker 1: to actually enforce these rules about CO two, there would
Speaker 1: be a lot of people without enough food to eat.
Speaker 1: A lot of people would not only die of starvation,
Speaker 1: but just a whole lot more people die of the
Speaker 1: malnutrition and the other components of you know, being able
Speaker 1: to live in a prosperous society. Even if you don't
Speaker 1: die necessarily from lack of food, if you don't have
Speaker 1: enough food, your health is dramatically impacted, etc. Michael, they
Speaker 1: don't they don't blink when you there's like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're trying to save CO two emissions. Man, Like,
Speaker 1: we're trying to save the world here. And I actually
Speaker 1: think those people are I think they're scary. I think
Speaker 1: they don't realize they're frightening, but they're terrifying in a
Speaker 1: way because there's no mind there. There was this I
Speaker 1: forget which African country, but when the lockdowns were happening,
Speaker 1: there was one country. They're like, if we lock down,
Speaker 1: we die. We don't have fridges, we don't have stores
Speaker 1: of food. We're living hand to mouth. We need to
Speaker 1: go farm and get today's food. And basically it was like, well,
Speaker 1: let the meat cake, so you know what you're speaking of. Again,
Speaker 1: I think it's so much more malevolent than people realize.
Speaker 1: And again, the reason why Americans especially don't realize how
Speaker 1: malevolent it is is that there's an entire information superstructure
Speaker 1: designed in place to teach us since kindergarten that people
Speaker 1: are basically good, and that when people in power do
Speaker 1: bad things, maybe there's like some bad, corrupt CEO or
Speaker 1: some mayor who's on the take, and Aaron Brockovich is
Speaker 1: going to come in and put him in his place.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, everyone sure makes mistakes, but
Speaker 1: no one is inherently evil. And if you think that
Speaker 1: they are, you're a deranged conspiracy theorist. And when you
Speaker 1: have this as your basics for evaluating politics and people
Speaker 1: in power and governments and so on and so forth,
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to realize how little those in places
Speaker 1: like this value human life. And if the choice is
Speaker 1: between their position and thousands of people suffering, you know, horrors,
Speaker 1: it's it's almost a joke to them. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: what's the catch, you know what I mean? They don't.
Speaker 1: They don't. If anything, they feel powerful that they can
Speaker 1: wave their hand and have so many people kiss the ring. Well,
Speaker 1: this is I mean again. Another another area that I
Speaker 1: think illustrates this really well is the very obvious positioning
Speaker 1: of really well off to very wealthy white liberals on
Speaker 1: things like police and I know, I know you're not
Speaker 1: a big police guy, but on especially females, Yeah, on
Speaker 1: issues of criminal justice. I mean, you know, if we
Speaker 1: if we do have a population that is not supposed
Speaker 1: to be policing itself, which is what we do. Even
Speaker 1: though we do have some you know, people caring the
Speaker 1: notion that you would condemn people living in high violence,
Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent plus minority neighborhoods to living with
Speaker 1: even more violence so that you know, you can go
Speaker 1: to Nancy Pelosi fundraiser and then hang out with a
Speaker 1: bunch of like producers for Netflix shows and have your
Speaker 1: shard neyglasses and feel good about yourself. They do not care.
Speaker 1: Even when I try to explain this to libs who
Speaker 1: are very you know, who think that they're very attuned
Speaker 1: to things. When I tell them that your BLM marches
Speaker 1: and you're you're giving money these organizations and all this
Speaker 1: stuff makes you feel good, there will be more people
Speaker 1: who are dead because of what that position is. They
Speaker 1: do not care. It does not it doesn't affect them
Speaker 1: one look, the whole Democrat party. It doesn't affect them
Speaker 1: until it comes time for elections. Then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they pretend that they never said these things. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say something about the police that I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: gonna agree with. My problem with the police is things
Speaker 1: like Kenosha, where not only are they refusing to do
Speaker 1: their jobs, which is in and of itself a problem
Speaker 1: when you know massive unrest is happening and these things
Speaker 1: are being torn down, it's that they were punishing people
Speaker 1: who were trying to do their jobs for them. Kyle
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse when he turned himself in, was pepper sprayed by
Speaker 1: the cops, and then they tried to they put him
Speaker 1: a show trial. If they had their druthers, he'd be
Speaker 1: in jail for life, and even if he got off.
Speaker 1: There's no one who's listeners who can tell me that
Speaker 1: being arrested and having the death sense over your head
Speaker 1: isn't a traumatic experience for literally anybody. So that's my
Speaker 1: issue with the police that I'm sure you're going to
Speaker 1: agree with. That's the problem. No, no, again, I don't
Speaker 1: disagree that either. I actually want to take a moment
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Speaker 1: You get a free copy of Michael Lindell's book called
Speaker 1: From Crackhead to Ceo. And it's a lenticular cover and
Speaker 1: it changes from his crackhead face to his like professional,
Speaker 1: smiling ceo face. It's really cool. I have a copy
Speaker 1: of it here. Yeah, oh yeah, it's amazing. Mike is
Speaker 1: Mike is an incredible, an incredible American success story. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you think about I think, you know, you think
Speaker 1: about a crack addiction, which, short of opioiddiction, is probably
Speaker 1: one of the very hardest I think to to be.
Speaker 1: That's because it's so good. They're not using crack because
Speaker 1: they don't like it. I mean, look the opioid receptors
Speaker 1: in the brain. Anybody, there's apparently nothing and this is
Speaker 1: why it's so dangerous, right, there's nothing that feels. And he,
Speaker 1: Mike has been way too I'm talking about Mike Malice,
Speaker 1: by the way, for anybody. Mike Malice has been way
Speaker 1: too well behaved this whole interview. By the way he's been,
Speaker 1: He's had his thinking cap on talking. He hasn't said
Speaker 1: anything yet to just intentionally try to get me in trouble,
Speaker 1: which is one of his favorite games. Because then I
Speaker 1: go because if I don't say that, he says something
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, I keep going, and then I
Speaker 1: get my people who are like, wow, how could you
Speaker 1: let him say that? I'm like, Malice, Fuck, if you
Speaker 1: started smoking crack your dad could become president. Well everything
Speaker 1: about that, hmm. I did not think about that until now.
Speaker 1: That's such an interesting point. Also, Hunter Biden, by the way,
Speaker 1: you'd think, like kind of a spoiled connected kid, crack
Speaker 1: is not usually the option, you know. Yeah, it's such
Speaker 1: a low class, gutter drug and the guy has money
Speaker 1: and he's trashy, but not in the crack of trashy way.
Speaker 1: You would think he'd be a junkie, maybe a cokehead.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's I don't know what's going on in
Speaker 1: that household, but it's very rare, rare that these children
Speaker 1: of privilege are become crackheads. Do you, um, Hunter Biden,
Speaker 1: do you think he's gonna get you know, that's what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Do you think he's gonna get prosecuted? No?
Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever consequences for a Democratic Party people.
Speaker 1: It's all the consequences almost never really one direction. And
Speaker 1: I have an on air bet over this. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he already always be one steak dinner,
Speaker 1: and he has doubled down because he said last year
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's gonna get indicted, I said, Clay that's crazy,
Speaker 1: and we bet a steak on airs. This is all
Speaker 1: very public. Everyone knows I won. Now he wants to
Speaker 1: do a double and I'm like, how many of you?
Speaker 1: How many steaks? I mean, fortunately Clay's got plenty of money,
Speaker 1: but I was like, how many stakes of yours? Am
Speaker 1: I going to take? The one who got put away?
Speaker 1: Two of them? Rob Lagoievich, Rob Lgoevich and Kwamie Kilpatrick.
Speaker 1: I think Kilpatrick was the last name. Roth got went
Speaker 1: to jail and Trump commuted our pardon both of them.
Speaker 1: So not only is he are do the Democrats never
Speaker 1: go to jail? When the Democrats do go to jail,
Speaker 1: the Republicans let them out. You know, you just remind me, actually,
Speaker 1: since I want to, since I want to just start
Speaker 1: getting angry people angry at me and get in trouble. Here,
Speaker 1: what happens in the Republican election, What happens in the primary,
Speaker 1: what happens in the general twenty twenty four? Given where
Speaker 1: things are right now, what do you see happening? Oh?
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be. I'm shocked at to
Speaker 1: what extent Trump is going full bore against the Santis
Speaker 1: this early. I think he only knows how to do offense,
Speaker 1: which is not a bad thing. I'm very much for
Speaker 1: doing offense. I think he is in a lot of
Speaker 1: trouble because it is now there's an excuse for me
Speaker 1: if I'm Facebook, if I'm CNN Fox to be like
Speaker 1: the guy foment an insurrection. I can't give him airtime.
Speaker 1: So this is the first time I think in like
Speaker 1: recent history where there is some kind of corporate explanation
Speaker 1: for not taking a candidate's money, and that is something
Speaker 1: that's a real big handicap. He used Twitter to get
Speaker 1: elected president. For him to leave that money on the
Speaker 1: table to me, I'm not his advisor, obviously seems crazy.
Speaker 1: And I'm also I think that I think people underestimate
Speaker 1: that the biggest issue Trump is facing, in my opinion
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four is the Republican Party establishment, because
Speaker 1: and here's the other thing. If he became president, Mitch
Speaker 1: McConnell would team up with the Democrats in two seconds
Speaker 1: to get him removed from office, and they'd have those
Speaker 1: sixty seven votes quite easily. In my opinion. Wow, interesting,
Speaker 1: ah man, I'm ever even honestly never mind. Twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two makes it feel like any prediction can be.
Speaker 1: It's just a seed that Mitch McConnell cares far more
Speaker 1: about his relationship with Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden than
Speaker 1: he does about the people of Kentucky. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: now that's that's very true. So you think, but you
Speaker 1: think Trump probably wins a primary against the Santis, No,
Speaker 1: I think. I think they're going to do whatever they
Speaker 1: can to screw him out of the situation, including, if necessary,
Speaker 1: excluding him from the debates. It's not going to be
Speaker 1: like twenty sixteen. And I also think they've been successful
Speaker 1: in making him radioactive enough that it's gonna be very
Speaker 1: hard for him to hire quality people. Because think about it,
Speaker 1: If I've got a good resume, right, why am I
Speaker 1: ruining my life for the sake of this guy who
Speaker 1: wants the campaign's over? If I quit, He's going to
Speaker 1: go on True Central and talk about what an idiot
Speaker 1: I am. So it's gonna be very hard for him
Speaker 1: to get and staffing. I think even his biggest supporters
Speaker 1: admit was a huge issue for him throughout his White House.
Speaker 1: He's the one hiring Fauci and John Bolton and Jared
Speaker 1: Kushner and every other you know rents previous. None of
Speaker 1: these are are particularly maga type people to put up mildly.
Speaker 1: So I think this is going to be a major
Speaker 1: issue him going forward. What's the so you finished the book?
Speaker 1: Back to the White Pill here, and it's this way
Speaker 1: we can bring our discussion to close this time until
Speaker 1: you invite me on the Michael Mallas Show, which has
Speaker 1: not happened. I don't think it's happened since COVID. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna call you out right now. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've been on well. I try to have likable guests. Wow.
Speaker 1: See that's what he does. I'm just gonna tweet that
Speaker 1: clip out soyod be like, see people will actually see it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll retweet it. So the white Pill you say at
Speaker 1: the end is effectively that while um, it is not
Speaker 1: guaranteed effactly that we have to lose to tyranny, Um,
Speaker 1: we can fight, right, we can keep fighting. So what
Speaker 1: does that look like for us here? There's a lot
Speaker 1: of people in the West and in America who thinks
Speaker 1: America is a rap, that it's doomed, so on and
Speaker 1: so forth. I can't one of my biggest points is
Speaker 1: how do you look at Mitch McConnell and Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden and John Fetterman and say to yourself,
Speaker 1: I can beat these people. They're too important and smart
Speaker 1: and powerful. When you put in those terms, you realize
Speaker 1: what an absurdity it is. And something that you and
Speaker 1: I completely in lockstep agreement are is that if there's
Speaker 1: any glimmer of hope for a better future for ourselves
Speaker 1: and our families, we have to do whatever we can
Speaker 1: to fight for that future, even if you know we lose.
Speaker 1: At least when you meet your maker, you could be
Speaker 1: like I did the best I could with what I had.
Speaker 1: And there are so many forces, especially in the Republican Party,
Speaker 1: who want you to settle, who want you to compromise,
Speaker 1: who are like guys, grow up, be rational, be realistic.
Speaker 1: None of this is going anywhere. You have to work
Speaker 1: within the system, and this is just always how it's been.
Speaker 1: Those people are the most dangerous ones because they're the
Speaker 1: ones trying to get you to get down on your
Speaker 1: knees voluntarily instead of being forced to. The White Piale
Speaker 1: is the book The Tale of Good and Evil. Michael
Speaker 1: Malice tells a good tale. Good to be with you, sir,
Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging. Oh, it's a pleasure. Buck